September 20, 2025 • 42 mins
This podcast episode features an engaging discussion with Chef Ray Sheehan, who shares insights from his recent endeavors in the barbecue industry. Chef Sheehan reflects on the challenges he faced while operating his restaurant, Raised Roadside Kitchen, which specialized in comfort food and barbecue but ultimately did not succeed as anticipated. He emphasizes the importance of adhering to one's culinary strengths and the necessity of adapting business strategies in the competitive food landscape. Furthermore, he discusses his aspirations for the future, including potential new writing projects and a renewed focus on barbecue sauce. Our conversation underscores the resilience required in the culinary arts and the ongoing evolution of food trends.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painted Hills Natural Beef
- Weston Kia
- Heritage Steel
- Oregon Dungeness Crab
- Pig Powder
- Bear Mountain BBQ
- Magna Chef
- Sweet Baby Rays
- Dave Raymond
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
It's time for Barbecue Nationwith JT So fire up your grill, light
the charcoal, and get yoursmoker cooking.
Now from the Turn It, Go Burnit studios in Portland, here's jt.
This is an encore.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to Barbecue Nation.
I'm JT along with my co host,Barbecue hall of Fame member Leanne
Whippen.
And we're coming to you fromour respective Turn It, Don't Burn
(00:32):
it studios on opposite ends ofthe country.
One in Portland and one in Tampa.
We'd like to thank the folksat Painted Hills Natural Beef, the
way nature intended to be.
Find out more about PaintedHills, just go to paintedhillsbeef.com
well, we're very fortunate tohave our friend Chef Ray Sheehan
back with us as our firstguest of the year.
(00:53):
Yay.
Clap.
Ray's been busy.
Besides writing cookbooks and.
And doing his barbecue stuff.
He had a restaurant and now I.
We're going to find out if hesold it or not.
And he's been very busy always creating.
Ray, welcome to the show.
Well, what a great way tostart the new year.
(01:16):
Thank you for having me on theBarbecue Nation, one of my favorite
shows.
Thank you.
Well, you're welcome, and weappreciate that.
So what's going on in New Jersey?
Oh, man, it's just been, youknow, quite a roller coaster the
last year.
Looking for bigger and betterthings in 24.
I think the last time wespoke, my book came out Big Green
(01:39):
Egg Basics, and I'm here toreport that it was Barbecue Book
of the runner up Barbecue Bookof the Year for the National Barbecue
and Grilling association last year.
Thank you.
So I think Meet Mitch's bookwas in first place, so I was in great
(01:59):
company.
So a lot has happened since then.
Towards the end of 22, I asauce and seasoning company, and
I sold the trademark to the name.
And if in effect, I basicallyclosed that chapter or I was going
to rebrand and temporarilyclosed it.
And we opened a restaurantcalled Raised Roadside Kitchen.
(02:23):
It featured handcraftedburgers, Southern fried chicken,
and barbecue specialties.
And we became known for havingone of the top bowls of chili in
the state, some of the bestfried chicken.
But ultimately andunfortunately, the restaurant didn't
work out as much effort as weall put into it.
(02:44):
Had a few partners, and in theend, we ended up closing.
And then it.
It got to a point where, youknow, I had to do some soul searching,
hence the, you know, moniker.
Chef Ray Sheehan.
I went back to my roots.
I have 25 years experience inthe hospitality and restaurant and
(03:04):
food industry.
Yeah.
So, you know, creating recipesand, you know, getting back to my
writing, I write for the Barbecue.
Barbecue News magazine.
I do recipes, articles,product reviews from time to time
and, you know, and cookbooks.
So I've tried to get back tothat and, you know, doing my.
(03:26):
Basically, like, privateevents, private chef catering and
corporate catering.
And so it's.
It's been a challenge.
It's been a little bit of a challenge.
And as you both know, withrestaurants and sauce and seasoning
companies and all that, Imean, it's.
It's.
Right.
I mean, it's.
It can pose its challenges.
So, yeah, you're.
(03:48):
You're talking to the rightgroup of people here.
Ray, you also said thatkeyword partner.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, you know, a partner, apartnership is like a great.
Is like a marriage.
Right.
And it's great when it worksand when you're both on the same
page or however many of thepartners there are, are on the same
(04:10):
page.
But if any one of thepartners, respectively, is in a different
direction, it really posessome really, really big issues for
your business.
Sure.
Yes, it does.
Even if there's goodintentions, I mean.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I think there's always, forthe most part, good intentions.
(04:31):
But my experience, and I don'twant to go too far in the weeds on
this, and like, Leanne can certainly.
That's a whole nother show.
That's a month's worth of shows.
Yeah.
And I'm not just talking aboutyour experience, but.
All right.
Yeah.
You know, like you said, acouple of business things I've been
(04:52):
in over the years where therewere multiple.
Multiple partners that never worked.
That.
That just didn't work.
Because fictitious scenariohere, if you had three partners and
yourself, three of you, as yousaid, might be on the same page and
one wants to go to Botswana or something.
You know what I mean?
(05:12):
It just.
Yeah, it just doesn't work.
And so you try to reign themin, and then that undercurrent starts
to wear on the other partners.
And, you know, if.
If you're the managing partneror whatever, it can still erode the
enthusiasm and stuff, and it'svery, very difficult.
So I commend you for giving ita big, good old college, Princeton
(05:36):
try there.
The reason I say Princeton isbecause we watched Oppenheimer the
other night.
So I've been thinking aboutNew Jersey.
But the point is, isrestaurant business, food business
is tough.
It's very tough in its own right.
It's very tough.
Right.
And I was the managing partnerthe day to day and it just, there's
(05:59):
so many reasons why a businesswill succeed or fail and having great
food is really just the start.
There's so many other thingsthat need to be in place.
Well, I, I liked it.
What I read about it.
I've never, I never got to goto it, Ray, but of course, but what
(06:19):
I liked about it is you werea, and you kind of address this at
the opening of the show.
You were kind of a home stylerestaurant with a, with an accent
of barbecue, not a barbecuerestaurant with an accent of home
style.
And that last description, ifyou will.
And I'd like Leanne's take on this.
(06:41):
That's what a lot of barbecuerestaurants do.
A lot of pit stops and stuff.
They're like, hey, we've gotbarbecue, but we've also got grandma's
macaroni and cheese here.
And yet when I looked at yourmenus and stuff a few times, it was
always, we've got the friedchicken, but we've got a touch of,
you know, bourbon sauce or something.
(07:01):
So I, I, I really liked thatmotif, if you will.
Yeah, I mean, it was basicallysomewhat of a country style comfort
food really.
I mean, and on, you know,Saturdays we feature, well, Fridays
and Saturdays we had slowsmoked brisket, we had our pulled
(07:21):
pork on the menu.
Then we used the pulled porkto do slow smoked Cubano sandwich
and, and then, you know, likethe homey kind of comforting Mac
and cheese and, and then wewould do some, some nice special.
So we, we weren't a diner likea New Jersey diner, but we had a
little something for everybodyfor lunch and dinner type place.
(07:43):
Yeah.
Leanne, when you're, you'vedone this a lot.
I know when you put together amenu like that, I mean, we're all
very familiar with, with foodand restaurants and stuff here today.
But when you're looking atputting a menu together, how do you
decide the direction of the,the offerings on a menu?
(08:07):
I mean, because that really isthe tale of what the restaurant is
about.
Right.
People are looking for whatthey're in the mood for, you know,
Italian, Greek barbecue.
So you have to focus on whatthe name of the restaurant is and
what it represents.
You can certainly add thingsto the menu.
I mean, you know, vegetariancraze, you know, in order to get
(08:30):
a group that's going to comein that has vegetarians, you got
to put a couple veggie itemson there so that they will come because
that one person might, youmight lose that Group.
So you have to think aboutthings like that.
Specials are always a good Dr.
But you do have to focus on,you know, the specialty that you're
trying to or the cuisine thatyou're trying to convey.
Because if you get into thattoo much mishmash, you're going to
(08:53):
lose your identity and you'regoing to turn into a diner, you know,
and you.
And that's what happens.
You can't.
A lot of the diners here inJersey, the menus are so big and
I do love diners, but it's.
When you have a huge menu likethat, it's really hard to keep everything
fresh.
So try to keep it a little bitsmaller of a menu.
And like our burgers wereground fresh every day.
(09:16):
We didn't use a frozen patty.
