September 23, 2025 • 33 mins
On this episode of the Becoming Whole Podcast, we welcome Sue Moore, the founder and CEO of Giving Much Ministries. Sue walks us through a basic emotions reflection exercise to help us process negative emotions and overcome unwanted sexual behaviors. Learn about her personal journey and how emotional health is crucial for dealing with betrayal, parenting challenges, and personal addictions. Discover practical steps to cultivate emotional resilience by pausing to reflect on your feelings, understanding their origins, and seeking healthier ways to meet your emotional needs. Don't miss this episode filled with hope and actionable advice.
For more information or to join click one of the links below.
Manna - Men seeking freedom from unwanted sexual behavior, temptation, and shame.
Oasis - Women seeking freedom from unwanted sexual behavior, temptation, and shame.
Compass - Wives seeking healing from betrayal and broken trust.
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Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole
👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
At the core of unwanted behavior is the
inability to process negativeemotions.
That's a direct quote from SueMoore, the founder and CEO of
Forgiven Much Ministries and ourguest on Becoming Whole podcast
this week and next week.
Welcome, sue.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
We're going to need to unpack that a lot, and what
we're going to try to do thisweek is Sue and I are going to
walk Sue's going to walk usthrough this week a basic
emotions reflection exercise,because we need help in our
emotional world to overcomesexual sin, and if you're a
betrayed partner or a parent,growing and processing negative
(00:41):
emotions is such a key skill.
If you're a betrayed partner andyou're in the thick of it, you
are dealing with a lot ofnegative emotions.
If you're a parent trying towalk with young kids or
teenagers who maybe are in aprodigal phase, there's a lot of
negative emotions to process,and so I want to go back to that
quote as we get into this Atthe core of unwanted behaviors,
(01:01):
including unwanted sexualbehaviors, is the inability to
process negative emotion, and so, if this is true, then becoming
more emotionally healthy is acrucial foundation for
overcoming unwanted sexualbehaviors, processing through
betrayal and parenting well.
So, sue, what led you in thefirst place to recognize this?
(01:23):
Was it something from your ownjourney or something completely
different?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
No, it started many years ago actually.
Yes, from my own journey,probably at the beginning of
ministry and knowing that I wasstill a work in progress and
seeking the Lord for moreunderstanding as to what was
keeping me from walking in thefullness that the Lord's Word
promised.
And at the beginning it was apulling together of the tools
(01:50):
that I had had at that moment.
I taught boundaries for manyyears, so boundaries was pulled
into this, and then Dr Lacer'swork on the seven desires of
every heart was also pulled intoit.
But that was just at thebeginning for me to be able to
construct, actually followingthe Lord's lead established on
(02:14):
Proverbs 4.23,.
Above all else, guard your heart, for out of it flow the issues
of life, and I would imagineyour listeners as well as myself
with that time.
You know we kind of that's agood verse, we kind of gloss
over it.
You know blah, blah, blah.
Let's guard your heart, butthat's a command to guard and
(02:35):
protect your heart, your mind,will and emotions, for out of it
flow the issues of life and thecourse of my life in my
addiction phases and whatnot wasall over the map because I was
not guarding my heart, I was nottaking responsibility for my
(02:55):
heart, and so that's where itbegan.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So, sue, you kind of alluded I know some of your
story.
We had met a couple of yearsago at a SILS conference and
you've trained our team in thisexercise.
Would you be willing to justshare a little bit of a glimpse
into your story and some of howyour story coalesces around
growing in emotional maturity?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Absolutely yeah.
Recovering recovered female sexand love addict.
Drug addict.
Married a sex addict drugaddict before we ever knew any
of those real terms about sexaddiction, whatever or not.
I was promiscuous and all that.
And then we married.
I knew he had a pornographyaddiction but I thought that I
(03:40):
can't beat him, join him.
And then I was going to beevery woman beat them, join them
.
And then I was going to beevery woman and hang on a second
.
I have to pause this for asecond because I've got some
Spotify music that's coming upin the background.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I thought you were just trying to introduce some
cool background music for yourtest.
It's not for me.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
So let me start that all over again.
So I arranged the loss of myvirginity.
So let me start that all overagain.
So I arranged the loss of myvirginity had drug addiction
issues was introduced to mysoon-to-be husband.
After three months he had apornography addiction.
I pretty much had the can'tbeat him.
Join him, I'll be every woman.
You won't need that.
We wrestled with his addictionfor 10 years, every three to six
(04:24):
months like clockwork.
I always felt like I nevermeasured up.
It was always my problem.
Every man does it.
What's wrong with you?
And so if you, I'm sure you'vegot betrayed spouses that are
listening and oh yeah understandthat, and so I wrestled deeply
with what was wrong with me.
Why was I not enough?
So I had that element of it.
But we were married, um, and Iactually kind of went into a
(04:46):
workaholism kind of performanceissues along the same line, and
then he ended up, um, themarriage imploded.
He offended someone and aboutafter almost 20 years the
marriage imploded and I was asingle mom and I unfortunately
went right back to my acting outbehaviors after the marriage
(05:08):
imploded but, praise be to God,rededicated my life to Christ,
and that would have been in 1999.
And then just became a lover ofthe word and just dug in with
everything I had.
And then, 2007, I went intofull-time ministry and, yeah, a
lot of meat on that bone to talkabout it, but I don't know if
(05:29):
that gives you the introductionof it enough.
Your question was how did I getinto this emotional processing
part?
Well, I didn't really knowabout it, quite frankly, until I
was wanting to get well and waswrestling a lot with
maintaining sobriety andswitching addictions and all of
that.
And so journaling andprocessing helped, seeking the
(05:51):
Lord helped, but, as I hadmentioned earlier, I wanted more
tools, and that's when I hadgone into full-time ministry and
I'd come up under Dr Lacer withLife Recovery and we developed
training and this, that and theother, and I was just pulling
together the exercise for myselfand was using it in the group
(06:11):
that I was leading and it hadbecome polished and practiced
over years and years and yearsand is what it is today because
of all of that use and I use itevery day in some manner or form
.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And I use it every day in some manner or form.
So, sue, is a walking testimonyof so many of the different
challenges that our listenershave gone through.
And, sue, I think that yourstory part of why I wanted our
listeners to hear a bit is thatwe heard the word hope as we
were coming into this today andI think it brings a lot of hope
to know that you could bethrough all the crazy things
(06:46):
you've been through and befollowing Jesus, a lover of him,
his word, and be serving othersin this area.
