“Spiritual Growth Through The Witness of James” - Robin T Jennings - AlongTheWay 120 - AlongTheWay

Episode Transcript
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Robin T Jennings (00:01):
I was going nonstop. I was full guns, full
time minister, big churchgrowth. And God literally put on
the brakes and said, you know,let's go, I'll help you drive.
I'll help you steer from now onbut you gotta let go some stuff,
you know, and it was just a realturnaround for me that I'll
never forget because he gave meback my children and my wife,

(00:22):
you could have the astral, but

John Matarazzo (00:25):
welcome to along the way I'm drawn matter as your
host and fellow traveler, thankyou for joining me along my way
as I've tried to become morelike Jesus every day. The goal
of along the way is to identifythe moments in life that Jesus
really is walking with us andtrying to get our attention. But
just like the disciples alongthe way to amaze us, we are
missing those moments that ourhearts are burning within us. I

(00:48):
want us to be able to identifythose moments, learn from others
and apply those lessons to ourlives so that we don't miss the
blessings that God has for usalong the way in our life
journey. We all desire to growspiritually as we walk with
Jesus and Robin T Jennings hisdesire to grow spiritually led
him to look to Jesus, his littlebrother James as an example. In

(01:12):
his book, a letter to the churchand the next generation, he
shares his guided reflectionsfrom his biblical study and
personal life, to help on ourjourney of spiritual growth.
Robin T Jennings has a deepcommitment to the Lord, a
heartfelt passion for truth, anda true love for the next
generation. I'll get to ourconversation in just a moment.

(01:34):
But as always, I want to thankyou for listening to along the
way, I hope that you like whatyou hear and that you subscribe,
please rate and review along theway on Apple podcasts or
wherever you're listening. Allof my contact information is in
the show notes. And you cancheck out all of my episodes,
and please join my email listthrough my website along the way
dot media, I would love to hearfrom you. Also, I have a Patreon

(01:58):
page if you'd like to help me tocontinue to put out these along
the way episodes. If you'd liketo become a patreon supporter,
simply go to patreon.com/alongthe way and select the level.
The link to become a supporteris also in my show notes. And
now here's my along the wayconversation with Robin T Genex.

(02:21):
Robin T Jennings, it is great tohave you on along the way. I'm
looking forward to hearing yourjourney with the Lord. Robin is
an Episcopal Minister priest andan author. And he recently wrote
a book called the letter to thechurch and the next generation
spiritual growth through thewitness of James and I'm looking

(02:41):
forward to talking about whatGod has shown you, Robin, about
the life of James and how itaffects our lives. Sure. So
Robin, thanks so much for beingon along the way.

Oh, I'm honored. John, this is a real
treat for me. Thank you.

So Robin is in Louisville, Kentucky. Did I say
that? Right.

Unknown (03:00):
You did you did?
Grenville from Pittsburgh, youdid a good job. Yeah. I

appreciate that.
Yeah. So you know, Robin, I wantto hear your story of how God
has brought you to where you aretoday. I want to hear about your
background, you know, family,basically, really? How did you
come to Christ? Like how did hebecome the leader of your life?
Oh, let's go.

Yeah, it goes back to a long, long time ago in
a place far far away orsomething like that. Yeah. And
it's it's, I don't want to saymore than a story. It's a
journey, in many respects apilgrimage, life long
relationship that began when Iwas a child. I mean, there was

(03:47):
no question about the reality ofGod in my life. All along, and
Episcopalian, which is I don'tknow, cut that not that common,
certainly in the EpiscopalChurch, and I don't know it with
respect to your audience whatthey will make of this, but it
was it was one of these churchgoing families. However, and I

(04:12):
put a comma there, I say all forbecause if the faith was there,
no question about it. But it wascovered by a prayer book, and
sort of the veneer of liturgy.
And I hesitate to say thatbecause I love the liturgy. I
love the worship, and I love theprayers in the prayer book. But
it did also, in a sense, keepyou not protected but covered in

(04:35):
a way that if someone said let'spray, you'd say what page? Where
are we? And so it was moreagain, a content oriented faith
at the beginning is not asopposed to but as compared to
experiential. I could go on andon in terms of my device over my

(04:58):
growth, but suffice it to saythe family, my parents, my dad,
in particular, have played a keyrole in my development faith. In
fact, when I actually feltcalled to go into the ministry,
he was all for it, andsupportive of that in a way that

(05:20):
I think took great pride inwhich not all parents will, you
know, some will, how much moneyyou're gonna get a good job.

Unknown (05:32):
That's kind of what you're getting into. Yeah, yeah.
Very,

very rarely as ministry do people get into it
for the money, you know, it's

always get a pet. The parents don't always
give you a pat on the back. Wejust college, what are you
doing? You know, like being apsychologist or something, you
know, what are you sure, youknow? But it was very great
support.

So you felt the call to ministry after going to
college? Well, that's

another story.
Yes. I actually, in high schoolgrowing up through high school,
I mean, yes, I was in church,and I was connected to a church
affiliated with and so on, andso forth, and did all the things
I was supposed to do in churchas a eighth grader and youth
group and those sorts of things.
But it wasn't inside as much.
And most of my outside life wasin sports, baseball, football,

(06:22):
basketball, you know, anythingwith a ball, you know? And so
that was that was me. And I'mnot saying superficial, but was
very external. Sure. It wasuntil I met my, my wife, who
then at that time in college wasmy girlfriend. I began to
experience what we would calllove. And that was something

(06:46):
brand new. And really, the wholeidea of really caring for
another person became a majorshift in my life. After
graduating from college, shestayed in Lexington, Kentucky, I
went up to back to Chicago,north of Chicago, where I was
from, worked in an Episcopalboy's home. And it was there the

(07:06):
boys, I had the seventh andeighth grade boys. They were
big, big young men, seventh andeighth graders that were
classified as emotionallydisturbed, but you want to say
who wouldn't be? I was thislittle white boy from the
suburbs. And on a sketch I therewas a fight every day with the

(07:27):
kids either amongst themselvesor with me. And I'm talking
fists, fortunately, wasn't gunsback in those days, you know,
but I mean, it was it was tough,tough time. I say all this
because I talked with achaplain, an Episcopal chaplain
was there. It was during thetimes of the Democratic
Convention in the 60s, MartinLuther King's assassination,

