March 8, 2023 • 17 mins
Justin speaks with Dr Anthea Rhodes about parents and play
Topics included in this episode -
- Dr Anthea Rhodes from RCH National Child Health Poll
- Australian Families: How We Play
- How play has changed over the years
- Play is repetitive
- Bandit from Bluey has set a high bar
- Options for play partners
- Screen play
- Outside play
- Risk taking & safety concerns
- Extracurricular activities
Find us on Facebook at Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families
Email us your questions and comments at podcasts@happyfamilies.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
time poor parent who just wants answers Now.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy
Families dot com dot au. Today I'm joined with one
of my favorite podcast guests, dr Anthea Rhodes. We get
to chat pretty regularly about the great work that she
does with the RCH National Child Health Poll. Dr Rhodes
is an Associate Professor of public Health. She's a pediatrician
(00:33):
and she directs the Royal Children's Hospital National Child Health Poll. So, Anthea,
welcome to the podcast. Great to have you along again
to talk about your latest poll.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Thanks Justin, great to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
As always, I wanted to talk to you about this
poll because it struck me as both being awful and
so true and something that I can completely relate to.
And I don't know if I want to admit to this,
but in a nutshell, the latest Royal Children's Hospital National
Child Health Poll found that while more than ninety percent
and a parent said that they enjoyed playing with their
children or their child, thirty six percent said that they
(01:05):
would prefer to do something else. Basically, what you've done
is you've asked two thousand parents about how often they
play with the kids, how it feels to play with
the kids. Why don't you walk us through what you
actually found beyond that one stat.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, so, we also found that around two thirds of
parents said they found it hard or boring to play
with their kids, and that was a more common experience
for dads than it was for mums, and particularly when
children were very young babies. We found that, as you say,
parents sort of knew it was important, so that was
really reassuring to us, but at the same time, they
found it hard to find the time and the energy
(01:42):
to schedule in play. Some parents said they felt like
play these days is just not as good as it
used to be back when they were kids, that kids
have forgotten how to be bored, and that we really
need to think about what play looks like and whether
it's as good as it was perhaps when we were
growing up.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Let me ask you when you were growing up? So
you're a gen xer? That's am I safe in putting
that out there?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Oh? That's pretty safe? Pretty safe?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You and I both fall into that same category. Did
your parents play with you much? Anthea?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Do you know my parents didn't really play with me much.
They were pretty busy, pretty hard working. They had small business.
I've got two sisters who are pretty close in age
to me, and my memories of my childhood were full
of play, but most of it didn't involve my parents,
so there was a lot of us being left to
occupy ourselves. We spent a lot of time, you know,
(02:32):
down the street, around with the neighbors, or in the
back room at my parents' shop actually where we spent
many of our hours after school, and we did a
lot of imaginary play. We had things that we dreamt up,
that we made up that we still laugh about sometimes today,
and lots of parents listening would be maybe able to
relate to that. They think about the fact that we
didn't have devices. We had TV, you know, we had
(02:56):
free to air program TV, so you might have half
an hour in the afternoon where something interesting was on,
but that was it. And things have changed a lot.
This survey showed us that the most common way kids
in Australia are playing today is with devices, and that
they're much more likely to be doing that than they
are to be playing outside. So play has changed. It's
(03:18):
not all bad news, you know. Play is about things,
opportunities for kids to be creative, for them to do
things that are led by themselves, so they think about
what it is they make it up, and that it's
just because it's satisfying mostly fun, but not always. Play
can also be a bit stressful. It might actually, you know,
(03:39):
result in kids being upset. But there's learning in all
of that because it's experimentation. So it has changed, but
it doesn't mean that it's gone away all together. But
we as parents maybe need to think a bit more
about where are the opportunities for play today for our
kids in our busy lives.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So I want to jump in with a couple of
things and bounce them off you and see what your
data says, what your experience is, a pediatrician says, And
I think it's really interesting to go back to your
two thirds. Call it hard or boring. I've really struggled
from the time dad to six kids. But I've really
struggled to quote unquote play with the kids. Once they
were crawling, I used to tickle them and I'd grabbed
(04:18):
their legs as they crawled away and pull them back
to me. And I've always loved wrestling and rough and
tumble play. But if the kids want to sit down
and play a board game, or if they want to,
I don't know, play dress ups or play make believe.
