07: Torn

Why did David Simmons' father Robert think his son killed Amy? And why did Gareth Price’s ex wife pull out from testifying at the inquest at the last minute? Details of an horrific threat on social media which until now has impeded The Truth About Amy from being revealed.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We
urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on
thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at
lifeline dot org dot AU. A twenty four year old

(00:29):
devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationship as a
bags pack car running her daughters strapped into the backseat.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Mom told me that she needed to go back inside
to grab something.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Panic.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
I Amy is dead, Sir aim his dead?

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Eight confusion about five minutes say sit n to a suicide?

Speaker 3 (00:56):
One hundred percent?

Speaker 4 (00:58):
This is Emercy.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy?

Speaker 5 (01:06):
The Truth about Amy?

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Episode seven?

Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm Liam Bartlett.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
And I'm Alison Sandy.

Speaker 6 (01:25):
Sorry Gareth mate for what has happened in the past
and now recently. It means I have no one around
me because I don't want to be a burden on
you or the others. No more so if you don't
hear from me anymore, is because you don't need the
drama that follows me. So sincerely, David R. Simmons. It
breaks my heart, but trying to help someone has caused

(01:47):
this issue.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
This is a message exchange on Facebook between David Simmons
and Joshua Brydon after Amy died. The date is fifteenth
of November twenty twenty three.

Speaker 7 (02:01):
David, Robert Simmons, you just made the first step right there.
We are always here for you, but you are the
only person that can take control of your life and
move forward. It's not easy and you have a long
road ahead of here, but you have our support in
a near to listen.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
They've remained close over the past decade. Speaking of Brighton,
we've recently learned he's currently been reminded after being charged
for breaching a family violence restraining order. You'll hear more
about that in a future episode. But there's two people
who were there on the day who aren't a part

(02:38):
of their tight knit group, Gareth's ex wife Rachel Mckerne
and David's father, Robert Simmons. This episode concentrates on the
evidence they have provided over the years, some of which
is really telling and hasn't been given the attention it deserves.
We'll start with Robert. This is a statement he made

(03:00):
to Wa police the day after Amy died.

Speaker 8 (03:06):
I am fifty four years old and currently reside at
twenty seven to eighty three Southwestern Highway, Serpentine. I am
a self employed tree clearer. I have my own business.
My business is run from my home address. On Thursday,
twenty sixth of June twenty fourteen, at about five thirty pm,
I was at my home address by myself. The home

(03:26):
phone rang. I answered the phone and it was Saint
John's Ambulance. The person asked if David Simmons was there.
I said, he lives on the property. I said, that's
my son. There are two houses on the property, or
something like that. There seemed to be some confusion from
the Saint John's Ambulance person as to what was going on.

(03:46):
I said, I will go and check and call back.
I got in my nest and four wheel drive and
drove down my driveway to the house my son, David
Simmons stays in. There are two houses on the property.
I live in the one at the top, David lives
in the one below. It is only six hundred meters
along the driveway to the other house. David lives at
the address with his partner Amy. I can't think of

(04:09):
her surname. They have one child together and she is
turning for this weekend. They have lived in the house
together about three months. When I got to the house,
I parked next to David's white Subaru brumby Yute. I
noticed Amy's white Commodore wasn't there. I got out of
my car, and as I walked through the gate toward
the front door, I called out David. There was no answer.

(04:33):
I walked to the entry door, which leads to the kitchen.
I noticed the kitchen was messy. I also noticed straightway
the smell of gunpowder. I paused at the kitchen and
didn't see anyone. I noticed the bedroom one door was
open about six to eight inches. I walked to that
door and pushed it open and entered the room. I
saw two guns on the floor. They were next to

(04:54):
the bed as you walk in. One of the guns
was a side by side double barrel stainless decks all
four ten shotgun. I knew the gunpowder smell was from
the four ten. The other gun on the floor was
a twenty two caliber rifle. I know it's Amy's gun
because it's pink. I have seen it once before when
they first got it. I did not touch the twenty two.

(05:16):
I bent down and picked up the four ten. I
cracked it open, which means I pushed the lever and
broke it open to check for ammunition. I pulled out
one cartridge which was spent. It was red in color
with a brass top. I stood it on the bedside table.
I didn't check if it was a solid round or anything.
I pulled out the other cartridge and it was full,

(05:37):
as in it had not been fired. It was the
same color. I also stood that one on the bedside table.
I closed the gun and put it back on the floor.
I think when I saw the rifles on the floor,
the barrels were both pointing toward the door where I entered.
I'm pretty sure I put the gun down the same
way I found it. I didn't touch the trigger on

(05:57):
either of the rifles on the floor. As I put
the shotgun down, something caught my attention and I closed
the bedroom door. I looked behind the door and saw
blood spatter on the wall behind the door. I saw
some legs and it was a small person wearing black tights.
There was a gray or car key jacket over the
person's head and upper body. I pulled the jacket off

(06:18):
and saw that the person was Amy. Amy looked like
she had been shot. I didn't look at her for long.
I put the jacket back down on her and left
the room. My heart began racing. I knew then that
I shouldn't have touched the gun. I went outside the house.
I was fumbling with my mobile phone. I know the
phone reception is not good in certain areas, so I

(06:39):
walked to the front area of the house, where I
knew I could get mobile reception. I caught triple zero
and spoke to the police. I told them what I
had found. I didn't go back into the house after that.
I went and got back in my car and drove
down to the front gate to wait for the police.
When I got to the front gate, I saw my son,
David's friend Gareth. Gareth was standing outside my front gate

(07:02):
near the highway on the verge. He was looking shell shocked.
I pulled up in the car and I said, what
the hell's happening up there. Gareth looked at me, stunned
and said, she shot herself. She shot herself. I said,
who covered up? Gareth said I did. At that moment,
the police pulled up. The police asked move out of

(07:23):
the way, as I was blocking the entrance. I asked, Gareth,
where's David. Gareth said, he's dropping the girls off at Nancy's.
Nancy is Amy's mum. Gareth was wearing shorts like board
shorts and a jumper. I can't recall what color his
clothing was, but it wasn't bright. I would have remembered that.
I think Gareth had shoes on runners with socks. Gareth

(07:45):
is about mid twenty to thirty years old, about five
foot ten tall and about medium to well built build,
white skin. Gareth looked scruff and has a day's look
on him. It was just on dusk by this time,
so it was getting dark. Gareth did not have his
car with him. I was wearing blue jeans and a
white T shirt under a black jumper. I had my

(08:06):
black casual shoes on their Mountain Design brand. They are
sized ten. The police drove up the driveway to the house.
Two ambulances had also arrived, and they all drove up
to David's house. I followed behind in my car. When
we got to the house, the police asked me if
I could get rid of the dog. David's dog was
under the house. It was barking. It's a big dog.

