August 12, 2025 • 43 mins
Today on The Breakfast Club, Katrina Brownlee Tells Her Story Of Survival, Domestic Abuse, Resilience. Listen For More!
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Every day. Click up the Breakfast Club, finish for y'all.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Done.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Yes, it's the world's most dangerous morning to show the
Breakfast Club, Charlamagne, the God DJ Envy just hilarious.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
They're not here today, but Lauren.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Lero says in and we have a special guest, the
author of the new book. And then came the Blues,
My story of survival on both sides of the Badge,
A memoir Katrina brown Lee is here.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I am blessed Black and Holly favors. You have a
hell of a story. Where do you want to begin?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Wherever you want to do well?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
The memoir tells the story of you being shot ten
times and overcoming the domestic violence. What helped you find
the courage to not only write this book, but just
to keep fighting for your life and I guess for
your future as well.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Oh gosh, the first thing I say it was God, faith, God, therapy,
and my children. That's what kept me fighting. That's all
I had was nothing else to even look at to say,
you know what I want to fight? Like when you
in survival mode, it's survival. You out there in the
(01:13):
wilderness all by yourself, and you just trying to figure
it out as you go along.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
The tagline of the book is my story of survival
on both sides of the badge talk about, you know,
just the choice to make that the tagline, because there
was one point where you were keeping what you were
going through personally, the violenceeer were experiencing in your work
as a police officer separate.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
So in terms you're speaking in terms of what does
the badge on both sides? I mean, yes, oh, badge
on both sides mean my life of me being abused.
I wasn't just abused in terms of a domestic violence relationship.
And the book it also speaks about how I was
a child abused, child abuse, sexual abused, So I speak
(01:59):
about that, and then I speak about the fact of
me being a detective, being a police officer. So it's
badges on both sides.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
And your ex fiance was a seal, correct, and so
he basically used to abuse his power, correct, put his
hands on your flash his badge and threaten you, you know,
on speaking up right.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I was the inmate and he was the correction officer
at home. That's how it was.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Damn.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Yeah, that's pretty tough. What was it like for you?
Day to day at work, you know, just with everything
that you were experiencing being able to then deal with
other people's issues and showing up for other people, Like,
what was that like mentally for you?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
It was so heavy for so many years because every
day that you go to work, you never know that
if somebody is going to recognize you or remember your story.
Because a few people did, you know, know my story.
It did make the news because at the time he
was a correction officer, So my name was Katrina Cook
(03:04):
at that time, and so it's Brown Lee. So a
lot of people didn't put two and two together. And
then when my story came out, a lot of people
began to reach out to me. So it was just
like a real difficult time just to work, and especially
(03:25):
work in the police department and with how can I
say it, not for but you know, work for an
organization that had failed me. So I went in with
the mindset of that I was going to change this
department and I was going to be this good cop.
But then when you go in you realize that this
(03:47):
is bigger than you. You ain't changing this. You're gonna
follow the rules or deal with the consequence.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
I guess that was my question, Like just in everything
that you were dealt with then deciding to go and
be a part of force, It's like it's so much
that you can't change, but you get there to change it, Like,
but you're also still dealing with your own stuff mentally.
I just maybe my question is why, Like why did
you think that you could break that system down.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Because of all the pain that I had went through,
everything that I had endured, Like, who was gonna save me?
They couldn't. They couldn't save me, So I just try
to save myself. Got you.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
When you when you would call the police and you know,
he would flash his badge and then the officers would
would would leave. Did that just make you feel hopeless?
Like how did you think he was gonna get out
that situation?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I'm to be honest with you. It was gonna either
be me or him, That's how bad it was getting.
And the only reason what kept me from either killing
myself killing him was my children because I was like,
my kids gonna be motherless.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And I guess you know, Lauren was was was getting
at this. But I guess what I want to ask,
how did that betrayal from the police shape your decision
to enter law enforcement yourself, mad.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, I wouldn't want to, but I wouldn't want to
be no cop.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Like because you you call it a blue wall of signs,
we all call it the blue wall, but now you
another brick on that wall.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
To try to answer your question, like I said, like
for me, I needed to be able to be protected.
So in order for me to be protected, I had
to that was one of the ways to be protected.
Like I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna because if
I'm a cop, he they didn't give them a long sentence,
so he's coming out, So is he gonna come out
(05:45):
and finish the job. But if I'm a cop, well
is he not going to do that? He's not going
to behave that way right? And then my thing was,
I want to go in and I want to be
able to shape. I want to clean this place up.
Like I had this mindset because I just believe that
I can go in there, I can change, because I
wanted change because I could not believe that you would
(06:08):
see me with a black eye, you would see me
with a busted lit and you would just say work
it out or you wouldn't even you wouldn't even address me,
and I'm standing there, you don't say anything to me.
But because he showed his shield, he had the right
to what he did.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
What's it like, because we hear a lot about like
when women are in these situations, there's this pattern of
almost feeling like sorry for the person that is abusing
you were like just some sort of like savior, like
you want to save them from like whatever the consequence
may be, because you're trying to figure out like why
it's happening or whatever the case may be. I know
he had tried to call and reach out to you
to have you say he didn't do certain things. Was
(06:48):
there ever a moment where you thought like it would
be best for me to just be quiet about this.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Oh? Absolutely, because I because he was a soul Pavida
fire household. So I thought about it. I was like,
now he in jail, Like I'm gonna take care of myself.
So I became homeless. So I thought about it. But
then I just said to myself, now I'm not doing that,
Like I'm not gonna do that, like it's gonna be
(07:13):
it's whatever at this point. And so you know, and
I speak about it in the book. You know how
his mom had written a letter and shot my name
and said that I had shot myself ten times.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
What How difficult is it to have these conversations?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I mean, because you know when I when I see
your story, and you know, there's certain things I want
to ask, I don't want to trigger you. So how
difficult is it to have these conversations?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
You can ask me whatever?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, if this is if this is a safe space,
you can yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
I mean just talking about it.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And you know you got to relive it because you
had to rewrite, you know, you had to write the book.
And then you know, now you ask me being asked questions.
But you know you were shot ten times and you
were left for dead while you were five months pregnant,
and they said they went it went on for an
hour and a half.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I don't I don't know how long it went on,
honestly because I was in and out of consciousns. I
don't know. I just you know that part was told
to me by the day by the Ada, who now
is one of my good friends.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
How did you rebuild your identity after all of this happened,
after being homeless, after you know, having to break down
after being shot and left for dead, Like, how did
you just rebuild your identity even become the detective that
you became and you were part of the mayor of
security detailers.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, a lot, a lot, a lot of therapy, a
lot of therapy and a lot of God that that
that is what helped me and just the will that
God had given me to just want to live. And
when you get the will to live, then it's that
light on the wall right there up in the ceiling,
(08:56):
and you follow that light and you low that light
to continue to go and that's your strength and that's
your power and then you get your power back. And
so that's what it was for me, because that's all
I had.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Do you truly forgive somebody when they do something that
hangs to you.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I had to because I was angry. I was so bitter.
I was bitter. And when you better at that.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Level, who is some tissue brand.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
When you better at that level, thank you. If you
do not forgive, you become a product of that. And
I just did not want to be that. I was
broken long enough. And in order for you to get
(09:53):
into a situation like that, it had to be a
story that happened. We don't. We don't wake up and
get into these relationships. So I came from transgenerational trauma,
and that's how I wind up in a situation where
a man shoots me ten times and abuse me.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Talk a bit about the chapter Until we Meet Again.