For a parent, there's nothing intrinsically motivating about sitting down
and dragging yourself through the pain of that kind of
child play.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And there's a few reasons for that. I think one
of them, particularly for young children, his play is really repetitive. Yeah,
and that's deliberate. And you know, you would know about
this with your background understanding psychology and how brains work
and how brains grow. But what kids do when they
play is they do the same thing or something very similar.
(04:58):
They just change it a little bit, and they change
it a little bit again, and they changed it a
little bit more. They don't change it enough to make
it interesting for us as parents. They're like, watch me,
watch me now, watch me again, watch me again. You're like,
oh my god, I've seen this. But they are actually
changing things a little bit and experimenting and finding out,
you know, where the line is when they've crossed the line.
They're testing their own boundaries. So I think it's that
(05:20):
repetition about play that can be so tedious for parents.
But is really really important. But I want to pick
up on something else. You said that. I was talking
about this with my husband and as you know, I've
got four kids, and I said, oh, you know, this
is study. It really showed that, you know, parents don't
always want to play with their kids, and especially dads.
And he laughed and he said, well, you know, we
(05:41):
can't all be banned from Bluey Y yes day, Wow,
my second day on the planet.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Look at all this it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So for parents listening to watch who watched the show,
and it is you know, he is great at playing
with his kids, maybe not so great at doing some
of the other tasks around the house. But he's going
to lie on the floor, He'll stand there while they
hose him down. He'll put the dress ups on, you know,
he'll get into the make believe and you can see
(06:16):
how that's fabulous and it's really promoted and it's a
beautiful thing about Blue as a show. But it's also
a high bar to set. And I think what this
study has really shown is that, you know, lots of
people feel that way. It's not that easy. It's not
always intuitive. Some parents have said to us, I don't
think I'm very good at it. I don't know how
(06:37):
to play with my kids. But you know what, there
is no perfect and there are no rules, And you know,
it doesn't have to be make believe. It doesn't have
to be plato, it doesn't have to be trivial pursued.
You know, it can be something really simple. Maybe it
is chasing them down the hallway. Maybe it's more of
that rough and tumble. Maybe it's just something that you,
you know, quizzing each other about. It doesn't even have
(06:58):
to be physical. Maybe it's something you're talking about or
bantering about in the car when you're driving along. So
there are lots of little moments of play in our
normal lives, and I think sometimes as parents we just
don't see them, and maybe we give ourselves a bit
of a raw deal. We're doing better than we think.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, the guilt trip never feels good, and we pack
our bags and send ourselves on one of those pretty regular,
especially when it comes to parenting. The idea that play
can be whatever you want it to be, though, it
really resonates for me because while I mean jumping on
the trampoline, the older I've gotten, the more gravity has
become not my friend, it it hurts me.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I haven't even physically had four children yourself, just.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So I know, I know, and that's kind of a
sensitive area. I probably shouldn't have chosen the trampoline, but
I hate jumping on the trampoline. But if the kids
want to come for a swim or look, like I said,
the rough and tumble stuff or kicking a ball. And
there's plenty of research that shows that dads do some
kinds of play really well and they're not that into
other kinds. Let me ask you, Anthea, when you ask
(07:59):
parents about how much time they have for play, what
were their responses? Are they saying, oh, yeah, I've got
the time, I don't like doing it. Are they saying
I'm flat strap, I'm too busy on Netflix, I've got work, Like,
what sort of responses are you getting?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
We found both. So we found there are some parents
who have the time, but they just prefer to be
doing something else, right, And then there was a round
a third of parents who said that they'd like to
play with their children more, but they felt they, you know,
they were too busy. And that was more common among
parents who were working, perhaps unsurprisingly than those who were
at home full time with their kids, so a bit
of a mixture of things, you know, when it came
(08:34):
to how they prioritize it. But I think one of
the other big things to come out of the study
that's important is that obviously parents are not the only
play partner for kids, so there are other people that
kids play with. And something really interesting and positive for
us out of this study was that around half of
kids most often play by themselves when they're at home.
(08:54):
This is not when they're at school, so they're occupying themselves,
they're doing something and this is not on a device,
So this is time they spent playing, not on a device,
where they're independent, and that's a really important skill and
really reassuring, and I think important for parents to know
how normal that is and how common that is. There
doesn't always have to be someone else involved in play.
