September 30, 2025 • 48 mins
A simple sentence could transform your recovery journey: "I feel ___ about ___ because ___." In this conversation with Sue Moore of Forgiven Much Ministries, we dive deep into an advanced technique for processing emotions that can break cycles of unwanted behavior.
Whether you're struggling with unwanted sexual behavior, processing betrayal trauma, or simply wanting deeper emotional awareness, this conversation offers practical tools for becoming whole. For parents and caregivers, these techniques represent an opportunity to equip the next generation with emotional resilience skills that could prevent future addiction struggles.
Ready to transform how you process pain and emotion? Download the reflective listening resources mentioned and begin your journey toward authentic healing today.
Resources:
FMM Reflective Listening Workshop
Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend
FMM Gospel Centered Sexuality Course kicking off this fall
An Invitation for our annual women's retreat.
Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole:
- Email us questions! info@regenerationministries.org
👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Becoming Whole podcast.
I'm James Craig, director ofProjects here at Regeneration,
and Spiritual Coach, and I'mjoined once again by Sue Moore
of Forgiven Much Ministries.
Welcome back, sue.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey, glad to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Sue shared this wonderful quote with me that I'm
going to start us out byreading.
A relapse occurs when slips arerepeated without learning from
them.
When slips are repeated withoutlearning from them, there are
two primary reasons for aperson's relapse the inability
to develop intimaterelationships and the inability
to manage pain in recovery.
(00:34):
This is a quote from AlanMarlott and Sue, as we're
talking for our second week in arow about processing our
emotions.
Well, last week, we wentthrough your basic reflective
listening tool, which teaches ushow to reflect on our own
emotions.
If you haven't listened to thatepisode, please go back and
check that one out.
It's a great foundation forwhat we're getting into today,
(00:58):
which is the more advancedtechnique of reflecting on your
emotions that you've developed.
And so this quote really sticksout to me, sue, because it's
highlighting both the relationalimportance of healing.
I've heard it said in a TEDTalk Maybe we'll be able to put
this in the show notes but theopposite of addiction is not
sobriety, the opposite ofaddiction is community.
(01:19):
So that first part of what he'ssaying of developing intimate
relationships really resonatesas I hear it.
But the second part, equallyimportant inability to manage
pain and recovery, and so muchof what recovery is about is
processing through pain and nolonger taking pain to illicit
places.
And so, sue, let's dive rightin.
(01:41):
How do you take people forwardonce they've got a little bit of
the basic understanding of howto process emotions, how to, how
to get in touch with painfulfeelings right?
Where do you take them fromthere in your workshops?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
the individual, whether it's workshops or or
just in, you know, coaching orjust the recovery plan itself
and we alluded to this a littlebit previously is we got to have
an understanding of where arewe going?
There has to be some reason forme to jump off of this path
that I've been on forever.
(02:17):
There has to be a belief or ahope that there's something
better and different.
Now, I may not have.
These could be unbelieversyou're talking to this, could be
people, somebody who's so brandnew in Jesus that they don't
know much about scripture, butthey want to believe that what I
have experienced is not allthat.
There is that there's somethingelse, and so that would be
(02:39):
point.
One is that, um, because a lotof people, some sometimes
individuals we don't understandthat jesus is for real about
offering us all of these things.
All of these things are yours.
The thing is that you're gonnahave to let go of those other
things and we become we kind ofstraddle, the the hanging on to
(03:03):
both of them because we'retrying to discern which one is
going to be the most helpful andbeneficial and then, when it
comes down to the moment of painit's going to be, do I really
want to become all that God'scalling me to be.
So there's that part that'sstarting us off, that God's
(03:26):
calling me to be.
So there's that part that'sstarting us off.
And that also touches onsomething I mentioned to you,
whether we were praying in lasttime or talking about it but is
the advanced version of thereflective listening.
In my view, is all aboutspiritual stewardship.
It is me learning my buy-in tobecoming all that God has called
(03:49):
me to be.
I may not completely understandthat when I begin, I may be a
little bit wavering about it,but I'm beginning and God will
take all of that, and so that'sthat.
This exercises for that person.
That goes I don't have a wholelot of Christian ease in my back
(04:10):
pocket, and what I do have Idon't want because it it didn't,
it didn't have any real,authentic, genuine relationship
in it, and so I'm not sure I'manswering your question or going
around the bush.
Sure I'm answering yourquestion or going around the
bush, but this advanced versionis intent on bringing to the
surface the unbelief, the lies,the taunting, the
(04:34):
interpretations that we've hadfrom our experiences, and then
also bringing the scripture ofwhat God says about you and
about that thing and us takingan honest look at the difference
between the two.
This is what God says.
This is what I'm saying.
In order for me to change andbecome new and walk in my new
(04:57):
man, I'm going to have to takeGod at his word.
Well, I'd have to know what hisword is, and so this is what
the exercise does.
I have to know what his word is, and so this is what the
exercise does.
It helps, it drives them to theword to find out what God's
word says, and sometimes theymay not have the sight and verse
of where that is, but they havethis understanding where I hear
that he's good and I understandthat he's merciful.
And we'll start there.
(05:19):
Individual is learning to takeGod at his word.
As they process this painfulexperience of, I can't maintain
my sobriety.
I don't know why I keep goingback.
I don't want to and startingthere in a processing and kind
(05:45):
of touching on Marlott's quote.
But the ability to developintimate relationships means
that you used a reference in thelast segment that you'd
procrastinated on a paper.
And you just identified the factthat you had been
procrastinating on a paperbecause and that I had mentioned
(06:07):
to you that that's the nugget,that is a beginning.
You have a sentence.
I feel blank about blank,because that is the beginning,
because in that you can becomeknown.
God knows, you knows that it'sin you, but now you acknowledge
it back to the father.
That's yada, knowing andbecoming known.
So now you have this yada withthe father and now it is on us
(06:27):
to become known and yada withsomebody else and you share that
with somebody else and thisbegins the pattern of developing
resilience.
And that's when you can beknown and seen and in a safe
place and then have ourdistorted thinking challenged.
That all happens inrelationship and I may have
(06:49):
taken this way off guard.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I apologize, that's awesome.
Well, first of all, you werespeaking a little hebrew there,
so for those who don't know theterm when, when you see the word
no in hebrew, that's the hebrewword yada.
So adam knew his wife Eve andthey conceived a child.
It can refer to sexual intimacyin that regard, but it's an
(07:11):
icon.
Yadah is like an icon for theintimacy that God wants with us,
the knowing and being knownrelationship.
And so, sue, part of what I hearyou saying is look, part of the
Christian journey is knowingwhat is true about us, but also
recognizing there's a gapbetween what I hear or
theologically know is true andwhat I really believe or operate
(07:33):
under.
And so it sounds like thisadvanced reflective listening
exercise is trying to help closethat gap.
It's trying to say, hey, theremight be a wound here or an
emotion you don't really knowhow to navigate or something
else that's kind of in the way.
So let's work on that so thatwe can close the gap and you
could be more in that shalomthat's another Hebrew word for
(07:55):
it.
You know that peace with God,that sense of I'm comfortable
with who God is and his love forme.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, the congruence there.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
The congruence, the congruence.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, my belief system, and that doesn't happen
overnight.
Now we can intellectually,intellectually be aware of
something.
I can be intellectually awareof a false belief system that I
have and that God does not wantme walking in that.
But the fact that I'm aware ofit, he does not make me
automatically able to walk anydifferent.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I have the first step .
It's like you got to have someawareness typically, but then
it's not.
It's not.
You could, you could changeyour awareness overnight, but
you usually don't change yourheart attitude overnight that
gets tested with plenty ofopportunities, experience by
experience and there's lots ofdo-overs.
(08:46):
Such, again, a hopeful word.
You've lived it.
And so, sue, what are some ofthe?
Yeah, can you give us a littlebit of an intro to this?
Again, we will not have time tounpack the fullness of this
tool that you've created.
But how do we start?
Like we, we, we left off lastepisode with this helpful
sentence, right, I feel blankabout blank, because blank.
(09:09):
And then you also introduce,like who, who am I trying to
become?
Or what do I do going from this, how do we go from that basic
understanding of I'm feelingthis, et cetera, to this
advanced connection?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
with.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
God.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
If I can, can I um?
I'm going to share my screen.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, please do.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So I'm going to drive a little bit here.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And, first of all, good opportunity to remind
people that we're posting theseon YouTube, the video version.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So yeah, I've started off with the landing page for
the reflective listeningworksheet because not only for
the workshop registration buttonthat they can click there and
the downloadable links for thedocuments that they can use, but
these, these documents.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
By the way, they're gold and I love I was mentioning
last week I love to useespecially I think we'll get
into it today, but the sevendesires of every heart doc I see
on there is so, so helpful.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah yeah, all of them are priceless to take us to
where we're going, but I wantedto highlight um.
Here's some short videos.
We met intro and basic exercise.
You build on this foundationtalks about emotions, concept of
anxiety, feeling, awareness,all of that stuff.
And then this part, I think, isgold and this is God's
relational design.
This is the, the Yada, theneural relational design of God
(10:25):
and what disturbs our rest.
For your listeners and forpeople who are wanting to go
further into this, those arejust.
You need them.
And also for those resistant,the making a case for emotional
resilience, I'm prepared forbear, I'm prepared for people
going no, I don't want to dothis.
And I'm going to give youneuroscience, five points of
neuroscience as to why science,neuroscience and all as to why
(10:47):
to do this.
I do want to go to.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And, by the way, if you're just listening, sue is
giving us an overview of thereflective listening page, as
she said, which is in the shownotes, so please check that out
afterward if you're not able towatch.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So've.
