The Book of Joe: ALCS/NLCS Updates!

The Book of Joe Podcast with hosts Tom Verducci and Joe Maddon updating the status of the ALCS and the NLCS.  How important is it to score first in a postseason game? What can the Astros do to get back in this series?  After Tom describes his four hour bus trip through Texas, we look at the Phillies matchup against the Diamondbacks.  What continues to make this Philly team so special?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey there, welcome back. It's the latest edition of the
Book of Joe podcast, the League Championship Series edition. Hey
Joe Madden, I don't know. I'm sure you're paying attention here.

(00:26):
Eight postseason series so far, we've had six sweeps and
we have not had a series yet go to the
maximum number of games. And now we're looking at the
lcs's both two games to non leads for obviously Philadelphia
and Texas. Do you think, based on where we're at

(00:46):
here too, O in the LCS, we have any chance
of getting to a game seven in either LCS.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
It doesn't look that way. I'd have to agree with you.
And who knows why. I mean, it just seems like
the team that does throw the first punch and lands
it is really putting themselves in a good position. Just
watching these games, it's been dominant on both sides. The
Phillies obviously really dominant to a certain extent, even with
the Rangers. So there's the pitching stays healthy and well,

(01:17):
in which it should. And it's a short series like this,
and nobody's been really be extended on the winning side
and their bullpens Man. Yeah, I don't see it changing
that much. To get to Game seven is is really
difficult to imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, you talked about getting off the starts. Obviously in
the series, we're seeing that. Let's talk about getting off
the good starts in the game. When you're imagining postseason games,
I'm sure you hear all the talk from the media. Hey,
it's important to get on the board first. Just to
give you a couple of numbers. In the regular season,
if your team scores first, you win about sixty seven
percent of the time. This year, in the postseason, you

(01:54):
score first, you win seventy two percent of the time
eighteen and seven so far in the postseason. Was that
something Joe, when you're running a postseason game that you
are a little more aware of. I mean, of course
everybody wants to score first, but the importance is scoring
first in the postseason. Was that something on your radar?

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah? I mean my mantra all season I'd start yelling
in the first inning, score first, and score first at
score first. I would always be about scoring first from
the from spring training games on. You would always hear
me yell at and I wanted them to hear that
because I wanted to become part of our culture and
then not only score first, but I want us to
score last. Point is my jug run. I call it

(02:35):
the jug run where you score in the bottom of
the eighth with the leader or the top of the
ninth with the league, so that you take all momentum
away from the other side. So it was always about
scoring first and scoring lost. Obviously, that's a good position
to be in. And what I think happens in the playoffs,
and we've talked about this, and one of the things
I talk to my teams about, Listen, things are not

(02:55):
always going to go perfectly. Things are going to go
sideways or awry, and we cannot permit that to like
multiply against us. And I think that's what happens. You'll
see at bats get last stamp on the team that's behind.
You'll just see looks and I look at faces a lot, man,
that's just what I do. I look at eyeballs and
faces and you can just see there's not that believability
in the team that gets down compared to obviously to

(03:17):
the one that jumps on top. They just they garner momentum.
They don't give it up. And if you have any
kind of a bullpen at all, it's really difficult to
get on top of these guys late. So I think,
really advantage score first and always score last, to really
to throw some dirt on them.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Now I have read that Joe Madden glossary back and forth.
So for our fans who have not, you must explain
jug runs. You did buy what it is, but where
that name comes from.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, I want him to go for the jugular instructional leagues.
Back in the eighties, I was big on it. I
was big on I mean, you think about it when
as a manager in the Texas League, in the in
the Northwest League, Texas League and also Midwest League, it
was obvious to me that latter part of the game,

(04:05):
whenever you whenever somebody would score against us and their
last at bat when they already had a lead, manager,
it just took the air up. But if you could,
particularly in a close game, if you could keep them
from doing that, at least it presents some hope. Conversely,
when we had the lead, I would do anything we
possibly could to push across another run, just to take
a little bit of the air out of that balloon.

(04:27):
So I called the jug run. Go for the jugular
in the latter part of the game. I think it's
a great concept. I did preach it from nineteen, say,
eighty five, eighty six on to the present time. And
that's it. Score first, score last, go for the jugular.
That is our jug run.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
So game three of the lcs's you've got Euston going
on the road to Texas and you've got the Diamondbacks
at home against Philadelphia in Game three. Now, when you're
down two games to none, does the importance of scoring
first become even bigger? And would that effect the way
you ran the game as a manager?

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Well, well, it does obviously to the team that's down,
they need something to bost of their confidence. Now, it
doesn't always matter, because if the other team's just better
and they're playing better, they're still going to come back.
But you need something when you're down like that, You
need something again to make you feel better about yourselves,
have some kind of a surge of confidence. Yes, and

(05:25):
so what you're talking about possibly is, yeah, just do
anything you can to score a run. I mean you
might even suggest bunch for hit, move a runner, do
some little things right here to get on top However,
when you're playing against a bunch of bangers, like especially
with the Phillies right now, that con mitigate a lot
of this. But I would, yes, promote doing things to

(05:46):
get that one runner get on top. And they're in
the regular season. What I even permit myself to think
about is even making it out on the basis to
become more aggressive, become more assertive, stop worrying about making
mistakes or being passive, whatever it takes to become more
AGGRESSI we're assertive. That's what I would do mentally, and
then I would try to push that managerial button to

(06:08):
make them become more assertive too. So, yes, you want
to get on top, you want to stay right there,
and that could mean a big difference when you're down
to to nothing.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Speaking of bunting, which you know the analytics community does
not love. The other day is before Game two, I
was talking to Bruce Boccie, manager of the Rangers. Of course,
and I've seen enough of from Valdez. I know this
is a guy who does not like throwing to bases,
he doesn't like picking off, he doesn't like fielding his position.
He's just, you know, one of these pitchers and Joe,

(06:39):
you've seen it. I'm sure it's just not comfortable with
the ball in their hands and they throw hand grenades
to the bases. So I asked Bouch about running against
Valdez because he also does is pretty slow to the plate,
and he basically went with the bunting angle, even though
I was asking about face stealing, and he said, listen,
we don't have anybody in our lineup who really likes

(07:00):
to put the ball on the ground with a bunt.
I mean, that is the game today, right, You have
something that you can do to take advantage of the
other pitcher's weakness, and yet it's not and anybody's quiver,
they don't have that tool. And I asked Marcus Simeon,
very smart, extremely smart baseball player, handles about well, obviously
runs well. And I asked him if he ever bunts

