February 19, 2025 • 18 mins
As Christian is about to enter a new phase of his life as an empty nester, he sits down with his good friend Amanda Keller to talk about life as a parent and her new show The Role Of A Lifetime.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Got anything good.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hey, this is the Christian O'Connell show podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hey this is Christian. This is a podcast special. It's
our long form unedited chat with the one and only
Amanda Kenna. I adore Amanda. I think she's brilliant. I've
been a fan for years. Earlier in my radio career,
I had a crazy Australian boss and he used to
give me tapes of an old breakfast show used to
do with a brilliant man called Andrew Denton. So when
(00:30):
I moved here seven years ago, it's a great joy
to get to no Amanda. And if you've ever heard
my podcast that I did two seasons off the Stuff
of Legends, Amanda's episode is the one that gets the
most reaction. So it's a deep joy to share this
with you. This is the unentered version of my chat
with Amanda Keller, and we're talking about being parents. She's
involved in this brilliant new TV show called The Role
(00:52):
of a Lifetime, which you can enjoy every Tuesday night
on ABC and you can watch it whenever you want
on iView as well. It's called the Role of a Lifetime.
And as you listen to this, you've got any questions
about being parents or anything, send me an email. I
love talking about this stuff. It's a deep joy of
mine being a dad, and it's a lot to try
and work out how to do it the best you
(01:13):
can for your kids. So if you've got any questions,
email me Christian at christiano'connell dot com. Do AU. But
right now, let's go to the great, the one and
only Amanda Keller on the show right now. One of
my favorite people to talk to. I love her. I
think she's brilliant. The last time we spoke, she made
me cry. It was about Perrington. I think there'll be
(01:33):
tears again. But welcome back to the show, Amanda Keller.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Christian O'Connell. I've got my waterproof Misscara, and I'm ready
to go.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Great because the last time we spoke on the subject
of kids, I was getting ready to drop off my
eldest daughter at university. So get a load of this
this Sunday, a couple of days time youngest daughter two
years on will be dropped off at university. Then my
wife and I will have no kids up home. So
for a conversation about role of a lifetime can You
(02:03):
show on ABC, which started this week. Yeah, I'm my
wife and I at that big moment where it's of
course it's exciting. But you know when we drive away Sunday,
round about just after lunchtime, I know that we'll be
pulling up around the corner going bo, what's gone so quick?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Walking back into the house, that will be hard. Let
me ask you this, how long unto you're getting a
new dog?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Six months? I think towards the.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
End of the day, I reckon make it six hours?
What I reckon get a dog because it doesn't matter
what you're feeling. This is something that everyone can love.
There's noise in the house, there's I am.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Fair in the silence, no genuinely no fear in the silence.
I remember, even for a year after the Ruby, our
first daughter to leave home, I kept getting out four
plates because there's always been four plates, and my youngest
daughter going, there's this three now dad, and so now
just to go back twenty years later, just two plates.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
You'll be eating with your hands. You won't even bother
with plate.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
What I found, though, with my sons who both left
home to study, is the dread of it was harder.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah than the reality.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I'd felt it.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
For years leading up, and actually when it happened, I'd
felt like I'd done so much grieving that the fact
I survived it was almost quite liberating.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, I know what you mean. I think I've been
grieving for two years, right, because my wife and I,
even like a year ago, are like, why are you
getting upset now? It's not for another year, And I
couldn't work like that, and so I actually think it's
like letting out the pressure from a balloon, and so
I think I've let some of mine out already. I
think my wife's going to have the big explosion on Sunday.
Because of my hours and doing breakfast radio for twenty
(03:44):
seven years, I've never been there in the morning. So
my wife runs the house and has to do that
really tough part of the day, which is getting kids
ready for school. So suddenly removing that really from Sunday
is going to be I think she's going to really
feel it in the morning.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
That's hard, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
My son was the other day and he wanted to
stay the night, which he doesn't normally, but he's going
to a party down the road and he said, can
I stay here? For the night, and I said, this
is your home. You don't have to ask permission to
stay here. Having said that, he then went and stole
about ten cans of tuna and made his way through
the fridge and did all that, lift clothes everywhere. But
even I was thrilled to see it.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Now, tell me this when so my kids, I'll always
call them kids. But they're eighteen and twenty year old
daughters now, and obviously you're Jack and Liam there what
are they midt? Early twenties now older your boys?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well, this year Liam will be twenty four and Jack
will be twenty two.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, so we are, we're a different part of it.
