July 7, 2024 • 46 mins
Amy’s family comes together for the first time since the inquest into her death. Her daughters, who were almost 4 and 6 when their mum died, pay tribute to their mum and discuss what they want to happen now.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We
urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on
thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at
lifeline dot org dot au. A twenty four year old
(00:29):
devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationship as a
bags pack car running her daughters strapped into the backseat.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Mom told me that she needed to go back inside
to grab something.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Panic.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I Amy is dead, Sir, I am his dead?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Eight Confusion World about five minutes.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Say sit not to suicide.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 6 (00:58):
This is emersing.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy?
Speaker 5 (01:06):
The Truth About Amy?
Speaker 6 (01:15):
Episode three?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I am Liam Bartlett.
Speaker 7 (01:22):
And I'm Alison Sandy.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
It's been three years since Anna has seen her sister
Nancy and her Nieces. It's a warm sunny day in Perth,
the Swan River sparkling. Only a few clouds can be
seen on the horizon. We take two cars, the camera
crew and me in one, Anna and Allison in the other.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
Good to catch up with him.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Anna says how excited she is about seeing everyone again.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Nice to you to make.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
That Before leaving she rings Nancy to let her know
they're on the way.
Speaker 6 (02:04):
Nancy sounded a little bit of horse this morning.
Speaker 8 (02:07):
Yeah, so that generally happens to her voice when she
starts to get nervous and anxious about things, And generally
that's all to do with Amy. She's had this condition
for ten years now, I guess.
Speaker 7 (02:20):
So that's why you had to take up the plan
for Amy, right, because it's just really too hard for
Nancy with everything and having to look after the kids
one hundred.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
She was devastated when this happened.
Speaker 8 (02:37):
It tore Nancy's world apart, and it devastated her as
a point and it still does to this day. And
I remember how angry I was, not just upset about
losing Amy, but how angry I was about how we
lost her and the way the police would treat Amy.
(03:01):
I was angry, and I remember going back to Sydney
and I'd be contacting Nancy and asking her to contact people.
Have you called this person, have you asked this question?
Have the police got back to you? Did the coroner
say anything? And I didn't realize at first that I
(03:24):
was pushing a broken person to do something they were
not capable of.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
And one day it just hit.
Speaker 8 (03:31):
Me, It just clicked if I had a conversation with her,
and I realized that she can't do this, and it's
me that's thinking of all these things to do, you know,
people to contact, people.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
To speak to, the questions to ask.
Speaker 8 (03:45):
And we had a conversation one day and I said
to her, how about you focus on looking after Amy's
children and protecting them.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
And I'll focus on Amy. And we agreed that's what
we'd do.
Speaker 7 (04:00):
Tell me you've organized a bit of a surprise meeting
today with for Larry, the police officer who was at
the scene, to come and meet Nancy. Now Nancy has
met him, but she doesn't remember.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Right, that's correct.
Speaker 8 (04:14):
So I didn't know this until I spoke to Larry.
Speaker 9 (04:21):
He was one of the officers that I saw Nancy,
I believe, down at the bottom gate when she first
arrived at the house after Amy died, and then he
and another police officer went to Nancy's home to let
her know.
Speaker 8 (04:40):
That the detectives had deemed Amy's death suicide. Nancy can't
remember that when you receive information like that and you
get told something is horrific as what she got told
that night I mean, Amy was the love of a life,
and when you get told something like that, your world
falls apart. How do you remember things that have said?
(05:03):
How do you remember? You know, just details like remembering
the person that told you that. It is so much
of that night that is such a blur to her.
She doesn't remember the conversation that she and I had
the very next morning when she told me that the
police had been in touch with her and told her
(05:24):
that Amy's death was a suicide.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
She doesn't remember that phone call to me.
Speaker 8 (05:29):
She doesn't remember that night when Amy died, the conversation
that she and I had on that phone, But I
remember it because it was devastating to me and it
was painful. I won't forget it. But it was so
much for her being Amy's mum, that a lot of
it is a blur. So she doesn't remember meeting Larry
(05:49):
that night. So coming here to Perth, I thought I'd
reach out to Larry and see if he'd be willing
to come to Nancy's place and meet her the first time.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Well, for her it's like.
Speaker 8 (06:03):
Meeting him for the first time because she doesn't remember,
and for me, I'd like to see him again as well,
because the only time I've ever met Larry was in
the courtroom when he gave evidence, and it was so brief.
He got up and he gave his evidence, and after
he gave the evidence, he came down and he shook
(06:25):
the hands of people who were there for Amy. And
when he got to me, I just said to him,
thank you, and he just leant down and hugged me,
just gave me a hug, and I could see the
pain on his face.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
And I think it's really.
Speaker 8 (06:39):
Important that Nancy meets him as well, because I think,
you know, she would like to thank him for giving
his honest recollection of that night.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Today's going to be hard for Nancy, though, isn't it.
Speaker 8 (06:53):
It will be, I think, although it's although I maybe
organize this surprise her to meet Larry, I think also
it will probably hit a nerve as well, because once
she realizes who he is, I think, you know, it'll
be emotional for her. But I think she'll be okay
because we'll be together. So that's what makes it okay.
Speaker 6 (07:15):
You are for each other what the other isn't I guess,
you know what.
Speaker 8 (07:20):
It's funny to say that because when Nancy and I
had that conversation years ago, and I said to her,
you look after Amy's children and I'll look after Amy.
I said to her, you know what it's like being
one person, but we're splitting ourselves in half. That's exactly
what I said to her. She's never been the same
to her.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
No, she hasn't, not at all. No.
Speaker 8 (07:42):
But thank God for Amy's children. You know, they've kept
her going. They have been her focus. And it's been
very hard for her because you know, at the beginning,
you're talking about two little girls who have just lost
their mum, and Nancy.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Had to hold herself together.
Speaker 8 (08:03):
You know, so many times when Nancy wanted to, I
guess break down or cry or whatever, she'd have to
hold that because she had to be strong for those children.
And those children seeing Nancy upset all the time isn't
good for them.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
You know, they love their Nan.
Speaker 8 (08:19):
I remember when not long after Amy passed and Nancy
had to get back to some sort of normality and
she was working full time, and she had the kids
living with us, and she went back to work.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
And Nancy would obviously she stays.
Speaker 8 (08:36):
In regular contact with me, and she'd tell me how
if she was home late the girls would be very
upset and they'd be at the window looking out the window,
waiting for her. And she said, you know, they just
really want me home and they get upset if I'm late.
And I had to point it out to me and
I said, Nancy, they're scared you're not coming home. I said,
I have to think about it. Their mum was there one
(08:59):
minute and the next minute, their mum's gone. Now they're
with you, and they live with you. And if you
say you're going to be home at three o'clock or
four o'clock and you're not there, I said, what do
you think goes through their minds? I said, of course
they're looking at that window waiting for you because they've
lost their mum.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
They don't need to lose their nan. It's awful, Thank
you man.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
As always, not's just so appreciative for you. You speak
with your honey.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
Yeah, I'm about to cry. I just hate it.
Speaker 6 (09:32):
Like day, it's going to be good. No, it will
beat therapy.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
I can't wait to see them.
Speaker 8 (09:40):
But when I think back about things like that, Alison,
like those little girls you know, worrying about.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
Nuds you're not coming home. They're just babies. They're just little.
Speaker 10 (09:51):
Girls and Amy Amy that Amy's babies and she should
be here. Her life was cut short.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Fighting for Amy has taken its toll on Anna and
the rest of the family, but they want their story toll.
