In this powerful episode, Georgie is joined by Dr. Sarah Jane, founder of Spinal Energetics, for a deep dive into trauma, nervous system healing, and the body’s wisdom.
They explore how emotional stress gets stored in the body, how dysregulation can block your manifestations, and why your body isn’t broken — it’s doing exactly what it was designed to do.
Inside the episode:
-
What Spinal Energetics is & how it works
-
Why mindset alone can’t create lasting healing
-
Signs your nervous system is stuck in survival
-
The body-based root of anxiety, fatigue & burnout
-
Georgie's personal session experience with Dr. Sarah 👀
If you feel stuck, burnt out or like something deeper is in the way — this conversation will help you reconnect to your body and begin the healing it’s been asking for.
Connect with Dr Sarah Jane here
Find out more about Spinal Energetics here
Find out more about the Rise App here.
Find the manifestation Lab HERE
You can join The Abundance Academy here.
Join the Rise & Conquer Facebook group here.
Follow the Rise & Conquer Instagram here.
Discover Rise & Conquer courses here.
Shop Rise & Conquer products here.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the
land on which this episode is being recorded, the Combomb
Merry people. They've been having conversations and telling stories on
this land for thousands of years, and we show our
gratitude and respect for their contribution to our environment and culture.
(00:21):
This is Rise and Conquer, the podcast where we strive
to become the highest version of ourselves through curious conversations,
healthy mindsets, laughter, connection, and a deep desire to evolve.
I'm your host, Georgie Stevenson. Join me as we explore parenthood, business, manifestation,
(00:46):
and so much more. It's positive, it's practical, and it's
about putting you in the driver's seat of your own life.
Are you ready? Hello, my loves and world, Welcome back
to the podcast. Today we have another amazing guest episode
for you, and I'm so excited for you to hear
(01:08):
everything about spinal energetics with doctor Sarah Jane. Essentially, what
we dive in today is how stored trauma in your
body could be holding you back from your dream life,
how to identify it, what to do about it, and
how to step through it in pursuit of your highest
(01:28):
level self. This episode was personally so interesting for me.
So I just know you guys will absolutely love it.
And after you've finished, make sure you check out doctor Sarah.
She's just incredible. Doctor Sarah, Welcome to the Rise and
Conker Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be
here with you.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I'm so excited we get to talk on the podcast
because we have just had or I have just had
or you also did. Ye, I have just had a
personal spinal energetics session. It was so interesting, kind of
like you did. Also specifically didn't look into it too
(02:12):
much because I wanted to be very fresh eyes, fresh approach,
and I know you did the exact same thing with me,
so that that's funny. Before I actually get into my
aha moments. Yeah, so we just did a session together.
Now we're talking on the podcast. I cannot wait to
chat because so different, so wild. But also everyone needs
to know about this, That's how I felt. Yeah, yeah,
(02:36):
that's why I start teaching it incredible, like everyone needs
to be under accesses, yeah and not and be able
to think in a different way and do things in
a different way. So before we get into the juicy stuff,
do you want to just introduce yourself and give the
audience a little rundown of who doctor Sarah is.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
A big question? Give us the men you feel. Basically,
I came from a psychology chiropractic background, so I was
really interested in both the mind and the physicality, also
from a really large spiritual interest. As a child, you know,
I loved learning about the world, asking questions why we're here.
It was always that weird kid that was interested in
(03:14):
you know, what is this all for? Why am I here?
You know, it's always different, always looking for something new,
quite a creative mind. Never really fit into the traditional
you know, school systems. Socializing was always okay, but I
always felt like a bit different. And yeah, I just
knew I was always going to pave I guess, pay
the way to something a bit different. Pave the way.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Did I say, pay pave the way? Now we got young,
pave the.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Way to something different, because I think the world needs
more you know, innovators, more creatives, and more people who
are just willing to show up in a non traditional
way and a unexpected way to help each other.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And so can you give us a brief description what
is spinal energetics.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
It's a tough thing. To describe with words, but I'll
try so. Basically, it's a modality. I call it a somatical.
Most people call it an energetic healing the delity because
we are working off the body in the field as well.
So we believe blending both Eastern and Western perspectives, and
we believe things that store in the physicality, such as
our emotions, our experiences. So when I look at your body,
like when I was assessing you before, what I'm finding
(04:17):
is almost like your life experiences, what you've gone through,
what you've held on to, what has affected you, what
have been your external circumstances, or you know, even traumatic
experiences that are stored in your body that haven't quite
integrated in a way for you to kind of be
your best self and be your true self.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
No, that makes complete sense, And like where my mind
just went then, which correct me if I'm wrong. It's
kind of like, you know, when someone turns out to
be a horrible person. Something I'll say to my husband
is like, well, they weren't born that way. You know,
something would have happened to them and then it would
have caused this chain of events where I believe, like
(04:57):
you know, as I've had a baby. You see this
little bit and it's pure love, like, you know, pure everything.
So things have happened, trauma have happened to create someone's personality,
how they deal with situations and whatnot. So is that
kind of what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, Like, definitely, we are all shaped by our environment,
by our experiences and also our perception on those experiences,
but also our childhoods. You know, they're actually a really large,
large impactor for who we are as adults as well.
A lot of the times where children disguising adult bodies,
you know, absolutely like we look like an adult just
(05:33):
like babies we are, and a lot of our you know,
protecting mechanisms, our strategies, they've come from things that we've
had to learn in our life. Sometimes we have this
mindset that was good or that was bad, and that's
not necessarily what I'm saying. I think things in our
lives shape us, and some of the most painful experiences
we've had have been some of the most beneficial experiences
(05:55):
in hindsight as well. You know, it's it's more about
is this stopping me from having experiences that are true
to my authentic self or optimal for me? Like it's
a breakup from ten years ago holding me back from
maybe finding the love of my life that I actually
genuinely want authentically inside myself. You know, we carry so
(06:17):
much from the past, or we think so much about
the future that it can impact our physicality as well.
So we still sometimes I think we're getting much better,
but we still sometimes treat them as separate entities. Just
like you know, a psychologist or talk therapist. They will
talk to you and they'll go over and over the story,
but they've never necessarily touched the body or assessed the
(06:39):
body and how that emotion's impacting and vice versa. Normally,
like a physical therapist won't ever ask you about your childhood,
about your experiences, about your context in life, and why
your body is communicating this way. And we just believe
that the body is a reflection of your interaction with
the world.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, yeah, I one hundred percent believe that. And like
I was telling you off air, I had hashimotos, you know,
a thioid disease, and I, you know, was told by
a physician that it's like I'm gonna have to take
medication for the rest of my life if I want
to maintain that if I want to have a baby,
all those sorts of things. And I worked with a
(07:21):
practitioner and we did what was the body M E
D M R. Guys, don't ask me what this says for,
but we did, you know, kind of similar to the
work that you were doing, just different, not talk therapy,
very working with my subconscious where we worked through trauma
in my body and I was able to put that
(07:43):
into remission and technically reverse it, which is a condition
I told was not reversible. So I one hundred percent
believe this, love this and think so many more people
should know about it because we're often you know, doctors
will say one thing, We're like, Okay, I'll take this medication,
but the rest of my life, and not realizing how
many of our physical problems are to do with the subconscious,
(08:07):
with the body, with the trauma, all that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, well that's what they're trained in. You're not trained
to think outside of that. No, and if anything, they're
stigmatized if they ever try to. So they've been given
an education that's one way, and in their lens, in
their perspective, in their belief system, that's true. You would
need to take that medication for the rest of your life.
But there's a whole other world out there, and a
whole other intelligence that unfortunately our traditional systems not necessarily
(08:33):
exposed to, and you know, things like thyroid. Like I
think we were discussing what, you know, some of the
things that we found and expression and repression and finding
there's a lot of correlation between people who haven't had
the ability to express themselves throughout their life in a
way that is aligned with them then developing things that
affect It's like, just like the thyroid. It's also while
(08:53):
we're seeing an increase in order immune conditions and all
sorts of things. It's not coincidence. The way that we're
living our lives, the way that society is kind of
structured and how we are nurtured is a huge thing,
and it's not something to be underestimated. You know, genetics
are one thing, but Bruce Lipton talks a lot about
you know, epigenetics and how them switching on is a
(09:16):
very different thing to being genetically predisposed. You know, I
don't believe that a lot of these things are genetic.
And if there's an idiopathic disease, like for example, the
thorate thyroid. We don't know why all of a sudden
you have a thyroid issue and before you didn't. Well,
that's usually going to be contextual to your life and
your experiences, the stress you are under, all sorts of things.
And it's really interesting because the glands actually correlate to
(09:38):
the chakras and the energetic centers and things like that.
So that's kind of our perspective. That's not to say
every disease under the sun is no emotional, It's not
what I'm trying to say, but there is a lot
of psychosomatic things that are going on, and unfortunately that's
why we're a bit of a last resort and why
people can get assistance that they weren't getting otherwise, similar
to like the EMDR, which is working with trauma as well.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
And so, how did you kind of, you know, go
from chiropracta to finding spinal energetics. What was like the
momental the thing for you?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I wouldn't say it was like a aha moment directly.
I was studying psychology originally, then when I went into chiropractic,
I really wanted to blend them both. So when I
was a coiro or down that route. In that world,
it was very much the physical body is what our
focus is, the nervous systems what our focus is, which
I think is huge. But then there wasn't much about
(10:32):
what their experience was, what they were going through mentally
and emotionally and spiritually. So I love like trans personal psychotherapy.
I loved Ken Wilber all these philosophers who spoke about,
you know, blending all of those things as one, And
I was like, how amazing would it be if you
were getting your mind and your body together worked on holistically?
And I believe that when we work in the field,
(10:54):
in the energetic field, that we're working with the actual
intelligence of your body. So the same in the intelligence
that create that symptom in the first place is then
the same intelligence that we're working with. So I don't
think I do anything to anyone. What I think I'm
doing is I'm listening to your body and then communicating
through the wisdom. The same wisdom that created that thyroid issue,
(11:14):
for example, is now the same wisdom that then can
reverse it.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Okay, so sorry, I'm trying to process. It's fine, my
brains sticking. So you're saying like you're not necessarily healing.
You're working in the field, you're almost like telling the
trauma it's safe to leave.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Correct that is that kind of Yeah, we're only creating safety,
and then the body then does everything else. Your field,
your body, your soul, whatever you want to be is
doing it. That's why we call it a co facilitation
because also otherwise people are coming to me saying, can
you fix this for me? Can you like there's something wrong?
There's something What your body's saying is not necessarily wrong.
It's trying to communicate to you that there's something deeper
(11:56):
going on. And so we just believe that working with
that same wisdom you know that created that protective strategy,
if you can then make that feel safe, feel heard,
you're seen, then it will no longer need that protective strategy.
It's like walking down a dark aisle at night, for example,
like an alleyway, and there's you will want to be protected, yeah,
(12:18):
but then your body might get confused and treat every
street like it's a dark alleyway and it's not. So
it's about giving context and safety when it's required.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So, for example, with the session we just did, I'm
happy for you to kind of talk about it, what's
an example of something that you noticed in my body
and you know, gave it safety or spoke to the intelligence.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, well you were interesting because consciously you know a lot,
so rationally consciously you've already processed a lot. So that's
not problem. So to speak. Where there becomes a little
bit more of tension in your body is more from
the unconscious. So that's why I said to you things
like an mdr. Spinal energetics hypno therapy things where not
a talk therapy, you're traditional talk therapy. It's going to
(13:03):
be a more benefit for you because you mentally and
rationally understand a lot of this. But it's that other
ninety five percent that we want to work with that
can just be you know, holding you back and not consciously. Ye,
unconsciously and like I did say to you're pretty pretty good.