You know, those types ofthings I feel like make a difference
if you're able to have abutcher do that for you every day.
Yeah, I mean, I would.
That's what we wanted to do.
So I got to ask you guys, whenI go sit down at a restaurant and
Leon's been in the little townI live in, and you can go to them
and they're, they're fine,they're there.
(09:36):
Some of them are diners, someof them are a little better.
Not much, but you go there andyou look at the thing and you look
at the menu and like you said,the menu is a little lofty, a little
bigger than, you know, whatyou were directed at and yours or
Leanne's.
But I look at that and I'mreading that and I go, okay, that
comes from Cisco, that comesfrom Food Services America.
(10:01):
You know, I look at.
That comes from cash and carry.
And I doubt if too many peoplesitting at the restaurant when my
wife and I are there arethinking in those terms, but that's
the way I look at menus anymore.
But when I go to a diner likeyours, Ray, and they say, you know,
we grind our, our burger everymorning, you know, or right, you
(10:23):
know, we, we go to the fishmarket every morning.
Something like that.
That gets my attention.
Well, it's just like I loveonion rings.
And the first thing I'll askis, do you make the onion rings in
house?
And they have to tell you.
And so obviously, if you wantCisco onion rings, they do not.
Yeah, they look at you and go,no, but we got a 50 pound bag back
(10:46):
there in the freezer for you.
You know, we can whip some up.
But you know, five guys, theyfocus on their fries being fresh
cut and made, you know, toorder, you know, those are the draws.
And.
Yeah.
You know, makes it more homecooked than it is out of a box.
Yeah.
And I do that.
And I, and I also look at that.
I don't eat too many of themor drink too many of them.
(11:08):
But if they offer milkshakes,for example, and it's summertime,
I want to know if it's not apowdered confectionery, if they're
actually putting a real icecream in there that doesn't come
out of a soft serve.
You know what I mean?
It's not formulated.
They put real strawberries in there.
They have to put something alittle sweeter sometimes in real
strawberries, for example.
I like strawberry milkshakes.
But when you look at that,that, that's a sale for me or from
(11:31):
me, you know, like that.
I look at that.
We're going to take a break.
We're going to be back withchef ration and Ms. Whippen here
on Barbecue Nation.
I hope you all had a greatholiday season and a good new year.
I made black bean soup for New Year's.
Anyway, we'll be right back.
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(12:14):
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(12:40):
This is an encore.
Welcome back to the NationBarbecue Nation.
I'm JT along with Leanne Whippen.
Real quickly, if you want toemail us, you can just go to the
website which is barbecuenation, jt.com There's a contact
icon there.
You can do that.
You can also send it to info@becue nation jt.com you follow us
(13:02):
on Facebook.
Both Leanne and I and Ray alsowe have, you know, large Facebook
paces pages, got other platforms.
X formerly known as Twitterand Instagram.
Leanne's big on Instagram.
I know that.
And so just go out there,follow us, have some fun.
We're talking with chef RaySheehan today.
(13:25):
And Ray's been on the show before.
Before.
He's.
It's my first show back, soI'm getting a little tongue tied
here.
I haven't talked this much infive weeks.
I want to follow up with justone more thing on the restaurant.
Ray, what's the biggest thingyou learned out of that experience?
Now, you had plenty ofexperience going in with, you know,
being a chef, being a caterer,being in food service for a while.
(13:50):
We don't have to dateourselves this morning.
But what.
What's the biggest thing youthink you learned out of that?
On the food side.
Let's keep it positive on thefood side.
Absolutely.
I think on the.
On the food side.
You know, when I.
When I sat down with thepartners to come up with the concept
(14:12):
for the restaurant, theconcept became like, comfort food,
a take on, you know, with somebarbecue specialties.
And, you know, the burgerswere big and the fried chicken.
In this area, there wasn't alot of fried chicken.
And we.
We created.
I created this, like, thedredge that you would dip the chicken
(14:32):
into, and it was.
Had a real nice Southerncrispiness to it.
But I guess my biggesttakeaway would be stick with what
you're known for.
I am known in the barbecue space.
And everyone that walkedthrough the door wanted to know why
there wasn't more barbecue onthe menu.
And when it came clear to usthat we should pivot, not.
(14:54):
We.
We didn't pivot in the.
In the right way to.
To make that happen.
So I think sticking to yourguns, to what you.
What you know or what youbelieve in your heart will work.
That would probably be one ofmy biggest things going forward.
Was there anything on the menuthat you thought would be a hit that
was kind of halfway to whereyou expected it?
(15:18):
You know, you didn't.
So in.
Believe it or not, I. I mean,I don't know one particular thing,
but, like, we.
People would walk through the door.
This place had been abreakfast lunch place for so long.
People would walk through thedoor and order breakfast.
I mean, or they would orderstuff that wasn't on the menu, or
they would.
Wouldn't even look at the menu.
(15:38):
And that was just really frustrating.
Like, if someone just walks inyour door and it starts ordering,
but they don't even look atthe menu.
That was really hard.
That was.
Yeah, that was like, you know,that was challenging.
I know one thing that when Ido get to come to New Jersey and
see you in person, I want youto cook that part.
That fried chicken for Me,that stuff looked phenomenal.
(16:01):
Thank you very much.
You know, I've had to go backto my roots and in a way, reinvent
myself.
For the last 10 years, I'vehad, you know, a barbecue business
of some sort.
And one of the things thatI've gotten to do that was pretty
fun, that I didn't have timeto do before is occasionally, now
(16:22):
I'm a guest co host on theBaseball and Barbecue podcast.
So that's really.
Yeah, that's really fun to me.
And something that I'm workingon that I'm writing.
I've gotten to do a lot more writing.
I've gotten to interview a lotof people in the.
In the barbecue space and alot of hall of Famers.
(16:43):
And one of the people that Igot to talk to was Dave Raymond,
and he gave me some adviceabout sauce business and if I was
to rebrand, and I mean, like,I don't know what other community
would be so helpful in every,every single way possible.
Like, here's someone who builttheir sauce company into a behemoth
(17:04):
and then sold it and is justso gracious to help others.
I mean, you know, I can reallyappreciate that, and I hope one day
I'm in a position to helpothers as well.
Oh, absolutely.
Dave's been on this show.
He was a hoot to talk to, andthat was quite a journey he's had,
(17:26):
I'll put it that way.
Like that.
Are you a big baseball guy?
I love baseball, yeah.
I mean, I haven't had as muchtime to watch it as I used to, but,
yeah, I do love baseball.
So, Ray, we got a coupleminutes before we got to go to break.
You were talking about kind ofrebranding and getting back to your
roots.
What are you working on right now?
(17:47):
Another book or anything?
Well, I do have.
I'm working on a bookproposal, and I'm also working on
a big writing project whichwill probably discuss later this
year, but it's.
It has to do with barbecue sauce.
So I'm.
I'm doubling down on thebarbecue sauce, doubling down on
writing about barbecue in.
(18:07):
In every way.
Like, with the barbecue news,I'm trying to expand my.
Like, not just submitting arecipe, but also, you know, upping
my article, my content creation.
So, Yeah, I mean, 20, 24, Ihave a couple.
(18:28):
I have.
I'm going to be featured insome other people's cookbooks.
One is going to be a prettybig one, and the other one is a friend
of mine who's got a great bookcoming out on mushrooms.
It's called Mushroom Gastronomy.
That one is coming out thisspring and I have, you know, a little
(18:50):
feature in there.
So I'm.
I'm really just trying tofocus on me as a brand.
My website's going to be upprobably in the next month or so,
ration.com where you'll beable to get recipes and tips and
tricks and info, informationon events and classes and stuff like
(19:10):
that.
And there'll probably be someproducts at some point.
I just.
I'm not ready to jump in withboth feet just yet.
Definitely you'll be able toget my cookbooks on there.
And I've also gotten to spendsome time creating content for company
other companies and workingwith other companies like Forge to
(19:31):
Table Knives and Bear MountainBBQ and Magna Chef and some of these
other companies that I reallycan appreciate their products.
I know you guys from when Iwas listening to your show that you're
going to be working with somegreat companies as well.
Yeah, yeah, we are.
We're going to take another break.
(19:52):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, we're going to takeanother break.
So we're going to step awayfor a couple minutes.
Be back with chef Ray Sheehanright after this.
You're listening to Barbecue Nation.
(20:31):
Hey, everybody, it's JT And Ihave eaten.
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(20:55):
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Check it out.
