David Seymour: Deputy Prime Minister on Pharmac's savings to increase medicine access and New Zealand's stance on Palestine

David Seymour believes a refresh of Pharmac's operations is benefiting New Zealanders. 

Its latest funding proposal includes five new medicines for breast cancer, multiple sclerosis, eye conditions, and lung cancer. 

The Associate Health Minister says a board and leadership change has worked well, and the next step is ensuring strong budget bids. 

Seymour told Mike Hosking that instead of Pharmac working within a set allocation, it will now go to the Finance Minister each year for funding. 

When it comes to recognising Palestine, David Seymour appears to be backing a more cautious approach to the thorny question. 

Foreign Minister Winston Peters is set to announce our decision at the UN General Assembly in New York on Saturday.  

Doing so would mean our country joins the likes of Australia, the UK, and France.  

Seymour told Hosking he has his own opinion on the matter but will support any Government position.  

He suggests some countries are jumping up and down for political theatre, but New Zealand will consider all the facts.  

LISTEN ABOVE 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We've got some more funding for new medicines from Farmac,

(00:02):
everything for multiple sclerosis, breast cancer, rine conditions, lung cancer.
Potentially if seventeen hundred of US in year one rises
to four thousand DISH by a year five. David Seymour
is of course the Associate Minister of Health but in
charge of FARMAK and is with us. Very good morning,
Good morning mate. Broadly speaking, can we say the turnaround
of that particular agency has worked? It is working.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
We've made a lot of changes. We have changed out
a lot of the board. Paula Bennett's done a great
job as the chair. We have a new chief executive
who just started last week. That's Natalie McMurtry. We did
a huge global search. She's come out of the Canadian
province of Alberta. We've done a big culture review which

(00:46):
has revealed a lot of problems. And the next step
is to make sure that we are doing really good
budget bids, so that instead of Farmac taking the money
it has and trying to negotiate within it, we're actually
going to the Minister of Finance each year and saying, look,
we think if we funded a few more drugs we

(01:07):
would be able to save the taxpayer money in other areas,
and not to say this will happen, but you look
at some of these drugs like a zempic. If we
can cut down obesity, that can save huge amounts of
money on everything from orthopedic surgery to kidney dialysis. So
it's a work in progress, but I'm really proud of

(01:28):
the way that Farmac has responded so far, and a
lot of people are saying that it's a different organization
from eighteen months.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Let me come back to the gop ones. In just
a couple of moments you mentioned the new CEO. The
only reason become interested in this is out of yesterday's
Reserve Bank announcement, So your global search does that. I'm
just hopeful, that's all. There are people in the world
who look at New Zealand and still see it as
a good landing spot and they can contribute something positive.
Was that fair to say?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah? Absolutely, And without going into too much detail or
being critical of our Canadian friends, I've sat down with
Natalie talked about how the job will work for her
here in New Zealand, how it's worked for her in
the past, and I think that she's going to really
be pleased to work in the Farmac environment. No one's

(02:18):
denying it had problems. That's why I's keen to take
on the job. But you know, our job is to
make farm Ac the world leading medical technology assessa. And
there'll be more announcements about that just next week. So yeah,
I think we can make it a very attractive place.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Kiwis can fly good. You talk about, you know, the
big picture on gpl ones and stuff like that. How
much of what this announcement about is simply savings. You
go do a deal with somebody and make it a
sharper deal there for instead of spending fifty bucks, you
spend thirty five. Take the fifteen, spend it elsewhere.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
That's exactly what's happening, and it's routine. I'm not here
to jump up and down and take the credit for it,
but I am here to praise the people do it,
because New Zealand would have a lot fewer problems if
a few more people just did their job. That's what
these people at Farmac do every year. They negotiate really hard.
They get better deals. If things come off patent, they say, look,

(03:14):
we need a better deal now. If there's an alternative
substitute that's cheaper. Sometimes they can negotiate that they're now
using the money that they've saved recently to negotiate for
five new drugs that are going to help with everything
from multiple sclerosis to run cancer, and that I think
is just a good example of people doing the job.

