The National Party has dropped their social media ban for under-16s and it will instead be lead by Education Minister Erica Stanford.
The Prime Minister announced social media restrictions will become a part of the Government’s work programme.
Stanford will work across government to explore options for legislation and bring them to cabinet for consideration.
Social media parenting expert Malinda Maclean talks to Ryan Bridge about the plans.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The member's bill has become a government bill. This is
the Business on Kids and Social Media. Catherine Wed's Instaban
bill stays in the ballot, but Luxon says that parents
love this idea. So Erica Stanford has picked up the
government work on the under sixteen social media restrictions. They're
calling them not a ban but potential restrictions. Now. Melinda
(00:21):
McLain is a social media parenting expert from the new
group Before sixteen. Who's with me this morning, Linda, Good morning,
Karida Ryan, Good to have you on the show. First
of all, this group that's been set up, is this
all a coincidence that it's been set up at this
at the time that the government's doing all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
No, not a coincident. I think two things at play.
One is that Before sixteen has actually been working on
this issue in the background for months, nearly a year,
and has been raising the issue across all members of
Parliament in all parties. But there's also a point that
(01:01):
we're hitting as a society, I think where we've got
this sort of tidal wave of awareness around some of
the harm and the issues, so you know, we are
really coming to I think a societal turning point which
the government is aware of as well as as well
as parents who are who are actually sort of waking
up to the issues.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Is the problems. The age verification thing is a big
problem right. This is what the Australians are having problems with.
How do you verify a child's age without us all
having to send in a photo of our passports?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Ran I think this is a really big misconception that
thing that this can't be done. So there's a couple
of things I'd say. So the first is that age
verification currently exists within big tech platforms, so they are
using their own age verification systems with a lot of
accuracy already. They just have never had an incentive to
deploy this as something that they need to do to
(01:54):
have a minimum age because there's no legislation to enforce it.
And the other thing I'd say is that there's an
higher age verification industry outside of the tech that are
working on this as well, and it hasn't so much
been a problem in Australia. It's that Australia is going
through a process of prototyping different options and being pitched
to by a bunch of different organizations and working out
(02:15):
what the best solution is. How do you not that
they can't do it?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Can you explain how they do do it then?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Without Yeah, so there's a couple of different ways, and
what we think would be the best way would be
a combination of what's called facial recognition, biometric scanning, and
then using an ID token to match those two things.
And these can be done with over ninety nine percent accuracy,
That's what all the trials are saying.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And so you have to give your biometric data to Facebook.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
No, in simple terms, you're not handing over your data.
This is done externally by a third party, and you
don't hand over your data. So it just it will
basically verify an ID token. That doesn't mean you're handing
over your data.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Who how do that? How do they verify it? Then?
I mean they must have to know that it's yours.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, there will have to be a linking to this
and the same way that we do this with things
like real Me accounts for bank accounts. It's just the
issue with verification with something like real Me is that
that's not working on actually determining the difference between a
fifteen and a sixteen year old. So that's the key.
The key.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
What about because there are problems that well, it could
create problems for other people. Isn't this about parents knowing
what their kids are doing. If you don't want your
kid on social media, don't buy them a smartphone.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I think that is something that would commonly be said
by people who are not a parent of a thirteen
or fourteen year old.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
That is me, to be transparent, that is me.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
There we go this. You parents are not equipped to
face up to what is happening with big tech. It
is moving too fast. And we're not even talking about
the issues of deep fakes of AI companions. You know,
we are simply talking about the algorithmic feeding of content
at the.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Moment, but the actually owning the phone in the first place.
Explain to me why that is so hard that a
parent can't say to their kid n I mean, my
mom said no to me about so many things growing up.
I wasn't allout a cell phone. I mean, yeah, what's
so hard about saying no till you're sixteenth?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah? I think the other thing that legislation will do,
because it's a really it's a really good point. Why
not just say no? But but actually, parents are no
match for this. And if you're out on a limb
with your kid, which at the moment, because the societal
norms are so far the other way, those need to
shift dramatically.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So so parents and parents actually just need a harden
up and tough enough.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
This is not a parenting issue, Ryan, this is and
it is It is unfair to put this on to parents.
They cannot, they cannot be a match for these big
tech companies. And we while while we do need but
you can.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
If you don't have a phone, Okay, I mean, I
mean simple. They big tech can't get you without a smartphone.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
They can get you, and they can get you through
iPads and family computers and laptops. And what we're talking
about is a really comprehensive overhaul of our online safety
reforms for kids in New Zealand. We are shockingly behind
and so parents will have a role in this, but
actually we need change at a system level and we
need the government as a first step to set in
(05:24):
place some legislation. And Erica Stanford is an excellent person
to be leading.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Good She's the best person you could have on the job.
I reckon, Melinda, Hey, interesting stuff where you look forward
to having more debates like this and I'm sure in
the days and weeks and months ahead. Melinda McLain with
a social media parenting expert from the group Before sixteen.
