January 30, 2023 • 16 mins
Should we be expecting our kids to complete their homework?
Topics included in this episode -
- Justin shares his strong opinions on homework
- What is the theory behind why we gives kids homework?
- What does the science say?
- Tutoring vs homework
- Kylie shares her thoughts on homework
Find us on Facebook at Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families
Email us your questions and comments at podcasts@happyfamilies.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
time poor parent who just wants answers.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now, so, here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
If you don't understand what happened in class, to come
home and have to try to work it out without
the teacher, that can be overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
And now here's the stars of our show, my mom
and dad.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hello, it's doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy Families
dot com dot au.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Here with Kylie, my.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Wife and mum to our six children and Kylie a
big conversation today.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
What today? Our topic is homework.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Homework that I despise, homework that I think children just
shouldn't be doing homework that I have very strong opinions about,
asking me what I really think?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
You do have very strong opinions about this, And we
did for a.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Little bit from time to time. We had our moments
on this, haven't we.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Yeah, So, can you just tell me what is the
theory behind giving our kids homework? I mean literally, from
the time our kids prep they're coming home with stuff
that they have to achieve at home.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, yeah, So what is that?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
What's the ideal behind it?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Well, this is really interesting because homework has just always
been a thing. Well, one day it became a thing
at least, and that's kind of what we've always done since.
And nobody really researched whether the homework was helpful or
not for decades and decades after it started. But the
theory is, there's work that you've got to get done,
and we want to make sure that we're consolidating learning.
(01:30):
So we're going to send it home so the kids
can do an extra shift, do some overtime when you
get home. Kids, we're not going to pay you for it,
but let's get you to do some overtime. And the
idea is, let's consolidate the learning. Let's make sure that
you're not falling behind in class. It's that kind of thing,
you know.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I grew up watching a little house on the prairie
and they used to go to school every day. They
didn't go home with homework.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
No, in the olden days they didn't.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
And then someone obviously had the idea that sometimes if
you don't finish your work at school, you need to
take it home and finish it.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And someone else had an.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Idea that we need to make sure that you don't
forget the stuff that we taught you. Today, so when
you go home, you need to practice it. Repetition is
the mother of all learning, which which is true. It's
just that there's no really great evidence that we should
be taking at home and repeating it at home when
we can repeat it at school the next day.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Okay, so you know how I feel about the researchy stuff.
But you know, just give me a little bit of insight.
What does the research actually tell us about homework and
our kids well being?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
How do you feel about the research stuff?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Ah, just tell me the real life stuff.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Science is the best way for us to know whether
stuff is working or not. There's so many things that
as a result of science, we know that we otherwise
wouldn't all these old wives tales that have been disproven
because good science says, you know, if you change this,
you actually discover whether or not it's really having an
impact on stuff. So I don't think we can go
poo pooing science.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
I'm not poopeeing science. I just have to listen to
it every day. Okay, so you're tired of my Yeah,
I am tired of your tirades. But there is some
important stuff and I do learn lots.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
So yeah, so when we look at the science around homework,
there is well, I don't know how to say it politely,
there is not really any strong evidence for really, there's
no strong evidence from decades of research that homework on
average is good for our kids. In fact, most of
the research shows that it has either a neutral or
(03:23):
a negative effect. Now I say not really because it's
really hard to research this and to do it well.
And one of the main reasons is because there's all
different kinds of homework, and so for me, it's as
much about whether homework is given or not as what
kind of homework is given.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
You see, some activities.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Are going to be really really good for our children's
learning and for reinforcement and for consolidating, and some activities
are just a waste of time. So on average, the
scientific research shows and has done now for about thirty years,
maybe thirty five years, that homework. Again, I'm saying on average. Oh,
and I've got to say another really important thing here,
(04:03):
homework on average for children up to around the age
of twelve thirteen fourteen. So essentially what I say is
primary school has zero benefit, literally zero benefit for the
average kid getting the average amount of homework and doing
the average sort of stuff for homework. It's a waste
of time. There's no evidence to support it. Once the
(04:24):
kids are in high school, there is some evidence that
up to an hour in the early years and then
up to two hours in their later high school years
does have an It gives them advantage academically, so it's
worth doing it once they're in high school. But for
primary school kids just stop.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Okay, So can you step me through what it is
that you actually are really disgruntled about when it comes
to homework. We're talking general terms here, Yeah, what the
average school is working with in homework parameters? What is
it that really, you know, kind of gets under your skin.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Okay, So, first of all, the average school has a
directive that's being given by the education department in their state,
and I think every state in Australia and every territory
in Australia has this that children have to have homework.
