August 9, 2025 • 42 mins
The episode features a compelling dialogue with Michelle Wallace, a prominent figure in the culinary world, particularly known for her expertise in barbecue. At the forefront of our discussion is the importance of consistency in culinary practices, particularly within the barbecue sector, as emphasized by Michelle's experiences and insights. We delve into her journey, which encompasses her transition from a traditional restaurant background to embracing innovative and unconventional approaches in barbecue. Throughout our conversation, Michelle articulates her passion for teaching and mentoring aspiring chefs, highlighting the significance of community support in her culinary endeavors. This episode promises a profound exploration of culinary philosophy and the personal narratives that shape a chef's journey in the ever-evolving landscape of food.
Links referenced in this episode:
- barbecuenationjt.com
- oregondungeness.org
- paintedhillsbeef.com
- heritagesteel.us
- pigpowder.com
- chefmichellewallace.com
- betweentheslices
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Turn It Go Burnett
- Houston's
- Greg Gatlin
- Barbecue Brawl
- Top Chef
- Heritage Steel
- Westin Kia
- Painted Hills
- Hammerstahl
- Pig Powder
Mentioned in this episode:
null
null
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
It's time for Barbecue Nationwith jt so fire up your grill, light
the charcoal, and get yoursmoker cooking.
Now from the Turn It GoBurnett studios in Portland, here's
jt.
This is an encore.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to the nation.
That's Barbecue Nation.
I'm jt.
You can go ahead and drinkthat, Michelle.
That's all right.
And with my co host and cocommander, Leanne Whippen, of course,
(00:32):
coming to you from ourrespective Turn It Don't Burn it
studios, we've got a veryspecial guest today.
You've seen her on televisiona number of times now, and both she
and le and our alumni of aparticular show.
And we're going to talk about that.
We've got Michelle Wallacewith us today.
And between the sandwichcompany is her daily chore, along
(00:56):
with being a media superstar.
So, Michelle, welcome.
Thank you, guys.
Thank you for having me.
Nice to have you.
Thank you so much.
I'm so glad to be herechatting with you guys today.
Hey, that's what we do.
We are chatters.
So if you looked back on yourlife, say, 10, 12 years ago, would
you ever thought you.
You would be where you aretoday, not talking to us?
(01:18):
But, you know.
Absolutely not.
No.
I have, as I like to say,failed my way to success or to this
point in my life, which Iconsider a success.
But no, 10, 12 years, to behonest with you, I just, I wanted
to.
I told myself that I wanted tobe impactful in some way in this
industry.
(01:38):
And I didn't know what thatlooked like.
I didn't know if that lookedlike, you know, restaurant managing.
You know, I didn't know whatit looked like.
And I really left myself openfor everything and I landed up here.
Well, good.
What prompted you to get intothe food world?
Making money in college?
(01:59):
Actually, I was a brokecollege student and my first job
in a restaurant industry.
I was a greeter at Houston'srestaurant there across the country.
But I was a greeter transitioninto a server and bartender.
And I did all the things frontof the house.
So that was my first taste.
And once I graduated college,I actually worked in the, in the
(02:20):
healthcare industry.
My degree is in healthcare administration.
And, you know, I truly missed it.
I missed that every day wasdifferent in the restaurant industry.
I missed learning about food.
I miss learning about wine.
And that kind of just startedmy interest in food.
Well, good, good.
And you work.
I love Houston's, by the way.
Yeah, I still do.
(02:42):
I've eaten at a few of them.
So, yeah, that's all Good.
You got some good hands onojt, right, With Greg Gatlin.
Tell us about that.
Working with Greg.
Yeah.
At this point in my career, Ihad decided to.
I had just finished culinaryschool, well, maybe a couple years
(03:03):
before I met Greg.
But I Now I'm knee deep inback of the house.
I let go everything front ofthe house.
I'm knee deep in back of thehouse and learning.
And I randomly met Greg.
I was out with my.
I have a twin sister.
We were out at a party, and Iwas like, you know, that's that barbecue
guy.
Like, he's with his wife atthe time.
And I was like, you know, Iknow him from somewhere.
(03:25):
We.
My sister introduced us.
We kind of just did like, hey,I really love your barbecue.
You know, just, you know, wewere just giving him all the positive
praises that night.
And he was just such a niceperson and just so eager, even in
that moment, to teach and learn.
And he invited me to come tohis restaurant.
He showed me what he did, and,you know, we just became friends
(03:46):
over time.
You know, I got a chance tomeet his wife, his parents and everything,
and they were just lovely people.
And then after a few months,he extended an invitation.
He really liked my background,having some formal training in an
actual restaurant setting andI think was really, you know, impressive
to him.
In barbecue, a lot of timesyou get pitmasters in restaurants,
(04:09):
tourists who have never had that.
That training.
Right.
And so he was like, man, Ithink you can add something to this
team.
And so that's how I got started.
And I went in, you know, as afemale, not, you know, of course
I barbecued before.
My.
My father was an avid griller,so I was familiar with it, but I
hadn't learned on that level.
(04:29):
And he was just, you know, Iwas eager to learn and he was willing
to teach.
And so I, you know, they kepttrying to put me on the side dishes,
of which I handle.
I'm like, no, I want to carrysome cases of briskets.
I want this down.
Show me everything.
And, you know, I convinced himand his father to teach me.
And so that's how I got my training.
(04:50):
I was just really, really adamant.
I think that, you know, as,you know, if you're not learning
anything, you're not growing.
And I just really, reallywanted to grow in this.
In this sector of food.
And, you know, they saw that Iwas eager and they taught me everything.
I mean, up at 3, 30, 4 o'clock in the restaurant and putting
in the hours.
Yeah, there you go.
You Know, Leanne ranrestaurants and stuff.
(05:12):
Yeah.
Do you think that's important?
I mean, you've got your ownrestaurant now.
I know that's important for that.
But as far as the barbecueworld, you touched on it a minute
ago that a lot of thepitmasters don't have classical restaurant
training or food training.
A lot of them haven't run arestaurant, which is a lot different
(05:33):
than dragging around a pit andcooking some briskets and butts and
stuff, you know?
How important do you thinkthat is?
I definitely think it is important.
I think somebody on the team,because at some point, you go from
maybe you and one other personwith your pit out in the field selling
plates to actually runningthis business, and at that point
where you decide, we want todo this on a larger scale, it becomes
(05:56):
a different thing.
Right.
And so I think someone on theteam should have some level of restaurant
exposure.
Right.
So that you understand whatservices and ordering from, you know,
P and L and knowing numbers.
I think it's super important.
Important to have prior to alot of people just get the.
On the drive training and.
(06:16):
And that's cool, too.
But, like, I think it's.
I think it's.
I think it's a part of.
Of how you grow, so I thinkit's important.
Yeah.
Leanne, what's your thoughtson that?
I think you have to.
You know, you hear of peoplesaying, oh, you make the best lasagna.
You should open an Italian restaurant.
Well, yeah, it's not as simpleas making lasagna.
(06:38):
No, it is a business.
It's.
Food is a large part of it,but it comes down to profitability
and numbers and building yourcustomer base and keeping your customers
and knowing how to do that.
So there's so much involvedthat you have to.
You have to have access to.
Piggyback on that statement.
(06:59):
I actually think making goodfood is one of the smaller portions
of that entire scope.
Yeah.
I owned a restaurant or adeli, actually, for about two weeks,
and then I sold.
I sold it back because Ididn't have.
I kind of bought it as aninvestment with a friend of mine,
and he was actually in therestaurant business, and he had sold
(07:21):
all this stuff, and he wantedto do it.
And then when he came to meand I was traveling a lot in those
days, and I also had a retailbusiness, and he said, what shift
are you going to work?
And I went, no, I'm alreadydoing, like, 67 hours a week.
So, you know, there's no shiftin there.
So.
But I. I did run a cateringcompany for a long time.
(07:42):
So, anyway, what's the biggestthing you think you've learned about
dealing with people and food?
Because that's, that's alwaysa big.
Like you, like Leanne just said.
And you've said, you know, youcan make a great lasagna, you can
make a great brisket, but whenyou actually put it out there in
front of the public and youhave to deal with those people, you
(08:04):
know, face to face, one onone, whatever it is, that's a whole
different ballgame.
So what do you think you'velearned about that?
I think that I've learned thatpeople just simply want.
Consistently.
Consistency.
Yeah.
And every day they want tocome to you.
Every day that you're open,they want to know that the brisket
on Monday at 11am is the samebrisket that you get Wednesday at
(08:27):
4pm you know what I mean?
And they can trust that.
They can get that every timethey come to you.
If on Monday your briskettastes like one thing and on Thursday
it tastes a little bitdifferent, you know, people can't
trust you.
You know, they can't trust the product.
And so for the big.
The biggest thing is thatpeople, they don't mind spending
(08:48):
their money.
They just want to make surethat they're spending their money
on something good and thatit's consistent.
Yeah, I would.
I would agree.
The Pacific Northwest, where Ilive, is not known for dynamite barbecue,
although we have some.
Some good stores here, if you will.
Yeah, like that.
But we see a lot of them kindof start up and they have a little
(09:10):
splash and then they get alittle quiet and then they go away.