I've placed the advanced versionworksheet up on the screen to
share, and we'll talk thatthrough, and again those in the
show notes, and clicking on allthose downloads you can have it
the reason being is I wanted to,um, describe what's going on
here with this imagery, um, lastweek, well, we see the sentence
that I feel blank about blank,because at the very top then you
(11:25):
see this graphic imagerythere's a, there's a person,
that's you and I, and then wehave the red heart, that's the
fullness heart, and then you'vegot these blue words Pause,
discern God's best interest andprotect.
We spoke.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
What was the GBI?
Again, god's best.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
God's best interest, yeah, and those are described in
the instructions as well.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
This pause we talked about last week.
We have to pause.
If I'm, I have to slow it downlong enough to consider what's
going on, and so this worksheetis.
It's the meat and potatoes itactually needs to be.
All of these documents that I'mrecommending that an individual
participate in need to be byyour devotional table where you
have your quiet time with theLord in your journal.
Because the Holy Spirit, themore you use them and they
(12:11):
become second nature, the HolySpirit is going to give you
elbows in the side aboutsomething about this worksheet
or something about that sevendesires of the heart, or the
boundaries that speaks to yoursituation, and you're going to
want to have those close by forreview and we'll show them in a
moment.
But my point of bringing up thisimagery here, james, is that
(12:32):
these 11 synonyms that arecircling you and I are the 11
synonyms for boundaries.
They are our responsibilities,and remember that we talked
about last week that thisexercise is established on
Proverbs 4.23, above all else,highest priority of everything,
guard your heart, your mind,your will and emotions, for out
(12:55):
of it flow the issues of life InCloud and Townsend's work on
boundaries.
Those 11 synonyms that we havesurrounding the heart, right
there surrounding us, aresynonyms for the word heart and
they are our responsibility.
That is what we are.
We are guarding our heart.
We are guarding our life, ourpurpose in God, our person, our
(13:18):
position and our purpose in Godwhen we are accountable.
This is that spiritualstewardship I was talking about.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
These are those things that we are actually
responsible for.
And, by the way, again we'lllink to boundaries the book in
the show notes.
This is probably the book I useunwanted a lot with clients.
But second to unwanted, I oftenhave clients go through
boundaries because it isincredibly helpful.
Sue, I've had to go through itthree times in my life so far.
I'm 30 years old and I intendto keep revisiting it, but let
(13:50):
me just read out loud these 12words, right?
So we're responsible for thefollowing love, feelings,
thoughts, values, limits,attitudes, behaviors, beliefs,
talents, choices and desires.
I think I got them all.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yep, yeah, you did.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah.
So again, if you're followingalong on YouTube, you'll get to
see this, but I just want to saythat out loud, because these
are all really big categories.
These are like whoa, how do I,how do I have control, how do I
have responsibility for mydesires or my beliefs?
But that's part of what we'regoing to keep getting into right
now.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, and I am a queen of cheat sheets, so I like
reading a book and making acheat sheet, at least of things
that I like.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
We're cut from the same cloth as I've been aware of
?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
So what your viewers on YouTube can see and what the
listeners can also have as adownload in this Cloud and
Townsend Boundaries Define Us.
This cheat sheet is just abullet point reference when they
were talking about all theseresponsibilities and what we
need to do with them.
This is the sheet for that bookI use as a resource whenever
I'm processing something andwhen I'm using the reflective
(15:02):
listening exercise.
I have this out when I'm askingif I've got a sentence and I
probably should have hadsomething prepared at this point
and I've got something that Iprobably need to do a worksheet
on, but I'm not ready to takethe time to figure that out, but
we've got a sentence.
Let's say this I feel blankabout blank, because I'm going
(15:23):
to.
The first thing I'm going toput out is all of my feelings.
In fact, when they watch thesevideos and they come to the
workshop, you're going to see asample of all of that, but I put
all of my so you're not justwriting a single feeling.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
When you say I feel blank, you might be writing five
or 10 or some amount.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I actually, and my worksheets are, are messy.
They are meant to be.
It really challenges us if weare um, a little oh, I don't
know if I should use that word,I but when we, when we are a
little ocd on on our, you know,got full sentences.
My english grammar is all goodand all that.
It may challenge more peoplethan not, but let it be messy.
What I often say is you'rethrowing up on the page You've
(16:05):
got to get it real.
You have to throw up on the pagebecause God honesty is best
You're not you're only going toheal as deep as you are honest
with yourself on these responses.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
And so that is so important yeah it's helpful.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
So all of the feelings, and then I will, I
will kind of discern which oneis the most, the primary feeling
, and choose that one that goesup in the sentence.
And then the thoughts, andagain we.
I don't know how much time thatwe can put on these, but if I
would say that zero in on theones that are, really, they're
all very important.
(16:43):
Some people may say I don'tknow if I have many values that
are challenged.
Well, you'd be surprised.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
But when it comes to thoughts, I see how feelings fit
into that blank.
I feel blank, but are yousaying, then we also put
thoughts into the blank, or doesthat go somewhere else?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
So see this little area right here, if I were to
write in and perhaps I shouldhave had a sample that I could
go pull and maybe we could pushpause and I could go grab one
and start over.
But you can tell me if that'ssomething you want to do.
But I will write in as manythree to five or more feelings
(17:20):
that I'm feeling about thissentence, right here above,
where on this graphic, wherefeelings are, and then I'll go
over to thoughts.
How are my thoughts beingchallenged by this sentence?
And it could be anything from,let's say, I'm agitated with my
mom because she's not wanting totake her boot off and exercise
(17:44):
her foot, because she's afraidof taking her boot off, she's
hurt her foot and so, yeah, soI'm frustrated with her not
wanting to do that and I wouldwrite that down.
I'm frustrated with mom for notwanting to take off her boot,
and I would write that down.
I'm frustrated with mom for notwanting to take off her boot.
And then any other thoughtsthat I would have about this
event, and I'm not really makingthis up.
This is a real thing, but one ofthe challenges that I have with
(18:07):
her real life, my values inthis scenario would be I'm
valuing autonomy.
I have a history of arelationship with my mom and
you'll see that in both thebasic exercise video and also
the advanced exercise video, andit's just the way the Lord is
working with my growingrelationship of intimacy with my
(18:27):
mom, being real with her andwith people in ministry about
what God's doing to continue torefine me using this exercise.
But I value autonomy that I aman individual individual.
My mom and I have a history ofcodependency.
She would have me do things forher.
I would feel guilty if I didn't.
There was a lot of that goingback and forth and so I wrestle
(18:50):
with those things and I wouldhave to if I were using that
sentence.
I would have to establish howare my values being challenged?
And I'm going to go back overhere and just use it.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I just want to highlight too, with values In
some ways.
I think I've heard it fromAugustine that this almost
sounds like that idea of whatour heart really cares most
about, or what.
I've heard the term affections.
I don't know if that's actuallydifferent or not.
I don't fully understand thatword.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It would marry a little bit, even with desires.
But this is, they say.
You know, what we value is whatwe love and assign importance
to.
So that goes to what you werealluding to as well.
We often don't takeresponsibility for what we value
.
We are caught up in valuing theapproval of men rather than the
approval of God, and so there'smore in their definition.
That's on the cheat sheet too,but it starts to read our mail
(19:40):
when it comes to-.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Wow, yeah, I was gonna say this sounds like
you're realizing the deep heartstruggles that you have, that
are with, so I'm just pulling itback to thinking about, like,
for example, someone dealingwith unwanted sexual behaviors.
If they're able to stop longenough to go through this type
of exercise, they pause, they'rethinking about their feelings
and processing this.
(20:01):
There's almost always going tobe a deep heart value that is
being rubbed against, Like Ifelt snubbed or I feel afraid
that I'll look dumb.
That might be with my examplelast week with procrastinating
on a paper and going topornography instead.
Well, what's my value?
Well, I want want to feel Idon't want to feel dumb.
(20:22):
I don't know that's.
You might need a deeper look,right, but that that is hitting
at a really deep spot like whatam I?
I can also think for betrayedspouses or even for parents.
I really value my family havingit together in public and, look
, I'm not yet a parent, so Iknow you are and so you could
probably speak to this moreaccurately.
But I could imagine in myfuture, if God blesses us with
(20:46):
children, really caring a lotabout like, how does our family
come off?
But that value might.
That doesn't really align with.
You know God looks beyondexternal.
You know the externals and helooks at the heart.
So there's something there, Ithink, for anyone listening.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Always, yes, and always the challenging of our
distorted thinking in regards toany of this, whatever comes on
the paper because of oursentence and as we go around,
another one that's important onhere and the limits you know,
setting limits on others, likehow is my sentence challenging
my responsibility for settinglimits on others, or how is it
(21:23):
challenging my for setting myown internal limits, like with
my mom?
Whatever scenario they justagain and it tells us, you know,
we have to limit exposure topeople who behave poorly and
allow space inside ourselves.
I love this part to have afeeling, impulse or desire
without acting on it, thatstarts growing.
Some maturity is that I havethis feeling, impulse and or
(21:45):
desire.
I have to acknowledge it, but Idon't have to act on it, I
don't have to follow it throughand it gives it a space yeah,
and we've even talked earlier inthis summer kind of season of
becoming whole podcast about.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
We literally have physical limits, Like so many
people don't recognize.
We have physical limits.
We have emotional limits.
We need to set limits on others.
These are not categories all ofus were brought up with.
Right that it's okay to say noor whatever right.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
All of these are.
I'm still learning, I'mpracticing this the best way, I
know how, all the time, and theLord is still okay.
Let's have another discussionabout this.
We're going on a deeper leveland I love that about it,
because these are things thatare hindering me from being in
the fullest relationship withhim and being gratified entirely
(22:33):
by what he offers, and so Iwant to remove those things.
But back to this cheat sheet onboundaries, the
responsibilities, one that Ireally like and this could be
the nerdy part of me that is,attitudes, their definition, and
it's very succinct, but it sayshave to do with our orientation
or stance towards something orsomeone, and it's learned early
(22:54):
in life someone, and it'slearned early in life.
