November 6, 2023 • 36 mins
10 months ago, Eddie Jones was the lifeline Australian rugby union needed. But following a disaster of a World Cup - the Wallabies worst ever performance at the tournament - Eddie has quit. So how did it all go wrong for the Wallabies and where does it leave the future of the sport?
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Two Good Sports would like to acknowledge the traditional owners
of the land on which we record this podcast. That
will rundery people. This land was never seated, always was,
always will be. Hello and welcome to two good Sports
sports news told differently.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Georgia Tunny and I'm ab Jelmy.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
On today's show. How do you solve the problem?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Like the Wallaby or a dollar one? To see that
a dollar one? Anyway, It is a problem, George, the
Wallabies a huge one.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It is one of the biggest problems in Australian sport
that I can currently see. Australia's glamour, Green and Gold
team is arguably, I think it's fair to say, at
its lowest point in its history, it's coachless, tick trophy
less tick well, technically no major trophy since twenty fifteen,
penniless tick from all accounts, what we can work out
(00:54):
rudderless tick tick tick tick tick Because where to now
for Team Australia Rugby union in this country. Look, it
usually plays second, third, maybe even fourth fiddle to the
other football codes, at least domestically, but its national team
has always been a source of national pride. When Australia
(01:15):
is winning, everyone talks about it when they're not well.
Everyone talks about it for a little bit, then everyone
moves on when they're really not Everyone sees a headline
or two, but they don't read the entire article, which
is big warning signs because the latter has become the norm.
It's almost expected that the Wallabies won't win these days,
(01:38):
especially when you demote the most experienced players on the
team at the most critical of times.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Potentially a Rugby welcome and Australian's like watching names that
they know. Yeah, and when you've got a team full
of young players that you don't feel anything towards yet
did we try to run before we could crawl?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I think for this World Cup? Yes, I think that
could be fair to say. And you're right, jemy, because
in a world of fragmented attention spans, how do you
retain and obtain fans when there's a significant lack of
success and a significant lack of knowledge When it comes
to the stars that are even in the game right now?
(02:15):
What is going on at Rugby Australia. How the hell
do they turn this around? Where here to help? A
few thought bubbles from tell me and I.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
And how can one man look down the barrel and
say I'm committed, I'm staying, I'm coaching Australia. Then Eddie
Jones just let the door whack him on the way out.
It's remarkable.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Oh it's crazy. The name's Jones, Eddie Jones. What do
you do, sir?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
But you and I love him?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, still love him.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It's anyway, this is going to be our deep dive.
Strap yourself in. But headlines first.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Headline, one keeper says mine.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
It is the game and the day belongs to Australia,
the world champions England now officially.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Out of the tournament, on a week when bas ball
was included in the Colins Dictionary as a legit word.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Legit, legit.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
It's been included in the Collins Dictionary.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Ball, as in the description of how England play cricket
is in the Collins Dictionary.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
A style of Test cricket in which the batting side
attempts to gain the initiative by playing in a highly
aggressive manner. Well, England, they were playing aggressively to lose.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Remember when Bas McCollum was a bash brother, Yes with
Chris Lynn for the heat for me years ago and
now his name or nickname per Se is in the dictionary.
In the dictionary in relation to English cricket.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
That's right, ups and downs, ups and downs. Because the
world champions at one day cricket are out of the
current World Cup over in India after getting some humped.
I'm calling it sumped. I mean they lost to Australia
by thirty three runs, but we're going to say it
was a thumping because they finished last from first to last.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
But that's the nuances of bas ball. You win some,
you lose, and they just lose a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
So we're adding that to the definition.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Call me, but we do have to mention in terms
of headlines in Australian cricket, falling off the back of
a golf cart for Glenn Maxwell. God, this is a
crazy heally with a broken finger because of the dogs. Yes,
and now you've got too many blokes on a golf
cart and it gets a concussion. Glenn Maxwell the week
after he broke the record for the fastest ton we've
(04:26):
ever seen an ODR World Cup. So there's been highs
loads and big blows. But in the good news he's back,
so he is training. Wasn't available for that game against England,
but hopefully we will see Glen Maxwell again. We know
that Mitch Marsh traveled back to Western Australia for family reasons,
so he's hopeful that he will be returning for the
final stages of the tournament. And hey, the fact that
we're talking about Australia in the final stages of the
(04:48):
tournament that never ends, that never goes, is a good
thing because at the start there were a lot of
nassays for Australia. At the moment standing.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Check ye don't play that tape. Headline two's winner.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
For the best on Ground goes to Aaron Phillips at
La Crows. The winner at the twenty seventeen AFLW Best
in faris around the times ers and the winner is
with eleven votes.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
Aaron Phillips I got to witness firsthand the impact that
AFLW has had and not just female football but female
sport in this country and I cannot wait to run
out there with my teammates in front of the great
fans one last time.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
She should have formally changed her first name to and
the winner is to help MC's everywhere because Aaron Phillips
I honestly think she pays the tax of not being
Victorian in terms of how enormous her profile would be
should she have achieved everything she has in AFLW in
the state that is obsessed with it. But she is
(06:01):
an absolute champion. And before AFLW it beggars believed that
she was just a basketball champion as well. She switched
to football following a decorated basketball career including two w
NBA Championships and a World Cup gold medal. She's an
Olympian what and then is the aflw's most decorated player
(06:22):
with three flags? Yeah, three all Australian selections, two Club
Best in Ferris and two AFLW Best and Ferris Awards.
Just give her everything. An absolute champion I will now
call her forever and the winner.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Is also to know. Round ten concluded over the weekend
final round for the home and away season for the AFLW.
It is finals footy time. Well done Adelaide Crows, We'll
call it the winner is first club they are the
minor premiers. Then it was Melbourne North, Brisbane Sons, Cats
Bombers and the Swans. Sydney got in by the skin
(06:58):
of their teeth.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
He did not win a single game last year. If
there were mercy rules, they'd be lucky to play beyond
half in some of the game. It was tough. They
have recruited well, but my goodness in terms of a
one to eighty from one season to another, I am
so happy for the Swans to see him in a
final series.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Same so also the first time the Bombers are going
to take part in finals two and only they're sect
both of those clubs, and then there are second seasons
in this competition. So I'm excited to see who's gonna win.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And also Maddie Presspark has been like, oh Essendon in finals,
that's uncomfortable for the men's team. She came out and
said that she was like, well look at this, what's
it been seven thousand days for you?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Also North top four.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Headline three opens up for the shot.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
That's taking. Just when you think the Matildas have had
their time in the Sun, I remember that Mary Fowler
is the Sun. This strike was wonderful. That was in
our final qualifier in the second round of Olympic qualifiers
against Chinese type the Matilda's won three nil. Samka and
(08:11):
Tamika Yellop also scored. I'm not even gonna talk about
them because Fowler, my god, she's good.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Mary Fowler is the son that Georgie's life offs around.
It's not even a stretch. It's not when she's happy.