And that's.
And I think the reason is twofold.
One, what you just said,consistency in the product.
And two, a lot of them havenot run a restaurant business or
a catering company, if that.
And, you know, getting theorders in on time for the, for the
(09:33):
food products and dealing withemployees and, you know, HR issues,
if you will.
I mean, all that stuff goesinto it.
Oh, 100%.
You know, I just.
It is tough.
We are in a tough time right now.
Economically, employees is thebiggest thing.
You know, I have a lot ofpeople in the, in the barbecue world
(09:55):
and beyond that is one of themost important things that they talk
about.
They're either looking foremployees, they can't retain them.
And for, For a magnitude ofreasons, but it's, it's, you know,
you can't.
It's hard to run a business by yourself.
You need employees.
Yeah, you do.
You gotta have somebody toflog, you know.
Right.
(10:15):
Throw a lemonade or whatever.
So you said you had a twin sister.
Is she involved in any of yourbusiness or.
You know, I'm trying to gether to quit her job every single
day and she don't do it.
She.
Yeah, we.
So we operate a lot atfarmer's markets, of which I love
to do.
(10:35):
And so she'll help me at thefarmer's markets, but beyond that.
No, no, I don't need her inthe kitchen.
She's, she's, you know, I needher answering the email said, you
know, doing the administrative stuff.
Can she cook?
I mean, you know, at all?
Yeah, I mean, she won't gohungry, but they won't be, they will
(10:59):
not be culinary, you know,creation that you would want to put
on the menu.
So.
No, the blue and yellow Kraftmacaroni and cheese box type thing.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
She took the bake.
Basic skills of what mom andgrandmom and dad taught us all.
We always used to, we alwaysused to say, ask my dad if he could
(11:22):
boil water without burning it.
Oh, gosh.
And I'll tell you what, he wasthe greatest actor I ever met because
he pulled that crap off for years.
But when my mom was out oftown, we would have these marvelous
breakfasts and dinner and hewould cook them.
But when she came home,couldn't do a thing.
We're gonna take a break hereon the Nation and be back with Michelle
(11:42):
Wallace and of course, Leanneand myself after this.
Don't go away.
Ready for a new ride?
Choose from over a thousandvehicles at Westin Kia.
Like a new Kia Sportage, SoulForte, K4 Sorento Telluride or Carnival
Gas, electric or hybrid.
Oregon's all time leader inKia sales.
Everyone wins at Westin.
1994 to 2023, Westin Kia soldmore new Kias than any other Kia
dealer in Oregon.
Reported by kiacor.
(12:11):
Everybody, it's Jeff here.
I want to tell you aboutsomething really cool.
Heritage steel cookware.
I just got mine.
I do a lot of cooking and.
It'S got five ply construction.
Stay cool handles.
It's titanium strengthened.
It's got all the great stuff.
Just go to HeritageSteel usand find out more.
You'll love it.
I guarantee it.
(12:40):
This is an encore.
Welcome back to the nation.
That's Barbecue Nation.
I'm jt along with a hall offamer and my partner in crime, Leanne
Whippin.
Of course, if you want toemail us, it's just go to the website
barbecue nation jt.com and youcan send us a note there.
You can find us on Facebookand Twitter.
(13:00):
We have the show accounts.
We have our personal accounts.
Leanne's got, like, 10 million accounts.
So all you have to do is typein Leanne whipping and the page lights
up so you can find her rightthere like that.
So.
But today we're talking withMichelle Wallace.
You saw her on High on the Hog.
(13:20):
You've seen her on Barbecue Brawl.
What was that like for you?
Everybody that I know that dida show and Leanne, of course, was
on the original Pit Mastersand all that stuff, they've all had
different experiences.
So tell us about yours.
I enjoy television.
(13:42):
I didn't know this until,basically, Barbecue Brawl competition
is competition, right?
It's intense.
It's, you know, you want to go hard.
My experience on BarbecueBrawl was, you know, it's all fine.
Like, I'm easy.
Like, Sunday morning, it takesa lot to kind of, you know, take
me to another space.
But for me, I stay in my bubble.
(14:02):
I want to, you know, execute.
I'm thinking about all thethings that you need to think about.
Right.
How's the fire going?
How's my creek?
Creativity.
And then how's my time?
Am I moving quick enough?
But, you know, barbecue brawas light work in comparison to Top
Chef, which is a crazy kindof, you know, transition.
(14:23):
But I enjoy barbecue bra.
I think it's.
It's.
It's a lot of just high heatcooking to start off.
I don't know.
Leanne, would you agree with that?
But then I did make it to theend, so I didn't get a chance to
do the longer smokes, but,yeah, no, I think it was cool.
Yeah, fun.
A lot of fun.
I think as they progressed inthe brawl, they had more competitors
(14:46):
in the first season, so we hadlonger cooks, and they got shorter
as it progressed.
Oh, got it.
And you had in between shortcooks, but there were long ones almost
for every episode.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
It was a little bit different.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You were in season one.
You.
Yeah, season one.
So, yeah, I heard howdifferent season one is to.
(15:07):
To where the show is today.
Right?
It is different.
So from a productionstandpoint, did they give you chairs
with your name on them?
No.
And I asked you, and they justlooked at me like I was crazy.
Well, you got to ask, youknow, if it's a Hollywood deal, if
(15:28):
you don't ask, you never.
You never.
Never gonna get it.
Did you learn anything?
I mean, you obviously learnabout some aspects of television
production.
You can't help it if you're ona set doing something like brawl
or throw down or whatever, right?
You see things happening, andyou get used to the timing and all
(15:49):
that.
But did it also really sharpenyour cooking timing and skills, would
you say?
I did almost in a differentway than you might expect.
I went in really, like, havingthis chefy kind of approach to barbecue.
(16:09):
And at that time, you know, Ithink I was thinking too far, right.
Barbecue sometimes can just bethis simple thing of just, you know,
fire, smoke, time, some reallygreat seasonings, and then present
it in a simple way.
And so for me, there was a lotof trimming in my thought process
(16:31):
when I'm executing that I hadto do.
And just basically, honestlyjust kind of keep it simple, but
in a complex way.
You know, barbecue isn'tsimple, but I was just trying to
do too much.
And so it taught me to try to,you know, just kind of reserve my
thoughts a little bit or honethem when I have an idea.
How do I bring it in and thenpresent something amazing, really
(16:56):
sharpen the focus.
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
I'm a creative, and I love,like, you know, what if this, And
I can do this and I can dothat, and I can do this.
And it was just too manythings, right?
And so I quickly learned howto kind of just trim my thoughts
down.
You're not a happy person, are you?
Not at all.
(17:16):
Not at all.
Not at all, man.
Listen, we get one life, right?
And I'm not a neurosurgeon.
Like, no one's life is on theline with what I'm doing, right?
And so we all have to eat.
I love the fellowship thatfood provides.
I love hanging out with newpeople because, you know, we can
get.
We can have theseconversations if I'm sitting with
(17:38):
you, Leanne, or you, Jeff, andwe can.
We can come together about atime that we had some amazing brisket
or some ribs or.
I mean, I just really thinkfood brings us together.
And I love.
I literally love what I do,and I love the people in it.
And, you know, how can you notbe happy?
Yeah.
That's why you're successful.
Seriously.
Sorry.
Thank you.
I love.
I just love the enthusiasm andthe smile.
(18:01):
You got a million dollar smilethere, kids.
I just love it.
Do you think in barbecue thatsometimes we especially maybe on
the competitive side that.
And we ask this of a lot ofour guests, but maybe they should
expand more, do pork chops.
(18:23):
I'm just throwing some stuffout there at you.
You know what I mean, kind ofnow we're seeing it with sides and
we're seeing like, with thesteak cook off associations and all
that in the, in the maincompetitions, and they're doing some
of it, but I, I personallywould like to see them do something
more.
Yeah, yeah, I, you know, Isupport that message.
(18:46):
I literally, in a lot ofinterviews that I've been giving
lately, I tell people I thinkI do unconventional barbecue.
Like, I don't at my pop upsand things of that nature.
Yes, I'm a barbecue girl, andyou might consider me a pitmaster,
but I'm these ingredients in adifferent way a lot of the time.
(19:08):
So my training is classic.
Right.
East Texas barbecue.
You can see that.
You can see my Southernheritage and a lot of that.
But then I also like to turnit on its head.
So how can I take this smokedgoat that I might apply those classic
techniques that I got righttraining in and then I flip it into
another dish.
And so I think it would begreat to see that happening in competitions
(19:32):
where you have, like, thisunconventional approach to, you know,
a dish or, you know, to smoke.
You know, I smoke strawberries to.
And make a strawberry jam.
You know, I smoke collard greens.
I smoke, you know, like Isaid, I do.
I smoke goat.
And I know that's not foreign,but we don't see that a lot in competition.
You know, Leanne's cooked with me.
(19:54):
She cooked with me for about aweek last year.
How'd that go?
Great.
We got a lot of complimentsabout our rapport.
How's that?
Oh, that's good.
That's really good.
All right, we're going to takeanother break.
We're going to be back withMichelle Wallace, and we're going
to talk about some morebarbecue things and some more TV
things.
