September 11, 2025 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Infrastructure NZ chief executive Nick Leggett and CTU economist Craig Renney joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Right-wing activist and speaker Charlie Kirk was fatally shot and killed in Utah earlier today. Are we worried about what this means for the future of political discourse?
Stuart Nash has resigned following his infamous comments about what makes a woman - did he have choice in the matter? And what could this mean for his chances in NZ First?
Should non-elected council members be allowed to vote? ACT is looking to change that - do we agree with this?
Dame Noeline Taurua was stood down as Silver Ferns coach - do we think this is fair or another case of Gen Z being too fragile?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty find your
one of a kind hither.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
If it wasn't for low rates and things getting done,
Mayor Brown would be gone, then you'll probably bang on
on the huddle with US. Craig Renis t U chief
Economist and Nick Leggett Infrastructure, New Zealand. Hello you too, Craig.
On the shooting is I can hear you on the
shooting of Charlie kirk Over in the US. I think
we've I mean, I think we can all accept this
is the new normal over there, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
It definitely seems to be. You know, we've we've had
the shooting, the shooting of Donald Trump. There's been a
range of shootings of other congressmen and congress women. It's
a country with a Second Amendment and arguably far too
many firearms. You know, it does seem to be a
sort of a cost of doing business to be in
public office in the US.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
What do you think, Nichols? If what worries me is
if it catches on there and becomes established, it kind
of flows into the rest of the world and possibly
even here, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
I think that's what we have to be on guard about.
I mean, I think kiwis value a liberal democracy when
we look at America, and you know, I do also
think that we've lived in an age of relative calm,
whereas political violence has actually often been the norm in
the United States if you look back, you know, one hundred,
(01:21):
one hundred and fifty two hundred years. That's no excuse.
We have to tackle this head on. But actually, you
know I didn't. It. Was not a follower of Charlie Kirk.
I am not a fan of most of what he says,
but I do support him and people like his right
to say it and their opponents. And I think that
(01:43):
if we get to this point where people are taken
out by the use of violence for being controversial, we
are skating so fast and so far away from democracy
that we're in trouble as a society.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, I think it's a fair point. All right, Craig
want to on Stuart Nation. I'm getting a lot of
texts on either side of this debate. Does he have
a future in New Zealand first or not?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Well, I mean that'll be up to New Zealand First
to to say. But my guess is that he probably
doesn't in terms of, you know, the court of public opinion.
I think what he said was was pretty out there.
It doesn't fit with anything I've ever heard the former
definit depart Minister Winston Peter's ever say. It's certainly not
language I think he would find acceptable in any in
(02:28):
any meeting that I've ever been with him in. So
I really do struggle with the idea that he would
have a front bench publicly facing role after this.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
What do you reckon, Nick.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Well? I mean, obviously his employer has spoken and this
is a pretty gross thing to say. And I think
though that, you know, let's think about the last topic.
There are people are saying, you know, more and more
outrageous things and using language that's out there. MW zeum
on first, and I agree Winston would have no truck
(03:02):
with this kind of language. But it has to be
a kind of broad coalition. And when you're going for seven, eight,
ten percent of the vote, you can actually afford for
eighty or ninety percent of the electric to not be
you made to not think you say, you're speaking the
right words, and that's that's you know, this is a
proportional electoral system we got and that's the reality of it.
(03:25):
So I think that New Uettle First will make that
decision and they'll they'll obviously have their future and minds
when they do it.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I mean, I guess the question is Craig. I mean,
this is a fantastic point that Nick has made. Is
right even if ninety percent of people don't like it,
it's just a ten percent that have to and is
it the right ten percent for New Zealand First? Is it?
Will their voters be okay with it?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Well?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I think actually one of the reasons that they have
tried to bring Stuart back in is because they were
looking at the seat of an airpier thinking can we
get a seat, which means that regardless awhere of all
we sit on the threat chores, we always get back
into Parliament. And so it's actually much more. It's that
ten percent rule would apply if they weren't trying to
win that seat back. And so you need to get
(04:11):
you know, the plurality of vaults in the Nepia. And
that's why this is so important, because that language, you're
not going to win the plurality of volts and Nepia
on that basis.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Does Napier include Havelock Norse.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I honestly it.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
So I reckon they might might be Okay, then do
we have lock North that it is like, oh no,
you can't say that.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
The Noka.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
We don't know, we don't know how this is going
to play in different parts of the country. In my
view is most people don't use that language, and most
people would think it was pretty poor taste and offensive
in some in some instances.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
So it was out the cress, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Yeah? Really so? But in a year's time, I mean
see if it's you know, if it's remembered. I mean
people do say outrageous things from time to time and
they're forgiven.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, And look, I think they're an element part of
me wants to forgive them because it was just a
bad joke, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the global
leader and Luxury real Estate.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Right, you're back with the Huddle. We've got Nick Leggant
and Craig Renny with us.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Nick.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Now this Dame Nole's debate. I'm putting this down to
a generational problem where the younger generation doesn't like hard
work words and what is it that they said that
they're psychologically unsafe. What do you think it is?
