INTERVIEW: Gucci Mane & Keyshia Ka'oir Open Up About Schizophrenia, Controlling Mental Health Episodes + More

Today on The Breakfast Club, Gucci Mane & Keyshia Ka'oir Open Up About Schizophrenia, Controlling Mental Health Episodes. Listen For More!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I don't know every day waiting click your ass up
the Breakfast Club.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
You know, I'm finished for y'all.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Dune Morning.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
Everybody is DJ n V, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the God.
We are the Breakfast Club. Nona Roses here as well.
We got a special guest in the building.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Yes, indeed, we got Gucci Mains.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome. How y'all feeling, y'all look amazing?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thank you?

Speaker 1 (00:24):
New book out episodes. Yes, man, I thoroughly enjoyed your book,
Gucci Man, because you know, we give people props when
we were younger for being real and with a lot
of things that we say is real. It's like when
somebody gangster with somebody, you know, we call them tough.
But to me, the most realist thing you can do
is you get older, just be vulnerable, you know what
I mean, and going to journey of healing and share

(00:44):
that journey with people. And you definitely did that in
this book.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Thank you. I appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
I always see you talking about mental health while be
listening to y'all.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
You always championing mentsal health, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (00:53):
So that's my I said, make sure y'all get that
book to Charlagne before I come up there.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Absolutely I knew he was gonna read it. Absolutely, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
So what got you to the point where he said,
this is the time to share the story because most
people will say, like, you know, I don't want to
share that story. It might be embarrassing, it might make
me look this way. But you were open and completely
open about it. What got you to that point was like,
this is the.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
Time I had when I had an episode in like
twenty nineteen or twenty twenty round COVID, and that was
just like like after that, I was like, man, I
gotta really just hold myself accountable and take care of
my health. I don't never want to have an episode again.
I'm like, I'm gonna se a therapist if I had
to take medicine. I just I kind of like through
the chidland, like you know what I need to do
to get better. I just did never want to have

(01:32):
that happen again. And then my wife was pregnant with
my little but I'm like, I don't never want to
I don't want to raise a family, and then my
mental health gone with.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
If I have an episode, I can't come back from you.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
Know what, I'm saying, so I just like starting to
do the work and like started seeking the help.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Keisha, I'm glad you here because we always have conversations
about the people who have to deal with the individuals
with the mental mental health issues. It feels like nobody
else speaks to y'all.

Speaker 5 (01:58):
It's tough.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
What what made you not run? Because you could have ran,
You could have been like, I'm not the same for me,
but you stood ten toes down and said I'm gone.

Speaker 5 (02:07):
I experienced him going through episodes before we were married,
and I was like, man, somebody gotta help this guy.
It was really, really bad. It's really sad because you're
seeing someone you don't know. They're saying things to you
that are disrespectful, so mean, and you have to just like,
but I'm not talking to Gucci, who is this person?

(02:27):
So I felt like if I left, he wouldn't have
been the same. He needed someone to help him. And
then when we were supposed to get married, someone said
to me, you know you're gonna have to deal with
this through your marriage, right, And I'm like, I'm cool
with it. I'm going to fix him.

Speaker 6 (02:41):
You know how heavy was that for you?

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Though?

Speaker 7 (02:44):
Because the fixing isn't like an overnight thing. I saw Gucci,
you did a big facts and you were talking about
how one time you said to him, I should record
this so that you can see, because he wouldn't even
remember some of the things he was doing, but it
would like you'd be like, oh my god, Like what's
happening right now?

Speaker 6 (02:58):
How heavy was it in the press? Just trying to
help him get back.

Speaker 5 (03:01):
It was one point I had to just go on
my knees and pray because it's like he's like, I
don't like you. I mean, the things he would say
are really really bad, and I just have to like
take a deep breath. Like I said, I'm not talking
to you right now. You want to sit here and
be crazy alone, I'm not going to allow you to
be crazy alone. So like I have to like set
a plan up. Like at one point I called his attorney,

(03:25):
I called some bodyguards, and I just planned a whole
kidnap and we kidnapped him and took him to the
hospital because we could not get him to the hospital.
But he was trying to fight them and everything, but
it was six of them. He couldn't handle it, and
we threw him in the car. He would try to
jump out the car, so we put him in the
center of the car, you know. And that was like
his last episode.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
When you go to the Yeah.

Speaker 5 (03:49):
But they they try to do things where he could
sign himself out, and I'm like, he's not signed. Like
I'm stern with them. He's not signing himself out. I'm
his wife and I'm his far of attorney. He ain't
going nowhere like I have to be strict. It's kind
of like you have to go in mother mode, you know,
and put your foot down.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Were you ever scared?

Speaker 5 (04:07):
I wasn't. Never scared he would hurt me. People were
scared for me. But it's a scary moment.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, Because I asked her that what she's scared. She
was like, I'm not scared of you.

Speaker 5 (04:17):
I tell him all the time doing it, I'm not
scared of you. So you we gonna figure this out,
Like I have to get gangster with him because he
and I'm like, all right, we gonna see. Let's do this,
you know.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
And the ice Cream Fever Dreams chapter Gus, you said
that the only you said when you need help, the
only person you can rely on is yourself. Yes, Why
did you feel that way in that moment.

Speaker 4 (04:39):
Because that's how I felt, especially with like you're really
the only person you can like, you gotta do the.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Work yourself, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
If you want to like really get better, people can
want it for you, but you still.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Gotta want it more than they do.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
You know what I'm saying. You gotta want You gotta
do the work. You gotta live with it, you know
what I'm saying. So that's probably why I said that.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
The reason I asked is because you start the book
off talking about Big and you know, you and Ke
should definitely help Big Scar in that moment when he
was having an episode. Yes, I mean you did help somebody.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
I was trying my best to save a scar. I
was trying my best to save a Scar, and like
even he was a big inspiration for the book as well.
But what was like when I reached out to my
writing the co writer Cat on writing a book. I
was telling her about you know, like how High helped
Scart and you know, my wife was talking to me,
but she was on like I wouldn't even let Scott
know that she was telling me the stuff to tell
him it Like while we writing a book, like discussing

(05:30):
the book and just going over how we're gonna make it.
Scott died, so I hear her like, you know, Scott
had passed away. It was all it went for him
being an inspiration before I can't finish the book.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
He passed away. So that was just super deep and
it made me like, I gotta do this.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
I gotta even be more vulnerable because I'm gonna help
people that I don't even know I was, because I
was trying to help somebody who was so close to me,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
And I didn't even and I didn't succeed.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
You know when you break down in the book that
September thirteenth episode, right, yeah, and you said you don't
even remember a lot of the things that you said.
Did you have to go back and say, you know what,
let me fix some of those situations? And who did
you called first to say let me fix that? Cause
we were on there that morning and we just remember
it's like damn Gucci just going crazy on everybody. And
the sad and the sad thing about it is for

(06:15):
media pressed. It's like that's goal at first, like oh, this,
that and the other, but then when you sit back
and look at it, like damn, Like maybe we shouldn't
have went that hard and promoted because we can see
now he was going through episode.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
So the first question in the book about the media
that yeah, But the answer envin.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
I was super embarrassed and hurt by the things I
said because like I wasn't well then, right, So then
I got locked up. So a lot of those people
who I was saying stuff too, they were like, I ain't.
They never gonna mess with me no more. So even
when I got out three years later, I still was like,
I apologize to Ross, Drake NICKI like all them people
accepting my apologies.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
They just don't know.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
It's like a weight off my shoulders because I had
been like cause I was wrong, Like Ross hadn't did
nothing but helped me, you know what I'm saying. And
I said something about him burg Man that all this
stuff me, why would I say something about him? So
I felt bad, you know what I'm saying. I felt
terribly bad and it was just e me. It was
like it was super heavy on me, you know what
I'm saying. So I apologize to everybody everybody that would
aceept my apology. That I apologize everybody who would accept

(07:14):
my call. I apologize to you. Just think anybody who
I was dissing, I apologize to.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
When you see artists doing that, now, do you know
exactly what they're going through?