(09:15):
It can just be about interacting with your environment. And
then of course there's siblings. For those children who have
got siblings, you know, they're the most common play partner
at home, above parents, above playing on your own. For
really young kids, grandparents, you know, one in ten young
children most often play with their grandparents, and for teenagers,
pets were pretty common in there, around fifteen percent of
(09:37):
the time, so lots of different played partners if you like.
It doesn't always have to be parents, and it doesn't
even have to be anyone, and it's still a really
healthy and important thing for kids to be doing. So
leaving them to their own devices sometimes is absolutely fine.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I do have concerns that kids are playing on greens
more than is healthy. Did you get any data in
the poll about the screenplay stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, so the majority of kids most commonly will play
with the device, so that was around fifty five percent
of children will be playing with the device most days
of the week, and it was older you know, older
kids rather had a higher proportion, so you know, more
like three quarters of teens, and it was less common
in the younger children. And then alongside that was outside play.
(10:27):
Less than half of Australian children play outside most days
of the week. It's a bit more common among teenagers
and among little kids, so probably babies at the park
and you know teens in maybe getting out independently a
bit more. But through that primary school age group, you know,
certainly well under half of Australian kids getting outside most days.
(10:48):
So and that looked the same regardless whether they were
boys or girls, which was really interesting to us as well.
So a big reminder there about how important it is
for kids to get outdoors. You know, we know lots
of things and you know this well. I've heard you
talk about it before, the benefits of being in nature,
in the environment, and then of course that physically active
play that is much more likely to be happening if
(11:09):
you're outside. And related to that was where outside they play,
so you know, is it in your own backyard, is
it in your street, is it down the road? And
for families who had access to a backyard, most commonly
it was still at home. But for teenagers, we're seeing
that they're getting away from home. They you know, they
might be out at the park, and those primary school
(11:30):
age kids generally were less commonly outside. If they are,
it's still at home in the backyard. So you know,
primary school age kids roaming the neighborhood really isn't happening
like it used to when you look at the data
that we collected.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So Dr Rhodes, when we are talking about play, I
want to sort of go back to my childhood for
a second, which is probably inappropriate because we're not living
in the seventiesly eighties anymore. But I've got to ask anyway,
when I was a kid, I used to build billy
carts and ride them down steep hills, and I used
to make homemade skateboard ramps and damage and bruise my
(12:06):
body in all kinds of ways. And as I got
older and became a teenager, I used to catch the
bus to the beach and jump off the rocks and
go surfing in conditions that were not safe. Frankly, especially
for my limited ability. Are kids today taking risks like
we used to back in back in my day?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
And look, you live to tell the tale justin so, yeah,
you've absolutely spot on. A really interesting finding from the
study was that around a third of parents feel a
play should not involve any risk at all. Wow. And
one of the main barriers to children getting outdoors to
play was concerns about safety in the environment. And when
we say safety, it's not strangers necessarily, it's other things
(12:47):
like accident injury, traffic, those sorts of risks. And we're
talking about older kids, you know, not young children, where
obviously there are genuine hazards and risks. You've got to
be really careful, but where we might say, you know what,
if you that up, it's probably okay, but parents often
in around a third of cases don't necessarily agree that
it is anymore. So things have changed, and our ability
(13:11):
to sit comfortably with risk when it comes to our
children has absolutely as a society shifted. You know, there's
always been a spectrum. There's always been the parent who
was not going to be allowing the things that you
were doing, and there's always going to be the parent
who's letting stuff go on that most parents won't, and
that's probably where all the kids end up, but they're
at Johnny's house. But you know, in terms of what
(13:34):
on average we feel comfortable with as a society, it's
really shifted away from risk. And one of the really
important messages I think in that is that actually risk
in play is a key part to how it's educational
and how children learn. So it's a bit experimental play,
as we've talked about, and by testing a boundary and
(13:54):
understanding if you've gone too far in a playful situation,
that's how you learn. So it's very important we're not
suggesting kids are put in situations where the risk is
really high and something is very hazardous, but where it's
just around the boundaries of comfort, you know, trying something independently,
getting out there by themselves, but you know, having a
(14:16):
plan for a safety net or a backup, having a
plan to what they'll do if it doesn't go right.