This is an encore.
Welcome back to Barbecue Nation.
Thank you for being with us today.
We appreciate that very, very much.
It's the first show of 2024,and I know Leanne and I and Ray,
(21:17):
I hope you have a wonderful 2024.
I never thought when I was 30years old that I would ever say the
date 2024.
It just didn't ever occur to me.
Anyway, we would like to thankthe folks at Painted Hills Natural
Beef Beef the way you are,nature intended.
And you will like, you can goto their website@painted hills.com
(21:41):
and you can order online thereand come right to your door.
And also, drumroll, please.
Pig powder.
Pig powder was voted the bestrub on the planet.
Pig powder is, I won't say,the creation of Ms. Whippen.
It was the creation of herfather, but she is the general at
the helm now of pigpowder.comand by the.
(22:05):
Way, it did really help me winon the Flay vs. Simon show and Bobby
Flay.
I've been on two shows, athrowdown with him also, and in both
times, he commented on the PigCutter how much he loves it.
I was going to tell you afterthe show, I actually used it in some
(22:26):
other dishes over the holidaysjust to kind of mess around with
stuff, and it worked out very well.
But I. I don't want to take upthe time here in this show and tell
you that because it may besomething you can incorporate into
one of your recipes or something.
Anyway, we are talking withchef Ray Sheehan.
Ray's been on the show anumber of times over the years.
We always appreciate his timeand efforts to be with us.
(22:50):
So you were talking before wewent to break, Ray, about you might
bring out some products, somesauces or rubs or something like
that.
So I'm going to pose ahypothetical to you.
Do you think there are toomany at this point that people get
confused about them?
(23:11):
And.
Yeah, I mean, so that's kindof my hesitation.
So, I mean, I did it for along time, and I've won a lot of
awards for the sauces, but,you know, I feel like you really
have to have some money behindit and you have to be able to continuously
(23:31):
reinvest into it.
And from what Dave Raymondtells me, you have to buy shelf space,
which I never did.
Yeah, but you have to buyshelf space.
So, you know, I don't want tobe on a hamster wheel and just sell
enough to be able to buy morelike, you know, been there, done
that.
And, and, yeah, I mean,there's a lot of sauces, but there's
a lot of great sauces.
Oh, yeah, too.
(23:51):
I mean, and I feel as though Ireally had something good to offer
or great to offer the barbecuecommunity with my sauces.
It's really just a matter ofhow much or how deep I want to get
into it again.
Like, I've gotten help, twoother brands with their products,
and I really kind of like that.
Like, I like, you know, beingable to help a brand bring their
(24:13):
product to market.
And so I'd really like to geta licensing deal with my sources.
That would be great.
Like a big company that wantsa private label.
You know, these sauces, maybethe seasonings as well.
But that, that.
That's very appealing to me.
I can.
I Can give you a prime exampleof what you're talking about there,
(24:35):
Ray.
There's a lady that lives downin Philadelphia.
She's a.
She's a minister, and shefollows me on.
On Twitter and stuff.
She's a very nice lady.
I don't want to throw her nameout on there.
And she makes some great sauces.
One day in the.
The UPS guy brought me thesethree big jars, Mason jars of sauces.
(24:56):
And I tried them, and theywere wonderful.
But she doesn't really haveany money.
She doesn't have the licensingand the branding and all that.
And I know that she's hoping,like a lot of people, that Kraft
or McCormick or somebody comesby and says, that's great, we got
to have it.
(25:17):
Chances are that.
And I, I actually called heron the phone one day because she
asked me for help, and I said,you can, you know, you can hope for
that, but that's.
Chances of that are prettyslim, really.
But how.
How do you break through?
How do you break through ifyou're an individual like that?
(25:37):
I mean, Leanne's big power.
She's got her dad's name asthe inventor.
She's got her name on it.
She's got notoriety.
Her dad had notoriety.
But that's a.
That's a long road, too, you know.
Yeah.
I mean, how do you break through?
First of all, I have to ordersome pig powder.
(25:59):
I haven't tried it yet, sothere's that.
I will ship you, but Idefinitely have that.
God bless you.
But, but it's you, you know,it's a lot of work.
Even, like I said, DaveRaymond even told me is as popular
as Sweet Baby Rays was, as itwas a growing company.
He would do ride alongs and gowith the distributor and talk it
(26:22):
up to the stores and then do demos.
I mean, you really have towork it.
It has to be.
Other than now, other thanhaving your regular job and making
money, doing the sauce has tobe your number one priority or, or,
or seasoning.
It's.
It's a lot of dedication.
There's a lot of influencersto think, oh, you know, gee, I'm
going to have a rub or a sauce.
And.
(26:42):
And then they do it and itgoes nowhere because they don't realize
that, yes, you may be popularright now, but there's people that
maybe haven't seen you on thatshow, and you need to get it out
there.
You have to get people to try it.
And it is a lot.
A lot of work, a lot of moneyand a lot of time.
So it's the same thing as a restaurant.
(27:03):
Having a great recipe isreally step number one.
There's a lot of stepsinvolved, and you have to be willing
to put the time and the work in.
As they say, fame is leadingand not being disparaging to anybody.
But I think your point thereis well taken, that you may be an
(27:25):
influencer.
Good for you.
I hope you're doing well.
But are you still going to bethat person a year and a half from
now when you've got $10,000worth of product sitting in your
garage and it's not going anywhere?
You know, it's very difficult.
And I've done store demos.
I know Leanne has done store demos.
(27:45):
We still do them if the rightpeople ask us to do it.
And you get out there, andthat makes a huge difference.
But you got to cover a lot ofground, not only with a particular
individual store, but with achain or a geographic region to get
started.
It's a lot of hard work.
You know, I think that themistake that a lot of people that
(28:06):
I talk to that are trying tobuild us a brand, a sauce brand,
one of the things they say is,oh, well, I got my product in five
stores in my county orwhatever in my area, but I really
want to get the next state over.
I really want to get twostates over from there.
What you need to do is startand get a nucleus and build that
nucleus and build thatmomentum and get like, you know,
(28:29):
the first couple miles aroundyou and then build out from there.
You don't have to be in California.
You have to sell.
You have to be in 240 stores,let's say, in your area first.
Don't worry about getting,because shipping the product, that's
a whole nother issue.
Like getting it.
Like, I had glass bottles,they were heavy.
There's breakage, you know,and if you, if you sign with a distributor,
(28:50):
there's all kinds of rulesthat you have to go by.
If the customer drops abottle, you bought it.
If they return it for anyreason or no reason at all, you bought
it.
So focusing on, like, Ifocused on independence because they
could, the decision makers,you didn't have to pay for shelf
space.
They can decide whether theywant to bring you in.
It's easier to set up demos,but start with that nucleus and work
(29:10):
your way out versus worryingabout getting it in, you know, 10
states away where you have toship it.
I have some folks that I knowhere that created some barbecue sauces.
They were pretty goodmarketers but when they went to what
is now part of the Krogerworld up here, and the gentleman
(29:33):
was telling me this, he said,yeah, he said, you know, they're
taking, you know, four casesfor these 10 outlets and blah, blah,
blah.
And I said, how many cases dothey want for free?
You know, and, and he said,well, four.
So you're, you're talking only four.
You're talking eight.
Well, we're really talking eight.
(29:54):
Well, you know, when you goteight cases times 10, that's 80 cases.
Pretty soon those numbers addup to be, you know, huge is the best
way to put it.
Huge.
It's a tough gig if you make it.
I think, you know, anybodythat's made it has done a remarkable
job.
But selling that at the retaillevel, I think sometimes I think
(30:17):
if you've got a big enoughdeal, big enough claim to fame and
all of that, just doing theonline sales, or maybe even the Amazon
sales, you know, are much better.
I, I did a lot with, with myonline store and, and then I, you
know, I had some businessowners who, like, say builders or
(30:40):
car salesmen who had a lot ofclients that of, like, I had one
guy who had a roofingbusiness, and every time he did a
job, he would mark down, okay,they like barbecue.
I don't know how he askedthem, but at the end of the month,
every month, I would get likean order for like one dozen or two
dozen gift boxes.
And that paid the bills, thatkept the lights on, you know, like
(31:01):
over and over.
If you have a couple of peoplelike that, I mean, the more you can
sell yourself to sell theproduct yourself, the more money
you're going to make.
Retail is very difficult.
You know, it going with allthe rules, like you said, the paying
for shelf space, the returns,the, oh, we're opening another location.
