March 7, 2023 • 16 mins
Introducing a brand new show on SBS - The Swap
Topics included in this episode -
- Just introduces Ali Kadri, CEO of the Islamic College of Brisbane
- The Swap on SBS
- Ali shares why the show was created
- Holy envy
- Religious differences
Find us on Facebook at Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families
Email us your questions and comments at podcasts@happyfamilies.com.au
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the
time poor parent who just wants answers.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to the Happy Family's podcast. My name
is doctor Justin Coulson. It's great to have you listening.
I'm really excited for today's conversation because it's about a
brand new TV show starting tonight on SBS. It's called
The Swap and my guest today is Ali Kadri. Let
me tell you a bit about Ali. He's been the
CEO of the Islamic College of Brisbane for the last
(00:34):
three years and he's also the architect behind the TV
show The Swap, which is an Australian first social experiment
exploring what happens when you take twelve students and families
from very different cultures, religions and backgrounds and you will
you bring their worlds together.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
There's only one station that brings you everything. You're opening in.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Brisbane today in Australia, a unique experiment is.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
About to unfold there.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
You have a great day, a.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
School swap that brings together twelve students and families from
very different cultures and religions.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So strong over this program and I've seen the first
of three episodes, It basically covers one school term and
early accompanies these students on an eye opening, provocative, emotional
rollercoaster of a journey as they experience anxiety and excitement
and I think wonder as they engage with one another's
(01:34):
schools and families and communities. For everybody who's involved, the
swap is literally the first time that they've experienced been
close to someone who sees the world in a completely
different way. We're talking about a bunch of kids at
an Islamic college who in many cases have not actually
got any friends who are not Islamic. And we've got
kids who have no religious affiliation whatsoever, and kids who
(01:57):
have strong Christian ideas, and they're bringing it all together
in this TV show. It's just it's a fascinating show.
We're going to talk about in a second. Let me
tell you about Ali. He was born and raised in India.
Following the death of his brother during a period of
sectarian violence and anti Muslim riots, Ali's father encouraged.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Him to move from India to Australia so that he
could study.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
He arrived in Brisbane in two thousand and three completed
a Master of Business Administration and NBA at Charles Stair
University and a Master of Professional Accounting at JCU and
a graduate certificate in International Relations at Griffith. My goodness,
Ali has some qualifications coming out of his ears. He
lives in Brisbane and the first episode of The Swap
premieres this evening on SBS. Ali, Welcome to The Happy
(02:40):
Family's podcast. Long intro, but I think that everything we're
talking about today, we want to make sure that everyone
knows who you are and what you've done.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Now, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
That was a fantastic introductor for Justin. I'm really humbled
to be here today.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Can you.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I mean, I've kind of given a bit of a
description of the show, but I want to put myself
in your shoes for a secon. And in episode one
we kind of get this opportunity. You're the CEO of
an Islamic college which is really conservative and obviously strongly
religiously oriented, and you bring six kids who either have
no faith whatsoever or a Christian faith into the school
(03:17):
environment and they get introduced to everything that you guys do.
But then you send six of your kids into a
state school or a Catholic school, into these completely different
environments as well. Can you describe the pressure that you
felt as you came up with this idea and tried
to convince families that this would be a great idea.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I'm still a little bit anxious before it goes on
how people are going to receive it and feel about
all this. But to be honest, I mean, nothing worth
doing it is easy, and I always believe that right
things are always difficult at the start, but if you
do it with sincerity and good intentions, then the result
is always positive. So there was a lot of stress
(03:58):
and anxiety when I kind of came with the idea
and when we are actually filming. But you know, I
do know that this is the right thing to do,
not just for our community here in istam ecology of Brisbane,
but I think for a wider community and for the
Australians moving forward.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Let me ask you why it's the right thing to do.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Why is this I guess you'd call it integration or familiarization.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Why do you see it is so important?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So it partly is because of my experiences growing up
in India. I mean, people know India is quite a
diverse nation. I am from a minority community in India
versus Muslim community and growing up, you know, I kind
of had a lot of friends o her of different faith.
But then you know, over the last few decades, I
(04:46):
guess people in India have been separating from each other.
