May 15, 2023 • 37 mins
Tim Mahoney's quest to discover @PatternsOfEvidence that confirms the Bible continues with his Journey to Mount Sinai. In this interview, he discusses strange rock formations that could be the split rock where God caused water to come from when Moses hit the rock, strange rock carvings and even getting his film taken by Saudi police. Tim's 20-year saga of exploration is coming to a conclusion but he's only just beginning...
https://www.patternsofevidence.com/
Originally recorded as a Charisma News Interview View Here
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim Mahoney (00:00):
And I think that when God calls us to do certain
(00:02):
things, we don't always knowhow, you know, it looks pretty
dangerous, you know, for megoing to Saudi Arabia, right
after 911 You know, in certainplaces, it was very, very scary.
And you wonder, Lord, did youbring me out in the wilderness
to die because, you know, theyactually threatened to kill us,
you know, times, you know,
John Matarazzo (00:24):
welcome to along the way, I'm drawn matter as
your host and fellow traveler,thank you for joining me along
my way as I try to become morelike Jesus every day. The goal
of along the way is to identifythe moments in life that Jesus
really is walking with us andtrying to get our attention. But
just like the disciples alongthe way to amaze us, we are
missing those moments that ourhearts are burning within us. I
(00:46):
want us to be able to identifythose moments, learn from others
and apply those lessons to ourlives so that we don't miss the
blessings that God has for usalong the way in our life
journey. Along the way, hasprovided some great connections
for me, one of my favorites isTim Mahoney, the filmmaker of
the series, patterns ofevidence. I'll get to our
(01:09):
conversation in just a moment.
But as always, I want to thankyou for listening to a longer
way, I hope that you like whatyou hear and that you subscribe,
please rate and review along theway on Apple podcasts or
wherever you're listening. Allof my contact information is in
the show notes. And you cancheck out all of my episodes,
and please join my email listthrough my website along the way
dot media, I would love to hearfrom you. Also, I have a Patreon
(01:31):
page if you'd like to help me tocontinue to put out these along
the way episodes. If you'd liketo become a patreon supporter,
simply go to patreon.com/alongthe way and select the level,
the link to become a supporteris also in my show notes. And
now here's my interview with TimMahoney about his film The
journey to Mount Sinai.
(01:58):
Tim Mahoney it's great to haveyou here to talk about your
latest installment of thepatterns of evidence films. This
one is the journey to Sinai parttwo, because the previous
version of the previousinstallment we covered three of
the six possible places whereMount Sinai actually is. And now
(02:19):
we're covering the remainingthree which are actually further
away from Egypt. And so I'mreally excited to talk about
this because I love archaeology,I love the whole patterns of
evidence that you've beensearching for, for this has been
a 20 year journey for you. Andso it's it's great to hear that
some of this is coming tofruition, it's coming to some
(02:40):
completion. And we're gettingsome some answers, which is
really, really cool. So I'm gladto be able to talk with you
again about this.
Tim Mahoney (02:47):
Well, thank you, John. And as always, I'm always
glad to talk with you. And thisis going to be an exciting
program per day, because there'san awful lot that I think people
are going to be interested in.
It's things are coming togetherat this time in history, that
and people say, Well, why whyare we finding more evidence for
this? And I think it's to wakepeople up, there's a lot of
people that are, well, there's alot of practical people out
(03:10):
there, in a sense, they theymight have wrote, you know, grew
up in, in, you know, hearingabout the Bible, or their
parents or Christians orwhatever. And they just don't
know if any of this is true, youknow, and I think that these
films are really important,because we're starting to show
that God is you know, there's apattern of evidence that guy's
acting in history, and history,as many people say, you know,
(03:33):
repeats itself. We know that thestory of the Exodus is the story
of God delivering and calling uppeople and delivering them to
himself. And he brings them tothis mountain, through a
miraculous Sea crossing and allthese different things. And I've
covered that in these earlyfilms. I've covered the promise
from Abraham, through, you know,with the first film and the
(03:54):
excess film, and then the nextfilm I wasn't even planning on
which was the most controversy.
And and that was, well, peoplesaid, Moses didn't write the
Bible, there's been so muchcriticism about the Bible. And
what we show is that Mosesactually had the ability to
write the Bible, excuse me. Andalso that there there was
(04:15):
actually this early form ofwriting, which is, which turns
out to be somebody took Egyptianhieroglyphs and modify them into
what we now call the alphabet,an Egyptian symbol it's yeah, go
like that. This was the bull'shead. And eventually it becomes
the letter a you know, and andso it's amazing. And this
(04:35):
alphabet shows up right wherethe Israelites are and it
migrates. And that's,
John Matarazzo (04:40):
that's one of the things that is so
interesting about your films isthat you have not just come to
this with thinking, I'm going toprove what I already believe.
You've really come to this wholeexperience as a student trying
to find a really as an explorertrying to find the truth
wherever it leads you and you'relooking for this is what the
(05:02):
Bible says, Where do we see thishappening? The even though
people might say it's happeningin a different time, or at a
different location, but where dowe see these things happening.
And I'll never forget the firsttime that I came across the
patterns of evidence, theExodus, which was your first
film, that I got to know, Iliterally saw it on a Facebook
(05:24):
ad. And I was just blown away bywhat I saw. And I immediately
purchased a digital copy of itso that I could watch it. And
then then that group, I reachedout because I wanted to do an
interview, and we've becomefriends. And this has been a
really cool thing that we'vetalked about. The the next film
was the Moses controversy, whichis what you were just talking
(05:46):
about here, and how if God isgoing to have a covenant with
the people of Israel, that he'scalling his chosen people, it's
important that they know theWord of God. And before this
alphabet that you were justtalking about, people really
just had to rely on the thewords of the leaders to see what
(06:07):
God was saying. But if if you'reable to write down something and
communicate it, then you canshare that to generations and
generations. And the fact thatyou, you've met people, and
you've been able to see some ofthese things in in your own
life. That is really, it'sreally proof that God cares
about people, not just ingetting things rolling and
(06:28):
starting this process, but hereally wants to have a
relationship with us. So yeah,that's I love these films, and
then you go into the Red Seacrossing, and there's so much
for that, that you had to dobreak that up into two films as
well. And now we're going toMount Sinai, part one and part
two. So wow, this is this isreally great stuff. And so yeah,
(06:49):
absolutely. This
Tim Mahoney (06:50):
next film, I mean, you you have some imagery of it.
But next next film is going tobe in theaters, May 15. And 17th
is a nationwide Fathom event.
And I think this is we've heardfrom people who've seen the
film. And we've you know, whenwe make these films, we're
making them sometimes till thelast minute when they have to go
to the theater, so but thepeople have seen the earlier
(07:10):
version of it. So they thinkit's possibly one of the best
that we've ever made. This filmis powerful. It's going to
you're going to learn stuff thatyou never knew before. You and
it's going to be an experience,I think that it's so important
to see these films in thetheater because, in fact, when I
watch a film that I've made,from, you know, the edit suite
(07:32):
into the theater, I never haveseen the film like that before,
because there's so much moredetail in it. And the experience
is immersive. And where you cometo see this film may 15, as a
Fathom event, it's going to beamazing, and people can get
tickets at patterns ofevidence.com. And they they'll
see every you know informationabout that they can see a
(07:53):
trailer. They can download thescorecard, you know, and this
scorecard is literally ascorecard. We've
John Matarazzo (08:00):
got it. Let's talk about that. What is the
purpose of this scorecard? Well,these
Tim Mahoney (08:04):
films are such that, that there's a lot of
detail in them. And with everyfilm that we make, we create a
pattern. And this particularfilm has a pattern, which is we
basically are looking at sixdifferent mountains. So the
pattern starts with journey tothe mountain. There are
campsites and wildernesses thatwe're trying to map out what
(08:26):
direction from from Egypt fromwhere they would have left, what
direction did they go? And whatwere the campsites because it
said they traveled certaindistances, so many days, and it
took them between people say,between 50 and 60 days to get
there. So or, you know, 45 to 60days, depending upon how some
(08:48):
people have interpreted this.