A couple of years ago, Melbourne ran Victoria ran a
parliamentary inquiry into homework and they didn't find any evidence
to support the use of homework, at least in primary school.
(05:16):
They're still doing it, by the way, they're still giving
homework out. But the Parliamentary inquiry couldn't even justify the
use of homework with the Education Department say no, no,
we've got to keep on making sure that kids are
doing homework. There's a handful of rebel principles around Australia
that have said we're actually going to follow the evidence
and the kids don't have to do it and guess
what their kids are doing.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Fine, students doing all right.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But if I was to list my grievances with homework,
what I'll do, Because I'm going to talk for way
too long and get too carried away, I'm going to
share the first couple, then we'll take a quick break
and I'll share the rest of them and talk about
what we should do as a result.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
So here we go.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Number one, there's just no evidence to support it, especially
in those primary school years, full stop, end of story.
If we're going to be science driven, we need to
actually look at what the science says, and the science
says it's pointless for kids who are in primary school period.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So what about their.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Parent who's got a child who's really struggling with their mass,
for instance, and they decide to hire a tutor to
come and Hauttering.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
There's a different process than homework. Okay, So if I'm
going to put my children into a tutoring class, that
means that they're going to be doing deliberate practice with
a qualified trainer or teacher who is going to guide
them and improve them. That's kind of like saying, i
want my children to learn the piano, but I'm never
going to.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Ask them to do any practice.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Okay, we need them to have a piano teacher so
that teacher can help them to get better. So I've
got a child who is falling behind, I decided to
put them in tutoring. That's a deliberate form of practice
and teaching with a qualified instructor that's going to help them.
That's totally different to here's some homework, go home, fill
in the homework matrix, you know, fill in the three
(06:45):
of the boxes in our grid. Make sure you finish
this worksheet. Totally different kind of homework. Let's talk about
the other reasons that I'm not a fan of homework.
In just a second.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we're
talking about a really hot button topic, homework.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
And I'm not sounding happy.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
You're not happy. So we've already discussed that there is
no research to support children under the age of twelve, thirteen,
even up to fourteen, actually getting any significant benefits out
of doing homework.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Any academic benefit at all. In fact, it's neutral, if
not negative, on average. Now I've got a handful of
other reasons that I'm anti homework. I'm going to run
through them pretty quickly.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Number one, it adds to my workload as a parent, definitely,
I've got stuff going on.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
And I know that when you know, I sit around
with mums having a coffee, they feel really really stretched
by this. Often because I.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Talked to some mums and dads who will do a
couple of hours of homework with their children after school
and after work and the kids are like eight years old.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
And you know else, The reason it takes them two
hours is because the parents don't know how to do the.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
I think that's why you really don't like homework, how
to do it.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Every time my kids come home with a c I'm like,
oh gosh, I don't know how I ever got a PhD.
It's really stressful for a lot of kids, like No,
I'm fine with children being uncomfortable, and I'm absolutely for
children doing things that are hard and pushing themselves.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
If you don't understand what happened in class to come
home and have to try to work it out without
the teacher, that can be overwhelming for the majority of children.
And it's not what education is meant to be about.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Well, especially when mum and dad try to teach you
the archaic way speak.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
It was different from the eighties, back in the nineties,
whatever it was when we were kids. I mean, I
was a product of early nineteen eighties primary schooling. Yeah,
and they do everything differently today than how they did
it when I was a kid. So it's not fair
for the children. It's also really hard on the parents.
But the other thing is, and we've watched this with
some of our kids, once they have got it figured
out in class, coming home and it's just boring, Like
(09:01):
they sit there and they're so bored, and it really
extinguishes that flame of curiosity when you're just doing boring stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Next thing, it adds to teachers loads.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
I mean I work in around schools all the time
now and I am astounded at how hard teachers work
compared to what they were doing back in the eighties.