(08:29):
They use it for pig hunting. I couldn't get the
dog because it wouldn't come out from under the house.
The dog stopped barking, and the police told me to
go back up to my house and wait there, which
I did. I went home and made coffee. I called
my brother Neville. I called Bridget, who is my wife,
but we're now separated. I also called David's mother, Evelyn,

(08:49):
who is my first ex wife. I called them on
my mobile phone. I think about eleven pm. Police came
up to the house and I spoke with them. They
gave me a receipt for firearms they were taking away.
The police told me they thought Amy had taken her
own life. It was not long after police had been
at my door David and Gareth came to my place.

(09:10):
I stood at the front door for a couple of minutes.
They didn't come into my place. Both David and Gareth
were looking traumatized. David was pretty teary. David was going
to go and stay at Gareth's house. I told Gareth
not to work the next day and to stay with
David and look after him. I told them both not
to go drinking. My son was wearing board shorts as

(09:31):
well and boots. I think I can't recall what top
he had on. Again, I don't think it was bright colors.
David and Gareth left my place in the Subaru brumby
about eleven thirty pm or midnight. I can't remember if
the police came to my place first or if it
was David and Gareth. David came back to my place
about eight am this morning. He was still with Gareth.

(09:53):
I spoke with David about what happened. David only said
it isn't right. How could you do that something similar? Again,
I didn't think it was right to ask more questions
about what had happened. David only stayed a short time.
I told David Nancy had rung. Nancy wanted some clothes
and things for the kids. I told David to leave

(10:14):
the commodore down on the highway and she can come
and pick it up.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
The commodore had all the things for the kids in it.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Robert is referring to Amy's car, which she had already
packed with the kid's belongings.

Speaker 8 (10:25):
I told David not to go into the bedroom where
Amy had been. I didn't go with David down to
the house David told me the commodore was already packed up,
and then he didn't need to go in the house.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
The police had given me a phone number for a
cleaning lady.

Speaker 8 (10:38):
I rang her in the morning and left a message.
The cleaner rang back about eight thirty am. I arranged
for her to come and clean the house. She got
there about ten am. The police came later and I
spoke with him. I really don't know much about David
and Amy's relationship. I never really spoken much to Amy,
but she seemed nice enough when I have spoken to her.

(10:59):
Amy actually looked after my horses. When she was living
with David in the house. Amy seemed like a good
The kids were always.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
Washed and dressed.

Speaker 8 (11:07):
David and Gareth had been doing a bit of drinking
and pig shooting recently. I gave David some advice and
recently told him to pull his head in a bit
regarding the drinking. I had heard over the years that
Amy was a bit wild. I heard about an incident
from one of David's mates that Amy stabbed David in
the neck with a car key, but I never saw this.
I have never seen or heard Amy and David fighting

(11:29):
or anything. But I am about six hundred meters away.
David was quite into his guns. David liked to go
pig hunting. Most of the time. They don't even take
the guns. They go out with a knife and a
few dogs.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Four days later, on the of June twenty fourteen, Robert
Simmons makes the following additions to his statement.

Speaker 8 (11:49):
Sometime in the afternoon on Thursday twenty six June twenty fourteen,
I was at my home address when I heard the
sound of two gunshots. The shots sounded like they came
from a twenty two. I can't recall the exact time
I heard these shots, but it would have been about
half an hour before I received a telephone call from
the ambulance. I didn't think anything about the shots, as

(12:10):
my son David and his partner Amy and their friends
put up targets and shoot them often. It was only
when I got a phone call from the ambulance that
I thought David had been shot.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
And again, this is what Robert Simmons told police in
a statement on fourteenth of January twenty nineteen. We've only
included changes.

Speaker 8 (12:30):
David had been working for me doing land clearing and
wood shopping, but there wasn't much work around at the time.
I didn't know Amy very well. I didn't socialize with
them at all. I never went in their house, just
inside the shed. David and Amy didn't have an ideal relationship.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
It was a bit up and down.

Speaker 8 (12:47):
They had split up previously about a year before, but
not for very long. I noticed David had a mark
on his neck one day and I asked what it was.
David told me that Amy had stabbed him with some keys.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Hang on a minute five years ago. He said that
he'd only heard this from one of David's mates, and
he never said he'd seen a wound moving on.

Speaker 8 (13:07):
A couple of the guys that work for me, Tommy,
they had called into David and Amy's house in Pinjarra
and Saura go off. David asked me if I could
give Amy a letter to get a gun for Amy.
I was a little concerned about giving the letter to
Amy for her to get a gun, as she might
shoot David due to her temper, and that she could
go off quite easily. I told David this, but I

(13:28):
gave him the letter anyway, and she got a pink
twenty two. David was a bit of a drinker, more
like he had a bit of a drinking problem. He
had a friend back then, Gareth Price, who I didn't like,
as David and Gareth would drink a fair bit. I
knew David had used drugs back then, but didn't know
it was meth. I learned it was meth he was
using later on.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
It's interesting that while Robert Simmons was harsher on Amy
this time, even as he admits he didn't know her,
he also discusses his son's issues.

Speaker 8 (13:58):
On the twenty sixth June twenty fourteen, I was in
my office. I'm at home most of the time, nearly
every day. There would be no reason that David would
think I wasn't home. I was sitting in my office
when I heard three shots. It was sometime in the afternoon.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
It's worth noting here Robert Simmons says it's three shots now,
not two.

