June 7, 2025 • 42 mins
The essence of this episode is a heartfelt tribute to the late Paul Kirk, revered as the Baron of Barbecue, who passed away on May 26, leaving behind a profound legacy in the culinary world. As we reflect upon his remarkable contributions and distinctive style, we are privileged to revisit one of our previous interviews with him, showcasing his vibrant personality and profound passion for barbecue. Throughout his illustrious career, Paul garnered numerous accolades, including over 500 awards and seven world championships, establishing himself as a true icon in competitive barbecue. His approach to cooking, characterized by creativity and heartfelt dedication, resonates deeply with both seasoned chefs and home cooks alike. In honoring Paul’s legacy, we invite our listeners to appreciate the art of barbecue and the joy it brings to both the cook and the community.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Kansas City Bullsheet
- National Barbecue News
- CBS
- Anthony Bourdain's Rest His Soul
- Painted Hills Natural Beef
- Hammerstahl
- Heritage Steel
Mentioned in this episode:
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This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
It's time for Barbecue Nationwith JT.
So fire up your grill, light the.
Charcoal, and get your smoker cooking.
Now, from the Turnit DoughBurnett studios In Portland, here's
J.T.
Hi, everybody.
It's J.T.
here.
As many of you probablyalready know, we lost one of the
greats in the barbecue world,Paul Kirk, known as the Baron of
(00:35):
Barbecue, back on May 26.
Paul had had some healthproblems for a while, and he was
84 years old.
I was fortunate enough tointerview Paul on Barbecue Nation
several times over the years.
So in honor of Paul and hiscontributions to barbecue, I thought
we would rerun one of theshows that Paul was on.
(00:59):
Always a character, always alot of fun, and I think, truly, Paul
cooked with his heart.
So I hope you enjoy this.
And like I said, this is tohonor Paul Kirk and his life.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to the nation.
That would be the Barbecue Nation.
I'm JT along with producer Dave.
Hi.
Atop the radio Barbecue Worldin downtown Portland.
(01:21):
And we want to say hello toall of our affiliates out there on
the Radio Northwest Network.
So if I told you there wassomebody that's kind of been known
for a while as the Kansas CityBaron of Barbecue, you might look
at me and say, huh?
But it's true.
We've got Paul Kirk with us today.
(01:42):
Paul is one of the mostwinning people in competitive barbecue.
He's got a very storiedhistory, you might say, and all in
a good way.
He also has written columnsfor the Kansas City Bullsheet, National
Barbecue News.
He's been on CBS this Morning,Anthony Bourdain's Rest His Soul
in the search of a perfect meal.
(02:04):
Paul's been around for acouple of weeks, and he's won over
500 awards, seven worldchampionships at least from what
I can see here.
And so we welcome him.
Welcome to Barbecue Nation, Paul.
Thank you.
Good to be here.
So I would hazard a guess thatyou're already cooking something
(02:26):
this morning.
Well, I just put on 16 slabsof ribs and 10 chickens.
Is that for consumption or for competition?
That is for consumption.
That Sunday, we're going tocelebrate what would have been my
mother's hundredth birthday.
She only made it to 99 in 9months, God rest her soul.
(02:52):
So.
But we're all getting together.
I've got five sisters and abrother, and the whole family's coming
in, so I'm cooking for that.
Let me guess.
Because I have this situationin my life, people invite you to
parties and situations, othergatherings like that, but they always
want you to cook something.
(03:13):
Sometimes a lot of people I'veeven run into, well, I'm never inviting
you over.
I says, for dinner?
I said, why not?
Well, you're a chef, you'regoing to critique what I do.
I says, I enjoy food too muchto critique it.
You kidding me?
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
(03:33):
Once in a while you getinvited someplace and they say, well,
just, you know, sit down andhave a Pepsi or a beer or whatever
you want.
And you?
I kind of feel lost sometimes.
When that happens, it's likenobody loves me anymore.
Yes.
So let's talk a little bit about.
How did you first get startedin turning and burning there on the
(03:56):
grills?
Was it something you startedas a kid or something you picked
up later in life?
No, as a kid.
My dad, he comes from a large family.
We have a large family.
My mom comes from a large family.
And, you know, every summer,whether it's grandma and grandpa's
birthday or somebody'sbirthday or the holidays, we would
(04:18):
always grill out, you know, inour backyard.
Sure.
And back then, when I started,which was I was nine years old, my
dad would buy two and down ribs.
And buy what?
Spare ribs.
Yeah.
Okay.
(04:38):
And now the smallest you canget is what, 4.7 and down.
So hogs have grown since then,but he barbecued a lot, and I don't
know that I paid that much attention.
Fortunately, I have a lot ofGod given talent, thanks to my mother
(04:59):
and father.
They were both good cooks, aswere my grandmothers.
And I've just loved to cook.
And, you know, people say, oh,you've done this, you've done.
I just doing what I love to do.
I mean, I enjoy cooking, youknow, and people ask me, well, how
can you come up with so many recipes?
I said, I make them up.
(05:21):
That's what's the fun of it.
I've even sent recipes into contests.
Never made them and placed orwon the contest.
They're wise to that nowbecause if you get in a lot of these
contests, you have to send apicture of it in also.
Oh, yeah.
So, yeah.
(05:41):
But no, I just enjoy what I do.
I enjoy teaching it.
You know, people, you know,people have asked me for recipes
and I've had people say, well,you won't.
You'll leave something out.
I said, I build a reputationof good food, good quality food.
I would never sabotage food orleaving an ingredient out of a recipe.
(06:04):
I want you to be better than I am.
And then back in the earlydays, somebody figured that 85% of
the ribbons won at theAmerican Royal were my students,
and people asked me, doesn'tthat bother you that your students
beat you?
I said, no.
That's what it's all about.
(06:26):
You know, that's kind of areally nice accolade to you, really.
Oh, I agree.
Yeah.
That they come out and theybeat, quote the master.
I don't think anybody couldgive you higher praise than that.
I agree.
Yeah.
So how is the road turned, ifyou will?
(06:46):
And I use that as kind of justa catchphrase here.
But since you started, and youstarted back with, you know, at the
original Kansas City BarbecueSociety and all that stuff that's
happened, because you're rightthere in the middle of the country
and, you know, Carolyn Wellsand her husband and this whole group,
and you guys worked on allthis, and you sat on the board for
years.
How is that road kind ofchanged or changed directions or,
(07:12):
you know, fingered out intoother highways?
Well, I would say not for thebetter, but that's my opinion.
And, you know, everybody hasan opinion.
So we won't go there.
The.
See, I will not cookingaluminum foil.
To me, that's heresy.
(07:32):
They say that.
That I coined the word Texas crutch.
I don't believe I did.
Now, I started off in.
My first contest was theAmerican Royal in 1981, which was
the second one.
I didn't know about the first one.
So I've been to every AmericanRoyal since then.
Sure.
And I don't always cook, or Imay be on a team now.
(07:56):
I volunteer.
And I was a volunteer down for23 years before we got dismissed
by the new director.
But I still cooked it.
I don't know.
To me, barbecue's gonna take a while.
You know, if I know I have tojust like today, I have to set aside
(08:16):
six hours.
Cause I have those spare ribson there.
Four hours for my chicken.
I know I have to be here andwatch it and restock the pit.
And so I put that time away.
Now, if I wrap it in foil, Icould, you know, cut some time off.
(08:40):
What I think is funny is thethree, two, one method to cook ribs.
You cook them for three hourson the pit.
Then you wrap them in foilwith some sauce or a liquid and steam
them for two hours.
Then you pull them out of thefoil and put them back on your pit
(09:00):
for another hour to try to getsome of that flavor you just steamed
away.
They're fall off the bone.
And number one, I don't likefall off the bone.
I want some texture to my food.
Yep.
So.
And I'm Only going to cook myspare ribs.
You know, these are.
Were larger than I wanted, butthat's what I have.