Not that I want to belittle what teachers did back then,
but as a comparison, the expectation on teachers today is
extraordinary compared to back then. And the last thing that
they need to be worried about is whether or not
homework got done or whether the dog ate it.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
And I know that from experience. When we've kind of,
you know, shared our views on homework and got a
pardon for each of our children, you can see the
relief in their faces.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
One less child they've got to worry about. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
So, I think the last couple of reasons that I'm
anti homework creates conflict at home, you know, because a
child doesn't want to do it because they are feeling unmotivated,
or they are bored, or they're struggling, and then the
parents are like, you've got to do your homework, and
next thing, you know that there's this big conflict in
the kitchen over whether or not the home work's going
to get done. One of my biggest issues, though, is
(10:03):
that homework leaves less time for the important stuff.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Yeah. I think that that's where I really struggle with
homework policy is just when my kids come home, I
try so hard to be available to them, and yet
I'm going to spend half my afternoon staring at paperwork.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Well not at our house, thank you very much, missus
Happy families. But let me just add something on this though.
If parents are going to let their kids just sit
in front of video games and consume screens and do nothing,
then I probably would rather that they were doing homework.
I mean, that's what I would say about that, because
I want children to be either having some good quality
(10:43):
downtime or using their brains, you know, being efficient, learning, growing, developing,
doing something like that. That's what childhood is kind of for.
But I don't think either of them are really good alternatives.
I'd rather than be doing their art or their music,
or their drama, or their sport or stands in the backyard, yeah,
going for aus, we'men, jumping on the trampoline, actually connecting
with their family, riding the bike down the street to
(11:04):
catch up with a friend. Those are the kinds of
things that I want to see kids doing in the afternoon.
Going to the grocery store with mum to buy the
groceries for tonight.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
That's what I think is far more valuable.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
That's the important stuff that they could be doing, and
sometimes homework gets in the way of that.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
And lastly, it's just.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
So generally uninspiring, like goly who wants to do it?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So that's why I'm against it.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
That's a really great list, and it's given me some
food for thought. And I generally agree with everything that
you're saying. In my experience, most of the homework that's
coming home with our children takes them about ten or
fifteen minutes. And I just I don't see the point
of rocking the boat if it's really not adding anngs
to the overall running of my house.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Well, I guess I've kind of softened my attitude even
though I've gone on this great big rant today, because
of two things. First of all, most of the time,
our kids have been happy to do it, even though
I'm telling them not to. They they're like that it's
just easier if I do it, if they actually sit
down and world.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
And they do. They feel ostracized, whether it be by
their peers or their teachers at times when even though
they have been given that pardon to not do it.
And so yeah, I just I feel like it's really
important that, you know, we kind of run this through
our own filters and work out what's going to work
best for us and our children.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah, In terms of rocking the boat, you know, I
think that if there's no evidence for something and it's
causing distress, challenge and difficulty in the family, it's worth
rocking the boat.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
It's worth So if it was causing distress, then I
would one hundred percent rock the boat. But in most
cases our children have actually not been too worried whether they.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Do it or not.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Now I need to I need to highlight a couple
of things.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
First of all, the confession, I've definitely softened my stance.
The reason is not only because some kids just like
doing homework, but also we're talking about averages, right, So
on average it doesn't help. On average, it's actually neutral
or even harmful. But not every child is average, which
means that in some cases homework might actually be helpful.
And I do say this tentatively because I think any
(13:05):
differences are probably going to be very, very small, and
they might come at substantial costs. But you know, sometimes
homework can help. There are a couple of kinds of
homework that I really do encourage.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yes, I would love you to share that, because they
one hundred percent of things that we support in our
home and have made a significant difference in our children's education.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Number One. Reading. You cannot read to your kids enough.
You cannot get them to read to you enough. Reading, reading, reading.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Of all of the things that we've talked about today,
homework has no evidence to support it in primary school.
But reading. I don't see reading as homework. I see
reading as just what you do because humans read, We
know how to read, and reading is good for our learning,
and we love to read.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
We don't do at homework.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
We don't fill in the reading wheel and say our
read for twenty minutes.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
We just read.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
And the research shows that the more our kids read,
the better they're likely to do academically. That's the typical outcome.
