September 8, 2022 • 46 mins
Ahead of his debut solo album, Hideous Bastard, The xx's Oliver Sim talks to Stuart Stubbs about that record, the horror film he's made to go with it, and the secret of being in a band with friends you've known since you were 3 years old.
This episode is supported by Southbank Centre
Buy tickets for the Loraine James show on October 2
Buy tickets for Nick Cave and Sean O'Hagan on October 27
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When something is shouting at me to feel a certain way,
my automatic reaction will always be bullshit.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hello again, and welcome back to Midnight Chat, a podcast
of informal interviews with musicians we love, posted weekly at
midnight to suit these very unplanned conversations. This week's episode
is hosted by me Stuart Stubbs, the editor of Loud
and Quiet magazine, and tonight's guest on the podcast is
Oliver sim who I'm sure you know already is a
(00:32):
member of the British trio The XX, alongside his very
good and very long standing friends Jamie Smith aka Jamie
XX and Rommy madley Croft. He's known Ronny since he
was three years old. They went to nursery together. Oliver's
on the podcast, though, not to talk about a new
(00:52):
XX record, but about his debut solo album. It's called
Hideous Bastard Incredible Name, and it is out this Friday,
which is what that's the ninth of September. I spoke
to Oliver as you're here pretty much exactly two weeks ago.
We do get into a bit of XX Chat, though,
(01:13):
reminisce a bit about the old days, particularly about a
show that I once put on with a couple of friends.
Shout out to Ian and Sasha, but we mainly there's
a lot to talk about with Hideous Bastard. It comes
with a film which will be available on the streaming
service Movie Perhaps Now. It's kind of a horror film.
(01:33):
We talk a bit about horror films that's inspired this
record as well, a very personal record for Oliver. We
talk about a track called Hideous, which is the first
track on the album. It features Jimmy Somemerville and it's
a song in which Oliver openly talks about how he's
been living with HIV since he was seventeen years old.
(01:54):
So we get into that as well. I'm not gonna
say anymore than that because I've got one thing that
I've just quick like to plug. We don't do many
parties at Loud and Quiet anymore, but we are hosting
a special party with Village Underground. They're celebrating fifteen years
of their venue here in London, and we've got a
show on the nineteenth of September. There's a link in
(02:15):
the show notes to this episode that will get you
ten percent off tickets. Tickets are only thirteen pounds anyway.
We've got theon cross Playing, Donnad Thompson and Lunch Money Life,
all incredible artists doing different things with jazz and rock
and experimental music. All the information is in that link
in the show notes. Hopefully I'll see some of you
(02:37):
there right then, here is Oliver sim talking mainly about
his new album Hideous Bastard. I employ you to check
it out. It's an amazing record and it comes out
this Friday on the ninth of September. This episode of
Midnight Chats is supported by London South Bank Center, who
have so much coming up in that autumn season it's
(02:59):
hard to know where to start, but here are two
events that look particularly special. Lorraine James will be performing
live at the Queen Elizabeth Hall on October the second
with the London Contemporary Orchestra for My Money. Lorraine is
one of our best electronic musicians and if you haven't
seen her live yet, she is incredible even when she's
(03:21):
on her own, So this is going to be a
very special show where she will be performing an homage
to the New York composer Julius Eastman with the LCO
or perhaps an evening with Nick Cave is more up
your Street as part of London Literature Festival. Here be
in conversation at the south Bank Center on October the
twenty seventh with Sean O'Hagan, as the pair discussed their
(03:43):
new book Faith, Hope and Carnage. Tickets for both of
those events can be found at Southbankcentre dot co dot uk,
but I've also linked to both of them in the
show notes of this episode. As I say, there's plenty
more going on at the south Bank this autumn, including
Christine and the Queens, Janeweaver and a late nighter with
(04:04):
the excellent Snapped Ankles. Visit Southbank Center dot co dot
uk and thank you once again to them for supporting
this episode of Midnight Chats.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So today marks it is two weeks until the album
comes out, and it's come about really quickly. From like
feeling like it was ages away, it's now pretty much
here and I feel so conflicted because I'm like, I want,
(04:39):
I want it out. I want it out right now.
Also I don't want it out. It's like releasing records
just comes like there is like a faint air of sadness.
I like, right now that it's my option to play
it to people right and I have ownership, and like, realistically,
I can't change anything. It's like the vinyls are printed,
(04:59):
it's done, ready to go. Yeah, but in the back
of my head, I still kind of could change things.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Have you stopped listening to it for that reason? Because
I would stop listening to it at this point myself.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
It takes years to get to that point though. Like
the our first album with the XX had its tenth
Anniverse three a few years back, we had like a
playback and listening to it then was one of the
first time ten years later that I was like, I
(05:33):
wasn't critiquing it. I wasn't like, oh I've changed that.
I wouldn't do that, and I was able to like
switch off and actually listen to it. What do you
think of their record now? It's nice to listen to it.
It's I think we sound like babies. I think because
(05:54):
we were babies, we really were, And it's it's it's
fun to listen to it because I'm like, oh, I
wouldn't make that choice today. Oh, I like, I don't
understand that choice or where that went there in a
nice way, it's it's it is a time in our
(06:14):
lives that it's just like cemented and encapsulated, which is
really nice.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So two weeks till the new record, do you think
the anxiety is just going to ramp up until release day?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I'm keeping busy. I'm keeping really busy. I'm like, it's
it's different because normally, like I do have Ronny and
Jamie tellin on, but this is my record. I see
what there were so many feelings of just like naivety,
Like I've been doing this for quite a long time,
(06:47):
but like there is a naivety and just like an
unknown that's really nice to feel.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Again, do you mean just in the sense of like
not having Jamie and Rommy to there with doing it
yourself on your own like that that whole thing kind
of it just it reminds me of that first record
because it's like I we didn't know, we didn't know
how that it was going to be received, where it
(07:14):
was going to take us, and like I've definitely my
enthusiasm for the XX has only grown, but it changes
record from record of like, well, you know, you have
this other piece of work behind you to like support you,
and I don't have that. This is this is my
(07:34):
first record on my own and it's scary, but it's exciting.
It's it's I feel like I'm like reconnecting with like
teenage feelings, which is always nice to feel. Yeah, that's
quite nice, isn't I kind of I speak about this.
I tend to speak about this a lot on the
(07:55):
podcast as I go through my midlife crisis. I tend
to talk a lot with artists about kind of missing
that teenage kind of horrible but nice feeling of that
those teenage anxieties that you had, like you kind of
start to miss them when there's enough distance between them
(08:17):
happening and where you are now.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
The drama.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
The drama is like, yeah, I'm thinking about like I've
always had like a wild imagination, but like the drama,
especially around romance of like I could take the smallest
like morsel of like potential of romance that could feed
my imagination for like.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
A year, all just like months. Yeah, I missed that drama.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Have the other two given you any sort of tips
because they've obviously released solo albums and solo work.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Have they kind of been coaching you through this period
or have they just said, Oliver, you're on your own,
We've been there.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
No, they're there, and then that Jamie's just Jamie's too
like cool for school sometimes and he's just but he's
also invested, like he I made this record with it,
so he's like very invested. But I don't know, Like
Rommy's finishing her record at the moment, and we've been
(09:26):
kind of like coaching each other through it and like
the whole though she didn't work on this record, she's
like been by my side the whole time and like
playing each other what we've been doing, which has been great.
And like Rommie, I've known since I was three years old.