(03:35):
So if anyone in FARMAC listens to ZBB, I'm sure
they do, then you know, thank you. People do appreciate
what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
The gpl one thing. So, having followed your rationale since
you got to government, which is the idea that if
you can spend money now and in the long term
do something profound by way of saving surely the gpl
one thing is the best global example at the moment.
Seems to me to be transformational.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, it's very exciting what's happening with those drugs, and
I don't want to start predicting a particular drug because
the independence of FARMAC remains absolutely key. What we're trying
to do is find a way that FARMAC can make
a budget bid to the Minister of Finance and say
we will save money if you give us more, but

(04:25):
we're not going to tell you exactly which drugs because
if they said, yeah, we'll fund a zempic and that's
going to save you on hip operations. Then you get
back to the Minister of Finance of the day effectively
choosing drugs. And then you get campaigns and it's a
popularity contest and it's supposed to be about medicine and science.
So we're finding a way to do rigorous but blind

(04:46):
budget bids and I think we're just about there, so
we'll be looking to make such a bid in the
budget this year.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
A couple of things while I've got you willis yesterday,
as part of that boardroom thing with a Herald said
that if they'd been there by themselves, Nationals been there
by themselves, they would have focused less on Maori issues.
She cites you in New Zealand first as being the
issue around that. What do you say to that, Well, first.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Of all, I'm sure that's true. We have driven the
agenda for New Zealand to be treated with New Zealanders,
to be treated with equal dignity, regardless of their background.
I think it's critical that we do that because if
I was to say, look, you know what is one
of the biggest reasons New Zealand's in a funk. It's
because we're a nation of pioneers. We all moved out

(05:30):
here for a better life, and yet instead of focusing
on what binds us together, we spend far too much
time bickering about relatively minor superficial differences. And we can't
be set up with a whole legal framework that is
based on the differences rather than what we have in common.
Has it been difficult to take that on? Yes? Are
some people frustrated? Do they say that it's distracting? Yes?

(05:53):
Can we succeed while we continue to march down a
path off division at a deep constitution level and at
every single government department. No, I'm glad we took it on. Yes.
Does that show that the coalition has actually been had
value added by parties such as acts? Absolutely right?

Speaker 1 (06:13):
As far as you can explain this to me, are
you tomorrow meeting is a cabinet with Peters on zoom
from New York, having gathered the information from as many
and varied meetings on Palestine, and you will all sit
around and have an actual vote on whether to recognize
Palestine or not? Or is this just a massive smoke screen?

Speaker 2 (06:36):
The truth is halfway between certainly not a smoke screen.
I'm not aware that there will be a full cabinet meeting,
and Cabinet has not voted in the time that I've
been a part of it. What cabinet has done is
delegated the ability to alter an initial decision to certain
ministers if need be. That is very much an open possibility.

(07:02):
It's true that Cabinet has the ability to change the
decision through the ministers. It's delegated too, and I guess
we remain ready for the Prime Minister to call that
sort of meeting.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Given what I'm assuming he will say Saturday morning. How
does it sit with you as a person who stood
on the tiles the other day and say, how do
you possibly recognize somebody that holds hostages?

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, everybody's expressed that view. I mean, Chris Luxon said
a very similar thing on your show on Friday. How
I sit with it as a personal thing. Whatever happens,
I'm going to be supporting the government position because that's
what I signed up for. But let's just see how
it goes. I'm looking forward to seeing a sensible announcement

(07:52):
from New Zealand, and I think when we get to it,
having been the people who have seriously considered all the facts,
rather than jumped up and down, perhaps for a bit
of political theater, as some other countries may have done.
I think New Zealand will be able to hold its yet.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
High Appreciate your time, David Seymour, Associate Minister of Health,
What an excellent insight that was. For more from the
Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks it'd be
from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.