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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The breakfast Club Morning.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Everybody in is DJ n V Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy.
We are to breakfast Club. We got a special guest
in the building. Yes, indeed we have the Governor, Gretchen Whitmer.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Welcome, Thank you, I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
How are you feeling. I'm feeling good, feeling good? Would
you like some tequila this morning? Are the two early?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
You know, I don't good. Tequila's fine any time of day,
but I'm not going to start my day all that
way today.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I don't know if she wants because she can't keep
it down. Since has that stuck with you your whole life?
Like that one story and everybody always talks about that
one thing.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Well, you know, obviously what you're talking about is or
I drank too much when I was in high school
and you should have been drinking that at that young
age anyway. But I got caught drinking at a high
school football game. I was passed out. My principal came
upon me and I tossed my cookies on him, and uh,
you know, it was kind of a notorious thing at
the time. Everyone in school knew what happened. I got suspended,
(00:59):
I got in big trouble. My mother wanted to kill me.
But you know, I tell that story in my book
because it was that moment where I screwed up. But
I learned a lot and got my act together started,
you know, taking my academics more seriously. I had to
because I was at home for a month grounded. But
I'm sure, yeah, we learned when we screw up. If
(01:22):
you're if you're a person who evolves and you've learned
from it, then screw ups have value, right, So got
my act together, went to MSU, got into law school,
and learned kind of a lesson that if you surround
yourself by great people, it helps you achieve what you
want to. You learn from smart people, and that's kind
of been a philosophy of my life, but also how
(01:44):
I've governed. And in the story, you know, in the book,
True Gretcha, I talk a lot about people like doctor
Joan A. Kalduton, who was my chief medical executive during COVID,
and I'm proud, you know, we've got one of the
most diverse cabinets in state history in Michigan. And when
you empower people and have real representation, empowered representation, you
(02:05):
can get a lot of good stuff done. And I
think that drinking story was maybe the beginning of my
learning that when you to surround yourself by good people.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
As a mom, what do you tell your kids?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Right?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Because your kids are going to make mistakes. Right, you
have two daughters, and all I would say if I
was your daughter's mom, what about you in high school?
So what do you tell your kids?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Well, that's why I didn't tell them till after they
were out of high school. But you know, you know,
I mean, we're all human, and we got to see
the humanity in one another. We all fall short on occasion.
We got to hope that you learn from from those times.
And I think that's what I've tried to instill in
my own kids. They've made their own mistakes. But you
know what, Fortunately for my generation, we didn't all have
(02:47):
cell phones, we weren't all recording as it wasn't something
that you had a receipt that you had to carry
with you the rest of your life. And that's one
of the things I tried to encourage my kids to,
you know, give other people grace, give yourself a little grace,
and put that damn phone down.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Only had two more questions about that topic. Number one,
what was you drinking as a teenager? Right? And did
you get suspended for actually drinking or throwing up on
the principal vodka?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
It was vodka, it was easier to come by, and
the you know, I gouts suspended for drinking, okay, but
I'm sure throwing up didn't help my cause.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I also like, did you kept your book true gritch
what I've learned about life, leadership and everything between. I
like that you kept it short and it's the easy read.
Did you do that on purpose? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
You know, Charlamagne, one of the things that I get
asked the most, whether I'm traveling across Michigan or outside
of Michigan, is how do I stay positive? You know?
I ran for reelection and a lot of people said,
why do you want to keep doing this? You know,
on my first term, I dealt with a pandemic, a
president who targeted me, plot to kidney and kill me,
(03:52):
twenty eight recall attempts, dealt with flooding in Midland that
wiped out dams and bridges way to ten thousand people
in the middle of the night in the middle of
a pandemic, dealt with all the hate that that came
my way, and it was an understandable question, you know,
rational people said, why do you want to keep doing this?
(04:12):
And so this book really is that. It is kind
of a handbook ten things I've learned in my life
at different times in my life that I have used
in situation that I've had to navigate as governor. And
you know, I want to give people maybe you can
get a laugh at my expense about the drinking or
knocking my teeth out. I talk about that in the
(04:32):
book too. Maybe there's a lesson that will give someone
some inspiration when they're navigating a hard time, whether it's
in the workplace or in their private life, or maybe
it's just a little light reading. And what I know
is a heavy time for a lot of folks, all
of us, right, And so that's really what it's about,
trying to put a little light out in the world
in a damn dark time.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
It feels like a Judy Bloom book in a way.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
I don't know what that means yet.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I'm a huge It just feels like a adult, adult
Judy Bloom book.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah, that's nice. That's a I'll take that as a
compliment because I think you know I'm Yeah, I'm a
real person. You know, I'm an ordinary person. I got
an extraordinary job, I'm serving an extraordinary time. But I
am a you know, I'm a human being too. I've
got my shortcomings, I've I've got things I've learned along
the way, and there's something that that I can share
(05:26):
that might give help someone. That's really what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Why would you ever release a book during a presidential election.
It's got to be a very awkward time, especially now
with everybody talking about wanting Biden to step down, have
to be a very awquet time.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well, obviously, when you write a book, you have no
idea what is going to be happening by the time
that book comes out.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
You know it's gonna be a psidential election.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah, I did. I did, And that's why I wrote
it because I knew this was going to be heavy time.
I knew it was gonna be hard. You knew the
matchup was going to be Donald Trump and Joe Biden again,
and I thought, you know, people are going to want
some some encouragement, and that's what I what I try
to spread.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Did you did you speak Biden before his debate? Right,
because you talk about your previous debates and how you were,
you were loose, you were people looked at you as
an ordinary person. They felt relatable. But I think sometimes
people don't see that with Biden. Did you have those
conversations with him to be like, loosen up a little
bit or did you have those conversations any pep talks.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
I didn't, and you know, in retrospect, maybe you know
that was a missed opportunity on my part. I tell
the story in the book. You know, I was running
for governor the first time in two thousand and we
I've traveled all across the state. I was getting ready
for my first debate. Emily's List, you know, a great
organization that helps women candidates, sent a debate coach to
(06:39):
come talk with me. And the debate coach, I'm always
interested in learning more, how can I do better? He
it was a man, which kind of ironic, right, your
Emily's List, those organization sending a man and give me tips.
But you know, he gave me a lot of good,
good pointers. But one of the things he said was
the happy warrior wins every debate. Whoever looks like they're
(06:59):
having the most on is the winner, no matter what
people say. And I thought it was interesting. And his
tip was, you know, go in and remember to be
the happy warrior. So as soon as you get to
your podium, put a happy face on top of your papers.
And anyone who's ever been told to smile knows it
has the opposite effect. You tell me to smile, it
pisses me off. I'm not going to smile. So I'm like,
(07:19):
I'm never going to write a happy a smiley face
on the top. So I was thinking, what's going to
put me in the happy warrior frame of mind? So
a couple of weeks before the first debate, we went
to go see Kevin Hart at LCA in downtown Detroit
and he had a number of folks to open up
for him, and niam Lynn gave this great be this
great observation that women are a lot more bold today
(07:43):
back in the day. Yeah, back in the day. You know,
if a woman was menstruating, she'd be real shy about
talking about it. You say, come on, you know, I
want to come over and get together, and she'd say, oh,
you know, my aunt's in town. Like ant flow, right,
didn't want to say it, but just wanted to communicate it.
He said, today when you say I'm want to come
over and see you, and at that time a month
woman said you're not coming over. It's shark week, motherfucker.
(08:05):
And I thought that the funniest. I mean, I laughed
my butt off, and I thought that is going to
put me in the happy warrior mosent. No shark week, motherfucker,
let me go. So I went in and wrote that
at the top of my paper, s wm MF. And
that kept me loose and and funny. And my colleague
(08:28):
was all buttoned up and he said, oh, you know,
I'm Bill Shooty on duty. And I said, welcome to
Shark week, you know. And it just kept me loose
and happy. And I got caught on a hot mic
mouthing the word motherfucker. And it was during the Democratic
National Convention, and I was just off beside myself that
someone sent out that footage because it was virtual.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Like I always wonder how much prep is too much
prepp because I always say, the language of politics today,
so if that is how you talk, why can you
not communicate like that? Because that's how most of America.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Speaks I think you're right. I think you're right, and
so like my first and my initial reaction was, oh man,
this came out and it'll it'll.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You didn't say oh man, you said oh shit.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I did. Oh shit. I came out and you know,
this is what people are gonna focus on instead of
what I said. And it worked hard on that speech.
I wanted people to hear what I said, and I thought,
oh geez. But we embraced it. And you know what
people did too. People started showing up. They make candles
that say sharkly, motherfucker, They got t shirts, you know,
and I thought, you're right, this is how people talk.
(09:27):
It resonated with people and it turned out to be
a really funny episode. And that's maybe the lesson, Right,
you got to be the happy warrior.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Why do politicians try to be so perfect or try
to look so perfect? Right, the world is not perfect,
nobody's ever perfect, but it you try to be perfect
and then something comes out that shows that they're not.
Well yourself. You talk about everything in the book, from
your teeth to your debate to the drink, and so
people know, like she's just like me, Like she does
the things that I do. She's fed up just like me.
(09:54):
Why why is it that thing.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Of damn being perfect think that she's fed up just
like we've.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah, yeah, we're all real, right, and and some people
don't feel comfortable being real. One of the things I'm
cognizant of is, you know, the people that came before
me may be easier for me to show up as
I am, and I'm trying to make sure that I'm
at least doing that for the people that come after me. Women,
(10:26):
you know, candidates who aren't often in the majority, right,
black candidates, brown candidates, lgbt Q candidates, right, making space
for people to show up as they are because it's
those I think who lose touch with their humanity and
forget to see that and others that get the least
done that actually improve the quality people's lives, And theoretically
(10:47):
that's what anyone runs for office for in the first place.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
We have a chapter called take Nothing Personally, and that's
also one of the four agreements by domguil Reeth. How
hard is it to not take things personal? When you
are a public political figure, people are always talking about you. Yeah,
how hard is it to not take those things? For us?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Well, it's challenging, and I love that you raised the
poor agreements. I love that book. That's a book that
you know, I've often, I've read frequently, and I actually
just gave to all my two kids and my three
step sons for Christmas this last year. I gave it
to all of them. You know, it can be hard
to do because you know, the media trolls are twenty
four to seven NonStop. The people that will show up
(11:26):
and yell at you are feeling more emboldened than ever
to say whatever they want, whether it's grounded in fact
or not. And it can be challenging. But I think
that it's also a great lesson to know that when
people are lashing out, it's really not about you. It's
about them. When people say, you know, mean things about
you know, the dress that you wear at your state
(11:46):
of the state, or you know how you you know,
how you wear your hair, or whatever it is, it's
about them. It ain't about you and any energy you
put into it. I think it takes away from energy
you need to do real important stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
You talked about your head. Why didn't your grandma want
you to put your head on the.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Middle beats the hell out of me, and I said,
don't take that piece of advice, but work hard, wait
wait to get married a little later in life. But
I think those are are good pieces of advice.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, she gave you a three pieces of advice.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
What was it?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Don't don't put your head down in the middle, work hard,
work hard, and don't get married until at least twenty.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Eight Yeah, yes, yeah, I think those are good pieces
of advice.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
You did, you did? Did you follow them all?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
I did? You know I'm a hard worker. I know
that I'm raised in a state that you know, we're
full of people that are work hard. Michigan Anders got grit.