We talk about your mom, and you talk about just
you know, how everything that you went through made you
treat just being able to wake up and live every
single day. Why was it important for you to include
that chapter in the book.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I did not have a relationship with my mother, so
when she died, it was like I got robbed, like
totally robbed, and I will never know what it feels
like to have a mother. So I just felt that
it was important to just speak about that because I
(11:00):
know that I'm not the only one that's out there,
and this book is not just for me. It's for
all people that can be able to relate to my story.
And I just hope that it inspired people. I hope
it can change people life, and I just hope that
even for people that are abuses, that they can go
(11:24):
get help because abuses, they're broken and mental health is real.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
What was the emotional turning point in the writing process
of this book that that just made you feel like
a little lighter.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Because I wasn't able to really tell the story. I
wasn't it. So it was like this was so it
was like I'm finally getting everything out now, Like it
was like I'm being honest, like being constipated, like for
for so many years, I get that up there, you
got right there. Then you go right there that part,
(12:04):
and so that's what I'm telling you. That's exactly how
I felt, and it felt so good, and it feels
good to be able to now be able to speak
my truth and be able to tell the story. Even
I had friends that I had been friends with for
so many years that didn't even know my story. So
you sit out with your girlfriends, you hang out with them,
(12:26):
you travel with them, and they don't even know who
you really are, and you live in this bubble this
world because you you can't really tell because if I
would have told and somebody told the police department, they
were to find me because they wouldn't have want that stigma.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
When you became an officer that you have more empathy
for law enforcement, Like did you realize why they were
the way they were?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Oh? Absolutely, Okay, let me tell you something that people
don't know. The cops, they get abused by the higher
upstare they get I'm telling you, they get abused. So
if you that's just like if you abuse your child, right,
(13:17):
a lot of times your child becomes an abuser. So
that's all it is. They don't get treated well there.
So now if I'm not getting treated well, I'm gonna
go out here and protecting serf. I'm gonna go out
there and protect and be kind to people when I'm
not even being kind at home. The police, that's your home, right,
You there to protecting serf. You there and to go
(13:40):
out there and do your job. But if you if
you're being beat down and you're being told you're a loser,
and you're being told that you ain't right enough summonsens
or you ain't lock enough people up, and then you
get in trouble and if you tell and if you snitch,
the consequences. So how can you go out there and
(14:01):
really be effective?
Speaker 4 (14:04):
What about the stuff that you were seeing aside, like
you talked about like the Chocolate team and the Vanilla team. Yeah,
and the different neighborhoods they would go to. That's right,
And it's well, I guess you should explain it for people,
the difference between the teams. And then I wanted to
ask you about you going to your boss and saying, hey,
they're doing the legal searches. You need to figure that out.
And the boss was like, I'm cool.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, the chocolate team for the black team, and the
vanilla team was the Caucasian team.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
And they went to So like, y'all are in different
neighborhoods or whatever. You decide to you see something that
you know is not right, you decide to go to
your higher up, your higher upsets. I'm not disturbing my
pension to correct a bad cop.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Right because a lot of times if you would tell
its consequences, it's real. It is really real, and this
is your life. You're talking about cops kill theyself all
the time, where you think they killing they self for
a killing they self because because they ain't getting enough
(15:01):
money or enough love. They're killing theirself because it's rail
in there, a lot of guilt and they can't be
who they want to be. They can't be their authentic
self there, so they got to be somebody else and
sometimes people can't handle that. Everybody mental health level is different.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah, I've been having that conversation a lot lately. Like,
you know, I feel like police officers should have, uh
should have to deal with mental health professionals, like literally
every year, every week, Like they should be sitting down
with mental health professionals.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, they have some hotline called Popper, But
I don't even think that those are those are people
that are actually equipped to be able to deal with
the trauma that police officers face every day. That should
be you. You make sure that it's mandatory training for
all these other different things that don't really matter, But
(15:55):
why you don't have mandatory mental health training for your
police officers so they can be suited and booted and
in a good mental state to be out there to
go out there to fight and be able to really
protect and serve. Right. So, if you want to have
a great police department, you gotta have a great police apartment,
and they got to be able to have integrity. You
(16:16):
got to be able to have police said, police officers
be able to just really show up for someone. That's
why I didn't want to be a domestic violence officer.
I was like, I'm not going there and go to
a call and it's a domestic violence officer, and what
I'm going to really do for her or what I'm
gonna really do for him? Come on, it ain't it
(16:38):
ain't it ain't. The system ain't get to help us
like that, especially people that look like us.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Do you even now and share your story in the book,
you talked about switching units because of like just fear
of the things that were happening or whatever.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
And what part are you talking through?
Speaker 4 (16:53):
You talked about You said your arrested I think it
was one hundred and forty five hundred forty seven people.
It was like buses of people, and you were saying
that like being in arcotics was getting a little like
you were fearing for your safety. Oh yeah, Do you
feel for your safety now because you're talking about all
this stuff?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
No, absolutely not. I trust God, you know, I believe
that he has me on an assignment and whatever is
gonna be, it's gonna be. I'm telling the truth. I'm
telling the truth, and I am here on whatever platform
(17:28):
to be able to speak the truth. And so we
got to stop lying to people, you know, we gotta
stop lying like we're not we're not being real with people.
Let's stop lying. Let's start telling the truth, and let's
start really showing up. And if we're not showing up,
(17:52):
then shut up.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
But as you said, though, people are afraid to tell
the truth, especially in that system, because of fear of retaliation.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, well, you know what, Sometimes you gotta do what
you gotta do, right, Sometimes you gotta do what you
gotta do. And I still quiet. And so now now
I get to I get to be able to tell
the truth. So you got to do what you have
to do and be do it with wisdom and knowledge
and understanding. That's how you do it, not saying go
(18:23):
out there and be foolish about it, but have some
wisdom with it.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I saw in an interview where you said, a good
cop is somebody with empathy who cares.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yes, So what is a bad cop somebody who just doesn't.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Just don't care. Yeah, I'm just here. I'm here to
get I'm just here, got my uniform on and got
my suit on, and I'm here. A lot of cops
they didn't have an even Let me tell you something.
I remember working with a partner of mine and we
were in the car and he said to me, he said,
(18:57):
you know, I never was around black people till I
came to this job, damn. And I was like, what
I said, So, how you gonna police us if you
have never experienced? And he dropped his head, and I
took him to my aunt's house and I said, I'm
(19:20):
gonna show you what black family looked like, because I
was story, ain't your story? And I took him there
and I caught my aunt on the phone and I said,
I'm gonna bring this young man to the house, and
she cooked this fried chicken and made him some real soul.
Let me tell you something. This god caught me just
(19:41):
the other day and he said, thank you for the experience.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
So I wondered when you become an officer. Of course
there's people who just naturally don't have empathy. But I
wonder if you can go in with empathy but then lose.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It, oh one, because you can get right in the
mix with him. You can get right in it, and
it ain't hard for you to I'm telling you because
had I not had my experience, it's a great possibility
that that would have happened to me. Wow. Because you
really believe in you really believe in this, in this,
(20:17):
in this family. Because let me tell you something. Some
of them cops, that's all they got is that family.