(07:52):
Vietnam, there was a lot goingon. And and I bring all this up
again, because Chicago was inunrest, much like Louisville,
much like a lot of cities today.
But the chaplain said to mesaid, you know, you're asking a
lot of good questions. I said,Yeah, kind of looking for

(08:12):
answers. And he said, Well, youwere seminary. And I said,
seminary, that was not on my, myto do list. And I thought
seminary that has to do withGod. Jesus, I mean, what are we
talking about? You know, so Itold this to my said to my
fiance, I said, What do youthink about seminary? She said,

(08:34):
Well, I thought, you know, maybewe go to church? Are you
serious? Yeah. Well, it's we'velooked into it and gotten into
it. And this is the kind of along story short, but it really
was the best thing we could havedone because our marriage was
built around seminary and aroundour faith. And that really made

(08:54):
a huge impact not only on ourlife and marriage, but then
again, pon the way in which Iexperienced further call,

wow, refresh my memory. What was it that you
said that you went to school fororiginally

graduate? Just a graduate

job? Psychology, but that was an example.

I was thinking, yeah, maybe I'd go
into psychology or social workor something, you know, but
there was seminary was notsomething I even was on the
radar.

Right? You graduated with a different
degree, and then join then wentto seminary,

Bachelor of Science, then I've got a
master's in divinity. ButGotcha. You know, I guess from
my perspective, nowadays, Idon't think I could have gotten
into seminary because nowadaysin the Episcopal Church, they're
these committees on top ofcommittees of discernment and
all of this kind of thing thatyou go through and all the hoops
that you have to jump over myday, you know, they asked me
about my prayer life, and Ialmost started crying like, What

(09:53):
are you talking about? You know,I mean, I was I hesitate to say
it like this job, but you know,I was very very naive, but I was
what we would call today aseeker. And, and they, they
really affirm that from thestandpoint at first saying I was
too young, I was too young. Weweren't even married yet. We
were just getting married and inJuly and went to seminary in

(10:15):
August, and they said, you know,why don't you wait? Why don't
you wait? Well, you don't tell ayoung person to wait. And, and
so we got the support. Andreally out of that began to
experience an understanding ofchurch community, you know, and
mentors, which is part of whatmy book is about, because this
book, a letter to the church,and the next generation, back in

(10:39):
those days, I was the newgeneration, John. Okay. And yet
I found good mentors, goodpeople to guide and direct.

Yeah, and that is so important to find those
mentors. I know, I have a lot inmy life. And it's not just I
have one person, that as mymentor, I have a bunch of
different people that I amchoosing to have them be mentors
in my life because of a specificarea that I feel that they're
strongest. Sure. And that's beendefinitely helpful for me. And

(11:09):
so tell me about your mentorshipexperience, and how that has
played an impact in your life.

It's, again, it's varied and goes sort of
with, I'm not going to say theterrain. But when I started out
in the ministry, and was whatthey call the rector, which is a
Latin word for ruler. John, youcan't see my smile, I can roll

(11:35):
or Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Inever thought of that good idea.
We'll take it to committee andall this. But But in all
seriousness, it meant that I wasthe leader of the church, you
know, the, the pastor, and I wasyoung, by then my early 30s, and
kids and all of that sort ofthing. So a lot was going on in

(11:56):
my life. Again, from an externalstandpoint, in internally, I
wasn't hollow, but I was I mean,I was playing the role, I was
doing a good job, quote,unquote. But at the same time, I
knew God was at work in May. Andoften I now say, before you can

(12:16):
do the work of God, God needs todo some work. And you, you know,
well, guess what? God was doingsome work. And man, I couldn't
figure it out. I just knew thatI was, I wasn't connecting. We
weren't relating. I was on my Iwas doing my thing. You know,
that sort of deal. I went off toa three year program and

(12:37):
spiritual guidance, it I didn'tgo off it was one that you could
do. It's wasn't really online.
But it was a corresponding kindof because it was before really
computers and all and emails,but But you could correspond and
we got it was in Washington, DC.
So we could go there, I thinkthree or four quart every other
quarter or something to meetwith people in small groups.

(12:59):
Long story short, it was aprogram in spiritual direction
really got me into differentformats and forms of prayer and
from Ignatian spirituality to,oh, I worked with the abbia 70,
which was close by Louisville,as in Thomas Merton, if you know
that name, you know. So therewas a diversity of spiritual

(13:22):
programs that were available,that really got me to understand
discernment, and beginning toget a good perspective on what
spiritual growth looks like. Tothe point that I came back and I
didn't hang my shingle, butpeople got this in my preaching,

(13:42):
and in my, my life, my teaching,and more and more people came to
me for spiritual direction,which is, I guess, one aspect of
being a mentor. And that wassort of early on. Now, here's
the next word of God smiling,you know, when you show him your
plants kind of thing. The churchgrew. And it grew, and the staff

(14:05):
grew. John, I became a wreck.
You know, I mean, I knew nothingabout administration. And,
actually, I did likeadministration, even though
literally again, in Latin meansto minister. But I didn't think
of it as minister. Anything butthat, you know, however, Ken
Callaghan, I don't know if youknow that name. He wrote a dozen

(14:27):
books on he was a churchconsultant. He came into my life
and became a real again mentorfor me. So that took me through
building programs and growth andexpansion and staff and all that
kind of stuff that I never wouldhave gotten through in a million
they don't didn't teach me inthat in seminary. You know, it's
not that kind of

so you said that you made mention earlier that
God was still working on you asas these things were still is
but so for you when did do youHe's just become really the
leader of your life.

Oh, I've the reason for the site is because
there were several differentexperiences or places, you know,
highs and lows and times that Icould point to i May I could
point to my, my marriage, mywedding, you know, and it was a
high. I mean, that's a goodthing. Yeah. And so, you know,
that was love. And I learned alot,

especially if she's listening. Yeah.