It's an incredible thing.
So I want to actually get intothe tool in just a moment, the
basic navigating emotionsreflections tool in just a
moment.
But you mentioned how you fellin love with the Bible.
Emotions reflections tool injust a moment.
But you mentioned how you fellin love with the Bible.
(07:06):
There still was some of a gapbetween that and then growing in
emotional maturity.
What's interesting to me, sue,is I read scripture more and
more as I get older.
I'm like man.
There's so much emotion stuffin here, but sometimes we can
kind of miss that or like it canfeel like there's a
disintegration between who theBible tells us to be and kind of
(07:29):
our emotional world.
So as we head into talkingabout the actual tool, did you
see a thread through scriptureLike was scripture actually a
part of you getting in touchwith your emotions, or did you
have to start to realize thatlater that scripture is full of,
you know, very emotional, rawprayers or whatever else?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You know, that's a very good question and I don't
know, as if I, looking back, Iwould have to say no, it was
just simply the drawing of God'sword, and I would go back to
say, yes, the Bible is emotionaland that's because God is
relational and God is first andforemost relational, this Yadah
knowing and becoming known.
We are created in his image andhe is a relational God Father,
(08:11):
son, holy Spirit and we aredrawn to and long for that
relationship and we see that inScripture, in scripture and so,
without really knowing and beingable to put that to words, the
scriptures itself and therelational knowing that happens
(08:31):
when you read the word of godand it reads you and connect
with the lord.
That knowing is what goes.
I don't know what that was, butI want more of that.
It was that kind of a draw thatbegan this relationship with
him.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
That's a beautiful thing.
And so, listeners, if you comefrom a tradition that maybe has
underemphasized the relationalor even the emotional nature of
God and man interacting together, because relationships are
often connected through emotions, right?
So if you've missed that, thisis an invitation today to
recognize that especially.
You see it all throughout thePsalms.
(09:08):
But we're in relationship.
We're made in the image of aGod who is emotional in ways
that are not broken whatsoever.
He's perfectly emotional, youmight say, but he is emotional.
There are emotions that aremeant to connect us to him and
him to us, and so there's aninvitation here, as you're
reading scripture, look out forways that god desires to connect
(09:31):
, loves and has passion andthings like that if I could
interject something here that isreally helpful for some
individuals who may be more umin the logic side of things
about this emotions and notreally.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
On the ministry's website, when you get on the
reflective listening landingpage, there's a plethora of
videos short videos, some longbut these ones are short in
regards to emotions and whatthey are.
Emotions is e motion.
You are attuning to the thingsthat are going on around you.
(10:05):
You are subjectively assessingand perceiving and interpreting
what's going on around you.
So there is a, a label, if youwill, an understanding of that,
what you are seeing, perceivingand interpreting.
So these emotions, the they arefeelings and feelings that rise
(10:27):
to the awareness.
That's what we're grabbing ahold of.
That's a feeling that I have.
It has a label and a name.
Ah, now, once I can label it, Ican name it and I can do
something with it, I acknowledgeit.
Now it's come to the light andso it's helpful because,
depending on your upbringing andmost individuals in fact, I
(10:51):
don't know if I've ever seensomeone come through the
ministry that has had a familythat has taught emotional
resilience from the get-go theyreally wouldn't be in the need
for the ministry because theywould be unable to process all
of this negative emotions thatyou talked about, those core
unwanted sexual behaviors comingout arising out of the
(11:13):
inability to process thosenegative emotions.
So that's why we are actuallygrowing the emotional vocabulary
of people who come into theministry, into this work,
because we usually come in witha very small set of emotions and
if we've been shut down and ifwe've had wounding, we really
got down to a couple I'm fine,I'm good or this sucks.
(11:38):
You know we're just a few andwe don't understand the benefit
of really expanding thatvocabulary.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
So let's get into it, sue.
Sue, if you haven't alreadygleaned this listener, sue is an
incredible resource creatortons of knowledge.
Her website has a ton of toolsfor you.
We're going to dive in firstand foremost into this
reflective listening exercise.
There is a larger workshop, Ithink.
Sue told me that it takes abouttwo hours to go through.
(12:09):
Sue, would that be the liveversion or just watching the
videos?
No, that's live, and actually dothat on the second Tuesday of
every month, february throughNovember this tool presents in
(12:39):
connecting emotions and nottaking our negative emotions
right to sexual sin or or evenif you're a betrayed spouse or a
parent, right toward, you know,spiraling in, in, in.
Yeah, just spiraling, juststruggling to navigate emotion.
So feel free to start whereveryou want.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Sue with introducing this tool all right, um, the
basic and the advanced have thesame foundation in common and
it's the sentence I feel blankabout.
Blank because blank, that's thefoundational sentence and that
is a significant start and Iencourage individuals to
(13:15):
depending on.
And I encourage individuals todepending on.
They may have a model ofemotions they may have.
We often hear from individualsthat they're overwhelmed, and to
me that is categorized as anemotion by itself.
But I don't necessarily like toleave overwhelmed as it is,
because I believe overwhelmed islike a knotted ball that has to
be teased out, with a multitudeof different emotions that are
(13:37):
going on there.
So we need to identify all thefeelings and if again, you need
help, we've got a chart that hasemotions and intensifiers and
they're all over the internet,but we have our own as well and
just start to run down thefeelings that you have about a
(13:58):
particular subject.
Now you may come into this alittle in the middle and go.
I know my subject, I knowthere's something about this
situation that's bothering me,but I don't know all my emotions
.
So you can come in it from thatangle as well, and so you can.
Here's my subject.
What am I feeling about that?
And then we're pausing time,we're slowing down time to sit
(14:20):
with this and acknowledge thatthere's something about me is
feeling uneasy.
I'm feeling something.
What am I feeling?
So you're pausing andreflecting it's inner reflection
on what you are feeling, and Ido want to pause this for a
moment.
If you've got any clinicalpeople that are listening, if
(14:42):
you Googled reflective listening, you will find that there is a
quote unquote tool that is tolisten to other people and then
reflect back what they have said.
This is not what we're doing.
We are doing inner reflectionand there's actually
neuroscience to show how thisinner reflection and sharing it
in relationship bringsresilience and new neural
pathways and maybe we'll getinto that in the next one.