(09:46):
We've done like nursery, primary school, secondary school, sixth form.
We've had a career together there and I love her,
I support her, I celebrate her. But there is a
part of me that is just like pure sibling. When
she does well, there is nothing more like a greater
(10:07):
source of energy of just like so when we've been
like meeting actually playing me a song, I'm like, damn,
that's good.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Damn I've got to like I've got I've got to
go one better.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
One thing I love about the XX and you three
is how tight you still are, like you know, because
you have been doing this as you say, for a
while now. Just had the tenth anniversary of the of
the debut, and but you know, Jamie produced this album
with you. You work, you contribute to each other's solo
material and have done since you started doing bits and
pieces each and I think that's quite rare. You know,
(10:44):
maybe it just maybe it does come down to the
fact that you and Rommy, you know, I've known each
other since you were three, and that's like a bond
that is unbreakable in certain ways. But is there like
a secret, like I kind of see you as like
that This is how bands should This is the ideal situation.
You know, your your you make records when you want to,
(11:06):
you don't rush them, you but you you know, in
those periods it's obviously very intense and touring and all
of that sort of stuff, and that sort of thing
is normally what breaks bands up, even if they've got
really close friends. In some siblings can't you know, be
in bands with each other and it kind of ruins
their relationships. But you three seem to have this relationship
(11:28):
that is constantly getting stronger, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I wish I don't know what the secret is that
we've definitely had moment. I get why tour is the
one that breaks is the part that breaks people, because
it's it's the it's the being around each other when
it's not necessarily our choice, like it's it's we're just
(11:55):
constantly with each other, and it takes away that, you know,
I've decided to hang out with you. We are just
together twenty four to seven. But it's I don't know,
it's just never really those scales between like being friends
(12:16):
and colleagues have never like tilted the wrong way. I wish,
I wish I had tips and secrets, but it is
it is actually fairly easy for the most part. Like
I still love them and I still see them out
(12:39):
of toys, just to be friends, no music involved.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, yeah, I remember when Crystallized first came out and
I interviewed you were a four piece, then it was one.
I like to say it was your first interview. I've
been dining out on this ever since two thousand and nine,
but it was so exciting to watch your band kind
of grow and and kind of just then almost not overnight,
(13:08):
but I remember it just suddenly stepping up a notch
because we put on a show. I co hosted a
show that you guys played with Little Boots DJ. It
was in a basement, I'm sure I remember this, but
it was in like a weird part of town here
in London. It was in like ELL's Court under there's
(13:31):
a cafe over there and Troubadour, the.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Troubadoor Theoretical Girl. Yes we're playing, Yes I do. I
do remember very well that that show was the first
time we played Crystallized. We just we just wrote it
like that week that's trying it out.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
It was the first time I'd seen I saw you.
It was then and the first time I heard the
first time, very first time I saw he was me
and Sasha and I and who were putting on the
night we came watching the sound check, and I remember
the three of us clapped at the end of the
sound check, which I have since learned one does not do.
(14:15):
But we were like just like mesmerized by and we
were particularly mesmerized by like Jamie at his MPC going
and we are like wow, and and I remember that.
I'm really distinctly remember that night, and I remember that,
and it was at a time when when you know,
it was kind of bubbling up for you, and like
you were playing a lot of shows around town, I think,
(14:37):
and then maybe I saw you like a couple of
times since then, but I remember then all of a sudden,
I saw you at Prima Era Sound playing on like
the Amphitheater ray Band stage, which felt like maybe the
distance between those two shows is a much longer than
I then. I know that I am recalling, but it
was suddenly like, oh wow, like this is this is
(14:59):
a They're absolutely huge one. The Mercury and all that
sort of stuff. I mean, so much has happened since
then and now, and like I could sit here and
bombard you with a million questions about all that stuff.
But we should talk about the album because I've heard
the album. I've listened to it a lot. It's I
think it's brilliant. I've also watched the film. I saw
the film yesterday, so I've got some things to ask
(15:21):
you about that. But let's talk. Let's start. I guess
with Hideous, the track that essentially announced the album, extremely
personal track for you. It's I suppose what I wanted
to ask you about that was like, it's probably frightening
enough for you to be in this successful group and
(15:42):
be doing your first solo album and be doing that
is kind of a you know, a big thing in
and of itself. But for you to come out with
the track you did that openly talks about your HIV
status in the way that it does. I mean that
takes it to a whole new kind of level. My
two questions on it, really one is how did you
(16:05):
feel the day that was coming out? Can you take
me back to how you you knew that was going
to be sent out by the label and that was
going to be a story from like music, press and stuff.
How did you How did you feel?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I fell? So I was in can I was at
Camp Film Festival, and I was like busy doing a
day of press and I remember it was went out
at three and I was doing an interview from I
(16:40):
think like two thirty to three thirty, which was perfect, great,
which was perfect and minute. I wasn't like gleed to
my phone or anything. But it it was uncomfortable. It
was uncomfortable. And like I've had like moments of this
(17:02):
has been as a general thing, like been very liberating,
but it hasn't been you know, I've had very few. No,
I don't think I've had any moments that I just
like flipping a switch of Oh, I suddenly feel so
much lighter, I feel liberated, I feel free air and
(17:22):
everything like that has been slow burn. And you know
I've I've made I've made an album about fear and
shame and not to to liberate myself. You know it
sounds quite heavy on paper, but you know I've written
(17:44):
about these things not to beat myself up, but to
air them out. And when I when I first wrote Hideous,
it was such a fuck it moment of I was
at a point in my life life where I would
say most of the key people in my life knew
(18:05):
about my status, but some people didn't know. A lot
of people knew in a way of I told them
one time and then I'd put like a subliminal, like
invisible force field around it of like that's done. We've
talked about that. Now we don't talk about it again.
(18:25):
And me putting it in a song was quite a
drastic thing considering where I was in my life, because
it's much easier for me to be honest in songwriting
than it is in a conversation, because there is no
(18:49):
I don't have to be in the room when somebody
listens to this, I don't have to look at them
in the eye. There's no back and forth like Songwriting's
just a conversation with myself. And when I decided to
put my HIV status in the song, you know it's
it's at the end of the song, because that's the
moment where you know I'd pretty much written a song.
(19:09):
I was like, should I do this? Should I do this? Okay, fine, yeah,
put checking it at the end. Rad gonesty, Mike, scept
me free if it makes me Idio been living with
(19:31):
the Javy since seven c Namma idiom and I played
the song to Jamie and the second person I played
it to was my mom. And my mom my mom
(19:51):
knows me, she knows me, and she was like, this
is drastic, This is drastic, and how about some baby
steps first? How about you start having conversations And that's
just not what I wanted to do. And that's not
what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Were you like, well, Mom, put it in a song,
which I don't want to have the conversation.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, let me have the drama. I don't know, but
I did start having these conversations with my nearest and
dearest and they were super uncomfortable to begin with, but
I started to have Like each one I had, it
became a little less heavy, and I started working my
(20:34):
way out of my like inner circle. I started meeting
new people, collaborators and sharing the music with them, and
then I started making a film where I was playing
Hideous in front of loads of people I didn't know,
and like my way of dealing with my status or
(20:55):
just like things I felt ashamed of in general, is
just like control. I know exact actually who I've told them,
what I've told and it was just like a really
stressful way to be And each one of these conversations
was a bit of letting go of control. And then
(21:16):
before I knew, I was speaking to journalists, and by
the time I released Hideous, it didn't feel like a
Catholic guarded secret. Sure I didn't have control over it anymore.