And I'm telling you they live and die. I mean
I got police. They are going in my comments like
trying to attack me, and I'm like, y'all know I'm
(20:40):
telling the truth, but y'all rather protect that than to
protect this. And I don't want people to feel sorry
for me because I'm not no victim. I've been victimized,
but I'm not no victim. And I want to be
(21:00):
real clear. And one person said in the comments, oh,
what more do you want? You retired a first grade detective?
What do you mean? I worked hard to be a
first grade detective. Ain't nobody give that to me. Have
I got gotten help along the way? Absolutely? But I worked.
(21:23):
I worked in them streets, and I worked in the
streets that looked like you and I because I understood
that had I not been there, things would have been
different for a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Wow, you spoke about how you know you forgave your
ex fiance because you didn't want to have that bitterness
in you? Did you also have some maybe some empathy
for him because you know how he became that way?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Maybe I have empathy for him, because he a broken
man in pieces he made, he was never made up
of anything, no substance to him as a man. Any
man that can put his hands on a woman and
you shoot her and you beat her and you murder
(22:13):
your child, what what is he made of? Absolutely nothing?
You have to have empathy for him.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
What about for your grandmother? Like did you ever get
to a place where you forgave her? Or like I
know there was something about like her when y'all first,
I guess I broke up. She knew what was going on.
She was like, you know, work it out, figure it
out with him.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I never was mad at my grandmother because my grandmother
was a product of brokenness. Speak about that in the book.
My grandfather left my grandmother for a white woman, and
that was the miise of my family. My grandmother never recovered.
She died from a broken heart.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
M You think abuses need rehabilitation of jail.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Time, I think both. I think both. While you in there,
you shouldn't be able to get your help, your healing,
whatever it is that you need, because if you put
them in prison and you don't do nothing with them,
or they come out and be a worse savage than
(23:27):
they already was.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I was like, ask, how do you deal with your
day to day now? Because like, where is he?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Like?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
What is he? I have no idea, I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Do you still live in fear of him?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Absolutely not, absolutely not. I fear no one but God. M.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
You know the title of your book alludes to the
to the blues, right, and you think of blues, you
think of like the music, the music. What does blues
mean to you and how does it reflect you know,
your journey from trauma to hill.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And then came the blues is my life and then
the NYPD life. Those are the blues, and then the
blues of my life. My life was blues on top
of blues.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
M what color is it now?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Hah? White? That's right.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
You feel like you definitely came out on the other side.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Let me tell you something, I've never been in a
better place. I have finally found peace. And when you
get peace, you will never allow anybody else to disrupt
that piece. I'm walking peace. I live for peace.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Do you remember the exact moment like you felt it? Like,
oh man, I feel free, I feel peace.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
When I left City Hall that day and I retired. Wow,
I'm telling you, it was like a light just came
over on me.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
And my the ada that was on my case at
the time. She was there at my walkout and we
were leaving, and she said, I've been waiting to send
this post. Do I have your approval to now tell
the world what happened to you? And I said absolutely.
(25:28):
And when she'd pressed in it was it.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Was there ever a moment of like when you had
to testify in court right or decided to? Was there
ever a moment for you where you thought you felt
that piece that you're talking about? But then later on,
I guess you realize that you're finally here, like because
I would think maybe that would bring you some sort
of closure or piece as well too, Or.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
No, you mean testify with my I never got a
chance to testify.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
Oh so when you showed up the court, they didn't
put you on the sand.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
When I showed up in the court. And when I
showed up in the courtroom, he turned around and saw
me because he thought that he had that intimidated me
enough that I would not come.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
From jail right to come to court.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
And when I walked in and he saw me, he
whispered to his attorney, and the next thing I know,
they took me back out of the court room. And
the next thing I knew, like guilty.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Because you came to the first you told the DA
he was going to disappear, right, Yeah, I told her
I was disappeared.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And then the trial, Yeah, because she told me that
she was gonna hunt me down or something like a dog.
I can't remember what she told me. She empty. She
had told me. She was like, that is you're going
to show And I'm like, for what, nothing's going to
happen to him? And everything that I said was going
to happen, it happened. Wow. And that's when people read
(26:58):
the book. You will see every single thing. How does
a man shoot someone ten times kill their child and
all you give them is five to fifteen? Tell me
how that works?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Oh, because you're a black woman?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
R number one?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Number two because he was part of the law enforcement. Yeah,
so he was protecting the on that's right, man.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
That part.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
So your decision not to want to show up until
day four, it was it was that was a decision,
not a fear.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Basically, it was it was fair. And then I was
just like, it's nothing gonna happen. Like listen, it is
what it is like, We're not gonna play no more games.
I'm tired of showing up and y'are not showing out.
So am I gonna show up today? What's gonna happen?
If I show up today? When y'all show up, what's
(27:52):
gonna happen? It's something gonna change today.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Damn.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I'm wondering being that you never told anybody your story,
and you know, when you would get calls for those
domestic violence cases, why did you tell people you weren't
you didn't want to be involved in them when you're
an auso?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Because I can't what was There's nothing good in the
deplotment that really helped domestic balance victim? What? What? What? What? What?
Am I?
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Why would I do that to somebody else?
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Were you were kind of thinking to yourself, I might
go out here and be a vigilante and.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Up No, I was.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
No. I like freedom I went to early on in
my career, I went to the JAIZ and did the
Scared program and I said, oh, no, no way now.
And that was one of the things that I wanted
to that I felt good about because y'all would have
fired me if I would have told you. But look
(28:51):
how I went and didn't have no scandals. We did
my job, I had integrity, I was respected and then
I and I left in a clean slate. I did that,
and y'all would have said that I couldn't have done that.
(29:11):
And I've had people put in my comments that they
was being honest on their interview trying to get onto
the police department and told them that they would have
a victim and they never heard from the police department.
And I got it in my DMS, and I made
sure that I screenshot them. Wow, and my publicists, she
can tell you, I have she know that that that
(29:36):
I'm not lying, and they say, oh, she's lying. We
wouldn't a fighter.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Have any of the officers that showed up those times
when you did reach out to police come back and
been like, we should have done more, say that sorry anything?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Let me tell you when when when the story first dropped,
anonymous caller called me. A lot of anonymous police officers
were calling me and saying, you're a hero. I wish
that I had to strength to do what you're doing.
Thank you for being a voice. But I had one
called me and he said, I'm not sure if I'm
(30:13):
the officer that responded to you, because I worked at
the eight one at that time. He said, but I
want to say to you that I apologize if I am.
He said, I'm not going to tell you my name.
I believe he told me he was either a captain
or an inspector at the time that he retired. And
he retired and he had moved to Florida, and he said,
I just want to tell you that I apologize to
(30:36):
you and hung up the phone.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Did that do anything for you?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
I just broke down and tears because I said, maybe
had you did something, maybe this wouldn't have happened to
my life. But he never gave me a chance to
say anything.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
You know, just say everybody got to have a testimony,
right because then if you didn't have that testimony, you
wouldn't be where you are now.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
But damn.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
You have to go through all of that.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
You have the organization Our Young Ladies of Our Future,
which is a nonprofit organization that serves at risk young women,
and you have Can't Be Silenced and organization working on
solutions to the urgent domestic violence crisis. What made you
want to start both of those organizations, well.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Young Ladies of our Future. I wanted to start that
because I never wanted any young girl, young lady to
ever have to endure what I haven't done. So if
I could just be able to pour into them and
be able to change their lives and make a difference
in their life, I just wanted to be able to
(31:46):
do that. So that was the purpose of that. And
I teach workshops just about self esteem, self awareness, a
whole leap of things, and there can't be silenced. Peace
was because I had to be silenced for so long
and now I have a voice, and I am the
voice for the voiceless and the hope for the hopeless.
