November 4, 2024 • 49 mins
In this unique two-part episode of the Animal Training Academy podcast, we sit down with Ulrika Andreasson, a seasoned expert in Positive Reinforement animal training who has spent the past 25 years perfecting her craft. Ulrika, has a background in training a wide range of animals, including dogs, horses, and reindeer.
In this first part of our conversation, Ullis takes us on a journey through her early years, growing up in the remote forests of northern Sweden, where her passion for animal training began. She shares insightful stories about her transition from traditional training methods to positive reinforcement techniques, inspired by a chance encounter with Anders Hallgren's book on clicker training. Ulrika also discusses her innovative work with reindeer, including how she became one of the first in the world to train them for film, tourism, and live performances.
Listeners will gain a understanding of Ulrika's philosophy, her approach to overcoming training challenges, and the unique bond she creates with the animals she works with. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in animal behavior, ethical training practices, and the incredible potential of Positive Reinforcement methods.
What You’ll Discover in This Episode:
- Ulrika's inspiring journey from traditional training methods to clicker training.
- The challenges and triumphs of training a wide range of animals, from hunting dogs to reindeer.
- The unique aspects of animal training in the remote northern regions of Sweden.
- How Ulrika became a pioneer in training reindeer for film and live performances.
Why This Episode is a Must-Listen: Ulrika Andreasson's extensive experience and innovative training techniques provide invaluable insights for animal trainers, behaviorists, and enthusiasts alike. Her dedication to reward-based training and her success in applying these methods to diverse species make this episode an essential listen for anyone looking to expand their knowledge and skills in animal training.
Engage With Us: We invite you to subscribe to our podcast, share this episode with fellow animal enthusiasts, and join our community for ongoing discussions on ethical training practices and animal care.
Links:
- Visit Ulrika's website HERE
- Reindeer workshop! March 2025
- Social Media;
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to the Animal Training Academy podcast show.
I'm your host, Ryan Carledge, and I'm passionate
about helping you master your animal training skills
using the most positive and least intrusive approaches.
Here at ATA, we understand that navigating the
vast challenges you encounter in training requires a
(00:27):
comprehensive base of knowledge and experience.
It's common to face obstacles and rough patches
on your journey that can leave you feeling
overwhelmed and stressed.
Therefore, since 2015, we have been on a
mission to empower animal training geeks worldwide.
We've aided thousands in developing their skills, expanding
(00:51):
their knowledge, boosting their confidence, and maximising their
positive impact on all the animal and human
learners they work with.
We are excited to do the same for
you.
Simply visit www.atamember.com, join our vibrant
(01:12):
community, and geek out with us.
And of course, in the meantime, enjoy this
free podcast episode as we explore new ways
to help you supercharge your training skills, grow
your knowledge, and build your confidence so that
you can craft a life that positively impacts
(01:32):
every learner you encounter.
We will start today's episode where we will
talk to one Ulrika Andreasen, or Ulis in
short.
Ulis has been practising reward-based training for
(01:55):
25 years and currently works full-time as
a teacher and trainer, specialising in dogs, horses,
and reindeer.
She has demonstrated the power of clicker training
in some unique areas, including training the first
Labrador to become a Swedish ski drawing champion,
winning two gold medals at the Swedish National
(02:18):
Sled Dog Championship.
Twelve years ago, she also began training reindeer
for film and events and has since participated
in several movies, performing twice at the Sweden
International Horse Show and showcased her skills at
the opening ceremonies of the world champions in
biathlon and alpine skiing.
(02:38):
Today, Ulis trains hunting dogs not to hunt
reindeer using a redirection technique known as tattling.
She also offers courses in gundog retrieving, obedience,
and puppy training, while continuing to train her
reindeer for tourist events, films, and live performances.
In her spare time, she practices academic riding
with her two horses.
(02:59):
So without further ado, it's my very great
pleasure to welcome Ulis to the show today,
who's patiently waiting by.
Ulis, thank you so much for taking the
time to come and hang out with me
at Animal Training Academy.
Thank you so much for inviting me, Ryan.
Well, your appearance on our show comes at
(03:20):
the recommendations of multiple trainers who are highly
skilled and who I value a lot because
of their skill and their knowledge.
And consequently, I appreciate their opinions.
So great gratitude to Morten Ektevert and Eva
Berthelsen for recommending you as a fabulous guest
(03:43):
on our show.
So I can't wait to dive in and
learn about your story, about your journey.
Ulis, we love hearing people's behavioral odysseys, as
we like to call them on this show.
So could you take the listeners back to
where you started on your behavioral odyssey, where
(04:03):
you first got started training and learning about
positive reinforcement animal training?
Sure.
It's maybe a bit different story.
I grew up in the northern part of
Sweden, up on a little mountain.
So I had quite a distance to meet
friends.
(04:24):
And mostly I hang out with my family's
hunting dogs.
And we had always a few moose hunting
dogs.
That's quite a big dog searching the forest
for moose.
And whenever they find the moose, they start
barking at it.
And it's quite independent, brave dogs.
(04:45):
They can just run around in the forest
for themselves for 24 hours.
That's not a problem.
And these were my friends, and I started
to train them.
I saw movies like Beethoven and Lassie when
I was a child.
And all I can think about was, how
(05:06):
did they teach the dogs all those tricks
that they did in the movies?
And I knew that when I grew up,
I wanted to be an animal trainer, and
I wanted to teach the animals funny stuff
for movies.
So I did my best with those hunting
dogs.
I taught them tricks, and we went dog
sledding.
And I made agility courses and stuff like
(05:29):
that.
And I asked people around me that had
dogs how to train them.
And there was quite a few sled dog
persons around me at that time.
And they said, yeah, you have to show
them who's the boss.
You have to be the leader.
(05:51):
Tell them who's in charge.
And I was like, yeah, how do I
do that?
And they said, it's important that you eat
before them.
And if they behave bad, you should just
bite them in the ear, and then they'll
know who's the boss.
And I'm not proud to tell you, but
when I was like 10 years old, I
(06:12):
bit a dog in the ear.
And of course, he reacted quite strongly, like,
what are you doing?
And he threw his head up and punched
my nose.
So when I was coming home from that
tour in the forest, my dog had a
hurt ear.
And blood was running from my nose.
(06:35):
And my mother was like, what have you
done?
Yeah, don't ask.
And I thought, for sure, this is how
it's done.
This is no fun.
But just a bit after that, another dog
sledding person handed me a book that he
(06:56):
got from somewhere.
And he's like, I'm not going to read
this book.
Do you want it?
And it said, Clicker Training Your Dog by
Anders Hallgren.
He was one of the first in Sweden
to bring clicker training to this country.
And I read the book.
And then I knew that, okay, this is
how I want to train animals.
(07:17):
I was sure.
And from that day on, I didn't bite
any dogs.
And I started to say no.
And I began the journey of clicker training
on my own, like 14 years old, maybe.
Still up on that mountain, we didn't have
any club or something where you could go
(07:41):
and meet other people training dogs.
So I read the book and I did
my best.
And I had my own dog, a moose
hunting dog at this time.
She was called Trixie.
And when I started to clicker train her,
we also started to win competitions.
I wanted to do obedience training.
(08:04):
And I had been competing for a few
times, but we always got the second prize
on these competitions.
And I wanted to have a first prize
because then you were moved up to the
next class or next grade.
I don't know how you say it.
Next level.
And after we started to clicker train, we
(08:26):
started to win.
And that was, of course, really reinforcing for
me.
And yeah, since then, I just tried to
be better and better.
And that led me to Mårten Egtved's clicker
training education.
And after that, I also did his clicker
(08:47):
instructor course.
And yeah, that taught me a lot and
was probably the biggest moments for me to
be a better clicker trainer, to do his
classes.
I think they've done a lot for Sweden
(09:08):
and the north.
And it's a really, really good education that
they have.
So that was kind of how it started
for me.
And on the road, I always enjoyed trying
to motivate different animals to do different stuff
that they are not like originally bred to
(09:28):
do, like training obedience with that hunting dog.
When I got my Labrador retriever, I think
I competed with him in like eight disciplines.
And one of them was ski during where
he ran for 10 kilometers, pulling me on
skis.
And as Labradors are not known to be
(09:49):
great sled dogs, I can tell you that.
But I knew that motivation is the only
thing required.
And yeah, I was reinforcing him for running
fast for just a few hundred meters at
(10:10):
first with a big, big Christmas feeling in
the end.
