September 22, 2025 • 55 mins
A very special episode of 'At Home with Kelly and Tiffany,' we're chatting with doula and bereavement advocate Ryley Chestnut. We discuss her personal experience with loss and how it inspires her to support other families going through similar hardships. Find hope, emotional support and tangible tools for walking through one of life's hardest journeys.
00:00 Introduction to Kelly and Tiffany's Holistic Health Podcast
01:09 Interview with Doula Ryley Chestnut
02:51 Ryley's Personal Bereavement Story
05:28 The Role of Bereavement Doulas
15:10 Navigating Provider Support
21:48 Labor of Hope and Support Systems
28:32 Advocating for Monitoring and C-Section Decision
30:18 The Birth and 51 Minutes of Life
31:22 Support and Memories
33:23 Navigating Stillbirth and Bereavement Birth
37:15 Empowering Birth Choices
40:44 Community Support and Showing Up
46:45 Resources and Support for Loss
50:02 Hope and Moving Forward
54:26 Conclusion and Ways to Support the Show
Links We Chat About
Our Monthly Membership
Our Weekly Newsletter
Our Childbirth Education Course, use code RADIANT10 for 10% off
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast to catch every episode. Follow us on Instagram for extra education and antics between episodes at: @beautifulonemidwifery
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to at Home with Kellyand Tiffany, where we share
powerful tools, excitingeducation, and relatable views
about holistic health,physiological birth, and
thriving in the female body.
We are home birth midwives insunny San Diego.
Passionate about thealternatives that give women
control and confidence inhealth, in birth and in life.
(00:24):
We've poured a lot of love intocreating very in depth and high
value offerings.
A monthly membership, aphysiological birth course, and
holistic guides for the womenwho really want to dive all the
way in.
But this podcast.
We want to bring zero costinformation about health and
natural birth and make theseimportant topics accessible
(00:46):
always.
Your support of the show is alsozero cost and means everything
to us.
When you leave a review, sharean episode and join our
newsletter.
It really helps us keep thisspace open, ad free and full of
honest, valuable conversations.
Now let's dive into today'sshow.
Tiffany (01:10):
Welcome back to at Home with Tiffany and Kelly.
I'm Tiffany, and Kelly is notpresent on this exact episode
because I got to interview adoula and friend of ours, Riley
Chestnut.
And so you are about to hear aninterview with Riley where we
(01:30):
talk about her own experiencewith.
Bereavement in a pregnancy ofhers and how that has inspired
her to work in her own communityin Dallas, Texas, providing
bereavement support and doulaservices and just an all out
advocate for supporting familieswho were walking through
(01:51):
pregnancy loss and infant loss.
And so it's going to be awonderful interview full of so
much.
Really good.
Advocacy information, but alsoit is a message for those of us
who will never experience thistype of loss in our own lives
because it's gonna connect us tothe mothers around us who will
(02:14):
or who have.
And so I hope that all of youlisten.
Who feel like it's an okayconversation to get into.
You are sure to be inspired andto learn a lot, and I'm excited
to bring it to you, especiallynow as October is national
pregnancy and infant loss month.
And so we get to kind of kickoff that bit of recognition with
(02:40):
a conversation like this that Ihope just basically unifies us
as women and mothers.
I hope you enjoy.
Ri, thank you so much for comingon the podcast.
I'm very excited for the superserious thing that we get to
discuss today.
But you and I have had some funbefore this podcast, which is
(03:04):
why I asked you to come on, andI, I'm not sure if we'll make
light of this topic necessarily,but there's a couple things we
have discussed that you havemade me laugh about and I'm used
to being the one, cracking thejokes.
So say hello to our audience andthen I'm going to, and then I'm
gonna tell our audience whatyou, what you have cracked me up
(03:27):
about recently.
Ryley Chestnut (03:27):
I am Riley.
I am a doula, childbirtheducator, body ready method
professional, and a homeschoolmom and a wife and follower of
Christ.
Tiffany (03:38):
Beautiful, and I'm so excited to have you on the show
to share your expertise in a lotof areas, but you and I, and
like Kelly too, we had a fastfriendship over just having so
many of those pieces in common.
But there is one thing that youdo not abide in.
You tell us what it is.
Ryley Chestnut (03:59):
Tiffany.
It's the socks during sleep.
I can't do it.
You know, I just, I live inTexas, it's hot.
even in the dead of winter, Ican't do it.
You can't convince me.
I'm sorry.
There's no amount of researchthat will tell me that I gotta
do it.
Sorry.
Tiffany (04:16):
So for those of you listening who feel sentimentally
similar.
Really preferring not to takethis sock advice.
You can be, you guys can be teamdoula Reilly.
Ryley Chestnut (04:29):
Team.
No sock.
Tiffany (04:31):
It is a, a building a team, a growing team, a growing
force.
I will not wear those tell, tellme what the hashtag is and
we'll, we'll, we'll get itgoing.
But we do, but we do get to talkabout serious things today, and
I thank you for coming and beinga part of this discussion.
And I know I'm gonna say it amillion times during this
(04:55):
interview, but we don't talkabout this topic enough.
We don't talk about bereavement,we don't talk about loss.
We're getting better at talkingabout miscarriage, but.
Stillbirth and infant loss islike still such a really
difficult thing to discuss, andI'm so thankful that there's
(05:17):
women like you out there who arewilling to have the discussion
and want to use.
The discussion to bring thetopic, you know, to the
forefront.
So tell, share a little bitabout your own background and
why the topic of bereavement isso important for women who even
(05:39):
have an experienced loss.
Ryley Chestnut (05:40):
much for having Me too, Tiffany.
I know this is one of thosetopics that I agree.
I think we have come a long way.
And we are talking more and moreabout this.
I see it in my childbirthclasses with, you know, women
that are pregnant with healthybabies, sharing their
miscarriages in an open roomfull of other women that I don't
(06:03):
think 20 years ago we would'vetalked about it.
And my story is different.
So my husband and I met and gotmarried when I was 17.
We did not have our first childuntil I was 22 and had my first
at 22.
I have a few spine and so Ifound out when I went in to have
(06:24):
his induction that I couldn'thave an epidural so had an
unmedicated birth.
You know, I joked thatunmedicated birth chose me
because there was no other wayto do it, and then had my second
baby at home.
And then our third child, we didgenetic testing at the beginning
purely because I wanted to knowif was a boy or a girl, and that
(06:49):
was it, because in my head.
I had never thought that thiswould be a part of my story, and
her genetic testing came backbeautiful and perfect, and we
found out we were having alittle girl after two boys, and
went to our 19 week anatomyultrasound with our two boys and
(07:09):
found out that she hadanencephaly, which is the
absence of the skull, and it isone of those conditions deemed
incompatible with life.
And so at that appointment, youknow, we were, we were told
almost immediately before weknew her diagnosis that we could
terminate.
And I looked at the midwife andI said, what's wrong?
(07:34):
Ultimately, you know, chose togo to a maternal fetal medicine
doctor and got confirmation ofher diagnosis and then.
Later found a more supportiveteam.
But with my second, I had adoula, and it's actually a dear
friend of mine before I evenknew what doulas were, but with
our daughter jc, I reached outto now my business partner,
(07:57):
Stacy, and we worked outtogether at the gym, and I
reached out and I said, Hey,this is what's going on.
I am gonna be pregnant.
I look very pregnant and.
We're not gonna get to take herhome, I want to be able to go
and work out.
Without a bazillion questions, Iwant to do normal life.
(08:20):
And Stacey offered to telleverybody at the gym what was
going on so that I wouldn't bebombarded with all the
questions.
And then ultimately she offeredto be there the day that she was
born.
And so I didn't know what thatlooked like.
I just knew that we needed allthe support that we could get.
(08:40):
And so Stacy was there helpingus navigate decisions and we,
you know, had our church familysurrounding us.
But after that, and I'm surewe'll, we'll get into more of
her birth story, but after that,I just decided that God was
calling me to walk alongsideother families that were
(09:01):
choosing life for their babies,that the world deemed
invaluable.
And something where a providertold me, some people find
comfort in carrying these babiesto term, but you could just get
it over with.
And didn't know about what thatlooked like.
(09:23):
I just knew that that wasn't achoice that we wanted to
Tiffany (09:26):
Coming from the.
Ryley Chestnut (09:28):
so after we had her and, and she passed, I.
Decided that I was gonna supportwomen that were walking loss and
got certified through stillbirthday, which is a doula
training and with an emphasis onloss and decided that it was so
important.
Maybe even more important forwomen that had babies with
(09:52):
either critical or life limitingdiagnosis is to have support
around them to know.
What their options were, becausesometimes I think the language
that's used is not honest aboutwhat that pregnancy or even that
birth looks like.
Tiffany (10:09):
Thank you for sharing so much., Thank you for telling
us about what happened to you,and also shining a light on the.
The life and hope that, and, andthe the goodness that can come
out of having such a devastatingthing happen in your family.
And I'm sorry that thathappened.
(10:30):
I'm sorry that happened to you,but.
What do you think is the reasonthat there's so much dishonesty
in that space?
What, what do you thinkproviders, I'm assuming it's
mostly other, it's mostlyproviders.
What do you think that they'retrying to prevent someone from
understanding or acknowledgingthe truth of the experience or
(10:57):
like, what, why do, why are we,what are we missing here?
Why is the bereavement doulaeven necessary?
You know, like.
Ryley Chestnut (11:05):
and I think it's really sad because I think a lot
of what posed to me with thefirst provider was we can just
go ahead and induce you, and noone talks about what that
process looks like with someonewho's 20 weeks and your body is
(11:27):
not ready.
a lot of times those women sitin labor for a very long time
and it ends up being an overlytraumatic experience.
And I think, bereavement doulasspecifically are going to come
alongside women and let themknow what their real options
are, right?
(11:47):
And know that you can carry thisbaby as long as you want, there
can be.
More that, like more looking atwhat's going on to keep it safe
for you.
Because ultimately I thinkthat's what's pushed a lot of
the time is this is not safe formom, right?
And so we need to interveneright now because of the
(12:10):
possible complications.
So one example would be withwith JC that she had
anencephaly, so she's.