Now, when we think of it in theway that I have had to make
sense of this and use this inthe workshop and elsewhere, is
that this I teach my people andI hear them talk about it as
well as as I literally have abody posture, a stance, if I
become defensive and for thelongest time, a lot of my work
(23:14):
and on my reflective listeningswere dealing with this my
attitude was defensive and so Ihad a posture of defensive and a
stance and it was verycontrolling and things along the
line.
Those need to be explored.
Sometimes someone will just sayattitude is ticked off.
They'll write that there andthat's good, we've left them to
be.
You know, okay, I won't harassthem too much, but if you write
(23:37):
that too many times, I want toask you to go deeper.
What does ticked off look like?
And let's start describing itso you can really really
understand what you're trying tosay.
The rest of these, as you know,I don't know whether we need to
go through them as far asidentifying, but it suffices to
say for your listeners orwhoever's watching it is that
when we go back to this singleworksheet, is we want to?
(24:01):
We are zeroing in on thissentence.
How is this sentencechallenging my responsibility
for every one of those synonyms?
Now, it may not hit every oneof them.
There's maybe a couple that pop, and in the very beginning of
learning this exercise, itusually is just a couple, but
the longer I use this, the moreI understand that I'm working at
(24:24):
core issues and the more thingsthat the Holy Spirit's I've got
more words to say that are onhere.
So you've got a lot of goodrevelation that is coming.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
This is dense.
I mean, yeah, this is somethingI want to talk about.
This is dense.
I mean, yeah, this is somethingI like.
The term you use, circle themountain until until God helps
me through it.
I forget if you used that thisweek or last week, but God, yeah
, god is in the business of.
I mean we call this podcastbecoming whole for a reason,
right, he wants to make us whole.
There's a Greek word, teleos,sometimes translated perfect.
Be perfect, as your heavenlyfather is perfect.
(24:59):
But a better translation fromwhat I understand is become
whole.
Become like this integratedperson who loves God with all
that.
They are all the parts.
Within all of these 11 or 12 orwhatever boundaries, my values
align with his.
I use my talents for him, mydesires even.
I mean this is such a maybecontroversial one for some of us
(25:20):
recognizing all of us havedesires that are not what align
with God's desires, and so byreflecting on this on a regular
basis, like how am I needing todeal with my desires or navigate
it, I can just see so muchfruit in that exercise for
people dealing with a variety ofsexual brokenness.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
And I know several places to jump off on that one,
james, and it's good thecircling of the mountain.
Number one and God is agentleman.
He doesn't force us to learnlessons, but by consequence of
our choices, we repeat thoselessons again and again, and
again and again until we learnto choose.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Sounds a little bit like the entire Old Testament
right, the Israelites over andover right and in our lives.
I mean truly.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
And to the point of this exercise and to your point
on the word perfect and teleos,and is the whole complete,
lacking in nothing.
And so what the Lord is drivingat is that I remain and for
those of you who are listening,I'm putting my hands together
and kind of cupping them into acircle to represent what the
visual is on the screen for theYouTube viewers is that the Lord
(26:35):
would have us to be inside thiscircle, whole, complete,
lacking in nothing, taking fullresponsibility for stewardship
of who he's called me to be.
Now I am learning and applyingthis as I go, with this many
years, but we are learning as wego to make sure that we have
our armor on and that we'rewalking in the true knowledge,
(26:58):
that we know not just the headknowledge but the actual
experience.
I know God to be good.
I know that he is faithful.
I have seen him show up.
I've got memorial stone aftermemorial stone and, quite
frankly, these worksheets becomememorial stones because you
will have an incident with thescriptures that show up that
minister to your heart in yourneed, and it's going to take you
(27:20):
into a new place of revelationand discovery and I would
recommend doing what I do isthat you date them and you keep
them and you can look back onhow he has shown himself
faithful over the course of yourlife with him.
I'm going to let you drivebecause I think I've I don't
know what I've where I'm at, sogood.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Well, I want to get into the seven desires in a
moment, but is there anythingelse with the uh looking back at
the circle and then with thosefour blue words in between?
I know we talked about pause.
You need to pause to be able toactually take stock of all this
.
Where was discern, gbi andprotect?
Did that come into play alreadyto this point in?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
the process.
Where did I?
What happened to myinstructions?
So I am going to.
Well, it somehow got clickedoff, I don't know.
In the instructor.
I'm going to read, because Idon't think I'm going to be able
to find it quick enough unlessit's going to show me nope, all
right, so we're going to ignorethat.
I'm going to show me Nope, allright, so we're going to ignore
that.
I'm going to read it to you.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
These are the instructions that are in a PDF
on the page right Reflectivelistening page.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
These are the advanced reflective listening
instructions and so on.
Step three course.
Step one is filling out thesentence.
That would be helpful if I gotback to the visual for the
people who want to.
So you're pausing anddiscerning what's going on as
far as your feelings, then youreflect and meditate on your
statement and then you go aroundthe circle and you identify
with God honesty, how yourresponsibilities are being
(28:44):
challenged.
Then to align your responseswith God's truth.
Step three any differencebetween your responses and God's
truth indicates an area forgrowth and God's truth indicates
an area for growth.
Here we discern, we consider,we understand, perceive between
the truth and the lie.
Typically I will have aresponse and I have had plenty
(29:11):
that are very fleshly, they'rehonest.
I'm throwing up on the page.
I'm not trying to make itpretty for you.
I have several examples ofthose on the website and showing
my humanity.
So I have my fleshly statementthere.
But then I also have scripture,or I'm seeking to find
scripture that shows God'sperspective towards that thing.
Is that where the I need comesin, like later on on the page at
the bottom good, because thenext thing is we write down the
(29:41):
discerning of God's characterthat either confirms or
contrasts with my statement thatI've put down there.
I'm writing down the scripturesor even if it's just this
character identification, ifwe're a newbie in the Bible we
don't really know the word, weunderstand his character
somewhat, we write that down,then we make these things a part
of our meditation andreflection and then the next
thing we do is we reflect onthose scriptures and then we
list action steps that we'regoing to need to change to obey
(30:06):
and conform to God's character.
So this is where we learn.
That gap we were talking aboutpreviously is that we have where
my experience and my perceptionand interpretation of life is
here, and then I've got God'sWord over here and there's this
gap of understanding, and so Iam doing my best at this point
(30:27):
to determine what are my bestnext steps to try to stand on
the truth of God's Word in thisscenario about that thing.
And so I'm writing out, like forme with some previous scenarios
with my mom, it was learning tobe merciful, learning to have
(30:50):
compassion in areas of herweakness, and so things along
that line, and so it will showyou in step four, the steps that
you need to fill in that gap,at least to start to learn how
to stand firm and strong in thetruth.
And so that's discern God'sbest interest is step five, and
(31:12):
that's going to lead into theseven desires of the heart, and
so it is with the objective ofprotecting God's best interest
and obtaining healthy intimacy.
This yada, knowing and becomingknown ask yourself what do I
need?
And it says write down anypractical needs that are
relevant to the statement.
It could be I need gas, I needfood, I need a down any
practical needs that arerelevant to the statement.
(31:33):
You know it could be I need gas, I need food, I need a job or
whatever that might be, becausethose will be seriously.
Those will be distractions.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
And then the next is to review this page.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
This is the PDF that I've used a lot with people.
Yeah, really great.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Love it as well.
So the it says review documentSeven Desires of Every Heart and
make a note of any desires thatspeak to your heart relevant to
the statement.
Insert your responses whereprovided.
Now, here's where I'd alsodirect your listeners and
viewers to the videos, becauseI've got several that zero in on
just this portion, because thisdocument is loaded for bear.
(32:14):
You've got, on the left-handside, the desires and the real
basic definition of what theymean.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
And I want to read these out loud for real quick
because these are so key.
So number one is being heardand understood.
We all have that desire.
Number two is being affirmed,is blessed, four is safe, five
is touched obviously in healthyways, six is chosen and seven is
included.
These are seven desires we allhave.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah now, what I would like to highlight in the
use of this document and it'salso in those videos as well is
this center column, how thesedesires are triggered.
I found as much help from thiscenter column as I did from the
left column of justunderstanding.
Basically, you know what thosethings mean and like, for
(33:06):
example, it talks that heard andunderstood.
Those not heard or understoodgrowing up may struggle to find
their voice to be able to speakabout what they feel need or
desire.
Or they may talk a lot.
Now this next two I want tobecause you're listeners.
Well, I did.
I mean this relates to a lot ofpeople so affirmed, approved of
who we are and what we do.
(33:27):
But it says and how it'striggered is, those who didn't
get affirmed struggle to know ifthey ever got things right.
Any criticism, howeverconstructive, might take them
back to guilt, feelings ofalways being wrong, even when
complimented.
They might not believe.
It resonates with a lot ofpeople.
Now I'm going to read blessedbecause of of the conclusion
(33:48):
that comes from laser's workhere.
Blessed means to be specialbecause of who we are, love for
who we are.
We don't have to do anything,and that one is hard for a lot
of people to learn to acceptthat we don't have to do
anything, and partly because ofthis.
Okay, so how this need istriggered is the lack of
(34:08):
blessing causes shame and aconstant need to find blessing,
the need for approval, but itnever seems to accomplish the
desired result.
Others are put off by theperson's self-centeredness and
complaints.
Now it shows this kind of likeanother column that comes off of
affirmed and blessed kind ofmerge into one and it says when
(34:29):
we confuse the desire to beaffirmed with the desire to be
blessed, we wind up thinkingthat the way we get blessed is
to do things.
We try to earn a blessing orprove our value.
I don't know about you, james,but I work with a lot of people
who wrestle with this, thisperformance mindset of I've got
(34:51):
to earn it, and this is what theLord is wanting to tear down
these strongholds and these aremessages that we have acquired
from our experiences in family,of origins or learn life
experiences.
