Sexual Wholeness for the Family

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What kind of legacy are you leaving in your home? For many men, this question cuts deep. They're physically present but emotionally absent—buried in work, numbed by addiction, or simply disconnected from their own hearts. Meanwhile, their families feel the void: wives longing for connection and children navigating life without the emotional safety they desperately need.

In this powerful conversation, Aaron Tagert sits down with Joel Warneking, Executive Director of 423 Communities, who shares his journey from sexual addiction to wholeness. Joel's story follows a familiar pattern—childhood exposure to pornography that developed into a full-blown addiction lasting through Bible college and ministry positions. Living a double life of public ministry and private shame eventually led to a breaking point that became his pathway to healing.

The heart of this episode explores how men's healing transforms entire family systems. When fathers engage with their own emotional wounds and develop sexual competency, they create safe spaces where rupture and repair can happen naturally. Joel explains how understanding our physiological responses to stress—what happens in our bodies when we feel triggered—allows us to respond thoughtfully rather than reactively to our spouses and children.

Perhaps most powerful is the discussion about parenting teens through sexual development. Before parents can effectively guide their children through conversations about sexuality, they must first do their own work. Creating an emotionally safe home where children can bring their struggles without shame becomes the foundation for healing across generations.

Whether you're struggling with your own unwanted sexual behaviors, trying to build a healthier family system, or wanting to guide your children through today's hypersexualized culture, this episode offers both hope and practical wisdom. The journey begins with allowing yourself to be fully known so you can be fully loved—by God, others, and even yourself.

Resources:

• 423 Communities  
• Awaken Retreat 
• Sacred By Design Retreat
• Treading Boldly

For more information or to join click one of the links below.

Manna - Men seeking freedom from unwanted sexual behavior, temptation, and shame.

Oasis - Women seeking freedom from unwanted sexual behavior, temptation, and shame.

Compass - Wives seeking healing from betrayal and broken trust.

Awaken Men's Retreat 2025 - Register Today!

Sacred By Design Women's Retreat 2025 - Register Today!

Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole

👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey friends, welcome in to today's episode on the
Becoming Whole podcast.
My name is Aaron Taggart andI'm one of our spiritual coaches
at Regeneration.
Let me ask you a question whatkind of legacy are you leaving
in your home?
For some of us that questionstings Because deep down we know

(00:21):
we're physically present butemotionally absent.
Maybe we've been living shutdown, buried in work or numbing
out in addiction and while we'restuck, our families feel the
void A wife longing forconnection, kids navigating life
without the emotional safetyand leadership they were meant

(00:43):
to have.
But here's the hope we canrestore, sorry.
God can restore the heart ofman.
He can awaken you to your story, heal the broken parts and grow
in you the capacity to leadwith love, strength and humility

(01:05):
.
Today I have the privilege ofsitting down with my friend Joel
Warnicking, the ExecutiveDirector of 423 Communities,
which is a Christ-centeredrecovery ministry helping men,
women and teens break free fromsexual brokenness and grow into
emotional, spiritual andrelational wholeness.

(01:26):
Through safe, structured groups, biblically grounded curriculum
and honest community, theyguide people from isolation and
shame to restored intimacy withGod, healthy relationships and
renewed family life.
Joel, it is an absolute joy ofmine to have you on the show

(01:47):
today.
Welcome to Becoming Wholebrother.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Aaron.
Thank you so much, brother.
I think that's one of the joysof my entire week to be called
your friend.
So thank you for welcoming meinto this space.
It's such a joy.
We've had opportunity over thelast year to rub shoulders and
work in arms and helping menfind wholeness and healing.
And, brother, you are a brotherand I am so honored to be with

(02:14):
you today.
Just seeing you makes me smile.
And man your mission statement.
I think that's even better thanmine, so I should just adopt
that for our ministry here onthe spot.
Brother, thank you for thegracious intro for who we are
and what we do.
It's great to be here with you.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, likewise brother.
Yeah, it is such a joy to callyou brother.
So thank you for joining ustoday and I'm really excited for
what we have in store for ourlisteners.
So with that, let's dive in.
So with that, let's dive in.
So I'd love you know.
I know, joel, a lot of ourlisteners, you know, probably

(02:50):
aren't familiar with you, andespecially the work that you
guys do at 423 Community.
So, as we start out today,could you just share a little
bit more about yourself andespecially the great work that
you guys are doing with men,women and teens over at 423?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
I found my own recovery through423 about 12 years ago.
Just by the grace of Godhappened to find this ministry
founded in Portland, oregon.
We've been around for about 20years or so.
We were founded by John MarkComer out of Westside Salt Rock
Church in Beaverton Oregon byJohn Mark Comer out of Westside

(03:26):
Salt Rock Church in BeavertonOregon out of a response from
the local church.
And so John Mark, as a pastor,was seeing just man after man
and couple after couple comethrough the prayer room,
desperate for support frompornography addiction and just
the cataclysmic effect that itcan have on the family system,
and he said we've got to dosomething.
So Dave Scriven, our founder,was a member at Solid Rock with

(03:49):
John Mark and he said Dave,you're a recovery guy.
What do we do?
John Mark said you should starta men's program, call it 423
Men, which comes from Proverbs423, which is guard your heart
with all diligence, for from itflow springs of life.
And it's just this, this modelfor us that we are beset by so

(04:11):
many things in this broken worldthat seeks to tear us apart.
At the very fabric of ourbeings, the core of our identity
is being destroyed.
And so for four to three men atthat time, when it was, was
just a call for men to learn howto know how to protect their
heart.
Where is their heart?
First you have to identifywhere your heart is so that you

(04:33):
can learn to identify it.
And through the lens of healthysexuality, 423 Communities was
born, was born In that church.
At one time there were hundredsof men and women and teens that
were going through programsspecifically designed for sexual
addiction reparation andhealing, spousal betrayal repair

(04:54):
for men, women and teens.
And then the local church beganto see the effect that 423 was
having in Solid Rock and saidhey, what are you doing?
We want some of that too, andso our mission to equip
literally every church in theworld that we can get our hands
on with a healthy recoverycommunity to find hope, healing

(05:15):
and restoration from the impactsof problematic sexual behaviors
and addictions was born.
And so from that day we've beenexpanding across the country
into a few other countries atthis point, where we are
partnering with the local churchto help create a healthy
recovery community, not justsimply, hey, here's a curriculum

(05:37):
, here's a book, here's a guide,go do it yourself, but where we
walk hand in hand with pastorsin churches and leaders all
around the world to create whatis a healthy community in which
people can find health, life andrestoration.
For me, my five-minute story orless is you know every guy that

(05:59):
I've done an intake withthousands of guys at this point
the story is almost always thesame and mine falls right in
line with that that around theages of six to 12, mine was
right around eight years old Istumbled across my first
explicit material and it wasamidst my family's divorce, so
turbulent time in my familysystem.