They find strength in each other, but sometimes it does
feel very lonely. When we arrive, only Nancy comes to
the front door. Amy's daughters and friends know that we
(10:24):
the journalists and camera crew are turning up, but they
don't know Anna is with us. Nancy takes us through
the house to where they're all waiting in the backyard
entertainment area. When they see Anna, Hello, Tay and Neya
immediately jump up excitedly and give her a big hope.
Speaker 11 (10:52):
It's just so much so when you're moving to Sydney.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Oh my god, Oh.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Miss your girls so much.
Speaker 12 (11:19):
You don't believe that it's me.
Speaker 8 (11:25):
Yeah, cry, I'm not a big fan praying either.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Anna also enjoys a hug with her sister Nancy, who
she hasn't seen for three years.
Speaker 12 (11:34):
Oh wow, the cool looks goodness.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
He doesn't.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Also at the reunion are Amy's best friends Natasha Selsa,
who she used to live with, and Aaron Gower, who
Amy met at high school.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I said, I wasn't.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Coming back here to your business, mean in Sydney at
this time. Be back to your visit me, Tash.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
You.
Speaker 7 (12:13):
Like Amy. Nancy was a young mum. Amy Lee Wensley
was born on eleventh of February nineteen ninety at Nepean
Hospital in New South Wales to Nancy and John Wensley.
Amy and her parents lived with John's mother, who was
(12:35):
so excited about the birth of her first grandchild. Amy
would grow up to form a very close bond with
her grandmother, whom she would go on to affectionately call Marzy.
Marzy adored Amy and she would always fuss over her granddaughter.
(12:57):
When Amy was aged about three, Nancy and John decided
to move to Ballina, where Amy's sister Sam was born.
Amy was upset Sam was not a boy and asked
her mum to take Sam back to the hospital and
bring home a boy. Despite wanting a brother, Amy adored
(13:19):
having a little sister. A few years later, they moved
back to Sydney to be closer to family. Marzie and
her auntie Anna were thrilled to have them return and
to be closer to the children. Three years later, Amy
became a big sister again to Kelly. Amy was delighted
(13:41):
and spent much of a time fussing over her little sisters,
always looking after and playing with them. For a short while,
Amy attended Newtown Primary School and enrolled at Brent Street
Dance Studio, where she took part in the End of
Yew dance performance. She loved dancing and going to rehearsals.
(14:07):
Amy's parents separated and Nancy was looking to start a
new life elsewhere. Nancy and her three daughters moved to Perth,
where her brother was living with his family. Amy settled
him well to her new life and made new friends
in high school. It's where she met Aaron Gower. Amy
(14:28):
continued to include her sisters in everything. They shared a
close bond until the day.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
She died too.
Speaker 8 (14:41):
When Amy died, they aged just seventeen and twenty and
the girls are very close. When they were growing up,
Amy used to be like a little mum to them.
She used to fuss over them and play with them
and make sure they're okay and make sure they weren't misbehaving.
She was a proper little and as they got a
(15:01):
little bit older became teenagers, Amy used to do things
with her friends, and sometimes she'd take her sisters along
with her. That's how close they were. And when Amy
passed away, her sisters were so devastated and they still
are at the loss of their big sister and not
having her around anymore.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
They missed terribly.
Speaker 7 (15:23):
After Amy died, Kelly received a Facebook message from David Simmons' aunt,
Chrissy Bull, who said.
Speaker 13 (15:30):
I will never ever believe that she took her own
life because that was not what Amy would ever do. Kelly,
all I can say to you is that Amy was
a big part of our family too.
Speaker 8 (15:42):
It shows that it's not just our family and friends
who who believe that Amy did not take her life.
There's clearly members of David's own family who feel the
same way or think the same way and don't believe
that Amy took her life either.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
And that says a lot. I think that speaks volumes.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
Then two weeks later, she sent another message to Amy's
best friend Erin, saying this, I.
Speaker 13 (16:09):
Hope you don't take this the wrong way, but my
family and I are having a private service for Amy.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
Chrissy complains they weren't invited to Amy's official funeral.
Speaker 13 (16:19):
That is the reason my family wasn't at Amy's funeral.
We weren't told nothing at all. Nancy had no intention
whatsoever to let Tay's great grandparents even know. We're all
drained by what's gone on. I'm not letting off steam
to you by any means whatsoever. I just know that
this isn't the way Amy would have wanted. This family
(16:42):
aren't even allowed to see the girls. Just a few
heads up on why my family's hurting, Aaron replies.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
What does this have to do with me?
Speaker 13 (16:50):
Just let you know we cared for your bestie two.
Speaker 8 (16:53):
I understand exactly why her family is feeling the way
they are.
Speaker 13 (16:56):
I was always the one to help her out. I
know what you're saying me, I do. May she be
resting in peace and the truth come out in the end.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
I love to come as it means.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, Amy's loved ones settle into conversation, enjoy a game poul,
and make the most of their special but limited time together.
And I can't believe how much her daughters have grown,
both physically and emotionally.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Surprise.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
Yeah, just a little, just a little.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I don't worry.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
I'm nearly taller than everyone here.
Speaker 14 (17:44):
Except except you should take up to me, be tall,
hopefully look at you.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
Oh my god, will will sit down? It's making me
a drink. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I mean she's that's okay.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
So anyone can.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Tell me anything that's going It's got the braces. How's
that going on?
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
I just took them out because I can't speak with them.
It's like my mouth closed like this.
Speaker 8 (18:16):
How much longer you do?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I've had them for like two years and a bit now,
but they only said I was meant to have them
for like only a year because my teeth weren't that bad.
Speaker 8 (18:25):
They weren't that bad.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And I have a dent disappointment, I think on Wednesday,
and then yeah.
Speaker 15 (18:32):
You'll find out then hopefully find out if I get
the mouths and you're just gonna have beautiful teeth.
Speaker 12 (18:37):
Yeah, and you're missing what's going on.
Speaker 6 (18:40):
Not much is growing one at the moment.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
For me, it's what year are you in now?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I'm in year nine and you're liking school?
Speaker 14 (18:49):
Yeah, it's all right, nothing too interesting in the moment.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
But education is important.
Speaker 12 (18:56):
So when Amy was a little girl, when your mum
was little, she always just to get upset when she
had to go home to Nan. She wanted to stay
with me, and she was sitting in the car and
I used to do this to her.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Anna points to her eye, her heart, then to Tay
and Naya, I love you.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
And then she'd do this to me.
Speaker 8 (19:22):
She'd point to her eye, point to her heart, point
to me, and then hold up two fingers to say,
I love you too.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
And that's why you two do it, because your mum
taught you to do it.
Speaker 15 (19:33):
Yeah, what was the other thing your mum taught you that?
Speaker 5 (19:36):
I taught her?
Speaker 8 (19:38):
There was something and I used to tell her something,
and she taught you to that. Oh about sisters.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
That's exactly what because it's true, right, that's true.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Right before we know it, over an hour has passed.
Larry is due to arrive any minute.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Oh, Nancy, Larry, there are you guaranteed. I'm really sorry.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Buddy's been lingering. Oh man, I was right. I want
to say you because I never got to tell you
after the inquest. Thank you so much, been there and
(20:39):
doing all this, doing all this with us.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
It's something I have to do. I have to see
the job, even though I'm not a pretty much.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Thank you so much. You would you like to come
and meet the girls. I means girls.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yes. Nancy goes on to show Larry a shelf where
pictures of Amy and her daughters are carefully placed, as
well as a candle they light on the anniversary of
her death. Before then Taynya and Larry meet for the
(21:19):
first time.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
But this is Larry, this is yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You're the tallest and the I picked that up straight away.
I should have been a detective.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
We wish, yes, actually we wish.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
It's a good surprise.
Speaker 15 (21:41):
Next stop it so the girls just asking me his
surprise visitor and we just told him that you're the
police officer.