Speaker 8 (14:16):
I didn't think anything of it, as David and his
friends were always shooting down at the house. I used
to tell them to stop shooting, leave the parrots alone.
Use the twenty two as it doesn't make as much noise.
I was sitting in my office when the landline rang
and it was the SJA Saint John's Ambulance saying someone
had rung for an ambulance. My immediate thought was David

(14:37):
was running around in the bush trying to ring an ambulance.
I went into the house and as I stood near
the kitchen area, I could see into the main bedroom.
As I looked, I saw a gun on the floor.
Straight away, I knew it.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Was the four ten on the floor.

Speaker 8 (14:50):
The door of the bedroom was open enough for me
to walk straight in. I didn't have to shove the
door to get in. I've been around guns all my life,
and the first thing you do is pick them up
make sure they are clear. I picked up the four
ten to see if it had been fired. I knew
it had been fired. As I turned from putting the
cartridges on the table, I saw Amy's foot from behind
the bedroom door. It was just the foot that I

(15:13):
saw a black boot. I didn't notice the handle on
the bedroom door was missing. I do know the handles
used to always come off on the doors. I didn't
put the handle back on the door. I rang Triple
zero and made a call to the police. When I
spoke to police, I said, I think my son is
shot her. My immediate thought that David shot Amy was
because the gun was lying on the floor and a

(15:35):
jacket was over Amy's head. I told the police I
would meet them at the gate, and when I got
to the gate, I saw David's friend Gareth. He told
me what happened, which was a bit of a relief
as I knew then David hadn't shot Amy. The police
came up to the house around eleven PM and told
me it was suicide. David and Gareth arrived at my
house shortly after. I tried to get David to stay,

(15:57):
but he didn't want to stay. When arrived the next day,
I told him to take Amy's car, the white Commodore,
down to the gate for Nancy to pick up. I
didn't know if David went into the house or not.
Major crime detectives came to see me a couple of
days later, asking about the bullets, as the bullets were missing.
That's when I went down to the house to help
them look for the bullets. I did eventually talk to

(16:20):
David about what happened. I told him i'd only ask
him once. I asked David if he had anything to
do with Amy being shot. David said no, I then
told David to tell me word for word what happened.
David told me him and Gareth were going somewhere. David
said Amy smashed up the fish tanks that had.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Lizards in it.

Speaker 8 (16:39):
Amy packed the car up as she was going to
her mum's and David and Gareth were going out. Amy
went into the bedroom to pack up, and David put
the kids in the car. David went back into check
on Amy to ask if she was ready. The door
of the bedroom was shut. He knocked on the door
and asked if she was ready. Amy yelled out to
give her a bit more time, went back out to

(17:00):
the car, and that's when he heard a muffled shot
and ran inside and seen what had happened, ran back
outside and collapsed. That's when I think Gareth must have
gone inside. I never asked him again what happened. I
looked after him for a few days after Amy's death,
giving him some good meals, but David drifted away after
a while and then moved out.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
David is Robert Simmons' only son. Robert says he offered
David the smaller house on the property, which was halfway
between his house and the Southwestern Highway after David lost
his job. The house is only ten meters long and
six meters wide, not much bigger than a caravan really,

(17:47):
but David and Amy didn't have to pay rent, water
or electricity. This is Robert Simmons at the inquest held
in February twenty twenty one.

Speaker 8 (17:59):
That house was empty, so I thought I would help
them out financially. I said, look, just have it, get
yourselves together. It was hard to kids, and.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
All that made harder by David not wanting Amy to work. However,
as mentioned earlier, Amy wanted to break free of her
captivity and restore her independence. Her computer files showed she
had updated her resume and was applying for jobs. Counsel

(18:30):
assisting Sarah Tyler asks Robert about the place Amy died
in twenty fourteen and how the phone reception was there.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Not good.

Speaker 8 (18:42):
I had to run down to the bottom house when
I made the call to triple zero, because I knew
exactly where you could stand and get reception.

Speaker 9 (18:50):
Did you have a landline at your house? Yes, I did,
but there wasn't a landline at David and Amy's.

Speaker 8 (18:56):
That's correct. I'd put that little transportable home there. It's
a park home. You join it together, and it was
very small. I lived in it with two kids while
we built the house at the top. I was sitting
in my office and it must have been a warmer
day that day or something, even though it was winter.
I had my window open and I was sitting there
and I heard a couple of gun shots or two
or three. It was a twenty two. I've been around

(19:18):
guns all my life.

Speaker 10 (19:19):
I could sort of tell, you know, you could tell
the difference.

Speaker 8 (19:22):
I knew it was a shotgun or a three to eight,
or I knew what caliber of guns they had down
at the house. So I heard a couple of shots
and I thought nothing of it.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Deputy Corridor Sarah Linton.

Speaker 5 (19:32):
And you said you thought they were twenty two shots?
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (19:35):
They were twenty two? Yes, I guarantee it.

Speaker 8 (19:38):
They weren't the big gun and they weren't the shotgun,
so I knew they had three guns.

Speaker 10 (19:42):
So do you know what time that would have been?

Speaker 3 (19:45):
I was just I don't know.

Speaker 8 (19:47):
It wasn't far before because the ambulance people wrung me
about the call that had been made.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Robert stops himself here, wanting to tell the court. Something
else first, an event that occurred before David and Amy
moved to his property, but after David started working for him.
It involved a few of his other employees dropping him
off at his Pinjarra home after work one night.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
On the Monday.

Speaker 8 (20:13):
A couple of the boys said they had gone there
for a beer or something, but apparently that night when
they went in there they said, never seen Amy went
into a rage or something. Well, I didn't ask why
you know you have these things with young people. I
had better things to do. And then a bit later on,
I was in the car with David and he had
a big mark on his neck here and I said,

(20:34):
what happened to your neck? And he said, Amy stabbed
me in the neck with the car keys. And I said,
that's not acceptable, really, because if you had have stabbed
her in the neck with the car keys, you would
be in assault in jail. That shouldn't be going on.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
Just on that, just on the point where you were
talking about the boys mentioning seeing Amy in a bit
of a rage. Do you know who those boys were?

Speaker 3 (20:56):
One of them was called Clinton Clinton Simons.

Speaker 5 (20:59):
Apart from the incident that was described with Amy stabbing
David with the keys. Did you ever see or hear
about any other arguments between them?

