September 8, 2025 • 7 mins
Police Minister Mark Mitchell says officers faced a difficult and complex situation bringing an end to Tom Phillips's time on the run.
He was shot dead by Police in the early hours of yesterday on a rural Waikato road following a burglary.
An injured officer, who was shot multiple times, remains in Waikato Hospital and is facing a number of surgeries.
One of his three children was with Phillips, the remaining two were found yesterday afternoon at a campsite around two kilometres from where Phillips died.
Mitchell told Mike Hosking it's almost the worst-case scenario for Police.
He says that although it was an absolute tragedy, safely recovering the three children is a good thing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Back to the Phillips case. Phillip's dead, of course, the
officer remains in the hospital, the children recovered. So what
happens now. Mark Mitchell's the police minister and as well
as Mark, good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning, Mike.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
So your thoughts on yesterday and more broadly, your thoughts
on the last four years.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, I mean, obviously an awful situation to everyone involved.
We've got a police officer that was critically injured thankfully
has come through a surgeries yesterday quite well. Myself and
the Commissioner are driving down there shortly to go him
and his family. You know, I think everyone could see, Mike,
just how difficult the situation was for police to deal with.
(00:36):
It's almost the worst case scenario when you've got a
father with three children deep in the bush with firearms,
high powered firearms, unpredictable and likely to use them. And
so you know, in some ways, although it was an
absolute tragedy yesterday, obviously, recovering the children and having them
now safely and I rang a Tomrick and extended family here,
(01:00):
you know, is a good thing.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Did it need to go as long as it did?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Well, like I said, it was you look at the
complexity of the situation they're dealing with. I've been the
policemanister now for over eighteen months. I've spoken with and
visited several of the officers that have been on prolonged operations,
that have been investigating and have been working hard to
try and recover those children safely, and they were confronted
with almost an impossible situation. We've got a very unpredictable,
(01:27):
you know, father with high powered firearms, likely to use them,
and they don't want to create a tragedy. And that
is all of us. I think every key we would fear,
certainly my fear as the minister, you know, losing those children.
You know, the focus was always on the safe recovery
of the children and it was just a very very
(01:47):
difficult situation for them to deal with. They three resources
at it. They were relentless in the way that they
approached it and trying to recover them, but always they
understood that it was a very dangerous situation to go
into and it was and they were going to try
and avoid it all costs, putting those children in harm's way.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Did you have intel on that, Did you have a
genuine knowledge based belief that he was capable of harming
his own children.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well, I don't know about I can't answer that I
was in the detail in terms of the riskst analysis
that would have been done around him and whether or
not he was capable of harming his own children. I
do know this that he is the suspect for some
serious violent offending over the period that he's had them,
and he's included those children in that offending, and no
responsible father would ever put their children in harm's way,
(02:34):
and he did that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
The because what I'm trying to suppose her to a
degree doesn't really matter now. But what I'm trying to
work out is, did you guys or did the police
know ish where he was and if they'd worked a
bit harder they could have found him sooner or was
that not really the emphasis? The emphasis was we don't
want the kids harnded.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
The emphasis was we don't want the kids armed. And so,
you know, the police of very good, they're very efficient,
they've got lots of tools, they've got very deep capability,
they can find people. But it's a big complicating factor
when you've got young children in a situation with high
powered firearms and a very unpredictable father and not knowing
you know, exactly how he's going to react and respond.
(03:16):
That was definitely my fears as police minister, without a doubt,
averting a tragedy. Unfortunately, mister Phillips has been killed. He's
been killed because he used he showed that he would
use those firearms and we now have a police officer
that's critically injured line in the hospital because you know,
Phillips tried to kill him.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Speaking of that, I asked Chambers, that's the same question
that I'm interested in your view. Why does an officer
go out in remote New Zealand in these specific circumstances
knowing that a burglary chances are it's you know who.
Why is he out there by himself with backup coming?
I know, but he was still out there by himself.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Well, that is operational. I do leave the commissioner to
speak with that. But why do police officers take risks?
Because because they take their jobs very seriously and they're
willing to themselves at risk to protect the communities that
they serve. And I'm extremely proud of them. The officers
that responded to that, in my view, are very courageous
and the way that they dealt with it, you know,
(04:13):
And that is the nature of policing. And I get
to see and hear about tens of thousands of positive
actions that our police officers take every week in the
service of the protection of the communities that they serve.
So you know, from what I understand talking with the commissioner,
there were more than there was more than one police
officer there, and obviously you can see that there was
a very firm, direct and immediate response from police in
(04:36):
terms of dealing with that threat against the officer that
had already been shot.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
The Obviously there are questions out of all of this,
and there are debriefs, and I get all of that,
But beyond the standard, does this present a bunch of
unusual questions that might provide some unusual answers and the
police need to be looking at the way they do things.