It was kind of out in the world.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Helps the reaction to it being.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
It has been good, and it's been really good. I
have I've kind of avoided doing a deep dive, especially
into my messages on social media, not because I'm scared
of seeing anything negative, but more I think this is
(21:58):
like a really beautiful thing and I love it. But
you know, when you share something personal, it kind of
opens the door for somebody to share something personal back,
and I it makes me scared because I am not
necessarily equipped to deal. Like I'm a musician, I'm not
(22:22):
a trained healthcare professional and I don't want to pretend
to be one. But I love it, like meeting I've
played a few shows and meeting people outside of the
shows and has been amazing. But it does it does
(22:43):
make me. It can be overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, Jimmy Summervill is on the track. Yeah, how does
that come about? Is it true that you send him
a message? Just an un solicited message, like how do
you get how do you get to know Jimmy Summerville?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
So I you know, I talk about like being like
a new artist and things. Thankfully for the XX, like
a few doors are open and I was able to
get hold of like people's email addresses and phone numbers.
But I think like one thing that's been on my
(23:23):
agenda with this record was like I want to make
some friends. Yeah, I want to make some friends, Like
I love Ronny and I love Jamie, but being in
a band with my two best mates has given me
the perfect excuse, like excuse of I don't need to
talk to anybody?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yes, are you when you get when you're at a
party together? Do you just stick with them? Historically?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Would you?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Would you be like, I don't need to go over
to that side of the room because we're here and
that's the same. That's that's me at a wedding.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, no, that that's that's me. I'm I am My
friends make fun of me. Of Like, if I get
an invite to go somewhere, my first question would be
who's going to be then, of like making sure it's
people I know, because I don't want to be overwhelmed
by new people. But I was like, I need to
make some friends. Like Ronny and Jamie are fantastic, but
(24:17):
they can't be my only two people. And I want
to sit not only just like musical friends, but like
queer musicians, especially like older that I keep saying, I
will not use that word more experienced musicians. And Jimmy
(24:39):
was kind of like top of my list?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Were you a fat just a fan of his?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I was a fan of his. You know, he's just
a voice that's just always been around. And I think
for most people that they know that voice, and I
don't remember the first time I heard it, but then
like growing up and really getting to know and appreciate
(25:06):
everything he's done and everything he represents, not not not
just around HIV and AIDS, but for queer people and
even more just like people that just feel a bit
removed and feel a bit other I see. I've always
seen him as like a beacon, and my like reaching
(25:29):
out to him was nothing more than like a fanboy
of high mister Somerville. My name's Oliver, I'm in a band,
huge fan. I didn't, and he messaged back, and did.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
You say to him in that first message, I'd like
to work with you or you? Just just seeing if
he was going to respond?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I didn't. I didn't. I I had it in the
back of my head. Yeah I hadn't.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
You didn't say I'm in a band, but I need
some new friends.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I think that would have been too desperate, too desperate
be my mate?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Will you be my friend?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Will you be my project? Line?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Will you be my friend?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Maybe that's a good approach, Maybe I should take that
going forward, But no, I didn't. I didn't mention working together,
and I just wanted to get to know him.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And he was open to it.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
That's amazing, it's really open to it.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I mean, because that could have gone another way, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
But that's the thing I've realized is, like I've reached
out to quite a few people. For the most part,
people are up for hearing that you're a fan of
theirs and and are out for chatting, and you know,
that anxious voice might be like, don't do it and
(26:52):
stay at home, don't speak to anyone, but but people people,
Most of the people I reached out to one did.
But yeah, Jimmy. Jimmy became like a real pen pal
through lockdown for quite a few months before I was
able to like drive down to the seaside where he
lives and visit him and then start talking about working together.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
And You're like, can you be on my track? Did
I read a quote from you about Jimmy saying that
he taught you to not take yourself too seriously?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
He is He's quite a silly man, And that's maybe
not the best way of putting it. But it's a
common thread that I've noticed from my like getting reaching
out and Pempau relationships like Jimmy Elton ANNONI John Grant.
(27:55):
I think the common thread is just like a certain
type of sense of humor, which is.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I can imagine Jimmy. I don't know him at all,
I've never met him, but I can imagine him and
Elton John getting on quite well. Are they similar a similar?
They're the characters.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
They they similar in terms of like that sense of
humor and that also like they're both like massive fans
of stuff, which I think is really cool.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
And you definitely get that from Elton, don't you Like
he is he.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Is the most interested in like new music and what
is happening then the rest of my mates. I say that,
especially like even the ones in their twenties. And that's
what I want to be. Yeah, when I'm in my seventies,
I want that enthusiasm for like seeking out new music
(28:52):
and supporting it.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
So I watched Hideous the film yesterday. I got sent
a link to it. Well, it opened at Canned, isn't it.
So that's that's when you were. That was when the
track came out. You you were there for the for
the premiere.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I guess I was there.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
How how was caned?
Speaker 1 (29:13):
First of all, can is a place I never thought
I would be at professionally, so it was wild, but
it's it's a weird place.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, I've see I've heard this. I've heard that because
I've got I suppose, like a lot of people that
haven't been like myself, we've got this idea of can
which is like old Hollywood arriving on a speedboat, scarfs
and big sunglasses and being very glamorous, essentially like a
Monte Carlo vibe. Yeah, but it's not that.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
It's that it's kind of side by side with socks
and sandals. Okay, so like at two am, it's like
the wasted people are like socks and sandals and then
people in like full chu or right. But it's not
it's not just I suppose just the glamour. Everyone is
(30:11):
interested in films. It's like you're meeting people at like
parties at two am and they're like, oh, well, I'm
waking up at in like four hours time to go
into a screening at eight am, which I wasn't expecting.
I thought it was all going to be for sad.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, that sounds like it's more kind of engaged than
the music industry, and in a sense of my experience
in the music industry, like because you know, I guess
an equivalent, like you go to Glastonbury and most people
spend a lot of time almost bragging about how little
music you know what I mean, Like people go to
(30:52):
Glass to me and they just walk and say, oh, no, no,
I've not seen anything on the Pyramid stage today, or
oh I've hardly seen anything I've been over here, or
I've been talking discern So oras this sounds like the
opposite that, like we're here because we love film and
we want to go and that's why we're here, and
we'll do the party. Sure we're going to get wrecked,
but I do have to get up because I have
to go to that thing because I want to go
(31:13):
to that thing.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Definitely was a dedication that I wasn't expecting. I think
the thing, I mean, I don't know why that, Like
I think it's because of the glamour, the grammar. You know,
Custombury doesn't have that excuse. But it was wild and
(31:37):
like to play the film there, you know when I
talked when I talk about like things the lead up
to Hideous that the day before we released it, we
had premiered the film. I didn't know a single person
other than my people in that screening, and that was
(31:59):
kind of like her like the final it is out there.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
So hey, So when you're at the screen because I'm
quite fast, because I'd love to be in the film
world in a way. Yeah, the when you're at the screening,
is it one of those situations where you introduce the film?
Does the director introduce it? Is there a round of
applause at the end. There's a lot of questions here
(32:23):
on there. Do you have to sit? Do you sit
like in a prominent position where other people can see you?
What's the deal?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
So it is, so we did introduce the film, me,
the director and some of the cast, and mister Jimmy
x X him up on stage reluctantly, really reluctantly. I'd
drag him because he's in the film. And then you
(32:53):
sit down and I was I think were like five
rows from the front. And and the talking I find
hard because I just I find it, this is the
hard thing about even things like this of like over talking.