We want, you know, two casesof each SKU that you have and say
if you have five SKUs, that's10 cases.
(31:22):
I mean, you know, yeah, itadds up.
Yeah, it's a tough gig.
My hat is off to people thatfinally make it and can get even
if it's regional distribution,if they really want to do that.
But I think, like, the wayLeanne does it and what you have
been talking about here, thatmay be the smarter way to go, because
(31:45):
all of a sudden you do nothave 10 layers of bureaucracy and
rules and regulations betweenyou and the, the deposit slip.
You might say, you know, andalso too, you're, you know, the,
the sauce manufacturers, youknow, they have minimums.
I had A bottler who started meat 50 cases, and by the time we were
(32:07):
done, there were 600 cases ofeach flavor.
Yeah.
And I'm like, I'm out.
I can't.
Where am I going to put it?
Who's going to finance it?
I mean, it's 600 cases.
You know, it's only good fortwo years.
You got to move it.
Yeah.
It's a lot of sauce.
It's a huge amount of work.
We're going to take a quickbreak here.
We're going to be back withchef ration and Ms. Whippen hall
(32:29):
of Famer, right after this onBarbecue Nation.
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Hey, everybody, it's jt.
You know, I talk about paintedhills all the time, and we always
say beef the way nature intended.
But it's more than thatbecause each bite of Painted hills
will make your taste buds explode.
Put a big, bright smile onyour face, and whoever's at your
dinner table will have a big,bright smile on their face.
And you can thank me for that later.
(33:17):
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more.
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Hey, everybody, J.T.
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Foreign.
This is an encore.
Welcome back to Barbecue Nation.
I'm jt.
We'd like to thank the OregonCrab Commission.
(33:59):
They're supporting this showand the golf show.
Excuse me.
In fact, Leanne got taste ofOregon Dungeness crab.
Amazing.
The first time this year, thislast year.
It's a new year.
I gotta do that.
It's great stuff.
And you can go to the OregonCrab Commission, their website, and
(34:20):
take a look at how it'sharvested and all that stuff.
But you can find it in mostmajor retailers all over the world,
actually.
So, anyway, we do that.
As I said, we're talking withchef Ray Sheen today.
Where do you think?
Go ahead, Leanne.
I was.
So do you have a new book?
(34:42):
You're doing a proposal.
So it hasn't been accepted yet.
You're just working on it, correct?
Yeah, I see.
I've.
So the first two books that Idid, I did Unagented, and it's my
desire to seek an agent now.
So in order to do that, I'mcontractually obligated to show my
publisher this proposal firstbecause they have right of first
(35:05):
refusal.
But I really want to try toget this agent that I have in mind.
So I want to really do a greatproposal, and then I can, you know,
so if it doesn't work out, togo with the current publisher, which
I hope it does, but if itdoesn't, then it can be shown to
various other publishers.
That's not an easy.
(35:25):
Yeah, that's not an easy gigeither, Ray.
Writing books.
Well, no, I mean, honestly,the way we did the first two, it
was easier to just.
The proposal process for thatwas so much easier than writing.
Like, this proposal has to beso much more thorough because it's
the business plan for thebook, so.
(35:46):
But I love to do it.
I honestly, like, I just getin a zone.
I love to write and I've.
It.
It's a process of revision.
So it's kind of like you'remolding, like, a piece of something
down into something moreconcise and, you know, understandable
and great for the reader.
Do you.
(36:08):
Do you find it sometimes it'shard to get inspired or just things
just pop into your head and.
No, things just pop into my head.
It's almost like there's toomuch, like.
Because you could sit there, right?
Like, I'm sure Leanne couldthink of 20 things she could write
a book about.
Right?
She could write, you know,ribs, tailgating, you know, women
(36:31):
in barbecue.
I mean, there's so many thingsthat you could do.
But then when you sit down,you have to say, okay, which one
of these things is relevant today?
And what do I think is goingto sell?
Because by the time you'redone, it's going to take almost two
years.
So in two years from now, whatis going to be something that people
are interested in, you know,and purchasing, and why do they need
(36:53):
it as a book as opposed to anews, newspaper or magazine article
or, you know, what makes it abook versus that?
So, you know, there's.
There's a lot that goes intothe thought process of, like, you
know, so it's just I.
There's just so.
(37:13):
So many things that I havethought of, but Then I'm like, okay,
well, that's not really a book.
You know, like, that's.
That's more like a.
A splash.
That's not a.
Well, there's a trend.
Leanne and I have talked aboutthis a little bit at times off the
air, but there's a trend thatyou can do shorter abridged versions,
(37:38):
if you will, and sell them asan ebook, for example, for Kindle.
I'm just giving you that.
Yeah.
And there.
And, you know, some of themcan sell for 99 cents, and you think,
well, that's not much money.
But if you sell, you know,15,000 of them, that 99 cents adds
up.
And it's very easy for peopleto, you know, if they're into the
(38:02):
Apple stuff or whatever, their.
Whatever platforms and stuffthey use is irrelevant.
You make it available on allthe platforms.
And I know Meathead has donethat a few times with, you know,
he wrote a little quick bookabout sous vide because he's a sous
vide savant, but he.
He did that, but it sells alot, you know, and then he moves
(38:24):
on to the next one.
But that original is stillthere and available for people as
time goes on.
So I don't.
I don't think we'll ever getaway from hardcover books, if you
will.
I'm still a guy that likes tohold a book in my hand and read it
and put it on the shelf whenI'm done.
But sometimes that if you.
(38:47):
I don't know.
I want to sound like adinosaur here, but the new age way
of doing things is a.
Actually affords a quickerreturn, I'll put it that way.
So I don't know if you everconsidered that, Ray, but.
Yeah, I've definitely thoughtabout it.
But I think ultimately rightnow, I'm like.
(39:09):
You like?
I prefer.
I like.
I love going to the bookstore.
My wife and I.
That'll be like a hot Friday night.
We'll go to the bookstore andgo to the cafe.
It's like, you know, get a newbook and, you know, a coffee.
I mean, I love coffee.
I'm into roasting coffee now, too.
Oh, it's one of my favorite things.
But maybe that's a book.
(39:29):
Yeah, maybe that's a way youtie it in.
You tie coffee with barbecueand Starbucks backs, the whole thing.
You never know.
You never know.
It could do that.
Where do you see yourself,hopefully four or five years from
now?
(39:50):
Four or five years from now?
Honestly, I would like somehowto be making a bigger contribution
to the world of barbecue.
I mean, that's something thatthe paper that I'm working on right
now, which we'll be able todiscuss probably around June, that's
going to be a big piece of it.
(40:11):
And.
And I, like, I. I want to be.
I want to be somebody who madea contribution to, not just, like,
to help other people, not justto, like, oh, what am I going to
get out of it?
You know, so, yeah, that, tome, that's.
That's where in.
In four or five years, whetherit's more books, this paper teaching,
(40:34):
more like getting, you know,I. I love the future of Q with.
That's put out by BarbecueNews Magazine.
I love the fact that it'sinspiring our next generation of
pit masters and grillers andkeeping it going.
And I'm not the type of personthat, like, if I learn something
great about brisket, I'm goingto keep it to myself.
(40:55):
I want to be able to share itwith others because I would like
there to be more greatbrisket, not just, you know, in certain
places, like in the south orin the West.
I mean, so to me, that, that.
That means more than anythingthat I would accomplish.
Just like, for me personally,you know, that would be rewarding.
(41:17):
Enjoy barbecue.
And I think right now we're ina very good place.
Yeah, I think so.
You know, what do you think, Leah?
Always.
We're always in a great place,and there's always new things, technology,
people, their twists, youknow, on barbecue.
That's going to be it for thetime of this part.
(41:38):
We're going to do after hoursin a second, but we want to thank
chef Ray Sheehan.
When's your website going tobe ready?
Should be ready by Valentine's Day.
Ration.com.
Okay, so that, that.
That's not too far away.
So we want to thank Ray, and Iwant to thank Leanne, as always.
And you can go to our website,barbecue nation, jt.com or leanne's
(42:02):
got a website.
And I've got another.
I got a couple other websites,so you can check them all out.
But we will be back next weekhere on Barbecue Nation with another
edition of the show.
Until then, remember our motto.
Turn it, don't burn it.
Take care, everybody.
Barbecue Nation is produced byJTSD LLC Productions in association
with Salem Media Group.