(15:03):
But this is how you renew themind.
But we have to pause.
No-transcript why my body'shaving a reaction.
(15:46):
Well, the reality is is thatyour body has been having a
reaction to that emotion andmany others for a long time in
order for you to get to a stateof actually physically feeling
it, so we can back it up, youknow.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
So one of the clues you mentioned sometimes we don't
know the emotions, sometimes wedon't know the subject, but if
we don't know the emotions, oneof the clues can be what's going
on in my body.
And that's an incredible clue.
If something is going on, thatlikely means it's been going on
more than we realize.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Right, we become conditioned to ignore, to
minimize, to deny and to put itaside.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, so there's that .
I want to press into that inone more way.
If you're listening and you'redealing with unwanted sexual
behaviors, try to think aboutand perhaps you were dealing
with it today or this week.
Try to think about was anythinggoing on in my body about?
And perhaps you were dealingwith it today or this week.
Try to think about was anythinggoing on in my body?
Were any emotions, whether justkind of cognitively, or I
actually felt them in my body?
(16:43):
My shoulders were tight, myneck felt tense, my stomach was
knotted up, like these can bereally helpful signals that
something more is going on, butsoon, if let's just say I do
figure out, okay.
I often hold tension near myneck and my shoulders.
Well, how do I kind of I don'tknow unpack that or figure out
(17:04):
what that really means?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
That's great.
Absolutely.
That is a symptom, if you will.
As well as clenching your hands, holding the elbow up, I mean
just interesting body postures.
As I've been learning this,I've been paying attention more
to my posture and my bodybecause it teaches a lot.
So once you recognize I've gotsomething going on, what is this
(17:27):
?
So that's your sentence.
I feel blank about blank,because you're starting to
freeze frame time and I'mthinking of and this had
happened to me many years agoand I use this example a lot is,
I was standing in a grocerystore and in the checkout or
near the checkout, and I feltjust a complete anxiety in my
(17:50):
body.
It was like my head, I hadelectricity, you know, just run
and I'm going, what is go, whatis this?
And I, okay, I feel anxiousabout and I started teasing.
I don't remember the situationat this point.
I could put in a multitude ofthem, but about a scenario,
because and I start assessingand then we can start unpacking
(18:12):
and the more you learn theexercise, you can go into your
basic needs I need to be heardand understood, I need to be
affirmed, I need to be blessed,I need to be safe, touched,
chosen, included, and those areall within the basic exercise.
And then the last step of thatis to what are my next steps to
get that meat met in healthyways?
(18:33):
Now, you're not going to be ableto rattle that off in the
grocery store just by listeningto the podcast.
I would love for you to, maybe,and by the Spirit of the Living
God you can, but you will alsoneed to learn to press, pause
and tolerate the anxiety of themoment and write this stuff down
(18:53):
.
Stuff down, because that'swhere the inner healing comes,
is that's when you invite theHoly Spirit in and that's when
he can start helping you tounderstand what this is about.
I would say this too is that wealso have, usually this.
This is about me being late forwork.
I have these feelings I'mrushing through traffic because
(19:17):
I am late for work and yep, thatfits.
But there's also most likely,something that's underneath that
.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Is that where the because comes in?
Because blank.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It can be.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It can be.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, I feel anxious about being late for work
because I stayed up too latelast night.
And you can fill in a multitudeof reasons and then you just
begin in the processing of that.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah.
So if you're going to anunwanted sexual behavior, part
of what's happening isautomatically you might feel
anxious or sad or ashamed or awhole variety of negative
emotions.
And without pausing long enoughto realize what's going on and
tolerating the negative emotion,what we're often doing is we're
taking it right to our sexualbehaviors and so what Sue's
(20:15):
inviting us to is so, so, sopractical Pause, notice, grow in
toleration.
Like I can handle this.
I will not die from thisfeeling of anxiety or I know
sometimes that can feel likedeath, especially if there's a
panic attack but recognizinggrowing intolerance and growing
in vocab, growing in awareness.
One of the other things that Ioften use with clients, sue and
I got this straight from you isyou just referenced it really
(20:38):
briefly, well, twice today sevendesires of every heart.
So you said this is from Markand Deborah Laser, who were kind
of pioneers in the Christianaddiction recovery, sexual
addiction recovery world, as faras I know, and they have these
seven core needs or desires thatevery heart has.
I love using this with clientsbecause so many of them are like
, especially if you're the typewho's like hey, I've had a
(21:01):
pretty good childhood, I don'thave any massive trauma.
I love pulling this out not tosay, hey, look, you've got
trauma, you just didn't noticeit, but just to say, look, none
of our parents were perfect andthese seven needs were not
perfectly met by any of ourparents.
So, sue, can we unpack thatbriefly, the seven desires of
every heart, and then alsoexplain more of where that fits
(21:22):
into the basic exercise, thebasic sentence.
I feel blank about blankbecause blank the basic exercise
, the basic sentence.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I feel blank about blank because blank, yeah, and
actually for the basic exercise,understanding for the
participant is going to be, forthe lack of a better term, more
surfacy understanding, more ofcolloquially, what you would
understand, for you heard andunderstood.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I need to be affirmed Basic definitely Okay.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, because if what ends up happening?
If you go deeper than that intowhat LACER is doing, you're
going to send a person into theadvanced, which is good which
we're going to get to next week.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah, looking forward to that.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
But these unmet needs , even if let's just say we're
talking with someone who's gotthese unwanted sexual behaviors
and they're acknowledging okay,I do, I've got this, I'm feeling
a physiological, I'm carryingsomething, I'm carrying anxiety,
I'm carrying fear, I'm carryingsomething and can I fit an
(22:24):
about in here and can I put in abecause and do I?
Can I fit an about in here andcan I put in a because and and
then doing that real?
Basically, then, looking atjust by the surface level of the
understanding, do I need to beheard and understood about
feelings and needs and what.
I need to be affirmed, then I'mokay that I, you know, I'm, I'm,
I'm all right.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
That's kind of where the next step can come in.
You mentioned that you often.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, because you're going to want in the next step.
So in here, james, is aconversation that needs to be
said, because it's kind ofunspoken and it fleshes itself
out without too much time is whyam I doing this?
Yeah, why am I doing this?
(23:10):
Yeah, why?
Why am I not wanting tocontinue in this addictive
behavior or these unhealthycoping methods, or whatever it
is that I'm doing?