Speaker 4 (07:24):
Yes, we were like since it's going through episode, I
can see it because because I'd have been through it,
and I'm like, I be feeling sorry for him, you
know what I'm saying. But because I see the media,
they just go with it like this person like mad
or they being you know, like mean or whatever. But
they be like going through something really mental. It'd be
some mental health stuff going on.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Do you reach out to any of those artists.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
I'm trying to think, did I reach out now? I
don't do a lot of reaching out because some of them,
like I feel like they wouldn't be accepting of it,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
But because you know, you wouldn't be accepted at the
point at that.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Time, Yeah, at that point you can't. You can't really
talk to them like that.

Speaker 4 (07:57):
But like my wife said, I wish I could talk
to the people that know them to tell them how
to help them.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (08:04):
I tried to reach out to Kim when Kanye was
going through an episode. It bothered me so much, but
I don't know her and I didn't want to feel
like a groupie. Yeah, so I tried to send messages
to people. I never succeeded, but this was during their marriage.
I'm like, damn, I want to talk to her so bad,
like I can help you, but I never was successful.

Speaker 7 (08:22):
We talked about that on air the other day because
she sat down with call Her Daddy and talked about
what it was like on the inside by also trying
to protect their public image and the way she thought
people would look at her if she decided to leave.

Speaker 6 (08:34):
For you, what was it like, I mean talking about Kim?

Speaker 7 (08:37):
What was it like just trying to protect the business
that you guys have built.

Speaker 5 (08:41):
Wow, I have a sisterly. I take his apps off
his phone. First thing I do. I delete Instagram, I
delete everything. Even if I got to change his password,
I'm changing it because I don't need the public to
know he's having an episode. You realize you'd never know
about any other episodes since September thirteen because I control
that Because you're not going on Instagram, You're not going

(09:01):
on Twitter. It's deleted, you know, and I just control
everything at home and now before the episodes come, I
catch it. So that's why he hasn't had another one.
And how you catch that is he doesn't speak to you,
he wants to be left alone.

Speaker 6 (09:16):
He don't eat, he.

Speaker 5 (09:17):
Does not sleep. Text messages, there's a period after each word,
and I'm like, you're going through an episode. You're sick. No,
I'm not, ain't not wrong with me? Why do you
think that you're not speaking to me? Well, there's nothing
to talk about. I said, well, that's not how you
speak to your wife. And I'm like, you're sick and
we snap out of it right then?

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Wow, you know we heard him this week say how
Kanye just used to give away they calls and stuff
and he would go through episodes and in the book
you talk about you just used to be giving away stuff.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
I gave away your money.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
You want to cost so much? How much cost for Jerr?
I ga't waste. I would give my friends jeried and
like like they know I went, well, they'll take it.
I felt like, damn the I know I was something's
going on with me, but they'll take it. So like
when I got out of jail, like I cut off
all my friends, my old friends. I'm like, damn never
taking advantage. You know what I'm saying, it was great

(10:09):
taking the fan I'm giving away money.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
I wonder what the psychology is behind that, Like why
when you going through an episode you.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Give away money and I don't know, you don't care
now in your mind.

Speaker 4 (10:18):
Because the money don't it's not You're kind of like
in a warp world. It's almost like it's a psychosis,
you know what I'm saying. It's not you're dealing with
stuff like hearing voices. Yeah, you know, and you're hearing
voices too, like it's telling you that you know. You
might think that Charlotte is trying to I might think
that you're trying to fight me. You ain't even did nothing.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
We'd be like, bro, I.

Speaker 4 (10:35):
Ain't doing nothing to tell you what's wrong, Like I'll
be trying to fight you, Lae man, like you did this.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
You know what you did? You stole something from me.
He'd be like.

Speaker 4 (10:44):
Nothing, But in my mind, I'm like, it's the truth.
So that's what I used.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
To deal with. How did therapy in the self work
change your relationship with anger? And like, do you still
wrestle with that same in a voice that you talk
about throughout the book.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
I don't. I don't. It's like I seen a therapist.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
I gotta got ah so taking medicine to prescribed for
me and what she thought, and it worked and I
happened had any other problems.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
You know, I always wondered when when people have episodes,
what sparks it?

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Right?

Speaker 3 (11:12):
Sometimes you know, you see homie from the hood and
they'll say it's some bad weed, or they'll say it's
some lean or what it was. So I always wondered,
do you know what sparked the episodes?

Speaker 4 (11:22):
I think drug use, stress and stress not sleeping combined.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
It wasn't just like, Okay, I drank the lane.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
It was also I'm drinking line and I had like
five or six charges open cases. So I was so
stretched out. So you know, I'm going to the studio
and work. I got all these artists' instead of working hard,
you know what I'm saying. So from the outside looking in,
you think that I'm not phased about it, But it's
almost like I pushed the cases out of my mind.
You see what I'm saying, But it's still a stress.
But I'm just not dealing with I'm not talking about it.

(11:52):
I'm just like acting like it's never gonna happen, like
court not gonna never happen. But that's a big stress.
And I'm stead of drinking line, smoking weed, taking pills
to kind of know them that and then one day
it's just like scroub to break the camera back boom.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
Now my mind can't take it.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
And so what gets dialed down? Because you said sometimes
now you look at him and say, I could see
an episode coming there? Is it stressed now? Because I mean,
the craziest the best thing I heard about Gucci that
I was like, damn, I'm like Gucci. He was like, Gucci,
go to sleep at eight o'clock, nine o'clock. You tired.
Nine o'clock. I'll be like, kids are time to go
to sleep. I'll be tired too. But what gets you
to that episode?

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Now?

Speaker 2 (12:25):
When I had the.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
Episode in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, it was COVID that
really just messed me up. And then another thing what
triggered the episode was I got my teeth done and
they put me on the anesthesia and the drugs messed
me up.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
When I came from an understegia.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
I was having an episode flipping out, and I'm like, damn,
I ain't even do you know, I can understand that,
you know what I'm saying, So even if I go
it's like, damn, I never thought that would be a trigger,
but that was a trigger, So it could be a
multitude of things.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
But it's interesting though, because when I read the book,
I feel like you always had a level of self awareness,
Like even when you talk about going to get the
ice cream cone tattoo on your face, as you said
it was a cry for help. It was why you
felt like nobody heard you even when you were doing
all that, why you think nobody heard.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Everybody thought it was like a marketing a marketing campaign.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (13:10):
Nobody Like I remember, I remember like the whole it
was like I had went to court. They told me
they had to go to a minial hospital, like because
I tried to say, like, you know, try to tell them,
like listen, some of the stuff I'm doing, I'm not
in my right mind when I'm doing it, and they
sent me to a minial hospital and then it went
on the media, and I feel just remember when they
start saying, like I got to go to a million hospital,
the embarrassment I feel, And then it's like maybe it

(13:32):
wasn't even two three, three, four days later that's when
I got the ice cream com tattoo. So if it
was almost like a cry for help. You see what
I'm saying, I can't explain. It's hard for me to
put it in words.

Speaker 5 (13:42):
You know what I'm saying being Gucci man without me,
no one helped him because he's the artist. No one
is gonna say Gucci or not, well, Gucci, you need Mendis.
And they just keep on giving him the weed, giving
him the drugs, and he keep on keeping on. So
that's that was the problem. No one took the time
to like, damn dog, something's really wrong with you. Yeah,

(14:03):
that's how I came and after all of that, like
you need help.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
And I'm telling back then, I used to be like,
ain't nothing wrong with me?