But this scorecard has a lot ofinformation that will help
prepare you for the film, whichis really fun. If you want to if
you want to go on aninvestigation, then you get the
scorecard, you prep, you canlook at the verses we're going
to look at well, where's theland of Midian? For example, all
right, you know, Midian, iswhere Moses fled. And depending
upon where Moses fled, it wasn'tfar from there, he went to the
(09:11):
backside of the wilderness thatwhere he encountered the burning
bush, where God speaks to him,and tell him to go back to Egypt
and to, you know, tell Pharaohto let the people go with to
come and worship Him. And thiswas a part of, of the promise to
Abraham that God had had givenAbraham, several occasions, this
(09:33):
vision that through his seed,that God was going to create a
people that would be his people,they would be holy people, they
would be he would be their God.
And he was going to bring themin bring them to a land that was
promised Abraham, and that wouldbe the promised land which today
is is the area of Israel. And sothese this back understanding
(09:59):
this back backstory I think isalso relevant for what's
happening in the world. BecauseIsrael, the Bible tells us in
the last days, the whole world'sattention is going to be on it.
Right, right. And we need to payattention to understand a lot
more why things are happening,and what we should how we should
respond to those things that arehappening. So, so yeah, the land
(10:20):
of Midian is where this mountainwould be. And this mountain is
was considered. I mean, the Lordsaid, this was a holy mountain.
And Moses had to take his shoesoff when he got to the burning
bush. And not only that, whenthe Israelites came, they
weren't allowed to go there. Soyes, this this image here is
we've we're looking at sixdifferent potential holy
(10:43):
mountain sites that people haveproposed. We've got the
traditional view of, of in theSinai Peninsula, then we've got
Jebel sin Bichette, or we've gotJebel Signia. And that's over
there in a mining area in theSinai. And then we move up a
little bit further to one in theSinai Peninsula right near the
(11:04):
Gulf of Accubond. Now it'scalled Hashem el tarif. Yeah,
which some believe is acrossroads that the Israelites
left from there. Another onethen is in this film is hardcore
coup, which is actually insidethe boundaries of Israel. As
I've looked at it, some peoplesay, well, it's not quite in the
boundary, it's, but that'sanother location. And then we're
(11:25):
gonna go to look at Jebel lawsand Djebel Hello, better. Jungle
mountain, by the way, in Arabic,that's why okay. So when someone
says jungle Signia, or junglelaws, general laws, they're
basically saying mountain. Okay.
And that makes sense. Yeah, itwas actually means almonds. It's
(11:47):
really called the almondmountain. Interesting. So 2003,
I actually had seen informationabout about people that were
getting photography out ofthere. And this Saina, the Saudi
Arabia mountain has been ofgreat interest to a lot of
(12:07):
people. It's caused a lot ofcontroversy. Right. Ron Wyatt
went there, got arrested, and hewent there twice and got
arrested twice for things. And,and then later on other people
like Bob Cornuke. And LarryWilliams, I think it was they
weren't there when they gotcaught. So there's a lot of
things that happened that causedit to have publicity, cause
(12:30):
things to become much moredifficult because archaeologist
couldn't go to the area and doany digging. Because the Bible
at that, you know, I'm not surewhere we're at now with that
type of thing with archaeologyin, in Saudi Arabia. But for a
long time, that's been an areathat's been off limits to
(12:50):
investigate that time period. Sowhen I would interview scholars,
they would, they would prettymuch tell me that. Yeah. So they
couldn't do any archaeologyconcerning the time period of
the Bible. Right.
John Matarazzo (13:03):
So it's, it's very interesting, because if you
know, geopolitically, in, youknow, just the religion of that
area is Islam. And so if all ofa sudden a Jewish holy site
happens to be in theirterritory, that's going to be
very, a lot of internationalattention, that would, you know,
(13:25):
we're trying to bring attentionto it to bring focus to the
Lord. But, you know, there couldbe a lot of difficult political
tensions arise because of thingslike this, if that would come
out. And all of a sudden, youhave a whole bunch of Jewish
archaeologist going to an Arabarea and doing doing that which,
(13:45):
which we're actually seeing alot of difficulty in Israel,
because some areas that they'redoing archaeological digs are in
Palestinian areas. And, youknow, there's there's a lot of,
there's a lot of politics goingback and forth whenever it comes
to archaeology, and this wouldbe even a more holy place. What
you're looking for, and it's inareas that are further away. And
(14:09):
so, yeah, there's, there's somereally interesting experiences
there. And I've heard, I'veheard a lot of these stories as
well. But I want to hear aboutyour stories, because you went
in 2003. And you follow the pathof the Exodus. And how long was
this trip that you got all thisfootage from? And you did so
(14:29):
much work? And what happened toto this footage? Where is it now
and how have you been able touse that?
Tim Mahoney (14:36):
Well, what happened was that in 2003, after hearing
about all these people who haveor could not go there, Dr. Glenn
Fritz found a connection and wewere actually able to go to the
area on a just an Arabian tour.
He gave the coordinates and wewere able to get permission from
a person who did these types oftours and worked with us.
(14:58):
Government of the Saudigovernment and it was a like to
allow Western people tounderstand the Arabian culture.
And so as a cultural tour that Iwas involved with, and this is
the same area, for example, thatT Lawrence, Lawrence of Arabia,
the movie, the British officerwhen he was in this area, so
there's a lot of history thatyou could and you and I loved
(15:22):
it. There's just an awful lotthat was there. But so we got
permission in 2003. In fact, itwas almost this exact time of
year, we actually may. And wewent there. And it was great to
begin with. But then once we gotinto that location with our, our
guides, our guides were Saudis,but they were from the eastern
(15:43):
part of Saudi Arabia. So on theeastern Saudis, they were
excited to go to the westernpart. They never been there
before. A lot of people have notbeen to this area. It's kind of
like the wild west of SaudiArabia. And when we got there,
things were fine for a littlebit. And we but when we came
into that particular area, backin 2003, setup camp. A couple
things interesting happened. Oneof them was that we we also had
(16:06):
Jim and Penny Caldwell. So itwas Dr. Leonard molar June Penny
Caldwell, myself, Dr. GlennFritz, we had a person who is
another plus US American who wasthe tour organizer, and then our
Saudis. And then I brought acouple other people along to
help. And so we decided to gofor a climb, it was like sunset.
(16:31):
And as Dr. Mohler was climbingup this hill, he physically got
like something struck him frombehind the weirdest thing. And
he stumbled, it was like he wasalmost like, it's like hit. And,
and later, we looked at it, andyou could see it was like a weld
that came across the back of hisleg like he was hamstrung. And,
(16:54):
you know, I'll be I'll tell you,I'm telling that story. Because
it was supernatural. It wasn'tnatural. I was like, he pulled a
hamstring or something, becauseof the way the, the Mark was on
his leg. And he felt that it wasa spiritual attack, because we
were going to climb and go andlook over this hill, to the area
(17:15):
where many people believed wasthe area where the Israelites
made the covenant with God. Sowe had a nice, you know, dinner
that night, we actually had ameal that was similar to a
Passover meal, someone hadbrought it a young, I think it
was wasn't a landline, but ayoung coach. But and then we had
the, I'm not sure if it was lambor Coke, by the way, but it was.