I'm happy when she's sad. But it is to see
the girls continuing to go from strength to strength. Unfortunately
we have to wait till February to see them take
on you Bekistan in the next round. That's date to
be confirmed. Just have it here, it'll be sold out,
(08:40):
it'll well a G.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
But will they have the G available because they want
to be playing in February. There's another little lady who
my life revolves around, who happens to be in Melbourne
at that time, Miss Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
And do you know what's bizarre if you ever told
me there'd be a world that Taylor Swift and Mary
Fowler would be in memes together. Yes, that go viral
because she happens to be dating. And again it's made
very very prominent news.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, just ken Nathan Cleary.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
So because Nathan Cleary of course, Panther star Ye Clive
Churchill medalist in potentially Yeah, Fair is being liken to
Travis kelsey as in Lowell. Look at these queens just
taking these boys out for a walk. Moore Nathan Cleary's that'
got the season. But what it's time to be alive mortalized,
hasn't heh?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
My gosh, It's just it's so wonderful and seriously, like
just the Matilda's train, it just keeps gaining speed.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Any footage of Sam Kerr giving a small weeping child
a jersey is always going to make my heart flutter,
and there was plenty of that over this tournament.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I can be a small weeping child, Sam, where's my
jersey here?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
You would be like, cool? Can you tell your friend Mary?
I say, right, oh, do you know who isn't giving
out jerseys at a moment in front of pack stadiums?
The Wallabies?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, it's bleak. It is bleak for Team Australia. How
did we get to this stage?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
How does Eddie Jones at many a press conference say
I'm not going anywhere and then all of a sudden
we don't have a coach of the Wallabies and nuance
to it. We can't technically blame him yet There's still
a lot of great play out here. But you can
only promise and do so much. I'm going to enter
the deep dove already, but we're gonna go. We're gonna go.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Growing up in the nineties and the early two thousands
the pin up team, at least for a girl from Queensland.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Was it the same in w A Jelmy for wallabyes?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
The Wallabies?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, I loved it. Yeah, I think everyone did. We
went to the pubs and the Wallabies playing.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, but you knew about them, right, they had that.
Oh the Wallabies, of course I get them, I see them,
I know them.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
George Gregan, Oh, George Gregan, John Eels, house old names.
Their faces were plastered to every billboard and I think
every main sponsorship had something to do with the Wallabies,
whereas now not so much. And I think that is
really telling in terms of just how bad rugby union
(11:21):
is faring at the moment in this country. Let me explain,
because domestically rugby in Australia has always struggled. Yes, it
struggled to gain attention, It struggled to get a seat
at the table compared to all of the other sports.
And I think that is because it set itself up
(11:42):
domestically as an international competition, so it was called the
Super Rugby. It began in nineteen ninety six. It had
teams from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa that would
compete down the track. A team from Japan and a
team from Argentina so joined a variation of the Super
(12:02):
Rugby competition. Now, why I say that overall the international
success and appeal of rugby is detrimental to it at
home for people to care about, is because you are
opening the door for all of the world's talent to
compete at home, and that means that all those Australian
teams that you are trying to build fan bases for
(12:25):
don't always have the same success as say your favorite
AFL team or your favorite NRL team. Since nineteen ninety six,
in whatever iteration of the Super Rugby competition that you
can find, an Australian team has won four times, just
four of those competitions and no one, None of them
(12:46):
have won since twenty fourteen, which was the Warritors, the
new South Wales team. The fact that there is just
no cut through, I think if I know, I'm in
Victoria right now. So rugby is confusing two Victorians anyway,
there are too Rugby league.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Isn't that just rugby. It's a real thing.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
It's a real thing. It's a real thing. But I
think if you were, you know, just walking down the
street and you grabbed someone and you said, what's your
favorite super rugby team, you'd be flat out getting anyone
to be able to name one, no idea. You have
to be sort of born into the family. You've got
to be born into this sport. And part of that
is being born into a wealthy family. Yes, to go
(13:27):
to a private school where they roll in the summer
and they play rugby in the window.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
You laugh, But it's true, it's true. It has a
history of being elitist.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, because NRL has always been painted as the public school,
yes sport, and rugby union as the private school.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yes sport. But all of that didn't matter when the
Wallabies were winning and we cared.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
That's right, that's right because to have rugby union be
talked about in this country, the national team, the Wallabies
have to.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Be doing well. Absolutely, they have to be doing well.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And that's what sets set aside from pretty much every
other code that we follow. So that brings us to
late September early October, when over in France we saw
images streamed over to our eyes of Wallabies players weeping
(14:20):
openly on the field because they had just cemented their
worst finish at a Rugby World Cup in history. The
Wallabies for the very first time, bowled out of the
Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
At the group stages, there were quotes from commentators saying
the Wallabies have hit rock bottom, Australia has been humiliated,
and it was yes, now, it was really difficult to watch.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
It was tough because you could see that it still
means a lot to the players. But then as a
fan and I have to say, like, I'm a rugby
league girl, but I've covered rugby union. My first job
in sports media was covering rugby union, so I have
a soft spot for it for me to see those
players in such distress and feel nothing because the names
that you do know, Quiet Cooper, Michael Hooper not there
(15:14):
in France because Eddie Jones, our coach at the time,
decided not to choose them, decided not.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
To pick them because he said that they weren't the
best leaders for the Wallabies going forward. And Eddie Jones
has been the fall guy for this entire World Cup
capitulation and that's because a few months out from the
World Cup he took over the reins in a very
very high profile bid by the Wallabies to say, look
(15:40):
who we've got the man, and he is the man.
He's one of the most recognizableok coaches in world rugby.
He's someone who's prickly in the media, but he gets
you talking about the Wallabies because sometimes you go and
you interview a coach and they go, we're taking it
round by round, really proud of the boys. That is
not Eddie Jones, and it's brilliant. But he was taking
(16:03):
the hit for these younger guys that were still learning,
still growing, and he even had the audacity to say
a couple of months out Australia could win the World Cup. Wrong, wrong, wrong,
you're wrong. But now what has made headlines and you
talk about rugby not being the headlines. The reason he
is now is Eddie Jones, after signing a very lucrative
(16:27):
five million dollars for five years contract, has sensationally quit
as senior coach after promising and promising I am committed
to Australian rugby.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Who is Eddie? Why do we love him because you
and I can sit here and dear listeners. He is
very prickly, but we still love him, and that, I
think is why he was chosen in the first place,
because you get an Eddie Jones on board and people
are going to talk about the sport that no one
talks about. Because he did start out with the Wallabies.
He coached them first, I think in two thousand and
(17:01):
one to two thousand and five, so he's had a
stint at the Wallabies. He then went to Japan, had
to stint coaching them there, led them to great success.
Then he had a stint with England, led them to
great success until he didn't and then he came back
to Australia and was meant to be this huge messiah
for us. He was going to deliver the Rugby World Cup,
(17:21):
take us to the Promised Land.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Why did we have such faith in him? And because
we'd seen him have success with England. Yeah, and we'd
seen him have success and make himself into a world brand.
So we finally came home. I think to understand Eddie
Jones and that demeanor, you sort of have to understand
what rugby meant to him. And he's actually written an autobiography,
so you can go into the depths of the nuances
of his family. But his mum was Japanese, his dad's
(17:44):
Australian and his mum was one of the first Japanese
people to come out to Australia. They grew up in
Tasmania and he thought, I've got to fit in here.
What can I do to fit in? Old play sport
and by his own admission, he was like a five eight, No,
not five eight the position. I'm five foot eight and
(18:05):
I've got no obvious physical abilities or skill. Played a
bit of cricket, played a bit of rugby league, but
with union. What he found is He's like, I needed
to have a ruthlessness, I needed to have an edge,
and I developed a bit of a mouth. Yeah, all
things that journalists a go yep, absolutely, and that was
what he became known for. But sport was his means
(18:25):
of fitting in and feeling like he belongs to Australian culture.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So he was turning the elitism of rugby union on
its head. So he signed with the Wallabies again in January.