And just like back change it to get
longer and longer and longer.
And in the end, he ran 10 kilometers,
full speed passing everyone else.
And I knew if he do his best,
(10:30):
he will be faster than German shepherds and
other dogs that was just taking it easy,
not doing their best.
And yeah, he became the best.
And yeah, it was a really interesting journey
for me to do that with him.
So I think there's going to be people
(10:51):
listening to this podcast and including me before
I jumped on to record with you.
Googling during not quite understanding what we're talking
about.
I think I think during is a is
a unique word at least or sport to
(11:11):
your area of the world.
And now I'm not sure if that's our
English word skijoring and because sled dogging dog
sledding is more like riding a sleigh.
Right.
And here we go on skis with the
dog and then it's like dog sledding, but
(11:33):
on skis with only one dog.
OK, so along the flat or up and
down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a flat up and it's not like
downhill skiing with the dog, but yeah, on
the flat.
So the dog pulls your weight a little
bit depends on how good of a skier
you are.
You have cross-country skis on.
(11:56):
And so this is a sport traditionally done
with German shepherds.
OK, yeah, this is OK.
This was a bit deeper.
I didn't think about that.
This is so special to this area, but
maybe it is.
OK, there's a few classes and then for
(12:16):
one group of dogs, there's only huskies.
OK, Siberian huskies and another group for German
shorthair.
That's one of our bird hunting dogs.
That's really, really fast.
They have their own group as well.
And then in the third group is all
other breeds.
No Siberian huskies, no German shorthair, but all
(12:38):
other breeds.
So if you have a Labrador, you compete
against, yeah, German shepherd, but also Kofa, Dalmatians,
you name it.
Any other dog breed in the country.
Yeah, maybe there's lots of people listening to
this podcast who are like, right.
And we know what Juring is.
(12:58):
I don't know.
I didn't know what Juring was.
So it's new to me.
So you had a Labrador and you said
that this was the first Labrador to become
a champion.
Was it the first Labrador to compete or
just the first Labrador to become a champion?
To become a champion, I think there was
one Labrador before us, a female dog that
(13:21):
competed.
But this was the first Labrador to be
a champion, if I'm right.
After that, we had a few more, but
you know, you always have to, someone has
to go first, right?
Yes, that's what I was thinking.
So there's Juring, which you've all learned about
(13:45):
what Juring is, and how did you get
drawn into wanting to compete in Juring?
Is it just because it was part of
your upbringing and part of your...
Yeah, I trained a lot of sled dogs
through the years and helped people.
You know, people live with 50 dogs in
(14:05):
the forest and whenever they want to go
on a vacation, someone has to stay there.
And that was kind of my speciality when
I was 14, 15 years old.
I lived at the homes and took care
of 50 dogs when these people wanted to
go on a vacation.
And I competed a bit with their dogs
(14:26):
and so on.
A relative of mine also had sled dogs
and I helped out there a lot.
So I was kind of in that sport
already since I was young.
Well, you say, you know, people live with
like 50 dogs in the forest.
I don't know that, because in New Zealand,
I don't think people live with like 50
(14:48):
dogs in the forest.
I think that is, again, because you're talking
sled dogs, right?
Yes, sled dogs.
So some people have 50 dogs whose job
is...
Each individual dog's job is to be a
(15:09):
sled dog?
Yes, they are pulling a sleigh.
And few of these people are working with
tourism.
Then you need 50 dogs.
Where tourists come and drive their own sled
with dogs up the mountain for a week
or so.
But there's also people, quite a lot from
the Netherlands and Germany, moving up here, buying
(15:29):
a house.
And they might have somewhere around 20 and
30 dogs.
And they might just go on sled dog
drives for fun and for competition.
They don't work with it.
But, you know, if you're competing in a
long distance sled dog competition, you can have
(15:51):
a team of eight dogs.
But then you need eight dogs in full
condition.
And you always have a few older dogs.
You have a few limp dogs.
You have puppies that you want to compete
with in the future.
So if you need a good team of
eight dogs, you always end up having like
(16:13):
20.
That's how it is.
And it's hard to go on vacation with
20 dogs only.
So you need someone staying at the kennel
taking care of them.
And it's cheap with 14-year-old girls
that like dogs, you know.
Yeah, I mean, those kinds of opportunities are
available.
(16:34):
So that's who you hire.
We normally tell people to go and volunteer
at the shelter.
But I imagine that's a great opportunity to
go and work with a lot of dogs.
Yeah, because we don't have any shelters up
here.
So help people.
Yeah, it is.
(16:54):
And help people understand that one of the
things I love about this show is finding
individuals like yourself and showcasing the unique places
we live in the world, the unique relationships
we have with animals and the unique things
we train with animals in different parts of
(17:15):
the world.
But the glue that holds us all together
is we're all singing the same song from
the same song sheet, Positive Reinforcement and those
ethical and humane ways of training.
So I love that you're there doing what
we're doing with your moose and your 50
(17:36):
sleigh dogs.
Explain to everyone where exactly you are.
Because, I mean, I think when people think
of Sweden, they think of maybe Stockholm or
other large cities.
But you're up in the snow, up in
the mountains.
Yeah.
OK, so Sweden is a really long country.
(17:56):
And actually, I live close to the middle,
but it's considered the north.
But the north is everything from the middle,
not from the middle even.
The lowest third of Sweden is considered like
Sweden.
And then the two thirds above that's in
the north.
You know, there's much fewer cities and more
(18:20):
wood.
Forest, forest, forest, forest.
And yeah, I grew up in the middle
of the forest.
We have a good winter.
We have one meter of snow.
And yeah, we have quite a lot of
sled dogs up here because of all the
snow.
So it's big.
We have a lot of sled dogs.
We also have a lot of moose.
So those moose hunting dogs and sled dogs
(18:42):
are really common around here.
And I live close to Åre, which is
quite a famous ski resort.
Maybe not in New Zealand, but in Sweden
anyway.
And yeah, snowmobiling, downhill skiing.
Yeah, that's also big sports around here.
Yeah, that's all very cool.
I didn't realize moose were there.
(19:05):
I was thinking about moose being in Canada.
So I'm learning.
We have a lot of moose and also
bear.
And so you grew up around all of
these sled dogs.
And as a 14-year-old, you were
looking after large groups of working dogs for
(19:26):
people as they went on their holidays.
And you got into drawing and you saw
what was involved.
And you wanted to do it and you
had a Labrador.
So that was a dog that you had
to do it with?
Or you went like, no, you guys aren't
using Labradors.
I'm going to do it with a Labrador.
No, okay, this is a bit silly, but
(19:48):
I'll tell you anyway.
I wanted to do obedience training with a
Labrador.
And I wanted to do, how would you
say, tracking and searching for people.
That's also different competitions you can do in
Sweden.
Searching people, tracking people.
And I wanted to do that.
So I bought this Labrador.
(20:09):
And then a friend of mine said, oh,
but the Labrador, is that even a real
dog to do training and competitions with?
Aren't they quite lazy just wanting to lie
down on the couch eating cinnamon buns?
And then I got a bit annoyed, you
(20:30):
know.
And it just came out of me.
I said, no, this Labrador will be a
sled dog, competition dog.
And I was like, why did I say
that?
I just did because I was like, yeah,
you'll see.
(20:50):
And then I had to do it, you
know.
But I love to go skiing with dogs.
I've done that since I was like five
years old.
And we trained the hunting dogs by, yeah,
doing ski during.
So I like to do that ever since
I was a child.
And I think it's really good physical training
(21:11):
for every dog.
So I've done it with all my dogs
forever just for keeping them in shape.
But now I said, yeah, he'll do competitions
as well.
And, yeah, that's how it started, actually.
Okay.
And so tell us about what you learned
(21:31):
from that, because there's this.
And how would you describe that breed now
in terms of during?
Would you be like, yeah, yeah, they're fine
during dogs?
Or would you be like, no, maybe get
a different breed?
Like, how does that influence your thought about
breeds and training and individuals?
I think if you want to win competitions
(21:54):
in ski during, Labrador is not like the
breed you'll pick.
But I don't think there's any specific breed.
Okay.
German Shorthair, most of them, they run and
they run and they run and they run.
Most of the people wanting to compete in
ski during, they buy a German Shorthair.
(22:15):
Okay.
But if you have another breed, you can
pick any breed.
They might like to run, but most of
them are not motivated to run their best
kilometer by kilometer by kilometer.
And if they, because the problem is on
the competition, it's always fun to run in
(22:38):
the beginning.