They've been developing in silos. So there were many sort
of Indias within India, if you like. And what that
did was that created so much mistrust that the polity
and geopolitics and ill intentioned people utilize that to cause
further divisions, divisions which led into arts. Right, I come
(05:08):
to Australia and for the first time in my life
as a minority. I'm still a minority in Australia, but
I felt more accepted than I felt growing up in India,
and kind of I always say this that I embraced
Australia as my country because of how people made me
feel here, which was much better than how I felt
(05:28):
in India. Now, when I meet Australian Muslims were born
and brought up here, especially post September eleven, there is
a bit of you know, alienation going on because they
feel like, you know, the wider community kind of looks
at them with mistrust. There is Islamophobia, so they kind
of bunker down into their silo, and you know, the
(05:49):
parents want to make sure that they shield their young
children from islam phobia, so they send them to Islamic school,
and then Islamic school is very bunkered.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Down as well.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
You don't have any non Muslim kids at like one
or two, and you know, out of sixteen hundred students,
we already have one or two. So I was quite
shocked that, you know, you have students who are born
and brought up in Australia and don't have non Muslim friends,
which is not a good thing for them because when
they go out in the wider world, let's face it,
(06:17):
majority of the people are not Muslims, not just in
Australia but across the world, and majority of the people
don't think like Muslims. They're different. So I think the
most important skill you got to learn is how do
you interact with them and feel confident in your identity
as Australian and as Muslim. And I think the best
way to do that was to do it in a
(06:38):
controlled educational setting where we expose them to different ideas
and see how they interact with different ideas. Sometimes polar
opposed ideas, and to my pleasant surprise, you know, the
kids handle it very well. And I think it's good
for our country to get to know each other. I mean,
you know, at the end of the day, no matter
when we came from or where we came from, we
(06:59):
are all Australialliams, and the efforts we are going to
make are going to add to the success or the
progress of our country collectively.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
So why not get to know each other? That was
the main reason.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Fifty percent of the kids are like not gay, but
like they have different like what do you call that sexualities?
Speaker 1 (07:20):
There are some really challenging moments in this college.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It's provocative. There's there's no other way to say it.
How badly could this have gone for you?
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Look, I mean ultimately I could have lost my job
very early on. I mean I've only started three years ago.
But luckily I have the support of the board of
the school. The community overall is quite supportive. But you know,
when things go wrong, when you do something different and
things go wrong, you know, usually individual is blamed for
(07:53):
no matter how good your intentions are, and you know
you have to be able to take those risks sometimes
to to sort of do the right thing, and it
could have been it could have been cost me my
job effectively.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
As I was watching episode one, which as I mentioned,
is airing on SBS this evening, I was thinking, very
much so, Kylie and I have a religious faith, and
we're open about expressing that, but we also often feel
like we want to not make any noise about that
and just let everybody live their lives the way that
(08:30):
they want to live their lives, and will live our
way as well. I've always felt there was a religious parent,
that there is pressure for me that people who do
not have a religious orientation don't experience. What was really
fascinating was watching parents with no religious affiliation at all,
People who quite happily say I'm an atheist, I'm agnostic,
(08:53):
I don't know where I am.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
People who have extremely.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Liberal views as they start to interact with people whose
views a different their values are, I guess under pressure
regardless of where you fit on that political spectrum or
the faith spectrum, or whatever value spectrum you want to choose.
And I thought, well, I saw things really differently watching it.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
It really was eye opening to me.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
People who have a strong Christian faith, as they have
a child who identifies and says.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I really like it a lot.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I'm feeling a little bit envy around what they do
in an Islamic school.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
There are some good things there, and the parents.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Are kind of going, oh, I don't know if I
like this, because we want our child to respond.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
To our values.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Parents who are atheistic, parents who are far left liberal
leaning parents having values challenged by kids who are saying,
you know what, I'm wearing the Muslim clothing. I'm following
a modest path as I'm having this experience, and it
actually feels good and I quite like how I look.
(09:51):
Everybody was confronted. Everybody was challenged. What was the most
die opening thing for you as you walk through this
twelve week, one term experience with these twelve kids.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You rightly pointed out, I mean people had the participants
had quite a different value system, and they wanted to
bring up their kids in the values they sort of
hold so dear. But they all had anxieties. I mean,
Muslim parents thought that, you know, their kids or themselves
will be judged or be looked at in a different
(10:21):
way for being Muslims. There were eighties parents who thought
that their values will be undermined or disrespected, or they
will not be accepted because of their values. So it
just shows that all of us, kind of, while wanting
to protect our values, always worry that other people may
think bad of us or wrong of our values.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
And I think that's not always the case.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I think, you know a lot of times we respect
each other or at least understand each other's values. But
the person who is on the receiving it or or
who is believing in that stuff generally feels that their
values are going to be undermind. So to Gilar classically example,
you know I look different, of course, I'm I'm of
Indian origin. I go out with my wife who is
(11:05):
from Morocco and she wears a hit job. And when
we go out, a lot of times, you know, people
especially in countrytown North Queensland, people would look at us
and look at her in a way where she felt
a little uncomfortable. And she's been recently arrived. She's recently
arrived into Australia from Morocco, which is the majority Muslim country,
so she kind of felt like, you know, why are
they're looking at me? Is it because they're judging me?