And I think that that's, you know, part of the title, right,
true grit, it's true gretch. But it's a playoff that
because I think grit is what really defines my philosophy
and who the people in Michigan are. We work hard,
(12:51):
we show up, we expect a fair shake, and I
think that's what has centered a lot of the work
that I do. And you know, like so many people,
I was lucky to have two great, phenomenal grandmothers who
really had a massive impact on my life. Nino, my
dad's mom, esther that's my middle name, Gretchenester. She was
(13:13):
you know, raised on a farm in rural Ohio. She
was at the age in her late nineties was lobbying
people in her church to vote for Barack Obama. She
was ahead of her time and in so many ways,
you know, strong feminist, and she taught me a lot.
But trying to find the good in every situation, in
(13:34):
every person was something that she imparted on us and
parted on us.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
And she.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Was the you know, one who said, even the meanest
personal world might have pretty eyes, try to find the good.
And that's something that you know I have found has
has been a real important lesson for me to have
in the back of my head through all the crazy
stuff that I've had.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
In an try, I was to say the same thing,
what's the good? And Donald Trump? You said, your grandmother said,
find me good in everybody?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Well, you know what, the one thing I can say
about Donald Trump is he can read a public sentiment.
He didn't know how to fix anything. He doesn't know
how to do the job of president. He treats people
with disrespect, and you know, he teaches people to hate.
And you know, there are a lot of downsides, But
he can read what's going on with people and he
can feed into it and feed off of it, and
(14:23):
I think that that's a talent. Does ease it for good?
Hell no, but but that is something that he does well.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
What made you want to get into politics? What was
the thing that says, this is what I want to do.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, it really was the first time around was you know,
I was practicing law. I had worked for the House
Democrats in Michigan. We had a tie in our state
House fifty five Democrats and fifty five Republicans when I
worked there, which was the only time it's ever happened
in Michigan, and they had to work together. And that's
when I cut my teeth in politics. I really got
to see maybe the best in what government can be.
(14:59):
And we have limits in Michigan. And it was like
so many women. It was someone else who called and said,
you know, your state rep can't run again. You should
take a look at it. I thought me, as you know,
I've always been active, but me as a candidate never
dawned on me. But I kind of looked at the
field of people. I thought, man, I can do as
good a job as any of these yahoo's. So I
decided to throw my hat in the race, and I've
(15:20):
won every election since. I've enjoyed public service immensely, but
I didn't think when I was done in the legislature,
I'd served six years in the House and then eight
years in the state Senate. I was a Senate minority leader,
and you know, the leader of twelve people in a
body of thirty eight. We get our teeth kaped every
damn day. And I thought, all right, I've done my
(15:40):
public service. But the Flint water crisis became known, and
just to refresh everyone's memory, you know, Flint is a
predominantly black city. It was a thriving city for many
decades when General Motors had a huge presence there. As
the company took resources out of Flint, you know, poverty grew,
(16:02):
and it was a city that didn't have a whole
lot of support in state government. And at a time
when budgets were tight, my predecessor appointed a emergency manager
who went in and made catastrophic decisions not to treat
the water, and the people in Flint got a lot
of lead poisoning in their water that became public and
(16:24):
that really was what drove me to want to run
for governor. The people Flint deserved better. They need a
governor who is going to make this right. And I
looked at who was talking about running. I thought, you
know what, I know how to do it. I'm gonna
get in this race. Donald Trump had just carried Michigan
eleven thousand vote difference between him and Hillary Clinton in sixteen,
(16:45):
and I thought, I gotta get organized. I got to
get all across the state. And I spent two years
campaigning in all eighty three counties. I showed up in
places Democrats right often, and I won. And so many
lessons from what happened around the Flint water crisis has
driven the work that I've done to try to make
it right, to ensure other communities don't have a catastrophe
(17:07):
like they had in Flint. And and we've made great strides.
I'm proud of the work that we've done, but there's
a lot more work to do.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Is the water fixed and Flint is it?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah? So almost every pipe has been replaced. The ones
that haven't, they had a hard time getting contact with
homeowners that maybe don't live there anymore. So, yes, the
water is clean. We've got We've expanded resources for nutrition
for Flint kids because we know to address lead poisoning
that that's a very crucial component. We just started what
(17:39):
we call our ex Kids, which is monetary support for
expectant mothers and babies. This is a you know, the
direct dollars into the household. That it was driven by
doctor Mona Hannah Atsha, who was the doctor that discovered
the lint the Flint lead crisis. So we've done a
lot of really creative things. We're continuing to invest in
(18:00):
Flint and crazy to say, but in Michigan we got
great public park system, great state park system. The only
county in Michigan that didn't have a state park was
Genesee County, which is where Flint is. We've created a
state park there, made great investment in downtown Flint so
that people can have the kind of amenities that they
expect everywhere else in the state.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Finally, you know, you've done some things in Michigan that
I want to highlight because I think they're great. When
you said some things like you once said, you declared
racism as a public health crisis. He required all medical
professionals to undergo unconscious bias training to improve healthcare and
target disparities. What motivated you to make that kind of declaration.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
But you know, I think during the pandemic we saw
laid bare the real true discrepancy and treatment and access
and information that is shared with and support for the
black community in particular. You know, my Lieutenant governor is
Michigan's first Black Lieutenant governor. Doctor Jonae Keldoone, who was
(19:01):
my chief medical executive during the Flint Water or during
the pandemic, is an African American emergency room doctor. She
was one of the first in the country to look
at the data what was coming in in the early
days of our COVID experience. You here in New York
were it was hot here, it was hot in New Orleans,
(19:21):
it was hot in Chicago, and it was hot in Detroit.
We had an incredible number of people that were suffering
from COVID, and it was disproportionately in the black community.
You know, we have in the early days of COVID
forty percent of the deaths in Michigan were African Americans.
Fourteen percent of our population is African American, and so
(19:42):
doctor j was the first one to see the early
data she was practicing in our emergency rooms. She saw
at firsthand and she said, this is disproportionately hit in
my community. We got to have a targeted approach here,
and so we created the Racial Disparities Task Force. We
did specific outreach to the black community. We spent a
(20:02):
lot of money and resources making sure that people had
access and had solid information. We drove those death numbers
way down because of it. I'm telling you, I don't
know that we would have been nearly as successful. It
wasn't the fact that we had an empowered black woman
with the medical experience and the hands on experience in
downtown Detroit to really drive that policy. And that's why
(20:24):
I'm always telling people, you know, diversity matters. Empowered representation.
That was key. It's not enough to have, you know,
a proportion of voices around the table if you're not
listening to them and if they don't feel empowered to
really drive the plan. And you know, most scientists are
not skilled communicators like Joan A. Kaldunez. I was real
(20:45):
fortunate to have someone that had both those skills. She
was by my side in every press conference and designing
the policy in Michigan. And you know, declaring racism of
public health crisis, making sure that our racial disparities work
wasn't confined into a pandemic because it existed before the
pandemic and obviously can exist to this day. But I
think we're making strides on it, and she and the
(21:07):
Lieutenant Governor have been key leaders in that effort in Michigan.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Is the unconscious bias training is something that's going to
transcend past healthcare because I feel like that should be
in law enforcement, that should be in the banking system.
I feel like that should be in schooling. I feel
like that should be in so many different spaces.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Absolutely, we require all state employees to go through it.
So whether you're working with people in the healthcare space
or in law enforcement or anywhere for that matter, it's
important to recognize we all bring bias like we are
lived where human beings with lived experiences that informed how
we act. If we're cognizant of it, we can do better.
(21:45):
But if we're not talking about it, not thinking about it,
not examining it, we aren't going to change anything. And
so that training, I think is really important. I went
through the training just like everyone on my staff and
throughout state government did, and I think more workplaces should
require it because it's just an honest assessment of who
we are and it's how we grow. And I like
to think most people want to do better, but we
(22:07):
can't expect them to do better if they don't know better.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
That's right, And it's another thing that you do to
I like and Governor Shapiro has a version of it
in Pennsylvania. But it's the Clean Slate Bill and the
Clean Slate for Kids that that you signed. What is
that about.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
I'll tell you one of the things. One of the
days that if you need no I'm good, I'm good.
But one of the days that I think will live
with me for the rest of my life was, you know,
we changed the laws in Michigan so that people can
get their records xpunch. We made sure that people that were,
you know, sentenced and did time for marijuana offenses don't
(22:43):
have that on their record anymore. It's not legal in Michigan,
so you shouldn't have to carry that with you. And
so we had a huge expungement fair in Flint. Actually
we're talking a lot about Flint today, but this was
in Flint, and the Lieutenant Governor and I were there.
The Secretary of State was helping people get registered to vote.
There's a common misconception that if you have a record,
(23:04):
you can't vote. Well, you sure as can. And we
register people when they're leaving prison now to make sure
that they are voting. And the Attorney General was there
so we can help people with paperwork to get all
the records expunged. We had a thousand people show up
before eight o'clock in the morning who were excited about
this giving them an opportunity to get into a better
job because of this old thing on the record was
(23:25):
keeping them from getting gainfully employed or get housing. And
so we've made we've made big strides. There's always more
work to do, but our bail reform, you're not sitting
in jail because you don't have someone in your pocket
for a you know, a civil infraction. We've we've made
a lot of great policy changes and we've helped a
lot of people, you know, get another opportunity, which is
(23:48):
everyone deserves that.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Why are people going further on the marijuana thing? Like
I saw I read that you were considering pardoning a
lot of non violent marijuana offenders. We saw what Wes more.
Just did you know in Maryland when it comes to
misdemeana convictions, weed is legal in Michigan, So it seems
like a no brain that had just pardoned all non
violent marijuana offenders.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Absolutely, Yeah, it's it's every state has a little different
requirements to get it done. So, Wes, did you know
a wonderful thing. I was really happy to see am
use those powers. I don't have those kind of sweeping powers.
So we've done it. We've gone through and done it.
You know, so many cases we've been able to move through,
but we can't do it end mass like that. Unfortunately,
(24:27):
who the power? It just depends on the state. You know,
different states have different executive authorities and powers.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I saw you say that governors are a competitive bunch. Yeah,
and you talked about Governor Newsom in the book. Like
what did you mean by that? Because then and the
reference the example you used with something in regard to
social distance, and I don't want to tell the whole story,
but yeah, like, what did you mean y'all a competitive book?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Oh? No, you know, I think governors are the best
salespeople for their states. I got to see Jay Insley
talk about how great the state of Washington. Is when
I was running for governor, I thought, oh, yeah, this
is gonna be the job is. I'm going to be
the promoter of all of Michigan for the world. Right,
So we're we are a competitive bunch, you know. In
the book, I talk a little bit about, you know,
some ways that you know, we're all human, right, and
(25:13):
when we make a mistake, we should own it. And
I was praising Gavin Newsom for owning a mistake that
he'd made. I'd made a very similar one, and so
that was an example. You know. I think Newsom is
a phenomenal leader. I think we're really lucky that we
got so many great Democratic leaders across this country. Right now.