(06:19):
I just happened across thismagazine in an abandoned barn
near our home.
It's like an awful scene from amovie right where the kid
stumbles across this treasuretrove of curiosity in this
foreign place.
And for me it was the placethat I would go to run away from
the chaos of home that I wouldseek to escape, that I would

(06:40):
seek to avoid the discomfort ofa family system that was falling
apart.
I would seek to avoid thediscomfort of a family system
that was falling apart, andlittle did I know at that time
that this innocent, at that time, curiosity towards this
material was training me todevelop a full-blown compulsive
addiction to sexual behavior andacting out when, through grade

(07:02):
school and junior high and highschool, into Bible college, into
full-time itinerant ministry.
I was traveling the world on arecord label, preaching,
teaching, doing music on staffat churches, doing ministry, and
yet I had almost a dailycompulsive addiction to
pornography and masturbation,living that double life and

(07:23):
saying the mantras that everyaddict knows.
Which is tomorrow will bedifferent?
I can take this, just me andJesus.
We got this Holy Spirit.
Let tomorrow be a different day.
And yet I found myself back inthat same trough again the next
morning.
For me, it really turned thecorner when a pastor came to our

(07:44):
church and he preached amessage, one that's very
familiar today, but he said youwill never be fully loved in any
capacity until you are fullyknown.
You're only loved to thecapacity of which you are known.
And I realized that moment thatI had isolated myself from
others, from God, from my wife,even from myself of being able
to honestly look into the mirror.

(08:06):
And then the heartbreakingreality was that, therefore, I
was completely unloved by anyone, didn't even love myself at
that point, and so I disclosedto my wife in a haphazard,
shambled disclosure of this isout of control and I don't know
what to do and I'm terrified ofthis is out of control and I

(08:27):
don't know what to do and I'mterrified.
We approached our church atthat time and the response was
wait, who's looking at PornhubChurch?
We need to find them so we canfire them, because we can't have
any sin in the camp.
And so I danced out of the roomand said I'll go find that guy,
that bad guy, and I'll bringhim back and we can get him
together.
That bad guy and I'll bring himback and we can get him

(08:47):
together.
And so that that moment justkind of drove my wife and I into
deeper isolation and where wejust tried to police and you
know, we shut down the computersand the phone and take the cord
to the TV and just tried towhite knuckle our way through a
compulsive addiction to thisincredibly pervasive behavior
that is pornography addiction.
About three weeks later intothis white knuckling compression

(09:10):
of my life, I found anotheropportunity to engage in sexual
behavior While riding my bike,like I did for exercise.
I felt arousal and my brainexploded with hey, this is where
you can get your drug, you'renot doing anything, the whole
thoughts of an addict.
And so I would go out and ridemy bike and allow myself to be a

(09:32):
bit exposed and get that sexualhit that I was so craving in
that moment, and then would goback to being the dismayed idiot
of what are you doing?
Why can't you just stop doingthese bad things A few times
into doing that?
About a week later, there was apolice man waiting for me and I
was arrested for indecentexposure while on staff at a

(09:54):
church.
My name was on the local newsbroadcast all over, and that was
when my life ended and my storyof new birth and new life began
.
It was sitting in a jail cell,panicked from knowing what was
going on outside those doors,that I heard that still gentle

(10:15):
voice that I had heard as a kidwhen I accepted Christ, and it
was the voice of the Father.
And for me it was not what Iexpected of the Father, and for
me it was not what I expected.
I expected an angry dad who wasenraged that I had defamed the
gospel, that I had defamed thename of Jesus, that I had been
another poor example of afollower of Christ, that I was a

(10:37):
hypocrite, of which I was, andyet it was the voice of a
tearfully joyful father who wasso pleased that I could finally
see that he was closer than Icould possibly fathom, that
while I was in the depths of mysin he was nearer to me than I
could even imagine, and so forme that was the beginning of my

(10:59):
journey towards recovery.
I found 423 right in the midstof that, flat on my face, as a
full-blown compulsive addict,not knowing heads to tails of my
shame and identity.
But for me it was the placewhere I could come every week
and experience that same love ofGod through the presence and
love of my brothers.

(11:20):
That when I brought my dirty,shamed self into the room with a
group of other men, eight to 10men, and sat with them for two
hours and shared the depths ofmy soul, the depths of my
identity and all of mywoundedness, and was loved with
that passion and that joy andthat embodied presence of God
himself in that room, oh my gosh, like that completely just

(11:44):
lifted my soul.
It really gave me thefoundation to move forward in
health and found restoration andsobriety and healing, not only
for myself but for my wife and I.
She has developed our BetrayedPartner Program.
She gets to walk with women allover the world through her
support groups that she'swritten curriculum for helping

(12:06):
them find their own health,stability and wellness through
their husband's betrayal.
Now together we get to run 423,me as the executive director,
her as the woman's director,although she's on the board, so
she says that she's my boss, buthey, she loves that fact.
She says that she's my boss,but hey, you know, she loves

(12:27):
that fact.
And yeah, we get the immensepleasure now to take that same
message of hope that I receivedall those years ago, following
after Dave Scriven and John Mark, helping men, women, betrayed
partners, teens, collegestudents, parents find hope,
health and healing, not justfrom ending bad sexual behavior

(12:47):
but truly and wholly findingemotional and spiritual wellness
in which they can begin to livethe life that God created them
for.
So, brother, yeah, it's anhonor to be in this work and
getting to walk alongside menall over the world as they seek
to find that.
And I think that's what I loveso much about my time with you,

(13:09):
aaron, and my time withRegeneration folks is I feel
like there is such anunderstanding of how much need
there is to not just approachsobriety.
I call it Christianwhack-a-mole, right, a lot of
recovery groups is you walk inthe door and everyone's like
holding their, their big Bibleand they're like what'd you do

(13:29):
wrong?
You're like I failed andthey're like whack, and they get
a, hit you on the head with theBible until you stop doing bad
things.
But to truly embrace the pathof wholeness, of holistic
healing, where you areapproaching the heart, the mind,
the body, the soul, andbringing that into a place of

(13:52):
restoration, not just simplyending bad sexual behaviors, is
one of the reasons I lovespending time with you all and
is really, I believe, the cruxof how we approach recovery with
men as we move forward in thisspace.
Yeah, yeah, I believe the cruxof how we approach recovery with
men as we move forward in thisspace.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, yeah, gosh man, thank you for, thank you for
sharing all that with me and ourlisteners.
I mean love, the transparencyof your vulnerability, I mean,
you know, in this work, likethat's pretty paramount to to,
you know, healing, and the morethat we share in in safe spaces
not in the Bible thumpingwhack-a-mole spaces, but in safe

(14:30):
spaces the more we share, themore power, um, uh, that the
shame, uh, it's lost.
Uh, it loses that power.
Uh, slowly, over time, right,and so, and then just even like
you know I'm, I'm sitting hereprocessing how four to three
communities started, startedwith men and it's morphed into

(14:54):
more than that, which isbeautiful.
But some of our conversationtoday is going to kind of be
this progression and talkingthrough what happens in a family
.
We're talking about men, whathappens in a family when things
begin to change for that dad,for that husband and so sort of.