(17:39):
And then we had all the types offoods that you would have if
you're having a Passover meal,which is Penny Caldwell brought
that up. And as I'm thinkingabout these different
interesting coincidences, and sothere we are at the mountain,
the next day, we go, we getpermission to go into the area
that many people know of rightnow. It's they call it the
(18:00):
covenant site. And so we wereable to go into that area, walk
through what, there's this longL shaped Chevron shape, it's
kind of like, it kind of goeslike this, and then it goes. So
it goes like this, and it comesback like that. So it's a
corridor, and then it turns. Andwe went through that corridor.
(18:20):
There's two, six or eight footwide sections with a wall in the
middle. And then at the end ofit, there was a burning, LIKE
ASHES kind of area. So peoplelooked at that. And they said,
Is this an altar? Is this sometype of a cattle chute or an
altar? If they're gonna dosacrifices? Would this be the
(18:40):
place where it happened? Itlooks like there was a stream
bed there. And we actually, youcould see where the water had
washed out was looked veryinteresting. And previously,
when Ron Wyatt was there, hefound what appeared to be these
large circular or stone areasthat almost look like an area
(19:01):
where if you had dug down, itwould it would be a filtering
system for well, it's like awell. And there's several of
them. And he thought there waspossibly more. So in this new
film journey at Mount Sinai,part two, we're going to show
you a lot of stuff you might nothave seen, and we're going to
organize it in the way thatyou're really going to
(19:21):
understand. And the Jebel lawsis one of the mountains that we
look at. quite intensely. Therepillars here. So we're looking
at, as you know, in our films,John, we look at, well, what are
the what, what does the Biblesay, is what does the Scripture
say? And then can we find apattern in this at this
(19:43):
location? So that's where welooked at all the different
locations and said, Can we findan altar at home? Can we find it
all pillars at Harker comb? Canwe find you know, at the
different mountains that we'vebeen at? And some people find
one thing or two things and theygo, this is Mount Sinai, where
we have is I think there's like,I don't know, just like 20
(20:04):
things that we're looking at inthis list. And there's
geographical components,there's, there's artifacts,
there's attributes, there's thebackside of wilderness and its
definition, all those differentthings you would look for, that
just helped to articulate this,and we put it into a film that
took 20 years to put together.
(20:26):
So when I, when I came back, youknow, when I, when we got, after
we came down, we went there, welooked at that day, we climbed
the mountain, we got up to aplace where there's a marble
quarry, and then we worked ourway back down. And then when we
came down, that's when the localasylees told the Eastern Saudis
(20:48):
that they needed to get out ofthere. And the problem was, the
government said, we weresupposed to be here, and here
and here for so many days, we'resupposed to follow this route.
And every time we went to aplace that that we were supposed
to be at, we were then chased,you know, that area, so it was
(21:08):
really stressful. Sure. And, andit was very unusual, is very a
lot of tension there. And at theend of the day, I all my
footage, I mean, I filmedamazing content. So this film
was intended to be done 20 yearsago. And all my footage was was
taken. It was taken. Yeah. Iwould have taken more still
(21:32):
photos.
John Matarazzo (21:34):
Yeah, so so your your film was your footage was
taken. So the footage that we'regoing to see in this film,
patterns of evidence, journey toSinai, part one. And now part
two, where are you getting thisfilm from? Where are you getting
this footage from?
Tim Mahoney (21:49):
Well, early on Joe and Penny Caldwell, we worked
out that we would work withthem. So I have some of their
historical footage from the 90s.
And and then I captured otherfootage from other people who
now it's the doors have openedup in Saudi there allowing
people to have tours there, youcan actually go to this location
now. And there's a hugedevelopment there. They're
(22:12):
looking at creating, I thinkit's called Neo, it's, it's
going to be like, you know, thesuper, you know, futuristic
city. And at a ski resort, Ibelieve even at that mountain,
believe it or not, it gets coldenough for I think they can make
snow or something, but it'sgonna be a futuristic place to
(22:33):
go. And I think they're open tothis being a site for all people
to come because of, of Moses,and because of the interest and
and so that's how I've been ableto get the footage to make this.
And there are more significantthings to learn. You know, to in
(22:55):
this movie, one of the thingsthat I came away from was that
Moses tells Pharaoh that hewants to go in the wilderness so
they can worship the Lord. And Ithink that John what has
happened in my own life, on theIsraelites on this journey, they
were fearful. There's reasonsfor them to be fearful. But
(23:21):
they, you know, they werefearful of the Egyptian army,
right? They left Egypt. They sawall these plagues, but they were
spared, but still, they weretrying to escape. And then they
get trapped at the sea, and thenGod, like they're gonna kill
Moses at the sea. It's like, Whydid you bring us out in the
wilderness to die, you know,where they thought they're gonna
die. Moses wasn't sure eitherwhat was going to happen? And I
(23:41):
think when God calls us to docertain things, we don't always
know how, you know, it lookspretty dangerous, you know, for
me going to Saudi Arabia, rightafter 911. You know, in certain
places, it was very, very scary.
And you wonder, Lord, did youbring me out in the wilderness
to die? Because, you know, theyactually threatened to kill us,
(24:05):
you know, times, you know, Iwhen I was there, and, and you
just have to trust the Lord.
Okay. I believe I'm supposed tobe here. I am talking to my wife
about this. You know, she saysshe had to know, is this
something you really believe Godis calling you to do? Because I
need to know. Otherwise, I'll bereally angry if something
happens, you know, although, youknow, she could accept that if
it was truly the Lord. And sothis this investigation, I'm
(24:29):
trying to make sure I get backon target where I was, I was
going with this but I startedyou know, long time ago. And
just was was trying to figureout work, you know, the footage
is gone. How am I going to dothis? And sometimes we have
callings that God puts on ourlives and the calling is still
(24:50):
there. But the timing is notquite right. I have some people
I just saw Comments, someonesaid, hey, you know, this is
this, this is, you know, this isold news or whatever? Well, not
to everybody. This is a lot ofpeople don't know anything about
this. But there's a contextthat's never been told. And that
(25:11):
is the context of this, allthese different modes people are
pointing out, but what mountainshould we be looking at? You
know, can we find that out?
Because then there'll be moreinformation, which we know in
the next and films to come. ButI was talking about this issue
of praise, and worship, andfear. And I think that for me,
(25:38):
that even this last year, John,and I think for a lot of us for
the last several years, we'reseeing things like when when
COVID came and their lockdowns,people are fearful, their fear
of dying, their fear of economiccollapse, there's fear of, of
now, like, people going crazydoing stuff like, mobs, you
(25:58):
know, going into cities and justdestroying things. You know, I'm
from Minneapolis, we had a hugeright here. And it's like things
you never thought you would see.
In America. It was crazinessthat's going on. And the issue
of of God, and these Israelites,they left a culture where there
(26:19):
are many gods, and I'm doingmore studying about this. And we
see that they're going to gointo into the promised land
where there are foreign gods tothese, these gods, Moses tells
us in Deuteronomy, that when youworship an idol, you're
worshiping a demon. Yeah. So Imean, there's more than I've
(26:42):
been setting and learning andresearching, but we had demonic
activity. In Egypt, we have itin, you know, the Promised Land,
and it's not gone. And there'sall these, you know, the Bible
tells us there's principalitiesand powers, what we wrestle not
against flesh and blood butagainst powers and
principalities. Right? These arethere. And so one of the things
(27:05):
that happened to me justrecently is I was, I was coming
to the office, and I thought Iwould stop in our church as a
coffee house, coffee shop. And Istopped in there, and one of the
inner city pastors was sittingthere doing a Bible study by
himself, and he walked, walkedpast him. And he goes, Tim, he
(27:27):
says, How's it going, and I'm inthe middle of making this film
and all this other stuff. And Isaid, I don't even know where to
begin. And he looked at me, andI felt like the Holy Spirit was
speaking through. And he says,Tim, you need to worship the
Lord, the type of things thatyou're dealing with, you need to
spend more time and worship anddeeper time with the Lord and
(27:49):
Ico out, I hear that, I hearwhat you're saying, because I
need that. So I came home, Itold my wife this, and I said,
What do we do, and you know, I'ma musician. And I thought, you
know, I'm playing the guitar oranything. So we got some worship
books out from 30 years ago,that we had in this, you know,
(28:09):
90s, because we were a part ofthe Charismatic Renewal. And,
and we opened them up. And wesat in the living room, and I
just started singing thesesongs, worshiping God. And you
know, the fear started to go.