(20:14):
And I know Leanne will sneak apersonal question in there too, now
and then.
So we'll be right back.
Okay.
Hey, everybody, it's JT And Ihave eaten.
If you've ever looked at me,you know that.
(20:36):
But I have eaten seafood allover the world, and I can tell you
there's no place better thanin Oregon and our Dungeness crab.
If you want to learn moreabout Oregon Dungeness crab, just
go to oregondungeness.org.
And find out how to cook it.
How to catch it, where to buyit, and the sustainability of what
they're doing there in theOregon Crab Commission.
(20:56):
Check it out.
This is an encore.
Welcome back to the nation.
Thanks for being with us today.
We appreciate you more thanyou know, we're talking with Michelle
Wallace today when.
(21:17):
When Greg sat a brisket infront of you and said, have at it,
and he handed you a knife, what.
What was your first response?
Like, oh, my God.
No, I. I was faking it until Imade it.
Made it.
I took that knife and I actedlike I knew exactly what I.
(21:38):
And then he was like, stop.
No.
So, yeah, I, you know, it's.
It's one thing is, you know, Iwas the only female in that kitchen
when I got hired.
You know, all the other ladieswere doing the side dishes and desserts
and stuff.
And so I tried to attack it,acting like, you know, I knew it
all.
And, you know, he quickly told me.
(22:00):
Corrected that.
Stopped it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And at that point, you know, Ilet it all down.
Like, tell me what I need to know.
Do you.
That training that you hadwith him and his time, will you be
willing to do that withsomebody else going down the road?
1,000%.
I don't think you can growwithout teaching.
(22:21):
Right.
If I, If I take it all in, Ishould be able to tell someone else,
and I don't know that I can dothat until I do that.
One and two.
You know, there's so much roomfor us.
All right, so how can I.
The buck can never stop with me.
It will never stop with me.
So I'm teaching.
I'm already teaching.
Teaching.
I'm planning to do some morekind of barbecue things on the farm.
(22:45):
And so I'm working closelywith some high school students as
well as some culinary studentshere who have interest in smoking
meats.
And so, yeah, you know, I lookforward to teaching.
Any moment that I can do that,I sign up for it.
You said you like farmersmarkets and pop ups and things like
that.
Do you.
(23:07):
Do you actually present thebarbecue or.
You were talking about yousmoked strawberries to make jam out
of them, which I think is.
Sounds delicious, but.
Yeah, I'd love some.
I'll send you my address.
Okay, yeah, I'll send you something.
Maybe we can trade.
I'll trade you some ofLeanne's pig powder, which she will
send you, and then you cansend me the strawberries.
(23:28):
There you go, 100%.
Send me your address.
I'll get it to you.
Okay.
But you know, what I'm sayingis you go out local here, you've
been on national television,you got a restaurant, you're doing
all this stuff.
How important is it?
I'll just simplify it like this.
How important is it for you tostay Connected to the local scene.
(23:49):
Oh, extremely important.
You know, if your community,where you live or reside, they have
to be the ones to support you first.
Like, you know, I loveeveryone who supports Michelle.
I've gotten a lot of amazingfeedback from being on all the shows,
but home is home.
You got.
And you have to take care of home.
(24:09):
Right.
And I.
These people are essentially family.
They're extensions of what you do.
They support you, and we talkabout supporting local.
And I believe that I'mgrateful for every single person
that comes to my markets andshow up and show love.
And so it is extremelyimportant to, you know, make sure
that the home team is gettingtaken care of.
(24:30):
Right.
What.
What do you do?
There's.
There's.
It happens to all of us.
There's 1 in 253,000, 142people that says, I don't like this.
How do you deal with that?
Me?
I just throw stuff at.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I really.
I try to listen to whatthey're saying and then see if there's
(24:54):
anything in my repertoire, seeif anything of what I'm serving that
can fit into what theyactually like.
And then if they're promisingme, like, when are you gonna come
in again?
And I might try to makesomething up and have it ready for
them, just specifically for them.
And so for me, when someone'sable to tell me that they don't like
something on my menu, thatgives me an opportunity, a small
(25:16):
window to actually connectwith them.
And that's hearing firsthandwhat consumers might want.
There might be 100 people whothink just like that person.
And so I try to say, okay,cool, this doesn't work for you,
but what does?
And then if there's somethingthat I can do to make that person
happy, I'll try to execute it.
Because you never know.
It might be a winner on themenu later.
(25:36):
Yeah.
So if Leanne and I walked intoyour restaurant, what would you service?
Oh, I really have been intothis whole smoking goat thing, but
I do this cabrito collardgreens, but it's smoked goat braised
collard greens with somebutter beans in it.
And so good.
And I make this cornbreadcroutons to go with it.
(25:58):
It's Chef's Kiss.
Sounds delicious.
Yeah.
But, yeah, I would make you that.
And then I also make a smokedoxtail grilled cheese, and it's really
good.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's.
That's all good.
Yeah.
Look, if Leanne comes toHouston, you have to give her A bib,
(26:20):
though, because she gets alittle messy.
She gets real excited.
No, I'm sure she eats justlike a lady.
She looks.
So do you serve a traditionalbarbecue or is.
Or is it all.
Because it sounds like yourmenu is kind of fancy a little bit.
You know, like I said earlier,I do things in a non traditional
(26:42):
way.
So I learned traditional Texasstyle barbecue right in the process.
And from time to time, you'llsee I'll pull out smoking a brisket,
you know, and I'll pull outsmoking some ribs or whatever.
But mostly I usually take.
Take smoked goods and thenflip it into a different dish.
And so that's what you'll see.
Yeah, I like that.
(27:02):
I like that a lot.
What are you working on now?
Because just in the last.
What's this, the 23rd minuteof the interview here or something,
you've told me about a half adozen things that you've created
in that.
But what are you working on now?
So now actually just toslightly actually correct you a little
(27:24):
bit, I actually don't have abrick and mortar.
Most of my events are atfarmers markets and pop ups, and
I actually kind of love itthat way.
I've been in restaurants forover 20 years now, and so I am working
on getting a series of farmdinners done, but the focus point
on barbecuing.
And so I have access to thisbig barrel pit.
(27:45):
I have an in ground pit.
And so I'm gonna bring some ofmy chef friends.
Maybe I can get you guys tocome out too.
But what we do, what the planis to sell tickets for, people can
have this experience at a pit.
People from different backgrounds.
Right.
And everything has to be doneon a pit, whether it's high heat,
low and slow, however we do it.
(28:07):
But just have some fun, eatsome barbecue, and just kind of learn
a few things.
They'll be able to kind of mixand mingle with us, but I'm working
on that.
Hopefully I can get thatlaunched today, this year, sometime.
What else?
I've been traveling a lot.
Being on Top Chef has beenreally life changing.
And I'll be in Portland nextweek, actually for a pop up.
(28:29):
Yeah, yeah.
And I get a chance to showcasea lot of my barbecue skills.
I'm working with ton charcoal.
We're gonna do some grillingof meats out there.
What else am I working on?
I have a few things that Ireally can't talk about right now,
but so people have to juststay tuned in.
Well, you'll have to send me.
You'll have to send me exactlywhen and where you're gonna be, and
(28:51):
I'll try to break away andcome see you when you're up there.
Oh.
Oh, yes.
I would love that.
Yeah.
It's called Someday Bar, andI'm not sure if you're familiar with
Tan Charco, but they do.
They sell the Japanese stylegrills, but they also sell charcoal
as well.
And so we met at SouthernSmoke, which is a big festival raising
money for people in theindustry, and we booked a great relationship
(29:15):
and they invited me out tocome cook and smoke and grill some
meat.
So I'll be out there.
February 5th and 6th is a popup at Someday Bar, but I'll send
it to you for sure.
Okay.
Yeah, I'll see if I can make that.
That would be fun.
That's fun.
Yeah.
We'll get on FaceTime withLeanne and go.
And then don't make me jealousthat I want to be there eating her
(29:35):
food.
Leanne, what city are you in?
I'm in Tampa.
You're in Tampa.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
So a little far from Portland,but my daughter's over in the Portland
area, so I'll have to let her know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I, I just admire you, Leanne.
I think you're phenomenal.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
I. Yeah, it's, It's.
(29:56):
It's tough being a woman inthis industry, isn't it?
Yes, yes.
Sometimes.
Sometimes you can work it toyour advantage.
So there's pluses and minuses,as you know, 100%.
Yeah, well, I. Leanne, youknow, she reached for the Tampa Bay
Buccaneers, so.
Yeah.
And you.
(30:16):
They didn't make it.
They didn't make it.
Well, neither did Hous, so.
Yeah, yeah.
You put up.
Both of them.
Put up.
Valiant efforts.
Indeed, indeed.
But they got smoked in the end.
Haha.
Yeah.
Like that.
So do you ever have desires to.
God, and I really hope you sayno to this.
(30:38):
Do you ever have desires tocome into the, like, the rub business
and sauce business?
It seems like everybody wetalk to and look at her, look at
her, look at that face saying,oh, yeah, I've got my new line.
But, you know, that's a toughgig too.
Yeah, no, it is actually theanswer to that.