(15:14):
Our kind of arc for today iswe're going to go through this
journey of becoming aware of ourown story, building an
emotional, healthy family systemand growing in sexual
competency and spirituallygrounded parenting so that you
can truly care for and guideyour children and you know the
things that you were just kindof mentioning, really begin to

(15:35):
get into that.
So I love that.
That's kind of where it started, because you know I take a step
back and you know there's a lotof things floating around about
masculinity and this is toxicor that's this, and what is it
mean to be a man today?
And you know, ultimately we canlook at Jesus's life uh, what
it means to be a man, uh, how tointeract with people.

(15:57):
Um, you mentioned your inabilityto love yourself and then to
love others.
I think about what does Jesustell us?
The most important thing is tolove God with all your heart,
soul, mind and strength.
And the second is, like that,to love others as you love
yourself.
And for listeners today whomaybe struggle with that same

(16:19):
thing loving themselves, findingthemselves in those places of
despair and addiction and youknow, don't know, maybe, what's
going on, you know in their ownstories.
That's that's why it's soimportant to grow in that sort
of awareness you know of, of ourown stories, and so, with that,

(16:39):
let's go ahead and jump in.
Yeah, you know thinking about,you know, emotional awareness in
particular.
And why do you believe thatemotional awareness and growth
are essential for a man to trulylead his family beyond just
providing or being present.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, absolutely, you know, we teach, we teach
recovery from sexual addictionthrough two components, right?
One, I think is the mostprominent, which is that there
is this powerful dopamigeniccycle in the brain and the body
and it takes over the rewardsystem and it creates this
addictive process that takesover the whole body.

(17:19):
Right, it's this compulsivecomponent and that's what you're
trying to gain sobriety from.
Is this addictive process.
And so many guys will focus onsimply getting to behavioral
sobriety as a metric for health,as a metric for emotional
health, and yet they don'trealize that the second
component that we see throughsexual addiction, problematic

(17:41):
sexual behaviors, is what I calljust the compulsion away from
internalized pain and there hasto be a simplified version of
that, someone needs to give itto me but that there is inside
of us so many beautifulGod-given characteristics of
what it means to be made in theimage of God, where we have

(18:03):
those desires to be loved and tobe seen and to be safe and to
be nurtured and to have healthyphysical touch and to be wanted
and just all of the things thatmake us relational beings.
And yet, because of the brokenworld that we exist in, because
of the nature of humans andbroken family systems.
You see that these emotionalplaces, when they are broken and

(18:27):
they will be broken even if youhave an healthy, engaged family
system you're going to come outwith attachment wounds.
You're going to come out with adysregulated sense of self
where your belief about yourselfis that you are unwanted, that
you are undesirable, that youare not safe to be touched.
And if those places inside ofour emotional self are not

(18:52):
approached with kindness andcuriosity and community, those
all have ka-ka-ka sounds.
I love that If you don'tapproach those things with that
kindness and compassion andcommunity and curiosity, those
places of emotional awarenesswill never allow you to actually

(19:13):
integrate in a healthy way withothers.
I love that.
You said that's.
You know, we're called to loveGod with all your heart, mind,
soul and strength and loveothers as yourself.
Every day, when we send ourgirls off to school, we have
this little conversation in thecar and we say what are the
three things today?
And they go love God, loveothers and love yourself.

(19:34):
And for them?
Oh, it makes me cry, I almostgot.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Three kids one's on the way, I'm going for four, so
we're excited.
Kids One's on the way, I'mgoing for four, so we're excited
and really for them.
It's a way for us to teach themthat if you don't love yourself
and I think, going back to whatyou said if you don't know how
to love those deep, complex,wounded places in your own story
, you're not going to be able tolove others in the same way

(20:01):
that you love yourself, able tolove others in the same way that
you love yourself.
And so teaching men that,realistically, growth through
your sexuality is emotionalhealth, is emotional awareness,
is understanding those complexplaces in their being so that
they can engage their wife, sothat they can engage their kids,

(20:22):
so that they can lead inside oftheir communities, beyond just
being a physical force, right,actually being someone who is
present and engaged and attunedto what is going on in the
system.
And so, yeah, I think it's oneof the most important aspects
for a man to do this journey isreally engaging in those areas

(20:45):
as well.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, yeah, right.
And so when a man is sort ofmaybe avoiding his own story,
maybe he's not sure even how toenter into that, or he's
refusing to engage emotionally,we know that that impacts his
wife, wife, his children and itimpacts the family as a whole.

(21:07):
How, in your experience, howhave you seen that sort of play
out in some of the men that thatyou guys have worked with?

Speaker 2 (21:16):
yeah, I mean, I even think of my own experience right
of um.
You know, when you carry those,when you carry those, um, those
emotional wounds in your ownstory, when you have a story
that has been unprocessed, youknow, inside of 423, we teach a
lot of internal family systems.
We teach inner child recoveryfrom Eddie Caparucci.

(21:37):
And so there's this language ofthis exile, there's this
language of this wounded innerchild, this exile.
There's this language of thiswounded inner child and those
parts of us, those parts thatcarry the stories of our past,
that part of me that carriesthis you are unwanted, you are
unneeded, you are undesirable.
When I carry that wounded,unmitigated story into the

(22:00):
relationships with others, I amconstantly on the defense,
pushing people away frompotentially being wounded.
Right, like your spouse, yourkids, like they have such a
unique ability to wound thosedeepest parts of us.
Right, if you enter intomarriage and you are not in a

(22:20):
healthy place, your spouse ispoking every single insecurity
because there's no place for youto hide.
And so what happens when afather avoids his own story and
refuses to engage emotionallywith his family?
It leaves his wife without asafe place to build relationship

(22:42):
.
It leaves a marriage withoutintimacy.
It leaves children without ahealthy role model to teach them
how to regulate.
That's one of our jobs asadults is to teach children how
to regulate through thecomplexities of life.
And yet when you have anunhealed story, it's as if that