Why do I want to pause andtolerate this stupid anxiety?
You know, seems like a dumbidea.
I don't want it.
I don't want you know I wantrelief.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
I don't want to sit, sit in this.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I had this discussion with the Lord many times, a
long time ago.
But the reality is is a personwill stay in a wrestling with
that addictive behavior, thatcoping method, whatever that is,
the tolerating of anxiety, justkeeping that going until and
unless they have a vision ofwhere they're going.
(23:46):
It is necessary for us and thisis where the hope comes in,
this is where it has to come inis that confident expectation of
goodness that God doesn't wasteanything.
No matter how many stupiddecisions that I have made and
I've made plenty of them he'susing and has used every one of
(24:06):
them to glorify his name.
And so, for your people who arelistening for this, why do I
want to press pause and figurethis out in the first place?
It's because there has to be adesire and a belief that there's
something else.
There's something more for meto experience out of life than
(24:29):
what I'm experiencing now.
I've got this part down.
I can go down here blindfolded,I can go into my acting out, I
can do all this Medicaid.
I don't even need instruction.
I've got that one covered.
And I'm not even truly I don'tknow convinced if there's
another option out here.
So, in tandem with this,emotional resilience, learning,
is this desire to discover allthat is available to me as a
(24:57):
body imager of the most high Godof all of those things.
And when we do that, weunderstand that there are a lot
of taunting voices inside ourheads that are saying a lot of
different things, from family,of origin on up, about why that
would not be true.
And so those are surfaced,those tauntings.
(25:23):
They can be from flesh andblood, but we also know the
tauntings of the adversary.
That's just a constant.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
But those things are surfaced as we do this
reflective listening, even thebasic, uh, even more so and more
intentionally with the advanced, because then they're targeted
with scripture or spiritualmaturity so let me just try to
imagine an example, sue, just tomake this super concrete for
(25:50):
those who are trying to gettheir heads around it,
especially if you're listening.
We actually, if you're watchingon YouTube, we have not shown
any visuals, so the listenersare not missing a visual right
now, but it'd be a good idea tolook this up so you can see it
if you're more of a visuallearner.
But I can just imagine, sue.
Let me just think of an examplefrom my past.
(26:13):
I'm at school, I'mprocrastinating on a paper, and
this could be for someone inwork as well.
So if I go the automatic pathof, okay, I'm going to just
procrastinate, I'm overwhelmed,I'm just going to go to sexual
sin.
That's going to keep me stuck.
That's seeking relief.
As we say it in Awaken 360,literally this week we're
recording our lesson topic.
This is our men's recoverygroup.
Our lesson topic wasrestoration over relief, and so
(26:35):
if I go the relief route, it'sthe same path I've always been
down, but God, like you'rehighlighting in his mercy,
actually wants to restore mebecause he actually wants us.
This is a funny thing to say.
He wants, wants to restore mebecause he actually wants us.
This is a funny thing to say.
He wants us to be happy in him.
For some of us that might notbe a funny thing to hear, but he
wants us to actually be holy,so that we're happy in him, so
that we're delighted in him,we're satisfied by him.
(26:56):
He wants something more for us.
So the invitation then is okay,pause for a second.
I feel anxious about this paperbecause I'm afraid I'm not
actually going to be able to doit right.
And it's going to be.
It's going to show me how muchof a failure I am.
That would actually be a reallife example from my past of
(27:19):
like I'm going to procrastinate,procrastinate, procrastinate,
and by God's grace, somehow Imade it through and I did end up
writing decent enough papers orwhatever.
But it was almost like I wantedto give myself an excuse to say
well, I wrote this thing atfour in the morning, so how good
could it possibly be?
So there's something going on.
And even if I can't get muchfurther than that and I can't
(27:41):
figure out okay, is there awound here, or is there a
maturity issue or what it stillgives me incredible data that
there's more going on thansimply I don't feel good.
I'm going to go act out?
Yeah, anything, you'd fill inwith that example.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
And I would say, I would say it's not wasted in the
fact that you have brought toan awareness that you've taken
it that pause to the point ofthis inner conversation.
If you put it on paper, howeverit might be, you now have this
awareness of the why, thebecause, and so that is not just
(28:17):
going to sit there.
The Lord will continue, youwill circle that mountain until
it's addressed properly, butit's never unknown.
(28:41):
After that, wow, well, I need tobe heard and understood.
So even if you didn't get itout to a friend or anybody else,
but you brought it out into thelight, that is significant, and
so that would be encouraging toany of our participants,
listeners.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, super important first step.
So I'm really excited for nextweek to get into more of the
advanced concepts.
We might get more into thoseseven desires of every heart
first step.
So I'm really excited for nextweek to get into more of the
advanced concepts.
We might get more into thoseseven desires of every heart and
perhaps even some of theboundaries content that you've
incorporated into this and howwe're using this for spiritual
growth, because spiritual growthwith a relational God is
relational.
Relational growth has a lot todo with emotions and so we're
(29:23):
going to keep climbing thisladder.
So I want to give you the lastword in just a moment, but I do
want to just highlight for ourlisteners.
Uh, coming up in the next monthsare our retreats, and we're
super excited to have our secondannual awaken retreat for men
and becoming whole uh sorry inour um sacred by design retreat
for women.
So our awaken retreat, october3rd through 5th you're going to
(29:44):
get to press into your story andhealing prayer and processing
at this kind of level that Sueand I are talking about.
Our retreat theme is known andnamed.
We are known by God and namedby him and Sacred by Design in
November is going to be anawesome place to slow down,
connect deeply with God.
By the way, slowing down is oneof the precursors, like you
said, to having this emotionalawareness what's actually going
(30:07):
on.
It'll be a retreat experiencingbeauty, moving beyond shame and
striving.
So space is limited.
Both these retreats we want toinvite you out.
Hope to see you in person atthese awesome opportunities.
With that, sue, I'd love togive you the last word for today
.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Thank you, well, it's been a pleasure being here.
I love this conversation.
I to give you the last word fortoday.
Thank you, well, it's been apleasure being here.
I love this conversation.
I can't wait to continue it.
But I'd love for your listenersto obviously check out the
Reflective Listening workshopthat we have, but also we will
be starting here soon for thefall Gospel-Centered Sexuality
course that we have for thechurch.
Now, this is for anyone.