Speaker 4 (14:10):
And they going they kind of like when I'm saying
that the wrong me give me the weed.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
They like going with that.

Speaker 4 (14:17):
You see what I'm saying, Because I'm like, somebody put
something my drink or something like it's an excuse instead
of just saying Okay, no matter, I got a problem,
I need to fix it. It's almost like, you know,
I shouldn't have this problem? Why meets type shit? That's
how I feel, like, why it don't nobody else got
to deal with this but me? So I kind of
like I didn't want to accept it, you know what
I'm saying, because I felt like why I got to

(14:37):
deal with this? You know what I'm saying, Like why
I got to have this affliction? Why I can't be straight?
Why I got to have a mental health problem? Like
why I can't drink really like, why can't drink lean
and smoke like everybody else? Why if I drink the
lane to smoke, I got to be in the mental hospital.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
That's how I used to feel, and it probably it
felt like the people at the label didn't look at
you as a human being, like you were just the
artist that because you said after you got the itream
contact to one of them called you and said, man,
you a genius. Yeah, and you was like, bro, I'm
trump going through.

Speaker 4 (15:02):
I was going with I'm like, damn, I never thought
that it Like when it went viral back then and
just everybody was talking about it, and then it didn't like.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
This was not my intention and I was not doing that.
It was different, was like a cry for help.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
As a question, Keisha, do you wish you around when
when you know I look at Gucci and if you
really think about all the artists that he has touched
and could have signed, he could have been bigger than
any label out there. If you go through them, we
can go from from Thug to Waka, to the Migos
to the list goes on and on and on. Do
you think we had Walker Wago? Do you think if
I was there, I could have helped him build that

(15:36):
empire because he could have been really like an Atlanta death.

Speaker 5 (15:38):
Chair, a thousand person even like we had this conversation
many years ago. I said, Gucci, you just have to
accept that you're not well and fix it. Just accept it,
I said, people take towl all every day. Just take
your medication every day. You'll be fine. Just accept that
you're sick, fix it and you'll be okay. And absolutely
he had so many artists from back in the day,

(16:00):
and because of this, you know, they re signed with
other people or whatever the situation is. And it pisses
me off because none of them respects him, I don't
or give him the credit like Gucci signed me. Gucci's
the one that got me out the slum. Gucci's the
one that changed my life. None of them talks about that.
Not one of them.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Does that ball because it's a lot of artists that
are multi platinum that are still selling records that you
were the first person to give an opportunity to. We
can name the list of the list goes on and on.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
I feel like, you know, I had to hold myself accountable.
I got locked up.

Speaker 4 (16:31):
I messed up the opportunity, you know what I'm saying.
But I'm not saying that they don't have to pay me.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Hommuch.

Speaker 4 (16:37):
I appreciate it, you know what I'm saying. But it's
like that's part of how I was raised and just
who I am. I get fulfillment out of hipping artists,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
I was reaching meant out to them, trying to help
them because I saw talent in them.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
And not just Southern artists, not just.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
Artists, DJing whatever. That's just like who I am, you
know what I'm saying. Like I'm an open door studio.
I'm gonna bring people in I'm gonna work with the
up and coming. That's what I like to do. You
get what I'm saying. If it didn't work out where
it did because I got locked up, I got to say, hey,
I got myself locked up. You know, I messed that up.
But since then I've been doing I've been doing well.
Since I got out, I've been on you know what

(17:09):
I'm saying, been a whole different. Everything been going good.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
I always wondered, did any of those artists reach out
when you were locked up and said, let me help?

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Damn, let me say this. Though he she said nope,
let me say this.

Speaker 4 (17:19):
It is still kind of like paying it forward because
when I got all those artists did come back and
do songs with me, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
But when you get down, did they help?

Speaker 2 (17:26):
They didn't.

Speaker 5 (17:29):
They don't acknowledge him. He doesn't care or feel that way,
but from the outside looking in, they should acknowledge him.
You know, I feel like.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Gucci gets looked at as a hip hop pillar, though
I feel like he's like, look, I feel like Gucci
gets his just do as an iconic figure and hip
hop and all the artists he put on no but
would you like to.

Speaker 5 (17:50):
See Key like I would like them, all of them
to acknowledge him, even if they win an award. Acknowledge
him because he gave you the stomping around.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Most people don't know Nicki Minaj came out of that
camp French Montana came half those people we know well.
Most people don't know that Migos meos stuff like.

Speaker 5 (18:10):
Most people because they don't say it right.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
I love I love the chapter Pills and postion too
because you said you feel guilty for making the song Pills,
because you made a whole generation start getting high on pills.
How do you rectify that guilt.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
I can live with it now because it's like, it
is what it is, you know what I'm saying. But
back then, I know that I like made a lot
of people use drugs. I talked about drugs, druge drugs,
drugs all through my music because that's what I was
on back then. And I'm just like, damn, I know
I made a whole bunch of people think Pills was cool.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
I know that for a fact. You know what I'm saying,
and that ain't nothing.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
I'm just super proud of, you know, But what can
I do it's in the past now.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
And at the same time it was I was also
a user too, so I was going going through it
with them.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
The interesting thing about that chapter two, you said that
your whole team didn't like that song.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
They didn't.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
I'm old it was because I'm sure some of them
was on pills too, So what was it they didn't when.

Speaker 4 (19:01):
I first, like even when I had like one foot
the in, one foot out, A lot of my guys
who were hustling, We used to think I would like
my crew hustling, but it's they just think like pills
and stuff like that was like jacket stuff, you know
what I'm saying. They're thinking, like, if you do coke,
eat like a jacket, you take pills, you're a jacket.
They all that was cool with with smoking weed, even
taking a drinking lane. They thought it was some jacket stuff, right,
So they really they said, take away from the money,

(19:23):
you see what I'm saying. So it's like, if you're
doing if you're taking pills, you supposed to be selling
the pills. So when I came out with pills, they
went with that. They was like, bro, what you making
a song about taking pills for me? Then the song
ended up blowing up, but they was like they didn't
like the song.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeap when you did Versus? Right, what was your mind
framed during Versus and Keisha when he you knew he
was doing versus against somebody that was his arch enemy
at the time, right, what was your mind frame because
you knew at any moment it could have went back.

Speaker 6 (19:50):
Did you want him to do it?

Speaker 5 (19:51):
I told him not to. I said, you're not doing that.
I said, I will pay you a million dollars not
to do this.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
She told me that, swear to God, like I pay
your million dollars not to do the verses. I'm like,
I'm gonna do the verses.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
So how for people that don't know, how did that
verses come about? And what was your mind to do
the songs that you did in that moment, because I mean,
I think everybody felt it watching and people that were
they were like, oh, this is gonna end up nasty.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Well, I'm trying to think.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
I heard I see in the interview with Jesus was
saying like if I do it Versus, I want to
do it with Gucci.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Right, So after that he had.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
Hit me like, Bro, you heard Jesus say he wanted
to do a verse with you, would you do it?
And I was like, I don't know if I do that.
I don't know if I want to do no verse.
I ain't really really do yet. Then he came back like, bro,
I think this would be big if.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
You do it. So next thing, you know, Swiss and
Larry Jackson end up hearing me and we end up
doing say we're gonna do the verses right, And my
mind frame going into it was like it's going it was.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
I was excited about it, like because all the previous
verses were so big, So I'm like, man, it's dope.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
You know what I'm saying. It's gonna be big for me.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
Everybody gonna be like, my catalog gonna go up, people
gonna just so out looking.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
And I was excited about it.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
And oh, actually, Jesu said, he said here on Breakfast Club,
he wanted to do it with you, but you turned
it down. That's what That's what that conversation was. That
was back in twenty twenty.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
I don't think I turned it down. I don't think
I think I turned down during versus period. But I
was open to do the verses when they finally broke
it down to me like, Okay, this the business about it,
this all this good can come out of it, and
I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Did y'all think it was KESHI? You didn't want to
do it because you knew he could potentially have an episode.