I think in that deal there were expectations when it
came to the funding of the game and certain resources
that he was expecting to be met over his tenure
(18:48):
and probably early on in his ten uere as well.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And to sign a five year contract, yeah, to take
us to the xorld. And we understand that contracts are
pretty binding. But from our understanding now and what's being
reported the media, is there were many get out clauses
for both parties. Essentially Eddie was like, oh, do it
for five years, but you need to meet these expectations
and vice versa.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
And I think the level of commitment from Eddie at
least he loves to play a mind game or two. Oh,
and the cracks first started to show in May.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
Ah. Well, firstly, I'm winning kch to this World Cup, mate,
are you? Yeah, I've signed, but as I've made the
mistake before, I've stayed too long. So we win the
World Cup will be time the game we leave the
World Cup be time the game Eddie.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
The twenty twenty seven World Cup is back in Australia.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
They will absolutely want you to want you to be
part of that. It's a long way away, mate.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
That hard listener is what we call foreshadowing. Pardon yes,
in my mind, that's a little secret message to Rugby
Australia being like what you're doing, boys, Yeah, you are
not meeting your end of this agreement that we've got
and currently where the team is at and where I'm
at with it is not what anyone wants.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
It to be.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
First, those cracks then became crevices in our lead up
to the Rugby World Cup because the Wallabies lost all
five international fixtures ahead of the biggest tournament in that sport.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
It just felt a little bit murky. But I don't
think anyone coming up to the World Cup really knew
that we'd lost five internationals in a row, you.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Know, when they started to figure out that maybe not
all was well with the Wallabies and they were really
living up to their unfortunate Moniker of the Wobblies. And
that was during the group stages when we continued to lose. Yes,
we defeated Georgia. We should defeat Georgia, but there was
a shock loss to Fiji in there, which was not good.
(20:43):
Fiji had not defeated Us in rugby union the fifteen
man game.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
In sixty nine years.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
They did it this World Cup. Then everyone started to
go hang on a second, hang on a second, and
so that was when the questions really started to be
hitting home about what is going on this team. Around
about the same time, the first reports began to surface
about Eddie Jones, our Messiah Eddie talking to Team Japan
(21:10):
about maybe sussing out whether or not a head coaching
role was.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Going And all of this is amongst x grates like
Drew Mitchell coming out and saying Eddie Jones can say
that he's taking the heat all that he wants. He's
not going to lose his job, He's not going to
get subbed out for the next game. And it was
one of the more impassioned quotes that you'll ever see.
You are taking our pride away. You are depleting a
(21:35):
sport that's already on its knees. What are you doing?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
What are you doing? And are you talking to Japan?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Eddie?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Do you have a second interview lined up with the
j ref you?
Speaker 7 (21:45):
I said, I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Mate.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
Can you give all of his fans your absolute one
hundred percent commitment that you will not be coach of
Japan next year.
Speaker 7 (21:54):
I'm committed to Gage Austray next year. I'm committed to
Gage Austray that.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
Doesn't next question, please, we said one follow up.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
I really take umbrage at the questioning that people are
qushing my commitment caching Australia. Yeah. I've been working non
stop since I've come here, and I apologize for the
results I keep saying that, But to doubt my commitment
to the job I think is a bit red hot.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
None of this has aged well, no, no, no, no,
no no, because if we fast forward through some of
the rest of the results following that press conference, let's
because it's painful.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
It's painful, it's painful. So I'll speak through these wallabyes.
Thrashed by Whales forty points two six. No good, no good.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
That's the biggest ever loss at a World Cup.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Our biggest ever loss. That really did cement it. That
was the moment of players crying on the field. Yes,
when we needed a freaking miracle to make it through
to the group stages, we my.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
God to Portugal, try to deliver it to Will.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Freaking tried, they really really did, but it did not happen.
October eight was when we were officially out of the
World Cup in the group stage. October so four days later,
this story that won't go away More reports that Eddie Jones,
who we've just heard from there, is committed to coaching Australia,
(23:10):
shoring up on quitting the Wallabies to join Japan.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I think that Australian sporting fans understand or rebuild. Yes,
we understand it. Sometimes you need to level out to
start again. And you see it across all coats that
have had great success and help. The AFL system is
built that you almost need to level out. Geelong somehow
have never but you are meant to bottom out to
start again. But I think that if Eddie Jones had
(23:35):
affronted the media and said, look, this World Cup isn't
going to be a successful one for us. We are
going to blood young talent with all eyes on the
next World Cup, that is a home World Cup for rugby,
so that we can get the Wallabies back on the map.
But I am your man. I am not going anywhere.
(23:55):
Believe me, trust me, follow me. As players you go,
this is going to be pay now, gain later. As
the public you go. I get this, like we're rebuilding.
This is going to hurt for a bit. But instead
Eddie Jones was saying we might win this World.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Cup because you know who doesn't appreciate being told that
things are going to be tough for a little while,
but don't worry, I'll come good. Sponsors, sponsors and corporate
money do not like that. And so for a sport
that is already in significant financial distress, that is something
that you know, Eddie Jones and Team Australia.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Just could not literally afford to do. The sponsors weren't
coming anyway, George, take the hit. Take the hit, and Reba,
can you take the hit?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
When part of your original deal at bringing Eddie over
in the first place, Hamish mcclennan, the chair of Rugby Australia,
had promised him hundreds of millions of dollars of private
equity that was going to be invested into the game.
You know where we still haven't seen hundreds of millions
of dollars invested into the game because that deal has
been put on hold according to Hamish mcclennan. So all
(25:04):
of the resources there that were promised for Eddie at
that time, and for him to maintain the party line
of this is fine, we can win this. Let's build
some support for this really struggling team there.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And I think the thing that we know about Eddie Jones,
and again what we love about Eddie Jones. He is
incapable of just towing the line. Yes, So when he
looked at his list for a World Cup, instead of going,
we can consolidate here, play safe, leave these players in,
he's incapable of playing it safe. So that's not what
(25:36):
we got. But would it lead to future success? No
one knows. And in an interview very very recently with
Simon Jordan, he describes Eddie as a riddle wrapped in enigma.
One of the more fair descriptions that you'll ever see.
But this interview I found so telling. Firstly when he's
quizzed about his commitment to Australia and also his links
(26:00):
to Japan. Let's take a listen.
Speaker 7 (26:02):
Well, there's no offer from Japan. Let's be clear about that.
There's no offer. There never has been an offer. I'm
always connected to Japan. I've got Japanese Japanese cage. Japan.
The president happens to be a close personal friend of mine.
So then there's been the rumors fly around, but there's
been no job offer. There's been nothing at all. My
(26:22):
commitment is to Australia. But Australia has got to be committed.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
To me, of course, But as far as that conversation
is concerned, that's where it is. And do you expect
to be given the tools that you require?
Speaker 7 (26:35):
Well, Simon, you've been an owner. You know, as an
owner sometimes the circumstances changed, right, and contradiction is a
big part of all this. So the Australian Rugby Union
knows what.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
They've got to do.