Then that way you're giving them a chance to learn
by testing things out.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
One more question for you around play parents schedules, what
about just the extracurricular activities. I guess what I'm curious
about is whether or not you found to any evidence
of kids being overscheduled and the kids not having time
for play, let alone, the parents not being inclined to play,
any data around that that you found compelling and useful
(14:50):
for this conversation.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yes, so definitely. You know about a quarter of children
parents reported they didn't have enough time for play because
they were busy doing other things, and commonly those things
involved shed activities. So there is no doubt that extracurricular
activities do impact on free play opportunities for kids some
parents had if you like a misunderstanding that scheduled sport
(15:12):
and arranged you know, training activities are play. They can
be playful, and they're certainly good for kids in other ways,
there might be lots of benefits there. I'm certainly not
suggesting kids shouldn't get out there and get involved in
community sport, but they're not generally play child led and
free in terms of a gender and activity in the
(15:32):
way that true players. So the learning and the benefits
and the experience are different. So it does suggest, you know,
our study, we're back to schedule activities. You know, they
all disappeared for a while in COVID, and we saw
much more traditional patterns of play happening. You know, kids
were back riding around the streets, they were digging holes,
they were you know, building things in trees, because all
(15:54):
that scheduled time activity you know, went away. So really
interesting to see that we pretty much swung right back.
Some families are still not doing as much as they
did before, you know, they maybe feel like they've found
a new balance, but then for others it's all back on.
So it's going to be different for every child and
every kid. But there's definitely consideration there that if you
(16:16):
fill time with stuff that's organized and scheduled, there's going
to be less time for the free activity, and that's
where some of the real learning happens when it comes
to play.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Doctor Anthea Rhodes, always a delight to talk to you,
Doctor Anthea Rhodes, thanks so much for joining me on
the podcast again.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
My pleasure, justin great to chat as always.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
That is doctor Anthea Rhodes. She is the director of
the Royal Children's Hospital Child Health Poll. Look forward to
having Anthea back on the podcast again real soon. Pediatrician,
mum of four and all round fabulous lady. Tonight. Just
a quick reminder tonight we've got a free webinar for
you if you want to be more resilient as a parent.
(16:54):
The webinar is on You can get all the details
via our Facebook page Doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families. Free
webinar only thirty minutes, really short, really jam packed with
info designed to help you to become a more resilient parent.
Please join me for that free If in case you
missed the first three times I said it free webinar,
it's tonight. All the details are at our Facebook page
(17:16):
Doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families
It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
time poor parent who just wants answers Now.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy
Families dot com dot au. Today I'm joined with one
of my favorite podcast guests, dr Anthea Rhodes. We get
to chat pretty regularly about the great work that she
does with the RCH National Child Health Poll. Dr Rhodes
is an Associate Professor of public Health. She's a pediatrician
(00:33):
and she directs the Royal Children's Hospital National Child Health Poll. So, Anthea,
welcome to the podcast. Great to have you along again
to talk about your latest poll.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Thanks Justin, great to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
As always, I wanted to talk to you about this
poll because it struck me as both being awful and
so true and something that I can completely relate to.
And I don't know if I want to admit to this,
but in a nutshell, the latest Royal Children's Hospital National
Child Health Poll found that while more than ninety percent
and a parent said that they enjoyed playing with their
children or their child, thirty six percent said that they
(01:05):
would prefer to do something else. Basically, what you've done
is you've asked two thousand parents about how often they
play with the kids, how it feels to play with
the kids. Why don't you walk us through what you
actually found beyond that one stat.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, so, we also found that around two thirds of
parents said they found it hard or boring to play
with their kids, and that was a more common experience
for dads than it was for mums, and particularly when
children were very young babies. We found that, as you say,
parents sort of knew it was important, so that was
really reassuring to us, but at the same time, they
found it hard to find the time and the energy
(01:42):
to schedule in play. Some parents said they felt like
play these days is just not as good as it
used to be back when they were kids, that kids
have forgotten how to be bored, and that we really
need to think about what play looks like and whether
it's as good as it was perhaps when we were
growing up.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Let me ask you when you were growing up? So
you're a gen xer? That's am I safe in putting
that out there?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Oh? That's pretty safe? Pretty safe?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You and I both fall into that same category. Did
your parents play with you much? Anthea?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Do you know my parents didn't really play with me much.
They were pretty busy, pretty hard working. They had small business.