I agree with you.
(30:58):
There's so many.
I mean, what new ways are weactually putting rubs together?
Right.
You know, everyone has a lotof the same things.
I told you guys earlier, I amvery much unconventional.
Right.
And so I have different things.
If you kind of look through mypage, like, I, I'VE met.
The only thing that I've everdone that has some level of seasoning
(31:20):
to it is smoked brisket salt.
So there one day I burned acouple of briskets terribly, right?
And I'm like, gosh, I'vewasted this money.
And you know, but they weren'tso far gone, right?
They just were dry.
And so I took the flax and Iwas like, what can I do with this?
I dehydrated them and then Igrounded it, mixed it with salt and
(31:41):
I turned it into a smokedbrisket salt.
And it's like smoky, beefykind of thing.
And so I make that and put iton like popcorn.
That's really all I put it on.
So that's the only thing Iever done.
But like, things like mysmoked strawberry jam, things like,
you know, my.
I make this collard greensauce verde, if you're familiar with
(32:02):
like the Italians, almost likea chimichurri type thing.
Like, those are the kinds ofthings that I get excited about and
I think people get excitedabout because they're a little bit
different.
And so I've been working on afew things like that, but not no
seasonings or anything like that.
I vote.
I vote Michelle, the smartestguest that we've had on in the last
(32:23):
year because she said no to that.
Anyway, we're going to take a break.
We're going to be back in thenation with Leanne and Michelle and
myself right after this.
Don't go away.
Ready for a new ride?
Choose from over a thousandvehicles at Weston Kia.
Like a new Kia Sportage, SolForte, K4, Sorento Telluride or Carnival
Gas, electric or hybrid.
Oregon's all time leader inKia sales.
(32:43):
Everyone wins at Weston.
1994-2023 Weston Kia has soldmore new Kias than any other Kia
dealer in Oregon.
Reported by kcor.
Hey everybody, it's jt.
You know, I talk about paintedhills all the time and we always
say beef the way nature intended.
(33:04):
But it's more than thatbecause each bite of painted hills
will make your taste buds explode.
Put a big bright smile on yourface and whoever's at your dinner
table will have a big brightsmile on their face.
And you can thank me for that later.
Just go topaintedhillsbeef.com and find out
more.
You won't regret it.
Hey, everybody, J.T.
here.
I want to tell you about theHammerstahl knives.
(33:27):
Hammer Stahl combines Germansteel with beautiful and functioning
designs.
They're part of the HeritageSteel group, which also does their
Pots and pans.
So go to heritagesteel us.
Check out the hammerstahl knives.
If you're really into cooking,I think you're really gonna.
(33:52):
This is an encore.
Welcome back to the nation.
I forgot to do something last segment.
Speaking of ripping on peopleand spices, Leanne, tell us about
pig powder.
Oh, pig powder.
So, gosh.
Pig powder.
Yeah.
Spicy pig powder is rightaround the corner, as I've been saying
for a couple weeks now, but itjust takes a while to get it launched.
(34:15):
So I'm excited about thatcoming out.
You can get pigpowder@pigpowder.com or on Amazon.
And it is sweet with a littlebit of spice to it and can be used
on collard greens like she wastalking about.
I'm gonna order.
I am definitely ordering some.
It's nice.
No, I'll send you some.
It really is very versatileand good on french fries, baked beans,
(34:38):
you name it.
And won the award of best rubon the planet.
And thanks to my dad, it did.
And it is.
And I used some on some salmonthe other night.
Salmon would be delicious.
We kind of did.
I was looking at that segmentthat last seg we did on the TV show,
and I had.
I think I had used some pinkpowder on that or one of them.
(34:59):
I can't remember.
Yeah, but.
But it is good on salmon.
Yeah.
And I. I made some salmon theother night, and it was quite good.
And the little.
There was a little happy redtop, you know, jar there with a little
cute pig on it.
So I was just at the LakelandBarbecue Pig Fest this weekend and
cooked a couple hundred poundsof tenderloin and pork butts and
(35:22):
had something over there.
So it was good.
People like it.
Good for you.
Okay, Michelle.
What?
When this.
When this next segment isover, then we do a thing called After
Hours.
And I'm just going to forewarnyou because that's where you can
swear and we have to bleep outLeanne sometime, but.
(35:44):
Not true.
But.
So we're just wrapping up theregular show here.
Is there anything that you.
You haven't done in the.
Just talk about barbecue for a second.
That you want to do with barbecue?
That's a great question.
(36:05):
Is there anything that Ihaven't done that I want to do in
barbecue?
I've only ever smoked a wholepig once, and one of my dreams is
really to smoke a whole pig.
But in Hawaii before, untilthat's able to happen, I would love
to do more kind of wholeanimal smokes, if that makes sense.
(36:25):
Like you know, I would love todo more of that.
Yeah.
But no, like, I really, youknow, when I used to work with Greg,
he'd be like, wallace, bringit in, bring it in.
He used to be like, I have an idea.
He's like, no, but, you know,my parents are really just amazing.
(36:49):
My father is no longer withus, but.
But they really taught usearly on, like, don't be afraid to
take chances.
They may not all work, butdon't be afraid.
And so I really have lived byjust kind of going for the gusto.
I failed a lot of times orthings didn't work quite how I thought.
But, yeah, I usually try to dowhatever I can think of.
(37:09):
And if I can't think of it,that means I need to learn it.
And so I really try to be opento learning.
But, yeah, I would love tosmoke more.
Whole kind of animals, a wholepig, whole land, all that.
Yeah.
I'll tell you a very quick story.
I'm full of stories.
That's not what Leanne saysI'm full of, but I am full of stories.
All right, so we did a littlefamily vacation in November, and
(37:34):
we went to Hawaii.
And in fact, my in laws fromHouston went with us.
And we go to this luau.
My wife and my sister in lawhad this all planned.
And we get this VIP treatmentat the luau and all that.
It was, it was lovely.
It was fun and all this.
But of course, you're, youknow, they got a, they got a pig
(37:54):
in the ground, right.
So everybody gets to go overand watch the pig taken out of the
ground.
This was not much bigger thana wiener pig.
And there was like, there was350 people there.
Wow.
And Jerome and I are lookingat that pig coming out of there,
and they make a big deal aboutit and they play over it and all
(38:15):
that stuff, which is cool, youknow, and they bring it up and they,
they got two guys carrying itbecause they still got the rod running
through it and they got gloves on.
But this pig is like this big.
Yeah.
That wouldn't even feed our table.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a showpiece.
Yeah.
Winnie the Pooh didn't see itbecause he'd been really upset.
(38:36):
You know, like, out of all theTV shows that you've been on, and
I'm assuming you will be on more.
Without giving away anysecrets, which one was favorite to
do?
Probably Top Chef, although itwas the.
The most intense.
But that's why it's my favorite.
(38:58):
Right.
It really, really pushes youto the limit.
And There are no.
There are no reprieve fromthat competition.
So you don't.
You know, we're not.
We're not able to watch television.
We're not able to call.
Like, I couldn't call my.
My boyfriend.
I couldn't speak with my sister.
There were no.
All you have is.
Is 14 other people who are inthis stressful environment for weeks.
(39:21):
You know what I mean?
And it really tests you.
It tests you mentally.
It tests you physically.
And to be able to go as far asI did, I did not win.
Sad about that, but I stillmade it to the top five.
And to go that far, really, really.
I'm definitely proud of myselffor even going out for the show,
(39:43):
but then also making it thatfar and then being impressive to
still be able to put.
To think as quickly as youneed to think and to execute at that
level.
You know, I'm definitely proudof myself for going through that.
Good for you.
Thank you.
I think I have PTSD from it,but, yeah, I'm so proud.
(40:09):
If you had a message to giveto people right now, Michelle, what
would it be?
My message is, you know,always one, first and foremost, just
have fun with it.
Right.
Saving lives.
But we are enjoying each otherright through food.
And don't be afraid to fail.
I swear, it gets you.
It makes you so much better.
(40:30):
It keeps you humble.
It keeps you light on your toes.
But just don't be afraid totry things, and then don't be afraid
to fail.
It's in the getting up andtrying again and doing again is what
makes you great.
And so, yeah, that's my message.
Okay.
All right.
And last question for theregular show.
(40:54):
What's your favorite thing to eat?
We've talked about all thisfood and all this stuff, but you.
Wait.
I haven't asked you.
What's your favorite thing to eat?
My favorite thing to eat are one.
Potatoes.
I love potatoes.
Any way you do it.
French fries, hash browns, whatever.
But if you make me choose, Ilove a good, good grilled hamburger
(41:19):
cheeseburger.
One of my favorite things to eat.
Yep.
And I like it a different kindof ways.
I like it with mushrooms.
I like it with jalapenos.
I like it with chili.
Like, give me a good burger.
I'm a happy gal.
Okay.
And how can people find you onthe web and stuff?
Find out more about you andall that?
Yes, people can find me@chefMichelleWallace.com you can also
(41:39):
find me on Instagram at.
Between the slices.
I have not tapped into theTikTok and all that other stuff.
I have an account, but I'm notvery active.
So, hey, over to Instagram,which is where I do most of my updating,
and it's between the slices.
