April 24, 2025 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, broadcaster Mark Sainsbury and Infrastructure NZ's Nick Leggett joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
How do we feel about the fact that we're buying new cars - and paying for their maintenance - for our former Prime Ministers?
Should taxpayers be funding more locally made reality shows?
ACT and National are at odds over the ACC's race-based policies - what do we make of this?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The huddle with New Zealand Southby's International realty, the ones
with worldwide connections that perform not a promise that all
this evening.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Mark Sainsbury, Broadcaster and Nick Leggett Infrastructure, New Zealand High Lads. Hello,
Oh Sainso's done it again, Nick So, sains are you back?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I am Sainso So before I've been warned about you,
they said to me. I hear the while you've been
away on maternity leave. Sainzo has been bloody while muting
himself with his cheeks again and I said he was
doing that last year. And then we lose you like
before it's evening. What's going on?
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Just look, I'm just you just you threatened me with
your eloquence and everything. That's sort of.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Evidently so does Ryan because it was happening when I
was up here. I just think you're you're a boomer
king on the phone, aren't you. That's that's right.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Nick.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Listen, how do you feel about the prime us buying
the prime minister's cars after they're no longer prime ministers.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I've got absolutely no problem with it. Whatever. These are
people that have served New Zealand and the top office
and irrespective of that service and the work they put
in as prime minister. I think the truth is that
former prime ministers are actually called upon to do quite
a lot of free stuff. And I know because I'm
(01:18):
someone that's asked some of them to do, you know,
come and speak at events and have lunches with people
and talk about their experiences, and they say yes, and
they don't get paid. So I think that you know,
contributing to their vehicle, you know, servicing a vehicle for
them buying a vehicle, I think are pretty small. It's
(01:41):
not a massive contribution to people who have contributed very
significantly to the country and continue to do so. I mean,
I think we're very well served by former prime ministers
of all stripes, and I think that most Kiwis would say, yep,
these are people that have served, but they also that
there's some wisdom amongst this lot and we continue to
benefit from it as a country. So I think it's
(02:02):
mean spirited if we don't honor the legislation that allows
them these vehicles.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Saying yeah, well, it's interesting you look at the Remuneration Authority,
which sort of controls all that sort of basically said
you know that these were provided because like with the
chauffeur driven cars, if you are in the Crown cars,
if you're doing business in relation to you being in
former prime minister, like you know, if Nick was, you know,
shoehorned them into coming along to sort of something. But
(02:29):
I also noticed that the self drive cars Jim Bolger's
eighty nine is he still driving?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
What's a good point? Does missus Bulger get permission?
Speaker 4 (02:39):
I mean, you know, I think Jim made a huge
contribution to this country, quite frankly, but you sort of
wonder why on earth would you provide a car to
someone who probably doesn't drive well?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
This is a fair point. Also, Nick, have you looked
at some of these cars because they're ugly? Like the
only one, the only person.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Was much happier to critique that the choice of vehicle,
whether or not the vehicle's provided here that I agree.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, No, I mean the only one with class is
Helen because she went for the MG, which is a
tyst little vehicle. But the other ones are hidious, aren't they?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah? I don't think the hund ikhanas a beauties. I
quite like Jim Bolger's Outlander because that's what my family's got,
But look, the point is these are people that have
served the country. They continue to serve the country. I
think it's it's it's mean and nit picky to go
after them on pretty small costs when they're continuing to contribute.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Okay, saying though, how do you feel about funding increasing
the funding for reality TV shows that are made in
New Zealand and the risk being that we do end
up funding F Boy Island?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, I mean, well, should we also be funding the news?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Have you got?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I mean it's interesting because that whole scheme was set
up to try and preserve the industry and develop the
skills and everything like that. I see one of the
criteria was that it's some it's of cultural benefit to
New Zealand. Now F Boy Ireland or other ones, I
do not know how they're going to be contributing to
the cultural benefit of this country. Yeah, it's it's I
(04:15):
can understand the fund in terms of supporting production, but
is this saying no production can survive anymore? Anything we
make in this country is going to have to be
is going to have to be heavily subsidized.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I mean, I can sort of understand funding the news
because there is some democratic value in having news served
up to you, But is there any value in having
maths New Zealand served up to you?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Yeah? I don't think we should make a sort of
a value judgment based on whether or not it's within
our personal taste. I think Mark's point about supporting local
production is a good one. I mean, culture comes in
all forms, and I think being.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
A Slovnik I am and I can't know.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I know, so I don't. I don't watch. I don't
want that stuff. I do know there are people close
to me who do. But I just I think that
it comes in all forms, right, and even though it's
not you know, your individual choice to watch it. I
don't think we can be snooty about the choices people make.