Speaker 8 (21:07):
No, not in the most part of it. If ever
I saw Amy, she was always polite. I never had
a lot to do with Amy, and that I left
them to it. But she was always polite, nice to me,
and you know, seem caring with the kids and typically
young mum.

Speaker 5 (21:21):
Have you ever had any issues with him being violent
to women?

Speaker 3 (21:24):
No, not that I know of.

Speaker 8 (21:25):
No, No, I've never seen him violent to a woman. Know,
I've heard of different cases. Obviously they've had arguments, but
that's about it. I just let it go because I
think most relationships can't have a fiery argument.

Speaker 5 (21:38):
Now and then, did that relate to Amy or someone else?

Speaker 8 (21:41):
No, I think it was only with Amy. I think
because they've actually split up a while earlier and they
had a.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
Bit of that's where the volatile come in. And they
had actually split.

Speaker 8 (21:51):
Up for a while when they were still in Pinjarra,
and they got back together, as couples often do, come
and drift apart, have domestics.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
They're only young.

Speaker 5 (21:59):
How would you described their relationship before Amy died?

Speaker 8 (22:02):
Look, they did a fair bit together. They went out,
they would go horse riding. We had fish in the dam.
They were fishing. They had little quad bikes. They loved
it there, you know. And Amy was appreciative. She said,
I'm a lot closer to my friends and Armadale now,
like I can get to Armadale a lot easier. I'm
not spending the fuel all the way to Pinjarra because
it's about halfway, I suppose. And she said, we really

(22:25):
love it. It's quite out of the way.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
And she loved it.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Just as the deputy coroner steers him back towards the
day of Amy's death, Robert then remembers another story.

Speaker 8 (22:43):
I'll just take one step back again. Just before that,
Gareth and David had come down to give me a
bit of a hand. One morning, I had to chop
some trees up for the next door neighbor. So we
had done them, and Gareth and I and David went
back up to the little house and Amy was there
with a friend. Gareth and David did the little job
next door. And that was about ten o'clock in the morning,

(23:04):
and I was there and I took the cap off
and wanted to have a drink. And I said, that's
a bit early, you know, And I remember saying to
Amy and Gareth's wife, I said, I wouldn't put up
with that kind of thing, you know, I said, what's
wrong with you? You don't drink at ten in the morning.

Speaker 5 (23:19):
So when you say Gareth's wife, that's Rachel Price. That's
Amy's friend.

Speaker 8 (23:23):
I don't know who she was. I don't know if
she was his wife, girlfriend or what. I never hardly
knew Gareth at all.

Speaker 5 (23:30):
When did this happen? This ten o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 8 (23:33):
This was a while before, and I sort of said
to her, I wouldn't put up with drinking, you know.
I had to go and I just let them do it.
But I did tell them there that there were bottle
caps and stuff everywhere, and twenty two bullet shells laying
around everywhere. I said, clean the bloom and place up.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
This was.

Speaker 8 (23:50):
I didn't go in the shed too much. We're just
laying around along outside on the bit. That's like bitchumen
where the car park was. I said, clean the mess
up a bit. So anyway, there was obviously concern there
with the drinking and whatever was going on, But.

Speaker 5 (24:05):
Did you have concerns about David's drinking.

Speaker 8 (24:07):
Well, when someone gets a beer out at ten o'clock
in the morning. I did, and I didn't realize giving
them that house, I had actually made two mistakes. I'd
given them letters to get guns. Secondly, I had given
them a whole heap more cash to buy drugs and
alcohol because they're not paying any rent. Amy was on
a pension with two children, David was on a pension.

(24:27):
Plus they were selling the firewood. So suddenly, if you
got this surplus. I realized all this afterwards, in hindsight,
looking back, doing the right thing ended up probably being
the wrong thing.

Speaker 5 (24:38):
Did you ever see Amy drinking too much?

Speaker 3 (24:40):
Never saw Amy?

Speaker 5 (24:40):
Just David you were worried about? Yeah, yeah, did you
see either of them doing drugs?

Speaker 3 (24:45):
No?

Speaker 8 (24:46):
But I had heard and before. Like one thing, David
always fessed up. If I asked him, I said, are
you taking using drugs? Just a bit here and there?
You know, if I questioned him, I usually got the
truth the answers out of him.

Speaker 5 (24:59):
And talking about drug use just David or Amy as well.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Well, no one else was really my concern.

Speaker 5 (25:05):
Okay, no one told you anything about Amy like that.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
No, I wouldn't know if she took drugs or not.

Speaker 5 (25:10):
And I think you didn't fully finish your answer. But
you've never seen Amy drinking.

Speaker 8 (25:14):
No, I didn't have a lot to do with them, honestly.
I only spoke to Amy one time. She picked me
up from the airport. It's probably the longest chat I
had with her. She'd give me a lift, and probably
half a dozen or so times.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
Not that much.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Really, much of Robert's story is the same from here,
so again we'll just concentrate on additional or varying information.
Robert mentions lifting the jacket or something covering Amy's head.

Speaker 8 (25:41):
I pulled it, just checked to see that she was deceased,
took the cover off and looked, and just dropped it
back down again. And I started shaking by now, so
I've run outside, but it was still enough for where
to get a phone call. So I've rung not knowing
what the hell has gone on here. So then I
jumped in the car because we had a fire there
before an emergency. Could never find the place, so I

(26:01):
said to them, I will meet you down by the highway.
So I've gone five hundred meters down to the highway
and when I get down the road, Gareth is standing there,
and I said, what the hell swearing, what the affing
hell has happened up there?

Speaker 3 (26:15):
She shot herself?

Speaker 8 (26:16):
That that I think My second question in was who
moved the gun and put the jacket over a head?
And he said I did, I did. And then I said, well,
where the hell is David? And he said he's taking
the kids to Nancys. So, in one way, although this
tragic situation is there, I felt a relief that he
hadn't shot her.

Speaker 5 (26:34):
Were you concerned that David had shot Amy at that stage.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
When I walked in there? Well?

Speaker 8 (26:39):
As they said, the police and that were saying earlier,
if someone shot themselves, the gun is not over there,
is it? But in saying so, that's why when that
was my second question to him, instead of asking, I said,
who moved the gun and who put the towel over?

Speaker 3 (26:54):
He said I did, I did.