(07:22):
and he says, no, I really don't bunt. And his
explanation was that to get a bunt down for a
bass hit, he has to put it in just the
right spot. He feels like he has a better chance
of getting a double that he does of putting a
bunt down, which I thought was interesting. But you know,
these guys as you know, most don't practice the bunt.
They don't do it coming up and lo and behold,

(07:43):
as the game turns out, Robbie Grossman and the Rangers
hits the swinging bunt third bat of the game, and
of course, you know, the Valdez just again mishandled it
and like it was a wet bar of soap, chucked
it down the line and a fire drill was often
going on the base path. So you know, it worked
out because there was a swinging bunch. But you know,

(08:04):
I'd like your idea. And I was talking to Derek
Jeter about this. You know, you saw Derek Jeter do
it a lot, and he said, listen, I would move
the runners up, especially even early in the game, but
late in the game if you're down to run, if
you've got two guys out on and you're down to
you're the home team. He said, yeah, I would not
give myself up totally, but I would bunt basically for

(08:26):
a base hit and if they've made a good play
through me out, the worst thing going to happen was
the runners move up. And we just don't see a
lot of that going And I know, Joe, for you,
you've had guys who maybe were able to do that.
I'm guessing you you like that in a playoff atmosphere.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
I love it. First of all, you're right. What happens
is you get all your information and you'll say Perducci's
a badfielder. That's spun on Perducci. And then that's just
like people coming in and making the presentation that I'm saying,
we have nobody that can really do that. I mean,
you have teams that literally guys are not really good bunners,
are not bunners at all. A part of that is

(09:05):
it's not been nurtured at all in the minor league system.
And part of that is that, like you said, analytically,
it's considered not a good play until you actually need it.
Then it becomes a good play. So there's a lot
of guys you had the bad fielding picture. You know this,
and this has happened I don't know often during the
course of the year. We know that, but we still
can't get the bunt down, and get the bunt down
to make him handle it. I e. Johnny Lester, and

(09:27):
we had Lester with the Cobies. Of course, Johnny did
not like to throw the bases so early on in
that in my time there, I love to put Hobby
air bias at third base when we could. Hobby would
just get in there. I tell Johnny, we told Johnny,
Hobby's got third, rizz has got first, the catcher's got
the front. You got nothing. You got nothing to do
right here, And we would just challenge guys to bunt

(09:48):
and have Hobby make the play because he would. He
would just put himself in position to make that play.
So there's waste to mitigate this. Also at the bad
fielding picture, which you do defensively with your guys on
the field, and the outlier of that is the fact
that by doing that, maybe not maybe, of course your
third base was closer, which limits his range on the

(10:09):
ground ball to third base side. However, you'll take these
chances and listen, I've had charts that really indicates where
the guy's going to the ground ball against a certain pitcher.
Believe it or not, they got a look at Kyle
Hendricks for instance. Kyle Hendricks ground balls are at shortstop
or second base rare, and Jake Creight it rare to
third base rare. Ground ball is the third base? Do
you enough to worry about that. If you had a

(10:30):
good hitter and not a very good defender and you
want to get him in the game, Tommy, listella, Tommy
with there yet at pitching was perfect because very few
ground balls are going to go to the third base.
We're going to throw Tommy over there. As an example,
you consider all these different things as you're setting your
lineup or you're setting up your defense. So, yeah, last
point you said, Jeter, I love that. So it really

(10:51):
has evolved into that point now with hitters because guys
don't like to square around. I mean, guys aren't comfortable
scaring around a lot and a lot of it is velocity,
quite frankly, and that's another thing. Man, Okay, Tommy, I
want you to butt right here. Guys throw in ninety
seven ninety eight miles an hour. It's not easy. It's
not easy to do that with In the day, you
would have primarily like low ninety guys, maybe high eighty guys,

(11:14):
sinker ball pitchers, squaring up, putting the ball down. It
was a different task when you got elevated. Basketball is
coming at you at ninety five plus. Not easy to
get on top of that ball and put it down.
As your butnt so. I do like the concept of
bunning for a hit. You hold back a little bit,
you square later, you get the clibhead out first, and
with that always let the batthead move first, body move second.

(11:37):
That would be the teaching points in regards to that.
So I can go on on about this because I'm
big on this, but you have to nurture it and
teach it, and teach it early and then during the season.
Don't just put in your back pocket. Make sure you
guys get out and bunt sometimes.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, to me, bunting and bunning for hits, it's a lot.
To me, it's equivalent to putting. It takes commitment, but
it also takes practice. You know, you just can't go
out there and go buy feel and say it like
you said, facing ninety seven, Oh in the bunt right now.
But if you commit to it and work on it,
you know it's the skill that you can have. And
I'll give you an example. Jose L Tuove. Now I'm

(12:14):
not sure if he's going to start Game three the
Alcs with a bunt, but he crushes in that ballpark.
He loves the ballpark. But he did against Minnesota and
he hit a first pitch home run to start one game.
The next game, he sees the third baseman basically playing
back in left field. Leading off the game, he dropped
a bunt. And then we get to the Alcs and

(12:35):
the Texas Rangers, even though he just bunted in the
last series, leading off have their third basement playing super deep,
and Jose al Tuove he took the pitch, but he
looked a bunt. It was not a good pitch to bun,
but he had that in his mind. He saw where
the third baseman was playing. So I like the fact
that at least it's an option for Jose al Tuove.
And I'll tell you, Joe, I don't think it's a
bad play to start game three with a bunt to

(12:57):
get yourself on base against Max Scherzer.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
What it does also when you're successful doing something like that,
it puts the other team on its heels. I missed
on you does It's like a surprise kind of thing.
We didn't expect this kind of thing. It kind of
nicks or chips away at your veneer. Regarding preparation. All
these things are unintentionally put in there. You don't even
thinking about it, but it's there, look at Matt Chapman.