These are just fine tuning things that we could do
just to really get you on that next elevation. But
(13:25):
you would have felt me like pushing in certain areas
that represent certain things like that represented you know, your
mum and your experience with her, and then certain strategies
were developed from that moment in time that were still
held in the body. So by that release that we did,
it was basically telling the body like, hey, you no
longer need to hold that You're not that child in
that situation anymore. And me telling you that is not
(13:49):
going to work for you.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Now you already know that the body needs to.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Body needs to experience it, So the body needs to
feel safe, not be told it's safe. Yeah, especially for
you know, people who live in their mind their mentality,
like you, like a black and white thinker. You know,
they're my favorite kind of client to work with because
this is kind of like a strange thing to experience.
I'd expect you to be a little bit skeptical about
what I do, and I actually enjoy that because I
(14:14):
can't believe I work in this field, and I never
would have thought I did. And if I hadn't felt
it and changed my whole life around it, I wouldn't
have believed it. Lack a better term either, But hopefully
after this the session and you're experiencing it, and you're
feeling the energy moving through the body and the breath changing,
and the things that we found being you know, relatable,
and they're quite specific. They're not you know, generic terms
(14:36):
as such.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
No, well, even for context. For example, doctor Sarah laid
me down, was touching kind of what's like the collarbone,
the chest, and it was so painful where you were touching,
and I was like, oh my god, why is that
so painful? And like you said, it was like there
was something around my mum in my childhood and it
(14:57):
was you know, her not kind of accepting me as
a child and therefore like there was a lot of
rules and like not accepting my authentic self and like
she said that straight away and I was like yes.
And then you also you said about like my dad
and you're like, oh, is your dad an immigrant? I'm
like yes. And then how you said have you been
(15:18):
with your partner for a very long time? And guys,
doctor Sarah doesn't have me on Instagram, she doesn't know
me like you guys know me. Yes, we're we're friends now.
I'm not very good at social media. That's why you
have a team.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I have a team too. It's important. Yeah, And you're like,
have you been with your partner for very very long time?
And she said very specific things that I was like,
oh wow, yes, and even yeah, even stuff around She's like, oh,
I think you try and hide it. From you know people,
but you're actually you know, repressing and like certain things
(15:55):
that you guys would probably see my social media and
never believe. And she said in to me, and I'm like, yeah, yeah,
or you don't express yourself enough, and like I'm like, yeah, wow, no,
So straight away when right at the start of your session,
I was like, she's legit.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
But even I was shocked, like when I found that,
you know, because I was like, oh, you seem very expressive.
But that's what I mean, Like, that's why. It's not
about what I think. It's not what my mind is thinking.
It's what is the what is the body communicating, and
that's what the body communicated, and that's always a stronger
priority than what I believe you could be as a person,
you know. So it's about learning to listen to what
(16:31):
the body is saying. And it feels different, it stores different,
I think sometimes me even saying that it challenges the
perceptions and the beliefs about the work, and then to
actually feel it, like in the arm and feel the
release and feel you know, just the experience. It's it's
something that's far more I don't know, impactful than me
just talking about what spinal is because it's a lot
(16:52):
of words that I can use to describe it, but
it's not really a tangible way of really justifying what
the modality is.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, well you you have to experience it. It's like my
experience without other modality and then integrating it. I was like,
holy shit, Yeah, these are movements work, but they're mild.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, liked there's simple things like simple things, and even
during the session for something like an MDR or this,
you're not necessarily having these profound experiences, not during it,
which is what people think when they see social media
all the time. It's not necessarily true. The session still
unwinding for hours and days upon after, So your experience
(17:30):
could be two days from now you have a really
you know, maybe there's more clarity or something comes through.
Something comes through, and it takes time for the body
to integrate, you know, the new information and a new
way of being, just like through other somatic modalities too.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So what are kind of some like telltale signs, Like
I know we're all walking around carrying trauma, but what
are some telltale signs that someone is really storing trauma
in their body?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Probably ailments that kind of relate to the psychosomatic system,
So things like fibromyosia, that's quite related to trauma, you know.
In terms of our medical system, what they do is
they give you an antidepressant, and that seems to be
the only way that we can assist people currently in
the traditional system with pain disorders like fibromosia, which already
suggests that it's something to do with the emotional and
(18:22):
mental state. And I'm yet to find anyone who hasn't
gone through pretty intense trauma to then develop something like that.
The other thing would be you know, panic attacks, you know,
anxiety pain for no physical reason, gut issues. Us being
in that stress response all the time can really change
the way that our gut functions, headaches for no reason,
(18:45):
a lot of those things where you know, you go
to the doctor, your blood works fine, but you're experiencing
these symptoms. I think things like that is something where
people need to look at and go, Okay, what can
we do here? And it's it's almost a good sign
if it's not showing up in that way yet, because
it means you're at the stage where you can hopefully
prevent it too. But I do believe that we are
(19:06):
mouldible and things can change when we work on the
deeper layer of ourselves.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Interesting story. So my brother who's the co founder of
Naked Harvest, he went through the same work that I did.
And I remember ever since I was younger, he had
really bad headaches, Like we would go shopping and he'd
be like, I've got a headache. When I have to
get her money used to be like so annoying, ruin date.
I know, he's so weak, So it's my personality. And
(19:37):
even like he'd do a sport carnival, like one day
of like running and then like the next day you'd
have to have school, love and very interesting things where
like you know, he'd get all the tests done and
they were like he's healthy, he's fine. And even even
previously to him doing this kind of deeper work, he
would sleep on his pillar wrong and he'd be like
(19:57):
knocked out the whole day. And there's sort of and
then he did that work. He even and this is
kind of his story to tell, but I'll try and
articulate it, but he said, like it got to the
point where he kind of and it makes sense now
that you're saying it. He kind of spoke to his
pain and like was like I want from yeah, like
(20:20):
we don't actually like I don't actually need to have
a headache right now. And he will speak to his
pain and he's gotten to the point where he's learnt
the work from our practitioner and he doesn't get headaches
anymore and he doesn't get wiped out, and he's like
moved through it. And it's so interesting. Again, I think
it would be really interesting to him have a conversation
(20:40):
with you or even on the podcast. But this is
like something that's like his whole life. I remember his
whole life, and then now it's just something that's past
because he's like moved through it and he was able
to it. Sounds like so fuss fetch he was able
to talk to his pain and move through it.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, but it makes a lot of sense because he's
acknowledging why the pain is there, So it's not just.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
The sitting in it, not just taking a nerve and
not just like going straight to the pain killers, like
sitting with her and being like.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Him. And I think for him what's coming through is
there was some kind of bullying in school, so his
emotional capacity was so what happens is you should have
an innate intelligence at that age, for example, where you
can go do a running event at a sporting carnival
and then your body have the intelligence to be able
to recover without needing a whole day off the next
(21:31):
day at that age if he was ninety, would make sense,
you know what I mean. Yeah, So the context doesn't match,
which tells me that he had so much emotional things
going on that was building up his cup so much
that he's innate wisdom only had that much to work
with to kind of recover. There wasn't enough in his
cup to to recuperate. But it's also a big sign
(21:53):
that he's a sensitive persons, very sensitive person, and so
other people's nscitivities aren't as large, so they can take
in a lot more and you know, deal with more,
so to speak, and not just mentally, but also energetically,
and for other people that can literally drain them and
(22:14):
wipe them out. So he's probably sensitive. But I would
say there's there was something in school which was ordering.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
It's funny because you know how with my stuff it's
about like the mom.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, his stuff is the dad. Yeah, always the way,
I always the way, sweet boy. Yeah, it's a lot,
you know for us to deal with here, this is
this is not meant to be a simple life necessarily
were meant to go through these things. But you can
still have a beautiful life.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yes, you know, yeah, well that's even like the stuff
with like my thyroid. Now looking back, I was really
kind of living a life that wasn't sustainable, you know,
the quarters, all the stress. Like a lot of people
will look at my journey and be like, oh my god,
how how did you do so much when you're so young,
And I'm like, well, I developed an That's how I do.
(23:00):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
That makes sense?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, it makes complete sense.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Like I'm not shocked now I did because you were
running at a point of this drata isn't sustainable.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
And I was like that for so long that I
didn't know how to run it any other capacity. And
consciously it was like, oh, I even remember I used
to go to numerous practitioners and they'd be like, you
just need a stress less and you just need to
like relax, And I used to be like, it doesn't
matter how much I know. I'm like, this is the
(23:31):
most unhelpful thing I've ever experienced, And yet it wasn't
until I worked with the subconscious that I was able.
So all that was protection skills strategies that I had
learned that worked really well to get me certain things
in life.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
In the Western world, it work, yes, to be successful.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
No, yeah, none of them. Not not my poor body.
And I had to unlearn it, and I had to
again kind of talk to my body and be like,
would just be like, it's okay, we don't have to
always prove ourselves. We don't have to constantly succeed to
be worthy, and like all these kind of wounds I
had to work through.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
So true. And you said something really important, which was
when you weren't in alignment. So when you weren't listening,
when you weren't in alignment, that's when there's more friction
and more chaos. And like I was saying to you before,
I don't think you live necessarily a quiet life now,
but it's a definitely more aligned life, which is why
you don't get fatigued working at this level because it matches.
(24:33):
But it's when there's friction there that you won't have
as much to work with the body. The body is
telling you again, okay, something's not right. Here, and especially
with autoimmune diseases, you know, the body is not meant
to attack itself for lack of better words. With that,
the body is literally confuse and turns on itself to
get your attention. And that usually comes from other things
(24:56):
as well. But yeah, you're very aware mentally, so the
awareness isn't enough. No, you know a lot of people
that come to me are very intelligent, highly intelligent people
who know all this, like even this conversation. Yet I
know that I know I should stress less, but again
that's not actually solving you know what the experience is
for that individual telling someone that.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
No at all. Yeah, well it's actually very interesting because, yeah,
Cooper came into my office the other day and obviously
he was dealing with whatever he was going through, but
he goes, he goes, You're so relaxed, were spicy, Georgie,
And you know, he's talking about something in business and
he wants to like go to the next level and whatnot,
(25:39):
and I'm like, I'm just I'm not stressed about it,
Like I I know I will get there, like I'm
not stressed. And you can tell he was getting worked
up and probably going into old strategies and I just
was like Cooper, it's fine, and he's like, I don't
like this, Georgie, but you.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Won't letting him play out the story. No, I wasn't
wanted to.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I know, I wasn't letting hm him playing to the
pattern we usually play.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
In tea and especially as siblings, Like there would be
a pattern there that you both could have jumped on
the train for. So you were annoying him in that regard.
But I like that. But you've also developed enough in
a resilience now and knowing that things always work out, yes,
and stressing about it, you actually can't think clear. Like
when you're stressed, you're reacting instead of actually you know,
(26:22):
taking a moment to actually respond in a clear way,
in an appropriate way.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So, well, like my big mission kind of right now
is like I have kind of proved to myself that
I can do really incredible things at very fast paced
and you know, all the things. But I'm like, okay,
so my next mission is like I can do all that,
but not in these Yeah, not in the high cortisol,
(26:49):
in the hustle, in that masculine energy. And so my
whole journey at the moment is like very stepping into
the feminine, healing that and then showing people it's like, well,
you can do it this way too. I've experienced that way.
