February 5, 2025 • 10 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's talk about Sam Kerr.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Pretty extraordinary incident that's going on in London right now.
We're about to be joined by Ben Downey, who's a
European correspondent for seven years, so he'll give us the
updated details on this one. But if you haven't heard
any of the Sam Curve stuff, from what I understand,
her and a fiance, Christy Mwis, are in a taxi.
I believe Sam has had had had a vomit in
(00:22):
the taxi, which I mean trueth might we've all done it,
a bit of motion sickness after you know, after a
potentially a poor prawn. You know, I don't feel like
I don't feel like that's that bad. I think there's
a there's a bit of a disagreement that goes on
in the taxi where I think her and Christy are
refusing to pay a cleaning fee after the vombing the cab.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Now there's been things.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It's interesting because then the driver decides, the driver of
the taxi decides to lock the doors. Yea very scary
move for two women in a in a cab. That's
very scary for a text driver to then just lock
the doors suddenly and his his idea is to drive
them to a police station because he's worried about them
refusing to pay the cleaning fee. At that point, Sam
(01:05):
and the fiance Christy, they're panicking, freaking out. They're worried
they're getting kidnaped because someone's just locked the doors in
a taxi and they start kicking, punching windows, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
And then when they get to the police station, I'm
pretty sure.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
By the way, there's like a nearly a distress call
that goes out from one of their fones because they're
so scared.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
And understandably, if someone locks the car doors while you're
in that's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, well it's false imprisonment. I mean, it's peering it
a taxi is not an offense. Locking someone at a cart.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Is absolutely Then they get into the police station.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm going to play some audio right now because this
is a big part of this is why this this
police officer, Stephen Lovell is now suing Sam Kerr because
he has said he was he was left feeling shocked,
upset and humiliated after some words that Sam said to him.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So this is Sam in the police station.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Honestly, we have stupid and white.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Okay, I'm not worried so stupid. I'm over this.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
This is the world problem.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So he's having issues with that obviously. And so now
all this stuff's going through the courts and whatnot. But
we've got Ben Downey here, who's over there in Europe. Benny,
you're following the court case. Can you tell us any
recent updates?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
My friends?
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Yeah, so Sam, the most recent update is today in
the UK. So it's six o'clock local time. Samko is
going to take the stand. She's shed along with her
partner and fellow footballer, Christine Muers, who plays for the
club West Ham. They're both going to take the stand
to defend their actions that night as they plead guilty
to not racially plead not guilty to racially harassing that
(02:51):
police officer. So yesterday what really centered around and legal
team zeroed in on this was the discrepancy in the
police officer's account because that night, where Sam Kerr admits
she called that police officer stupid and white, well, he
made a statement and in that statement he made no
mention of any harm or hurt he suffered. But eleven
(03:13):
months later, when the Crown prosecutors here in London didn't
have enough evidence to charge Kerr was racially harassing him. Well,
he made a second statement and that's when he said
it left him hurt and upset, and that discrepancy is
what they said, was what Kerrz lawyers said that they
basically concocted this evidence to get that charge over the line.
Now the officer denies this, but he did admit on
(03:36):
the stand that he was determined to pursue Sam Kerkr,
Matilda's captain through the courts. So that was probably the
biggest thing that the officer that Sam Kerr had called
stupid and white, who claims he racially agrees in this matter,
he basically had delivered two different sets of accounts and
changed it so they could have enough evidence to pursue
(03:56):
this charge against her.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Hey been a couple of things that I've kind of read.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I'd just love to hear whether they're clarified or not,
because we're obviously Tim Kerr in the studio. First of all,
did she call him a see you next tuesday in court?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
The other day?
Speaker 5 (04:12):
Not in court? No, definitely, not in court.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I think I think that I think that that's it
that has that has been.
Speaker 6 (04:20):
So there's yeah, so that that that that that term
was used on a police recording, wasn't at the police officer,
but that was used against the cabby.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
The other thing that I that I also saw, which
I thought was very funny, was so she's she's vomited
in the taxi and apparently to prove to the police
officer in the police station that like, it wasn't about
cleaning up the vomit in the cab. She's opened her
bank account and flashed the police officer how much money
(04:50):
was just.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
To say, mate, it's not about the cash. I could
do this right now.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Yeah, yeah, she definitely did that.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
More serious question now, So the taxi driver in all
of this, I find what he did like horrific, locking
the doors and effectively making Sam and a fiance a
prisoner in a car.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Is he getting punished at all through all of this?