But then you find another dog on the
track.
And most dogs is like, oh, hey, your
friend.
Hello.
Can I run beside you and hang out?
And maybe it's a good luck getting a
female dog as well.
And, you know, they stop up.
They start to trot.
They interact with the other dog instead of
(22:59):
focusing on running.
Right.
And then they don't run as fast as
they can.
And I knew this.
And I thought if he just runs his
best, he will be better than the other
dogs that have better opportunities to run fast
for a long time.
(23:19):
If he just do his best, he will
still be better than them.
And if he just, if he just have
the motivation to do it, like that's the
only key that I need.
So I just built it really small, run
full speed, 200 meters.
And in the end, I often had a
(23:43):
moose leg.
Sorry, maybe this is a bit gross for
other people.
But, you know, since it's minus degrees up
here all winter, meat doesn't get rotten if
it's outside.
And in the end of the moose hunt,
which they chop off the legs and like
(24:04):
throw them away or give them to dogs.
And dogs love to chew on moose legs.
All right.
So I had a moose leg frozen on
the balcony in my apartment and I brought
it to the ski during training.
And I had it in the end, like
when he finished his lap.
Would you say it like that?
Yes.
(24:25):
Yeah.
When he finished the lap for that day,
he had his moose leg in the end
of the course and he could have it
for 15 minutes.
And he was such a happy dog.
And that just made him motivated to run
longer and longer and to pass other dogs
on this lap and just keep going.
You're soon in the end and there's your
(24:47):
moose leg.
So I basically built this competition dog on
a moose leg in the end, right?
Reinforcement is everything, as always.
Of course, you always have to make sure
your dog is physically strong enough to do
it, of course.
(25:08):
And he was always, during his whole life,
fit for running 10 kilometers.
But if they're physically well enough trained, it's
all about motivation.
So in this competition you entered with this
Labrador, there were other breeds that are genetically
(25:32):
predisposed to do the behavior that is wanted
by the humans.
Yes.
But what can out-compete that?
What can out-compete a breed that is
designed to do the behavior that is being
(25:52):
competed?
What can out-compete a not as well
-trained individual from that breed as a well
-trained individual from a different breed?
Yes.
Is that what you wanted to show?
Yes.
That Labradors are not lazy.
If you want it, you can do it,
right?
(26:13):
And so when you won the competition, were
people like, okay, cool, she won the competition?
Or do you feel that that impacted people's
beliefs and false beliefs?
People that know me, I don't think that
(26:34):
they thought it was as crazy as going
to obedience competitions with the moose hunting dog.
But people that know me is like, yeah,
it doesn't matter what thought she gets in
her head.
She's going to do it, you know.
But probably people don't come up to you
(26:54):
like, what did you do?
I think it absolutely gave people a different
perspective, but you have to just show it's
possible.
And when you were doing it, because you
said that it kind of just came out
of your mouth and then you were like,
oh, my God, why did I say that?
(27:16):
Did you experience after that conviction?
Did you know that you were going to
do this?
Or were you like, oh, my God, can
I actually do this?
Oh, yeah.
No, I knew I could do it.
That's always my I know it's possible.
I just have to find the way.
(27:38):
And after doing that, it was like, OK,
because I was always motivated to to train
stuff that I love to train stuff that
no one else trained before.
So I can figure out if it's possible
and how is it possible?
And sure, a few things I'm not sure
if they are possible about this.
(27:59):
I was like, sure, it's you just have
to train this dog and you can do
it.
But then and it was the same thing
later on when I when I got back,
got back to this idea about training animals
for movies.
That was my goal since I was seven
years old.
Right.
And I actually wanted to buy moose, but
(28:21):
moose is a wild animal in Sweden.
So you're not allowed to train them and
ride them, for example, that I wanted to
do.
So I tried to to catch a moose
when I was 12 years old, but I
didn't manage.
And later on, when I wanted to buy
one, I understood that you can't ride them
(28:42):
and you're not allowed in Sweden.
And then I was like, OK, then I
don't want the moose because I want to
train animals, you know.
And I came up with the idea that
reindeer are tame animals in Sweden.
We don't have any wild reindeer.
And if it's a tame animal, then you're
allowed to train it.
And I googled around and I couldn't find
(29:04):
any trick trained reindeer in the whole world
at that time.
And I thought if I'm the first person
to have trick trained reindeer, it should be
possible to work with it a little bit
anyway, since they have such a strong symbolic
value for the northern part of Sweden, the
mountain area and Christmas, of course.
(29:27):
So and I knew at this time I'm
such a good clicker trainer.
I just have to make a good training
plan and go out to train those reindeers.
Of course, it's possible.
You just have to like figure out how
to do it the best way.
And then I bought reindeer and I never
hesitated.
(29:47):
It was going to be possible.
But of course, you have to with every
new animal you train, you have to figure
out like, how do I do it the
best way with with this kind of animal?
And for sure, I wrote a lot of
training plans.
I went out to train and then I
sat down and and edited them and added
(30:10):
criteria and went out to train again.
And on it went like this for four
years.
But but I never hesitated.
It could be done.
And where do you feel like that confidence?
And I'll share why I'm asking this question
(30:32):
before I ask it.
Because self-doubt and a term that gets
used a lot is an imposter syndrome is
something that people talk about a lot and
that they experience.
And it's quite novel, I think, and unique
to have someone sharing that they're so confident
(30:54):
in these things and you've gone and done
these things.
You had every right to be confident.
You achieved what you said you were going
to achieve.
I'm just curious because you've had such a
different upbringing and you live in such a
different part of the world and you've got
your own culture there.
I'm just curious, where do you feel that
(31:15):
that self-belief and self-belief and that
confidence came from in you to look at
something and just be like, yeah, I can
do this.
No worries.
I just got to figure out how.
OK, so that in the area where I
come from, it's a really long way to
any service.
It's so far that if you need something
(31:37):
done, you do it yourself.
That's kind of the mentality.
And it's really ambitious people that live there
that figure out how to do stuff, help
each other out and whatever has to be
done, they do it themselves.
So I'm really happy that I grew up
in an environment like that.
And I could tell my dad like, oh,
I need a ladder to go up my
(31:59):
little tree house.
I don't have any ladder.
Do you have one?
And he's like, no, I don't have one.
But let's go out and build one.
And he followed me out and he taught
me how to build a ladder.
We built it and then I had it
like that.
It was with everything.
I need this.
Yeah, let's go out and build it.
(32:20):
So I think that's one part of it.
And then when I when I started to
learn about clicker training, I immediately understood like
the basics.
How does it work?
And and when you know the theory and
you understand the theory, you just know what's
possible.
Don't you?
(32:40):
Isn't it like that for you?
I knew clicker training worked.
So I just I knew I just had
to find the right way to do it
with this with this dog, with this breed,
with this kind of animal for the purpose
that I wanted to train.
So, no, I was I wasn't sure I
(33:02):
could teach a reindeer to sit down in
a sofa.
But that wasn't due to training, more to
reindeer physics.
Right.
And I actually I didn't manage to do
that.
So that's one thing I failed a bit
with.
But but that's it was also a really
nice journey to figure that out.
(33:23):
So the reason that you haven't taught yet,
I don't know if it's physically possible.
The reason you haven't taught yet a reindeer
to sit on a sofa is because of
the physical limitations of a reindeer to sit
on a sofa.
Yeah, it's they don't do they don't do
that movement naturally.
(33:46):
You know, if you teach a horse to
sit, they always when they have been lying
down and get up, they first raise their
front legs and then they are sitting on
their butt for it for a little moment
before they raise the butt.
Right.
So they do it naturally.
Reindeer doesn't do it like that.
They do it the other way.
They raise the butt first and then the
(34:08):
front end.
So, yeah, I have to, of course, it
should be physically possible to just lower the
hind end, but they don't do it.
They never do it naturally.
So you have to, like, create a really
specific bum target or something to tell them,
(34:29):
hey, you can also lower your hind end,
even though you never, ever do it naturally.
So it wasn't a job either to teach
him.
It was just a fun idea.
So it ended up I taught him to
back up to the sofa and and step
up in it with his hind legs.
Yeah, that was that was kind of when
(34:52):
I gave up like, yeah, how much time
should I put into this?
But yeah, who knows?
Maybe maybe I'll pick it up sometimes when
I don't have so many things to do.
Could be a fun task to get back
to.
But trying to figure out this kind of
stuff is like what what keeps me going
(35:13):
and no one did it.