Speaker 5 (21:26):
Of No, I just don't trust it. I don't know.
God forbid Jesus go say the wrong thing and and
things pop off. I ain't got the time.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
Where were you when he was doing versus?

Speaker 5 (21:37):
I was pregnant at home. No, he didn't want me there,
so you were watching it. My hands was wet sweat,
and I'm nervous. I'm like, Lord, Jesus helped me.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
So what he did that song? What were you thinking
when he did that song? And what do you think
that did that song?

Speaker 5 (21:48):
Like? Oh my, I'm just like this like every like
any normal person. I'm in the bed watching it like
everybody else.

Speaker 6 (21:55):
Scared And Jesus you said you were lucky that. I'm sorry,
I'm sorry.

Speaker 7 (21:59):
Sorry, Gucci you said that you were happy that Jeez
took the moment to kind of like kind of shift there.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
I would say, in hindsight, I'm like I respect the
way he did.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
What he said, you know what I'm saying, and uh,
you know what he said made sense, you know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
But at that moment, in the moment, like the heat
of the moment.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
I wasn't thinking like I'm happy he said that. The
moment was just like, man, what is he talking about?

Speaker 2 (22:21):
You know what I'm saying. Let's get on to the
what we're doing. I ain't. But when I look back
on and I'm like, that was smart. You know what
I'm saying. That was smart and it was deep.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
Did y'all speak before, y'all diversity personal, y'all just speak
before here? How was that conversation with that the first
time y'all spoke throughout the years of Man one?

Speaker 4 (22:39):
It was funny because we seen it, y'all on the airplane, right,
he was sitting in my seat. God, that's the crazy jolly.
He's sitting in my seat right. So I'm like, damn,
I don't even want to talk to him. But I
got to tell the dude to get out my seat.
So like I'm like, hey, man, you see, you got
to get out of my seat.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
But he see who it is.

Speaker 4 (22:57):
He like, well, I'm sitting in the same seat. Can't
you sit mom? Like, Nah, I can't sit in your seat.
You just got to get up. There was the conversation
we had.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Product.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
If anybody else, you probably be like, God, go ahead,
I got you got to get up.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
You got to get up, And he don't want to
get up.

Speaker 4 (23:11):
I can't be cause my pro I can't my problem
won't let me say that you in my season.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
I just okay, I'm gonna sit over here. Yeah, no,
dog get up.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Probably won't allow him to be like manca man told
me to get up.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Oh, he got up and moved. He got up and move.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
That's funny because I remember fifty y'all said the first
time they see each other was on a flight. They
were both It's like, you can't wild out in there,
so you gotta be easy.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
But No, in your first book, you said y'all had
dinner somewhere before.

Speaker 4 (23:37):
No, we we we met up at a restaurant.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, so we had met before, but I'm saying this
is how I got out. That was like, we met.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
At that restaurant way way back. That was like twenty
ten or something like that.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
But you said y'all had decided if I remember correctly
in the book, you said y'all decided to squash the.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Beef then, but then we end up ended. I think
he saw each other at the club, Yes, and it
didn't go right? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (24:00):
What is it like now?

Speaker 7 (24:01):
Like have you guys spoken sense versus and you know
both of you are so evolved at this point.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
I did the interview on Big Fast, and I'm like,
it ain't really been no disrespect since then. Everybody everything cool,
but you know we okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
Well make sure they okay?

Speaker 6 (24:14):
Got you love it?

Speaker 1 (24:15):
In episode you call yourself a recovering mad man. Right,
you know what does madness look like to you today?
And how do you recognize it when they try to
creep back in?

Speaker 4 (24:24):
Madness is like very evil side of me, you know,
it's very no compassion, no empathy, like void of just
of good.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (24:37):
It's like empty eyes soulss Like I say the most
meanest things like That's why I said so embarrassing after.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
It was like god, like, I can't even believe I said.

Speaker 4 (24:46):
I've been saying stuff. I can't even think I know
how to curse and say.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (24:50):
I've been going so deep in into the dungeon. I'm
talking about seriously that It's like, I'm so embarrassed about
what I said afterwards, Like that's that's what it madness,
Like it's it's you see how like when Kanye flip
out and he starts saying and.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
He just like go deep. I'm like that, it's just
getting bad.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
Like she said, the only thing about it was my
wife been keeping it so like when I did have episode,
nobody in the public side. But man, you know, I
just want to give grace and just say thank you
to all the people who close to me who had
to say some stuff too.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Y'all know I didn't mean it.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
You know, what is madness? Looked like the UK when
you see it creeping up in Google.

Speaker 5 (25:25):
There was one time he stood outside for twenty four
hours at the door, just standing. I said, get inside. No,
I said, did somebody give you a cookie or lace it?
What is wrong with you? Because I'm not even catching on.
I just want to stand up out here, he said,
other twenty four hours. So I said, okay, there's an
episode coming. I wasn't that good of a pro yet.

(25:47):
So the episode came like a week or two after that.
So that was a sign, So you do you.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Have to just let him be in those moments, even
though you just standing outside. You just let him stand there.

Speaker 5 (25:57):
No now, No, I don't play with him now. And
I let him stand out there for the twenty four
hours even four or five am he out there? But
if he was to do that now or he going to.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
The hospital, do you kids break you out that episode?
Like when you see the kids, you're like, nah, he.

Speaker 5 (26:09):
Has episode.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Like that would make me just.

Speaker 4 (26:13):
Be so scared about Like that would scared me, Like
I cannot leveling my kids seeming like that, and I
can never not be well, like I'm not on point
to be needed to handle the business or raising the
baby like I'm you know what I'm saying, Like I
get them up for school every day. I can't be
in the hospital, you know what I'm saying. My little boy,
he can't even stand a day without me like that.
I miss you when I leave. So I just want

(26:34):
to be on point for my kids.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
Do you miss old Gucci me? And when I say
old Gucci, I mean going out being in the studio
with your artists.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
I kind of miss being It's only certain things from
like my manic behavior. That that's good, and that's like
I kind of like used to be in the studio.
I used to be way more productive, you know what
I'm saying. I work out two times a day. I
used to be I be restless, you know what I'm saying.
So I do, like I ain't trying to like romanticize
that part about it, but this is a part about

(27:04):
this man that it makes you like super hard working,
like you don't even need sleep, you just stay in
the studio. You just always so you're so prolific. It
probably it made me really prolific. So I do miss
that part. Like now I'm not just prolific. I don't
put out a hundred mistakes. I only put out one
album every two years. I'm not you know, I'm just
like a family man. Now, you know what I'm saying,
I'm slow down.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
Do you like that better?

Speaker 5 (27:25):
I love it Now he's normal.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
He's normal.

Speaker 7 (27:29):
I saw you say that. Going to East Atlanta sometimes
like triggers different episodes for you and you can talk
about that.

Speaker 6 (27:36):
Were you about to say something.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
No, say it does trigger me going to Eastern Lita.

Speaker 6 (27:39):
What in writing this book?