(11:28):
You know my danger? But most of the times it's
just out of curiosity. And it was a beautiful incident
where one person went up to her and she's like,
I love your scarf.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
It's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
And that's when she realized that, wow, people are looking
at me because I look different, and perhaps they were
admiring my scarf rather than thinking, you know, negative or
bad of me. And it wouldn't have occurred to her
on her own unless that lady came and spoke to her,
which needs guts as well, because you know, to go
up to a stranger and talk to them, not knowing
(11:59):
whether they're are speaking which or not, is a difficult
thing to do.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
But that little.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Communication changed her whole experience or perception of you know,
living in Australia for example, or people of Australian background.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
And she was quite very very fondly.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
She kind of says that, oh, look, you know, people
say Australia is a racist country, but they're not.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Australians are beautiful, you know, like the good people.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Because of her experience, Now that takes courage, that takes
effort on both hands, and that is necessary. It's important
for us to do so because people unfortunately, unfortunately the
people who have, you know, negative ways of dealing with
differences are much more louder than most of us who
(12:40):
have positive ways of dealing with differences. I mean I personally,
you know, went to the Mass in one of the schools.
It was my first time going to a Catholic Mass.
And you know, there's some things I admired, some things
I didn't understand, some things I found quite awkward and different,
but you know, the overall experience was amazing. I was
(13:00):
great to be there, you know, in that church, in
the mass and participating in it. It didn't make me
any less of a Muslim, but it most certainly gave
me a whole new level of understanding and respect for
Australian's what happens. And I wouldn't have done that. I
wouldn't have gotten that respect unless I got out of
my comfort zone when you do that church, and I
(13:23):
was strong enough in my identity that I will not
This does not compromise.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
People think they're very rude and just a bit scary.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I want to be seen as me and not my job,
not scary towers or something like that.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I love the stories that you've shared there, and it
reminds me of I don't remember the name of the
scholar who came up with this phrase, but there's a
religious scholar who talks about this thing called holy envy,
the idea of holy envy.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And you don't even have to be a religious habit.
It's literally looking for the good in what others do.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
So if you have a religious practice that's different to
somebody else, as you might say, well, I don't believe
what they believe, but I love the way they do this,
or I really.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Appreciate their reverence for such and such like.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
We can have this appreciation even if we don't necessarily
buy what they're believing or selling or whatever.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
That does not and not just that does not undermine
who we are. I mean, yes, as I mean, look,
at the end of the day, if you believe, if
you have a belief system, then you know fundamentally that
there is a creator who's created us all. So you
know whether whatever faith you follow, you are children of
(14:33):
the same Father. If that sort of if I was
to use a very Christian terminology to explain this, you
know your children of the same God, So you know,
I think that understanding is fundamentally important that all creation,
all human beings are created by the same creator, we
practice in a different way, and I think that's where
(14:53):
we need to start with our differences, rather than starting
by Okay, this is different and I don't like what
you do, and I'm going to do everything my power
to criticize or change you. And that is I think
what the problem or misunderstanding some people have.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
While the religious differences are front and center in the
TV show The Swap, this is really a series about
understanding other people, about changing mindsets, about becoming familiar with
the unfamiliar, and about stretching our boundaries. The show is
on this evening on SBS. Great show. I can't wait
to watch the next two episodes. Ali Kadrid, the CEO
(15:31):
at ICB, the Islamic College of Brisbane. Congratulations on the show.
I can't wait to see how all of these episodes
play out. And thanks for joining me to chat about
the show today on the podcast Look.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Thank you very much for having me today.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It was an honor and I hope all the viewers
are going to enjoy the show and love to hear
more and continue this experiment as we move forward in
our future.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah. Absolutely great stuff. I know that they'll enjoy it.