Reading is so strongly associated with great academic outcomes, with curiosity,
with learning, with openness and new experiences, with conscientiousness. This
is the number one thing that I would encourage parents
to do.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
And we love reading with our kids. It's one of
the highlights of our days to just kind of cuddle
up at the end of the night and read a book.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Second thing projects. If the kids are interested in something,
then turn on the computer and let them learn, let
them do projects, let them create, let them connect, let
them develop their understanding of stuff. There's loads, again, loads
of research that shows that when children are self directed
and autonomous in their learning, and they're learning about stuff
that they actually care about, they're going to do better.
(14:38):
And the third thing, I just reckon, do stuff together.
And when you're doing stuff, count or spell or read,
give the children an opportunity to run down the supermarket
aisle and do something. You know, do jobs and chores
for you, cleaning up around the house, be involved in
family life. I don't see that as homework though. I
see that as just living a whole and fulfilling childhood.
(14:58):
So that's my homework speak.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
So take home message for today is there is no
evidence that.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Homework helps in primary school.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
In primary school, yes, but one thing that does definitely
make a huge difference to your children all round is reading, YEP,
reading and self directed learning. And if you can tap
into those areas, your child is just going to thrive.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah, and hopefully if you decide that you want to
talk to your your children's teachers, about it. You won't
be rocking the boat too much. I think it's a
worthwhile conversation because it's not great for our kids. If
your kids are happy doing their homework, just leave them be.
We really hope that this is answered a few questions.
We will link to the homework letter in the show notes.
You can find the homework letter just by typing in
(15:45):
Justin Colson homework letter on Google, but we'll linked to
it in the show notes as well, and we hope
that it's given you more question, no more answers than questions.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I hope there's no more question.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Maybe I need to do my homework on how to
write an outro. The Heavy Families podcast is produced by
Justin Rowland from Bridge Media.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Craig Bruce is our executive producer.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Tomorrow on the podcast, really excited to have a conversation
with the one and only Gabby Stroud.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Gabby is an
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Author of a couple of fabulous books, and we're going
to talk about some old school stuff, especially having a
great relationship with your teacher as the school year fires up.
It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
time poor parent who just wants answers.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now, so, here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
If you don't understand what happened in class, to come
home and have to try to work it out without
the teacher, that can be overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
And now here's the stars of our show, my mom
and dad.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hello, it's doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy Families
dot com dot au.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Here with Kylie, my.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Wife and mum to our six children and Kylie a
big conversation today.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
What today? Our topic is homework.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Homework that I despise, homework that I think children just
shouldn't be doing homework that I have very strong opinions about,
asking me what I really think?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
You do have very strong opinions about this, And we
did for a.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Little bit from time to time. We had our moments
on this, haven't we.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Yeah, So, can you just tell me what is the
theory behind giving our kids homework? I mean literally, from
the time our kids prep they're coming home with stuff
that they have to achieve at home.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, yeah, So what is that?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
What's the ideal behind it?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Well, this is really interesting because homework has just always
been a thing. Well, one day it became a thing
at least, and that's kind of what we've always done since.
And nobody really researched whether the homework was helpful or
not for decades and decades after it started. But the
theory is, there's work that you've got to get done,
and we want to make sure that we're consolidating learning.
(01:30):
So we're going to send it home so the kids
can do an extra shift, do some overtime when you
get home. Kids, we're not going to pay you for it,
but let's get you to do some overtime. And the
idea is, let's consolidate the learning. Let's make sure that
you're not falling behind in class. It's that kind of thing,
you know.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I grew up watching a little house on the prairie
and they used to go to school every day. They
didn't go home with homework.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
No, in the olden days they didn't.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
And then someone obviously had the idea that sometimes if
you don't finish your work at school, you need to
take it home and finish it.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And someone else had an.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Idea that we need to make sure that you don't
forget the stuff that we taught you. Today, so when
you go home, you need to practice it. Repetition is
the mother of all learning, which which is true. It's
just that there's no really great evidence that we should
be taking at home and repeating it at home when
we can repeat it at school the next day.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Okay, so you know how I feel about the researchy stuff.