Speaker 8 (26:56):
So by now he has touched everything stuff, which is
as forensic said, it's not a good thing once it's
to prove innocence all the other way. The more something
is contaminated, the harder it is all round.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Robert Simmons goes on to conclude he completely believes David
and Gareth's story and can understand why detectives thought it
was suicide.

Speaker 8 (27:21):
I think it was easy to see what actually happened
in my view, and just if I had been an
investigator and looking at it. Look, I'm no expert, but
i have been around guns all my life, and I've
seen what different weapons can do and spatter patterns if
you're shooting stuff.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
That's what Kirkman thought. But of course, now, as everyone knows,
being an avid shooter doesn't make you a ballistics or
blood spatter expert. He's then asked to explain how he
could enter the room and not notice Amy.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
I don't remember having to push the door.

Speaker 8 (27:55):
Maybe I did because my heart was racing even before
i'd seen her, because I knew something was wrong, Maybe
because from someone of my size, and even when Gareth
first went into that room. Gareth is a fairly big fellow.
Amy is forty odd kilos. Easy if they had to
have pushed the door open to see to get they
would have pushed her out of the way and moved

(28:16):
her body to get in that room because that recess.
If she was any bigger, she wouldn't have got behind there.
She's only tiny. But mate, you know, I just saw
the gun, so in that instant I could see the gun,
but maybe the door had opened wider.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
I don't know.

Speaker 9 (28:31):
Do you remember seeing any blood on the gun? No,
what can you tell us about what you remember seeing
in terms of Amy's body's position, Where were her hands?

Speaker 10 (28:41):
Where were her legs?

Speaker 8 (28:42):
Well, I didn't take a lot of notice because I
just checked to see if she was alive. There's not
a lot of room in those small places. There's just
a bed and a built in robe. So if someone
had opened the door, it might have swept the legs
across whoever was in there first, because you wouldn't have
got in there. If she sat behind that door, you
wouldn't have got in there, like when Gareth. Whoever Gareth

(29:03):
was the first one in there, I think, and he
had to have swept pushed her to get in there,
so she would have moved for sure.

Speaker 5 (29:10):
Would it upset you? And you can say yes, so
we won't do it unless you agree to it. To
see a photo of her body at the time, just
so you can kind of discuss the legs, and we
won't do it if you think it was going to bed.
I don't want to retraumatize you.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Or no, that's all right.

Speaker 5 (29:25):
Do you recognize that as the bedroom and Amy in there?
And is it similar or different to what you saw
when you saw Amy once? What's her position like in
your memory as compared to that photograph.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
I thought she was more this way.

Speaker 5 (29:38):
When you say more this way, can you just explain
to me what you mean by that or to miss Tyler?

Speaker 8 (29:44):
Well, like I said, I couldn't be one hundred percent sure.
The photo speaks for itself, but I thought she was
more with the legs facing out towards the bed. It
looks like it has moved because when her foot was definitely.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
Sticking out to the end.

Speaker 8 (30:00):
Now if you I would say she has definitely been
moved there. I thought she was more around this way
towards the wall. And this is clearly showing her towards
the wardrobe, because I can tell you the door was
open like that and all I saw.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
Was a bit of footsticking out.

Speaker 8 (30:15):
Now that if you look at the photo, there's no
way in the world her feet are behind the door. Now,
it's no, It's just I would say one hundred percent
that she has been moved.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Just to clarify here, while we are privy to the photo,
Robert Simmons is being shown. We do know from documents
we've seen that when Amy was found, she had her
back against the wall of the built in wardrobe, sitting
lengthwise in the resetts, which is less than a meter long,
behind the door which opens inwards. So what Robert seems

(30:54):
to be saying is he thought Amy's back was more
against the wall between the built in wardrobe and the door,
so her right foot could be seen after he'd pushed
to open the door. Robert Is then asked about the
missing doorknob.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
No one used to fall off all the time. A
couple of them.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Did that, and the car key jacket placed on Amy's head.

Speaker 8 (31:20):
I didn't say a color or anything. I thought it
was a jacket, but a towel A jacket, I don't know.
You know, you're in a panic and I just lifted
what was on ahead. But yeah, I thought it was
a jacket, just in my mind. I thought it was
a jacket, but it was probably a towel.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
They move on to David's drinking problem and what Robert
thinks he's capable of under the influence.

Speaker 8 (31:45):
I guess everybody is capable of doing something when under
the influence of alcohol. That they wouldn't usually do. But
I wasn't that sort of concerned over things.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Like that, Robert says, on the night Amy died, David
and Gareth were full of alcohol.

Speaker 8 (31:59):
Well, I can't prove it, but they had been drinking.
It was just something they did all the time, so
I just assumed that that's what they had been doing.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Then there's the phone call David made to Robert while
he was still at the roadhouse before he dialed triple zero.
Robert denies having received it, even though phone records show
a call connecting. It was less than twenty seconds long,
but enough time for David to tell him what happened.

Speaker 10 (32:31):
On your mobile phone.

Speaker 9 (32:33):
There's a record at five twenty pm of an incoming
phone call from Serpentine Falls Roadhouse that lasted for thirteen seconds.
We know that David and Gareth went to the roadhouse
to call the emergency services.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
That was going to my landline.

Speaker 10 (32:47):
That was to your mobile phone.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
I don't think I never answer it.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Then, Robert says, when he went down to the house
where David and Amy lived, he checked out the perimeter.

Speaker 8 (32:56):
Out the back there was a knot in a tree
and they had been shooting when they were waiting for
or obviously they had had an argument, or so the
story went, and Amy was the kids were in the car,
and they were they'd been out shooting this knot in
the tree, and those were the shots I had heard.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
There's a little knot in the white gum out the side.

Speaker 8 (33:15):
I had seen the fresh bullet holes in the white
bark around that tree where they had been shooting. They
were out while Amy was packing up or something. I
don't know if it was all at the same time
or what, but they've been shooting at this tree and
shooting at birds and stuff. It wasn't longer after because
when he explained to me exactly what had happened, I
had a look, as I say, I had a look

(33:35):
at the bolletholes.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
In the tree there.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Just remember, the clothes David and Gareth provided to police
didn't have any gun residue on them, which, as Larry
Blanford points out, means they're not the ones they were
wearing when Amy died. So why wasn't this considered at
the inquest? What happened to the clothes they were wearing?