(23:04):
part of you is still a seven,eight-year-old boy trying to
navigate the complexities oflife.
And so I would say that, for afamily as a whole, the most
important aspect of a familysystem is an emotionally healthy
and whole man who can lead hisfamily well, man who can lead

(23:29):
his family well and I thinkthat's why this work that we're
doing is so important to thisspace is to help men find the
ways to become emotionally whole.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, yeah, and I think, especially in that role
as father, I've reallyappreciated John Tyson and his
work on fatherhood and manhood,and he has a book called the
Intentional Father and heidentifies early on in the first

(23:55):
chapter that there are fivetypes of dads.
There's five types of fathersthere's an irresponsible father,
there's an ignorant father, aninconsistent father, an involved
father and then the intentionalfather.
And that word intentional, Ithink, is just so encompassing

(24:17):
of a lot of the work that we dowith men is trying to you know
you don't just, you know findhealing and transformation in
sexual addiction and brokennesson a whim.
You know you have to beintentional, and so this is work
that needs to be bothintentional for yourself but

(24:40):
then allows you to intentionallyshow up in different ways for
your family, for your spouse,for your kids.
It really, you know, that's theintentionality I think, is like
really what brings um theopportunity for that
transformation and change in inthe home.
But it's gotta that and likeyou really have to be

(25:03):
intentional about it becausethere's there's a lot of things
that you can do and it can beoverwhelming, but um, you just
one step at a time and I think,I think some of the things that
keep us from being intentional,right, the things that keep us
from doing the things that wedon't want to do, right.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
um, you know we see paul talk about this in
scripture of that there arethese deceitful desires at work
within our members that keep usfrom doing the things that we
want to do.
And so I see that even in myown story of like.
I so wanted to engage my wifein relational and emotional
intimacy.
I so wanted to.
When she brought a conflict tome, I wanted to be able to

(25:43):
respond in kindness and in loveand in patience and in long
suffering, and my greatest joyis to serve and love you, honey.
And yet what came out of me waseither complete, numbed
disassociation and shut down, orwhat came out of me when that
got provoked and poked was rageand anger and don't come close

(26:05):
to me because you're going tosee my brokenness and it was
just this violent internaldialogue that kept me from doing
the things that I wanted to do.
One of the things that we teachour men is the window of
tolerance, right.
We teach through polyvagaltheory and I don't think most

(26:25):
men know that so much aboutbecoming emotionally present is
also about engaging our bodieswell is learning how to regulate
and become a grounded presenceand recognize when we are being
taken over by our body'sresponse to perceived threat.
Right when my wife, who is um,who is a lovely, albeit not

(26:49):
gentle woman, she's very, youknow, fact forward and fiery and
I love it, but we can buttheads for sure when she steps
into the room with conflict andshe needs me to rise up and be
an intentional presence in theroom to help manage and navigate
through conflict, and yet I amso physically torn asunder by my

(27:11):
body's response to stress, I amincapable of doing the things
that I want to do inside of thatrelationship.
And so I think some practicalfirst steps that a guy can take
as he's trying to figure out howto begin growing emotionally
right, especially if he feelsshut down or disconnected from
relationship, is really learn topay attention to his body.

(27:33):
Right, like when, when youenter into conflict, when you
enter into relational conflict,man, do you feel your, your,
your blood pressure rising andyou know the heat coming to your
face and your brain goingoffline and you're like why am I
about ready to fight my wife?
For no reason.
There's no reason for me to notbe this engaged presence, or

(27:56):
when your children and I have alot of them now, you know when
they're constantly pecking andpoking and asking the same
questions.
You know why is there fireraising up to the back of my
neck and taking over my being,when an intentional father, and
what my deepest heart's desirewould be would be to get on the
ground with them and love them,look them in the eye and

(28:17):
encourage them and pick them upand be this loving, intentional
presence.
If you have that dysregulatedbody and you're disconnected
from being able to be present,you are literally incapable of
being a present.
You know intentional father inthe room, and I think so many
men are just so not attuned towhat is going on physically

(28:41):
inside of their bodies that itkeeps them from being who
they're called to be as men aswell, that it keeps them from
being who they're called to be,as men as well.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, yeah, we've done.
I've got four kids, so I'm veryfamiliar with what you're.
Yeah, just wait, buddy.
No, they're great.
I love my kids, but Iexperienced that from time to
time too and, honestly, what Ihave grown in awareness of over
the years and as I've gottenhealthier just even being able

(29:09):
to realize in me right now, um,I can show up differently

(29:31):
because I begin to realize thatthis isn't even about the
frustrations I might have withmy kids at that time, there's
actually something deep withinmy story that I'm being reminded
of Um and that can just reallypiss me off, um and I, and that
comes out sideways.
And so I you know this is justan encouragement for for all of

(29:54):
us and then those listening thatthat might resonate that the
more we can create these sort ofbuffer moments in our
interactions to to groundourselves emotionally, and it
doesn't.
It doesn't need to be a longtime, you know, just a little
pause, a little question andthen begin to enter in fully

(30:15):
present, into that moment, canreally transform, can really
transform that outcome and howwe show up.
But again, there it comes backto sort of some of that
intentionality and and andlearning and growing in that, so
that you can implement that inin those moments.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah, and I think one of the one of the best ways to
really cultivate an awareness ofyourself and your story is
through the context of community.
Right?
I think Kurt Thompson has aphrase that I see myself more
clearly when I see myselfthrough your eyes.
I think one of the things thatI've seen working with men is
that a lot of men don't know howthey're showing up in a room,

(30:56):
they don't know how they'reshowing up emotionally, they
don't know how they're becomingpresent in relationship.
And when you can do this workinside of the context of a
community and sit with other menand have a safe, loving people
that look at you and know youand walk with you, it really can
open up the doors to you toengage your own story.

(31:19):
Right, because those unhealedparts of our story, they will
always come out inside ofrelationships.
Right, that wounding that youcarry from your father, right,
that wounding that you carryfrom your first girlfriend, or
the first friend group that younever fit into, or the sport
team that you never got pickedfor, those emotional wounds you

(31:42):
carry them in a powerful way andthey will be unleashed on those
who you are in relationshipwith unless you become aware of
them and begin to approach themto provide healing for them
right.
And I think that's one of thedefining characteristics for a
man inside of a family system.