Missing the part of the brainthat tells her to swallow.
So for a lot of those babies,they have polyhis or high fluid,
that can be dangerous for mom.
And ultimately, you know, cancause stillbirth rates to
(12:33):
increase just because of theexcess fluid.
So with my first.
Provider, my MFM, he said, youknow, we can just take care of
this.
You don't need to carry her aslong as you want.
Just, yeah.
I switched and thankfully met anamazing who we walked in and he
(12:54):
said, you know, this is yourdaughter.
She's fearfully and wonderfullymade.
And yes, her diagnosis is thesame as that previous provider.
But if you want to have asonogram once a week so that you
can see her, I'll codeinsurance.
So they'll pay for it.
I will, you know, do anything inmy power so that you can enjoy
(13:18):
this experience.
But there's just not a lot ofproviders out there that want to
provide level of care.
I think.
I think it's more work.
think, you know, does theirliability increase maybe a
little bit.
It's just something to manage,right?
But on the flip side, we seeproviders wanting to over manage
(13:40):
healthy pregnancies, then whenthere is a pregnancy that might
need more help and management,let's just get it over with.
We don't wanna touch that, youknow?
Tiffany (13:50):
Yeah, so part of it is just.
For lack of a better word, likeprofessional efficiency.
I don't see value in providingthis care.
I would prefer to get this overwith, but it's also a societal
discomfort with loss and death,and it also is probably a lack
of training, a lack of goodeducation.
Ryley Chestnut (14:14):
And I think the research supports, you know,
your mental health.
When we allow a woman see herbaby grieve her baby, hold her
baby, the research shows thatshe does better mentally
long-term grieving thanwondering if she made the right
(14:36):
choice.
Because ultimately what myhusband and I landed on was we
want to give her the best shotthat we would give our other
kids.
That we would give any healthybaby.
She deserves the same level ofcare and the same level of
dignity that our healthy boysdid.
(14:58):
And we just knew that was madein God's image and she was a,
she was worthy of being valued.
Tiffany (15:10):
How would you, counsel, a woman who's not getting the
type of support from herprovider.
In some of this initial stage ofjust looking for a provider
who's going to be able toprovide the type of care that
she needs for the rest of herpregnancy if she finds herself
in a similar situation as youwith jcs pregnancy.
Ryley Chestnut (15:31):
are amazing providers out there.
I live in the Dallas area and Iam connected pretty well with a
lot of the really good providersin the area.
And I have a list.
That I will send people and Iwill say, these are who are
gonna support your decision tocarry your baby.
(15:52):
And these are the people thatare going to give you actual
information and not just fearmongering and scare tactics, or
now that you know abortion isillegal in Texas.
We're telling women, I just hada mom two weeks ago that reached
out who was told she just needsto go to New Mexico and get a
(16:14):
termination for a baby like jc,whose condition is the same
thing.
that's what she was told was heronly option.
And so we talked and sheconnected with a better team of
providers.
And I know that there are.
A list of pro-life providersbased on what area you live in,
(16:37):
and I think that's where youstart.
I think you start with theproviders that are known to
support life and value life,even in a situation that maybe
is not a hundred percenthealthy, if that makes sense.
Tiffany (16:52):
Yeah.
That's a great, that is a greattip and I, I'm thinking about
something that you said earlierabout.
It's not just a problem to takecare of now or a problem to take
care of later, right?
It's not apples to apples.
It's not like, well, you couldeither have this terrible
traumatic experience now get itover with and not have to suffer
(17:13):
through the rest of yourpregnancy, or you could suffer
through your pregnancy and thenhave this terrible experience
later.
There's gonna be an element ofit, of course, because grief is
just.
A lot.
Experiencing that loss is a lot,but I don't think that's a
short, I'm not sure.
Would with your experience, isthat a shortcut?
Are you short-cutting anything?
Are you avoiding anything If youchoose to induce early and go
(17:38):
through that experience soonerthan later?
Ryley Chestnut (17:41):
what's really hard about this is I've now done
this for eight years.
And I have counseled numerouswomen on, you know, either
choosing to induce or choosingto terminate.
I've had many women choose toterminate and later come back to
me looking for resources on howthey heal from that, because
(18:05):
they have the guilt and theshame, versus knowing that I.
Gave this baby the best chancethat I could.
I think I've also met women whodidn't know that they could even
carry the term.
You know, that there is truly noinformed consent in some of
these situations.
(18:26):
It's truly just, you're justgonna do an induction now
because this baby is not gonnamake it, so you might as well do
it now.
And they don't even know whatthe other options are, you know?
So I think.
term to be done with it soonerrather than later is actually
causing more harm it is you togrieve and heal.
(18:50):
And I will say that, you know my20 weeks until she was born at
33 weeks, because my fluidlevels got to a point where it
Tiffany (19:00):
Something
Ryley Chestnut (19:00):
longer safe for me to carry.
And I
Tiffany (19:02):
possible.
Ryley Chestnut (19:03):
provider who knew that and who looked at me
and looked at my husband andsaid, Hey.
We're done now.
Her fluid was, my fluid was at47 and normal is about 16 at
that point in pregnancy.
And he said, now our risks haveincreased and we just need to
meet your daughter.
(19:24):
And gave us the weekend to, wehad a date night.
We went out with our friends whoalso had a daughter that had the
exact same condition.
That was born two years in, oneday jc.
So they were in our hospitalroom on their daughter's second
birthday and brought us cake andjust celebrated her.
(19:51):
And we had a whole team, sorry,I'm getting emotional.
Had a whole team of people that.
You know, my, my shtick wasWingstop when I was pregnant
with her, and I just ate all thewings, so many wings to the
point that everyone in ourchurch and our friends, they
(20:12):
were all eating Wingstop andusing a hashtag, celebrating her
life before she was even born.
And.
Wingstop ended up donating allof the food to her celebration
of life service that she had.
it was really just an awesomeexperience and I, those 13 weeks
(20:33):
were the most refining andincredible time.
And I can look back and go, man,I, I soaked up her pregnancy.
I got to know her The littleperson that she was, and I got
to really just enjoy that timewith her and wouldn't take back
(20:55):
a second of it.
And yes, it was hard and it wasexhausting to go out in public
with my two boys and the numberof people who said, oh, are you
getting a girl?
I would, you know, say yes, butshe doesn't get to come home
with us.
But that also opened so manydoors of other women crying to
me, talking about theirstillbirth that they never told
(21:18):
anyone about before because itwasn't talked about.
So there's just, I've never meta woman who
Tiffany (21:25):
Okay.
Ryley Chestnut (21:25):
to carry her baby as long as she could regret
it.
But I have met women who chosenot to and regret it every day.
Tiffany (21:35):
Sounds like a huge piece of women feeling able
unequipped and encouraged to dothat is their support system.
And so we talked about theprovider a little bit.
You are the lady in Dallas.
Tell us, tell us a little bitabout Labor of Hope and also
tell us about.
(21:56):
Like, let, let's kind of unpackthe term bereavement a little
bit and how women would locatesome, locate the lady like you
in their area or get connectedto some of those pieces so that
they can start to build supportaround options and
Ryley Chestnut (22:12):
Yeah,
Tiffany (22:13):
that.
Ryley Chestnut (22:14):
Labor of Hope provides doulas, photographers,
and celebration of life servicesall and other families like
connecting other familiestogether that have walked
similar paths.
All free of charge.
We're a nonprofit.
We rely solely on donor support.
And we, about six years ago,trained over a dozen doulas with
(22:41):
providing them with stillbirthday training and then a
weekend away where we, you know,went over what to do in a
bereavement birth and how thatlooks different from.
regular, regular doula role, Soas a bereavement doula, I am
(23:01):
doing a lot of the same doula
Tiffany (23:03):
Mentioned.
Ryley Chestnut (23:04):
coaching and emotional support and the
physical support, but also thebiggest piece of that is the
memory making side of it.
Once baby is born, sure thatwe're getting all the hand
prints, all the footprints.
You know, a lot of times we, weclip a little bit of baby's hair
and get thumbprints and toeprints and these memories,
(23:28):
they're not gonna get back.
You only have the time that youhave to create those memories
and also equipping people toknow, to ask for things like a
cooling co.
Right.
Something that most hospitalshave that will help preserve
baby's condition.
If you have family coming intotown to meet this baby, or a
(23:51):
photographer coming to dopictures, because for a lot of
these families, those are theonly pictures they're ever gonna
have, and those memories have tolast a lifetime.
A lifetime.
And so with doula, I think thebiggest difference is those
memories.
That have to carry them forever.
(24:11):
And so training more women onhow to support those families
Tiffany (24:16):
Awesome.
Ryley Chestnut (24:17):
And still birthday was the training that I
went through and that we put adozen women through in
Tiffany (24:25):
Planning.
Ryley Chestnut (24:26):
And if you go to their website, you can find a
doula that is still birthdaytrained near you.
That is the best place to go.
Even though we are located inDallas, I have supported women
in Ohio, in California, inTennessee all over.
The lost world is really smalland it's the club nobody wants
(24:48):
to be a part of, but once you'rea part of it, you're really
grateful.
And because of thoseconnections, I have been able to
help find support all over thecountry, which is.
Huge and just amazing.
Tiffany (25:04):
It's amazing and thank you.
Thank you for serving that way.
Thank you for caring.
Thank you for showing up in thatrole.
It would, it could have been soeasy to process that
independently and privately.
And instead there's so many thatgets to benefit from your story
and jcs story and.
(25:25):
You know, what we get to knowabout her and how that has, you
know, shaped you into the womanand mom that you are.
Tell us a little bit about someof the details of her birth, if
you feel like sharing, to givethe listeners an idea of.
How that went for you and some,and especially highlight for us,
ri like the auctions, thingsthat you chose, things that you
(25:49):
didn't, didn't have controlover, but wish you did.
Or the memory making the peoplethe, like, give us some of those
really tangible pieces too fromher birth.
Ryley Chestnut (26:02):
like I said a little bit ago, we went in for
one of our weekly ultrasounds.
I had already been strugglingwith high fluid, just, which is
very normal for anencephalicbabies and something that we
were monitoring pretty closely.
It was very large and veryuncomfortable at this point, and
I went in and that's when hesaid, you know, Hey, this is.
