May 24, 2025 • 41 mins
On this episode of Just Heal with Dr. Jay, Dr. Jay Barnett sits down with actress and mental health advocate Taraji P. Henson for an honest conversation about healing, community, and emotional well-being. They reflect on the importance of vulnerability, the lasting impact of childhood experiences, and the power of reconnecting with nature. Taraji shares personal insights from her journey to Bali, her ongoing work through the Boris Lawrence Henson Foundation, and how friendship plays a vital role in maintaining peace. Together, they explore what it means to take responsibility for your healing and the value of showing up authentically for yourself and others. Tune in and join the conversation in the socials below.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Jesshill with Doctor J, a production of the
Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to another
episode of Just Hell with Doctor J. And I am
your host, Doctor J. Barnett, and I'm excited about today's guests.
I have my great friend, you know her as missus Cookie,
but I know her as Tea and all of the
(00:21):
many characters that we have been blessed to see her play.
But today we want to have a conversation about healing,
and as y'all know, when you come into the Healing community,
we're talking about things that are impactful for our journey,
that can impact our life. And I'm so happy to
have my friend tagip Henson joining me with the Healing
(00:42):
Community day. Welcome, Thank you listen. I am excited about
this episode and this episode I think that's going to
be transformed because May is mental health money and we
have been working together for a number of years under
the bors Henson Foundation in free therapy to black men
and black women. And I just think this conversation is
(01:07):
not had enough, even though we're talking about it more.
But before I start into the conversation, I always ask
every guest, I don't ask them how they're doing. I
ask them, how are you feeling.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I'm feeling blessed today, really happy, and I'm excited about
today because you know, of course we're having our symposium
and we're helping the kids. And I actually used to
go to oxen Hille High School really, so I feel
really good about giving back to them in this way.
Before we start, can I just say I'm proud of you,
(01:41):
black man.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I'm just really really proud of you.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I am thank you, thank you, And listen, I want
to say this to everybody. Y'all only know me because
of the riot, well like for real, and so I
have to say I'm I'm I'm humble because it was
a black woman. It was you I think came across
one in my videos and then your team reached out
(02:06):
to me. This is what twenty twenty. This was twenty twenty. Yeah, yeah,
and we did the Breakfast Club virtual at that time,
and I just want to say thank you for seeing
me and for providing the opportunity for the world to
know my voice and not just my story, but the
(02:26):
voice and the impact that I would have on black men.
It was you, and this is why we need.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Black women and we need y'all.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So we need each other. We need each other, and
I wish, you know, we could settle these these these
wars that we have and online because we're so needed
in just building each other.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah for sure, Yeah sure, So you.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Know you feel blessed. You look amazing. I don't know
what you're drinking and what you're doing, but you look amazing.
Like I know, you take trips to Bali and body
is your place to really get away in the check
out what has that been for your healing journey.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
It's a place. It's a great place to recenter because
it's not a place about vanity. You know a lot
of times when you go overseas, it's about shopping and
this and that, and that's not where you go for that.
It's literally eat, pray, love. The people are beautiful. They
pray over everything, they pray over you. It's a lot
of yoga. I mean, the food is from the earth,
everything is clean eating. I just feel so nurtured. We
(03:39):
call it mother Boy because the land is so nurturing.
But that's just that has become my place to go
when I need to recenter, Yeah, get away from it all,
because it's very far.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Now when you go, how long are you gone?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
The first time I stayed for a month. The second
time I went for like two and a half weeks. Yeah,
it's not a quick trip because it takes about twenty
four hours to get there.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Wow. Wow. And when you go there and you resenter yourself,
how does your spirit feels to step away from America?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Let me just tell you this. The first time I went,
I landed at some weird hour in the morning. They
had a herbal bath waiting for me. I took it.
It was like four o'clock in the morning. By the
time I unpacked and got in a bed, I slept
for twelve hours. Can I tell you the last time
I slept through like twelve straight hours? I since probably
(04:34):
went my twenties when I was going to the clubs
and stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, twelve straight hours. And I never could sleep that
peacefully in the States.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Wow. Do you feel because of the chaos and the
noise is why many of us can't rest?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Absolutely? I literally remember after my month stay, it felt
like it went so fast, and I remember I was
crying packing coming back. I did not want to come back.
As soon as I got back to America, it was
a mass shooting in Chinatown, and La I.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Was like, and I remember texting you when you come back,
and you was just saying I did not want to
come back, and not want to come back, did not.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Want to come I heard a doctor say, if you
ever find yourself diagnosed with cancer and you want to survive,
the first thing you got to do is leave America.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
What.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yes, he said, that's the first thing you have to do.
He didn't go into the medicines, he didn't go into
holistic he said, the first thing you must do is
leave America.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Wow. You know, I'm writing this book and it's titled
I actually just got agreed to the terms. This is
my first major book deal. And I'm excited about this
this because the book is about pursuing pace. The subtitle
(06:00):
is in a world that's not slowing down. And as
you were speaking about the doctor saying you got to
leave here, we're in such a hurry and there's such
stress that we have day to day. And I'm saying
to myself, how do we ever find pace? How do
you create pace in your busy world?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I where I live is very peaceful. My house sits
on the hill away from the noise. I don't hear
any street traffic. It's my sanctuary. And I had a
friend who's very clairvoyant say that he saw like Native
Americans around the property in spirit protecting it. So I
(06:43):
would have friends flying from out of town and they
would come in all stress and they come to my
house and they would be like, oh my god, I
just feel so peaceful. And when I was living in Chicago,
I would, you know, working on that show could be
kind of crazy. When I was on Empire, I would
go to laid back to my house to regather myself.
So that's literally my sanctuary is home. I have two dogs.
(07:07):
I just got a new puppy. Lord, why did I
do that? Yes, I have Frenchies, two Frenchies, and they're
my joy. You know, simple things, nothing you know, theything'
about going to a spa or any of that. I
work out a lot, which for me is more is
more about my mental than this the aesthetics, you know,
because it releases those good endorphins, you know, so simple,
(07:32):
keeping everything really simple, you know, I have my playroom,
which is my salon. When I was a little girl,
we couldn't afford nothing, and so I always promised myself
when I got older, I would I would make a
room where I could play, and I would buy all
the things that I couldn't afford when I was a kid.
And it's my salon and I have my little dog
heads that I go in there and I work. It's
(07:55):
just where I gotta want to tell all my business.
But yes, my I mean I could be the world
could be burning up and I'd be in my salon
having fun with my doll heads.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Like I like that because it's almost like you get
to connect back to the little girl.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Absolutely. I reached out to Tyler Perry one time. I said,
while the world is burning up, I'm in here watching
my Dea movies and I turned the camera around and
show He said, Wow, Toaji, that's you protected letting that
taking care of that little TJ little girl.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And I was like, absolutely, Oh God, this is this
is so rich because I'm sitting here thinking about, you know,
childhood wounds and childhood traumas and all those different things.
And I don't think we realize as we're aging that
we're either doing one or two things. We're either running
from the little boy or little girl, or we're trying
to replace or give the little boy a little girl
(08:50):
what they didn't have at that particular time. And as
you were talking about sitting there and playing with the
doll heads, does that bring a level of peace to
the little girl inside of you?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I forget. I don't my office be trying to reach
me and the phone will be buzzing, and I get
annoyed because I don't want to deal with that, and
then I'll be like hello, They like, you gotta come
out of that room. You have to answer these questions.
You gotta sign these documents, and they know when they
can't find me, they know that's where I am. You know,
(09:25):
it just brings me so much peace and joy. And
that's where I was during the pandemic, like I literally
stayed in my salon.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Is that how you got through the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
That's how I got through it.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a
part of us also reconnecting to our childhood. It's some
sort you.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Said, I look how youthful I look because I never
let that little girl inside of me die. I go
outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play
like a kid. I laugh. You know, I love jokes.