Okay.
Michelle Wallace, good luckwith everything.
Michelle is going to stickaround for after hours.
(41:59):
Yes.
So we can abuse her for the.
Next 15 minutes like that.
So we got to get out of here.
Thanks, everybody, for listening.
We'll be back next week withanother edition of Barbecue Nation.
Remember our motto here.
Turn it, don't burn it.
Go out and make some good foodand have fun.
Take care, everybody.
Barbecue Nation is produced byJTSD LLC Productions in association
(42:20):
with Salem Media Group.
All rights reserved.
It's time for Barbecue Nationwith jt so fire up your grill, light
the charcoal, and get yoursmoker cooking.
Now from the Turn It GoBurnett studios in Portland, here's
jt.
This is an encore.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to the nation.
That's Barbecue Nation.
I'm jt.
You can go ahead and drinkthat, Michelle.
That's all right.
And with my co host and cocommander, Leanne Whippen, of course,
(00:32):
coming to you from ourrespective Turn It Don't Burn it
studios, we've got a veryspecial guest today.
You've seen her on televisiona number of times now, and both she
and le and our alumni of aparticular show.
And we're going to talk about that.
We've got Michelle Wallacewith us today.
And between the sandwichcompany is her daily chore, along
(00:56):
with being a media superstar.
So, Michelle, welcome.
Thank you, guys.
Thank you for having me.
Nice to have you.
Thank you so much.
I'm so glad to be herechatting with you guys today.
Hey, that's what we do.
We are chatters.
So if you looked back on yourlife, say, 10, 12 years ago, would
you ever thought you.
You would be where you aretoday, not talking to us?
(01:18):
But, you know.
Absolutely not.
No.
I have, as I like to say,failed my way to success or to this
point in my life, which Iconsider a success.
But no, 10, 12 years, to behonest with you, I just, I wanted
to.
I told myself that I wanted tobe impactful in some way in this
industry.
(01:38):
And I didn't know what thatlooked like.
I didn't know if that lookedlike, you know, restaurant managing.
You know, I didn't know whatit looked like.
And I really left myself openfor everything and I landed up here.
Well, good.
What prompted you to get intothe food world?
Making money in college?
(01:59):
Actually, I was a brokecollege student and my first job
in a restaurant industry.
I was a greeter at Houston'srestaurant there across the country.
But I was a greeter transitioninto a server and bartender.
And I did all the things frontof the house.
So that was my first taste.
And once I graduated college,I actually worked in the, in the
(02:20):
healthcare industry.
My degree is in healthcare administration.
And, you know, I truly missed it.
I missed that every day wasdifferent in the restaurant industry.
I missed learning about food.
I miss learning about wine.
And that kind of just startedmy interest in food.
Well, good, good.
And you work.
I love Houston's, by the way.
Yeah, I still do.
(02:42):
I've eaten at a few of them.
So, yeah, that's all Good.
You got some good hands onojt, right, With Greg Gatlin.
Tell us about that.
Working with Greg.
Yeah.
At this point in my career, Ihad decided to.
I had just finished culinaryschool, well, maybe a couple years
(03:03):
before I met Greg.
But I Now I'm knee deep inback of the house.
I let go everything front ofthe house.
I'm knee deep in back of thehouse and learning.
And I randomly met Greg.
I was out with my.
I have a twin sister.
We were out at a party, and Iwas like, you know, that's that barbecue
guy.
Like, he's with his wife atthe time.
And I was like, you know, Iknow him from somewhere.
(03:25):
We.
My sister introduced us.
We kind of just did like, hey,I really love your barbecue.
You know, just, you know, wewere just giving him all the positive
praises that night.
And he was just such a niceperson and just so eager, even in
that moment, to teach and learn.
And he invited me to come tohis restaurant.
He showed me what he did, and,you know, we just became friends
(03:46):
over time.
You know, I got a chance tomeet his wife, his parents and everything,
and they were just lovely people.
And then after a few months,he extended an invitation.
He really liked my background,having some formal training in an
actual restaurant setting andI think was really, you know, impressive
to him.
In barbecue, a lot of timesyou get pitmasters in restaurants,
(04:09):
tourists who have never had that.
That training.
Right.
And so he was like, man, Ithink you can add something to this
team.
And so that's how I got started.
And I went in, you know, as afemale, not, you know, of course
I barbecued before.
My.
My father was an avid griller,so I was familiar with it, but I
hadn't learned on that level.
(04:29):
And he was just, you know, Iwas eager to learn and he was willing
to teach.
And so I, you know, they kepttrying to put me on the side dishes,
of which I handle.
I'm like, no, I want to carrysome cases of briskets.
I want this down.
Show me everything.
And, you know, I convinced himand his father to teach me.
And so that's how I got my training.
(04:50):
I was just really, really adamant.
I think that, you know, as,you know, if you're not learning
anything, you're not growing.
And I just really, reallywanted to grow in this.
In this sector of food.
And, you know, they saw that Iwas eager and they taught me everything.
I mean, up at 3, 30, 4 o'clock in the restaurant and putting
in the hours.
Yeah, there you go.
You Know, Leanne ranrestaurants and stuff.
(05:12):
Yeah.
Do you think that's important?
I mean, you've got your ownrestaurant now.
I know that's important for that.
But as far as the barbecueworld, you touched on it a minute
ago that a lot of thepitmasters don't have classical restaurant
training or food training.
A lot of them haven't run arestaurant, which is a lot different
(05:33):
than dragging around a pit andcooking some briskets and butts and
stuff, you know?
How important do you thinkthat is?
I definitely think it is important.
I think somebody on the team,because at some point, you go from
maybe you and one other personwith your pit out in the field selling
plates to actually runningthis business, and at that point
where you decide, we want todo this on a larger scale, it becomes
(05:56):
a different thing.
Right.
And so I think someone on theteam should have some level of restaurant
exposure.
Right.
So that you understand whatservices and ordering from, you know,
P and L and knowing numbers.
I think it's super important.
Important to have prior to alot of people just get the.
On the drive training and.
(06:16):
And that's cool, too.
But, like, I think it's.
I think it's.
I think it's a part of.
Of how you grow, so I thinkit's important.
Yeah.
Leanne, what's your thoughtson that?
I think you have to.
You know, you hear of peoplesaying, oh, you make the best lasagna.
You should open an Italian restaurant.
Well, yeah, it's not as simpleas making lasagna.
(06:38):
No, it is a business.
It's.
Food is a large part of it,but it comes down to profitability
and numbers and building yourcustomer base and keeping your customers
and knowing how to do that.
So there's so much involvedthat you have to.
You have to have access to.
Piggyback on that statement.
(06:59):
I actually think making goodfood is one of the smaller portions
of that entire scope.
Yeah.
I owned a restaurant or adeli, actually, for about two weeks,
and then I sold.
I sold it back because Ididn't have.
I kind of bought it as aninvestment with a friend of mine,
and he was actually in therestaurant business, and he had sold
(07:21):
all this stuff, and he wantedto do it.
And then when he came to meand I was traveling a lot in those
days, and I also had a retailbusiness, and he said, what shift
are you going to work?
And I went, no, I'm alreadydoing, like, 67 hours a week.
So, you know, there's no shiftin there.
So.
But I. I did run a cateringcompany for a long time.
(07:42):
So, anyway, what's the biggestthing you think you've learned about
dealing with people and food?
Because that's, that's alwaysa big.
Like you, like Leanne just said.
And you've said, you know, youcan make a great lasagna, you can
make a great brisket, but whenyou actually put it out there in
front of the public and youhave to deal with those people, you
(08:04):
know, face to face, one onone, whatever it is, that's a whole
different ballgame.
So what do you think you'velearned about that?
I think that I've learned thatpeople just simply want.
Consistently.
Consistency.
Yeah.
And every day they want tocome to you.
Every day that you're open,they want to know that the brisket
on Monday at 11am is the samebrisket that you get Wednesday at
(08:27):
4pm you know what I mean?
And they can trust that.
They can get that every timethey come to you.
If on Monday your briskettastes like one thing and on Thursday
it tastes a little bitdifferent, you know, people can't
trust you.
You know, they can't trust the product.
And so for the big.
The biggest thing is thatpeople, they don't mind spending
(08:48):
their money.
They just want to make surethat they're spending their money
on something good and thatit's consistent.
Yeah, I would.
I would agree.
The Pacific Northwest, where Ilive, is not known for dynamite barbecue,
although we have some.
Some good stores here, if you will.
Yeah, like that.
But we see a lot of them kindof start up and they have a little
(09:10):
splash and then they get alittle quiet and then they go away.
And that's.
And I think the reason is twofold.
One, what you just said,consistency in the product.
And two, a lot of them havenot run a restaurant business or
a catering company, if that.
And, you know, getting theorders in on time for the, for the
(09:33):
food products and dealing withemployees and, you know, HR issues,
if you will.
I mean, all that stuff goesinto it.
Oh, 100%.
You know, I just.
It is tough.
We are in a tough time right now.
Economically, employees is thebiggest thing.
You know, I have a lot ofpeople in the, in the barbecue world
(09:55):
and beyond that is one of themost important things that they talk
about.