(13:22):
I know you've watched Matt Chapman. You ever know is
how deep plays at third base. I cannot believe how
deeply this guy will play at third base, even against
guys that could run a little bit. He's so confident
in his ability to charge and throw. And I had
guys that were decent bunners that still wouldn't bun on
them because the reason I just gave so all this
stuff is in there. Yes, if you could successfully lead

(13:44):
off a game with the bunt, there's a weird advantage
that goes in your favor because it does with teams
on their heels.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Well, the Diamondbacks and the Astros to Mae, Joe therein
must win situation, I realized that they're only down two
and not three. Literally, it's not most must win. But
let's face it, other than the for Red Sox against
the Yankees, nobody's coming back from down three. It's just
too much to ask at this point. So yeah, I

(14:11):
imagining Joe. If you're the manager, if you're Dusty Baker,
if you're Tory Lavello, you have to run that game
like it's a game seven.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
No question, no question, you just there's no patience right here.
It is the fireman mentality. It is all hands on deck,
that you cannot wait for somebody to get their their
mojo going their feet on the ground. It's got to
And we're talking pitching primarily. We're also talking about pinching.
I know it came up with Moldonado the other day.
The one game he was pinched it for the other

(14:40):
one he was not. Timmy was just on context where
vir Lander was still in a one nothing game in
Valdez had already given it up early. But the point
is there's nothing to be waiting for. There's no patience
to be had. If you're leading, of course it's a
different story. But when you're even or behind, you have
to be a little bit more asserted regarding what you
may do. So all those things are in play for

(15:02):
this game last play. Sure's see, this is the perfect
spot for him right now, being up to to nothing,
really not knowing what he's going to do tonight. You know,
you'd have to bet on his pedigree a little bit.
But the fact that he you know, the last couple
of starts weren't that good. He had just all this
these issues, this year. This could be this can go

(15:23):
five innings and seventy five pitches, or fourties and seventy five,
or you can go to two and seventy five whatever,
and Boach you'll have his handle on that whole thing.
I know he will. But that's an interesting part. But
it's perfect for Texas. They have a little bit of
wiggle room there to see what they got, not only
for the rest of this series, but possibly advancing getting
to the World Series. Having a Max Scherzer.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Back good points, and we need to dive a little
more into that. It's fascinating. I'm not sure if I
can recall the last time a pitcher went out there
to start an ELCS game on thirty six days of rest,
but we'll talk about that after we take a quick break.

(16:11):
Welcome back to the LCS edition of the Book of
Joe Podcasts, and Game three is Max Schurz are on
the mound for the Texas Rangers and Joe. I spoke
with Max yesterday. He did throw a simulated game and
all the signs were good. For what that's worth, now,
you know it's not you know, you can't simulate the

(16:33):
energy and adrenaline of a game, but he went out there,
he threw four innings, felt so good that he's told Boche,
I want to throw another one. And what Max said
was the best part about that day. And he felt
good throughout it. But he said in the fifth inning
his stuff held. It was the same stuff he had
when he started out there, so his stuff did not
drop off. Now, he said, he's never been through anything

(16:56):
like this. And I know fans will remember he had
the neck issue in the twenty nineteen World Series, had
to miss the start, came back from that and did
make start and pitched well. Last year he had oblique
issues came off of that, But he said the difference
here is that those issues were not related to his arm.
This began as forearm tightness and it turned out to

(17:19):
be a muscle that's kind of near the armpit area
underneath the arm that wasn't allowing him to get extended.
He felt cut off. So he goes on the IL
and he was expected to miss five weeks basically what
he has done, and that sim game was about sixty
eight sixty nine pitches. Joe, I think that's all he's
got tonight. I think seventy five is the max. I

(17:40):
think for Bruce Bochi. To me, the question is do
you allow him to pitch out of a second jam
in that game. I don't think he's pitching New Jordan
Alvarez a third time. I don't think he's going that
far in the game. It's probably about an eighteen batter
max for Max Scherzer, and Bouchie will have his long
relievers Andrew Heeney, Dane Dunning, Bradford, those guys will all

(18:00):
have their spikes out of the first inning ready to go,
and then after the game is played, he'll worry about
Game four, which is a piggyback game for Bruce Boccie.
So that's the game plan for the Rangers going in.
I'm with you, Joe, I'm not sure what Max Schurzer
is going to be able to do. You trust the heart,
you trust the experience. He's going to compete, we all
know that. But in terms of command after being out

(18:24):
for that long, I don't know. I don't think anybody knows.
But the signs are good. As far as his health,
I don't think he's limited and what he can throw
velocity wise, you know, pitch wise, I think he's full go.
As you know, Joe, though you get in these situation
with so much rest. The first thing I would look
for in the first inning is command, no question.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
And I also believe Houston's going to be ready to
attack early. They want to set a tone in this game.
I know you talked about the bunt without two bad
that's possible, but up and down that lineup. But it's
not like they're going to go out there to try
to work account with them because they know he's going
to be limited regardless. It's more like ups and downs
as a post number of pitches thrown with him, So
they're gonna be looking at one spot. They're gonna have

(19:06):
their game plan working, and if it doesn't have that
normal carry on the ball like he had he normally has,
Houston's going to come out hit some balls pretty well.
I think number two you talked about it. I even
say the second time three, you got to be very careful.
It depends on the obviously, what the game looks like,
how it's been playing out, how Texas has been doing
against their pitching. But I would line it up for

(19:28):
the second time through making sure that the bullpens alert
left hand left on left when you start a right hander,
I always look for a left hander to take left
handed hitter to take my pitcher out, So you're looking
at the lefties, So that would be what the third
hitter up is That.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Normally probably Hani or Bradford, probably, but I think it's
probably HAINI Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
I agree, But that would be even the second time round.
He's got to be aware of that. And of course
the first time through is going to tell him a lot.
But even if he goes like go through one through
nine relatively well, I still doesn't make me relax that
second time too, and especially with the lefties. And having
said that, Tucker and Aubridge don't care you're left handed,

(20:12):
and after they kind of like it. So it's a
tough call, but you have to be, like you're saying,
all hands on deck at that point.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
You know, Joe, in the past episode, I recall you
talking about the two thousand and two Angel staff coaching staff,
and obviously Mike Soci was the manager, but you know,
Buddy Black and you and Ron Rennicky and ALFREDI Griffin
a lot of experience. It was the cradle of managers
future managers on that staff. I look at the Texas
Rangers staff, and let me tell you, folks, they're having

(20:39):
an impact on this series. You know Tim Hyers, the
hitting coach. Will Venable is their outfield and bench coach.
By the way, as you know, Joe, most teams go
into Minute May Park at Houston and the analytics tell
them to guard the gap and left field because that's
the open area. That Rangers didn't do that. They made
two spectacular plays defensively. They held a run around second
on a two out base hit because they were playing

(21:01):
where the guys hit and not playing to the ballpark
that was on Will Vettable. And then you got to
go to Mike Maddox, the pitching coach. This is his
twenty first year as a pitching coach in Major League Baseball,
and Bruce Bochi said it after Game one, the guy
is a master at game planning. So let me take
you inside what the Rangers are doing to the Houston Astros.
Because the Astros were the best hitting team in the

(21:23):
American League this year against fastballs. They hit two seventy nine.
They're hitting one sixty in the ALCS against fastballs. And
it's not because the Rangers are throwing more of them.
They're throwing fewer of them. Their pitch mix has been
just outstanding. They're moving the ball in and out, up

(21:43):
and down and changing velocity. They're also taking the very
aggressive Houston hitters, the most aggressive hitters and starting them
as if the counts O two with breaking stuff and
they're they're speeding them up, slowing them down. It's just
been a master plan of pitch mixing. And I'll give
you the numbers here in the regular season, the Rangers
through about forty six percent fastballs, not including cutters. Here,

(22:06):
four seamers, two seamers, forty six percent in the regular season,
forty six percent in the wildcard, fifty one percent in
the alds, and here in the ALCS they're down to
thirty eight percent fastballs. So the Valdi Montgomery they were
just master classes of mixing pitches, keeping the astros off balance.