I love funny, I love laughing. I laugh at myself.
I don't take myself too seriously. That's the stuff that
keeps you young and stops you from being so hard.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, because I was reading, I was doing something about
black men and aging, and this new data said the
average life expectancy for black men is sixty one point five,
ten years less of white males, which is seventy two.
And we're not. You know, we always hear a black
(10:27):
don't crack, right, but internally we're cracking. And when you're
talking about aging, what has been one of the ways
that you realize that it's the secret to remaining youthful.
As we're aging and as we are evolving. What things
are you doing? I know you're working out. I know
you go to Bali to retreat. What other things have
(10:50):
you discovered?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Going to bed at seven?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I love it. Listen when I tell you, on Friday nights,
I am so excited to go to bed, like o'clock
on Friday.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
That's every night. And so my mother clowned me one
time because I caught FaceTime and she's like, you were
in bed already it was seven o'clock, and I was like, uh, yeah,
I'm telling you, this is my favorite time of the day.
I be dancing to the bed man in that something.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And I remember when we was kid, you hated it,
hate it.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Hate. Some nights, I'm in bed by six thirty because
I'm like, I'm done with my day. Like I'm done
answering questions. I'm done answering questions. I'm done, you know,
with the you know emails. I'm just I'm ready to
go to bed. And my dogs are they're so used
to seven. They eat at seven and they go right
to their crates because they know Mama finished shut it down.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Because I was. I was my mom. She goes to
bed at like six thirty or seven, and she said, baby,
the day is over. It's over.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's a bride. What else you want from me?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
What?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
El?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
And I'm laughing because you know, my mom heard her husband,
and you know, she was like, he'll be in there
and going back to the childhood thing. She so he
likes doing puzzles and he likes science projects, so he
like he goes and buys these science projects. And she's like, baby,
I'm been in to bed. I said, what mister Charlie doing.
Oh baby, Charlie there playing with this little tip. She said,
(12:20):
I've gone to bed because I don't think we realized
that we are sleeping, but we don't rest. We're not resting.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, and you know what, I cut out the alcohol too,
you know, not that I was a heavy drinker, but
I just can't recover. I can't recovery even if I
have wine. And next day I'm like, I just and
it's just like, what's the point, you know? So I
enjoyed my mock tails, but I noticed since I stopped drinking,
(12:53):
I have lucid dreams. I can't I can't remember the
last time used to dream like this. And I wake
up the next day and I remember my dreams like
I'll get up in the middle of night, go to
the bathroom, go back to sleep, and continue the dream,
the same dream.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And I've often heard doctors talk about how alcohol, you know,
we don't think about it, even just with wine, but
just how it can be one of the most deadliest
and not just from my physical perspective, but cognitively. The
brain doesn't function the same.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It just does not. It doesn't.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
So for you, what is a good time now when
you go out, you don't you havening mocktail? Is that
enough for you?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
That's enough for me. But see, now we live in
a society where if you're not drinking, something's wrong. Girl,
why are you not drinking? So to remedy that, I
go straight to the bar and I get a celica water,
put a line in it. Bam. So nobody's asking me questions.
But I found out that I can really enjoy myself
sober like i've because you know why, I remember what
(13:52):
I did the night before when I was drinking, and
people be like, girl, remember when you said up like
I said that I did that? Like I don't. I
want to know. I want to know what I did,
like you know. Then as you're aging, I'm like, does
that mean I'm getting Alzheimer's? You know that's the that's
for fear, you know. So you know, once I proved
(14:12):
to myself that I could really still go out and
really enjoy. In fact, I think I had more fun
because I remember it.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, and you're present.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Very present. I have not clocked out. But the people,
the people that are inebriated be talking to me, and
I'm like, you think they really think? They make it sense?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
And you feel like especially.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
But I don't judge, you know exactly, I don't judge.
I just you know, I'm like dag that used to
be me.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Now, let me ask you this. When you were drinking,
do you feel like it was part of just kind
of escaping social Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Absolutely, and it was the thing to do. Like it's
like you going out and drinking is hand in hand,
like even going to dinner and have a grow. First
thing you do is the first thing they offer you.
Would you like for cocktails? Here's the drink menu, you know,
and I found the entries. I'm gonna tell you when
I started thinking about the sobriety was when I went
(15:06):
to the Paris Olympics. There was no alcohol at any
of the games, at any of the gymnasiums. No alcohol. Well,
and I found that people were present. There were no
drunk drunken fights because you fighting, you know, you rooting
for your country and this one rooting for you getting
into these arguments. I mean, it was the most peaceful
and pleasant experience I had at a sporting event.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Wow, and not even yeah, I wouldn't even think that
how present you could be without the alcohol.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
It's very present.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Wow, you know, speak about being present. I've known you
and Tracy for a number of years. You guys love
each other out loud. Most people don't have what you
guys have, the years of friendship that you guys have.
Like I'm usually talking to people that are changing friends
every two to three years and then best friends. How
(16:00):
important has the friendship for you on your healing journey?
Because I often tell clients or just even in my
circle that you can't heal without a community. How important
is the friendship and having people who can be present.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, well she's been. She's been very important for me
throughout our friendship throughout life because I was the hot head.
You know, I'm like cush that bitch in the throat,
and she like bring it to zero, come back, find
your zero, you know what I mean. She's a labor
so she actually balanced me. And I'm a Virgo and
I get heady and I'm very analytical, and so she
(16:41):
helped me work through that. As a kid and we
can be very judgmental, she worked with me on that.
So I'm a very conscious virgo, you know what I mean.
I know how to check myself on that. Part of
my astrological side shows up, you know. What I mean
because of her, you know, she you know, and going
through what I go through in the industry, it's good
(17:04):
to have someone to check in on me because I'm
good at pretending. I have to, you know, I have
to show up to work and put on that smile
even though I'm dying inside, you know what I mean.
And so because I have someone who understands that, just
by the sound of my hello, she will pull up.
You know, Pam, you met Pam. She will pull up
(17:25):
like you don't sound right. I don't care what's going
on out there. I need to come look at them eyes,
you know. And it's important to have people like that
because it's easy to isolate. It's so easy, and I can.
I isolate. Well, I told you where I live, on
the hilltop, away from everything. But you know what I'm saying.
So you have to have people to check on you
(17:48):
because sometimes I don't even know that I'm not right
until she breaks because I'm so used to being.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
On you know.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
She was like, you good, and I'm like, yeah, I'm good.
She's like, no, you're not, and then that forces me
to check, you know what. I'm a little I do
feel a little off. You know, so it's very important.
I said that to the kids out at Copa University yesterday.
I was like, y'all check on each other. Don't let
don't let your friends or your you know, people in
your circle suffer if they don't sound right, don't look
(18:17):
like check on them. Pull up. Yeah, you could be
saving a life.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
You know. That's what I miss most about the elders. Yeah,
it's My grandmother used to say, baby, come by and
let me lay eyes on you. And here's how they
knew that something was going on, because you would stay away. Yep,
because the moment they saw you, you know that they
would see. And we need people that will call us
and say, let me lay eyes on me and to
(18:43):
feel your energy and to feel where your spirit is.
And I see you know, there's the Surgeon General Vivik
talks a lot about this epidemic of loneliness that we
have and there's so many lonely people. That's such loneliness.