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Well, I would have to give Dame Nolan the benefits
of the doubt as well. But it does speak to
something that's clearly been festering away, I think is how
it was described. And I do worry, you know, I
think New Zealand is a non confrontational and often the
stuff is left to fester and then it blows out
(05:56):
of all proportion, and you do wonder if those responsible
should have intervened earlier and got it sorted. But I
think there are some hard conversations, you know. I think
a lot generations do differ, and I think that it
would be fair to say that there are elements of
this generation coming up that probably don't like to be
spoken to or wouldn't find it acceptably spoken to in
(06:18):
a way that perhaps either you, Craig or I would be.
But there has to be discussed and confronted. So this
stuff could be sort of because it's so important to
allow crises like this to develop.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, totally. It sparked a debate in the office today,
Craig about whether you do have to be hard ass
in order to be successful as a coach, Do you
have to be tough on these guys to get the
excellence or can you actually go softly softly just let
them sort of lead themselves to excellence.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I think the key thing is you've got to work
with the people that you're working with, and you've got
to work with their skills and their talents, and you've
got to work with how you know you're going to
bring the best out of people. And sometimes that can
mean being hard. Sometimes that can mean, you know, putting
an arm around them. The best football managers, the best
you know, sports managers, they work with the people that
(07:07):
are in front of them and they work with them
on their strengths and weaknesses. So I think it's it's
it's much more complicated than that than just sort of saying,
you know, you've got to be Alex Ferguson type and
be hard and tell everyone what.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Well, he was pretty successful so your whole life.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
No, it didn't, because if you think about someone like
David Beckham, you know, if you're kicking the boots in
his face and then he ups and leaves and goes
to Real Madrid and has a fantastic career there, then
you know, arguably that backfired.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Well, it was pasted it at that stage.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Oh, he did pretty well at Real Madrid.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
You know. But I think, you know, and I trust
me as a Newcastle fan, I would have taken them
at Newcastle at that point in time. But but I think,
you know, it's about it's about building, working with the
workers that you have and working with their talents.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Suppose this is true.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
You know this as a parent, don't you, Nick. I mean,
some of the kids can can handle a bit of
the old tough love and then other ones, you know,
you just look at them and they start crying.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Yes, exactly, And that's I think the point that Craig's making,
isn't it That you work with what you've got and
you adapt, you know, to people, and and bring out
their skills in different ways, you know. And that's but
you know, you would I would imagine that that Dame
Noling would do that. There just seems to be some
(08:26):
you know, but potentially a mismatch somewhere along the line here.
And as I say, I think if it had been
brought out into the open earlier, perhaps it could have
been you know, there would have been a different results.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I think this, Yeah, I think You're right, though, I
think the Born New Zealand has just completely cocked the
thing up by the looks of things. Now, Craig, would
you go and stay in a hotel if you knew
that there were ghosts there?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Depend how it depends how stup it is. The level
of spiritual activity in it is kind of irrelevant. If
it's good and she will absolutely stand it. And in fact,
if the fact that supportedly haunted makes it cheaper, great, yeah, yeah,
you know, instead of no, you know, whether whether or
not I would be asking if the plumbing is going
(09:07):
to work, because it's often just the plumbing that's making
the people believe in the ghosts rather than actually anything else.
But yeah, right, rather than rather than you believe in
it being haunted, and that's definitely not going to put
me off.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah all right, what about you, Nick.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
Well, no, I'm into it. I've done it. In fact,
I stayed at Sambathan's and Otago, there's the old pubs there,
and I stayed in the haunted room where the woman
apparently it actually turned out when I approached the owner
that it was probably garbage, but that was exciting. And
I've also stayed at the White tom Or Caves Hotel,
(09:43):
which has a definite sort of air about it, so yeah,
it would attract me rather than detract me.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Look at you.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
I'm a Gaulish I'm a Gaulish head.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Run to danger, Nick, run to danger.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
That's me.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, guys, love it. Thank you the pair of you.