(33:17):
I find it such a bony killer. Sometimes when I
hear artists talking about their craft or talking about their process,
it's just so unattractive and I don't want to be
that person. But we introduced step and we got a
standing innovation for quite a few minutes, which was incredible,
(33:42):
but like attacked the core like britishness of me. Do
you know that feeling at your birthday party of just
like but it was more extreme and it's like do
you for yourself? Do you clap for the the people
(34:02):
that were part of it, or do you just do
one of those bounds? But and then we kind of
like scooted out and went to a party.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Did you were you okay with watching yourself up there?
Like what like seeing yourself on the screen because you know,
you're you're the star of it, You're you're in it.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
It is so I spent half the film in prosthetics,
under like three inches of prosthetics, and that was so
much fun to do. Like that's fulfilling all of my
like childhood dreams of like like I grew up watching
(34:45):
like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and I've always been a
big does look.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Buff the make Yeah, the prosthetics, I can see.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
That they were my Like that was like my reference point.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Sure, okay, yeah that makes sense because I was watching
yesday thinking what does this remind me? Of of and
that is what it reminds me.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Of the best, And like going to like the prosthetics studio,
and like being covered in I don't know what you'd
call it, having the molds taken. I loved every minute
of that and being able to wear that allowed me
to do so many things I wouldn't normally allow myself
(35:23):
to do. And playing like big parts, like killing lots
of people like I do in this film. Fantastic, so
much fun, the big the big brushstrokes of like villainous
fun things great, the more earnest moments. Not wearing prosthetics
so so much harder. But you're really good in it,
(35:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
And that that beginning section before before I don't already
want to spoil it. I don't want to say too
much to ruin it for people because it's going to
be shown on movie.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Isn't it.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
But the bit before the the mask bit when you're
in an interview chair, the black and white part, it's
so subtle, like and you when when you can't hear
hear what you're talking, you can as subtitles in there.
I am giving too much way here, but just your
(36:18):
mannerisms and there certain looks where I really felt for you.
And at that point, because that's the beginning of the film,
I didn't know what was going to have and it
takes a massive left turn, but at that point I
was like, wow, like it's it's brilliant, Like that part
of the acting I just thought was so good. And
there's one moment where you do a glance a very
(36:44):
Norman Baits look, which is amazing, Like had you acted before?
Like is this was this all like just let's just
try and act and see what happens?
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Or I did? I did?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Do you do a bit drama?
Speaker 1 (36:56):
No? No, I was not that kid. Okay, I was
not that kid, but I did like lessons and the
lead up to it. But it's it's this is just
like something I've really wanted to bring some like showmanship
to this. Yeah, Like I feel like I've made something
(37:20):
that is confessional and I have been honest, but I
don't want to present it in a like overly earnest
package like I have. I've always had a relationship with
like fantasy. Ye, that is what excites me, and I
(37:43):
think fantasy can be just as meaningful as anything that
like has documentary film, And that's why I love horror.
Horror taught me so much about the world and it's
and it's fun. I did like if I was to
pair this album though, I think there's like fans. I
(38:05):
brought fantasy into the music. But if I was to
pair it with a visual that was like raw and real,
that would have been so boring. It would have been
so boring. And I know the way that I digest things.
When something is shouting at me, to feel a certain
way like this is real, this is me at my
(38:28):
baresss and straight back, my automatic reaction will always be bullshit,
No it's not, why are you screaming at me? I
can work this out for myself. So I wanted. I
wanted to push myself to like have some showmanship to
make this fantastical. I don't think that would dilute and
(38:52):
dilute this for a listener or a viewer, And if anything,
I think there's more capacity to do it.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
What horror films are your favorites? You grew up watching horror,
like that's an old time passion for you. Yeah, what,
what's what your all time classic horror films?
Speaker 1 (39:11):
It's hard to pick.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Do you like the do you like the the gory
stuff or the kind of more psychological I.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Enjoy some of the gore I enjoy. The thing that
draws me to horror is like I'm on paper, it
doesn't make sense that I do, because I'm quite I've
always been quite fearful. I was quite scared kid, but
horror doesn't scare me necessarily. The thing that drew me
(39:42):
to horror was just like characters, right, and the scream
queens that the women like buffer the vampires later that
it's not really horror, or Sigourney Weaver and I talk
about this in the film, or Jamie Lee Curtis. They
were like the I'm in that. When I was a kid,
(40:03):
I was like, that's what I want to be because
they were they were feminine and they were beautiful, but
they were also like angry and they were the final girls.
I loved them, and I loved the monsters. I loved
the villains. I loved Patrick Bateman, I love Norman Bates,
Buffalo Bill because again, they were so much more exciting
(40:29):
and relatable to me. It's like, now there's like a
trend and cinema of making films about the origin stories
behind the villains, because it's fascinating, and it's like they're
not doing that for the action heroes or the Disney princes,
(40:51):
because the question of like, how did you get so
brave and charming and kind boring? Who the fuck cares?
It's just like, I want to know where you got
what fucked you are? I want to know how you
ended up so twisted. And those characters were the ones
(41:12):
that were being cast away for being hideous in some way.
And I think those characters that I mentioned all to
me had like a repressed quinness to them, especially Baits,
especially Baits.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Oh yeah, I remember the first time I saw Psycho
because I studied film at a level and then at
university and I watched it at a level and it's
still quite it's like Psycho and I would so I
would have been sixteen when I first watched it, and
I kind of just thought, well, this isn't going to
(41:50):
bother me in any way. It's like an old black
and white film. It's clearly less set, you know, like
you know, like growing up in the nineties. I was like, Wow,
this is all very fake, and I was pretty petrified, especially.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Of what context did you watch it in? Was it
like a sleepover is it.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Just watched it home on my own, so I think
that was it. I was like, suddenly I felt very
alone a bit where spoiler alert where he runs out
of you know that shot from the hallway on the
top of the stairs he runs out with the with
(42:29):
when you're just with a wig on the back of
it and you stabs the guy and you're.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Like horrifying, really really scary.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I think it's amazing. It's something so kind of I mean,
that's what obviously what I hitched cocks of a classic,
but something that classic can still have an impact like now,
Like I think if I watched it now as a
fifteen or sixteen year old, I'd probably still be just
as creeped out by the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
That's that is. I talk about horror not scaring me,
but that's one of the films that scares me. And
also it's it's again spoiler alert, but it's just so
open ended of you know, ending with that kind of
monologue of you know, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
And then he does the look and that's the look.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
There is something about that that you know, look of.
I just learned these words recently Louche and Rakish of
just like presenting yourself beautifully, but if you look closer,
the devil is behind the person's eyes. There is something
so attractive, There's something if I would just like describe
(43:44):
my type. That's so Do you.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Think you're gonna as it made you want to make
more films or act in more films?
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I would love two still have a like relationship with
film in terms of like whatever that might be of
Do you want some music, I'd love to be a
part of that. Do you need to like a villain,
a cameo, a monster, I'd love to be a part
(44:17):
of That's it just excites me so much, And I've
tried to lean into as much like film in how
I've like even just like put out this record in
terms of just like the merchandising of like the rollout
of film is so much more fun than music. But yeah,
(44:40):
I would love to I've definitely made a lot of
friends through this, but.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
That was top of your list of things to do
and get more friends, get more For previous episodes of
Midnight Chat, simply search your podcast app and don't forget
to follow or subscribe in order to receive new episodes.