(32:09):
So that is why.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
So do you feel like everything happens for a reason?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, I do believe that, you know, Charlemagne, When I
was a little girl, I was in so much pain
from what's going on in my life and I used
to now people call it a journal I had written.
I used to write my diary and I had lost
it when I had gotten older, and I found it
(32:37):
through moving and that was how I was able to
just write down so much detail because it was so
much pain and I was able to put it all together.
And I said to I said, as a little girl,
(32:59):
I said, I want to be I want to be
an author. I want to be a write. My grandmother
was a Liburian. God had to give me a story
to be an author.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Wow, ending your story and in the book. I turned
to the last page in your book.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Oh, yeah, I want that to be a surprise.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
Okay, because I thought just leave it.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, I wanted to be a surprise.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
I guess I rephrase the question. Then at the end
of your book, you choose to end it in a
very uplifting, like silver lining way of all of this.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I want to say only Lauren would give away the
ending of the book.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Because because it's so sweet. Well okay, right, but I
think for most people, because they hear all of this
and then they're wondering, like, well, what is your personal
life like, like how do you?
Speaker 2 (33:45):
And I want people to.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
From that and you go ahead, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I just I want people to know that dreams do
come true and that don't ever give up on your dream,
don't ever give up on yourself, because look what happened
for me, and if God can do it for me,
he can do it for you.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
When did you first start truly loving yourself?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Oh gosh, oh god, it took so many years. When
I met the Minister Lors Fabcon, all.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Praise to do to the minister. Absolutely for the minister.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Oh god, what twenty ten, that's when I started. Then
he's beginning to pour into me and it changed my life?
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Was that when you were able to find I guess
you know, because they say you can't love anybody else
until you love yourself, so you able to find healthy
love in your life.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
After that, I was able to find start to be
able to find healthy love and friendships and relationships right
because we attract what we are. Right. If you've broken,
you got broken homegirls, so let's keep it away, right,
broken broken relationships, It's only until you get healed and
made whole. And what is made whole, nothing missing, nothing,
(35:00):
damage is what's being made whole. Right, That's what that
looks like.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I just got a few more questions. What have you
learned about?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
What would have been some of your biggest lessons in
regards to resilience.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
The biggest lessons probably is like you gotta fight. I
don't care what I'm telling you, gotta fight. You have
to really really, like you gotta put on your box
and gloves, and like you gotta go in there like
you the heavy world, the world, the heavyweight world champion,
(35:37):
and if I'm saying it correctly, champion, heavyweight champion the world.
Like you gotta go into the ring with that mindset
that I'm gonna come out the winner. You cannot go
in there if you go in already saying that you're defeated,
You're gonna be defeated. And I was just determined, like
I got to win. I have to win. So every obstacle,
(36:04):
I said, I'm gonna get to the finish line. And
I got to the finish line.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
You said that. I was just going to ask too,
about the photos in the art on the book, just choosing,
like how you chose the photos in the art, like
the back photo, the opening photos showing both sides of you,
Like how did you know what you wanted to pick
image wise to match what the book would be telling.
Because so on point oh.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
That, let me tell you that was that had taken
a lot of meditation because I didn't, you know, because
of what's going on with the police. I was like, oh,
I don't know if I want to put that on
the you know, and I'm just like, it's just not
a police story. This is just not about a police story, right,
this is so much in it. So I'm just like,
let me put me and let me put the cop
(36:55):
and let's work it out like that. And then I
just sent it to my literary agent and she sent
me back some pictures and except what do you think?
And I said, let's do this, and that's how we
that's how we got there. And that picture there is
probably one of my favorite pictures before on the back
(37:17):
of the book.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
He was so innocent because I don't see nothing.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
I'm like, I'm looking and I'm like, I don't even
see the pain in your eyes, like you.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Just And I was in a lot of pain when
I'm I'm talking, and I was at the core pain
putting that shoe on, and I had I don't want
to give too much away, but I was in a
lot of pain, a lot of pain physically and mentally
that day. And I remember the photographer saying saying something
(37:45):
to me, and I just looked up at him.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
If you could speak to your younger self, you know,
the twenty two year old you who survived that unimaginable trauma.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
What do you wish she knew in that moment?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Oh gosh, mmm, I wish I knew God. I wish
I knew what love felt like. I wish that I
had gave myself some grace and had a little bit
(38:22):
more patience with myself, and wish I could have believed
in myself. I mean, I can go on like it's
a lot. It's a lot.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
What do you hope readers take away from your memoir,
especially those who might be navigating their own survival stories
right now.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
I really hope and pray that people really, truly will
be inspired. I want people to also be empowered. I
want people to be educated. I want people to understand
the importance of loving yourself, importance of getting healed, the
(39:02):
importance of your mental health. And I also want people
to even have a little a different outlook on the
police department, because all cops are not bad. They're not.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I just want, yeah, I just want officers to stop
ignoring domestic violence cases because you survived, like literally, like
you got shot ten times, survived and I'm just I'm
thinking about it so much because I just came home
from you know, South Carolina, you know, like yesterday and
I was told a story about a young woman named
Angel Caples, and she was thirty eight years old, and
(39:41):
she had been calling the police and telling the police.
I think it was her exo, somebody was going to
kill me. He's going to kill me because he used
to beat on her, beat on her, and for whatever reason,
they weren't taking her serious. And this dude came in
the house, shot and killed like six days ago.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
You know, she's no longer here.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
So it's just like, just like, I don't understand why
officers don't take that serious. If somebody says to you, heye,
this person is going to kill me, why isn't something
done immediately?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
And the thing about it is that, look, this is
in a whole nother state. This is happening everywhere. It's
people from all over the world reaching out to me
for help, and I can't help them because there's nothing
in place for people that's in these situations. And I
really wish that the government would step up and do more.
(40:28):
We need policy, we need change because people are literally
dying out here, and a lot of people don't even
call because they know they're not gonna get help. And
a lot of people stay because where are they gonna.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Go homegirls in no situations?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yes, So I'm just asking whomever Congress, somebody help please.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Why is it so hard for that to change though?