(22:28):
You are going to see the same thing for Max
schurz Are in Game three. It's not like here's my fastball,
try to hit it. It's hiding those fastballs by moving
the ball around, especially changing speeds. Uh and schures. If
he's right, you're gonna see ninety three, maybe in ninety four.
If he's not, you're gonna see ninety two, so keep
an eye on that. But I just love the game

(22:50):
planning now that's being done by the Rangers against the Astros.
The Astros are going to hit, but they better start
hitting tonight because right now, just the way the Rangers
have game planned against them, it's got Texas's way.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, you had, like you just mentioned in Montgomery and Niovaldi.
I mean, both of them really have really good other pitches.
I love the way Montgomery pitches. I do. I love
like we were talking like earlier in the year when
they when they acquired him. I really thought that was
a wonderful acquisition. I think the guy's been undervalue to
this point. The change up down and the way the

(23:24):
fastball in break the ball in the plate. I mean,
he does so many things well, and he's he's a
he's got I've compared to him basically catch Tommy John
and Jeff's on in spring trainings, and these guys didn't
throw that hard, but they never threw the ball where
you can hit it. I mean I would never was
never permitted by either one of these guys to sit

(23:44):
on the plate at all. It was never over the white,
not even over the black. It was always like a
little bit outside of the black on both sides, and
they had hit the glove all day long. I watched
Montgomery pitch, and he's a better, more physical version of
that because he knows exactly what he's doing and he
knows exactly where he wants to go, and I mean
he's in a groove right now, so he could pitch
under the zone and off the sides, and he knows

(24:05):
how to elevate too when he wants to, so he
is He's been awesome, and then you have all the
the split dangerous, I mean nasty. He got good breaking
ball too, and this guy, they're both highly competitive people
looks like but they know what they're doing. They know
how to pitch canalyizingly off the edges, making a strike
ball kind of a pitch, and they're really good at that.

(24:28):
And that's I think that's that's the secret sauce to
their success. And when you break it down as a
pitching coach or a game planner, it's one thing to
break it down, but it's another thing to have guys
actually be able to go out there and execute. I
know Maddox is very good at the sided guy named
Mike Borzello. We had him on earlier in the season.
Borzy I used to see. I used to say, team's
got Borsello tonight. I sit on this with him on

(24:50):
the bench during any games and we're talking as our
guy's pitching, and I would say, how about this right here?
How about that? Right they either you would agree, they
say no, no, no, this guy is really this hitter
is very good and making adjustment to this pitch in
the situation we're doing this that almost hundred percent of
the time he was right. I like the game planning.
I like game planning by pitching coaches or a guy

(25:10):
like Borzi, and I like that communication with them and
the catchers. And I think Montgomery Valdi, Johnny Lester, Mike,
you've seen it with the Boorzi in the past. The
confidence derived from the communication with an experienced coach like
that to the player, I think weaves into the fabric
of that guy to the point even more confidence than

(25:32):
any other way.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
Now on the Houston side, you've got Christian Javier on
the mound, and boy, he's been throwing the ball really well.
Right now. They call him El Reptile because he's just
so cold blooded on the mound. You won't get any
emotions from him, whether it's things are going greater things
are going poorly. He's made three postseason starts. His last
appearances in the postseason are three starts. He is allowed

(25:56):
in those three starts two hits and no runs combined.
He's the only pitcher in baseball history with three postseason
starts allowing one or no hits. And it's all about
his fastball. It's got some of the craziest induced vertical
vert in the game, which means it basically doesn't drop,

(26:18):
it holds its play at the top of the zone.
Here's a number for you. His last one hundred and
forty fastballs in the postseason zero hits. He's faced sixty
one batters and given up two hits. So I think
they got a good guy in the mound. If you
talk about a must win situation, you're on the road.
This guy's got playoff experience. He's cold blooded. So I

(26:43):
like that for the Houston Astros. But to me, Joe
the key in this game and going forward. He mentioned
it Kyle Tucker. The Astros have to get this guy going.
I mean, he's basically a thirty to thirty player. As
you said, he's really good against left handed pitching, doesn't
bother him at all. But he's been in a funk.
I know it's only eight at backs, but when I

(27:05):
checked the pitches to him, he's been getting pitches. They've
been keeping the ball down away from him but in
the zone, and he's been pulling off them. You've seen
a lot of ground balls to second base pop ups.
And it was interesting at the workout yesterday. I was
talking to Alex Centro on to the Astros, the hitting coach,
and he said, yeah, he's just he's opening up a
little too soon. They looked at the tape and I've

(27:27):
looked at it as well, and his setup actually changed
a little bit. And you know, Joe sometimes as a hitter,
you don't even realize it. He's a closed hitter. You know,
he actually starts closed and finished close. The Astros have
a lot of those, chas McCormick, your Don Alvarez, josel Tuobit,
Mauricio debonnd. They have a lot of old school closed hitters.
Tucker is one of those guys. But in this series,

(27:47):
while opening up too early, he's actually been neutral with
his feet in the box, so they got him back
to more closes set up, and obviously he likes to
keep it closed on the stride as well, and he
should stay on the ball longer. So it's a very
slight mechanic change. We're not talking about a big difference
in the setup of the feet. But Joe, as you know,

(28:07):
the setup, it's kind of like in golf, right he
addressed the ball that starts everything in motion. You have
a bad setup, you're gonna have a bad pass of
the baseball. But either way, I think Kyle Tucker is
the key for the Houston Astros. He's just too good
to still not be a factor in this series.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
No, I really love this guy. First of all, Javier
will come back to Tucker. But Javier, first time I
saw me, dang. I mean watching it from the sidelines,
and we're doing nothing against this guy. Like you said,
you look at the gun. It's ninety two, sometimes ninety three,
but there's crickets. Man, there's not even any hard contact
and correct, I mean the ball stays at the top

(28:42):
of the zone and it doesn't wander at all, and
that really deceptively from the hitter's perspective. You've fed the
force yourself pretty much. Bob Clear used to tell them
you got to reverse your elbows. Friend, elbow comes down,
bat it comes over the top. He got that from
Kenny Myers back in the sixties and the seventies. But
you got to do that to get on top of
that pitch, otherwise you got no chance. Got a decent