I've got two sisters who are pretty close in age
to me, and my memories of my childhood were full
of play, but most of it didn't involve my parents,
so there was a lot of us being left to
occupy ourselves. We spent a lot of time, you know,
(02:32):
down the street, around with the neighbors, or in the
back room at my parents' shop actually where we spent
many of our hours after school, and we did a
lot of imaginary play. We had things that we dreamt up,
that we made up that we still laugh about sometimes today,
and lots of parents listening would be maybe able to
relate to that. They think about the fact that we
didn't have devices. We had TV, you know, we had
(02:56):
free to air program TV, so you might have half
an hour in the afternoon where something interesting was on,
but that was it. And things have changed a lot.
This survey showed us that the most common way kids
in Australia are playing today is with devices, and that
they're much more likely to be doing that than they
are to be playing outside. So play has changed. It's
(03:18):
not all bad news, you know. Play is about things,
opportunities for kids to be creative, for them to do
things that are led by themselves, so they think about
what it is they make it up, and that it's
just because it's satisfying mostly fun, but not always. Play
can also be a bit stressful. It might actually, you know,
(03:39):
result in kids being upset. But there's learning in all
of that because it's experimentation. So it has changed, but
it doesn't mean that it's gone away all together. But
we as parents maybe need to think a bit more
about where are the opportunities for play today for our
kids in our busy lives.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So I want to jump in with a couple of
things and bounce them off you and see what your
data says, what your experience is, a pediatrician says, And
I think it's really interesting to go back to your
two thirds. Call it hard or boring. I've really struggled
from the time dad to six kids. But I've really
struggled to quote unquote play with the kids. Once they
were crawling, I used to tickle them and I'd grabbed
(04:18):
their legs as they crawled away and pull them back
to me. And I've always loved wrestling and rough and
tumble play. But if the kids want to sit down
and play a board game, or if they want to,
I don't know, play dress ups or play make believe.
For a parent, there's nothing intrinsically motivating about sitting down
and dragging yourself through the pain of that kind of
child play.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And there's a few reasons for that. I think one
of them, particularly for young children, his play is really repetitive. Yeah,
and that's deliberate. And you know, you would know about
this with your background understanding psychology and how brains work
and how brains grow. But what kids do when they
play is they do the same thing or something very similar.
(04:58):
They just change it a little bit, and they change
it a little bit again, and they changed it a
little bit more. They don't change it enough to make
it interesting for us as parents. They're like, watch me,
watch me now, watch me again, watch me again. You're like,
oh my god, I've seen this. But they are actually
changing things a little bit and experimenting and finding out,
you know, where the line is when they've crossed the line.
They're testing their own boundaries. So I think it's that
(05:20):
repetition about play that can be so tedious for parents.
But is really really important. But I want to pick
up on something else. You said that. I was talking
about this with my husband and as you know, I've
got four kids, and I said, oh, you know, this
is study. It really showed that, you know, parents don't
always want to play with their kids, and especially dads.
And he laughed and he said, well, you know, we
(05:41):
can't all be banned from Bluey Y yes day, Wow,
my second day on the planet.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Look at all this it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So for parents listening to watch who watched the show,
and it is you know, he is great at playing
with his kids, maybe not so great at doing some
of the other tasks around the house. But he's going
to lie on the floor, He'll stand there while they
hose him down. He'll put the dress ups on, you know,
he'll get into the make believe and you can see
(06:16):
how that's fabulous and it's really promoted and it's a
beautiful thing about Blue as a show. But it's also
a high bar to set. And I think what this
study has really shown is that, you know, lots of
people feel that way. It's not that easy. It's not
always intuitive. Some parents have said to us, I don't
think I'm very good at it. I don't know how
(06:37):
to play with my kids. But you know what, there
is no perfect and there are no rules, And you know,
it doesn't have to be make believe. It doesn't have
to be plato, it doesn't have to be trivial pursued.