Speaker 12 (21:52):
It turned up the first one to turn up and
tried to help their mom.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
And I made a pledge that night to Amy. I
stayed in the room with the farewell and I made
a pledge that I said, we were going to get
to the bottom of this.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
We'll get to the bottom of this.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Everyone here is united in their grief. Emotions are raw,
but they're here for one reason, and I hope that
the truth about Amy will finally be realized. Nancy tells
me how the passing of time has not made it
any easier.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I have trouble sleeping at night. Oh, I can be
so tired and I'll go to bed and something will
just trickle me in, I sends. I closed my eyes.
I go back to that night, that phone call. I
raung her when I got home from work, hearing is
hearing names voice, hysterical crying, And.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
In that phone call, you said, what come here? Come
come home?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Kiss shit? You want the girls? Come here? I don't
care if you stay here for a month. Here whatever,
get here now.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
She fully agree with you. Did you feel any sort
of pushback?
Speaker 3 (23:12):
No, Yes, mum, I'll be there soon. He said, Do
you want me to come get here? She said no,
because she knew if I would have went out there,
there would have been a big argument with David and
myself and son. I was there soon, so you're sure
I'll be there soon.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
She was just trying to find the line of least
resistance so that she could get in the car and
come here with the girls.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Yes, when I wrung Amy, she was hysterical. If gone,
what fuck happens? A hit you because grabbed me by
the throat and throw me on the ground. Gone, what
he's grabbed you and grabbed you by the throat? For
the ground, what the fuck? Because she had a said
(23:58):
two bracksta, he got a paralyzed her by doing something stupid.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Like that from her previous neck injury from him.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Being drunk behind the wheel and crushing the car.
Speaker 7 (24:11):
It's worth noting here that David Simmons denies being drunk
at the time of the accident, and there's no proof
he was because police did not attend.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
So when you heard her say he's thrown me on
the ground.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah, that's when I said, pack his ship and the
girls get down here now. And by then only had
calmed down. She wasn't as hysterical as she was when
I first rung and okay, I'll be there soon. So
when I heard the carp up, I've gone to the
front door and it was him, and he knows I'm mistead.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Is that what he said to you? That was his
first words.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah, that was his first words. I mistead she killed usself.
I didn't believe it. I was in shock.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I didn't believe I mean, that's almost possible for you
to grasp on your front veranda like I.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Was in shark. I couldn't believe it. That's why I
had to go up to the house I just wanted
to get up there to find out.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
As quick as you could.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Yes, I remember it was raining that night too. I
was driving to the house. I was raining.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
When you think back on the conversation that you had
with Amy, because you must have replayed this over and
over in your mind a million times, is there anything
in that conversation that you thought she was off kilter,
a little bit strange or not. No, so I was
speaking normally or her usual.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
She was hysterical when I called because it was a
big fight that they were having. And when I told
her to come here, I'll be there soon, and she
wasn't ahsterical animal. And then I thought, she's going to
pack some other stuff and come straight down here.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Because when the police first said suicide, you must have
immediately gone back to that conversation you had with her
and thought, hang on a minute, she.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Wouldn't have done it. She wouldn't have put her girls
in the car and walk a couple of meters into
the house and do that. Why she's put her girls
in the car and said where are you going to
Nana Pops and staying there. You wouldn't do that. Why
would you say we're going to Nana and Pops. We're
(26:26):
staying Nana Pops and then go inside and commit suicide.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
It's a very strange sequence, isn't it. It is in
the immediate hours and days afterward. Nancy, did you talk
to the girls? I know they were very, very young.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I've never asked them any questions about that day, that afternoon.
I've never asked.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
But have they said anything to you? Have they speaking
out loud? Have they said something that's made you think?
Hang on?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
The youngest one as always said, if mom wanted to leave,
it would hurt her.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So you take it that's overheard from some conversation perhaps, or.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
They've seen the arguments, or they would have seen the
arguments the fights that for her to come out and
just say that.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
So, after all you've been through, after the initial investigation,
if I can call it that, and then another one
after that, then the cold case review, then the coroner's
court ten years on, what do you think happened?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
She didn't commit suicide.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
You're very convinced, absolutely. How do you then balance up
what's happened in the years since with nothing happening.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
It's a joke. It's a joke. Why weren't forensics out
there that night. They should have been there even if
I thought it was suicide, so they should have called
forensics out there, But I didn't. Her girls miss their
mum every day. They would prefer to be living with
(28:15):
their mum and living with me.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
How do you feel about the way the police have
handled this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Oh, it's a joke, absolute joke. I should have done more.
That's the why I say it. I should have done more.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Why do you think it's turned out this way? Do
you think it's just circumstance? Amy was just unlucky, if
I can, If I can put it that way.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yes, maybe if the detective that came out that night
wasn't going on and you'll leave that night after that shit,
maybe he would have decided to get forensics out and
do his job properly. But to me, my eyes, the
way I say it, all you cared about was, well,
(29:04):
this is my last shift. I'm going on annual leave.
If I get forensics out, I've got to stay longer.
That's the way I say it. Not doing their job?
Do you worry about going on annual leave.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
It's incredible to think that a young mum can be
shot in that fashion. Let me put it another way,
can suffer a fatal word in her own bedroom, and
yet the whole case there, ever, after, almost falls between
the cracks. It's very hard to get your head around,
(29:39):
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
It makes me angry. It makes me angry. Don't know
how they can make up for that, what they've put
my family through, especially Amy's daughters.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
How can this thing be fixed? Is it as simple
as somebody somewhere developing a conscience?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Well, I hope say there's a million dollars out there
for her if they want to come forward, or they
can be anonymous, but come forward and told them what
they know. And we all know Amy didn't do this.
How could she hold a double barrel shotgun? How could
she turn her head like that? When she couldn't even
(30:20):
turn her head like that because of her neck, should
have to move her whole body. So how does that
make sense?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Doesn't Well? Your opinion is backed up by the experts,
isn't it. There? Exactly not one, but two.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Two biomechanic experts exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Both said to the coroner that they were convinced, in
their opinion professional opinion, Amy did not shoot herself yep.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
And what's happened. I think so we were failed by
the police. The coroner just got no words for it.
It's just a joke. Someone needs to have a conscience.
Think of aim as daughters. Think of them, what they're
(31:08):
going through, what about their mental health? Think of them,
Do the right thing and speak up. That's what someone
needs to do that knows something. Speak up that Aim
is daughters.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
And just finally, Constable Larry Blandford.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Oh, here's a lovely man like Oh, I met him
properly today. I can't remember him coming to me the
nighted and I can't remember seeing him up at the house.
But meeting him today was saying nice, knowing that they
(31:59):
still play on his mind. He cares and he knows
that it's not right how we have been traded, how
Amy's daughters have been traded. It's not right.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Well, he was one of three policemen who turned up,
two policemen and one police woman, Yes, who turned up
when it happened. And all three of those uniformed officers
expressed their doubts.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Yes, and still those detectives just over their head. Why
and you'll leave? That just pisses me off.
Speaker 7 (32:37):
Nancy is referring to what Detective Kirkman told the inquest
that he was due to start seven weeks long servicely
as soon as the shift ended.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
And how disgusting is that just makes me angry. I'd
love for him to look at Amy's daughters and look
them in their eye and explain why why he failed them.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
So Simmons brings the girls, who were already in the
car anyway.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Because Amy put them in the car.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Amy put them there. He brings them here.
Speaker 7 (33:13):
Pausing here. In his testimony at the inquest, David Simmons
says he was the one who put the kids in
the car. However, Amy's family don't believe him.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
He tells you Amy's dead. Was he emotional, No, he
wasn't crying. Was he was he apologetic? Was he?