(26:22):
Now it's dangerous.
And of course my husband's like,all right, let's go right now.
And I was like, hold on, aminute.
And we spent the weekend, youknow, doing what I, I said
before and we went in on aSunday night on the 5th of June
and had a lot of our churchfamily there.
There.
(26:43):
Unbeknownst to me there was asignup genius.
we had people praying throughoutthe day and the night, all night
long.
The hospital commented that theyhad never seen a waiting room.
So full, needs were met before Ieven knew that I needed it.
I had, you know, kind ofjokingly in my very.
(27:07):
Sarcastic sense of humor alittle bit.
I said in one of our ladies'Bible classes, I said, does
anyone know of a funeral home?
Because I'm gonna need one.
one of the women at our churchemailed me and she had lost a
daughter a few years before andshe said, you know, this is
where we used, where we, youknow, had our daughter taken
(27:29):
care of and we would love to goand set that up for you.
I didn't know that was anoption.
I never had to step foot insideof the funeral home.
Someone went and got all thepaperwork, it to us at the
hospital, helped us filleverything out, and literally
just signed it.
They paid for it.
(27:50):
nothing.
And so when we went in to haveher, we had all of that done
ahead of time, which I think isalso one of the roles of a
bereavement doula that no onereally knows is having someone
that knows.
What you need to take care ofahead of time and the questions
to ask like about the deathcertificate and about the
(28:10):
funeral home, and getting all ofthat set up because the day that
that baby is born, all you wantto do is focus on the baby and
that's it.
Right?
And so we went in the nightbefore they
Tiffany (28:22):
Why.
Ryley Chestnut (28:23):
induction because my fluid levels were so
high, my uterus was not so happywith some of the medications
that they were giving.
And so we ended up kind ofhaving to do things really slow
and then eventually they brokemy water and I had requested to
have monitoring the whole time.
(28:43):
is something that, you know,again, the doula is gonna tell
you to do because a lot ofproviders will say, we're not
gonna monitor because this babyis not gonna survive.
So why would we monitor babyright now?
I knew that I wanted to meet herwhile she was still alive.
And so we advocated for themonitoring and when they broke
(29:06):
my water, about 24 hours after Iwent in, she went into distress.
And our plan all along was thatif she went into distress, I
wanted to
Tiffany (29:15):
So.
Ryley Chestnut (29:15):
a C-section.
And you know, at this point Iwas probably four centimeters
dilated, so not close to havinga baby at all.
And
Tiffany (29:25):
So.
Ryley Chestnut (29:25):
for me, also being unable to have an
epidural.
And knowing that I was feelingeverything happening and wasn't
gonna get to take this babyhome, when they said that she
was in distress, I said, okay,I'm done.
ahead and just do the C-section.
And was no pushback, which Ilater found out at another birth
(29:48):
that that doctor was given alittle bit of grief for doing a
C-section on me, she just keptrepeating, this is what the
patient wanted.
is what she wanted and we'regonna respect that.
And I declined any medication tomake me kind of loopy that they
normally will give you.
Before we knew that I would haveto have general anesthesia
(30:10):
because of my back.
so we
Tiffany (30:13):
I hear.
Ryley Chestnut (30:14):
ahead of time and we knew that that was
something that was gonna have tohappen.
And so, you know, we, we wentback for the C-section.
They put me under, my husbandgot to be in the room, which
again was something I didn'tknow I had to ask for until
after the fact because normallyin a general anesthesia,
(30:35):
C-section, spouses are notallowed and they made the
exception.
They let my husband be backthere with me and woke me up
before we left the OR she wasstill alive and she lived for 51
minutes.
Yes.
And one of the other things thatwe advocated for was suctioning
(30:58):
her.
they're not gonna do extremelifesaving measures, but doing
something to give her the mosttime.
Again, I didn't know that thatwas an option, and that was
something that we talked aboutbeforehand with other lost
families.
And then of course, my doula.
so.
They suctioned her a little bit.
(31:18):
The NICU doctors did.
Everybody was very respectful.
And it is a complete miraclethat I remember everything after
general anesthesia, you know, Iwoke up and was a little bit
loopy and obviously in a lot ofpain because I didn't have an
epidural and I just had majorabdominal surgery.
(31:39):
So I woke up and they took meback to the room, which was.
Full of people.
My mom was there.
My boys came up almostimmediately when they made the
call that we were gonna have theC-section.
So my older boys that are nowalmost 15 and 12, they were five
and two at the time.
(32:01):
So they came up there and it wasjust an incredible time.
And that sounds so strange.
Considering the circumstances,but at the same time, I asked
the questions, I had the supportand I knew what to advocate for,
and because of that, we gotthose 51 minutes I have memories
(32:25):
of holding her and loving on herand the pictures and the
memories that have to last meforever.
Tiffany (32:33):
So good.
That's so good.
There's so much goodnessthreaded into something that is
otherwise quite terrible.
Right?
Quite awful, quite sad.
Over like devastating,overwhelmingly devastating in
some ways.
And yet we can still use ourvoices and our advocacy and our
choices and and.
(32:54):
And, and have the bestexperience possible.
It's worth it.
It's worth it to have the bestexperience possible when it's
you know, less than one hourwith your child on earth.
Tell me a thank you for sharingjcs story.
Thank you so much for sharingthat and weaving in those, those
pieces.
Exactly like I asked you to,giving people options and
(33:17):
helping them understand choicesand what to ask for.
Tell me a little bit about.
How that changes for the womanwho is going into her birth and
her baby's already passed.
Ryley Chestnut (33:29):
I think with stillborn babies, you know,
there, it's a very quietenvironment it's very obvious
when that baby is being born,how quiet the room is and.
I am hyper aware and telling myclients that are experiencing
(33:52):
this to fill that room with, youknow, whether it's positive
affirmations, whether it'sworship music, whether it's any
sort of music even, you know,I've had one client that had a
stillborn baby and had to have aC-section and we had the, or.
(34:13):
With the most peaceful, calmingmusic requesting that when the
baby is born, that we still say,Hey, ba, the, the head is out,
baby is out, baby is here.
If that baby has a name, usingthat baby's name really, really
gentle with the baby's skin,Being super careful with.
(34:37):
The integrity of that baby,treating that baby like it is a
living baby talking to the babylike it is a living baby the
baby's name.
We often do saline baths.
I don't know if you're familiarwith that, but can get a big tub
and fill it with saline and ithelps preserve baby's condition.
(35:02):
And you can also have some ofthe most beautiful pictures.
Because of the saline.
And so walking alongside nursesand doctors and telling them
these things, you know, I'vealways had most amazing
experiences in those scenarioswhere they're super respectful
(35:23):
and want to do everything thatthe family wants.
And as soon as I walk into asituation like that, I'm
gathering up supplies.
I'm making sure that we've gotthe stuff for the hand prints,
we've got the stuff for thefootprints.
We, you know, still have thebirth announcement that you get
(35:44):
when your normal healthy babyarrives.
Right?
So still treating that baby withdignity and knowing that yes,
this looks different.
And then also asking if theyhave the cooling co.
Something that's gonna helppreserve baby's condition long
term if a photographer couldn'tbe there right away.
(36:06):
I've even had nurses takepictures with their phone or
take it with a hospital cameraand give, you know, the family
an SD card.
So all the dignity for thosesweet babies and celebrating
their life.
Tiffany (36:21):
Thank you for sharing that.
I mean each circumstance isquite nuanced, right?
And it's impossible to give.
Recommendations for somethingacross the board, like normal
live birth is too, I mean,that's, we're talking about the,
we're talking about the sameevent here.
What do you see as being likereally beautiful truths that
(36:44):
overlap, that just encompassbirth in general?
What can bereavement birth belike?
And how can we, how can weapproach that in, in the way
that like, it's still birth,it's still a huge experience for
your family.
It's still this person in yourfamily, it's still a member of
(37:07):
your family.
What are some other, what aresome other things that women can
be considering?
Just universal truths of birth
Ryley Chestnut (37:15):
biggest thing that I see is, you know, in my
line of doula work, outside ofbereavement, I am primarily
focused on out of hospital, onmedicated birth.
And so in the cases where wehave a woman whose baby is still
born, or a situation like jcs, alot of times those women still
(37:38):
want that really peacefulenvironment.
And I think sometimes we tellthem like, no, no, just get your
epidural.
It's, it's already hard enough.
You don't need to make it harderon yourself.
You don't get a prize, you don'tget a medal for doing it
Unmedicated.
No, we can still value theirchoices and their birth and what
(38:00):
they want.
We can still give them apositive birth experience that
looks exactly like what theywanted before.
Just because the circumstanceshave changed doesn't mean their
entire birth has to go the door.
Right?
(38:21):
You can still have a beautifulunmedicated birth.
For a baby with a terminaldiagnosis, if that's what you
want, you can still have abeautiful unmedicated birth for
a stillborn baby.
I did one last year and that wasstill something that was so
important to her.
And even if, you know, she hadto go from out of hospital to
(38:44):
hospital and she still wantedthem to let her know when
Tiffany (38:48):
To.
Ryley Chestnut (38:49):
was there and unmedicated, you know.
But she still wanted that baby'sarrival to be announced like it
would be in a healthy birth,right?
And so there are so many thingsthat you're stripped of when you
get a terminal diagnosis or whenyou find out that your baby is
no longer with you.
(39:09):
So why can't we keep a lot ofthe same preferences and desires
the same, even in something thatmaybe is not gonna go the way
that you initially pictured.
And I think a lot of women finda lot of value in that.
It gives them, empowers them, itgives that baby dignity, and it
(39:30):
gives them just peace when it'sall said and done.
Tiffany (39:35):
Thank you.
Thanks for caring about that andsharing that with women and
making it making it worth, worthtalking about, worth asking for.
And it's, yeah, it's just a,it's still a really important
event.
You still.
Have control over a lot ofpieces, especially as it go as
(39:56):
it pertains to how you get tolook back on that day and how
you feel about that day and thatevent.
Like it is, it's worth havingthe things about it that you
wanted to in your experience, doyou.
S well, so it sounds like withjcs birth specifically, you said
(40:16):
that there were people who justwere coming out of the woodwork.