In fact, I really recommend it.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I'm looking forward to, like I said, watching the next
couple of episodes as well. The Happy Family Podcast is
produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is
our executive producer. For more information about the swap, check
our show notes or just google the swap sps. You'll
find everything you need so that you can watch the
show this evening. If you're listening to the podcast on Wednesday,
the eighth of March, which is where this episode is dropping,
(16:17):
and for more information about making your family happy at
please visit this at happy families dot com dot au
It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the
time poor parent who just wants answers.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to the Happy Family's podcast. My name
is doctor Justin Coulson. It's great to have you listening.
I'm really excited for today's conversation because it's about a
brand new TV show starting tonight on SBS. It's called
The Swap and my guest today is Ali Kadri. Let
me tell you a bit about Ali. He's been the
CEO of the Islamic College of Brisbane for the last
(00:34):
three years and he's also the architect behind the TV
show The Swap, which is an Australian first social experiment
exploring what happens when you take twelve students and families
from very different cultures, religions and backgrounds and you will
you bring their worlds together.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
There's only one station that brings you everything. You're opening in.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Brisbane today in Australia, a unique experiment is.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
About to unfold there.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
You have a great day, a.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
School swap that brings together twelve students and families from
very different cultures and religions.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So strong over this program and I've seen the first
of three episodes, It basically covers one school term and
early accompanies these students on an eye opening, provocative, emotional
rollercoaster of a journey as they experience anxiety and excitement
and I think wonder as they engage with one another's
(01:34):
schools and families and communities. For everybody who's involved, the
swap is literally the first time that they've experienced been
close to someone who sees the world in a completely
different way. We're talking about a bunch of kids at
an Islamic college who in many cases have not actually
got any friends who are not Islamic. And we've got
kids who have no religious affiliation whatsoever, and kids who
(01:57):
have strong Christian ideas, and they're bringing it all together
in this TV show. It's just it's a fascinating show.
We're going to talk about in a second. Let me
tell you about Ali. He was born and raised in India.
Following the death of his brother during a period of
sectarian violence and anti Muslim riots, Ali's father encouraged.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Him to move from India to Australia so that he
could study.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
He arrived in Brisbane in two thousand and three completed
a Master of Business Administration and NBA at Charles Stair
University and a Master of Professional Accounting at JCU and
a graduate certificate in International Relations at Griffith. My goodness,
Ali has some qualifications coming out of his ears. He
lives in Brisbane and the first episode of The Swap
premieres this evening on SBS. Ali, Welcome to The Happy
(02:40):
Family's podcast. Long intro, but I think that everything we're
talking about today, we want to make sure that everyone
knows who you are and what you've done.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Now, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
That was a fantastic introductor for Justin. I'm really humbled
to be here today.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Can you.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I mean, I've kind of given a bit of a
description of the show, but I want to put myself
in your shoes for a secon. And in episode one
we kind of get this opportunity. You're the CEO of
an Islamic college which is really conservative and obviously strongly
religiously oriented, and you bring six kids who either have
no faith whatsoever or a Christian faith into the school
(03:17):
environment and they get introduced to everything that you guys do.
But then you send six of your kids into a
state school or a Catholic school, into these completely different
environments as well. Can you describe the pressure that you
felt as you came up with this idea and tried
to convince families that this would be a great idea.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I'm still a little bit anxious before it goes on
how people are going to receive it and feel about
all this. But to be honest, I mean, nothing worth
doing it is easy, and I always believe that right
things are always difficult at the start, but if you
do it with sincerity and good intentions, then the result
is always positive. So there was a lot of stress
(03:58):
and anxiety when I kind of came with the idea
and when we are actually filming. But you know, I
do know that this is the right thing to do,
not just for our community here in istam ecology of Brisbane,
but I think for a wider community and for the
Australians moving forward.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Let me ask you why it's the right thing to do.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Why is this I guess you'd call it integration or familiarization.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Why do you see it is so important?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So it partly is because of my experiences growing up
in India. I mean, people know India is quite a
diverse nation. I am from a minority community in India
versus Muslim community and growing up, you know, I kind
of had a lot of friends o her of different faith.
But then you know, over the last few decades, I
(04:46):
guess people in India have been separating from each other.