It never stops. If anything, he gets a bit more complicated.
I think as they get older. But when you look
about we look back at your time as a parent,
especially in the teenagers, because I think there's two phases
to it. There's the up in two teens when it's
more just exhausting and I think a lot of admin
and are you dropping off? Then I've got to go
(04:54):
over then. And then when they become teenagers, it gets
into a ward of emotions and it's a completely different
kind of parent that you need to be. Yeah, what
do you think when you look back at your style
of parents and what have you learned, What were your
big sort of learnings, and what were your big mistakes
as well?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Because this show is all about parenting and a lot
of parents are comparing themselves to other people on the
internet and seeing you know parents who are going who
are far more intentional. I don't remember being intentional. I
feel that these children of mine were almost like our
border collie. They kind of trained themselves. And that can't
be true because they've been shaped into very nice human
(05:34):
beings who are responsible and sensible and funny and all of.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
That and loving.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
But I don't remember setting out to be a certain
kind of parent. But the hard thing about parenting tweens
and teens now is that you have to parent in
two dimensions, in the real world and also in the
digital world. And my kids were kind of just at
the beginning of that, but children by and larger now
fully in the drop zone. And if you went out
(05:59):
for the day in our day, your parents knew what
kind of people you were hanging around with. Generically, they
kind of knew where you were and what you were doing. Now,
all of that is hidden on a screen and you
have no idea of the kind of influences that are
coming to hear.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And it's really hard to deal with that, right because
I had really hard Both my daughters over the years
were you know, bullied online and on their phones, and
we didn't really have any idea. It's only now they're
sort of ready telling us about it. And actually they
both sort of said, well, this is just the way
it is. You know, at least when we were kids,
if you had a bad day at school, when you
went home, that was just save space. You closed the
(06:34):
front door and at least you have that night. You
didn't know if your friends were doing something without you
or if you being excluded, and you had a night
just to regroup, and then you go back to school
on a brand new day. But now actually it's twenty
four to seven and hard to deal with that.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
How can kids be robust enough to know that all
their friends are together and you're not. It would drive
me even now, I don't want to know any of that.
It would have driven me crazy as a teen. And
we didn't get our smartphones, our age group until we're
in our thirties or our forties. When they are invented,
but for kids who are now getting them younger and younger.
And that's one of the big things the show looks
at is what age is age appropriate for a child
(07:12):
to get a smartphone? And how can you help them
navigate what they see? I thought, Maggie Dan, who's a
parenting gurup, she's goad advised, she's so good, and she said,
make sure if your child comes to you because they've
seen something dreadful, something that's really upset them on their phone,
don't threaten to take their phone away.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Sit down with them, love them, discuss it.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Because if you're going to say I'm taking your phone away,
they will not come to you. So through all of this,
she also said the basic tenets of what a child
needs love, support, a loving home, open arms. She said
that is still exactly the same as it's always been.
The world is different, but those basics are still there.
So as parents we need to educate ourselves. As I said,
(07:55):
I was fully non intentional, whereas now I don't think
you can afford to be, but don't despair. The basics
are still the basics.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, that's so true. I found that to be true.
The more that you always try to make sure that
you were leading with connection before going to sort of
correction or direction, because I still my wife, and I
still get this wrong. Like a twenty year old will
call and you get into that admin. Have you done this?
I thought you needed to do that, And you can
tell they're just going to stop calling you because it's
(08:26):
an end of stream. If you haven't done this, Why
didn't you do that? I thought we told you to
do that, And you just disempower them. And it's really
hard sometimes a parent to actually realize you don't have,
especially when it come teenagers. Your influence and control is
dwindling really really quickly, and so the biggest thing you
can have is connection with them.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
I remember too that my mother and we didn't have
mobile phones. But you know, if I was going to
cop a lecture or just a nag, why would I
talk to them? Why would I phone them for that?
And I saw I was doing that with my younger son,
who was stuffing up his university admin and when he
first moved out, so well, those things are so hard,
and I kept thinking that surely by now I'll take
(09:04):
my foot off the accelerator with him, and I just
kept going and going, and every conversation was have you
done this?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Have you done that?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
And once I stopped that, he now calls me every
day and even if I want to say have you
done such and such, I bite down on it and
I might text him later and say just a quick reminder,
but I don't make it part of our conversation.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
And that's so much better way of doing it. Otherwise
it's just disempowering. The thing, my god, what I'm going
to get is a stream of you haven't you should?