And I think that, I believe thatwe have so much power that is at
(28:36):
our disposal. And yet, like theIsraelites, you see, the
Israelites were afraid at thesea, they were afraid at the
mountain, and they're going tobe afraid, again, taking on the
promised land because of thegiants. And you know what, we're
all going to be facing the samething. So we've got giants right
now. Whatever they, however youwant to interpret them. And we
(29:02):
can be fearful. And I don't wantto live a life wandering in the
wilderness, because I'm afraidof the giants. So I believe the
message of this film, is we needto praise the Lord, for you
know, he's the one who's goingto help us take the promised
land. And if the Promised Landis someone's children, or the
(29:25):
Promised Land is, is some kindof other thing that you're, you
know, you're called to do. Themessage that I have at the end
of this film is coming to themountain to worship God is going
to give you that mission. Butthen I believe we need to
continue in praise because whenwe focus on Him, we're not
focusing on the problem. Ifwe're not, in a sense, sometimes
(29:49):
we can worship the problem, in asense by all of the time we
spend looking at it the news,for example, and the news is
just filled with all sorts ofthings that cause me to be
unsettled. But if I keep my eyeson the things that Lord wants me
to keep my eyes on, then I don'thave that anxiety.
John Matarazzo (30:06):
Yeah, so God's really helped you bring this
film together through a lot ofdifferent ways, even though your
your footage was takenoriginally, God has allowed you
to get different pieces,different ways. But you're still
telling this story of thepatterns of evidence, I find it
really interesting how you saidsomething about, you know,
searching for the mountains, youknow, which Mountain is you
(30:29):
know, the real Mount Sinai. AndI'm kind of reminded of Jesus's
conversation with the woman atthe well in John chapter four,
and how she says, you know, theJews say that we need to worship
at this mountain. And mySamaritan say we need to worship
at this place. Where do you whatdo you say, And Jesus says, you
know, the time is coming in isnow here, that those who
(30:52):
worship, it won't matter whereyou worship, but those who
worship will worship in spiritand in truth. And I think what
you're just talking about rightnow, Tim, and how you just went
home and just worship God andjust went back to that place of
worship and an intimacy withHim. It doesn't matter which
mountain you actually physicallygo to, but in the spirit you
(31:14):
need to connect with, with God,who is the god of the mountains,
the God who created themountains, it's important for us
to know, and to find thesepatterns of evidence, but the
evidence needs to point us backto the One who created the
evidence. And it's really, hisfingerprints are all over this.
And I love how you're continuingto search for these patterns of
(31:35):
evidence. And you told me justbefore we we started to record
this, that even though your 20year saga is coming to a close,
so to speak, but you're startinginto the conquest of Israel, of
the Promised Land, which you'retalking about these giants that
are, you know, fear, and thingsthat are going to keep us from
(31:57):
achieving that. And we don'twant to be caught in the
wilderness. Tim, this is this isgreat. And I love seeing this
side of you coming out becausethis this is I've known you as a
filmmaker, as somebody that'svery analytical, but I'm seeing
this amazing Spirit of God justpouring forth from you. And this
is, this is not just a messagethat is from your dark night of
(32:18):
the soul years ago, and you'researching for something, you
know, searching for the truthfor yourself. But now God is
using you to be a vessel toshare his message, which is
going to help us so many peopleget into the promised land that
God has for them. And so I'mlooking forward to being able to
see this on the big screenmyself. So yeah,
Tim Mahoney (32:40):
I think the experience, you know, there's
reasons why, you know, it'simportant for us to be in the
theater. Part of it is, is thatwe're in a culture, that that is
trying to keep messages andfilms up. But now look at the
chosen how well, that's becausethere's such a hunger, and then
(33:01):
his only Son that came out, Iwent and saw that and was like,
so blessed and just moved. Andwe need to be able to be in the
mainstream world. Journey. TheMount Sinai, part two is a
mainstream film, it's, it's,it's excellent. And I believe
you're going to experiencesomething. And that's why it's
so important to get the theater,we've got resources, get the
(33:22):
message out, I need everyone toget the message out. And to get
people to the theaters, we're inmajor theaters all across the
country for just two nights, May15 and may 17. And you can see
the trailer there. This is areally important film for you,
your family for your class, it'syou need to, you know, pay
(33:43):
attention to and I believethere's going to be I think
there's gonna be a specialexperience with at the end of
it, because I was trying tofigure out, I've had panel
discussions all the time. Youknow, after these films, you
know, a lot, it's just talk moreabout it what you've seen two
hours of talking anymoretalking, I've built the case
(34:06):
with, like 28 differentinterviews. Yeah, what I
believed is that we end the filmwith a call to worship. And I
actually sense that, you know, Idon't feel like I'm there to
entertain or anything, but I gotmy guitar. And I got a group of
people that were available. Andwe call him the praise, choir.
(34:33):
And we say, We will worship theLord with three worship songs.
And that's how we're closingthis film is just to be in
worship, and I'm going to betalking and in probably spending
more time in worship. I don'tknow what that looks like in the
future, but I feel that I'msupposed to do that. And so I,
(34:56):
you know, recently just went anddid the same thing. It doesn't
I'm just going to continue tolead. I used to write quite a
few songs. And that was a partof my earlier life. And now it's
coming back again. So I'm goingto, I'm going to blend that in,
because I believe there's powerthat we need to have Buy, buy
(35:19):
that worship. And I think thatit's also going to go before us,
you know, I think it was just itwas a Joseph had a he had, you
know, this armies coming intothem. And then they called upon
the Lord and they just went andworship the Lord. And the battle
is the Lord's right now, allthese battles are so huge. But
what do we need to do? Well, weneed to return away from the
(35:43):
despair and turn towards theworship, and then start giving
things to the Lord. And that'swhat we're missing, I believe.
And that's the call to what theend of this film has asked, you
know, bringing people to thinkabout is to come to that place.
John Matarazzo (35:58):
Amen. Amen. And so I would encourage everybody
to get to the theaters may 15,and may 17, you can go to
patterns of evidence.com, youcan see the website there, oops,
wrong one there, patterns ofevidence.com, to see where you
can go to get there, get yourtickets, get your scorecard and
follow along, Tim, with his withhis journey, as he's not telling
(36:22):
you what to believe it ishelping you to search for the
truth, to search for these basepatterns of evidence. And so,
Tim, I love how God called thechildren of Israel out of Egypt
to worship Him in the wildernessat this mountain. And God is
calling you to do that. And Godis calling us to worship Him in
(36:42):
a new way and in spirit and intruth, and he's calling us to do
that. So, Tim, I love how yourfilms, show evidence of God's
handiwork and show evidence ofhis workmanship, and how we are
created to be a part of hisworkmanship. And so, keep up the
good work, my friend. I'mlooking forward to seeing this
(37:03):
film on the big screen, and thenext ones as well. So God bless
you and I look forward to ournext time together.
Tim Mahoney (37:11):
Thank you, John.
God bless you, too.
John Matarazzo (37:13):
Thank you for listening to along the way. If
you've enjoyed joining me alongmy way, please share this with a
friend who you think will beencouraged by this podcast.