But it was that new understanding of agape
love, self giving love. Thatwas, I don't want to say mind
blowing, but it was a newlearning for me, a guy that just
played sports and wascompetitive and wanted to win.
You know, this is a differentform of of life. But speaking of
love and life, we had four kids.
And I'll never forget. We weregoing to pick one of the boys up

(15:51):
at camp in Wisconsin. Do youremember the Astro vans? Oh,
yeah, big, big. My dear wife hadan astro van. She said she felt
like she was delivering pizza,you know. But it was to take all
the kids around and the dog andall this stuff. You know, she
was, oh, I owe her still to thisday. But here I am driving this
Astro van up with three of thekids and my wife to pick up this

(16:14):
boy at that camp. And Wisconsinwas flat roads and it was
raining. And we hydroplane andI'll never forget that. That
experience of Yes. My hands wereon the wheel. But I did not have
the wheel. You know, it was inYes, we were sliding. And it was

(16:34):
a by the way four lane highway.
And okay. I just I said probablysomething I shouldn't have said
at the time. It wasn't a prayer.
But it was it was here we go.
And my you know, we went off theother side of the road flipped
over. And it was we all werefortunately okay. But we we

(17:01):
landed in a ditch that was asoft ditch with water. I mean,
the cushion the blow 100 feet upwas concrete and gravel. I mean,
it could have been a wholedifferent kind of crash thing.
Wow. passing us was a trucklogger with and he 30 seconds 15

(17:22):
seconds before could havecrashed into I mean, there were
a million things that went on inthat experience. What am I sons,
the window broken is His arm wasoutside the window. And when we
got out of the van, he said, Ican't get my arm out. I just
thought oh my god, he's lost hisarm. You know, I mean, it was
all those kinds of experiencesthat go with it. And we were
talking about your car crash andso I could talk about that. But

(17:46):
when I came away from it was thesense of God's saying to me,
okay. Are you with me? BecauseI'm with you, buddy. You know, I
was by the way I was type A, Iwas going non stop. I was full
guns, you know, full timeminister, big church growth. And

(18:08):
God literally put on the brakesand said, you know, let's go,
I'll help you drive. I'll helpyou steer from now on, but you
gotta let go of some of thisstuff. You know, and it was just
a real turnaround for me thatI'll never forget, because he
gave me back my children and mywife. And you know, he, you
could have the astral pan, but

Unknown (18:30):
it was total. Yeah.

So you said you you had your wife and your kids
back? Tell me a little bit aboutwhat that was like receiving
them back again. I mean, notthat they were gone a gift. But
it was, you know, it's somethingwhere you have a new lease on
life now. I mean, I know with mycar accident, like I just saw
God. Yes. It was like there wasan angel in there with me. Yeah,

(18:56):
like I should have been, Ishould have been severely
injured. But thank God, Iwasn't. But I have a new
appreciation for a lot ofdifferent things because of that
experience that I went through.
And it changed the way that Isee things. In some practical
ways, how did that change yourrelationship with your wife and
your kids? Because you said youwere a type A personality?
Driven, driven, driven? Yes. Howdifficult was it to pull back?

(19:20):
And to embrace the moment Iguess?

Well, I want to say several things. One is I
probably was exhausted andburnout and driving too fast. I
will confess to you, and I hopeyour listeners won't hold this
against me. But you know, therewere there were mistakes. Oh,
from a practical standpoint, thetires were bald. And yeah, good

(19:49):
job, Robin. You know, and so ifI didn't really think that much
about the treads of a tire, youknow, well guess what? Your
family's riding on those tires,you know? So, those kinds of
prac typical things had tobecome not just a quick fix, but
to really seriously thinkthrough day to day being
attentive, how about that, andbeing aware of not just the

(20:15):
fragile nature of life and thevulnerability of life, but but
to, again, provide for yourfamily in ways that is their
number one, and not the churchand actually guide the course is
number one, and then you go fromthere, right, but you know, my
prior I had to reprioritize putit that way. It's exactly what's

(20:36):
practical and get some balancedin my life. And I can take you
from there on if you want me togo, he's well, and then and I
would say, shortly after, afterI got working in mentorship
really with Ken Callahan, whoprovided me with an
understanding of learning how todelegate, learning how to be a

(20:58):
leader. Again, this is somethingthat of seminary doesn't
necessarily teach or ours didn'tnecessarily teach what
leadership is about and some ofthat has to come with experience
and maturity and those kinds ofthings. And certainly, that
comes across in my book on onJames, his leadership style, his
development from being again Icall him a living link to Jesus,

(21:23):
because there's there's so muchdiscussion around his his birth
and his sibling nature in termsof was he a stepson,
stepbrother, or was he a cousin?
Or was he a younger brother? Youknow, I mean, these kinds of
discussions but but certainlypart of a family where Joseph
was and this again is is notunderstood necessarily in

(21:47):
Scripture, some would say hedied at A and right shortly
after the Christmas story. AndMary had this all these
stepchildren or this family,this brood of kids, you know,
okay. Point being is Jamesfollow Jesus, he was a close
living link to Jesus, some wouldsay, he doesn't have much in the
way of a Christology in hisletter. But my goodness, if you

(22:10):
go through his letter, it's allthis quotes from the Sermon on
the Mount things that Jesussaid, you know, versus I mean,
this on and I just drips withJesus. So I'm getting off track
here, John, but

it's okay. It's okay. We're gonna get there,
too. We're gonna talk more aboutyour book leadership,

leadership, be slow to anger, you know, quick
to listen, these kinds of thingswere were new for me, because
you can tell I'm a talker andlearning how to listen. Yes, one
of the practical things thatcame up?

And how did learning how to listen, change
your relationship with yourfamily?

Probably being, again, I've used the word
attentive and more aware, butbut present to them in a way
that I wasn't. And it boy, theterm absent father just drives a
knife into my heart. You know,if I hear that, once I've heard
it, you know, because my dad wasa traveling salesman, in many

(23:12):
respects, was an absent father.
And so it hits close to home,you know, when I hear that come
up, you know, well, why didn'tyou go to his baseball game? Or
how come you missed his tennismatch? Or, you know, what, what,
what was your excuse today, youknow, that kind of learn to make
the kids that priority? And, andalso listen to them and their,

(23:32):
their issues, their struggles?
Of which there were many?

Yeah, so talk to me about you're a pastor of an
Episcopal Church. Are you stillpastoring? You still recently?
Yes. recently retired. Okay.

And, but that really, again, is what extended
the calling. In, in a sense, youknow, you when you retire, you
no longer had the pulpit. You nolonger have the congregation.
But now here, we're talking. Andyou so there's podcasts, there's
books to be written, and I'vegot more more books in my mind

(24:10):
and, you know, attic full offolders. See, I used to use
legal pads in the days ofcomputers, you know, right. But
but, you know, I've got allkinds of material that I'd like
to not recreate, but bring backand share again, as a way of
communicating the work at alarger base.