You know? And so they feel less and less like
that they can have just a decent connection with you.
And one thing I would say to parents who've got
teenagers is, you know, I always try to. Even when
we were getting into areas of conflict, I would always
(09:42):
try to, and I'm emphasizing try to, because many times
I didn't, But I always would try and steer myself
back to speaking to them as I'd want to be
spoken to. And I thought that way, I'm going to
hopefully create some climate of I don't know, in power
them to try and figure out their own answers rather
than rather than me trying to tell them what I
(10:04):
think they should do. Was trying to help them figure
out their own answers and support that. Yeah, but that
was the holy grail. I got it roll more than wrong.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
That is the holy grail.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And often parents are fully stressed, parents are burnt out,
parents are tired, parents are on their phone completely naked.
I saw some footage of parents who decided that they
didn't want their kids to see them on the phone
all the time, but they wanted to be on the phone.
The adults did and had work to do, so they
put it inside it children's books. Every time the kids
looked up, they thought their parents were reading. And that's
(10:36):
the image they'll have of their childhood, how well read
their parents were.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
It's all fakery, And so what do you think are
the lessons that really stayed with you? So pe people
will listen to this right now, and it is a
privilege to be a parent, right it is. It'll always
be the biggest thing in my life, will be as
my journey as a dad. But I think, what do
you think is the biggest thing that it means to you?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I feel my life began when my children were born,
and I find it really hard that when I left home,
I didn't look over my shoulder that I left time
to study and that was it. That's when I feel
my life began when I left home. And the fact
that my kids are now at that stage, I think,
how can all the richness of the time we've had
together not be the important thing for them? So I
(11:23):
try to remember for me how it felt to find
my freedoms and to not be that needy parent. I
don't want to be needy, and I find that really
hard not to be needy, because really I just delight
in my children. I went overseas with them as adults
over Christmas, and just to hang out with them as
(11:45):
adults was.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Just such as you were the best.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
The conversations out that we took our twenty year old
and her boyfriend with us overseas over Christmas, and this
is like a whole new area now for us, right,
and it was brilliant. It was just a different conversation.
You meet up a happy hour, you have a couple
of drinks, you play cards, you talk about life, and
they laugh for all these kind of like rigid opinions
(12:09):
you have about it all, and they roast you and
you laugh at yourself. And I was like having one
those moments you get the sometimes when you're in the experience,
but you're also above it and you think it this
doesn't get any better right now, there's nothing I need
or want in the world.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I had a wonderful moment. We're in Tokyo and we
went to karaoke bar and actually I told Robbie Williams
about this. We're in a tiny karaoke bar with the
only Wessners there. It was this tiny place and we
sang angels and we were all holding each other, my
two sons and I and my eldest son Lindover and
said I love you, mum. And I thought, you know,
those bubbles of bliss, that's all you're entitled to. Really, Yeah,
(12:43):
that's what happiness is. Are those moments that pass you
by and you need to acknowledge them when you see them.
And I thought, this is that moment, because it can't
be wall to all that, and it won't be the
natures of my sons, mean, it won't be that. But
that's not what happiness is. That's not the human condition.
These bubbles that float by, and I was luck. I felt,
I'm so lucky to be consciously enjoying the bubble as
(13:03):
it passes through me. It was just wonderful.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Oh, that's beauty, beautiful, and you know what, you know,
I know we're saying like it's tricky. It is and
all of that's true. Right, It is overwhelming being a parent.
At times, it's just enough to get through the day,
and then you're trying to sort of figure out areas
that we don't fully understand. And often my wife and
I would meet in private by the washing machine and go,
what do we actually think about? What do we actually
think about that. I don't have a ready made opinion.
(13:27):
I haven't got time to listen to all the podcasts,
read all the flipping books, watch all the ted talks.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And it's intimidating.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
All that's feel like you've been told off being a
crappy parent. I think the most important thing is actually
to remember the number one thing is the job is
about enjoying them, and then when you approach it from that,
even when there are moments of conflict where you've got
to sit down with them and have awkward conversations, like,
the job is to enjoy this. It's a ride. My
daughter told me that she goes, she goes. Oh, by
(13:53):
the way, I just read on TikTok the other day
that ninety five percent of my time with you is over,
and I was like.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
It's the doomsday class.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
She was like, oh, look you're starting to cry. Went yeah, yeah,
ninety five percent done. What. I couldn't go to sleep
that night. My wife went, and there's something on your
mind And I told her. She went, I can't go
to sleep right now. Five percent the time is done?