(09:22):
So when you buy them by the case.
Sure.
So.
Well, I'm only gonna cook themfive and a half, six hours anyway.
So other than them being realtender, what advantage did that give
you?
Lost a lot of flavor.
Well, I don't like my barbecuetasting like it went through a car
(09:46):
wash, so.
Amen.
You know, now I do.
If I'm short on time and I'mdoing a gathering of people and stuff,
I will wrap a brisket.
I never.
Well, that's a differentsituation now.
Yeah, but I've never.
I'll never wrap ribs.
Ribs, to me, are kind of likethe sacred ground.
(10:07):
I mean, I know everybody.
Everybody gets all hopped up about.
About brisket and stuff, butif you.
If, you know, to me, ribs arelike the sacred barbecue thing.
Anyway, that's just my thoughts.
Hey, we're going to take abreak, but before we do, excuse me.
I wanted to remind you thatthis portion of Barbecue Nation is
brought to you in part byPainted Hills Natural Beef.
(10:28):
Beef just like your grandpaused to raise.
You can check them out onlineat painted hillsnaturalbeef.com and
I can give you a personalrecommendation for that brand of
beef products, because I'vebeen eating it for years and cooking
it for years, and it's really good.
We're gonna take a break.
We're gonna be back with PaulKirk right after this.
Don't.
(10:52):
I don't want you lonelymansion with a tear in every room
all I lost to love youpromised bring me the halo moon.
But you think.
I should be happy with yourmoney and your name.
(11:13):
Hi, everybody.
It's JT here.
As many of you probablyalready know, we lost one of the
greats in the barbecue world,Paul Kirk, known as the Baron of
Barbecue, back on May 26.
Paul had had some healthproblems for a while, and he was
84 years old.
I was fortunate enough tointerview Paul on Barbecue Nation
(11:37):
several times over the years.
So in honor of Paul and hiscontributions to barbecue, I thought
we would rerun one of theshows that Paul was on.
Always a character, always alot of fun, and I think truly, Paul
cooked with his heart.
So I hope you enjoy this.
And like I said, this is tohonor Paul Kirk and his life.
(12:11):
Hey, everybody, it's Jeff here.
I want to tell you aboutsomething really cool.
Heritage steel cookware.
I just got mine.
I do a lot of cooking, andit's got five ply construction.
Stay cool.
Handles, it's titanium strengthened.
It's got all the great stuff.
Just go to HeritageSteel usand find out more.
You'll love it, I guarantee it.
(12:34):
This is an encore.
Hey, welcome back to Barbecue Nation.
I'm JT and Dr.
Dave's out doing somethingprobably illicit with his Camaro,
but we're never sure about that.
If you'd like to email us,it's BBQ Nation.
The letter is BBQ Nation.
AlphaMedia USA.com youm canalways find the podcasts of our shows
(12:55):
on the SoundCloud and other platforms.
We've got a ton of platformsthat they're on out there now.
And just go to Barbecue Nationwith jt.
Same thing with Facebook andoh, couple of special affiliates
this week.
KWRO and Coospay and KPNW and Eugene.
We'd like to thank them.
Now, before we get back toPaul, real quick, several weeks ago
(13:18):
we had chef Todd Tobin on who griddles.
That's with two Ds.
Okay.
And the nice folks atBlackstone griddle sent us a 17 inch
portable griddle to give awayon the show.
So here's your question, butyou have to email me the answer.
You can't call me.
You have to email me the answer.
Okay.
(13:39):
Last week we had a young manon here.
He was an army veteran.
His name was Jason Lorraine.
I feel no matter what happens.
Sorry about that.
That's all right.
Just hang on a sec.
Last week on the show we had ayoung man named Jason Lorraine, an
Army veteran, and he has abarbecue business down in Salem,
Oregon.
Okay, what was the name of his company?
(14:03):
You email me the name of hiscompany at Barbecue Nation.
That's BBQnationlphamediasa.com and then we'll
pick from the winners, thepeople that got the correct answer.
And here's a hint, if you needhelp, if you can't remember, go to
the SoundCloud and look up theshow with Jason Lorraine.
Okay, now we've got that outof the way.
We're back talking with PaulKirk, one of the true icons in the
(14:26):
world of barbecue.
And I wanted to ask you something.
Cause I've actually done this.
I didn't write a book aboutbarbecue, but I wrote a cookbook.
How long does it normally takeyou to write a cookbook?
You've written what, 12 of them?
Yes.
Well, I've co written or co written.
Yeah.
And my biggest problem is I'vegot five more on my computer.
(14:47):
Oh, don't have a publisher,but that's another Story, I'm gonna
say it takes a good year.
I had a friend who.
He taught at a junior college,Johnson County Community College
here.
And he retired.
He said, I'm.
He's very big in the Chef's association.
I used to be also.
(15:08):
And he said, I'm retiring.
I'm gonna write a cookbook.
I saw him about.
Oh, good.
Six, eight months later.
And I didn't realize how muchwork it is.
You know, people think it'sjust recipes.
Well, there's a lot more to itthan just the recipes.
Oh, yeah.
So.
(15:29):
But I enjoy doing recipes, so I'm.
Fortunately, I've always been.
It's easy for me to do recipesand make stuff up.
And people ask me, what spicedoesn't go with what spice?
I said, well, I really haven'tfound any spice that doesn't go with
another spice.
I see.
You know, there's some thatyou mix them, and I don't know if
(15:51):
I like that.
Right.
But, you know, don't.
Just because a little spiceworks doesn't mean a whole lot more
is going to make it even better.
Normally, it just masks theflavor that you're trying to get.
So, you know, things like thatthat you have to learn.
One of the things I wanted totalk to you about, Paul, was, you
(16:12):
know, one thing.
You've heard this many times.
I've heard it many times, andwe were just talking about spices
there.
So people say, you know, Ilike a little kick in my flavoring.
I get that.
But.
And this kind of sounds alittle cliche, but it really.
If you've cooked long enough,you know exactly what.
And I know, you know, Paul,but the listeners, if you're masking
(16:36):
the meat and all you can tasteis the spice, or if it's.
Especially if it's got thequote unquote kick to it, so all
you're tasting is the heat andnot the meat.
I don't think you've done yourjob right.
I agree.
That's my feelings on that.
The.
Who is it?
Out in Eugene, black man has a.
(17:01):
Had a car dealers or a garageand then opened up his barbecue.
Oh, Campbell's.
Was it Campbell's?
No, no, not Campbell's.
That's Portland.
I can't remember.
His name's Gene, but I can'tthink of his last name.
(17:23):
Anyway, he has the man, the sauce.
First time I tasted it, Imean, it was hot.
And I like hot things.
But there again, I'm like you.
I want to enjoy my food.
I don't want to taste Somefood, and it just burns me out.
And I can't taste anything forhalf hour, 45 minutes, right?
And he used to.
(17:44):
Every time I go in there withBob Lyon, they say, paul, you want
to try the.
The Man?
I said, gene, I've alreadytried it.
And all this now is hot.
It has very little flavor.
And, you know, like I said,I'm like you.
I don't mind a little kick toit, but I want to taste the food
I'm eating.
(18:05):
I think when you've done yourjob right, you chew on whatever you're
chewing on.
Let's just say it's a piece ofbrisket and you're tasting the meat
and all that.
And then the heat comes,technically, kind of after you swallow.
You know what I mean?
You're kind of.
You got that, and then youkind of feel the heat and you go,
man, that's pretty good, you know?
Yeah.
But when you pop it in yourmouth and you feel like you just
(18:26):
took a hot Kingsford briquetteand stuffed it in there, it's.
It's not very good.
It doesn't work very good.
I like that analogy.
Well, feel free to use it.
But, I mean, I've done thatwhere people.
And then, of course, I've gotpeople that.
(18:48):
I don't know if you'd reallycall them friends, but they kind
of sucker punch you once in awhile and say, here, try this.
And you take a bite of it and it's.