(32:03):
Like when I think of what doesit mean for a man to help curate
an emotionally healthy familysystem, which is, yeah, every
guy's like wait, how do you, howdo I do that?
How do I curate a healthyfamily system?
I think I think a definingcharacteristic that I've seen

(32:23):
for an emotionally healthyfamily system is a family that
can engage in rupture and alsofind repair right, because
healthy family system is notjust about being free from
conflict.
This world and this life isgoing to be filled with conflict
.
We're going to experiencefrustration and dysregulation

(32:46):
inside of relationships, but itis how we engage in those
ruptures and it's how we engagein the repair of those ruptures
that I think, really defineswhat a healthy family system
means.
So I think just a personalexample is, like I said, my wife
and I are big you you know,thought first or speak first,

(33:07):
think later, type people in arelationship, and so there are
plenty of moments where we enterinto conflict and it's we have
learned over the years to enterinto that rupture with this like
hey, I'm going to honor you.
I'm going to see you as adaughter of God first.
I'm going to approach you as mywife of God first.
I'm going to approach you as mywife and honor you.

(33:29):
But there's times when we hurteach other, there's times when
we rupture the relationship.
But we have had the ability nowto lead our family through
seeing what repair looks like ofrupture in relationship.
And so we sit down with thekids and say, hey, mom and dad
got frustrated with each otherand you know they're emotional,
attuned little creaturesthemselves and they're like,

(33:51):
yeah, we could sense that youguys were fighting and it's like
you know, hey, daddy just wantsto apologize.
That was not the way that Ishould have responded to.
Your mom and Rachel will alsoapologize.
And we teach them that, hey,life is going to be filled with
hurt and with woundedness andyou're going to have rupture
inside of relationship.

(34:12):
But as a man and as a husband tomodel sitting down in front of
them and walking through askingfor forgiveness, of sitting them
and looking them in the eye andsaying, hey, daddy was a little
bit grumpy.
With my youngest four-year-oldI said daddy barked a little bit
too loud, didn't he Likedaddy's a big dogumpy.
With my, with my youngestfour-year-old, I said um, daddy
barked, barked, a little bit tooloud, didn't he?
Like daddy's a big dog, he'sgot a big bark.
I barked too loud.
And she goes yeah, you barkedtoo loud, I'm so sorry that I

(34:35):
barked so loud.
Right?
So it's just teaching them thatthey can express frustration,
that there can be anger, butit's how we enter back into
relationship and repair thosewounds and those ruptures in
relationship.
That, I think, really marks ahealthy emotional family system,
not one that's just hey, wenever have any problems of any

(34:57):
sort ever and we never voice anyconcerns.
I think that's just a littlebit of avoidance.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
But yeah, yeah, and the word, as you're talking
about all that too, the wordhumility like comes up actually
in the repair.
And I think the lack of humilityis probably more often than not
what keeps people in maybe astate of unrepair.
Um, I want to be right, I don'twant to be wrong, whatever it

(35:26):
might be Right, and sort of thislack of just humility and sort
of lowering ourselves andhumbling ourselves in that way
that it, yeah, it can reallykeep us from from entering in
into that repair.
And that is so often what'sneeded.
And I know, you know, I I'veseen for me, like you know, when

(35:49):
I come to one of my kids andand and model that you know, hey
, like I'm, like I I got reallyupset and angry, Um, and I'm
sorry for yelling, you know, I'msorry, but but then I'm
modeling too, like what thatlooks like.
And it's so important becauseif, if we don't model that and

(36:15):
we just get the other stuff, youknow, then we're kind of left
in those ruptures and thosereally just become wounds.
Yeah, you know that repair isthis opportunity to enter in and
to help kind of maybe preventsome of those things from taking
a little bit deeper toll andfestering over time and years,
and then in the way that theybecome.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Well, I think for a thing, for you to actually grow,
there has to be a break, right?
And like it's in those momentsI think that's an important
thing for parents, right, isit's in those moments, you know,
I think of some of the dadsthat we have in our communities
that are in community with theirsons.
So there's a son who's in aprogram, and then there's a dad

(36:53):
who's in a program, and thenthere's a wife who's getting
healing.
The goal is not like oh no, Idon't want my kid to ever
struggle or ever fall or everhave any wrestlings with sin.
And it's like, well, that'sjust a part of this broken human
experience that we're going toencounter these broken places in
our story.
We're going to encounter sin inthis life.

(37:16):
But it's teaching them how tocome back from those things.
Right, it's about teaching theson that, hey, when you
encounter lustful thoughts, whenyou cross the boundary that you
said you were never going to do, when you encounter lustful
thoughts, when you cross theboundary that you said you were
never going to do, when you findyourself maybe stuck in a
pattern of addiction, right,it's not like, oh no, there's no

(37:38):
hope for you.
Like, good luck, kid.
Like you broke the law it'smore of.
And how do we enter back intohealthy relationship with God
and with others and repair andremove that shame so that they
can then move forward inemotional health and stability?
If there was never a rupture,then there is never a moment to
teach how to grow beyond thatrupture.

(37:59):
And so we can see those momentswhere there is break and see
those moments of rupture as aplace to teach and train the
next generation to be able togrow, heal and mature through
that process, rather than justbe decimated by the shame
covered up and hope no one eversees it again, right, which I

(38:22):
think is what the majority ofpeople have done for a long time
.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, it makes me think of this quote from a very
unspiritual movie, but I thinkit's Batman Begins, and Alfred
is talking to young Bruce Wayneand he says why do we fall,
master Bruce?
And his response is so that wecan learn to get back up.
Yeah, such a powerful quote,and you just put that in the

(38:47):
context with, you know, theLord's grace and understanding
and as we grow, and you know, itreally allows us to learn about
ourselves and even as adults,to take, you know, take a look
at our stories and learn aboutsome of the things that have
happened in our lives that maycontribute to some of these.
You know behaviors and patternsand things like that that we're

(39:10):
discussing today.
So learning is is so importantbecause when we, you know, we
can learn from, from ourmistakes.
Right, there's that old sayinglearn from your mistakes, and
Richard Rohr says that.
You know, thinking about someof the things that you've been
sharing too, and the pain thatsome of these things can, can,
you know, cause in anindividual's life that if we

(39:31):
don't transform our pain, wewill always transmit it, and
then someone always has tosuffer, and so broken people
break people, and we're all,we're all broken, we're all
people, and so we need to learnwhat that looks like, to like to
enter in, to allow that thingto be transformed, to grow in
those ways of repairing thoseruptures so that we can show up

(39:57):
in that sort of God-designed way.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, I think when you apply these concepts that
we've been talking about to oursexuality right, when we apply
that to you know, someonebecoming sexually competent and
finding healthy sexuality andhealthy sexual fluency within
the family context, that is sucha beautiful thing, brother.