It was just you were justgetting completely surrounded
and cared for with so manypieces that you couldn't have
even thought of yourself.
I love that for you.
I'm so glad that was yourexperience, and it's a beautiful
way that we should be encouragedas a community because this,
(40:37):
this discussion, this message isnot just for women who have
experienced this type ofpregnancy loss or infant loss.
This is a, this is a discussionand a conversation that needs,
that everybody needs to be awareof and have because we are
responsible as.
Community members for otherwomen who experience it to show
(40:59):
up Well, right.
Talk.
Talk to that piece.
Talk to that woman who'slistening now ri and share.
How do we, how do we show up asa community?
How do we, how?
Not everybody is going to beable to say what they need in
this situation.
Not everyone's gonna feelcomfortable asking for help.
(41:22):
Not everybody, not, not the, thebystander, the onlooker might
not feel comfortable, which isthat, that's a whole different
discussion.
Right.
But what is the responsibilityas the community members once we
know that somebody we know isgoing to walk through an
experience like this or hasrecently?
(41:42):
What do, what do we need to knowas a community?
Ryley Chestnut (41:46):
wants, we all wanna relate.
wants to have that common groundwith your friends or the people
that are around you.
And so.
For women that have neverexperienced miscarriage or
pregnancy loss or stillbirthinfant loss, they don't feel
like they can say anythingbecause they've never walked it
(42:07):
themselves.
Right?
But the best thing you can do isbe there, just show up.
You don't have the right words,even, you know, even somebody
who has experienced it.
The way that my story was isdifferent from one of my dear
friends who also walked almostthe exact same thing and the way
(42:28):
that she processed it wasdifferent.
That doesn't make mine right andhers wrong, or hers wrong, and
you know, whatever.
It different for every singleperson.
And the best thing you can do isshow up.
there, you know, it is anuncomfortable topic for a lot of
(42:49):
people.
And media has done amazingthings in connecting women that
are walking through loss.
But some of my closest friendsthroughout that journey were
women who had never experiencedit, who showed up and didn't
feel like they needed to sayanything.
(43:09):
They just showed up.
to take my kids to the park.
They, I didn't cook for like asolid year.
Literally didn't cook for ayear.
a cooler on my porch for thedays that I didn't feel like I
wanted to talk to people, andpeople dropped off food.
People took my boys to the park.
(43:30):
People you know, just said, Hey,I'm praying for you.
I still have a card from one ofmy dear friends from church.
And one of the things that sheput in the card was, always be a
girl mom.
And at that point, I had twoboys and I had no living
daughter.
I have a living daughter now,but that little statement right
(43:55):
there, almost 10 years laterstill something that makes me
tear up.
And she didn't even rememberwriting it.
I told her a couple months ago,I'm like, do you even remember
this?
And something that you see asinsignificant is maybe gonna
mean the world to her.
(44:15):
her baby.
Don't show up and think that wejust don't, we don't need to
talk about it.
We don't need to talk about it.
I, no, it's okay to bring it up.
I guarantee you, you're notmaking her think about something
that she wasn't already thinkingabout.
Right.
She's been thinking about it.
If that baby has a name, use thebaby's name.
(44:38):
Include that baby in theirfamily lineup.
My greatest honor is being J C'sMom.
Yes.
I have five other living kidsnow, when someone says, this is
J C's mom, that's still huge.
So no one's gonna have the rightthings to say, show up.
(44:59):
You don't even have to show upwith food.
Just show up, encouragement,offer, you know, help with their
older children if they havethem, or just sit with them and
also be able to do, you know, mydearest friends were the ones
that could talk about jc, butthen could also talk about
normal life, because I still hadtwo boys.
(45:20):
I still, you know, homeschooled.
I still did normal day-to-daylife.
And I didn't need to just alwayscry.
Some days I needed to cry, andthen I needed to be the
ridiculous person that I am.
having the freedom to do thatwith my safe people was huge.
Tiffany (45:39):
Yeah.
Just show up or just be present.
Right.
Just be a person who's willingto be present in it and simply
saying, I.
I'm here for you.
I'm thinking about you.
I'm praying for you.
That's enough.
That's enough.
If you don't feel like you're,like, you have a close enough
relationship to get in there,you know, with them just
(46:01):
reaching out and letting themknow that you're thinking about
them, that you love their baby,just for the fact that their
baby's life has value to you andvalue to the fam, value to your
family, right?
Like, I mean.
That's really simple.
That's something everybody cando.
Ryley Chestnut (46:19):
I think
Tiffany (46:19):
You.
Ryley Chestnut (46:20):
about a whole of.
Feeling like we need to say theright thing and we don't wanna
say the wrong thing.
guilty of saying the wrong thingall the time in lost situations
or unhealthy situations.
Don't overthink it.
You probably don't have theright thing to say and you might
say something that's wrong, butat the end of the day, what they
(46:43):
remember is that you showed up.
Tiffany (46:45):
You mentioned still birthday as a resource, like a
more of a, more of like anational resource that women can
go to.
What are some of your otherfavorite resources that might be
a book or a podcast or anInstagram account or something
that you think is really nailingthis conversation for women who
want to keep learning and keepgetting more support?
Ryley Chestnut (47:07):
I love now I lay me down to sleep, which is an
organization that'll takepictures after a certain
gestation, maybe 24 weeks, or, Idon't know a hundred percent,
but they've got photographersnationwide and a hotline that
you can call for support.
That is a great resource.
(47:28):
have always loved Bridget'sCradles for second trimester
loss.
They are in most hospitals now,at least in the Dallas area, and
that is just a beautiful way tohonor those babies that are born
in the second trimester, whichsometimes I think get less
resources for.
(47:50):
And she has a book that she justcame out with called Cradled in
Hope.
That is fantastic.
I love Mother of Wild is onInstagram and they have prints
for loss and for miscarriages.
And I think even Healthy babies,they've got birth prints.
(48:12):
But that is something that eachand every Labor of Hope client
gets a birth print after theirbaby is born with their birth
details and everything.
And books.
I mean, I love The Hope Mommiesis another organization that is
also nationwide, that has groupsthat meet all over for
(48:33):
miscarriage, infant loss menmommies enduring, mothers
enduring neonatal I thinksomething like that.
That's another great resource.
There are so many groups outthere that connect women and so
many great like Bible studiesand books, and that's one thing
that when you walk this, you'regiven at least, I was given
(48:56):
bazillion brochures andpamphlets and suggestions, and
my all time favorite book is aNancy Guthrie book.
And it's hearing Jesus speak inyour sorrow.
She lost two babies and thatbook was one that I gift every
single person that is walkingloss because it's just
(49:17):
incredible.
Tiffany (49:18):
Thank you there.
There's so many so many.
Places where women can, I thinkmost importantly, just get some
more support, not feel quite soalone or in and isolated and
like, this is only happening toyou before because everyone else
is so uncomfortable talkingabout it.
And like you've said, we might,we very well might know women
(49:41):
who have experienced stillbirthand or infant loss and not had.
Never told their story.
It's not a part of the way thatthey introduce themselves or
their families or how, you know,getting to know somebody.
And so it's just good.
It's good to hear the differentways that women are able to
process and get some support.
(50:02):
If you, Riley had like a partingstatement for the women who are
listening, who are experiencinga loss like this.
To anticipate the hope that isto come because of what you have
experienced yourself.
You know that there's a placewhere it doesn't feel the way
(50:23):
that it did on the days that youhad to process the overwhelming
amount of, of grief.
I'm sure that, i'm sure that youstill have days where it does
feel overwhelming and hits youand feels really heavy and hard,
but what you have shared in thisinterview so far is a lot of
hope.
And so what do you, what can youshare with women who are
(50:47):
listening right now who don'tfeel hopeful about their own
situation?
Ryley Chestnut (50:51):
One, I tell everybody I wish I could give
you a five year out of what thislooks like and if you allow this
baby story, whether it'smiscarriage, stillbirth, story
like mine, infant loss, if youallow that story to be shared,
(51:12):
you will be tremendously blessedby what comes out of it.
I.
And nine years out and almost adecade, which is insane.
I still look back at picturesthat are in my home and think,
did I really do that?
Was that really something that Idid?
(51:34):
And I'm always blown away by theway, God has used it.
You're not alone.
There are women all over.
The country that are walkingsomething that nobody wants to
walk, wants to do this.
I wouldn't ask for this, but Ialso wouldn't take it back.
(51:57):
I wouldn't because the way thatI value my family, the way that
I value my children, everyaspect of my life is changed
because of jc and first year is.
Hard.
hard and it's, it was ugly.
(52:18):
It was ugly at times.
I had friendships that I saidthings that I probably shouldn't
have said in my grief, and Ihave amazing friends who showed
me so much grace and loved mereally well through some really,
really hard seasons.
don't lose hope your story.
(52:41):
Because one day you're gonnalook back and you're gonna
think, wow, I did something thatI never thought I could do.
And look what happened becauseof it.
Allow your story to be shared,because it's shared, it connects
more women to more resources andfeeling less alone and knowing
(53:06):
that.
This is a huge part of thereason that I do what I do.
I wouldn't do what I do withoutJC and I wouldn't be the mom
that I am without jc.
But that first year was realhard and after that, I felt like
I could kind of slowly back thepieces of who the new Riley was.
(53:30):
'cause I'm not the same Riley,I'm not the same wife, I'm not
the same mom.
But man, God did some incrediblethings and it's just something
that I am tremendously gratefulfor.
So when it feels like there's nohope, and just hard, and it's
just awful, lean into that oneday the sun will come out again
(53:54):
and you'll feel like this wasworth something.
If it changed one baby's story,if it changed one mom, if it
allowed mom to one mom to justfeel like this baby had dignity,
it was all worth it.
Tiffany (54:11):
Amen.
Thank you.
I'm gonna end us on that'causethere's nothing better to end..
Thank you.
Ryley Chestnut (54:18):
for having me.
I am so grateful that I was ableto share with you, and this was
just incredible.
Hey ladies, if you're loving theshow and want to help us keep it
ad free so we can keep talkingabout all things birth and
women's health, without cuttingto an ad about electrolytes or
(54:39):
grass fed beef sticks, here ishow you can support us.