Because people you have, like you see people dying and
not making it. Oh, why is it so hard to
make it? Where if you call the police, they can
actually do something and that person kid just walk back
into your house.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Because it's not it's the system is just not set
up to protect it's not And we need change, right,
we need change. We go out and we vote for
people that tell us lies. Stop voting for people that's
(41:30):
not helping. If they are not doing the work before
they get in, why are you voting for them? Right,
we kind of stop just being a part of something
that's not real. They lying and saying, oh I could
(41:52):
do this, I can get this done, and nothing don't
get done. And then when they and then when they
get into office, they act like they know even had
those conversations.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Wow, if people want to sign up for your seminars
or you know, be a part of the young ladies
of our future, it can't be silenced.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Where they reach you Miss Dot Katrina four five six
and Katrina Brownlee on on Facebook. All my social media.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Proforms, well, I'm glad that you survived, and I'm glad
that you're here to tell your story because this is
going to help somebody. So and then came the Blues,
My story of survival on both sides of the Badge,
a memoir from Katrina Brownlee, is available everywhere. Now, my
last question one word that describes your journey hmm.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
One of the last word to describe my journey. Ah, God,
I made it. I made it.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
It's Katrina Brownlee. It's the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Thank you for coming, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Every day I wake last up the Breakfast Club. You'll
finish and y'all dump
Speaker 2 (43:04):
H
Every day. Click up the Breakfast Club, finish for y'all.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Done.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Yes, it's the world's most dangerous morning to show the
Breakfast Club, Charlamagne, the God DJ Envy just hilarious.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
They're not here today, but Lauren.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Lero says in and we have a special guest, the
author of the new book. And then came the Blues,
My story of survival on both sides of the Badge,
A memoir Katrina brown Lee is here.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I am blessed Black and Holly favors. You have a
hell of a story. Where do you want to begin?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Wherever you want to do well?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
The memoir tells the story of you being shot ten
times and overcoming the domestic violence. What helped you find
the courage to not only write this book, but just
to keep fighting for your life and I guess for
your future as well.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Oh gosh, the first thing I say it was God, faith, God, therapy,
and my children. That's what kept me fighting. That's all
I had was nothing else to even look at to say,
you know what I want to fight? Like when you
in survival mode, it's survival. You out there in the
(01:13):
wilderness all by yourself, and you just trying to figure
it out as you go along.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
The tagline of the book is my story of survival
on both sides of the badge talk about, you know,
just the choice to make that the tagline, because there
was one point where you were keeping what you were
going through personally, the violenceeer were experiencing in your work
as a police officer separate.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
So in terms you're speaking in terms of what does
the badge on both sides? I mean, yes, oh, badge
on both sides mean my life of me being abused.
I wasn't just abused in terms of a domestic violence relationship.
And the book it also speaks about how I was
a child abused, child abuse, sexual abused, So I speak
(01:59):
about that, and then I speak about the fact of
me being a detective, being a police officer. So it's
badges on both sides.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
And your ex fiance was a seal, correct, and so
he basically used to abuse his power, correct, put his
hands on your flash his badge and threaten you, you know,
on speaking up right.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I was the inmate and he was the correction officer
at home. That's how it was.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Damn.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Yeah, that's pretty tough. What was it like for you?
Day to day at work, you know, just with everything
that you were experiencing being able to then deal with
other people's issues and showing up for other people, Like,
what was that like mentally for you?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
It was so heavy for so many years because every
day that you go to work, you never know that
if somebody is going to recognize you or remember your story.
Because a few people did, you know, know my story.
It did make the news because at the time he
was a correction officer, So my name was Katrina Cook
(03:04):
at that time, and so it's Brown Lee. So a
lot of people didn't put two and two together. And
then when my story came out, a lot of people
began to reach out to me. So it was just
like a real difficult time just to work, and especially
(03:25):
work in the police department and with how can I
say it, not for but you know, work for an
organization that had failed me. So I went in with
the mindset of that I was going to change this
department and I was going to be this good cop.
But then when you go in you realize that this
(03:47):
is bigger than you. You ain't changing this. You're gonna
follow the rules or deal with the consequence.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
I guess that was my question, Like just in everything
that you were dealt with then deciding to go and
be a part of force, It's like it's so much
that you can't change, but you get there to change it, Like,
but you're also still dealing with your own stuff mentally.
I just maybe my question is why, Like why did
you think that you could break that system down.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Because of all the pain that I had went through,
everything that I had endured, Like, who was gonna save me?
They couldn't. They couldn't save me, So I just try
to save myself. Got you.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
When you when you would call the police and you know,
he would flash his badge and then the officers would
would would leave. Did that just make you feel hopeless?
Like how did you think he was gonna get out
that situation?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I'm to be honest with you. It was gonna either
be me or him, That's how bad it was getting.
And the only reason what kept me from either killing
myself killing him was my children because I was like,
my kids gonna be motherless.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And I guess you know, Lauren was was was getting
at this. But I guess what I want to ask,
how did that betrayal from the police shape your decision
to enter law enforcement yourself, mad.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, I wouldn't want to, but I wouldn't want to
be no cop.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Like because you you call it a blue wall of signs,
we all call it the blue wall, but now you
another brick on that wall.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
To try to answer your question, like I said, like
for me, I needed to be able to be protected.
So in order for me to be protected, I had
to that was one of the ways to be protected.
Like I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna because if
I'm a cop, he they didn't give them a long sentence,
so he's coming out, So is he gonna come out
(05:45):
and finish the job. But if I'm a cop, well
is he not going to do that? He's not going
to behave that way right? And then my thing was,
I want to go in and I want to be
able to shape. I want to clean this place up.
Like I had this mindset because I just believe that
I can go in there, I can change, because I
wanted change because I could not believe that you would
(06:08):
see me with a black eye, you would see me
with a busted lit and you would just say work
it out or you wouldn't even you wouldn't even address me,
and I'm standing there, you don't say anything to me.
But because he showed his shield, he had the right
to what he did.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
What's it like, because we hear a lot about like
when women are in these situations, there's this pattern of
almost feeling like sorry for the person that is abusing
you were like just some sort of like savior, like
you want to save them from like whatever the consequence
may be, because you're trying to figure out like why
it's happening or whatever the case may be. I know
he had tried to call and reach out to you
to have you say he didn't do certain things. Was
(06:48):
there ever a moment where you thought like it would
be best for me to just be quiet about this.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Oh? Absolutely, because I because he was a soul Pavida
fire household. So I thought about it. I was like,
now he in jail, Like I'm gonna take care of myself.
So I became homeless. So I thought about it. But
then I just said to myself, now I'm not doing that,
Like I'm not gonna do that, like it's gonna be
(07:13):
it's whatever at this point. And so you know, and
I speak about it in the book. You know how
his mom had written a letter and shot my name
and said that I had shot myself ten times.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
What How difficult is it to have these conversations?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I mean, because you know when I when I see
your story, and you know, there's certain things I want
to ask, I don't want to trigger you. So how
difficult is it to have these conversations?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
You can ask me whatever?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, if this is if this is a safe space,
you can yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
I mean just talking about it.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And you know you got to relive it because you
had to rewrite, you know, you had to write the book.
And then you know, now you ask me being asked questions.
But you know you were shot ten times and you
were left for dead while you were five months pregnant,
and they said they went it went on for an
hour and a half.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I don't I don't know how long it went on,
honestly because I was in and out of consciousns. I
don't know. I just you know that part was told
to me by the day by the Ada, who now
is one of my good friends.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
How did you rebuild your identity after all of this happened,
after being homeless, after you know, having to break down
after being shot and left for dead, Like, how did
you just rebuild your identity even become the detective that
you became and you were part of the mayor of
security detailers.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, a lot, a lot, a lot of therapy, a
lot of therapy and a lot of God that that
that is what helped me and just the will that
God had given me to just want to live. And
when you get the will to live, then it's that
light on the wall right there up in the ceiling,
(08:56):
and you follow that light and you low that light
to continue to go and that's your strength and that's
your power and then you get your power back. And
so that's what it was for me, because that's all
I had.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Do you truly forgive somebody when they do something that
hangs to you.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I had to because I was angry. I was so bitter.
I was bitter. And when you better at that.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Level, who is some tissue brand.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
When you better at that level, thank you. If you
do not forgive, you become a product of that. And
I just did not want to be that. I was
broken long enough. And in order for you to get
(09:53):
into a situation like that, it had to be a
story that happened. We don't. We don't wake up and
get into these relationships. So I came from transgenerational trauma,
and that's how I wind up in a situation where
a man shoots me ten times and abuse me.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Talk a bit about the chapter Until we Meet Again.