(40:22):
Because, man, if I had a familysystem that would have walked
with me through that initialfinding of pornography and that
shame that began to creep in.
If I would have had I had greatparents, but if I would have
had parents who were competentin their own healthy sexuality
and healthy emotional sexuality,step into that space with me

(40:45):
and kind of that.
Hey, you know why do we, youknow why do we fall, so we can
learn how to get back up.
Let's walk you through, son,why God created our sexuality to
exist, why you know, what isthe beautiful design behind
sexuality, why do we protect it?
How do we protect it?
Okay, let's walk through allthese different ways that we can

(41:06):
grow and mature in our sexualhealth and competency.
As a young man, if I had hadthat kind of family system, I
probably wouldn't be on thispodcast with you.
I'd be off living some abundantlife elsewhere, god knows where
.
Right, it feels like utopia andthat's kind of what I see
through working with men in thisspace is when you have parents

(41:33):
who are raising these beautifulyoung children through the lens
of gospel-centered sexuality andhave the ability to talk
fluidly about hey.
I remember when I was 8, 9, 10,11, 12, 16, 17, 19, 24, getting
married, and I can speakfluidly through my story of hey.

(41:55):
I remember the first time Iencountered this material and I
remember how that felt.
Son, I can imagine what you'regoing through and I want you to
know that I'm in this with youand I understand what you're
going through and I'm going towalk you through, if you'd let
me, on ways that we can matureand grow through this.
I mean a mom and a dad that aresitting in that space with
their kids, offering that typeof emotional safety and that

(42:19):
type of guidance through thosedifficult conversations.
I mean that changes thetrajectory of an entire life.
We have a program called 423Next where we walk with high
school students.
We got kids down to 13 yearsold who are in a group every
week for two hours workingthrough their struggles with

(42:41):
pornography and masturbation andreally this culture of
hypersexuality that we findourselves in, and I think
there's a few stories in thiswhere it's actually kind of the
reverse, where we have healthyteenagers going back into their
home and helping disciple theirdad to start stepping into

(43:01):
healthy sexuality, which is just.
I mean, those kids are studs, Idon't know what else to say.
But seeing that next generationbegin to flourish in healthy
sexuality and healthy emotional,relational, spiritual health is
just, is so beautiful, becausewhen you have a life that has

(43:23):
been unhindered and unfetteredby, you know, compulsive sexual
addiction, it's such a beautiful, beautiful life for sure.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
Yeah, man, I love that.
I want to go back to what yousaid a minute ago too, just
about, like when we're talkingabout the getting back up and
what that looks like and thatspiritual sense.
I think you know it might looklike confessing and repenting,
you know, and it could be reallyscary.
And I think it is scary for alot of people.
You know they have this idea orperception of what it means to

(43:56):
confess, what it means to repent, and it's spent some time, you
know, do a little word study.
You know in scripture.
You know, do a little wordstudy.
You know in scripture.
And you know that would be myencouragement to the listener is
you know we've heard this, Ithink, in so many different
contexts and in church anddifferent things too, that can

(44:20):
kind of skew.
You know what this is.
You know it's like confessingisn't always about like sharing
all your deepest, darkestsecrets.
It's about, you know, sharing.
You know it's really aboutspeaking the truth of what the
Lord says in a situation and ifyou're not kind of living that
out or you've kind of fallenshort in different areas, then
you're confessing his truth forthese different kind of things,

(44:41):
and then it means turning around, turn the other direction, go
the other way and walk in that.
So when you get back up, areyou just going to stand there,
like when we get back up wedon't just stand still, like we
have to sort of continue thatjourney, and so the repenting is
kind of putting us on thatright path, you know?

(45:01):
So it's not something to be sortof scared about, like when we
talk about repenting to yourspouse or repenting to the lord,
like in confession, and um, Ijust think that you know, I
don't know about you, but I justI've seen this, you know, pop
up in some of the differentgroups and men that we've worked
with that that see this sort ofas a almost like a scary thing

(45:23):
and, um, I just want to kind oflike break that off that it's
not confession and repentanceisn't a scary thing, and I just
want to kind of like break thatoff that it's not confession and
repentance isn't a scary thing.
It doesn't have to be a scary,very healing thing and a very
redemptive thing to experience.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, and I think you know going back to that, you
know it is just speaking thetruth.
I think that goes goes a littlebit back to and if you can't
engage your own story, if youcan't engage the truth of what
has for him to really engage andspeak the truth in any other

(46:07):
context, because he's so afraidof all that other truth spilling
out.
And yeah, I think that is whycreating spaces, safe places for
people to engage in confessionand having people walk alongside
you to help you move towardsrepentance is such a beautiful
thing.
I think that's probably one ofthe number one things that we

(46:29):
hear from the spouses of men whogo through our program is wow,
like Tim actually learned how tocommunicate and apologize.
And you know they're becomingmore emotionally able to be
fluid in these conversations.
Because in that safe, attunedpresence of a group or with a
coach or with a counselor or ata retreat where you're able to

(46:53):
just bring everything into thelight, where you're able to
confess, not just like the badsecrets of the things that you
have done that you would say aresinful, but, man, how I felt as
a seven-year-old boy, or how Ifelt as an 11-year-old chubby
kid, or the pain of growing upfeeling just disconnected from
community groups, and when I canbring all of that, all of me,

(47:16):
into the light, when I can learnto live a life that is fully
disclosed, where there is nodark stain within me, where
there is no shadow that does notcome into the light of being
known.
When I allow myself to be knownby others, it allows me to
confess and repent right.
And so, like you, have to beable to find a space where you

(47:40):
can be fully, fully known sothat you can be fully loved, and
in the safety of love is whereyou can practice confession and
repentance.
If you practice confession andrepentance in an unsafe
community or in an unsafeenvironment, you're going to get
beat up and torn up and it'sgoing to keep people from moving
forward towards health.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Yeah, yeah, it makes me think about that whack-a-mole
thing that you talked about.
Yeah, yeah, and how many of ushave experienced that like in in
our sharing, yeah, um, yeah, Ijust yeah that pause right there
.
I know I'm just thinking about,um, a listener who might be,
you know, that just might bereally resonating and so my

(48:22):
heart goes out to you.
Um, yeah, I definitely hopethat you can find a place where
you can have that safety to beable to share and to be known,
as we've kind of talked about.
It's so important and it's soneeded for healing and on that

(48:43):
journey of wholeness.
Joel, all right, so talking sortof about parents and the
importance of their competencywith their own emotionally, like
their healthy spirituality, andthen showing up for their like
teens.
I love what one of the reasonsI wanted to have you on is
because I just love that youguys engage this work with teens

(49:08):
and it's.
There are not a lot ofministries that do that, and so
I do want us to spend some timehere really kind of highlighting
, you know, what some of thathas looked like and in the
context of this conversationwith the dad, and then just the
growing of that sort of like inthe emotional health, um, the

(49:29):
sexual competency, knowing theirown stories and um.
You know, and I know, parentsmake a lot of mistakes when it
comes to this, and how do they,how do they enter in, how do
they engage?
So what are some commonmistakes that that that you guys
have seen when it comes totalking about sexuality with
their kids, and how might theydo a better job entering in?