But you know, just give me a little bit of insight.
What does the research actually tell us about homework and
our kids well being?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
How do you feel about the research stuff?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Ah, just tell me the real life stuff.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Science is the best way for us to know whether
stuff is working or not. There's so many things that
as a result of science, we know that we otherwise
wouldn't all these old wives tales that have been disproven
because good science says, you know, if you change this,
you actually discover whether or not it's really having an
impact on stuff. So I don't think we can go
poo pooing science.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
I'm not poopeeing science. I just have to listen to
it every day. Okay, so you're tired of my Yeah,
I am tired of your tirades. But there is some
important stuff and I do learn lots.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
So yeah, so when we look at the science around homework,
there is well, I don't know how to say it politely,
there is not really any strong evidence for really, there's
no strong evidence from decades of research that homework on
average is good for our kids. In fact, most of
the research shows that it has either a neutral or
(03:23):
a negative effect. Now I say not really because it's
really hard to research this and to do it well.
And one of the main reasons is because there's all
different kinds of homework, and so for me, it's as
much about whether homework is given or not as what
kind of homework is given.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
You see, some activities.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Are going to be really really good for our children's
learning and for reinforcement and for consolidating, and some activities
are just a waste of time. So on average, the
scientific research shows and has done now for about thirty years,
maybe thirty five years, that homework. Again, I'm saying on average. Oh,
and I've got to say another really important thing here,
(04:03):
homework on average for children up to around the age
of twelve thirteen fourteen. So essentially what I say is
primary school has zero benefit, literally zero benefit for the
average kid getting the average amount of homework and doing
the average sort of stuff for homework. It's a waste
of time. There's no evidence to support it. Once the
(04:24):
kids are in high school, there is some evidence that
up to an hour in the early years and then
up to two hours in their later high school years
does have an It gives them advantage academically, so it's
worth doing it once they're in high school. But for
primary school kids just stop.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Okay, So can you step me through what it is
that you actually are really disgruntled about when it comes
to homework. We're talking general terms here, Yeah, what the
average school is working with in homework parameters? What is
it that really, you know, kind of gets under your skin.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Okay, So, first of all, the average school has a
directive that's being given by the education department in their state,
and I think every state in Australia and every territory
in Australia has this that children have to have homework.
A couple of years ago, Melbourne ran Victoria ran a
parliamentary inquiry into homework and they didn't find any evidence
to support the use of homework, at least in primary school.
(05:16):
They're still doing it, by the way, they're still giving
homework out. But the Parliamentary inquiry couldn't even justify the
use of homework with the Education Department say no, no,
we've got to keep on making sure that kids are
doing homework. There's a handful of rebel principles around Australia
that have said we're actually going to follow the evidence
and the kids don't have to do it and guess
what their kids are doing.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Fine, students doing all right.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But if I was to list my grievances with homework,
what I'll do, Because I'm going to talk for way
too long and get too carried away, I'm going to
share the first couple, then we'll take a quick break
and I'll share the rest of them and talk about
what we should do as a result.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
So here we go.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Number one, there's just no evidence to support it, especially
in those primary school years, full stop, end of story.
If we're going to be science driven, we need to
actually look at what the science says, and the science
says it's pointless for kids who are in primary school period.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So what about their.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Parent who's got a child who's really struggling with their mass,
for instance, and they decide to hire a tutor to
come and Hauttering.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
There's a different process than homework. Okay, So if I'm
going to put my children into a tutoring class, that
means that they're going to be doing deliberate practice with
a qualified trainer or teacher who is going to guide
them and improve them. That's kind of like saying, i
want my children to learn the piano, but I'm never
going to.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Ask them to do any practice.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Okay, we need them to have a piano teacher so
that teacher can help them to get better. So I've
got a child who is falling behind, I decided to
put them in tutoring. That's a deliberate form of practice
and teaching with a qualified instructor that's going to help them.
That's totally different to here's some homework, go home, fill
in the homework matrix, you know, fill in the three
(06:45):
of the boxes in our grid. Make sure you finish
this worksheet. Totally different kind of homework. Let's talk about
the other reasons that I'm not a fan of homework.