And then all of a sudden, justwithin seconds, it's like, boom.
And it's like, you really can't.
You know, I don't know.
I'm getting older, and so Iguess I'm getting more fussy.
Paul.
But it's just one of thosethings that I think if you balance
(19:12):
the heat with the meat, thenyou're doing okay, you know?
I agree.
So we've got about 40 secondsbefore we have to go to break here.
What's just kind of a realshort sentence?
What's your favorite thing toactually barbecue?
Duck.
Duck.
Yeah.
Well, you'd be popular outhere with the Oregon Ducks crowd,
(19:33):
I'll tell you that.
Right.
University of Oregon.
Because I was a beaver guy,and I've never heard anybody barbecuing
beaver, but that's.
I beg your pardon.
I have.
Have you really?
We did.
Beaver sausage.
Good for you.
How was.
Was good?
Was it.
You know, but getting peopleto taste it once you told them what
(19:54):
it was, that was the difficult part.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it actually scoredsecond in a barbecue contest.
Oh, my word.
They didn't know what it was.
It's very red meat.
Yeah, well, I know that way.
We're going to take a break.
We're going to be back withPaul Kirk, the baron of barbecue
from Kansas City.
And actually, truly, Paul'sone of the most winning guys, if
(20:17):
not the most winning guy at barbecue.
So in the competition side.
We'll be back in just a minute.
Hey, everybody, it's JT And Ihave eaten.
If you've ever looked at me,you know that.
But I have eaten seafood allover the world, and I can tell you
(20:39):
there's no place better thanhere in Oregon and our Dungeness
crab.
If you want to learn moreabout Oregon Dungeness crab, just
go to oregondungeness.org findout how to cook it, how to catch
it, where to buy it, and thesustainability of what they're doing
there in the Oregon Crab Commission.
Check it out.
(21:09):
Hi, everybody.
It's JT here.
As many of you probablyalready know, we lost one of the
greats in the barbecue world,Paul Kirk, known as the Baron of
Barbecue, back on May 26.
Paul had had some healthproblems for a while, and he was
84 years old.
I was fortunate enough tointerview Paul on Barbecue Nation
(21:32):
several times over the years.
So in honor of Paul and hiscontributions to barbecue, I thought
we would rerun one of theshows that Paul was on.
Always a character, always alot of fun, and I think, truly, Paul
cooked with his heart.
So I hope you enjoy this.
And like I said, this is tohonor Paul Kirk and his life.
(21:57):
Back to Paul Kirk.
When you're cooking at home,Paul, what do you.
If it's just you and yourwife, what do you usually cook?
Ends on our mood.
Yeah, I'm gonna have do lambshanks for dinner tonight with corn
on the cob, and I don't knowwhat vegetable I'll use.
(22:20):
Make salad.
Well, there you go.
I mean, sometimes we gettoasted cheese sandwiches at my house.
Cup of soup.
We do that, too, just becauseyou're tired.
So let's talk about peoplewanting to enter the competitive
world of barbecue.
I mean, you're at the far endof the scale from somebody who's
(22:41):
just starting.
But what could you advise themwhat to look out for?
And maybe some pearls ofwisdom for those folks.
Don't change anything.
You know, dance with the onethat burn you.
(23:02):
No.
Do what you know how to do anddo it the best you can.
That's just like the otherday, I was talking to somebody, and
he Said, oh, you cook, huh?
Yeah.
I said, well, you've been in competition.
Yeah, I've been in a few.
He said, but I would rathertake a professional chef on the new
(23:25):
Backyarders.
He says, why?
I says, the backyard peopletry to make it better every time
they do it.
A chef.
I'm a chef.
I know what I'm doing.
I'm not changing anything.
Well, I'm sorry, Chef, butwhich I am.
And that's what I love aboutbackyard people.
And people that are gettinginto it.
(23:45):
Do the best you can and letship fall in.
May probably the biggest curseof competition barbecue, is if you
win a ribbon, then you're hooked.
Yeah, it's kind of likeplaying golf, you know, if you hit
that one good shot, you're hooked.
You're a lifer at that point.
(24:06):
When you're out there workingin the comp.
Yes.
When you.
When you're working thecompetitions, Paul, and whether it's
a volunteer or you're on a.
You're on a pit crew orwhatever you're doing, what do you
see that?
People kind of make somemistakes once in a while.
Maybe they're new, maybe they're.
Maybe they're seasoned competitors.
(24:26):
But what kind of mistakes doyou see out there?
Well, number one, foil.
But we won't even go there.
I don't know.
Probably they're not patient enough.
They want to hurry everything.
And, you know, I cook atdifferent temperatures.
Primarily, I cook between 230and 250.
(24:50):
Now, like today, I'm doingribs and chicken.
I'm cooking at 275.
And I tell them, you know,when I do classes, people, Chef,
I was taught low and slow.
Well, you just look at anyreputable cookbook.
A 250 degree oven is called aslow oven.
(25:13):
And that's what a pit is, isan oven.
So I think that, you know, anda lot of people are cooking hot and
fast, and I have no problemwith that if you know what you're
doing, because it takes moretime, more of your time to do cook
hot and fast, because you haveto turn it more, more often and watch
(25:35):
it closer than if you cook lowand slow.
That's where we came up withthe saying around here, that we closed
the show with his turn it,don't burn it.
And so that's the fact.
Yeah, it works out that waybetter for people.
Do you have any regrets overthe years of all this competition?
(25:55):
I mean, do you regret that youdidn't become a United States senator
or something?
Well, maybe that's Not a good idea.
But I don't fly that way.
I mean sure, I wish I wouldhave done better at this and that
and.
But once I've done something Itry to limit if I screwed up and
(26:16):
go on to the next thing you know.
I'm not a regret type personas far as my philosophy and the way
I live the.
So I don't know how to answer that.
Well, that's all right.
Well, let me phrase it to youthis way.
What do you think is thehighlights of your career?
(26:39):
What's the one thing or twothings that you're probably most
proud of?
Probably the highlight is thesmile on my mother.
And it is, it just makes memelt when I see it.
And I've got a big picture, aposter with it on there that I, I
(27:03):
did an alligator for Smoke andfire barbecue place here in, in town
that sells fries, you know,cookers and all that.
And they poster and a friendof mine took the picture and it's
on there and it's in my diningroom just sitting there on a chair.
(27:24):
I mean that, that to me, Imean it just, I just love it still.
I don't know how to.
Other than that, I don't knowbecause my problem with all the stuff
that I've won and done, we allput our pants on one leg at a time.
So I just done what I wantedto do or love to do and don't think
(27:48):
I'm any better than anybody.
People can't email me on oneor put it on the Great Basso's Barbecue
Forum, which all it is is abunch of bitching.
And if, if you post a lot,you're, you're an expert and said
(28:11):
Paul, you're always braggingabout how many world champions you've
won.
What are they?
And I said, anybody that knowsme know I don't brag.
I in fact, and then Ray said,you know, Paul, why don't you put
them up?
Well, I had to get a bottle ofmy barbecue sauce to remember what
all they were to put them up.
(28:33):
So that's how impressed I amwith them.
So I just look, I like, Ienjoy what I do.
Yeah.
Did you do anything else priorto competitive barbecue and doing
that?
I mean, did you start out as achef yourself or did you go to chef
school or what?
What's the background there?
(28:53):
I used to teach high school.
Huh.
Business education, product,you know, typing, business management,
business law, that boring stuff.
Then my dad owned a restaurantafter he stopped flying or had out
flying for TWA and Then.
So I've been in the restaurantbusiness pretty much since then,
(29:15):
and it killed him.
But that's neither here nor there.
And I said, I never want to bein it again, but once it gets in
your blood, forget it.
So I've been in that and storyon my first barbecue contest, the
American Royal.
I work at a.
Basically a roadhouse.
Breakfast, lunch and dinner,you know, barbecue steaks, fried
(29:40):
chicken, that type of thing.