They're either looking foremployees, they can't retain them.
And for, For a magnitude ofreasons, but it's, it's, you know,
you can't.
It's hard to run a business by yourself.
You need employees.
Yeah, you do.
You gotta have somebody toflog, you know.
Right.
(10:15):
Throw a lemonade or whatever.
So you said you had a twin sister.
Is she involved in any of yourbusiness or.
You know, I'm trying to gether to quit her job every single
day and she don't do it.
She.
Yeah, we.
So we operate a lot atfarmer's markets, of which I love
to do.
(10:35):
And so she'll help me at thefarmer's markets, but beyond that.
No, no, I don't need her inthe kitchen.
She's, she's, you know, I needher answering the email said, you
know, doing the administrative stuff.
Can she cook?
I mean, you know, at all?
Yeah, I mean, she won't gohungry, but they won't be, they will
(10:59):
not be culinary, you know,creation that you would want to put
on the menu.
So.
No, the blue and yellow Kraftmacaroni and cheese box type thing.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
She took the bake.
Basic skills of what mom andgrandmom and dad taught us all.
We always used to, we alwaysused to say, ask my dad if he could
(11:22):
boil water without burning it.
Oh, gosh.
And I'll tell you what, he wasthe greatest actor I ever met because
he pulled that crap off for years.
But when my mom was out oftown, we would have these marvelous
breakfasts and dinner and hewould cook them.
But when she came home,couldn't do a thing.
We're gonna take a break hereon the Nation and be back with Michelle
(11:42):
Wallace and of course, Leanneand myself after this.
Don't go away.
Ready for a new ride?
Choose from over a thousandvehicles at Westin Kia.
Like a new Kia Sportage, SoulForte, K4 Sorento Telluride or Carnival
Gas, electric or hybrid.
Oregon's all time leader inKia sales.
Everyone wins at Westin.
1994 to 2023, Westin Kia soldmore new Kias than any other Kia
dealer in Oregon.
Reported by kiacor.
(12:11):
Everybody, it's Jeff here.
I want to tell you aboutsomething really cool.
Heritage steel cookware.
I just got mine.
I do a lot of cooking and.
It'S got five ply construction.
Stay cool handles.
It's titanium strengthened.
It's got all the great stuff.
Just go to HeritageSteel usand find out more.
You'll love it.
I guarantee it.
(12:40):
This is an encore.
Welcome back to the nation.
That's Barbecue Nation.
I'm jt along with a hall offamer and my partner in crime, Leanne
Whippin.
Of course, if you want toemail us, it's just go to the website
barbecue nation jt.com and youcan send us a note there.
You can find us on Facebookand Twitter.
(13:00):
We have the show accounts.
We have our personal accounts.
Leanne's got, like, 10 million accounts.
So all you have to do is typein Leanne whipping and the page lights
up so you can find her rightthere like that.
So.
But today we're talking withMichelle Wallace.
You saw her on High on the Hog.
(13:20):
You've seen her on Barbecue Brawl.
What was that like for you?
Everybody that I know that dida show and Leanne, of course, was
on the original Pit Mastersand all that stuff, they've all had
different experiences.
So tell us about yours.
I enjoy television.
(13:42):
I didn't know this until,basically, Barbecue Brawl competition
is competition, right?
It's intense.
It's, you know, you want to go hard.
My experience on BarbecueBrawl was, you know, it's all fine.
Like, I'm easy.
Like, Sunday morning, it takesa lot to kind of, you know, take
me to another space.
But for me, I stay in my bubble.
(14:02):
I want to, you know, execute.
I'm thinking about all thethings that you need to think about.
Right.
How's the fire going?
How's my creek?
Creativity.
And then how's my time?
Am I moving quick enough?
But, you know, barbecue brawas light work in comparison to Top
Chef, which is a crazy kindof, you know, transition.
(14:23):
But I enjoy barbecue bra.
I think it's.
It's.
It's a lot of just high heatcooking to start off.
I don't know.
Leanne, would you agree with that?
But then I did make it to theend, so I didn't get a chance to
do the longer smokes, but,yeah, no, I think it was cool.
Yeah, fun.
A lot of fun.
I think as they progressed inthe brawl, they had more competitors
(14:46):
in the first season, so we hadlonger cooks, and they got shorter
as it progressed.
Oh, got it.
And you had in between shortcooks, but there were long ones almost
for every episode.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
It was a little bit different.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You were in season one.
You.
Yeah, season one.
So, yeah, I heard howdifferent season one is to.
(15:07):
To where the show is today.
Right?
It is different.
So from a productionstandpoint, did they give you chairs
with your name on them?
No.
And I asked you, and they justlooked at me like I was crazy.
Well, you got to ask, youknow, if it's a Hollywood deal, if
(15:28):
you don't ask, you never.
You never.
Never gonna get it.
Did you learn anything?
I mean, you obviously learnabout some aspects of television
production.
You can't help it if you're ona set doing something like brawl
or throw down or whatever, right?
You see things happening, andyou get used to the timing and all
(15:49):
that.
But did it also really sharpenyour cooking timing and skills, would
you say?
I did almost in a differentway than you might expect.
I went in really, like, havingthis chefy kind of approach to barbecue.
(16:09):
And at that time, you know, Ithink I was thinking too far, right.
Barbecue sometimes can just bethis simple thing of just, you know,
fire, smoke, time, some reallygreat seasonings, and then present
it in a simple way.
And so for me, there was a lotof trimming in my thought process
(16:31):
when I'm executing that I hadto do.
And just basically, honestlyjust kind of keep it simple, but
in a complex way.
You know, barbecue isn'tsimple, but I was just trying to
do too much.
And so it taught me to try to,you know, just kind of reserve my
thoughts a little bit or honethem when I have an idea.
How do I bring it in and thenpresent something amazing, really
(16:56):
sharpen the focus.
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
I'm a creative, and I love,like, you know, what if this, And
I can do this and I can dothat, and I can do this.
And it was just too manythings, right?
And so I quickly learned howto kind of just trim my thoughts
down.
You're not a happy person, are you?
Not at all.
(17:16):
Not at all.
Not at all, man.
Listen, we get one life, right?
And I'm not a neurosurgeon.
Like, no one's life is on theline with what I'm doing, right?
And so we all have to eat.
I love the fellowship thatfood provides.
I love hanging out with newpeople because, you know, we can
get.
We can have theseconversations if I'm sitting with
(17:38):
you, Leanne, or you, Jeff, andwe can.
We can come together about atime that we had some amazing brisket
or some ribs or.
I mean, I just really thinkfood brings us together.
And I love.
I literally love what I do,and I love the people in it.
And, you know, how can you notbe happy?
Yeah.
That's why you're successful.
Seriously.
Sorry.
Thank you.
I love.
I just love the enthusiasm andthe smile.
(18:01):
You got a million dollar smilethere, kids.
I just love it.
Do you think in barbecue thatsometimes we especially maybe on
the competitive side that.
And we ask this of a lot ofour guests, but maybe they should
expand more, do pork chops.
(18:23):
I'm just throwing some stuffout there at you.
You know what I mean, kind ofnow we're seeing it with sides and
we're seeing like, with thesteak cook off associations and all
that in the, in the maincompetitions, and they're doing some
of it, but I, I personallywould like to see them do something
more.
Yeah, yeah, I, you know, Isupport that message.
(18:46):
I literally, in a lot ofinterviews that I've been giving
lately, I tell people I thinkI do unconventional barbecue.
Like, I don't at my pop upsand things of that nature.
Yes, I'm a barbecue girl, andyou might consider me a pitmaster,
but I'm these ingredients in adifferent way a lot of the time.
(19:08):
So my training is classic.
Right.
East Texas barbecue.
You can see that.
You can see my Southernheritage and a lot of that.
But then I also like to turnit on its head.
So how can I take this smokedgoat that I might apply those classic
techniques that I got righttraining in and then I flip it into
another dish.
And so I think it would begreat to see that happening in competitions
(19:32):
where you have, like, thisunconventional approach to, you know,
a dish or, you know, to smoke.
You know, I smoke strawberries to.
And make a strawberry jam.
You know, I smoke collard greens.
I smoke, you know, like Isaid, I do.
I smoke goat.
And I know that's not foreign,but we don't see that a lot in competition.
You know, Leanne's cooked with me.
(19:54):
She cooked with me for about aweek last year.
How'd that go?
Great.
We got a lot of complimentsabout our rapport.
How's that?
Oh, that's good.
That's really good.
All right, we're going to takeanother break.
We're going to be back withMichelle Wallace, and we're going
to talk about some morebarbecue things and some more TV
things.
(20:14):
And I know Leanne will sneak apersonal question in there too, now
and then.
So we'll be right back.
Okay.
Hey, everybody, it's JT And Ihave eaten.
If you've ever looked at me,you know that.
(20:36):
But I have eaten seafood allover the world, and I can tell you
there's no place better thanin Oregon and our Dungeness crab.
If you want to learn moreabout Oregon Dungeness crab, just
go to oregondungeness.org.
And find out how to cook it.
How to catch it, where to buyit, and the sustainability of what
they're doing there in theOregon Crab Commission.