Also, please rate and reviewalong the way on iTunes. That
helps more people discover alongthe way and subscribe to this
podcast wherever you'relistening. You can follow me on
Facebook, Instagram and on mywebsite along the way dot media.
(37:35):
I hope that you've enjoyed thispart of my journey and may you
realize when Jesus is walkingwith you along your way
And I think that when God calls us to do certain
(00:02):
things, we don't always knowhow, you know, it looks pretty
dangerous, you know, for megoing to Saudi Arabia, right
after 911 You know, in certainplaces, it was very, very scary.
And you wonder, Lord, did youbring me out in the wilderness
to die because, you know, theyactually threatened to kill us,
you know, times, you know,
John Matarazzo (00:24):
welcome to along the way, I'm drawn matter as
your host and fellow traveler,thank you for joining me along
my way as I try to become morelike Jesus every day. The goal
of along the way is to identifythe moments in life that Jesus
really is walking with us andtrying to get our attention. But
just like the disciples alongthe way to amaze us, we are
missing those moments that ourhearts are burning within us. I
(00:46):
want us to be able to identifythose moments, learn from others
and apply those lessons to ourlives so that we don't miss the
blessings that God has for usalong the way in our life
journey. Along the way, hasprovided some great connections
for me, one of my favorites isTim Mahoney, the filmmaker of
the series, patterns ofevidence. I'll get to our
(01:09):
conversation in just a moment.
But as always, I want to thankyou for listening to a longer
way, I hope that you like whatyou hear and that you subscribe,
please rate and review along theway on Apple podcasts or
wherever you're listening. Allof my contact information is in
the show notes. And you cancheck out all of my episodes,
and please join my email listthrough my website along the way
dot media, I would love to hearfrom you. Also, I have a Patreon
(01:31):
page if you'd like to help me tocontinue to put out these along
the way episodes. If you'd liketo become a patreon supporter,
simply go to patreon.com/alongthe way and select the level,
the link to become a supporteris also in my show notes. And
now here's my interview with TimMahoney about his film The
journey to Mount Sinai.
(01:58):
Tim Mahoney it's great to haveyou here to talk about your
latest installment of thepatterns of evidence films. This
one is the journey to Sinai parttwo, because the previous
version of the previousinstallment we covered three of
the six possible places whereMount Sinai actually is. And now
(02:19):
we're covering the remainingthree which are actually further
away from Egypt. And so I'mreally excited to talk about
this because I love archaeology,I love the whole patterns of
evidence that you've beensearching for, for this has been
a 20 year journey for you. Andso it's it's great to hear that
some of this is coming tofruition, it's coming to some
(02:40):
completion. And we're gettingsome some answers, which is
really, really cool. So I'm gladto be able to talk with you
again about this.
Tim Mahoney (02:47):
Well, thank you, John. And as always, I'm always
glad to talk with you. And thisis going to be an exciting
program per day, because there'san awful lot that I think people
are going to be interested in.
It's things are coming togetherat this time in history, that
and people say, Well, why whyare we finding more evidence for
this? And I think it's to wakepeople up, there's a lot of
people that are, well, there's alot of practical people out
(03:10):
there, in a sense, they theymight have wrote, you know, grew
up in, in, you know, hearingabout the Bible, or their
parents or Christians orwhatever. And they just don't
know if any of this is true, youknow, and I think that these
films are really important,because we're starting to show
that God is you know, there's apattern of evidence that guy's
acting in history, and history,as many people say, you know,
(03:33):
repeats itself. We know that thestory of the Exodus is the story
of God delivering and calling uppeople and delivering them to
himself. And he brings them tothis mountain, through a
miraculous Sea crossing and allthese different things. And I've
covered that in these earlyfilms. I've covered the promise
from Abraham, through, you know,with the first film and the
(03:54):
excess film, and then the nextfilm I wasn't even planning on
which was the most controversy.
And and that was, well, peoplesaid, Moses didn't write the
Bible, there's been so muchcriticism about the Bible. And
what we show is that Mosesactually had the ability to
write the Bible, excuse me. Andalso that there there was
(04:15):
actually this early form ofwriting, which is, which turns
out to be somebody took Egyptianhieroglyphs and modify them into
what we now call the alphabet,an Egyptian symbol it's yeah, go
like that. This was the bull'shead. And eventually it becomes
the letter a you know, and andso it's amazing. And this
(04:35):
alphabet shows up right wherethe Israelites are and it
migrates. And that's,
John Matarazzo (04:40):
that's one of the things that is so
interesting about your films isthat you have not just come to
this with thinking, I'm going toprove what I already believe.
You've really come to this wholeexperience as a student trying
to find a really as an explorertrying to find the truth
wherever it leads you and you'relooking for this is what the
(05:02):
Bible says, Where do we see thishappening? The even though
people might say it's happeningin a different time, or at a
different location, but where dowe see these things happening.
And I'll never forget the firsttime that I came across the
patterns of evidence, theExodus, which was your first
film, that I got to know, Iliterally saw it on a Facebook
(05:24):
ad. And I was just blown away bywhat I saw. And I immediately
purchased a digital copy of itso that I could watch it. And
then then that group, I reachedout because I wanted to do an
interview, and we've becomefriends. And this has been a
really cool thing that we'vetalked about. The the next film
was the Moses controversy, whichis what you were just talking
(05:46):
about here, and how if God isgoing to have a covenant with
the people of Israel, that he'scalling his chosen people, it's
important that they know theWord of God. And before this
alphabet that you were justtalking about, people really
just had to rely on the thewords of the leaders to see what
(06:07):
God was saying. But if if you'reable to write down something and
communicate it, then you canshare that to generations and
generations. And the fact thatyou, you've met people, and
you've been able to see some ofthese things in in your own
life. That is really, it'sreally proof that God cares
about people, not just ingetting things rolling and
(06:28):
starting this process, but hereally wants to have a
relationship with us. So yeah,that's I love these films, and
then you go into the Red Seacrossing, and there's so much
for that, that you had to dobreak that up into two films as
well. And now we're going toMount Sinai, part one and part
two. So wow, this is this isreally great stuff. And so yeah,
(06:49):
absolutely. This
Tim Mahoney (06:50):
next film, I mean, you you have some imagery of it.
But next next film is going tobe in theaters, May 15. And 17th
is a nationwide Fathom event.
And I think this is we've heardfrom people who've seen the
film. And we've you know, whenwe make these films, we're
making them sometimes till thelast minute when they have to go
to the theater, so but thepeople have seen the earlier
(07:10):
version of it. So they thinkit's possibly one of the best
that we've ever made. This filmis powerful. It's going to
you're going to learn stuff thatyou never knew before. You and
it's going to be an experience,I think that it's so important
to see these films in thetheater because, in fact, when I
watch a film that I've made,from, you know, the edit suite
(07:32):
into the theater, I never haveseen the film like that before,
because there's so much moredetail in it. And the experience
is immersive. And where you cometo see this film may 15, as a
Fathom event, it's going to beamazing, and people can get
tickets at patterns ofevidence.com. And they they'll
see every you know informationabout that they can see a
(07:53):
trailer. They can download thescorecard, you know, and this
scorecard is literally ascorecard. We've
John Matarazzo (08:00):
got it. Let's talk about that. What is the
purpose of this scorecard? Well,these
Tim Mahoney (08:04):
films are such that, that there's a lot of
detail in them. And with everyfilm that we make, we create a
pattern. And this particularfilm has a pattern, which is we
basically are looking at sixdifferent mountains. So the
pattern starts with journey tothe mountain. There are
campsites and wildernesses thatwe're trying to map out what
(08:26):
direction from from Egypt fromwhere they would have left, what
direction did they go? And whatwere the campsites because it
said they traveled certaindistances, so many days, and it
took them between people say,between 50 and 60 days to get
there. So or, you know, 45 to 60days, depending upon how some
(08:48):
people have interpreted this.