It's just I developed a lot of issues.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I think it's really goodful that you're touching on that
because for me as as a female entrepreneur as well,
I've had to be quite masculine to gain success in
a certain way as well. And I'm really at a
point now too where i'm just you know, I'm in
the flow of things as well, Like even coming up here,
this is the last minute kind of trip, but I
was like, Okay, I'll bring Pepper and Katy, you'll look
(27:27):
after it. Whereas before, if we got lost, for example,
before if that had to happen before we were gone,
where are we going, We're gonna be last at an
Whereas it's more enjoyable when it's not so stressful.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I can feel your energy and it's very much even
matching like what I'm trying to embody, and it's so
nice to be around. And I think about before and
the energy I would have been in, and it's like
it would have been very intense for other people. Oh
you don't work for me though, Georgie said, don't get
me wrong, like Sarah, you don't want any.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Georgie and I are both difficult to work with. But
that's okay, that's a whole nother podcast difficult. We just
we've got.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Sarah literally goes to my session. You're quite difficult to
work for. You have very high expectations and you want
everyone to do it like you. And I was like,
oh my gosh, she's so right.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
It takes one to know one, so I understand. But yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Girls laugh when they listen to this podcast, they'll be like,
oh my god, she's actually you know.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I think it's you wouldn't be where you are if
you didn't have those standards. So I get it. But
then it comes a point where you have to grow,
you have to evolve, and you have to bring people
in and you have to let go of things being perfect. Yeah,
and I think, yeah, every person that owns a business
gets to that point where they're like, Okay, I can't
literally do everything myself and.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Don't have the capacity. Yeah, no, I want to kind
of talk to you a little bit more about For example,
I also has been diagnosed so like p so o,
ass is this something that you have worked with with
clients and maybe also like you rually spoke about the
other one buts and like endometriosis.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Actually yeah, So for me, anything that's inflammatory in the
system is something I'm interested in. You did say its
very say you had inflammas yea perfect, that's just a
tendency to inflame. Yeah, that doesn't shock me. Knowing your
nature and knowing the way that you know your life
is and also what you've gone through in your life.
Inflammation is you know, related to grief and sadness as
well as uh, you know, just constant pushing, pushing, pushing.
(29:35):
So I have a really large interest in any kind
of inflammatory disease because anything that ends in itis, for example,
is known as inflammatory.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And it's like, well, why is this person so inflamed?
Like why can I sorry? Just to be specifically, what
is inflame to mean?
Speaker 2 (29:51):
It basically just means that the body is having a
hyper response to something. There's a lot of like rheumatoid arthritis,
for example, is an inflammatory disease, and Jimmy triosis and
things like that. There's things going on in the lining
and there has to be some kind of emotional component
because why do some people have it and some people don't.
(30:12):
The other interesting part is, you know you can get
you know, surgery and things like that, and then it
grows back, you know, So why is it growing back?
Things like crisis that have a large interest in exma,
even like gluten intolerance and things like that, even like
inflammatory bow disease IBS, things like that, gut syndromes where
(30:33):
there's no real reason what's going on. We can't find anything.
You just have an irritated gut. So anythink you eat,
you have to go on this diet for the rest
of your life. A lot of that. No one's been
asked again about their emotions, what they've gone through in
their life, what's been passed through their families. For example,
has there been sexual trauma in the family, has there
(30:54):
been emotional trauma in the family. What's happened in your
life that the body has decided that that era is
the area it could be matched with any disease. But
I have a special interest in inflammatory conditions and especially
autoimmune So like in my family, my mum is currently
in care from a really rare brain disease called adem
(31:14):
which is a cute demylination kephemyelitis, which is a bit
of a big mouthful, but it's basically an autoimmune condition
and an instantaneous MS. She was sixty eight when it happened, healthy, happy,
in the next minute was in a coma and she's
now brain damage as a result of this really rare disease.
I had MS in my family, I had Parkinson's in
my family. I had M and D in my family.
(31:35):
So there was also an extensive amount of trauma in
my mum's family, and so for me, it was like, well,
and they didn't work on it either. But you know,
that wasn't something my mum ever really spoke about or did.
I never remember my mum doing any of the things
that we are doing. So for me, I wanted to
I didn't want that to happen to me. And I
(31:56):
do believe that we have impact. What we do in
this life does have impact, working with our emotions and
what we've gone through. If we don't, it will catch
up with us later. And you know, we are all
designed to eventually leave this planet. That's okay, But I
think there's things that we can do that aren't necessarily
you know, genetic in the line, but nurtured through the line.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah, so someone does have, like you said, in inflammatory Yeah, case,
what's your sort of recommendations? What are the steps? Yeah,
well you know, my lawyer, what do we do?
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, I get it. There's no point having the information
without knowing what to do with it.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
So the reason I love spinal energetics is that it
changes the nervous system response. So it takes you out
of that sympathetic state, which is that cartersol driven state,
that fight or flight state, and into a parasympathetic state.
So you can't have that kind of you can.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Rest and recover. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
So you can't have that kind of inflammation going on
if you are in your parasympathetic state at times. You
can only be in one at a moment in time
as well, so if you're stressed, you're not in parasympathetic,
you can only be in one.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
So the way that I've heard someone explain this to me,
which was really helpful, was he was saying, like, you know,
if you've had a lot of traumas and certain coping,
then you implant coping mechanisms and like whatnot. And he
explained it like it feels like there's seventeen tigers around you,
and like you know, in the wild, we see a tiger,
we're stressed. And so unless you're resolving these traumas and
(33:26):
working through them, you're constantly going to be in a
state of survival. So if a tiger is chasing you,
you're not digesting food, you're not healing, you're not resting.
And so that just made so much sense to me.
And so his whole thing is like he was like,
so we need to reduce the tigers and then you
will be in a state. And he's like, you're you know,
(33:48):
Hashimotos will heal itself because your body knows how to
do it, It created it, it knows how to resolve it.
But you need to be in an environment where you're
not in survival, you're not stress rest all the time.
And like you said, for me, consciously, I know all
the things. And it's like if you consciously said that
to me, I'm like cool, But it's.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
How do I yea feel that? How do I embody that?
Speaker 1 (34:12):
How do I embody? And that's why you're saying, like
we need to work with an energetic field because it's
not a conscious talk therapy situation.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
No, no, Otherwise, you know, you could do thirty talk
therapy sessions about the tigers, and it's not especially for you.
It's not going to change your physiology. So Peter Levine,
he's a Semitic therapist, and he spoke a lot about this.
He has a book called Waking the Tiger. Yeah, it's
really really interesting. What I see a lot is exactly
what you know, You're other practitioner was saying. But and
(34:39):
emails the tiger instead, or you know, not getting a
cart spots the tiger instead, or your partner not being
twenty minutes late is the tiger instead. It's an accumulation,
So we don't respond in a way that's necessarily relatable
to that one event. All of a sudden, it's it's
an accumulation of every other thing that's ever gone wrong,
(35:00):
and you explode at that point. And that's just because
we're in this constant, constant stress state. And the Western
world praises people in that state. What we deem successful.
A lot of people don't know how to do in
a state of flow. So you can get all these
amazing things and not necessarily have to grind yourself like
to death to do it. It doesn't mean that it's simple.
(35:20):
It's not. You still have to work hard. I do
believe that, but not to the point where you're going
to have to hurt yourself to get it, or you know,
experience pain. Like what's the point of having everything if
you wake up every day in pain? Like your health
is is everything? Yeah, unfortunately we are all pretty stressed
in the in the West. If you go to somewhere
(35:42):
like you know, so I love traveling because you learn
so much from different cultures. But if you go somewhere
like you know, Southeast Asia or India or whatever, they're
they're happy people, even amongst the chaos. I remember seeing,
you know, Buddhists and being like, why are they so happy?
And we're so miserable And they're not having that friction
against life as much as we are. That's that's what
(36:04):
got me interested in this work. Like, you know, you
have to have your own trauma story to be interested
into this work. So obviously that's where it's come from.
But who are you without identifying with it? And who
do you want to be because of it? And despite
of it? And I like to help people return back
to their true self instead of being this hijacked version
(36:26):
of them and what's happened to them?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
And so when you work with someone, obviously you do
one on one sessions and do you also do oh
you don't do just for me? I do feel very
so thank you. Obviously you work with people and you
teach them this work. Yeah, what's the kind of you know,
like process of how you work with people.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
That's how it all started. I started in clinic and
for example, you know, rubbing out a sow muscle. I
would come back next week. So I wasn't working with
the intelligence. I was almost trying to override the intelligence
by smoothing it out, telling it what to do, and
then the next week would be back. Or I would
work on, say like a tension pattern in the neck,
and I would go just work on the neck, thinking
(37:16):
if I wanted to help someone's neck, I had to
work purely on their neck. They felt good for three days,
four days, next minute it's back again. So why is
it coming back Because we're not working with the actual
intelligence that created that tension. So once I started working
with energy and in the field, people weren't experiencing these
symptoms coming back again straight away. Like if anything like
(37:37):
maybe once a year, and then when we worked at
that again, it moved and shifted so much quicker again,
because you're working with the actual part of you that
created it, rather than trying to fight it, do you
know what I mean? Yeah, And we work in the
areas of ease. So let's say, for example, your right
neck is super tight. Just as an example. What we
do is we look for the areas that are working well.
(37:59):
We then work more with those, and then that shares
that richness to the other areas that are more energy poor,
for example, like the Robin hoods of of energy. Like,
here's richness, we can send that to the area of
that's not working as well. Again, that even changes the
perspective of the client, like instead of thinking what's wrong
with them? And how do I fix it? How can
(38:21):
I listen to the body and communicate it and work
with the intelligence to have this person feel safer and
more loved as a person. That's our main goal. Yeah, Like,
if I'm looking at what's wrong with you?
Speaker 1 (38:34):
What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, that's a very different lens. We have that enough,
you know. And so my goal isn't to fix anyone.
I don't believe anyone needs to be fixed. I believe,
like for example, with your thyroid, Yes, that's communication, but
if we didn't listen to it, you might have kept
living life that way.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Well yeah, and it was completely out of the linement.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, so let's bring you back into that and not
just through conscious words, but through actual experiential feeling of
feeling who you really are and feeling like what is
you and what isn't you? So then you can you know,
flow far more easier of even decision making. No, that
is a line with me though, That isn't who are
you as a person. It's like everything that really matters
(39:18):
you feel it on the table, almost like a really
good meditation or you know sometimes even you know people
are really into yoga, they get this sense of connecting
with themselves and the bigger picture and all that noise
gets not so loud.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Someone asked me the other day, like, what's like a
really peaceful moment you've had recently? And straight away I thought, oh,
six months ago when I did a yin yoga class.
It's like I've never felt so And then I was like,
oh my god, that was six months ago. What am
I doing?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Why?