We talked a little bit about Wes Moore. I know
(25:33):
you had Josh Shapiro in here recently. He's fantastic, more
a heally from Massachusetts. I mean, we got leaders all
across the state. Tim Walls from Minnesota. He swears even
more than we do, so you should have. But you know,
it's a it's a really incredible bunch of people. And
I've learned so much from my colleagues, and we've helped
(25:54):
one another, and and I think you know, there's a
real great crop of leaders right now.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Now, let me ask a question. I know you had
it to promote your book, but I wanted to ask
you a question. A lot of people are not necessarily
confident in Joe Biden right now. They don't know if
they should go out and vote at all. Maybe they're
looking people are thinking right now, maybe it's the lesser
of two evils. What do you say to those individuals
that are not a thousand percent confident and Biden. Maybe
(26:19):
think Biden is too old, maybe think that he doesn't
has early signs of dementia.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
What do you say to those people?
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Well, I'll start with us. You know, we all watch
that debate and you know it was bad. I mean
that's an understatement.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
It was.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
It was really bad, horrible, and it shook a lot
of people. And people are asking questions. And you know what,
I don't have a problem with that. You should ask questions.
You should demand that your leaders are up to the job.
I believe that Joe Biden is. And I tell you
I went to the White House with a number of
my colleagues, Gavin and Josh included and West as well,
and we had to sit down with the president. There's
(26:55):
no question in my mind that he's ready to take
this on. I had a conversation with him all of
our co chairs last weekend, same thing. He's a fighter,
he's ready to go. He had a bad night, He'll
be the first to admit it. It was terrible. Yet
here we are. We've got a choice between an affirmative
vote for Joe Biden or anything else is a vote
for Donald Trump, and a second Trump presidency will be devastating.
(27:19):
Second Trump presidency will take us further down the line
of taking away individual rights of a worse and more
intelerant nation with bigger discrepancies and income. I think that
it's a dangerous prospect. Joe Biden wants to continue the
work he's made record investments in on shoring, manufacturing, and
(27:41):
the growth that we're seeing in our supply chains. We're stronger,
We're getting stronger every day. That all can be undone.
We got a president who's going to fight for every
one of us black community, the brown community, women, and
our rights. I think that he's got a record of
doing that and he's going to continue to do it
for the next four years. And that's why I'm on
wavering in my support of Joe Biden Kamala Harris. I
(28:03):
think that they are great leaders who are fortunate to
have them. They've got the receipts and they got a
plan for the next four years. The other guy represents
a real, clear and present danger. You know.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Chapter four is surround yourself with great people. Don't be
afraid to ask for help. You know, when you think
about the sarrogance, like yourself, the wes Moores, Governor, Shapiro's
vice president. I rock with all of them. Right. Is
President Biden the kind of leader that will ask y'all
for help? Yes?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
And you know what I think. Another thing to remember
is during the Trump years, remember his cabinet, it was
a bunch of cronies and crooks. These are people that were,
you know, I think, not experts in the fields in
which they were hired. I can talk about the Department
Education because Betsy Deboss is from Michigan. Biden, on the
other hand, has got a diverse cabinet that is incredibly
(28:53):
skilled that he leans on. You got Gina Rimondo and
Pete boota judge, and Tom vill said, he's got Cedric Richmond,
you know, very much a big part of of his operation,
and obviously the vice president. He surrounds himself with quality
people who are doing the work and showing up and
actually care about the American people. And I think that's
a real fundamental difference here. So yeah, he does listen,
(29:18):
He asks questions. He says, you know, give me some advice.
And you know, we've been pretty pretty frank, had some
pretty frank conversations about giving some some input.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You think he's the Secretary of p too, because he
comes to the base, comes some time all the time.
And I often feel like y'all should be offended. And
the reason I say y'all should be offended because people
will say, is this the best America has to offer?
Is this the best the Democratic Party has to offer?
In Biden? And it does kind of like, you know,
make yourself and the the Wes Moorees and the Shapiros
(29:48):
and the Buddhajas and the VP look like damn aren't
they're they're all better to me than you know, the
current leader of the of the party.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Well, all these people you're gonna we're gonna to see
do incredible things for the short term and the long term.
So we're fortunate that one. You know, I understand that sentiment.
And you know, I got kids, they're twenty two and
twenty and they're you know, they're not as excited as I,
you know, would love for them to be. And yet
I know they're going to vote because they understand their
(30:20):
rights to make their own decisions about their bodies, their
ability to get housing after they graduate from college and
try to get you know, an affordable place to live
that is on their minds. Their ability to you know,
live a long life in a climate that can sustain humanity. Right.
Gun violence. This generation has grown up doing mass shooting drills.
(30:42):
We can't even we can't even appreciate what kind of
trauma that's inflicted on this generation. They are engaged in
a way that we weren't, and so the fact that
there may be don't Joe Biden doesn't resonate as well
with every one of you know, every voter that's out there.
I think that every voter can see a voice, a
person that is a part of this effort that does though,
(31:04):
and I think that that kind of Avenger style campaign
and leadership has got to be a part of how
we go forward.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I've been saying that I don't want it. I would
rather see his sarrogates out there.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Do you want to see him debate again? Do you
think he should debate again?
Speaker 3 (31:16):
I don't know, you know, I it doesn't seem as
though people go into debates with open minds these days.
I do agree with you that, you know, having surrogates
out there is powerful and incredibly helpful. And I know,
you know, a lot of my colleagues and standard bears
for the party are going to be descending into Michigan.
(31:38):
And I'm excited about that because I want people to see,
you know, I want people to get to know, you know,
all of all of these leaders that are doing the
work and that are part of the work that President
Biden has gotten done. I want them to hear from
them too.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
But why lie to American people? And what I mean
by that is, like, you know, Joe Stephanopolis just got
caught saying he doesn't feel like he can serve another
for is President Biden. So even if that is people's
you know, sentiment, why not say, hey, this is why
you still vote for him? Like, why can't we have
(32:11):
that conversation?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, you know, I was not happy to see those comments, obviously,
I disagree with George, and I have a great deal
of respect for him, but I disagree with him, And
you know, I challenge anyone who's out there opining about
someone's health. Oh my lord, we've spent two weeks litigating
the ninety minutes, the bad ninety minutes of Joe Biden,
(32:35):
and not enough time litigating the four horrific years of
Donald Trump. Let's be clear, this is a choice between
two people. Yes, there are some third party candidates, but
you vote for one of them that is helping Donald Trump.
And so anything short of an affirmative vote for Biden
is a vote for Trump. And I think whether it's
because you're appalled at that possibility, or you're confident and
(32:59):
have faith in in President Biden and Kamala Harris. And
let's be clear, that's why we have a team. In
case one person can't do the job, you got to
back up. That's what the vice presidency is all about.
And she's incredibly capable. This is not the time to
keep bringing our hands. We got to roll up our
sleeves because we got a lot of work to do.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
You think people should challenge him at the convention coming up?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yes, I don't.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
I don't. You know, I respect that there are different opinions,
but I don't. I think right now we know what
the matchup is.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
We keep asking for it. What last year he said
there's about fifty other Democrats who could beat Trump. Last
week he goes, you know, hey, conn Yeah, he's asking
for it.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Well, I'm glad to see him show a little swagger, frankly,
but by the same token. You know, this isn't fantasy football.
We are beyond the primaries and we are beyond the caucuses.
The matchup is set, and the only person that changes
that matchup is Joe Biden. He's made his decision, he's
communicated it.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
So let's go you know, just about mission. Because it's
a huge battleground state. Over one hundred thousand primary voters
cast uncommitted votes back in February because of the Bidens
administration's funding of the Israel military and the war on Palestine.
Does that concern you about how Michigan will turn out
in November?
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Yeah, of course it does. You know, the great story
of Michigan is that we are the place people came
to from around the world for opportunity, and because of that,
we got a richly diverse population, right People came from
the South for a job on the line. People came
from Lebanon for a job on the line. People came
from Holland for a job in you know, the muckfields
(34:36):
on the west side of the state, or from Finland
for a job in mining in the Upper Peninsula. I mean,
we're a very diverse state and it's a great strength.
It also is made up of communities. All of these
communities that I've been able to count on as a
part of the coalition that's always supported my candidacy for office,
and I'm grateful for that. Everyone's hurting right now. That's
(34:57):
the only universal truth. You know. Our Jewish community is
in pain. We've seen the rise of anti Semitism, the
horrors of October seventh, the hostages that still haven't been released,
my Arab American and Muslim community, and Palestinian community, and
it's important to single them all out because it's not monolithic.
(35:18):
They are different communities within within one larger community. They're
hurting because they see the loss of innocent lives every
single day playing out. There's so many people in Michigan
that are one degree or two degrees of separation from
someone who's lost their life in this altercation or someone
(35:38):
who's starving right now. And so I think part of
the one of the lessons in my book is about
the power of listening. We got to show up and listen.
We've got to show people that we care. Staying close
to my Arab American community, staying close with my Jewish community,
(35:58):
it is really important. And recognizing the pain that everyone's
feeling is as well. But I also want to be
clear that Donald Trump presidency eight sure is hell ain't
going to fix what's going on in the Middle East.
I mean it could measurably make it worse. You hear
some of the crazy things that he has said, some
of what his supporters have said. You think we want
(36:19):
a two state solution where we everyone can have a
safe homeland. That's not something that he's promoting. And I
think it will make it measurably worse. And that's why,
you know, I understand the pain and that people are
feeling checked out and unheard. That's why the listening part
is so important. That's why I say listening is a
superpower in my book, and I think that's something that
(36:41):
Biden does better than Trump does. He's an empathetic guy
who actually cares about people.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
What would your message be to the Muslim Arab community
in Michigan in regard to the supporting President Biden come November.
Because you know, fifty thousand, you know, innocent people killed.
It is tough to see.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Oh, yeah, no, it's it's horrific.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Women and children.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, man too. You know, I know everyone posts the
women and children, but there are a lot of isn't
men's who've lost their lives too. I mean, it is horrific.
And yet if we want to have a leader of
the free world who sees that, who cares about leading
for a two state solution, who's never going to campaign
(37:20):
on like a Muslim band or child separation at the
border for Brown families coming into this country. I mean
that's Joe Biden. There's no question who the better leader
is on all of these issues, and it's Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
You know, chapter nine, you talk about owning your screw
ups and forgiving others for theirs, And I read where
you wanted to actually meet with someone from the far
right militia that applotted the kidnap and assassinate you. Yeah,
I don't know if my forgiveness works, then wouldn't want
to have that conversation was, well.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
You know you hope to gain When I wrote that,
I didn't know it would get such strong reaction, but
it has, so you're in the majority.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
I could and you know you can kill you.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
What do you hope to gain from?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
There were twelve to fourteen guys who were out there
planning for months to kidnap and then hold a sham
trial and execute me. That was their plan, and they
had a kill house. They went through all these exercises
to practice that. Text messages are horrific. Fortunately, law enforcement,
you know, had infiltrated, they had an informer, and they
(38:25):
were able to keep it from happening, and I'm grateful
for that.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Did they tell you early on that this was happening?