But this scorecard has a lot ofinformation that will help
prepare you for the film, whichis really fun. If you want to if
you want to go on aninvestigation, then you get the
scorecard, you prep, you canlook at the verses we're going
to look at well, where's theland of Midian? For example, all
right, you know, Midian, iswhere Moses fled. And depending
upon where Moses fled, it wasn'tfar from there, he went to the
(09:11):
backside of the wilderness thatwhere he encountered the burning
bush, where God speaks to him,and tell him to go back to Egypt
and to, you know, tell Pharaohto let the people go with to
come and worship Him. And thiswas a part of, of the promise to
Abraham that God had had givenAbraham, several occasions, this
(09:33):
vision that through his seed,that God was going to create a
people that would be his people,they would be holy people, they
would be he would be their God.
And he was going to bring themin bring them to a land that was
promised Abraham, and that wouldbe the promised land which today
is is the area of Israel. And sothese this back understanding
(09:59):
this back backstory I think isalso relevant for what's
happening in the world. BecauseIsrael, the Bible tells us in
the last days, the whole world'sattention is going to be on it.
Right, right. And we need to payattention to understand a lot
more why things are happening,and what we should how we should
respond to those things that arehappening. So, so yeah, the land
(10:20):
of Midian is where this mountainwould be. And this mountain is
was considered. I mean, the Lordsaid, this was a holy mountain.
And Moses had to take his shoesoff when he got to the burning
bush. And not only that, whenthe Israelites came, they
weren't allowed to go there. Soyes, this this image here is
we've we're looking at sixdifferent potential holy
(10:43):
mountain sites that people haveproposed. We've got the
traditional view of, of in theSinai Peninsula, then we've got
Jebel sin Bichette, or we've gotJebel Signia. And that's over
there in a mining area in theSinai. And then we move up a
little bit further to one in theSinai Peninsula right near the
(11:04):
Gulf of Accubond. Now it'scalled Hashem el tarif. Yeah,
which some believe is acrossroads that the Israelites
left from there. Another onethen is in this film is hardcore
coup, which is actually insidethe boundaries of Israel. As
I've looked at it, some peoplesay, well, it's not quite in the
boundary, it's, but that'sanother location. And then we're
(11:25):
gonna go to look at Jebel lawsand Djebel Hello, better. Jungle
mountain, by the way, in Arabic,that's why okay. So when someone
says jungle Signia, or junglelaws, general laws, they're
basically saying mountain. Okay.
And that makes sense. Yeah, itwas actually means almonds. It's
(11:47):
really called the almondmountain. Interesting. So 2003,
I actually had seen informationabout about people that were
getting photography out ofthere. And this Saina, the Saudi
Arabia mountain has been ofgreat interest to a lot of
(12:07):
people. It's caused a lot ofcontroversy. Right. Ron Wyatt
went there, got arrested, and hewent there twice and got
arrested twice for things. And,and then later on other people
like Bob Cornuke. And LarryWilliams, I think it was they
weren't there when they gotcaught. So there's a lot of
things that happened that causedit to have publicity, cause
(12:30):
things to become much moredifficult because archaeologist
couldn't go to the area and doany digging. Because the Bible
at that, you know, I'm not surewhere we're at now with that
type of thing with archaeologyin, in Saudi Arabia. But for a
long time, that's been an areathat's been off limits to
(12:50):
investigate that time period. Sowhen I would interview scholars,
they would, they would prettymuch tell me that. Yeah. So they
couldn't do any archaeologyconcerning the time period of
the Bible. Right.
John Matarazzo (13:03):
So it's, it's very interesting, because if you
know, geopolitically, in, youknow, just the religion of that
area is Islam. And so if all ofa sudden a Jewish holy site
happens to be in theirterritory, that's going to be
very, a lot of internationalattention, that would, you know,
(13:25):
we're trying to bring attentionto it to bring focus to the
Lord. But, you know, there couldbe a lot of difficult political
tensions arise because of thingslike this, if that would come
out. And all of a sudden, youhave a whole bunch of Jewish
archaeologist going to an Arabarea and doing doing that which,
(13:45):
which we're actually seeing alot of difficulty in Israel,
because some areas that they'redoing archaeological digs are in
Palestinian areas. And, youknow, there's there's a lot of,
there's a lot of politics goingback and forth whenever it comes
to archaeology, and this wouldbe even a more holy place. What
you're looking for, and it's inareas that are further away. And
(14:09):
so, yeah, there's, there's somereally interesting experiences
there. And I've heard, I'veheard a lot of these stories as
well. But I want to hear aboutyour stories, because you went
in 2003. And you follow the pathof the Exodus. And how long was
this trip that you got all thisfootage from? And you did so
(14:29):
much work? And what happened toto this footage? Where is it now
and how have you been able touse that?
Tim Mahoney (14:36):
Well, what happened was that in 2003, after hearing
about all these people who haveor could not go there, Dr. Glenn
Fritz found a connection and wewere actually able to go to the
area on a just an Arabian tour.
He gave the coordinates and wewere able to get permission from
a person who did these types oftours and worked with us.
(14:58):
Government of the Saudigovernment and it was a like to
allow Western people tounderstand the Arabian culture.
And so as a cultural tour that Iwas involved with, and this is
the same area, for example, thatT Lawrence, Lawrence of Arabia,
the movie, the British officerwhen he was in this area, so
there's a lot of history thatyou could and you and I loved
(15:22):
it. There's just an awful lotthat was there. But so we got
permission in 2003. In fact, itwas almost this exact time of
year, we actually may. And wewent there. And it was great to
begin with. But then once we gotinto that location with our, our
guides, our guides were Saudis,but they were from the eastern
(15:43):
part of Saudi Arabia. So on theeastern Saudis, they were
excited to go to the westernpart. They never been there
before. A lot of people have notbeen to this area. It's kind of
like the wild west of SaudiArabia. And when we got there,
things were fine for a littlebit. And we but when we came
into that particular area, backin 2003, setup camp. A couple
things interesting happened. Oneof them was that we we also had
(16:06):
Jim and Penny Caldwell. So itwas Dr. Leonard molar June Penny
Caldwell, myself, Dr. GlennFritz, we had a person who is
another plus US American who wasthe tour organizer, and then our
Saudis. And then I brought acouple other people along to
help. And so we decided to gofor a climb, it was like sunset.
(16:31):
And as Dr. Mohler was climbingup this hill, he physically got
like something struck him frombehind the weirdest thing. And
he stumbled, it was like he wasalmost like, it's like hit. And,
and later, we looked at it, andyou could see it was like a weld
that came across the back of hisleg like he was hamstrung. And,
(16:54):
you know, I'll be I'll tell you,I'm telling that story. Because
it was supernatural. It wasn'tnatural. I was like, he pulled a
hamstring or something, becauseof the way the, the Mark was on
his leg. And he felt that it wasa spiritual attack, because we
were going to climb and go andlook over this hill, to the area
(17:15):
where many people believed wasthe area where the Israelites
made the covenant with God. Sowe had a nice, you know, dinner
that night, we actually had ameal that was similar to a
Passover meal, someone hadbrought it a young, I think it
was wasn't a landline, but ayoung coach. But and then we had
the, I'm not sure if it was lambor Coke, by the way, but it was.
(17:39):
And then we had all the types offoods that you would have if
you're having a Passover meal,which is Penny Caldwell brought
that up. And as I'm thinkingabout these different
interesting coincidences, and sothere we are at the mountain,
the next day, we go, we getpermission to go into the area
that many people know of rightnow. It's they call it the
(18:00):
covenant site. And so we wereable to go into that area, walk
through what, there's this longL shaped Chevron shape, it's
kind of like, it kind of goeslike this, and then it goes. So
it goes like this, and it comesback like that. So it's a
corridor, and then it turns. Andwe went through that corridor.