All the recipes were mine.
They were not.
When we get off the air today,I'm gonna go up in the mail and see
if that got there.
That check out there from 1981.
But I was in two category.
I was in two categories, ribsand chicken.
And got my.
I mean, everything was a messbecause I came out Friday night in.
(30:06):
I had a flat tire on my truckand no spare.
So I get a ride home and wakesome people up to get their van in
the morning.
And I said, I want to be downthere at 5:30.
Can I get it, you know, at 4?
And oh, no, we need it for a delivery.
So I got it at seven.
And oh, forgot charcoal.
(30:26):
So I had to go across thehighway and the store and get some
charcoal and get down therelike at 8:30.
And I said, I want to be thereat 5:30.
Why have no idea.
Well, you were gonna get the.
Take an apple and slice itreal thin and wrap it in plastic
(30:48):
wrap, put it in a dry cooler,and it'll.
It'll be not, you know, okay.
Had marinated my chicken, dida Hawaiian style chicken, took second
in ribs, first in chicken.
Been downhill ever since, but.
And that's how I got startedin competition.
Well, there you go.
We're going to be back.
(31:09):
Wrap up the show with PaulKirk, the Baron of Kansas City Barbecue,
right after this.
Don't go away, Sam.
(32:01):
J.T.
here.
As many of you probablyalready know, we lost one of the
greats in the barbecue world,Paul Kirk, known as the Baron of
Barbecue, back on May 26.
Paul had had some healthproblems for a while, and he was
84 years old.
I was fortunate enough tointerview Paul on Barbecue Nation
(32:23):
several times over the years.
So in honor of Paul and hiscontributions to barbecue, I thought
we would rerun one of theshows that Paul was on.
Always a character, always alot of fun, and I think truly, Paul
cooked with his heart.
So I hope you enjoy this.
And like I said, this is tohonor Paul Kirk and his life.
(32:58):
Hey, everybody, it's jt.
You know, I talk about PaintedHills all the time, and we always
say beef the way nature intended.
But it's more than that,because each bite of Painted Hills
will make your taste buds explode.
Put a big, bright smile onyour face, and whoever is at your
dinner table will have a big,bright smile on their face.
And you can thank me for that later.
Just go topaintedhillsbeef.com and find out
(33:21):
more.
You won't regret it.
Hey, everybody, J.T.
here.
I want to tell you aboutHammerstahl knives.
Hammerstahl combines Germansteel with beautiful and functioning
designs.
They're part of the HeritageSteel group, which also does their
pots and pans.
So go to heritagesteel us.
Check out the Hammer Stahl knives.
If you're really into cooking,I think you're really gonna like
(33:43):
them.
Foreign.
Hi, everybody.
It's JT here.
As many of you probablyalready know, we lost one of the
greats in the barbecue world,Paul Kirk, known as the Baron of
(34:05):
Barbecue, back on May 26.
Paul had had some healthproblems for a while, and he was
84 years old.
I was fortunate enough tointerview Paul on Barbecue Nation
several times over the years.
So in honor of Paul and hiscontributions to barbecue, I thought
we would rerun one of theshows that Paul was on.
(34:29):
Always a character, always alot of fun.
And I think truly, Paul cookedwith his heart.
So I hope you enjoy this.
And like I said, this is tohonor Paul Kirk and his life.
And welcome back to Marbee Nation.
I'm JT, Dr.
(34:50):
Dave and company.
And everybody up and down theRadio Northwest Network and our affiliates
down in Texas, and to all thepeople that listen across the world,
I thank you for that.
I really do.
Sincerely.
We're talking with Paul Kirk today.
You know, it's always a toss up.
Like he was saying about Myronsays he's the winningest guy in barbecue.
(35:10):
Paul very well could be, butit doesn't matter that much because
they're both experts, and Paulhas done a lot of interesting things,
and he spent some time outhere in the Northwest.
We were talking off the air,and he's spent time out here in Portland
and Eugene.
So that's kind of a good thing.
(35:31):
That's kind of a good thing.
Is there anything in barbecue,Paul, that you wanted to do that
you haven't done yet?
Not that I know of.
I mean, I've cooked in all thebig or been to all the big contests.
I've been to Houston, helpedout there.
I've cooked in Memphis in May,and two of my world championships
(35:52):
over in Ireland were Memphisand Mace type cookbooks or Cooking
contests.
Won the American Wild Open and invitation.
No, not that I know of.
Okay.
Well, I mean, I wish I was.
More competitive than I as Iused to be, but I like my daughter
(36:17):
who's taking over my team inone of the contests.
Been there for.
I'm the last of the originalcook for 37 years.
She says, why don't you stop playing?
Well, that's how I learn anddo new things.
And why don't you get seriouslike you used to be?
So, I don't know.
(36:39):
Well, maybe you get the Tshirt that says, been there, done
that.
You know, we still learn every day.
Every time we turn on the heaton, whether it's a barbecue, a grill,
a stove, a smoker, whatever itis, we still learn something.
But like you said, that is true.
Like you said, I think thepeople that you know when they're
(37:01):
turning out a product, whetherit's for personal consumption or
competition or a restaurant orwhatever, once you got that down,
I don't think you have totweak it very often.
Well, pretty much I tweak it.
You know, when I do mypersonal and competition, I still
try new things, differentthing just to see.
(37:25):
See what happens.
And if I win, great.
If I don't, okay, I'm winningor losing doesn't bother me, you
know, if I, you know.
And as far as losing or notnot scoring, I will never blame an
inanimate job, you know, orthe judges.
(37:47):
That's just like I was the gu.
And we did it at a contest.
And he says, paul, how do youthink we did?
Well, I says, well, of the sixthings we.
We cooked, is there anythingyou didn't like?
He says, no, I thoughteverything was great.
(38:10):
So I said, well, we may nothit the judge's hot button, but we
would not be ashamed to serveanything we cooked to anybody.
And that's what I go by.
Yeah, you know, I get kind of.
When you talk to the peoplethat actually judge the competitions
and then, you know, they're.
The stuff that they.
(38:31):
Most of these guys are servingat the competition is not stuff you
would actually get served in arestaurant or at home.
It's seasoned a little different.
It's.
I agree.
You know, it's a littleheavier, if you might say.
So I don't.
I'm not sure it's not as good.
And I don't think that peoplerealize that.
(38:52):
I just don't think that theyunderstand that.
I came out of the world ofshowing horses, and there was a lot
of difference between what wewould show if we were showing it.
A show like the Royal versuswhat we would do at home, riding
around the pasture.
So same theory, I guess.
Yeah.
So what does your wife thinkof all this real quick?
(39:14):
We're running out of timehere, Paul.
But has she put up with youfor all these years or she ever bunked
you in the head with a fryingpan and said, get with it, cowboy?
Well, she's only put up withme for 48 years.
It'll be 48 in December.
She is the first Kansas statebarbecue champion.
Good for her.
Yeah.
So she likes it.
(39:35):
We'll have to get her on the show.
My kids, they all grew up.
We'll have to get her on theshow one of these days, so.
Yeah.
Well, Paul, we're running outof time.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
We're running out of time here.
But I wanted to thank you,Paul Kirk, for being with us today
(39:57):
here on Barbecue Nation.
I appreciate it.
You can find Paul's books at any.
You can find them online at Amazon.
You can find them at most any bookstore.
I found a couple at thelibrary that I didn't have because
I had some of your books.
And if you can't find them,let me know and I'll get ahold of
(40:18):
Paul and we'll get you a bookor something.
How's that?
So I appreciate you taking thetime, sir.
I Thoroughly enjoyed it, J.T.
No problem.
All right.
You got a great show.
Thank you.
We're going to get out of here.
So remember our saying here,turn it, don't burn it.
You can look up more of mystuff on the cowboycook.com and we
will see you all next weekright here on Barbecue Nation.
(40:42):
Hi, everybody.
It's JT here.