Has that published every week at Midnight. For more information
on the music magazine that makes this series, visit Loud
(45:06):
and Quiet dot com.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Anyway, good night.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
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When something is shouting at me to feel a certain way,
my automatic reaction will always be bullshit.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hello again, and welcome back to Midnight Chat, a podcast
of informal interviews with musicians we love, posted weekly at
midnight to suit these very unplanned conversations. This week's episode
is hosted by me Stuart Stubbs, the editor of Loud
and Quiet magazine, and tonight's guest on the podcast is
Oliver sim who I'm sure you know already is a
(00:32):
member of the British trio The XX, alongside his very
good and very long standing friends Jamie Smith aka Jamie
XX and Rommy madley Croft. He's known Ronny since he
was three years old. They went to nursery together. Oliver's
on the podcast, though, not to talk about a new
(00:52):
XX record, but about his debut solo album. It's called
Hideous Bastard Incredible Name, and it is out this Friday,
which is what that's the ninth of September. I spoke
to Oliver as you're here pretty much exactly two weeks ago.
We do get into a bit of XX Chat, though,
(01:13):
reminisce a bit about the old days, particularly about a
show that I once put on with a couple of friends.
Shout out to Ian and Sasha, but we mainly there's
a lot to talk about with Hideous Bastard. It comes
with a film which will be available on the streaming
service Movie Perhaps Now. It's kind of a horror film.
(01:33):
We talk a bit about horror films that's inspired this
record as well, a very personal record for Oliver. We
talk about a track called Hideous, which is the first
track on the album. It features Jimmy Somemerville and it's
a song in which Oliver openly talks about how he's
been living with HIV since he was seventeen years old.
(01:54):
So we get into that as well. I'm not gonna
say anymore than that because I've got one thing that
I've just quick like to plug. We don't do many
parties at Loud and Quiet anymore, but we are hosting
a special party with Village Underground. They're celebrating fifteen years
of their venue here in London, and we've got a
show on the nineteenth of September. There's a link in
(02:15):
the show notes to this episode that will get you
ten percent off tickets. Tickets are only thirteen pounds anyway.
We've got theon cross Playing, Donnad Thompson and Lunch Money Life,
all incredible artists doing different things with jazz and rock
and experimental music. All the information is in that link
in the show notes. Hopefully I'll see some of you
(02:37):
there right then, here is Oliver sim talking mainly about
his new album Hideous Bastard. I employ you to check
it out. It's an amazing record and it comes out
this Friday on the ninth of September. This episode of
Midnight Chats is supported by London South Bank Center, who
have so much coming up in that autumn season it's
(02:59):
hard to know where to start, but here are two
events that look particularly special. Lorraine James will be performing
live at the Queen Elizabeth Hall on October the second
with the London Contemporary Orchestra for My Money. Lorraine is
one of our best electronic musicians and if you haven't
seen her live yet, she is incredible even when she's
(03:21):
on her own, So this is going to be a
very special show where she will be performing an homage
to the New York composer Julius Eastman with the LCO
or perhaps an evening with Nick Cave is more up
your Street as part of London Literature Festival. Here be
in conversation at the south Bank Center on October the
twenty seventh with Sean O'Hagan, as the pair discussed their
(03:43):
new book Faith, Hope and Carnage. Tickets for both of
those events can be found at Southbankcentre dot co dot uk,
but I've also linked to both of them in the
show notes of this episode. As I say, there's plenty
more going on at the south Bank this autumn, including
Christine and the Queens, Janeweaver and a late nighter with
(04:04):
the excellent Snapped Ankles. Visit Southbank Center dot co dot
uk and thank you once again to them for supporting
this episode of Midnight Chats.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So today marks it is two weeks until the album
comes out, and it's come about really quickly. From like
feeling like it was ages away, it's now pretty much
here and I feel so conflicted because I'm like, I want,
(04:39):
I want it out. I want it out right now.
Also I don't want it out. It's like releasing records
just comes like there is like a faint air of sadness.
I like, right now that it's my option to play
it to people right and I have ownership, and like, realistically,
I can't change anything. It's like the vinyls are printed,
(04:59):
it's done, ready to go. Yeah, but in the back
of my head, I still kind of could change things.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Have you stopped listening to it for that reason? Because
I would stop listening to it at this point myself.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
It takes years to get to that point though. Like
the our first album with the XX had its tenth
Anniverse three a few years back, we had like a
playback and listening to it then was one of the
first time ten years later that I was like, I
(05:33):
wasn't critiquing it. I wasn't like, oh I've changed that.
I wouldn't do that, and I was able to like
switch off and actually listen to it. What do you
think of their record now? It's nice to listen to it.
It's I think we sound like babies. I think because
(05:54):
we were babies, we really were, And it's it's it's
fun to listen to it because I'm like, oh, I
wouldn't make that choice today. Oh, I like, I don't
understand that choice or where that went there in a
nice way, it's it's it is a time in our
(06:14):
lives that it's just like cemented and encapsulated, which is
really nice.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So two weeks till the new record, do you think
the anxiety is just going to ramp up until release day?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I'm keeping busy. I'm keeping really busy. I'm like, it's
it's different because normally, like I do have Ronny and
Jamie tellin on, but this is my record. I see
what there were so many feelings of just like naivety,
Like I've been doing this for quite a long time,
(06:47):
but like there is a naivety and just like an
unknown that's really nice to feel.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Again, do you mean just in the sense of like
not having Jamie and Rommy to there with doing it
yourself on your own like that that whole thing kind
of it just it reminds me of that first record
because it's like I we didn't know, we didn't know
how that it was going to be received, where it
(07:14):
was going to take us, and like I've definitely my
enthusiasm for the XX has only grown, but it changes
record from record of like, well, you know, you have
this other piece of work behind you to like support you,
and I don't have that. This is this is my
(07:34):
first record on my own and it's scary, but it's exciting.
It's it's I feel like I'm like reconnecting with like
teenage feelings, which is always nice to feel. Yeah, that's
quite nice, isn't I kind of I speak about this.
I tend to speak about this a lot on the
(07:55):
podcast as I go through my midlife crisis. I tend
to talk a lot with artists about kind of missing
that teenage kind of horrible but nice feeling of that
those teenage anxieties that you had, like you kind of
start to miss them when there's enough distance between them
(08:17):
happening and where you are now.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
The drama.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
The drama is like, yeah, I'm thinking about like I've
always had like a wild imagination, but like the drama,
especially around romance of like I could take the smallest
like morsel of like potential of romance that could feed
my imagination for like.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
A year, all just like months. Yeah, I missed that drama.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Have the other two given you any sort of tips
because they've obviously released solo albums and solo work.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Have they kind of been coaching you through this period
or have they just said, Oliver, you're on your own,
We've been there.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
No, they're there, and then that Jamie's just Jamie's too
like cool for school sometimes and he's just but he's
also invested, like he I made this record with it,
so he's like very invested. But I don't know, Like
Rommy's finishing her record at the moment, and we've been
(09:26):
kind of like coaching each other through it and like
the whole though she didn't work on this record, she's
like been by my side the whole time and like
playing each other what we've been doing, which has been great.
And like Rommie, I've known since I was three years old.
(09:46):
We've done like nursery, primary school, secondary school, sixth form.