(18:20):
There's two, six or eight footwide sections with a wall in the
middle. And then at the end ofit, there was a burning, LIKE
ASHES kind of area. So peoplelooked at that. And they said,
Is this an altar? Is this sometype of a cattle chute or an
altar? If they're gonna dosacrifices? Would this be the
(18:40):
place where it happened? Itlooks like there was a stream
bed there. And we actually, youcould see where the water had
washed out was looked veryinteresting. And previously,
when Ron Wyatt was there, hefound what appeared to be these
large circular or stone areasthat almost look like an area
(19:01):
where if you had dug down, itwould it would be a filtering
system for well, it's like awell. And there's several of
them. And he thought there waspossibly more. So in this new
film journey at Mount Sinai,part two, we're going to show
you a lot of stuff you might nothave seen, and we're going to
organize it in the way thatyou're really going to
(19:21):
understand. And the Jebel lawsis one of the mountains that we
look at. quite intensely. Therepillars here. So we're looking
at, as you know, in our films,John, we look at, well, what are
the what, what does the Biblesay, is what does the Scripture
say? And then can we find apattern in this at this
(19:43):
location? So that's where welooked at all the different
locations and said, Can we findan altar at home? Can we find it
all pillars at Harker comb? Canwe find you know, at the
different mountains that we'vebeen at? And some people find
one thing or two things and theygo, this is Mount Sinai, where
we have is I think there's like,I don't know, just like 20
(20:04):
things that we're looking at inthis list. And there's
geographical components,there's, there's artifacts,
there's attributes, there's thebackside of wilderness and its
definition, all those differentthings you would look for, that
just helped to articulate this,and we put it into a film that
took 20 years to put together.
(20:26):
So when I, when I came back, youknow, when I, when we got, after
we came down, we went there, welooked at that day, we climbed
the mountain, we got up to aplace where there's a marble
quarry, and then we worked ourway back down. And then when we
came down, that's when the localasylees told the Eastern Saudis
(20:48):
that they needed to get out ofthere. And the problem was, the
government said, we weresupposed to be here, and here
and here for so many days, we'resupposed to follow this route.
And every time we went to aplace that that we were supposed
to be at, we were then chased,you know, that area, so it was
(21:08):
really stressful. Sure. And, andit was very unusual, is very a
lot of tension there. And at theend of the day, I all my
footage, I mean, I filmedamazing content. So this film
was intended to be done 20 yearsago. And all my footage was was
taken. It was taken. Yeah. Iwould have taken more still
(21:32):
photos.
John Matarazzo (21:34):
Yeah, so so your your film was your footage was
taken. So the footage that we'regoing to see in this film,
patterns of evidence, journey toSinai, part one. And now part
two, where are you getting thisfilm from? Where are you getting
this footage from?
Tim Mahoney (21:49):
Well, early on Joe and Penny Caldwell, we worked
out that we would work withthem. So I have some of their
historical footage from the 90s.
And and then I captured otherfootage from other people who
now it's the doors have openedup in Saudi there allowing
people to have tours there, youcan actually go to this location
now. And there's a hugedevelopment there. They're
(22:12):
looking at creating, I thinkit's called Neo, it's, it's
going to be like, you know, thesuper, you know, futuristic
city. And at a ski resort, Ibelieve even at that mountain,
believe it or not, it gets coldenough for I think they can make
snow or something, but it'sgonna be a futuristic place to
(22:33):
go. And I think they're open tothis being a site for all people
to come because of, of Moses,and because of the interest and
and so that's how I've been ableto get the footage to make this.
And there are more significantthings to learn. You know, to in
(22:55):
this movie, one of the thingsthat I came away from was that
Moses tells Pharaoh that hewants to go in the wilderness so
they can worship the Lord. And Ithink that John what has
happened in my own life, on theIsraelites on this journey, they
were fearful. There's reasonsfor them to be fearful. But
(23:21):
they, you know, they werefearful of the Egyptian army,
right? They left Egypt. They sawall these plagues, but they were
spared, but still, they weretrying to escape. And then they
get trapped at the sea, and thenGod, like they're gonna kill
Moses at the sea. It's like, Whydid you bring us out in the
wilderness to die, you know,where they thought they're gonna
die. Moses wasn't sure eitherwhat was going to happen? And I
(23:41):
think when God calls us to docertain things, we don't always
know how, you know, it lookspretty dangerous, you know, for
me going to Saudi Arabia, rightafter 911. You know, in certain
places, it was very, very scary.
And you wonder, Lord, did youbring me out in the wilderness
to die? Because, you know, theyactually threatened to kill us,
(24:05):
you know, times, you know, Iwhen I was there, and, and you
just have to trust the Lord.
Okay. I believe I'm supposed tobe here. I am talking to my wife
about this. You know, she saysshe had to know, is this
something you really believe Godis calling you to do? Because I
need to know. Otherwise, I'll bereally angry if something
happens, you know, although, youknow, she could accept that if
it was truly the Lord. And sothis this investigation, I'm
(24:29):
trying to make sure I get backon target where I was, I was
going with this but I startedyou know, long time ago. And
just was was trying to figureout work, you know, the footage
is gone. How am I going to dothis? And sometimes we have
callings that God puts on ourlives and the calling is still
(24:50):
there. But the timing is notquite right. I have some people
I just saw Comments, someonesaid, hey, you know, this is
this, this is, you know, this isold news or whatever? Well, not
to everybody. This is a lot ofpeople don't know anything about
this. But there's a contextthat's never been told. And that
(25:11):
is the context of this, allthese different modes people are
pointing out, but what mountainshould we be looking at? You
know, can we find that out?
Because then there'll be moreinformation, which we know in
the next and films to come. ButI was talking about this issue
of praise, and worship, andfear. And I think that for me,
(25:38):
that even this last year, John,and I think for a lot of us for
the last several years, we'reseeing things like when when
COVID came and their lockdowns,people are fearful, their fear
of dying, their fear of economiccollapse, there's fear of, of
now, like, people going crazydoing stuff like, mobs, you
(25:58):
know, going into cities and justdestroying things. You know, I'm
from Minneapolis, we had a hugeright here. And it's like things
you never thought you would see.
In America. It was crazinessthat's going on. And the issue
of of God, and these Israelites,they left a culture where there
(26:19):
are many gods, and I'm doingmore studying about this. And we
see that they're going to gointo into the promised land
where there are foreign gods tothese, these gods, Moses tells
us in Deuteronomy, that when youworship an idol, you're
worshiping a demon. Yeah. So Imean, there's more than I've
(26:42):
been setting and learning andresearching, but we had demonic
activity. In Egypt, we have itin, you know, the Promised Land,
and it's not gone. And there'sall these, you know, the Bible
tells us there's principalitiesand powers, what we wrestle not
against flesh and blood butagainst powers and
principalities. Right? These arethere. And so one of the things
(27:05):
that happened to me justrecently is I was, I was coming
to the office, and I thought Iwould stop in our church as a
coffee house, coffee shop. And Istopped in there, and one of the
inner city pastors was sittingthere doing a Bible study by
himself, and he walked, walkedpast him. And he goes, Tim, he
(27:27):
says, How's it going, and I'm inthe middle of making this film
and all this other stuff. And Isaid, I don't even know where to
begin. And he looked at me, andI felt like the Holy Spirit was
speaking through. And he says,Tim, you need to worship the
Lord, the type of things thatyou're dealing with, you need to
spend more time and worship anddeeper time with the Lord and
(27:49):
Ico out, I hear that, I hearwhat you're saying, because I
need that. So I came home, Itold my wife this, and I said,
What do we do, and you know, I'ma musician. And I thought, you
know, I'm playing the guitar oranything. So we got some worship
books out from 30 years ago,that we had in this, you know,
(28:09):
90s, because we were a part ofthe Charismatic Renewal. And,
and we opened them up. And wesat in the living room, and I
just started singing thesesongs, worshiping God. And you
know, the fear started to go.