Speaker 7 (26:47):
Yeah, I know what they've got to do. And now
it's no matter whether we can meet.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
But as far as you're taking the job, you were
very clear and unequivocal in what your expectations and they
were very clear and explicit in their understanding. So unless
they're going to pivot, then you're going to be coaching
Australia because they're going to give you the tools that
they need that you need. More importantly, a very.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Good summary, you know what, Georgie. It is a great summary,
because all of a sudden you sit back, as Eddie
Jones and you go, okay, So upfront, you've been clear
about what your expectations are. You want to be given
the tools to do this rebuild. The riding is on
the wall that those tools are not there, and that
is the rationale that Eddie gave mere days after that
(27:34):
interview when he stood down, he said, it's because the
resources that I need to complete this rebuild aren't being met.
And yes, he's probably talking to the head of Japanese
Rugby because he can see that his tenure with the
Wallabies isn't going to be sustainable.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Or at least he can't trust that it's going to
be right. In my mind, Eddie Jones has given Rugby
Australia a number of secret tears over this latest stint
of his coaching the Wallabies, his ten month stint.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Do you think all later through the press conferences, I
do not please.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I honestly do. And that little tests to see just
how Rugby Australia, and in particular the chair Hamish mcclennan,
responds to those You know he says there's no resources.
Do resources appear? It would seem no, because yes, I
think we can say. Look, Eddie has never confirmed that
he has had interviews with japan publicly for the head
(28:32):
coaching job.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
What do you mean He's been so direct.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
We know that there is a job going at the
head of Japanese rugby and.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
His dear friend that he speaks to regularly happens to
be the president.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
And if you would believe a lot of this country's
leading rugby union journalists, which I am very very keen
to do, his second interview for the Japanese coaching role
will take place next month and.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
He conveniently is going on a holiday to Japan. It
makes so many months.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
But but we've heard, you know, Eddie say that he's
happy to take the shellacking, the criticism that comes with,
you know, such a poor performance, such a poor public
performance for the national team.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Does believe that? Do you believe that? Yes?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
I do, But I also think it's because morally he
knows that it's not really his fault and that the
deal that he initially went into with this team, with
this sport hasn't been met. So I think he can
say that I'm happy to take all this criticism because
I know that I've upheld my end of the bargain
and there's deafening silence from Rugby Australia, which is what
(29:41):
we have seen.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
And he thinks in the wash that that will be
found out.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yes, but according to the chair Hamish McLennan, I mean,
he's not going anywhere.
Speaker 8 (29:49):
I'm not a quitter. In my business career, I've worked
with a lot of people who've gone through incredible hardship,
and you know, I want to teach my kids and
my family that you don't get up, and so I'm
really passionate about solving it for Rugby.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
There was a grab from a really awkward interview of
him arriving home from the Rugby World carp tail between
his legs, but you know, defiant, I'm not going anywhere. Reportedly,
his wife also went on to social media saying I'd
like to see all the critics out there try to
do my husband's job. It's impossible. But in that awkward interview,
(30:24):
McLennan goes on to say that Rugby is in a
far better position than it was three years ago when
he took over, and I just cannot see.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
How you cannot gaslight us into believing that that is true.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
And if you know Eddie now, if he does become
the head coach of Japan, I'm excited to hear more
interviews with him down the track about just what maybe
went down, what he was promised, what he did not get,
because I think that Australian rugby has an idea entity
crisis going on. Does it want to be the international
(31:04):
game that it has called itself for its entire existence?
And if it does, how on earth do you get
the resources at a grassroots level to develop players that
Australians want to care about. If you don't have the
domestic competition, a strong domestic competition for fans to grow
(31:25):
with and for you to build that popularity again, how
on earth does the international game even prosper I can't
see them turning things around.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
They've got four years for a rebuild, but about four
minutes to find a senior coach. Because people, when there
is such a public quitting, people turn around and go, well,
who now, yeah, and what now?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
And who volunteers a tribute for this shing?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
You have locked someone in supposedly for five years and
they are ten months in and say not for me. A.
The job doesn't look very attractive. B. There is no
prodigy waiting in the wings.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
No, that's it, and they'll have to turn to their
greats to try and lock in like a Stephen Larkham,
who's so well loved, who is so well loved because
he's from that nineties early two thousand's era of people
know yeah it's it's Michael Check is also being discussed.
He is being discussed a former Wallaby's coach, but he's
having too much fun with Argentina. Yeah, look, I joke,
(32:19):
but it's so serious And for all people who genuinely
love this sport, I feel for you because it is
on its knees.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Watch this space. But I think that we've hit where
the Wallabies were, where tragically they are now where we
hope for them to get back to, and the timeline
they have to grow from where is rock bottom? Do
we need a successful World Cup on home soil? How
is that going to happen without systemic change? And my god,
(32:50):
is this not the last we've heard from Eddy about it?
And let's all act really shocked when he becomes the
head coach.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Ah fun fact, tell me, did you know that there
is a trend in American sports where a team wins
a certain championship and champagne showers them the victors, which
I've always thought would just be so sticky, like why
why why why why?
Speaker 2 (33:32):
When my brain immediately goes to flon, yes, when they
are on Champagne showers big on the champagne. I also
think of the Australian cricket team when they didn't have
champagne showers but um quadra because it beliefs.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
And I thought that was wonderful.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Pack comans doing pat common things. I thought that was great.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, that was really good.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Champagne showers usually.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Usually massive in sport, usually synonymous with winning, and you're like, yes,
get the champagne, but did you know that that champagne
could be really dangerous.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Well, the Australian team can injure themselves in many scenarios.
I wouldn't trust them with a cork. Is that what
I say?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Apparently in twenty thirteen, a Miami Heat player Ray Allen
brought a pair of ski goggles into the locker room
after his team won the NBA Finals to protect his
eyes from the bubbly, which I just think is the
most NBA player thing to do, but.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Also the American confidence to be going in to a
final series been like, better get my goggles for all
that champagne we're going to be spraying later.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
This is apparently legit a thing. So after he did that,
Brand saw a clear opportunity to cash in providing pairs
of goggles to a winning team so they can spray
as much champagne as they like without any risk of
any of that alcoholic beverage getting into their poor, poor, poor, poor,
poor precious eyes, and also protecting them from any stray hawks.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
It does. Dem I have had champagne in my eye,
but not from ceremonious more than the bottle went everywhere.
I went, Oh my god, I don't know what I'm
doing here, because I've once had to saber at an
event and I got it wrong and it went in
my eye. I had to saber a champagne bottle again.
Things that are not relatablegies, but I did. I have
(35:21):
this massive sword and the champagne got of my eyes
and it stung. Oh my god, I need a goggle.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
You needed the goggles. You needed the goggles, and this
is raining. He sought me out, just pain goggles, which
does sound like what is that thing? Roast tinted glasses
or if you've got your beer goggles.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Beer goggles, rose colored glasses, rose colored glasses, and now
we've got champagne goggles.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, legit, I can't actually see this taking off though,
in your favorite sport. Tell me of f one because
it just wouldn't look cool enough. No, it's not cheak enough,
although ironically they would all ski.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Wealth.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Thank you, thank you for listening to do good sports
and iHeart production. Do you love Eddie?
Speaker 6 (36:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Do you love him? Do you love him?