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Did you know through the whole process or not through
the whole process? But I knew a few months before
it became public. The head of my security details sat
down with me. I talked a little bit about it
in the book and shared it with me, and someone was,
you know, give me a hard time because they said, oh,
you know the way you told your kids. He said, oh,
by the way, there's a plot to kidnap and kill me.
But it's okay, We're going to be fine, you know,
(38:50):
Like I said, it like that and very I don't know,
practical or strange, but whatever, you know, I want to
understand what happened. It is not a rational thing that
you pick up guns and want to assassinate a sitting
governor because she told you wear a mask. That's not rational.
That did not happen all over the country. It happened
in this unique circumstances. Why I would like to understand.
(39:13):
So I'd love to, you know, have the chance to
sit down maybe with one of the people that cooperated
with the government and testified against their fellow plotters.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
That's fine.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Well, I'm grateful that there were a couple of snitches,
you know, like to just sit down and ask, you know,
what was going on here and show I'm a human being.
You know, I'm a normal person. I'm doing. I'm an
ordinary person, an extraordinary job serving in a crazy time.
But I'd like to understand and if I can learn
something that will make me a better human or a
(39:45):
better governor than it's worth doing.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Have you forgiven them yet?
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Really? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
How does the forgiveness thing work in regard to like
politicians like can you can you forgive Trump for leading
an attempted cooled his country? Can you give the Supreme
Court for a boxing Roe v. Wade? Like that is
the forgiveness work that way too? Well?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
I think if if you own it, yeah, I think
if you say you know, you have, you have learned,
or you regret, then yeah, I think it is you
can forgive if.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
You're fighting actively against it.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Though, well he hasn't owned it, and he hasn't you know,
they're trying to spin it as though it was a
harmless group of tourists. They're trying to spend as you know,
the people that were tearing down our capital and we're,
you know, are the reason that people officers have lost
their lives. Were patriots doing this. That's what they're trying
(40:39):
to tell us, Like, don't believe you're lying eyes you know,
we this was a peaceful group Bologney, And so I
don't forgive that. I'm mad about that still because that
was a horrific thing to see. I sat there with
my daughters watching this play out in the United States
Capitol and everyone was so shocked. And I thought, if
you're shocked, you weren't paying attention to what was going on.
In Michigan. We saw the early signs of this with
(41:02):
people showing up with guns, standing over our legislature and
sitting outside my house with AR fifteen. It's threatening to
kill me. I mean, this is a part of the
rhetoric that Donald Trump has made so common and the
reaction that is predictable because of what he's done. And
he's showed no remorse for that, not even an understanding
of how serious that was. And that's why I think
(41:24):
you see so many people who used to call themselves
Republicans are looking at him, going I can't do it.
But there still are a lot of people are going
to support him. And I don't forgive him for that.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Do you think it's because you're a woman, Because there
are a lot of governance that said you have to
wear masks. There's a lot of people that came out
and said that you have to wear masks, But none
of them I can recall, had plots on their life
for kidnapping and killing.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Yeah, well you know I was. I convened a group
of governors during COVID to kind of share what we
were seeing help one another when we could. It was
the Midwest governors. Tim Wallas from Minnesota, Tony Evers from Wisconsin,
Baby Pritzker from Illinois, Eric Holcombe from Indiana Republican, Mike
DeWine from Ohio also Republican, and Andy Basher from Kentucky.
(42:08):
Good friend and another great talent. All of them are.
I think all the Democratic governors are fantastic. And we
were chatting about, you know, everything that was playing out,
and one of my colleagues said, you know, Gretchen, you're
doing all the same things that we're doing, but why
are you taking so much more heat for it? And
when the last word landed he went, he said, oh wait,
(42:29):
don't answer that. I know it's because you are the
woman doing it, and so I'm not the one who
raises Okay, I'm dealing with this because I'm a woman,
but I appreciate when someone else points it out because
I do think that that's a part of it. I
don't want that woman telling me what to do. And
you know, we didn't have a black governor during the pandemic.
I don't know the extra kind of heat that a
(42:52):
black governor would have confronted, but I know that the
women governors did deal with a whole higher intensity of
hate that came.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Oh I agree with you because you know, you know,
even when your name comes up as you know, being
a presidential candidate. You know, I always say, man, I
think that this country in a lot of ways is
more sexist and racist. I don't know if they would
vote as qualified as you are.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Right, Huh we seen Hillary.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
That's my point, Like, I don't know if they would.
It's the same reason that they're so afraid of Vice
President Harris. Like when people when you hear people say, oh,
you should be scared of a you know, president Harris.
You know, uh, you should be scared of a president
Harris run. And I'm like, why what would our policies
wouldn't be any different than any other Democrats, So what
would be make them afraid other than her being a
woman and a woman of color.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, I mean that that. I think you're making an
important point. You know. I was kind of marveling watching
the news this morning. Nikki Haley was taking a shot
at Kamala Harris, and you know, it just really struck
me that these are two women of Indian descent, you know,
and she's saying things like Kamala Harris would be dangerous,
you know, and it's just it's it's galling to me
(44:01):
to watch that play out. I was hopeful, you know,
I thought she was somewhat of a voice of reason
in that primary, and yet you know, she's just thrown
her a lot in and with the team that she
was so critical of over the last year and a
half and attacking Kamala Harrison. I just I don't know.
It's just maybe that's why we haven't had a woman
president yet, because because you see.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Stuff like that playout, do you think you could be
the first?
Speaker 3 (44:25):
I don't have any plans to run for anything after
this term as governor. It's it's certainly a compliment to
be included in the list of people whose names come
up all the time. But you know, I got a
big job right now. I got two and a half
more years to be governor of Michigan. I got a
lot more that I want to get accomplished, and I'm
not thinking of anything beyond that.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
You could write shock, shock, blood, motherfuck shop, motherfucker on
the paper and then you know you can go for it.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
Did you hear g Matcash a song about you, Big
rich oh Man, I love Gmtcash. He sent me an
email yesterday he said, good luck on gm A. I'm
rooting for you, bestie. So yeah, that is we're not
best friends, but I like to think that we're very good.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Friends when you hear the record and who put you
onto it?
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Okay, So first, it started with the nickname Big Gretch,
Big Gretch. So you know, first of all, I'm named
after my two grandmas, Gretchen and Esther. They're both in
the book. But Grandma Gretchen always said, don't ever let
anyone call you gretch. Your name is Gretchen. So I've
always had an aversion to being called gretch. I don't
(45:26):
know many women that want big in the front of
their nickname. Am I right?
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Big? What depends? You know? If you heavy said, we
say you got a big bag, but big can mean
like position as well.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Yeah. Well it's it's all good now. But you know,
when I first heard the name big Gretch, I'm like,
oh Lord, what what is happening here? And Shaquille Meyer,
someone on my on my team at the time from Detroit,
was like, oh no, you don't understand the people of
Detroit have accepted you. Big Gretch is a compliment. It
is given with love. And I was like, all right,
tell me more. And then in Detroit, a symbol of
(45:59):
success is buffs. So the Buffalo, Cardier.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Sunglasses, buff glasses.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Yep, yeah, so you got to have the buffs. So
but when I don't own buffs, I mean I don't
have that kind of money, and I don't trust myself
with expensive sunglasses. But they they present you with buffs
like it's they don't literally present you with buffs, but
it's you know, a saying. And so it was like, okay,
I'm presented with buffs? What the hell are buff shequilla?
So she's educating me. But then Gmac made it into
(46:25):
a into the rap song and I just love it.
I think Big Grutch has become this this nickname I
never knew that I needed. It was given to me.
Trump was kicking my butt, he was making my life miserable.
I was getting all sorts of threats and ugliness. And
this happened at a time where I really, you know,
appreciated the boost. And everywhere I go, especially in Detroit,
(46:46):
I'm Big Gretch.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
So Big Gretch Gravity Gretsch. Which one do you like?
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Big Gretch is my favorite.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yes, Big grts has to go.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Okay, I got one more question, well too, you could
actually get the buff glasses now because the Supreme Court
made it to where you can get bribes. You can
have the money for me. But why aren't people saying
the Supreme Court is no longer a legitimate institution. Why
aren't folks calling them out for their corruption?
Speaker 3 (47:09):
I am, you know, and I was glad to see
Sheldon Whitehouse and a letter to Merrick Garland. I don't
know if he's going to do anything about it, but
I hope he does because it is so depressing and
sad to me. You know, I'm a lawyer. I was
raised by you know, two public servants who also were lawyers, though,
and who revered the judicial system, that it was the
(47:30):
check on government, that it was above the politics of
the day. We saw that over the years, where decisions
came out even if you didn't agree with him, you
respected him because they were grounded in some you know,
interpretation of the constitution, not a political agenda. And yet
what we've seen now Trump remade the Supreme Court three
(47:51):
appointees who lied to Congress about roeb Wade and went
on and just eviscerated women's reproductive freedom. That is on
this ballot a majority now who has said that a
president has you know, this vast immunity now that the
law didn't apply to the person who is who we
elect as our president. It is scary, and they are is.
(48:11):
It is terribly frustrating to have all the presumptions I
was raised to believe that you could count on that
court thrown into the garbage in a dumpster. And it's
it's a real problem, and I'm glad to see. You know,
some folks in Congress are taking it seriously, but man,
we need a better mechanism to hold them accountable.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
You still think it's a legitimate institution, the Supreme Court.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
I think that they have bastardized it. I hate to
say it.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
You shouldn't, It's the truth.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Yeah, I hate the fact of it. You know, we
deserve better, and those justices took an oath then. Man,
it's just horrible to see that not even they're holding
it up.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
So Biden needs to expand the courts.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Right Well, I'm not going to tell the President what
to do, but we do need a system that is
actually accountable to the people, and it has to abide
by a certain ethic standard and is brained in by
you know, the law.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
If you were president, would you explained Supreme Court?
Speaker 3 (49:06):
I haven't. It's a good question. I don't know that
I've got a thoughtful answer for you. Yet the answers
should be the answers aren't running for president. So there.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
All right.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Last question, when you see people from Michigan at Detroit,
do you agree them with?
Speaker 2 (49:21):
What upde?
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Yeah? Absolutely, That's that's how we agreet one another. What
updo you know? I gotta tell you Detroit hosted the
NFL Draft yep, and man, it was the most fun event.
Detroit's population has grown for the first time in seventy years.
We had a record draft turnout, and then we had
the Grand Prix the next week, and then the opening
of Detroit Michigan Central Station, the old train station that
(49:46):
Bill Ford, you know, decided to plow a bunch of
resources into and now it's like this hub of R
and D and it's exciting time. We had, you know,
eminem produced a big party at the opening. I mean,
there's so much good stuff happening in Detroit and all
across Michigan. And so yeah, what up dough to the
listeners from Detroit forty two.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Doug is here, so you'll be able to say that
to him. You'll surly seeming in the whole. All right. Well,
it's the Governor Gretchen movie. Thank you so much, Governor
of Michigan. Pleasure make sure you go get her a
new book, true Gretch, what I've learned about life, leadership
and everything in between it. And don't be a stranger. Please.
We were on a lot of stations in U Misschchigan.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
I know I'll come back, please do all right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake that ass.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Up in the morning. The Breakfast Club
Wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The breakfast Club Morning.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Everybody in is DJ n V Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy.