Speaker 1 (39:51):
And this is sorry, this is a random question, why
do you think we because a lot of us we
for example, someone like me, who has access to people
like you, who does have resources, who does have time
and money. Why do you think we don't gravitate towards
(40:11):
the things that can distress us, that can help our body,
that can talk to our intelligence, and it takes to
the point of us getting sick to then go and
figure out and go on this big journey like why
do you think we don't go, Oh, well, I'm just
going to do a yin class weekly.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Very good question for me. Change is hard, so we
may not want to change. Yeah, Number one, so a
lot of us don't change until we have to. Number two,
we don't really want to listen to what the body
has to say. We might tell us something we don't
really want to hear, so we avoid that moment and
(40:49):
that quiet time with ourselves and having to listen to
We might have to make some decisions we don't want
to make, or you know, there might have to be
some changes made. So I think that they're kind of
a lot of the reasons. Another reason might be self
sabotage or you know, I don't deserve to feel like
that I don't deserve to feel peaceful. I only know
this feeling of being stressed all the time. So it
(41:10):
can be, you know, just being familiar with an environment
that feels.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Stressful creatures of comfort, aren't we Well.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah, we'll always choose, you know, what feels familiar rather
than even what's best for us. You know, there's a
study done makes me say, because I love dogs, but
there was a study done on doggies where they're in
a cage and they would get electrocuted every time they
tried to leave the cage. And then they just left
the doors open and they no longer electrocuted them, and
(41:38):
not one dog left. I know, you don't have to
put this in. I love animals, by the way, so
it makes me really sad too. Would never get past
these days. But what we can learn from that is
we're not really much different. We're in these cages of
these expectations of what society says we should be, shouldn't
be what our chraunmeries can be that you know, that
(42:00):
electrocution and then when we have the chance to free
ourselves from it, even though that's something we deeply deeply
want and yearn for, the safety the survival still can
be larger, and that is not a world I want
to live in. I want to live in with people
who who have managed to have that courage to step
out even when it hurts.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
There's a really great quote that sums that up, and
it's like, you'll always pick a familiar hell over an
unfamiliar heaven. Hmm. That's what we're kind of trained to do.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
And again, it's not a conscious choice. No one would
consciously want to stay in the cage.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
No, and that's why we need to work with a subconscious.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yes, it is, and that's why we get such you
know amazing. You know, people once they have a session,
they tell everyone about it. And the reason they tell
everyone about it is because there's a certain like wanting
to share this gift with people, the of being able
to connect back to yourself. But again, people like you
were saying about the inn, sometimes avoid trying this because
it's like, well, I don't know what could come up,
(42:59):
I don't know what I might feel. There's a reason
there's this feeling of oh, because you know, what will
what will I have to do?
Speaker 1 (43:10):
I have a friend who has had someone really close
to them pass away. You know, a couple of years ago,
and they are very intelligent, they're very spiritual, but they
said it's like too hard. I can't go to it
and process it. It's like I know I should, and
I know it's what I need to do, but it's
like the thought of it, like it's too crippling. Hearing
(43:33):
that breaks my heart because you know, this person's even
conscious and they like it's too hard. So you can
imagine someone who isn't aware of this work, who's not
very conscious the sort of patterns and the sort of
health issues that would be happening because they refuse to,
you know, work through that trauma.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
And grief is hard. You know, grief is like, out
of everything I've ever experienced, grief has been the hardest
thing I've experienced. But what we can do with spinal
which is what I love about it as well, is yes,
we're working with the experiences, but it doesn't come up
while you're on the table, so you won't get specific
things about like you know what your trauma is specifically
(44:14):
as such, you'll just feel this ease in your body
or this movement in your body, so it's not rehashing
trauma as such.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
You know, I didn't have any specific trauma came up, Like,
there was a lot of thoughts and feelings, and I
felt like I went through a lot of waves of
like really fast thoughts and then like a letdown and
then fast.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Thoughts should feel kind of like yeah, a ride.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Yeah, that's exactly what I felt through your emotional states
and through states of consciousness.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
But I understand why people find it challenging. But then
you know what's more challenging living a life like that
in pain forever. And grief is such a beautiful thing too,
Like it means you love someone you know, and you're
not going to get to that straight away, and maybe
she's just not ready yet.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah you know.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Yeah, Like I mean, every day I miss a lot
of things, but it's also because they meant something to me.
Some people don't get to have.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
That on the scale of emotions. If you can feel
the depths of grief and sadness and disappointment, it's because
you can also feel the highs, And it's like, what
a beautiful thing, because without feeling this, you're never going
to feel that, And what a sad life to just
stay in the middle and feel nothing. Yeah, Oh that's
(45:30):
why you and I have such interesting experiences in life
though too.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
They're very drastically over here to hear. But that's what
you said makes perfect sense. You can't have these amazingly
beautiful life experiences that are almost unheard of for most
people's life, Yeah, and then expect the other end of
the spectrum to not be in existence as well. It's
got to balance out somewhere. There's two sides to every coin,
(45:54):
you know, and you wouldn't know the true beauty of
it if you hadn't known the true hell of it.
So that's why. Also, I think you're calmer and got
more resilience because you're just like, well, I've been there,
I've got myself out of the worst of the worst,
so I can do it again if I have to.
So there's a sense of calm which comes from that
learning about yourself. I know.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Doctor Sarah Guys did say that I'm due for hard life.
So not a hard life, but two trict life, an
intricate life, And that's no, that's very much here. And
I think even though on my social media obviously a
lot of people would see the highlights, they would see
the life I live, what I've created, but what they
don't see is the depths that I've gone to in
(46:37):
order to be able to be someone that creates that.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Yeah, well we don't tend to film that bit, no
people Ane is interested in watching that sometimes. But that's
why for me, like whenever I see someone living, you know,
something that I inspire to live by as well, I
just know that that didn't come easy for that person.
There's just you know, even overnight success doesn't exist, you.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Know, it doesn't exist, does not not a thing, not
a thing.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
For me, I find Australia culture quite different in that way.
You know, if you're really successful, it's it's an interesting
thing that shows up for people that you know, where
as opposed to say someone like America or that.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
We have the tall poppies.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah we really do, We really do. Yeah, because you're
from from born Australian and just the difference in attitude
is yeah, you know, it's wild. It is wild when
you really value and understand that, like how incredible that
someone can create that for themselves when like odds are
against them. Yeah, like be inspired by it.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yes, But also that's what I kind of talk to
people about when they do, you know, say like I'm
going through it's really bad hardship or you know, express
how you know, hurt their feelings. Something I say is,
you know every inspiring person that is, you know the
Tony Robbins that all those people their background, like you
hear about it and you're like, oh my god, that's
(47:57):
it's so much. And so I try and instilling them
that it's like, yes, this is hard at the moment,
but your mess is your message, and this is something
that you'll use and you will carry if you choose to.
So it's like, yes, we can go through these really
dark and hard times, but it is molding us into
the motion you know, credible best us, higher self us,
(48:21):
and how important because other ways we cannot become that
person without those experiences. Like if just everything went right,
you had no hardships or anything like that, you you
wouldn't know how to relate to people, You wouldn't know
how to express yourself, you wouldn't know how to feel
it just it wouldn't Really That's why you see a
(48:42):
lot of you know, maybe like celebrity children who get
born into a certain sort of privilege who end up
like doing drugs and going off the rails because they
they're like, I want to feel something. They've never had
to struggle. They create their own struggle.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah. I couldn't think of anything worse than being given
and absolutely everything and anything. That's why when people become famous,
for example, it's so challenging for them because it's like
they have access to anything and everything, and then what's
life about? Then? You know, that's why even celebrity culture
is not as easy as people.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Think it is not I would hate.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
It's really weird how many people want to be absolutely
not but you're.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Not being able to go to the grocery store or
just they have really simple privacies.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
I like that I've had a life that's shaped me
in that way. I think it's made me understand people more,
like you said, but not just from like the words
of it, but truly, like you can look at someone
and know when they've been through like real pain. And
that's why a lot of the time, like traditional you know,
therapy sessions may not work because the person's listening to you,
but you're like, you don't know what I'm talking about.
(49:49):
You've read this in a book, but you haven't experienced it.
So when someone has experienced it, there's a knowing between
the two and two people, there's an intelligence that goes,
this person has been to that place and pick themselves
back up again. You know, I probably wouldn't be in
this field of work and do well at it necessarily
if I hadn't had that experience. I couldn't imagine having
(50:12):
a perfect life and being able to work in this field. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Even kind of what we spoke about off air, you
can see that that has all your hardships and everything
it has gone through has built this current.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Usually birthed it. You know, the hardest time of my
life burst it. I had to do something. It was
like all this stuff had happened and I had to
do something with it, and if I didn't do something
with it, it was just gonna overtew me. Yeah, Like I
was just so I had to do something and something
bigger than myself, you know, to help, because if it
(50:46):
was just about me, then that wouldn't be enough either.
And you've done that as well. People say like, oh,
this is your modality and things like that. I don't
necessarily believe that. I believe that I've that's something you
fostered out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And a lot of what
I talk about is not new, just a different way
of expressing it.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
You know, I do a lot of mindset work with
my community, and you know, talk about manifestation and spiritual principles,
and you know, people ask, oh, you know, should I
do your course? Should I join you know, the community,
And I kind of explained to them, I'm like, well,
when you listen to me, does it activate you? Do
you feel something? Because I'm going to be for certain
(51:22):
people and I'll say something to someone and it will
be AHA moment and it will be like life change.
But there will be other people that there's nothing. And
so I love that you said that because it's like
there will be certain people with you that it's like
life changing.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
This is it.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
This is the thing in saying that though you have
literally created a movement, So do not doubt only movement.
You know, yes, tools too, Yes, don't downplay your incrediblen.
What do you feel like is next for spinal energetics?
Speaker 2 (51:53):
You know what? I actually don't know. I've never been
a planner. Scared this is scary?
Speaker 1 (51:57):
No, yeah, absolutely, I never planned this first place.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
So I kind of just go with what I feel.
You know, if you had told me that i'd be
out of practice, you know. Two years ago, i'd be
like no, no, no, no, because I love working with clients.
But now I'm really passionate about teaching. Currently, We've got
six hundred or so practitioners around the world, and I've
taught every single one of them. I'm really proud of
the integrity of the medality and I want to expand it,
(52:21):
but not at the cost of the reverence of the work.
So I'm kind of in that period now, like how
do I figure out it? But not losing to the
heart of it too. So that's kind of where my
mind is at the moment. But I love my life
is pretty much coming and doing things like this now,
and just I want to get as many people hearing
about it so that they aren't missing out on something
(52:45):
that could really assist them because it changed my life.
I know it's anecdotal, but I've seen it change so
many people's lives. And you know, if even one person
hears this and goes and tries it and has happiness
and joy and hope in their life again, then that's
just I've done my job. You've done it, Yeah done,
Yeah done?
Speaker 1 (53:02):
So how can someone go and get around the work experience.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
It give us all the plugs well, even online. So
if you hadn't told me it worked online, would not
have believed you. But I started doing work online in
COVID and it worked, and I was like, this is crazy.
And again we'll get into this. Tony robbins that she
has a result experiment on it. He's just released papers
on his online upw and the physiological changes you get
from mirror neurons and things like that. So there's actual
(53:28):
science that show that online is just as powerful as
in person. There's no difference.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
That makes complete sense to me though, because if you
think about social media and the movement of social media,
of TikTok of you know what I mean, Like, there
has to be somethin in it, otherwise it would not
make sense.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
I think even with spunk, people can feel it the video.
That's why people either love it or hate it, because
this is this like it provokes.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
I loved it, touch me on.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
People provoked something so I can't remember what I was saying,
but there's something around that. So online you can get
a spinaline, so people do online sessions in person. We've
got a beautiful studio in Richmond, which is our headquarters
where the practitioners work closer with me, so they're probably
the most experience in terms of time with me. Otherwise,
we've got practitioners all over the world. We've got a
(54:15):
little map where you can type in where you're from
and see who your closest person is if you prefer
in person.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Is anyone on the Gold Coast?
Speaker 2 (54:22):
There is, there is people on the Gold Coast.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
I'm not allowed to say who I look favorite like,
I'm absolutely there's I think three or four on the
Goldie Cool.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
Yeah, amazing. Well, we'll make sure we link everything in
the show notes. But thank you so much for coming
on the show. Thank you so much for my private
such I feel so special, guys. I know it was
honestly incredible, and like you said, I've dipped my toe
into this work, so I one hundred percent believe in it.