(20:56):
Check it out.
This is an encore.
Welcome back to the nation.
Thanks for being with us today.
We appreciate you more thanyou know, we're talking with Michelle
Wallace today when.
(21:17):
When Greg sat a brisket infront of you and said, have at it,
and he handed you a knife, what.
What was your first response?
Like, oh, my God.
No, I. I was faking it until Imade it.
Made it.
I took that knife and I actedlike I knew exactly what I.
(21:38):
And then he was like, stop.
No.
So, yeah, I, you know, it's.
It's one thing is, you know, Iwas the only female in that kitchen
when I got hired.
You know, all the other ladieswere doing the side dishes and desserts
and stuff.
And so I tried to attack it,acting like, you know, I knew it
all.
And, you know, he quickly told me.
(22:00):
Corrected that.
Stopped it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And at that point, you know, Ilet it all down.
Like, tell me what I need to know.
Do you.
That training that you hadwith him and his time, will you be
willing to do that withsomebody else going down the road?
1,000%.
I don't think you can growwithout teaching.
(22:21):
Right.
If I, If I take it all in, Ishould be able to tell someone else,
and I don't know that I can dothat until I do that.
One and two.
You know, there's so much roomfor us.
All right, so how can I.
The buck can never stop with me.
It will never stop with me.
So I'm teaching.
I'm already teaching.
Teaching.
I'm planning to do some morekind of barbecue things on the farm.
(22:45):
And so I'm working closelywith some high school students as
well as some culinary studentshere who have interest in smoking
meats.
And so, yeah, you know, I lookforward to teaching.
Any moment that I can do that,I sign up for it.
You said you like farmersmarkets and pop ups and things like
that.
Do you.
(23:07):
Do you actually present thebarbecue or.
You were talking about yousmoked strawberries to make jam out
of them, which I think is.
Sounds delicious, but.
Yeah, I'd love some.
I'll send you my address.
Okay, yeah, I'll send you something.
Maybe we can trade.
I'll trade you some ofLeanne's pig powder, which she will
send you, and then you cansend me the strawberries.
(23:28):
There you go, 100%.
Send me your address.
I'll get it to you.
Okay.
But you know, what I'm sayingis you go out local here, you've
been on national television,you got a restaurant, you're doing
all this stuff.
How important is it?
I'll just simplify it like this.
How important is it for you tostay Connected to the local scene.
(23:49):
Oh, extremely important.
You know, if your community,where you live or reside, they have
to be the ones to support you first.
Like, you know, I loveeveryone who supports Michelle.
I've gotten a lot of amazingfeedback from being on all the shows,
but home is home.
You got.
And you have to take care of home.
(24:09):
Right.
And I.
These people are essentially family.
They're extensions of what you do.
They support you, and we talkabout supporting local.
And I believe that I'mgrateful for every single person
that comes to my markets andshow up and show love.
And so it is extremelyimportant to, you know, make sure
that the home team is gettingtaken care of.
(24:30):
Right.
What.
What do you do?
There's.
There's.
It happens to all of us.
There's 1 in 253,000, 142people that says, I don't like this.
How do you deal with that?
Me?
I just throw stuff at.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I really.
I try to listen to whatthey're saying and then see if there's
(24:54):
anything in my repertoire, seeif anything of what I'm serving that
can fit into what theyactually like.
And then if they're promisingme, like, when are you gonna come
in again?
And I might try to makesomething up and have it ready for
them, just specifically for them.
And so for me, when someone'sable to tell me that they don't like
something on my menu, thatgives me an opportunity, a small
(25:16):
window to actually connectwith them.
And that's hearing firsthandwhat consumers might want.
There might be 100 people whothink just like that person.
And so I try to say, okay,cool, this doesn't work for you,
but what does?
And then if there's somethingthat I can do to make that person
happy, I'll try to execute it.
Because you never know.
It might be a winner on themenu later.
(25:36):
Yeah.
So if Leanne and I walked intoyour restaurant, what would you service?
Oh, I really have been intothis whole smoking goat thing, but
I do this cabrito collardgreens, but it's smoked goat braised
collard greens with somebutter beans in it.
And so good.
And I make this cornbreadcroutons to go with it.
(25:58):
It's Chef's Kiss.
Sounds delicious.
Yeah.
But, yeah, I would make you that.
And then I also make a smokedoxtail grilled cheese, and it's really
good.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's.
That's all good.
Yeah.
Look, if Leanne comes toHouston, you have to give her A bib,
(26:20):
though, because she gets alittle messy.
She gets real excited.
No, I'm sure she eats justlike a lady.
She looks.
So do you serve a traditionalbarbecue or is.
Or is it all.
Because it sounds like yourmenu is kind of fancy a little bit.
You know, like I said earlier,I do things in a non traditional
(26:42):
way.
So I learned traditional Texasstyle barbecue right in the process.
And from time to time, you'llsee I'll pull out smoking a brisket,
you know, and I'll pull outsmoking some ribs or whatever.
But mostly I usually take.
Take smoked goods and thenflip it into a different dish.
And so that's what you'll see.
Yeah, I like that.
(27:02):
I like that a lot.
What are you working on now?
Because just in the last.
What's this, the 23rd minuteof the interview here or something,
you've told me about a half adozen things that you've created
in that.
But what are you working on now?
So now actually just toslightly actually correct you a little
(27:24):
bit, I actually don't have abrick and mortar.
Most of my events are atfarmers markets and pop ups, and
I actually kind of love itthat way.
I've been in restaurants forover 20 years now, and so I am working
on getting a series of farmdinners done, but the focus point
on barbecuing.
And so I have access to thisbig barrel pit.
(27:45):
I have an in ground pit.
And so I'm gonna bring some ofmy chef friends.
Maybe I can get you guys tocome out too.
But what we do, what the planis to sell tickets for, people can
have this experience at a pit.
People from different backgrounds.
Right.
And everything has to be doneon a pit, whether it's high heat,
low and slow, however we do it.
(28:07):
But just have some fun, eatsome barbecue, and just kind of learn
a few things.
They'll be able to kind of mixand mingle with us, but I'm working
on that.
Hopefully I can get thatlaunched today, this year, sometime.
What else?
I've been traveling a lot.
Being on Top Chef has beenreally life changing.
And I'll be in Portland nextweek, actually for a pop up.
(28:29):
Yeah, yeah.
And I get a chance to showcasea lot of my barbecue skills.
I'm working with ton charcoal.
We're gonna do some grillingof meats out there.
What else am I working on?
I have a few things that Ireally can't talk about right now,
but so people have to juststay tuned in.
Well, you'll have to send me.
You'll have to send me exactlywhen and where you're gonna be, and
(28:51):
I'll try to break away andcome see you when you're up there.
Oh.
Oh, yes.
I would love that.
Yeah.
It's called Someday Bar, andI'm not sure if you're familiar with
Tan Charco, but they do.
They sell the Japanese stylegrills, but they also sell charcoal
as well.
And so we met at SouthernSmoke, which is a big festival raising
money for people in theindustry, and we booked a great relationship
(29:15):
and they invited me out tocome cook and smoke and grill some
meat.
So I'll be out there.
February 5th and 6th is a popup at Someday Bar, but I'll send
it to you for sure.
Okay.
Yeah, I'll see if I can make that.
That would be fun.
That's fun.
Yeah.
We'll get on FaceTime withLeanne and go.
And then don't make me jealousthat I want to be there eating her
(29:35):
food.
Leanne, what city are you in?
I'm in Tampa.
You're in Tampa.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
So a little far from Portland,but my daughter's over in the Portland
area, so I'll have to let her know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I, I just admire you, Leanne.
I think you're phenomenal.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
I. Yeah, it's, It's.
(29:56):
It's tough being a woman inthis industry, isn't it?
Yes, yes.
Sometimes.
Sometimes you can work it toyour advantage.
So there's pluses and minuses,as you know, 100%.
Yeah, well, I. Leanne, youknow, she reached for the Tampa Bay
Buccaneers, so.
Yeah.
And you.
(30:16):
They didn't make it.
They didn't make it.
Well, neither did Hous, so.
Yeah, yeah.
You put up.
Both of them.
Put up.
Valiant efforts.
Indeed, indeed.
But they got smoked in the end.
Haha.
Yeah.
Like that.
So do you ever have desires to.
God, and I really hope you sayno to this.
(30:38):
Do you ever have desires tocome into the, like, the rub business
and sauce business?
It seems like everybody wetalk to and look at her, look at
her, look at that face saying,oh, yeah, I've got my new line.
But, you know, that's a toughgig too.
Yeah, no, it is actually theanswer to that.
I agree with you.
(30:58):
There's so many.
I mean, what new ways are weactually putting rubs together?
Right.
You know, everyone has a lotof the same things.
I told you guys earlier, I amvery much unconventional.
Right.
And so I have different things.
If you kind of look through mypage, like, I, I'VE met.
The only thing that I've everdone that has some level of seasoning
(31:20):
to it is smoked brisket salt.
So there one day I burned acouple of briskets terribly, right?
And I'm like, gosh, I'vewasted this money.
And you know, but they weren'tso far gone, right?
They just were dry.
And so I took the flax and Iwas like, what can I do with this?