(05:17):
So I'm actually I'm in favor of like supporting local content.
And if it means if it's something that's a bit
low brow, well so be it a bit low brow.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
He's totally low brow. All right, We'll take a break.
Come back to you guys in the Tech Quarter two.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty achieve extraordinary
results with unparallel reach.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Right back with the Huddle, Mark Sainsbury, Nick leg It's sayings,
So what do you make of the fact that this
race based stuff is still happening under national.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah, well, I mean you look at the Cabinet director
and you can see there's gonna be some issues there.
But by the same token, it's this whole thing over
need versus race, you know, and if you're going to
judge things on need, if they look at the stat
since says that this particular group you know, are more
prone to a more prone or have a higher accident rate.
You know, this is not conferring some special status or
(06:10):
no monetary benefit. It's saying if we think it's a problem,
that's trying and solve it. I run think of Men's
Health Week and one of the things with that is
that the stats for PACIFICA and Mari men are just
appalling half of them will not get the pension. So
is it wrong then to focus on those groups if
you see there's a specific need.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I think you can.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Get caught up sometimes. I think in all of this
and I think if the outcome is going to be good,
then what the hell?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah? The problem here, really, Nick, is the fact that
there was a directive that went out to public servants
to stop doing this stuff. The nets and Act and
New Zealand Verst were elected on the understanding by a
lot of voters that they would stop doing the stuff.
To have a national minister just totally defy that and
say he's going to keep doing it, there's your problem, right,
it's voters' expectations, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Well. I think Mark has hit it on the head.
And you could argue here that you've got groups that
are disproportionately impacted by workplace accidents because of the sort
of work that they do. So you've got Mardi and
Pacifica communities who have more accidents than you know, their
proportion of the workforce. That's not to target them to
(07:23):
reduce the harm that they are receiving disproportionately. Is not
race based. That's need based. No, it's not because it
is a need that No. No, it's not disproportionately affective.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It literally is. If you are identifying people based on race,
that is race based.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
It is it is need based. It is need based
here because they're disproportionately negatively impacted. Yes, that's that's a needy.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Okay, We're just going to go around in circles on
this one. But I would argue that everybody who gets
injured is it need of being of being saved from
that injury. When you start splitting it down gender lines,
that's gender based. When you start splitting it down racial lines,
it's race based.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Right, So I think I think, I think it's a
It is a fair point. How do you actually target
how do you go after the group that the people
that are going to be impacted by injury are hurting
themselves and then you do sometimes have to target. Me
put it different.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Let me put it to your what proportion of the
workers in the manufacturing sector are Maori and Pacifica?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I think it was for it was eleven percent eighteen
percent targeting.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
That was the target that they were aiming for, right,
But what proportion of them actually are those workers? Do
you know what? I mean?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
That's what That's what That's what my understanding and reading
that was that that those were the figures. But then
you've got a number that isn't that.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So then if you have eighteen percent of your workers
who are injured working in that sector being Marii and
eleven percent being Pacifica, if you just managed to save
those those injuries five hundred. Then it should split down
those lines, shouldn't it if you just do it?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Of course, that's right, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
You don't need to set this target. It should just
naturally happen.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Well, I don't think that they're mutually exclusive. I think
you say, we want to stop people getting hurt in
the workplace, right, and if we can go after groups
that are disproportionately getting hurt in the workplace to reduce
the total number, why wouldn't we do that. But you're right,
we should be doing it in general terms as well.
It's not all of one or none of the other.
We want. What we want to do is stop people
(09:32):
getting hurt. So I think Scott Simpson has been responsible
as a minister to back this. It is we want
to go where need is. We want to target people
and groups who we know are getting hurt at greater rates.