(34:03):
From a casual observer, Amy was subjected to much more
scrutiny during the proceedings than David, and much less sympathy.

Speaker 8 (34:15):
Even on that day. My son has never been the same.
He's drug and alcohol problem spiraled out of control. He's homeless,
he's half If you look at the pictures back then
when he was with Amy, he was quite still reasonably
healthy looking. If you saw him today, he's probably fifty
sixty kilos and just he has got a nice addiction

(34:35):
and still an alcohol problem.

Speaker 9 (34:37):
Has he talked to you about the impact Amy's death
has had on him?

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Yes, he has.

Speaker 8 (34:42):
Last time I saw David wasn't that long ago. I
tried to help him at various times, like for reasons
some things for your own health. You have to stay away,
even from people you love. I couldn't see him destroying
himself after Amy went, he went down, down, down, and
he's still down like he has been in and signed
into the Armidale Mental Ward a few times there.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
What do you call it? The mental health unit? Up there?

Speaker 9 (35:08):
Is there anything else that you know could assist the
coroner to make her determination in terms of Amy's death?

Speaker 8 (35:13):
Well, you know what, they didn't do it. There was
a whole lot of mistakes made there. I still say
that the first guy in there, the detective, knew what
he was doing and knew what he had seen.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
I'm sure he's a trained police officer.

Speaker 8 (35:26):
He wouldn't make the call in such a short space
of time if he wasn't really sure at the evidence again,
looking at the actual evidence. A few days later, the
major crime came back to me up the top. We've
got to go back down the house. Can you come
with me? I need you because I wasn't to re
enter the house. I said, well, what do you need
to look at? He said, We've lost the bullets that.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
Were in the gun. Anyway, we went in and we.

Speaker 8 (35:51):
Had to have a look for these bullets again because
they had been misplaced.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
The two that I had taken out apparently were gone.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
You heard right. The live and spent cartridges Robert Simmons
removed from the gun were gone, never to be found again.
The coroner asked more questions about it, but only seems
to consider the possibility of police being responsible for the
missing ammunition.

Speaker 5 (36:22):
Do you remember who was the first person you told
in terms of having opened the gun and taken the
bullets out? Can you remember who you told about that?
Would it have been the police officers who came and
saw you.

Speaker 8 (36:32):
I think it would have been, Yes, I didn't tell Yes.
I think it was the police.

Speaker 5 (36:37):
Right, So that conversation up at your house when they came,
I gather they came to give you a receipt for
things they'd seized. Is that right.

Speaker 8 (36:44):
I can't remember about a receipt, but they came up
and David and that were there.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
Was that the first time you kind of had a
proper conversation with police at all.

Speaker 8 (36:52):
I didn't even have a conversation with them that night.
They just said, look, yes, we're quite happy, you know,
to write it off as a suicide.

Speaker 9 (37:00):
Do you have any concerns about David having been the
person to pull the trigger to end Amy's life.

Speaker 8 (37:06):
I'm one hundred percent certain that he didn't. If I
thought he did it, I would be saying, like when
I rang the emergency services, I didn't try and cover
nothing up. I told them what I had seen. I
thought my son had killed his girlfriend. If someone had
done such a horrific crime, there's no way I would
be covering it up.

Speaker 10 (37:23):
You wouldn't lie to protect your son, of.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
Course, not.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Counsel assisting the family Peter Ward asked Robert Simmons about
his son's drug habit.

Speaker 11 (37:40):
You were aware that he was using drugs back in
twenty fourteen.

Speaker 8 (37:43):
Like I said earlier on, I wasn't aware they were
that the alcohol and drugs were getting out of hand
at the time, because he had worked for me and
on Worsley sites where you're you know, your alcohol and
drug tested all the time on mind sites. But I
wasn't aware till I went there and later on when
Gareth had pulled a beer out at ten o'clock in
the morning and I had looked around and seen all

(38:06):
the empty bollet shells and bottle caps lying around that,
I you know, things were starting to get out of hand,
as I said, giving him the free house and the
free everything, and they had excess money.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
It was it was a mistake on my part.

Speaker 11 (38:21):
But you know that he was using drugs at the time,
didn't you?

Speaker 3 (38:24):
Yes?

Speaker 11 (38:24):
Did you know what sort of drugs?

Speaker 8 (38:26):
I know he was using a bit of meth and
smoking weed, And again I you know, I used to
and I said, what are you you know? And he
would he would fess up if I cornered him on something.

Speaker 11 (38:37):
I appreciate you didn't realize at the time, yes, how
bad things were.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
No, I didn't.

Speaker 11 (38:42):
But you subsequently worked out how bad things were, didn't you.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yes.

Speaker 11 (38:45):
And one of the ways that you did work out
how bad things were was when you cleaned out the
house afterwards, you found a lot of letters that Amy
had written to about Alcoholavid about alcohol.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yes, yes, correct, those letters were actually posted notes. And
unfortunately we can only go on what Robert says was
in them because he chucked them away.

Speaker 8 (39:04):
Look, everything went, We cleaned the house up, and I
was in the middle of wanting to get ready get
ready to sell anyway, So this house I had lent
them was sort of a part time thing.

Speaker 11 (39:14):
I understand that. And you had quite a lot of
work to do to clean it up, a lot of work,
and in that process you found these letters and you
read them, and then you realized from.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
That how bad they were heartbreaking.

Speaker 11 (39:26):
Yes, how many letters were there?

Speaker 3 (39:28):
There were little.

Speaker 8 (39:28):
Notes around half a dozen a dozen I don't know exactly,
but it was enough to read and you know, see
just how sad the situation was, I suppose.

Speaker 11 (39:37):
And that made you realize that things were a lot
worse than you knew at the time.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
With his drinking and that yes, this is what the
coroner said in her findings about Robert Simmons evidence.