And like you said, for me, it honestly saved my
(54:54):
health to work with my subconscious to put my throat
into remissions. So yeah, thank you so much for explaining
for your time, for being here with us. We really
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Thank you for sharing your story of that as well.
I think it's always people when they hear someone like
yourself having experienced something like that and then working with
a modality like this and it changing you. I think
we'll definitely get some people who maybe wouldn't necessarily look
into something like this to look into it.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
So thank you for helping me spread the word so welcome.
You think I'm closed off? Do you think I repress
sometimes conjectually? Thank you so much, Sarah,
I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the
land on which this episode is being recorded, the Combomb
Merry people. They've been having conversations and telling stories on
this land for thousands of years, and we show our
gratitude and respect for their contribution to our environment and culture.
(00:21):
This is Rise and Conquer, the podcast where we strive
to become the highest version of ourselves through curious conversations,
healthy mindsets, laughter, connection, and a deep desire to evolve.
I'm your host, Georgie Stevenson. Join me as we explore parenthood, business, manifestation,
(00:46):
and so much more. It's positive, it's practical, and it's
about putting you in the driver's seat of your own life.
Are you ready? Hello, my loves and world, Welcome back
to the podcast. Today we have another amazing guest episode
for you, and I'm so excited for you to hear
(01:08):
everything about spinal energetics with doctor Sarah Jane. Essentially, what
we dive in today is how stored trauma in your
body could be holding you back from your dream life,
how to identify it, what to do about it, and
how to step through it in pursuit of your highest
(01:28):
level self. This episode was personally so interesting for me.
So I just know you guys will absolutely love it.
And after you've finished, make sure you check out doctor Sarah.
She's just incredible. Doctor Sarah, Welcome to the Rise and
Conker Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be
here with you.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I'm so excited we get to talk on the podcast
because we have just had or I have just had
or you also did. Ye, I have just had a
personal spinal energetics session. It was so interesting, kind of
like you did. Also specifically didn't look into it too
(02:12):
much because I wanted to be very fresh eyes, fresh approach,
and I know you did the exact same thing with me,
so that that's funny. Before I actually get into my
aha moments. Yeah, so we just did a session together.
Now we're talking on the podcast. I cannot wait to
chat because so different, so wild. But also everyone needs
to know about this, That's how I felt. Yeah, yeah,
(02:36):
that's why I start teaching it incredible, like everyone needs
to be under accesses, yeah and not and be able
to think in a different way and do things in
a different way. So before we get into the juicy stuff,
do you want to just introduce yourself and give the
audience a little rundown of who doctor Sarah is.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
A big question? Give us the men you feel. Basically,
I came from a psychology chiropractic background, so I was
really interested in both the mind and the physicality, also
from a really large spiritual interest. As a child, you know,
I loved learning about the world, asking questions why we're here.
It was always that weird kid that was interested in
(03:14):
you know, what is this all for? Why am I here?
You know, it's always different, always looking for something new,
quite a creative mind. Never really fit into the traditional
you know, school systems. Socializing was always okay, but I
always felt like a bit different. And yeah, I just
knew I was always going to pave I guess, pay
the way to something a bit different. Pave the way.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Did I say, pay pave the way? Now we got young,
pave the.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Way to something different, because I think the world needs
more you know, innovators, more creatives, and more people who
are just willing to show up in a non traditional
way and a unexpected way to help each other.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And so can you give us a brief description what
is spinal energetics.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
It's a tough thing. To describe with words, but I'll
try so. Basically, it's a modality. I call it a somatical.
Most people call it an energetic healing the delity because
we are working off the body in the field as well.
So we believe blending both Eastern and Western perspectives, and
we believe things that store in the physicality, such as
our emotions, our experiences. So when I look at your body,
like when I was assessing you before, what I'm finding
(04:17):
is almost like your life experiences, what you've gone through,
what you've held on to, what has affected you, what
have been your external circumstances, or you know, even traumatic
experiences that are stored in your body that haven't quite
integrated in a way for you to kind of be
your best self and be your true self.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
No, that makes complete sense, And like where my mind
just went then, which correct me if I'm wrong. It's
kind of like, you know, when someone turns out to
be a horrible person. Something I'll say to my husband
is like, well, they weren't born that way. You know,
something would have happened to them and then it would
have caused this chain of events where I believe, like
(04:57):
you know, as I've had a baby. You see this
little bit and it's pure love, like, you know, pure everything.
So things have happened, trauma have happened to create someone's personality,
how they deal with situations and whatnot. So is that
kind of what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, Like, definitely, we are all shaped by our environment,
by our experiences and also our perception on those experiences,
but also our childhoods. You know, they're actually a really large,
large impactor for who we are as adults as well.
A lot of the times where children disguising adult bodies,
you know, absolutely like we look like an adult just
(05:33):
like babies we are, and a lot of our you know,
protecting mechanisms, our strategies, they've come from things that we've
had to learn in our life. Sometimes we have this
mindset that was good or that was bad, and that's
not necessarily what I'm saying. I think things in our
lives shape us, and some of the most painful experiences
we've had have been some of the most beneficial experiences
(05:55):
in hindsight as well. You know, it's it's more about
is this stopping me from having experiences that are true
to my authentic self or optimal for me? Like it's
a breakup from ten years ago holding me back from
maybe finding the love of my life that I actually
genuinely want authentically inside myself. You know, we carry so
(06:17):
much from the past, or we think so much about
the future that it can impact our physicality as well.
So we still sometimes I think we're getting much better,
but we still sometimes treat them as separate entities. Just
like you know, a psychologist or talk therapist. They will
talk to you and they'll go over and over the story,
but they've never necessarily touched the body or assessed the
(06:39):
body and how that emotion's impacting and vice versa. Normally,
like a physical therapist won't ever ask you about your childhood,
about your experiences, about your context in life, and why
your body is communicating this way. And we just believe
that the body is a reflection of your interaction with
the world.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, yeah, I one hundred percent believe that. And like
I was telling you off air, I had hashimotos, you know,
a thioid disease, and I, you know, was told by
a physician that it's like I'm gonna have to take
medication for the rest of my life if I want
to maintain that if I want to have a baby,
all those sorts of things. And I worked with a
(07:21):
practitioner and we did what was the body M E
D M R. Guys, don't ask me what this says for,
but we did, you know, kind of similar to the
work that you were doing, just different, not talk therapy,
very working with my subconscious where we worked through trauma
in my body and I was able to put that
(07:43):
into remission and technically reverse it, which is a condition
I told was not reversible. So I one hundred percent
believe this, love this and think so many more people
should know about it because we're often you know, doctors
will say one thing, We're like, Okay, I'll take this medication,
but the rest of my life, and not realizing how
many of our physical problems are to do with the subconscious,
(08:07):
with the body, with the trauma, all that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, well that's what they're trained in. You're not trained
to think outside of that. No, and if anything, they're
stigmatized if they ever try to. So they've been given
an education that's one way, and in their lens, in
their perspective, in their belief system, that's true. You would
need to take that medication for the rest of your life.
But there's a whole other world out there, and a
whole other intelligence that unfortunately our traditional systems not necessarily
(08:33):
exposed to, and you know, things like thyroid. Like I
think we were discussing what, you know, some of the
things that we found and expression and repression and finding
there's a lot of correlation between people who haven't had
the ability to express themselves throughout their life in a
way that is aligned with them then developing things that
affect It's like, just like the thyroid. It's also while
(08:53):
we're seeing an increase in order immune conditions and all
sorts of things. It's not coincidence. The way that we're
living our lives, the way that society is kind of
structured and how we are nurtured is a huge thing,
and it's not something to be underestimated. You know, genetics
are one thing, but Bruce Lipton talks a lot about
you know, epigenetics and how them switching on is a
(09:16):
very different thing to being genetically predisposed. You know, I
don't believe that a lot of these things are genetic.
And if there's an idiopathic disease, like for example, the
thorate thyroid. We don't know why all of a sudden
you have a thyroid issue and before you didn't. Well,
that's usually going to be contextual to your life and
your experiences, the stress you are under, all sorts of things.
And it's really interesting because the glands actually correlate to
(09:38):
the chakras and the energetic centers and things like that.
So that's kind of our perspective. That's not to say
every disease under the sun is no emotional, It's not
what I'm trying to say, but there is a lot
of psychosomatic things that are going on, and unfortunately that's
why we're a bit of a last resort and why
people can get assistance that they weren't getting otherwise, similar
to like the EMDR, which is working with trauma as well.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
And so, how did you kind of, you know, go
from chiropracta to finding spinal energetics. What was like the
momental the thing for you?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I wouldn't say it was like a aha moment directly.
I was studying psychology originally, then when I went into chiropractic,
I really wanted to blend them both. So when I
was a coiro or down that route. In that world,
it was very much the physical body is what our
focus is, the nervous systems what our focus is, which
I think is huge. But then there wasn't much about
(10:32):
what their experience was, what they were going through mentally
and emotionally and spiritually. So I love like trans personal psychotherapy.
I loved Ken Wilber all these philosophers who spoke about,
you know, blending all of those things as one, And
I was like, how amazing would it be if you
were getting your mind and your body together worked on holistically?
And I believe that when we work in the field,
(10:54):
in the energetic field, that we're working with the actual
intelligence of your body. So the same in the intelligence
that create that symptom in the first place is then
the same intelligence that we're working with. So I don't
think I do anything to anyone. What I think I'm
doing is I'm listening to your body and then communicating
through the wisdom. The same wisdom that created that thyroid issue,
(11:14):
for example, is now the same wisdom that then can
reverse it.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Okay, so sorry, I'm trying to process. It's fine, my
brains sticking. So you're saying like you're not necessarily healing.
You're working in the field, you're almost like telling the
trauma it's safe to leave.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Correct that is that kind of Yeah, we're only creating safety,
and then the body then does everything else. Your field,
your body, your soul, whatever you want to be is
doing it. That's why we call it a co facilitation
because also otherwise people are coming to me saying, can
you fix this for me? Can you like there's something wrong?
There's something What your body's saying is not necessarily wrong.
It's trying to communicate to you that there's something deeper
(11:56):
going on. And so we just believe that working with
that same wisdom you know that created that protective strategy,
if you can then make that feel safe, feel heard,
you're seen, then it will no longer need that protective strategy.
It's like walking down a dark aisle at night, for example,
like an alleyway, and there's you will want to be protected, yeah,
(12:18):
but then your body might get confused and treat every
street like it's a dark alleyway and it's not. So
it's about giving context and safety when it's required.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So, for example, with the session we just did, I'm
happy for you to kind of talk about it, what's
an example of something that you noticed in my body
and you know, gave it safety or spoke to the intelligence.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, well you were interesting because consciously you know a lot,
so rationally consciously you've already processed a lot. So that's
not problem. So to speak. Where there becomes a little
bit more of tension in your body is more from
the unconscious. So that's why I said to you things
like an mdr. Spinal energetics hypno therapy things where not
a talk therapy, you're traditional talk therapy. It's going to
(13:03):
be a more benefit for you because you mentally and
rationally understand a lot of this. But it's that other
ninety five percent that we want to work with that
can just be you know, holding you back and not consciously. Ye,
unconsciously and like I did say to you're pretty pretty good.
These are just fine tuning things that we could do
just to really get you on that next elevation. But
(13:25):
you would have felt me like pushing in certain areas
that represent certain things like that represented you know, your
mum and your experience with her, and then certain strategies
were developed from that moment in time that were still
held in the body. So by that release that we did,
it was basically telling the body like, hey, you no
longer need to hold that You're not that child in
that situation anymore. And me telling you that is not
(13:49):
going to work for you.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Now you already know that the body needs to.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Body needs to experience it, So the body needs to
feel safe, not be told it's safe. Yeah, especially for
you know, people who live in their mind their mentality,
like you, like a black and white thinker. You know,
they're my favorite kind of client to work with because
this is kind of like a strange thing to experience.