You know, it can be something really simple. Maybe it
is chasing them down the hallway. Maybe it's more of
that rough and tumble. Maybe it's just something that you,
you know, quizzing each other about. It doesn't even have
(06:58):
to be physical. Maybe it's something you're talking about or
bantering about in the car when you're driving along. So
there are lots of little moments of play in our
normal lives, and I think sometimes as parents we just
don't see them, and maybe we give ourselves a bit
of a raw deal. We're doing better than we think.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, the guilt trip never feels good, and we pack
our bags and send ourselves on one of those pretty regular,
especially when it comes to parenting. The idea that play
can be whatever you want it to be, though, it
really resonates for me because while I mean jumping on
the trampoline, the older I've gotten, the more gravity has
become not my friend, it it hurts me.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I haven't even physically had four children yourself, just.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So I know, I know, and that's kind of a
sensitive area. I probably shouldn't have chosen the trampoline, but
I hate jumping on the trampoline. But if the kids
want to come for a swim or look, like I said,
the rough and tumble stuff or kicking a ball. And
there's plenty of research that shows that dads do some
kinds of play really well and they're not that into
other kinds. Let me ask you, Anthea, when you ask
(07:59):
parents about how much time they have for play, what
were their responses? Are they saying, oh, yeah, I've got
the time, I don't like doing it. Are they saying
I'm flat strap, I'm too busy on Netflix, I've got work, Like,
what sort of responses are you getting?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
We found both. So we found there are some parents
who have the time, but they just prefer to be
doing something else, right, And then there was a round
a third of parents who said that they'd like to
play with their children more, but they felt they, you know,
they were too busy. And that was more common among
parents who were working, perhaps unsurprisingly than those who were
at home full time with their kids, so a bit
of a mixture of things, you know, when it came
(08:34):
to how they prioritize it. But I think one of
the other big things to come out of the study
that's important is that obviously parents are not the only
play partner for kids, so there are other people that
kids play with. And something really interesting and positive for
us out of this study was that around half of
kids most often play by themselves when they're at home.
(08:54):
This is not when they're at school, so they're occupying themselves,
they're doing something and this is not on a device,
So this is time they spent playing, not on a device,
where they're independent, and that's a really important skill and
really reassuring, and I think important for parents to know
how normal that is and how common that is. There
doesn't always have to be someone else involved in play.
(09:15):
It can just be about interacting with your environment. And
then of course there's siblings. For those children who have
got siblings, you know, they're the most common play partner
at home, above parents, above playing on your own. For
really young kids, grandparents, you know, one in ten young
children most often play with their grandparents, and for teenagers,
pets were pretty common in there, around fifteen percent of
(09:37):
the time, so lots of different played partners if you like.
It doesn't always have to be parents, and it doesn't
even have to be anyone, and it's still a really
healthy and important thing for kids to be doing. So
leaving them to their own devices sometimes is absolutely fine.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I do have concerns that kids are playing on greens
more than is healthy. Did you get any data in
the poll about the screenplay stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, so the majority of kids most commonly will play
with the device, so that was around fifty five percent
of children will be playing with the device most days
of the week, and it was older you know, older
kids rather had a higher proportion, so you know, more
like three quarters of teens, and it was less common
in the younger children. And then alongside that was outside play.
(10:27):
Less than half of Australian children play outside most days
of the week. It's a bit more common among teenagers
and among little kids, so probably babies at the park
and you know teens in maybe getting out independently a
bit more. But through that primary school age group, you know,
certainly well under half of Australian kids getting outside most days.
(10:48):
So and that looked the same regardless whether they were
boys or girls, which was really interesting to us as well.