Somehow we've interpreted thesethings and they have
established, if you will, ourstrongholds, these brick by
bricks, thought by thoughts thathave been raised up against the
(35:13):
knowledge of God, and God istaking them down one by one, and
sometimes he just kicks themain one and all of them go.
But this is a very effectualsheet to work with alongside
this exercise, because whatyou're ended up doing, so we've
got the I have I feel aboutbecause I've gone around the
(35:33):
circle, I have thrown up on thepage how I really feel about it.
I found God's word and how hesees both me and this thing and
the learning curve.
That's my next steps and what Ineed to do for my next steps and
then what I need, and let's sayI choose that I need to be
heard and understood, I need tobe affirmed and I would like to
(35:56):
be blessed and sometimes it goeswith all of them.
You know, whatever matters, notyou can list them all.
And then my next steps are youwill take that step four that
you made this list, the learningcurve list, and you implant
that down in step seven toprotect.
You know this is where you listyour next action steps to get
that need met in healthy ways.
(36:16):
So we are listing the actionsteps that get that need met in
healthy ways.
Let's say I have I reallywished I had a better sentence
and that I'd worked with, say, Ineed to be affirmed this
situation that I have going withmy mom about her not taking
responsibility to take her off?
of her her off and do her ankleexercises and I need to be
(36:37):
affirmed.
What that would look like forme to be affirmed in that
scenario would be for my mom todo.
What she actually ended updoing this last weekend was I'm
sorry I shouldn't have arguedwith you.
I can take off my boot and Ican do my exercise.
I didn't need her.
To apologize, but I wanted to beaffirmed that I didn't need to
(37:00):
be affirmed by her.
I needed to be affirmed that Iwas doing the right thing, that
I was encouraging her to dosomething she didn't want to do.
She wanted to remain in a stateof neediness, but she needed to
be moved beyond that and Ineeded to be affirmed that that
was the right thing to do.
So what it looked like was thatsomeone was acknowledging, the
(37:21):
doctor did, and the nurses did,and then later my mom even did.
So that's what I need.
Has what it looks like, becausethis is why you and I have a
visioning capacity.
We have to envision where we'regoing.
If we envision it, if we writeout what this is going to look
(37:43):
like when I get that need met,then I'm going to be able to
conceptualize it and I'm goingto be able to draw it closer to
me.
It now becomes a goal.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, and for so many of us this means growing in
intimacy with God in such a waywhere whether it's through his
word or through you know kind ofthoughts he puts into our mind,
or a combination like I'mgrowing and being affirmed by
him not to neglect the good oflike a doctor, affirming you're
doing the right thing andtelling your mom but I got to, I
(38:13):
got to highlight this too forour listeners and we do have to
land the plane pretty soon.
But so many of us especially ifyou're struggling with unwanted
sexual behaviors and perhaps ifyou've had significant wounds
in your life and and now you'vebeen betrayed and now there's
this new significant wound somany of us are longing for
affirmation.
(38:33):
So many of us are looking forblessing.
I mean, I just think back tothe Jewish rite of passage for
young men and young women.
I think it was age 13.
Young men had bar mitzvahs.
I've actually been to some.
I grew up in a pretty Jewishtown.
Young women had bat mitzvahsand this was literally a
ceremony of blessing that childinto man or womanhood, like
(38:54):
without them doing anything.
So they needed to be affirmedlike hey, you did great on that,
that, that you know homeworkassignment son, when they were
five, and they need to beaffirmed throughout.
But they also need these keyplaces of you're loved and
blessed, no matter what you do.
And so just think about this forsecond listeners, especially if
you struggle with pornographyor other sexual sin, how might
(39:18):
you be looking in those videosor actions to feel heard and
understood?
How might you be looking tofeel affirmed?
How might you be looking tofeel blessed, like I'm valuable,
even if I don't do anything?
How might you be looking tofeel safe, especially I'm, I'm,
I'm valuable, even if I don't doanything?
How, how might you be lookingto feel safe, especially if
you're looking at videos on ascreen?
There's a kind of sense ofsafety.
(39:39):
I'm not actually in this, butI'm experiencing it.
It's, you know, quasi.
I'm giving air quotes, I'mexperiencing it.
How might you?
How might being touched besomething you're taking to
sexual behaviors?
How might be being chosen?
So you didn't get to highlightthis, but chosen, I think is
defined as like one-on-one kindof way, like my dad chose me.
(39:59):
You know that kind of thingincluded is more communal.
So those are the sixth andseventh desires of every heart.
And so how might the videos oractions you're going to be
attempts to feel chosen orincluded.
That's why I find this sohelpful, sue, because every
single guy I work with,including myself, can see ways
in which we're taking theseGod-given desires to illicit
(40:23):
places and God actually wants tobe the one to meet them in
increasing measure.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, that was really good and very spot on and a
great place to kind of bring itall back to the.
You know, the opposite ofaddiction is human connection.
It's connection and I rememberwhen I had first learned that
and that and and god is iswanting to meet that, he's
wanting to prove himselffaithful, he's, he's wanting for
(40:51):
us to be confident in who he isand then kind of come back to
you know where we are with thisexercise, or anybody who's
struggling with unwantedbehaviors, anybody parents, or
anybody who is alive today whohas any kind of um heaviness and
burden and they're not walkingall around in joy all the time
(41:15):
that there's things that theyhave to process.
This exercise can be helpfulwith that.
And the latter component is,once we have worked all the way
through the seventh step.
The seventh step includessharing it with someone else.
It is one thing for me to bebefore my creator and own up to
all of these things and tocommit to steward my life better
(41:40):
, but it also then, now, as Ishare it with you, it's that new
neural pathway of becomingknown and now I'm safe.
I've done all thepost-traumatic growth now.
I've done the managingdistressing emotions.
I've done all thepost-traumatic growth.
Now I've done the managingdistressing emotions.
I've safety and disclosure andI have challenged distorted
thinking and I have all of thatwrapped up in this one exercise
(42:03):
to be able to take it and sharewith someone in community.
And I am seen, I'm soothed, I'msafe, I'm secure.
It's all of the things that wecrave in our innermost being.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Beautiful.
So I want to simplify somethingfor our listeners.
So this was a lot.
This is, I mean again, sue istrying to give us a taste of
something that takes a lot.
You know more time to explainin depth.
So please, please, please,check out in the show notes the
reflective listening workshop.
So, please, please, please,check out in the show notes the
reflective listening workshop.
But I just want to say, for someof you guys simply, you know,
(42:39):
kind of memorizing this sentence, I feel blank about blank,
because blank is going to be so,so, so helpful, especially when
you're triggered or tempted,and so try to just take that in,
and what Sue said at the endcan be a great part of that too.
Share it with someone, journalit to God, but also, ideally,
share it with a spouse or afriend.
And, by the way, if you'redealing with a marriage where
(43:02):
there's been one person dealingwith sexual sin, the other's
experienced betrayal, getting intouch with these deeper
emotions is such a gift to bothof you in the marriage with
these deeper emotions is such agift to both of you in the
marriage.
So, even if you can't fullygrasp all of today, you don't
have time quite yet to engagethe workshop.
Just remember this sentence.
I feel blank about blankbecause blank, and perhaps
(43:24):
remember or look up these sevendesires of every heart and use
that as a way to connect withbrothers and sisters, and
perhaps with your spouse, andeven with your kids, and
teaching your kids this, likethis, is going to be such a gift
, so that they're not takingtheir feelings to pornography or
other other places.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Um so sue, I'm yeah, go ahead can I jump on that for
just a moment?
This is an you've touched onsomething that's a necessary
component for us to change thedirection of where the body of
Christ is going in the future,and that is to teach our
children about continualcleansing conversations.
They make a great segue for theGospel-Centered Sexuality piece
at the close too, but the pointis that as we, whether we are in
(44:07):
recovery, we're out of whereverwe are in this whether
grandparents, parents,caregivers, we're out of
wherever we are in this wherethe grandparents, parents,
caregivers if we will learn thisskill and teach it to the next
generation.
The basic exercise I havepeople plaster it.
You know there's a kid'sversion of it.
You know stuff on therefrigerator.
Because when you teach thememotional resilience skills,
you're going to teach themhaving the capacity to deal with
(44:29):
pain in the right way and sothat they won't go to coping
mechanisms and we'll get aheadof this addiction curve in the
future.
For the body of Christ.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yeah.
So Sue just referenced thatlast week.
She mentioned that she's havinga gospel-centered sexuality
course kicking off this fall.
Again, link will be in the shownotes.
I do want to mention on ourbehalf that we do have our
retreats coming up for both menand women our Awaken Retreat for
Men, sacred by Design for Women.
These are great places towhether or not we bust out this
(44:59):
particular tool although it'spossible at least parts of this
could come out soon in thecurriculum that I'm helping
develop for the men's retreat.
But you will experience some ofthese core needs being heard
and understood, blessed, it'llbe a safe environment.
Both of these will be safeenvironments and so I just want
to encourage that and, sue, Ijust would love if would you be
(45:19):
willing to close us out actuallyin a word of prayer and just
pray over our listeners as theytry to grow in these difficult
but such important skills.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
I will do it.
Thank you for the privilege,heavenly Father, lord Jesus,
holy Spirit, we are yours.
We come to you with our wholeheart, desiring all that you
have for us, fully aware that wehave unbelief, false beliefs,
we have tauntings, we havemessages that are standing in
the way of us fully becomingknown and walking in the
(45:50):
wholeness that you offer.
And so, jesus, we just ask thatyou would strengthen us with
power through your spirit in ourinner man, that, indeed, that
we would seek you above all else, that, lord, god, that we would
freeze, frame the moment andask ourselves what am I feeling
about and why?
And pause that moment to findout, to get in touch, so that we
(46:15):
can make better choices.