Speaker 5 (05:15):
No, so like, and the thing about this cab is
that what was made clear yesterday is that he said that,
and according to the police that he asked Sam stutit
in the cab, He's called the police and then he's
driven to the station. But Sam's version of events is
that he's just directly driven to the station, and at
no point was it ever communicate to them that he
(05:36):
had called police or that the police had told to
go there. Now, the thing to be clear is though
that Sam here is not on trial for vomiting a
cab the cab. He's not on trial for kidnapping or
deprivation of liberty Sam and even on trial for calling
the police officers stupid and white. The only thing she's
on trial for is intending to harm him by using
the words stupid and white. And so there's a really
(05:57):
narrow scope that the police can try and arrestaur on. You, Like,
what was she just exasperated us through a one hour
interview when she said there's comments at her wits end?
Or was she really trying to villify him and the
only way they can get a condition across the line,
if they can improve, she was trying to villify and
harass this police officer.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
So, Ben, this is just one of the couples. So
I think this is the sticking point for me. This
is what we've been talking about in the studio, in
the in the song. So for me, if we're talking
about like I assume that there's there's like a racial
thing going on here, which I think is as I
said to you before, I'm not sure if you're here,
but what he was saying, who's on this guy's team?
And I think that the fascinating thing is that there
(06:35):
probably are people on his team who are going like, oh, well,
you know, we're not if we're not allowed to use
you know, racial stereo stereotyping language, you know, with people
of color, why should they be able to do it
with white people? Which I look, I don't think it
needs to be said, that's the dumbest thing in the world.
But I do think what's really interesting about it is like,
if there's legislation which says you cannot stereotype or racially
(07:00):
brand somebody because of their skin color or where they
come from, the court is going to have to decide
in some sort of a way whether or not you
can be racist towards a white person, which.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I feel is like the crux of his argument.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
Yeah, it's it's interesting it and you know Samka actually
responds to this. Yesterday would play the second recording of
a police interview, one that hasn't been there's only a
bit recently been released where a second officer asks her, Hey,
do you know that if you call someone white you
can be racist? And Samka in this interview says, well,
I can understand you could probably interpreted anything can be
interpreted as racist if you twisted enough effectively and paraphrasing
(07:39):
her there, but you know it's well, another thing I
should point out as well is that, like Samko has
also explained to this cop, you know, you're a man.
You don't know what it's like to be a woman
in the back of a cab being driven around by
a bloke who's not telling you where you're going. Now,
the cop hasn't charged her for you know, a sexist
remarkment from calling him a man for not knowing what
(08:02):
it's like, you know, likeem is like she's trying to
explain in circumstance, you know, you're not understanding where I'm
coming from. Yes, obviously sees it very differently. Yes, yes,
this is exactly you put it correctly. It's all turning
on the interpretation whether she's trying to harm this police officer,
(08:24):
which could.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Make it even bigger because Tommy our button pushing here,
we're saying before we listen to the audio again, she says,
you're stupid and white. She doesn't say you're stupid and
white in the same run of words, which is just
like a way to brand him for being white. She's
trying to say, you don't get where I'm coming from.
I'm a colored woman, you're stupid and white. You don't
(08:48):
you can't empathize with me, which I think is what
it feels as if that's kind of what she's trying
to say.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Well, her next words, sorry to cut you off, but
like her next word is like, this is the world problem.
But I think she's talking to yes, like she would argue,
she would argue, I'm talking to a global issue around
like power structures. This is what legal have said out.
She might have poorly expressed this, but that, in her
legal team's view, is how she's trying to express this view.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Absolutely, Hey, Benny, before we do, let you go, Like,
what sort of punishment is she facing if she is
found guilty of this?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Like is this like is this prison time? Is this
a fine?
Speaker 6 (09:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
What is it?
Speaker 5 (09:28):
So punishment hasn't been directly discussed in the trial, and
like the head sentence of the maximum penalty for this
could see ole time. This is nowhere near I mean
in Benjamin Downey King's Council talking here like I'm not
a law degree, Like this is not approaching that threshold.
This is we're talking a fine and stuff on the wrist.
(09:49):
For she's not interested in the fine, she's not interested
in the time. She's interested in clearing her name.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
That's why she's here, that's why she's still.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
Doing and today we'll hear from her.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
That's awesome, Ben, But hopefully we can speak to you
again tomorrow just to hear exactly what Sam curse ex
and I'm sure they'll be passed everyone's bed time a
little bit later on. Ben Downey seven years European correspondent.