As many of you probablyalready know, we lost one of the
greats in the barbecue world,Paul Kirk, known as the Baron of
Barbecue, back on May 26.
Paul had had some healthproblems for a while, and he was
84 years old.
I was fortunate enough tointerview Paul on Barbecue Nation
(41:06):
several times over the years.
So in honor of Paul and hiscontributions to barbecue, I thought
we would rerun one of theshows that Paul was on.
Always a character, always alot of fun, and I think truly Paul
cooked with his heart.
So I hope you enjoy this.
And like I said, this is tohonor Paul Kirk and his life.
(41:40):
It.
(42:16):
Barbecue Nation is produced byjtsd, LLC Productions in association
with Salem Media Group.
All rights reserved.
It's time for Barbecue Nationwith JT.
So fire up your grill, light the.
Charcoal, and get your smoker cooking.
Now, from the Turnit DoughBurnett studios In Portland, here's
J.T.
Hi, everybody.
It's J.T.
here.
As many of you probablyalready know, we lost one of the
greats in the barbecue world,Paul Kirk, known as the Baron of
(00:35):
Barbecue, back on May 26.
Paul had had some healthproblems for a while, and he was
84 years old.
I was fortunate enough tointerview Paul on Barbecue Nation
several times over the years.
So in honor of Paul and hiscontributions to barbecue, I thought
we would rerun one of theshows that Paul was on.
(00:59):
Always a character, always alot of fun, and I think, truly, Paul
cooked with his heart.
So I hope you enjoy this.
And like I said, this is tohonor Paul Kirk and his life.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to the nation.
That would be the Barbecue Nation.
I'm JT along with producer Dave.
Hi.
Atop the radio Barbecue Worldin downtown Portland.
(01:21):
And we want to say hello toall of our affiliates out there on
the Radio Northwest Network.
So if I told you there wassomebody that's kind of been known
for a while as the Kansas CityBaron of Barbecue, you might look
at me and say, huh?
But it's true.
We've got Paul Kirk with us today.
(01:42):
Paul is one of the mostwinning people in competitive barbecue.
He's got a very storiedhistory, you might say, and all in
a good way.
He also has written columnsfor the Kansas City Bullsheet, National
Barbecue News.
He's been on CBS this Morning,Anthony Bourdain's Rest His Soul
in the search of a perfect meal.
(02:04):
Paul's been around for acouple of weeks, and he's won over
500 awards, seven worldchampionships at least from what
I can see here.
And so we welcome him.
Welcome to Barbecue Nation, Paul.
Thank you.
Good to be here.
So I would hazard a guess thatyou're already cooking something
(02:26):
this morning.
Well, I just put on 16 slabsof ribs and 10 chickens.
Is that for consumption or for competition?
That is for consumption.
That Sunday, we're going tocelebrate what would have been my
mother's hundredth birthday.
She only made it to 99 in 9months, God rest her soul.
(02:52):
So.
But we're all getting together.
I've got five sisters and abrother, and the whole family's coming
in, so I'm cooking for that.
Let me guess.
Because I have this situationin my life, people invite you to
parties and situations, othergatherings like that, but they always
want you to cook something.
(03:13):
Sometimes a lot of people I'veeven run into, well, I'm never inviting
you over.
I says, for dinner?
I said, why not?
Well, you're a chef, you'regoing to critique what I do.
I says, I enjoy food too muchto critique it.
You kidding me?
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
(03:33):
Once in a while you getinvited someplace and they say, well,
just, you know, sit down andhave a Pepsi or a beer or whatever
you want.
And you?
I kind of feel lost sometimes.
When that happens, it's likenobody loves me anymore.
Yes.
So let's talk a little bit about.
How did you first get startedin turning and burning there on the
(03:56):
grills?
Was it something you startedas a kid or something you picked
up later in life?
No, as a kid.
My dad, he comes from a large family.
We have a large family.
My mom comes from a large family.
And, you know, every summer,whether it's grandma and grandpa's
birthday or somebody'sbirthday or the holidays, we would
(04:18):
always grill out, you know, inour backyard.
Sure.
And back then, when I started,which was I was nine years old, my
dad would buy two and down ribs.
And buy what?
Spare ribs.
Yeah.
Okay.
(04:38):
And now the smallest you canget is what, 4.7 and down.
So hogs have grown since then,but he barbecued a lot, and I don't
know that I paid that much attention.
Fortunately, I have a lot ofGod given talent, thanks to my mother
(04:59):
and father.
They were both good cooks, aswere my grandmothers.
And I've just loved to cook.
And, you know, people say, oh,you've done this, you've done.
I just doing what I love to do.
I mean, I enjoy cooking, youknow, and people ask me, well, how
can you come up with so many recipes?
I said, I make them up.
(05:21):
That's what's the fun of it.
I've even sent recipes into contests.
Never made them and placed orwon the contest.
They're wise to that nowbecause if you get in a lot of these
contests, you have to send apicture of it in also.
Oh, yeah.
So, yeah.
(05:41):
But no, I just enjoy what I do.
I enjoy teaching it.
You know, people, you know,people have asked me for recipes
and I've had people say, well,you won't.
You'll leave something out.
I said, I build a reputationof good food, good quality food.
I would never sabotage food orleaving an ingredient out of a recipe.
(06:04):
I want you to be better than I am.
And then back in the earlydays, somebody figured that 85% of
the ribbons won at theAmerican Royal were my students,
and people asked me, doesn'tthat bother you that your students
beat you?
I said, no.
That's what it's all about.
(06:26):
You know, that's kind of areally nice accolade to you, really.
Oh, I agree.
Yeah.
That they come out and theybeat, quote the master.
I don't think anybody couldgive you higher praise than that.
I agree.
Yeah.
So how is the road turned, ifyou will?
(06:46):
And I use that as kind of justa catchphrase here.
But since you started, and youstarted back with, you know, at the
original Kansas City BarbecueSociety and all that stuff that's
happened, because you're rightthere in the middle of the country
and, you know, Carolyn Wellsand her husband and this whole group,
and you guys worked on allthis, and you sat on the board for
years.
How is that road kind ofchanged or changed directions or,
(07:12):
you know, fingered out intoother highways?
Well, I would say not for thebetter, but that's my opinion.
And, you know, everybody hasan opinion.
So we won't go there.
The.
See, I will not cookingaluminum foil.
To me, that's heresy.
(07:32):
They say that.
That I coined the word Texas crutch.
I don't believe I did.
Now, I started off in.
My first contest was theAmerican Royal in 1981, which was
the second one.
I didn't know about the first one.
So I've been to every AmericanRoyal since then.
Sure.
And I don't always cook, or Imay be on a team now.
(07:56):
I volunteer.
And I was a volunteer down for23 years before we got dismissed
by the new director.
But I still cooked it.
I don't know.
To me, barbecue's gonna take a while.
You know, if I know I have tojust like today, I have to set aside
(08:16):
six hours.
Cause I have those spare ribson there.
Four hours for my chicken.
I know I have to be here andwatch it and restock the pit.
And so I put that time away.
Now, if I wrap it in foil, Icould, you know, cut some time off.
(08:40):
What I think is funny is thethree, two, one method to cook ribs.
You cook them for three hourson the pit.
Then you wrap them in foilwith some sauce or a liquid and steam
them for two hours.
Then you pull them out of thefoil and put them back on your pit
(09:00):
for another hour to try to getsome of that flavor you just steamed
away.
They're fall off the bone.
And number one, I don't likefall off the bone.
I want some texture to my food.
Yep.
So.
And I'm Only going to cook myspare ribs.
You know, these are.
Were larger than I wanted, butthat's what I have.
(09:22):
So when you buy them by the case.
Sure.
So.
Well, I'm only gonna cook themfive and a half, six hours anyway.
So other than them being realtender, what advantage did that give
you?
Lost a lot of flavor.
Well, I don't like my barbecuetasting like it went through a car
(09:46):
wash, so.