And we would think that we're more connected because we
have phones, but as I like to say, I think
we are overly connected but underly commune because we don't
(19:06):
have real connections. You know, we don't have real people
that really have this level of sagaciousness desernment to say,
you know what, some is off with you? Yep. And
when we don't have that, this is why we have
a lot of people who just feel nobody cares and
I think they're not giving the space for people. How
(19:29):
important am And I want this to really be loud,
for sisters to hear that it's okay to allow yourself
to be truly seen, and men to be seen to say, hey,
I need somebody to sit with me.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I think we have, especially Black people, we have been
trained and conditioned through our trauma to be strong and
put on this front like I'm good, I'm good. But
I always say the strength is in vulnerability. You know,
when you're able to be vulnerable and speak your truth,
(20:06):
that's what draws more people in because people are afraid
to do that. You know a lot of people are
afraid to do that. But you have to because being
strong all the time will break you. We're not buildings
were we are not here. We're not built like a
structure like this. We're not supposed to be strong all
(20:27):
the time. Yeah, there's sometimes when you have to pull
it together, but you can't do that all the time,
and it's humanly impossible.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
It is it is all right. I want to ask
you this. You started the Board's Hitsion Foundation because of
your dad, and who was.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
A man who was very strong but was not afraid
to be vulnerable. He would cry, he would talk about
when he didn't feel right. I mean, he wore his
heart on his sleeve. He was incredible. I miss him
so much.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I'm sorry. Oh no, no, you're good. No, yeah, And
I'm glad that you share that knowing with what you've done,
and you have pioneered a space in the mental health
ram and you have created opportunities for these conversations. I
often say it was you and Charlotmagne who really championed
the space for blacks because no one had never seen
(21:24):
any one of you, guys, caliper be open about your challenges.
What would your dad say today if he could see
the Workers show.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
And not be honest? Because is anybody gonna be offended
with the N word? He called everybody nigga? You be
like little nigga. I'm proud of you. That's exactly. I
can hear him in my dream sometimes he comes to
me so vividly in my that's another thing I hadn't
dreampt about my father and so long, and I stopped drinking,
and I've been having very lucid dreams where I see him,
(21:56):
I hear him. The last dream I had about him,
he had come to visit. This is the only house
he had never seen passed away before I got this house,
and he was, Hey, come to visit, and he was
building hedges around all my windows. He was like, nah,
because they're building them all down the way. You know,
the little niggas gonna be trying to come up here,
rob you. So I had to participate. That was him
(22:16):
letting me know in spirit he's still protastrophe. Yeah, but
that's what he would say.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Wow, I love it. I love it. Hey, little nigga,
you doing it? That sound like that sounds like my grandmama.
Well man, that that is so beautiful. This question I
asked all the guests and I asked this question. This
(22:42):
podcast is just here with doctor j. You've been open
about your healing journey. I've been opened by my healing journey.
And I asked myself this question, and uh, it was
one that I had to take a deep breath and
deep side. When you think of healing. What does healing
(23:03):
means to you? To to lodge? We see?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Well, I tell you this, It ain't all pretty, you know,
because you're gonna have to open up some scars that hurt,
and you're gonna have to go to some ugly places.
But the only way to get through it is to
get through it. You can't go under it, you can't
go over you can't avoid it because eventually it's gonna implode.
(23:29):
Eventually it's gonna overtake you. So you have to go
through the muck to get through to the other side.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
They always say, I know it's cliche. After every storm
the sun comes out, God go through the storm first,
you know, But that's how That's how you have to undo,
and undoing sometimes can be very uncomfortable. You have to
have very uncomfortable conversations with yourself, with people you know
who helped with the trauma. But you know it's it
(24:00):
can be tough, and but you can do it. You know,
if I could do it, it, Jay can do it. You
can do it because it's in you to do it
and it's your responsibility. Yes, you know, you can't keep
blaming everybody, especially at a big grown age. At some
point you have to take responsibility for your healing. You must, Yes,
you know.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Do you feel a lot of people are afraid to
take it?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Absolutely, because they're scared to go through the storm. You know,
they think somehow sweeping things under the carpet is gonna
make it good.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
But you know, and as I said, just because you hot,
it doesn't mean it's not there.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
It's always there. It comes out in ways, you know,
it comes it manifests itself in how you deal with people.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
That part.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
If you're drinking too heavy, you're smoking a little too much, like,
all of that is escapism. If you're going out eating
too much sex, I mean, it's it manifests itself in
all kinds of ways. So you gotta deal with it.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yes, you gotta deal with it because if you don't
deal with it, gonna deal with you. It's gonna deal
with you.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
And deal with you, and it's going to affect your health.
You have a nervous system.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Come on, talk about it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
And I'm not a scientist. I'm not a doctor to
talk about it, but I am a doctor. But you know,
because I what is it what honorary?
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yes, yes, you are.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Right, but I'm not that kind. But I do know
you have a nervous system and your your body listens
to your brain, you know, and so if you're not
feeding yourself good information, it's going to show up in
your body. You said what I want you look good?
What fountain you're drinking from? I said, the fountain of peace, peace,
(25:37):
the found piece that I protect my piece at all call.
If you not on a healing journey, I can't talk
to you. But bye, I can't. I can't do it.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I can't do it because it costs too much.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
It cost me my peace, and I'm not willing to
give that up. I finally got here. You understand what
I'm saying. Yes, you better exhale. I finally got here,
not hard and how long and how much stuff I
had to go do to get here, Like, I finally
got here, and I'm just not gonna let anybody disturb
me from my peace.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah. See when I tell you, I love that for
you and to see your journey. And that's really what
I was telling CJ. I said, Man, I really want
us all to get to a place where we're just
not stuck on survival. Yeah, and we're not stuck on,
(26:33):
you know, just trying to figure it out each time
and just like allowing ourselves to have this level of
peace where we know what it's like to just breath.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's gonna take us to heal us,
you know what I mean. Nobody's gonna come and save us. Yeah,
you know. And I think what we're doing, the work
that we're doing, is so important because we're allowing people
to the freedom to feel the fear and to talk
about it in the open, because once upon a time,
(27:03):
this wasn't talked about like that.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
No, it wasn't. You know.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Everybody's pretending to be strong and like they have it together,
especially celebrities or people in the limelight, because people on
the outside look in and think, oh, they have everything.
Let me tell you something like the Great Guru Biggie
Small said, more money, more problems, because money does not
do the rich people, the filthy rids. They're the most unhealed,
(27:31):
unhealthy folk walking the universe because money can't fix it.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
It can't. Bishop Jakes told me this is recently. He said,
I was telling him about the podcast and he was
excited and everything I'm doing, and he looked at me
and he said, you don't realize how much we needed.
He said, I don't know that. He said, you know
what type of people I'm connected to? Jay, He said,
(27:56):
I don't know anybody that's at peace right now. Listen,
And I mean he was in this in his fashion.
I don't know anybody that's at peace. You gotta do this,
And I'm like vicious because he said, think about celebrities
and the entertainers and all these high level especially for
black people who are under this umbrella of black excellence
(28:19):
that I think oftentimes is really blanket in black anxiety.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Mm ooh or chill? Would not my son say that.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Because there's this pressure to keep performing. Yeah, And he said,
I don't know anybody that's at peace right now. So
to hear you come in and say, I'm drinking for
from the fountain of peace.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Baby, Listen, I'm not even dating right now. Somebody's like,
you're not dating. No, I'm not dealing with nobody's unhealed. Son.
Can I get an amen?
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Hallelu hallelou because I'm telling you I've had my house renovated,
right and I found this incredible black full out of
the South to come in to design the interior and
they are incredible.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
But I told them in the beginning, I said, I
wanted to look like a straight girl house when you
come in here. If I start dating, I don't want
no dude to feel like, oh yeah, I can know
you can't move up in here. In fact, guess what,
I don't even have a drawer for your stuff. I
don't have a drawer because my stuff is in all
the drawers. So pack your bag when you come, and
pack it up when you go. And you know, I'm
(29:29):
even thinking about like the marriage thing, like, I don't
even know if I need the stresses of that in
my life. A lot of lifetime partner for sure, but
at this big old age, I'm not having kids. You
know what I'm saying, I want a partner. I don't
know if I want the papers to go. I don't
know if I want that. No, I'm not saying I
(29:51):
don't want a man. I need to be very clear
with you.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
But that's real, though, Tie, That's real because at this
season and at this juncture, the work you've done, and
I often tell people the work that you've done, you
would have to undo this to deal with somebody who
hasn't done work, who's afraid to do work, and then
who's not really committed to.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
The work, And I'm not willing to do that.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
They'll start going to therapy just because you talked about it,
but you're not really committed. Because if you know, you're
really going to therapy because I brought it up, but
you're not really interested in growing and evolving. And if
you're not with somebody that is committed to their own journey, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Then I can't help you because I'm not willing to
give up my piece. I fought too hard to get here.