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Oh? He did? Actually later when I was yelling and screaming,
was crying, Well, what I know, insanity is. And then
when I went to the house, He's come back to
the house not long after it, and we were arguing
(33:55):
and I'm yelling, screaming and him, it's your fault. And
I remember the female police officer grabbing me from behind.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Consortable Dixon, yes, and.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Another officer standing in front of me, hold me back
because I was going for him. And then Larry Tommy
sitting car.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Why did you say that at the house? Why did
you tell Simmons you did it.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Amy? It was basically here, Amy was packing her stuff
and coming here, bringing the girls here, and she was
staying here. Something made her go back in that house,
put the girls in, and go back in that house,
and then she was spaced to get in the car
and come.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
You clearly didn't get on with the bloke. You had
him pegged quite early on. It's a bit of a
no hoper. As you had those conversations with Amy, did
you you said at all in the months leading up
to it.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Look, you know I felt sheeney a long long time ago.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Did she want to leave him?
Speaker 3 (35:00):
She has tried, but she would kick him out, believe,
and then it would be I'm not drinking anymore. I'm
not going to do it anymore, the drugs, drinking, and
he'll talk his way back in slowly, and then as
soon as he's back it's back to his old self.
(35:21):
So it's one of those ones. How many? This is
another thing that really hits me. They said there's no
report of domestic violence. How many women report domestic violence.
There's so many women out there that don't report it,
and obviously Amy was one of them, so for them
(35:43):
the place to say there was no domestic violence in
the past, Well, how do you know just because she
didn't report it, because a lot of women don't. So
don't sit there and say they weren't any violence in
their relationship when there was.
Speaker 7 (36:04):
In her findings, the coroner acknowledges evidence of a volatile
relationship subject to jealousy and threats of separation, with Amy
only taking Simmons back because he promised he would change.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
It's a high bar, isn't it if you have to
make an official report. Difficult thing to do? Yes, did
she ever say to you, mum? You know he drinks
too much, she's into drugs. How does she characterize his
behavior to you?
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Sicker and drugs, cigareine and drinking all the time, and
like I said, he would stop or stop, I won't
do it anymore, and then wais all his way back
into a life again. And it's the same cycle over
and iron over. Hopefully someone like I said, think of
(36:57):
I'm a girls two girls were without that mum, And
there right thing. Let's hope that's all. I want someone
to be arrested. Charles walked away.
Speaker 7 (37:15):
Daughter en honestly well, Nancy has cared for her granddaughters
since Amy's passing. Initially David Simmons did see his daughter,
but that didn't last long and Nancy now has a
lifetime restraining order against him.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
I've got to have it on my phone, and I
said to take a photo of it and leave it
on my phone, like if wearing the shopping center wherever,
and he approaches us, that I ring the place straight away,
and I've got that to say. I've got a restraining.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Order family violence restraining order. So when did you take
this out against David Robert Simmons twenty seventeen? And why
did you take that out then?
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Because he came here and threatened us. I don't know,
we're looking after his daughter, raising his daughter, not getting
any financial support for his daughter, comes here and threatens us,
Like what kind of person? Why would you do that
(38:24):
when you know that your daughter's getting looked after and
loved and you want to come here and threaten us.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
But this is three years after Yeah, Amy died.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
There's people out there that know that he's got a
violent history. Why would the cords give me that for life?
Speaker 1 (38:42):
That's a lifetime restraining order.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yes, lifetime. That's just saying something, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
It says a lot, Yeah it does.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
It's just someone out there needs to just bring up.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
And tell the truth. Yes, the truth about Amy.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, trust about Amy.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
After finishing up my interview with Nancy, Tay and Naya
decide they'd like to pay tribute to their mum in
their own words for this podcast. And it's worth noting
that these are the girls' nicknames. We've purposefully not included
their full names to protect their privacy.
Speaker 14 (39:26):
I gave Nay the nickname because I couldn't pronounce her name,
probably growing up here, and I don't know how I
got mine from.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
I think I might pot Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Okay, probably Okay. By the time we put this to air,
it's ten years since you lost your mum. Yeah, what
are your strongest memories of your mum?
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Now? Not a lot, but I remember maybe every we
would always watch a movie, either in the cinemas or
like at home. We would always like all Matt in
ones Is and eat popcorn and watch movies Friday night.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Movie Night.
Speaker 5 (40:11):
Yeah, Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
It's hard, isn't it, because you two work four and
almost four and six respectively, and it's very young, isn't it. Yeah,
to go back for anyone to think about personal memories.
Speaker 5 (40:26):
Yeah, it was a very long time and it was
a redden.
Speaker 8 (40:30):
We're both very young.
Speaker 14 (40:32):
It's always nice to hear stories about how much of
a good person our mum was growing up and the
woman she became to be.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, and like.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Knowing that we are both very similar to her, like
growing up. We both look similar to her as well. Well,
we like the same things that she liked.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, you can see her features in both of you
in different ways.
Speaker 14 (40:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
Always good.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
When I'm feeling like sad, I always have the chance
to look at all the photos, go through all the
photos with family.
Speaker 5 (41:08):
It's nice.
Speaker 7 (41:09):
Nayo goes on to tell Liam that she can still
remember the last time she saw her mom.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Mom. She told me that she needed to go back
inside to grab something, and she told me that the
next movie we're gonna watch would be Rio. Yeah, yes, so,
and then she went inside and then she never came
back out.
Speaker 14 (41:36):
To be honest, it does have an effect on me,
but I don't think it affects me as much as
it does everyone else. I know that some people have
it a lot worse than others because they were a
lot closer to her than some of us, and the
pressure for me personally, it's not a lot.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
This could have happened a lot easier if, yeah, it
was done properly, But it's still going on like ten
years now, so it is kind of hard. I'm like
happy that something's still like happening because we're getting somewhere,
Like it wasn't really anywhere at the start, but now
(42:19):
it's kind of getting somewhere and getting closer. So I
just hope that you can actually find who don't it.
Speaker 14 (42:29):
It's not too painful for me, but I know that
some people get really emotional and upset with these things,
So I'm used to being there and supporting others in
times like this, and I think it's helped me grow.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
In a way.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
We shouldn't have come to the point where we didn't
know what happened. We should have just known, like yes
on the day.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Next episode, we hear more from Amy's best friends.
Speaker 16 (43:06):
And all I saw was David with his hands around
Amy's neck, bent over like her back pushed up against
the table with his hands around her neck, and I
remember saying him, that's not okay, Like you can't do that,
Like she's nine months prey, what is.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Wrong with you? And the photo of Amy which went missing.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
That is it? See I got told that they didn't find.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
This suddenly turns up again.
Speaker 16 (43:30):
See I tried so hard to make sure that I
could get this available to ant to back you know
the stories of how he treated her.
Speaker 8 (43:47):
So dea.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Me say, if you knew Amy and have information, any
information about her death, we'd love to hear from you.
Just email us at The Truth about Amy at seven
(44:27):
dot com dot au. That's s e v E N
The Truth about Amy at seven dot com dot au,
or visit our website sevenews dot com dot au forward
slash the Truth about Amy. You can also send us
an anonymous tip at www dot the Truth about Amy
(44:52):
dot com. If you're on Facebook or Instagram, you can
follow us to see photos and updates relevant to the case,
but for legal reasons, unfortunately you won't be able to
make any comments. And remember, if you like what you're hearing,
(45:12):
don't forget to subscribe. Please rate and review our series
because it really helps new listeners to find us. Presenter
and executive producer Alison Sandy, Presenter and investigative journalist Liam Bartlett.
(45:34):
Sound design Mark Wright, Assistant producer Cassie Woodward, Graphics Jason Blandford,
and special thanks to Tim Clark and Brian Seymour. This
(45:59):
is a Seven News production.