For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live
to News Talks it Be from five am weekdays, or
(05:50):
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
The member's bill has become a government bill. This is
the Business on Kids and Social Media. Catherine Wed's Instaban
bill stays in the ballot, but Luxon says that parents
love this idea. So Erica Stanford has picked up the
government work on the under sixteen social media restrictions. They're
calling them not a ban but potential restrictions. Now. Melinda
(00:21):
McLain is a social media parenting expert from the new
group Before sixteen. Who's with me this morning, Linda, Good morning,
Karida Ryan, Good to have you on the show. First
of all, this group that's been set up, is this
all a coincidence that it's been set up at this
at the time that the government's doing all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
No, not a coincident. I think two things at play.
One is that Before sixteen has actually been working on
this issue in the background for months, nearly a year,
and has been raising the issue across all members of
Parliament in all parties. But there's also a point that
(01:01):
we're hitting as a society, I think where we've got
this sort of tidal wave of awareness around some of
the harm and the issues, so you know, we are
really coming to I think a societal turning point which
the government is aware of as well as as well
as parents who are who are actually sort of waking
up to the issues.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Is the problems. The age verification thing is a big
problem right. This is what the Australians are having problems with.
How do you verify a child's age without us all
having to send in a photo of our passports?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Ran I think this is a really big misconception that
thing that this can't be done. So there's a couple
of things I'd say. So the first is that age
verification currently exists within big tech platforms, so they are
using their own age verification systems with a lot of
accuracy already. They just have never had an incentive to
deploy this as something that they need to do to
(01:54):
have a minimum age because there's no legislation to enforce it.
And the other thing I'd say is that there's an
higher age verification industry outside of the tech that are
working on this as well, and it hasn't so much
been a problem in Australia. It's that Australia is going
through a process of prototyping different options and being pitched
to by a bunch of different organizations and working out
(02:15):
what the best solution is. How do you not that
they can't do it?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Can you explain how they do do it then?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Without Yeah, so there's a couple of different ways, and
what we think would be the best way would be
a combination of what's called facial recognition, biometric scanning, and
then using an ID token to match those two things.
And these can be done with over ninety nine percent accuracy,
That's what all the trials are saying.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And so you have to give your biometric data to Facebook.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
No, in simple terms, you're not handing over your data.
This is done externally by a third party, and you
don't hand over your data. So it just it will
basically verify an ID token. That doesn't mean you're handing
over your data.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Who how do that? How do they verify it? Then?
I mean they must have to know that it's yours.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, there will have to be a linking to this
and the same way that we do this with things
like real Me accounts for bank accounts. It's just the
issue with verification with something like real Me is that
that's not working on actually determining the difference between a
fifteen and a sixteen year old. So that's the key.
The key.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
What about because there are problems that well, it could
create problems for other people. Isn't this about parents knowing
what their kids are doing. If you don't want your
kid on social media, don't buy them a smartphone.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I think that is something that would commonly be said
by people who are not a parent of a thirteen
or fourteen year old.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
That is me, to be transparent, that is me.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
There we go this. You parents are not equipped to
face up to what is happening with big tech. It
is moving too fast. And we're not even talking about
the issues of deep fakes of AI companions. You know,
we are simply talking about the algorithmic feeding of content
at the.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Moment, but the actually owning the phone in the first place.
Explain to me why that is so hard that a
parent can't say to their kid n I mean, my
mom said no to me about so many things growing up.
I wasn't allout a cell phone. I mean, yeah, what's
so hard about saying no till you're sixteenth?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah? I think the other thing that legislation will do,
because it's a really it's a really good point. Why
not just say no? But but actually, parents are no
match for this. And if you're out on a limb
with your kid, which at the moment, because the societal
norms are so far the other way, those need to
shift dramatically.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So so parents and parents actually just need a harden
up and tough enough.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
This is not a parenting issue, Ryan, this is and
it is It is unfair to put this on to parents.
They cannot, they cannot be a match for these big
tech companies. And we while while we do need but
you can.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
If you don't have a phone, Okay, I mean, I
mean simple. They big tech can't get you without a smartphone.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
They can get you, and they can get you through
iPads and family computers and laptops. And what we're talking
about is a really comprehensive overhaul of our online safety
reforms for kids in New Zealand. We are shockingly behind
and so parents will have a role in this, but
actually we need change at a system level and we
need the government as a first step to set in
(05:24):
place some legislation. And Erica Stanford is an excellent person
to be leading.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Good She's the best person you could have on the job.
I reckon, Melinda, Hey, interesting stuff where you look forward
to having more debates like this and I'm sure in
the days and weeks and months ahead. Melinda McLain with
a social media parenting expert from the group Before sixteen.
For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live
to News Talks it Be from five am weekdays, or
(05:50):
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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