Yeah. So you said that you had people in your
life like Ken Callahan, whohelps you with dealing with the
church growth and it kind of inand just to help understand and
develop strategies and patternsfor that. Now that you have
experience, how are youmentoring other people?

Well, part of it has been again through now
that I'm retired, it providesthe time by boundaries are
important. As far as the formerministry, I'm still in the same
town where the church is, youknow, be careful as far as all
that goes. But I am involvedwith the many nonprofit

(25:12):
organization, Boys and GirlsClub, there's what they call the
family scholar house here inLouisville, where you're
involved with the young people.
And it's not just being on aboard, it's being engaged in at
a volunteer level. And thatcertainly provides me as well as
I'm with a counseling center.
And there again, I'm notreferred to these kids, but they

(25:33):
know that I'm there, and I'mavailable. And so this gives me
the opportunity to be with them.
I also have adults that call meand would like to meet with me.
And so that good old Starbuckscomes in and, you know, provides
you with a chance to write tohear their story and listen to
their experience of of God,where they are with God, and

(25:55):
what issues are taking place intheir life, because there's so
many that are going on. And Iguess I'm still very much of a
figure in that respect that thatpeople seek me out. Because in
one sense, I'm safe. I'm notnecessarily associated with the
church, but we can do it. I'mnot gonna say behind closed

(26:15):
doors, but in a way that, youknow, they can set time with me,
and I'm available.

Yeah, being available is a very key thing.
Yes, I'm 37, I just moved almosta year ago, we're recording this
on the 28th of April, the 26thof April. So less than a week is
my one year anniversary ofmoving to a new city and
starting a new life. And I amfinding that, you know, I'm

(26:44):
involved in my church, I'mdoing, you know, things
throughout the week, I've gotfriends, you know, I've got a
lot of stuff going on, on top ofthe job that God called me down
here for, and I'm finding thatmargin difficult, you know, that
margin of availability, it'sdifficult, and I know, like, for
a season, it's okay to be busy.
And because I'm trying toestablish the community that I

(27:08):
have around me, you know,because it's, it's great to have
the support and to get to knowpeople. And then I know, at some
point, I'm gonna have to likescale back a little bit. How do
you say no, to those good thingsthat you like doing? And how do
you create that space?

Yeah, that's never been a strength of mine.
There's not a side of me thatreally wants to please everyone.
But I also, you tried to sort ofseek approval. And after a
while, I learned that you can'tplease everybody. It was a large
church, and I can show you myscars and my phones. And that's

(27:51):
what I would call boundaries isbeing able to in a gentle way,
say it's not going to worktoday, maybe we can find another
time or something to thateffect. You know, as well as to
do is, is our email inboxes isloaded with stuff. Do I have to
really answer everybody? Or canI just push a delete button, you

(28:12):
know, those kinds of things.
It's not quite as clear or cleanas it is with like us talking
together, but at the same time,it it's simpler. Yeah, to create
those boundaries, especiallysocial media, friends,

yeah, just friends, it's okay. Sometimes
you just gotta sign off forFacebook. And sometimes you
gotta sign off in real life andjust say, I'm gonna go spend
some time with Jesus alone. I'mgonna mark off this time and do
that. Yeah, that's somethingthat I try to do on a regular
basis. And, you know, somethingwe need to do. You know, the
Bible talks about a Sabbath. Andyes, we need to take that rest

(28:52):
to do that. And sometimes it's

Richard Foster, you know, that name, he
wrote celebration of discipline,see comes out renovar, a group,
along with Dallas, Willard, boththose guys were so important in
my life at a particular time.
But with that said, Richard,really emphasize the use of a
journal. And, and having thattime, and now, as I do my

(29:18):
writing, I'm not trying to getno to write stuff for a book or
a blog or things of that sort.
But again, to check in with withmy relationship with Jesus in a
way that I'll take have a gooddevotional books that I take
with me, and have with me and sothat again, provides me with a

(29:41):
way of along with obviously theScripture so that it's just it's
a discipline that has kept megoing and kept me fresh. Yeah,

that's, that's so good. Journaling is something
I've gone through seasons whereI'm really good and then
sometimes I'm really not good.
And right now, it's not as goodas I would like it to be I try
to Sure, I need to get back, Ihonestly just need to get back
to writing, you know, the penand a pad and just writing it
out. Physically, it's

where I am.
It's, it's called old school,old school,

I tried doing the digital way and worked for a
little bit. But it's just,honestly, when I get home, I
like to put my computer away,unless I have a project that I'm
definitely working on. And Ilike to kind of unplug a little
bit, you know, talking aboutunplugging and you know, going a
little bit offline. Books are agood way to kind of go offline

(30:32):
for a bit. And I want to talkabout your your book, a letter
to the church and the nextgeneration spiritual growth
through the witness of James, Iwant to talk about this. And
okay, what what things did youlearn? Where did this book come
from? And why did you feel likeit needs to be written?

Well, where did it come from? Yeah, it
again, I've actually writtenthree books on spiritual growth.
And one was, Peter, with respectto his vision, and spiritual
growth through the vision ofPeter because Peter is sort of
an arc typical figure for thefor the church of again, yes,

(31:12):
learning from his mistakes,

which version of Peter you were talking about?
Because my favorite one is whenthe the blanket came down, and
oh, sure, we're able to eat orall kinds of meat now. So pretty
much pick, I'm just joking.