They've been developing in silos. So there were many sort
of Indias within India, if you like. And what that
did was that created so much mistrust that the polity
and geopolitics and ill intentioned people utilize that to cause
further divisions, divisions which led into arts. Right, I come
(05:08):
to Australia and for the first time in my life
as a minority. I'm still a minority in Australia, but
I felt more accepted than I felt growing up in India,
and kind of I always say this that I embraced
Australia as my country because of how people made me
feel here, which was much better than how I felt
(05:28):
in India. Now, when I meet Australian Muslims were born
and brought up here, especially post September eleven, there is
a bit of you know, alienation going on because they
feel like, you know, the wider community kind of looks
at them with mistrust. There is Islamophobia, so they kind
of bunker down into their silo, and you know, the
(05:49):
parents want to make sure that they shield their young
children from islam phobia, so they send them to Islamic school,
and then Islamic school is very bunkered.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Down as well.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
You don't have any non Muslim kids at like one
or two, and you know, out of sixteen hundred students,
we already have one or two. So I was quite
shocked that, you know, you have students who are born
and brought up in Australia and don't have non Muslim friends,
which is not a good thing for them because when
they go out in the wider world, let's face it,
(06:17):
majority of the people are not Muslims, not just in
Australia but across the world, and majority of the people
don't think like Muslims. They're different. So I think the
most important skill you got to learn is how do
you interact with them and feel confident in your identity
as Australian and as Muslim. And I think the best
way to do that was to do it in a
(06:38):
controlled educational setting where we expose them to different ideas
and see how they interact with different ideas. Sometimes polar
opposed ideas, and to my pleasant surprise, you know, the
kids handle it very well. And I think it's good
for our country to get to know each other. I mean,
you know, at the end of the day, no matter
when we came from or where we came from, we
(06:59):
are all Australialliams, and the efforts we are going to
make are going to add to the success or the
progress of our country collectively.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
So why not get to know each other? That was
the main reason.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Fifty percent of the kids are like not gay, but
like they have different like what do you call that sexualities?
Speaker 1 (07:20):
There are some really challenging moments in this college.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It's provocative. There's there's no other way to say it.
How badly could this have gone for you?
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Look, I mean ultimately I could have lost my job
very early on. I mean I've only started three years ago.
But luckily I have the support of the board of
the school. The community overall is quite supportive. But you know,
when things go wrong, when you do something different and
things go wrong, you know, usually individual is blamed for
(07:53):
no matter how good your intentions are, and you know
you have to be able to take those risks sometimes
to to sort of do the right thing, and it
could have been it could have been cost me my
job effectively.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
As I was watching episode one, which as I mentioned,
is airing on SBS this evening, I was thinking, very
much so, Kylie and I have a religious faith, and
we're open about expressing that, but we also often feel
like we want to not make any noise about that
and just let everybody live their lives the way that
(08:30):
they want to live their lives, and will live our
way as well. I've always felt there was a religious parent,
that there is pressure for me that people who do
not have a religious orientation don't experience. What was really
fascinating was watching parents with no religious affiliation at all,
People who quite happily say I'm an atheist, I'm agnostic,
(08:53):
I don't know where I am.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
People who have extremely.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Liberal views as they start to interact with people whose
views a different their values are, I guess under pressure
regardless of where you fit on that political spectrum or
the faith spectrum, or whatever value spectrum you want to choose.
And I thought, well, I saw things really differently watching it.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
It really was eye opening to me.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
People who have a strong Christian faith, as they have
a child who identifies and says.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I really like it a lot.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I'm feeling a little bit envy around what they do
in an Islamic school.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
There are some good things there, and the parents.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Are kind of going, oh, I don't know if I
like this, because we want our child to respond.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
To our values.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Parents who are atheistic, parents who are far left liberal
leaning parents having values challenged by kids who are saying,
you know what, I'm wearing the Muslim clothing. I'm following
a modest path as I'm having this experience, and it
actually feels good and I quite like how I look.
(09:51):
Everybody was confronted. Everybody was challenged. What was the most
die opening thing for you as you walk through this
twelve week, one term experience with these twelve kids.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You rightly pointed out, I mean people had the participants
had quite a different value system, and they wanted to
bring up their kids in the values they sort of
hold so dear. But they all had anxieties. I mean,
Muslim parents thought that, you know, their kids or themselves
will be judged or be looked at in a different
(10:21):
way for being Muslims. There were eighties parents who thought
that their values will be undermined or disrespected, or they
will not be accepted because of their values. So it
just shows that all of us, kind of, while wanting
to protect our values, always worry that other people may
think bad of us or wrong of our values.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
And I think that's not always the case.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I think, you know a lot of times we respect
each other or at least understand each other's values. But
the person who is on the receiving it or or
who is believing in that stuff generally feels that their
values are going to be undermind. So to Gilar classically example,
you know I look different, of course, I'm I'm of
Indian origin. I go out with my wife who is
(11:05):
from Morocco and she wears a hit job. And when
we go out, a lot of times, you know, people
especially in countrytown North Queensland, people would look at us
and look at her in a way where she felt
a little uncomfortable. And she's been recently arrived. She's recently
arrived into Australia from Morocco, which is the majority Muslim country,
so she kind of felt like, you know, why are
they're looking at me? Is it because they're judging me?