This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We
urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on
thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at
lifeline dot org dot au. A twenty four year old
(00:29):
devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationship as a
bags pack car running her daughters strapped into the backseat.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Mom told me that she needed to go back inside
to grab something.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Panic.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I Amy is dead, Sir, I am his dead?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Eight Confusion World about five minutes.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Say sit not to suicide.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 6 (00:58):
This is emersing.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy?
Speaker 5 (01:06):
The Truth About Amy?
Speaker 6 (01:15):
Episode three?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I am Liam Bartlett.
Speaker 7 (01:22):
And I'm Alison Sandy.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
It's been three years since Anna has seen her sister
Nancy and her Nieces. It's a warm sunny day in Perth,
the Swan River sparkling. Only a few clouds can be
seen on the horizon. We take two cars, the camera
crew and me in one, Anna and Allison in the other.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
Good to catch up with him.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Anna says how excited she is about seeing everyone again.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Nice to you to make.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
That Before leaving she rings Nancy to let her know
they're on the way.
Speaker 6 (02:04):
Nancy sounded a little bit of horse this morning.
Speaker 8 (02:07):
Yeah, so that generally happens to her voice when she
starts to get nervous and anxious about things, And generally
that's all to do with Amy. She's had this condition
for ten years now, I guess.
Speaker 7 (02:20):
So that's why you had to take up the plan
for Amy, right, because it's just really too hard for
Nancy with everything and having to look after the kids
one hundred.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
She was devastated when this happened.
Speaker 8 (02:37):
It tore Nancy's world apart, and it devastated her as
a point and it still does to this day. And
I remember how angry I was, not just upset about
losing Amy, but how angry I was about how we
lost her and the way the police would treat Amy.
(03:01):
I was angry, and I remember going back to Sydney
and I'd be contacting Nancy and asking her to contact people.
Have you called this person, have you asked this question?
Have the police got back to you? Did the coroner
say anything? And I didn't realize at first that I
(03:24):
was pushing a broken person to do something they were
not capable of.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
And one day it just hit.
Speaker 8 (03:31):
Me, It just clicked if I had a conversation with her,
and I realized that she can't do this, and it's
me that's thinking of all these things to do, you know,
people to contact, people.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
To speak to, the questions to ask.
Speaker 8 (03:45):
And we had a conversation one day and I said
to her, how about you focus on looking after Amy's
children and protecting them.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
And I'll focus on Amy. And we agreed that's what
we'd do.
Speaker 7 (04:00):
Tell me you've organized a bit of a surprise meeting
today with for Larry, the police officer who was at
the scene, to come and meet Nancy. Now Nancy has
met him, but she doesn't remember.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Right, that's correct.
Speaker 8 (04:14):
So I didn't know this until I spoke to Larry.
Speaker 9 (04:21):
He was one of the officers that I saw Nancy,
I believe, down at the bottom gate when she first
arrived at the house after Amy died, and then he
and another police officer went to Nancy's home to let
her know.
Speaker 8 (04:40):
That the detectives had deemed Amy's death suicide. Nancy can't
remember that when you receive information like that and you
get told something is horrific as what she got told
that night I mean, Amy was the love of a life,
and when you get told something like that, your world
falls apart. How do you remember things that have said?
(05:03):
How do you remember? You know, just details like remembering
the person that told you that. It is so much
of that night that is such a blur to her.
She doesn't remember the conversation that she and I had
the very next morning when she told me that the
police had been in touch with her and told her
(05:24):
that Amy's death was a suicide.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
She doesn't remember that phone call to me.
Speaker 8 (05:29):
She doesn't remember that night when Amy died, the conversation
that she and I had on that phone, But I
remember it because it was devastating to me and it
was painful. I won't forget it. But it was so
much for her being Amy's mum, that a lot of
it is a blur. So she doesn't remember meeting Larry
(05:49):
that night. So coming here to Perth, I thought I'd
reach out to Larry and see if he'd be willing
to come to Nancy's place and meet her the first time.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Well, for her it's like.
Speaker 8 (06:03):
Meeting him for the first time because she doesn't remember,
and for me, I'd like to see him again as well,
because the only time I've ever met Larry was in
the courtroom when he gave evidence, and it was so brief.
He got up and he gave his evidence, and after
he gave the evidence, he came down and he shook
(06:25):
the hands of people who were there for Amy. And
when he got to me, I just said to him,
thank you, and he just leant down and hugged me,
just gave me a hug, and I could see the
pain on his face.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
And I think it's really.
Speaker 8 (06:39):
Important that Nancy meets him as well, because I think,
you know, she would like to thank him for giving
his honest recollection of that night.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Today's going to be hard for Nancy, though, isn't it.
Speaker 8 (06:53):
It will be, I think, although it's although I maybe
organize this surprise her to meet Larry, I think also
it will probably hit a nerve as well, because once
she realizes who he is, I think, you know, it'll
be emotional for her. But I think she'll be okay
because we'll be together. So that's what makes it okay.
Speaker 6 (07:15):
You are for each other what the other isn't I guess,
you know what.
Speaker 8 (07:20):
It's funny to say that because when Nancy and I
had that conversation years ago, and I said to her,
you look after Amy's children and I'll look after Amy.
I said to her, you know what it's like being
one person, but we're splitting ourselves in half. That's exactly
what I said to her. She's never been the same
to her.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
No, she hasn't, not at all. No.
Speaker 8 (07:42):
But thank God for Amy's children. You know, they've kept
her going. They have been her focus. And it's been
very hard for her because you know, at the beginning,
you're talking about two little girls who have just lost
their mum, and Nancy.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Had to hold herself together.
Speaker 8 (08:03):
You know, so many times when Nancy wanted to, I
guess break down or cry or whatever, she'd have to
hold that because she had to be strong for those children.
And those children seeing Nancy upset all the time isn't
good for them.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
You know, they love their Nan.
Speaker 8 (08:19):
I remember when not long after Amy passed and Nancy
had to get back to some sort of normality and
she was working full time, and she had the kids
living with us, and she went back to work.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
And Nancy would obviously she stays.
Speaker 8 (08:36):
In regular contact with me, and she'd tell me how
if she was home late the girls would be very
upset and they'd be at the window looking out the window,
waiting for her. And she said, you know, they just
really want me home and they get upset if I'm late.
And I had to point it out to me and
I said, Nancy, they're scared you're not coming home. I said,
I have to think about it. Their mum was there one
(08:59):
minute and the next minute, their mum's gone. Now they're
with you, and they live with you. And if you
say you're going to be home at three o'clock or
four o'clock and you're not there, I said, what do
you think goes through their minds? I said, of course
they're looking at that window waiting for you because they've
lost their mum.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
They don't need to lose their nan. It's awful, Thank
you man.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
As always, not's just so appreciative for you. You speak
with your honey.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
Yeah, I'm about to cry. I just hate it.
Speaker 6 (09:32):
Like day, it's going to be good. No, it will
beat therapy.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
I can't wait to see them.
Speaker 8 (09:40):
But when I think back about things like that, Alison,
like those little girls you know, worrying about.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
Nuds you're not coming home. They're just babies. They're just little.
Speaker 10 (09:51):
Girls and Amy Amy that Amy's babies and she should
be here. Her life was cut short.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Fighting for Amy has taken its toll on Anna and
the rest of the family, but they want their story toll.
They find strength in each other, but sometimes it does
feel very lonely. When we arrive, only Nancy comes to
the front door. Amy's daughters and friends know that we
(10:24):
the journalists and camera crew are turning up, but they
don't know Anna is with us. Nancy takes us through
the house to where they're all waiting in the backyard
entertainment area. When they see Anna, Hello, Tay and Neya
immediately jump up excitedly and give her a big hope.