Okay. All right, no, but pretty much
picking up with for the sense offollowing Jesus. And the
difference between that and getaway from me, I'm a sinful man
kind of thing. You know, thechange that came over through
Peter and the importance ofvision in our life, and in
certainly our our spiritualgrowth. But then the second one
was on Paul, that had to do withthe renewal of the mind, you

(31:45):
know, do not be conformed tothis world, but be transformed,
right. And you know, that thatreally opened me up to a deeper
understanding not only of Pauland his writings, but the
importance of the mind and therenewing of the mind. And do not
be conformed to this world thatfor the longest time, I thought,

(32:06):
what are the world is there?
What do you mean, do not beconformed to this world? You
know, and yeah, I don't mindbeing a nonconformist. But are
you sure I'm not, you know, Inever could quite work that one
out around in my head. And youknow how it is when you write
and write a book, you write itas much for yourself, and I get
it. Now, there's another world,it's the kingdom of God, you

(32:27):
know, so all of a sudden thatthat all came together. Same
thing with James. It wasactually back when I first
started in the ministry, I wasappointed a large Cathedral in
Memphis, Downtown Memphis, andbeautiful old cathedral. Again,
the liturgy, the Oregon, themusic, you know, was grand, and
so on and so forth. But I canremember kneeling at this big

(32:51):
old altar marble altar. Andthere was in Latin, the words of
ALLAH lujah Hosanna, which meanspraise the Lord. And I never had
the guts really to ask what thatmeant until shortly before
leaving, and I found someone andhe said, Oh, those were the last
words of Mother constant. And Isaid the last words he said,

(33:12):
Yes, she died at age 33. Andsaid, what? You know, I knew
nothing about this. Here we go.
Mother constant was the motherfrom an order in New York that
came to Memphis during theyellow fever epidemic in 1876.

(33:34):
or something, I think is thedate. Yellow Fever, John think
COVID. Yeah. Okay, so here weare in 1876. Oh, by the way,
right after the Civil War,Memphis,

Unknown (33:47):
Southern. Oh, wow.
Yeah, that's another you know,another longer.

Yeah, cotton.
You know, I mean, it's all gone.
Everything's gone. The city isgone. So it was a awful time for
that city. And then you throw inyellow fever, the boat. The
times were not easy. So she'sthere. And her. My point of all
this is I was so inspired. Whenthe more I found out her story,

(34:11):
as well as her order that wasthere. They would go around to
these. And neighbor, taking careof the widows and the orphans
doing the work of Jesus. Here wego doing the word. You see where
I'm going with this now, John?
Yeah, yeah. James, do the wordbaby. You know. And so this is
this is kind of what was in myheart was I really saw the

(34:32):
church in action. You know, Isaw church service not just a
religious service, but thechurch serving and so I came out
of that very idealistic whichyoung people are young are
idealistic, and I thought, comeon, let's go. And I bet idealism
is really stayed with me to thisday in terms of serving and

(34:55):
helping by doing the Word.

Yeah. So what are some ways that you have
practically exhibited this?
Basically, as you're writing abook, it's coming out of you,
you know, the revelations arecoming out of what God has
revealed to you. And it's, Ihope, because whenever I read
books, they change me. So I'mhoping that the author whenever
they're writing the book, it'schanging them to the real point
here. Yeah, because it's thereal deal. And it's about the

(35:22):
Word of God. Yeah, it shouldchange.

Alright, I see where you're going with this?
Well, yeah, when it helped me toclarify or think through the
word, doing the word isobviously now I say, obviously,
but doing Jesus, I mean, in thebeginning was the Word. And so
you began to develop thisunderstanding, I guess, do you
know, the whole idea and itcomes out of Ignatian

(35:49):
spirituality, the the Lectio,Divina, which is the divine
Word, and really trying to finda word and when you go through
Scripture and letting that wordspeak to you, and this is what
happened to me, probably back inthe 90s. And then on into the
21st century, early on. After Idid that spiritual formation

(36:13):
program, I learned that LectioDivina where I learned to really
to on words and digest words.
And so this came comes out inthe book, for instance, you take
a word like endurance, that'shard to come by a lot of people
have to do it, you know, toendure like Jesus on the cross.
I mean, I'm not very good atsuffering, you know, but to you

(36:33):
work through the endurance, andyou come into someone like Paul,
who will tell you that loveendures all things. And so then
that's when we begin to start tosee how can I can do it. With
God's help, you know, Godworking through me, I can
endure. So with that said, inthe book, there are countless

(36:54):
examples of where I come acrosswords that, that speak to me and
then become part of doing theword. And examples are in there
as well.

Yeah, one of my favorite verses in James is
James one, five, if any of youlack wisdom, let him ask of God,
and who gives it freely, withoutreproach? I'm constantly asking
the Lord for wisdom. Because I,there's so many things I don't
get, I don't understand. How hasHow has God revealed wisdom to
you?

Well, wisdom is a huge word in and of itself,
and certainly comes withexperience. And, and I don't
want to necessarily pin it onage. But I look at the young
people that we are mentoring,and we have a program to when I
say in our, that I've tried tobe careful with the church, I've
been asked to be part of it as amentor. Okay, but we're bringing

(37:52):
young adults who are really inthat transition year from
college to becoming youngadults. And, you know, those are
tough years, and very much backand back in the old days, it
used to be well wait till theyget married. And then they'll
come back to church or though,you know, Grant gain maturity or
whatever that that James istalking about. Much less wisdom,

(38:15):
kids are putting off marriageand or, you know, they go off to
college, and well, don't worry,they'll come back. Well, no,
they don't. So they're gone. Andwith all that said, is the sense
of bringing wisdom into life ispart of spiritual formation. And

(38:36):
where I'm going with this, Johnis that and I'm hesitant to
generalize, but but so many ofthem there, they have so much
information on their phone, andin the palm of their hand. It's
information, but it's notnecessarily formation. And
that's where the wisdom comesin. And where the really the
work and the mentoring begins,is to apply wisdom to what are

(39:01):
they looking for, and what dothey need? Again, I used a lot
of Barna. Are you familiar withBarna Research? Okay, well, I
use a lot of their research thathas to do with young people, and
you've heard this a milliontimes that they're spiritual,
but they're not religious. Oh,yeah.