I want to try and do it and
let's see if I can figure it out.
That gives me so much energy to do.
Can I can I teach this reindeer to
do this behavior in this specific environment, for
example?
Is it possible?
And yeah, that's that's what bring the joy
(35:35):
to me.
And also helping people out with with problems,
making their and their dogs lives happier.
It's also it's always reinforcing to help others.
But but figuring out new new behaviors to
to train this is really, really reinforcing for
me.
(35:57):
So you said you have to.
It's really far to travel from where you
are to get to any services.
Yes, it's 200 kilometers to the nearest city
with the hospital.
If you were giving birth, for example, then
you had to go to this this big
city 200 kilometers away.
It takes two and a half hour to
(36:18):
drive there.
So when you're when you're out in your
in your property with your reindeer and your
animals, you're training this reindeer to not sit
on the sofa, to put its back hooves
on a sofa.
Like, how do you how do you brainstorm?
(36:39):
How do you do you have peers to
bounce ideas off?
Are you just by yourself in the environment?
OK, sorry.
Sorry.
That's a misunderstanding.
I wasn't perfectly clear there where I grew
up when I was a child.
We grew up.
That's that's up the mountain to 200 kilometers
(37:00):
to to this big city.
But now I moved where I live now
in Kluk is only 50 kilometers to the
same city.
So I live in between the city of
Östersund and Åre.
So I only have a 45 minute drive
(37:20):
to town, 45 minute drive to Åre.
So I live really central now in a
village with 10 houses.
So I do have neighbors now and I
can even see them from my house.
So it feels really central, even though most
people ask, like, do you live here all
(37:41):
year round?
They think it's like a summer house or
something.
But, yeah, of course, for many people, it's
remote.
For me, it's more central.
And I do have a lot of friends
training animals and many of them live far
away.
And we mostly speak on the phone and
we don't meet that often.
But, yeah, I have a lot of crazy
(38:03):
ideas myself.
And some of the time I also get
inspiration from others.
Absolutely.
You know, I think at least for me,
you end up hanging out mostly with other
people doing the same things, having the same
interests.
So, yeah, most people I hang out with
(38:25):
are animal trainers, for sure.
And so you said a while back that
you went through Morten Egtevit's canine, canis, sorry,
instructor course.
How long ago was that?
Actually, I did that course only last year.
I did the trainer course maybe 15 years
(38:48):
ago from now.
And I wanted to do the instructor course
just the year after, but it was canceled
that year because of something.
And then time went on.
And last year, I wanted to do an
update and did this class.
(39:09):
And it was so much fun.
And even though you train for many years,
you can always get a bit sharper, right?
And, yeah, I did it with my border
collie that I compete in obedience with.
I think we had three second prizes and
you need three first prizes to be a
champion.
And I was a little bit annoyed.
(39:32):
Every competition, something failed.
And I did this course with Morten and
we trained basics the whole winter.
And he got really, really, really fluent on
many behaviors.
That's kind of, you know, Morten's parole to
teach fluency.
And I also love that.
(39:54):
And, yeah, he had a really, really high
fluency on different basic behaviors.
And I think I took five weeks this
spring to put together all the behaviors to
do this obedience competition last level.
(40:15):
And he took the first prizes that he
needed in May.
And he got to be this champion that
I wanted.
And I was so happy about that.
And I think, yeah, really well taught basics
is the key to most success when it
comes to animal training.
And so what you got out of Morten's
(40:38):
instructor course was to spend more time on
the basics.
Yes, I was challenged to spend more time
on the basics because when I have a
task, I really go fully into it.
And one task on this course was to
teach 25 basic behaviors and measure the fluency
(41:03):
on them four times during the year.
And he was already fluent in many of
them when we started the course, but he
wanted to see progression.
And I thought, like, yeah, we have to
be better every time we measure it.
So we did.
And on a few behaviors, Morten said in
the end, yeah, I've never seen such a
high fluency before on the behavior.
(41:26):
And I love the competition.
And we just we were competing against ourselves.
We have to be better than last time
we measured this behavior.
And yeah, that kept us going and motivated
me a lot.
And yeah, we reached really high fluency because
of that.
(41:47):
So if you have been a listener of
this podcast and if you're part of the
Animal Training Academy membership, then you have potentially
watched and engaged with some of Morten's content
and learned about what fluency is.
But for the listeners of this show, all
(42:08):
of us who don't might not know what
we mean when we say fluency or might
have a different definition of fluency.
Can you explain to people what you're talking
about in regards to the sport of collie
and winning these competitions?
And then also define when we say the
basics, what do you mean?
What are the what are the basics?
(42:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
OK, so easy, small behaviors, easy, but small
behaviors like grabbing a dumbbell from the floor
and lift it.
That's one basic for obedience dog, I would
say, grab the dumbbell and lift it.
And to be able to say what kind
(42:49):
of fluency we have on that behavior, grab
the dumbbell and lift it from the floor.
I would count it.
That's what we do in Morten's class.
We count it for one minute.
So I actually just put up a camera
filming the session, filming one minute of training.
And and I count how many times in
(43:09):
one minute can my dog grab the dumbbell
and lift it from the floor?
For example, that's one basic skill.
Another skill is to to come sit in
a competing position, sitting to my left, right.
What do you call that?
Heel?
What would you call that?
Sitting in a heel position?
(43:31):
Yeah, heel position, not competition position.
Yeah.
To to for the dog to come sit
in heel position.
How many times in one minute can you
move to heel position?
So we count these kind of behaviors for
one minute.
And on the class, it says like, OK,
your dog is fluent.
(43:52):
If we can do 14 to 18 repetitions,
one minute in one minute, for example.
So you have like a goal number to
reach.
And then, of course, it depends on what
do your dog look like?
Is it is it physical, physical?
(44:12):
If it's is it possible for this dog
to move physically?
You know, if it's a Newfoundland dog, you
have different opportunities with a Border Collie, of
course.
So you have to look at the physical
aspects.
But but the more the more numbers you
can do in one minute, the higher fluency
(44:32):
you have.
And when the dog.
OK, this is not really scientifically correct, but
I think you get my point.
If the dog doesn't even have to think
about what it's doing, it's just doing.
If it's really fluent behavior, it takes less
effort from the dog to to do the
(44:53):
behavior.
As soon as it swallows the treat, it
just grabs the dumbbell and lift it again.
When it swallowed the treat, the head is
already going down to grab the dumbbell again.
If you have high fluency, if you have
a low fluency, the dog would choose its
food, look around, look at you, look down.
(45:15):
Oh, yeah.
The dumbbells here.
OK, I'm going to grab it and lift
it.
And it takes then you can't do as
many in one minute.
Right.
So a fluent behavior take less effort from
the dog to perform.
That's that's like the bottom line of this
teaching really fluent basic skills.
And then it's easier to put this behavior
together with others to do a full retrieve,
(45:38):
for example, or other challenges in an obedience
class, for example.
Awesome.
And I think we'll link to previous episode
with Morton in the show notes for this,
if you wanted to learn more, because Morton
explains that really well and goes into much
different, much more in different areas of training
(46:04):
around this concept of fluency and precision and
a lot more things.
And a podcast episode we did with him.
So we'll link to that for you, the
listener.
We're going to talk about reindeers in part
two of our conversation.
All this I've been refraining, been biting my
tongue from asking more about reindeers because we
(46:24):
are going to do a whole podcast on
training reindeers.
We're going to do interspecies contrasts and dive
into reindeers and learn what we can from
working with their species and how that's different
and how that's the same as working with
(46:45):
dogs and horses and whatever species you're working
with.
So I'm really excited to do that.
And part two of my conversation will be
this for the end of this episode, though.
I was wondering if you could just share
with everyone listening where they can go online
to find you to see your website, maybe
(47:06):
come and visit if they're in the northern
part of Sweden or to get in touch
if they want to reach out.
Yeah, of course.
My homepage is ullisrudolf.se and there you
can read more about the dog training.
And if you want to come and visit
(47:26):
us, see the reindeer, you can book a
tour there and you can also book a
class where you come and train the reindeer.
And that's really fun.
So all of that, read more about us
or reach out through ullisrudolf.se. Wonderful.
And we will, of course, link to that
(47:47):
in the show notes as well.
We will officially now wrap up part one
of our episode with Ullis here.
This has been so much fun.
So on behalf of myself and everyone listening,
thank you.
We really appreciate you coming on the show
with us today.