I'd expect you to be a little bit skeptical about
what I do, and I actually enjoy that because I
(14:14):
can't believe I work in this field, and I never
would have thought I did. And if I hadn't felt
it and changed my whole life around it, I wouldn't
have believed it. Lack a better term either, But hopefully
after this the session and you're experiencing it, and you're
feeling the energy moving through the body and the breath changing,
and the things that we found being you know, relatable,
and they're quite specific. They're not you know, generic terms
(14:36):
as such.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
No, well, even for context. For example, doctor Sarah laid
me down, was touching kind of what's like the collarbone,
the chest, and it was so painful where you were touching,
and I was like, oh my god, why is that
so painful? And like you said, it was like there
was something around my mum in my childhood and it
(14:57):
was you know, her not kind of accepting me as
a child and therefore like there was a lot of
rules and like not accepting my authentic self and like
she said that straight away and I was like yes.
And then you also you said about like my dad
and you're like, oh, is your dad an immigrant? I'm
like yes. And then how you said have you been
(15:18):
with your partner for a very long time? And guys,
doctor Sarah doesn't have me on Instagram, she doesn't know
me like you guys know me. Yes, we're we're friends now.
I'm not very good at social media. That's why you
have a team.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I have a team too. It's important. Yeah, And you're like,
have you been with your partner for very very long time?
And she said very specific things that I was like,
oh wow, yes, and even yeah, even stuff around She's like, oh,
I think you try and hide it. From you know people,
but you're actually you know, repressing and like certain things
(15:55):
that you guys would probably see my social media and
never believe. And she said in to me, and I'm like, yeah, yeah,
or you don't express yourself enough, and like I'm like, yeah, wow, no,
So straight away when right at the start of your session,
I was like, she's legit.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
But even I was shocked, like when I found that,
you know, because I was like, oh, you seem very expressive.
But that's what I mean, Like, that's why. It's not
about what I think. It's not what my mind is thinking.
It's what is the what is the body communicating, and
that's what the body communicated, and that's always a stronger
priority than what I believe you could be as a person,
you know. So it's about learning to listen to what
(16:31):
the body is saying. And it feels different, it stores different,
I think sometimes me even saying that it challenges the
perceptions and the beliefs about the work, and then to
actually feel it, like in the arm and feel the
release and feel you know, just the experience. It's it's
something that's far more I don't know, impactful than me
just talking about what spinal is because it's a lot
(16:52):
of words that I can use to describe it, but
it's not really a tangible way of really justifying what
the modality is.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, well you you have to experience it. It's like my
experience without other modality and then integrating it. I was like,
holy shit, Yeah, these are movements work, but they're mild.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, liked there's simple things like simple things, and even
during the session for something like an MDR or this,
you're not necessarily having these profound experiences, not during it,
which is what people think when they see social media
all the time. It's not necessarily true. The session still
unwinding for hours and days upon after, So your experience
(17:30):
could be two days from now you have a really
you know, maybe there's more clarity or something comes through.
Something comes through, and it takes time for the body
to integrate, you know, the new information and a new
way of being, just like through other somatic modalities too.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So what are kind of some like telltale signs, Like
I know we're all walking around carrying trauma, but what
are some telltale signs that someone is really storing trauma
in their body?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Probably ailments that kind of relate to the psychosomatic system,
So things like fibromyosia, that's quite related to trauma, you know.
In terms of our medical system, what they do is
they give you an antidepressant, and that seems to be
the only way that we can assist people currently in
the traditional system with pain disorders like fibromosia, which already
suggests that it's something to do with the emotional and
(18:22):
mental state. And I'm yet to find anyone who hasn't
gone through pretty intense trauma to then develop something like that.
The other thing would be you know, panic attacks, you know,
anxiety pain for no physical reason, gut issues. Us being
in that stress response all the time can really change
the way that our gut functions, headaches for no reason,
(18:45):
a lot of those things where you know, you go
to the doctor, your blood works fine, but you're experiencing
these symptoms. I think things like that is something where
people need to look at and go, Okay, what can
we do here? And it's it's almost a good sign
if it's not showing up in that way yet, because
it means you're at the stage where you can hopefully
prevent it too. But I do believe that we are
(19:06):
mouldible and things can change when we work on the
deeper layer of ourselves.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Interesting story. So my brother who's the co founder of
Naked Harvest, he went through the same work that I did.
And I remember ever since I was younger, he had
really bad headaches, Like we would go shopping and he'd
be like, I've got a headache. When I have to
get her money used to be like so annoying, ruin date.
I know, he's so weak, So it's my personality. And
(19:37):
even like he'd do a sport carnival, like one day
of like running and then like the next day you'd
have to have school, love and very interesting things where
like you know, he'd get all the tests done and
they were like he's healthy, he's fine. And even even
previously to him doing this kind of deeper work, he
would sleep on his pillar wrong and he'd be like
(19:57):
knocked out the whole day. And there's sort of and
then he did that work. He even and this is
kind of his story to tell, but I'll try and
articulate it, but he said, like it got to the
point where he kind of and it makes sense now
that you're saying it. He kind of spoke to his
pain and like was like I want from yeah, like
(20:20):
we don't actually like I don't actually need to have
a headache right now. And he will speak to his
pain and he's gotten to the point where he's learnt
the work from our practitioner and he doesn't get headaches
anymore and he doesn't get wiped out, and he's like
moved through it. And it's so interesting. Again, I think
it would be really interesting to him have a conversation
(20:40):
with you or even on the podcast. But this is
like something that's like his whole life. I remember his
whole life, and then now it's just something that's past
because he's like moved through it and he was able
to it. Sounds like so fuss fetch he was able
to talk to his pain and move through it.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, but it makes a lot of sense because he's
acknowledging why the pain is there, So it's not just.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
The sitting in it, not just taking a nerve and
not just like going straight to the pain killers, like
sitting with her and being like.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Him. And I think for him what's coming through is
there was some kind of bullying in school, so his
emotional capacity was so what happens is you should have
an innate intelligence at that age, for example, where you
can go do a running event at a sporting carnival
and then your body have the intelligence to be able
to recover without needing a whole day off the next
(21:31):
day at that age if he was ninety, would make sense,
you know what I mean. Yeah, So the context doesn't match,
which tells me that he had so much emotional things
going on that was building up his cup so much
that he's innate wisdom only had that much to work
with to kind of recover. There wasn't enough in his
cup to to recuperate. But it's also a big sign
(21:53):
that he's a sensitive persons, very sensitive person, and so
other people's nscitivities aren't as large, so they can take
in a lot more and you know, deal with more,
so to speak, and not just mentally, but also energetically,
and for other people that can literally drain them and
(22:14):
wipe them out. So he's probably sensitive. But I would
say there's there was something in school which was ordering.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
It's funny because you know how with my stuff it's
about like the mom.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, his stuff is the dad. Yeah, always the way,
I always the way, sweet boy. Yeah, it's a lot,
you know for us to deal with here, this is
this is not meant to be a simple life necessarily
were meant to go through these things. But you can
still have a beautiful life.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yes, you know, yeah, well that's even like the stuff
with like my thyroid. Now looking back, I was really
kind of living a life that wasn't sustainable, you know,
the quarters, all the stress. Like a lot of people
will look at my journey and be like, oh my god,
how how did you do so much when you're so young,
And I'm like, well, I developed an That's how I do.
(23:00):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
That makes sense?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, it makes complete sense.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Like I'm not shocked now I did because you were
running at a point of this drata isn't sustainable.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
And I was like that for so long that I
didn't know how to run it any other capacity. And
consciously it was like, oh, I even remember I used
to go to numerous practitioners and they'd be like, you
just need a stress less and you just need to
like relax, And I used to be like, it doesn't
matter how much I know. I'm like, this is the
(23:31):
most unhelpful thing I've ever experienced, And yet it wasn't
until I worked with the subconscious that I was able.
So all that was protection skills strategies that I had
learned that worked really well to get me certain things
in life.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
In the Western world, it work, yes, to be successful.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
No, yeah, none of them. Not not my poor body.
And I had to unlearn it, and I had to
again kind of talk to my body and be like,
would just be like, it's okay, we don't have to
always prove ourselves. We don't have to constantly succeed to
be worthy, and like all these kind of wounds I
had to work through.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
So true. And you said something really important, which was
when you weren't in alignment. So when you weren't listening,
when you weren't in alignment, that's when there's more friction
and more chaos. And like I was saying to you before,
I don't think you live necessarily a quiet life now,
but it's a definitely more aligned life, which is why
you don't get fatigued working at this level because it matches.
(24:33):
But it's when there's friction there that you won't have
as much to work with the body. The body is
telling you again, okay, something's not right. Here, and especially
with autoimmune diseases, you know, the body is not meant
to attack itself for lack of better words. With that,
the body is literally confuse and turns on itself to
get your attention. And that usually comes from other things
(24:56):
as well. But yeah, you're very aware mentally, so the
awareness isn't enough. No, you know a lot of people
that come to me are very intelligent, highly intelligent people
who know all this, like even this conversation. Yet I
know that I know I should stress less, but again
that's not actually solving you know what the experience is
for that individual telling someone that.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
No at all. Yeah, well it's actually very interesting because, yeah,
Cooper came into my office the other day and obviously
he was dealing with whatever he was going through, but
he goes, he goes, You're so relaxed, were spicy, Georgie,
And you know, he's talking about something in business and
he wants to like go to the next level and whatnot,
(25:39):
and I'm like, I'm just I'm not stressed about it,
Like I I know I will get there, like I'm
not stressed. And you can tell he was getting worked
up and probably going into old strategies and I just
was like Cooper, it's fine, and he's like, I don't
like this, Georgie, but you.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Won't letting him play out the story. No, I wasn't
wanted to.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I know, I wasn't letting hm him playing to the
pattern we usually play.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
In tea and especially as siblings, Like there would be
a pattern there that you both could have jumped on
the train for. So you were annoying him in that regard.
But I like that. But you've also developed enough in
a resilience now and knowing that things always work out, yes,
and stressing about it, you actually can't think clear. Like
when you're stressed, you're reacting instead of actually you know,
(26:22):
taking a moment to actually respond in a clear way,
in an appropriate way.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So, well, like my big mission kind of right now
is like I have kind of proved to myself that
I can do really incredible things at very fast paced
and you know, all the things. But I'm like, okay,
so my next mission is like I can do all that,
but not in these Yeah, not in the high cortisol,
(26:49):
in the hustle, in that masculine energy. And so my
whole journey at the moment is like very stepping into
the feminine, healing that and then showing people it's like, well,
you can do it this way too. I've experienced that way.