I don't think I can't imagine anybody thinking that's a
bad idea. We've got to we've got to step back
(09:52):
and I think just think about one of the most
effective ways to reduce heart and if this isn't an
effective way, let's do something else. But until it's you know,
till it's shan that isn't then let's.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Keep keeping I've letting it go for so long. You
want to do you want to just chip in with
something before we end this nook.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Well, I suppose it's all the fusty other the other week
about sort of you know, pregnant persons and actually not
using the word woman, and you look at this and
think this is just about as mad. I mean, if
there is a problem and there is a couple of cohorts,
a couple of groups that need attention, then what's what's
so wrong with doing it? We're just sort of, oh,
we don't mention the race work.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Interesting, Okay, guys, thank you that appreciate it. Mark Sainsbury
Broadcaster and Nick Leggett Infrastructure, New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
The huddle with New Zealand Southby's International realty, the ones
with worldwide connections that perform not a promise that all
this evening.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Mark Sainsbury, Broadcaster and Nick Leggett Infrastructure, New Zealand High Lads. Hello,
Oh Sainso's done it again, Nick So, sains are you back?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I am Sainso So before I've been warned about you,
they said to me. I hear the while you've been
away on maternity leave. Sainzo has been bloody while muting
himself with his cheeks again and I said he was
doing that last year. And then we lose you like
before it's evening. What's going on?
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Just look, I'm just you just you threatened me with
your eloquence and everything. That's sort of.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Evidently so does Ryan because it was happening when I
was up here. I just think you're you're a boomer
king on the phone, aren't you. That's that's right.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Nick.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Listen, how do you feel about the prime us buying
the prime minister's cars after they're no longer prime ministers.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I've got absolutely no problem with it. Whatever. These are
people that have served New Zealand and the top office
and irrespective of that service and the work they put
in as prime minister. I think the truth is that
former prime ministers are actually called upon to do quite
a lot of free stuff. And I know because I'm
(01:18):
someone that's asked some of them to do, you know,
come and speak at events and have lunches with people
and talk about their experiences, and they say yes, and
they don't get paid. So I think that you know,
contributing to their vehicle, you know, servicing a vehicle for
them buying a vehicle, I think are pretty small. It's
(01:41):
not a massive contribution to people who have contributed very
significantly to the country and continue to do so. I mean,
I think we're very well served by former prime ministers
of all stripes, and I think that most Kiwis would say, yep,
these are people that have served, but they also that
there's some wisdom amongst this lot and we continue to
benefit from it as a country. So I think it's
(02:02):
mean spirited if we don't honor the legislation that allows
them these vehicles.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Saying yeah, well, it's interesting you look at the Remuneration Authority,
which sort of controls all that sort of basically said
you know that these were provided because like with the
chauffeur driven cars, if you are in the Crown cars,
if you're doing business in relation to you being in
former prime minister, like you know, if Nick was, you know,
shoehorned them into coming along to sort of something. But
(02:29):
I also noticed that the self drive cars Jim Bolger's
eighty nine is he still driving?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
What's a good point? Does missus Bulger get permission?
Speaker 4 (02:39):
I mean, you know, I think Jim made a huge
contribution to this country, quite frankly, but you sort of
wonder why on earth would you provide a car to
someone who probably doesn't drive well?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
This is a fair point. Also, Nick, have you looked
at some of these cars because they're ugly? Like the
only one, the only person.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Was much happier to critique that the choice of vehicle,
whether or not the vehicle's provided here that I agree.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, No, I mean the only one with class is
Helen because she went for the MG, which is a
tyst little vehicle. But the other ones are hidious, aren't they?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah? I don't think the hund ikhanas a beauties. I
quite like Jim Bolger's Outlander because that's what my family's got,
But look, the point is these are people that have
served the country. They continue to serve the country. I
think it's it's it's mean and nit picky to go
after them on pretty small costs when they're continuing to contribute.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Okay, saying though, how do you feel about funding increasing
the funding for reality TV shows that are made in
New Zealand and the risk being that we do end
up funding F Boy Island?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, I mean, well, should we also be funding the news?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Have you got?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I mean it's interesting because that whole scheme was set
up to try and preserve the industry and develop the
skills and everything like that. I see one of the
criteria was that it's some it's of cultural benefit to
New Zealand. Now F Boy Ireland or other ones, I
do not know how they're going to be contributing to
the cultural benefit of this country. Yeah, it's it's I
(04:15):
can understand the fund in terms of supporting production, but
is this saying no production can survive anymore? Anything we
make in this country is going to have to be
is going to have to be heavily subsidized.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I mean, I can sort of understand funding the news
because there is some democratic value in having news served
up to you, But is there any value in having
maths New Zealand served up to you?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Yeah? I don't think we should make a sort of
a value judgment based on whether or not it's within
our personal taste. I think Mark's point about supporting local
production is a good one. I mean, culture comes in
all forms, and I think being.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
A Slovnik I am and I can't know.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I know, so I don't. I don't watch. I don't
want that stuff. I do know there are people close
to me who do. But I just I think that
it comes in all forms, right, and even though it's
not you know, your individual choice to watch it. I
don't think we can be snooty about the choices people make.