First, leave us a quick reviewor a rating.
It helps more women, new moms,and birth enthusiasts find our
show.
And it honestly means so much tous to be reminded that you love
what we are doing here.
Second, share this episode witha friend, with a doula buddy, or
(55:00):
anyone who is on their ownholistic health or natural birth
journey.
And third hop on our newsletterlist.
This is where we share.
Bonus goodies behind the scenesstuff.
Fun little extras you just won'thear on the show.
You can find that link to joinin our show notes below.
Thanks so much for being a partof this growing empowered
(55:21):
community.
We could not do it without you.
Welcome to at Home with Kellyand Tiffany, where we share
powerful tools, excitingeducation, and relatable views
about holistic health,physiological birth, and
thriving in the female body.
We are home birth midwives insunny San Diego.
Passionate about thealternatives that give women
control and confidence inhealth, in birth and in life.
(00:24):
We've poured a lot of love intocreating very in depth and high
value offerings.
A monthly membership, aphysiological birth course, and
holistic guides for the womenwho really want to dive all the
way in.
But this podcast.
We want to bring zero costinformation about health and
natural birth and make theseimportant topics accessible
(00:46):
always.
Your support of the show is alsozero cost and means everything
to us.
When you leave a review, sharean episode and join our
newsletter.
It really helps us keep thisspace open, ad free and full of
honest, valuable conversations.
Now let's dive into today'sshow.
Tiffany (01:10):
Welcome back to at Home with Tiffany and Kelly.
I'm Tiffany, and Kelly is notpresent on this exact episode
because I got to interview adoula and friend of ours, Riley
Chestnut.
And so you are about to hear aninterview with Riley where we
(01:30):
talk about her own experiencewith.
Bereavement in a pregnancy ofhers and how that has inspired
her to work in her own communityin Dallas, Texas, providing
bereavement support and doulaservices and just an all out
advocate for supporting familieswho were walking through
(01:51):
pregnancy loss and infant loss.
And so it's going to be awonderful interview full of so
much.
Really good.
Advocacy information, but alsoit is a message for those of us
who will never experience thistype of loss in our own lives
because it's gonna connect us tothe mothers around us who will
(02:14):
or who have.
And so I hope that all of youlisten.
Who feel like it's an okayconversation to get into.
You are sure to be inspired andto learn a lot, and I'm excited
to bring it to you, especiallynow as October is national
pregnancy and infant loss month.
And so we get to kind of kickoff that bit of recognition with
(02:40):
a conversation like this that Ihope just basically unifies us
as women and mothers.
I hope you enjoy.
Ri, thank you so much for comingon the podcast.
I'm very excited for the superserious thing that we get to
discuss today.
But you and I have had some funbefore this podcast, which is
(03:04):
why I asked you to come on, andI, I'm not sure if we'll make
light of this topic necessarily,but there's a couple things we
have discussed that you havemade me laugh about and I'm used
to being the one, cracking thejokes.
So say hello to our audience andthen I'm going to, and then I'm
gonna tell our audience whatyou, what you have cracked me up
(03:27):
about recently.
Ryley Chestnut (03:27):
I am Riley.
I am a doula, childbirtheducator, body ready method
professional, and a homeschoolmom and a wife and follower of
Christ.
Tiffany (03:38):
Beautiful, and I'm so excited to have you on the show
to share your expertise in a lotof areas, but you and I, and
like Kelly too, we had a fastfriendship over just having so
many of those pieces in common.
But there is one thing that youdo not abide in.
You tell us what it is.
Ryley Chestnut (03:59):
Tiffany.
It's the socks during sleep.
I can't do it.
You know, I just, I live inTexas, it's hot.
even in the dead of winter, Ican't do it.
You can't convince me.
I'm sorry.
There's no amount of researchthat will tell me that I gotta
do it.
Sorry.
Tiffany (04:16):
So for those of you listening who feel sentimentally
similar.
Really preferring not to takethis sock advice.
You can be, you guys can be teamdoula Reilly.
Ryley Chestnut (04:29):
Team.
No sock.
Tiffany (04:31):
It is a, a building a team, a growing team, a growing
force.
I will not wear those tell, tellme what the hashtag is and
we'll, we'll, we'll get itgoing.
But we do, but we do get to talkabout serious things today, and
I thank you for coming and beinga part of this discussion.
And I know I'm gonna say it amillion times during this
(04:55):
interview, but we don't talkabout this topic enough.
We don't talk about bereavement,we don't talk about loss.
We're getting better at talkingabout miscarriage, but.
Stillbirth and infant loss islike still such a really
difficult thing to discuss, andI'm so thankful that there's
(05:17):
women like you out there who arewilling to have the discussion
and want to use.
The discussion to bring thetopic, you know, to the
forefront.
So tell, share a little bitabout your own background and
why the topic of bereavement isso important for women who even
(05:39):
have an experienced loss.
Ryley Chestnut (05:40):
much for having Me too, Tiffany.
I know this is one of thosetopics that I agree.
I think we have come a long way.
And we are talking more and moreabout this.
I see it in my childbirthclasses with, you know, women
that are pregnant with healthybabies, sharing their
miscarriages in an open roomfull of other women that I don't
(06:03):
think 20 years ago we would'vetalked about it.
And my story is different.
So my husband and I met and gotmarried when I was 17.
We did not have our first childuntil I was 22 and had my first
at 22.
I have a few spine and so Ifound out when I went in to have
(06:24):
his induction that I couldn'thave an epidural so had an
unmedicated birth.
You know, I joked thatunmedicated birth chose me
because there was no other wayto do it, and then had my second
baby at home.
And then our third child, we didgenetic testing at the beginning
purely because I wanted to knowif was a boy or a girl, and that
(06:49):
was it, because in my head.
I had never thought that thiswould be a part of my story, and
her genetic testing came backbeautiful and perfect, and we
found out we were having alittle girl after two boys, and
went to our 19 week anatomyultrasound with our two boys and
(07:09):
found out that she hadanencephaly, which is the
absence of the skull, and it isone of those conditions deemed
incompatible with life.
And so at that appointment, youknow, we were, we were told
almost immediately before weknew her diagnosis that we could
terminate.
And I looked at the midwife andI said, what's wrong?
(07:34):
Ultimately, you know, chose togo to a maternal fetal medicine
doctor and got confirmation ofher diagnosis and then.
Later found a more supportiveteam.
But with my second, I had adoula, and it's actually a dear
friend of mine before I evenknew what doulas were, but with
our daughter jc, I reached outto now my business partner,
(07:57):
Stacy, and we worked outtogether at the gym, and I
reached out and I said, Hey,this is what's going on.
I am gonna be pregnant.
I look very pregnant and.
We're not gonna get to take herhome, I want to be able to go
and work out.
Without a bazillion questions, Iwant to do normal life.
(08:20):
And Stacey offered to telleverybody at the gym what was
going on so that I wouldn't bebombarded with all the
questions.
And then ultimately she offeredto be there the day that she was
born.
And so I didn't know what thatlooked like.
I just knew that we needed allthe support that we could get.
(08:40):
And so Stacy was there helpingus navigate decisions and we,
you know, had our church familysurrounding us.
But after that, and I'm surewe'll, we'll get into more of
her birth story, but after that,I just decided that God was
calling me to walk alongsideother families that were
(09:01):
choosing life for their babies,that the world deemed
invaluable.
And something where a providertold me, some people find
comfort in carrying these babiesto term, but you could just get
it over with.
And didn't know about what thatlooked like.
(09:23):
I just knew that that wasn't achoice that we wanted to
Tiffany (09:26):
Coming from the.
Ryley Chestnut (09:28):
so after we had her and, and she passed, I.
Decided that I was gonna supportwomen that were walking loss and
got certified through stillbirthday, which is a doula
training and with an emphasis onloss and decided that it was so
important.
Maybe even more important forwomen that had babies with
(09:52):
either critical or life limitingdiagnosis is to have support
around them to know.
What their options were, becausesometimes I think the language
that's used is not honest aboutwhat that pregnancy or even that
birth looks like.
Tiffany (10:09):
Thank you for sharing so much., Thank you for telling
us about what happened to you,and also shining a light on the.
The life and hope that, and, andthe the goodness that can come
out of having such a devastatingthing happen in your family.
And I'm sorry that thathappened.
(10:30):
I'm sorry that happened to you,but.
What do you think is the reasonthat there's so much dishonesty
in that space?
What, what do you thinkproviders, I'm assuming it's
mostly other, it's mostlyproviders.
What do you think that they'retrying to prevent someone from
understanding or acknowledgingthe truth of the experience or
(10:57):
like, what, why do, why are we,what are we missing here?
Why is the bereavement doulaeven necessary?
You know, like.
Ryley Chestnut (11:05):
and I think it's really sad because I think a lot
of what posed to me with thefirst provider was we can just
go ahead and induce you, and noone talks about what that
process looks like with someonewho's 20 weeks and your body is
(11:27):
not ready.
a lot of times those women sitin labor for a very long time
and it ends up being an overlytraumatic experience.
And I think, bereavement doulasspecifically are going to come
alongside women and let themknow what their real options
are, right?
(11:47):
And know that you can carry thisbaby as long as you want, there
can be.
More that, like more looking atwhat's going on to keep it safe
for you.
Because ultimately I thinkthat's what's pushed a lot of
the time is this is not safe formom, right?
And so we need to interveneright now because of the
(12:10):
possible complications.
So one example would be withwith JC that she had
anencephaly, so she's.
Missing the part of the brainthat tells her to swallow.
So for a lot of those babies,they have polyhis or high fluid,
that can be dangerous for mom.
And ultimately, you know, cancause stillbirth rates to
(12:33):
increase just because of theexcess fluid.
So with my first.
Provider, my MFM, he said, youknow, we can just take care of
this.
You don't need to carry her aslong as you want.
Just, yeah.
I switched and thankfully met anamazing who we walked in and he
(12:54):
said, you know, this is yourdaughter.
She's fearfully and wonderfullymade.
And yes, her diagnosis is thesame as that previous provider.
But if you want to have asonogram once a week so that you
can see her, I'll codeinsurance.