Amen.
You know, now I do.
If I'm short on time and I'mdoing a gathering of people and stuff,
I will wrap a brisket.
I never.
Well, that's a differentsituation now.
Yeah, but I've never.
I'll never wrap ribs.
Ribs, to me, are kind of likethe sacred ground.
(10:07):
I mean, I know everybody.
Everybody gets all hopped up about.
About brisket and stuff, butif you.
If, you know, to me, ribs arelike the sacred barbecue thing.
Anyway, that's just my thoughts.
Hey, we're going to take abreak, but before we do, excuse me.
I wanted to remind you thatthis portion of Barbecue Nation is
brought to you in part byPainted Hills Natural Beef.
(10:28):
Beef just like your grandpaused to raise.
You can check them out onlineat painted hillsnaturalbeef.com and
I can give you a personalrecommendation for that brand of
beef products, because I'vebeen eating it for years and cooking
it for years, and it's really good.
We're gonna take a break.
We're gonna be back with PaulKirk right after this.
Don't.
(10:52):
I don't want you lonelymansion with a tear in every room
all I lost to love youpromised bring me the halo moon.
But you think.
I should be happy with yourmoney and your name.
(11:13):
Hi, everybody.
It's JT here.
As many of you probablyalready know, we lost one of the
greats in the barbecue world,Paul Kirk, known as the Baron of
Barbecue, back on May 26.
Paul had had some healthproblems for a while, and he was
84 years old.
I was fortunate enough tointerview Paul on Barbecue Nation
(11:37):
several times over the years.
So in honor of Paul and hiscontributions to barbecue, I thought
we would rerun one of theshows that Paul was on.
Always a character, always alot of fun, and I think truly, Paul
cooked with his heart.
So I hope you enjoy this.
And like I said, this is tohonor Paul Kirk and his life.
(12:11):
Hey, everybody, it's Jeff here.
I want to tell you aboutsomething really cool.
Heritage steel cookware.
I just got mine.
I do a lot of cooking, andit's got five ply construction.
Stay cool.
Handles, it's titanium strengthened.
It's got all the great stuff.
Just go to HeritageSteel usand find out more.
You'll love it, I guarantee it.
(12:34):
This is an encore.
Hey, welcome back to Barbecue Nation.
I'm JT and Dr.
Dave's out doing somethingprobably illicit with his Camaro,
but we're never sure about that.
If you'd like to email us,it's BBQ Nation.
The letter is BBQ Nation.
AlphaMedia USA.com youm canalways find the podcasts of our shows
(12:55):
on the SoundCloud and other platforms.
We've got a ton of platformsthat they're on out there now.
And just go to Barbecue Nationwith jt.
Same thing with Facebook andoh, couple of special affiliates
this week.
KWRO and Coospay and KPNW and Eugene.
We'd like to thank them.
Now, before we get back toPaul, real quick, several weeks ago
(13:18):
we had chef Todd Tobin on who griddles.
That's with two Ds.
Okay.
And the nice folks atBlackstone griddle sent us a 17 inch
portable griddle to give awayon the show.
So here's your question, butyou have to email me the answer.
You can't call me.
You have to email me the answer.
Okay.
(13:39):
Last week we had a young manon here.
He was an army veteran.
His name was Jason Lorraine.
I feel no matter what happens.
Sorry about that.
That's all right.
Just hang on a sec.
Last week on the show we had ayoung man named Jason Lorraine, an
Army veteran, and he has abarbecue business down in Salem,
Oregon.
Okay, what was the name of his company?
(14:03):
You email me the name of hiscompany at Barbecue Nation.
That's BBQnationlphamediasa.com and then we'll
pick from the winners, thepeople that got the correct answer.
And here's a hint, if you needhelp, if you can't remember, go to
the SoundCloud and look up theshow with Jason Lorraine.
Okay, now we've got that outof the way.
We're back talking with PaulKirk, one of the true icons in the
(14:26):
world of barbecue.
And I wanted to ask you something.
Cause I've actually done this.
I didn't write a book aboutbarbecue, but I wrote a cookbook.
How long does it normally takeyou to write a cookbook?
You've written what, 12 of them?
Yes.
Well, I've co written or co written.
Yeah.
And my biggest problem is I'vegot five more on my computer.
(14:47):
Oh, don't have a publisher,but that's another Story, I'm gonna
say it takes a good year.
I had a friend who.
He taught at a junior college,Johnson County Community College
here.
And he retired.
He said, I'm.
He's very big in the Chef's association.
I used to be also.
(15:08):
And he said, I'm retiring.
I'm gonna write a cookbook.
I saw him about.
Oh, good.
Six, eight months later.
And I didn't realize how muchwork it is.
You know, people think it'sjust recipes.
Well, there's a lot more to itthan just the recipes.
Oh, yeah.
So.
(15:29):
But I enjoy doing recipes, so I'm.
Fortunately, I've always been.
It's easy for me to do recipesand make stuff up.
And people ask me, what spicedoesn't go with what spice?
I said, well, I really haven'tfound any spice that doesn't go with
another spice.
I see.
You know, there's some thatyou mix them, and I don't know if
(15:51):
I like that.
Right.
But, you know, don't.
Just because a little spiceworks doesn't mean a whole lot more
is going to make it even better.
Normally, it just masks theflavor that you're trying to get.
So, you know, things like thatthat you have to learn.
One of the things I wanted totalk to you about, Paul, was, you
(16:12):
know, one thing.
You've heard this many times.
I've heard it many times, andwe were just talking about spices
there.
So people say, you know, Ilike a little kick in my flavoring.
I get that.
But.
And this kind of sounds alittle cliche, but it really.
If you've cooked long enough,you know exactly what.
And I know, you know, Paul,but the listeners, if you're masking
(16:36):
the meat and all you can tasteis the spice, or if it's.
Especially if it's got thequote unquote kick to it, so all
you're tasting is the heat andnot the meat.
I don't think you've done yourjob right.
I agree.
That's my feelings on that.
The.
Who is it?
Out in Eugene, black man has a.
(17:01):
Had a car dealers or a garageand then opened up his barbecue.
Oh, Campbell's.
Was it Campbell's?
No, no, not Campbell's.
That's Portland.
I can't remember.
His name's Gene, but I can'tthink of his last name.
(17:23):
Anyway, he has the man, the sauce.
First time I tasted it, Imean, it was hot.
And I like hot things.
But there again, I'm like you.
I want to enjoy my food.
I don't want to taste Somefood, and it just burns me out.
And I can't taste anything forhalf hour, 45 minutes, right?
And he used to.
(17:44):
Every time I go in there withBob Lyon, they say, paul, you want
to try the.
The Man?
I said, gene, I've alreadytried it.
And all this now is hot.
It has very little flavor.
And, you know, like I said,I'm like you.
I don't mind a little kick toit, but I want to taste the food
I'm eating.
(18:05):
I think when you've done yourjob right, you chew on whatever you're
chewing on.
Let's just say it's a piece ofbrisket and you're tasting the meat
and all that.
And then the heat comes,technically, kind of after you swallow.
You know what I mean?
You're kind of.
You got that, and then youkind of feel the heat and you go,
man, that's pretty good, you know?
Yeah.
But when you pop it in yourmouth and you feel like you just
(18:26):
took a hot Kingsford briquetteand stuffed it in there, it's.
It's not very good.
It doesn't work very good.
I like that analogy.
Well, feel free to use it.
But, I mean, I've done thatwhere people.
And then, of course, I've gotpeople that.
(18:48):
I don't know if you'd reallycall them friends, but they kind
of sucker punch you once in awhile and say, here, try this.
And you take a bite of it and it's.
And then all of a sudden, justwithin seconds, it's like, boom.
And it's like, you really can't.
You know, I don't know.
I'm getting older, and so Iguess I'm getting more fussy.
Paul.
But it's just one of thosethings that I think if you balance
(19:12):
the heat with the meat, thenyou're doing okay, you know?