Oh my, And it is.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It is, and you have to let it go. Graciously.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
We oa of that, im I know, I know, But
we are the generation that wants to stay connected. Our
parents let us go, whether they wanted it or not.
Because they I moved the other.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Side of the work. If I moved the other side
of the world, I left home twice. They must have
really hate that second trip to Australia. It wasn't enough
just to move three hours away. You now want to
move a hemisphere as well away. But yeah, I think
it's it's important to mind with all the information about
what it's a mind field at times. Actually the job
is to enjoy, enjoy raising these these people. You know,
(14:57):
you're launching rockets really that leave you and they were
never really yours. You know, and it goes. At the time,
it feels galatial the progress. You're like, oh my god,
I can't believe it's going so slowly today, And then
suddenly you look back and it's gone really quickly, you know.
And your kids are the ages there are. I've got
daughters now are eighteen and twenty. But I still love
deeply the journey of being a parent and trying to
(15:18):
figure out how best to support them.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I was just talking to some girlfriends the other day
who was saying, who are now sort of moving into
grandparent region, and it makes us all feel that we
weren't intentional enough or present enough when they were little,
but we're just busy raising them and keeping them alive.
Grandparents can treasure every single moment as a parent. That's
a luxury, but it doesn't mean you weren't a great parent.
(15:43):
None of us were awake enough to treasure every moment,
but those moments that you had, you know, all you do.
You need to do, as you say, is a rocket.
Set up a rocket that's leaving from a loving base.
Love your children, praise their achievements, and you're three quarters
of the way there.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah. Even when I was having awkward conversations with the kids, which,
to be honest, if you ask my wife, she'd go,
has been pretty rare because I always love the word yes.
Is that I would always make sure that the new
they felt safe and loved, even if I was saying no,
or I was given them the news they didn't want
to hear. I didn't want them thinking I was withholding
love in any way. I'd always go no, and I
(16:20):
love you, And so I always wanted them to know
underneath all of that there was just a place of
unconditional love. Even though in the rare circumstances I ever
was going no, I don't want you doing that, and
normally let my wife have those more awkward conversations. I
always wanted them to know that they was always held
in love, no matter what they've done and what choices
they'd made.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah, and we had a toy shop up the road
and I'd go in there once a week to buy
lego and she'd say, had a busy, weaker manner. I'd say, yep,
give me that one on the top shelf.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
We can't love them enough, bribe them enough, And.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Do you think you and I would have done anything
differently if we watched a TV show like this, Role
of a Lifetime. I think this is a show with
the show is a great idea. There's a lack of
information and making it in easy, bite sized chunks. It's
just what mumms and dads need right now.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
But I think that the age our kids are, particularly mine,
they didn't grow up with an iPhone in their hand,
so my ignorance isn't as pronounced as it is for
parents today. They really need to be across this stuff,
and particularly you know, I've got two boys, the stuff
of toxic masculinity or the imagery or the Andrew Tait
(17:28):
stuff or the Jim Junkie kind of stuff. Young boys
are open to some really strange and dangerous influences, which
also affects young ladies because of the way men are
reading this stuff. So be aware of what your boys
and your girls are reading online about what it is
to be a man, what is to be a lady
or a woman.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
This stuff's hard.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, Amanda, great work on the show is much needed.
You know, it really is. It's mums and Danstay's need
information that's easy to die, to digest, to be honest,
because there's just not enough hours in the day to
just get through the day, let alone trying to read
up on how to become a parent when it's all
happening right in front of you, and it's the endless
stream of we haven't done this, what's for dinner? You know?
(18:12):
My school Jim kitt hasn't been washed. It's a lot.
So the show I think is a great service to
mums and dads right now, much needed as well, so
well done. It's on ABC on Tuesday nights. Roll of
a lifetime, Amanda. It's always a deep joy to chat.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
To you, and good luck on Sunday. I'll wait for
the waters to rise with your Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah. If you hear news the flooding in Melbourne, you know,
it's my wife and I and then I'll have that dog.