So they'll pay for it.
I will, you know, do anything inmy power so that you can enjoy
(13:18):
this experience.
But there's just not a lot ofproviders out there that want to
provide level of care.
I think.
I think it's more work.
think, you know, does theirliability increase maybe a
little bit.
It's just something to manage,right?
But on the flip side, we seeproviders wanting to over manage
(13:40):
healthy pregnancies, then whenthere is a pregnancy that might
need more help and management,let's just get it over with.
We don't wanna touch that, youknow?
Tiffany (13:50):
Yeah, so part of it is just.
For lack of a better word, likeprofessional efficiency.
I don't see value in providingthis care.
I would prefer to get this overwith, but it's also a societal
discomfort with loss and death,and it also is probably a lack
of training, a lack of goodeducation.
Ryley Chestnut (14:14):
And I think the research supports, you know,
your mental health.
When we allow a woman see herbaby grieve her baby, hold her
baby, the research shows thatshe does better mentally
long-term grieving thanwondering if she made the right
(14:36):
choice.
Because ultimately what myhusband and I landed on was we
want to give her the best shotthat we would give our other
kids.
That we would give any healthybaby.
She deserves the same level ofcare and the same level of
dignity that our healthy boysdid.
(14:58):
And we just knew that was madein God's image and she was a,
she was worthy of being valued.
Tiffany (15:10):
How would you, counsel, a woman who's not getting the
type of support from herprovider.
In some of this initial stage ofjust looking for a provider
who's going to be able toprovide the type of care that
she needs for the rest of herpregnancy if she finds herself
in a similar situation as youwith jcs pregnancy.
Ryley Chestnut (15:31):
are amazing providers out there.
I live in the Dallas area and Iam connected pretty well with a
lot of the really good providersin the area.
And I have a list.
That I will send people and Iwill say, these are who are
gonna support your decision tocarry your baby.
(15:52):
And these are the people thatare going to give you actual
information and not just fearmongering and scare tactics, or
now that you know abortion isillegal in Texas.
We're telling women, I just hada mom two weeks ago that reached
out who was told she just needsto go to New Mexico and get a
(16:14):
termination for a baby like jc,whose condition is the same
thing.
that's what she was told was heronly option.
And so we talked and sheconnected with a better team of
providers.
And I know that there are.
A list of pro-life providersbased on what area you live in,
(16:37):
and I think that's where youstart.
I think you start with theproviders that are known to
support life and value life,even in a situation that maybe
is not a hundred percenthealthy, if that makes sense.
Tiffany (16:52):
Yeah.
That's a great, that is a greattip and I, I'm thinking about
something that you said earlierabout.
It's not just a problem to takecare of now or a problem to take
care of later, right?
It's not apples to apples.
It's not like, well, you couldeither have this terrible
traumatic experience now get itover with and not have to suffer
(17:13):
through the rest of yourpregnancy, or you could suffer
through your pregnancy and thenhave this terrible experience
later.
There's gonna be an element ofit, of course, because grief is
just.
A lot.
Experiencing that loss is a lot,but I don't think that's a
short, I'm not sure.
Would with your experience, isthat a shortcut?
Are you short-cutting anything?
Are you avoiding anything If youchoose to induce early and go
(17:38):
through that experience soonerthan later?
Ryley Chestnut (17:41):
what's really hard about this is I've now done
this for eight years.
And I have counseled numerouswomen on, you know, either
choosing to induce or choosingto terminate.
I've had many women choose toterminate and later come back to
me looking for resources on howthey heal from that, because
(18:05):
they have the guilt and theshame, versus knowing that I.
Gave this baby the best chancethat I could.
I think I've also met women whodidn't know that they could even
carry the term.
You know, that there is truly noinformed consent in some of
these situations.
(18:26):
It's truly just, you're justgonna do an induction now
because this baby is not gonnamake it, so you might as well do
it now.
And they don't even know whatthe other options are, you know?
So I think.
term to be done with it soonerrather than later is actually
causing more harm it is you togrieve and heal.
(18:50):
And I will say that, you know my20 weeks until she was born at
33 weeks, because my fluidlevels got to a point where it
Tiffany (19:00):
Something
Ryley Chestnut (19:00):
longer safe for me to carry.
And I
Tiffany (19:02):
possible.
Ryley Chestnut (19:03):
provider who knew that and who looked at me
and looked at my husband andsaid, Hey.
We're done now.
Her fluid was, my fluid was at47 and normal is about 16 at
that point in pregnancy.
And he said, now our risks haveincreased and we just need to
meet your daughter.
(19:24):
And gave us the weekend to, wehad a date night.
We went out with our friends whoalso had a daughter that had the
exact same condition.
That was born two years in, oneday jc.
So they were in our hospitalroom on their daughter's second
birthday and brought us cake andjust celebrated her.
(19:51):
And we had a whole team, sorry,I'm getting emotional.
Had a whole team of people that.
You know, my, my shtick wasWingstop when I was pregnant
with her, and I just ate all thewings, so many wings to the
point that everyone in ourchurch and our friends, they
(20:12):
were all eating Wingstop andusing a hashtag, celebrating her
life before she was even born.
And.
Wingstop ended up donating allof the food to her celebration
of life service that she had.
it was really just an awesomeexperience and I, those 13 weeks
(20:33):
were the most refining andincredible time.
And I can look back and go, man,I, I soaked up her pregnancy.
I got to know her The littleperson that she was, and I got
to really just enjoy that timewith her and wouldn't take back
(20:55):
a second of it.
And yes, it was hard and it wasexhausting to go out in public
with my two boys and the numberof people who said, oh, are you
getting a girl?
I would, you know, say yes, butshe doesn't get to come home
with us.
But that also opened so manydoors of other women crying to
me, talking about theirstillbirth that they never told
(21:18):
anyone about before because itwasn't talked about.
So there's just, I've never meta woman who
Tiffany (21:25):
Okay.
Ryley Chestnut (21:25):
to carry her baby as long as she could regret
it.
But I have met women who chosenot to and regret it every day.
Tiffany (21:35):
Sounds like a huge piece of women feeling able
unequipped and encouraged to dothat is their support system.
And so we talked about theprovider a little bit.
You are the lady in Dallas.
Tell us, tell us a little bitabout Labor of Hope and also
tell us about.
(21:56):
Like, let, let's kind of unpackthe term bereavement a little
bit and how women would locatesome, locate the lady like you
in their area or get connectedto some of those pieces so that
they can start to build supportaround options and
Ryley Chestnut (22:12):
Yeah,
Tiffany (22:13):
that.
Ryley Chestnut (22:14):
Labor of Hope provides doulas, photographers,
and celebration of life servicesall and other families like
connecting other familiestogether that have walked
similar paths.
All free of charge.
We're a nonprofit.
We rely solely on donor support.
And we, about six years ago,trained over a dozen doulas with
(22:41):
providing them with stillbirthday training and then a
weekend away where we, you know,went over what to do in a
bereavement birth and how thatlooks different from.
regular, regular doula role, Soas a bereavement doula, I am
(23:01):
doing a lot of the same doula
Tiffany (23:03):
Mentioned.
Ryley Chestnut (23:04):
coaching and emotional support and the
physical support, but also thebiggest piece of that is the
memory making side of it.
Once baby is born, sure thatwe're getting all the hand
prints, all the footprints.
You know, a lot of times we, weclip a little bit of baby's hair
and get thumbprints and toeprints and these memories,
(23:28):
they're not gonna get back.
You only have the time that youhave to create those memories
and also equipping people toknow, to ask for things like a
cooling co.
Right.
Something that most hospitalshave that will help preserve
baby's condition.
If you have family coming intotown to meet this baby, or a
(23:51):
photographer coming to dopictures, because for a lot of
these families, those are theonly pictures they're ever gonna
have, and those memories have tolast a lifetime.
A lifetime.
And so with doula, I think thebiggest difference is those
memories.
That have to carry them forever.
(24:11):
And so training more women onhow to support those families
Tiffany (24:16):
Awesome.
Ryley Chestnut (24:17):
And still birthday was the training that I
went through and that we put adozen women through in
Tiffany (24:25):
Planning.
Ryley Chestnut (24:26):
And if you go to their website, you can find a
doula that is still birthdaytrained near you.
That is the best place to go.
Even though we are located inDallas, I have supported women
in Ohio, in California, inTennessee all over.
The lost world is really smalland it's the club nobody wants
(24:48):
to be a part of, but once you'rea part of it, you're really
grateful.
And because of thoseconnections, I have been able to
help find support all over thecountry, which is.
Huge and just amazing.
Tiffany (25:04):
It's amazing and thank you.
Thank you for serving that way.
Thank you for caring.
Thank you for showing up in thatrole.
It would, it could have been soeasy to process that
independently and privately.
And instead there's so many thatgets to benefit from your story
and jcs story and.
(25:25):
You know, what we get to knowabout her and how that has, you
know, shaped you into the womanand mom that you are.
Tell us a little bit about someof the details of her birth, if
you feel like sharing, to givethe listeners an idea of.
How that went for you and some,and especially highlight for us,
ri like the auctions, thingsthat you chose, things that you
(25:49):
didn't, didn't have controlover, but wish you did.
Or the memory making the peoplethe, like, give us some of those
really tangible pieces too fromher birth.
Ryley Chestnut (26:02):
like I said a little bit ago, we went in for
one of our weekly ultrasounds.
I had already been strugglingwith high fluid, just, which is
very normal for anencephalicbabies and something that we
were monitoring pretty closely.
It was very large and veryuncomfortable at this point, and
I went in and that's when hesaid, you know, Hey, this is.
(26:22):
Now it's dangerous.
And of course my husband's like,all right, let's go right now.
And I was like, hold on, aminute.
And we spent the weekend, youknow, doing what I, I said
before and we went in on aSunday night on the 5th of June
and had a lot of our churchfamily there.
There.
(26:43):
Unbeknownst to me there was asignup genius.
we had people praying throughoutthe day and the night, all night
long.
The hospital commented that theyhad never seen a waiting room.
So full, needs were met before Ieven knew that I needed it.
I had, you know, kind ofjokingly in my very.
(27:07):
Sarcastic sense of humor alittle bit.