I'm just not willing I even do this. Like you know,
there's certain things that I will go to in the
industry and certain things that I want. The first question
I ask is is this going to cost me any
parts of my piece? Because if it is, I don't
(30:54):
have to go. I don't have to go. I don't care.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
It's funny you say that because I started telling my
manager that I said to leave my house. Now you
got to pay me to leave my peace because my
home I've created such serene. Just it's it's I'm living
my place overlooked the water. It's just if I leave, man,
and it's not even about the bag anymore.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I was about to say that because it could be
a bag, and I'd be like that sounds like chaos.
Give it to somebody else. I've turned down jobs as
there's directors.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I just.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Energy is transferable, and so what I do as an
artist like I have to open up chakras. I let
these characters come inside my body and use my body
as a vessel to tell their story. That's a very
vulnerable place to be. So if I don't feel like
I'm protected, if I don't feel like I'm going to
be protecting an environment that is nurturing to the process,
(31:53):
I will turn it down. No, that's right, because I can't.
I can't sacrifice myself like that.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
For y'all, especially for these up and coming artists who
feel like they have to listen. If I haven't learned
anything else on my journey from you, from Tracy, from
all of the people that mentored me. They always say, man,
be very particular about what you say yes to.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Everything, ain't about a dollar, Like, be careful what you
ask for. You'd be very specific, be very clear on
what you're asking for. Like these kids, they see the limelight,
they see they don't realize we're still real people going
through real stuff. Like it's not just you become an
actor and all of a sudden life is pristine and
it's no you go, you put on the show, and
(32:45):
then you still go back home to the mess you left.
That's you know. I think it's harder for what we
do because we have to show up and pretend like everything.
So there have been times when I was going through
hell in scenes that you've seen me in movies, my
life was in shambles, but I had to pretend like
(33:08):
everything was okay. That is the hardest thing to do,
and it is it is. It strips your soul. I
can't explain it. You just there were times where I
just felt so empty and lost, you know, because because
there was no safe landing for me, it was always
show up. You gotta be on, You gotta show the
(33:30):
people everything's okay, and it's like, but I'm not. I'm
not okay.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
You know, as you're talking, one of the characters that
stand out to me when you were was talking about
just being at a place where it's like your life
is in shamble. The other that I was watching hustling Flow, Oh,
and that character I mean, was just I mean, you
can you can see this pushing, this pull, but you
(33:57):
can see this love, you can see this care, but
you can also see the vulnerability because she was at
you know what I mean, you know his you know,
at the mercy of him of DJ. Was that like
and it's just a little bit about that. How was that?
Because I'm sure there's this war between the character and
(34:22):
the reality, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Well, for me, when I first got the script, I
remember John Sinkings and May recipes I miss you so much.
He was like, I need your eyes. He always told
me about my eyes. He was like, you don't have
to do much. You just have to think it and
the camera's gonna do the rest. Because I came from theaters,
I was very big, but I and I'm glad he
(34:44):
said it like that. And he was like, you picked
the character you want to play. And of course Lexus,
the loud mouth with the blind hair, that character. Of
course she jumped off the page because she was loud
about it. But when he said I need your eyes
is very specific, and that's when I leaned into Shug
because she was the quiet mouse. And then I started
(35:06):
thinking about the women who choose, because I don't think
people some women are forced into sex working and some
choose to do that, you know. But I started thinking
about her, and I was thinking about this one in particular,
and I was thinking about ooh who didn't love her?
(35:27):
Because she just seemed like someone who did not feel seen. Yes, yes, right, yeah,
And that's how I played it. I played the y
and so for her to turn tricks, it was her
way of giving love because no one loved her. And
so that's what you saw in her. And I was like,
I want people to want to reach through this screen
(35:49):
and hug her. Yes, I said, I want people to
see this diamond in the rough, because that's where all
people who aren't seen. They are diamonds. We're all diamonds.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
You know.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
It takes pressure to make a diamond, right, But if
you're not saying and no one takes kid, find the
diamond and dust it off, and you know, then it'll
just be a dirty rock, right. And so that's how
I played her. I played the why, and that's why.
That's how you gain the empathy of an audience, even
with the worst character in the world, a villain. If
you play the why, then the audience will feel for
(36:19):
even the villain. Yes, you know, but there's always a
why a person is the way they are, you know.
But I just knew that she had been through a
lot of mistreatment and abuse probably and just thrown away
and tossed the side and treated like property.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
That's why that moment in the studio when she hears
her voice for the first time is like.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Look, oh man, that when I tell you that part
broke me. Because I'm thinking from a healing perspective, is
that most people just want to know that their voice matters.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Right, Because the director was very smart, Craig Brewer, I
love you, but the director was very smart because I
remember I did this and he ran in and whispered
in mind. He said, put your hand on your mouth,
and I did that, and it was almost like that
came out of my mouth, like so he was tracking
what I was thinking. You know, that was a very
(37:16):
special project for me, and I got paid nothing for it,
but those independent films you do it for other reasons.
You know. It was the story for me.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
But all of that, and as you talk, all of
that just just really stood out for me because it
was the first time that I ever watched the film
from a clinical or from a psychoanalytical perspective, and I
was looking at the characters because sometime I do that
because it really helps me to really connect with people,
even in speaking, because most people, if you have not
(37:49):
been seen, if you have not been heard, you don't
feel valuable. And in that moment, Shug felt like, Hey,
I'm somebody.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
I could be somebody, I could do something, I could
do more than what I'm doing, Like you saw her
come alive.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
That's what you have done for so many people in
the mental health space.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Thank you. I hope so.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
No, there's no hope. You you have done that. You
have helped so many people heal, and especially during the
time of the pandemic where people needed somebody to talk to.
I believe people wasn't just looking for therapy. People just
was looking for space where they can share unapologetically and
(38:30):
just to really have have an environment where it's like, man,
I don't have to be whatever roles or titles that
I've and I just want to say thank you for
taking out the time to come on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Just you knew I was coming.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Listen, listen, I know, I love you, I love I
made your love you and Tracy, y'all. It has been
so amazing. And it was y'all because when when Will
reached out about the podcast, and I'm telling you, I
was just like, man, I don't know if I want
to do it. I didn't know if it would be
a space because.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I was like, oh, I was going to make you
do it. Because he came to my trailer where we
were on fight night. He was like, do you know
any men who are in the mental health But I said,
I sure do right now, and I sent them your page.
I said, this is the guy you want. I said,
he already has an audience, the men already trust him.
You know nothing, it's not new new. I said, that's
who you want. Tap him right away. Well I didn't
(39:29):
even pause when he asked.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
And I appreciate it, and I just want to say
thank you and keep being a light that you are
to the world because in this climate we need it.
And I like to acknowledge not what you do, which
is who you are, because acting is just that that's
a gift, but who you are as a person, because
(39:54):
you have to have a real heart to care about
more than just yourself and what you've done with the
foundation and even what you continue to do, you care
about more than just yourself. And I know your father
is proud to do this in the honor of him,
and then just for us as a people who need
so much healing. But you have blazer trail for us
(40:17):
to do it and to continue to doing it because again,
it was a black woman and it would be you
go down in history to Roger started his movement. So
I just want to say thank you for starting the
movement and allow me to be a part of it.