Lord, you have wired us in sucha way that, when we do identify
that emotion, our intellect,the prefrontal cortex, is now
able to make a better decision.
So Jesus thank you for the wayyou've made us.
We ask, lord God, for youroutpouring for the listeners,
that you will take thisinformation and build on the
(46:38):
platform the foundation that youalready have established with
them, and that they may reachand receive the highest and best
that you have for them.
In Christ's name, we trust andpray For your kingdom's sake,
lord, amen.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Amen.
Welcome back to the Becoming Whole podcast.
I'm James Craig, director ofProjects here at Regeneration,
and Spiritual Coach, and I'mjoined once again by Sue Moore
of Forgiven Much Ministries.
Welcome back, sue.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey, glad to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Sue shared this wonderful quote with me that I'm
going to start us out byreading.
A relapse occurs when slips arerepeated without learning from
them.
When slips are repeated withoutlearning from them, there are
two primary reasons for aperson's relapse the inability
to develop intimaterelationships and the inability
to manage pain in recovery.
(00:34):
This is a quote from AlanMarlott and Sue, as we're
talking for our second week in arow about processing our
emotions.
Well, last week, we wentthrough your basic reflective
listening tool, which teaches ushow to reflect on our own
emotions.
If you haven't listened to thatepisode, please go back and
check that one out.
It's a great foundation forwhat we're getting into today,
(00:58):
which is the more advancedtechnique of reflecting on your
emotions that you've developed.
And so this quote really sticksout to me, sue, because it's
highlighting both the relationalimportance of healing.
I've heard it said in a TEDTalk Maybe we'll be able to put
this in the show notes but theopposite of addiction is not
sobriety, the opposite ofaddiction is community.
(01:19):
So that first part of what he'ssaying of developing intimate
relationships really resonatesas I hear it.
But the second part, equallyimportant inability to manage
pain and recovery, and so muchof what recovery is about is
processing through pain and nolonger taking pain to illicit
places.
And so, sue, let's dive rightin.
(01:41):
How do you take people forwardonce they've got a little bit of
the basic understanding of howto process emotions, how to, how
to get in touch with painfulfeelings right?
Where do you take them fromthere in your workshops?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
the individual, whether it's workshops or or
just in, you know, coaching orjust the recovery plan itself
and we alluded to this a littlebit previously is we got to have
an understanding of where arewe going?
There has to be some reason forme to jump off of this path
that I've been on forever.
(02:17):
There has to be a belief or ahope that there's something
better and different.
Now, I may not have.
These could be unbelieversyou're talking to this, could be
people, somebody who's so brandnew in Jesus that they don't
know much about scripture, butthey want to believe that what I
have experienced is not allthat.
There is that there's somethingelse, and so that would be
(02:39):
point.
One is that, um, because a lotof people, some sometimes
individuals we don't understandthat jesus is for real about
offering us all of these things.
All of these things are yours.
The thing is that you're gonnahave to let go of those other
things and we become we kind ofstraddle, the the hanging on to
(03:03):
both of them because we'retrying to discern which one is
going to be the most helpful andbeneficial and then, when it
comes down to the moment of painit's going to be, do I really
want to become all that God'scalling me to be.
So there's that part that'sstarting us off, that God's
(03:26):
calling me to be.
So there's that part that'sstarting us off.
And that also touches onsomething I mentioned to you,
whether we were praying in lasttime or talking about it but is
the advanced version of thereflective listening.
In my view, is all aboutspiritual stewardship.
It is me learning my buy-in tobecoming all that God has called
(03:49):
me to be.
I may not completely understandthat when I begin, I may be a
little bit wavering about it,but I'm beginning and God will
take all of that, and so that'sthat.
This exercises for that person.
That goes I don't have a wholelot of Christian ease in my back
(04:10):
pocket, and what I do have Idon't want because it it didn't,
it didn't have any real,authentic, genuine relationship
in it, and so I'm not sure I'manswering your question or going
around the bush.
Sure I'm answering yourquestion or going around the
bush, but this advanced versionis intent on bringing to the
surface the unbelief, the lies,the taunting, the
(04:34):
interpretations that we've hadfrom our experiences, and then
also bringing the scripture ofwhat God says about you and
about that thing and us takingan honest look at the difference
between the two.
This is what God says.
This is what I'm saying.
In order for me to change andbecome new and walk in my new
(04:57):
man, I'm going to have to takeGod at his word.
Well, I'd have to know what hisword is, and so this is what
the exercise does.
I have to know what his word is, and so this is what the
exercise does.
It helps, it drives them to theword to find out what God's
word says, and sometimes theymay not have the sight and verse
of where that is, but they havethis understanding where I hear
that he's good and I understandthat he's merciful.
And we'll start there.
(05:19):
Individual is learning to takeGod at his word.
As they process this painfulexperience of, I can't maintain
my sobriety.
I don't know why I keep goingback.
I don't want to and startingthere in a processing and kind
(05:45):
of touching on Marlott's quote.
But the ability to developintimate relationships means
that you used a reference in thelast segment that you'd
procrastinated on a paper.
And you just identified the factthat you had been
procrastinating on a paperbecause and that I had mentioned
(06:07):
to you that that's the nugget,that is a beginning.
You have a sentence.
I feel blank about blank,because that is the beginning,
because in that you can becomeknown.
God knows, you knows that it'sin you, but now you acknowledge
it back to the father.
That's yada, knowing andbecoming known.
So now you have this yada withthe father and now it is on us
(06:27):
to become known and yada withsomebody else and you share that
with somebody else and thisbegins the pattern of developing
resilience.
And that's when you can beknown and seen and in a safe
place and then have ourdistorted thinking challenged.
That all happens inrelationship and I may have
(06:49):
taken this way off guard.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I apologize, that's awesome.
Well, first of all, you werespeaking a little hebrew there,
so for those who don't know theterm when, when you see the word
no in hebrew, that's the hebrewword yada.
So adam knew his wife Eve andthey conceived a child.
It can refer to sexual intimacyin that regard, but it's an
(07:11):
icon.
Yadah is like an icon for theintimacy that God wants with us,
the knowing and being knownrelationship.
And so, sue, part of what I hearyou saying is look, part of the
Christian journey is knowingwhat is true about us, but also
recognizing there's a gapbetween what I hear or
theologically know is true andwhat I really believe or operate
(07:33):
under.
And so it sounds like thisadvanced reflective listening
exercise is trying to help closethat gap.
It's trying to say, hey, theremight be a wound here or an
emotion you don't really knowhow to navigate or something
else that's kind of in the way.
So let's work on that so thatwe can close the gap and you
could be more in that shalomthat's another Hebrew word for
(07:55):
it.
You know that peace with God,that sense of I'm comfortable
with who God is and his love forme.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, the congruence there.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
The congruence, the congruence.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, my belief system, and that doesn't happen
overnight.
Now we can intellectually,intellectually be aware of
something.
I can be intellectually awareof a false belief system that I
have and that God does not wantme walking in that.
But the fact that I'm aware ofit, he does not make me
automatically able to walk anydifferent.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I have the first step .
It's like you got to have someawareness typically, but then
it's not.
It's not.
You could, you could changeyour awareness overnight, but
you usually don't change yourheart attitude overnight that
gets tested with plenty ofopportunities, experience by
experience and there's lots ofdo-overs.
(08:46):
Such, again, a hopeful word.
You've lived it.
And so, sue, what are some ofthe?
Yeah, can you give us a littlebit of an intro to this?
Again, we will not have time tounpack the fullness of this
tool that you've created.
But how do we start?
Like we, we, we left off lastepisode with this helpful
sentence, right, I feel blankabout blank, because blank.
(09:09):
And then you also introduce,like who, who am I trying to
become?
Or what do I do going from this, how do we go from that basic
understanding of I'm feelingthis, et cetera, to this
advanced connection?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
with.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
God.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
If I can, can I um?
I'm going to share my screen.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, please do.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So I'm going to drive a little bit here.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And, first of all, good opportunity to remind
people that we're posting theseon YouTube, the video version.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So yeah, I've started off with the landing page for
the reflective listeningworksheet because not only for
the workshop registration buttonthat they can click there and
the downloadable links for thedocuments that they can use, but
these, these documents.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
By the way, they're gold and I love I was mentioning
last week I love to useespecially I think we'll get
into it today, but the sevendesires of every heart doc I see
on there is so, so helpful.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah yeah, all of them are priceless to take us to
where we're going, but I wantedto highlight um.
Here's some short videos.
We met intro and basic exercise.
You build on this foundationtalks about emotions, concept of
anxiety, feeling, awareness,all of that stuff.
And then this part, I think, isgold and this is God's
relational design.
This is the, the Yada, theneural relational design of God
(10:25):
and what disturbs our rest.
For your listeners and forpeople who are wanting to go
further into this, those arejust.
You need them.
And also for those resistant,the making a case for emotional
resilience, I'm prepared forbear, I'm prepared for people
going no, I don't want to dothis.
And I'm going to give youneuroscience, five points of
neuroscience as to why science,neuroscience and all as to why
(10:47):
to do this.
I do want to go to.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And, by the way, if you're just listening, sue is
giving us an overview of thereflective listening page, as
she said, which is in the shownotes, so please check that out
afterward if you're not able towatch.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So've.
I've placed the advanced versionworksheet up on the screen to
share, and we'll talk thatthrough, and again those in the
show notes, and clicking on allthose downloads you can have it
the reason being is I wanted to,um, describe what's going on
here with this imagery, um, lastweek, well, we see the sentence
that I feel blank about blank,because at the very top then you
(11:25):
see this graphic imagerythere's a, there's a person,
that's you and I, and then wehave the red heart, that's the
fullness heart, and then you'vegot these blue words Pause,
discern God's best interest andprotect.
We spoke.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
What was the GBI?
Again, god's best.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
God's best interest, yeah, and those are described in
the instructions as well.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
This pause we talked about last week.