It's just I developed a lot of issues.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I think it's really goodful that you're touching on that
because for me as as a female entrepreneur as well,
I've had to be quite masculine to gain success in
a certain way as well. And I'm really at a
point now too where i'm just you know, I'm in
the flow of things as well, Like even coming up here,
this is the last minute kind of trip, but I
was like, Okay, I'll bring Pepper and Katy, you'll look
(27:27):
after it. Whereas before, if we got lost, for example,
before if that had to happen before we were gone,
where are we going, We're gonna be last at an
Whereas it's more enjoyable when it's not so stressful.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I can feel your energy and it's very much even
matching like what I'm trying to embody, and it's so
nice to be around. And I think about before and
the energy I would have been in, and it's like
it would have been very intense for other people. Oh
you don't work for me though, Georgie said, don't get
me wrong, like Sarah, you don't want any.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Georgie and I are both difficult to work with. But
that's okay, that's a whole nother podcast difficult. We just
we've got.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Sarah literally goes to my session. You're quite difficult to
work for. You have very high expectations and you want
everyone to do it like you. And I was like,
oh my gosh, she's so right.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
It takes one to know one, so I understand. But yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Girls laugh when they listen to this podcast, they'll be like,
oh my god, she's actually you know.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I think it's you wouldn't be where you are if
you didn't have those standards. So I get it. But
then it comes a point where you have to grow,
you have to evolve, and you have to bring people
in and you have to let go of things being perfect. Yeah,
and I think, yeah, every person that owns a business
gets to that point where they're like, Okay, I can't
literally do everything myself and.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Don't have the capacity. Yeah, no, I want to kind
of talk to you a little bit more about For example,
I also has been diagnosed so like p so o,
ass is this something that you have worked with with
clients and maybe also like you rually spoke about the
other one buts and like endometriosis.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Actually yeah, So for me, anything that's inflammatory in the
system is something I'm interested in. You did say its
very say you had inflammas yea perfect, that's just a
tendency to inflame. Yeah, that doesn't shock me. Knowing your
nature and knowing the way that you know your life
is and also what you've gone through in your life.
Inflammation is you know, related to grief and sadness as
well as uh, you know, just constant pushing, pushing, pushing.
(29:35):
So I have a really large interest in any kind
of inflammatory disease because anything that ends in itis, for example,
is known as inflammatory.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And it's like, well, why is this person so inflamed?
Like why can I sorry? Just to be specifically, what
is inflame to mean?
Speaker 2 (29:51):
It basically just means that the body is having a
hyper response to something. There's a lot of like rheumatoid arthritis,
for example, is an inflammatory disease, and Jimmy triosis and
things like that. There's things going on in the lining
and there has to be some kind of emotional component
because why do some people have it and some people don't.
(30:12):
The other interesting part is, you know you can get
you know, surgery and things like that, and then it
grows back, you know, So why is it growing back?
Things like crisis that have a large interest in exma,
even like gluten intolerance and things like that, even like
inflammatory bow disease IBS, things like that, gut syndromes where
(30:33):
there's no real reason what's going on. We can't find anything.
You just have an irritated gut. So anythink you eat,
you have to go on this diet for the rest
of your life. A lot of that. No one's been
asked again about their emotions, what they've gone through in
their life, what's been passed through their families. For example,
has there been sexual trauma in the family, has there
(30:54):
been emotional trauma in the family. What's happened in your
life that the body has decided that that era is
the area it could be matched with any disease. But
I have a special interest in inflammatory conditions and especially
autoimmune So like in my family, my mum is currently
in care from a really rare brain disease called adem
(31:14):
which is a cute demylination kephemyelitis, which is a bit
of a big mouthful, but it's basically an autoimmune condition
and an instantaneous MS. She was sixty eight when it happened, healthy, happy,
in the next minute was in a coma and she's
now brain damage as a result of this really rare disease.
I had MS in my family, I had Parkinson's in
my family. I had M and D in my family.
(31:35):
So there was also an extensive amount of trauma in
my mum's family, and so for me, it was like, well,
and they didn't work on it either. But you know,
that wasn't something my mum ever really spoke about or did.
I never remember my mum doing any of the things
that we are doing. So for me, I wanted to
I didn't want that to happen to me. And I
(31:56):
do believe that we have impact. What we do in
this life does have impact, working with our emotions and
what we've gone through. If we don't, it will catch
up with us later. And you know, we are all
designed to eventually leave this planet. That's okay, But I
think there's things that we can do that aren't necessarily
you know, genetic in the line, but nurtured through the line.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah, so someone does have, like you said, in inflammatory Yeah, case,
what's your sort of recommendations? What are the steps? Yeah,
well you know, my lawyer, what do we do?
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, I get it. There's no point having the information
without knowing what to do with it.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
So the reason I love spinal energetics is that it
changes the nervous system response. So it takes you out
of that sympathetic state, which is that cartersol driven state,
that fight or flight state, and into a parasympathetic state.
So you can't have that kind of you can.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Rest and recover. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
So you can't have that kind of inflammation going on
if you are in your parasympathetic state at times. You
can only be in one at a moment in time
as well, so if you're stressed, you're not in parasympathetic,
you can only be in one.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
So the way that I've heard someone explain this to me,
which was really helpful, was he was saying, like, you know,
if you've had a lot of traumas and certain coping,
then you implant coping mechanisms and like whatnot. And he
explained it like it feels like there's seventeen tigers around you,
and like you know, in the wild, we see a tiger,
we're stressed. And so unless you're resolving these traumas and
(33:26):
working through them, you're constantly going to be in a
state of survival. So if a tiger is chasing you,
you're not digesting food, you're not healing, you're not resting.
And so that just made so much sense to me.
And so his whole thing is like he was like,
so we need to reduce the tigers and then you
will be in a state. And he's like, you're you know,
(33:48):
Hashimotos will heal itself because your body knows how to
do it, It created it, it knows how to resolve it.
But you need to be in an environment where you're
not in survival, you're not stress rest all the time.
And like you said, for me, consciously, I know all
the things. And it's like if you consciously said that
to me, I'm like cool, But it's.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
How do I yea feel that? How do I embody that?
Speaker 1 (34:12):
How do I embody? And that's why you're saying, like
we need to work with an energetic field because it's
not a conscious talk therapy situation.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
No, no, Otherwise, you know, you could do thirty talk
therapy sessions about the tigers, and it's not especially for you.
It's not going to change your physiology. So Peter Levine,
he's a Semitic therapist, and he spoke a lot about this.
He has a book called Waking the Tiger. Yeah, it's
really really interesting. What I see a lot is exactly
what you know, You're other practitioner was saying. But and
(34:39):
emails the tiger instead, or you know, not getting a
cart spots the tiger instead, or your partner not being
twenty minutes late is the tiger instead. It's an accumulation,
So we don't respond in a way that's necessarily relatable
to that one event. All of a sudden, it's it's
an accumulation of every other thing that's ever gone wrong,
(35:00):
and you explode at that point. And that's just because
we're in this constant, constant stress state. And the Western
world praises people in that state. What we deem successful.
A lot of people don't know how to do in
a state of flow. So you can get all these
amazing things and not necessarily have to grind yourself like
to death to do it. It doesn't mean that it's simple.
(35:20):
It's not. You still have to work hard. I do
believe that, but not to the point where you're going
to have to hurt yourself to get it, or you know,
experience pain. Like what's the point of having everything if
you wake up every day in pain? Like your health
is is everything? Yeah, unfortunately we are all pretty stressed
in the in the West. If you go to somewhere
(35:42):
like you know, so I love traveling because you learn
so much from different cultures. But if you go somewhere
like you know, Southeast Asia or India or whatever, they're
they're happy people, even amongst the chaos. I remember seeing,
you know, Buddhists and being like, why are they so happy?
And we're so miserable And they're not having that friction
against life as much as we are. That's that's what
(36:04):
got me interested in this work. Like, you know, you
have to have your own trauma story to be interested
into this work. So obviously that's where it's come from.
But who are you without identifying with it? And who
do you want to be because of it? And despite
of it? And I like to help people return back
to their true self instead of being this hijacked version
(36:26):
of them and what's happened to them?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
And so when you work with someone, obviously you do
one on one sessions and do you also do oh
you don't do just for me? I do feel very
so thank you. Obviously you work with people and you
teach them this work. Yeah, what's the kind of you know,
like process of how you work with people.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
That's how it all started. I started in clinic and
for example, you know, rubbing out a sow muscle. I
would come back next week. So I wasn't working with
the intelligence. I was almost trying to override the intelligence
by smoothing it out, telling it what to do, and
then the next week would be back. Or I would
work on, say like a tension pattern in the neck,
and I would go just work on the neck, thinking
(37:16):
if I wanted to help someone's neck, I had to
work purely on their neck. They felt good for three days,
four days, next minute it's back again. So why is
it coming back Because we're not working with the actual
intelligence that created that tension. So once I started working
with energy and in the field, people weren't experiencing these
symptoms coming back again straight away. Like if anything like
(37:37):
maybe once a year, and then when we worked at
that again, it moved and shifted so much quicker again,
because you're working with the actual part of you that
created it, rather than trying to fight it, do you
know what I mean? Yeah, And we work in the
areas of ease. So let's say, for example, your right
neck is super tight. Just as an example. What we
do is we look for the areas that are working well.
(37:59):
We then work more with those, and then that shares
that richness to the other areas that are more energy poor,
for example, like the Robin hoods of of energy. Like,
here's richness, we can send that to the area of
that's not working as well. Again, that even changes the
perspective of the client, like instead of thinking what's wrong
with them? And how do I fix it? How can
(38:21):
I listen to the body and communicate it and work
with the intelligence to have this person feel safer and
more loved as a person. That's our main goal. Yeah, Like,
if I'm looking at what's wrong with you?
Speaker 1 (38:34):
What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, that's a very different lens. We have that enough,
you know. And so my goal isn't to fix anyone.
I don't believe anyone needs to be fixed. I believe,
like for example, with your thyroid, Yes, that's communication, but
if we didn't listen to it, you might have kept
living life that way.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Well yeah, and it was completely out of the linement.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, so let's bring you back into that and not
just through conscious words, but through actual experiential feeling of
feeling who you really are and feeling like what is
you and what isn't you? So then you can you know,
flow far more easier of even decision making. No, that
is a line with me though, That isn't who are
you as a person. It's like everything that really matters
(39:18):
you feel it on the table, almost like a really
good meditation or you know sometimes even you know people
are really into yoga, they get this sense of connecting
with themselves and the bigger picture and all that noise
gets not so loud.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Someone asked me the other day, like, what's like a
really peaceful moment you've had recently? And straight away I thought, oh,
six months ago when I did a yin yoga class.
It's like I've never felt so And then I was like,
oh my god, that was six months ago. What am
I doing?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Why?
Speaker 1 (39:51):
And this is sorry, this is a random question, why
do you think we because a lot of us we
for example, someone like me, who has access to people
like you, who does have resources, who does have time
and money. Why do you think we don't gravitate towards
(40:11):
the things that can distress us, that can help our body,
that can talk to our intelligence, and it takes to
the point of us getting sick to then go and
figure out and go on this big journey like why
do you think we don't go, Oh, well, I'm just
going to do a yin class weekly.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Very good question for me. Change is hard, so we
may not want to change. Yeah, Number one, so a
lot of us don't change until we have to. Number two,
we don't really want to listen to what the body
has to say. We might tell us something we don't
really want to hear, so we avoid that moment and
(40:49):
that quiet time with ourselves and having to listen to
We might have to make some decisions we don't want
to make, or you know, there might have to be
some changes made. So I think that they're kind of
a lot of the reasons. Another reason might be self
sabotage or you know, I don't deserve to feel like
that I don't deserve to feel peaceful. I only know
this feeling of being stressed all the time. So it
(41:10):
can be, you know, just being familiar with an environment
that feels.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Stressful creatures of comfort, aren't we Well.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah, we'll always choose, you know, what feels familiar rather
than even what's best for us. You know, there's a
study done makes me say, because I love dogs, but
there was a study done on doggies where they're in
a cage and they would get electrocuted every time they
tried to leave the cage. And then they just left
the doors open and they no longer electrocuted them, and
(41:38):
not one dog left. I know, you don't have to
put this in. I love animals, by the way, so
it makes me really sad too. Would never get past
these days. But what we can learn from that is
we're not really much different. We're in these cages of
these expectations of what society says we should be, shouldn't
be what our chraunmeries can be that you know, that
(42:00):
electrocution and then when we have the chance to free
ourselves from it, even though that's something we deeply deeply
want and yearn for, the safety the survival still can
be larger, and that is not a world I want
to live in. I want to live in with people
who who have managed to have that courage to step
out even when it hurts.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
There's a really great quote that sums that up, and
it's like, you'll always pick a familiar hell over an
unfamiliar heaven. Hmm. That's what we're kind of trained to do.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
And again, it's not a conscious choice. No one would
consciously want to stay in the cage.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
No, and that's why we need to work with a subconscious.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yes, it is, and that's why we get such you
know amazing. You know, people once they have a session,
they tell everyone about it. And the reason they tell
everyone about it is because there's a certain like wanting
to share this gift with people, the of being able
to connect back to yourself. But again, people like you
were saying about the inn, sometimes avoid trying this because
it's like, well, I don't know what could come up,
(42:59):
I don't know what I might feel. There's a reason
there's this feeling of oh, because you know, what will
what will I have to do?