We are to breakfast Club. We got a special guest
in the building. Yes, indeed we have the Governor, Gretchen Whitmer.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Welcome, Thank you, I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
How are you feeling. I'm feeling good, feeling good? Would
you like some tequila this morning? Are the two early?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
You know, I don't good. Tequila's fine any time of day,
but I'm not going to start my day all that
way today.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I don't know if she wants because she can't keep
it down. Since has that stuck with you your whole life?
Like that one story and everybody always talks about that
one thing.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Well, you know, obviously what you're talking about is or
I drank too much when I was in high school
and you should have been drinking that at that young
age anyway. But I got caught drinking at a high
school football game. I was passed out. My principal came
upon me and I tossed my cookies on him, and uh,
you know, it was kind of a notorious thing at
the time. Everyone in school knew what happened. I got suspended,
(00:59):
I got in big trouble. My mother wanted to kill me.
But you know, I tell that story in my book
because it was that moment where I screwed up. But
I learned a lot and got my act together started,
you know, taking my academics more seriously. I had to
because I was at home for a month grounded. But
I'm sure, yeah, we learned when we screw up. If
(01:22):
you're if you're a person who evolves and you've learned
from it, then screw ups have value, right, So got
my act together, went to MSU, got into law school,
and learned kind of a lesson that if you surround
yourself by great people, it helps you achieve what you
want to. You learn from smart people, and that's kind
of been a philosophy of my life, but also how
(01:44):
I've governed. And in the story, you know, in the book,
True Gretcha, I talk a lot about people like doctor
Joan A. Kalduton, who was my chief medical executive during COVID,
and I'm proud, you know, we've got one of the
most diverse cabinets in state history in Michigan. And when
you empower people and have real representation, empowered representation, you
(02:05):
can get a lot of good stuff done. And I
think that drinking story was maybe the beginning of my
learning that when you to surround yourself by good people.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
As a mom, what do you tell your kids?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Right?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Because your kids are going to make mistakes. Right, you
have two daughters, and all I would say if I
was your daughter's mom, what about you in high school?
So what do you tell your kids?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Well, that's why I didn't tell them till after they
were out of high school. But you know, you know,
I mean, we're all human, and we got to see
the humanity in one another. We all fall short on occasion.
We got to hope that you learn from from those times.
And I think that's what I've tried to instill in
my own kids. They've made their own mistakes. But you
know what, Fortunately for my generation, we didn't all have
(02:47):
cell phones, we weren't all recording as it wasn't something
that you had a receipt that you had to carry
with you the rest of your life. And that's one
of the things I tried to encourage my kids to,
you know, give other people grace, give yourself a little grace,
and put that damn phone down.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Only had two more questions about that topic. Number one,
what was you drinking as a teenager? Right? And did
you get suspended for actually drinking or throwing up on
the principal vodka?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
It was vodka, it was easier to come by, and
the you know, I gouts suspended for drinking, okay, but
I'm sure throwing up didn't help my cause.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I also like, did you kept your book true gritch
what I've learned about life, leadership and everything between. I
like that you kept it short and it's the easy read.
Did you do that on purpose? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
You know, Charlamagne, one of the things that I get
asked the most, whether I'm traveling across Michigan or outside
of Michigan, is how do I stay positive? You know?
I ran for reelection and a lot of people said,
why do you want to keep doing this? You know,
on my first term, I dealt with a pandemic, a
president who targeted me, plot to kidney and kill me,
(03:52):
twenty eight recall attempts, dealt with flooding in Midland that
wiped out dams and bridges way to ten thousand people
in the middle of the night in the middle of
a pandemic, dealt with all the hate that that came
my way, and it was an understandable question, you know,
rational people said, why do you want to keep doing this?
(04:12):
And so this book really is that. It is kind
of a handbook ten things I've learned in my life
at different times in my life that I have used
in situation that I've had to navigate as governor. And
you know, I want to give people maybe you can
get a laugh at my expense about the drinking or
knocking my teeth out. I talk about that in the
(04:32):
book too. Maybe there's a lesson that will give someone
some inspiration when they're navigating a hard time, whether it's
in the workplace or in their private life, or maybe
it's just a little light reading. And what I know
is a heavy time for a lot of folks, all
of us, right, And so that's really what it's about,
trying to put a little light out in the world
in a damn dark time.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
It feels like a Judy Bloom book in a way.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
I don't know what that means yet.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I'm a huge It just feels like a adult, adult
Judy Bloom book.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah, that's nice. That's a I'll take that as a
compliment because I think you know I'm Yeah, I'm a
real person. You know, I'm an ordinary person. I got
an extraordinary job, I'm serving an extraordinary time. But I
am a you know, I'm a human being too. I've
got my shortcomings, I've I've got things I've learned along
the way, and there's something that that I can share
(05:26):
that might give help someone. That's really what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Why would you ever release a book during a presidential election.
It's got to be a very awkward time, especially now
with everybody talking about wanting Biden to step down, have
to be a very awquet time.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well, obviously, when you write a book, you have no
idea what is going to be happening by the time
that book comes out.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
You know it's gonna be a psidential election.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah, I did. I did, And that's why I wrote
it because I knew this was going to be heavy time.
I knew it was gonna be hard. You knew the
matchup was going to be Donald Trump and Joe Biden again,
and I thought, you know, people are going to want
some some encouragement, and that's what I what I try
to spread.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Did you did you speak Biden before his debate? Right,
because you talk about your previous debates and how you were,
you were loose, you were people looked at you as
an ordinary person. They felt relatable. But I think sometimes
people don't see that with Biden. Did you have those
conversations with him to be like, loosen up a little
bit or did you have those conversations any pep talks.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
I didn't, and you know, in retrospect, maybe you know
that was a missed opportunity on my part. I tell
the story in the book. You know, I was running
for governor the first time in two thousand and we
I've traveled all across the state. I was getting ready
for my first debate. Emily's List, you know, a great
organization that helps women candidates, sent a debate coach to
(06:39):
come talk with me. And the debate coach, I'm always
interested in learning more, how can I do better? He
it was a man, which kind of ironic, right, your
Emily's List, those organization sending a man and give me tips.
But you know, he gave me a lot of good,
good pointers. But one of the things he said was
the happy warrior wins every debate. Whoever looks like they're
(06:59):
having the most on is the winner, no matter what
people say. And I thought it was interesting. And his
tip was, you know, go in and remember to be
the happy warrior. So as soon as you get to
your podium, put a happy face on top of your papers.
And anyone who's ever been told to smile knows it
has the opposite effect. You tell me to smile, it
pisses me off. I'm not going to smile. So I'm like,
(07:19):
I'm never going to write a happy a smiley face
on the top. So I was thinking, what's going to
put me in the happy warrior frame of mind? So
a couple of weeks before the first debate, we went
to go see Kevin Hart at LCA in downtown Detroit
and he had a number of folks to open up
for him, and niam Lynn gave this great be this
great observation that women are a lot more bold today
(07:43):
back in the day. Yeah, back in the day. You know,
if a woman was menstruating, she'd be real shy about
talking about it. You say, come on, you know, I
want to come over and get together, and she'd say, oh,
you know, my aunt's in town. Like ant flow, right,
didn't want to say it, but just wanted to communicate it.
He said, today when you say I'm want to come
over and see you, and at that time a month
woman said you're not coming over. It's shark week, motherfucker.
(08:05):
And I thought that the funniest. I mean, I laughed
my butt off, and I thought that is going to
put me in the happy warrior mosent. No shark week, motherfucker,
let me go. So I went in and wrote that
at the top of my paper, s wm MF. And
that kept me loose and and funny. And my colleague
(08:28):
was all buttoned up and he said, oh, you know,
I'm Bill Shooty on duty. And I said, welcome to
Shark week, you know. And it just kept me loose
and happy. And I got caught on a hot mic
mouthing the word motherfucker. And it was during the Democratic
National Convention, and I was just off beside myself that
someone sent out that footage because it was virtual.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Like I always wonder how much prep is too much
prepp because I always say, the language of politics today,
so if that is how you talk, why can you
not communicate like that? Because that's how most of America.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Speaks I think you're right. I think you're right, and
so like my first and my initial reaction was, oh man,
this came out and it'll it'll.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You didn't say oh man, you said oh shit.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I did. Oh shit. I came out and you know,
this is what people are gonna focus on instead of
what I said. And it worked hard on that speech.
I wanted people to hear what I said, and I thought,
oh geez. But we embraced it. And you know what
people did too. People started showing up. They make candles
that say sharkly, motherfucker, They got t shirts, you know,
and I thought, you're right, this is how people talk.
(09:27):
It resonated with people and it turned out to be
a really funny episode. And that's maybe the lesson, Right,
you got to be the happy warrior.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Why do politicians try to be so perfect or try
to look so perfect? Right, the world is not perfect,
nobody's ever perfect, but it you try to be perfect
and then something comes out that shows that they're not.
Well yourself. You talk about everything in the book, from
your teeth to your debate to the drink, and so
people know, like she's just like me, Like she does
the things that I do. She's fed up just like me.
(09:54):
Why why is it that thing.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Of damn being perfect think that she's fed up just
like we've.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah, yeah, we're all real, right, and and some people
don't feel comfortable being real. One of the things I'm
cognizant of is, you know, the people that came before
me may be easier for me to show up as
I am, and I'm trying to make sure that I'm
at least doing that for the people that come after me. Women,
(10:26):
you know, candidates who aren't often in the majority, right,
black candidates, brown candidates, lgbt Q candidates, right, making space
for people to show up as they are because it's
those I think who lose touch with their humanity and
forget to see that and others that get the least
done that actually improve the quality people's lives, And theoretically
(10:47):
that's what anyone runs for office for in the first place.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
We have a chapter called take Nothing Personally, and that's
also one of the four agreements by domguil Reeth. How
hard is it to not take things personal? When you
are a public political figure, people are always talking about you. Yeah,
how hard is it to not take those things? For us?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Well, it's challenging, and I love that you raised the
poor agreements. I love that book. That's a book that
you know, I've often, I've read frequently, and I actually
just gave to all my two kids and my three
step sons for Christmas this last year. I gave it
to all of them. You know, it can be hard
to do because you know, the media trolls are twenty
four to seven NonStop. The people that will show up
(11:26):
and yell at you are feeling more emboldened than ever
to say whatever they want, whether it's grounded in fact
or not. And it can be challenging. But I think
that it's also a great lesson to know that when
people are lashing out, it's really not about you. It's
about them. When people say, you know, mean things about
you know, the dress that you wear at your state
(11:46):
of the state, or you know how you you know,
how you wear your hair, or whatever it is, it's
about them. It ain't about you and any energy you
put into it. I think it takes away from energy
you need to do real important stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
You talked about your head. Why didn't your grandma want
you to put your head on the.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Middle beats the hell out of me, and I said,
don't take that piece of advice, but work hard, wait
wait to get married a little later in life. But
I think those are are good pieces of advice.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, she gave you a three pieces of advice.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
What was it?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Don't don't put your head down in the middle, work hard,
work hard, and don't get married until at least twenty.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Eight Yeah, yes, yeah, I think those are good pieces
of advice.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
You did, you did? Did you follow them all?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
I did? You know I'm a hard worker. I know
that I'm raised in a state that you know, we're
full of people that are work hard. Michigan Anders got grit.