Speaker 11 (10:52):
It's just so much so when you're moving to Sydney.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Oh my god, Oh.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Miss your girls so much.
Speaker 12 (11:19):
You don't believe that it's me.
Speaker 8 (11:25):
Yeah, cry, I'm not a big fan praying either.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Anna also enjoys a hug with her sister Nancy, who
she hasn't seen for three years.
Speaker 12 (11:34):
Oh wow, the cool looks goodness.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
He doesn't.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Also at the reunion are Amy's best friends Natasha Selsa,
who she used to live with, and Aaron Gower, who
Amy met at high school.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I said, I wasn't.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Coming back here to your business, mean in Sydney at
this time. Be back to your visit me, Tash.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
You.
Speaker 7 (12:13):
Like Amy. Nancy was a young mum. Amy Lee Wensley
was born on eleventh of February nineteen ninety at Nepean
Hospital in New South Wales to Nancy and John Wensley.
Amy and her parents lived with John's mother, who was
(12:35):
so excited about the birth of her first grandchild. Amy
would grow up to form a very close bond with
her grandmother, whom she would go on to affectionately call Marzy.
Marzy adored Amy and she would always fuss over her granddaughter.
(12:57):
When Amy was aged about three, Nancy and John decided
to move to Ballina, where Amy's sister Sam was born.
Amy was upset Sam was not a boy and asked
her mum to take Sam back to the hospital and
bring home a boy. Despite wanting a brother, Amy adored
(13:19):
having a little sister. A few years later, they moved
back to Sydney to be closer to family. Marzie and
her auntie Anna were thrilled to have them return and
to be closer to the children. Three years later, Amy
became a big sister again to Kelly. Amy was delighted
(13:41):
and spent much of a time fussing over her little sisters,
always looking after and playing with them. For a short while,
Amy attended Newtown Primary School and enrolled at Brent Street
Dance Studio, where she took part in the End of
Yew dance performance. She loved dancing and going to rehearsals.
(14:07):
Amy's parents separated and Nancy was looking to start a
new life elsewhere. Nancy and her three daughters moved to Perth,
where her brother was living with his family. Amy settled
him well to her new life and made new friends
in high school. It's where she met Aaron Gower. Amy
(14:28):
continued to include her sisters in everything. They shared a
close bond until the day.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
She died too.
Speaker 8 (14:41):
When Amy died, they aged just seventeen and twenty and
the girls are very close. When they were growing up,
Amy used to be like a little mum to them.
She used to fuss over them and play with them
and make sure they're okay and make sure they weren't misbehaving.
She was a proper little and as they got a
(15:01):
little bit older became teenagers, Amy used to do things
with her friends, and sometimes she'd take her sisters along
with her. That's how close they were. And when Amy
passed away, her sisters were so devastated and they still
are at the loss of their big sister and not
having her around anymore.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
They missed terribly.
Speaker 7 (15:23):
After Amy died, Kelly received a Facebook message from David Simmons' aunt,
Chrissy Bull, who said.
Speaker 13 (15:30):
I will never ever believe that she took her own
life because that was not what Amy would ever do. Kelly,
all I can say to you is that Amy was
a big part of our family too.
Speaker 8 (15:42):
It shows that it's not just our family and friends
who who believe that Amy did not take her life.
There's clearly members of David's own family who feel the
same way or think the same way and don't believe
that Amy took her life either.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
And that says a lot. I think that speaks volumes.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
Then two weeks later, she sent another message to Amy's
best friend Erin, saying this, I.
Speaker 13 (16:09):
Hope you don't take this the wrong way, but my
family and I are having a private service for Amy.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
Chrissy complains they weren't invited to Amy's official funeral.
Speaker 13 (16:19):
That is the reason my family wasn't at Amy's funeral.
We weren't told nothing at all. Nancy had no intention
whatsoever to let Tay's great grandparents even know. We're all
drained by what's gone on. I'm not letting off steam
to you by any means whatsoever. I just know that
this isn't the way Amy would have wanted. This family
(16:42):
aren't even allowed to see the girls. Just a few
heads up on why my family's hurting, Aaron replies.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
What does this have to do with me?
Speaker 13 (16:50):
Just let you know we cared for your bestie two.
Speaker 8 (16:53):
I understand exactly why her family is feeling the way
they are.
Speaker 13 (16:56):
I was always the one to help her out. I
know what you're saying me, I do. May she be
resting in peace and the truth come out in the end.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
I love to come as it means.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, Amy's loved ones settle into conversation, enjoy a game poul,
and make the most of their special but limited time together.
And I can't believe how much her daughters have grown,
both physically and emotionally.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Surprise.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
Yeah, just a little, just a little.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I don't worry.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
I'm nearly taller than everyone here.
Speaker 14 (17:44):
Except except you should take up to me, be tall,
hopefully look at you.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
Oh my god, will will sit down? It's making me
a drink. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I mean she's that's okay.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
So anyone can.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Tell me anything that's going It's got the braces. How's
that going on?
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
I just took them out because I can't speak with them.
It's like my mouth closed like this.
Speaker 8 (18:16):
How much longer you do?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I've had them for like two years and a bit now,
but they only said I was meant to have them
for like only a year because my teeth weren't that bad.
Speaker 8 (18:25):
They weren't that bad.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And I have a dent disappointment, I think on Wednesday,
and then yeah.
Speaker 15 (18:32):
You'll find out then hopefully find out if I get
the mouths and you're just gonna have beautiful teeth.
Speaker 12 (18:37):
Yeah, and you're missing what's going on.
Speaker 6 (18:40):
Not much is growing one at the moment.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
For me, it's what year are you in now?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I'm in year nine and you're liking school?
Speaker 14 (18:49):
Yeah, it's all right, nothing too interesting in the moment.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
But education is important.
Speaker 12 (18:56):
So when Amy was a little girl, when your mum
was little, she always just to get upset when she
had to go home to Nan. She wanted to stay
with me, and she was sitting in the car and
I used to do this to her.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Anna points to her eye, her heart, then to Tay
and Naya, I love you.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
And then she'd do this to me.
Speaker 8 (19:22):
She'd point to her eye, point to her heart, point
to me, and then hold up two fingers to say,
I love you too.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
And that's why you two do it, because your mum
taught you to do it.
Speaker 15 (19:33):
Yeah, what was the other thing your mum taught you that?
Speaker 5 (19:36):
I taught her?
Speaker 8 (19:38):
There was something and I used to tell her something,
and she taught you to that. Oh about sisters.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
That's exactly what because it's true, right, that's true.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Right before we know it, over an hour has passed.
Larry is due to arrive any minute.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Oh, Nancy, Larry, there are you guaranteed. I'm really sorry.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Buddy's been lingering. Oh man, I was right. I want
to say you because I never got to tell you
after the inquest. Thank you so much, been there and
(20:39):
doing all this, doing all this with us.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
It's something I have to do. I have to see
the job, even though I'm not a pretty much.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Thank you so much. You would you like to come
and meet the girls. I means girls.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yes. Nancy goes on to show Larry a shelf where
pictures of Amy and her daughters are carefully placed, as
well as a candle they light on the anniversary of
her death. Before then Taynya and Larry meet for the
(21:19):
first time.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
But this is Larry, this is yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You're the tallest and the I picked that up straight away.
I should have been a detective.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
We wish, yes, actually we wish.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
It's a good surprise.
Speaker 15 (21:41):
Next stop it so the girls just asking me his
surprise visitor and we just told him that you're the
police officer.