All rights reserved.
It's time for Barbecue Nationwith JT So fire up your grill, light
the charcoal, and get yoursmoker cooking.
Now from the Turn It, Go Burnit studios in Portland, here's jt.
This is an encore.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to Barbecue Nation.
I'm JT along with my co host,Barbecue hall of Fame member Leanne
Whippen.
And we're coming to you fromour respective Turn It, Don't Burn
(00:32):
it studios on opposite ends ofthe country.
One in Portland and one in Tampa.
We'd like to thank the folksat Painted Hills Natural Beef, the
way nature intended to be.
Find out more about PaintedHills, just go to paintedhillsbeef.com
well, we're very fortunate tohave our friend Chef Ray Sheehan
back with us as our firstguest of the year.
(00:53):
Yay.
Clap.
Ray's been busy.
Besides writing cookbooks and.
And doing his barbecue stuff.
He had a restaurant and now I.
We're going to find out if hesold it or not.
And he's been very busy always creating.
Ray, welcome to the show.
Well, what a great way tostart the new year.
(01:16):
Thank you for having me on theBarbecue Nation, one of my favorite
shows.
Thank you.
Well, you're welcome, and weappreciate that.
So what's going on in New Jersey?
Oh, man, it's just been, youknow, quite a roller coaster the
last year.
Looking for bigger and betterthings in 24.
I think the last time wespoke, my book came out Big Green
(01:39):
Egg Basics, and I'm here toreport that it was Barbecue Book
of the runner up Barbecue Bookof the Year for the National Barbecue
and Grilling association last year.
Thank you.
So I think Meet Mitch's bookwas in first place, so I was in great
(01:59):
company.
So a lot has happened since then.
Towards the end of 22, I asauce and seasoning company, and
I sold the trademark to the name.
And if in effect, I basicallyclosed that chapter or I was going
to rebrand and temporarilyclosed it.
And we opened a restaurantcalled Raised Roadside Kitchen.
(02:23):
It featured handcraftedburgers, Southern fried chicken,
and barbecue specialties.
And we became known for havingone of the top bowls of chili in
the state, some of the bestfried chicken.
But ultimately andunfortunately, the restaurant didn't
work out as much effort as weall put into it.
(02:44):
Had a few partners, and in theend, we ended up closing.
And then it.
It got to a point where, youknow, I had to do some soul searching,
hence the, you know, moniker.
Chef Ray Sheehan.
I went back to my roots.
I have 25 years experience inthe hospitality and restaurant and
(03:04):
food industry.
Yeah.
So, you know, creating recipesand, you know, getting back to my
writing, I write for the Barbecue.
Barbecue News magazine.
I do recipes, articles,product reviews from time to time
and, you know, and cookbooks.
So I've tried to get back tothat and, you know, doing my.
(03:26):
Basically, like, privateevents, private chef catering and
corporate catering.
And so it's.
It's been a challenge.
It's been a little bit of a challenge.
And as you both know, withrestaurants and sauce and seasoning
companies and all that, Imean, it's.
It's.
Right.
I mean, it's.
It can pose its challenges.
So, yeah, you're.
(03:48):
You're talking to the rightgroup of people here.
Ray, you also said thatkeyword partner.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, you know, a partner, apartnership is like a great.
Is like a marriage.
Right.
And it's great when it worksand when you're both on the same
page or however many of thepartners there are, are on the same
(04:10):
page.
But if any one of thepartners, respectively, is in a different
direction, it really posessome really, really big issues for
your business.
Sure.
Yes, it does.
Even if there's goodintentions, I mean.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I think there's always, forthe most part, good intentions.
(04:31):
But my experience, and I don'twant to go too far in the weeds on
this, and like, Leanne can certainly.
That's a whole nother show.
That's a month's worth of shows.
Yeah.
And I'm not just talking aboutyour experience, but.
All right.
Yeah.
You know, like you said, acouple of business things I've been
(04:52):
in over the years where therewere multiple.
Multiple partners that never worked.
That.
That just didn't work.
Because fictitious scenariohere, if you had three partners and
yourself, three of you, as yousaid, might be on the same page and
one wants to go to Botswana or something.
You know what I mean?
(05:12):
It just.
Yeah, it just doesn't work.
And so you try to reign themin, and then that undercurrent starts
to wear on the other partners.
And, you know, if.
If you're the managing partneror whatever, it can still erode the
enthusiasm and stuff, and it'svery, very difficult.
So I commend you for giving ita big, good old college, Princeton
(05:36):
try there.
The reason I say Princeton isbecause we watched Oppenheimer the
other night.
So I've been thinking aboutNew Jersey.
But the point is, isrestaurant business, food business
is tough.
It's very tough in its own right.
It's very tough.
Right.
And I was the managing partnerthe day to day and it just, there's
(05:59):
so many reasons why a businesswill succeed or fail and having great
food is really just the start.
There's so many other thingsthat need to be in place.
Well, I, I liked it.
What I read about it.
I've never, I never got to goto it, Ray, but of course, but what
(06:19):
I liked about it is you werea, and you kind of address this at
the opening of the show.
You were kind of a home stylerestaurant with a, with an accent
of barbecue, not a barbecuerestaurant with an accent of home
style.
And that last description, ifyou will.
And I'd like Leanne's take on this.
(06:41):
That's what a lot of barbecuerestaurants do.
A lot of pit stops and stuff.
They're like, hey, we've gotbarbecue, but we've also got grandma's
macaroni and cheese here.
And yet when I looked at yourmenus and stuff a few times, it was
always, we've got the friedchicken, but we've got a touch of,
you know, bourbon sauce or something.
(07:01):
So I, I, I really liked thatmotif, if you will.
Yeah, I mean, it was basicallysomewhat of a country style comfort
food really.
I mean, and on, you know,Saturdays we feature, well, Fridays
and Saturdays we had slowsmoked brisket, we had our pulled
(07:21):
pork on the menu.
Then we used the pulled porkto do slow smoked Cubano sandwich
and, and then, you know, likethe homey kind of comforting Mac
and cheese and, and then wewould do some, some nice special.
So we, we weren't a diner likea New Jersey diner, but we had a
little something for everybodyfor lunch and dinner type place.
(07:43):
Yeah.
Leanne, when you're, you'vedone this a lot.
I know when you put together amenu like that, I mean, we're all
very familiar with, with foodand restaurants and stuff here today.
But when you're looking atputting a menu together, how do you
decide the direction of the,the offerings on a menu?
(08:07):
I mean, because that really isthe tale of what the restaurant is
about.
Right.
People are looking for whatthey're in the mood for, you know,
Italian, Greek barbecue.
So you have to focus on whatthe name of the restaurant is and
what it represents.
You can certainly add thingsto the menu.
I mean, you know, vegetariancraze, you know, in order to get
(08:30):
a group that's going to comein that has vegetarians, you got
to put a couple veggie itemson there so that they will come because
that one person might, youmight lose that Group.
So you have to think aboutthings like that.
Specials are always a good Dr.
But you do have to focus on,you know, the specialty that you're
trying to or the cuisine thatyou're trying to convey.
Because if you get into thattoo much mishmash, you're going to
(08:53):
lose your identity and you'regoing to turn into a diner, you know,
and you.
And that's what happens.
You can't.
A lot of the diners here inJersey, the menus are so big and
I do love diners, but it's.
When you have a huge menu likethat, it's really hard to keep everything
fresh.
So try to keep it a little bitsmaller of a menu.
And like our burgers wereground fresh every day.
(09:16):
We didn't use a frozen patty.
You know, those types ofthings I feel like make a difference
if you're able to have abutcher do that for you every day.
Yeah, I mean, I would.
That's what we wanted to do.
So I got to ask you guys, whenI go sit down at a restaurant and
Leon's been in the little townI live in, and you can go to them
and they're, they're fine,they're there.
(09:36):
Some of them are diners, someof them are a little better.
Not much, but you go there andyou look at the thing and you look
at the menu and like you said,the menu is a little lofty, a little
bigger than, you know, whatyou were directed at and yours or
Leanne's.
But I look at that and I'mreading that and I go, okay, that
comes from Cisco, that comesfrom Food Services America.
(10:01):
You know, I look at.
That comes from cash and carry.
And I doubt if too many peoplesitting at the restaurant when my
wife and I are there arethinking in those terms, but that's
the way I look at menus anymore.