Speaker 1 (43:10):
I have a friend who has had someone really close
to them pass away. You know, a couple of years ago,
and they are very intelligent, they're very spiritual, but they
said it's like too hard. I can't go to it
and process it. It's like I know I should, and
I know it's what I need to do, but it's
like the thought of it, like it's too crippling. Hearing
(43:33):
that breaks my heart because you know, this person's even
conscious and they like it's too hard. So you can
imagine someone who isn't aware of this work, who's not
very conscious the sort of patterns and the sort of
health issues that would be happening because they refuse to,
you know, work through that trauma.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
And grief is hard. You know, grief is like, out
of everything I've ever experienced, grief has been the hardest
thing I've experienced. But what we can do with spinal
which is what I love about it as well, is yes,
we're working with the experiences, but it doesn't come up
while you're on the table, so you won't get specific
things about like you know what your trauma is specifically
(44:14):
as such, you'll just feel this ease in your body
or this movement in your body, so it's not rehashing
trauma as such.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
You know, I didn't have any specific trauma came up, Like,
there was a lot of thoughts and feelings, and I
felt like I went through a lot of waves of
like really fast thoughts and then like a letdown and
then fast.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Thoughts should feel kind of like yeah, a ride.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Yeah, that's exactly what I felt through your emotional states
and through states of consciousness.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
But I understand why people find it challenging. But then
you know what's more challenging living a life like that
in pain forever. And grief is such a beautiful thing too,
Like it means you love someone you know, and you're
not going to get to that straight away, and maybe
she's just not ready yet.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah you know.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Yeah, Like I mean, every day I miss a lot
of things, but it's also because they meant something to me.
Some people don't get to have.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
That on the scale of emotions. If you can feel
the depths of grief and sadness and disappointment, it's because
you can also feel the highs, And it's like, what
a beautiful thing, because without feeling this, you're never going
to feel that, And what a sad life to just
stay in the middle and feel nothing. Yeah, Oh that's
(45:30):
why you and I have such interesting experiences in life
though too.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
They're very drastically over here to hear. But that's what
you said makes perfect sense. You can't have these amazingly
beautiful life experiences that are almost unheard of for most
people's life, Yeah, and then expect the other end of
the spectrum to not be in existence as well. It's
got to balance out somewhere. There's two sides to every coin,
(45:54):
you know, and you wouldn't know the true beauty of
it if you hadn't known the true hell of it.
So that's why. Also, I think you're calmer and got
more resilience because you're just like, well, I've been there,
I've got myself out of the worst of the worst,
so I can do it again if I have to.
So there's a sense of calm which comes from that
learning about yourself. I know.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Doctor Sarah Guys did say that I'm due for hard life.
So not a hard life, but two trict life, an
intricate life, And that's no, that's very much here. And
I think even though on my social media obviously a
lot of people would see the highlights, they would see
the life I live, what I've created, but what they
don't see is the depths that I've gone to in
(46:37):
order to be able to be someone that creates that.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Yeah, well we don't tend to film that bit, no
people Ane is interested in watching that sometimes. But that's
why for me, like whenever I see someone living, you know,
something that I inspire to live by as well, I
just know that that didn't come easy for that person.
There's just you know, even overnight success doesn't exist, you.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Know, it doesn't exist, does not not a thing, not
a thing.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
For me, I find Australia culture quite different in that way.
You know, if you're really successful, it's it's an interesting
thing that shows up for people that you know, where
as opposed to say someone like America or that.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
We have the tall poppies.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah we really do, We really do. Yeah, because you're
from from born Australian and just the difference in attitude
is yeah, you know, it's wild. It is wild when
you really value and understand that, like how incredible that
someone can create that for themselves when like odds are
against them. Yeah, like be inspired by it.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yes, But also that's what I kind of talk to
people about when they do, you know, say like I'm
going through it's really bad hardship or you know, express
how you know, hurt their feelings. Something I say is,
you know every inspiring person that is, you know the
Tony Robbins that all those people their background, like you
hear about it and you're like, oh my god, that's
(47:57):
it's so much. And so I try and instilling them
that it's like, yes, this is hard at the moment,
but your mess is your message, and this is something
that you'll use and you will carry if you choose to.
So it's like, yes, we can go through these really
dark and hard times, but it is molding us into
the motion you know, credible best us, higher self us,
(48:21):
and how important because other ways we cannot become that
person without those experiences. Like if just everything went right,
you had no hardships or anything like that, you you
wouldn't know how to relate to people, You wouldn't know
how to express yourself, you wouldn't know how to feel
it just it wouldn't Really That's why you see a
(48:42):
lot of you know, maybe like celebrity children who get
born into a certain sort of privilege who end up
like doing drugs and going off the rails because they
they're like, I want to feel something. They've never had
to struggle. They create their own struggle.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah. I couldn't think of anything worse than being given
and absolutely everything and anything. That's why when people become famous,
for example, it's so challenging for them because it's like
they have access to anything and everything, and then what's
life about? Then? You know, that's why even celebrity culture
is not as easy as people.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Think it is not I would hate.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
It's really weird how many people want to be absolutely
not but you're.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Not being able to go to the grocery store or
just they have really simple privacies.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
I like that I've had a life that's shaped me
in that way. I think it's made me understand people more,
like you said, but not just from like the words
of it, but truly, like you can look at someone
and know when they've been through like real pain. And
that's why a lot of the time, like traditional you know,
therapy sessions may not work because the person's listening to you,
but you're like, you don't know what I'm talking about.
(49:49):
You've read this in a book, but you haven't experienced it.
So when someone has experienced it, there's a knowing between
the two and two people, there's an intelligence that goes,
this person has been to that place and pick themselves
back up again. You know, I probably wouldn't be in
this field of work and do well at it necessarily
if I hadn't had that experience. I couldn't imagine having
(50:12):
a perfect life and being able to work in this field. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Even kind of what we spoke about off air, you
can see that that has all your hardships and everything
it has gone through has built this current.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Usually birthed it. You know, the hardest time of my
life burst it. I had to do something. It was
like all this stuff had happened and I had to
do something with it, and if I didn't do something
with it, it was just gonna overtew me. Yeah, Like I
was just so I had to do something and something
bigger than myself, you know, to help, because if it
(50:46):
was just about me, then that wouldn't be enough either.
And you've done that as well. People say like, oh,
this is your modality and things like that. I don't
necessarily believe that. I believe that I've that's something you
fostered out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And a lot of what
I talk about is not new, just a different way
of expressing it.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
You know, I do a lot of mindset work with
my community, and you know, talk about manifestation and spiritual principles,
and you know, people ask, oh, you know, should I
do your course? Should I join you know, the community,
And I kind of explained to them, I'm like, well,
when you listen to me, does it activate you? Do
you feel something? Because I'm going to be for certain
(51:22):
people and I'll say something to someone and it will
be AHA moment and it will be like life change.
But there will be other people that there's nothing. And
so I love that you said that because it's like
there will be certain people with you that it's like
life changing.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
This is it.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
This is the thing in saying that though you have
literally created a movement, So do not doubt only movement.
You know, yes, tools too, Yes, don't downplay your incrediblen.
What do you feel like is next for spinal energetics?
Speaker 2 (51:53):
You know what? I actually don't know. I've never been
a planner. Scared this is scary?
Speaker 1 (51:57):
No, yeah, absolutely, I never planned this first place.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
So I kind of just go with what I feel.
You know, if you had told me that i'd be
out of practice, you know. Two years ago, i'd be
like no, no, no, no, because I love working with clients.
But now I'm really passionate about teaching. Currently, We've got
six hundred or so practitioners around the world, and I've
taught every single one of them. I'm really proud of
the integrity of the medality and I want to expand it,
(52:21):
but not at the cost of the reverence of the work.
So I'm kind of in that period now, like how
do I figure out it? But not losing to the
heart of it too. So that's kind of where my
mind is at the moment. But I love my life
is pretty much coming and doing things like this now,
and just I want to get as many people hearing
about it so that they aren't missing out on something
(52:45):
that could really assist them because it changed my life.
I know it's anecdotal, but I've seen it change so
many people's lives. And you know, if even one person
hears this and goes and tries it and has happiness
and joy and hope in their life again, then that's
just I've done my job. You've done it, Yeah done,
Yeah done?
Speaker 1 (53:02):
So how can someone go and get around the work experience.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
It give us all the plugs well, even online. So
if you hadn't told me it worked online, would not
have believed you. But I started doing work online in
COVID and it worked, and I was like, this is crazy.
And again we'll get into this. Tony robbins that she
has a result experiment on it. He's just released papers
on his online upw and the physiological changes you get
from mirror neurons and things like that. So there's actual
(53:28):
science that show that online is just as powerful as
in person. There's no difference.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
That makes complete sense to me though, because if you
think about social media and the movement of social media,
of TikTok of you know what I mean, Like, there
has to be somethin in it, otherwise it would not
make sense.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
I think even with spunk, people can feel it the video.
That's why people either love it or hate it, because
this is this like it provokes.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
I loved it, touch me on.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
People provoked something so I can't remember what I was saying,
but there's something around that. So online you can get
a spinaline, so people do online sessions in person. We've
got a beautiful studio in Richmond, which is our headquarters
where the practitioners work closer with me, so they're probably
the most experience in terms of time with me. Otherwise,
we've got practitioners all over the world. We've got a
(54:15):
little map where you can type in where you're from
and see who your closest person is if you prefer
in person.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Is anyone on the Gold Coast?
Speaker 2 (54:22):
There is, there is people on the Gold Coast.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
I'm not allowed to say who I look favorite like,
I'm absolutely there's I think three or four on the
Goldie Cool.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
Yeah, amazing. Well, we'll make sure we link everything in
the show notes. But thank you so much for coming
on the show. Thank you so much for my private
such I feel so special, guys. I know it was
honestly incredible, and like you said, I've dipped my toe
into this work, so I one hundred percent believe in it.
And like you said, for me, it honestly saved my
(54:54):
health to work with my subconscious to put my throat
into remissions. So yeah, thank you so much for explaining
for your time, for being here with us. We really
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Thank you for sharing your story of that as well.
I think it's always people when they hear someone like
yourself having experienced something like that and then working with
a modality like this and it changing you. I think
we'll definitely get some people who maybe wouldn't necessarily look
into something like this to look into it.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
So thank you for helping me spread the word so welcome.
You think I'm closed off? Do you think I repress
sometimes conjectually? Thank you so much, Sarah,
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