I probably lunch someone on the Monday now I think
about it all right, Amanda, Loss of Love, Love Chat,
You take it, Bye, go bye.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
The Christian O'Connell Show Podcast
Got anything good.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hey, this is the Christian O'Connell show podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hey this is Christian. This is a podcast special. It's
our long form unedited chat with the one and only
Amanda Kenna. I adore Amanda. I think she's brilliant. I've
been a fan for years. Earlier in my radio career,
I had a crazy Australian boss and he used to
give me tapes of an old breakfast show used to
do with a brilliant man called Andrew Denton. So when
(00:30):
I moved here seven years ago, it's a great joy
to get to no Amanda. And if you've ever heard
my podcast that I did two seasons off the Stuff
of Legends, Amanda's episode is the one that gets the
most reaction. So it's a deep joy to share this
with you. This is the unentered version of my chat
with Amanda Keller, and we're talking about being parents. She's
involved in this brilliant new TV show called The Role
(00:52):
of a Lifetime, which you can enjoy every Tuesday night
on ABC and you can watch it whenever you want
on iView as well. It's called the Role of a Lifetime.
And as you listen to this, you've got any questions
about being parents or anything, send me an email. I
love talking about this stuff. It's a deep joy of
mine being a dad, and it's a lot to try
and work out how to do it the best you
(01:13):
can for your kids. So if you've got any questions,
email me Christian at christiano'connell dot com. Do AU. But
right now, let's go to the great, the one and
only Amanda Keller on the show right now. One of
my favorite people to talk to. I love her. I
think she's brilliant. The last time we spoke, she made
me cry. It was about Perrington. I think there'll be
(01:33):
tears again. But welcome back to the show, Amanda Keller.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Christian O'Connell. I've got my waterproof Misscara, and I'm ready
to go.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Great because the last time we spoke on the subject
of kids, I was getting ready to drop off my
eldest daughter at university. So get a load of this
this Sunday, a couple of days time youngest daughter two
years on will be dropped off at university. Then my
wife and I will have no kids up home. So
for a conversation about role of a lifetime can You
(02:03):
show on ABC, which started this week. Yeah, I'm my
wife and I at that big moment where it's of
course it's exciting. But you know when we drive away Sunday,
round about just after lunchtime, I know that we'll be
pulling up around the corner going bo, what's gone so quick?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Walking back into the house, that will be hard. Let
me ask you this, how long unto you're getting a
new dog?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Six months? I think towards the.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
End of the day, I reckon make it six hours?
What I reckon get a dog because it doesn't matter
what you're feeling. This is something that everyone can love.
There's noise in the house, there's I am.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Fair in the silence, no genuinely no fear in the silence.
I remember, even for a year after the Ruby, our
first daughter to leave home, I kept getting out four
plates because there's always been four plates, and my youngest
daughter going, there's this three now dad, and so now
just to go back twenty years later, just two plates.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
You'll be eating with your hands. You won't even bother
with plate.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
What I found, though, with my sons who both left
home to study, is the dread of it was harder.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah than the reality.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I'd felt it.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
For years leading up, and actually when it happened, I'd
felt like I'd done so much grieving that the fact
I survived it was almost quite liberating.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, I know what you mean. I think I've been
grieving for two years, right, because my wife and I,
even like a year ago, are like, why are you
getting upset now? It's not for another year, And I
couldn't work like that, and so I actually think it's
like letting out the pressure from a balloon, and so
I think I've let some of mine out already. I
think my wife's going to have the big explosion on Sunday.
Because of my hours and doing breakfast radio for twenty
(03:44):
seven years, I've never been there in the morning. So
my wife runs the house and has to do that
really tough part of the day, which is getting kids
ready for school. So suddenly removing that really from Sunday
is going to be I think she's going to really
feel it in the morning.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
That's hard, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
My son was the other day and he wanted to
stay the night, which he doesn't normally, but he's going
to a party down the road and he said, can
I stay here? For the night, and I said, this
is your home. You don't have to ask permission to
stay here. Having said that, he then went and stole
about ten cans of tuna and made his way through
the fridge and did all that, lift clothes everywhere. But
even I was thrilled to see it.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Now, tell me this when so my kids, I'll always
call them kids. But they're eighteen and twenty year old
daughters now, and obviously you're Jack and Liam there what
are they midt? Early twenties now older your boys?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well, this year Liam will be twenty four and Jack
will be twenty two.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, so we are, we're a different part of it.