Ben's been great to have you on the show, Mate,
Let's talk about Sam Kerr.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Pretty extraordinary incident that's going on in London right now.
We're about to be joined by Ben Downey, who's a
European correspondent for seven years, so he'll give us the
updated details on this one. But if you haven't heard
any of the Sam Curve stuff, from what I understand,
her and a fiance, Christy Mwis, are in a taxi.
I believe Sam has had had had a vomit in
(00:22):
the taxi, which I mean trueth might we've all done it,
a bit of motion sickness after you know, after a
potentially a poor prawn. You know, I don't feel like
I don't feel like that's that bad. I think there's
a there's a bit of a disagreement that goes on
in the taxi where I think her and Christy are
refusing to pay a cleaning fee after the vombing the cab.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Now there's been things.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It's interesting because then the driver decides, the driver of
the taxi decides to lock the doors. Yea very scary
move for two women in a in a cab. That's
very scary for a text driver to then just lock
the doors suddenly and his his idea is to drive
them to a police station because he's worried about them
refusing to pay the cleaning fee. At that point, Sam
(01:05):
and the fiance Christy, they're panicking, freaking out. They're worried
they're getting kidnaped because someone's just locked the doors in
a taxi and they start kicking, punching windows, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
And then when they get to the police station, I'm
pretty sure.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
By the way, there's like a nearly a distress call
that goes out from one of their fones because they're
so scared.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
And understandably, if someone locks the car doors while you're
in that's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, well it's false imprisonment. I mean, it's peering it
a taxi is not an offense. Locking someone at a cart.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Is absolutely Then they get into the police station.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm going to play some audio right now because this
is a big part of this is why this this
police officer, Stephen Lovell is now suing Sam Kerr because
he has said he was he was left feeling shocked,
upset and humiliated after some words that Sam said to him.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So this is Sam in the police station.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Honestly, we have stupid and white.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Okay, I'm not worried so stupid. I'm over this.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
This is the world problem.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So he's having issues with that obviously. And so now
all this stuff's going through the courts and whatnot. But
we've got Ben Downey here, who's over there in Europe. Benny,
you're following the court case. Can you tell us any
recent updates?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
My friends?
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Yeah, so Sam, the most recent update is today in
the UK. So it's six o'clock local time. Samko is
going to take the stand. She's shed along with her
partner and fellow footballer, Christine Muers, who plays for the
club West Ham. They're both going to take the stand
to defend their actions that night as they plead guilty
to not racially plead not guilty to racially harassing that
(02:51):
police officer. So yesterday what really centered around and legal
team zeroed in on this was the discrepancy in the
police officer's account because that night, where Sam Kerr admits
she called that police officer stupid and white, well, he
made a statement and in that statement he made no
mention of any harm or hurt he suffered. But eleven
(03:13):
months later, when the Crown prosecutors here in London didn't
have enough evidence to charge Kerr was racially harassing him. Well,
he made a second statement and that's when he said
it left him hurt and upset, and that discrepancy is
what they said, was what Kerrz lawyers said that they
basically concocted this evidence to get that charge over the line.
Now the officer denies this, but he did admit on
(03:36):
the stand that he was determined to pursue Sam Kerkr,
Matilda's captain through the courts. So that was probably the
biggest thing that the officer that Sam Kerr had called
stupid and white, who claims he racially agrees in this matter,
he basically had delivered two different sets of accounts and
changed it so they could have enough evidence to pursue
(03:56):
this charge against her.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Hey been a couple of things that I've kind of read.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I'd just love to hear whether they're clarified or not,
because we're obviously Tim Kerr in the studio. First of all,
did she call him a see you next tuesday in court?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
The other day?
Speaker 5 (04:12):
Not in court? No, definitely, not in court.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I think I think that I think that that's it
that has that has been.
Speaker 6 (04:20):
So there's yeah, so that that that that that term
was used on a police recording, wasn't at the police officer,
but that was used against the cabby.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
The other thing that I that I also saw, which
I thought was very funny, was so she's she's vomited
in the taxi and apparently to prove to the police
officer in the police station that like, it wasn't about
cleaning up the vomit in the cab. She's opened her
bank account and flashed the police officer how much money
(04:50):
was just.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
To say, mate, it's not about the cash. I could
do this right now.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Yeah, yeah, she definitely did that.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
More serious question now, So the taxi driver in all
of this, I find what he did like horrific, locking
the doors and effectively making Sam and a fiance a
prisoner in a car.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Is he getting punished at all through all of this?