(29:03):
break the ball too. And that's why you know, when
I first saw Hobbyer, I thought he's really good against
left He's also because normally, you know, elevated fastball, elevated
fastball in on a LEFTI that cuts a little bit
can be very, very difficult. So I know he was
a little bit of a funk this year, but it
seems like he likes this time of the year. I'm
a big fan. I've only seen this guy pitch well.
So if I'm watching on TV tonight, I promise he's

(29:25):
going to pitch well and the other guy tucker right.
The closed stance. You know the thing about the close
stance that as a hitting coach, I'd be very alert
to that. Sometimes when a guy gets too closed, his
front foot gets in the way of his hands and
his backside, his backside can't come through and then his
hands get blocked and all of a sudden, you're not
getting the bathead out where you want to out front,

(29:47):
and you get kind of a push opposite field swing.
I think most of the time, when a guy really
wants to be closed, you got to get off the
plate and kind of like what you're trying to do
is let the ball get deeper and force it back
over the place somewhat, and then you should your site
should be like for a left hand hitter, his his
right field foul pole should be right center, and for

(30:07):
a right hand hitter, his foul pole should be left center.
In other words, you don't want to really just go
ahead and try to pull the ball. You should. You should.
You're working inside the ball from a closed stance, you're
gonna pull, and that should be probably on something soft
breaking ball strike, that's the one that's going to get
more pull from left center or right center to the pole.
But if it's hard, if it's if it's a hard pitch,

(30:29):
like Tucker should be working from right center to the
left field corner. That would be the optimal situation for him.
I would bet that that's what they've talked about. That's
where he needs to be focused physically and mentally, and
so heads up. I mean, if you see in early
at bat where this guy does stay closed and all
of a sudden the ball gets it, even if it's
it out, it doesn't matter. If he just gets the
browl to the ball and it's right center to left

(30:49):
centered gap, you know he's probably getting back on track.
So these are the things that I used to look at.
I mean, it was this close stance, like you said,
whether it was George Hendrix or Dico danny Ford, there
was a lot of guys back then that would work
for a more close stance as opposed to something more
conventional or will amaze like there's other guys that are

(31:10):
more open. But it's it's all preferential. It's what you
what you do with that front side and how you
get it down, where you are on the plate too
close or or far off the plate, All that stuff matters.
I mean, that's the thing that I look at, the
adjustments I try to make with my guys. First, even
if I didn't like their stance and I thought there
was issues, I would ask them to move in the
batter's box first. Maintain everything you're doing, Just move your

(31:31):
feet around, get off the plate more with your back foot,
get closer to the plate, and all the adjustment should
be made with the backfoot first. That's where the adjustments
are made closer or farther away from the in the
batter's boxes. But your back foot and because what you're
where your backfoot is dictates where your front foot goes.
And some you know you don't want it so close
to the plate your front foot that all of a
sudden you get jammed even more. Backfoot is the is

(31:53):
the real intelligent foot. The front foot's just going on
for the ride. So that's those are the kind of
things that I would really pay attention to. So now
as you told me all this, I'm going to be
curious and I watching what he does. That's where that
first line drive goes for Tucker.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah, at one more point on the Astros facing Surezer
keep this in mind. In his career, Max shrs er,
his walk rate in the postseason is forty two percent
higher than it is in the regular season. In other words,
he just is not going to give in, and he'll
also try to get you to get yourself out. So

(32:26):
and this is these are numbers based on what Max
had a little higher velocity, you know, at ninety five,
So keep an eye on that. You know, the change
up is so good, the slider is so good, they
generally wind up a little bit out of the strike zone.
I think it's being imperative for Houston to not chase.
I mean, that's obvious in any case, but I mean

(32:47):
even to throw up a couple of walks early in
this game and feel good about that, and letting Max
Scherzer know that he may have to come into the
strike zone to get them out, because in the postseason
he does not give in, even more so than in
the regular season. One more point, Joe on this ELCS
Bruce Bocci. You've managed against him in the postseason the

(33:07):
regular season. It's amazing. I'll give you some numbers on
Bruce Bochie what he's been doing here since twenty ten.
His winning percentage in the postseason since twenty ten is seven, seventeen,
forty three and seventeen. He's been in fourteen previous postseason
series and won thirteen to them, taking out twelve different teams.

(33:31):
He does not lose big games late. This really stands
out for me. In his past sixty postseason games. His
bullpen has been beaten three times. His bullpen is sixteen
and three in his past sixty postseason games. That's just
remarkable to me. And I know you're a team that

(33:51):
took him out in twenty sixteen in the NLDS when
he was with the Giants. But if you're waiting for
Bruce Bochi to make a mistake late in the game
and you did beat his bullpen in the clinching game,
it's just not going to happen. The guy he runs
a clean game.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah, you got to. You got to stay ahead of everything.
And that's what we were kind of doing that game
in Game four versus them in San Francisco, was sending
pinchitters up there knowing what he was going to do,
and having a pinchitter to pinch it for the pinch hitter,
which we did with Addis Coughlin to that was it.
We eventually ended up with the contraras at the plate.

(34:30):
But you have to have all.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
This, Can I stop you right there?

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Ya?

Speaker 1 (34:33):
That is a great point. How many guys did you
have on your bench back then in a postseason game?

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Jeez, I don't remember, brother.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
He probably had more than four, though, is what these.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Teams had to yeah, exactly right, right right, because you
can't do all that maneuvering if you.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Don't exactly the other day, I think you alluded to this.
Dusty Baker had the base of loaded. It is and
it probably will be the key point in this entire series.
This is where the American League Pennant probably was decided
fifth any is Nathan Evaldi basis loaded? Nobody out? Yeah,
it was Maldonado do up and Dusty sent the kid,
Yiner Diaz up to pinch hit. I get it. That's

(35:07):
the move, right. You want a better offensive stick in there,
you got to move to baseball. The only problem is,
Dusty's got a four man bench. So you just mentioned
about what you could do where you could hit for
the pinch hitter or make a two man move. Dusty
felt like he couldn't do that that early in the games,
and so in other words, he had John Singleton, a
left handed hitter on his bench. And if you use Singleton,

(35:30):
obviously Diaz has to come into the game and catch.
That's a two man move in the fifth inning. Now
you're down the two players on your bench. It's a
little dicey for a manager. As you know, when you're
only in the fifth inning, Joe, So he sent Diaz
up to the plate. Now, if you've been watching Houston
in the postseason, Diaz hasn't played much. He got to
start against Minnesota. Every bat that he's had has not
been in quality of beat. I mean, he's a young kid.