We have to pause.
If I'm, I have to slow it downlong enough to consider what's
going on, and so this worksheetis.
It's the meat and potatoes itactually needs to be.
All of these documents that I'mrecommending that an individual
participate in need to be byyour devotional table where you
have your quiet time with theLord in your journal.
Because the Holy Spirit, themore you use them and they
(12:11):
become second nature, the HolySpirit is going to give you
elbows in the side aboutsomething about this worksheet
or something about that sevendesires of the heart, or the
boundaries that speaks to yoursituation, and you're going to
want to have those close by forreview and we'll show them in a
moment.
But my point of bringing up thisimagery here, james, is that
(12:32):
these 11 synonyms that arecircling you and I are the 11
synonyms for boundaries.
They are our responsibilities,and remember that we talked
about last week that thisexercise is established on
Proverbs 4.23, above all else,highest priority of everything,
guard your heart, your mind,your will and emotions, for out
(12:55):
of it flow the issues of life InCloud and Townsend's work on
boundaries.
Those 11 synonyms that we havesurrounding the heart, right
there surrounding us, aresynonyms for the word heart and
they are our responsibility.
That is what we are.
We are guarding our heart.
We are guarding our life, ourpurpose in God, our person, our
(13:18):
position and our purpose in Godwhen we are accountable.
This is that spiritualstewardship I was talking about.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
These are those things that we are actually
responsible for.
And, by the way, again we'lllink to boundaries the book in
the show notes.
This is probably the book I useunwanted a lot with clients.
But second to unwanted, I oftenhave clients go through
boundaries because it isincredibly helpful.
Sue, I've had to go through itthree times in my life so far.
I'm 30 years old and I intendto keep revisiting it, but let
(13:50):
me just read out loud these 12words, right?
So we're responsible for thefollowing love, feelings,
thoughts, values, limits,attitudes, behaviors, beliefs,
talents, choices and desires.
I think I got them all.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yep, yeah, you did.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah.
So again, if you're followingalong on YouTube, you'll get to
see this, but I just want to saythat out loud, because these
are all really big categories.
These are like whoa, how do I,how do I have control, how do I
have responsibility for mydesires or my beliefs?
But that's part of what we'regoing to keep getting into right
now.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, and I am a queen of cheat sheets, so I like
reading a book and making acheat sheet, at least of things
that I like.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
We're cut from the same cloth as I've been aware of
?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
So what your viewers on YouTube can see and what the
listeners can also have as adownload in this Cloud and
Townsend Boundaries Define Us.
This cheat sheet is just abullet point reference when they
were talking about all theseresponsibilities and what we
need to do with them.
This is the sheet for that bookI use as a resource whenever
I'm processing something andwhen I'm using the reflective
(15:02):
listening exercise.
I have this out when I'm askingif I've got a sentence and I
probably should have hadsomething prepared at this point
and I've got something that Iprobably need to do a worksheet
on, but I'm not ready to takethe time to figure that out, but
we've got a sentence.
Let's say this I feel blankabout blank, because I'm going
(15:23):
to.
The first thing I'm going toput out is all of my feelings.
In fact, when they watch thesevideos and they come to the
workshop, you're going to see asample of all of that, but I put
all of my so you're not justwriting a single feeling.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
When you say I feel blank, you might be writing five
or 10 or some amount.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I actually, and my worksheets are, are messy.
They are meant to be.
It really challenges us if weare um, a little oh, I don't
know if I should use that word,I but when we, when we are a
little ocd on on our, you know,got full sentences.
My english grammar is all goodand all that.
It may challenge more peoplethan not, but let it be messy.
What I often say is you'rethrowing up on the page You've
(16:05):
got to get it real.
You have to throw up on the pagebecause God honesty is best
You're not you're only going toheal as deep as you are honest
with yourself on these responses.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
And so that is so important yeah it's helpful.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
So all of the feelings, and then I will, I
will kind of discern which oneis the most, the primary feeling
, and choose that one that goesup in the sentence.
And then the thoughts, andagain we.
I don't know how much time thatwe can put on these, but if I
would say that zero in on theones that are, really, they're
all very important.
(16:43):
Some people may say I don'tknow if I have many values that
are challenged.
Well, you'd be surprised.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
But when it comes to thoughts, I see how feelings fit
into that blank.
I feel blank, but are yousaying, then we also put
thoughts into the blank, or doesthat go somewhere else?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
So see this little area right here, if I were to
write in and perhaps I shouldhave had a sample that I could
go pull and maybe we could pushpause and I could go grab one
and start over.
But you can tell me if that'ssomething you want to do.
But I will write in as manythree to five or more feelings
(17:20):
that I'm feeling about thissentence, right here above,
where on this graphic, wherefeelings are, and then I'll go
over to thoughts.
How are my thoughts beingchallenged by this sentence?
And it could be anything from,let's say, I'm agitated with my
mom because she's not wanting totake her boot off and exercise
(17:44):
her foot, because she's afraidof taking her boot off, she's
hurt her foot and so, yeah, soI'm frustrated with her not
wanting to do that and I wouldwrite that down.
I'm frustrated with mom for notwanting to take off her boot,
and I would write that down.
I'm frustrated with mom for notwanting to take off her boot.
And then any other thoughtsthat I would have about this
event, and I'm not really makingthis up.
This is a real thing, but one ofthe challenges that I have with
(18:07):
her real life, my values inthis scenario would be I'm
valuing autonomy.
I have a history of arelationship with my mom and
you'll see that in both thebasic exercise video and also
the advanced exercise video, andit's just the way the Lord is
working with my growingrelationship of intimacy with my
(18:27):
mom, being real with her andwith people in ministry about
what God's doing to continue torefine me using this exercise.
But I value autonomy that I aman individual individual.
My mom and I have a history ofcodependency.
She would have me do things forher.
I would feel guilty if I didn't.
There was a lot of that goingback and forth and so I wrestle
(18:50):
with those things and I wouldhave to if I were using that
sentence.
I would have to establish howare my values being challenged?
And I'm going to go back overhere and just use it.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I just want to highlight too, with values In
some ways.
I think I've heard it fromAugustine that this almost
sounds like that idea of whatour heart really cares most
about, or what.
I've heard the term affections.
I don't know if that's actuallydifferent or not.
I don't fully understand thatword.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It would marry a little bit, even with desires.
But this is, they say.
You know, what we value is whatwe love and assign importance
to.
So that goes to what you werealluding to as well.
We often don't takeresponsibility for what we value
.
We are caught up in valuing theapproval of men rather than the
approval of God, and so there'smore in their definition.
That's on the cheat sheet too,but it starts to read our mail
(19:40):
when it comes to-.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Wow, yeah, I was gonna say this sounds like
you're realizing the deep heartstruggles that you have, that
are with, so I'm just pulling itback to thinking about, like,
for example, someone dealingwith unwanted sexual behaviors.
If they're able to stop longenough to go through this type
of exercise, they pause, they'rethinking about their feelings
and processing this.
(20:01):
There's almost always going tobe a deep heart value that is
being rubbed against, Like Ifelt snubbed or I feel afraid
that I'll look dumb.
That might be with my examplelast week with procrastinating
on a paper and going topornography instead.
Well, what's my value?
Well, I want want to feel Idon't want to feel dumb.
(20:22):
I don't know that's.
You might need a deeper look,right, but that that is hitting
at a really deep spot like whatam I?
I can also think for betrayedspouses or even for parents.
I really value my family havingit together in public and, look
, I'm not yet a parent, so Iknow you are and so you could
probably speak to this moreaccurately.
But I could imagine in myfuture, if God blesses us with
(20:46):
children, really caring a lotabout like, how does our family
come off?
But that value might.
That doesn't really align with.
You know God looks beyondexternal.
You know the externals and helooks at the heart.
So there's something there, Ithink, for anyone listening.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Always, yes, and always the challenging of our
distorted thinking in regards toany of this, whatever comes on
the paper because of oursentence and as we go around,
another one that's important onhere and the limits you know,
setting limits on others, likehow is my sentence challenging
my responsibility for settinglimits on others, or how is it
(21:23):
challenging my for setting myown internal limits, like with
my mom?
Whatever scenario they justagain and it tells us, you know,
we have to limit exposure topeople who behave poorly and
allow space inside ourselves.
I love this part to have afeeling, impulse or desire
without acting on it, thatstarts growing.
Some maturity is that I havethis feeling, impulse and or
(21:45):
desire.
I have to acknowledge it, but Idon't have to act on it, I
don't have to follow it throughand it gives it a space yeah,
and we've even talked earlier inthis summer kind of season of
becoming whole podcast about.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
We literally have physical limits, Like so many
people don't recognize.
We have physical limits.
We have emotional limits.
We need to set limits on others.
These are not categories all ofus were brought up with.
Right that it's okay to say noor whatever right.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
All of these are.
I'm still learning, I'mpracticing this the best way, I
know how, all the time, and theLord is still okay.
Let's have another discussionabout this.
We're going on a deeper leveland I love that about it,
because these are things thatare hindering me from being in
the fullest relationship withhim and being gratified entirely
(22:33):
by what he offers, and so Iwant to remove those things.
But back to this cheat sheet onboundaries, the
responsibilities, one that Ireally like and this could be
the nerdy part of me that is,attitudes, their definition, and
it's very succinct, but it sayshave to do with our orientation
or stance towards something orsomeone, and it's learned early
(22:54):
in life someone, and it'slearned early in life.
Now, when we think of it in theway that I have had to make
sense of this and use this inthe workshop and elsewhere, is
that this I teach my people andI hear them talk about it as
well as as I literally have abody posture, a stance, if I
become defensive and for thelongest time, a lot of my work
(23:14):
and on my reflective listeningswere dealing with this my
attitude was defensive and so Ihad a posture of defensive and a
stance and it was verycontrolling and things along the
line.
