John MacDonald: Does the government really think this is going to work?

Sometimes you just have to resort to cliches, because there are times when there’s just no other way to say it. Or no better way to say it.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over-and-over and expecting different results.

That’s how I feel about the Government strengthening its Three Strikes law to make it easier to keep repeat offenders in prison for longer.

Which means that instead of 3 Strikes kicking-in after someone’s first sentence of two years or more, they’re going to be in the running if their first sentence is just one year or more.

So, if someone commits a crime with punishments longer than one year (the first time around) and then goes on to commit two more crimes and gets sentences of two years or more for each of them - the third time, the judge has to give out the maximum sentence. No discounts.

Until now, the 3 Strikes was only going to kick-in after someone committed their first crime that had a sentence of two years or more. Now it’s going to kick in if their first crime gets a sentence of just one year, or more.

And the reason I think it’s insanity is the same reason that Julie-Anne Kincade thinks it’s insane. She’s a King’s Counsel and Vice-President of the Law Association, and here’s what she had to say to Mike about this a couple of hours ago:

She says there's no evidence that Three Strikes works in the way that people think it will work. She says it doesn't deter people, and some people might be sent to jail just because they don't have a house where they can serve home detention.

Julie-Anne Kincade is also concerned these changes to the Three Strikes laws could men negative outcomes for innocent people too.

"I'm also very concerned about the lack of parole. Parole is an incentive for good behaviour and it incentivises people to engage with psychologists and take programmes. To understand their trigger points.  

"Under this regime, the most serious offenders won't be allowed any parole. They won't be given any rehabilitation and then they'll be chucked out on the street without the strong support that parole system gives people to make sure they transition back into our society. This is actually going to achieve exactly the opposite of what they want to achieve."

If the aim is to reduce violent crime then the Government is barking up the wrong tree with this one. Because if it didn’t work the last time we had it —which was between 2010 and 2021— do you really think it’s going to work now? Of course it’s not.

And the reason it didn’t work last time we had it is because laws like this don’t take into account other factors like mental health, intellectual disability, the age of the offenders, and any addictions they might have.

The same thing happened in California after they brought in a Three Strikes law in 1994. In fact, it saw so many more people end up in prison that it nearly bankrupted the state. They, eventually, saw the light and got rid of it. 

Not here in New Zealand, though. The fact it failed last time obviously isn’t a concern for the Government - which is only doing what it’s doing to keep the crowds on the sidelines happy.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Morning's Podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know, sometimes you just have to resort to cliches,
don't you, or why why do you have to resort
to cliches? Because there are times when there's just no
other way to say it, or there are times when
there's no better way to say it. The definition of
insanity is doing the same thing over and over and

(00:34):
expecting different results. The definition of insanity is doing the
same thing over and over and expecting different results. And
that's how I feel about the government's strengthening its three
strikes law to make it easier to keep repeat offenders
in prison for longer, which means that instead of three

(00:55):
strikes kicking enough after someone's first sentence of two years
or more, they're going to be in the running if
their first sentence is just one year or more. So
this was announce us today by the government. So if
someone commits a crime with punishments longer than one year
the first time round, and then goes on to commit

(01:16):
two more crimes and get sentences of two years and
more for each of those the third time, this is
what the judge is going to have to do. The
third time, the judge has to give out the maximum sentence.
None of this discounting business. And until yesterday, the three
strikes were only going to kick in after someone committed

(01:38):
their first crime that had a sentence of two years
or more. Of half that it's going to kick in
after a sentence of just one year or more. And
the reason I think it's insanity it is the same
reason that Julie Ann Kincaid thinks it's insanity. She's a
King's counsel. She's also a vice president of the Law Association.

(02:00):
And here's what she had to say to Mike about
this a couple of hours ago.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
There's no evidence that this actually works in the way
that people want to work. It's not ad a terence. Unfortunately,
what we want, all of us want less crime and
less serious crime. But this is actually going to capture
all sorts of people who shouldn't necessarily be there. For example,
sence thing is very nuanced and difficult, and some people

(02:25):
might be sent to jail simply because they don't have
a house in which they can do an electronically monitored sentence.
It will lead to unfair and unjust outcomes.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Now before you roll your Eyson thing. Oh yeah, yeah,
and unjust outcomes for who I unjust outcomes for criminals?
So who cares about that? Well, before you think that
it's not just the outcomes for crims that Julie Encincayed
and other lawyers are concerned about with these changes to
the three strikes laws, she's also saying today that what's

(02:53):
going to happen is you and I could potentially face
some bad outcomes too. Have listened to this.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
I'm also very very concerned about the lack of parole.
Parole is an incentive for good behavior, and I encourage people,
incentivises them to do engage with psychologists and take programs,
understand the trigger points in this. Under this regime, the
most serious offenders will be not allowed any parole. They
won't be given any rehabilitation. We can say that now,

(03:21):
and then they'll be chucked out on the street without
this strong support that parole the parole system puts around
people to make sure they transition back into our society.
This is actually going to achieve exactly the opposite of
what they want to achieve.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
You say, it's nuts, isn't it, Because if the aim
is to reduce violent crime, and the government's backing up
the wrong tree with this one, because if it didn't
work the last time we had it, which was between
twenty ten and twenty twenty one, eleven years, if it
didn't work, then you really think it's going to work now.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Course not.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
And the reason it didn't work last time we had
it is because laws like this, just like Julie en
Kinkaib was saying that laws like this don't take into
account other factors like mental health, intellectual disability, age of
the offenders and in any addictions they might have. And
the same thing happened at backfired in California after they

(04:14):
brought in a three strikes law in nineteen ninety four.
In fact, it saw so many more people end up
in prison that it nearly bankrupted the state and they
eventually saw the light and they got rid of it.
Not here in New Zealand, though, oh no, no, no.
The fact that failed last time not a concern for
the government. But it's not a concern for the government

(04:34):
because it's only doing what it's doing to keep the
crowds on the sidelines happy. This is a placebo policy.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
For more from Catergory Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to news talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio