August 12, 2025 • 11 mins
In this episode, we engage in a profound exploration of culinary creativity and the artistry of barbecue, featuring an enlightening conversation with the esteemed chef Michelle Wallace. We delve into her inspirations, including a notable desire to impress the legendary Leah Chase with her unique interpretations of fried chicken and gumbo, infused with Asian culinary elements. Furthermore, we examine the intricate balance of success and failure in the creative process, as Chef Wallace candidly shares her personal ratio of triumphs to setbacks in the kitchen. The discourse also traverses the whimsical notion of barbecue governance, wherein Chef Wallace humorously articulates her decree against the unsightly practice of compressing brisket for photography. As we conclude, we reflect on the essence of culinary aspiration and the shared experiences that shape our gastronomic journeys.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painted Hills Natural Beef
- Dakin Bop
- Popeyes
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Welcome to Barbecue Nationwith JT and Leanne.
After Hours, the conversationthat continued after the show was
done.
Hey, everybody, it's jt andthis is a special version of Barbecue
Nation.
It is brought to you in partby Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Beef you can be proud to serveyour family and friends.
That's Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Welcome to After Hours here onthe Nation.
(00:32):
This is the fun part of the show.
Well, all our shows are fun,but this is the fun part of the show.
Okay.
And the end.
And our guests really don'tknow what the questions are ahead
of time.
No.
And that's true.
And they're totally.
I don't want to say.
Irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant.
(00:54):
But they may be irreverent.
How's that?
Okay.
Yeah.
Are you ready?
Yes, sir.
Okay, easy one first.
If you could cook for and dinewith a historical figure, who would
it be and what would be on the menu?
(01:14):
A historical figure?
Anybody I would want to cook for?
Probably chef Leah Chase outof New Orleans.
Know if you guys familiar with her.
But also on the menu, I wouldwant to impress her with my fried
chicken.
I know that she's known forher fried chicken and, like, gumbo.
(01:37):
I would try to do, like, myversion of that because I like to
add smoky elements to mygumbo, like smoked crab legs and
stuff.
So I would try to impress herwith those two things, and then there
would be some food with, like,some Asian cuisine.
Fun fact.
I studied in China for, like,a month during my culinary studies,
and so I love bringing inAsian flavors and mixing it with
(02:01):
barbecue as well.
And so I would try to impressher with some things like that that
I learned in China.
That's good.
There you go.
What would you say yoursuccess to failure ratio is when
you're creating a new dish?
Like, 75.
(02:21):
25.
I fail 75% of the time, and25% of the time, I'm stel.
Okay.
You make up for it.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, like I said earlier,I'm not afraid to try anything.
And I'm like, yeah, thatdidn't work.
Yeah, that didn't work.
(02:42):
And so, Yeah, a solid 25, 30%of the time.
I'm your girl.
I'm shining.
That sounds decent.
Like that.
If Leanne declared you supremeruler of barbecue for one week, just
one week, what would you, asthe supreme ruler, decree?
(03:03):
Okay, that's a great question.
As the ruler, I would decree.
What would I decree?
Oh, that's a tough one.
That's a tough one.
Wait till you get the next One.
What's one of my pet peeves?
Yeah, that's a good way tolook at it.
(03:26):
What's one of my pet peeves?
I would decrease.
Oh, oh, here you go.
I would decree that if you aretaking a picture or video of your
brisket that you can't smashit down.
Hallelujah.
That's not impressive to me.
So that's what I would decree.
(03:48):
You cannot press down your brisket.
Wasn't it.
Wasn't it?
John Marcus, when he was onthe show, said something like that.
And he said they.
They cut into it and then they squeeze.
And I won't.
What he said the adjective he used.
Squeeze all juice out of it.
Couldn't agree more.
(04:08):
Okay.
What does a fantasy day forMichelle Wallace look like?
Oh, that's a. I dream of thisday often.
But, yes, I would wake up inprobably another country on a vacation.
I would sleep in.
I would find somewhere that isserving some good, like, hot bowl
(04:31):
of noodles or some tacos.
I would drink that with somebeer or some champagne.
And then how else would I endthe day?
I would have a pedicure or something.
Yeah.
Mani, pedi, massage.
And then I would just findmore food to eat.
There you go.
There you go.
Sounds like a good time.
(04:53):
If you could erase one mistakefrom your past, Michelle, what would
it be?
Oh, that's a lovely question.
Some people don't think so.
No.
I mean, obviously our mistakesget us to where we are, if you are
able to learn from it.
Right.
But it's.
So that is a hard one, becausethen how can I take something away?
(05:16):
But I would focus on the timewhere I was just too shy or having
so much fear that it stifled me.
And I feel like at the verybeginning of my career, that was
me.
Like, I was, you know, a little.
Like, I was afraid to speak up.
I was a little afraid to kindof do the things right.
(05:39):
That puts you in position.
I would take that away.
So I don't know if there wasone mistake that I made specifically,
but I know that there weretimes where I've been looked over
because I've been so kind ofshy and reserved and afraid to speak
up.
Or were you two.
(06:00):
No, I was in my 20s.
I was just, you know, goingprobably too far, sharing too much.
You know, as a twin.
Like, my twin was she growingup, she was the track star, and she
was a thing, and I was morereserved and just.
And so that bled over into my20s, and there was a moment, there
was a time where I was justkind of, like, shy and reserved.
(06:22):
Okay.
All right.
We'll take your word for it.
If we put your skills tomusic, what would the music be?
Something of Stevie Wonders.
I listen to him all the timein the kitchen.
Is that your guitar?
No, that's my boyfriend's guitar.
I don't know how to play.
Okay.
But I did.
I played the violin for, like,three years in high.
(06:43):
In middle school.
Okay.
All right.
Just.
Just checking.
If you were an animal, whatanimal would you be?
If I were an animal, I would be.
I don't know.
That's.
If I were an animal, I wouldbe probably.
(07:08):
I'd probably be, like, a bear.
Strong.
I look cuddly, but, like,strong and, you know, can attack
too.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
All right.
What's your least favoritefood to cook?
Turkey.
That was quick.
That was very quick.
(07:30):
I.
You know, and I've cooked alot of turkey in my life, but I never
am.
Just.
I just think it's such aboring protein.
And I don't care what you.
If you fry it, smoke it, bakeit, like, I just think it's a boring
protein, that's all.
I think the best thing you cando to have fun with the turkey is
drop it out of a helicopterwhen it's frozen.
(07:55):
There you go.
Okay.
Just a couple more here.
Would you say you're.
I know the answer to this, andI know Leanne does too.
Would you say you're more of asweatshirt or a formal wear girl?
Oh, sweatshirt.
Give me a hoodie.
Yeah.
(08:16):
What's one thing you missabout your 20s?
Oh, the amount of bills that Ididn't have in my 20s was great.
There you go.
When you retire, what do youwant to do?
I mean, that's like 200 yearsfrom now.
(08:37):
But.
When I retire, I probably willstill be cooking.
I don't know.
What would I want to do?
It's hard, man.
I can't see myself not workingunless, like, I have a crazy amount
(08:58):
of money in the bank.
Right.
But I still.
I don't know.
I would probably still dosomething where I'm interacting with
people in some way, so maybeI'd be, like a tour guide of restaurants
or something, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, two more.
What's your favorite movie?
(09:19):
My favorite.
Oh, my favorite movie is probably.
Oh, it's probably like Devil'swhere it wears Prada kind of.
I watch it all the time.
And then this movie called Life.
That is just so funny.
It's hilarious.
I love that one, too.
Okay, last question.
(09:40):
What would your last Meal beif you were on death row.
Probably fried chicken,champagne and French fries or something.
Yeah, you can eat as much asyou want.
You're not going to put on anyweight at that point.
(10:00):
Who cares?
I have a crazy addiction tofried chicken.
It could be Korean friedchicken, Southern fried chicken.
If it's fried chicken, who do you.
Think makes the best fried chicken?
What's the best fried chickenchicken you've ever had besides your
own?
Who makes the best fried chicken?
I'm going to start a war here.
(10:24):
There's this Korean friedchicken here in Houston that I love.
It's called Dakin Bop.
It's just so crispy andflavorful to the bone.
But I like simple Popeyes, tobe honest with you.
I like Popeyes, too.
And I did a food stylingcommercial for them last year.
Yeah.
And they actually, you.
(10:45):
They make all.
They batter it there in the store.
It's amazing what they gothrough to make their chicken.
It's the real deal.
Yeah.
I can appreciate good Popeyes.
Good hot Popeyes.
I agree.
It's not Colonel Sanders anymore.
No, no, no.
Michelle, thank you for beingwith us.
You've been a delight andcontinued success.
(11:07):
You've worked hard for it, andI can tell your hard worker through
and.
Through, so thank you, Ms.Leanne, listen, you know, I bow down
to the great.
You definitely are an amazingand inspirational and, you know,
you keep us women going, man.
You set the trial, you set thebar very, very high, and I appreciate
(11:30):
that.
Oh, well, thank you much.
Yes, she does.
She's not very tall, but shecan get up there, I'll tell you that.
Not in her stature, but she'stall in her capability.
Yes, she is.
Thank you.
All right, we're going to getout of here.
We want to thank MichelleWallace for being with us and, of
course, Leanne for being thisand putting up with me all these
years so far.
(11:50):
And we will do it again nextweek right here on the Nation.
Remember our motto, turn it,don't burn it.
Take care, everybody.
Welcome to Barbecue Nationwith JT and Leanne.
After Hours, the conversationthat continued after the show was
done.
Hey, everybody, it's jt andthis is a special version of Barbecue
Nation.
It is brought to you in partby Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Beef you can be proud to serveyour family and friends.
That's Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Welcome to After Hours here onthe Nation.
(00:32):
This is the fun part of the show.
Well, all our shows are fun,but this is the fun part of the show.
Okay.
And the end.
And our guests really don'tknow what the questions are ahead
of time.
No.
And that's true.
And they're totally.
I don't want to say.
Irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant.
(00:54):
But they may be irreverent.
How's that?
Okay.
Yeah.
Are you ready?
Yes, sir.
Okay, easy one first.
If you could cook for and dinewith a historical figure, who would
it be and what would be on the menu?
(01:14):
A historical figure?
Anybody I would want to cook for?
Probably chef Leah Chase outof New Orleans.
Know if you guys familiar with her.
But also on the menu, I wouldwant to impress her with my fried
chicken.
I know that she's known forher fried chicken and, like, gumbo.
(01:37):
I would try to do, like, myversion of that because I like to
add smoky elements to mygumbo, like smoked crab legs and
stuff.
So I would try to impress herwith those two things, and then there
would be some food with, like,some Asian cuisine.
Fun fact.
I studied in China for, like,a month during my culinary studies,
and so I love bringing inAsian flavors and mixing it with
(02:01):
barbecue as well.
And so I would try to impressher with some things like that that
I learned in China.
That's good.
There you go.
What would you say yoursuccess to failure ratio is when
you're creating a new dish?
Like, 75.
(02:21):
25.
I fail 75% of the time, and25% of the time, I'm stel.
Okay.
You make up for it.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, like I said earlier,I'm not afraid to try anything.
And I'm like, yeah, thatdidn't work.
Yeah, that didn't work.
(02:42):
And so, Yeah, a solid 25, 30%of the time.
I'm your girl.
I'm shining.
That sounds decent.
Like that.
If Leanne declared you supremeruler of barbecue for one week, just
one week, what would you, asthe supreme ruler, decree?
(03:03):
Okay, that's a great question.
As the ruler, I would decree.
What would I decree?
Oh, that's a tough one.
That's a tough one.
Wait till you get the next One.
What's one of my pet peeves?
Yeah, that's a good way tolook at it.
(03:26):
What's one of my pet peeves?
I would decrease.
Oh, oh, here you go.
I would decree that if you aretaking a picture or video of your
brisket that you can't smashit down.
Hallelujah.
That's not impressive to me.
So that's what I would decree.
(03:48):
You cannot press down your brisket.
Wasn't it.
Wasn't it?
John Marcus, when he was onthe show, said something like that.
And he said they.
They cut into it and then they squeeze.
And I won't.
What he said the adjective he used.
Squeeze all juice out of it.
Couldn't agree more.
(04:08):
Okay.
What does a fantasy day forMichelle Wallace look like?
Oh, that's a. I dream of thisday often.
But, yes, I would wake up inprobably another country on a vacation.
I would sleep in.
I would find somewhere that isserving some good, like, hot bowl
(04:31):
of noodles or some tacos.
I would drink that with somebeer or some champagne.
And then how else would I endthe day?
I would have a pedicure or something.
Yeah.
Mani, pedi, massage.
And then I would just findmore food to eat.
There you go.
There you go.
Sounds like a good time.
(04:53):
If you could erase one mistakefrom your past, Michelle, what would
it be?
Oh, that's a lovely question.
Some people don't think so.
No.
I mean, obviously our mistakesget us to where we are, if you are
able to learn from it.
Right.
But it's.
So that is a hard one, becausethen how can I take something away?
(05:16):
But I would focus on the timewhere I was just too shy or having
so much fear that it stifled me.
And I feel like at the verybeginning of my career, that was
me.
Like, I was, you know, a little.
Like, I was afraid to speak up.
I was a little afraid to kindof do the things right.
(05:39):
That puts you in position.
I would take that away.
So I don't know if there wasone mistake that I made specifically,
but I know that there weretimes where I've been looked over
because I've been so kind ofshy and reserved and afraid to speak
up.
Or were you two.
(06:00):
No, I was in my 20s.
I was just, you know, goingprobably too far, sharing too much.
You know, as a twin.
Like, my twin was she growingup, she was the track star, and she
was a thing, and I was morereserved and just.
And so that bled over into my20s, and there was a moment, there
was a time where I was justkind of, like, shy and reserved.
(06:22):
Okay.
All right.
We'll take your word for it.
If we put your skills tomusic, what would the music be?
Something of Stevie Wonders.
I listen to him all the timein the kitchen.
Is that your guitar?
No, that's my boyfriend's guitar.
I don't know how to play.
Okay.
But I did.
I played the violin for, like,three years in high.
(06:43):
In middle school.
Okay.
All right.
Just.
Just checking.
If you were an animal, whatanimal would you be?
If I were an animal, I would be.
I don't know.
That's.
If I were an animal, I wouldbe probably.
(07:08):
I'd probably be, like, a bear.
Strong.
I look cuddly, but, like,strong and, you know, can attack
too.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
All right.
What's your least favoritefood to cook?
Turkey.
That was quick.
That was very quick.
(07:30):
I.
You know, and I've cooked alot of turkey in my life, but I never
am.
Just.
I just think it's such aboring protein.
And I don't care what you.
If you fry it, smoke it, bakeit, like, I just think it's a boring
protein, that's all.
I think the best thing you cando to have fun with the turkey is
drop it out of a helicopterwhen it's frozen.
(07:55):
There you go.
Okay.
Just a couple more here.
Would you say you're.
I know the answer to this, andI know Leanne does too.
Would you say you're more of asweatshirt or a formal wear girl?
Oh, sweatshirt.
Give me a hoodie.
Yeah.
(08:16):
What's one thing you missabout your 20s?
Oh, the amount of bills that Ididn't have in my 20s was great.
There you go.
When you retire, what do youwant to do?
I mean, that's like 200 yearsfrom now.
(08:37):
But.
When I retire, I probably willstill be cooking.
I don't know.
What would I want to do?
It's hard, man.
I can't see myself not workingunless, like, I have a crazy amount
(08:58):
of money in the bank.
Right.
But I still.
I don't know.
I would probably still dosomething where I'm interacting with
people in some way, so maybeI'd be, like a tour guide of restaurants
or something, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, two more.
What's your favorite movie?
(09:19):
My favorite.
Oh, my favorite movie is probably.
Oh, it's probably like Devil'swhere it wears Prada kind of.
I watch it all the time.
And then this movie called Life.
That is just so funny.
It's hilarious.
I love that one, too.
Okay, last question.
(09:40):
What would your last Meal beif you were on death row.
Probably fried chicken,champagne and French fries or something.
Yeah, you can eat as much asyou want.
You're not going to put on anyweight at that point.
(10:00):
Who cares?
I have a crazy addiction tofried chicken.
It could be Korean friedchicken, Southern fried chicken.
If it's fried chicken, who do you.
Think makes the best fried chicken?
What's the best fried chickenchicken you've ever had besides your
own?
Who makes the best fried chicken?
I'm going to start a war here.
(10:24):
There's this Korean friedchicken here in Houston that I love.
It's called Dakin Bop.
It's just so crispy andflavorful to the bone.
But I like simple Popeyes, tobe honest with you.
I like Popeyes, too.
And I did a food stylingcommercial for them last year.
Yeah.
And they actually, you.
(10:45):
They make all.
They batter it there in the store.
It's amazing what they gothrough to make their chicken.
It's the real deal.
Yeah.
I can appreciate good Popeyes.
Good hot Popeyes.
I agree.
It's not Colonel Sanders anymore.
No, no, no.
Michelle, thank you for beingwith us.
You've been a delight andcontinued success.
(11:07):
You've worked hard for it, andI can tell your hard worker through
and.
Through, so thank you, Ms.Leanne, listen, you know, I bow down
to the great.
You definitely are an amazingand inspirational and, you know,
you keep us women going, man.
You set the trial, you set thebar very, very high, and I appreciate
(11:30):
that.
Oh, well, thank you much.
Yes, she does.
She's not very tall, but shecan get up there, I'll tell you that.
Not in her stature, but she'stall in her capability.
Yes, she is.
Thank you.
All right, we're going to getout of here.
We want to thank MichelleWallace for being with us and, of
course, Leanne for being thisand putting up with me all these
years so far.
(11:50):
And we will do it again nextweek right here on the Nation.
Remember our motto, turn it,don't burn it.
Take care, everybody.
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