We've had a career together there and I love her,
I support her, I celebrate her. But there is a
part of me that is just like pure sibling. When
she does well, there is nothing more like a greater
(10:07):
source of energy of just like so when we've been
like meeting actually playing me a song, I'm like, damn,
that's good.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Damn I've got to like I've got I've got to
go one better.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
One thing I love about the XX and you three
is how tight you still are, like you know, because
you have been doing this as you say, for a
while now. Just had the tenth anniversary of the of
the debut, and but you know, Jamie produced this album
with you. You work, you contribute to each other's solo
material and have done since you started doing bits and
pieces each and I think that's quite rare. You know,
(10:44):
maybe it just maybe it does come down to the
fact that you and Rommy, you know, I've known each
other since you were three, and that's like a bond
that is unbreakable in certain ways. But is there like
a secret, like I kind of see you as like
that This is how bands should This is the ideal situation.
You know, your your you make records when you want to,
(11:06):
you don't rush them, you but you you know, in
those periods it's obviously very intense and touring and all
of that sort of stuff, and that sort of thing
is normally what breaks bands up, even if they've got
really close friends. In some siblings can't you know, be
in bands with each other and it kind of ruins
their relationships. But you three seem to have this relationship
(11:28):
that is constantly getting stronger, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I wish I don't know what the secret is that
we've definitely had moment. I get why tour is the
one that breaks is the part that breaks people, because
it's it's the it's the being around each other when
it's not necessarily our choice, like it's it's we're just
(11:55):
constantly with each other, and it takes away that, you know,
I've decided to hang out with you. We are just
together twenty four to seven. But it's I don't know,
it's just never really those scales between like being friends
(12:16):
and colleagues have never like tilted the wrong way. I wish,
I wish I had tips and secrets, but it is
it is actually fairly easy for the most part. Like
I still love them and I still see them out
(12:39):
of toys, just to be friends, no music involved.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, yeah, I remember when Crystallized first came out and
I interviewed you were a four piece, then it was one.
I like to say it was your first interview. I've
been dining out on this ever since two thousand and nine,
but it was so exciting to watch your band kind
of grow and and kind of just then almost not overnight,
(13:08):
but I remember it just suddenly stepping up a notch
because we put on a show. I co hosted a
show that you guys played with Little Boots DJ. It
was in a basement, I'm sure I remember this, but
it was in like a weird part of town here
in London. It was in like ELL's Court under there's
(13:31):
a cafe over there and Troubadour, the.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Troubadoor Theoretical Girl. Yes we're playing, Yes I do. I
do remember very well that that show was the first
time we played Crystallized. We just we just wrote it
like that week that's trying it out.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
It was the first time I'd seen I saw you.
It was then and the first time I heard the
first time, very first time I saw he was me
and Sasha and I and who were putting on the
night we came watching the sound check, and I remember
the three of us clapped at the end of the
sound check, which I have since learned one does not do.
(14:15):
But we were like just like mesmerized by and we
were particularly mesmerized by like Jamie at his MPC going
and we are like wow, and and I remember that.
I'm really distinctly remember that night, and I remember that,
and it was at a time when when you know,
it was kind of bubbling up for you, and like
you were playing a lot of shows around town, I think,
(14:37):
and then maybe I saw you like a couple of
times since then, but I remember then all of a sudden,
I saw you at Prima Era Sound playing on like
the Amphitheater ray Band stage, which felt like maybe the
distance between those two shows is a much longer than
I then. I know that I am recalling, but it
was suddenly like, oh wow, like this is this is
(14:59):
a They're absolutely huge one. The Mercury and all that
sort of stuff. I mean, so much has happened since
then and now, and like I could sit here and
bombard you with a million questions about all that stuff.
But we should talk about the album because I've heard
the album. I've listened to it a lot. It's I
think it's brilliant. I've also watched the film. I saw
the film yesterday, so I've got some things to ask
(15:21):
you about that. But let's talk. Let's start. I guess
with Hideous, the track that essentially announced the album, extremely
personal track for you. It's I suppose what I wanted
to ask you about that was like, it's probably frightening
enough for you to be in this successful group and
(15:42):
be doing your first solo album and be doing that
is kind of a you know, a big thing in
and of itself. But for you to come out with
the track you did that openly talks about your HIV
status in the way that it does. I mean that
takes it to a whole new kind of level. My
two questions on it, really one is how did you
(16:05):
feel the day that was coming out? Can you take
me back to how you you knew that was going
to be sent out by the label and that was
going to be a story from like music, press and stuff.
How did you How did you feel?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I fell? So I was in can I was at
Camp Film Festival, and I was like busy doing a
day of press and I remember it was went out
at three and I was doing an interview from I
(16:40):
think like two thirty to three thirty, which was perfect, great,
which was perfect and minute. I wasn't like gleed to
my phone or anything. But it it was uncomfortable. It
was uncomfortable. And like I've had like moments of this
(17:02):
has been as a general thing, like been very liberating,
but it hasn't been you know, I've had very few. No,
I don't think I've had any moments that I just
like flipping a switch of Oh, I suddenly feel so
much lighter, I feel liberated, I feel free air and
(17:22):
everything like that has been slow burn. And you know
I've I've made I've made an album about fear and
shame and not to to liberate myself. You know it
sounds quite heavy on paper, but you know I've written
(17:44):
about these things not to beat myself up, but to
air them out. And when I when I first wrote Hideous,
it was such a fuck it moment of I was
at a point in my life life where I would
say most of the key people in my life knew
(18:05):
about my status, but some people didn't know. A lot
of people knew in a way of I told them
one time and then I'd put like a subliminal, like
invisible force field around it of like that's done. We've
talked about that. Now we don't talk about it again.
(18:25):
And me putting it in a song was quite a
drastic thing considering where I was in my life, because
it's much easier for me to be honest in songwriting
than it is in a conversation, because there is no
(18:49):
I don't have to be in the room when somebody
listens to this, I don't have to look at them
in the eye. There's no back and forth like Songwriting's
just a conversation with myself. And when I decided to
put my HIV status in the song, you know it's
it's at the end of the song, because that's the
moment where you know I'd pretty much written a song.
(19:09):
I was like, should I do this? Should I do this? Okay, fine, yeah,
put checking it at the end. Rad gonesty, Mike, scept
me free if it makes me Idio been living with
(19:31):
the Javy since seven c Namma idiom and I played
the song to Jamie and the second person I played
it to was my mom. And my mom my mom
(19:51):
knows me, she knows me, and she was like, this
is drastic, This is drastic, and how about some baby
steps first? How about you start having conversations And that's
just not what I wanted to do. And that's not
what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Were you like, well, Mom, put it in a song,
which I don't want to have the conversation.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, let me have the drama. I don't know, but
I did start having these conversations with my nearest and
dearest and they were super uncomfortable to begin with, but
I started to have Like each one I had, it
became a little less heavy, and I started working my
(20:34):
way out of my like inner circle. I started meeting
new people, collaborators and sharing the music with them, and
then I started making a film where I was playing
Hideous in front of loads of people I didn't know,
and like my way of dealing with my status or
(20:55):
just like things I felt ashamed of in general, is
just like control. I know exact actually who I've told them,
what I've told and it was just like a really
stressful way to be And each one of these conversations
was a bit of letting go of control. And then
(21:16):
before I knew, I was speaking to journalists, and by
the time I released Hideous, it didn't feel like a
Catholic guarded secret. Sure I didn't have control over it anymore.