We talk about your mom, and you talk about just
you know, how everything that you went through made you
treat just being able to wake up and live every
single day. Why was it important for you to include
that chapter in the book.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I did not have a relationship with my mother, so
when she died, it was like I got robbed, like
totally robbed, and I will never know what it feels
like to have a mother. So I just felt that
it was important to just speak about that because I
(11:00):
know that I'm not the only one that's out there,
and this book is not just for me. It's for
all people that can be able to relate to my story.
And I just hope that it inspired people. I hope
it can change people life, and I just hope that
even for people that are abuses, that they can go
(11:24):
get help because abuses, they're broken and mental health is real.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
What was the emotional turning point in the writing process
of this book that that just made you feel like
a little lighter.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Because I wasn't able to really tell the story. I
wasn't it. So it was like this was so it
was like I'm finally getting everything out now, Like it
was like I'm being honest, like being constipated, like for
for so many years, I get that up there, you
got right there. Then you go right there that part,
(12:04):
and so that's what I'm telling you. That's exactly how
I felt, and it felt so good, and it feels
good to be able to now be able to speak
my truth and be able to tell the story. Even
I had friends that I had been friends with for
so many years that didn't even know my story. So
you sit out with your girlfriends, you hang out with them,
(12:26):
you travel with them, and they don't even know who
you really are, and you live in this bubble this
world because you you can't really tell because if I
would have told and somebody told the police department, they
were to find me because they wouldn't have want that stigma.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
When you became an officer that you have more empathy
for law enforcement, Like did you realize why they were
the way they were?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Oh? Absolutely, Okay, let me tell you something that people
don't know. The cops, they get abused by the higher
upstare they get I'm telling you, they get abused. So
if you that's just like if you abuse your child, right,
(13:17):
a lot of times your child becomes an abuser. So
that's all it is. They don't get treated well there.
So now if I'm not getting treated well, I'm gonna
go out here and protecting serf. I'm gonna go out
there and protect and be kind to people when I'm
not even being kind at home. The police, that's your home, right,
You there to protecting serf. You there and to go
(13:40):
out there and do your job. But if you if
you're being beat down and you're being told you're a loser,
and you're being told that you ain't right enough summonsens
or you ain't lock enough people up, and then you
get in trouble and if you tell and if you snitch,
the consequences. So how can you go out there and
(14:01):
really be effective?
Speaker 4 (14:04):
What about the stuff that you were seeing aside, like
you talked about like the Chocolate team and the Vanilla team. Yeah,
and the different neighborhoods they would go to. That's right,
And it's well, I guess you should explain it for people,
the difference between the teams. And then I wanted to
ask you about you going to your boss and saying, hey,
they're doing the legal searches. You need to figure that out.
And the boss was like, I'm cool.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, the chocolate team for the black team, and the
vanilla team was the Caucasian team.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
And they went to So like, y'all are in different
neighborhoods or whatever. You decide to you see something that
you know is not right, you decide to go to
your higher up, your higher upsets. I'm not disturbing my
pension to correct a bad cop.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Right because a lot of times if you would tell
its consequences, it's real. It is really real, and this
is your life. You're talking about cops kill theyself all
the time, where you think they killing they self for
a killing they self because because they ain't getting enough
(15:01):
money or enough love. They're killing theirself because it's rail
in there, a lot of guilt and they can't be
who they want to be. They can't be their authentic
self there, so they got to be somebody else and
sometimes people can't handle that. Everybody mental health level is different.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah, I've been having that conversation a lot lately. Like,
you know, I feel like police officers should have, uh
should have to deal with mental health professionals, like literally
every year, every week, Like they should be sitting down
with mental health professionals.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, they have some hotline called Popper, But
I don't even think that those are those are people
that are actually equipped to be able to deal with
the trauma that police officers face every day. That should
be you. You make sure that it's mandatory training for
all these other different things that don't really matter, But
(15:55):
why you don't have mandatory mental health training for your
police officers so they can be suited and booted and
in a good mental state to be out there to
go out there to fight and be able to really
protect and serve. Right. So, if you want to have
a great police department, you gotta have a great police apartment,
and they got to be able to have integrity. You
(16:16):
got to be able to have police said, police officers
be able to just really show up for someone. That's
why I didn't want to be a domestic violence officer.
I was like, I'm not going there and go to
a call and it's a domestic violence officer, and what
I'm going to really do for her or what I'm
gonna really do for him? Come on, it ain't it
(16:38):
ain't it ain't. The system ain't get to help us
like that, especially people that look like us.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Do you even now and share your story in the book,
you talked about switching units because of like just fear
of the things that were happening or whatever.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
And what part are you talking through?
Speaker 4 (16:53):
You talked about You said your arrested I think it
was one hundred and forty five hundred forty seven people.
It was like buses of people, and you were saying
that like being in arcotics was getting a little like
you were fearing for your safety. Oh yeah, Do you
feel for your safety now because you're talking about all
this stuff?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
No, absolutely not. I trust God, you know, I believe
that he has me on an assignment and whatever is
gonna be, it's gonna be. I'm telling the truth. I'm
telling the truth, and I am here on whatever platform
(17:28):
to be able to speak the truth. And so we
got to stop lying to people, you know, we gotta
stop lying like we're not we're not being real with people.
Let's stop lying. Let's start telling the truth, and let's
start really showing up. And if we're not showing up,
(17:52):
then shut up.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
But as you said, though, people are afraid to tell
the truth, especially in that system, because of fear of retaliation.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, well, you know what, Sometimes you gotta do what
you gotta do, right, Sometimes you gotta do what you
gotta do. And I still quiet. And so now now
I get to I get to be able to tell
the truth. So you got to do what you have
to do and be do it with wisdom and knowledge
and understanding. That's how you do it, not saying go
(18:23):
out there and be foolish about it, but have some
wisdom with it.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I saw in an interview where you said, a good
cop is somebody with empathy who cares.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yes, So what is a bad cop somebody who just doesn't.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Just don't care. Yeah, I'm just here. I'm here to
get I'm just here, got my uniform on and got
my suit on, and I'm here. A lot of cops
they didn't have an even Let me tell you something.
I remember working with a partner of mine and we
were in the car and he said to me, he said,
(18:57):
you know, I never was around black people till I
came to this job, damn. And I was like, what
I said, So, how you gonna police us if you
have never experienced? And he dropped his head, and I
took him to my aunt's house and I said, I'm
(19:20):
gonna show you what black family looked like, because I
was story, ain't your story? And I took him there
and I caught my aunt on the phone and I said,
I'm gonna bring this young man to the house, and
she cooked this fried chicken and made him some real soul.
Let me tell you something. This god caught me just
(19:41):
the other day and he said, thank you for the experience.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
So I wondered when you become an officer. Of course
there's people who just naturally don't have empathy. But I
wonder if you can go in with empathy but then lose.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It, oh one, because you can get right in the
mix with him. You can get right in it, and
it ain't hard for you to I'm telling you because
had I not had my experience, it's a great possibility
that that would have happened to me. Wow. Because you
really believe in you really believe in this, in this,
(20:17):
in this family. Because let me tell you something. Some
of them cops, that's all they got is that family.
And I'm telling you they live and die. I mean
I got police. They are going in my comments like
trying to attack me, and I'm like, y'all know I'm
(20:40):
telling the truth, but y'all rather protect that than to
protect this. And I don't want people to feel sorry
for me because I'm not no victim. I've been victimized,
but I'm not no victim. And I want to be
(21:00):
real clear. And one person said in the comments, oh,
what more do you want? You retired a first grade detective?