Thank you for inviting me, Diane.
It was really fun.
(48:09):
And thank you so much for listening as
well.
This is your host, Ryan Cartlidge, signing off
from this episode of the Animal Training Academy
podcast show.
We hope today's conversation inspired you and equipped
you with new tools for your trainer's toolbox.
Remember, every challenge in training is an opportunity
(48:31):
to learn and sharpen your animal training geekery.
Embrace the rough patches, learn from them and
keep improving.
And don't forget, the path to growing your
skills and expanding your knowledge continues beyond this
episode.
Visit www.atamember.com to join our supportive
(48:55):
membership where you will find a community of
trainers just like you.
Together, we're making a huge positive difference in
the lives of animal and human learners worldwide.
Until next time, keep honing your skills, stay
awesome.
And remember, every interaction with an animal or
(49:17):
human learner is your opportunity to create ripples.
We're here cheering you on every step of
the way.
See you at the next episode.
Welcome to the Animal Training Academy podcast show.
I'm your host, Ryan Carledge, and I'm passionate
about helping you master your animal training skills
using the most positive and least intrusive approaches.
Here at ATA, we understand that navigating the
vast challenges you encounter in training requires a
(00:27):
comprehensive base of knowledge and experience.
It's common to face obstacles and rough patches
on your journey that can leave you feeling
overwhelmed and stressed.
Therefore, since 2015, we have been on a
mission to empower animal training geeks worldwide.
We've aided thousands in developing their skills, expanding
(00:51):
their knowledge, boosting their confidence, and maximising their
positive impact on all the animal and human
learners they work with.
We are excited to do the same for
you.
Simply visit www.atamember.com, join our vibrant
(01:12):
community, and geek out with us.
And of course, in the meantime, enjoy this
free podcast episode as we explore new ways
to help you supercharge your training skills, grow
your knowledge, and build your confidence so that
you can craft a life that positively impacts
(01:32):
every learner you encounter.
We will start today's episode where we will
talk to one Ulrika Andreasen, or Ulis in
short.
Ulis has been practising reward-based training for
(01:55):
25 years and currently works full-time as
a teacher and trainer, specialising in dogs, horses,
and reindeer.
She has demonstrated the power of clicker training
in some unique areas, including training the first
Labrador to become a Swedish ski drawing champion,
winning two gold medals at the Swedish National
(02:18):
Sled Dog Championship.
Twelve years ago, she also began training reindeer
for film and events and has since participated
in several movies, performing twice at the Sweden
International Horse Show and showcased her skills at
the opening ceremonies of the world champions in
biathlon and alpine skiing.
(02:38):
Today, Ulis trains hunting dogs not to hunt
reindeer using a redirection technique known as tattling.
She also offers courses in gundog retrieving, obedience,
and puppy training, while continuing to train her
reindeer for tourist events, films, and live performances.
In her spare time, she practices academic riding
with her two horses.
(02:59):
So without further ado, it's my very great
pleasure to welcome Ulis to the show today,
who's patiently waiting by.
Ulis, thank you so much for taking the
time to come and hang out with me
at Animal Training Academy.
Thank you so much for inviting me, Ryan.
Well, your appearance on our show comes at
(03:20):
the recommendations of multiple trainers who are highly
skilled and who I value a lot because
of their skill and their knowledge.
And consequently, I appreciate their opinions.
So great gratitude to Morten Ektevert and Eva
Berthelsen for recommending you as a fabulous guest
(03:43):
on our show.
So I can't wait to dive in and
learn about your story, about your journey.
Ulis, we love hearing people's behavioral odysseys, as
we like to call them on this show.
So could you take the listeners back to
where you started on your behavioral odyssey, where
(04:03):
you first got started training and learning about
positive reinforcement animal training?
Sure.
It's maybe a bit different story.
I grew up in the northern part of
Sweden, up on a little mountain.
So I had quite a distance to meet
friends.
(04:24):
And mostly I hang out with my family's
hunting dogs.
And we had always a few moose hunting
dogs.
That's quite a big dog searching the forest
for moose.
And whenever they find the moose, they start
barking at it.
And it's quite independent, brave dogs.
(04:45):
They can just run around in the forest
for themselves for 24 hours.
That's not a problem.
And these were my friends, and I started
to train them.
I saw movies like Beethoven and Lassie when
I was a child.
And all I can think about was, how
(05:06):
did they teach the dogs all those tricks
that they did in the movies?
And I knew that when I grew up,
I wanted to be an animal trainer, and
I wanted to teach the animals funny stuff
for movies.
So I did my best with those hunting
dogs.
I taught them tricks, and we went dog
sledding.
And I made agility courses and stuff like
(05:29):
that.
And I asked people around me that had
dogs how to train them.
And there was quite a few sled dog
persons around me at that time.
And they said, yeah, you have to show
them who's the boss.
You have to be the leader.
(05:51):
Tell them who's in charge.
And I was like, yeah, how do I
do that?
And they said, it's important that you eat
before them.
And if they behave bad, you should just
bite them in the ear, and then they'll
know who's the boss.
And I'm not proud to tell you, but
when I was like 10 years old, I
(06:12):
bit a dog in the ear.
And of course, he reacted quite strongly, like,
what are you doing?
And he threw his head up and punched
my nose.
So when I was coming home from that
tour in the forest, my dog had a
hurt ear.
And blood was running from my nose.
(06:35):
And my mother was like, what have you
done?
Yeah, don't ask.
And I thought, for sure, this is how
it's done.
This is no fun.
But just a bit after that, another dog
sledding person handed me a book that he
(06:56):
got from somewhere.
And he's like, I'm not going to read
this book.
Do you want it?
And it said, Clicker Training Your Dog by
Anders Hallgren.
He was one of the first in Sweden
to bring clicker training to this country.
And I read the book.
And then I knew that, okay, this is
how I want to train animals.
(07:17):
I was sure.
And from that day on, I didn't bite
any dogs.
And I started to say no.
And I began the journey of clicker training
on my own, like 14 years old, maybe.
Still up on that mountain, we didn't have
any club or something where you could go
(07:41):
and meet other people training dogs.
So I read the book and I did
my best.
And I had my own dog, a moose
hunting dog at this time.
She was called Trixie.
And when I started to clicker train her,
we also started to win competitions.
I wanted to do obedience training.
(08:04):
And I had been competing for a few
times, but we always got the second prize
on these competitions.
And I wanted to have a first prize
because then you were moved up to the
next class or next grade.
I don't know how you say it.
Next level.
And after we started to clicker train, we
(08:26):
started to win.
And that was, of course, really reinforcing for
me.
And yeah, since then, I just tried to
be better and better.
And that led me to Mårten Egtved's clicker
training education.
And after that, I also did his clicker
(08:47):
instructor course.
And yeah, that taught me a lot and
was probably the biggest moments for me to
be a better clicker trainer, to do his
classes.
I think they've done a lot for Sweden
(09:08):
and the north.
And it's a really, really good education that
they have.
So that was kind of how it started
for me.
And on the road, I always enjoyed trying
to motivate different animals to do different stuff
that they are not like originally bred to
(09:28):
do, like training obedience with that hunting dog.
When I got my Labrador retriever, I think
I competed with him in like eight disciplines.
And one of them was ski during where
he ran for 10 kilometers, pulling me on
skis.
And as Labradors are not known to be
(09:49):
great sled dogs, I can tell you that.
But I knew that motivation is the only
thing required.
And yeah, I was reinforcing him for running
fast for just a few hundred meters at
(10:10):
first with a big, big Christmas feeling in
the end.
And just like back change it to get
longer and longer and longer.
And in the end, he ran 10 kilometers,
full speed passing everyone else.
And I knew if he do his best,
(10:30):
he will be faster than German shepherds and
other dogs that was just taking it easy,
not doing their best.
And yeah, he became the best.
And yeah, it was a really interesting journey
for me to do that with him.
So I think there's going to be people
(10:51):
listening to this podcast and including me before
I jumped on to record with you.
Googling during not quite understanding what we're talking
about.
I think I think during is a is
a unique word at least or sport to
(11:11):
your area of the world.
And now I'm not sure if that's our
English word skijoring and because sled dogging dog
sledding is more like riding a sleigh.
Right.
And here we go on skis with the
dog and then it's like dog sledding, but
(11:33):
on skis with only one dog.
OK, so along the flat or up and
down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a flat up and it's not like
downhill skiing with the dog, but yeah, on
the flat.