Those need to be explored.
Sometimes someone will just sayattitude is ticked off.
They'll write that there andthat's good, we've left them to
be.
You know, okay, I won't harassthem too much, but if you write
(23:37):
that too many times, I want toask you to go deeper.
What does ticked off look like?
And let's start describing itso you can really really
understand what you're trying tosay.
The rest of these, as you know,I don't know whether we need to
go through them as far asidentifying, but it suffices to
say for your listeners orwhoever's watching it is that
when we go back to this singleworksheet, is we want to?
(24:01):
We are zeroing in on thissentence.
How is this sentencechallenging my responsibility
for every one of those synonyms?
Now, it may not hit every oneof them.
There's maybe a couple that pop, and in the very beginning of
learning this exercise, itusually is just a couple, but
the longer I use this, the moreI understand that I'm working at
(24:24):
core issues and the more thingsthat the Holy Spirit's I've got
more words to say that are onhere.
So you've got a lot of goodrevelation that is coming.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
This is dense.
I mean, yeah, this is somethingI want to talk about.
This is dense.
I mean, yeah, this is somethingI like.
The term you use, circle themountain until until God helps
me through it.
I forget if you used that thisweek or last week, but God, yeah
, god is in the business of.
I mean we call this podcastbecoming whole for a reason,
right, he wants to make us whole.
There's a Greek word, teleos,sometimes translated perfect.
Be perfect, as your heavenlyfather is perfect.
(24:59):
But a better translation fromwhat I understand is become
whole.
Become like this integratedperson who loves God with all
that.
They are all the parts.
Within all of these 11 or 12 orwhatever boundaries, my values
align with his.
I use my talents for him, mydesires even.
I mean this is such a maybecontroversial one for some of us
(25:20):
recognizing all of us havedesires that are not what align
with God's desires, and so byreflecting on this on a regular
basis, like how am I needing todeal with my desires or navigate
it, I can just see so muchfruit in that exercise for
people dealing with a variety ofsexual brokenness.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
And I know several places to jump off on that one,
james, and it's good thecircling of the mountain.
Number one and God is agentleman.
He doesn't force us to learnlessons, but by consequence of
our choices, we repeat thoselessons again and again, and
again and again until we learnto choose.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Sounds a little bit like the entire Old Testament
right, the Israelites over andover right and in our lives.
I mean truly.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
And to the point of this exercise and to your point
on the word perfect and teleos,and is the whole complete,
lacking in nothing.
And so what the Lord is drivingat is that I remain and for
those of you who are listening,I'm putting my hands together
and kind of cupping them into acircle to represent what the
visual is on the screen for theYouTube viewers is that the Lord
(26:35):
would have us to be inside thiscircle, whole, complete,
lacking in nothing, taking fullresponsibility for stewardship
of who he's called me to be.
Now I am learning and applyingthis as I go, with this many
years, but we are learning as wego to make sure that we have
our armor on and that we'rewalking in the true knowledge,
(26:58):
that we know not just the headknowledge but the actual
experience.
I know God to be good.
I know that he is faithful.
I have seen him show up.
I've got memorial stone aftermemorial stone and, quite
frankly, these worksheets becomememorial stones because you
will have an incident with thescriptures that show up that
minister to your heart in yourneed, and it's going to take you
(27:20):
into a new place of revelationand discovery and I would
recommend doing what I do isthat you date them and you keep
them and you can look back onhow he has shown himself
faithful over the course of yourlife with him.
I'm going to let you drivebecause I think I've I don't
know what I've where I'm at, sogood.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Well, I want to get into the seven desires in a
moment, but is there anythingelse with the uh looking back at
the circle and then with thosefour blue words in between?
I know we talked about pause.
You need to pause to be able toactually take stock of all this
.
Where was discern, gbi andprotect?
Did that come into play alreadyto this point in?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
the process.
Where did I?
What happened to myinstructions?
So I am going to.
Well, it somehow got clickedoff, I don't know.
In the instructor.
I'm going to read, because Idon't think I'm going to be able
to find it quick enough unlessit's going to show me nope, all
right, so we're going to ignorethat.
I'm going to show me Nope, allright, so we're going to ignore
that.
I'm going to read it to you.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
These are the instructions that are in a PDF
on the page right Reflectivelistening page.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
These are the advanced reflective listening
instructions and so on.
Step three course.
Step one is filling out thesentence.
That would be helpful if I gotback to the visual for the
people who want to.
So you're pausing anddiscerning what's going on as
far as your feelings, then youreflect and meditate on your
statement and then you go aroundthe circle and you identify
with God honesty, how yourresponsibilities are being
(28:44):
challenged.
Then to align your responseswith God's truth.
Step three any differencebetween your responses and God's
truth indicates an area forgrowth and God's truth indicates
an area for growth.
Here we discern, we consider,we understand, perceive between
the truth and the lie.
Typically I will have aresponse and I have had plenty
(29:11):
that are very fleshly, they'rehonest.
I'm throwing up on the page.
I'm not trying to make itpretty for you.
I have several examples ofthose on the website and showing
my humanity.
So I have my fleshly statementthere.
But then I also have scripture,or I'm seeking to find
scripture that shows God'sperspective towards that thing.
Is that where the I need comesin, like later on on the page at
the bottom good, because thenext thing is we write down the
(29:41):
discerning of God's characterthat either confirms or
contrasts with my statement thatI've put down there.
I'm writing down the scripturesor even if it's just this
character identification, ifwe're a newbie in the Bible we
don't really know the word, weunderstand his character
somewhat, we write that down,then we make these things a part
of our meditation andreflection and then the next
thing we do is we reflect onthose scriptures and then we
list action steps that we'regoing to need to change to obey
(30:06):
and conform to God's character.
So this is where we learn.
That gap we were talking aboutpreviously is that we have where
my experience and my perceptionand interpretation of life is
here, and then I've got God'sWord over here and there's this
gap of understanding, and so Iam doing my best at this point
(30:27):
to determine what are my bestnext steps to try to stand on
the truth of God's Word in thisscenario about that thing.
And so I'm writing out, like forme with some previous scenarios
with my mom, it was learning tobe merciful, learning to have
(30:50):
compassion in areas of herweakness, and so things along
that line, and so it will showyou in step four, the steps that
you need to fill in that gap,at least to start to learn how
to stand firm and strong in thetruth.
And so that's discern God'sbest interest is step five, and
(31:12):
that's going to lead into theseven desires of the heart, and
so it is with the objective ofprotecting God's best interest
and obtaining healthy intimacy.
This yada, knowing and becomingknown ask yourself what do I
need?
And it says write down anypractical needs that are
relevant to the statement.
It could be I need gas, I needfood, I need a down any
practical needs that arerelevant to the statement.
(31:33):
You know it could be I need gas, I need food, I need a job or
whatever that might be, becausethose will be seriously.
Those will be distractions.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
And then the next is to review this page.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
This is the PDF that I've used a lot with people.
Yeah, really great.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Love it as well.
So the it says review documentSeven Desires of Every Heart and
make a note of any desires thatspeak to your heart relevant to
the statement.
Insert your responses whereprovided.
Now, here's where I'd alsodirect your listeners and
viewers to the videos, becauseI've got several that zero in on
just this portion, because thisdocument is loaded for bear.
(32:14):
You've got, on the left-handside, the desires and the real
basic definition of what theymean.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
And I want to read these out loud for real quick
because these are so key.
So number one is being heardand understood.
We all have that desire.
Number two is being affirmed,is blessed, four is safe, five
is touched obviously in healthyways, six is chosen and seven is
included.
These are seven desires we allhave.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah now, what I would like to highlight in the
use of this document and it'salso in those videos as well is
this center column, how thesedesires are triggered.
I found as much help from thiscenter column as I did from the
left column of justunderstanding.
Basically, you know what thosethings mean and like, for
(33:06):
example, it talks that heard andunderstood.
Those not heard or understoodgrowing up may struggle to find
their voice to be able to speakabout what they feel need or
desire.
Or they may talk a lot.
Now this next two I want tobecause you're listeners.
Well, I did.
I mean this relates to a lot ofpeople so affirmed, approved of
who we are and what we do.
(33:27):
But it says and how it'striggered is, those who didn't
get affirmed struggle to know ifthey ever got things right.
Any criticism, howeverconstructive, might take them
back to guilt, feelings ofalways being wrong, even when
complimented.
They might not believe.
It resonates with a lot ofpeople.
Now I'm going to read blessedbecause of of the conclusion
(33:48):
that comes from laser's workhere.
Blessed means to be specialbecause of who we are, love for
who we are.
We don't have to do anything,and that one is hard for a lot
of people to learn to acceptthat we don't have to do
anything, and partly because ofthis.
Okay, so how this need istriggered is the lack of
(34:08):
blessing causes shame and aconstant need to find blessing,
the need for approval, but itnever seems to accomplish the
desired result.
Others are put off by theperson's self-centeredness and
complaints.
Now it shows this kind of likeanother column that comes off of
affirmed and blessed kind ofmerge into one and it says when
(34:29):
we confuse the desire to beaffirmed with the desire to be
blessed, we wind up thinkingthat the way we get blessed is
to do things.
We try to earn a blessing orprove our value.
I don't know about you, james,but I work with a lot of people
who wrestle with this, thisperformance mindset of I've got
(34:51):
to earn it, and this is what theLord is wanting to tear down
these strongholds and these aremessages that we have acquired
from our experiences in family,of origins or learn life
experiences.
Somehow we've interpreted thesethings and they have
established, if you will, ourstrongholds, these brick by
bricks, thought by thoughts thathave been raised up against the
(35:13):
knowledge of God, and God istaking them down one by one, and
sometimes he just kicks themain one and all of them go.
But this is a very effectualsheet to work with alongside
this exercise, because whatyou're ended up doing, so we've
got the I have I feel aboutbecause I've gone around the
(35:33):
circle, I have thrown up on thepage how I really feel about it.