And I think that that's, you know, part of the title, right,
true grit, it's true gretch. But it's a playoff that
because I think grit is what really defines my philosophy
and who the people in Michigan are. We work hard,
(12:51):
we show up, we expect a fair shake, and I
think that's what has centered a lot of the work
that I do. And you know, like so many people,
I was lucky to have two great, phenomenal grandmothers who
really had a massive impact on my life. Nino, my
dad's mom, esther that's my middle name, Gretchenester. She was
(13:13):
you know, raised on a farm in rural Ohio. She
was at the age in her late nineties was lobbying
people in her church to vote for Barack Obama. She
was ahead of her time and in so many ways,
you know, strong feminist, and she taught me a lot.
But trying to find the good in every situation, in
(13:34):
every person was something that she imparted on us and
parted on us.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
And she.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Was the you know, one who said, even the meanest
personal world might have pretty eyes, try to find the good.
And that's something that you know I have found has
has been a real important lesson for me to have
in the back of my head through all the crazy
stuff that I've had.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
In an try, I was to say the same thing,
what's the good? And Donald Trump? You said, your grandmother said,
find me good in everybody?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Well, you know what, the one thing I can say
about Donald Trump is he can read a public sentiment.
He didn't know how to fix anything. He doesn't know
how to do the job of president. He treats people
with disrespect, and you know, he teaches people to hate.
And you know, there are a lot of downsides, But
he can read what's going on with people and he
can feed into it and feed off of it, and
(14:23):
I think that that's a talent. Does ease it for good?
Hell no, but but that is something that he does well.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
What made you want to get into politics? What was
the thing that says, this is what I want to do.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, it really was the first time around was you know,
I was practicing law. I had worked for the House
Democrats in Michigan. We had a tie in our state
House fifty five Democrats and fifty five Republicans when I
worked there, which was the only time it's ever happened
in Michigan, and they had to work together. And that's
when I cut my teeth in politics. I really got
to see maybe the best in what government can be.
(14:59):
And we have limits in Michigan. And it was like
so many women. It was someone else who called and said,
you know, your state rep can't run again. You should
take a look at it. I thought me, as you know,
I've always been active, but me as a candidate never
dawned on me. But I kind of looked at the
field of people. I thought, man, I can do as
good a job as any of these yahoo's. So I
decided to throw my hat in the race, and I've
(15:20):
won every election since. I've enjoyed public service immensely, but
I didn't think when I was done in the legislature,
I'd served six years in the House and then eight
years in the state Senate. I was a Senate minority leader,
and you know, the leader of twelve people in a
body of thirty eight. We get our teeth kaped every
damn day. And I thought, all right, I've done my
(15:40):
public service. But the Flint water crisis became known, and
just to refresh everyone's memory, you know, Flint is a
predominantly black city. It was a thriving city for many
decades when General Motors had a huge presence there. As
the company took resources out of Flint, you know, poverty grew,
(16:02):
and it was a city that didn't have a whole
lot of support in state government. And at a time
when budgets were tight, my predecessor appointed a emergency manager
who went in and made catastrophic decisions not to treat
the water, and the people in Flint got a lot
of lead poisoning in their water that became public and
(16:24):
that really was what drove me to want to run
for governor. The people Flint deserved better. They need a
governor who is going to make this right. And I
looked at who was talking about running. I thought, you
know what, I know how to do it. I'm gonna
get in this race. Donald Trump had just carried Michigan
eleven thousand vote difference between him and Hillary Clinton in sixteen,
(16:45):
and I thought, I gotta get organized. I got to
get all across the state. And I spent two years
campaigning in all eighty three counties. I showed up in
places Democrats right often, and I won. And so many
lessons from what happened around the Flint water crisis has
driven the work that I've done to try to make
it right, to ensure other communities don't have a catastrophe
(17:07):
like they had in Flint. And and we've made great strides.
I'm proud of the work that we've done, but there's
a lot more work to do.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Is the water fixed and Flint is it?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah? So almost every pipe has been replaced. The ones
that haven't, they had a hard time getting contact with
homeowners that maybe don't live there anymore. So, yes, the
water is clean. We've got We've expanded resources for nutrition
for Flint kids because we know to address lead poisoning
that that's a very crucial component. We just started what
(17:39):
we call our ex Kids, which is monetary support for
expectant mothers and babies. This is a you know, the
direct dollars into the household. That it was driven by
doctor Mona Hannah Atsha, who was the doctor that discovered
the lint the Flint lead crisis. So we've done a
lot of really creative things. We're continuing to invest in
(18:00):
Flint and crazy to say, but in Michigan we got
great public park system, great state park system. The only
county in Michigan that didn't have a state park was
Genesee County, which is where Flint is. We've created a
state park there, made great investment in downtown Flint so
that people can have the kind of amenities that they
expect everywhere else in the state.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Finally, you know, you've done some things in Michigan that
I want to highlight because I think they're great. When
you said some things like you once said, you declared
racism as a public health crisis. He required all medical
professionals to undergo unconscious bias training to improve healthcare and
target disparities. What motivated you to make that kind of declaration.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
But you know, I think during the pandemic we saw
laid bare the real true discrepancy and treatment and access
and information that is shared with and support for the
black community in particular. You know, my Lieutenant governor is
Michigan's first Black Lieutenant governor. Doctor Jonae Keldoone, who was
(19:01):
my chief medical executive during the Flint Water or during
the pandemic, is an African American emergency room doctor. She
was one of the first in the country to look
at the data what was coming in in the early
days of our COVID experience. You here in New York
were it was hot here, it was hot in New Orleans,
(19:21):
it was hot in Chicago, and it was hot in Detroit.
We had an incredible number of people that were suffering
from COVID, and it was disproportionately in the black community.
You know, we have in the early days of COVID
forty percent of the deaths in Michigan were African Americans.
Fourteen percent of our population is African American, and so
(19:42):
doctor j was the first one to see the early
data she was practicing in our emergency rooms. She saw
at firsthand and she said, this is disproportionately hit in
my community. We got to have a targeted approach here,
and so we created the Racial Disparities Task Force. We
did specific outreach to the black community. We spent a
(20:02):
lot of money and resources making sure that people had
access and had solid information. We drove those death numbers
way down because of it. I'm telling you, I don't
know that we would have been nearly as successful. It
wasn't the fact that we had an empowered black woman
with the medical experience and the hands on experience in
downtown Detroit to really drive that policy. And that's why
(20:24):
I'm always telling people, you know, diversity matters. Empowered representation.
That was key. It's not enough to have, you know,
a proportion of voices around the table if you're not
listening to them and if they don't feel empowered to
really drive the plan. And you know, most scientists are
not skilled communicators like Joan A. Kaldunez. I was real
(20:45):
fortunate to have someone that had both those skills. She
was by my side in every press conference and designing
the policy in Michigan. And you know, declaring racism of
public health crisis, making sure that our racial disparities work
wasn't confined into a pandemic because it existed before the
pandemic and obviously can exist to this day. But I
think we're making strides on it, and she and the
(21:07):
Lieutenant Governor have been key leaders in that effort in Michigan.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Is the unconscious bias training is something that's going to
transcend past healthcare because I feel like that should be
in law enforcement, that should be in the banking system.
I feel like that should be in schooling. I feel
like that should be in so many different spaces.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Absolutely, we require all state employees to go through it.
So whether you're working with people in the healthcare space
or in law enforcement or anywhere for that matter, it's
important to recognize we all bring bias like we are
lived where human beings with lived experiences that informed how
we act. If we're cognizant of it, we can do better.
(21:45):
But if we're not talking about it, not thinking about it,
not examining it, we aren't going to change anything. And
so that training, I think is really important. I went
through the training just like everyone on my staff and
throughout state government did, and I think more workplaces should
require it because it's just an honest assessment of who
we are and it's how we grow. And I like
to think most people want to do better, but we
(22:07):
can't expect them to do better if they don't know better.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
That's right, And it's another thing that you do to
I like and Governor Shapiro has a version of it
in Pennsylvania. But it's the Clean Slate Bill and the
Clean Slate for Kids that that you signed. What is
that about.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
I'll tell you one of the things. One of the
days that if you need no I'm good, I'm good.
But one of the days that I think will live
with me for the rest of my life was, you know,
we changed the laws in Michigan so that people can
get their records xpunch. We made sure that people that were,
you know, sentenced and did time for marijuana offenses don't
(22:43):
have that on their record anymore. It's not legal in Michigan,
so you shouldn't have to carry that with you. And
so we had a huge expungement fair in Flint. Actually
we're talking a lot about Flint today, but this was
in Flint, and the Lieutenant Governor and I were there.
The Secretary of State was helping people get registered to vote.
There's a common misconception that if you have a record,
(23:04):
you can't vote. Well, you sure as can. And we
register people when they're leaving prison now to make sure
that they are voting. And the Attorney General was there
so we can help people with paperwork to get all
the records expunged. We had a thousand people show up
before eight o'clock in the morning who were excited about
this giving them an opportunity to get into a better
job because of this old thing on the record was
(23:25):
keeping them from getting gainfully employed or get housing. And
so we've made we've made big strides. There's always more
work to do, but our bail reform, you're not sitting
in jail because you don't have someone in your pocket
for a you know, a civil infraction. We've we've made
a lot of great policy changes and we've helped a
lot of people, you know, get another opportunity, which is
(23:48):
everyone deserves that.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Why are people going further on the marijuana thing? Like
I saw I read that you were considering pardoning a
lot of non violent marijuana offenders. We saw what Wes more.
Just did you know in Maryland when it comes to
misdemeana convictions, weed is legal in Michigan, So it seems
like a no brain that had just pardoned all non
violent marijuana offenders.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Absolutely, Yeah, it's it's every state has a little different
requirements to get it done. So, Wes, did you know
a wonderful thing. I was really happy to see am
use those powers. I don't have those kind of sweeping powers.
So we've done it. We've gone through and done it.
You know, so many cases we've been able to move through,
but we can't do it end mass like that. Unfortunately,
(24:27):
who the power? It just depends on the state. You know,
different states have different executive authorities and powers.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I saw you say that governors are a competitive bunch. Yeah,
and you talked about Governor Newsom in the book. Like
what did you mean by that? Because then and the
reference the example you used with something in regard to
social distance, and I don't want to tell the whole story,
but yeah, like, what did you mean y'all a competitive book?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Oh? No, you know, I think governors are the best
salespeople for their states. I got to see Jay Insley
talk about how great the state of Washington. Is when
I was running for governor, I thought, oh, yeah, this
is gonna be the job is. I'm going to be
the promoter of all of Michigan for the world. Right,
So we're we are a competitive bunch, you know. In
the book, I talk a little bit about, you know,
some ways that you know, we're all human, right, and
(25:13):
when we make a mistake, we should own it. And
I was praising Gavin Newsom for owning a mistake that
he'd made. I'd made a very similar one, and so
that was an example. You know. I think Newsom is
a phenomenal leader. I think we're really lucky that we
got so many great Democratic leaders across this country. Right now.