Unknown (39:20):
You know, and

you go, Oh, come on, by the way, almost,
but, you know, okay, can I beboth? Can I be spiritual and
religious? Is that okay withyou, you know, that kind of
thing. And then let's talk aboutjust being spiritual. And what
does that mean? Well, you know,there's a lot of spirits out
there. And that just beingspiritual isn't always a good

(39:43):
thing. You know, you want to becareful with that. And that's
where religion literally meansto tie or bind together and, you
know, a little religion canhelp. But with that said, they
also are the ones and you'veheard of the nuns, the ones none
of the above. Yeah, what aboutthat? Yeah. Oh, My gosh, the
number is staggering. And here'sI take all this as a cry for

(40:06):
help. You know the media lovesit headlines, all that kind of
stuff. Look at it. Everyone'sleaving the church. Yeah. Listen
carefully to what's being saidbecause none of the above I'm
not Jewish. I'm not Christian.
I'm not Islam. I'm not Muslim.
I'm not Buddhist, you know? Whatare you? None of the above?
Okay, I'm getting political forone second. Okay. Come on with

(40:29):
me. Over to Putin, into Russia?
What do they circle? None of theabove? Communism? None of the
above? I've been to EastGermany. Okay. Oh, it's awful.
You know, and you, okay, I couldgo on and on about this, you
know, you push the button here,but, but the need to, again,

(40:50):
bring some wisdom. And and and Idon't want to say this is what
is going on now, with youngpeople in Ukraine, I mean, are
starting to see the light, butthey see the danger that's out
there. And this world that isjust, you know, all about power,
or, you know, force are we go Ijust yeah,

I could go on.
That's okay. You know, let's gothere for a little bit. You
know, I spent some time I spentsome time in Eastern Europe, the
former communist countries,myself, alright, then to you
know, Bulgaria, Romania,Moldova, Ukraine, and Poland.
And Ukraine is in the news rightnow, because of the Russian
invasion. And I'm sure, nomatter when people are listening

(41:35):
to this, that is still going tobe something that people are
very well aware of happeningbetween the Russia and Ukraine.
And you're totally right. Imean, just the atmosphere in
those countries that where theyreally don't circle any of the
above that they circle that noneof the above thing, whenever you
ask where you know, what theirreligious belief are. And, you

(41:57):
know, if, apart from Jesus, Idon't think the sun shines too
bright. I mean, the sky is notas blue in those areas. I'm not
even being facetious. I mean, Ireally felt like there was just
this overcast in that area. AndI know, it's because in my
spirit, I know, it's because ofthe lack of, of understanding
and relationship with God. And Iknow that that does affect the

(42:21):
land, as well.

And again, back to the kingdom of God, you
know, you think, the love ofGod, it's the love of God that
we're talking about, you know,so it's not, I can remember the
remember the good old days withThe Beatles, all you need is
love. Yeah, yeah. I guess.

Beatles, a classic, everybody should know
that.

But I used to sing that, and not with the
Beatles, but in the shower. Andyou know, and I thought, you
know, how great, that's all youneed is love. Well, love needs
God. It needs a ruler, you know,love can spin out of control so
quickly. I don't know if this iswhere you're going. But I don't

(43:08):
want to get off track hereexcept to say that, but this is
again, where religion to me isso important in terms of here
again, the peace of God, thatpasses all understanding. It's
the peace of God, not, you know,a political peace necessarily. I
mean, you know, they're lookingfor ways to get off the exit

(43:28):
ramp, or whatever they call it.
But but you know, it's it's thepeace of God is when you
experience peace that is beyondall understanding. It's
understanding, because it'sabout faith. Yeah. So here we
go. I'm preaching.

I like it. Yeah.
So that piece. So many times,we're just caught up in, in the
emotions of the day, we'recaught up in our situations.
And, you know, there's somethings that have happened in my
life just recently, that it justfeels like there's chaos and
turmoil all around. And it'sreally hard to see where, where

(44:07):
is God in this situation. And,you know, you've walked with the
Lord for a while, and you'vebeen serving him for a long
time. And I greatly appreciatethat. But my, the theme of this
podcast is, I want to learn fromthose moments in your life,
Robin, where you look back nowand you see that Jesus really

(44:28):
was walking with you, eventhough it didn't feel like it in
the moment, just like on theroad to Emmaus, you know, my
theme, my theme for the podcastis that they were walking with
Jesus for roughly seven miles, Imean, depending on what scholars
you listen to, but roughly sevenmiles Okay, so I, I walked two
to three miles a day. My averagepace is, you know, 17 to 20

(44:49):
minutes depending on howdistracted I am per mile and so
so you're looking at, maybe onon a road Okay, where are these
guys are wearing sandals. Andit's not the, you know, it's not
a road like we have right now.
So maybe it took them a half anhour. So they're walking with
Jesus for about three hours orso and have no clue that it's

(45:12):
Jesus that's actually talking tothem. Until they sit down at the
table. When they finally get toEmmaus, Jesus blesses the food
breaks the bread, their eyes areopened for a moment, and they
realize that it's Jesus, andthen poof, he's gone. And they
turn to each other and say, andLuke 2432 weren't our hearts
burning within us along the way,as he was revealing the

(45:34):
Scriptures to us. Basically, weshould have realized that this
was Jesus this whole time, likehe was right there. But we just
missed it. You know, I'm surethey didn't miss it the next
time, you know, the next timethat God was trying to get their
attention, because they werepaying more attention. And
that's what I want to learn fromthis podcast. So Robin, can you
tell me about a moment in yourlife where you look back now?

(45:57):
And you see that Jesus reallywas walking with you, but in the
moment that maybe didn't feellike it? Or maybe you didn't see
it?

One experience? So you want as one?
Give me? Give me at least onegive me at least one? I mean, I
and I'm laughing only becauseI'm live and learn kind of
exactly what and it's also backto the journal, that's where it
comes in. Is my lack ofawareness is no different from
the disciples. I mean, again, Iwouldn't be walking, I'd be

(46:26):
jogging, or I'd be sprinting,you know, I mean, that kind of
thing. And no wonder I couldn'thear Jesus because I couldn't
breathe. So it's, it's that kindof hyperness that that is where
those times, but I'll neverforget when our second son
joined the Marines after shortlyafter 911, and he was one of
those young men. And he wasgonna go into the Marines for

(46:50):
whatever it is two or threeyears as an enlisted man. And
then once in there, he decidedhe wanted to join and the and
fly. And I said, Oh, great. Whatdoes that mean? He said, Well, I
think I'm gonna fly helicopters.
I said, Why don't you fly jets,you know, get above out of
danger. Instead, oh, no, thesethese are, these are much cooler
days, you know, this be great. Imean, yet to know, the boy. He's

(47:12):
a risk taker. But needless tosay, my heart was going a mile
and you know, nine out of 10times, I would say, don't tell
your mother. Just. But with allthat said, is that there was the
faith throughout that. God wouldbe with him. However, he had
four tours in Iraq. And he wasin, say, a helicopter pilot. He