Speaker 12 (21:52):
It turned up the first one to turn up and
tried to help their mom.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
And I made a pledge that night to Amy. I
stayed in the room with the farewell and I made
a pledge that I said, we were going to get
to the bottom of this.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
We'll get to the bottom of this.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Everyone here is united in their grief. Emotions are raw,
but they're here for one reason, and I hope that
the truth about Amy will finally be realized. Nancy tells
me how the passing of time has not made it
any easier.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I have trouble sleeping at night. Oh, I can be
so tired and I'll go to bed and something will
just trickle me in, I sends. I closed my eyes.
I go back to that night, that phone call. I
raung her when I got home from work, hearing is
hearing names voice, hysterical crying, And.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
In that phone call, you said, what come here? Come
come home?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Kiss shit? You want the girls? Come here? I don't
care if you stay here for a month. Here whatever,
get here now.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
She fully agree with you. Did you feel any sort
of pushback?
Speaker 3 (23:12):
No, Yes, mum, I'll be there soon. He said, Do
you want me to come get here? She said no,
because she knew if I would have went out there,
there would have been a big argument with David and
myself and son. I was there soon, so you're sure
I'll be there soon.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
She was just trying to find the line of least
resistance so that she could get in the car and
come here with the girls.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Yes, when I wrung Amy, she was hysterical. If gone,
what fuck happens? A hit you because grabbed me by
the throat and throw me on the ground. Gone, what
he's grabbed you and grabbed you by the throat? For
the ground, what the fuck? Because she had a said
(23:58):
two bracksta, he got a paralyzed her by doing something stupid.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Like that from her previous neck injury from him.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Being drunk behind the wheel and crushing the car.
Speaker 7 (24:11):
It's worth noting here that David Simmons denies being drunk
at the time of the accident, and there's no proof
he was because police did not attend.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
So when you heard her say he's thrown me on
the ground.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah, that's when I said, pack his ship and the
girls get down here now. And by then only had
calmed down. She wasn't as hysterical as she was when
I first rung and okay, I'll be there soon. So
when I heard the carp up, I've gone to the
front door and it was him, and he knows I'm mistead.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Is that what he said to you? That was his
first words.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah, that was his first words. I mistead she killed usself.
I didn't believe it. I was in shock.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I didn't believe I mean, that's almost possible for you
to grasp on your front veranda like I.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Was in shark. I couldn't believe it. That's why I
had to go up to the house I just wanted
to get up there to find out.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
As quick as you could.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Yes, I remember it was raining that night too. I
was driving to the house. I was raining.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
When you think back on the conversation that you had
with Amy, because you must have replayed this over and
over in your mind a million times, is there anything
in that conversation that you thought she was off kilter,
a little bit strange or not. No, so I was
speaking normally or her usual.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
She was hysterical when I called because it was a
big fight that they were having. And when I told
her to come here, I'll be there soon, and she
wasn't ahsterical animal. And then I thought, she's going to
pack some other stuff and come straight down here.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Because when the police first said suicide, you must have
immediately gone back to that conversation you had with her
and thought, hang on a minute, she.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Wouldn't have done it. She wouldn't have put her girls
in the car and walk a couple of meters into
the house and do that. Why she's put her girls
in the car and said where are you going to
Nana Pops and staying there. You wouldn't do that. Why
would you say we're going to Nana and Pops. We're
(26:26):
staying Nana Pops and then go inside and commit suicide.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
It's a very strange sequence, isn't it. It is in
the immediate hours and days afterward. Nancy, did you talk
to the girls? I know they were very, very young.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I've never asked them any questions about that day, that afternoon.
I've never asked.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
But have they said anything to you? Have they speaking
out loud? Have they said something that's made you think?
Hang on?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
The youngest one as always said, if mom wanted to leave,
it would hurt her.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So you take it that's overheard from some conversation perhaps, or.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
They've seen the arguments, or they would have seen the
arguments the fights that for her to come out and
just say that.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
So, after all you've been through, after the initial investigation,
if I can call it that, and then another one
after that, then the cold case review, then the coroner's
court ten years on, what do you think happened?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
She didn't commit suicide.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
You're very convinced, absolutely. How do you then balance up
what's happened in the years since with nothing happening.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
It's a joke. It's a joke. Why weren't forensics out
there that night. They should have been there even if
I thought it was suicide, so they should have called
forensics out there, But I didn't. Her girls miss their
mum every day. They would prefer to be living with
(28:15):
their mum and living with me.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
How do you feel about the way the police have
handled this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Oh, it's a joke, absolute joke. I should have done more.
That's the why I say it. I should have done more.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Why do you think it's turned out this way? Do
you think it's just circumstance? Amy was just unlucky, if
I can, If I can put it that way.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yes, maybe if the detective that came out that night
wasn't going on and you'll leave that night after that shit,
maybe he would have decided to get forensics out and
do his job properly. But to me, my eyes, the
way I say it, all you cared about was, well,
(29:04):
this is my last shift. I'm going on annual leave.
If I get forensics out, I've got to stay longer.
That's the way I say it. Not doing their job?
Do you worry about going on annual leave.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
It's incredible to think that a young mum can be
shot in that fashion. Let me put it another way,
can suffer a fatal word in her own bedroom, and
yet the whole case there, ever, after, almost falls between
the cracks. It's very hard to get your head around,
(29:39):
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
It makes me angry. It makes me angry. Don't know
how they can make up for that, what they've put
my family through, especially Amy's daughters.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
How can this thing be fixed? Is it as simple
as somebody somewhere developing a conscience?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Well, I hope say there's a million dollars out there
for her if they want to come forward, or they
can be anonymous, but come forward and told them what
they know. And we all know Amy didn't do this.
How could she hold a double barrel shotgun? How could
she turn her head like that? When she couldn't even
(30:20):
turn her head like that because of her neck, should
have to move her whole body. So how does that
make sense?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Doesn't Well? Your opinion is backed up by the experts,
isn't it. There? Exactly not one, but two.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Two biomechanic experts exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Both said to the coroner that they were convinced, in
their opinion professional opinion, Amy did not shoot herself yep.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
And what's happened. I think so we were failed by
the police. The coroner just got no words for it.
It's just a joke. Someone needs to have a conscience.
Think of aim as daughters. Think of them, what they're
(31:08):
going through, what about their mental health? Think of them,
Do the right thing and speak up. That's what someone
needs to do that knows something. Speak up that Aim
is daughters.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
And just finally, Constable Larry Blandford.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Oh, here's a lovely man like Oh, I met him
properly today. I can't remember him coming to me the
nighted and I can't remember seeing him up at the house.
But meeting him today was saying nice, knowing that they
(31:59):
still play on his mind. He cares and he knows
that it's not right how we have been traded, how
Amy's daughters have been traded. It's not right.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Well, he was one of three policemen who turned up,
two policemen and one police woman, Yes, who turned up
when it happened. And all three of those uniformed officers
expressed their doubts.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Yes, and still those detectives just over their head. Why
and you'll leave? That just pisses me off.
Speaker 7 (32:37):
Nancy is referring to what Detective Kirkman told the inquest
that he was due to start seven weeks long servicely
as soon as the shift ended.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
And how disgusting is that just makes me angry. I'd
love for him to look at Amy's daughters and look
them in their eye and explain why why he failed them.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
So Simmons brings the girls, who were already in the
car anyway.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Because Amy put them in the car.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Amy put them there. He brings them here.
Speaker 7 (33:13):
Pausing here. In his testimony at the inquest, David Simmons
says he was the one who put the kids in
the car. However, Amy's family don't believe him.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
He tells you Amy's dead. Was he emotional, No, he
wasn't crying. Was he was he apologetic? Was he?