I agree.
So we've got about 40 secondsbefore we have to go to break here.
What's just kind of a realshort sentence?
What's your favorite thing toactually barbecue?
Duck.
Duck.
Yeah.
Well, you'd be popular outhere with the Oregon Ducks crowd,
(19:33):
I'll tell you that.
Right.
University of Oregon.
Because I was a beaver guy,and I've never heard anybody barbecuing
beaver, but that's.
I beg your pardon.
I have.
Have you really?
We did.
Beaver sausage.
Good for you.
How was.
Was good?
Was it.
You know, but getting peopleto taste it once you told them what
(19:54):
it was, that was the difficult part.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it actually scoredsecond in a barbecue contest.
Oh, my word.
They didn't know what it was.
It's very red meat.
Yeah, well, I know that way.
We're going to take a break.
We're going to be back withPaul Kirk, the baron of barbecue
from Kansas City.
And actually, truly, Paul'sone of the most winning guys, if
(20:17):
not the most winning guy at barbecue.
So in the competition side.
We'll be back in just a minute.
Hey, everybody, it's JT And Ihave eaten.
If you've ever looked at me,you know that.
But I have eaten seafood allover the world, and I can tell you
(20:39):
there's no place better thanhere in Oregon and our Dungeness
crab.
If you want to learn moreabout Oregon Dungeness crab, just
go to oregondungeness.org findout how to cook it, how to catch
it, where to buy it, and thesustainability of what they're doing
there in the Oregon Crab Commission.
Check it out.
(21:09):
Hi, everybody.
It's JT here.
As many of you probablyalready know, we lost one of the
greats in the barbecue world,Paul Kirk, known as the Baron of
Barbecue, back on May 26.
Paul had had some healthproblems for a while, and he was
84 years old.
I was fortunate enough tointerview Paul on Barbecue Nation
(21:32):
several times over the years.
So in honor of Paul and hiscontributions to barbecue, I thought
we would rerun one of theshows that Paul was on.
Always a character, always alot of fun, and I think, truly, Paul
cooked with his heart.
So I hope you enjoy this.
And like I said, this is tohonor Paul Kirk and his life.
(21:57):
Back to Paul Kirk.
When you're cooking at home,Paul, what do you.
If it's just you and yourwife, what do you usually cook?
Ends on our mood.
Yeah, I'm gonna have do lambshanks for dinner tonight with corn
on the cob, and I don't knowwhat vegetable I'll use.
(22:20):
Make salad.
Well, there you go.
I mean, sometimes we gettoasted cheese sandwiches at my house.
Cup of soup.
We do that, too, just becauseyou're tired.
So let's talk about peoplewanting to enter the competitive
world of barbecue.
I mean, you're at the far endof the scale from somebody who's
(22:41):
just starting.
But what could you advise themwhat to look out for?
And maybe some pearls ofwisdom for those folks.
Don't change anything.
You know, dance with the onethat burn you.
(23:02):
No.
Do what you know how to do anddo it the best you can.
That's just like the otherday, I was talking to somebody, and
he Said, oh, you cook, huh?
Yeah.
I said, well, you've been in competition.
Yeah, I've been in a few.
He said, but I would rathertake a professional chef on the new
(23:25):
Backyarders.
He says, why?
I says, the backyard peopletry to make it better every time
they do it.
A chef.
I'm a chef.
I know what I'm doing.
I'm not changing anything.
Well, I'm sorry, Chef, butwhich I am.
And that's what I love aboutbackyard people.
And people that are gettinginto it.
(23:45):
Do the best you can and letship fall in.
May probably the biggest curseof competition barbecue, is if you
win a ribbon, then you're hooked.
Yeah, it's kind of likeplaying golf, you know, if you hit
that one good shot, you're hooked.
You're a lifer at that point.
(24:06):
When you're out there workingin the comp.
Yes.
When you.
When you're working thecompetitions, Paul, and whether it's
a volunteer or you're on a.
You're on a pit crew orwhatever you're doing, what do you
see that?
People kind of make somemistakes once in a while.
Maybe they're new, maybe they're.
Maybe they're seasoned competitors.
(24:26):
But what kind of mistakes doyou see out there?
Well, number one, foil.
But we won't even go there.
I don't know.
Probably they're not patient enough.
They want to hurry everything.
And, you know, I cook atdifferent temperatures.
Primarily, I cook between 230and 250.
(24:50):
Now, like today, I'm doingribs and chicken.
I'm cooking at 275.
And I tell them, you know,when I do classes, people, Chef,
I was taught low and slow.
Well, you just look at anyreputable cookbook.
A 250 degree oven is called aslow oven.
(25:13):
And that's what a pit is, isan oven.
So I think that, you know, anda lot of people are cooking hot and
fast, and I have no problemwith that if you know what you're
doing, because it takes moretime, more of your time to do cook
hot and fast, because you haveto turn it more, more often and watch
(25:35):
it closer than if you cook lowand slow.
That's where we came up withthe saying around here, that we closed
the show with his turn it,don't burn it.
And so that's the fact.
Yeah, it works out that waybetter for people.
Do you have any regrets overthe years of all this competition?
(25:55):
I mean, do you regret that youdidn't become a United States senator
or something?
Well, maybe that's Not a good idea.
But I don't fly that way.
I mean sure, I wish I wouldhave done better at this and that
and.
But once I've done something Itry to limit if I screwed up and
(26:16):
go on to the next thing you know.
I'm not a regret type personas far as my philosophy and the way
I live the.
So I don't know how to answer that.
Well, that's all right.
Well, let me phrase it to youthis way.
What do you think is thehighlights of your career?
(26:39):
What's the one thing or twothings that you're probably most
proud of?
Probably the highlight is thesmile on my mother.
And it is, it just makes memelt when I see it.
And I've got a big picture, aposter with it on there that I, I
(27:03):
did an alligator for Smoke andfire barbecue place here in, in town
that sells fries, you know,cookers and all that.
And they poster and a friendof mine took the picture and it's
on there and it's in my diningroom just sitting there on a chair.
(27:24):
I mean that, that to me, Imean it just, I just love it still.
I don't know how to.
Other than that, I don't knowbecause my problem with all the stuff
that I've won and done, we allput our pants on one leg at a time.
So I just done what I wantedto do or love to do and don't think
(27:48):
I'm any better than anybody.
People can't email me on oneor put it on the Great Basso's Barbecue
Forum, which all it is is abunch of bitching.
And if, if you post a lot,you're, you're an expert and said
(28:11):
Paul, you're always braggingabout how many world champions you've
won.
What are they?
And I said, anybody that knowsme know I don't brag.
I in fact, and then Ray said,you know, Paul, why don't you put
them up?
Well, I had to get a bottle ofmy barbecue sauce to remember what
all they were to put them up.
(28:33):
So that's how impressed I amwith them.
So I just look, I like, Ienjoy what I do.
Yeah.
Did you do anything else priorto competitive barbecue and doing
that?
I mean, did you start out as achef yourself or did you go to chef
school or what?
What's the background there?
(28:53):
I used to teach high school.
Huh.
Business education, product,you know, typing, business management,
business law, that boring stuff.
Then my dad owned a restaurantafter he stopped flying or had out
flying for TWA and Then.
So I've been in the restaurantbusiness pretty much since then,
(29:15):
and it killed him.
But that's neither here nor there.
And I said, I never want to bein it again, but once it gets in
your blood, forget it.
So I've been in that and storyon my first barbecue contest, the
American Royal.
I work at a.
Basically a roadhouse.
Breakfast, lunch and dinner,you know, barbecue steaks, fried
(29:40):
chicken, that type of thing.
All the recipes were mine.
They were not.
When we get off the air today,I'm gonna go up in the mail and see
if that got there.
That check out there from 1981.
But I was in two category.
I was in two categories, ribsand chicken.
And got my.
I mean, everything was a messbecause I came out Friday night in.