So a big reminder there about how important it is
for kids to get outdoors. You know, we know lots
of things and you know this well. I've heard you
talk about it before, the benefits of being in nature,
in the environment, and then of course that physically active
play that is much more likely to be happening if
(11:09):
you're outside. And related to that was where outside they play,
so you know, is it in your own backyard, is
it in your street, is it down the road? And
for families who had access to a backyard, most commonly
it was still at home. But for teenagers, we're seeing
that they're getting away from home. They you know, they
might be out at the park, and those primary school
(11:30):
age kids generally were less commonly outside. If they are,
it's still at home in the backyard. So you know,
primary school age kids roaming the neighborhood really isn't happening
like it used to when you look at the data
that we collected.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So Dr Rhodes, when we are talking about play, I
want to sort of go back to my childhood for
a second, which is probably inappropriate because we're not living
in the seventiesly eighties anymore. But I've got to ask anyway,
when I was a kid, I used to build billy
carts and ride them down steep hills, and I used
to make homemade skateboard ramps and damage and bruise my
(12:06):
body in all kinds of ways. And as I got
older and became a teenager, I used to catch the
bus to the beach and jump off the rocks and
go surfing in conditions that were not safe. Frankly, especially
for my limited ability. Are kids today taking risks like
we used to back in back in my day?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
And look, you live to tell the tale justin so, yeah,
you've absolutely spot on. A really interesting finding from the
study was that around a third of parents feel a
play should not involve any risk at all. Wow. And
one of the main barriers to children getting outdoors to
play was concerns about safety in the environment. And when
we say safety, it's not strangers necessarily, it's other things
(12:47):
like accident injury, traffic, those sorts of risks. And we're
talking about older kids, you know, not young children, where
obviously there are genuine hazards and risks. You've got to
be really careful, but where we might say, you know what,
if you that up, it's probably okay, but parents often
in around a third of cases don't necessarily agree that
it is anymore. So things have changed, and our ability
(13:11):
to sit comfortably with risk when it comes to our
children has absolutely as a society shifted. You know, there's
always been a spectrum. There's always been the parent who
was not going to be allowing the things that you
were doing, and there's always going to be the parent
who's letting stuff go on that most parents won't, and
that's probably where all the kids end up, but they're
at Johnny's house. But you know, in terms of what
(13:34):
on average we feel comfortable with as a society, it's
really shifted away from risk. And one of the really
important messages I think in that is that actually risk
in play is a key part to how it's educational
and how children learn. So it's a bit experimental play,
as we've talked about, and by testing a boundary and
(13:54):
understanding if you've gone too far in a playful situation,
that's how you learn. So it's very important we're not
suggesting kids are put in situations where the risk is
really high and something is very hazardous, but where it's
just around the boundaries of comfort, you know, trying something independently,
getting out there by themselves, but you know, having a
(14:16):
plan for a safety net or a backup, having a
plan to what they'll do if it doesn't go right.
Then that way you're giving them a chance to learn
by testing things out.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
One more question for you around play parents schedules, what
about just the extracurricular activities. I guess what I'm curious
about is whether or not you found to any evidence
of kids being overscheduled and the kids not having time
for play, let alone, the parents not being inclined to play,
any data around that that you found compelling and useful
(14:50):
for this conversation.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yes, so definitely. You know about a quarter of children
parents reported they didn't have enough time for play because
they were busy doing other things, and commonly those things
involved shed activities. So there is no doubt that extracurricular
activities do impact on free play opportunities for kids some
parents had if you like a misunderstanding that scheduled sport
(15:12):
and arranged you know, training activities are play. They can
be playful, and they're certainly good for kids in other ways,
there might be lots of benefits there. I'm certainly not
suggesting kids shouldn't get out there and get involved in
community sport, but they're not generally play child led and
free in terms of a gender and activity in the
(15:32):
way that true players. So the learning and the benefits
and the experience are different. So it does suggest, you know,
our study, we're back to schedule activities. You know, they
all disappeared for a while in COVID, and we saw
much more traditional patterns of play happening. You know, kids
were back riding around the streets, they were digging holes,
they were you know, building things in trees, because all
(15:54):
that scheduled time activity you know, went away. So really
interesting to see that we pretty much swung right back.
Some families are still not doing as much as they
did before, you know, they maybe feel like they've found
a new balance, but then for others it's all back on.
So it's going to be different for every child and
every kid. But there's definitely consideration there that if you
(16:16):
fill time with stuff that's organized and scheduled, there's going
to be less time for the free activity, and that's
where some of the real learning happens when it comes
to play.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Doctor Anthea Rhodes, always a delight to talk to you,
Doctor Anthea Rhodes, thanks so much for joining me on
the podcast again.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
My pleasure, justin great to chat as always.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
That is doctor Anthea Rhodes. She is the director of
the Royal Children's Hospital Child Health Poll. Look forward to
having Anthea back on the podcast again real soon. Pediatrician,
mum of four and all round fabulous lady. Tonight. Just
a quick reminder tonight we've got a free webinar for
you if you want to be more resilient as a parent.
(16:54):
The webinar is on You can get all the details
via our Facebook page Doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families. Free
webinar only thirty minutes, really short, really jam packed with
info designed to help you to become a more resilient parent.
Please join me for that free If in case you
missed the first three times I said it free webinar,
it's tonight. All the details are at our Facebook page
(17:16):
Doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families
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