So the dog pulls your weight a little
bit depends on how good of a skier
you are.
You have cross-country skis on.
(11:56):
And so this is a sport traditionally done
with German shepherds.
OK, yeah, this is OK.
This was a bit deeper.
I didn't think about that.
This is so special to this area, but
maybe it is.
OK, there's a few classes and then for
(12:16):
one group of dogs, there's only huskies.
OK, Siberian huskies and another group for German
shorthair.
That's one of our bird hunting dogs.
That's really, really fast.
They have their own group as well.
And then in the third group is all
other breeds.
No Siberian huskies, no German shorthair, but all
(12:38):
other breeds.
So if you have a Labrador, you compete
against, yeah, German shepherd, but also Kofa, Dalmatians,
you name it.
Any other dog breed in the country.
Yeah, maybe there's lots of people listening to
this podcast who are like, right.
And we know what Juring is.
(12:58):
I don't know.
I didn't know what Juring was.
So it's new to me.
So you had a Labrador and you said
that this was the first Labrador to become
a champion.
Was it the first Labrador to compete or
just the first Labrador to become a champion?
To become a champion, I think there was
one Labrador before us, a female dog that
(13:21):
competed.
But this was the first Labrador to be
a champion, if I'm right.
After that, we had a few more, but
you know, you always have to, someone has
to go first, right?
Yes, that's what I was thinking.
So there's Juring, which you've all learned about
(13:45):
what Juring is, and how did you get
drawn into wanting to compete in Juring?
Is it just because it was part of
your upbringing and part of your...
Yeah, I trained a lot of sled dogs
through the years and helped people.
You know, people live with 50 dogs in
(14:05):
the forest and whenever they want to go
on a vacation, someone has to stay there.
And that was kind of my speciality when
I was 14, 15 years old.
I lived at the homes and took care
of 50 dogs when these people wanted to
go on a vacation.
And I competed a bit with their dogs
(14:26):
and so on.
A relative of mine also had sled dogs
and I helped out there a lot.
So I was kind of in that sport
already since I was young.
Well, you say, you know, people live with
like 50 dogs in the forest.
I don't know that, because in New Zealand,
I don't think people live with like 50
(14:48):
dogs in the forest.
I think that is, again, because you're talking
sled dogs, right?
Yes, sled dogs.
So some people have 50 dogs whose job
is...
Each individual dog's job is to be a
(15:09):
sled dog?
Yes, they are pulling a sleigh.
And few of these people are working with
tourism.
Then you need 50 dogs.
Where tourists come and drive their own sled
with dogs up the mountain for a week
or so.
But there's also people, quite a lot from
the Netherlands and Germany, moving up here, buying
(15:29):
a house.
And they might have somewhere around 20 and
30 dogs.
And they might just go on sled dog
drives for fun and for competition.
They don't work with it.
But, you know, if you're competing in a
long distance sled dog competition, you can have
(15:51):
a team of eight dogs.
But then you need eight dogs in full
condition.
And you always have a few older dogs.
You have a few limp dogs.
You have puppies that you want to compete
with in the future.
So if you need a good team of
eight dogs, you always end up having like
(16:13):
20.
That's how it is.
And it's hard to go on vacation with
20 dogs only.
So you need someone staying at the kennel
taking care of them.
And it's cheap with 14-year-old girls
that like dogs, you know.
Yeah, I mean, those kinds of opportunities are
available.
(16:34):
So that's who you hire.
We normally tell people to go and volunteer
at the shelter.
But I imagine that's a great opportunity to
go and work with a lot of dogs.
Yeah, because we don't have any shelters up
here.
So help people.
Yeah, it is.
(16:54):
And help people understand that one of the
things I love about this show is finding
individuals like yourself and showcasing the unique places
we live in the world, the unique relationships
we have with animals and the unique things
we train with animals in different parts of
(17:15):
the world.
But the glue that holds us all together
is we're all singing the same song from
the same song sheet, Positive Reinforcement and those
ethical and humane ways of training.
So I love that you're there doing what
we're doing with your moose and your 50
(17:36):
sleigh dogs.
Explain to everyone where exactly you are.
Because, I mean, I think when people think
of Sweden, they think of maybe Stockholm or
other large cities.
But you're up in the snow, up in
the mountains.
Yeah.
OK, so Sweden is a really long country.
(17:56):
And actually, I live close to the middle,
but it's considered the north.
But the north is everything from the middle,
not from the middle even.
The lowest third of Sweden is considered like
Sweden.
And then the two thirds above that's in
the north.
You know, there's much fewer cities and more
(18:20):
wood.
Forest, forest, forest, forest.
And yeah, I grew up in the middle
of the forest.
We have a good winter.
We have one meter of snow.
And yeah, we have quite a lot of
sled dogs up here because of all the
snow.
So it's big.
We have a lot of sled dogs.
We also have a lot of moose.
So those moose hunting dogs and sled dogs
(18:42):
are really common around here.
And I live close to Åre, which is
quite a famous ski resort.
Maybe not in New Zealand, but in Sweden
anyway.
And yeah, snowmobiling, downhill skiing.
Yeah, that's also big sports around here.
Yeah, that's all very cool.
I didn't realize moose were there.
(19:05):
I was thinking about moose being in Canada.
So I'm learning.
We have a lot of moose and also
bear.
And so you grew up around all of
these sled dogs.
And as a 14-year-old, you were
looking after large groups of working dogs for
(19:26):
people as they went on their holidays.
And you got into drawing and you saw
what was involved.
And you wanted to do it and you
had a Labrador.
So that was a dog that you had
to do it with?
Or you went like, no, you guys aren't
using Labradors.
I'm going to do it with a Labrador.
No, okay, this is a bit silly, but
(19:48):
I'll tell you anyway.
I wanted to do obedience training with a
Labrador.
And I wanted to do, how would you
say, tracking and searching for people.
That's also different competitions you can do in
Sweden.
Searching people, tracking people.
And I wanted to do that.
So I bought this Labrador.
(20:09):
And then a friend of mine said, oh,
but the Labrador, is that even a real
dog to do training and competitions with?
Aren't they quite lazy just wanting to lie
down on the couch eating cinnamon buns?
And then I got a bit annoyed, you
(20:30):
know.
And it just came out of me.
I said, no, this Labrador will be a
sled dog, competition dog.
And I was like, why did I say
that?
I just did because I was like, yeah,
you'll see.
(20:50):
And then I had to do it, you
know.
But I love to go skiing with dogs.
I've done that since I was like five
years old.
And we trained the hunting dogs by, yeah,
doing ski during.
So I like to do that ever since
I was a child.
And I think it's really good physical training
(21:11):
for every dog.
So I've done it with all my dogs
forever just for keeping them in shape.
But now I said, yeah, he'll do competitions
as well.
And, yeah, that's how it started, actually.
Okay.
And so tell us about what you learned
(21:31):
from that, because there's this.
And how would you describe that breed now
in terms of during?
Would you be like, yeah, yeah, they're fine
during dogs?
Or would you be like, no, maybe get
a different breed?
Like, how does that influence your thought about
breeds and training and individuals?
I think if you want to win competitions
(21:54):
in ski during, Labrador is not like the
breed you'll pick.
But I don't think there's any specific breed.
Okay.
German Shorthair, most of them, they run and
they run and they run and they run.
Most of the people wanting to compete in
ski during, they buy a German Shorthair.
(22:15):
Okay.
But if you have another breed, you can
pick any breed.
They might like to run, but most of
them are not motivated to run their best
kilometer by kilometer by kilometer.
And if they, because the problem is on
the competition, it's always fun to run in
(22:38):
the beginning.
But then you find another dog on the
track.
And most dogs is like, oh, hey, your
friend.
Hello.
Can I run beside you and hang out?
And maybe it's a good luck getting a
female dog as well.
And, you know, they stop up.
They start to trot.
They interact with the other dog instead of
(22:59):
focusing on running.
Right.
And then they don't run as fast as
they can.
And I knew this.
And I thought if he just runs his
best, he will be better than the other
dogs that have better opportunities to run fast
for a long time.
(23:19):
If he just do his best, he will
still be better than them.
And if he just, if he just have
the motivation to do it, like that's the
only key that I need.
So I just built it really small, run
full speed, 200 meters.
And in the end, I often had a
(23:43):
moose leg.
Sorry, maybe this is a bit gross for
other people.
But, you know, since it's minus degrees up
here all winter, meat doesn't get rotten if
it's outside.