(35:52):
He's going to be a great hitter. He likes to chase,
there's no question about that, and in this environment his
chase rates up even more of Valdi knew that took
advantage of it. Took him out on a curve ball
that wasn't even close to the strike zone. Not being
able to move the baseball right there, huge point in
the game. I mean, Ivaldi then gets out of the
inning with he gets all two base struck him out
and then got breakman on the ground ball. But they

(36:15):
were limited because like most teams, even with a twenty
six man roster, there's just four players on the bench.
And it'd be interesting if Dusty gets in that situation again,
if he does trust Singleton, because I've seen enough of
these dias at bats to know the game's getting a
little fast on him. So you look at regular season
numbers and you say that man. This kid can hit,

(36:35):
and he will hit. Don't get me wrong. This kid
guy's gonna be a really good catcher, really good hitter.
But in this environment you may have to trust the
left handed hitter, even though Singleton hasn't played for a
couple of weeks now. So I like what you're saying
about hitting for your hitter and the two man moves
sometimes you make. But with a four man bench man,
it's tough to do.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
It is tough to do. But again, you have to
understand that that happened in the fifth any correct, you're
saying fifth Inny, Yes, so that but that could be
the seminal moment. You can't know. There's no guarantee you're
gonna be set up in a latter part of the game,
whereas you're gonna want at that particular juncture. Again, Plus
you know what's if you were to hit from Aldonado period,

(37:15):
this the other catcher, he's gonna have to hit later
in the game too, So there's there's like you said,
there's limited things to do with But when you get
to that seminal moment, man, sometimes you got to just
throw caution to the wind and and go ahead to
the left end and put your last, your last player
catcher in that particular spot, knowing that you're gonna have

(37:36):
to let him hit in the latter part of the
game against uh, you know the better relief pictures of
the Texas Rangers.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Right, So, what what does make Bruce Bochi so good?
Why why is he thrown up win after winning the postseason?

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Well, like again, it's it's primarily I think one thing
he doesn't he doesn't panic. I mean, the guy's always
under control. I think the teams that he's had have
had a nice balance of right and left handed relief pitchers.
I know that for sure. When we worked against them
with the Giants and going into those games, I knew

(38:08):
I know what Boach would do. So like, we even
beat him. Was it fifteen or was it sixteen a camera, Well,
we beat him a four game series in Chicago. I
think it was fifteen. I remember going to the ballpark
in fifteen and I was jacked up because I just
knew this was the series that was going to put
us over the top. We beat him four in a row.
We beat him four games, four game series in Chicago.

(38:32):
But I knew for me as a manager, I had
to be in front of him all the time. He's fearless,
he's going to take chances, but there's a predictability because
he's going to go left right, and like you're saying,
you have to have the remedy when he does that,
and that would be a bench and you have to
be willing to do different things with him. That was

(38:53):
a nationally game then too. There's a lot of double
switching going on. There's a lot of maneuvering going on
that we don't have to deal with anymore. But I
thought was really fascinating And if anything got me tired
after a good old fashion National League game would be
all that, because you have to keep track of so
many more different things, and you have to get people
involved and pictures are moving around, and that's part of
it too. That's missing right now. That had been part

(39:15):
of it. Now it's just where's the pitture is? He's
not even hitting right now, it's going to go left, right, left, whatever.
It's a different there's it's different. I think there's he
was he's consistent. The guys that he puts in there
knows that he trusts them. He's going to give them
opportunity he's I think that's a big part of it,
the consistency with which he deals with these people. But

(39:36):
from the other side, just be prepared, man. You got
to work this out in advance of the game. You
got to know what he might do. And quite frankly,
that situation in Game four in San Francisco, I had that.
I had that in my head before that ever occurred.
As we started getting back in that game, you knew
what he was going to do with the with the
bullpen that he had had, and we just had to
have the right guys lined up and ready to go
off the bench.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Cool stuff. Hey, we got to talk about the NLCS.
Can the Arizona Diamondbacks get back into their series against
the red hot Philadelphia Phillies. We'll answer that question right
after this. Hey, Joe. We started this podcast by talking

(40:20):
about the fact that we have not yet had a
postseason series that's gone the full distance, full number of
games here. It was interesting to see, actually though the
ratings for Game one of the ALCS were actually the
best Game one ALCS ratings since twenty fifteen. I was
pretty interesting to see in all Texas affair, and this

(40:41):
may be part of it. First of all, I think
the lead in was NFL football. I think that always helps.
But in terms of the market size of Nielsen television audiences,
Dallas is number five and Houston is number seven. So
you have two of the top seven television markets playing
against one another. And if you want to throw in
San Antonio and Austin, they're in the top thirty five.

(41:04):
For the top thirty five Nielsen television markets are in
the state of Texas. It's a little bit of TV
trivia for you there, Joe.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Well, you're playing in the Texas League. I managed in
the Texas League twice, from Midland to Baumont, from Midlandale Passo,
from Midland to San Antonio.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, Midland is not in the top thirty five Nielsen
television markets.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Just a threat, but it's George bush Is from there,
and of course Randy Vallardi and his dad was the
groundskeeper at the feel we played on. But I'll tell
you what, that's all I could think this Texas League. Man,
you're riding the bus. You're riding the bus between Dallas
and Houston right now. I got so many great memories
of that place. Tough ones, though, we got our butts
kicked but it was a tough league. Man. It was

(41:46):
a tough league to be. You had to be a
man to play in that league. Between the buses and
the competition, it was tremendous. So you're getting the latter
day version of the Texas League right now.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Let me tell you the bus ride that we took
from Houston to Dallas, I felt like I was back
in the Texas League. I mean this thing. When I
got off the bus. It was one of those like
shuttle buses you'd take in the airport to go to
the parking lot. It really was. I felt like I
was in the back of a pickup truck on an
unpaved road. When I actually got out of the thing

(42:17):
and got my feet on the ground, it felt like
if you've been out at sea for four hours and
you finally step on solid ground. I mean, and I
had to write my story with my computer on my
lap and Joe, I don't do motion sickness. Well, it
almost got really ugly on the back of that bus.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
That's that's inappropriate. Man. You guys either a regular coach
or just got a couple of big black cars to
drive you up there, or just rentals that you drove yourself.
I mean, yeah, I get that. That's what was it
three and a half four hours?