It was kind of out in the world.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Helps the reaction to it being.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
It has been good, and it's been really good. I
have I've kind of avoided doing a deep dive, especially
into my messages on social media, not because I'm scared
of seeing anything negative, but more I think this is
(21:58):
like a really beautiful thing and I love it. But
you know, when you share something personal, it kind of
opens the door for somebody to share something personal back,
and I it makes me scared because I am not
necessarily equipped to deal. Like I'm a musician, I'm not
(22:22):
a trained healthcare professional and I don't want to pretend
to be one. But I love it, like meeting I've
played a few shows and meeting people outside of the
shows and has been amazing. But it does it does
(22:43):
make me. It can be overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, Jimmy Summervill is on the track. Yeah, how does
that come about? Is it true that you send him
a message? Just an un solicited message, like how do
you get how do you get to know Jimmy Summerville?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
So I you know, I talk about like being like
a new artist and things. Thankfully for the XX, like
a few doors are open and I was able to
get hold of like people's email addresses and phone numbers.
But I think like one thing that's been on my
(23:23):
agenda with this record was like I want to make
some friends. Yeah, I want to make some friends, Like
I love Ronny and I love Jamie, but being in
a band with my two best mates has given me
the perfect excuse, like excuse of I don't need to
talk to anybody?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yes, are you when you get when you're at a
party together? Do you just stick with them? Historically?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Would you?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Would you be like, I don't need to go over
to that side of the room because we're here and
that's the same. That's that's me at a wedding.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, no, that that's that's me. I'm I am My
friends make fun of me. Of Like, if I get
an invite to go somewhere, my first question would be
who's going to be then, of like making sure it's
people I know, because I don't want to be overwhelmed
by new people. But I was like, I need to
make some friends. Like Ronny and Jamie are fantastic, but
(24:17):
they can't be my only two people. And I want
to sit not only just like musical friends, but like
queer musicians, especially like older that I keep saying, I
will not use that word more experienced musicians. And Jimmy
(24:39):
was kind of like top of my list?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Were you a fat just a fan of his?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I was a fan of his. You know, he's just
a voice that's just always been around. And I think
for most people that they know that voice, and I
don't remember the first time I heard it, but then
like growing up and really getting to know and appreciate
(25:06):
everything he's done and everything he represents, not not not
just around HIV and AIDS, but for queer people and
even more just like people that just feel a bit
removed and feel a bit other I see. I've always
seen him as like a beacon, and my like reaching
(25:29):
out to him was nothing more than like a fanboy
of high mister Somerville. My name's Oliver, I'm in a band,
huge fan. I didn't, and he messaged back, and did.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
You say to him in that first message, I'd like
to work with you or you? Just just seeing if
he was going to respond?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I didn't. I didn't. I I had it in the
back of my head. Yeah I hadn't.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
You didn't say I'm in a band, but I need
some new friends.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I think that would have been too desperate, too desperate
be my mate?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Will you be my friend?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Will you be my project? Line?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Will you be my friend?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Maybe that's a good approach, Maybe I should take that
going forward, But no, I didn't. I didn't mention working together,
and I just wanted to get to know him.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And he was open to it.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
That's amazing, it's really open to it.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I mean, because that could have gone another way, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
But that's the thing I've realized is, like I've reached
out to quite a few people. For the most part,
people are up for hearing that you're a fan of
theirs and and are out for chatting, and you know,
that anxious voice might be like, don't do it and
(26:52):
stay at home, don't speak to anyone, but but people people,
Most of the people I reached out to one did.
But yeah, Jimmy. Jimmy became like a real pen pal
through lockdown for quite a few months before I was
able to like drive down to the seaside where he
lives and visit him and then start talking about working together.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
And You're like, can you be on my track? Did
I read a quote from you about Jimmy saying that
he taught you to not take yourself too seriously?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
He is He's quite a silly man, And that's maybe
not the best way of putting it. But it's a
common thread that I've noticed from my like getting reaching
out and Pempau relationships like Jimmy Elton ANNONI John Grant.
(27:55):
I think the common thread is just like a certain
type of sense of humor, which is.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I can imagine Jimmy. I don't know him at all,
I've never met him, but I can imagine him and
Elton John getting on quite well. Are they similar a similar?
They're the characters.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
They they similar in terms of like that sense of
humor and that also like they're both like massive fans
of stuff, which I think is really cool.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
And you definitely get that from Elton, don't you Like
he is he.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Is the most interested in like new music and what
is happening then the rest of my mates. I say that,
especially like even the ones in their twenties. And that's
what I want to be. Yeah, when I'm in my seventies,
I want that enthusiasm for like seeking out new music
(28:52):
and supporting it.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
So I watched Hideous the film yesterday. I got sent
a link to it. Well, it opened at Canned, isn't it.
So that's that's when you were. That was when the
track came out. You you were there for the for
the premiere.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I guess I was there.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
How how was caned?
Speaker 1 (29:13):
First of all, can is a place I never thought
I would be at professionally, so it was wild, but
it's it's a weird place.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, I've see I've heard this. I've heard that because
I've got I suppose, like a lot of people that
haven't been like myself, we've got this idea of can
which is like old Hollywood arriving on a speedboat, scarfs
and big sunglasses and being very glamorous, essentially like a
Monte Carlo vibe. Yeah, but it's not that.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
It's that it's kind of side by side with socks
and sandals. Okay, so like at two am, it's like
the wasted people are like socks and sandals and then
people in like full chu or right. But it's not
it's not just I suppose just the glamour. Everyone is
(30:11):
interested in films. It's like you're meeting people at like
parties at two am and they're like, oh, well, I'm
waking up at in like four hours time to go
into a screening at eight am, which I wasn't expecting.
I thought it was all going to be for sad.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, that sounds like it's more kind of engaged than
the music industry, and in a sense of my experience
in the music industry, like because you know, I guess
an equivalent, like you go to Glastonbury and most people
spend a lot of time almost bragging about how little
music you know what I mean, Like people go to
(30:52):
Glass to me and they just walk and say, oh, no, no,
I've not seen anything on the Pyramid stage today, or
oh I've hardly seen anything I've been over here, or
I've been talking discern So oras this sounds like the
opposite that, like we're here because we love film and
we want to go and that's why we're here, and
we'll do the party. Sure we're going to get wrecked,
but I do have to get up because I have
to go to that thing because I want to go
(31:13):
to that thing.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Definitely was a dedication that I wasn't expecting. I think
the thing, I mean, I don't know why that, Like
I think it's because of the glamour, the grammar. You know,
Custombury doesn't have that excuse. But it was wild and
(31:37):
like to play the film there, you know when I
talked when I talk about like things the lead up
to Hideous that the day before we released it, we
had premiered the film. I didn't know a single person
other than my people in that screening, and that was
(31:59):
kind of like her like the final it is out there.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
So hey, So when you're at the screen because I'm
quite fast, because I'd love to be in the film
world in a way. Yeah, the when you're at the screening,
is it one of those situations where you introduce the film?
Does the director introduce it? Is there a round of
applause at the end. There's a lot of questions here
(32:23):
on there. Do you have to sit? Do you sit
like in a prominent position where other people can see you?
What's the deal?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
So it is, so we did introduce the film, me,
the director and some of the cast, and mister Jimmy
x X him up on stage reluctantly, really reluctantly. I'd
drag him because he's in the film. And then you
(32:53):
sit down and I was I think were like five
rows from the front. And and the talking I find
hard because I just I find it, this is the
hard thing about even things like this of like over talking.