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah, and there's so much.
There's so much there of thingsto approach with teens and man.
We'd love to have our youthdirector, ben, on here at some
point because he's working withthe teens and parents every day.
I think one of the worst thingsparents can do when they're
trying to engage in thoseconversations around healthy

(50:14):
sexuality is when they have donezero work themselves in their
own sexuality.
You know, they see their youknow 15 year old son and they
know through intuition that he'sbeginning to sexually act out,
or they know that he's lookingat pornography and just kind of
out of panic, they just try toforce and you know, just tell us

(50:35):
everything that you're doing.
And you know there's this panicand there's this emotional, you
know, hyper response to thisteen and that is anything but a
safe place for that teen to havethat conversation Right.
And so if parents want to haveconversations surrounding
healthy sexuality with teens,one they need to start doing

(50:58):
their own work surrounding theirown sexuality.
There is not I think JulieSlattery says it that we are all
sexually broken in some way,regardless if you have struggled
with addiction or whether youhave been abused.
We all struggle with sexualityin some way, and so parents need
to co-get their own healing inthis area, whether that's in a

(51:20):
group, whether that's incounseling.
Begin the conversations oflearning how to live a life
disclosed so that you can helpyour son or daughter disclose
when they need to, when you havethat sexual competency in your
own story and you can regulateyourself to be able to begin to
have those emotionally healthyconversations with your kids.

(51:44):
It really all starts with beingable to have an emotionally
safe environment in the home.
Like is your home a safe placefor your kid to rupture and then
is it a safe place for them torepair?
Is your child able to fallshort of the glory of God in
your presence without youlashing out irrationally and

(52:07):
trying to control and fix them?
And so really learning how tocreate a stable, healthy
emotional environment for yourkids where they see it modeled
by you.
I think you said the humilitythat my daughter, my oldest
daughter, is nine now.
When she sees big you knowgruff dad get down on his knees

(52:28):
and say honey, I'm so sorry thatI was rough with you or gruff
with you.
Daddy was just tired and Iwasn't.
That was not how I should havespoken to you.
Will you forgive me when shesees that modeled of like wow,
big superhero dad.
Like they're young enough, theystill think I'm a superhero,

(52:49):
right, when superhero dad canget down on his knees and look
her in the eye and say we havethis another mantra.
Like do you know that I loveyou?
She goes yes.
Say you know we have thisanother mantra, like do you know
that I love you?
She goes yes.
Do you know I love you all thetime?
Yes, do you know that I loveyou even when I'm not nice

(53:11):
sometimes?
Yes, I do.
Do you know that I love youeven when you're not nice to me?
Sometimes he goes yes.
And I say, well, who could loveyou even more than I could?
She goes Jesus.
I say yes, yes, he does.
And so just teaching them that,like, hey, love is messy and
relationships are messy, butit's in humility when we're able
to step into that space withthem and give them a place to

(53:34):
heal and to repair.
Where we are attuned, we arepresent, we are calm, we are
humble.
That type of engagementtranscends all conversations,
not just conversations aroundhealthy sexuality, and so if
you're wanting to talk to yourson or daughter about their
sexual behaviors or their sexualpractices, with pornography,

(53:57):
but you haven't created anemotionally safe home.
The conversations are going tobe really, really difficult, and
so having mom and dad go dotheir own work in regards to
their healthy sexuality,practicing humility and
confession and repentancebetween each other first before
they try to engage the home, isprobably some of the best things

(54:18):
that a parent can do for theirkid in that environment.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think one of the things that prevents
parents from really enteringinto that like like you've
talked about, is, you know, sortof getting a handle on their
own sexuality, like how did they, what did they experience?
What's a part of their story?
Maybe that's been you knowsomething that's been you know
shameful, or something thatmaybe they haven't worked

(54:42):
through or forgotten, and sothat might prevent them from
wanting to enter into thoseconversations.
And so even that healing inyour own story, you know,
creates that ability to reallyshow up, you know for, for your
kids.
And I think about the parentstoo, like who, who maybe are
doing this, but sometimes, likemight see you know one of their,

(55:07):
one of their children come tothem and share something you
know really heavy sexually, youknow, maybe they've been
struggling with, you know, maybethey're identifying, as you
know, homosexual or you know,but whatever, whatever it might
be right, or that they've beenviewing pornography and it's
been going on for a while, butbut that there there's this

(55:30):
element in that that they'rethey're coming to their parent
and they're sharing really hardand deep things and there is
such a beautiful sort ofopportunity there and what that
means is that they feel likethat parent is safe to be able
to come and to share that.

(55:52):
And you know we might not wantthat for our kids.
You know we might not want thatfor our kids, but there's

(56:21):
something about, I think, likethe prodigal father and him just
being there for that they're.
They're trusting you withsomething so big because they
feel like you are a safe personto come to and to share that
with, and that is a beautifulstarting place and that's huge.
So, but I know, at the sametime, that brings a lot of
different emotions and you know,maybe I don't know I want to

(56:43):
say regrets, but justtrepidation about how do we move
forward, what do I do now?
Like all those kinds of things,right and so and I get all that
.
But yeah, what would you say?
Maybe?
What would you say to that Joel?

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Yeah, I think.
I think there's also a misnomerof people thinking that they
have to have all of the answersfor their kid right and part of
it.
I think the most importantthing is being that safe
presence for that person.
That even goes to us as workersin the work of this recovery
process is it's not by havingall of the answers and knowing

(57:20):
every single step and, yeah, I'mgoing to be the one that is
your guide to finding sexualwholeness and healthy sexuality,
and I'm the person who's goingto perfectly model this for you.
The best thing that a parent cando in that space is learn how
to be a loving, kind, attunedpresence where they are leaned
in and they say, hey, I see youand I know that what you're

(57:42):
going through is so difficultright now.
Thank you for bringing that tothis room.
I love you and I'm gonna walkwith you and, hey, together
maybe we can find some resourcesto help with this.
I would love to walk with you.
I've been there, maybe whereyou are before, where I've
wrestled with my own identityand I've wrestled with my own
sexuality in so many differentways, and I know what it feels

(58:06):
like and I'm going to be herewith you, no matter what happens
.
That goes so much further thanhey.
Here's a 12-step plan for youto find wholeness.
Let me know when you completestep one.
I'll help you with step two.
Like being that kind presencethat is.
Hey, I am your biggest champion, no matter what comes next, and