Speaker 7 (27:41):
What other things from your upbringing did you realize, like, oh,
that was one of my triggers? Are these episodes and
I didn't even know like family stuff or just you know,
stuff from.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
Like young Yeah, like stuff with my mom triggers me.
Uh we had like a screen relationship stuff for my
youth trigger man, you know. Oh and ships you know
that went soide. Ah, There's a lot of stuff can
be triggered. I get you know, some songs even tricker me,
you know, just from like like you said, like I

(28:11):
screened relationships, like even hearing so icy.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
I don't like hearing so icy.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (28:14):
You know, it's kind of like a trigger state scrapped
would be a trigger, you know what I'm saying. Hearing
that like I got ten K on your bottom like
the wis side probably couldn't have took that, you know,
like that would have triggered me.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
You don't do those songs.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
You don't do them songs.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
What trigger is you? Boy used to land on? What
is it? Burma Alabama?

Speaker 2 (28:34):
I would say East Atlanta, but I don't want to.
I don't want to.

Speaker 4 (28:39):
Bessmer kind of depresses me because it's like when you
go down there, it's so like it's like damn you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
It's it's like, damn, it's it's a tough place to
grow up at.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
And when I go back there, like it, Damn, that
made me cry just looking at the buildings and there.
Because you're from a small town like I'm from. It's
so small and rural and like you know, it's there's
no money down there, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
So it just looked it feel dark.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
East Atlanta is just dangerous.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
It's still dangerous, is always gonna be dan It just
when I go there just make me change. It made
me like I just it, I almost turn into a
different person, Like the coners, the blocks, just I just
just reliving all the stuff I did on those blocks,
you know, the people there. It's just I try to
stay away from triggers.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
And you say, you're even reading the book and seeing
the effects that like systemic racism had on you, Like
watching the KKK, you know, March to Your Time? Is
that still a trigger us?

Speaker 2 (29:35):
It kind of is? It is it is.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
I still like hold some of that stuff in me.
You know what I'm saying, That I seen when I
was young, from best one. That's why I kept my
label ten seventeen because I'm like, I don't.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Never want to forget.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
Even though I was raised in Atlanta, people I always
associate me with Atlanta. I never want to forget, you know,
the life I live there, and I never want to
forget like my family.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Then what they going through.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
You said during the Big Facts interview that the police
you feel like they still have it out for you
in Atlanta.

Speaker 4 (30:03):
I feel like they did they did back when I
first got I feel like because they used to do
stuff like you know what I'm saying, Like I would
be when I first had got out of jail. I
would go places and the police would just run my name,
you know what I'm saying. And then I was on probation,
So my probation, but I was like, hey, did you
go to such and such because the police ran your
name and there, like they were just trying to see
if I get They just they just it's just too much.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
So what do you tell artists like your thugs and
your little babies that probably feel the same way as you,
You say it might be time to get to Atlanta.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
I told the baby that I've been told the baby,
hey man, he might be too big for the city
might need to move, you know what I'm saying. I
never got a chance to tell a thug that, but
I definitely told baby that before because.

Speaker 6 (30:40):
He used to be there.

Speaker 7 (30:40):
The baby used to be there just walking around like regularly,
like the grocery stores and everything.

Speaker 4 (30:44):
Because he's so comfortable that I got to comfort that,
like even time I went. If I'm in Atlanta and
I have an episode, I go straight to my block
because I know that block like the back of my hand.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
I'm always like, I always go there.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
It's just like them for me. It's like it's two
for me for me, you know what I'm say saying,
it's two for me. Sometimes something two for me for
you. You got to get away from that because it's too
much comfort there. It ain't no growth in comfort.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I need to be well.

Speaker 4 (31:07):
Like I'm here to the count Plank, you cant get
held account of. If I go to Easter Atlanta Lane coming,
we coming. All I got to do is just stand
on the block.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
I want to ask you, Keisha, how do you how
do you define recovery? Because you've seeing them matters worse
and now you're seeing them at his best, So how
would you define recovery. For somebody that is dealing with
somebody who's trying to recover from their mental.

Speaker 5 (31:27):
Health issues, the first thing you need is medication. You
cannot it cannot go on medicated. And the quicker the better,
because once they're medicated, they usually get better in like
two weeks. It's not it's not overnight. It's literally like
fourteen days for them to be back to normal. So
for him, like let's say he started his medication after

(31:49):
an episode. He started his medication today, right three days later,
he was like, oh, my wife, you're so beautiful. I
could tell by his words that he's getting better. And
then tomorrow he might say and I'm like, oh shit,
he's not better yet. Like I could just tell by
his tone.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Who do you talk to? Keis like, do you have
a therapist?

Speaker 5 (32:08):
No, I'm the therapist. He'll tell you. I'm like a
real therapist. I know how to speak to him. You
have to speak calm, you cannot scream. Sometimes you have
to agree with what he's saying. Like he'll say give
me five hundred grand and I'm like, okay, I don't
do it, but I say okay. Whatever he asks for,
I say yes, But I don't do it, but you

(32:29):
can't go against them. So he'll text somebody and cuss
them out, and I'll go back to his phone and
I'll say, block him. He's having an episode. So I
just I'm just a clean up lady.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
I gotta say this.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
Remember Julia greenwhile used to be the head of Atlanta,
I had an episode and said so much bad stud
of Judah.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
I said that.

Speaker 4 (32:47):
When I came from I said, listen, Judi, now, if
I text you anything crazy, block me for block me
and call me for two days and call my wife
because this episode comes because I ain't want to lose
My position is a label going through episode, and I'm like,
if you just see, like, if you see like the
texts getting crazy, just block me because I don't want

(33:08):
to come tell you.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
I start saying stuff so bad. It's like you can't
come back.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
From We've seen it before. Yeah, but how do you
protect your peace though?

Speaker 7 (33:19):
Like you because there has to be times where you
feel like the walls are just caving in because it's
so much and it's so personal for you.

Speaker 5 (33:25):
Honestly, I during the moment, I'm kind of like stressed out.
I'm a prayer warrior. I just pray and once he
starts getting better, honestly, I'm okay. And he doesn't stay
sick long. Like I said, it takes fourteen days to
get him back, and after like day three, he's already

(33:45):
come into his senses. But those deep episodes won't happen ever. Again,
we're in twenty five, so the last one was five
years ago. He had a mild one coming maybe two
years ago, and I caught it, So now I catch
them before they come. Like, people be saying stuff about him, like, oh,
he's soft, he's this. See that the mad man is
still there. So I tried my best. I don't want

(34:07):
them to provoke him because it will come back and
he's very dangerous. So y'all listen, please leave him alone
because the mad Max is still in the head.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
Yeah. When I when I saw young thugs say that,
I was just like, man, you know, thug is just young?

Speaker 5 (34:21):
Yeah no, no, no, Gucci ain't soft.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
He's just grown. He's grown.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
When did you when did you develop the trust for
Kishi ky? All right, because it's not just a little
bit of trust, it's almost like you gave everything and
trusted that she was going to be there. For you,
and she was.

Speaker 4 (34:37):
I knew she was a great woman, you know what
I'm saying, But I just wasn't. I wasn't there, you
know what I'm saying. But once I went to jail
and like, some people had stole my money, you know
what I'm saying. So the rest of the I was
like it got to the point where I was like,
the rest of the money I.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Got, I gave it to her. I'm like, because it
had I already had somebody steal, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
So it's like I had nobody else to trust. You know,
I couldn't trust. I didn't even trust my mom, you
know what I'm saying. So I'm like, they we take it.
She said, no, I don't want it. She said, don't
give it to me, find somebody else. I'm like the
only person I got to trust. So it was probably
when I got locked up and went through so many
and just and went through a betrayal.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Because you give her everything where it's like you trust
her with your life, with your business, with everything, and
most people will be so reluctant with that. And that's
also a lot of power for you because you know
that he trusts you so much.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
But you know that pops up on the timeline all
the time. I forgot how much it was. This amount
of money.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
That was facts, that was facts.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
When he tried to give me money all the time,
I'm like, I don't want it. I don't want it.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
She wouldn't take it for a long time, but until
until they stole the money.

