July 8, 2025 • 29 mins
Freedom doesn't happen by accident. Whether we realize it or not, our daily routines, habits, and patterns are shaping who we're becoming—either drawing us deeper into wholeness or reinforcing cycles of brokenness.
The practice of a "rule of life" offers hope and structure for those struggling with unwanted sexual behaviors.
From scripture reading and prayer to solitude, fasting, and physical exercise, we discuss practical disciplines that support recovery from sexual struggles. Rather than one-size-fits-all prescriptions, we discuss how to personalize these practices to match your unique needs, personality, and circumstances.
Jesus himself demonstrated a pattern of spiritual practices: early morning solitude, regular community worship, and intimate relationships with close disciples. His example invites us to consider what practices might create space in our busy lives to be with Him, become like Him, and do what He did.
Resources from this episode:
- Rule of Life Workbook
- Celebration of Discipline by Richard Foster
- Sacred Rhythms by Ruth Haley Barton
- Daily examen
Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole
👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey friends, we want to get into a topic today that
has kind of I don't know.
I don't even know how toexplain it.
I was trying to do this beforeand I tried to start before, but
let me say it this way One ofmy passions is that people who
are struggling in the area ofsexuality whether their own
unwanted sexual behaviors, thethings they're attracted to and
(00:20):
they're not sure why, somebodyelse in their family who has
gone off the rails, either aspouse or partner, who has been
unfaithful, um or uh, a kid whohas embraced the ideas of the
culture and is has becomeprodigal in that way, uh, one of
one of my passions is thatfolks in those situations
discover that what Christianityoffers them, what Jesus offers
(00:45):
them, is actually enough, thathe himself is the savior.
There's no place in their livesthat is exempted from the
reality that Jesus can save us.
And so I love, I love, I lovewhen I find resonance between
best practices, when it comes tosexual addiction recovery, for
example, and good Christianspirituality.
(01:06):
It's kind of an underlying theme, I think, in what regeneration
tries to do, because we believethat Jesus really is the savior
of the world, including peoplewho struggle with all sorts of
things.
So, with that in mind, today wewant to talk about an ancient
spiritual idea of a spiritualrule of life.
Spiritual idea of a spiritualrule of life, and we're going to
(01:29):
tie it into something that youneed in your own journey, your
own recovery journey and, uh,and I hope you see in this that
you are just one of everybodyyou you are, you're like
everybody else on the planet whoneeds something like this.
So, um, with me today, jamesCraig, one of our spiritual
coaches and our director ofprojects, james, good to see you
Everyone.
James, when you hear the wordsrule of life, what comes to mind
for you?
Well, I wonder.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
First, if people are like okay, rules, I don't know
if I want more rules coming intothis Yep, it's better than that
.
Just wait and see.
It's better than that.
What comes to my mind and Idon't have a succinct definition
, as you know, but like thingsthat we do on a regular basis,
like kind of we map out you knowI love maps and I'm very
(02:11):
spatial but kind of map out whatwe need to live this Christian
life, to flourish, Maybe that'sthe way to put it.
I said optimize earlier when wewere talking offline, like a
millennial would.
But more than self optimization, this is about living a
flourishing life.
Like it makes me think of thatidea from the church, father
(02:34):
Irenaeus, I believe, who saysthat the glory of God is a man
fully alive, of course, or awoman fully alive.
The glory of God is when we arefully alive in God.
Alive, the glory of God is whenwe are fully alive in God.
So, like, how do we get there?
Like you know, I'm also verysystematic, so I think rule of
life can be one of those ways wemove toward that.
That flourish, flourishing,that displaying of the glory of
(02:55):
God.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, Good, that's great, it's actually it's.
It's, uh, and I appreciate youbrought up the idea of the rule
and how, um, most of us, or manyof us, uh, will bristle at that
, Like you know, wait, wait,this is Christianity.
We're not introducing morerules, are we?
Uh, which whole conversationswe can have around that alone.
Um, the idea of a rule of life,the, that idea, rule, that word
(03:20):
rule actually comes from Idon't know what, is it Latin or
something, but originally it'sequated with more like the idea
of a trellis.
When you're trying to grow aplant, you use a trellis to hold
the plant up so that as itgrows, the weight of the fruit
doesn't pull the plant down tothe ground, where animals will
eat it, rot, will get it, thosekinds of things, and so the more
(03:43):
robust your plant is, the morefruitful your plant is, the
higher, stronger you need thetrellis, and spiritual fathers
and mothers have recognized thatin the spiritual life we
actually need supports so thatwe can flourish.
Some of you will bristle at thata little bit.
Go, wait, wait, that sounds alittle bit like you're saying
(04:04):
that Jesus isn't enough, thatgrace isn't enough.