(58:27):
I'm going to sit here with youuntil we find support.
And then there's greatministries like regeneration
right that can help walk withpeople through these different
spaces and parents can come andget engaged and begin to learn
and grow and get their teenconnected to resources.
Parents don't need to have allthe answers, they just need to
be a kind, attuned, lovingpresence yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
I mean you guys are tremendous resource again for
that and in our show notes we'llhave a link to your guys's page
and parents can find out moreabout the great work you guys
are doing there, especially withteens.
And I know you know ourexecutive director co-authored
Treading Boldly, which is reallya field guide for parents to

(59:12):
tread sort of through thispornographic age with their,
with their teens, with theirkids, and how to have
conversations and all that.
That's going to be in our shownotes as well.
Tremendous resource for parents.
And I think you know the morewe can highlight resources and
just help for parents becauseagain, feeling like I've got to
have all the answers or I don'tknow what to do, well, like,

(59:32):
here's a resource, you know,like that, have a conversation,
you know, reach out to four, two, three, reach out to
regeneration, you know, checkthis book out.
You know, the more we can kindof equip ourselves, the better
we can, you know, learn and growin that and then to be able to
be that safe presence, you know,for our kids, that intentional.

(59:54):
I think that's back to theintentionality, the intentional
father.
I want to be a father that hasongoing conversations with my
kids about all areas of theirlife, including their sexuality,
and to feel safe and tocomfortable, you know, to engage
in those conversations, becausethose aren't one and done
conversations, those are reallyin some ways lifelong

(01:00:14):
conversations.
You know, especially at leastthrough you know, through their
youth, and then even then you're, you know they grow up and get
married and they have questions.
You know, especially, at leastthrough you know, through their
youth, and then even then you're, you know, they grow up and get
married and they have questions.
You know, and you can be, youknow you've been there and so
you can offer that to them.
So what a beautiful opportunitythat is, and you know, to step
into some of those things.
I think what we've we'vecovered, you know, some really

(01:00:36):
beautiful things today.
I think what we've we've covered, you know some really beautiful
things today.
I think a good kind ofprogression through again just
what happens in the home, when,when a man kind of steps up and
embraces his own healing and howthat can transform the home,
and then growing in theemotional capacities and the
competencies that we've talkedabout, um, all the way down to

(01:01:00):
you know how that affects, uh,how their kids and the family
are kind of receiving that um,the, the repair, the growth, the
safety, all that Right.
So, um, I want to just createsome opportunity for you to
share, um, uh, just anythingthat's coming up at 423

(01:01:22):
communities that you want tohighlight.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Yeah for sure.
Yeah, Thank you for giving that.
I think the first would just bewe have a space for teens right
now, down to 13.
If you have kids and you don'tknow what to guide them towards,
that is what that program isspecifically geared towards.
It's highly, highly trainedleaders.
There's a whole legal policybehind how to integrate.

(01:01:46):
There's high connection with thefamily, so parents are involved
and they go into their ownprogram alongside their teen and
we have parent support groupsof how do you support your teen
wrestling with addiction?
How do you get support as aparent wrestling with the grief
that your teen is an addiction?
There's spaces available forpeople to connect to care in
that space and then for youparent, if you need someone to

(01:02:11):
walk alongside you as you learnto grow in your sexual
competency and your emotionalhealth, we have groups available
year round, never ending.
You can be in a group as longas you need to, with the focus
being on that holistic sexualhealth and relational health for
men, women's addictions andbetrayed partners all over the

(01:02:33):
country, and so we would love towalk with you in finding that
sexual wholeness and healingbecoming whole in those areas.
We just released a great newresource for every member in the
423 men's program.
It's a four-month intensive.
It's part of our membership.
It's a daily touchpoint for 109days with world-class teaching

(01:02:56):
and workbook content that guidesthem for their first four
months in group.
That we're really excited about.
It has some great feedback fromour community members as an
essential piece for theirrecovery journey.
So, yeah, we would love to walkwith anyone anywhere that is
looking for a place to grow intheir health.
That's what we're here to do.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Joel man, it's such a joy again, man, to have you
with us today.
I'm so glad that you were ableto join.
I really enjoyed ourconversation, your openness and
your wisdom and the way that youlive out the hope of the gospel
.
It's in such a practical andrelational way and it's really
deeply encouraging, and so I'mjust grateful for how you shared

(01:03:44):
not just the vision for 423Communities but also the heart
behind it Helping men, women andfamilies move from brokenness
into wholeness.
That God intended.
I think you reminded us todaythat change starts with
courageously facing our ownstory and allowing God to
transform our hearts so that wecan love and lead well, and I

(01:04:07):
know that today's conversationis going to bring hope and
direction to a lot of peoplelistening.
So we're going to be cheeringyou guys on over at 432 and and
praying for the continued impactof your work.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
Yeah, brother.
No, thank you so much forhaving me on here.
You're a dearly loved brotherand I think we get to spend some
time together here in the nextmonth or so, which I am
overjoyed to be doing with youand love the work that you guys
are doing Regeneration and Ilook forward to linking arms
with you in as many ways aspossible coming down the line,

(01:04:42):
brother.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Yeah, me too, man.
Thanks again, and to all of youlistening, thank you for being
with us today.
Your willingness to lean intothese conversations and to
pursue wholeness is what makesthis podcast so special.
We're grateful that you're onthe journey with us and we pray
that today's episode encouragesyou to take your next step

(01:05:03):
toward the healing and wholenessJesus has for you and your
family.
Let me pray over you, joel, andour listeners as well.
Father, thank you for Joel andthe ministry of 423 Communities.
We ask your continued blessingover their work, that many more

(01:05:24):
hearts and homes would berestored through their obedience
to you and for every listenertoday.
Lord, would you bring healingand courage and clarity for the
next step you're calling them totake and lead us all deeper
into your love, lord, and mayour lives reflect your wholeness

(01:05:45):
.
In Jesus name, I pray.
Amen Thank you, brother, yeah,yeah.
And before we sign off today, Iwant to personally invite you
to two transformationalopportunities coming up this
fall.
For the men, our Awaken Retreatis happening October 3rd
through 5th.
This will be one unforgettableweekend where you'll experience

(01:06:05):
being known and named throughbrotherhood, the Father's heart
and embodied healing.
Whether you're just startingout on your recovery journey or
you've been walking the path foryears, this retreat is for you
and for the women, sacred byDesign.
Retreat is happening November7th and 8th.
It's a unique space for womento slow down, connect deeply

(01:06:27):
with God and to rediscover thebeauty of who they are, beyond
shame and beyond striving.
It's a weekend of truth, graceand restoration.
If you or someone you know isready for something different,
something deeper.
Both retreats are open now, butspace is limited and for all
the details and to reserve yourspot, just click the link in the

(01:06:49):
show notes and until next time,keep pressing into the truth,
keep walking in grace and keepbecoming whole.