But when I go to a diner likeyours, Ray, and they say, you know,
we grind our, our burger everymorning, you know, or right, you
(10:23):
know, we, we go to the fishmarket every morning.
Something like that.
That gets my attention.
Well, it's just like I loveonion rings.
And the first thing I'll askis, do you make the onion rings in
house?
And they have to tell you.
And so obviously, if you wantCisco onion rings, they do not.
Yeah, they look at you and go,no, but we got a 50 pound bag back
(10:46):
there in the freezer for you.
You know, we can whip some up.
But you know, five guys, theyfocus on their fries being fresh
cut and made, you know, toorder, you know, those are the draws.
And.
Yeah.
You know, makes it more homecooked than it is out of a box.
Yeah.
And I do that.
And I, and I also look at that.
I don't eat too many of themor drink too many of them.
(11:08):
But if they offer milkshakes,for example, and it's summertime,
I want to know if it's not apowdered confectionery, if they're
actually putting a real icecream in there that doesn't come
out of a soft serve.
You know what I mean?
It's not formulated.
They put real strawberries in there.
They have to put something alittle sweeter sometimes in real
strawberries, for example.
I like strawberry milkshakes.
But when you look at that,that, that's a sale for me or from
(11:31):
me, you know, like that.
I look at that.
We're going to take a break.
We're going to be back withchef ration and Ms. Whippen here
on Barbecue Nation.
I hope you all had a greatholiday season and a good new year.
I made black bean soup for New Year's.
Anyway, we'll be right back.
Ready for a new ride.
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Gas electric or hybrid.
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(12:14):
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(12:40):
This is an encore.
Welcome back to the NationBarbecue Nation.
I'm JT along with Leanne Whippen.
Real quickly, if you want toemail us, you can just go to the
website which is barbecuenation, jt.com There's a contact
icon there.
You can do that.
You can also send it to info@becue nation jt.com you follow us
(13:02):
on Facebook.
Both Leanne and I and Ray alsowe have, you know, large Facebook
paces pages, got other platforms.
X formerly known as Twitterand Instagram.
Leanne's big on Instagram.
I know that.
And so just go out there,follow us, have some fun.
We're talking with chef RaySheehan today.
(13:25):
And Ray's been on the show before.
Before.
He's.
It's my first show back, soI'm getting a little tongue tied
here.
I haven't talked this much infive weeks.
I want to follow up with justone more thing on the restaurant.
Ray, what's the biggest thingyou learned out of that experience?
Now, you had plenty ofexperience going in with, you know,
being a chef, being a caterer,being in food service for a while.
(13:50):
We don't have to dateourselves this morning.
But what.
What's the biggest thing youthink you learned out of that?
On the food side.
Let's keep it positive on thefood side.
Absolutely.
I think on the.
On the food side.
You know, when I.
When I sat down with thepartners to come up with the concept
(14:12):
for the restaurant, theconcept became like, comfort food,
a take on, you know, with somebarbecue specialties.
And, you know, the burgerswere big and the fried chicken.
In this area, there wasn't alot of fried chicken.
And we.
We created.
I created this, like, thedredge that you would dip the chicken
(14:32):
into, and it was.
Had a real nice Southerncrispiness to it.
But I guess my biggesttakeaway would be stick with what
you're known for.
I am known in the barbecue space.
And everyone that walkedthrough the door wanted to know why
there wasn't more barbecue onthe menu.
And when it came clear to usthat we should pivot, not.
(14:54):
We.
We didn't pivot in the.
In the right way to.
To make that happen.
So I think sticking to yourguns, to what you.
What you know or what youbelieve in your heart will work.
That would probably be one ofmy biggest things going forward.
Was there anything on the menuthat you thought would be a hit that
was kind of halfway to whereyou expected it?
(15:18):
You know, you didn't.
So in.
Believe it or not, I. I mean,I don't know one particular thing,
but, like, we.
People would walk through the door.
This place had been abreakfast lunch place for so long.
People would walk through thedoor and order breakfast.
I mean, or they would orderstuff that wasn't on the menu, or
they would.
Wouldn't even look at the menu.
(15:38):
And that was just really frustrating.
Like, if someone just walks inyour door and it starts ordering,
but they don't even look atthe menu.
That was really hard.
That was.
Yeah, that was like, you know,that was challenging.
I know one thing that when Ido get to come to New Jersey and
see you in person, I want youto cook that part.
That fried chicken for Me,that stuff looked phenomenal.
(16:01):
Thank you very much.
You know, I've had to go backto my roots and in a way, reinvent
myself.
For the last 10 years, I'vehad, you know, a barbecue business
of some sort.
And one of the things thatI've gotten to do that was pretty
fun, that I didn't have timeto do before is occasionally, now
(16:22):
I'm a guest co host on theBaseball and Barbecue podcast.
So that's really.
Yeah, that's really fun to me.
And something that I'm workingon that I'm writing.
I've gotten to do a lot more writing.
I've gotten to interview a lotof people in the.
In the barbecue space and alot of hall of Famers.
(16:43):
And one of the people that Igot to talk to was Dave Raymond,
and he gave me some adviceabout sauce business and if I was
to rebrand, and I mean, like,I don't know what other community
would be so helpful in every,every single way possible.
Like, here's someone who builttheir sauce company into a behemoth
(17:04):
and then sold it and is justso gracious to help others.
I mean, you know, I can reallyappreciate that, and I hope one day
I'm in a position to helpothers as well.
Oh, absolutely.
Dave's been on this show.
He was a hoot to talk to, andthat was quite a journey he's had,
(17:26):
I'll put it that way.
Like that.
Are you a big baseball guy?
I love baseball, yeah.
I mean, I haven't had as muchtime to watch it as I used to, but,
yeah, I do love baseball.
So, Ray, we got a coupleminutes before we got to go to break.
You were talking about kind ofrebranding and getting back to your
roots.
What are you working on right now?
(17:47):
Another book or anything?
Well, I do have.
I'm working on a bookproposal, and I'm also working on
a big writing project whichwill probably discuss later this
year, but it's.
It has to do with barbecue sauce.
So I'm.
I'm doubling down on thebarbecue sauce, doubling down on
writing about barbecue in.
(18:07):
In every way.
Like, with the barbecue news,I'm trying to expand my.
Like, not just submitting arecipe, but also, you know, upping
my article, my content creation.
So, Yeah, I mean, 20, 24, Ihave a couple.
(18:28):
I have.
I'm going to be featured insome other people's cookbooks.
One is going to be a prettybig one, and the other one is a friend
of mine who's got a great bookcoming out on mushrooms.
It's called Mushroom Gastronomy.
That one is coming out thisspring and I have, you know, a little
(18:50):
feature in there.
So I'm.
I'm really just trying tofocus on me as a brand.
My website's going to be upprobably in the next month or so,
ration.com where you'll beable to get recipes and tips and
tricks and info, informationon events and classes and stuff like
(19:10):
that.
And there'll probably be someproducts at some point.
I just.
I'm not ready to jump in withboth feet just yet.
Definitely you'll be able toget my cookbooks on there.
And I've also gotten to spendsome time creating content for company
other companies and workingwith other companies like Forge to
(19:31):
Table Knives and Bear MountainBBQ and Magna Chef and some of these
other companies that I reallycan appreciate their products.
I know you guys from when Iwas listening to your show that you're
going to be working with somegreat companies as well.
Yeah, yeah, we are.
We're going to take another break.
(19:52):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, we're going to takeanother break.
So we're going to step awayfor a couple minutes.
Be back with chef Ray Sheehanright after this.
You're listening to Barbecue Nation.
(20:31):
Hey, everybody, it's JT And Ihave eaten.
If you've ever looked at me,you know that.
But I have eaten seafood allover the world, and I can tell you
there's no place better thanhere in Oregon and our Dungeness
crab.
If you want to learn moreabout Oregon Dungeness crab, just
go to oregondungeness.org.
And find out how to cook it,how to catch it, where to buy.
It, and the sustainability ofwhat they're doing there in the Oregon
(20:55):
Crab Commission.
Check it out.
This is an encore.
Welcome back to Barbecue Nation.
Thank you for being with us today.
We appreciate that very, very much.
It's the first show of 2024,and I know Leanne and I and Ray,
(21:17):
I hope you have a wonderful 2024.
I never thought when I was 30years old that I would ever say the
date 2024.
It just didn't ever occur to me.
Anyway, we would like to thankthe folks at Painted Hills Natural
Beef Beef the way you are,nature intended.