I found God's word and how hesees both me and this thing and
the learning curve.
That's my next steps and what Ineed to do for my next steps and
then what I need, and let's sayI choose that I need to be
heard and understood, I need tobe affirmed and I would like to
(35:56):
be blessed and sometimes it goeswith all of them.
You know, whatever matters, notyou can list them all.
And then my next steps are youwill take that step four that
you made this list, the learningcurve list, and you implant
that down in step seven toprotect.
You know this is where you listyour next action steps to get
that need met in healthy ways.
(36:16):
So we are listing the actionsteps that get that need met in
healthy ways.
Let's say I have I reallywished I had a better sentence
and that I'd worked with, say, Ineed to be affirmed this
situation that I have going withmy mom about her not taking
responsibility to take her off?
of her her off and do her ankleexercises and I need to be
(36:37):
affirmed.
What that would look like forme to be affirmed in that
scenario would be for my mom todo.
What she actually ended updoing this last weekend was I'm
sorry I shouldn't have arguedwith you.
I can take off my boot and Ican do my exercise.
I didn't need her.
To apologize, but I wanted to beaffirmed that I didn't need to
(37:00):
be affirmed by her.
I needed to be affirmed that Iwas doing the right thing, that
I was encouraging her to dosomething she didn't want to do.
She wanted to remain in a stateof neediness, but she needed to
be moved beyond that and Ineeded to be affirmed that that
was the right thing to do.
So what it looked like was thatsomeone was acknowledging, the
(37:21):
doctor did, and the nurses did,and then later my mom even did.
So that's what I need.
Has what it looks like, becausethis is why you and I have a
visioning capacity.
We have to envision where we'regoing.
If we envision it, if we writeout what this is going to look
(37:43):
like when I get that need met,then I'm going to be able to
conceptualize it and I'm goingto be able to draw it closer to
me.
It now becomes a goal.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, and for so many of us this means growing in
intimacy with God in such a waywhere whether it's through his
word or through you know kind ofthoughts he puts into our mind,
or a combination like I'mgrowing and being affirmed by
him not to neglect the good oflike a doctor, affirming you're
doing the right thing andtelling your mom but I got to, I
(38:13):
got to highlight this too forour listeners and we do have to
land the plane pretty soon.
But so many of us especially ifyou're struggling with unwanted
sexual behaviors and perhaps ifyou've had significant wounds
in your life and and now you'vebeen betrayed and now there's
this new significant wound somany of us are longing for
affirmation.
(38:33):
So many of us are looking forblessing.
I mean, I just think back tothe Jewish rite of passage for
young men and young women.
I think it was age 13.
Young men had bar mitzvahs.
I've actually been to some.
I grew up in a pretty Jewishtown.
Young women had bat mitzvahsand this was literally a
ceremony of blessing that childinto man or womanhood, like
(38:54):
without them doing anything.
So they needed to be affirmedlike hey, you did great on that,
that, that you know homeworkassignment son, when they were
five, and they need to beaffirmed throughout.
But they also need these keyplaces of you're loved and
blessed, no matter what you do.
And so just think about this forsecond listeners, especially if
you struggle with pornographyor other sexual sin, how might
(39:18):
you be looking in those videosor actions to feel heard and
understood?
How might you be looking tofeel affirmed?
How might you be looking tofeel blessed, like I'm valuable,
even if I don't do anything?
How might you be looking tofeel safe, especially I'm, I'm,
I'm valuable, even if I don't doanything?
How, how might you be lookingto feel safe, especially if
you're looking at videos on ascreen?
There's a kind of sense ofsafety.
(39:39):
I'm not actually in this, butI'm experiencing it.
It's, you know, quasi.
I'm giving air quotes, I'mexperiencing it.
How might you?
How might being touched besomething you're taking to
sexual behaviors?
How might be being chosen?
So you didn't get to highlightthis, but chosen, I think is
defined as like one-on-one kindof way, like my dad chose me.
(39:59):
You know that kind of thingincluded is more communal.
So those are the sixth andseventh desires of every heart.
And so how might the videos oractions you're going to be
attempts to feel chosen orincluded.
That's why I find this sohelpful, sue, because every
single guy I work with,including myself, can see ways
in which we're taking theseGod-given desires to illicit
(40:23):
places and God actually wants tobe the one to meet them in
increasing measure.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, that was really good and very spot on and a
great place to kind of bring itall back to the.
You know, the opposite ofaddiction is human connection.
It's connection and I rememberwhen I had first learned that
and that and and god is iswanting to meet that, he's
wanting to prove himselffaithful, he's, he's wanting for
(40:51):
us to be confident in who he isand then kind of come back to
you know where we are with thisexercise, or anybody who's
struggling with unwantedbehaviors, anybody parents, or
anybody who is alive today whohas any kind of um heaviness and
burden and they're not walkingall around in joy all the time
(41:15):
that there's things that theyhave to process.
This exercise can be helpfulwith that.
And the latter component is,once we have worked all the way
through the seventh step.
The seventh step includessharing it with someone else.
It is one thing for me to bebefore my creator and own up to
all of these things and tocommit to steward my life better
(41:40):
, but it also then, now, as Ishare it with you, it's that new
neural pathway of becomingknown and now I'm safe.
I've done all thepost-traumatic growth now.
I've done the managingdistressing emotions.
I've done all thepost-traumatic growth.
Now I've done the managingdistressing emotions.
I've safety and disclosure andI have challenged distorted
thinking and I have all of thatwrapped up in this one exercise
(42:03):
to be able to take it and sharewith someone in community.
And I am seen, I'm soothed, I'msafe, I'm secure.
It's all of the things that wecrave in our innermost being.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Beautiful.
So I want to simplify somethingfor our listeners.
So this was a lot.
This is, I mean again, sue istrying to give us a taste of
something that takes a lot.
You know more time to explainin depth.
So please, please, please,check out in the show notes the
reflective listening workshop.
So, please, please, please,check out in the show notes the
reflective listening workshop.
But I just want to say, for someof you guys simply, you know,
(42:39):
kind of memorizing this sentence, I feel blank about blank,
because blank is going to be so,so, so helpful, especially when
you're triggered or tempted,and so try to just take that in,
and what Sue said at the endcan be a great part of that too.
Share it with someone, journalit to God, but also, ideally,
share it with a spouse or afriend.
And, by the way, if you'redealing with a marriage where
(43:02):
there's been one person dealingwith sexual sin, the other's
experienced betrayal, getting intouch with these deeper
emotions is such a gift to bothof you in the marriage with
these deeper emotions is such agift to both of you in the
marriage.
So, even if you can't fullygrasp all of today, you don't
have time quite yet to engagethe workshop.
Just remember this sentence.
I feel blank about blankbecause blank, and perhaps
(43:24):
remember or look up these sevendesires of every heart and use
that as a way to connect withbrothers and sisters, and
perhaps with your spouse, andeven with your kids, and
teaching your kids this, likethis, is going to be such a gift
, so that they're not takingtheir feelings to pornography or
other other places.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Um so sue, I'm yeah, go ahead can I jump on that for
just a moment?
This is an you've touched onsomething that's a necessary
component for us to change thedirection of where the body of
Christ is going in the future,and that is to teach our
children about continualcleansing conversations.
They make a great segue for theGospel-Centered Sexuality piece
at the close too, but the pointis that as we, whether we are in
(44:07):
recovery, we're out of whereverwe are in this whether
grandparents, parents,caregivers, we're out of
wherever we are in this wherethe grandparents, parents,
caregivers if we will learn thisskill and teach it to the next
generation.
The basic exercise I havepeople plaster it.
You know there's a kid'sversion of it.
You know stuff on therefrigerator.
Because when you teach thememotional resilience skills,
you're going to teach themhaving the capacity to deal with
(44:29):
pain in the right way and sothat they won't go to coping
mechanisms and we'll get aheadof this addiction curve in the
future.
For the body of Christ.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yeah.
So Sue just referenced thatlast week.
She mentioned that she's havinga gospel-centered sexuality
course kicking off this fall.
Again, link will be in the shownotes.
I do want to mention on ourbehalf that we do have our
retreats coming up for both menand women our Awaken Retreat for
Men, sacred by Design for Women.
These are great places towhether or not we bust out this
(44:59):
particular tool although it'spossible at least parts of this
could come out soon in thecurriculum that I'm helping
develop for the men's retreat.
But you will experience some ofthese core needs being heard
and understood, blessed, it'llbe a safe environment.
Both of these will be safeenvironments and so I just want
to encourage that and, sue, Ijust would love if would you be
(45:19):
willing to close us out actuallyin a word of prayer and just
pray over our listeners as theytry to grow in these difficult
but such important skills.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
I will do it.
Thank you for the privilege,heavenly Father, lord Jesus,
holy Spirit, we are yours.
We come to you with our wholeheart, desiring all that you
have for us, fully aware that wehave unbelief, false beliefs,
we have tauntings, we havemessages that are standing in
the way of us fully becomingknown and walking in the
(45:50):
wholeness that you offer.
And so, jesus, we just ask thatyou would strengthen us with
power through your spirit in ourinner man, that, indeed, that
we would seek you above all else, that, lord, god, that we would
freeze, frame the moment andask ourselves what am I feeling
about and why?
And pause that moment to findout, to get in touch, so that we
(46:15):
can make better choices.
Lord, you have wired us in sucha way that, when we do identify
that emotion, our intellect,the prefrontal cortex, is now
able to make a better decision.
So Jesus thank you for the wayyou've made us.
We ask, lord God, for youroutpouring for the listeners,
that you will take thisinformation and build on the
(46:38):
platform the foundation that youalready have established with
them, and that they may reachand receive the highest and best
that you have for them.
In Christ's name, we trust andpray For your kingdom's sake,
lord, amen.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Amen.
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