Craig Rennie Nick Leggett.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
News Talk SETB from four pm weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty find your
one of a kind hither.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
If it wasn't for low rates and things getting done,
Mayor Brown would be gone, then you'll probably bang on
on the huddle with US. Craig Renis t U chief
Economist and Nick Leggett Infrastructure, New Zealand. Hello you too, Craig.
On the shooting is I can hear you on the
shooting of Charlie kirk Over in the US. I think
we've I mean, I think we can all accept this
is the new normal over there, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
It definitely seems to be. You know, we've we've had
the shooting, the shooting of Donald Trump. There's been a
range of shootings of other congressmen and congress women. It's
a country with a Second Amendment and arguably far too
many firearms. You know, it does seem to be a
sort of a cost of doing business to be in
public office in the US.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
What do you think, Nichols? If what worries me is
if it catches on there and becomes established, it kind
of flows into the rest of the world and possibly
even here, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
I think that's what we have to be on guard about.
I mean, I think kiwis value a liberal democracy when
we look at America, and you know, I do also
think that we've lived in an age of relative calm,
whereas political violence has actually often been the norm in
the United States if you look back, you know, one hundred,
(01:21):
one hundred and fifty two hundred years. That's no excuse.
We have to tackle this head on. But actually, you
know I didn't. It. Was not a follower of Charlie Kirk.
I am not a fan of most of what he says,
but I do support him and people like his right
to say it and their opponents. And I think that
(01:43):
if we get to this point where people are taken
out by the use of violence for being controversial, we
are skating so fast and so far away from democracy
that we're in trouble as a society.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, I think it's a fair point. All right, Craig
want to on Stuart Nation. I'm getting a lot of
texts on either side of this debate. Does he have
a future in New Zealand first or not?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Well, I mean that'll be up to New Zealand First
to to say. But my guess is that he probably
doesn't in terms of, you know, the court of public opinion.
I think what he said was was pretty out there.
It doesn't fit with anything I've ever heard the former
definit depart Minister Winston Peter's ever say. It's certainly not
language I think he would find acceptable in any in
(02:28):
any meeting that I've ever been with him in. So
I really do struggle with the idea that he would
have a front bench publicly facing role after this.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
What do you reckon, Nick.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Well? I mean, obviously his employer has spoken and this
is a pretty gross thing to say. And I think
though that, you know, let's think about the last topic.
There are people are saying, you know, more and more
outrageous things and using language that's out there. MW zeum
on first, and I agree Winston would have no truck
(03:02):
with this kind of language. But it has to be
a kind of broad coalition. And when you're going for seven, eight,
ten percent of the vote, you can actually afford for
eighty or ninety percent of the electric to not be
you made to not think you say, you're speaking the
right words, and that's that's you know, this is a
proportional electoral system we got and that's the reality of it.
(03:25):
So I think that New Uettle First will make that
decision and they'll they'll obviously have their future and minds
when they do it.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I mean, I guess the question is Craig. I mean,
this is a fantastic point that Nick has made. Is
right even if ninety percent of people don't like it,
it's just a ten percent that have to and is
it the right ten percent for New Zealand First? Is it?
Will their voters be okay with it?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Well?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I think actually one of the reasons that they have
tried to bring Stuart back in is because they were
looking at the seat of an airpier thinking can we
get a seat, which means that regardless awhere of all
we sit on the threat chores, we always get back
into Parliament. And so it's actually much more. It's that
ten percent rule would apply if they weren't trying to
win that seat back. And so you need to get
(04:11):
you know, the plurality of vaults in the Nepia. And
that's why this is so important, because that language, you're
not going to win the plurality of volts and Nepia
on that basis.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Does Napier include Havelock Norse.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I honestly it.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
So I reckon they might might be Okay, then do
we have lock North that it is like, oh no,
you can't say that.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
The Noka.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
We don't know, we don't know how this is going
to play in different parts of the country. In my
view is most people don't use that language, and most
people would think it was pretty poor taste and offensive
in some in some instances.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
So it was out the cress, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Yeah? Really so? But in a year's time, I mean
see if it's you know, if it's remembered. I mean
people do say outrageous things from time to time and
they're forgiven.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, And look, I think they're an element part of
me wants to forgive them because it was just a
bad joke, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the global
leader and Luxury real Estate.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Right, you're back with the Huddle. We've got Nick Leggant
and Craig Renny with us.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Nick.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Now this Dame Nole's debate. I'm putting this down to
a generational problem where the younger generation doesn't like hard
work words and what is it that they said that
they're psychologically unsafe. What do you think it is?