In just a second.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we're
talking about a really hot button topic, homework.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
And I'm not sounding happy.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
You're not happy. So we've already discussed that there is
no research to support children under the age of twelve, thirteen,
even up to fourteen, actually getting any significant benefits out
of doing homework.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Any academic benefit at all. In fact, it's neutral, if
not negative, on average. Now I've got a handful of
other reasons that I'm anti homework. I'm going to run
through them pretty quickly.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Number one, it adds to my workload as a parent, definitely,
I've got stuff going on.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
And I know that when you know, I sit around
with mums having a coffee, they feel really really stretched
by this. Often because I.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Talked to some mums and dads who will do a
couple of hours of homework with their children after school
and after work and the kids are like eight years old.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
And you know else, The reason it takes them two
hours is because the parents don't know how to do the.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
I think that's why you really don't like homework, how
to do it.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Every time my kids come home with a c I'm like,
oh gosh, I don't know how I ever got a PhD.
It's really stressful for a lot of kids, like No,
I'm fine with children being uncomfortable, and I'm absolutely for
children doing things that are hard and pushing themselves.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
If you don't understand what happened in class to come
home and have to try to work it out without
the teacher, that can be overwhelming for the majority of children.
And it's not what education is meant to be about.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Well, especially when mum and dad try to teach you
the archaic way speak.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
It was different from the eighties, back in the nineties,
whatever it was when we were kids. I mean, I
was a product of early nineteen eighties primary schooling. Yeah,
and they do everything differently today than how they did
it when I was a kid. So it's not fair
for the children. It's also really hard on the parents.
But the other thing is, and we've watched this with
some of our kids, once they have got it figured
out in class, coming home and it's just boring, Like
(09:01):
they sit there and they're so bored, and it really
extinguishes that flame of curiosity when you're just doing boring stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Next thing, it adds to teachers loads.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
I mean I work in around schools all the time
now and I am astounded at how hard teachers work
compared to what they were doing back in the eighties.
Not that I want to belittle what teachers did back then,
but as a comparison, the expectation on teachers today is
extraordinary compared to back then. And the last thing that
they need to be worried about is whether or not
homework got done or whether the dog ate it.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
And I know that from experience. When we've kind of,
you know, shared our views on homework and got a
pardon for each of our children, you can see the
relief in their faces.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
One less child they've got to worry about. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
So, I think the last couple of reasons that I'm
anti homework creates conflict at home, you know, because a
child doesn't want to do it because they are feeling unmotivated,
or they are bored, or they're struggling, and then the
parents are like, you've got to do your homework, and
next thing, you know that there's this big conflict in
the kitchen over whether or not the home work's going
to get done. One of my biggest issues, though, is
(10:03):
that homework leaves less time for the important stuff.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Yeah. I think that that's where I really struggle with
homework policy is just when my kids come home, I
try so hard to be available to them, and yet
I'm going to spend half my afternoon staring at paperwork.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Well not at our house, thank you very much, missus
Happy families. But let me just add something on this though.
If parents are going to let their kids just sit
in front of video games and consume screens and do nothing,
then I probably would rather that they were doing homework.
I mean, that's what I would say about that, because
I want children to be either having some good quality
(10:43):
downtime or using their brains, you know, being efficient, learning, growing, developing,
doing something like that. That's what childhood is kind of for.
But I don't think either of them are really good alternatives.
I'd rather than be doing their art or their music,
or their drama, or their sport or stands in the backyard, yeah,
going for aus, we'men, jumping on the trampoline, actually connecting
with their family, riding the bike down the street to
(11:04):
catch up with a friend. Those are the kinds of
things that I want to see kids doing in the afternoon.
Going to the grocery store with mum to buy the
groceries for tonight.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
That's what I think is far more valuable.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
That's the important stuff that they could be doing, and
sometimes homework gets in the way of that.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
And lastly, it's just.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
So generally uninspiring, like goly who wants to do it?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So that's why I'm against it.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
That's a really great list, and it's given me some
food for thought. And I generally agree with everything that
you're saying. In my experience, most of the homework that's
coming home with our children takes them about ten or
fifteen minutes. And I just I don't see the point
of rocking the boat if it's really not adding anngs
to the overall running of my house.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Well, I guess I've kind of softened my attitude even
though I've gone on this great big rant today, because
of two things. First of all, most of the time,
our kids have been happy to do it, even though
I'm telling them not to. They they're like that it's
just easier if I do it, if they actually sit
down and world.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
And they do. They feel ostracized, whether it be by
their peers or their teachers at times when even though
they have been given that pardon to not do it.