I dehydrated them and then Igrounded it, mixed it with salt and
(31:41):
I turned it into a smokedbrisket salt.
And it's like smoky, beefykind of thing.
And so I make that and put iton like popcorn.
That's really all I put it on.
So that's the only thing Iever done.
But like, things like mysmoked strawberry jam, things like,
you know, my.
I make this collard greensauce verde, if you're familiar with
(32:02):
like the Italians, almost likea chimichurri type thing.
Like, those are the kinds ofthings that I get excited about and
I think people get excitedabout because they're a little bit
different.
And so I've been working on afew things like that, but not no
seasonings or anything like that.
I vote.
I vote Michelle, the smartestguest that we've had on in the last
(32:23):
year because she said no to that.
Anyway, we're going to take a break.
We're going to be back in thenation with Leanne and Michelle and
myself right after this.
Don't go away.
Ready for a new ride?
Choose from over a thousandvehicles at Weston Kia.
Like a new Kia Sportage, SolForte, K4, Sorento Telluride or Carnival
Gas, electric or hybrid.
Oregon's all time leader inKia sales.
(32:43):
Everyone wins at Weston.
1994-2023 Weston Kia has soldmore new Kias than any other Kia
dealer in Oregon.
Reported by kcor.
Hey everybody, it's jt.
You know, I talk about paintedhills all the time and we always
say beef the way nature intended.
(33:04):
But it's more than thatbecause each bite of painted hills
will make your taste buds explode.
Put a big bright smile on yourface and whoever's at your dinner
table will have a big brightsmile on their face.
And you can thank me for that later.
Just go topaintedhillsbeef.com and find out
more.
You won't regret it.
Hey, everybody, J.T.
here.
I want to tell you about theHammerstahl knives.
(33:27):
Hammer Stahl combines Germansteel with beautiful and functioning
designs.
They're part of the HeritageSteel group, which also does their
Pots and pans.
So go to heritagesteel us.
Check out the hammerstahl knives.
If you're really into cooking,I think you're really gonna.
(33:52):
This is an encore.
Welcome back to the nation.
I forgot to do something last segment.
Speaking of ripping on peopleand spices, Leanne, tell us about
pig powder.
Oh, pig powder.
So, gosh.
Pig powder.
Yeah.
Spicy pig powder is rightaround the corner, as I've been saying
for a couple weeks now, but itjust takes a while to get it launched.
(34:15):
So I'm excited about thatcoming out.
You can get pigpowder@pigpowder.com or on Amazon.
And it is sweet with a littlebit of spice to it and can be used
on collard greens like she wastalking about.
I'm gonna order.
I am definitely ordering some.
It's nice.
No, I'll send you some.
It really is very versatileand good on french fries, baked beans,
(34:38):
you name it.
And won the award of best rubon the planet.
And thanks to my dad, it did.
And it is.
And I used some on some salmonthe other night.
Salmon would be delicious.
We kind of did.
I was looking at that segmentthat last seg we did on the TV show,
and I had.
I think I had used some pinkpowder on that or one of them.
(34:59):
I can't remember.
Yeah, but.
But it is good on salmon.
Yeah.
And I. I made some salmon theother night, and it was quite good.
And the little.
There was a little happy redtop, you know, jar there with a little
cute pig on it.
So I was just at the LakelandBarbecue Pig Fest this weekend and
cooked a couple hundred poundsof tenderloin and pork butts and
(35:22):
had something over there.
So it was good.
People like it.
Good for you.
Okay, Michelle.
What?
When this.
When this next segment isover, then we do a thing called After
Hours.
And I'm just going to forewarnyou because that's where you can
swear and we have to bleep outLeanne sometime, but.
(35:44):
Not true.
But.
So we're just wrapping up theregular show here.
Is there anything that you.
You haven't done in the.
Just talk about barbecue for a second.
That you want to do with barbecue?
That's a great question.
(36:05):
Is there anything that Ihaven't done that I want to do in
barbecue?
I've only ever smoked a wholepig once, and one of my dreams is
really to smoke a whole pig.
But in Hawaii before, untilthat's able to happen, I would love
to do more kind of wholeanimal smokes, if that makes sense.
(36:25):
Like you know, I would love todo more of that.
Yeah.
But no, like, I really, youknow, when I used to work with Greg,
he'd be like, wallace, bringit in, bring it in.
He used to be like, I have an idea.
He's like, no, but, you know,my parents are really just amazing.
(36:49):
My father is no longer withus, but.
But they really taught usearly on, like, don't be afraid to
take chances.
They may not all work, butdon't be afraid.
And so I really have lived byjust kind of going for the gusto.
I failed a lot of times orthings didn't work quite how I thought.
But, yeah, I usually try to dowhatever I can think of.
(37:09):
And if I can't think of it,that means I need to learn it.
And so I really try to be opento learning.
But, yeah, I would love tosmoke more.
Whole kind of animals, a wholepig, whole land, all that.
Yeah.
I'll tell you a very quick story.
I'm full of stories.
That's not what Leanne saysI'm full of, but I am full of stories.
All right, so we did a littlefamily vacation in November, and
(37:34):
we went to Hawaii.
And in fact, my in laws fromHouston went with us.
And we go to this luau.
My wife and my sister in lawhad this all planned.
And we get this VIP treatmentat the luau and all that.
It was, it was lovely.
It was fun and all this.
But of course, you're, youknow, they got a, they got a pig
(37:54):
in the ground, right.
So everybody gets to go overand watch the pig taken out of the
ground.
This was not much bigger thana wiener pig.
And there was like, there was350 people there.
Wow.
And Jerome and I are lookingat that pig coming out of there,
and they make a big deal aboutit and they play over it and all
(38:15):
that stuff, which is cool, youknow, and they bring it up and they,
they got two guys carrying itbecause they still got the rod running
through it and they got gloves on.
But this pig is like this big.
Yeah.
That wouldn't even feed our table.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a showpiece.
Yeah.
Winnie the Pooh didn't see itbecause he'd been really upset.
(38:36):
You know, like, out of all theTV shows that you've been on, and
I'm assuming you will be on more.
Without giving away anysecrets, which one was favorite to
do?
Probably Top Chef, although itwas the.
The most intense.
But that's why it's my favorite.
(38:58):
Right.
It really, really pushes youto the limit.
And There are no.
There are no reprieve fromthat competition.
So you don't.
You know, we're not.
We're not able to watch television.
We're not able to call.
Like, I couldn't call my.
My boyfriend.
I couldn't speak with my sister.
There were no.
All you have is.
Is 14 other people who are inthis stressful environment for weeks.
(39:21):
You know what I mean?
And it really tests you.
It tests you mentally.
It tests you physically.
And to be able to go as far asI did, I did not win.
Sad about that, but I stillmade it to the top five.
And to go that far, really, really.
I'm definitely proud of myselffor even going out for the show,
(39:43):
but then also making it thatfar and then being impressive to
still be able to put.
To think as quickly as youneed to think and to execute at that
level.
You know, I'm definitely proudof myself for going through that.
Good for you.
Thank you.
I think I have PTSD from it,but, yeah, I'm so proud.
(40:09):
If you had a message to giveto people right now, Michelle, what
would it be?
My message is, you know,always one, first and foremost, just
have fun with it.
Right.
Saving lives.
But we are enjoying each otherright through food.
And don't be afraid to fail.
I swear, it gets you.
It makes you so much better.
(40:30):
It keeps you humble.
It keeps you light on your toes.
But just don't be afraid totry things, and then don't be afraid
to fail.
It's in the getting up andtrying again and doing again is what
makes you great.
And so, yeah, that's my message.
Okay.
All right.
And last question for theregular show.
(40:54):
What's your favorite thing to eat?
We've talked about all thisfood and all this stuff, but you.
Wait.
I haven't asked you.
What's your favorite thing to eat?
My favorite thing to eat are one.
Potatoes.
I love potatoes.
Any way you do it.
French fries, hash browns, whatever.
But if you make me choose, Ilove a good, good grilled hamburger
(41:19):
cheeseburger.
One of my favorite things to eat.
Yep.
And I like it a different kindof ways.
I like it with mushrooms.
I like it with jalapenos.
I like it with chili.
Like, give me a good burger.
I'm a happy gal.
Okay.
And how can people find you onthe web and stuff?
Find out more about you andall that?
Yes, people can find me@chefMichelleWallace.com you can also
(41:39):
find me on Instagram at.
Between the slices.
I have not tapped into theTikTok and all that other stuff.
I have an account, but I'm notvery active.
So, hey, over to Instagram,which is where I do most of my updating,
and it's between the slices.
Okay.
Michelle Wallace, good luckwith everything.
Michelle is going to stickaround for after hours.
(41:59):
Yes.
So we can abuse her for the.
Next 15 minutes like that.
So we got to get out of here.
Thanks, everybody, for listening.
We'll be back next week withanother edition of Barbecue Nation.
Remember our motto here.
Turn it, don't burn it.
Go out and make some good foodand have fun.
Take care, everybody.
Barbecue Nation is produced byJTSD LLC Productions in association
(42:20):
with Salem Media Group.
All rights reserved.
Popular Podcasts
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!