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Do you hate him? I have to admit he is
both protagonist and antagonist and it's confusing.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Do you feel like someone can look down the barrel
and light to your face and then change tunes or
do you understand his frustration? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:19):
And do you actually follow rugby union? And if you do,
tell me why? Hit us up at two good sports
podcasts on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
I want to hear your thoughts. As always, don't be
complicated and be a good sport
Two Good Sports would like to acknowledge the traditional owners
of the land on which we record this podcast. That
will rundery people. This land was never seated, always was,
always will be. Hello and welcome to two good Sports
sports news told differently.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Georgia Tunny and I'm ab Jelmy.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
On today's show. How do you solve the problem?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Like the Wallaby or a dollar one? To see that
a dollar one? Anyway, It is a problem, George, the
Wallabies a huge one.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It is one of the biggest problems in Australian sport
that I can currently see. Australia's glamour, Green and Gold
team is arguably, I think it's fair to say, at
its lowest point in its history, it's coachless, tick trophy
less tick well, technically no major trophy since twenty fifteen,
penniless tick from all accounts, what we can work out
(00:54):
rudderless tick tick tick tick tick Because where to now
for Team Australia Rugby union in this country. Look, it
usually plays second, third, maybe even fourth fiddle to the
other football codes, at least domestically, but its national team
has always been a source of national pride. When Australia
(01:15):
is winning, everyone talks about it when they're not well.
Everyone talks about it for a little bit, then everyone
moves on when they're really not Everyone sees a headline
or two, but they don't read the entire article, which
is big warning signs because the latter has become the norm.
It's almost expected that the Wallabies won't win these days,
(01:38):
especially when you demote the most experienced players on the
team at the most critical of times.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Potentially a Rugby welcome and Australian's like watching names that
they know. Yeah, and when you've got a team full
of young players that you don't feel anything towards yet
did we try to run before we could crawl?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I think for this World Cup? Yes, I think that
could be fair to say. And you're right, jemy, because
in a world of fragmented attention spans, how do you
retain and obtain fans when there's a significant lack of
success and a significant lack of knowledge When it comes
to the stars that are even in the game right now?
(02:15):
What is going on at Rugby Australia. How the hell
do they turn this around? Where here to help? A
few thought bubbles from tell me and I.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
And how can one man look down the barrel and
say I'm committed, I'm staying, I'm coaching Australia. Then Eddie
Jones just let the door whack him on the way out.
It's remarkable.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Oh it's crazy. The name's Jones, Eddie Jones. What do
you do, sir?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
But you and I love him?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, still love him.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It's anyway, this is going to be our deep dive.
Strap yourself in. But headlines first.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Headline, one keeper says mine.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
It is the game and the day belongs to Australia,
the world champions England now officially.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Out of the tournament, on a week when bas ball
was included in the Colins Dictionary as a legit word.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Legit, legit.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
It's been included in the Collins Dictionary.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Ball, as in the description of how England play cricket
is in the Collins Dictionary.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
A style of Test cricket in which the batting side
attempts to gain the initiative by playing in a highly
aggressive manner. Well, England, they were playing aggressively to lose.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Remember when Bas McCollum was a bash brother, Yes with
Chris Lynn for the heat for me years ago and
now his name or nickname per Se is in the dictionary.
In the dictionary in relation to English cricket.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
That's right, ups and downs, ups and downs. Because the
world champions at one day cricket are out of the
current World Cup over in India after getting some humped.
I'm calling it sumped. I mean they lost to Australia
by thirty three runs, but we're going to say it
was a thumping because they finished last from first to last.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
But that's the nuances of bas ball. You win some,
you lose, and they just lose a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
So we're adding that to the definition.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Call me, but we do have to mention in terms
of headlines in Australian cricket, falling off the back of
a golf cart for Glenn Maxwell. God, this is a
crazy heally with a broken finger because of the dogs. Yes,
and now you've got too many blokes on a golf
cart and it gets a concussion. Glenn Maxwell the week
after he broke the record for the fastest ton we've
(04:26):
ever seen an ODR World Cup. So there's been highs
loads and big blows. But in the good news he's back,
so he is training. Wasn't available for that game against England,
but hopefully we will see Glen Maxwell again. We know
that Mitch Marsh traveled back to Western Australia for family reasons,
so he's hopeful that he will be returning for the
final stages of the tournament. And hey, the fact that
we're talking about Australia in the final stages of the
(04:48):
tournament that never ends, that never goes, is a good
thing because at the start there were a lot of
nassays for Australia. At the moment standing.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Check ye don't play that tape. Headline two's winner.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
For the best on Ground goes to Aaron Phillips at
La Crows. The winner at the twenty seventeen AFLW Best
in faris around the times ers and the winner is
with eleven votes.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
Aaron Phillips I got to witness firsthand the impact that
AFLW has had and not just female football but female
sport in this country and I cannot wait to run
out there with my teammates in front of the great
fans one last time.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
She should have formally changed her first name to and
the winner is to help MC's everywhere because Aaron Phillips
I honestly think she pays the tax of not being
Victorian in terms of how enormous her profile would be
should she have achieved everything she has in AFLW in
the state that is obsessed with it. But she is
(06:01):
an absolute champion. And before AFLW it beggars believed that
she was just a basketball champion as well. She switched
to football following a decorated basketball career including two w
NBA Championships and a World Cup gold medal. She's an
Olympian what and then is the aflw's most decorated player
(06:22):
with three flags? Yeah, three all Australian selections, two Club
Best in Ferris and two AFLW Best and Ferris Awards.
Just give her everything. An absolute champion I will now
call her forever and the winner.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Is also to know. Round ten concluded over the weekend
final round for the home and away season for the AFLW.
It is finals footy time. Well done Adelaide Crows, We'll
call it the winner is first club they are the
minor premiers. Then it was Melbourne North, Brisbane Sons, Cats
Bombers and the Swans. Sydney got in by the skin
(06:58):
of their teeth.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
He did not win a single game last year. If
there were mercy rules, they'd be lucky to play beyond
half in some of the game. It was tough. They
have recruited well, but my goodness in terms of a
one to eighty from one season to another, I am
so happy for the Swans to see him in a
final series.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Same so also the first time the Bombers are going
to take part in finals two and only they're sect
both of those clubs, and then there are second seasons
in this competition. So I'm excited to see who's gonna win.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And also Maddie Presspark has been like, oh Essendon in finals,
that's uncomfortable for the men's team. She came out and
said that she was like, well look at this, what's
it been seven thousand days for you?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Also North top four.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Headline three opens up for the shot.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
That's taking. Just when you think the Matildas have had
their time in the Sun, I remember that Mary Fowler
is the Sun. This strike was wonderful. That was in
our final qualifier in the second round of Olympic qualifiers
against Chinese type the Matilda's won three nil. Samka and
(08:11):
Tamika Yellop also scored. I'm not even gonna talk about
them because Fowler, my god, she's good.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Mary Fowler is the son that Georgie's life offs around.
It's not even a stretch. It's not when she's happy.