(47:36):
flew those if you remember, youcan get this was before you were
born. But mash? Yeah. Rememberon TV, if you had I used to

watch. I used to watch it with my crap all the
time. Okay, there you go. Butthe

double road or helicopters, that's what he flew
and did a lot of medical relief,well, that it was very heroic,
and it was very good servicethat he was providing, however,
that is into danger zones, hotzones, they call he was always
into kind of different kind ofenemy fire. And it was very,
very difficult. For us, my wifeand I, because we had no clue

(48:15):
where he was. He did have he hasa girlfriend, who then became
his fiancee and his wife, it's ahappy story. I mean, is she's a
Navy nurse, I would call herperiodically. She was very
religious, I'm getting justchoked up on this. But when I
call her she was so positive.
And she was so encouraging, andso helpful. Because she did have

(48:37):
some connections through otherNavy Nurse wives that would be
able to, if they didn'tnecessarily know where they're
there they were, they knew howthey were doing or what was
happening, or what results werecoming, you know, in terms of
hospitals and in calls. And sowe were able to get some kind of

(48:58):
explanation of where's our boy,and she was always the one that
was there for us. But she wasvery positive. And she would
always say, Don't worry, don'tworry, you got to trust God in
this. Yeah. You've got to havefaith. You're the minister
Robin. You know, I mean, shewould tell me this and get
laughing Yeah, okay, fine. Thankyou, goodbye. But she was right.

(49:20):
And she kept us our heads on andshe she was our link to where
our son was, and it was one ofthose times where, again, I
really was very, very close toguy because the prayers were
minute by minute, you know, youget on the radio, a helicopter
went down and my wife would bein tears and, you know, a

(49:41):
helicopter and where were they?
And you know, so anyway, so itwas always always on edge. And
that was a time that was eightyears that I can relive in a
heartbeat, but at the same time,it was a reminder that don't
worry Robin trust God, keepsaying your prayers. God's with

(50:04):
you. You know it. It again keptus going.

Yeah. So where do you look back and see Jesus
walking with you in that though?

Well, in in our son's absence, we found
Jesus is obvious presents.
Gotcha. I couldn't really saymuch to the church at the time,
I tried not to bring it up.
Because here I got almost amotion of Matt, I was emotional
with you, but But you know, itcomes to the surface quickly.
And you can imagine in thesermon, and I just didn't want

(50:36):
it, much of it was his story totell. And I didn't want to
necessarily get into that. Butat the same time, it was it was
something that was right thereon me, and my heart, but there,
Jesus was also right there on myheart. And so with Scripture
with faith with prayer, andagain, with the support of some

(50:57):
important people in my life atthat time, that was we were able
to, you know, have anunderstanding that, yeah, there
was sacredness to theexperience.

So you're trusting in Jesus deepened
during that whole process?
Absolutely.

Absolutely.
Now, you don't come away thesame. And that's, that's part of
the Amanda's story, too. It's,you're different as a result of
that.

Right, right. my follow up question that I always
like asking is, you know, if youcould go back in time, and visit
a younger version of yourself,maybe teenager, early 20s,
whatever phase in life you want,whatever season in life you want
to go back to, and give yourselfa piece of advice. And I want to

(51:43):
hear what that advice is, butalso what's going on in your
life at that point that youwould want to hear. Robin from
2022 What this Robin has to sayto that Robin?

Well, again, there'd be several times where I
wouldn't say I was off course.
But I was self driven. And partof the advice that I would give
again, is that only allow God todo some work. And you you know,
you're not a self made man,Robin, you know, but I can
remember, at one point, I was ina little small group with a

(52:19):
couple of oils, one of them wasan Air Force pilot, and now
ordained minister, and we weretalking about surrender. And I
said, I just can't do that. Ican't do that. And letting go,
you know, let go let God allthis. And I said, Yeah, that's
that's not me that you guys dothat. You you talk about it,
I'll I'll take a break. getcoffee or so. Anyways, he

(52:41):
stopped and looked me right inthe eye. And he said, you know,
and this was his advice to me asa younger person. So I don't
know if this works is exactlywhat you're talking about. But
what he said to me is he said,You know, I'm not being sexist.
But he said is, is boys we growup. We grew up never to quit,
you know, we were told never toquit. Will you remember?

(53:02):
quitters? never win winnersnever quit that kind of thing.
Exactly. Yeah. And he said,that's how we were. And I said,
I yeah, I'm all with it. Then hesaid to me, and I'll never
forget the way he just looked atme. And he says, you know, that
was true to when we flew thatwhen we were in the Air Force.
He said, You never surrender tothe enemy. He said, You'd rather
shoot yourself than surrender tothe enemy. So it was a bad word

(53:23):
for me to Robin. You know, Imean, he's going right at me
now. It's just up man on mankind of thing. And he said, but
here's what I learned, as hesaid, surrendering to God is not
surrendering to the enemy. Andthen he paused, you know, and I
went, Oh, it's surrendering tothe source of love. It's letting

(53:46):
go to the source of love to theone who loves you. You can do
that, you know? And it was thatalmost simple of a shift. But I
want to call a paradigm shiftand me Sure, what moved me from
being so damn self centered.
Pardon my language, or you know,from being self centered, you

(54:11):
know, which is a very smallworld, when you think about it.
It's there's, there's not muchto it, but I thought that was
where all the action was tohaving a center itself life that
was centered in Christ. And thatcame with the gift, really the
gift and the discipline ofsurrender.

Yeah. So if you could go back and visit
yourself, you'd give yourselfthe advice that somebody
actually gave you. Yeah. Wow.
That's cool that God usesomebody to give you that advice
that you would want rightbetween the eyes. So that really
means something to you. This dayto this day. Yeah, absolutely.
Wow. And I'm sure you've toldthat to other people as well.

Oh, I have I have and it was a way of saying
grow up. More poetic that

Unknown (54:58):
way. Yeah. All right.
Thank you.

Yeah, that's really cool. That's awesome that
you can look back at that momentand say, You know what, even
though I didn't get to go backin time to visit my younger
self, God did send somebody, youknow, God who's outside of time
did send somebody to give me thewords that I needed to hear. And
that still rings true many yearslater. That's awesome. Yeah,

(55:21):
that is really awesome. Youknow, Robin, I want to give you
an opportunity to to just talkabout your book a little bit
more, and let people know howthey can get it, how they can
get a hold of you, and what theycan expect to receive what
impartation they can expect toreceive as they read it?