And in the end of the moose hunt,
which they chop off the legs and like
(24:04):
throw them away or give them to dogs.
And dogs love to chew on moose legs.
All right.
So I had a moose leg frozen on
the balcony in my apartment and I brought
it to the ski during training.
And I had it in the end, like
when he finished his lap.
Would you say it like that?
Yes.
(24:25):
Yeah.
When he finished the lap for that day,
he had his moose leg in the end
of the course and he could have it
for 15 minutes.
And he was such a happy dog.
And that just made him motivated to run
longer and longer and to pass other dogs
on this lap and just keep going.
You're soon in the end and there's your
(24:47):
moose leg.
So I basically built this competition dog on
a moose leg in the end, right?
Reinforcement is everything, as always.
Of course, you always have to make sure
your dog is physically strong enough to do
it, of course.
(25:08):
And he was always, during his whole life,
fit for running 10 kilometers.
But if they're physically well enough trained, it's
all about motivation.
So in this competition you entered with this
Labrador, there were other breeds that are genetically
(25:32):
predisposed to do the behavior that is wanted
by the humans.
Yes.
But what can out-compete that?
What can out-compete a breed that is
designed to do the behavior that is being
(25:52):
competed?
What can out-compete a not as well
-trained individual from that breed as a well
-trained individual from a different breed?
Yes.
Is that what you wanted to show?
Yes.
That Labradors are not lazy.
If you want it, you can do it,
right?
(26:13):
And so when you won the competition, were
people like, okay, cool, she won the competition?
Or do you feel that that impacted people's
beliefs and false beliefs?
People that know me, I don't think that
(26:34):
they thought it was as crazy as going
to obedience competitions with the moose hunting dog.
But people that know me is like, yeah,
it doesn't matter what thought she gets in
her head.
She's going to do it, you know.
But probably people don't come up to you
(26:54):
like, what did you do?
I think it absolutely gave people a different
perspective, but you have to just show it's
possible.
And when you were doing it, because you
said that it kind of just came out
of your mouth and then you were like,
oh, my God, why did I say that?
(27:16):
Did you experience after that conviction?
Did you know that you were going to
do this?
Or were you like, oh, my God, can
I actually do this?
Oh, yeah.
No, I knew I could do it.
That's always my I know it's possible.
I just have to find the way.
(27:38):
And after doing that, it was like, OK,
because I was always motivated to to train
stuff that I love to train stuff that
no one else trained before.
So I can figure out if it's possible
and how is it possible?
And sure, a few things I'm not sure
if they are possible about this.
(27:59):
I was like, sure, it's you just have
to train this dog and you can do
it.
But then and it was the same thing
later on when I when I got back,
got back to this idea about training animals
for movies.
That was my goal since I was seven
years old.
Right.
And I actually wanted to buy moose, but
(28:21):
moose is a wild animal in Sweden.
So you're not allowed to train them and
ride them, for example, that I wanted to
do.
So I tried to to catch a moose
when I was 12 years old, but I
didn't manage.
And later on, when I wanted to buy
one, I understood that you can't ride them
(28:42):
and you're not allowed in Sweden.
And then I was like, OK, then I
don't want the moose because I want to
train animals, you know.
And I came up with the idea that
reindeer are tame animals in Sweden.
We don't have any wild reindeer.
And if it's a tame animal, then you're
allowed to train it.
And I googled around and I couldn't find
(29:04):
any trick trained reindeer in the whole world
at that time.
And I thought if I'm the first person
to have trick trained reindeer, it should be
possible to work with it a little bit
anyway, since they have such a strong symbolic
value for the northern part of Sweden, the
mountain area and Christmas, of course.
(29:27):
So and I knew at this time I'm
such a good clicker trainer.
I just have to make a good training
plan and go out to train those reindeers.
Of course, it's possible.
You just have to like figure out how
to do it the best way.
And then I bought reindeer and I never
hesitated.
(29:47):
It was going to be possible.
But of course, you have to with every
new animal you train, you have to figure
out like, how do I do it the
best way with with this kind of animal?
And for sure, I wrote a lot of
training plans.
I went out to train and then I
sat down and and edited them and added
(30:10):
criteria and went out to train again.
And on it went like this for four
years.
But but I never hesitated.
It could be done.
And where do you feel like that confidence?
And I'll share why I'm asking this question
(30:32):
before I ask it.
Because self-doubt and a term that gets
used a lot is an imposter syndrome is
something that people talk about a lot and
that they experience.
And it's quite novel, I think, and unique
to have someone sharing that they're so confident
(30:54):
in these things and you've gone and done
these things.
You had every right to be confident.
You achieved what you said you were going
to achieve.
I'm just curious because you've had such a
different upbringing and you live in such a
different part of the world and you've got
your own culture there.
I'm just curious, where do you feel that
(31:15):
that self-belief and self-belief and that
confidence came from in you to look at
something and just be like, yeah, I can
do this.
No worries.
I just got to figure out how.
OK, so that in the area where I
come from, it's a really long way to
any service.
It's so far that if you need something
(31:37):
done, you do it yourself.
That's kind of the mentality.
And it's really ambitious people that live there
that figure out how to do stuff, help
each other out and whatever has to be
done, they do it themselves.
So I'm really happy that I grew up
in an environment like that.
And I could tell my dad like, oh,
I need a ladder to go up my
(31:59):
little tree house.
I don't have any ladder.
Do you have one?
And he's like, no, I don't have one.
But let's go out and build one.
And he followed me out and he taught
me how to build a ladder.
We built it and then I had it
like that.
It was with everything.
I need this.
Yeah, let's go out and build it.
(32:20):
So I think that's one part of it.
And then when I when I started to
learn about clicker training, I immediately understood like
the basics.
How does it work?
And and when you know the theory and
you understand the theory, you just know what's
possible.
Don't you?
(32:40):
Isn't it like that for you?
I knew clicker training worked.
So I just I knew I just had
to find the right way to do it
with this with this dog, with this breed,
with this kind of animal for the purpose
that I wanted to train.
So, no, I was I wasn't sure I
(33:02):
could teach a reindeer to sit down in
a sofa.
But that wasn't due to training, more to
reindeer physics.
Right.
And I actually I didn't manage to do
that.
So that's one thing I failed a bit
with.
But but that's it was also a really
nice journey to figure that out.
(33:23):
So the reason that you haven't taught yet,
I don't know if it's physically possible.
The reason you haven't taught yet a reindeer
to sit on a sofa is because of
the physical limitations of a reindeer to sit
on a sofa.
Yeah, it's they don't do they don't do
that movement naturally.
(33:46):
You know, if you teach a horse to
sit, they always when they have been lying
down and get up, they first raise their
front legs and then they are sitting on
their butt for it for a little moment
before they raise the butt.
Right.
So they do it naturally.
Reindeer doesn't do it like that.
They do it the other way.
They raise the butt first and then the
(34:08):
front end.
So, yeah, I have to, of course, it
should be physically possible to just lower the
hind end, but they don't do it.
They never do it naturally.
So you have to, like, create a really
specific bum target or something to tell them,
(34:29):
hey, you can also lower your hind end,
even though you never, ever do it naturally.
So it wasn't a job either to teach
him.
It was just a fun idea.
So it ended up I taught him to
back up to the sofa and and step
up in it with his hind legs.
Yeah, that was that was kind of when
(34:52):
I gave up like, yeah, how much time
should I put into this?
But yeah, who knows?
Maybe maybe I'll pick it up sometimes when
I don't have so many things to do.
Could be a fun task to get back
to.
But trying to figure out this kind of
stuff is like what what keeps me going
(35:13):
and no one did it.
I want to try and do it and
let's see if I can figure it out.
That gives me so much energy to do.
Can I can I teach this reindeer to
do this behavior in this specific environment, for
example?
Is it possible?
And yeah, that's that's what bring the joy
(35:35):
to me.
And also helping people out with with problems,
making their and their dogs lives happier.
It's also it's always reinforcing to help others.
But but figuring out new new behaviors to
to train this is really, really reinforcing for
me.
(35:57):
So you said you have to.
It's really far to travel from where you
are to get to any services.
Yes, it's 200 kilometers to the nearest city
with the hospital.
If you were giving birth, for example, then
you had to go to this this big
city 200 kilometers away.
It takes two and a half hour to
(36:18):
drive there.
So when you're when you're out in your
in your property with your reindeer and your
animals, you're training this reindeer to not sit
on the sofa, to put its back hooves
on a sofa.
Like, how do you how do you brainstorm?