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah, yeah, well we stopped halfway a four hour trip.
We stopped the Buffalo, Texas by the way, if anybody
knows there is such a place, there actually is.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
I love their wings. I love their wings.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
Yeah, we did not go to the halfway house bar
and karaoke grill. We just fueled up and got ourselves
back in the road. But yeah, not going back that way.
So so Derek Jeter drove himself. So maybe I'll take
hitch a ride with Derek.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Well he took a jet, but he took a jeep
wagon here, of course he did.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Of course, that's right.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Hey.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Speaking of television, the Philadelphia Phillies are great TV, especially
when they're home. I mean, these guys play with such energy.
The crowd is just unbelievable. And now that it's like
they have a contest among each other to see who
can come up with the best sign, most creative sign,
I mean it's really really cool. I mean it just

(43:33):
jumps off the screen at you. And when you watch
a Phillies game at Citizens Bank Park, and the task
was just enormous for Arizona to go in there, even
with their two best pictures, they come out of there
zero and two. Philly. Just I mean that lineup right now, Joe,
there's just it's just we talk about game planning. You
can come up with a game plan against that lineup,

(43:53):
it still can beat you. So is there a way
for Arizona to get back into the series going back home?

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Well, they have to score. I mean, they have to
put points on the board. They got to think got
a CounterPunch. I mean, I know that game ended up
at ten zero yesterday, but it was at three to
nothing for a while. And they get the first game
where they get three runs total and it really didn't
mount any offensive attack. They got to get more offensive
and I don't know what this splits our numbers home
and road. And I know sometimes they're nebulous, but they

(44:24):
may see the ball better who knows him. Plus, like
you saying this, the white noise of Philadelphia is not
going to be there, and they're actually gonna get some people
on their side. But they got to score points. And listen,
I'm all about pitching, absolutely, but it's going to be
very difficult right now to hold down that Philly lineup combination.
They're all hot. I mean, they're just all hot right now,
and they're riding away. They're you know, hanging ten right now.

(44:47):
There's nobody that they don't feel like they can beat.
They feel like they can beat anybody. Anybody cy Young
himself has no chance against them. So that's where they're
at mentally. So offensively, the Diamondbacks, that's where they really
have to come up. I don't know if the diamond
I mean, the Diamondback pitching is fine, but at this point,
the Phillies are still going to come out and do

(45:07):
their thing like you've seen with or without the crop.
So the Diamondbacks have to pick it up. You got
to get some points up there. Points early kind of
put some at least a seed of doubt in Phillies
head regarding that they could be beaten by this group.
If they don't do that at all, there's there's zero
chance it's going to go for zero.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
I'm with you, I definitely agree with you. It's not
normally you go in and say, hey, you got to
score points. Usually it's pitching and defense you win from there.
But I again, I think that offense is too hot
right now they've got it all rolling, and it's such
a deep lineup. I mean Castillano is kind of buried there.
The back half of the lineup is like a middle
of the order hitter. By the way, you had Castillo's

(45:48):
with the Cubs. You know, I've seen Kevin Long make
so many great adjustments with hitters. He's another one. By
the way, they spend a lot of time in the offseason.
Not that he couldn't hit before. I mean, Nick is
an extra base machine, always has been. But it looks
to me Joe like just the angle of his back
getting the ball is even better now. And he is
a guy I must say he loves the postseason environment.

(46:12):
I think it allows him to lock in mentally more
so than the regular season. And I know you hear
that phrase, Hey, some guys step up quote unquote in
the postseason. I'm not sure what that means, but I
do know that in the case of some players, the
atmosphere of the postseason does bring out the best in them.
As you know, the regular season, one hundred and sixty

(46:32):
two games, it can be literally a routine, and that's
not the case for Nick and the postseason. I know
he talked about that last year he made some great
defensive plays. He's not known for it, and he talked
about just his attention and his focus being razor sharp
in the postseason atmosphere. So listen, we know it's a
great lineup, but with Castiano swinging like this, man, it's

(46:55):
there's no letup. And that's why I agree with you.
You're probably gonna have to score five runs a nights
take this Philly team down.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yeah. Nicky's really interesting young man. When you speak with him,
he stone faces you. Man, He's got these really piercing
eyes and like you know, normally when you talk to somebody,
you'll see some kind of emotion on their face. They
might smile a little bit, yes, they they might not, yes,
something like that. But Nikki Doesn'tnicky just stands there. And

(47:22):
I love that about it because I always what's he thinking.
He come up to me before every game, every game
that we work together, come up to me by the
end of the dugout where I stood before the game,
might shakes my hand and says happy Opening Day. He
did that every time. You know, he has this like
quiet enthusiasm, this this fire within. So I'm really pleased

(47:44):
for his success. Liked him a lot, which you're talking about.
I think the other night against I can't remember who
it was, he turned around one hundred mile an hour
elevated fastball, I mean kilted to left center, and uh,
that would be something he wouldn't do in the pass
that elevated fastball like that because of the angle of
his bat, Like you're talking about, I who was it?

Speaker 1 (48:04):
He just he just absolutely it was Spencer Strider, wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
It might have been, Yeah, it was exactly That's who
it was. And the thing about Nikky weirdly, and I
don't know why, but he's the line gap gap line.
I mean, this guy covers. He rarely hits balls at outfielders.
It's always to their right or left, and it's normally
hit hard. When he gets hot, man, he gets scorching hot.

(48:29):
And a part of it is confidence, and part of
it is, like you're talking about bad angle, it's just
the way the bat presents he'll like hook it down
the line or he just it's in a gap. It's
he's a he's a different kind of an approach to
the plate. I think the difference I'm seeing a little bit.
He's not chasing as much. I think that that really
is the one thing that I always wanted to see

(48:49):
him do is the stuff that bad Slider. Except as walks,
he's one of He's a hitter. And I've heard Trey
Turner talk about it in regards to their success too,
and I think that's there's some truth to it. They're
not up there analytically trying to just take walks. He's
the term accept your walk. Pittard doesn't want to three
strike except your walk. But these guys go up there
wanting to hit. Nicky's one of them two, so that's it.