It never stops. If anything, he gets a bit more complicated.
I think as they get older. But when you look
about we look back at your time as a parent,
especially in the teenagers, because I think there's two phases
to it. There's the up in two teens when it's
more just exhausting and I think a lot of admin
and are you dropping off? Then I've got to go
(04:54):
over then. And then when they become teenagers, it gets
into a ward of emotions and it's a completely different
kind of parent that you need to be. Yeah, what
do you think when you look back at your style
of parents and what have you learned, What were your
big sort of learnings, and what were your big mistakes
as well?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Because this show is all about parenting and a lot
of parents are comparing themselves to other people on the
internet and seeing you know parents who are going who
are far more intentional. I don't remember being intentional. I
feel that these children of mine were almost like our
border collie. They kind of trained themselves. And that can't
be true because they've been shaped into very nice human
(05:34):
beings who are responsible and sensible and funny and all of.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
That and loving.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
But I don't remember setting out to be a certain
kind of parent. But the hard thing about parenting tweens
and teens now is that you have to parent in
two dimensions, in the real world and also in the
digital world. And my kids were kind of just at
the beginning of that, but children by and larger now
fully in the drop zone. And if you went out
(05:59):
for the day in our day, your parents knew what
kind of people you were hanging around with. Generically, they
kind of knew where you were and what you were doing. Now,
all of that is hidden on a screen and you
have no idea of the kind of influences that are
coming to hear.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And it's really hard to deal with that, right because
I had really hard Both my daughters over the years
were you know, bullied online and on their phones, and
we didn't really have any idea. It's only now they're
sort of ready telling us about it. And actually they
both sort of said, well, this is just the way
it is. You know, at least when we were kids,
if you had a bad day at school, when you
went home, that was just save space. You closed the
(06:34):
front door and at least you have that night. You
didn't know if your friends were doing something without you
or if you being excluded, and you had a night
just to regroup, and then you go back to school
on a brand new day. But now actually it's twenty
four to seven and hard to deal with that.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
How can kids be robust enough to know that all
their friends are together and you're not. It would drive
me even now, I don't want to know any of that.
It would have driven me crazy as a teen. And
we didn't get our smartphones, our age group until we're
in our thirties or our forties. When they are invented,
but for kids who are now getting them younger and younger.
And that's one of the big things the show looks
at is what age is age appropriate for a child
(07:12):
to get a smartphone? And how can you help them
navigate what they see? I thought, Maggie Dan, who's a
parenting gurup, she's goad advised, she's so good, and she said,
make sure if your child comes to you because they've
seen something dreadful, something that's really upset them on their phone,
don't threaten to take their phone away.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Sit down with them, love them, discuss it.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Because if you're going to say I'm taking your phone away,
they will not come to you. So through all of this,
she also said the basic tenets of what a child
needs love, support, a loving home, open arms. She said
that is still exactly the same as it's always been.
The world is different, but those basics are still there.
So as parents we need to educate ourselves. As I said,
(07:55):
I was fully non intentional, whereas now I don't think
you can afford to be, but don't despair. The basics
are still the basics.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, that's so true. I found that to be true.
The more that you always try to make sure that
you were leading with connection before going to sort of
correction or direction, because I still my wife, and I
still get this wrong. Like a twenty year old will
call and you get into that admin. Have you done this?
I thought you needed to do that, And you can
tell they're just going to stop calling you because it's
(08:26):
an end of stream. If you haven't done this, Why
didn't you do that? I thought we told you to
do that, And you just disempower them. And it's really
hard sometimes a parent to actually realize you don't have,
especially when it come teenagers. Your influence and control is
dwindling really really quickly, and so the biggest thing you
can have is connection with them.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
I remember too that my mother and we didn't have
mobile phones. But you know, if I was going to
cop a lecture or just a nag, why would I
talk to them? Why would I phone them for that?
And I saw I was doing that with my younger son,
who was stuffing up his university admin and when he
first moved out, so well, those things are so hard,
and I kept thinking that surely by now I'll take
(09:04):
my foot off the accelerator with him, and I just
kept going and going, and every conversation was have you
done this?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Have you done that?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
And once I stopped that, he now calls me every
day and even if I want to say have you
done such and such, I bite down on it and
I might text him later and say just a quick reminder,
but I don't make it part of our conversation.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
And that's so much better way of doing it. Otherwise
it's just disempowering. The thing, my god, what I'm going
to get is a stream of you haven't you should?