This could be parents,caregivers, leaders in the
(30:48):
church, those in recovery.
We will cover a lot of contentand it's on the foundation of
this reflective listeningexercise, because we need
continual cleansingconversations in order to
implement gospel-centeredsexuality.
So I welcome your listeners tojoin us on that course, and all
those courses and resources arefree.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
What an opportunity for our churches to grow in
these ways.
So thank you so much, sue, andI'm looking forward to speaking
with you next week.
At the core of unwanted behavior is the
inability to process negativeemotions.
That's a direct quote from SueMoore, the founder and CEO of
Forgiven Much Ministries and ourguest on Becoming Whole podcast
this week and next week.
Welcome, sue.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
We're going to need to unpack that a lot, and what
we're going to try to do thisweek is Sue and I are going to
walk Sue's going to walk usthrough this week a basic
emotions reflection exercise,because we need help in our
emotional world to overcomesexual sin, and if you're a
betrayed partner or a parent,growing and processing negative
(00:41):
emotions is such a key skill.
If you're a betrayed partner andyou're in the thick of it, you
are dealing with a lot ofnegative emotions.
If you're a parent trying towalk with young kids or
teenagers who maybe are in aprodigal phase, there's a lot of
negative emotions to process,and so I want to go back to that
quote as we get into this Atthe core of unwanted behaviors,
(01:01):
including unwanted sexualbehaviors, is the inability to
process negative emotion, and so, if this is true, then becoming
more emotionally healthy is acrucial foundation for
overcoming unwanted sexualbehaviors, processing through
betrayal and parenting well.
So, sue, what led you in thefirst place to recognize this?
(01:23):
Was it something from your ownjourney or something completely
different?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
No, it started many years ago actually.
Yes, from my own journey,probably at the beginning of
ministry and knowing that I wasstill a work in progress and
seeking the Lord for moreunderstanding as to what was
keeping me from walking in thefullness that the Lord's Word
promised.
And at the beginning it was apulling together of the tools
(01:50):
that I had had at that moment.
I taught boundaries for manyyears, so boundaries was pulled
into this, and then Dr Lacer'swork on the seven desires of
every heart was also pulled intoit.
But that was just at thebeginning for me to be able to
construct, actually followingthe Lord's lead established on
(02:14):
Proverbs 4.23,.
Above all else, guard your heart, for out of it flow the issues
of life, and I would imagineyour listeners as well as myself
with that time.
You know we kind of that's agood verse, we kind of gloss
over it.
You know blah, blah, blah.
Let's guard your heart, butthat's a command to guard and
(02:35):
protect your heart, your mind,will and emotions, for out of it
flow the issues of life and thecourse of my life in my
addiction phases and whatnot wasall over the map because I was
not guarding my heart, I was nottaking responsibility for my
(02:55):
heart, and so that's where itbegan.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So, sue, you kind of alluded I know some of your
story.
We had met a couple of yearsago at a SILS conference and
you've trained our team in thisexercise.
Would you be willing to justshare a little bit of a glimpse
into your story and some of howyour story coalesces around
growing in emotional maturity?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Absolutely yeah.
Recovering recovered female sexand love addict.
Drug addict.
Married a sex addict drugaddict before we ever knew any
of those real terms about sexaddiction, whatever or not.
I was promiscuous and all that.
And then we married.
I knew he had a pornographyaddiction but I thought that I
(03:40):
can't beat him, join him.
And then I was going to beevery woman beat them, join them
.
And then I was going to beevery woman and hang on a second
.
I have to pause this for asecond because I've got some
Spotify music that's coming upin the background.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I thought you were just trying to introduce some
cool background music for yourtest.
It's not for me.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
So let me start that all over again.
So I arranged the loss of myvirginity.
So let me start that all overagain.
So I arranged the loss of myvirginity had drug addiction
issues was introduced to mysoon-to-be husband.
After three months he had apornography addiction.
I pretty much had the can'tbeat him.
Join him, I'll be every woman.
You won't need that.
We wrestled with his addictionfor 10 years, every three to six
(04:24):
months like clockwork.
I always felt like I nevermeasured up.
It was always my problem.
Every man does it.
What's wrong with you?
And so if you, I'm sure you'vegot betrayed spouses that are
listening and oh yeah understandthat, and so I wrestled deeply
with what was wrong with me.
Why was I not enough?
So I had that element of it.
But we were married, um, and Iactually kind of went into a
(04:46):
workaholism kind of performanceissues along the same line, and
then he ended up, um, themarriage imploded.
He offended someone and aboutafter almost 20 years the
marriage imploded and I was asingle mom and I unfortunately
went right back to my acting outbehaviors after the marriage
(05:08):
imploded but, praise be to God,rededicated my life to Christ,
and that would have been in 1999.
And then just became a lover ofthe word and just dug in with
everything I had.
And then, 2007, I went intofull-time ministry and, yeah, a
lot of meat on that bone to talkabout it, but I don't know if
(05:29):
that gives you the introductionof it enough.
Your question was how did I getinto this emotional processing
part?
Well, I didn't really knowabout it, quite frankly, until I
was wanting to get well and waswrestling a lot with
maintaining sobriety andswitching addictions and all of
that.
And so journaling andprocessing helped, seeking the
(05:51):
Lord helped, but, as I hadmentioned earlier, I wanted more
tools, and that's when I hadgone into full-time ministry and
I'd come up under Dr Lacer withLife Recovery and we developed
training and this, that and theother, and I was just pulling
together the exercise for myselfand was using it in the group
(06:11):
that I was leading and it hadbecome polished and practiced
over years and years and yearsand is what it is today because
of all of that use and I use itevery day in some manner or form
.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And I use it every day in some manner or form.
So, sue, is a walking testimonyof so many of the different
challenges that our listenershave gone through.
And, sue, I think that yourstory part of why I wanted our
listeners to hear a bit is thatwe heard the word hope as we
were coming into this today andI think it brings a lot of hope
to know that you could bethrough all the crazy things
(06:46):
you've been through and befollowing Jesus, a lover of him,
his word, and be serving othersin this area.
It's an incredible thing.
So I want to actually get intothe tool in just a moment, the
basic navigating emotionsreflections tool in just a
moment.
But you mentioned how you fellin love with the Bible.
Emotions reflections tool injust a moment.
But you mentioned how you fellin love with the Bible.
(07:06):
There still was some of a gapbetween that and then growing in
emotional maturity.