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Well, I would have to give Dame Nolan the benefits
of the doubt as well. But it does speak to
something that's clearly been festering away, I think is how
it was described. And I do worry, you know, I
think New Zealand is a non confrontational and often the
stuff is left to fester and then it blows out
(05:56):
of all proportion, and you do wonder if those responsible
should have intervened earlier and got it sorted. But I
think there are some hard conversations, you know. I think
a lot generations do differ, and I think that it
would be fair to say that there are elements of
this generation coming up that probably don't like to be
spoken to or wouldn't find it acceptably spoken to in
(06:18):
a way that perhaps either you, Craig or I would be.
But there has to be discussed and confronted. So this
stuff could be sort of because it's so important to
allow crises like this to develop.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, totally. It sparked a debate in the office today,
Craig about whether you do have to be hard ass
in order to be successful as a coach, Do you
have to be tough on these guys to get the
excellence or can you actually go softly softly just let
them sort of lead themselves to excellence.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I think the key thing is you've got to work
with the people that you're working with, and you've got
to work with their skills and their talents, and you've
got to work with how you know you're going to
bring the best out of people. And sometimes that can
mean being hard. Sometimes that can mean, you know, putting
an arm around them. The best football managers, the best
you know, sports managers, they work with the people that
(07:07):
are in front of them and they work with them
on their strengths and weaknesses. So I think it's it's
it's much more complicated than that than just sort of saying,
you know, you've got to be Alex Ferguson type and
be hard and tell everyone what.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Well, he was pretty successful so your whole life.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
No, it didn't, because if you think about someone like
David Beckham, you know, if you're kicking the boots in
his face and then he ups and leaves and goes
to Real Madrid and has a fantastic career there, then
you know, arguably that backfired.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Well, it was pasted it at that stage.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Oh, he did pretty well at Real Madrid.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
You know. But I think, you know, and I trust
me as a Newcastle fan, I would have taken them
at Newcastle at that point in time. But but I think,
you know, it's about it's about building, working with the
workers that you have and working with their talents.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Suppose this is true.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
You know this as a parent, don't you, Nick. I mean,
some of the kids can can handle a bit of
the old tough love and then other ones, you know,
you just look at them and they start crying.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Yes, exactly, And that's I think the point that Craig's making,
isn't it That you work with what you've got and
you adapt, you know, to people, and and bring out
their skills in different ways, you know. And that's but
you know, you would I would imagine that that Dame
Noling would do that. There just seems to be some
(08:26):
you know, but potentially a mismatch somewhere along the line here.
And as I say, I think if it had been
brought out into the open earlier, perhaps it could have
been you know, there would have been a different results.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I think this, Yeah, I think You're right, though, I
think the Born New Zealand has just completely cocked the
thing up by the looks of things. Now, Craig, would
you go and stay in a hotel if you knew
that there were ghosts there?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Depend how it depends how stup it is. The level
of spiritual activity in it is kind of irrelevant. If
it's good and she will absolutely stand it. And in fact,
if the fact that supportedly haunted makes it cheaper, great, yeah, yeah,
you know, instead of no, you know, whether whether or
not I would be asking if the plumbing is going
(09:07):
to work, because it's often just the plumbing that's making
the people believe in the ghosts rather than actually anything else.
But yeah, right, rather than rather than you believe in
it being haunted, and that's definitely not going to put
me off.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah all right, what about you, Nick.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
Well, no, I'm into it. I've done it. In fact,
I stayed at Sambathan's and Otago, there's the old pubs there,
and I stayed in the haunted room where the woman
apparently it actually turned out when I approached the owner
that it was probably garbage, but that was exciting. And
I've also stayed at the White tom Or Caves Hotel,
(09:43):
which has a definite sort of air about it, so yeah,
it would attract me rather than detract me.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Look at you.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
I'm a Gaulish I'm a Gaulish head.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Run to danger, Nick, run to danger.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
That's me.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, guys, love it. Thank you the pair of you.
Craig Rennie Nick Leggett.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
News Talk SETB from four pm weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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