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Oh? He did? Actually later when I was yelling and screaming,
was crying, Well, what I know, insanity is. And then
when I went to the house, He's come back to
the house not long after it, and we were arguing
(33:55):
and I'm yelling, screaming and him, it's your fault. And
I remember the female police officer grabbing me from behind.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Consortable Dixon, yes, and.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Another officer standing in front of me, hold me back
because I was going for him. And then Larry Tommy
sitting car.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Why did you say that at the house? Why did
you tell Simmons you did it.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Amy? It was basically here, Amy was packing her stuff
and coming here, bringing the girls here, and she was
staying here. Something made her go back in that house,
put the girls in, and go back in that house,
and then she was spaced to get in the car
and come.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
You clearly didn't get on with the bloke. You had
him pegged quite early on. It's a bit of a
no hoper. As you had those conversations with Amy, did
you you said at all in the months leading up
to it.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Look, you know I felt sheeney a long long time ago.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Did she want to leave him?
Speaker 3 (35:00):
She has tried, but she would kick him out, believe,
and then it would be I'm not drinking anymore. I'm
not going to do it anymore, the drugs, drinking, and
he'll talk his way back in slowly, and then as
soon as he's back it's back to his old self.
(35:21):
So it's one of those ones. How many? This is
another thing that really hits me. They said there's no
report of domestic violence. How many women report domestic violence.
There's so many women out there that don't report it,
and obviously Amy was one of them, so for them
(35:43):
the place to say there was no domestic violence in
the past, Well, how do you know just because she
didn't report it, because a lot of women don't. So
don't sit there and say they weren't any violence in
their relationship when there was.
Speaker 7 (36:04):
In her findings, the coroner acknowledges evidence of a volatile
relationship subject to jealousy and threats of separation, with Amy
only taking Simmons back because he promised he would change.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
It's a high bar, isn't it if you have to
make an official report. Difficult thing to do? Yes, did
she ever say to you, mum? You know he drinks
too much, she's into drugs. How does she characterize his
behavior to you?
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Sicker and drugs, cigareine and drinking all the time, and
like I said, he would stop or stop, I won't
do it anymore, and then wais all his way back
into a life again. And it's the same cycle over
and iron over. Hopefully someone like I said, think of
(36:57):
I'm a girls two girls were without that mum, And
there right thing. Let's hope that's all. I want someone
to be arrested. Charles walked away.
Speaker 7 (37:15):
Daughter en honestly well, Nancy has cared for her granddaughters
since Amy's passing. Initially David Simmons did see his daughter,
but that didn't last long and Nancy now has a
lifetime restraining order against him.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
I've got to have it on my phone, and I
said to take a photo of it and leave it
on my phone, like if wearing the shopping center wherever,
and he approaches us, that I ring the place straight away,
and I've got that to say. I've got a restraining.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Order family violence restraining order. So when did you take
this out against David Robert Simmons twenty seventeen? And why
did you take that out then?
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Because he came here and threatened us. I don't know,
we're looking after his daughter, raising his daughter, not getting
any financial support for his daughter, comes here and threatens us,
Like what kind of person? Why would you do that
(38:24):
when you know that your daughter's getting looked after and
loved and you want to come here and threaten us.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
But this is three years after Yeah, Amy died.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
There's people out there that know that he's got a
violent history. Why would the cords give me that for life?
Speaker 1 (38:42):
That's a lifetime restraining order.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yes, lifetime. That's just saying something, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
It says a lot, Yeah it does.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
It's just someone out there needs to just bring up.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
And tell the truth. Yes, the truth about Amy.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, trust about Amy.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
After finishing up my interview with Nancy, Tay and Naya
decide they'd like to pay tribute to their mum in
their own words for this podcast. And it's worth noting
that these are the girls' nicknames. We've purposefully not included
their full names to protect their privacy.
Speaker 14 (39:26):
I gave Nay the nickname because I couldn't pronounce her name,
probably growing up here, and I don't know how I
got mine from.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
I think I might pot Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Okay, probably Okay. By the time we put this to air,
it's ten years since you lost your mum. Yeah, what
are your strongest memories of your mum?
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Now? Not a lot, but I remember maybe every we
would always watch a movie, either in the cinemas or
like at home. We would always like all Matt in
ones Is and eat popcorn and watch movies Friday night.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Movie Night.
Speaker 5 (40:11):
Yeah, Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
It's hard, isn't it, because you two work four and
almost four and six respectively, and it's very young, isn't it. Yeah,
to go back for anyone to think about personal memories.
Speaker 5 (40:26):
Yeah, it was a very long time and it was
a redden.
Speaker 8 (40:30):
We're both very young.
Speaker 14 (40:32):
It's always nice to hear stories about how much of
a good person our mum was growing up and the
woman she became to be.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, and like.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Knowing that we are both very similar to her, like
growing up. We both look similar to her as well. Well,
we like the same things that she liked.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, you can see her features in both of you
in different ways.
Speaker 14 (40:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
Always good.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
When I'm feeling like sad, I always have the chance
to look at all the photos, go through all the
photos with family.
Speaker 5 (41:08):
It's nice.
Speaker 7 (41:09):
Nayo goes on to tell Liam that she can still
remember the last time she saw her mom.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Mom. She told me that she needed to go back
inside to grab something, and she told me that the
next movie we're gonna watch would be Rio. Yeah, yes, so,
and then she went inside and then she never came
back out.
Speaker 14 (41:36):
To be honest, it does have an effect on me,
but I don't think it affects me as much as
it does everyone else. I know that some people have
it a lot worse than others because they were a
lot closer to her than some of us, and the
pressure for me personally, it's not a lot.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
This could have happened a lot easier if, yeah, it
was done properly, But it's still going on like ten
years now, so it is kind of hard. I'm like
happy that something's still like happening because we're getting somewhere,
Like it wasn't really anywhere at the start, but now
(42:19):
it's kind of getting somewhere and getting closer. So I
just hope that you can actually find who don't it.
Speaker 14 (42:29):
It's not too painful for me, but I know that
some people get really emotional and upset with these things,
So I'm used to being there and supporting others in
times like this, and I think it's helped me grow.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
In a way.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
We shouldn't have come to the point where we didn't
know what happened. We should have just known, like yes
on the day.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Next episode, we hear more from Amy's best friends.
Speaker 16 (43:06):
And all I saw was David with his hands around
Amy's neck, bent over like her back pushed up against
the table with his hands around her neck, and I
remember saying him, that's not okay, Like you can't do that,
Like she's nine months prey, what is.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Wrong with you? And the photo of Amy which went missing.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
That is it? See I got told that they didn't find.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
This suddenly turns up again.
Speaker 16 (43:30):
See I tried so hard to make sure that I
could get this available to ant to back you know
the stories of how he treated her.
Speaker 8 (43:47):
So dea.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Me say, if you knew Amy and have information, any
information about her death, we'd love to hear from you.
Just email us at The Truth about Amy at seven
(44:27):
dot com dot au. That's s e v E N
The Truth about Amy at seven dot com dot au,
or visit our website sevenews dot com dot au forward
slash the Truth about Amy. You can also send us
an anonymous tip at www dot the Truth about Amy
(44:52):
dot com. If you're on Facebook or Instagram, you can
follow us to see photos and updates relevant to the case,
but for legal reasons, unfortunately you won't be able to
make any comments. And remember, if you like what you're hearing,
(45:12):
don't forget to subscribe. Please rate and review our series
because it really helps new listeners to find us. Presenter
and executive producer Alison Sandy, Presenter and investigative journalist Liam Bartlett.
(45:34):
Sound design Mark Wright, Assistant producer Cassie Woodward, Graphics Jason Blandford,
and special thanks to Tim Clark and Brian Seymour. This
(45:59):
is a Seven News production.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com