(49:13):
I like what he's doing. I'm very happy for his success.
I like this guy a lot.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
And last thing on that series, Bryce Harper Man you
talk about good TV. I mean he's a superstar player
type a personality, extrovert, baseball rat, whatever you want to
call it, and man, it shows every step of the way.
I think it's always been the case with Bryce. He's
always played the game hard. Early in his career. You know,

(49:36):
there's some people who criticize Bryce Harper and didn't like
the way he played the game, and I would always
come back like, how do you not like this guy?
He plays the game hard, like really hard. Some people said,
actually he played too hard, running into walls in the outfield.
If you ask him anything about baseball history, man, he's
going to give you an answer. I mean, he knows
the history of this game, I think better than any

(49:57):
active player. He's just so passionate about the game of baseball.
He's a passionate leader. He he loves responsibility. He signed
for thirteen years with Philly and said, I don't want
an out and opt out in my contract. I want
to put down roots and be in one place. Because
he was a hired gun for listen since he was

(50:18):
thirteen years old. Travel teams would put him on a
plane to go playing a tournament for them, and then
next week he's playing for somebody else. The minute he
started playing the big leagues at nineteen with Washington, the
question was where's he gonna play next? And everybody thought
it was going to be the Yankees because they have
the most money and he had a poster Mickey Mantle
on their wall. Well, when he was a free agent,

(50:39):
the Yankee said, we don't need Bryce Harper. We have
six outfielders, including guys like Clint Fraser and Miguel had
duhar and we don't think he can play first base.
How did that breakdown work out for the New York Yankees.
They also said he didn't think he could play first base.
Here he's playing first base in the NLCS. Don't underestimate
this guy. I mean, he's Joe. I know you famously

(51:01):
took him off the board the one year by just
walking and walking and walking. I don't think he can
do that in this Philadelphia lineup. There's just too much
thunder behind them. Back then it was Ryan Zimmerman who
was hitting a lot of ground balls, wasn't quite right.
But yeah, you have to account for Bryce Harper all
the time. And yeah, the bigger moments bring out the
best in this guy. And like I said, in the

(51:22):
Game of Baseball, I know show Hay is just amazing
and there's nobody like him, never has been, never will.
But in terms of just pure TV, the emotion delivering
a big moment, it's Reggie Jackson. There's nobody better. There's
no better TV in baseball today than Bryce Harper.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Well, and I can't agree. I'm not discreen on any
of that. And one thing I really liked, and I
don't know that you know, everybody's noticing. But I love
the way these guys hit home runs, run around the bases,
and then just read each other at the dugout. It's
so cool to watch it. So he hit that bomb

(51:59):
the right center, man, he just he put the bat
pretty much right down right around the basis be a
big deal. But I think that's part of their allure,
and especially to that city that's not a city of backflips.
I don't think that's a city that really likes that
kind of an attitude. And I hope, I hope, you know,
that kind of stuff becomes more in vogue again, where

(52:19):
you act like you've done that before, you're gonna do
it again. I love that about him, and I love
that about them the retrospectively too. When you look at
Bryce Harper, he's got that really stern look about him,
that really square John look about him, and I think
there's like almost like an assuming unapproachability about him. He's
very approachable, he's easy to engage with, but the look

(52:40):
itself gives you a different vibe immediately, and I think
people are finding that out to be totally different. I
sat in front of him on a bus with his
parents going in an all star situation a couple of
years ago, and that's really pretty much the first time
I engaged in conversation. I mean, KB, Chris Bryant, we
always buddies, and KB was very is always affable. So

(53:01):
I think I think that's the look too, man. You
look kind of like people didn't quite understand him at
the beginning. Now they understand it. It is a focus,
it is a competitive nature. It's a fire, it's a burn,
it's NFL good, it's all that kind of stuff. So
I'm really happy for success. Like I said, I even
with that one conversation with him and his parents. He

(53:22):
told me everything. And it's not going away, folks, It's
not going away. And last point, I hate the comment
when somebody makes the assumption that somebody can't do something
or they can't make an adjustment to do something without
ever even trying, without even knowing the person. When I
hear those comments and meetings, I cringe inwardly. It don't know,

(53:43):
and you don't know. When you talk about a motivated
athlete like this, the one that truly is a level
five guy, all he wants to do is win. Be
careful what you say because guys like this are going
to prove you wrong all the time.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Well said, And that's a great observation. By the way,
on the Phillies when they hit home runs, now that
you brought that up, it makes me think like they
can't wait to sell celebrate with each other. Right, it's
about It's not about me, it's about us, and it's
a mass celebration. It's not a celebration of the guy
who hit the home run. Until you brought that up,

(54:15):
I really hadn't thought about that, but now that I
do think about it, Yeah, it's it's like a college
team that it really is for the good of the team,
not for showcasing one's own ability. And they literally can't
wait to get back to home late to share it
with their Teammate's very cool observation.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Yeah, I mean, everybody's trying to do themselves right now
in celebrations. I love the Philly way, and again I
think it speaks to the city.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Well, we'll see if Arizona and Houston can get back
into these series and give us more playoff baseball. We're
a little short on postseason games this year, but the
storylines are great. Both Texas and Philadelphia right now, are
just playing super clean baseball. They've got momentum going. Can
they keep it up? We'll find out. We'll get back

(55:02):
to you as these series go deeper. So Joe has
really been fascinating listening to your take on the LCS here,
and you're kind of like my closer here. I go
to you when I need a way to close out
the game. I know it's the balls in good hands.
So take us out here, finish us off. What do
you got?

Speaker 2 (55:20):
I had some too today and I'm just been debating
and again it's Jermaine and I love it all. Maybe
hey go with to today, may I I mean, just
just because I think they're kind of dovetail. I mean
when comes from Oscar Wilde, and this is something that
I really kind of kind of beat home to myself
for years. Whenever you become uncertain and sure of yourself,

(55:41):
you have a little bit of doubt working and you
look at everybody else. There is like a little sense
of I don't know the right word is jealousy, but
just I just like to be more like that. But
Oscar wild said, be yourself. Everyone else has already taken.
And again you look at the Afhillies. That's a perfect
example of them being themselves. And the other one comes
from E. B. White, who wrote Charlotte's Web. Always be

(56:04):
on the lookout for the presence of wonder. I'm going
to stick with. I love that. I've never read that before.
I never heard that before. But the idea, it's like
first time I is first time passion. It's great that
you could have that feeling of wonder when you observe
something when you're sixty nine or how old you are

(56:24):
right now, and or even if you're twenty three whatever,
just never lose that sense of wonder. And when you're
watching performances like this right now, whether it's Swarvezley in
the game off, whether it's Harper playing to the crowd
and coming through in big moments where matures are coming
back on a very short d el Stan I else did.

(56:44):
So I love that. So therever always been a lookout
for the presence of wonder. But again, realize everyone else
has taken so please be yourself. I really dig that.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Yeah, I like that point about wonder. It really is
around us. You have to just stop and notice it
and be attuned to it. And I know sometimes it
gets hard, but yeah, there's a lot of wonder in
the postseason. And Joe, that was an excellent job. I'm
glad you brought up two of those. That's the equivalent
of a six out save right there, closing the game
going two winnings, not one.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Six house, not easy.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Another guy who steps up in the postseason. Joe Madden.
Thanks Joe, Thanks Tommy, appreciate it, buddy. The Book of
Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

(57:37):
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