I said in one of our ladies'Bible classes, I said, does
anyone know of a funeral home?
Because I'm gonna need one.
one of the women at our churchemailed me and she had lost a
daughter a few years before andshe said, you know, this is
where we used, where we, youknow, had our daughter taken
(27:29):
care of and we would love to goand set that up for you.
I didn't know that was anoption.
I never had to step foot insideof the funeral home.
Someone went and got all thepaperwork, it to us at the
hospital, helped us filleverything out, and literally
just signed it.
They paid for it.
(27:50):
nothing.
And so when we went in to haveher, we had all of that done
ahead of time, which I think isalso one of the roles of a
bereavement doula that no onereally knows is having someone
that knows.
What you need to take care ofahead of time and the questions
to ask like about the deathcertificate and about the
(28:10):
funeral home, and getting all ofthat set up because the day that
that baby is born, all you wantto do is focus on the baby and
that's it.
Right?
And so we went in the nightbefore they
Tiffany (28:22):
Why.
Ryley Chestnut (28:23):
induction because my fluid levels were so
high, my uterus was not so happywith some of the medications
that they were giving.
And so we ended up kind ofhaving to do things really slow
and then eventually they brokemy water and I had requested to
have monitoring the whole time.
(28:43):
is something that, you know,again, the doula is gonna tell
you to do because a lot ofproviders will say, we're not
gonna monitor because this babyis not gonna survive.
So why would we monitor babyright now?
I knew that I wanted to meet herwhile she was still alive.
And so we advocated for themonitoring and when they broke
(29:06):
my water, about 24 hours after Iwent in, she went into distress.
And our plan all along was thatif she went into distress, I
wanted to
Tiffany (29:15):
So.
Ryley Chestnut (29:15):
a C-section.
And you know, at this point Iwas probably four centimeters
dilated, so not close to havinga baby at all.
And
Tiffany (29:25):
So.
Ryley Chestnut (29:25):
for me, also being unable to have an
epidural.
And knowing that I was feelingeverything happening and wasn't
gonna get to take this babyhome, when they said that she
was in distress, I said, okay,I'm done.
ahead and just do the C-section.
And was no pushback, which Ilater found out at another birth
(29:48):
that that doctor was given alittle bit of grief for doing a
C-section on me, she just keptrepeating, this is what the
patient wanted.
is what she wanted and we'regonna respect that.
And I declined any medication tomake me kind of loopy that they
normally will give you.
Before we knew that I would haveto have general anesthesia
(30:10):
because of my back.
so we
Tiffany (30:13):
I hear.
Ryley Chestnut (30:14):
ahead of time and we knew that that was
something that was gonna have tohappen.
And so, you know, we, we wentback for the C-section.
They put me under, my husbandgot to be in the room, which
again was something I didn'tknow I had to ask for until
after the fact because normallyin a general anesthesia,
(30:35):
C-section, spouses are notallowed and they made the
exception.
They let my husband be backthere with me and woke me up
before we left the OR she wasstill alive and she lived for 51
minutes.
Yes.
And one of the other things thatwe advocated for was suctioning
(30:58):
her.
they're not gonna do extremelifesaving measures, but doing
something to give her the mosttime.
Again, I didn't know that thatwas an option, and that was
something that we talked aboutbeforehand with other lost
families.
And then of course, my doula.
so.
They suctioned her a little bit.
(31:18):
The NICU doctors did.
Everybody was very respectful.
And it is a complete miraclethat I remember everything after
general anesthesia, you know, Iwoke up and was a little bit
loopy and obviously in a lot ofpain because I didn't have an
epidural and I just had majorabdominal surgery.
(31:39):
So I woke up and they took meback to the room, which was.
Full of people.
My mom was there.
My boys came up almostimmediately when they made the
call that we were gonna have theC-section.
So my older boys that are nowalmost 15 and 12, they were five
and two at the time.
(32:01):
So they came up there and it wasjust an incredible time.
And that sounds so strange.
Considering the circumstances,but at the same time, I asked
the questions, I had the supportand I knew what to advocate for,
and because of that, we gotthose 51 minutes I have memories
(32:25):
of holding her and loving on herand the pictures and the
memories that have to last meforever.
Tiffany (32:33):
So good.
That's so good.
There's so much goodnessthreaded into something that is
otherwise quite terrible.
Right?
Quite awful, quite sad.
Over like devastating,overwhelmingly devastating in
some ways.
And yet we can still use ourvoices and our advocacy and our
choices and and.
(32:54):
And, and have the bestexperience possible.
It's worth it.
It's worth it to have the bestexperience possible when it's
you know, less than one hourwith your child on earth.
Tell me a thank you for sharingjcs story.
Thank you so much for sharingthat and weaving in those, those
pieces.
Exactly like I asked you to,giving people options and
(33:17):
helping them understand choicesand what to ask for.
Tell me a little bit about.
How that changes for the womanwho is going into her birth and
her baby's already passed.
Ryley Chestnut (33:29):
I think with stillborn babies, you know,
there, it's a very quietenvironment it's very obvious
when that baby is being born,how quiet the room is and.
I am hyper aware and telling myclients that are experiencing
(33:52):
this to fill that room with, youknow, whether it's positive
affirmations, whether it'sworship music, whether it's any
sort of music even, you know,I've had one client that had a
stillborn baby and had to have aC-section and we had the, or.
(34:13):
With the most peaceful, calmingmusic requesting that when the
baby is born, that we still say,Hey, ba, the, the head is out,
baby is out, baby is here.
If that baby has a name, usingthat baby's name really, really
gentle with the baby's skin,Being super careful with.
(34:37):
The integrity of that baby,treating that baby like it is a
living baby talking to the babylike it is a living baby the
baby's name.
We often do saline baths.
I don't know if you're familiarwith that, but can get a big tub
and fill it with saline and ithelps preserve baby's condition.
(35:02):
And you can also have some ofthe most beautiful pictures.
Because of the saline.
And so walking alongside nursesand doctors and telling them
these things, you know, I'vealways had most amazing
experiences in those scenarioswhere they're super respectful
(35:23):
and want to do everything thatthe family wants.
And as soon as I walk into asituation like that, I'm
gathering up supplies.
I'm making sure that we've gotthe stuff for the hand prints,
we've got the stuff for thefootprints.
We, you know, still have thebirth announcement that you get
(35:44):
when your normal healthy babyarrives.
Right?
So still treating that baby withdignity and knowing that yes,
this looks different.
And then also asking if theyhave the cooling co.
Something that's gonna helppreserve baby's condition long
term if a photographer couldn'tbe there right away.
(36:06):
I've even had nurses takepictures with their phone or
take it with a hospital cameraand give, you know, the family
an SD card.
So all the dignity for thosesweet babies and celebrating
their life.
Tiffany (36:21):
Thank you for sharing that.
I mean each circumstance isquite nuanced, right?
And it's impossible to give.
Recommendations for somethingacross the board, like normal
live birth is too, I mean,that's, we're talking about the,
we're talking about the sameevent here.
What do you see as being likereally beautiful truths that
(36:44):
overlap, that just encompassbirth in general?
What can bereavement birth belike?
And how can we, how can weapproach that in, in the way
that like, it's still birth,it's still a huge experience for
your family.
It's still this person in yourfamily, it's still a member of
(37:07):
your family.
What are some other, what aresome other things that women can
be considering?
Just universal truths of birth
Ryley Chestnut (37:15):
biggest thing that I see is, you know, in my
line of doula work, outside ofbereavement, I am primarily
focused on out of hospital, onmedicated birth.
And so in the cases where wehave a woman whose baby is still
born, or a situation like jcs, alot of times those women still
(37:38):
want that really peacefulenvironment.
And I think sometimes we tellthem like, no, no, just get your
epidural.
It's, it's already hard enough.
You don't need to make it harderon yourself.
You don't get a prize, you don'tget a medal for doing it
Unmedicated.
No, we can still value theirchoices and their birth and what
(38:00):
they want.
We can still give them apositive birth experience that
looks exactly like what theywanted before.
Just because the circumstanceshave changed doesn't mean their
entire birth has to go the door.
Right?
(38:21):
You can still have a beautifulunmedicated birth.
For a baby with a terminaldiagnosis, if that's what you
want, you can still have abeautiful unmedicated birth for
a stillborn baby.
I did one last year and that wasstill something that was so
important to her.
And even if, you know, she hadto go from out of hospital to
(38:44):
hospital and she still wantedthem to let her know when
Tiffany (38:48):
To.
Ryley Chestnut (38:49):
was there and unmedicated, you know.
But she still wanted that baby'sarrival to be announced like it
would be in a healthy birth,right?
And so there are so many thingsthat you're stripped of when you
get a terminal diagnosis or whenyou find out that your baby is
no longer with you.
(39:09):
So why can't we keep a lot ofthe same preferences and desires
the same, even in something thatmaybe is not gonna go the way
that you initially pictured.
And I think a lot of women finda lot of value in that.
It gives them, empowers them, itgives that baby dignity, and it
(39:30):
gives them just peace when it'sall said and done.
Tiffany (39:35):
Thank you.
Thanks for caring about that andsharing that with women and
making it making it worth, worthtalking about, worth asking for.
And it's, yeah, it's just a,it's still a really important
event.
You still.
Have control over a lot ofpieces, especially as it go as
(39:56):
it pertains to how you get tolook back on that day and how
you feel about that day and thatevent.
Like it is, it's worth havingthe things about it that you
wanted to in your experience, doyou.
S well, so it sounds like withjcs birth specifically, you said
(40:16):
that there were people who justwere coming out of the woodwork.
It was just you were justgetting completely surrounded
and cared for with so manypieces that you couldn't have
even thought of yourself.
I love that for you.
I'm so glad that was yourexperience, and it's a beautiful
way that we should be encouragedas a community because this,
(40:37):
this discussion, this message isnot just for women who have
experienced this type ofpregnancy loss or infant loss.
This is a, this is a discussionand a conversation that needs,
that everybody needs to be awareof and have because we are
responsible as.
Community members for otherwomen who experience it to show
(40:59):
up Well, right.
Talk.
Talk to that piece.
Talk to that woman who'slistening now ri and share.