Speaker 5 (39:48):
SJA had notified David's father, Robert Simmons, that they had
received a call to send an ambulance to his property
from someone identified as David Simmons. Robert Simmons told the
operator he didn't know oh of any incident, but he
would go down to the house below and check. He
went down to the house and then called SJA back.
He stated that he found Amy dead and said someone

(40:11):
shot her. I think it must have been my son.
He's not here, then continued, my son made the mistake,
but she's been shot in the head and she's dead.
It is clear from this evidence of the inquest that
Robert Simmons assumed David had shot Amy because of the
position of the shotgun on the floor and the towel
covering her head. Mister Simmons then went down to the

(40:33):
front gate in order to direct emergency services in and
found Gareth, who explained that Amy had shot herself and
he had moved the gun and put the towel on
Amy's head. Mister Simmons gave evidence he was relieved and
from that time no longer believed David was responsible. At
the inquest, mister Simmons commented on the many mistakes during

(40:53):
the police investigation, including releasing the scene to him to
be cleaned, but also emphasized his belief that the initial
detectives made the right call, as he one hundred percent
believes Amy committed suicide. I considered Robert Simmons to be
an honest, forthright witness. He certainly had not tried to
hide his concerns about what David might have done when

(41:14):
he spoke to the emergency services operator after going into
the house at their request. Mister Simmons also gave evidence
that he said to David at a later time, I'm
going to ask you once, and then asked David to
talk him through exactly what happened when Amy died and
to tell him if he had any involvement in her death.
Mister Simmons gave evidence that David has never been the

(41:35):
same since that day. At the time of the inquest,
mister Simonds gave evidence that David's drug and alcohol problems
have spiraled out of control and is now homeless and
his mental and physical health is compromised. Mister Simonds said
he had tried to help him at various times, but ultimately,
for his own health and to protect other family members,
he has to stay away from David.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
On the fifteenth of September twenty fourteen, Gareth Price posted
or had someone else post this message on Facebook.

Speaker 6 (42:11):
I know what the game is.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
You're two Facebook. He says the C word.

Speaker 6 (42:15):
Time will tell.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
In reply, his ex wife Rachel says that it will.
David Simmons replies.

Speaker 6 (42:23):
I'll be home twentieth bro.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
You okay. Joshua Brydon also replies to Gareth, you okay, mate,
as does a bloke by the name of Clint Simons,
who says, hope.

Speaker 6 (42:34):
You're okay, mate.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Clint Simons. You may remember Robert talking about a Clinton
Simons who told him about Amy's rage. Could that be
the same guy?

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Then there's this Facebook message to Rachel mckerny on the
twenty sixth of June twenty eighteen, on the four year
anniversary of Amy's death. Well, you're a give up dog.
I no longer have a sister. It's gloves off. When
I see your next maggot, I'll be coming for you.

Speaker 5 (43:06):
So take your big hole and fuck off.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Somewhere for good you. The author of that message is
Rachel's sister Renee, who says she's with David Simmons. The
picture is a posed to saying once a snitch, always
a traitor at school, on the job in the streets.
The insinuation is that Rachel was not being loyal to

(43:27):
her mates, that maybe she wasn't being loyal to David Simmons.
Rachel was supposed to appear at the inquest, but didn't. However,
she did make this statement to police.

Speaker 12 (43:40):
I am twenty two years old and reside at an
address known to police with my husband, Gareth Price. We
have been married for nearly three years. We have a
two year old daughter. I've known David Simmons for over
seven years, mostly through my husband as they are good friends,
but my brother also knew him when we were children.
I met an Am Wensley approximately five years ago when

(44:02):
she started the relationship with David Simmons. I would call
Amy a good friend of mine and we see each
other several times a week. Both Gareth and I socialized
nearly every weekend with Amy and David, and our kids
are very close during the week. Starting twenty third of
June twenty fourteen. I saw Amy nearly every day except Monday.

(44:22):
I think on Wednesday, twenty fifth of June twenty fourteen,
Amy and I went to the movies together the boys,
Gareth and David stayed home to look after the kids.
Gareth and I stayed at Amy and David's house on
Wednesday night. On Thursday twenty sixth of June, Amy and
I went shopping in Armadale with the girls, Tay and
my daughter. We were trying to get a present for

(44:44):
Tay's birthday. Gareth went to work and I think David
went off with someone chopping wood. We got back to
Amy's house in Serpentine at approximately twelve thirty pm. We
gave the girls a bubble game to play with and
they went out the back to play. Amy and I
stayed in sud and just watched a bit of television.
While we were chatting. Amy seemed fine and I didn't

(45:05):
notice anything was wrong. She did not show any signs
of any problems. At approximately three fifty p m. I
left Amy's house with my daughter and went home. I
knew Gareth had been home at some stage during the day,
as some milk had been taken out of the freezer
and some lights had been left on. I just assumed
that he'd gone off pigging with the boys, as that's

(45:25):
what he usually does. Sometime later that night or early
in the morning, Gareth came home and woke me up.
He told me Amy was dead. I asked him if
he was serious, and he said yes, she blew her
head off. Gareth told me that David was at our
house and he was going to stay the night. I
said no worries. I left Gareth and David and walked

(45:46):
outside to try and deal with what had happened. I
walked back inside and sat next to Gareth, but I
was too upset and had to get up and walk
into the bedroom. I didn't want to get upset in
front of David, as I thought it would make him
feel worse. In the morning, Gareth got up around five
thirty am and drove down to the bottom of the
hill to tell his mate that he wasn't going to work.

(46:08):
Gareth came back up to the house and I asked
him what had happened. He just replied, like I said,
she shot herself. Gareth and David left the house for
the rest of the day and went out bush. I
went to my girlfriend's house for a few hours. I
then went to Trent's house, another friend, where I thought
Gareth and David might end up. Gareth and David turned
up at Trent's house and then we all went back

(46:30):
to our house at around five pm. We ended up
having a few people at our house as friends wanted
to come and support David. We didn't want to leave
David on his own and just wanted to support him.
David didn't really say a lot. He would talk in
general conversation and then you could see him get teary.
At one stage, he got up and kicked a bucket
and shouted in frustration, but Gareth just grabbed him and

(46:53):
hugged him. David and Amy appeared really happy lately. It
was the best I had seen them ever get on.
Amy never told me that there was a problem with
the relationship, and I've never seen Amy and David have
a physical argument or even a bad verbal argument. David
didn't talk about what happened, and no one pushed him,
as they just wanted him to try and relax. At

(47:15):
around ten ten pm, the police turned up at our
house and I attended Mundajong Police station to give this statement.
This statement is true to the best of my knowledge
and belief. I have made this statement knowing that if
it is tended in evidence, I will be guilty of
a crime if I have wilfully included in the statement
anything that I know to be false or that I
do not.