Or are you comfortable as you sit here talking to
me this morning that things have gone as well as
they could have.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I'm very comfortable since I've become police Minister, that they
have tried everything and they've done all that they could
to try and recover those children safely. Like any good organization,
the police are constantly looking for improvement. They will review
everything that's happened. There will be significant after action reviews.
I know how the police operate. Of course, there's some
inquiries that are immediately spark There'll be an internal police inquiry,
(05:21):
there'll be an IBC inquiry, and it's a coroner's case
as well. But am I comfortable that the police have
absolutely done everything that they could that they have made
sure that at the center of everything that they've done,
in the decisions that they've made, have put the children
in their safety at the heart of that. And I
think we all saw in the last twenty four hours
(05:42):
it all highlighted just how difficult the situation was for
police to manage.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I don't know if I'm drawing too many dot joining
too many dots here, but you happen to be in
Melbourne with Chambers at the funeral of a couple of
slain police officers for yet another nutter that's still looking
for in Victoria. Is there's nothing going on here where
we are seeing more and more men with guns going
rogue and it's a thing.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So that's something that we'll be to I have a
Police Council meeting in Canberra early next month that's something
that's on the agenda to discuss. Obviously, the situation in
Victoria is tragic. We're at both the Commission and I
are at the service of Neil Thompson, a thirty nine
year veteran that was literally days away from from retiring
(06:28):
and was killed by a person that caused himself a
sovereign citizen. So you know, there's still a large police
operation of man hunt underway there to try and find him.
But you know, the issue that you raised is something
that we'll be talking about further, without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Do you have a view on the community, because when
there's the local community here, I'm talking about the number
of people who defended this guy, and men in the
country go bush with guns and they take their kids
and that's just life. And we in the city don't
have a clue what's going on. And that's still that
view still pervades. Is that abnormal?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, you and I fathers and I don't think that
you or I would take our children away from their
broader support networks, away from their friends, family, put them
and take them out with serious violent offending, put them
at harms and harm's way, you know, and shoot police officers.
So you know, I don't really understand why people are
(07:21):
holding this guy up as a as a pillar of
society and someone that should be admired. A quick complete opposite.
He's shot one of our police officers. Probably very very
lucky that police officer alive and that police officers out
there putting himself in harm's way to protect the community
that he serves.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
All right, mate, I'll let you get on with you day.
Appreciate it pretty much. Make Machure police minister with us
this morning.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
For more from the Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks they'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Back to the Phillips case. Phillip's dead, of course, the
officer remains in the hospital, the children recovered. So what
happens now. Mark Mitchell's the police minister and as well
as Mark, good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning, Mike.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
So your thoughts on yesterday and more broadly, your thoughts
on the last four years.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, I mean, obviously an awful situation to everyone involved.
We've got a police officer that was critically injured thankfully
has come through a surgeries yesterday quite well. Myself and
the Commissioner are driving down there shortly to go him
and his family. You know, I think everyone could see, Mike,
just how difficult the situation was for police to deal with.
(00:36):
It's almost the worst case scenario when you've got a
father with three children deep in the bush with firearms,
high powered firearms, unpredictable and likely to use them. And
so you know, in some ways, although it was an
absolute tragedy yesterday, obviously, recovering the children and having them
now safely and I rang a Tomrick and extended family here,
(01:00):
you know, is a good thing.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Did it need to go as long as it did?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Well, like I said, it was you look at the
complexity of the situation they're dealing with. I've been the
policemanister now for over eighteen months. I've spoken with and
visited several of the officers that have been on prolonged operations,
that have been investigating and have been working hard to
try and recover those children safely, and they were confronted
with almost an impossible situation. We've got a very unpredictable,
(01:27):
you know, father with high powered firearms, likely to use them,
and they don't want to create a tragedy. And that
is all of us. I think every key we would fear,
certainly my fear as the minister, you know, losing those children.