And so yeah, I just I feel like it's really
important that, you know, we kind of run this through
our own filters and work out what's going to work
best for us and our children.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah, In terms of rocking the boat, you know, I
think that if there's no evidence for something and it's
causing distress, challenge and difficulty in the family, it's worth
rocking the boat.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
It's worth So if it was causing distress, then I
would one hundred percent rock the boat. But in most
cases our children have actually not been too worried whether they.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Do it or not.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Now I need to I need to highlight a couple
of things.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
First of all, the confession, I've definitely softened my stance.
The reason is not only because some kids just like
doing homework, but also we're talking about averages, right, So
on average it doesn't help. On average, it's actually neutral
or even harmful. But not every child is average, which
means that in some cases homework might actually be helpful.
And I do say this tentatively because I think any
(13:05):
differences are probably going to be very, very small, and
they might come at substantial costs. But you know, sometimes
homework can help. There are a couple of kinds of
homework that I really do encourage.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yes, I would love you to share that, because they
one hundred percent of things that we support in our
home and have made a significant difference in our children's education.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Number One. Reading. You cannot read to your kids enough.
You cannot get them to read to you enough. Reading, reading, reading.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Of all of the things that we've talked about today,
homework has no evidence to support it in primary school.
But reading. I don't see reading as homework. I see
reading as just what you do because humans read, We
know how to read, and reading is good for our learning,
and we love to read.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
We don't do at homework.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
We don't fill in the reading wheel and say our
read for twenty minutes.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
We just read.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
And the research shows that the more our kids read,
the better they're likely to do academically. That's the typical outcome.
Reading is so strongly associated with great academic outcomes, with curiosity,
with learning, with openness and new experiences, with conscientiousness. This
is the number one thing that I would encourage parents
to do.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
And we love reading with our kids. It's one of
the highlights of our days to just kind of cuddle
up at the end of the night and read a book.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Second thing projects. If the kids are interested in something,
then turn on the computer and let them learn, let
them do projects, let them create, let them connect, let
them develop their understanding of stuff. There's loads, again, loads
of research that shows that when children are self directed
and autonomous in their learning, and they're learning about stuff
that they actually care about, they're going to do better.
(14:38):
And the third thing, I just reckon, do stuff together.
And when you're doing stuff, count or spell or read,
give the children an opportunity to run down the supermarket
aisle and do something. You know, do jobs and chores
for you, cleaning up around the house, be involved in
family life. I don't see that as homework though. I
see that as just living a whole and fulfilling childhood.
(14:58):
So that's my homework speak.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
So take home message for today is there is no
evidence that.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Homework helps in primary school.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
In primary school, yes, but one thing that does definitely
make a huge difference to your children all round is reading, YEP,
reading and self directed learning. And if you can tap
into those areas, your child is just going to thrive.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah, and hopefully if you decide that you want to
talk to your your children's teachers, about it. You won't
be rocking the boat too much. I think it's a
worthwhile conversation because it's not great for our kids. If
your kids are happy doing their homework, just leave them be.
We really hope that this is answered a few questions.
We will link to the homework letter in the show notes.
You can find the homework letter just by typing in
(15:45):
Justin Colson homework letter on Google, but we'll linked to
it in the show notes as well, and we hope
that it's given you more question, no more answers than questions.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I hope there's no more question.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Maybe I need to do my homework on how to
write an outro. The Heavy Families podcast is produced by
Justin Rowland from Bridge Media.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Craig Bruce is our executive producer.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Tomorrow on the podcast, really excited to have a conversation
with the one and only Gabby Stroud.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Gabby is an
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Author of a couple of fabulous books, and we're going
to talk about some old school stuff, especially having a
great relationship with your teacher as the school year fires up.
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