I'm happy when she's sad. But it is to see
the girls continuing to go from strength to strength. Unfortunately
we have to wait till February to see them take
on you Bekistan in the next round. That's date to
be confirmed. Just have it here, it'll be sold out,
(08:40):
it'll well a G.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
But will they have the G available because they want
to be playing in February. There's another little lady who
my life revolves around, who happens to be in Melbourne
at that time, Miss Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
And do you know what's bizarre if you ever told
me there'd be a world that Taylor Swift and Mary
Fowler would be in memes together. Yes, that go viral
because she happens to be dating. And again it's made
very very prominent news.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, just ken Nathan Cleary.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
So because Nathan Cleary of course, Panther star Ye Clive
Churchill medalist in potentially Yeah, Fair is being liken to
Travis kelsey as in Lowell. Look at these queens just
taking these boys out for a walk. Moore Nathan Cleary's that'
got the season. But what it's time to be alive mortalized,
hasn't heh?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
My gosh, It's just it's so wonderful and seriously, like
just the Matilda's train, it just keeps gaining speed.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Any footage of Sam Kerr giving a small weeping child
a jersey is always going to make my heart flutter,
and there was plenty of that over this tournament.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I can be a small weeping child, Sam, where's my
jersey here?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
You would be like, cool? Can you tell your friend Mary?
I say, right, oh, do you know who isn't giving
out jerseys at a moment in front of pack stadiums?
The Wallabies?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, it's bleak. It is bleak for Team Australia. How
did we get to this stage?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
How does Eddie Jones at many a press conference say
I'm not going anywhere and then all of a sudden
we don't have a coach of the Wallabies and nuance
to it. We can't technically blame him yet There's still
a lot of great play out here. But you can
only promise and do so much. I'm going to enter
the deep dove already, but we're gonna go. We're gonna go.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Growing up in the nineties and the early two thousands
the pin up team, at least for a girl from Queensland.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Was it the same in w A Jelmy for wallabyes?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
The Wallabies?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, I loved it. Yeah, I think everyone did. We
went to the pubs and the Wallabies playing.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, but you knew about them, right, they had that.
Oh the Wallabies, of course I get them, I see them,
I know them.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
George Gregan, Oh, George Gregan, John Eels, house old names.
Their faces were plastered to every billboard and I think
every main sponsorship had something to do with the Wallabies,
whereas now not so much. And I think that is
really telling in terms of just how bad rugby union
(11:21):
is faring at the moment in this country. Let me explain,
because domestically rugby in Australia has always struggled. Yes, it
struggled to gain attention, It struggled to get a seat
at the table compared to all of the other sports.
And I think that is because it set itself up
(11:42):
domestically as an international competition, so it was called the
Super Rugby. It began in nineteen ninety six. It had
teams from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa that would
compete down the track. A team from Japan and a
team from Argentina so joined a variation of the Super
(12:02):
Rugby competition. Now, why I say that overall the international
success and appeal of rugby is detrimental to it at
home for people to care about, is because you are
opening the door for all of the world's talent to
compete at home, and that means that all those Australian
teams that you are trying to build fan bases for
(12:25):
don't always have the same success as say your favorite
AFL team or your favorite NRL team. Since nineteen ninety six,
in whatever iteration of the Super Rugby competition that you
can find, an Australian team has won four times, just
four of those competitions and no one, None of them
(12:46):
have won since twenty fourteen, which was the Warritors, the
new South Wales team. The fact that there is just
no cut through, I think if I know, I'm in
Victoria right now. So rugby is confusing two Victorians anyway,
there are too Rugby league.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Isn't that just rugby. It's a real thing.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
It's a real thing. It's a real thing. But I
think if you were, you know, just walking down the
street and you grabbed someone and you said, what's your
favorite super rugby team, you'd be flat out getting anyone
to be able to name one, no idea. You have
to be sort of born into the family. You've got
to be born into this sport. And part of that
is being born into a wealthy family. Yes, to go
(13:27):
to a private school where they roll in the summer
and they play rugby in the window.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
You laugh, But it's true, it's true. It has a
history of being elitist.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, because NRL has always been painted as the public school,
yes sport, and rugby union as the private school.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yes sport. But all of that didn't matter when the
Wallabies were winning and we cared.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
That's right, that's right because to have rugby union be
talked about in this country, the national team, the Wallabies
have to.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Be doing well. Absolutely, they have to be doing well.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And that's what sets set aside from pretty much every
other code that we follow. So that brings us to
late September early October, when over in France we saw
images streamed over to our eyes of Wallabies players weeping
(14:20):
openly on the field because they had just cemented their
worst finish at a Rugby World Cup in history. The
Wallabies for the very first time, bowled out of the
Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
At the group stages, there were quotes from commentators saying
the Wallabies have hit rock bottom, Australia has been humiliated,
and it was yes, now, it was really difficult to watch.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
It was tough because you could see that it still
means a lot to the players. But then as a
fan and I have to say, like, I'm a rugby
league girl, but I've covered rugby union. My first job
in sports media was covering rugby union, so I have
a soft spot for it for me to see those
players in such distress and feel nothing because the names
that you do know, Quiet Cooper, Michael Hooper not there
(15:14):
in France because Eddie Jones, our coach at the time,
decided not to choose them, decided not.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
To pick them because he said that they weren't the
best leaders for the Wallabies going forward. And Eddie Jones
has been the fall guy for this entire World Cup
capitulation and that's because a few months out from the
World Cup he took over the reins in a very
very high profile bid by the Wallabies to say, look
(15:40):
who we've got the man, and he is the man.
He's one of the most recognizableok coaches in world rugby.
He's someone who's prickly in the media, but he gets
you talking about the Wallabies because sometimes you go and
you interview a coach and they go, we're taking it
round by round, really proud of the boys. That is
not Eddie Jones, and it's brilliant. But he was taking
(16:03):
the hit for these younger guys that were still learning,
still growing, and he even had the audacity to say
a couple of months out Australia could win the World Cup. Wrong, wrong, wrong,
you're wrong. But now what has made headlines and you
talk about rugby not being the headlines. The reason he
is now is Eddie Jones, after signing a very lucrative
(16:27):
five million dollars for five years contract, has sensationally quit
as senior coach after promising and promising I am committed
to Australian rugby.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Who is Eddie? Why do we love him because you
and I can sit here and dear listeners. He is
very prickly, but we still love him, and that, I
think is why he was chosen in the first place,
because you get an Eddie Jones on board and people
are going to talk about the sport that no one
talks about. Because he did start out with the Wallabies.
He coached them first, I think in two thousand and
(17:01):
one to two thousand and five, so he's had a
stint at the Wallabies. He then went to Japan, had
to stint coaching them there, led them to great success.
Then he had a stint with England, led them to
great success until he didn't and then he came back
to Australia and was meant to be this huge messiah
for us. He was going to deliver the Rugby World Cup,
(17:21):
take us to the Promised Land.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Why did we have such faith in him? And because
we'd seen him have success with England. Yeah, and we'd
seen him have success and make himself into a world brand.
So we finally came home. I think to understand Eddie
Jones and that demeanor, you sort of have to understand
what rugby meant to him. And he's actually written an autobiography,
so you can go into the depths of the nuances
of his family. But his mum was Japanese, his dad's
(17:44):
Australian and his mum was one of the first Japanese
people to come out to Australia. They grew up in
Tasmania and he thought, I've got to fit in here.
What can I do to fit in? Old play sport
and by his own admission, he was like a five eight, No,
not five eight the position. I'm five foot eight and
(18:05):
I've got no obvious physical abilities or skill. Played a
bit of cricket, played a bit of rugby league, but
with union. What he found is He's like, I needed
to have a ruthlessness, I needed to have an edge,
and I developed a bit of a mouth. Yeah, all
things that journalists a go yep, absolutely, and that was
what he became known for. But sport was his means
(18:25):
of fitting in and feeling like he belongs to Australian culture.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So he was turning the elitism of rugby union on
its head. So he signed with the Wallabies again in January.