We talked a little bit about Wes Moore. I know
(25:33):
you had Josh Shapiro in here recently. He's fantastic, more
a heally from Massachusetts. I mean, we got leaders all
across the state. Tim Walls from Minnesota. He swears even
more than we do, so you should have. But you know,
it's a it's a really incredible bunch of people. And
I've learned so much from my colleagues, and we've helped
(25:54):
one another, and and I think you know, there's a
real great crop of leaders right now.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Now, let me ask a question. I know you had
it to promote your book, but I wanted to ask
you a question. A lot of people are not necessarily
confident in Joe Biden right now. They don't know if
they should go out and vote at all. Maybe they're
looking people are thinking right now, maybe it's the lesser
of two evils. What do you say to those individuals
that are not a thousand percent confident and Biden. Maybe
(26:19):
think Biden is too old, maybe think that he doesn't
has early signs of dementia.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
What do you say to those people?
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Well, I'll start with us. You know, we all watch
that debate and you know it was bad. I mean
that's an understatement.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
It was.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
It was really bad, horrible, and it shook a lot
of people. And people are asking questions. And you know what,
I don't have a problem with that. You should ask questions.
You should demand that your leaders are up to the job.
I believe that Joe Biden is. And I tell you
I went to the White House with a number of
my colleagues, Gavin and Josh included and West as well,
and we had to sit down with the president. There's
(26:55):
no question in my mind that he's ready to take
this on. I had a conversation with him all of
our co chairs last weekend, same thing. He's a fighter,
he's ready to go. He had a bad night, He'll
be the first to admit it. It was terrible. Yet
here we are. We've got a choice between an affirmative
vote for Joe Biden or anything else is a vote
for Donald Trump, and a second Trump presidency will be devastating.
(27:19):
Second Trump presidency will take us further down the line
of taking away individual rights of a worse and more
intelerant nation with bigger discrepancies and income. I think that
it's a dangerous prospect. Joe Biden wants to continue the
work he's made record investments in on shoring, manufacturing, and
(27:41):
the growth that we're seeing in our supply chains. We're stronger,
We're getting stronger every day. That all can be undone.
We got a president who's going to fight for every
one of us black community, the brown community, women, and
our rights. I think that he's got a record of
doing that and he's going to continue to do it
for the next four years. And that's why I'm on
wavering in my support of Joe Biden Kamala Harris. I
(28:03):
think that they are great leaders who are fortunate to
have them. They've got the receipts and they got a
plan for the next four years. The other guy represents
a real, clear and present danger. You know.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Chapter four is surround yourself with great people. Don't be
afraid to ask for help. You know, when you think
about the sarrogance, like yourself, the wes Moores, Governor, Shapiro's
vice president. I rock with all of them. Right. Is
President Biden the kind of leader that will ask y'all
for help? Yes?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
And you know what I think. Another thing to remember
is during the Trump years, remember his cabinet, it was
a bunch of cronies and crooks. These are people that were,
you know, I think, not experts in the fields in
which they were hired. I can talk about the Department
Education because Betsy Deboss is from Michigan. Biden, on the
other hand, has got a diverse cabinet that is incredibly
(28:53):
skilled that he leans on. You got Gina Rimondo and
Pete boota judge, and Tom vill said, he's got Cedric Richmond,
you know, very much a big part of of his operation,
and obviously the vice president. He surrounds himself with quality
people who are doing the work and showing up and
actually care about the American people. And I think that's
a real fundamental difference here. So yeah, he does listen,
(29:18):
He asks questions. He says, you know, give me some advice.
And you know, we've been pretty pretty frank, had some
pretty frank conversations about giving some some input.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You think he's the Secretary of p too, because he
comes to the base, comes some time all the time.
And I often feel like y'all should be offended. And
the reason I say y'all should be offended because people
will say, is this the best America has to offer?
Is this the best the Democratic Party has to offer?
In Biden? And it does kind of like, you know,
make yourself and the the Wes Moorees and the Shapiros
(29:48):
and the Buddhajas and the VP look like damn aren't
they're they're all better to me than you know, the
current leader of the of the party.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Well, all these people you're gonna we're gonna to see
do incredible things for the short term and the long term.
So we're fortunate that one. You know, I understand that sentiment.
And you know, I got kids, they're twenty two and
twenty and they're you know, they're not as excited as I,
you know, would love for them to be. And yet
I know they're going to vote because they understand their
(30:20):
rights to make their own decisions about their bodies, their
ability to get housing after they graduate from college and
try to get you know, an affordable place to live
that is on their minds. Their ability to you know,
live a long life in a climate that can sustain humanity. Right.
Gun violence. This generation has grown up doing mass shooting drills.
(30:42):
We can't even we can't even appreciate what kind of
trauma that's inflicted on this generation. They are engaged in
a way that we weren't, and so the fact that
there may be don't Joe Biden doesn't resonate as well
with every one of you know, every voter that's out there.
I think that every voter can see a voice, a
person that is a part of this effort that does though,
(31:04):
and I think that that kind of Avenger style campaign
and leadership has got to be a part of how
we go forward.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I've been saying that I don't want it. I would
rather see his sarrogates out there.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Do you want to see him debate again? Do you
think he should debate again?
Speaker 3 (31:16):
I don't know, you know, I it doesn't seem as
though people go into debates with open minds these days.
I do agree with you that, you know, having surrogates
out there is powerful and incredibly helpful. And I know,
you know, a lot of my colleagues and standard bears
for the party are going to be descending into Michigan.
(31:38):
And I'm excited about that because I want people to see,
you know, I want people to get to know, you know,
all of all of these leaders that are doing the
work and that are part of the work that President
Biden has gotten done. I want them to hear from
them too.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
But why lie to American people? And what I mean
by that is, like, you know, Joe Stephanopolis just got
caught saying he doesn't feel like he can serve another
for is President Biden. So even if that is people's
you know, sentiment, why not say, hey, this is why
you still vote for him? Like, why can't we have
(32:11):
that conversation?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, you know, I was not happy to see those comments, obviously,
I disagree with George, and I have a great deal
of respect for him, but I disagree with him, And
you know, I challenge anyone who's out there opining about
someone's health. Oh my lord, we've spent two weeks litigating
the ninety minutes, the bad ninety minutes of Joe Biden,
(32:35):
and not enough time litigating the four horrific years of
Donald Trump. Let's be clear, this is a choice between
two people. Yes, there are some third party candidates, but
you vote for one of them that is helping Donald Trump.
And so anything short of an affirmative vote for Biden
is a vote for Trump. And I think whether it's
because you're appalled at that possibility, or you're confident and
(32:59):
have faith in in President Biden and Kamala Harris. And
let's be clear, that's why we have a team. In
case one person can't do the job, you got to
back up. That's what the vice presidency is all about.
And she's incredibly capable. This is not the time to
keep bringing our hands. We got to roll up our
sleeves because we got a lot of work to do.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
You think people should challenge him at the convention coming up?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yes, I don't.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
I don't. You know, I respect that there are different opinions,
but I don't. I think right now we know what
the matchup is.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
We keep asking for it. What last year he said
there's about fifty other Democrats who could beat Trump. Last
week he goes, you know, hey, conn Yeah, he's asking
for it.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Well, I'm glad to see him show a little swagger, frankly,
but by the same token. You know, this isn't fantasy football.
We are beyond the primaries and we are beyond the caucuses.
The matchup is set, and the only person that changes
that matchup is Joe Biden. He's made his decision, he's
communicated it.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
So let's go you know, just about mission. Because it's
a huge battleground state. Over one hundred thousand primary voters
cast uncommitted votes back in February because of the Bidens
administration's funding of the Israel military and the war on Palestine.
Does that concern you about how Michigan will turn out
in November?
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Yeah, of course it does. You know, the great story
of Michigan is that we are the place people came
to from around the world for opportunity, and because of that,
we got a richly diverse population, right People came from
the South for a job on the line. People came
from Lebanon for a job on the line. People came
from Holland for a job in you know, the muckfields
(34:36):
on the west side of the state, or from Finland
for a job in mining in the Upper Peninsula. I mean,
we're a very diverse state and it's a great strength.
It also is made up of communities. All of these
communities that I've been able to count on as a
part of the coalition that's always supported my candidacy for office,
and I'm grateful for that. Everyone's hurting right now. That's
(34:57):
the only universal truth. You know. Our Jewish community is
in pain. We've seen the rise of anti Semitism, the
horrors of October seventh, the hostages that still haven't been released,
my Arab American and Muslim community, and Palestinian community, and
it's important to single them all out because it's not monolithic.
(35:18):
They are different communities within within one larger community. They're
hurting because they see the loss of innocent lives every
single day playing out. There's so many people in Michigan
that are one degree or two degrees of separation from
someone who's lost their life in this altercation or someone
(35:38):
who's starving right now. And so I think part of
the one of the lessons in my book is about
the power of listening. We got to show up and listen.
We've got to show people that we care. Staying close
to my Arab American community, staying close with my Jewish community,
(35:58):
it is really important. And recognizing the pain that everyone's
feeling is as well. But I also want to be
clear that Donald Trump presidency eight sure is hell ain't
going to fix what's going on in the Middle East.
I mean it could measurably make it worse. You hear
some of the crazy things that he has said, some
of what his supporters have said. You think we want
(36:19):
a two state solution where we everyone can have a
safe homeland. That's not something that he's promoting. And I
think it will make it measurably worse. And that's why,
you know, I understand the pain and that people are
feeling checked out and unheard. That's why the listening part
is so important. That's why I say listening is a
superpower in my book, and I think that's something that
(36:41):
Biden does better than Trump does. He's an empathetic guy
who actually cares about people.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
What would your message be to the Muslim Arab community
in Michigan in regard to the supporting President Biden come November.
Because you know, fifty thousand, you know, innocent people killed.
It is tough to see.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Oh, yeah, no, it's it's horrific.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Women and children.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, man too. You know, I know everyone posts the
women and children, but there are a lot of isn't
men's who've lost their lives too. I mean, it is horrific.
And yet if we want to have a leader of
the free world who sees that, who cares about leading
for a two state solution, who's never going to campaign
(37:20):
on like a Muslim band or child separation at the
border for Brown families coming into this country. I mean
that's Joe Biden. There's no question who the better leader
is on all of these issues, and it's Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
You know, chapter nine, you talk about owning your screw
ups and forgiving others for theirs, And I read where
you wanted to actually meet with someone from the far
right militia that applotted the kidnap and assassinate you. Yeah,
I don't know if my forgiveness works, then wouldn't want
to have that conversation was, well.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
You know you hope to gain When I wrote that,
I didn't know it would get such strong reaction, but
it has, so you're in the majority.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
I could and you know you can kill you.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
What do you hope to gain from?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
There were twelve to fourteen guys who were out there
planning for months to kidnap and then hold a sham
trial and execute me. That was their plan, and they
had a kill house. They went through all these exercises
to practice that. Text messages are horrific. Fortunately, law enforcement,
you know, had infiltrated, they had an informer, and they
(38:25):
were able to keep it from happening, and I'm grateful
for that.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Did they tell you early on that this was happening?