Speaker 4 (35:43):
And I'm like, hey, I'm the one that found out.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
She found out, like.

Speaker 5 (35:50):
All his businesses and stuff, I'm like, this one stolen
that one. Like I'm really good at business. So I'm like, hey,
you're being robbed, sir, And he's like, can you do it?
And I'm not getting it. I'm just letting you know.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
That's a Jamaica woman in you my wife. The same way,
then you send your wife to Curse Mount.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Did you tell Gucci you was going to invest the
money or you just went and did it? And when
he came home, he was like, look what we got.

Speaker 5 (36:12):
No, I told him because I was doing stuff with
my own money, and he's like, just do it, and
I'm like but then he was like, just do it,
and I did it and it worked out.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
So you also talk about in the book how you
was at in the Ward Show with Walker and you
was having an episode. Yes, what I loved about that
chapter you said when you sat down you just felt
shame in that moment, I did, What's something you learned,
like in the process of you healing that you just
now viewed with compassion instead of.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Judgment about myself.

Speaker 5 (36:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
Mmm, I'm trying to think it used to be hard
on myself, like kind of like well said, like damn,
I should have this big death jam label and you
know what I'm saying. But then I had to give
myself to like listen, you went through a lot. Just
be okay, you still got you still got.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
A great career. You know what I'm saying. You still
make money, You're still doing good. But yeah, at first
I used to be hard on myself about that.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Do you still beat yourself up like you was sitting
in there Award Show ashamed of what you did? Do
you ever just be like, damn, man, maybe I need
to pick up the phone and call this person, because what.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
You think everybody? I apologize to everybody. I really did.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
You know what I'm saying, Like you know, like aa me,
they tell you, hey, call everybody back, that you ever
wrong That's how I approached. When I got out, I
really was like I wanted everybody to like know I
was sorry that you know what I'm saying. You know,
I still don't want to like use mental health as
not being accountable for what I said because some of
that stuff I wasn't going through the episode. I say
that stuff that was wrong and that you want Leveyody

(37:35):
know like I'm wrong, I'm sorry, you know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (37:37):
I thought it was hearing you talk about why you
called young thugs so quick when he dropped the miss
my dogs because you understood what that apology like you
were there. I thought that was like really, we played
this morning on air, and it was really great to
hear what was y'all conversation?

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Like I didn't call him, I just forget. I just
what I'm saying, I forgive.

Speaker 7 (37:54):
So y'all didn't actually talk. Oh wow, so he found
out you forgive him on that interview.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, he has.

Speaker 6 (37:59):
He reached out tea since the interview.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
To be honest, he was like, he hit me like,
let's let's let's talk, but I ain't really want to talk.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
But I do forgiven. I just didn't want to talk.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Yeah, I understand I'm the same way I can forgive you,
but I still there's certain times I.

Speaker 6 (38:14):
Just I just don't need you just do with that?

Speaker 3 (38:18):
Do you mind being the OG? And the reason I
say that is is you look at the Landa. You
see everything that a Landa's going through. Gucci is that
one person that can stop it? Or I think because
every artist in Atlanta respects you, do you do you
mind that that label as the OGI that can do that?

Speaker 4 (38:33):
Or you just say, you know what I do? You
know what I'm saying, Like I've been in the game
twenty years now, so like I embraced that. You know,
I'm not the high artists trying to drop off, you know,
the hottest single every year and do all that. You know,
I want to be the person that they can come
to and talk to.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Would you want to do that with everything that's going
on in Atlanta?

Speaker 1 (38:51):
I would?

Speaker 2 (38:53):
I would.

Speaker 4 (38:53):
I feel like if they would come to me, but
they don't want to come. I feel like people don't
come to me for advice because it's like even with
my own art, it's like a lot of them, you know,
don't come to me because it's like talking to your dad.
I ain't got nothing but positive to say. I'm trying
to lead by example, and I'm gonna tell you like,
you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't. So they don't even
want to talk to me.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
They would, they'd love to talk to old Gucci.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
I want to talk to cause Gucca ain't really gotten
thating going on. He go to sleep at eight thirty,
like you know nothing, and you do y'all.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Every once in a while the pictures come out and
say Gucci's a clone. Did that make y'all laugh? Or
do y'all die laughing when y'all see the clone Gucci?

Speaker 2 (39:28):
I didn't used to like it at first.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
When I first got out, I felt like it's discredited
everything that I happened, working so hard to do, you
know what I'm saying. I felt like people was hating
saying I was a clone instead of saying yeah, I
didn't like it. Yeah, it died down now. But when
I first got out, I ain't gonna used to be annoying.
I just be like, it's so lame.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
Did you talk Did you talk to Oja? Yeah about
what you was gonna put in the book.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yes, I talked. I talked o j yesterday. That's my dog.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, what do you think about it?

Speaker 2 (39:53):
He loved it.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
I told him, I like, oh, y'all want you to
be a part of the book. I want you to
have your own chapter in the book. I want you
to tell your story because I feel like I would
see him doing a bunch of podcasts telling his story,
and I'm like, I'm gonna use my platform, use my
book so Juice can tell his story even more.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
Because that's like my best like one of my best
friends since I was nine years old. Yeah, we used
to pick up cans together. You know what I'm saying,
that's my dog.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
And you start, like I said, you start the book
talking about one of your newer artists, and you start
in the book talking about you know, oj What were
the similarities you think?

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Just two people that are close to me.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
You know what I'm saying, That mean a lot to me,
losing Scar with something that like I wanted to use
that to help other people because it's just that's still
like I still ain't okay from that, you know what
I'm saying, And OHI have been going through a lot
and I just wanted to show him like, I just
want to show him a little.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
What emotional release did Did writing this book give you
that music couldn't.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
I'm so I'm more proud of this book than I'm
probably in the album I ever put out, because, like
you said, it's kind of like talking about stuff that
I used to be kind of like, UH had a
stigma of you know what I'm saying, you got mental health?

Speaker 2 (40:54):
You crazy. It's like I used to be embarrassed about.

Speaker 4 (40:56):
Some of these situations, and I think used to want
to talk about it. But now I'm confident and talking
about it because I know that I can help somebody else.
And it's like I don't even feel I don't feel
no shame no more.

Speaker 7 (41:07):
And the conversations that you've been having recently, you know,
have you begin to help people in that space where
you're like, yo.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
I did it? Like everybody people.

Speaker 4 (41:15):
I did a book signing in Atlanta and a lot
of folks are coming up to me saying, hey, you know,
thank you for this book. I've been sober eight years,
Thank you for this book. You know I got bipolar.
Thank you for this book.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
My friend.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
You know what I'm saying, be going through episodes like
I was getting a lot of it, and it felt
good to feel that love.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
You know what I'm saying, It really did.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Are you still surprised about the love? I heard you
say something. You were in Miami doing a book signing
and you were surprised about how many people came up
to me and asked for an autograph for your book.
But then I'm thinking about it, I'm like, you just
did South Carolina comee coming that with sold out. You
just did this show that was sold out show, Like.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
It's different when they come up like with that book.
I don't know why, but it's like the book signing
saying when they saying about your book. You know, I've
been rocking with you since I was in junior high.
You know you got me through college. Like it just
the energy, it was like it made me feel I
ain't felt that in a long time. You know, like
touching the people, shaking their hand, taking the selfie with them.
It's like when you do that at about two three

(42:10):
hundred people and they're telling you that you can't do
nothing but feel good.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Know what I'm saying. You're like a mythical figure to
a whole generation. You got sexy red calling yourself the
Female Gucci Man South Carolina State. Them kids asked for you. Yeah,
like I've seen the lists. I'm like, I don't even
know who that is. It was about five. I'm like,
I don't know who these people are, but they're like, oh,
Gucci man, I know Gucci, Like they wanted you at
South Carolina States? How did that make you feel? On

(42:34):
the whole generation? And how that feel good? Feel good?