You know, the focus was always on the safe recovery
of the children and it was just a very very
(01:47):
difficult situation for them to deal with. They three resources
at it. They were relentless in the way that they
approached it and trying to recover them, but always they
understood that it was a very dangerous situation to go
into and it was and they were going to try
and avoid it all costs, putting those children in harm's way.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Did you have intel on that, Did you have a
genuine knowledge based belief that he was capable of harming
his own children.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well, I don't know about I can't answer that I
was in the detail in terms of the riskst analysis
that would have been done around him and whether or
not he was capable of harming his own children. I
do know this that he is the suspect for some
serious violent offending over the period that he's had them,
and he's included those children in that offending, and no
responsible father would ever put their children in harm's way,
(02:34):
and he did that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
The because what I'm trying to suppose her to a
degree doesn't really matter now. But what I'm trying to
work out is, did you guys or did the police
know ish where he was and if they'd worked a
bit harder they could have found him sooner or was
that not really the emphasis? The emphasis was we don't
want the kids harnded.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
The emphasis was we don't want the kids armed. And so,
you know, the police of very good, they're very efficient,
they've got lots of tools, they've got very deep capability,
they can find people. But it's a big complicating factor
when you've got young children in a situation with high
powered firearms and a very unpredictable father and not knowing
you know, exactly how he's going to react and respond.
(03:16):
That was definitely my fears as police minister, without a doubt,
averting a tragedy. Unfortunately, mister Phillips has been killed. He's
been killed because he used he showed that he would
use those firearms and we now have a police officer
that's critically injured line in the hospital because you know,
Phillips tried to kill him.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Speaking of that, I asked Chambers, that's the same question
that I'm interested in your view. Why does an officer
go out in remote New Zealand in these specific circumstances
knowing that a burglary chances are it's you know who.
Why is he out there by himself with backup coming?
I know, but he was still out there by himself.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Well, that is operational. I do leave the commissioner to
speak with that. But why do police officers take risks?
Because because they take their jobs very seriously and they're
willing to themselves at risk to protect the communities that
they serve. And I'm extremely proud of them. The officers
that responded to that, in my view, are very courageous
and the way that they dealt with it, you know,
(04:13):
And that is the nature of policing. And I get
to see and hear about tens of thousands of positive
actions that our police officers take every week in the
service of the protection of the communities that they serve.
So you know, from what I understand talking with the commissioner,
there were more than there was more than one police
officer there, and obviously you can see that there was
a very firm, direct and immediate response from police in
(04:36):
terms of dealing with that threat against the officer that
had already been shot.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
The Obviously there are questions out of all of this,
and there are debriefs, and I get all of that,
But beyond the standard, does this present a bunch of
unusual questions that might provide some unusual answers and the
police need to be looking at the way they do things.
Or are you comfortable as you sit here talking to
me this morning that things have gone as well as
they could have.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I'm very comfortable since I've become police Minister, that they
have tried everything and they've done all that they could
to try and recover those children safely. Like any good organization,
the police are constantly looking for improvement. They will review
everything that's happened. There will be significant after action reviews.
I know how the police operate. Of course, there's some
inquiries that are immediately spark There'll be an internal police inquiry,
(05:21):
there'll be an IBC inquiry, and it's a coroner's case
as well. But am I comfortable that the police have
absolutely done everything that they could that they have made
sure that at the center of everything that they've done,
in the decisions that they've made, have put the children
in their safety at the heart of that. And I
think we all saw in the last twenty four hours
(05:42):
it all highlighted just how difficult the situation was for
police to manage.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I don't know if I'm drawing too many dot joining
too many dots here, but you happen to be in
Melbourne with Chambers at the funeral of a couple of
slain police officers for yet another nutter that's still looking
for in Victoria. Is there's nothing going on here where
we are seeing more and more men with guns going
rogue and it's a thing.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So that's something that we'll be to I have a
Police Council meeting in Canberra early next month that's something
that's on the agenda to discuss. Obviously, the situation in
Victoria is tragic. We're at both the Commission and I
are at the service of Neil Thompson, a thirty nine
year veteran that was literally days away from from retiring
(06:28):
and was killed by a person that caused himself a
sovereign citizen. So you know, there's still a large police
operation of man hunt underway there to try and find him.
But you know, the issue that you raised is something
that we'll be talking about further, without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Do you have a view on the community, because when
there's the local community here, I'm talking about the number
of people who defended this guy, and men in the
country go bush with guns and they take their kids
and that's just life. And we in the city don't
have a clue what's going on. And that's still that
view still pervades. Is that abnormal?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, you and I fathers and I don't think that
you or I would take our children away from their
broader support networks, away from their friends, family, put them
and take them out with serious violent offending, put them
at harms and harm's way, you know, and shoot police officers.
So you know, I don't really understand why people are
(07:21):
holding this guy up as a as a pillar of
society and someone that should be admired. A quick complete opposite.
He's shot one of our police officers. Probably very very
lucky that police officer alive and that police officers out
there putting himself in harm's way to protect the community
that he serves.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
All right, mate, I'll let you get on with you day.
Appreciate it pretty much. Make Machure police minister with us
this morning.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
For more from the Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks they'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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