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Did you know through the whole process or not through
the whole process? But I knew a few months before
it became public. The head of my security details sat
down with me. I talked a little bit about it
in the book and shared it with me, and someone was,
you know, give me a hard time because they said, oh,
you know the way you told your kids. He said, oh,
by the way, there's a plot to kidnap and kill me.
But it's okay, We're going to be fine, you know,
(38:50):
Like I said, it like that and very I don't know,
practical or strange, but whatever, you know, I want to
understand what happened. It is not a rational thing that
you pick up guns and want to assassinate a sitting
governor because she told you wear a mask. That's not rational.
That did not happen all over the country. It happened
in this unique circumstances. Why I would like to understand.
(39:13):
So I'd love to, you know, have the chance to
sit down maybe with one of the people that cooperated
with the government and testified against their fellow plotters.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
That's fine.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Well, I'm grateful that there were a couple of snitches,
you know, like to just sit down and ask, you know,
what was going on here and show I'm a human being.
You know, I'm a normal person. I'm doing. I'm an
ordinary person, an extraordinary job serving in a crazy time.
But I'd like to understand and if I can learn
something that will make me a better human or a
(39:45):
better governor than it's worth doing.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Have you forgiven them yet?
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Really? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
How does the forgiveness thing work in regard to like
politicians like can you can you forgive Trump for leading
an attempted cooled his country? Can you give the Supreme
Court for a boxing Roe v. Wade? Like that is
the forgiveness work that way too? Well?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
I think if if you own it, yeah, I think
if you say you know, you have, you have learned,
or you regret, then yeah, I think it is you
can forgive if.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
You're fighting actively against it.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Though, well he hasn't owned it, and he hasn't you know,
they're trying to spin it as though it was a
harmless group of tourists. They're trying to spend as you know,
the people that were tearing down our capital and we're,
you know, are the reason that people officers have lost
their lives. Were patriots doing this. That's what they're trying
(40:39):
to tell us, Like, don't believe you're lying eyes you know,
we this was a peaceful group Bologney, And so I
don't forgive that. I'm mad about that still because that
was a horrific thing to see. I sat there with
my daughters watching this play out in the United States
Capitol and everyone was so shocked. And I thought, if
you're shocked, you weren't paying attention to what was going on.
In Michigan. We saw the early signs of this with
(41:02):
people showing up with guns, standing over our legislature and
sitting outside my house with AR fifteen. It's threatening to
kill me. I mean, this is a part of the
rhetoric that Donald Trump has made so common and the
reaction that is predictable because of what he's done. And
he's showed no remorse for that, not even an understanding
of how serious that was. And that's why I think
(41:24):
you see so many people who used to call themselves
Republicans are looking at him, going I can't do it.
But there still are a lot of people are going
to support him. And I don't forgive him for that.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Do you think it's because you're a woman, Because there
are a lot of governance that said you have to
wear masks. There's a lot of people that came out
and said that you have to wear masks, But none
of them I can recall, had plots on their life
for kidnapping and killing.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Yeah, well you know I was. I convened a group
of governors during COVID to kind of share what we
were seeing help one another when we could. It was
the Midwest governors. Tim Wallas from Minnesota, Tony Evers from Wisconsin,
Baby Pritzker from Illinois, Eric Holcombe from Indiana Republican, Mike
DeWine from Ohio also Republican, and Andy Basher from Kentucky.
(42:08):
Good friend and another great talent. All of them are.
I think all the Democratic governors are fantastic. And we
were chatting about, you know, everything that was playing out,
and one of my colleagues said, you know, Gretchen, you're
doing all the same things that we're doing, but why
are you taking so much more heat for it? And
when the last word landed he went, he said, oh wait,
(42:29):
don't answer that. I know it's because you are the
woman doing it, and so I'm not the one who
raises Okay, I'm dealing with this because I'm a woman,
but I appreciate when someone else points it out because
I do think that that's a part of it. I
don't want that woman telling me what to do. And
you know, we didn't have a black governor during the pandemic.
I don't know the extra kind of heat that a
(42:52):
black governor would have confronted, but I know that the
women governors did deal with a whole higher intensity of
hate that came.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Oh I agree with you because you know, you know,
even when your name comes up as you know, being
a presidential candidate. You know, I always say, man, I
think that this country in a lot of ways is
more sexist and racist. I don't know if they would
vote as qualified as you are.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Right, Huh we seen Hillary.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
That's my point, Like, I don't know if they would.
It's the same reason that they're so afraid of Vice
President Harris. Like when people when you hear people say, oh,
you should be scared of a you know, president Harris.
You know, uh, you should be scared of a president
Harris run. And I'm like, why what would our policies
wouldn't be any different than any other Democrats, So what
would be make them afraid other than her being a
woman and a woman of color.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, I mean that that. I think you're making an
important point. You know. I was kind of marveling watching
the news this morning. Nikki Haley was taking a shot
at Kamala Harris, and you know, it just really struck
me that these are two women of Indian descent, you know,
and she's saying things like Kamala Harris would be dangerous,
you know, and it's just it's it's galling to me
(44:01):
to watch that play out. I was hopeful, you know,
I thought she was somewhat of a voice of reason
in that primary, and yet you know, she's just thrown
her a lot in and with the team that she
was so critical of over the last year and a
half and attacking Kamala Harrison. I just I don't know.
It's just maybe that's why we haven't had a woman
president yet, because because you see.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Stuff like that playout, do you think you could be
the first?
Speaker 3 (44:25):
I don't have any plans to run for anything after
this term as governor. It's it's certainly a compliment to
be included in the list of people whose names come
up all the time. But you know, I got a
big job right now. I got two and a half
more years to be governor of Michigan. I got a
lot more that I want to get accomplished, and I'm
not thinking of anything beyond that.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
You could write shock, shock, blood, motherfuck shop, motherfucker on
the paper and then you know you can go for it.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
Did you hear g Matcash a song about you, Big
rich oh Man, I love Gmtcash. He sent me an
email yesterday he said, good luck on gm A. I'm
rooting for you, bestie. So yeah, that is we're not
best friends, but I like to think that we're very good.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Friends when you hear the record and who put you
onto it?
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Okay, So first, it started with the nickname Big Gretch,
Big Gretch. So you know, first of all, I'm named
after my two grandmas, Gretchen and Esther. They're both in
the book. But Grandma Gretchen always said, don't ever let
anyone call you gretch. Your name is Gretchen. So I've
always had an aversion to being called gretch. I don't
(45:26):
know many women that want big in the front of
their nickname. Am I right?
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Big? What depends? You know? If you heavy said, we
say you got a big bag, but big can mean
like position as well.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Yeah. Well it's it's all good now. But you know,
when I first heard the name big Gretch, I'm like,
oh Lord, what what is happening here? And Shaquille Meyer,
someone on my on my team at the time from Detroit,
was like, oh no, you don't understand the people of
Detroit have accepted you. Big Gretch is a compliment. It
is given with love. And I was like, all right,
tell me more. And then in Detroit, a symbol of
(45:59):
success is buffs. So the Buffalo, Cardier.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Sunglasses, buff glasses.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Yep, yeah, so you got to have the buffs. So
but when I don't own buffs, I mean I don't
have that kind of money, and I don't trust myself
with expensive sunglasses. But they they present you with buffs
like it's they don't literally present you with buffs, but
it's you know, a saying. And so it was like, okay,
I'm presented with buffs? What the hell are buff shequilla?
So she's educating me. But then Gmac made it into
(46:25):
a into the rap song and I just love it.
I think Big Grutch has become this this nickname I
never knew that I needed. It was given to me.
Trump was kicking my butt, he was making my life miserable.
I was getting all sorts of threats and ugliness. And
this happened at a time where I really, you know,
appreciated the boost. And everywhere I go, especially in Detroit,
(46:46):
I'm Big Gretch.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
So Big Gretch Gravity Gretsch. Which one do you like?
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Big Gretch is my favorite.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yes, Big grts has to go.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Okay, I got one more question, well too, you could
actually get the buff glasses now because the Supreme Court
made it to where you can get bribes. You can
have the money for me. But why aren't people saying
the Supreme Court is no longer a legitimate institution. Why
aren't folks calling them out for their corruption?
Speaker 3 (47:09):
I am, you know, and I was glad to see
Sheldon Whitehouse and a letter to Merrick Garland. I don't
know if he's going to do anything about it, but
I hope he does because it is so depressing and
sad to me. You know, I'm a lawyer. I was
raised by you know, two public servants who also were lawyers, though,
and who revered the judicial system, that it was the
(47:30):
check on government, that it was above the politics of
the day. We saw that over the years, where decisions
came out even if you didn't agree with him, you
respected him because they were grounded in some you know,
interpretation of the constitution, not a political agenda. And yet
what we've seen now Trump remade the Supreme Court three
(47:51):
appointees who lied to Congress about roeb Wade and went
on and just eviscerated women's reproductive freedom. That is on
this ballot a majority now who has said that a
president has you know, this vast immunity now that the
law didn't apply to the person who is who we
elect as our president. It is scary, and they are is.
(48:11):
It is terribly frustrating to have all the presumptions I
was raised to believe that you could count on that
court thrown into the garbage in a dumpster. And it's
it's a real problem, and I'm glad to see. You know,
some folks in Congress are taking it seriously, but man,
we need a better mechanism to hold them accountable.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
You still think it's a legitimate institution, the Supreme Court.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
I think that they have bastardized it. I hate to
say it.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
You shouldn't, It's the truth.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Yeah, I hate the fact of it. You know, we
deserve better, and those justices took an oath then. Man,
it's just horrible to see that not even they're holding
it up.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
So Biden needs to expand the courts.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Right Well, I'm not going to tell the President what
to do, but we do need a system that is
actually accountable to the people, and it has to abide
by a certain ethic standard and is brained in by
you know, the law.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
If you were president, would you explained Supreme Court?
Speaker 3 (49:06):
I haven't. It's a good question. I don't know that
I've got a thoughtful answer for you. Yet the answers
should be the answers aren't running for president. So there.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
All right.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Last question, when you see people from Michigan at Detroit,
do you agree them with?
Speaker 2 (49:21):
What upde?
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Yeah? Absolutely, That's that's how we agreet one another. What
updo you know? I gotta tell you Detroit hosted the
NFL Draft yep, and man, it was the most fun event.
Detroit's population has grown for the first time in seventy years.
We had a record draft turnout, and then we had
the Grand Prix the next week, and then the opening
of Detroit Michigan Central Station, the old train station that
(49:46):
Bill Ford, you know, decided to plow a bunch of
resources into and now it's like this hub of R
and D and it's exciting time. We had, you know,
eminem produced a big party at the opening. I mean,
there's so much good stuff happening in Detroit and all
across Michigan. And so yeah, what up dough to the
listeners from Detroit forty two.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Doug is here, so you'll be able to say that
to him. You'll surly seeming in the whole. All right. Well,
it's the Governor Gretchen movie. Thank you so much, Governor
of Michigan. Pleasure make sure you go get her a
new book, true Gretch, what I've learned about life, leadership
and everything in between it. And don't be a stranger. Please.
We were on a lot of stations in U Misschchigan.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
I know I'll come back, please do all right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake that ass.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Up in the morning. The Breakfast Club
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