What do you mean? I worked hard to be a
first grade detective. Ain't nobody give that to me. Have
I got gotten help along the way? Absolutely? But I worked.
(21:23):
I worked in them streets, and I worked in the
streets that looked like you and I because I understood
that had I not been there, things would have been
different for a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Wow, you spoke about how you know you forgave your
ex fiance because you didn't want to have that bitterness
in you? Did you also have some maybe some empathy
for him because you know how he became that way?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Maybe I have empathy for him, because he a broken
man in pieces he made, he was never made up
of anything, no substance to him as a man. Any
man that can put his hands on a woman and
you shoot her and you beat her and you murder
(22:13):
your child, what what is he made of? Absolutely nothing?
You have to have empathy for him.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
What about for your grandmother? Like did you ever get
to a place where you forgave her? Or like I
know there was something about like her when y'all first,
I guess I broke up. She knew what was going on.
She was like, you know, work it out, figure it
out with him.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I never was mad at my grandmother because my grandmother
was a product of brokenness. Speak about that in the book.
My grandfather left my grandmother for a white woman, and
that was the miise of my family. My grandmother never recovered.
She died from a broken heart.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
M You think abuses need rehabilitation of jail.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Time, I think both. I think both. While you in there,
you shouldn't be able to get your help, your healing,
whatever it is that you need, because if you put
them in prison and you don't do nothing with them,
or they come out and be a worse savage than
(23:27):
they already was.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I was like, ask, how do you deal with your
day to day now? Because like, where is he?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Like?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
What is he? I have no idea, I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Do you still live in fear of him?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Absolutely not, absolutely not. I fear no one but God. M.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
You know the title of your book alludes to the
to the blues, right, and you think of blues, you
think of like the music, the music. What does blues
mean to you and how does it reflect you know,
your journey from trauma to hill.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And then came the blues is my life and then
the NYPD life. Those are the blues, and then the
blues of my life. My life was blues on top
of blues.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
M what color is it now?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Hah? White? That's right.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
You feel like you definitely came out on the other side.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Let me tell you something, I've never been in a
better place. I have finally found peace. And when you
get peace, you will never allow anybody else to disrupt
that piece. I'm walking peace. I live for peace.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Do you remember the exact moment like you felt it? Like,
oh man, I feel free, I feel peace.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
When I left City Hall that day and I retired. Wow,
I'm telling you, it was like a light just came
over on me.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
And my the ada that was on my case at
the time. She was there at my walkout and we
were leaving, and she said, I've been waiting to send
this post. Do I have your approval to now tell
the world what happened to you? And I said absolutely.
(25:28):
And when she'd pressed in it was it.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Was there ever a moment of like when you had
to testify in court right or decided to? Was there
ever a moment for you where you thought you felt
that piece that you're talking about? But then later on,
I guess you realize that you're finally here, like because
I would think maybe that would bring you some sort
of closure or piece as well too, Or.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
No, you mean testify with my I never got a
chance to testify.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
Oh so when you showed up the court, they didn't
put you on the sand.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
When I showed up in the court. And when I
showed up in the courtroom, he turned around and saw
me because he thought that he had that intimidated me
enough that I would not come.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
From jail right to come to court.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
And when I walked in and he saw me, he
whispered to his attorney, and the next thing I know,
they took me back out of the court room. And
the next thing I knew, like guilty.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Because you came to the first you told the DA
he was going to disappear, right, Yeah, I told her
I was disappeared.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And then the trial, Yeah, because she told me that
she was gonna hunt me down or something like a dog.
I can't remember what she told me. She empty. She
had told me. She was like, that is you're going
to show And I'm like, for what, nothing's going to
happen to him? And everything that I said was going
to happen, it happened. Wow. And that's when people read
(26:58):
the book. You will see every single thing. How does
a man shoot someone ten times kill their child and
all you give them is five to fifteen? Tell me
how that works?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Oh, because you're a black woman?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
R number one?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Number two because he was part of the law enforcement. Yeah,
so he was protecting the on that's right, man.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
That part.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
So your decision not to want to show up until
day four, it was it was that was a decision,
not a fear.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Basically, it was it was fair. And then I was
just like, it's nothing gonna happen. Like listen, it is
what it is like, We're not gonna play no more games.
I'm tired of showing up and y'are not showing out.
So am I gonna show up today? What's gonna happen?
If I show up today? When y'all show up, what's
(27:52):
gonna happen? It's something gonna change today.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Damn.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I'm wondering being that you never told anybody your story,
and you know, when you would get calls for those
domestic violence cases, why did you tell people you weren't
you didn't want to be involved in them when you're
an auso?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Because I can't what was There's nothing good in the
deplotment that really helped domestic balance victim? What? What? What? What? What?
Am I?
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Why would I do that to somebody else?
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Were you were kind of thinking to yourself, I might
go out here and be a vigilante and.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Up No, I was.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
No. I like freedom I went to early on in
my career, I went to the JAIZ and did the
Scared program and I said, oh, no, no way now.
And that was one of the things that I wanted
to that I felt good about because y'all would have
fired me if I would have told you. But look
(28:51):
how I went and didn't have no scandals. We did
my job, I had integrity, I was respected and then
I and I left in a clean slate. I did that,
and y'all would have said that I couldn't have done that.
(29:11):
And I've had people put in my comments that they
was being honest on their interview trying to get onto
the police department and told them that they would have
a victim and they never heard from the police department.
And I got it in my DMS, and I made
sure that I screenshot them. Wow, and my publicists, she
can tell you, I have she know that that that
(29:36):
I'm not lying, and they say, oh, she's lying. We
wouldn't a fighter.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Have any of the officers that showed up those times
when you did reach out to police come back and
been like, we should have done more, say that sorry anything?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Let me tell you when when when the story first dropped,
anonymous caller called me. A lot of anonymous police officers
were calling me and saying, you're a hero. I wish
that I had to strength to do what you're doing.
Thank you for being a voice. But I had one
called me and he said, I'm not sure if I'm
(30:13):
the officer that responded to you, because I worked at
the eight one at that time. He said, but I
want to say to you that I apologize if I am.
He said, I'm not going to tell you my name.
I believe he told me he was either a captain
or an inspector at the time that he retired. And
he retired and he had moved to Florida, and he said,
I just want to tell you that I apologize to
(30:36):
you and hung up the phone.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Did that do anything for you?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
I just broke down and tears because I said, maybe
had you did something, maybe this wouldn't have happened to
my life. But he never gave me a chance to
say anything.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
You know, just say everybody got to have a testimony,
right because then if you didn't have that testimony, you
wouldn't be where you are now.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
But damn.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
You have to go through all of that.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
You have the organization Our Young Ladies of Our Future,
which is a nonprofit organization that serves at risk young women,
and you have Can't Be Silenced and organization working on
solutions to the urgent domestic violence crisis. What made you
want to start both of those organizations, well.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Young Ladies of our Future. I wanted to start that
because I never wanted any young girl, young lady to
ever have to endure what I haven't done. So if
I could just be able to pour into them and
be able to change their lives and make a difference
in their life, I just wanted to be able to
(31:46):
do that. So that was the purpose of that. And
I teach workshops just about self esteem, self awareness, a
whole leap of things, and there can't be silenced. Peace
was because I had to be silenced for so long
and now I have a voice, and I am the
voice for the voiceless and the hope for the hopeless.