I think in that deal there were expectations when it
came to the funding of the game and certain resources
that he was expecting to be met over his tenure
(18:48):
and probably early on in his ten uere as well.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And to sign a five year contract, yeah, to take
us to the xorld. And we understand that contracts are
pretty binding. But from our understanding now and what's being
reported the media, is there were many get out clauses
for both parties. Essentially Eddie was like, oh, do it
for five years, but you need to meet these expectations
and vice versa.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
And I think the level of commitment from Eddie at
least he loves to play a mind game or two. Oh,
and the cracks first started to show in May.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
Ah. Well, firstly, I'm winning kch to this World Cup, mate,
are you? Yeah, I've signed, but as I've made the
mistake before, I've stayed too long. So we win the
World Cup will be time the game we leave the
World Cup be time the game Eddie.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
The twenty twenty seven World Cup is back in Australia.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
They will absolutely want you to want you to be
part of that. It's a long way away, mate.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
That hard listener is what we call foreshadowing. Pardon yes,
in my mind, that's a little secret message to Rugby
Australia being like what you're doing, boys, Yeah, you are
not meeting your end of this agreement that we've got
and currently where the team is at and where I'm
at with it is not what anyone wants.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
It to be.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
First, those cracks then became crevices in our lead up
to the Rugby World Cup because the Wallabies lost all
five international fixtures ahead of the biggest tournament in that sport.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
It just felt a little bit murky. But I don't
think anyone coming up to the World Cup really knew
that we'd lost five internationals in a row, you.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Know, when they started to figure out that maybe not
all was well with the Wallabies and they were really
living up to their unfortunate Moniker of the Wobblies. And
that was during the group stages when we continued to lose. Yes,
we defeated Georgia. We should defeat Georgia, but there was
a shock loss to Fiji in there, which was not good.
(20:43):
Fiji had not defeated Us in rugby union the fifteen
man game.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
In sixty nine years.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
They did it this World Cup. Then everyone started to
go hang on a second, hang on a second, and
so that was when the questions really started to be
hitting home about what is going on this team. Around
about the same time, the first reports began to surface
about Eddie Jones, our Messiah Eddie talking to Team Japan
(21:10):
about maybe sussing out whether or not a head coaching
role was.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Going And all of this is amongst x grates like
Drew Mitchell coming out and saying Eddie Jones can say
that he's taking the heat all that he wants. He's
not going to lose his job, He's not going to
get subbed out for the next game. And it was
one of the more impassioned quotes that you'll ever see.
You are taking our pride away. You are depleting a
(21:35):
sport that's already on its knees. What are you doing?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
What are you doing? And are you talking to Japan?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Eddie?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Do you have a second interview lined up with the
j ref you?
Speaker 7 (21:45):
I said, I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Mate.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
Can you give all of his fans your absolute one
hundred percent commitment that you will not be coach of
Japan next year.
Speaker 7 (21:54):
I'm committed to Gage Austray next year. I'm committed to
Gage Austray that.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
Doesn't next question, please, we said one follow up.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
I really take umbrage at the questioning that people are
qushing my commitment caching Australia. Yeah. I've been working non
stop since I've come here, and I apologize for the
results I keep saying that, But to doubt my commitment
to the job I think is a bit red hot.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
None of this has aged well, no, no, no, no,
no no, because if we fast forward through some of
the rest of the results following that press conference, let's
because it's painful.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
It's painful, it's painful. So I'll speak through these wallabyes.
Thrashed by Whales forty points two six. No good, no good.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
That's the biggest ever loss at a World Cup.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Our biggest ever loss. That really did cement it. That
was the moment of players crying on the field. Yes,
when we needed a freaking miracle to make it through
to the group stages, we my.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
God to Portugal, try to deliver it to Will.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Freaking tried, they really really did, but it did not happen.
October eight was when we were officially out of the
World Cup in the group stage. October so four days later,
this story that won't go away More reports that Eddie Jones,
who we've just heard from there, is committed to coaching Australia,
(23:10):
shoring up on quitting the Wallabies to join Japan.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I think that Australian sporting fans understand or rebuild. Yes,
we understand it. Sometimes you need to level out to
start again. And you see it across all coats that
have had great success and help. The AFL system is
built that you almost need to level out. Geelong somehow
have never but you are meant to bottom out to
start again. But I think that if Eddie Jones had
(23:35):
affronted the media and said, look, this World Cup isn't
going to be a successful one for us. We are
going to blood young talent with all eyes on the
next World Cup, that is a home World Cup for rugby,
so that we can get the Wallabies back on the map.
But I am your man. I am not going anywhere.
(23:55):
Believe me, trust me, follow me. As players you go,
this is going to be pay now, gain later. As
the public you go. I get this, like we're rebuilding.
This is going to hurt for a bit. But instead
Eddie Jones was saying we might win this World.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Cup because you know who doesn't appreciate being told that
things are going to be tough for a little while,
but don't worry, I'll come good. Sponsors, sponsors and corporate
money do not like that. And so for a sport
that is already in significant financial distress, that is something
that you know, Eddie Jones and Team Australia.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Just could not literally afford to do. The sponsors weren't
coming anyway, George, take the hit. Take the hit, and Reba,
can you take the hit?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
When part of your original deal at bringing Eddie over
in the first place, Hamish mcclennan, the chair of Rugby Australia,
had promised him hundreds of millions of dollars of private
equity that was going to be invested into the game.
You know where we still haven't seen hundreds of millions
of dollars invested into the game because that deal has
been put on hold according to Hamish mcclennan. So all
(25:04):
of the resources there that were promised for Eddie at
that time, and for him to maintain the party line
of this is fine, we can win this. Let's build
some support for this really struggling team there.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And I think the thing that we know about Eddie Jones,
and again what we love about Eddie Jones. He is
incapable of just towing the line. Yes, So when he
looked at his list for a World Cup, instead of going,
we can consolidate here, play safe, leave these players in,
he's incapable of playing it safe. So that's not what
(25:36):
we got. But would it lead to future success? No
one knows. And in an interview very very recently with
Simon Jordan, he describes Eddie as a riddle wrapped in enigma.
One of the more fair descriptions that you'll ever see.
But this interview I found so telling. Firstly when he's
quizzed about his commitment to Australia and also his links
(26:00):
to Japan. Let's take a listen.
Speaker 7 (26:02):
Well, there's no offer from Japan. Let's be clear about that.
There's no offer. There never has been an offer. I'm
always connected to Japan. I've got Japanese Japanese cage. Japan.
The president happens to be a close personal friend of mine.
So then there's been the rumors fly around, but there's
been no job offer. There's been nothing at all. My
(26:22):
commitment is to Australia. But Australia has got to be committed.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
To me, of course, But as far as that conversation
is concerned, that's where it is. And do you expect
to be given the tools that you require?
Speaker 7 (26:35):
Well, Simon, you've been an owner. You know, as an
owner sometimes the circumstances changed, right, and contradiction is a
big part of all this. So the Australian Rugby Union
knows what.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
They've got to do.