You know? And so they feel less and less like
that they can have just a decent connection with you.
And one thing I would say to parents who've got
teenagers is, you know, I always try to. Even when
we were getting into areas of conflict, I would always
(09:42):
try to, and I'm emphasizing try to, because many times
I didn't, But I always would try and steer myself
back to speaking to them as I'd want to be
spoken to. And I thought that way, I'm going to
hopefully create some climate of I don't know, in power
them to try and figure out their own answers rather
than rather than me trying to tell them what I
(10:04):
think they should do. Was trying to help them figure
out their own answers and support that. Yeah, but that
was the holy grail. I got it roll more than wrong.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
That is the holy grail.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And often parents are fully stressed, parents are burnt out,
parents are tired, parents are on their phone completely naked.
I saw some footage of parents who decided that they
didn't want their kids to see them on the phone
all the time, but they wanted to be on the phone.
The adults did and had work to do, so they
put it inside it children's books. Every time the kids
looked up, they thought their parents were reading. And that's
(10:36):
the image they'll have of their childhood, how well read
their parents were.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
It's all fakery, And so what do you think are
the lessons that really stayed with you? So pe people
will listen to this right now, and it is a
privilege to be a parent, right it is. It'll always
be the biggest thing in my life, will be as
my journey as a dad. But I think, what do
you think is the biggest thing that it means to you?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I feel my life began when my children were born,
and I find it really hard that when I left home,
I didn't look over my shoulder that I left time
to study and that was it. That's when I feel
my life began when I left home. And the fact
that my kids are now at that stage, I think,
how can all the richness of the time we've had
together not be the important thing for them? So I
(11:23):
try to remember for me how it felt to find
my freedoms and to not be that needy parent. I
don't want to be needy, and I find that really
hard not to be needy, because really I just delight
in my children. I went overseas with them as adults
over Christmas, and just to hang out with them as
(11:45):
adults was.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Just such as you were the best.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
The conversations out that we took our twenty year old
and her boyfriend with us overseas over Christmas, and this
is like a whole new area now for us, right,
and it was brilliant. It was just a different conversation.
You meet up a happy hour, you have a couple
of drinks, you play cards, you talk about life, and
they laugh for all these kind of like rigid opinions
(12:09):
you have about it all, and they roast you and
you laugh at yourself. And I was like having one
those moments you get the sometimes when you're in the experience,
but you're also above it and you think it this
doesn't get any better right now, there's nothing I need
or want in the world.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I had a wonderful moment. We're in Tokyo and we
went to karaoke bar and actually I told Robbie Williams
about this. We're in a tiny karaoke bar with the
only Wessners there. It was this tiny place and we
sang angels and we were all holding each other, my
two sons and I and my eldest son Lindover and
said I love you, mum. And I thought, you know,
those bubbles of bliss, that's all you're entitled to. Really, Yeah,
(12:43):
that's what happiness is. Are those moments that pass you
by and you need to acknowledge them when you see them.
And I thought, this is that moment, because it can't
be wall to all that, and it won't be the
natures of my sons, mean, it won't be that. But
that's not what happiness is. That's not the human condition.
These bubbles that float by, and I was luck. I felt,
I'm so lucky to be consciously enjoying the bubble as
(13:03):
it passes through me. It was just wonderful.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Oh, that's beauty, beautiful, and you know what, you know,
I know we're saying like it's tricky. It is and
all of that's true. Right, It is overwhelming being a parent.
At times, it's just enough to get through the day,
and then you're trying to sort of figure out areas
that we don't fully understand. And often my wife and
I would meet in private by the washing machine and go,
what do we actually think about? What do we actually
think about that. I don't have a ready made opinion.
(13:27):
I haven't got time to listen to all the podcasts,
read all the flipping books, watch all the ted talks.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And it's intimidating.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
All that's feel like you've been told off being a
crappy parent. I think the most important thing is actually
to remember the number one thing is the job is
about enjoying them, and then when you approach it from that,
even when there are moments of conflict where you've got
to sit down with them and have awkward conversations, like,
the job is to enjoy this. It's a ride. My
daughter told me that she goes, she goes. Oh, by
(13:53):
the way, I just read on TikTok the other day
that ninety five percent of my time with you is over,
and I was like.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
It's the doomsday class.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
She was like, oh, look you're starting to cry. Went yeah, yeah,
ninety five percent done. What. I couldn't go to sleep
that night. My wife went, and there's something on your
mind And I told her. She went, I can't go
to sleep right now. Five percent the time is done?