And you will like, you can goto their website@painted hills.com
(21:41):
and you can order online thereand come right to your door.
And also, drumroll, please.
Pig powder.
Pig powder was voted the bestrub on the planet.
Pig powder is, I won't say,the creation of Ms. Whippen.
It was the creation of herfather, but she is the general at
the helm now of pigpowder.comand by the.
(22:05):
Way, it did really help me winon the Flay vs. Simon show and Bobby
Flay.
I've been on two shows, athrowdown with him also, and in both
times, he commented on the PigCutter how much he loves it.
I was going to tell you afterthe show, I actually used it in some
(22:26):
other dishes over the holidaysjust to kind of mess around with
stuff, and it worked out very well.
But I. I don't want to take upthe time here in this show and tell
you that because it may besomething you can incorporate into
one of your recipes or something.
Anyway, we are talking withchef Ray Sheehan.
Ray's been on the show anumber of times over the years.
We always appreciate his timeand efforts to be with us.
(22:50):
So you were talking before wewent to break, Ray, about you might
bring out some products, somesauces or rubs or something like
that.
So I'm going to pose ahypothetical to you.
Do you think there are toomany at this point that people get
confused about them?
(23:11):
And.
Yeah, I mean, so that's kindof my hesitation.
So, I mean, I did it for along time, and I've won a lot of
awards for the sauces, but,you know, I feel like you really
have to have some money behindit and you have to be able to continuously
(23:31):
reinvest into it.
And from what Dave Raymondtells me, you have to buy shelf space,
which I never did.
Yeah, but you have to buyshelf space.
So, you know, I don't want tobe on a hamster wheel and just sell
enough to be able to buy morelike, you know, been there, done
that.
And, and, yeah, I mean,there's a lot of sauces, but there's
a lot of great sauces.
Oh, yeah, too.
(23:51):
I mean, and I feel as though Ireally had something good to offer
or great to offer the barbecuecommunity with my sauces.
It's really just a matter ofhow much or how deep I want to get
into it again.
Like, I've gotten help, twoother brands with their products,
and I really kind of like that.
Like, I like, you know, beingable to help a brand bring their
(24:13):
product to market.
And so I'd really like to geta licensing deal with my sources.
That would be great.
Like a big company that wantsa private label.
You know, these sauces, maybethe seasonings as well.
But that, that.
That's very appealing to me.
I can.
I Can give you a prime exampleof what you're talking about there,
(24:35):
Ray.
There's a lady that lives downin Philadelphia.
She's a.
She's a minister, and shefollows me on.
On Twitter and stuff.
She's a very nice lady.
I don't want to throw her nameout on there.
And she makes some great sauces.
One day in the.
The UPS guy brought me thesethree big jars, Mason jars of sauces.
(24:56):
And I tried them, and theywere wonderful.
But she doesn't really haveany money.
She doesn't have the licensingand the branding and all that.
And I know that she's hoping,like a lot of people, that Kraft
or McCormick or somebody comesby and says, that's great, we got
to have it.
(25:17):
Chances are that.
And I, I actually called heron the phone one day because she
asked me for help, and I said,you can, you know, you can hope for
that, but that's.
Chances of that are prettyslim, really.
But how.
How do you break through?
How do you break through ifyou're an individual like that?
(25:37):
I mean, Leanne's big power.
She's got her dad's name asthe inventor.
She's got her name on it.
She's got notoriety.
Her dad had notoriety.
But that's a.
That's a long road, too, you know.
Yeah.
I mean, how do you break through?
First of all, I have to ordersome pig powder.
(25:59):
I haven't tried it yet, sothere's that.
I will ship you, but Idefinitely have that.
God bless you.
But, but it's you, you know,it's a lot of work.
Even, like I said, DaveRaymond even told me is as popular
as Sweet Baby Rays was, as itwas a growing company.
He would do ride alongs and gowith the distributor and talk it
(26:22):
up to the stores and then do demos.
I mean, you really have towork it.
It has to be.
Other than now, other thanhaving your regular job and making
money, doing the sauce has tobe your number one priority or, or,
or seasoning.
It's.
It's a lot of dedication.
There's a lot of influencersto think, oh, you know, gee, I'm
going to have a rub or a sauce.
And.
(26:42):
And then they do it and itgoes nowhere because they don't realize
that, yes, you may be popularright now, but there's people that
maybe haven't seen you on thatshow, and you need to get it out
there.
You have to get people to try it.
And it is a lot.
A lot of work, a lot of moneyand a lot of time.
So it's the same thing as a restaurant.
(27:03):
Having a great recipe isreally step number one.
There's a lot of stepsinvolved, and you have to be willing
to put the time and the work in.
As they say, fame is leadingand not being disparaging to anybody.
But I think your point thereis well taken, that you may be an
(27:25):
influencer.
Good for you.
I hope you're doing well.
But are you still going to bethat person a year and a half from
now when you've got $10,000worth of product sitting in your
garage and it's not going anywhere?
You know, it's very difficult.
And I've done store demos.
I know Leanne has done store demos.
(27:45):
We still do them if the rightpeople ask us to do it.
And you get out there, andthat makes a huge difference.
But you got to cover a lot ofground, not only with a particular
individual store, but with achain or a geographic region to get
started.
It's a lot of hard work.
You know, I think that themistake that a lot of people that
(28:06):
I talk to that are trying tobuild us a brand, a sauce brand,
one of the things they say is,oh, well, I got my product in five
stores in my county orwhatever in my area, but I really
want to get the next state over.
I really want to get twostates over from there.
What you need to do is startand get a nucleus and build that
nucleus and build thatmomentum and get like, you know,
(28:29):
the first couple miles aroundyou and then build out from there.
You don't have to be in California.
You have to sell.
You have to be in 240 stores,let's say, in your area first.
Don't worry about getting,because shipping the product, that's
a whole nother issue.
Like getting it.
Like, I had glass bottles,they were heavy.
There's breakage, you know,and if you, if you sign with a distributor,
(28:50):
there's all kinds of rulesthat you have to go by.
If the customer drops abottle, you bought it.
If they return it for anyreason or no reason at all, you bought
it.
So focusing on, like, Ifocused on independence because they
could, the decision makers,you didn't have to pay for shelf
space.
They can decide whether theywant to bring you in.
It's easier to set up demos,but start with that nucleus and work
(29:10):
your way out versus worryingabout getting it in, you know, 10
states away where you have toship it.
I have some folks that I knowhere that created some barbecue sauces.
They were pretty goodmarketers but when they went to what
is now part of the Krogerworld up here, and the gentleman
(29:33):
was telling me this, he said,yeah, he said, you know, they're
taking, you know, four casesfor these 10 outlets and blah, blah,
blah.
And I said, how many cases dothey want for free?
You know, and, and he said,well, four.
So you're, you're talking only four.
You're talking eight.
Well, we're really talking eight.
(29:54):
Well, you know, when you goteight cases times 10, that's 80 cases.
Pretty soon those numbers addup to be, you know, huge is the best
way to put it.
Huge.
It's a tough gig if you make it.
I think, you know, anybodythat's made it has done a remarkable
job.
But selling that at the retaillevel, I think sometimes I think
(30:17):
if you've got a big enoughdeal, big enough claim to fame and
all of that, just doing theonline sales, or maybe even the Amazon
sales, you know, are much better.
I, I did a lot with, with myonline store and, and then I, you
know, I had some businessowners who, like, say builders or
(30:40):
car salesmen who had a lot ofclients that of, like, I had one
guy who had a roofingbusiness, and every time he did a
job, he would mark down, okay,they like barbecue.
I don't know how he askedthem, but at the end of the month,
every month, I would get likean order for like one dozen or two
dozen gift boxes.
And that paid the bills, thatkept the lights on, you know, like
(31:01):
over and over.
If you have a couple of peoplelike that, I mean, the more you can
sell yourself to sell theproduct yourself, the more money
you're going to make.
Retail is very difficult.
You know, it going with allthe rules, like you said, the paying
for shelf space, the returns,the, oh, we're opening another location.
We want, you know, two casesof each SKU that you have and say
if you have five SKUs, that's10 cases.
(31:22):
I mean, you know, yeah, itadds up.
Yeah, it's a tough gig.
My hat is off to people thatfinally make it and can get even
if it's regional distribution,if they really want to do that.