Speaker 7 (26:47):
Yeah, I know what they've got to do. And now
it's no matter whether we can meet.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
But as far as you're taking the job, you were
very clear and unequivocal in what your expectations and they
were very clear and explicit in their understanding. So unless
they're going to pivot, then you're going to be coaching
Australia because they're going to give you the tools that
they need that you need. More importantly, a very.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Good summary, you know what, Georgie. It is a great summary,
because all of a sudden you sit back, as Eddie
Jones and you go, okay, So upfront, you've been clear
about what your expectations are. You want to be given
the tools to do this rebuild. The riding is on
the wall that those tools are not there, and that
is the rationale that Eddie gave mere days after that
(27:34):
interview when he stood down, he said, it's because the
resources that I need to complete this rebuild aren't being met.
And yes, he's probably talking to the head of Japanese
Rugby because he can see that his tenure with the
Wallabies isn't going to be sustainable.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Or at least he can't trust that it's going to
be right. In my mind, Eddie Jones has given Rugby
Australia a number of secret tears over this latest stint
of his coaching the Wallabies, his ten month stint.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Do you think all later through the press conferences, I
do not please.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I honestly do. And that little tests to see just
how Rugby Australia, and in particular the chair Hamish mcclennan,
responds to those You know he says there's no resources.
Do resources appear? It would seem no, because yes, I
think we can say. Look, Eddie has never confirmed that
he has had interviews with japan publicly for the head
(28:32):
coaching job.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
What do you mean He's been so direct.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
We know that there is a job going at the
head of Japanese rugby and.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
His dear friend that he speaks to regularly happens to
be the president.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
And if you would believe a lot of this country's
leading rugby union journalists, which I am very very keen
to do, his second interview for the Japanese coaching role
will take place next month and.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
He conveniently is going on a holiday to Japan. It
makes so many months.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
But but we've heard, you know, Eddie say that he's
happy to take the shellacking, the criticism that comes with,
you know, such a poor performance, such a poor public
performance for the national team.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Does believe that? Do you believe that? Yes?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
I do, But I also think it's because morally he
knows that it's not really his fault and that the
deal that he initially went into with this team, with
this sport hasn't been met. So I think he can
say that I'm happy to take all this criticism because
I know that I've upheld my end of the bargain
and there's deafening silence from Rugby Australia, which is what
(29:41):
we have seen.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
And he thinks in the wash that that will be
found out.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yes, but according to the chair Hamish McLennan, I mean,
he's not going anywhere.
Speaker 8 (29:49):
I'm not a quitter. In my business career, I've worked
with a lot of people who've gone through incredible hardship,
and you know, I want to teach my kids and
my family that you don't get up, and so I'm
really passionate about solving it for Rugby.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
There was a grab from a really awkward interview of
him arriving home from the Rugby World carp tail between
his legs, but you know, defiant, I'm not going anywhere. Reportedly,
his wife also went on to social media saying I'd
like to see all the critics out there try to
do my husband's job. It's impossible. But in that awkward interview,
(30:24):
McLennan goes on to say that Rugby is in a
far better position than it was three years ago when
he took over, and I just cannot see.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
How you cannot gaslight us into believing that that is true.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
And if you know Eddie now, if he does become
the head coach of Japan, I'm excited to hear more
interviews with him down the track about just what maybe
went down, what he was promised, what he did not get,
because I think that Australian rugby has an idea entity
crisis going on. Does it want to be the international
(31:04):
game that it has called itself for its entire existence?
And if it does, how on earth do you get
the resources at a grassroots level to develop players that
Australians want to care about. If you don't have the
domestic competition, a strong domestic competition for fans to grow
(31:25):
with and for you to build that popularity again, how
on earth does the international game even prosper I can't
see them turning things around.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
They've got four years for a rebuild, but about four
minutes to find a senior coach. Because people, when there
is such a public quitting, people turn around and go, well,
who now, yeah, and what now?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
And who volunteers a tribute for this shing?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
You have locked someone in supposedly for five years and
they are ten months in and say not for me. A.
The job doesn't look very attractive. B. There is no
prodigy waiting in the wings.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
No, that's it, and they'll have to turn to their
greats to try and lock in like a Stephen Larkham,
who's so well loved, who is so well loved because
he's from that nineties early two thousand's era of people
know yeah it's it's Michael Check is also being discussed.
He is being discussed a former Wallaby's coach, but he's
having too much fun with Argentina. Yeah, look, I joke,
(32:19):
but it's so serious And for all people who genuinely
love this sport, I feel for you because it is
on its knees.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Watch this space. But I think that we've hit where
the Wallabies were, where tragically they are now where we
hope for them to get back to, and the timeline
they have to grow from where is rock bottom? Do
we need a successful World Cup on home soil? How
is that going to happen without systemic change? And my god,
(32:50):
is this not the last we've heard from Eddy about it?
And let's all act really shocked when he becomes the
head coach.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Ah fun fact, tell me, did you know that there
is a trend in American sports where a team wins
a certain championship and champagne showers them the victors, which
I've always thought would just be so sticky, like why
why why why why?
Speaker 2 (33:32):
When my brain immediately goes to flon, yes, when they
are on Champagne showers big on the champagne. I also
think of the Australian cricket team when they didn't have
champagne showers but um quadra because it beliefs.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
And I thought that was wonderful.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Pack comans doing pat common things. I thought that was great.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, that was really good.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Champagne showers usually.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Usually massive in sport, usually synonymous with winning, and you're like, yes,
get the champagne, but did you know that that champagne
could be really dangerous.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Well, the Australian team can injure themselves in many scenarios.
I wouldn't trust them with a cork. Is that what
I say?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Apparently in twenty thirteen, a Miami Heat player Ray Allen
brought a pair of ski goggles into the locker room
after his team won the NBA Finals to protect his
eyes from the bubbly, which I just think is the
most NBA player thing to do, but.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Also the American confidence to be going in to a
final series been like, better get my goggles for all
that champagne we're going to be spraying later.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
This is apparently legit a thing. So after he did that,
Brand saw a clear opportunity to cash in providing pairs
of goggles to a winning team so they can spray
as much champagne as they like without any risk of
any of that alcoholic beverage getting into their poor, poor, poor, poor,
poor precious eyes, and also protecting them from any stray hawks.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
It does. Dem I have had champagne in my eye,
but not from ceremonious more than the bottle went everywhere.
I went, Oh my god, I don't know what I'm
doing here, because I've once had to saber at an
event and I got it wrong and it went in
my eye. I had to saber a champagne bottle again.
Things that are not relatablegies, but I did. I have
(35:21):
this massive sword and the champagne got of my eyes
and it stung. Oh my god, I need a goggle.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
You needed the goggles. You needed the goggles, and this
is raining. He sought me out, just pain goggles, which
does sound like what is that thing? Roast tinted glasses
or if you've got your beer goggles.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Beer goggles, rose colored glasses, rose colored glasses, and now
we've got champagne goggles.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, legit, I can't actually see this taking off though,
in your favorite sport. Tell me of f one because
it just wouldn't look cool enough. No, it's not cheak enough,
although ironically they would all ski.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Wealth.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Thank you, thank you for listening to do good sports
and iHeart production. Do you love Eddie?
Speaker 6 (36:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Do you love him? Do you love him?
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Do you hate him? I have to admit he is
both protagonist and antagonist and it's confusing.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Do you feel like someone can look down the barrel
and light to your face and then change tunes or
do you understand his frustration? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:19):
And do you actually follow rugby union? And if you do,
tell me why? Hit us up at two good sports
podcasts on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
I want to hear your thoughts. As always, don't be
complicated and be a good sport
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