What's interesting to me, sue,is I read scripture more and
more as I get older.
I'm like man.
There's so much emotion stuffin here, but sometimes we can
kind of miss that or like it canfeel like there's a
disintegration between who theBible tells us to be and kind of
(07:29):
our emotional world.
So as we head into talkingabout the actual tool, did you
see a thread through scriptureLike was scripture actually a
part of you getting in touchwith your emotions, or did you
have to start to realize thatlater that scripture is full of,
you know, very emotional, rawprayers or whatever else?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You know, that's a very good question and I don't
know, as if I, looking back, Iwould have to say no, it was
just simply the drawing of God'sword, and I would go back to
say, yes, the Bible is emotionaland that's because God is
relational and God is first andforemost relational, this Yadah
knowing and becoming known.
We are created in his image andhe is a relational God Father,
(08:11):
son, holy Spirit and we aredrawn to and long for that
relationship and we see that inScripture, in scripture and so,
without really knowing and beingable to put that to words, the
scriptures itself and therelational knowing that happens
(08:31):
when you read the word of godand it reads you and connect
with the lord.
That knowing is what goes.
I don't know what that was, butI want more of that.
It was that kind of a draw thatbegan this relationship with
him.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
That's a beautiful thing.
And so, listeners, if you comefrom a tradition that maybe has
underemphasized the relationalor even the emotional nature of
God and man interacting together, because relationships are
often connected through emotions, right?
So if you've missed that, thisis an invitation today to
recognize that especially.
You see it all throughout thePsalms.
(09:08):
But we're in relationship.
We're made in the image of aGod who is emotional in ways
that are not broken whatsoever.
He's perfectly emotional, youmight say, but he is emotional.
There are emotions that aremeant to connect us to him and
him to us, and so there's aninvitation here, as you're
reading scripture, look out forways that god desires to connect
(09:31):
, loves and has passion andthings like that if I could
interject something here that isreally helpful for some
individuals who may be more umin the logic side of things
about this emotions and notreally.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
On the ministry's website, when you get on the
reflective listening landingpage, there's a plethora of
videos short videos, some longbut these ones are short in
regards to emotions and whatthey are.
Emotions is e motion.
You are attuning to the thingsthat are going on around you.
(10:05):
You are subjectively assessingand perceiving and interpreting
what's going on around you.
So there is a, a label, if youwill, an understanding of that,
what you are seeing, perceivingand interpreting.
So these emotions, the they arefeelings and feelings that rise
(10:27):
to the awareness.
That's what we're grabbing ahold of.
That's a feeling that I have.
It has a label and a name.
Ah, now, once I can label it, Ican name it and I can do
something with it, I acknowledgeit.
Now it's come to the light andso it's helpful because,
depending on your upbringing andmost individuals in fact, I
(10:51):
don't know if I've ever seensomeone come through the
ministry that has had a familythat has taught emotional
resilience from the get-go theyreally wouldn't be in the need
for the ministry because theywould be unable to process all
of this negative emotions thatyou talked about, those core
unwanted sexual behaviors comingout arising out of the
(11:13):
inability to process thosenegative emotions.
So that's why we are actuallygrowing the emotional vocabulary
of people who come into theministry, into this work,
because we usually come in witha very small set of emotions and
if we've been shut down and ifwe've had wounding, we really
got down to a couple I'm fine,I'm good or this sucks.
(11:38):
You know we're just a few andwe don't understand the benefit
of really expanding thatvocabulary.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
So let's get into it, sue.
Sue, if you haven't alreadygleaned this listener, sue is an
incredible resource creatortons of knowledge.
Her website has a ton of toolsfor you.
We're going to dive in firstand foremost into this
reflective listening exercise.
There is a larger workshop, Ithink.
Sue told me that it takes abouttwo hours to go through.
(12:09):
Sue, would that be the liveversion or just watching the
videos?
No, that's live, and actually dothat on the second Tuesday of
every month, february throughNovember this tool presents in
(12:39):
connecting emotions and nottaking our negative emotions
right to sexual sin or or evenif you're a betrayed spouse or a
parent, right toward, you know,spiraling in, in, in.
Yeah, just spiraling, juststruggling to navigate emotion.
So feel free to start whereveryou want.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Sue with introducing this tool all right, um, the
basic and the advanced have thesame foundation in common and
it's the sentence I feel blankabout.
Blank because blank, that's thefoundational sentence and that
is a significant start and Iencourage individuals to
(13:15):
depending on.
And I encourage individuals todepending on.
They may have a model ofemotions they may have.
We often hear from individualsthat they're overwhelmed, and to
me that is categorized as anemotion by itself.
But I don't necessarily like toleave overwhelmed as it is,
because I believe overwhelmed islike a knotted ball that has to
be teased out, with a multitudeof different emotions that are
(13:37):
going on there.
So we need to identify all thefeelings and if again, you need
help, we've got a chart that hasemotions and intensifiers and
they're all over the internet,but we have our own as well and
just start to run down thefeelings that you have about a
(13:58):
particular subject.
Now you may come into this alittle in the middle and go.
I know my subject, I knowthere's something about this
situation that's bothering me,but I don't know all my emotions
.
So you can come in it from thatangle as well, and so you can.
Here's my subject.
What am I feeling about that?
And then we're pausing time,we're slowing down time to sit
(14:20):
with this and acknowledge thatthere's something about me is
feeling uneasy.
I'm feeling something.
What am I feeling?
So you're pausing andreflecting it's inner reflection
on what you are feeling, and Ido want to pause this for a
moment.
If you've got any clinicalpeople that are listening, if
(14:42):
you Googled reflective listening, you will find that there is a
quote unquote tool that is tolisten to other people and then
reflect back what they have said.
This is not what we're doing.
We are doing inner reflectionand there's actually
neuroscience to show how thisinner reflection and sharing it
in relationship bringsresilience and new neural
pathways and maybe we'll getinto that in the next one.
(15:03):
But this is how you renew themind.
But we have to pause.
No-transcript why my body'shaving a reaction.
(15:46):
Well, the reality is is thatyour body has been having a
reaction to that emotion andmany others for a long time in
order for you to get to a stateof actually physically feeling
it, so we can back it up, youknow.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
So one of the clues you mentioned sometimes we don't
know the emotions, sometimes wedon't know the subject, but if
we don't know the emotions, oneof the clues can be what's going
on in my body.