Speaker 4 (42:36):
When I go through these, I've been doing a lot
of college I do Northfolk State on Tuesday, But like
every time.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
I go to the college in there, like the kids
know all the words. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
The nineteen years old It's like, bro, you still touching
people nineteen years old?

Speaker 2 (42:49):
They know this song?

Speaker 4 (42:50):
They singing songs that came out of two thousand and five,
two thousand six.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
How old were out in? So that feel good?

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Did you? How make you feel keuchy when you see
sexy Red call yourself the female Gucci?

Speaker 6 (43:00):
I love it.

Speaker 5 (43:00):
I love when younger artists pay homage to him, like
I be in the background, like when people don't pay
homage to him or chet respect, I be mad. He
don't get mad or whatever. But I watch everything online
and I analyze it and if and anybody go against him,
I'm going against them too.

Speaker 7 (43:20):
I was going to ask does the book because you said,
you know, seeing people come up to you with the book,
it's like a great feeling for you. Does the book
make you feel like a superhero versus like music didn't?
Because we talked about like our og like rappers being
like superhero sis, which a lot of people I feel
like they look at you that way.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
I'm super proud of being the author. You know what
I'm saying. I read a lot of books.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
I read. People just don't write it about me, But
I read a ton of books. You know what I'm saying.
I probably read two three books a month.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
You know what I'm saying, Big Macolm glad Wolf, you
a huge.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Big knock glad Well fan. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
He just did a book range at a type of
point that I read that I love.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
You know.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
But I'm proud of being the author because I love books,
and so it's like it's a different thing to being
a rapper. You know what I'm saying. I want to
make some more books. I like being a prolific art
I'm trying to have more bus than Charlemagne.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah, I got three yet I want to, I really do,
because I'm telling you, people who have to deal with
those of us with mental health issues don't t stories enough.

Speaker 5 (44:21):
Yeah, I think it's harder being me than him going
through an episode because it's scary, like like we had
a condo where we were on like the Penthouse, and
I'm like, shit, is he gonna jump? Is the voice
gonna tell him to jump? Like that's the scary part,
not me being scared of him hurting me. So like
during episodes, I make sure no one is around him

(44:42):
with guns, knives, high buildings. But he wouldn't leave that.
That's where I had to kidnap him from. He would
not leave there. He wouldn't come to the house, and
I'm like, shit, I had to get like a babysitter
for him because he hated me different episodes. He hate
different people that if you have an episode where he
hates me, that's a problem. He hated me. He wouldn't
come home. He got the damn balcony, and I'm like,

(45:04):
is the voice gonna tell him? I can't sleep at night?
I have to What is he doing now did he
eat today? Like I have to play games with his
friends from Atlanta who he want to be with, and
and then I'm like, don't give him any we throw
it in the garbage. They called me back, Oh he
needs read I gave him we today. I said, no,
you didn't. You know, like stuff like that. It's hard.
It's so so, so so stressful, like you want to cry.

(45:26):
And I cannot read that book. It's too sad, it's
too much for me. It's too I don't read it.
I read probably like three pages and I had to quit.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
What about what about You? When you got to relive
all of it.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Made me a big almost made me cry. And this
book almost made me crying, almost made him cry.

Speaker 5 (45:50):
I book was putting Hi through an episode that I
caught it got day one.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
So revisiting the trauma, yes, it puts him back.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
But I can't las especially the best Alabama part is
like damn that take me back there?

Speaker 1 (46:03):
You know.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
It's like then I started thinking about, you know, when
I was young, my granddad and my mom like damn,
we was poor, and I'm like, I don't. I don't
think about that no more. You know what I'm saying,
that was like, I know we were poor, but it
ain't like that. Not Well, when you go back to
think about it, like damn man, the racist as time,
poor as hell, you know, staying with my granddad, me
and my mom my brother's like, we ain't have shit,

(46:24):
we ain't have shit.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
So how do you protect yourself while revisiting that druma
and on that press run and how do you protect them? Kisi?

Speaker 5 (46:32):
Well, the press run doesn't bother him. It's just like
when he was writing the book, because he has to
keep saying these things over and over and over. And
actually this was my idea. I was like, you need
to do a movie called episode and let people know
what's going on. I said, I can tell you everything
you've done through your episodes because he doesn't remember. And
I was telling him how to make the movie.

Speaker 4 (46:53):
And that's how that's how we started the book, because
she told me to make a movie as soon as.

Speaker 5 (46:56):
You have the episode. I was like this, people need
to see this, I said, I said, you don't have
to use your name. Let's just say you said.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
You know that if you ever seen that movie that
is about mental health withing she I seen a movie
about mental health with Dona Ross and you need to
do a movie about Elvis.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
That's how it went, but I can't remember.

Speaker 4 (47:12):
It's like old Dona Ross play Billy Holliday and they
say Bill how they had mental health issues.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
She saw that.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
She saw that movie and then she was like, you
need to make make a move about yourself with the episodes.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Wow, did you ever have to tell Kathy you need
a break? Like, yo, man, let's take a break.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
No, I ain't never tell her. I just I just
ain't gonna lie with therapeutic. I liked doing it.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
I was having fun doing it because it was like
even like okay, when I was talking to Rocco and
talking to Juice and they were telling me the stuff
that I did, I had to tell them like, Bro,
I don't remember. I was like Rock, like you don't
remember what was in Vegas and you had told me
to come to the room.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
I told you that.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
I'm like, I'm like Rock, I'm telling you, I don't remember.
I was going through episode done.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
He's like, damn, Bro, for real, he didn't he didn't know.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
Of course he didn't know, you know, and man, I
would have never let you in the studio. They got
done in that house. You know, he's so sanctified him
and his family. It's like, you don't bring that over
they house. They like the church. The house is like
going to church. You know what I mean. You don't
bring drugs there, you don't bring beef there, you don't

(48:15):
bring nothing.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Now, you just come there with good intentions. It's all good.
It's a bit. It's a that's when you see like
that family unit. You see that in say house. You
know what I'm saying. You see somebody.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
You see a mother and a father who really care
about their child, which is they in the game. A
whole basement studio right there for him to create with
his friend.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Like you can't even bring that over there.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
But you could tell he loved you though, because he
she would answer every call. You would come over and
he'd be like, man, what's wrong with you?

Speaker 4 (48:39):
Say one of my that's one of my best friends
ever like that, Like I love saying for that. Like
he always opened his doors for me. He knew I'd
be going through stuff, like he never held it against me.
He always room for me. Like if anybody ever had
my back, like far as music, like they had my back.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
Yeah, I want to ask you what was What is
your vice now right? Is it working out? Is it
the family? Is it praying?

Speaker 5 (49:01):
Like?

Speaker 3 (49:02):
What's what gets you away there?

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Before working out?

Speaker 4 (49:04):
It's a vice working I work out six six days
out the week, sometimes two times, two times a day.

Speaker 5 (49:10):
That definitely helps with the mental health.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Shopping not really shocking. I don't shop. I don't even like.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
I don't even buy cars like I used to buy
cars every year, like you know, swishing my life. Now
I ain't about a cart since twenty twenty. I just
got one founder and I take the kids to school
in the fountal.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
That was in the book. You said something. I'm like,
there's no way. You said you used to spend just
as much money on drugs as cars, and you did.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Man, lean used to be so high. I used to be.
I'm like, I used to have so much.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
We remember, like I got a studio, I got all
the artists, so I would supply everybody. I got lean
and weed for us. That's why they never used to
leave the studio. They come over there as you're like
a part of the house.