But I think, like, the wayLeanne does it and what you have
been talking about here, thatmay be the smarter way to go, because
(31:45):
all of a sudden you do nothave 10 layers of bureaucracy and
rules and regulations betweenyou and the, the deposit slip.
You might say, you know, andalso too, you're, you know, the,
the sauce manufacturers, youknow, they have minimums.
I had A bottler who started meat 50 cases, and by the time we were
(32:07):
done, there were 600 cases ofeach flavor.
Yeah.
And I'm like, I'm out.
I can't.
Where am I going to put it?
Who's going to finance it?
I mean, it's 600 cases.
You know, it's only good fortwo years.
You got to move it.
Yeah.
It's a lot of sauce.
It's a huge amount of work.
We're going to take a quickbreak here.
We're going to be back withchef ration and Ms. Whippen hall
(32:29):
of Famer, right after this onBarbecue Nation.
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(32:56):
Hey, everybody, it's jt.
You know, I talk about paintedhills all the time, and we always
say beef the way nature intended.
But it's more than thatbecause each bite of Painted hills
will make your taste buds explode.
Put a big, bright smile onyour face, and whoever's at your
dinner table will have a big,bright smile on their face.
And you can thank me for that later.
(33:17):
Just go topaintedhillsbeef.com and find out
more.
You won't regret it.
Hey, everybody, J.T.
Here.
I want to tell you aboutHammerstahl knives.
Hammerstahl combines Germansteel with beautiful and functioning
designs.
They're part of the HeritageSteel Group, which also does their
pots and pans.
So go to heritagesteel us.
(33:37):
Check out the Hammer Stahl knives.
If you're really into cooking.
I think you're really gonnalike them.
Foreign.
This is an encore.
Welcome back to Barbecue Nation.
I'm jt.
We'd like to thank the OregonCrab Commission.
(33:59):
They're supporting this showand the golf show.
Excuse me.
In fact, Leanne got taste ofOregon Dungeness crab.
Amazing.
The first time this year, thislast year.
It's a new year.
I gotta do that.
It's great stuff.
And you can go to the OregonCrab Commission, their website, and
(34:20):
take a look at how it'sharvested and all that stuff.
But you can find it in mostmajor retailers all over the world,
actually.
So, anyway, we do that.
As I said, we're talking withchef Ray Sheen today.
Where do you think?
Go ahead, Leanne.
I was.
So do you have a new book?
(34:42):
You're doing a proposal.
So it hasn't been accepted yet.
You're just working on it, correct?
Yeah, I see.
I've.
So the first two books that Idid, I did Unagented, and it's my
desire to seek an agent now.
So in order to do that, I'mcontractually obligated to show my
publisher this proposal firstbecause they have right of first
(35:05):
refusal.
But I really want to try toget this agent that I have in mind.
So I want to really do a greatproposal, and then I can, you know,
so if it doesn't work out, togo with the current publisher, which
I hope it does, but if itdoesn't, then it can be shown to
various other publishers.
That's not an easy.
(35:25):
Yeah, that's not an easy gigeither, Ray.
Writing books.
Well, no, I mean, honestly,the way we did the first two, it
was easier to just.
The proposal process for thatwas so much easier than writing.
Like, this proposal has to beso much more thorough because it's
the business plan for thebook, so.
(35:46):
But I love to do it.
I honestly, like, I just getin a zone.
I love to write and I've.
It.
It's a process of revision.
So it's kind of like you'remolding, like, a piece of something
down into something moreconcise and, you know, understandable
and great for the reader.
Do you.
(36:08):
Do you find it sometimes it'shard to get inspired or just things
just pop into your head and.
No, things just pop into my head.
It's almost like there's toomuch, like.
Because you could sit there, right?
Like, I'm sure Leanne couldthink of 20 things she could write
a book about.
Right?
She could write, you know,ribs, tailgating, you know, women
(36:31):
in barbecue.
I mean, there's so many thingsthat you could do.
But then when you sit down,you have to say, okay, which one
of these things is relevant today?
And what do I think is goingto sell?
Because by the time you'redone, it's going to take almost two
years.
So in two years from now, whatis going to be something that people
are interested in, you know,and purchasing, and why do they need
(36:53):
it as a book as opposed to anews, newspaper or magazine article
or, you know, what makes it abook versus that?
So, you know, there's.
There's a lot that goes intothe thought process of, like, you
know, so it's just I.
There's just so.
(37:13):
So many things that I havethought of, but Then I'm like, okay,
well, that's not really a book.
You know, like, that's.
That's more like a.
A splash.
That's not a.
Well, there's a trend.
Leanne and I have talked aboutthis a little bit at times off the
air, but there's a trend thatyou can do shorter abridged versions,
(37:38):
if you will, and sell them asan ebook, for example, for Kindle.
I'm just giving you that.
Yeah.
And there.
And, you know, some of themcan sell for 99 cents, and you think,
well, that's not much money.
But if you sell, you know,15,000 of them, that 99 cents adds
up.
And it's very easy for peopleto, you know, if they're into the
(38:02):
Apple stuff or whatever, their.
Whatever platforms and stuffthey use is irrelevant.
You make it available on allthe platforms.
And I know Meathead has donethat a few times with, you know,
he wrote a little quick bookabout sous vide because he's a sous
vide savant, but he.
He did that, but it sells alot, you know, and then he moves
(38:24):
on to the next one.
But that original is stillthere and available for people as
time goes on.
So I don't.
I don't think we'll ever getaway from hardcover books, if you
will.
I'm still a guy that likes tohold a book in my hand and read it
and put it on the shelf whenI'm done.
But sometimes that if you.
(38:47):
I don't know.
I want to sound like adinosaur here, but the new age way
of doing things is a.
Actually affords a quickerreturn, I'll put it that way.
So I don't know if you everconsidered that, Ray, but.
Yeah, I've definitely thoughtabout it.
But I think ultimately rightnow, I'm like.
(39:09):
You like?
I prefer.
I like.
I love going to the bookstore.
My wife and I.
That'll be like a hot Friday night.
We'll go to the bookstore andgo to the cafe.
It's like, you know, get a newbook and, you know, a coffee.
I mean, I love coffee.
I'm into roasting coffee now, too.
Oh, it's one of my favorite things.
But maybe that's a book.
(39:29):
Yeah, maybe that's a way youtie it in.
You tie coffee with barbecueand Starbucks backs, the whole thing.
You never know.
You never know.
It could do that.
Where do you see yourself,hopefully four or five years from
now?
(39:50):
Four or five years from now?
Honestly, I would like somehowto be making a bigger contribution
to the world of barbecue.
I mean, that's something thatthe paper that I'm working on right
now, which we'll be able todiscuss probably around June, that's
going to be a big piece of it.
(40:11):
And.
And I, like, I. I want to be.
I want to be somebody who madea contribution to, not just, like,
to help other people, not justto, like, oh, what am I going to
get out of it?
You know, so, yeah, that, tome, that's.
That's where in.
In four or five years, whetherit's more books, this paper teaching,
(40:34):
more like getting, you know,I. I love the future of Q with.
That's put out by BarbecueNews Magazine.
I love the fact that it'sinspiring our next generation of
pit masters and grillers andkeeping it going.
And I'm not the type of personthat, like, if I learn something
great about brisket, I'm goingto keep it to myself.
(40:55):
I want to be able to share itwith others because I would like
there to be more greatbrisket, not just, you know, in certain
places, like in the south orin the West.
I mean, so to me, that, that.
That means more than anythingthat I would accomplish.
Just like, for me personally,you know, that would be rewarding.
(41:17):
Enjoy barbecue.
And I think right now we're ina very good place.
Yeah, I think so.
You know, what do you think, Leah?
Always.
We're always in a great place,and there's always new things, technology,
people, their twists, youknow, on barbecue.
That's going to be it for thetime of this part.
(41:38):
We're going to do after hoursin a second, but we want to thank
chef Ray Sheehan.
When's your website going tobe ready?
Should be ready by Valentine's Day.
Ration.com.
Okay, so that, that.
That's not too far away.
So we want to thank Ray, and Iwant to thank Leanne, as always.
And you can go to our website,barbecue nation, jt.com or leanne's
(42:02):
got a website.
And I've got another.
I got a couple other websites,so you can check them all out.
But we will be back next weekhere on Barbecue Nation with another
edition of the show.
Until then, remember our motto.
Turn it, don't burn it.
Take care, everybody.
Barbecue Nation is produced byJTSD LLC Productions in association
with Salem Media Group.
All rights reserved.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
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