(30:06):
I had a flat tire on my truckand no spare.
So I get a ride home and wakesome people up to get their van in
the morning.
And I said, I want to be downthere at 5:30.
Can I get it, you know, at 4?
And oh, no, we need it for a delivery.
So I got it at seven.
And oh, forgot charcoal.
(30:26):
So I had to go across thehighway and the store and get some
charcoal and get down therelike at 8:30.
And I said, I want to be thereat 5:30.
Why have no idea.
Well, you were gonna get the.
Take an apple and slice itreal thin and wrap it in plastic
(30:48):
wrap, put it in a dry cooler,and it'll.
It'll be not, you know, okay.
Had marinated my chicken, dida Hawaiian style chicken, took second
in ribs, first in chicken.
Been downhill ever since, but.
And that's how I got startedin competition.
Well, there you go.
We're going to be back.
(31:09):
Wrap up the show with PaulKirk, the Baron of Kansas City Barbecue,
right after this.
Don't go away, Sam.
(32:01):
J.T.
here.
As many of you probablyalready know, we lost one of the
greats in the barbecue world,Paul Kirk, known as the Baron of
Barbecue, back on May 26.
Paul had had some healthproblems for a while, and he was
84 years old.
I was fortunate enough tointerview Paul on Barbecue Nation
(32:23):
several times over the years.
So in honor of Paul and hiscontributions to barbecue, I thought
we would rerun one of theshows that Paul was on.
Always a character, always alot of fun, and I think truly, Paul
cooked with his heart.
So I hope you enjoy this.
And like I said, this is tohonor Paul Kirk and his life.
(32:58):
Hey, everybody, it's jt.
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But it's more than that,because each bite of Painted Hills
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Put a big, bright smile onyour face, and whoever is at your
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Just go topaintedhillsbeef.com and find out
(33:21):
more.
You won't regret it.
Hey, everybody, J.T.
here.
I want to tell you aboutHammerstahl knives.
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(33:43):
them.
Foreign.
Hi, everybody.
It's JT here.
As many of you probablyalready know, we lost one of the
greats in the barbecue world,Paul Kirk, known as the Baron of
(34:05):
Barbecue, back on May 26.
Paul had had some healthproblems for a while, and he was
84 years old.
I was fortunate enough tointerview Paul on Barbecue Nation
several times over the years.
So in honor of Paul and hiscontributions to barbecue, I thought
we would rerun one of theshows that Paul was on.
(34:29):
Always a character, always alot of fun.
And I think truly, Paul cookedwith his heart.
So I hope you enjoy this.
And like I said, this is tohonor Paul Kirk and his life.
And welcome back to Marbee Nation.
I'm JT, Dr.
(34:50):
Dave and company.
And everybody up and down theRadio Northwest Network and our affiliates
down in Texas, and to all thepeople that listen across the world,
I thank you for that.
I really do.
Sincerely.
We're talking with Paul Kirk today.
You know, it's always a toss up.
Like he was saying about Myronsays he's the winningest guy in barbecue.
(35:10):
Paul very well could be, butit doesn't matter that much because
they're both experts, and Paulhas done a lot of interesting things,
and he spent some time outhere in the Northwest.
We were talking off the air,and he's spent time out here in Portland
and Eugene.
So that's kind of a good thing.
(35:31):
That's kind of a good thing.
Is there anything in barbecue,Paul, that you wanted to do that
you haven't done yet?
Not that I know of.
I mean, I've cooked in all thebig or been to all the big contests.
I've been to Houston, helpedout there.
I've cooked in Memphis in May,and two of my world championships
(35:52):
over in Ireland were Memphisand Mace type cookbooks or Cooking
contests.
Won the American Wild Open and invitation.
No, not that I know of.
Okay.
Well, I mean, I wish I was.
More competitive than I as Iused to be, but I like my daughter
(36:17):
who's taking over my team inone of the contests.
Been there for.
I'm the last of the originalcook for 37 years.
She says, why don't you stop playing?
Well, that's how I learn anddo new things.
And why don't you get seriouslike you used to be?
So, I don't know.
(36:39):
Well, maybe you get the Tshirt that says, been there, done
that.
You know, we still learn every day.
Every time we turn on the heaton, whether it's a barbecue, a grill,
a stove, a smoker, whatever itis, we still learn something.
But like you said, that is true.
Like you said, I think thepeople that you know when they're
(37:01):
turning out a product, whetherit's for personal consumption or
competition or a restaurant orwhatever, once you got that down,
I don't think you have totweak it very often.
Well, pretty much I tweak it.
You know, when I do mypersonal and competition, I still
try new things, differentthing just to see.
(37:25):
See what happens.
And if I win, great.
If I don't, okay, I'm winningor losing doesn't bother me, you
know, if I, you know.
And as far as losing or notnot scoring, I will never blame an
inanimate job, you know, orthe judges.
(37:47):
That's just like I was the gu.
And we did it at a contest.
And he says, paul, how do youthink we did?
Well, I says, well, of the sixthings we.
We cooked, is there anythingyou didn't like?
He says, no, I thoughteverything was great.
(38:10):
So I said, well, we may nothit the judge's hot button, but we
would not be ashamed to serveanything we cooked to anybody.
And that's what I go by.
Yeah, you know, I get kind of.
When you talk to the peoplethat actually judge the competitions
and then, you know, they're.
The stuff that they.
(38:31):
Most of these guys are servingat the competition is not stuff you
would actually get served in arestaurant or at home.
It's seasoned a little different.
It's.
I agree.
You know, it's a littleheavier, if you might say.
So I don't.
I'm not sure it's not as good.
And I don't think that peoplerealize that.
(38:52):
I just don't think that theyunderstand that.
I came out of the world ofshowing horses, and there was a lot
of difference between what wewould show if we were showing it.
A show like the Royal versuswhat we would do at home, riding
around the pasture.
So same theory, I guess.
Yeah.
So what does your wife thinkof all this real quick?
(39:14):
We're running out of timehere, Paul.
But has she put up with youfor all these years or she ever bunked
you in the head with a fryingpan and said, get with it, cowboy?
Well, she's only put up withme for 48 years.
It'll be 48 in December.
She is the first Kansas statebarbecue champion.
Good for her.
Yeah.
So she likes it.
(39:35):
We'll have to get her on the show.
My kids, they all grew up.
We'll have to get her on theshow one of these days, so.
Yeah.
Well, Paul, we're running outof time.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
We're running out of time here.
But I wanted to thank you,Paul Kirk, for being with us today
(39:57):
here on Barbecue Nation.
I appreciate it.
You can find Paul's books at any.
You can find them online at Amazon.
You can find them at most any bookstore.
I found a couple at thelibrary that I didn't have because
I had some of your books.
And if you can't find them,let me know and I'll get ahold of
(40:18):
Paul and we'll get you a bookor something.
How's that?
So I appreciate you taking thetime, sir.
I Thoroughly enjoyed it, J.T.
No problem.
All right.
You got a great show.
Thank you.
We're going to get out of here.
So remember our saying here,turn it, don't burn it.
You can look up more of mystuff on the cowboycook.com and we
will see you all next weekright here on Barbecue Nation.
(40:42):
Hi, everybody.
It's JT here.
As many of you probablyalready know, we lost one of the
greats in the barbecue world,Paul Kirk, known as the Baron of
Barbecue, back on May 26.
Paul had had some healthproblems for a while, and he was
84 years old.
I was fortunate enough tointerview Paul on Barbecue Nation
(41:06):
several times over the years.
So in honor of Paul and hiscontributions to barbecue, I thought
we would rerun one of theshows that Paul was on.
Always a character, always alot of fun, and I think truly Paul
cooked with his heart.
So I hope you enjoy this.
And like I said, this is tohonor Paul Kirk and his life.
(41:40):
It.
(42:16):
Barbecue Nation is produced byjtsd, LLC Productions in association
with Salem Media Group.
All rights reserved.
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