Speaker 5 (49:49):
Then when I go there, the lean is in juice.
It's not allowed to drink around me.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Switch it up, so I put it in a juices.

Speaker 5 (49:57):
What if I was to drink it, You don't drink juice.
I was being strict black men because when I go there,
it's like, oh, she's here. Put the leading up. But
now that we didn't live together then, but now he
I mean he would never.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
But wow, we all married the beautiful black woman and
I want gucci. You tell me how important is it
to have a good woman. Man.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
It's the most important thing you can have, the best
decision you can make. My best decision ever was to
marry her and be with her.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
Right.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
I got somebody to, you know, hold me accountable, and
I got somebody you know, watch TV with. Sometimes that's
all you want to do, cheer bro. I'm kind of like, don't.
I don't really need a lot.

Speaker 5 (50:40):
Like we're just like best friends and we just home
just chilling and we everything we do we have it
in common with, like the same food, the same shows.

Speaker 6 (50:49):
We both.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Like to.

Speaker 7 (50:54):
I want to say, you know, watching y'all, like from Afar,
you You've been so strong throughout all of this. We
would have never known how much you were taking on
because you also have like the businesses you were doing
at the same time, like, did you do you feel
because there's a whole like lane of women who do
like the makeup like Keisha Kor and the because of
the products that you were doing. Do you feel that

(51:16):
impact as well while holding all this down? Do you
feel that for yourself?

Speaker 6 (51:19):
Sometimes?

Speaker 5 (51:20):
No, I'm really strong, you know, and I still still
do my makeup. I still have my company. Still, I
still do everything. I I have like a schedule, I
have everything down that I do daily, and I still
do it even during his episodes. I still get myself how.

Speaker 7 (51:36):
You did all of this because cosmetics literally influenced such
a generation, the hairstyles, the clothing, like and people, I
mean people know, but I don't know if they talk
about that enough with you. But then you're also holding
down all this stuff as well too, Like God, bless you.

Speaker 5 (51:52):
I thank you and thank you God.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Do you think you're healing journeys over?

Speaker 4 (51:58):
I know, even like we talk about from the verses
to now, like I knew I'm mature to lie from
twenty twenty to twenty twenty five, I'm still growing and
it's in a good way, you know what I'm saying, Like,
don't really nothing get me mad?

Speaker 1 (52:10):
No, more.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
You know what I'm saying, Like I don't hold on
to petted beast, I don't hold on to grievances. I
don't care about slights. I ain't used to be like that,
you know what I'm saying. Now It's like I'm in
a real calm space though. You know, but it ain't
even that's just who I am now, It ain't who
I'm trying to be.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
You know what I'm saying, That's where I've grown to be.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
If you can redefine what it means to be real
in hip hop culture, what new code would you give
that this new generation?

Speaker 4 (52:35):
Oh man, I let them know, like they talking about
their hood, but the best hood is fatherhood.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
That's what you know, That's what I'm most proud of.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (52:43):
I love I love being in called dad. You know,
I love being a present dad. That's like I didn't
even know that it was. There's so much joy and
raising kids that it is. But you know what I'm saying,
Like raising the family has changed me. It has changed
for the better.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Man. It's interesting. Have you spoken like other artist thing
are on the healing journey, Like we had Little John
up here, you can see the trend, you know, seeing
that he on his healing journey. You know, even people
like Giez do y'all Do y'all speak about that? How
far y'all come?

Speaker 5 (53:10):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Probably like me and Zay Mike will Mitte. Yeah, we
just spoke about that.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
So what does peace feel like for you? Right now?

Speaker 4 (53:19):
Peace feels like just you know, renting my label, being
with my family, ah, being content with what I did
in the industry, you know what I'm saying, and just
keep building.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
What does peace feel like for you? Keisha?

Speaker 5 (53:35):
I like to see him well, I don't like to
see him like stressed out. That's why in my interview
with Carlos, I said, only think he got to do
a shower and go to the studio. I don't allow
him to do anything else because I don't want him
he can't handle stress, because stress is a trigger and
stress brings on episodes. So I don't allow any stress.

(53:56):
He just be calm, wake up, go to bed early,
take care of the kids, go to the studio, and
that's it.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
I was gonna say, they criticized you about that, but
I think people don't understand because they're not in a
good union, right.

Speaker 7 (54:11):
But I think reading the book and hearing the journey
that you guys have been on behind the scenes that
a lot of people didn't know about. I was sitting
here thinking, like you, you created a safe space for him.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
Yeah, but that's.

Speaker 5 (54:23):
And he didn't want that either. He wanted to go
back to Atlanta, and I'm like, going where. You got
another house in Atlanta and I refuse to go there
with him, So like, I have to just put my
foot down. So we got rid of that.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
I never would go to the house.

Speaker 5 (54:37):
And if I go to Atlanta, I stay in a hotel.
We're not living here. It's not this is not good
for you.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
I was gonna say they got on you for that,
but like I said, people don't understand union, right. And
the reason I say that is I'm sure Gucci's whole
thing is I want to make sure my wife is good.
I want to make sure my family is good. I
want to protect them from the outside there. But as
a wife, you're the total opposite. I want to make
sure he's okay. I want to make sure he's not
gonna have Stressful'm gonna makeure im, want to make sure
he can work and whatever it takes to do that.

(55:03):
That's what the wife does. That's what my wife does,
that's what his wife does. But that's what a union is.
And most people who don't have a union.

Speaker 5 (55:09):
They don't get it. And every marriage relationship is different.
You might have a relationship where you have to take
care of your wife, but I have to. My husband
takes very good care of me. I'm not neither or
want for anything, but I have to take care of
him first because he has mental health issues.

Speaker 6 (55:24):
I don't. I'm stronger than he is.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Well, the biggest thing we appreciate you for joining us.
I just want to say, the biggest thing that made
me so happy. When you see Gucci talking about his kids,
I don't know, if you see the smile on his
you start a smile, start grinning. He like, I can't
wait to get back and get to my son.

Speaker 5 (55:43):
Like that is the biggest thing I see him right now, He'll.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Leave you feel like a generational curse breaker.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Yes, yes, I know. My little boy. He gonna inherit
all this, He got so much, he so turned up.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
Trust, ain't nothing wrong with it.

Speaker 6 (56:00):
You know he said it with a smile.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
That's right, man, Go get episodes Right Now Man and
Diary of a Recovering Man. Man, this is there's some
books that are good. This is good, but it's also important.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
Man, it's important.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
My album today to Man's.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Episode, I ain't even get that.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
I didn't get to Let's get to a joint off
the album. What you want to hear of the album?

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Voices?

Speaker 3 (56:21):
Voices? It's Gucci, Man, thank you so much for joining us. Now, Gucci,
I know you don't come out but every couple of years,
but you gotta come back. I know every one while
you have to come back.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
I want to brother.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
Yeah, you used to listen to Breakfast Clive in the
morning when you work out. Don't know if you still do,
but you gotta come back.

Speaker 4 (56:36):
I listen to y'all every day before I go to
the gym, and not my favorite part is the Positive Today.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
There we go.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
He loves that all you're positives.

Speaker 4 (56:44):
Soon as I'm going to the gym, we around the gym.
We listen to y'all. But it's like the Positive Today
ain't stopped. Let me hear what he's saying.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
That's what it is.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
It's the Breakfast Club, Good Morning

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Every day week Click up the breakfast club, y'all.