So yeah, absolutely so again to all of my healers, listen,
please subscribe. You can watch Just Heal Doctor J on
(40:38):
my YouTube channel Just Heal Doctor J. Or you can
listen audibly on The Black Effect and iHeart Just Heal
with Doctor J. And until next time, remember healing is
a journey and wholeness is the destination. Just Heal with
Doctor J a production of The Black Effect podcast Network.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
(41:00):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
And you can follow me at King J. Barnett on
Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube. Just here
Doctor J.
Welcome to Jesshill with Doctor J, a production of the
Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to another
episode of Just Hell with Doctor J. And I am
your host, Doctor J. Barnett, and I'm excited about today's guests.
I have my great friend, you know her as missus Cookie,
but I know her as Tea and all of the
(00:21):
many characters that we have been blessed to see her play.
But today we want to have a conversation about healing,
and as y'all know, when you come into the Healing community,
we're talking about things that are impactful for our journey,
that can impact our life. And I'm so happy to
have my friend tagip Henson joining me with the Healing
(00:42):
Community day. Welcome, Thank you listen. I am excited about
this episode and this episode I think that's going to
be transformed because May is mental health money and we
have been working together for a number of years under
the bors Henson Foundation in free therapy to black men
and black women. And I just think this conversation is
(01:07):
not had enough, even though we're talking about it more.
But before I start into the conversation, I always ask
every guest, I don't ask them how they're doing. I
ask them, how are you feeling.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I'm feeling blessed today, really happy, and I'm excited about
today because you know, of course we're having our symposium
and we're helping the kids. And I actually used to
go to oxen Hille High School really, so I feel
really good about giving back to them in this way.
Before we start, can I just say I'm proud of you,
(01:41):
black man.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I'm just really really proud of you.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I am thank you, thank you, And listen, I want
to say this to everybody. Y'all only know me because
of the riot, well like for real, and so I
have to say I'm I'm I'm humble because it was
a black woman. It was you I think came across
one in my videos and then your team reached out
(02:06):
to me. This is what twenty twenty. This was twenty twenty. Yeah, yeah,
and we did the Breakfast Club virtual at that time,
and I just want to say thank you for seeing
me and for providing the opportunity for the world to
know my voice and not just my story, but the
(02:26):
voice and the impact that I would have on black men.
It was you, and this is why we need.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Black women and we need y'all.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So we need each other. We need each other, and
I wish, you know, we could settle these these these
wars that we have and online because we're so needed
in just building each other.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah for sure, Yeah sure, So you.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Know you feel blessed. You look amazing. I don't know
what you're drinking and what you're doing, but you look amazing.
Like I know, you take trips to Bali and body
is your place to really get away in the check
out what has that been for your healing journey.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
It's a place. It's a great place to recenter because
it's not a place about vanity. You know a lot
of times when you go overseas, it's about shopping and
this and that, and that's not where you go for that.
It's literally eat, pray, love. The people are beautiful. They
pray over everything, they pray over you. It's a lot
of yoga. I mean, the food is from the earth,
everything is clean eating. I just feel so nurtured. We
(03:39):
call it mother Boy because the land is so nurturing.
But that's just that has become my place to go
when I need to recenter, Yeah, get away from it all,
because it's very far.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Now when you go, how long are you gone?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
The first time I stayed for a month. The second
time I went for like two and a half weeks. Yeah,
it's not a quick trip because it takes about twenty
four hours to get there.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Wow. Wow. And when you go there and you resenter yourself,
how does your spirit feels to step away from America?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Let me just tell you this. The first time I went,
I landed at some weird hour in the morning. They
had a herbal bath waiting for me. I took it.
It was like four o'clock in the morning. By the
time I unpacked and got in a bed, I slept
for twelve hours. Can I tell you the last time
I slept through like twelve straight hours? I since probably
(04:34):
went my twenties when I was going to the clubs
and stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, twelve straight hours. And I never could sleep that
peacefully in the States.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Wow. Do you feel because of the chaos and the
noise is why many of us can't rest?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Absolutely? I literally remember after my month stay, it felt
like it went so fast, and I remember I was
crying packing coming back. I did not want to come back.
As soon as I got back to America, it was
a mass shooting in Chinatown, and La I.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Was like, and I remember texting you when you come back,
and you was just saying I did not want to
come back, and not want to come back, did not.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Want to come I heard a doctor say, if you
ever find yourself diagnosed with cancer and you want to survive,
the first thing you got to do is leave America.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
What.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yes, he said, that's the first thing you have to do.
He didn't go into the medicines, he didn't go into
holistic he said, the first thing you must do is
leave America.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Wow. You know, I'm writing this book and it's titled
I actually just got agreed to the terms. This is
my first major book deal. And I'm excited about this
this because the book is about pursuing pace. The subtitle
(06:00):
is in a world that's not slowing down. And as
you were speaking about the doctor saying you got to
leave here, we're in such a hurry and there's such
stress that we have day to day. And I'm saying
to myself, how do we ever find pace? How do
you create pace in your busy world?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I where I live is very peaceful. My house sits
on the hill away from the noise. I don't hear
any street traffic. It's my sanctuary. And I had a
friend who's very clairvoyant say that he saw like Native
Americans around the property in spirit protecting it. So I
(06:43):
would have friends flying from out of town and they
would come in all stress and they come to my
house and they would be like, oh my god, I
just feel so peaceful. And when I was living in Chicago,
I would, you know, working on that show could be
kind of crazy. When I was on Empire, I would
go to laid back to my house to regather myself.
So that's literally my sanctuary is home. I have two dogs.
(07:07):
I just got a new puppy. Lord, why did I
do that? Yes, I have Frenchies, two Frenchies, and they're
my joy. You know, simple things, nothing you know, theything'
about going to a spa or any of that. I
work out a lot, which for me is more is
more about my mental than this the aesthetics, you know,
because it releases those good endorphins, you know, so simple,
(07:32):
keeping everything really simple, you know, I have my playroom,
which is my salon. When I was a little girl,
we couldn't afford nothing, and so I always promised myself
when I got older, I would I would make a
room where I could play, and I would buy all
the things that I couldn't afford when I was a kid.
And it's my salon and I have my little dog
heads that I go in there and I work. It's
(07:55):
just where I gotta want to tell all my business.
But yes, my I mean I could be the world
could be burning up and I'd be in my salon
having fun with my doll heads.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Like I like that because it's almost like you get
to connect back to the little girl.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Absolutely. I reached out to Tyler Perry one time. I said,
while the world is burning up, I'm in here watching
my Dea movies and I turned the camera around and
show He said, Wow, Toaji, that's you protected letting that
taking care of that little TJ little girl.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And I was like, absolutely, Oh God, this is this
is so rich because I'm sitting here thinking about, you know,
childhood wounds and childhood traumas and all those different things.
And I don't think we realize as we're aging that
we're either doing one or two things. We're either running
from the little boy or little girl, or we're trying
to replace or give the little boy a little girl
(08:50):
what they didn't have at that particular time. And as
you were talking about sitting there and playing with the
doll heads, does that bring a level of peace to
the little girl inside of you?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I forget. I don't my office be trying to reach
me and the phone will be buzzing, and I get
annoyed because I don't want to deal with that, and
then I'll be like hello, They like, you gotta come
out of that room. You have to answer these questions.
You gotta sign these documents, and they know when they
can't find me, they know that's where I am. You know,
(09:25):
it just brings me so much peace and joy. And
that's where I was during the pandemic, like I literally
stayed in my salon.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Is that how you got through the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
That's how I got through it.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a
part of us also reconnecting to our childhood. It's some
sort you.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Said, I look how youthful I look because I never
let that little girl inside of me die. I go
outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play
like a kid. I laugh. You know, I love jokes.
I love funny, I love laughing. I laugh at myself.
I don't take myself too seriously. That's the stuff that
keeps you young and stops you from being so hard.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, because I was reading, I was doing something about
black men and aging, and this new data said the
average life expectancy for black men is sixty one point five,
ten years less of white males, which is seventy two.