Speaker 5 (47:35):
Believe is true.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
It's stated the twenty seventh of June twenty fourteen, a
day after Amy's death. This is what the coroner said
in relation to her evidence and that of Amy's family.

Speaker 5 (47:48):
Weighing against the evidence of Amy's family is the evidence
that Amy has been diagnosed with anxiety and depression, which
has a known association with an increased risk of suicide,
and was clearly in a time tumultuous relationship that had
made her deeply unhappy at times. She had separated from
David a number of times, but they had always got
back together, which may well have created some sense of

(48:10):
futility in her mind as to her prospects of escaping
the relationship. Some of her own messages to friends and
even to David indicate that she felt caught in a
vicious cycle where she loved him and wanted to keep
her family unit together, but it felt like David, would
never change. I accept that Amy loved her daughters unconditionally,

(48:31):
but many people who love their family sadly do commit
suicide in moments of despair without thinking through the tragic consequences.
There is also evidence from Rachel Price that Amy spontaneously
raised the topic of suicide that day, although they did
not discuss it in detail, and various accounts that she
was behaving out of character and hysterical that night. Nevertheless,

(48:52):
I give some weight to the evidence of Amy's family
and friends that they do not believe it was in
her character to ever take her own life.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
I fucking hate him.

Speaker 5 (49:02):
He'd better not have hit you.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Did he fucking hit you?

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Just a reminder. The recollection by Nancy of her conversation
with Amy is the last known conversation Amy had with anyone,
and happened just minutes before her death.

Speaker 10 (49:15):
He grabbed me by the throat and he threw me
to the ground.

Speaker 11 (49:18):
What pack your shit.

Speaker 8 (49:20):
Pack some of the girl's stuff and come here.

Speaker 9 (49:22):
I don't care if you stay here a week, a month,
a year, I don't care.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
Get here now.

Speaker 5 (49:27):
In fact, I'll come up and I'll get you.

Speaker 4 (49:29):
No mom, hey, mom, oh, I will I'll see you soon.
I will can't, I will can't.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Rachel doesn't mention Amy raising suicide with her in her statement.
That evidence came from Gareth, who said that's what Rachel
told him. Earlier this year, we tracked Rachel down and
specifically asked her about Amy's demeanor in the lead up
to her dadh Hi Rachel. She was visibly upset when
we asked her about Amy, but we would be negligent

(50:08):
in our responsibility if we didn't try to talk to her.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
It's nice to meet you. I'm sorry to come to
your home, but we're doing a story about Amy, trying
to find out the truth about Amy, and we were
just wondering if you would mind talking to us about
not really know your old friend.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
Sorry, guys.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Had joint us to kids.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
Rachel.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
We just want to ask you about Amy and about
that last day because what you know and what you
could tell us might be really helpful. We're really doing this.
That's really nice of you to talk to us. Thank
you a little bit. I know it's difficult, but we're
really trying to do this for Am his family.

Speaker 4 (50:58):
Yeah, don't don't.

Speaker 11 (51:01):
I don't know what to say.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Well, just tell me a bit about your friendship with her.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
We were close, We had kids that were around the
same aid so used to hang out. The boys used
to go do their their thing, and I mean, Amy,
we would.

Speaker 5 (51:14):
Just do us and the kids.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
And you were with her, weren't you on that last day?

Speaker 4 (51:19):
That afternoon?

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (51:20):
And the day yes?

Speaker 3 (51:22):
What was she like?

Speaker 2 (51:23):
She was fine?

Speaker 4 (51:23):
We made we made Mars bar slice for the kids,
We got vegetables ready for the for dinner, and then
the boys were late, so I went home and then
that was it.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
And do you think that the suggestion she was suicidal
is correct? Do you think she was depressed that day?
I don't know, but you didn't. You didn't notice anything
strange or was it looking.

Speaker 7 (51:51):
For ends and strange?

Speaker 6 (51:52):
Eno?

Speaker 3 (51:52):
It was just an every day, just another day.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
It was just completely usual as far as you were concerned.
Did she bring up anything about harming herself? For was
there any sort of idea or suggestion?

Speaker 5 (52:08):
I don't want to answer the question.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Do you think people know what happened? Just before we go?
I want to ask you this. Do you think David
Simmons was involved? Do you think Gareth and Joshua know
more than what they're saying, Rachel, just tell me yes
or no. Okay, thank you.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Rachel seems to know more than she's willing to say,
but he's clearly fragile, and given the harassment she's received
from members of her own family, and that's just what
we know of her reluctance is unsurprising. Hopefully she'll receive
the support from people who do care about her well
being and that of her children, and perhaps feel more

(52:58):
comfortable discussing her feelings on what happened for Amy. Next week,
we speak to someone who knows the truth about Amy,
her partner, David Simmons.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Please ideas, what does it matter? What does it matter?

Speaker 3 (53:27):
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (53:27):
What does it matter? So you see.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
So this.

Speaker 10 (53:45):
We both know the nasty.

Speaker 6 (53:50):
JI.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
If you knew Amy and have information, any information about
her death, we'd love to hear from you. Just email
us at The Truth about Amy at seven dot com
dot au. That's s E V E N The Truth
about Amy at seven dot com dot au, or visit

(54:28):
our website sevenews dot com dot au forward slash the
Truth about Amy. You can also send us an anonymous
tip at www dot the Truth about Amy dot com.
If you're on Facebook or Instagram. You can follow us
to see photos and updates relevant to the case, but

(54:51):
for legal reasons, unfortunately you won't be able to make
any comments. And remember, if if you like what you're hearing,
don't forget to subscribe. Please rate and review our series
because it really helps new listeners to find us. Presenter

(55:13):
and executive producer Alison Sandy, Presenter and investigative journalist Liam Bartlett,
Sound design Mark Wright, Assistant producer Cassie Woodward, Graphics Jason Blanford,
and special thanks to Tim Clark and Brian Seymour. This

(55:47):
is a Seven News production.