(36:39):
How do you do you have peers to
bounce ideas off?
Are you just by yourself in the environment?
OK, sorry.
Sorry.
That's a misunderstanding.
I wasn't perfectly clear there where I grew
up when I was a child.
We grew up.
That's that's up the mountain to 200 kilometers
(37:00):
to to this big city.
But now I moved where I live now
in Kluk is only 50 kilometers to the
same city.
So I live in between the city of
Östersund and Åre.
So I only have a 45 minute drive
(37:20):
to town, 45 minute drive to Åre.
So I live really central now in a
village with 10 houses.
So I do have neighbors now and I
can even see them from my house.
So it feels really central, even though most
people ask, like, do you live here all
(37:41):
year round?
They think it's like a summer house or
something.
But, yeah, of course, for many people, it's
remote.
For me, it's more central.
And I do have a lot of friends
training animals and many of them live far
away.
And we mostly speak on the phone and
we don't meet that often.
But, yeah, I have a lot of crazy
(38:03):
ideas myself.
And some of the time I also get
inspiration from others.
Absolutely.
You know, I think at least for me,
you end up hanging out mostly with other
people doing the same things, having the same
interests.
So, yeah, most people I hang out with
(38:25):
are animal trainers, for sure.
And so you said a while back that
you went through Morten Egtevit's canine, canis, sorry,
instructor course.
How long ago was that?
Actually, I did that course only last year.
I did the trainer course maybe 15 years
(38:48):
ago from now.
And I wanted to do the instructor course
just the year after, but it was canceled
that year because of something.
And then time went on.
And last year, I wanted to do an
update and did this class.
(39:09):
And it was so much fun.
And even though you train for many years,
you can always get a bit sharper, right?
And, yeah, I did it with my border
collie that I compete in obedience with.
I think we had three second prizes and
you need three first prizes to be a
champion.
And I was a little bit annoyed.
(39:32):
Every competition, something failed.
And I did this course with Morten and
we trained basics the whole winter.
And he got really, really, really fluent on
many behaviors.
That's kind of, you know, Morten's parole to
teach fluency.
And I also love that.
(39:54):
And, yeah, he had a really, really high
fluency on different basic behaviors.
And I think I took five weeks this
spring to put together all the behaviors to
do this obedience competition last level.
(40:15):
And he took the first prizes that he
needed in May.
And he got to be this champion that
I wanted.
And I was so happy about that.
And I think, yeah, really well taught basics
is the key to most success when it
comes to animal training.
And so what you got out of Morten's
(40:38):
instructor course was to spend more time on
the basics.
Yes, I was challenged to spend more time
on the basics because when I have a
task, I really go fully into it.
And one task on this course was to
teach 25 basic behaviors and measure the fluency
(41:03):
on them four times during the year.
And he was already fluent in many of
them when we started the course, but he
wanted to see progression.
And I thought, like, yeah, we have to
be better every time we measure it.
So we did.
And on a few behaviors, Morten said in
the end, yeah, I've never seen such a
high fluency before on the behavior.
(41:26):
And I love the competition.
And we just we were competing against ourselves.
We have to be better than last time
we measured this behavior.
And yeah, that kept us going and motivated
me a lot.
And yeah, we reached really high fluency because
of that.
(41:47):
So if you have been a listener of
this podcast and if you're part of the
Animal Training Academy membership, then you have potentially
watched and engaged with some of Morten's content
and learned about what fluency is.
But for the listeners of this show, all
(42:08):
of us who don't might not know what
we mean when we say fluency or might
have a different definition of fluency.
Can you explain to people what you're talking
about in regards to the sport of collie
and winning these competitions?
And then also define when we say the
basics, what do you mean?
What are the what are the basics?
(42:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
OK, so easy, small behaviors, easy, but small
behaviors like grabbing a dumbbell from the floor
and lift it.
That's one basic for obedience dog, I would
say, grab the dumbbell and lift it.
And to be able to say what kind
(42:49):
of fluency we have on that behavior, grab
the dumbbell and lift it from the floor.
I would count it.
That's what we do in Morten's class.
We count it for one minute.
So I actually just put up a camera
filming the session, filming one minute of training.
And and I count how many times in
(43:09):
one minute can my dog grab the dumbbell
and lift it from the floor?
For example, that's one basic skill.
Another skill is to to come sit in
a competing position, sitting to my left, right.
What do you call that?
Heel?
What would you call that?
Sitting in a heel position?
(43:31):
Yeah, heel position, not competition position.
Yeah.
To to for the dog to come sit
in heel position.
How many times in one minute can you
move to heel position?
So we count these kind of behaviors for
one minute.
And on the class, it says like, OK,
your dog is fluent.
(43:52):
If we can do 14 to 18 repetitions,
one minute in one minute, for example.
So you have like a goal number to
reach.
And then, of course, it depends on what
do your dog look like?
Is it is it physical, physical?
(44:12):
If it's is it possible for this dog
to move physically?
You know, if it's a Newfoundland dog, you
have different opportunities with a Border Collie, of
course.
So you have to look at the physical
aspects.
But but the more the more numbers you
can do in one minute, the higher fluency
(44:32):
you have.
And when the dog.
OK, this is not really scientifically correct, but
I think you get my point.
If the dog doesn't even have to think
about what it's doing, it's just doing.
If it's really fluent behavior, it takes less
effort from the dog to to do the
(44:53):
behavior.
As soon as it swallows the treat, it
just grabs the dumbbell and lift it again.
When it swallowed the treat, the head is
already going down to grab the dumbbell again.
If you have high fluency, if you have
a low fluency, the dog would choose its
food, look around, look at you, look down.
(45:15):
Oh, yeah.
The dumbbells here.
OK, I'm going to grab it and lift
it.
And it takes then you can't do as
many in one minute.
Right.
So a fluent behavior take less effort from
the dog to perform.
That's that's like the bottom line of this
teaching really fluent basic skills.
And then it's easier to put this behavior
together with others to do a full retrieve,
(45:38):
for example, or other challenges in an obedience
class, for example.
Awesome.
And I think we'll link to previous episode
with Morton in the show notes for this,
if you wanted to learn more, because Morton
explains that really well and goes into much
different, much more in different areas of training
(46:04):
around this concept of fluency and precision and
a lot more things.
And a podcast episode we did with him.
So we'll link to that for you, the
listener.
We're going to talk about reindeers in part
two of our conversation.
All this I've been refraining, been biting my
tongue from asking more about reindeers because we
(46:24):
are going to do a whole podcast on
training reindeers.
We're going to do interspecies contrasts and dive
into reindeers and learn what we can from
working with their species and how that's different
and how that's the same as working with
(46:45):
dogs and horses and whatever species you're working
with.
So I'm really excited to do that.
And part two of my conversation will be
this for the end of this episode, though.
I was wondering if you could just share
with everyone listening where they can go online
to find you to see your website, maybe
(47:06):
come and visit if they're in the northern
part of Sweden or to get in touch
if they want to reach out.
Yeah, of course.
My homepage is ullisrudolf.se and there you
can read more about the dog training.
And if you want to come and visit
(47:26):
us, see the reindeer, you can book a
tour there and you can also book a
class where you come and train the reindeer.
And that's really fun.
So all of that, read more about us
or reach out through ullisrudolf.se. Wonderful.
And we will, of course, link to that
(47:47):
in the show notes as well.
We will officially now wrap up part one
of our episode with Ullis here.
This has been so much fun.
So on behalf of myself and everyone listening,
thank you.
We really appreciate you coming on the show
with us today.
Thank you for inviting me, Diane.
It was really fun.
(48:09):
And thank you so much for listening as
well.
This is your host, Ryan Cartlidge, signing off
from this episode of the Animal Training Academy
podcast show.
We hope today's conversation inspired you and equipped
you with new tools for your trainer's toolbox.
Remember, every challenge in training is an opportunity
(48:31):
to learn and sharpen your animal training geekery.
Embrace the rough patches, learn from them and
keep improving.
And don't forget, the path to growing your
skills and expanding your knowledge continues beyond this
episode.
Visit www.atamember.com to join our supportive
(48:55):
membership where you will find a community of
trainers just like you.
Together, we're making a huge positive difference in
the lives of animal and human learners worldwide.
Until next time, keep honing your skills, stay
awesome.
And remember, every interaction with an animal or
(49:17):
human learner is your opportunity to create ripples.
We're here cheering you on every step of
the way.
See you at the next episode.
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Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com