(11:28):
You know my danger? But most of the times it's
just out of curiosity. And it was a beautiful incident
where one person went up to her and she's like,
I love your scarf.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
It's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
And that's when she realized that, wow, people are looking
at me because I look different, and perhaps they were
admiring my scarf rather than thinking, you know, negative or
bad of me. And it wouldn't have occurred to her
on her own unless that lady came and spoke to her,
which needs guts as well, because you know, to go
up to a stranger and talk to them, not knowing
(11:59):
whether they're are speaking which or not, is a difficult
thing to do.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
But that little.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Communication changed her whole experience or perception of you know,
living in Australia for example, or people of Australian background.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
And she was quite very very fondly.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
She kind of says that, oh, look, you know, people
say Australia is a racist country, but they're not.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Australians are beautiful, you know, like the good people.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Because of her experience, Now that takes courage, that takes
effort on both hands, and that is necessary. It's important
for us to do so because people unfortunately, unfortunately the
people who have, you know, negative ways of dealing with
differences are much more louder than most of us who
(12:40):
have positive ways of dealing with differences. I mean I personally,
you know, went to the Mass in one of the schools.
It was my first time going to a Catholic Mass.
And you know, there's some things I admired, some things
I didn't understand, some things I found quite awkward and different,
but you know, the overall experience was amazing. I was
(13:00):
great to be there, you know, in that church, in
the mass and participating in it. It didn't make me
any less of a Muslim, but it most certainly gave
me a whole new level of understanding and respect for
Australian's what happens. And I wouldn't have done that. I
wouldn't have gotten that respect unless I got out of
my comfort zone when you do that church, and I
(13:23):
was strong enough in my identity that I will not
This does not compromise.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
People think they're very rude and just a bit scary.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I want to be seen as me and not my job,
not scary towers or something like that.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I love the stories that you've shared there, and it
reminds me of I don't remember the name of the
scholar who came up with this phrase, but there's a
religious scholar who talks about this thing called holy envy,
the idea of holy envy.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And you don't even have to be a religious habit.
It's literally looking for the good in what others do.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
So if you have a religious practice that's different to
somebody else, as you might say, well, I don't believe
what they believe, but I love the way they do this,
or I really.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Appreciate their reverence for such and such like.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
We can have this appreciation even if we don't necessarily
buy what they're believing or selling or whatever.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
That does not and not just that does not undermine
who we are. I mean, yes, as I mean, look,
at the end of the day, if you believe, if
you have a belief system, then you know fundamentally that
there is a creator who's created us all. So you
know whether whatever faith you follow, you are children of
(14:33):
the same Father. If that sort of if I was
to use a very Christian terminology to explain this, you
know your children of the same God, So you know,
I think that understanding is fundamentally important that all creation,
all human beings are created by the same creator, we
practice in a different way, and I think that's where
(14:53):
we need to start with our differences, rather than starting
by Okay, this is different and I don't like what
you do, and I'm going to do everything my power
to criticize or change you. And that is I think
what the problem or misunderstanding some people have.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
While the religious differences are front and center in the
TV show The Swap, this is really a series about
understanding other people, about changing mindsets, about becoming familiar with
the unfamiliar, and about stretching our boundaries. The show is
on this evening on SBS. Great show. I can't wait
to watch the next two episodes. Ali Kadrid, the CEO
(15:31):
at ICB, the Islamic College of Brisbane. Congratulations on the show.
I can't wait to see how all of these episodes
play out. And thanks for joining me to chat about
the show today on the podcast Look.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Thank you very much for having me today.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It was an honor and I hope all the viewers
are going to enjoy the show and love to hear
more and continue this experiment as we move forward in
our future.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah. Absolutely great stuff. I know that they'll enjoy it.
In fact, I really recommend it.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I'm looking forward to, like I said, watching the next
couple of episodes as well. The Happy Family Podcast is
produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is
our executive producer. For more information about the swap, check
our show notes or just google the swap sps. You'll
find everything you need so that you can watch the
show this evening. If you're listening to the podcast on Wednesday,
the eighth of March, which is where this episode is dropping,
(16:17):
and for more information about making your family happy at
please visit this at happy families dot com dot au
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