And that's an incredible clue.
If something is going on, thatlikely means it's been going on
more than we realize.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Right, we become conditioned to ignore, to
minimize, to deny and to put itaside.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, so there's that .
I want to press into that inone more way.
If you're listening and you'redealing with unwanted sexual
behaviors, try to think aboutand perhaps you were dealing
with it today or this week.
Try to think about was anythinggoing on in my body about?
And perhaps you were dealingwith it today or this week.
Try to think about was anythinggoing on in my body?
Were any emotions, whether justkind of cognitively, or I
actually felt them in my body?
(16:43):
My shoulders were tight, myneck felt tense, my stomach was
knotted up, like these can bereally helpful signals that
something more is going on, butsoon, if let's just say I do
figure out, okay.
I often hold tension near myneck and my shoulders.
Well, how do I kind of I don'tknow unpack that or figure out
(17:04):
what that really means?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
That's great.
Absolutely.
That is a symptom, if you will.
As well as clenching your hands, holding the elbow up, I mean
just interesting body postures.
As I've been learning this,I've been paying attention more
to my posture and my bodybecause it teaches a lot.
So once you recognize I've gotsomething going on, what is this
(17:27):
?
So that's your sentence.
I feel blank about blank,because you're starting to
freeze frame time and I'mthinking of and this had
happened to me many years agoand I use this example a lot is,
I was standing in a grocerystore and in the checkout or
near the checkout, and I feltjust a complete anxiety in my
(17:50):
body.
It was like my head, I hadelectricity, you know, just run
and I'm going, what is go, whatis this?
And I, okay, I feel anxiousabout and I started teasing.
I don't remember the situationat this point.
I could put in a multitude ofthem, but about a scenario,
because and I start assessingand then we can start unpacking
(18:12):
and the more you learn theexercise, you can go into your
basic needs I need to be heardand understood, I need to be
affirmed, I need to be blessed,I need to be safe, touched,
chosen, included, and those areall within the basic exercise.
And then the last step of thatis to what are my next steps to
get that meat met in healthyways?
(18:33):
Now, you're not going to be ableto rattle that off in the
grocery store just by listeningto the podcast.
I would love for you to, maybe,and by the Spirit of the Living
God you can, but you will alsoneed to learn to press, pause
and tolerate the anxiety of themoment and write this stuff down
(18:53):
.
Stuff down, because that'swhere the inner healing comes,
is that's when you invite theHoly Spirit in and that's when
he can start helping you tounderstand what this is about.
I would say this too is that wealso have, usually this.
This is about me being late forwork.
I have these feelings I'mrushing through traffic because
(19:17):
I am late for work and yep, thatfits.
But there's also most likely,something that's underneath that
.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Is that where the because comes in?
Because blank.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It can be.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It can be.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, I feel anxious about being late for work
because I stayed up too latelast night.
And you can fill in a multitudeof reasons and then you just
begin in the processing of that.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah.
So if you're going to anunwanted sexual behavior, part
of what's happening isautomatically you might feel
anxious or sad or ashamed or awhole variety of negative
emotions.
And without pausing long enoughto realize what's going on and
tolerating the negative emotion,what we're often doing is we're
taking it right to our sexualbehaviors and so what Sue's
(20:15):
inviting us to is so, so, sopractical Pause, notice, grow in
toleration.
Like I can handle this.
I will not die from thisfeeling of anxiety or I know
sometimes that can feel likedeath, especially if there's a
panic attack but recognizinggrowing intolerance and growing
in vocab, growing in awareness.
One of the other things that Ioften use with clients, sue and
I got this straight from you isyou just referenced it really
(20:38):
briefly, well, twice today sevendesires of every heart.
So you said this is from Markand Deborah Laser, who were kind
of pioneers in the Christianaddiction recovery, sexual
addiction recovery world, as faras I know, and they have these
seven core needs or desires thatevery heart has.
I love using this with clientsbecause so many of them are like
, especially if you're the typewho's like hey, I've had a
(21:01):
pretty good childhood, I don'thave any massive trauma.
I love pulling this out not tosay, hey, look, you've got
trauma, you just didn't noticeit, but just to say, look, none
of our parents were perfect andthese seven needs were not
perfectly met by any of ourparents.
So, sue, can we unpack thatbriefly, the seven desires of
every heart, and then alsoexplain more of where that fits
(21:22):
into the basic exercise, thebasic sentence.
I feel blank about blankbecause blank the basic exercise
, the basic sentence.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I feel blank about blank because blank, yeah, and
actually for the basic exercise,understanding for the
participant is going to be, forthe lack of a better term, more
surfacy understanding, more ofcolloquially, what you would
understand, for you heard andunderstood.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I need to be affirmed Basic definitely Okay.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, because if what ends up happening?
If you go deeper than that intowhat LACER is doing, you're
going to send a person into theadvanced, which is good which
we're going to get to next week.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah, looking forward to that.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
But these unmet needs , even if let's just say we're
talking with someone who's gotthese unwanted sexual behaviors
and they're acknowledging okay,I do, I've got this, I'm feeling
a physiological, I'm carryingsomething, I'm carrying anxiety,
I'm carrying fear, I'm carryingsomething and can I fit an
(22:24):
about in here and can I put in abecause and do I?
Can I fit an about in here andcan I put in a because and and
then doing that real?
Basically, then, looking atjust by the surface level of the
understanding, do I need to beheard and understood about
feelings and needs and what.
I need to be affirmed, then I'mokay that I, you know, I'm, I'm,
I'm all right.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
That's kind of where the next step can come in.
You mentioned that you often.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, because you're going to want in the next step.
So in here, james, is aconversation that needs to be
said, because it's kind ofunspoken and it fleshes itself
out without too much time is whyam I doing this?
Yeah, why am I doing this?
(23:10):
Yeah, why?
Why am I not wanting tocontinue in this addictive
behavior or these unhealthycoping methods, or whatever it
is that I'm doing?
Why do I want to pause andtolerate this stupid anxiety?
You know, seems like a dumbidea.
I don't want it.
I don't want you know I wantrelief.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
I don't want to sit, sit in this.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I had this discussion with the Lord many times, a
long time ago.
But the reality is is a personwill stay in a wrestling with
that addictive behavior, thatcoping method, whatever that is,
the tolerating of anxiety, justkeeping that going until and
unless they have a vision ofwhere they're going.