And I think that, I believe thatwe have so much power that is at
(28:36):
our disposal. And yet, like theIsraelites, you see, the
Israelites were afraid at thesea, they were afraid at the
mountain, and they're going tobe afraid, again, taking on the
promised land because of thegiants. And you know what, we're
all going to be facing the samething. So we've got giants right
now. Whatever they, however youwant to interpret them. And we
(29:02):
can be fearful. And I don't wantto live a life wandering in the
wilderness, because I'm afraidof the giants. So I believe the
message of this film, is we needto praise the Lord, for you
know, he's the one who's goingto help us take the promised
land. And if the Promised Landis someone's children, or the
(29:25):
Promised Land is, is some kindof other thing that you're, you
know, you're called to do. Themessage that I have at the end
of this film is coming to themountain to worship God is going
to give you that mission. Butthen I believe we need to
continue in praise because whenwe focus on Him, we're not
focusing on the problem. Ifwe're not, in a sense, sometimes
(29:49):
we can worship the problem, in asense by all of the time we
spend looking at it the news,for example, and the news is
just filled with all sorts ofthings that cause me to be
unsettled. But if I keep my eyeson the things that Lord wants me
to keep my eyes on, then I don'thave that anxiety.
John Matarazzo (30:06):
Yeah, so God's really helped you bring this
film together through a lot ofdifferent ways, even though your
your footage was takenoriginally, God has allowed you
to get different pieces,different ways. But you're still
telling this story of thepatterns of evidence, I find it
really interesting how you saidsomething about, you know,
searching for the mountains, youknow, which Mountain is you
(30:29):
know, the real Mount Sinai. AndI'm kind of reminded of Jesus's
conversation with the woman atthe well in John chapter four,
and how she says, you know, theJews say that we need to worship
at this mountain. And mySamaritan say we need to worship
at this place. Where do you whatdo you say, And Jesus says, you
know, the time is coming in isnow here, that those who
(30:52):
worship, it won't matter whereyou worship, but those who
worship will worship in spiritand in truth. And I think what
you're just talking about rightnow, Tim, and how you just went
home and just worship God andjust went back to that place of
worship and an intimacy withHim. It doesn't matter which
mountain you actually physicallygo to, but in the spirit you
(31:14):
need to connect with, with God,who is the god of the mountains,
the God who created themountains, it's important for us
to know, and to find thesepatterns of evidence, but the
evidence needs to point us backto the One who created the
evidence. And it's really, hisfingerprints are all over this.
And I love how you're continuingto search for these patterns of
(31:35):
evidence. And you told me justbefore we we started to record
this, that even though your 20year saga is coming to a close,
so to speak, but you're startinginto the conquest of Israel, of
the Promised Land, which you'retalking about these giants that
are, you know, fear, and thingsthat are going to keep us from
(31:57):
achieving that. And we don'twant to be caught in the
wilderness. Tim, this is this isgreat. And I love seeing this
side of you coming out becausethis this is I've known you as a
filmmaker, as somebody that'svery analytical, but I'm seeing
this amazing Spirit of God justpouring forth from you. And this
is, this is not just a messagethat is from your dark night of
(32:18):
the soul years ago, and you'researching for something, you
know, searching for the truthfor yourself. But now God is
using you to be a vessel toshare his message, which is
going to help us so many peopleget into the promised land that
God has for them. And so I'mlooking forward to being able to
see this on the big screenmyself. So yeah,
Tim Mahoney (32:40):
I think the experience, you know, there's
reasons why, you know, it'simportant for us to be in the
theater. Part of it is, is thatwe're in a culture, that that is
trying to keep messages andfilms up. But now look at the
chosen how well, that's becausethere's such a hunger, and then
(33:01):
his only Son that came out, Iwent and saw that and was like,
so blessed and just moved. Andwe need to be able to be in the
mainstream world. Journey. TheMount Sinai, part two is a
mainstream film, it's, it's,it's excellent. And I believe
you're going to experiencesomething. And that's why it's
so important to get the theater,we've got resources, get the
(33:22):
message out, I need everyone toget the message out. And to get
people to the theaters, we're inmajor theaters all across the
country for just two nights, May15 and may 17. And you can see
the trailer there. This is areally important film for you,
your family for your class, it'syou need to, you know, pay
(33:43):
attention to and I believethere's going to be I think
there's gonna be a specialexperience with at the end of
it, because I was trying tofigure out, I've had panel
discussions all the time. Youknow, after these films, you
know, a lot, it's just talk moreabout it what you've seen two
hours of talking anymoretalking, I've built the case
(34:06):
with, like 28 differentinterviews. Yeah, what I
believed is that we end the filmwith a call to worship. And I
actually sense that, you know, Idon't feel like I'm there to
entertain or anything, but I gotmy guitar. And I got a group of
people that were available. Andwe call him the praise, choir.
(34:33):
And we say, We will worship theLord with three worship songs.
And that's how we're closingthis film is just to be in
worship, and I'm going to betalking and in probably spending
more time in worship. I don'tknow what that looks like in the
future, but I feel that I'msupposed to do that. And so I,
(34:56):
you know, recently just went anddid the same thing. It doesn't
I'm just going to continue tolead. I used to write quite a
few songs. And that was a partof my earlier life. And now it's
coming back again. So I'm goingto, I'm going to blend that in,
because I believe there's powerthat we need to have Buy, buy
(35:19):
that worship. And I think thatit's also going to go before us,
you know, I think it was just itwas a Joseph had a he had, you
know, this armies coming intothem. And then they called upon
the Lord and they just went andworship the Lord. And the battle
is the Lord's right now, allthese battles are so huge. But
what do we need to do? Well, weneed to return away from the
(35:43):
despair and turn towards theworship, and then start giving
things to the Lord. And that'swhat we're missing, I believe.
And that's the call to what theend of this film has asked, you
know, bringing people to thinkabout is to come to that place.
John Matarazzo (35:58):
Amen. Amen. And so I would encourage everybody
to get to the theaters may 15,and may 17, you can go to
patterns of evidence.com, youcan see the website there, oops,
wrong one there, patterns ofevidence.com, to see where you
can go to get there, get yourtickets, get your scorecard and
follow along, Tim, with his withhis journey, as he's not telling
(36:22):
you what to believe it ishelping you to search for the
truth, to search for these basepatterns of evidence. And so,
Tim, I love how God called thechildren of Israel out of Egypt
to worship Him in the wildernessat this mountain. And God is
calling you to do that. And Godis calling us to worship Him in
(36:42):
a new way and in spirit and intruth, and he's calling us to do
that. So, Tim, I love how yourfilms, show evidence of God's
handiwork and show evidence ofhis workmanship, and how we are
created to be a part of hisworkmanship. And so, keep up the
good work, my friend. I'mlooking forward to seeing this
(37:03):
film on the big screen, and thenext ones as well. So God bless
you and I look forward to ournext time together.
Tim Mahoney (37:11):
Thank you, John.
God bless you, too.
John Matarazzo (37:13):
Thank you for listening to along the way. If
you've enjoyed joining me alongmy way, please share this with a
friend who you think will beencouraged by this podcast.
Also, please rate and reviewalong the way on iTunes. That
helps more people discover alongthe way and subscribe to this
podcast wherever you'relistening. You can follow me on
Facebook, Instagram and on mywebsite along the way dot media.
(37:35):
I hope that you've enjoyed thispart of my journey and may you
realize when Jesus is walkingwith you along your way
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