Oh my, And it is.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It is, and you have to let it go. Graciously.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
We oa of that, im I know, I know, But
we are the generation that wants to stay connected. Our
parents let us go, whether they wanted it or not.
Because they I moved the other.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Side of the work. If I moved the other side
of the world, I left home twice. They must have
really hate that second trip to Australia. It wasn't enough
just to move three hours away. You now want to
move a hemisphere as well away. But yeah, I think
it's it's important to mind with all the information about
what it's a mind field at times. Actually the job
is to enjoy, enjoy raising these these people. You know,
(14:57):
you're launching rockets really that leave you and they were
never really yours. You know, and it goes. At the time,
it feels galatial the progress. You're like, oh my god,
I can't believe it's going so slowly today, And then
suddenly you look back and it's gone really quickly, you know.
And your kids are the ages there are. I've got
daughters now are eighteen and twenty. But I still love
deeply the journey of being a parent and trying to
(15:18):
figure out how best to support them.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I was just talking to some girlfriends the other day
who was saying, who are now sort of moving into
grandparent region, and it makes us all feel that we
weren't intentional enough or present enough when they were little,
but we're just busy raising them and keeping them alive.
Grandparents can treasure every single moment as a parent. That's
a luxury, but it doesn't mean you weren't a great parent.
(15:43):
None of us were awake enough to treasure every moment,
but those moments that you had, you know, all you do.
You need to do, as you say, is a rocket.
Set up a rocket that's leaving from a loving base.
Love your children, praise their achievements, and you're three quarters
of the way there.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah. Even when I was having awkward conversations with the kids, which,
to be honest, if you ask my wife, she'd go,
has been pretty rare because I always love the word yes.
Is that I would always make sure that the new
they felt safe and loved, even if I was saying no,
or I was given them the news they didn't want
to hear. I didn't want them thinking I was withholding
love in any way. I'd always go no, and I
(16:20):
love you, And so I always wanted them to know
underneath all of that there was just a place of
unconditional love. Even though in the rare circumstances I ever
was going no, I don't want you doing that, and
normally let my wife have those more awkward conversations. I
always wanted them to know that they was always held
in love, no matter what they've done and what choices
they'd made.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah, and we had a toy shop up the road
and I'd go in there once a week to buy
lego and she'd say, had a busy, weaker manner. I'd say, yep,
give me that one on the top shelf.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
We can't love them enough, bribe them enough, And.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Do you think you and I would have done anything
differently if we watched a TV show like this, Role
of a Lifetime. I think this is a show with
the show is a great idea. There's a lack of
information and making it in easy, bite sized chunks. It's
just what mumms and dads need right now.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
But I think that the age our kids are, particularly mine,
they didn't grow up with an iPhone in their hand,
so my ignorance isn't as pronounced as it is for
parents today. They really need to be across this stuff,
and particularly you know, I've got two boys, the stuff
of toxic masculinity or the imagery or the Andrew Tait
(17:28):
stuff or the Jim Junkie kind of stuff. Young boys
are open to some really strange and dangerous influences, which
also affects young ladies because of the way men are
reading this stuff. So be aware of what your boys
and your girls are reading online about what it is
to be a man, what is to be a lady
or a woman.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
This stuff's hard.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, Amanda, great work on the show is much needed.
You know, it really is. It's mums and Danstay's need
information that's easy to die, to digest, to be honest,
because there's just not enough hours in the day to
just get through the day, let alone trying to read
up on how to become a parent when it's all
happening right in front of you, and it's the endless
stream of we haven't done this, what's for dinner? You know?
(18:12):
My school Jim kitt hasn't been washed. It's a lot.
So the show I think is a great service to
mums and dads right now, much needed as well, so
well done. It's on ABC on Tuesday nights. Roll of
a lifetime, Amanda. It's always a deep joy to chat.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
To you, and good luck on Sunday. I'll wait for
the waters to rise with your Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah. If you hear news the flooding in Melbourne, you know,
it's my wife and I and then I'll have that dog.
I probably lunch someone on the Monday now I think
about it all right, Amanda, Loss of Love, Love Chat,
You take it, Bye, go bye.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
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