And we're not. You know, we always hear a black
(10:27):
don't crack, right, but internally we're cracking. And when you're
talking about aging, what has been one of the ways
that you realize that it's the secret to remaining youthful.
As we're aging and as we are evolving. What things
are you doing? I know you're working out. I know
you go to Bali to retreat. What other things have
(10:50):
you discovered?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Going to bed at seven?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I love it. Listen when I tell you, on Friday nights,
I am so excited to go to bed, like o'clock
on Friday.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
That's every night. And so my mother clowned me one
time because I caught FaceTime and she's like, you were
in bed already it was seven o'clock, and I was like, uh, yeah,
I'm telling you, this is my favorite time of the day.
I be dancing to the bed man in that something.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And I remember when we was kid, you hated it,
hate it.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Hate. Some nights, I'm in bed by six thirty because
I'm like, I'm done with my day. Like I'm done
answering questions. I'm done answering questions. I'm done, you know,
with the you know emails. I'm just I'm ready to
go to bed. And my dogs are they're so used
to seven. They eat at seven and they go right
to their crates because they know Mama finished shut it down.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Because I was. I was my mom. She goes to
bed at like six thirty or seven, and she said, baby,
the day is over. It's over.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's a bride. What else you want from me?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
What?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
El?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
And I'm laughing because you know, my mom heard her husband,
and you know, she was like, he'll be in there
and going back to the childhood thing. She so he
likes doing puzzles and he likes science projects, so he
like he goes and buys these science projects. And she's like, baby,
I'm been in to bed. I said, what mister Charlie doing.
Oh baby, Charlie there playing with this little tip. She said,
(12:20):
I've gone to bed because I don't think we realized
that we are sleeping, but we don't rest. We're not resting.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, and you know what, I cut out the alcohol too,
you know, not that I was a heavy drinker, but
I just can't recover. I can't recovery even if I
have wine. And next day I'm like, I just and
it's just like, what's the point, you know? So I
enjoyed my mock tails, but I noticed since I stopped drinking,
(12:53):
I have lucid dreams. I can't I can't remember the
last time used to dream like this. And I wake
up the next day and I remember my dreams like
I'll get up in the middle of night, go to
the bathroom, go back to sleep, and continue the dream,
the same dream.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And I've often heard doctors talk about how alcohol, you know,
we don't think about it, even just with wine, but
just how it can be one of the most deadliest
and not just from my physical perspective, but cognitively. The
brain doesn't function the same.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It just does not. It doesn't.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
So for you, what is a good time now when
you go out, you don't you havening mocktail? Is that
enough for you?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
That's enough for me. But see, now we live in
a society where if you're not drinking, something's wrong. Girl,
why are you not drinking? So to remedy that, I
go straight to the bar and I get a celica water,
put a line in it. Bam. So nobody's asking me questions.
But I found out that I can really enjoy myself
sober like i've because you know why, I remember what
(13:52):
I did the night before when I was drinking, and
people be like, girl, remember when you said up like
I said that I did that? Like I don't. I
want to know. I want to know what I did,
like you know. Then as you're aging, I'm like, does
that mean I'm getting Alzheimer's? You know that's the that's
for fear, you know. So you know, once I proved
(14:12):
to myself that I could really still go out and
really enjoy. In fact, I think I had more fun
because I remember it.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, and you're present.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Very present. I have not clocked out. But the people,
the people that are inebriated be talking to me, and
I'm like, you think they really think? They make it sense?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
And you feel like especially.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
But I don't judge, you know exactly, I don't judge.
I just you know, I'm like dag that used to
be me.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Now, let me ask you this. When you were drinking,
do you feel like it was part of just kind
of escaping social Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Absolutely, and it was the thing to do. Like it's
like you going out and drinking is hand in hand,
like even going to dinner and have a grow. First
thing you do is the first thing they offer you.
Would you like for cocktails? Here's the drink menu, you know,
and I found the entries. I'm gonna tell you when
I started thinking about the sobriety was when I went
(15:06):
to the Paris Olympics. There was no alcohol at any
of the games, at any of the gymnasiums. No alcohol. Well,
and I found that people were present. There were no
drunk drunken fights because you fighting, you know, you rooting
for your country and this one rooting for you getting
into these arguments. I mean, it was the most peaceful
and pleasant experience I had at a sporting event.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Wow, and not even yeah, I wouldn't even think that
how present you could be without the alcohol.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
It's very present.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Wow, you know, speak about being present. I've known you
and Tracy for a number of years. You guys love
each other out loud. Most people don't have what you
guys have, the years of friendship that you guys have.
Like I'm usually talking to people that are changing friends
every two to three years and then best friends. How
(16:00):
important has the friendship for you on your healing journey?
Because I often tell clients or just even in my
circle that you can't heal without a community. How important
is the friendship and having people who can be present.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, well she's been. She's been very important for me
throughout our friendship throughout life because I was the hot head.
You know, I'm like cush that bitch in the throat,
and she like bring it to zero, come back, find
your zero, you know what I mean. She's a labor
so she actually balanced me. And I'm a Virgo and
I get heady and I'm very analytical, and so she
(16:41):
helped me work through that. As a kid and we
can be very judgmental, she worked with me on that.
So I'm a very conscious virgo, you know what I mean.
I know how to check myself on that. Part of
my astrological side shows up, you know. What I mean
because of her, you know, she you know, and going
through what I go through in the industry, it's good
(17:04):
to have someone to check in on me because I'm
good at pretending. I have to, you know, I have
to show up to work and put on that smile
even though I'm dying inside, you know what I mean.
And so because I have someone who understands that, just
by the sound of my hello, she will pull up.
You know, Pam, you met Pam. She will pull up
(17:25):
like you don't sound right. I don't care what's going
on out there. I need to come look at them eyes,
you know. And it's important to have people like that
because it's easy to isolate. It's so easy, and I can.
I isolate. Well, I told you where I live, on
the hilltop, away from everything. But you know what I'm saying.
So you have to have people to check on you
(17:48):
because sometimes I don't even know that I'm not right
until she breaks because I'm so used to being.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
On you know.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
She was like, you good, and I'm like, yeah, I'm good.
She's like, no, you're not, and then that forces me
to check, you know what. I'm a little I do
feel a little off. You know, so it's very important.
I said that to the kids out at Copa University yesterday.
I was like, y'all check on each other. Don't let
don't let your friends or your you know, people in
your circle suffer if they don't sound right, don't look
(18:17):
like check on them. Pull up. Yeah, you could be
saving a life.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
You know. That's what I miss most about the elders. Yeah,
it's My grandmother used to say, baby, come by and
let me lay eyes on you. And here's how they
knew that something was going on, because you would stay away. Yep,
because the moment they saw you, you know that they
would see. And we need people that will call us
and say, let me lay eyes on me and to
(18:43):
feel your energy and to feel where your spirit is.
And I see you know, there's the Surgeon General Vivik
talks a lot about this epidemic of loneliness that we
have and there's so many lonely people. That's such loneliness.
And we would think that we're more connected because we
have phones, but as I like to say, I think
we are overly connected but underly commune because we don't
(19:06):
have real connections. You know, we don't have real people
that really have this level of sagaciousness desernment to say,
you know what, some is off with you? Yep. And
when we don't have that, this is why we have
a lot of people who just feel nobody cares and
I think they're not giving the space for people. How
(19:29):
important am And I want this to really be loud,
for sisters to hear that it's okay to allow yourself
to be truly seen, and men to be seen to say, hey,
I need somebody to sit with me.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I think we have, especially Black people, we have been
trained and conditioned through our trauma to be strong and
put on this front like I'm good, I'm good. But
I always say the strength is in vulnerability. You know,
when you're able to be vulnerable and speak your truth,
(20:06):
that's what draws more people in because people are afraid
to do that. You know a lot of people are
afraid to do that. But you have to because being
strong all the time will break you. We're not buildings
were we are not here. We're not built like a
structure like this. We're not supposed to be strong all
(20:27):
the time. Yeah, there's sometimes when you have to pull
it together, but you can't do that all the time,
and it's humanly impossible.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
It is it is all right. I want to ask
you this. You started the Board's Hitsion Foundation because of
your dad, and who was.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
A man who was very strong but was not afraid
to be vulnerable. He would cry, he would talk about
when he didn't feel right. I mean, he wore his
heart on his sleeve. He was incredible. I miss him
so much.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I'm sorry. Oh no, no, you're good. No, yeah, And
I'm glad that you share that knowing with what you've done,
and you have pioneered a space in the mental health
ram and you have created opportunities for these conversations. I
often say it was you and Charlotmagne who really championed
the space for blacks because no one had never seen
(21:24):
any one of you, guys, caliper be open about your challenges.