(33:17):
I find it such a bony killer. Sometimes when I
hear artists talking about their craft or talking about their process,
it's just so unattractive and I don't want to be
that person. But we introduced step and we got a
standing innovation for quite a few minutes, which was incredible,
(33:42):
but like attacked the core like britishness of me. Do
you know that feeling at your birthday party of just
like but it was more extreme and it's like do
you for yourself? Do you clap for the the people
(34:02):
that were part of it, or do you just do
one of those bounds? But and then we kind of
like scooted out and went to a party.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Did you were you okay with watching yourself up there?
Like what like seeing yourself on the screen because you know,
you're you're the star of it, You're you're in it.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
It is so I spent half the film in prosthetics,
under like three inches of prosthetics, and that was so
much fun to do. Like that's fulfilling all of my
like childhood dreams of like like I grew up watching
(34:45):
like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and I've always been a
big does look.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Buff the make Yeah, the prosthetics, I can see.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
That they were my Like that was like my reference point.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Sure, okay, yeah that makes sense because I was watching
yesday thinking what does this remind me? Of of and
that is what it reminds me.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Of the best, And like going to like the prosthetics studio,
and like being covered in I don't know what you'd
call it, having the molds taken. I loved every minute
of that and being able to wear that allowed me
to do so many things I wouldn't normally allow myself
(35:23):
to do. And playing like big parts, like killing lots
of people like I do in this film. Fantastic, so
much fun, the big the big brushstrokes of like villainous
fun things great, the more earnest moments. Not wearing prosthetics
so so much harder. But you're really good in it,
(35:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
And that that beginning section before before I don't already
want to spoil it. I don't want to say too
much to ruin it for people because it's going to
be shown on movie.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Isn't it.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
But the bit before the the mask bit when you're
in an interview chair, the black and white part, it's
so subtle, like and you when when you can't hear
hear what you're talking, you can as subtitles in there.
I am giving too much way here, but just your
(36:18):
mannerisms and there certain looks where I really felt for you.
And at that point, because that's the beginning of the film,
I didn't know what was going to have and it
takes a massive left turn, but at that point I
was like, wow, like it's it's brilliant, Like that part
of the acting I just thought was so good. And
there's one moment where you do a glance a very
(36:44):
Norman Baits look, which is amazing, Like had you acted before?
Like is this was this all like just let's just
try and act and see what happens?
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Or I did? I did?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Do you do a bit drama?
Speaker 1 (36:56):
No? No, I was not that kid. Okay, I was
not that kid, but I did like lessons and the
lead up to it. But it's it's this is just
like something I've really wanted to bring some like showmanship
to this. Yeah, Like I feel like I've made something
(37:20):
that is confessional and I have been honest, but I
don't want to present it in a like overly earnest
package like I have. I've always had a relationship with
like fantasy. Ye, that is what excites me, and I
(37:43):
think fantasy can be just as meaningful as anything that
like has documentary film, And that's why I love horror.
Horror taught me so much about the world and it's
and it's fun. I did like if I was to
pair this album though, I think there's like fans. I
(38:05):
brought fantasy into the music. But if I was to
pair it with a visual that was like raw and real,
that would have been so boring. It would have been
so boring. And I know the way that I digest things.
When something is shouting at me, to feel a certain
way like this is real, this is me at my
(38:28):
baresss and straight back, my automatic reaction will always be bullshit,
No it's not, why are you screaming at me? I
can work this out for myself. So I wanted. I
wanted to push myself to like have some showmanship to
make this fantastical. I don't think that would dilute and
(38:52):
dilute this for a listener or a viewer, And if anything,
I think there's more capacity to do it.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
What horror films are your favorites? You grew up watching horror,
like that's an old time passion for you. Yeah, what,
what's what your all time classic horror films?
Speaker 1 (39:11):
It's hard to pick.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Do you like the do you like the the gory
stuff or the kind of more psychological I.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Enjoy some of the gore I enjoy. The thing that
draws me to horror is like I'm on paper, it
doesn't make sense that I do, because I'm quite I've
always been quite fearful. I was quite scared kid, but
horror doesn't scare me necessarily. The thing that drew me
(39:42):
to horror was just like characters, right, and the scream
queens that the women like buffer the vampires later that
it's not really horror, or Sigourney Weaver and I talk
about this in the film, or Jamie Lee Curtis. They
were like the I'm in that. When I was a kid,
(40:03):
I was like, that's what I want to be because
they were they were feminine and they were beautiful, but
they were also like angry and they were the final girls.
I loved them, and I loved the monsters. I loved
the villains. I loved Patrick Bateman, I love Norman Bates,
Buffalo Bill because again, they were so much more exciting
(40:29):
and relatable to me. It's like, now there's like a
trend and cinema of making films about the origin stories
behind the villains, because it's fascinating, and it's like they're
not doing that for the action heroes or the Disney princes,
(40:51):
because the question of like, how did you get so
brave and charming and kind boring? Who the fuck cares?
It's just like, I want to know where you got
what fucked you are? I want to know how you
ended up so twisted. And those characters were the ones
(41:12):
that were being cast away for being hideous in some way.
And I think those characters that I mentioned all to
me had like a repressed quinness to them, especially Baits,
especially Baits.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Oh yeah, I remember the first time I saw Psycho
because I studied film at a level and then at
university and I watched it at a level and it's
still quite it's like Psycho and I would so I
would have been sixteen when I first watched it, and
I kind of just thought, well, this isn't going to
(41:50):
bother me in any way. It's like an old black
and white film. It's clearly less set, you know, like
you know, like growing up in the nineties. I was like, Wow,
this is all very fake, and I was pretty petrified, especially.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Of what context did you watch it in? Was it
like a sleepover is it.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Just watched it home on my own, so I think
that was it. I was like, suddenly I felt very
alone a bit where spoiler alert where he runs out
of you know that shot from the hallway on the
top of the stairs he runs out with the with
(42:29):
when you're just with a wig on the back of
it and you stabs the guy and you're.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Like horrifying, really really scary.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I think it's amazing. It's something so kind of I mean,
that's what obviously what I hitched cocks of a classic,
but something that classic can still have an impact like now,
Like I think if I watched it now as a
fifteen or sixteen year old, I'd probably still be just
as creeped out by the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
That's that is. I talk about horror not scaring me,
but that's one of the films that scares me. And
also it's it's again spoiler alert, but it's just so
open ended of you know, ending with that kind of
monologue of you know, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
And then he does the look and that's the look.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
There is something about that that you know, look of.
I just learned these words recently Louche and Rakish of
just like presenting yourself beautifully, but if you look closer,
the devil is behind the person's eyes. There is something
so attractive, There's something if I would just like describe
(43:44):
my type. That's so Do you.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Think you're gonna as it made you want to make
more films or act in more films?
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I would love two still have a like relationship with
film in terms of like whatever that might be of
Do you want some music, I'd love to be a
part of that. Do you need to like a villain,
a cameo, a monster, I'd love to be a part
(44:17):
of That's it just excites me so much, And I've
tried to lean into as much like film in how
I've like even just like put out this record in
terms of just like the merchandising of like the rollout
of film is so much more fun than music. But yeah,
(44:40):
I would love to I've definitely made a lot of
friends through this, but.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
That was top of your list of things to do
and get more friends, get more For previous episodes of
Midnight Chat, simply search your podcast app and don't forget
to follow or subscribe in order to receive new episodes.
Has that published every week at Midnight. For more information
on the music magazine that makes this series, visit Loud
(45:06):
and Quiet dot com.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Anyway, good night.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
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(45:36):
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