(05:17):
So I'm actually I'm in favor of like supporting local content.
And if it means if it's something that's a bit
low brow, well so be it a bit low brow.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
He's totally low brow. All right, We'll take a break.
Come back to you guys in the Tech Quarter two.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty achieve extraordinary
results with unparallel reach.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Right back with the Huddle, Mark Sainsbury, Nick leg It's sayings,
So what do you make of the fact that this
race based stuff is still happening under national.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah, well, I mean you look at the Cabinet director
and you can see there's gonna be some issues there.
But by the same token, it's this whole thing over
need versus race, you know, and if you're going to
judge things on need, if they look at the stat
since says that this particular group you know, are more
prone to a more prone or have a higher accident rate.
You know, this is not conferring some special status or
(06:10):
no monetary benefit. It's saying if we think it's a problem,
that's trying and solve it. I run think of Men's
Health Week and one of the things with that is
that the stats for PACIFICA and Mari men are just
appalling half of them will not get the pension. So
is it wrong then to focus on those groups if
you see there's a specific need.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I think you can.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Get caught up sometimes. I think in all of this
and I think if the outcome is going to be good,
then what the hell?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah? The problem here, really, Nick, is the fact that
there was a directive that went out to public servants
to stop doing this stuff. The nets and Act and
New Zealand Verst were elected on the understanding by a
lot of voters that they would stop doing the stuff.
To have a national minister just totally defy that and
say he's going to keep doing it, there's your problem, right,
it's voters' expectations, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Well. I think Mark has hit it on the head.
And you could argue here that you've got groups that
are disproportionately impacted by workplace accidents because of the sort
of work that they do. So you've got Mardi and
Pacifica communities who have more accidents than you know, their
proportion of the workforce. That's not to target them to
(07:23):
reduce the harm that they are receiving disproportionately. Is not
race based. That's need based. No, it's not because it
is a need that No. No, it's not disproportionately affective.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It literally is. If you are identifying people based on race,
that is race based.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
It is it is need based. It is need based
here because they're disproportionately negatively impacted. Yes, that's that's a needy.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Okay, We're just going to go around in circles on
this one. But I would argue that everybody who gets
injured is it need of being of being saved from
that injury. When you start splitting it down gender lines,
that's gender based. When you start splitting it down racial lines,
it's race based.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Right, So I think I think, I think it's a
It is a fair point. How do you actually target
how do you go after the group that the people
that are going to be impacted by injury are hurting
themselves and then you do sometimes have to target. Me
put it different.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Let me put it to your what proportion of the
workers in the manufacturing sector are Maori and Pacifica?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I think it was for it was eleven percent eighteen
percent targeting.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
That was the target that they were aiming for, right,
But what proportion of them actually are those workers? Do
you know what? I mean?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
That's what That's what That's what my understanding and reading
that was that that those were the figures. But then
you've got a number that isn't that.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So then if you have eighteen percent of your workers
who are injured working in that sector being Marii and
eleven percent being Pacifica, if you just managed to save
those those injuries five hundred. Then it should split down
those lines, shouldn't it if you just do it?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Of course, that's right, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
You don't need to set this target. It should just
naturally happen.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Well, I don't think that they're mutually exclusive. I think
you say, we want to stop people getting hurt in
the workplace, right, and if we can go after groups
that are disproportionately getting hurt in the workplace to reduce
the total number, why wouldn't we do that. But you're right,
we should be doing it in general terms as well.
It's not all of one or none of the other.
We want. What we want to do is stop people
(09:32):
getting hurt. So I think Scott Simpson has been responsible
as a minister to back this. It is we want
to go where need is. We want to target people
and groups who we know are getting hurt at greater rates.
I don't think I can't imagine anybody thinking that's a
bad idea. We've got to we've got to step back
(09:52):
and I think just think about one of the most
effective ways to reduce heart and if this isn't an
effective way, let's do something else. But until it's you know,
till it's shan that isn't then let's.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Keep keeping I've letting it go for so long. You
want to do you want to just chip in with
something before we end this nook.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Well, I suppose it's all the fusty other the other week
about sort of you know, pregnant persons and actually not
using the word woman, and you look at this and
think this is just about as mad. I mean, if
there is a problem and there is a couple of cohorts,
a couple of groups that need attention, then what's what's
so wrong with doing it? We're just sort of, oh,
we don't mention the race work.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Interesting, Okay, guys, thank you that appreciate it. Mark Sainsbury
Broadcaster and Nick Leggett Infrastructure, New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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