What would your dad say today if he could see
the Workers show.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
And not be honest? Because is anybody gonna be offended
with the N word? He called everybody nigga? You be
like little nigga. I'm proud of you. That's exactly. I
can hear him in my dream sometimes he comes to
me so vividly in my that's another thing I hadn't
dreampt about my father and so long, and I stopped drinking,
and I've been having very lucid dreams where I see him,
(21:56):
I hear him. The last dream I had about him,
he had come to visit. This is the only house
he had never seen passed away before I got this house,
and he was, Hey, come to visit, and he was
building hedges around all my windows. He was like, nah,
because they're building them all down the way. You know,
the little niggas gonna be trying to come up here,
rob you. So I had to participate. That was him
(22:16):
letting me know in spirit he's still protastrophe. Yeah, but
that's what he would say.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Wow, I love it. I love it. Hey, little nigga,
you doing it? That sound like that sounds like my grandmama.
Well man, that that is so beautiful. This question I
asked all the guests and I asked this question. This
(22:42):
podcast is just here with doctor j. You've been open
about your healing journey. I've been opened by my healing journey.
And I asked myself this question, and uh, it was
one that I had to take a deep breath and
deep side. When you think of healing. What does healing
(23:03):
means to you? To to lodge? We see?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Well, I tell you this, It ain't all pretty, you know,
because you're gonna have to open up some scars that hurt,
and you're gonna have to go to some ugly places.
But the only way to get through it is to
get through it. You can't go under it, you can't
go over you can't avoid it because eventually it's gonna implode.
(23:29):
Eventually it's gonna overtake you. So you have to go
through the muck to get through to the other side.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
They always say, I know it's cliche. After every storm
the sun comes out, God go through the storm first,
you know, But that's how That's how you have to undo,
and undoing sometimes can be very uncomfortable. You have to
have very uncomfortable conversations with yourself, with people you know
who helped with the trauma. But you know it's it
(24:00):
can be tough, and but you can do it. You know,
if I could do it, it, Jay can do it. You
can do it because it's in you to do it
and it's your responsibility. Yes, you know, you can't keep
blaming everybody, especially at a big grown age. At some
point you have to take responsibility for your healing. You must, Yes,
you know.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Do you feel a lot of people are afraid to
take it?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Absolutely, because they're scared to go through the storm. You know,
they think somehow sweeping things under the carpet is gonna
make it good.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
But you know, and as I said, just because you hot,
it doesn't mean it's not there.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
It's always there. It comes out in ways, you know,
it comes it manifests itself in how you deal with people.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
That part.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
If you're drinking too heavy, you're smoking a little too much, like,
all of that is escapism. If you're going out eating
too much sex, I mean, it's it manifests itself in
all kinds of ways. So you gotta deal with it.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yes, you gotta deal with it because if you don't
deal with it, gonna deal with you. It's gonna deal
with you.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
And deal with you, and it's going to affect your health.
You have a nervous system.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Come on, talk about it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
And I'm not a scientist. I'm not a doctor to
talk about it, but I am a doctor. But you know,
because I what is it what honorary?
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yes, yes, you are.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Right, but I'm not that kind. But I do know
you have a nervous system and your your body listens
to your brain, you know, and so if you're not
feeding yourself good information, it's going to show up in
your body. You said what I want you look good?
What fountain you're drinking from? I said, the fountain of peace, peace,
(25:37):
the found piece that I protect my piece at all call.
If you not on a healing journey, I can't talk
to you. But bye, I can't. I can't do it.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I can't do it because it costs too much.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
It cost me my peace, and I'm not willing to
give that up. I finally got here. You understand what
I'm saying. Yes, you better exhale. I finally got here,
not hard and how long and how much stuff I
had to go do to get here, Like, I finally
got here, and I'm just not gonna let anybody disturb
me from my peace.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah. See when I tell you, I love that for
you and to see your journey. And that's really what
I was telling CJ. I said, Man, I really want
us all to get to a place where we're just
not stuck on survival. Yeah, and we're not stuck on,
(26:33):
you know, just trying to figure it out each time
and just like allowing ourselves to have this level of
peace where we know what it's like to just breath.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's gonna take us to heal us,
you know what I mean. Nobody's gonna come and save us. Yeah,
you know. And I think what we're doing, the work
that we're doing, is so important because we're allowing people
to the freedom to feel the fear and to talk
about it in the open, because once upon a time,
(27:03):
this wasn't talked about like that.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
No, it wasn't. You know.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Everybody's pretending to be strong and like they have it together,
especially celebrities or people in the limelight, because people on
the outside look in and think, oh, they have everything.
Let me tell you something like the Great Guru Biggie
Small said, more money, more problems, because money does not
do the rich people, the filthy rids. They're the most unhealed,
(27:31):
unhealthy folk walking the universe because money can't fix it.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
It can't. Bishop Jakes told me this is recently. He said,
I was telling him about the podcast and he was
excited and everything I'm doing, and he looked at me
and he said, you don't realize how much we needed.
He said, I don't know that. He said, you know
what type of people I'm connected to? Jay, He said,
(27:56):
I don't know anybody that's at peace right now. Listen,
And I mean he was in this in his fashion.
I don't know anybody that's at peace. You gotta do this,
And I'm like vicious because he said, think about celebrities
and the entertainers and all these high level especially for
black people who are under this umbrella of black excellence
(28:19):
that I think oftentimes is really blanket in black anxiety.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Mm ooh or chill? Would not my son say that.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Because there's this pressure to keep performing. Yeah, And he said,
I don't know anybody that's at peace right now. So
to hear you come in and say, I'm drinking for
from the fountain of peace.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Baby, Listen, I'm not even dating right now. Somebody's like,
you're not dating. No, I'm not dealing with nobody's unhealed. Son.
Can I get an amen?
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Hallelu hallelou because I'm telling you I've had my house renovated,
right and I found this incredible black full out of
the South to come in to design the interior and
they are incredible.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
But I told them in the beginning, I said, I
wanted to look like a straight girl house when you
come in here. If I start dating, I don't want
no dude to feel like, oh yeah, I can know
you can't move up in here. In fact, guess what,
I don't even have a drawer for your stuff. I
don't have a drawer because my stuff is in all
the drawers. So pack your bag when you come, and
pack it up when you go. And you know, I'm
(29:29):
even thinking about like the marriage thing, like, I don't
even know if I need the stresses of that in
my life. A lot of lifetime partner for sure, but
at this big old age, I'm not having kids. You
know what I'm saying, I want a partner. I don't
know if I want the papers to go. I don't
know if I want that. No, I'm not saying I
(29:51):
don't want a man. I need to be very clear
with you.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
But that's real, though, Tie, That's real because at this
season and at this juncture, the work you've done, and
I often tell people the work that you've done, you
would have to undo this to deal with somebody who
hasn't done work, who's afraid to do work, and then
who's not really committed to.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
The work, And I'm not willing to do that.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
They'll start going to therapy just because you talked about it,
but you're not really committed. Because if you know, you're
really going to therapy because I brought it up, but
you're not really interested in growing and evolving. And if
you're not with somebody that is committed to their own journey, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Then I can't help you because I'm not willing to
give up my piece. I fought too hard to get here.