Speaker 5 (05:15):
No, so like, and the thing about this cab is
that what was made clear yesterday is that he said that,
and according to the police that he asked Sam stutit
in the cab, He's called the police and then he's
driven to the station. But Sam's version of events is
that he's just directly driven to the station, and at
no point was it ever communicate to them that he
(05:36):
had called police or that the police had told to
go there. Now, the thing to be clear is though
that Sam here is not on trial for vomiting a
cab the cab. He's not on trial for kidnapping or
deprivation of liberty Sam and even on trial for calling
the police officers stupid and white. The only thing she's
on trial for is intending to harm him by using
the words stupid and white. And so there's a really
(05:57):
narrow scope that the police can try and arrestaur on. You, Like,
what was she just exasperated us through a one hour
interview when she said there's comments at her wits end?
Or was she really trying to villify him and the
only way they can get a condition across the line,
if they can improve, she was trying to villify and
harass this police officer.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
So, Ben, this is just one of the couples. So
I think this is the sticking point for me. This
is what we've been talking about in the studio, in
the in the song. So for me, if we're talking
about like I assume that there's there's like a racial
thing going on here, which I think is as I
said to you before, I'm not sure if you're here,
but what he was saying, who's on this guy's team?
And I think that the fascinating thing is that there
(06:35):
probably are people on his team who are going like, oh, well,
you know, we're not if we're not allowed to use
you know, racial stereo stereotyping language, you know, with people
of color, why should they be able to do it
with white people? Which I look, I don't think it
needs to be said, that's the dumbest thing in the world.
But I do think what's really interesting about it is like,
if there's legislation which says you cannot stereotype or racially
(07:00):
brand somebody because of their skin color or where they
come from, the court is going to have to decide
in some sort of a way whether or not you
can be racist towards a white person, which.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I feel is like the crux of his argument.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
Yeah, it's it's interesting it and you know Samka actually
responds to this. Yesterday would play the second recording of
a police interview, one that hasn't been there's only a
bit recently been released where a second officer asks her, Hey,
do you know that if you call someone white you
can be racist? And Samka in this interview says, well,
I can understand you could probably interpreted anything can be
interpreted as racist if you twisted enough effectively and paraphrasing
(07:39):
her there, but you know it's well, another thing I
should point out as well is that, like Samko has
also explained to this cop, you know, you're a man.
You don't know what it's like to be a woman
in the back of a cab being driven around by
a bloke who's not telling you where you're going. Now,
the cop hasn't charged her for you know, a sexist
remarkment from calling him a man for not knowing what
(08:02):
it's like, you know, likeem is like she's trying to
explain in circumstance, you know, you're not understanding where I'm
coming from. Yes, obviously sees it very differently. Yes, yes,
this is exactly you put it correctly. It's all turning
on the interpretation whether she's trying to harm this police officer,
(08:24):
which could.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Make it even bigger because Tommy our button pushing here,
we're saying before we listen to the audio again, she says,
you're stupid and white. She doesn't say you're stupid and
white in the same run of words, which is just
like a way to brand him for being white. She's
trying to say, you don't get where I'm coming from.
I'm a colored woman, you're stupid and white. You don't
(08:48):
you can't empathize with me, which I think is what
it feels as if that's kind of what she's trying
to say.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Well, her next words, sorry to cut you off, but
like her next word is like, this is the world problem.
But I think she's talking to yes, like she would argue,
she would argue, I'm talking to a global issue around
like power structures. This is what legal have said out.
She might have poorly expressed this, but that, in her
legal team's view, is how she's trying to express this view.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Absolutely, Hey, Benny, before we do, let you go, Like,
what sort of punishment is she facing if she is
found guilty of this?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Like is this like is this prison time? Is this
a fine?
Speaker 6 (09:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
What is it?
Speaker 5 (09:28):
So punishment hasn't been directly discussed in the trial, and
like the head sentence of the maximum penalty for this
could see ole time. This is nowhere near I mean
in Benjamin Downey King's Council talking here like I'm not
a law degree, Like this is not approaching that threshold.
This is we're talking a fine and stuff on the wrist.
(09:49):
For she's not interested in the fine, she's not interested
in the time. She's interested in clearing her name.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
That's why she's here, that's why she's still.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
Doing and today we'll hear from her.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
That's awesome, Ben, But hopefully we can speak to you
again tomorrow just to hear exactly what Sam curse ex
and I'm sure they'll be passed everyone's bed time a
little bit later on. Ben Downey seven years European correspondent.
Ben's been great to have you on the show, Mate,
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