How do we, how do we show up asa community?
How do we, how?
Not everybody is going to beable to say what they need in
this situation.
Not everyone's gonna feelcomfortable asking for help.
(41:22):
Not everybody, not, not the, thebystander, the onlooker might
not feel comfortable, which isthat, that's a whole different
discussion.
Right.
But what is the responsibilityas the community members once we
know that somebody we know isgoing to walk through an
experience like this or hasrecently?
(41:42):
What do, what do we need to knowas a community?
Ryley Chestnut (41:46):
wants, we all wanna relate.
wants to have that common groundwith your friends or the people
that are around you.
And so.
For women that have neverexperienced miscarriage or
pregnancy loss or stillbirthinfant loss, they don't feel
like they can say anythingbecause they've never walked it
(42:07):
themselves.
Right?
But the best thing you can do isbe there, just show up.
You don't have the right words,even, you know, even somebody
who has experienced it.
The way that my story was isdifferent from one of my dear
friends who also walked almostthe exact same thing and the way
(42:28):
that she processed it wasdifferent.
That doesn't make mine right andhers wrong, or hers wrong, and
you know, whatever.
It different for every singleperson.
And the best thing you can do isshow up.
there, you know, it is anuncomfortable topic for a lot of
(42:49):
people.
And media has done amazingthings in connecting women that
are walking through loss.
But some of my closest friendsthroughout that journey were
women who had never experiencedit, who showed up and didn't
feel like they needed to sayanything.
(43:09):
They just showed up.
to take my kids to the park.
They, I didn't cook for like asolid year.
Literally didn't cook for ayear.
a cooler on my porch for thedays that I didn't feel like I
wanted to talk to people, andpeople dropped off food.
People took my boys to the park.
(43:30):
People you know, just said, Hey,I'm praying for you.
I still have a card from one ofmy dear friends from church.
And one of the things that sheput in the card was, always be a
girl mom.
And at that point, I had twoboys and I had no living
daughter.
I have a living daughter now,but that little statement right
(43:55):
there, almost 10 years laterstill something that makes me
tear up.
And she didn't even rememberwriting it.
I told her a couple months ago,I'm like, do you even remember
this?
And something that you see asinsignificant is maybe gonna
mean the world to her.
(44:15):
her baby.
Don't show up and think that wejust don't, we don't need to
talk about it.
We don't need to talk about it.
I, no, it's okay to bring it up.
I guarantee you, you're notmaking her think about something
that she wasn't already thinkingabout.
Right.
She's been thinking about it.
If that baby has a name, use thebaby's name.
(44:38):
Include that baby in theirfamily lineup.
My greatest honor is being J C'sMom.
Yes.
I have five other living kidsnow, when someone says, this is
J C's mom, that's still huge.
So no one's gonna have the rightthings to say, show up.
(44:59):
You don't even have to show upwith food.
Just show up, encouragement,offer, you know, help with their
older children if they havethem, or just sit with them and
also be able to do, you know, mydearest friends were the ones
that could talk about jc, butthen could also talk about
normal life, because I still hadtwo boys.
(45:20):
I still, you know, homeschooled.
I still did normal day-to-daylife.
And I didn't need to just alwayscry.
Some days I needed to cry, andthen I needed to be the
ridiculous person that I am.
having the freedom to do thatwith my safe people was huge.
Tiffany (45:39):
Yeah.
Just show up or just be present.
Right.
Just be a person who's willingto be present in it and simply
saying, I.
I'm here for you.
I'm thinking about you.
I'm praying for you.
That's enough.
That's enough.
If you don't feel like you're,like, you have a close enough
relationship to get in there,you know, with them just
(46:01):
reaching out and letting themknow that you're thinking about
them, that you love their baby,just for the fact that their
baby's life has value to you andvalue to the fam, value to your
family, right?
Like, I mean.
That's really simple.
That's something everybody cando.
Ryley Chestnut (46:19):
I think
Tiffany (46:19):
You.
Ryley Chestnut (46:20):
about a whole of.
Feeling like we need to say theright thing and we don't wanna
say the wrong thing.
guilty of saying the wrong thingall the time in lost situations
or unhealthy situations.
Don't overthink it.
You probably don't have theright thing to say and you might
say something that's wrong, butat the end of the day, what they
(46:43):
remember is that you showed up.
Tiffany (46:45):
You mentioned still birthday as a resource, like a
more of a, more of like anational resource that women can
go to.
What are some of your otherfavorite resources that might be
a book or a podcast or anInstagram account or something
that you think is really nailingthis conversation for women who
want to keep learning and keepgetting more support?
Ryley Chestnut (47:07):
I love now I lay me down to sleep, which is an
organization that'll takepictures after a certain
gestation, maybe 24 weeks, or, Idon't know a hundred percent,
but they've got photographersnationwide and a hotline that
you can call for support.
That is a great resource.
(47:28):
have always loved Bridget'sCradles for second trimester
loss.
They are in most hospitals now,at least in the Dallas area, and
that is just a beautiful way tohonor those babies that are born
in the second trimester, whichsometimes I think get less
resources for.
(47:50):
And she has a book that she justcame out with called Cradled in
Hope.
That is fantastic.
I love Mother of Wild is onInstagram and they have prints
for loss and for miscarriages.
And I think even Healthy babies,they've got birth prints.
(48:12):
But that is something that eachand every Labor of Hope client
gets a birth print after theirbaby is born with their birth
details and everything.
And books.
I mean, I love The Hope Mommiesis another organization that is
also nationwide, that has groupsthat meet all over for
(48:33):
miscarriage, infant loss menmommies enduring, mothers
enduring neonatal I thinksomething like that.
That's another great resource.
There are so many groups outthere that connect women and so
many great like Bible studiesand books, and that's one thing
that when you walk this, you'regiven at least, I was given
(48:56):
bazillion brochures andpamphlets and suggestions, and
my all time favorite book is aNancy Guthrie book.
And it's hearing Jesus speak inyour sorrow.
She lost two babies and thatbook was one that I gift every
single person that is walkingloss because it's just
(49:17):
incredible.
Tiffany (49:18):
Thank you there.
There's so many so many.
Places where women can, I thinkmost importantly, just get some
more support, not feel quite soalone or in and isolated and
like, this is only happening toyou before because everyone else
is so uncomfortable talkingabout it.
And like you've said, we might,we very well might know women
(49:41):
who have experienced stillbirthand or infant loss and not had.
Never told their story.
It's not a part of the way thatthey introduce themselves or
their families or how, you know,getting to know somebody.
And so it's just good.
It's good to hear the differentways that women are able to
process and get some support.
(50:02):
If you, Riley had like a partingstatement for the women who are
listening, who are experiencinga loss like this.
To anticipate the hope that isto come because of what you have
experienced yourself.
You know that there's a placewhere it doesn't feel the way
(50:23):
that it did on the days that youhad to process the overwhelming
amount of, of grief.
I'm sure that, i'm sure that youstill have days where it does
feel overwhelming and hits youand feels really heavy and hard,
but what you have shared in thisinterview so far is a lot of
hope.
And so what do you, what can youshare with women who are
(50:47):
listening right now who don'tfeel hopeful about their own
situation?
Ryley Chestnut (50:51):
One, I tell everybody I wish I could give
you a five year out of what thislooks like and if you allow this
baby story, whether it'smiscarriage, stillbirth, story
like mine, infant loss, if youallow that story to be shared,
(51:12):
you will be tremendously blessedby what comes out of it.
I.
And nine years out and almost adecade, which is insane.
I still look back at picturesthat are in my home and think,
did I really do that?
Was that really something that Idid?
(51:34):
And I'm always blown away by theway, God has used it.
You're not alone.
There are women all over.
The country that are walkingsomething that nobody wants to
walk, wants to do this.
I wouldn't ask for this, but Ialso wouldn't take it back.
(51:57):
I wouldn't because the way thatI value my family, the way that
I value my children, everyaspect of my life is changed
because of jc and first year is.
Hard.
hard and it's, it was ugly.
(52:18):
It was ugly at times.
I had friendships that I saidthings that I probably shouldn't
have said in my grief, and Ihave amazing friends who showed
me so much grace and loved mereally well through some really,
really hard seasons.
don't lose hope your story.
(52:41):
Because one day you're gonnalook back and you're gonna
think, wow, I did something thatI never thought I could do.
And look what happened becauseof it.
Allow your story to be shared,because it's shared, it connects
more women to more resources andfeeling less alone and knowing
(53:06):
that.
This is a huge part of thereason that I do what I do.
I wouldn't do what I do withoutJC and I wouldn't be the mom
that I am without jc.
But that first year was realhard and after that, I felt like
I could kind of slowly back thepieces of who the new Riley was.
(53:30):
'cause I'm not the same Riley,I'm not the same wife, I'm not
the same mom.
But man, God did some incrediblethings and it's just something
that I am tremendously gratefulfor.
So when it feels like there's nohope, and just hard, and it's
just awful, lean into that oneday the sun will come out again
(53:54):
and you'll feel like this wasworth something.
If it changed one baby's story,if it changed one mom, if it
allowed mom to one mom to justfeel like this baby had dignity,
it was all worth it.
Tiffany (54:11):
Amen.
Thank you.
I'm gonna end us on that'causethere's nothing better to end..
Thank you.
Ryley Chestnut (54:18):
for having me.
I am so grateful that I was ableto share with you, and this was
just incredible.
Hey ladies, if you're loving theshow and want to help us keep it
ad free so we can keep talkingabout all things birth and
women's health, without cuttingto an ad about electrolytes or
(54:39):
grass fed beef sticks, here ishow you can support us.
First, leave us a quick reviewor a rating.
It helps more women, new moms,and birth enthusiasts find our
show.
And it honestly means so much tous to be reminded that you love
what we are doing here.
Second, share this episode witha friend, with a doula buddy, or
(55:00):
anyone who is on their ownholistic health or natural birth
journey.
And third hop on our newsletterlist.
This is where we share.
Bonus goodies behind the scenesstuff.
Fun little extras you just won'thear on the show.
You can find that link to joinin our show notes below.
Thanks so much for being a partof this growing empowered
(55:21):
community.
We could not do it without you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.