I'm just not willing I even do this. Like you know,
there's certain things that I will go to in the
industry and certain things that I want. The first question
I ask is is this going to cost me any
parts of my piece? Because if it is, I don't
(30:54):
have to go. I don't have to go. I don't care.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
It's funny you say that because I started telling my
manager that I said to leave my house. Now you
got to pay me to leave my peace because my
home I've created such serene. Just it's it's I'm living
my place overlooked the water. It's just if I leave, man,
and it's not even about the bag anymore.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I was about to say that because it could be
a bag, and I'd be like that sounds like chaos.
Give it to somebody else. I've turned down jobs as
there's directors.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I just.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Energy is transferable, and so what I do as an
artist like I have to open up chakras. I let
these characters come inside my body and use my body
as a vessel to tell their story. That's a very
vulnerable place to be. So if I don't feel like
I'm protected, if I don't feel like I'm going to
be protecting an environment that is nurturing to the process,
(31:53):
I will turn it down. No, that's right, because I can't.
I can't sacrifice myself like that.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
For y'all, especially for these up and coming artists who
feel like they have to listen. If I haven't learned
anything else on my journey from you, from Tracy, from
all of the people that mentored me. They always say, man,
be very particular about what you say yes to.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Everything, ain't about a dollar, Like, be careful what you
ask for. You'd be very specific, be very clear on
what you're asking for. Like these kids, they see the limelight,
they see they don't realize we're still real people going
through real stuff. Like it's not just you become an
actor and all of a sudden life is pristine and
it's no you go, you put on the show, and
(32:45):
then you still go back home to the mess you left.
That's you know. I think it's harder for what we
do because we have to show up and pretend like everything.
So there have been times when I was going through
hell in scenes that you've seen me in movies, my
life was in shambles, but I had to pretend like
(33:08):
everything was okay. That is the hardest thing to do,
and it is it is. It strips your soul. I
can't explain it. You just there were times where I
just felt so empty and lost, you know, because because
there was no safe landing for me, it was always
show up. You gotta be on, You gotta show the
(33:30):
people everything's okay, and it's like, but I'm not. I'm
not okay.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
You know, as you're talking, one of the characters that
stand out to me when you were was talking about
just being at a place where it's like your life
is in shamble. The other that I was watching hustling Flow, Oh,
and that character I mean, was just I mean, you
can you can see this pushing, this pull, but you
(33:57):
can see this love, you can see this care, but
you can also see the vulnerability because she was at
you know what I mean, you know his you know,
at the mercy of him of DJ. Was that like
and it's just a little bit about that. How was that?
Because I'm sure there's this war between the character and
(34:22):
the reality, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Well, for me, when I first got the script, I
remember John Sinkings and May recipes I miss you so much.
He was like, I need your eyes. He always told
me about my eyes. He was like, you don't have
to do much. You just have to think it and
the camera's gonna do the rest. Because I came from theaters,
I was very big, but I and I'm glad he
(34:44):
said it like that. And he was like, you picked
the character you want to play. And of course Lexus,
the loud mouth with the blind hair, that character. Of
course she jumped off the page because she was loud
about it. But when he said I need your eyes
is very specific, and that's when I leaned into Shug
because she was the quiet mouse. And then I started
(35:06):
thinking about the women who choose, because I don't think
people some women are forced into sex working and some
choose to do that, you know. But I started thinking
about her, and I was thinking about this one in particular,
and I was thinking about ooh who didn't love her?
(35:27):
Because she just seemed like someone who did not feel seen. Yes, yes, right, yeah,
And that's how I played it. I played the y
and so for her to turn tricks, it was her
way of giving love because no one loved her. And
so that's what you saw in her. And I was like,
I want people to want to reach through this screen
(35:49):
and hug her. Yes, I said, I want people to
see this diamond in the rough, because that's where all
people who aren't seen. They are diamonds. We're all diamonds.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
You know.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
It takes pressure to make a diamond, right, But if
you're not saying and no one takes kid, find the
diamond and dust it off, and you know, then it'll
just be a dirty rock, right. And so that's how
I played her. I played the why, and that's why.
That's how you gain the empathy of an audience, even
with the worst character in the world, a villain. If
you play the why, then the audience will feel for
(36:19):
even the villain. Yes, you know, but there's always a
why a person is the way they are, you know.
But I just knew that she had been through a
lot of mistreatment and abuse probably and just thrown away
and tossed the side and treated like property.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
That's why that moment in the studio when she hears
her voice for the first time is like.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Look, oh man, that when I tell you that part
broke me. Because I'm thinking from a healing perspective, is
that most people just want to know that their voice matters.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Right, Because the director was very smart, Craig Brewer, I
love you, but the director was very smart because I
remember I did this and he ran in and whispered
in mind. He said, put your hand on your mouth,
and I did that, and it was almost like that
came out of my mouth, like so he was tracking
what I was thinking. You know, that was a very
(37:16):
special project for me, and I got paid nothing for it,
but those independent films you do it for other reasons.
You know. It was the story for me.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
But all of that, and as you talk, all of
that just just really stood out for me because it
was the first time that I ever watched the film
from a clinical or from a psychoanalytical perspective, and I
was looking at the characters because sometime I do that
because it really helps me to really connect with people,
even in speaking, because most people, if you have not
(37:49):
been seen, if you have not been heard, you don't
feel valuable. And in that moment, Shug felt like, Hey,
I'm somebody.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
I could be somebody, I could do something, I could
do more than what I'm doing, Like you saw her
come alive.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
That's what you have done for so many people in
the mental health space.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Thank you. I hope so.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
No, there's no hope. You you have done that. You
have helped so many people heal, and especially during the
time of the pandemic where people needed somebody to talk to.
I believe people wasn't just looking for therapy. People just
was looking for space where they can share unapologetically and
(38:30):
just to really have have an environment where it's like, man,
I don't have to be whatever roles or titles that
I've and I just want to say thank you for
taking out the time to come on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Just you knew I was coming.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Listen, listen, I know, I love you, I love I
made your love you and Tracy, y'all. It has been
so amazing. And it was y'all because when when Will
reached out about the podcast, and I'm telling you, I
was just like, man, I don't know if I want
to do it. I didn't know if it would be
a space because.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I was like, oh, I was going to make you
do it. Because he came to my trailer where we
were on fight night. He was like, do you know
any men who are in the mental health But I said,
I sure do right now, and I sent them your page.
I said, this is the guy you want. I said,
he already has an audience, the men already trust him.
You know nothing, it's not new new. I said, that's
who you want. Tap him right away. Well I didn't
(39:29):
even pause when he asked.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
And I appreciate it, and I just want to say
thank you and keep being a light that you are
to the world because in this climate we need it.
And I like to acknowledge not what you do, which
is who you are, because acting is just that that's
a gift, but who you are as a person, because
(39:54):
you have to have a real heart to care about
more than just yourself and what you've done with the
foundation and even what you continue to do, you care
about more than just yourself. And I know your father
is proud to do this in the honor of him,
and then just for us as a people who need
so much healing. But you have blazer trail for us
(40:17):
to do it and to continue to doing it because again,
it was a black woman and it would be you
go down in history to Roger started his movement. So
I just want to say thank you for starting the
movement and allow me to be a part of it.
So yeah, absolutely so again to all of my healers, listen,
please subscribe. You can watch Just Heal Doctor J on
(40:38):
my YouTube channel Just Heal Doctor J. Or you can
listen audibly on The Black Effect and iHeart Just Heal
with Doctor J. And until next time, remember healing is
a journey and wholeness is the destination. Just Heal with
Doctor J a production of The Black Effect podcast Network.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
(41:00):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
And you can follow me at King J. Barnett on
Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube. Just here
Doctor J.
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