(32:09):
So that is why.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
So do you feel like everything happens for a reason?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, I do believe that, you know, Charlemagne, When I
was a little girl, I was in so much pain
from what's going on in my life and I used
to now people call it a journal I had written.
I used to write my diary and I had lost
it when I had gotten older, and I found it
(32:37):
through moving and that was how I was able to
just write down so much detail because it was so
much pain and I was able to put it all together.
And I said to I said, as a little girl,
(32:59):
I said, I want to be I want to be
an author. I want to be a write. My grandmother
was a Liburian. God had to give me a story
to be an author.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Wow, ending your story and in the book. I turned
to the last page in your book.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Oh, yeah, I want that to be a surprise.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
Okay, because I thought just leave it.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, I wanted to be a surprise.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
I guess I rephrase the question. Then at the end
of your book, you choose to end it in a
very uplifting, like silver lining way of all of this.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I want to say only Lauren would give away the
ending of the book.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Because because it's so sweet. Well okay, right, but I
think for most people, because they hear all of this
and then they're wondering, like, well, what is your personal
life like, like how do you?
Speaker 2 (33:45):
And I want people to.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
From that and you go ahead, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I just I want people to know that dreams do
come true and that don't ever give up on your dream,
don't ever give up on yourself, because look what happened
for me, and if God can do it for me,
he can do it for you.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
When did you first start truly loving yourself?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Oh gosh, oh god, it took so many years. When
I met the Minister Lors Fabcon, all.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Praise to do to the minister. Absolutely for the minister.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Oh god, what twenty ten, that's when I started. Then
he's beginning to pour into me and it changed my life?
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Was that when you were able to find I guess
you know, because they say you can't love anybody else
until you love yourself, so you able to find healthy
love in your life.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
After that, I was able to find start to be
able to find healthy love and friendships and relationships right
because we attract what we are. Right. If you've broken,
you got broken homegirls, so let's keep it away, right,
broken broken relationships, It's only until you get healed and
made whole. And what is made whole, nothing missing, nothing,
(35:00):
damage is what's being made whole. Right, That's what that
looks like.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I just got a few more questions. What have you
learned about?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
What would have been some of your biggest lessons in
regards to resilience.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
The biggest lessons probably is like you gotta fight. I
don't care what I'm telling you, gotta fight. You have
to really really, like you gotta put on your box
and gloves, and like you gotta go in there like
you the heavy world, the world, the heavyweight world champion,
(35:37):
and if I'm saying it correctly, champion, heavyweight champion the world.
Like you gotta go into the ring with that mindset
that I'm gonna come out the winner. You cannot go
in there if you go in already saying that you're defeated,
You're gonna be defeated. And I was just determined, like
I got to win. I have to win. So every obstacle,
(36:04):
I said, I'm gonna get to the finish line. And
I got to the finish line.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
You said that. I was just going to ask too,
about the photos in the art on the book, just choosing,
like how you chose the photos in the art, like
the back photo, the opening photos showing both sides of you,
Like how did you know what you wanted to pick
image wise to match what the book would be telling.
Because so on point oh.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
That, let me tell you that was that had taken
a lot of meditation because I didn't, you know, because
of what's going on with the police. I was like, oh,
I don't know if I want to put that on
the you know, and I'm just like, it's just not
a police story. This is just not about a police story, right,
this is so much in it. So I'm just like,
let me put me and let me put the cop
(36:55):
and let's work it out like that. And then I
just sent it to my literary agent and she sent
me back some pictures and except what do you think?
And I said, let's do this, and that's how we
that's how we got there. And that picture there is
probably one of my favorite pictures before on the back
(37:17):
of the book.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
He was so innocent because I don't see nothing.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
I'm like, I'm looking and I'm like, I don't even
see the pain in your eyes, like you.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Just And I was in a lot of pain when
I'm I'm talking, and I was at the core pain
putting that shoe on, and I had I don't want
to give too much away, but I was in a
lot of pain, a lot of pain physically and mentally
that day. And I remember the photographer saying saying something
(37:45):
to me, and I just looked up at him.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
If you could speak to your younger self, you know,
the twenty two year old you who survived that unimaginable trauma.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
What do you wish she knew in that moment?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Oh gosh, mmm, I wish I knew God. I wish
I knew what love felt like. I wish that I
had gave myself some grace and had a little bit
(38:22):
more patience with myself, and wish I could have believed
in myself. I mean, I can go on like it's
a lot. It's a lot.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
What do you hope readers take away from your memoir,
especially those who might be navigating their own survival stories
right now.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
I really hope and pray that people really, truly will
be inspired. I want people to also be empowered. I
want people to be educated. I want people to understand
the importance of loving yourself, importance of getting healed, the
(39:02):
importance of your mental health. And I also want people
to even have a little a different outlook on the
police department, because all cops are not bad. They're not.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I just want, yeah, I just want officers to stop
ignoring domestic violence cases because you survived, like literally, like
you got shot ten times, survived and I'm just I'm
thinking about it so much because I just came home
from you know, South Carolina, you know, like yesterday and
I was told a story about a young woman named
Angel Caples, and she was thirty eight years old, and
(39:41):
she had been calling the police and telling the police.
I think it was her exo, somebody was going to
kill me. He's going to kill me because he used
to beat on her, beat on her, and for whatever reason,
they weren't taking her serious. And this dude came in
the house, shot and killed like six days ago.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
You know, she's no longer here.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
So it's just like, just like, I don't understand why
officers don't take that serious. If somebody says to you, heye,
this person is going to kill me, why isn't something
done immediately?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
And the thing about it is that, look, this is
in a whole nother state. This is happening everywhere. It's
people from all over the world reaching out to me
for help, and I can't help them because there's nothing
in place for people that's in these situations. And I
really wish that the government would step up and do more.
(40:28):
We need policy, we need change because people are literally
dying out here, and a lot of people don't even
call because they know they're not gonna get help. And
a lot of people stay because where are they gonna.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Go homegirls in no situations?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yes, So I'm just asking whomever Congress, somebody help please.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Why is it so hard for that to change though?
Because people you have, like you see people dying and
not making it. Oh, why is it so hard to
make it? Where if you call the police, they can
actually do something and that person kid just walk back
into your house.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Because it's not it's the system is just not set
up to protect it's not And we need change, right,
we need change. We go out and we vote for
people that tell us lies. Stop voting for people that's
(41:30):
not helping. If they are not doing the work before
they get in, why are you voting for them? Right,
we kind of stop just being a part of something
that's not real. They lying and saying, oh I could
(41:52):
do this, I can get this done, and nothing don't
get done. And then when they and then when they
get into office, they act like they know even had
those conversations.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Wow, if people want to sign up for your seminars
or you know, be a part of the young ladies
of our future, it can't be silenced.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Where they reach you Miss Dot Katrina four five six
and Katrina Brownlee on on Facebook. All my social media.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Proforms, well, I'm glad that you survived, and I'm glad
that you're here to tell your story because this is
going to help somebody. So and then came the Blues,
My story of survival on both sides of the Badge,
a memoir from Katrina Brownlee, is available everywhere. Now, my
last question one word that describes your journey hmm.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
One of the last word to describe my journey. Ah, God,
I made it. I made it.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
It's Katrina Brownlee. It's the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Thank you for coming, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Every day I wake last up the Breakfast Club. You'll
finish and y'all dump
Speaker 2 (43:04):
H
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Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!