(23:46):
It is necessary for us and thisis where the hope comes in,
this is where it has to come inis that confident expectation of
goodness that God doesn't wasteanything.
No matter how many stupiddecisions that I have made and
I've made plenty of them he'susing and has used every one of
(24:06):
them to glorify his name.
And so, for your people who arelistening for this, why do I
want to press pause and figurethis out in the first place?
It's because there has to be adesire and a belief that there's
something else.
There's something more for meto experience out of life than
(24:29):
what I'm experiencing now.
I've got this part down.
I can go down here blindfolded,I can go into my acting out, I
can do all this Medicaid.
I don't even need instruction.
I've got that one covered.
And I'm not even truly I don'tknow convinced if there's
another option out here.
So, in tandem with this,emotional resilience, learning,
is this desire to discover allthat is available to me as a
(24:57):
body imager of the most high Godof all of those things.
And when we do that, weunderstand that there are a lot
of taunting voices inside ourheads that are saying a lot of
different things, from family,of origin on up, about why that
would not be true.
And so those are surfaced,those tauntings.
(25:23):
They can be from flesh andblood, but we also know the
tauntings of the adversary.
That's just a constant.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
But those things are surfaced as we do this
reflective listening, even thebasic, uh, even more so and more
intentionally with the advanced, because then they're targeted
with scripture or spiritualmaturity so let me just try to
imagine an example, sue, just tomake this super concrete for
(25:50):
those who are trying to gettheir heads around it,
especially if you're listening.
We actually, if you're watchingon YouTube, we have not shown
any visuals, so the listenersare not missing a visual right
now, but it'd be a good idea tolook this up so you can see it
if you're more of a visuallearner.
But I can just imagine, sue.
Let me just think of an examplefrom my past.
(26:13):
I'm at school, I'mprocrastinating on a paper, and
this could be for someone inwork as well.
So if I go the automatic pathof, okay, I'm going to just
procrastinate, I'm overwhelmed,I'm just going to go to sexual
sin.
That's going to keep me stuck.
That's seeking relief.
As we say it in Awaken 360,literally this week we're
recording our lesson topic.
This is our men's recoverygroup.
Our lesson topic wasrestoration over relief, and so
(26:35):
if I go the relief route, it'sthe same path I've always been
down, but God, like you'rehighlighting in his mercy,
actually wants to restore mebecause he actually wants us.
This is a funny thing to say.
He wants, wants to restore mebecause he actually wants us.
This is a funny thing to say.
He wants us to be happy in him.
For some of us that might notbe a funny thing to hear, but he
wants us to actually be holy,so that we're happy in him, so
that we're delighted in him,we're satisfied by him.
(26:56):
He wants something more for us.
So the invitation then is okay,pause for a second.
I feel anxious about this paperbecause I'm afraid I'm not
actually going to be able to doit right.
And it's going to be.
It's going to show me how muchof a failure I am.
That would actually be a reallife example from my past of
(27:19):
like I'm going to procrastinate,procrastinate, procrastinate,
and by God's grace, somehow Imade it through and I did end up
writing decent enough papers orwhatever.
But it was almost like I wantedto give myself an excuse to say
well, I wrote this thing atfour in the morning, so how good
could it possibly be?
So there's something going on.
And even if I can't get muchfurther than that and I can't
(27:41):
figure out okay, is there awound here, or is there a
maturity issue or what it stillgives me incredible data that
there's more going on thansimply I don't feel good.
I'm going to go act out?
Yeah, anything, you'd fill inwith that example.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
And I would say, I would say it's not wasted in the
fact that you have brought toan awareness that you've taken
it that pause to the point ofthis inner conversation.
If you put it on paper, howeverit might be, you now have this
awareness of the why, thebecause, and so that is not just
(28:17):
going to sit there.
The Lord will continue, youwill circle that mountain until
it's addressed properly, butit's never unknown.
(28:41):
After that, wow, well, I need tobe heard and understood.
So even if you didn't get itout to a friend or anybody else,
but you brought it out into thelight, that is significant, and
so that would be encouraging toany of our participants,
listeners.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, super important first step.
So I'm really excited for nextweek to get into more of the
advanced concepts.
We might get more into thoseseven desires of every heart
first step.
So I'm really excited for nextweek to get into more of the
advanced concepts.
We might get more into thoseseven desires of every heart and
perhaps even some of theboundaries content that you've
incorporated into this and howwe're using this for spiritual
growth, because spiritual growthwith a relational God is
relational.
Relational growth has a lot todo with emotions and so we're
(29:23):
going to keep climbing thisladder.
So I want to give you the lastword in just a moment, but I do
want to just highlight for ourlisteners.
Uh, coming up in the next monthsare our retreats, and we're
super excited to have our secondannual awaken retreat for men
and becoming whole uh sorry inour um sacred by design retreat
for women.
So our awaken retreat, october3rd through 5th you're going to
(29:44):
get to press into your story andhealing prayer and processing
at this kind of level that Sueand I are talking about.
Our retreat theme is known andnamed.
We are known by God and namedby him and Sacred by Design in
November is going to be anawesome place to slow down,
connect deeply with God.
By the way, slowing down is oneof the precursors, like you
said, to having this emotionalawareness what's actually going
(30:07):
on.
It'll be a retreat experiencingbeauty, moving beyond shame and
striving.
So space is limited.
Both these retreats we want toinvite you out.
Hope to see you in person atthese awesome opportunities.
With that, sue, I'd love togive you the last word for today
.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Thank you, well, it's been a pleasure being here.
I love this conversation.
I to give you the last word fortoday.
Thank you, well, it's been apleasure being here.
I love this conversation.
I can't wait to continue it.
But I'd love for your listenersto obviously check out the
Reflective Listening workshopthat we have, but also we will
be starting here soon for thefall Gospel-Centered Sexuality
course that we have for thechurch.
Now, this is for anyone.
This could be parents,caregivers, leaders in the
(30:48):
church, those in recovery.
We will cover a lot of contentand it's on the foundation of
this reflective listeningexercise, because we need
continual cleansingconversations in order to
implement gospel-centeredsexuality.
So I welcome your listeners tojoin us on that course, and all
those courses and resources arefree.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
What an opportunity for our churches to grow in
these ways.
So thank you so much, sue, andI'm looking forward to speaking
with you next week.
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