Well, again, going off the title, I say it's
a letter to the church. That'sJames's letter. It's not my
letter saying, Dear church, it'sJames's letter and what I use,
if you've read, you know, James,and it's short, I mean, it's
like five chapters, but oh, mygosh, it's loaded. And remember,
I told you, I like to use theLectio Divina and just take one

(56:02):
word at a time you couldimagine, right, James, you could
use take every word and writevolumes, which I was starting to
do. So what I did is I just tookhis first chapter. And I use and
I shouldn't say just becausethat really provided a framework
for the book, but also, itprovides a lot of the elements
that then come out in his letteras well. So with that said, that

(56:24):
is the letter to the church isJames. And then I also write the
next generation because Jameshimself was writing to the next
generation. He could see thegenerations changing right
before his eyes, obviously withPaul, but then also with the

(56:45):
church of Jerusalem, of whichwere, some would say he was the
bishop. And in charge of thisnew Christian way, they were the
people at the way. Remember thatthey were called court
Christians, but But with thatsaid, the subtitle is spiritual
growth through the witness ofJames and the witness is being a

(57:06):
mentor, to this next generation.
And so that's kind of thetakeaway in the book that I
really tried to emphasize, and Ithink, is a button that a lot of
people are pushing is how, andthis isn't necessarily a how to
book but it provides again, Iwould say not just the
inspiration, but the desire tobecome a mentor. And there's a

(57:27):
lot of practical How To books,but behind it needs to be the
faith framework, for instance,vocation, a calling, you know,
that's the, that's where theword call comes from. vocation.
Well, that's, that's one aspectof, of the book is to, let's
look at our vocation and ourcalling. And I can tell you from
mine, it was a very simpleFollow me, you know, I used to

(57:51):
think it was I was waiting forthe phone to ring or something
back in my days. But I find outNo, it's It's not that it's it's
come on, it's Jesus sayingfollow me, Robin. And so that
that was my call, it was verysimple. But at the same time,
this understanding needs to beconveyed and communicated to
this next generation. Tell meabout your calling. Where do you

(58:12):
think God's calling you? Youknow, so these are the I have
exercises within the book, aswell as chapter summaries that
help an understanding of what itis that is important to one's
faith as they become mentors andwork with this next generation

(58:32):
and bear witness.

Yeah, and people can find that book and your
information at Robin shoe.
jennings.com.

Correct. And it's actually for you, John, I
have a landing page and for yourlisteners, Oh, great. Jennings
yeah.com. And then a backslashguided reflection. Okay, guided
reflection and what that is,here we go, John.

Unknown (58:57):
So this is for you, right. This is great. This is a
turtle. I love it. I love it.
You get a real Live Journal freedownload.

No, but it's a it's a 50 page journal that you
can download. But in it are theelements that I've just talked
about with my books. One week,as I envision one week as on
renewal, one break is really onthis whole idea of of bearing
witness. And then the finalweek, the fourth week is on the
importance of being a mentor. Sowith that said, Robin teach

(59:27):
endings.com/back/guidedreflection,

simplest guided reflection, I like that and I
will make sure to put that inthe show. Thank you. That way
people can easily just go thereand click it be taken right
there. Because what you'reproviding is valuable
information. And I like thatyou're you've broken it down
even further. Just to make itsimple for us and giving us give

(59:52):
us a taste of of the revelationthat God's given you through the
book of James boy. So yeah, thisis this is good. I Appreciate
that. That's a that's like afree gift that you've given all
the listeners here. So all yougot to do is click the link
that's going to be in the shownotes here and you'll be able to
get all of Robins information atthat website, Robin t

(01:00:13):
jennings.com, backslash guidedreflection. Robin, I just want
to ask you before we wrap uphere, if you would just pray for
the listeners here. And I knowat the beginning of this, you
said, if somebody asked you topray, you would say what page.
But now I think we've moved onfrom that you can pray. I
realized that I was asking youto do something. But I'm glad

(01:00:34):
we're good now. So

Robin T Jennings (01:00:36):
you can just pray for them. There's no
comfort, so don't worry aboutthat. But no, let's pray. Dear
God, we thank you for this time.
And for this opportunity to bepresent to you to John, to all
who are within earshot and arelistening. Not to our words or
our conversation, but to yourword into the conversation that

(01:01:00):
you may be having within them.
Now, as we speak. Speak to them.
Offer to them, your guidance,your direction, your leadership,
and we pray that you will beobviously their mentor in ways

(01:01:21):
that will lift them up to do thework that you would have them to
do. As you now work with himthem. Bless this podcast, bless
this time together. And may italways be to your glory, and to

(01:01:42):
your honor, all of which we askand your sons Most Holy Name
Jesus Christ, amen.

John Matarazzo (01:01:51):
Amen. Amen.
Robin, thank you so much forspending some time with me and
allowing me to just hear yourjourney with the Lord, as as
you've been growing spiritually,and I love what you said. And
it's challenging me to takeinformation and let it turn into
formation. Oh, no, I want totake everything that God has put
in front of me, that isinformation and allow it to form

(01:02:14):
so and turn into formation. Sothat's that's one of my
takeaways from our conversationhere. And I just want to thank
you for allowing me to join youalong your way.

Robin T Jennings (01:02:27):
But it's been a blessing. Thank you. I really
appreciate it. My pleasure, myhonor. Thank you.

John Matarazzo (01:02:34):
Thank you for listening to along the way. If
you've enjoyed joining me alongmy way, please share this with a
friend who you think will beencouraged by this podcast.
Also, please rate and reviewalong the way on iTunes. That
helps more people discover alongthe way. And subscribe to this
podcast wherever you'relistening. You can follow me on
Facebook, Instagram and on mywebsite along the way dot media.

(01:02:55):
I hope that you've enjoyed thispart of my journey. And may you
realize when Jesus is walkingwith you along your way. Along
the way is honored to be part ofthe charisma Podcast Network.
You can find tons of spiritfilled content from their vast
catalogue of podcast includingmy news stories with the
charisma news podcast. Go to CPNshows.com To see the full list

(01:03:17):
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“Spiritual Growth Through The Witness of James” - Robin T Jennings - AlongTheWay 120

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}“Spiritual Growth Through The Witness of James” - Robin T Jennings - AlongTheWay 120