Not saying that.
We're not saying that.
What we are saying is, if Icould put it this way, is this
that Jesus really cares God?
It is a fundamental reality forGod that he will not say yes
for us.
Say yes for us that if we, ifwe want him, he is available to
(04:29):
us, but he will not forcehimself on us.
And so spiritual practices,spiritual disciplines, those
kinds of things that will makeup a rule of life, they'll make
up the trellis that helps us togrow and we'll get into that
more in a minute are reallyplaces and spaces we put
ourselves where we are sayingyes to God.
They're they're places in ourschedule.
They are practices that we doto help open us to God.
It's a kind of a each one mightbe our own individual kind of
(04:50):
yes to the Lord, all right, sotrack with us there.
If you're still not sure, it'sokay, stick with us.
Let me give a definition here.
Actually and I'm going to stealthis directly from um, uh, a
ministry called practicing theway, led by oh, it's gone.
Where did I?
What'd I do with it?
I just I just yes.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Um, uh, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I'm going to type it in, if you can hear me typing on
the on the thing, that's.
That's the way it goes.
Um, yeah, john Mark Homer has aministry called Practicing the
Way and he helps us to frame upwhat a rule of life is and what
practices he believes should bea part of everybody's rule of
life.
But I want to read hisdefinition specifically about
rule of life what a rule of lifeis, and I think it'll help to
(05:38):
consider how does this apply toyou and your recovery journey,
the recovery of your marriage,the recovery of your own
integrity?
How do these things apply?
So just kind of go ahead of methere.
So this is what he says about arule of life is a schedule and
(06:01):
set of practices and relationalrhythms that help us create
space in our busy world for usto be with Jesus, become like
Jesus and do what Jesus did.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Okay, a rule of life is a schedule that's powerful.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
It's got a lot there.
Rule of life is a schedule anda set of practices and
relational rhythms that help uscreate space in our busy world.
That's my version of yes tocreate spaces for yes, in our
busy world for us to be withJesus, become like Jesus and do
what Jesus did.
He goes on a little bit further, but he also says this while
the word rule may strike you asa stricter, binding constraint,
(06:39):
the Latin I was right about thatthe Latin word we translate
rule was originally the word fora trellis in a vineyard.
So there you go.
All right.
So, james, take it back for asecond, um, what are you hearing
in there, and maybe even get alittle bit ahead of us, um, but
let's actually don't don't goahead of us to the recovery work
yet, but just just in the realmof um, people in general, what
(07:01):
do you, what do you think?
What do you see as the value ofa rule of life?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
this kind of trellis, these, this, this uh, schedule
and set of practices andrelational rhythms that help
create space in our busy worldfor us to be with jesus I've
heard that, uh, discipleshipwhich might be where we get the
word discipline, from which I'msure we'll unpack some of
spiritual discipline, languageor practices but discipleship is
learning to do what Jesus did,like learning to obey and love
(07:29):
Jesus, to lovingly obey Jesus Ithink I've heard it said.
So there's something about.
There's like a last stanzathere I should have in front of
me too but there's somethingabout like becoming like Jesus,
walking with Jesus, doing whathe did and we see Jesus doing
things that you could call partof your role of life, like going
off to pray and likerecognizing that we are formed
(07:52):
as we participate with him indoing the things he did.
That feels like a reallyimportant idea.
Like we're being sanctifiedstill by grace, but like we're
engaging it, we're walking in it, we're opening the gift, and
part of that is what he'smodeled and part of that is
doing it with him.
I think that's actually reallykey.
(08:13):
Like maybe we'll talk aboutthis later, but many times we
get stuck in spiritual practicesbecause we're not able to
relationally connect with himwhile reading the Bible or doing
different things.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
But becoming like him in that process, that's good,
yeah, yeah, let me give those toyou again.
So the reason for these is tobe with Jesus, become like Jesus
and do what Jesus did.
And, by the way, we'll have awe'll link to this specific part
of John Mark Homer's sitepracticing the way, um, in the
show notes.
Uh, it's in.
(08:44):
He has actually has a link hereon how to create your own rule
of life, um, that some of youmay want to take advantage of.
Um, yeah, I, I.
One of the things that comes tomind for me is is this that that
we live in a world that has, uh, lots of rules of life, lots of
their own trellises for thekind of fruit that the world
would like to produce in you, um.
(09:06):
So, for example, we live in a,in a consumeristic culture at
least here in the West, we hadvery consumeristic culture, um,
and we have lots and lots andlots of trellises around us
supporting that we would bebuyers, that we would buy things
, that we would see things, wantthem, buy them, see things,
want them, believe we need themand buy them.
It's hard to get through a day,let alone a week, let alone a
(09:29):
month, certainly, let alone ayear in the United States
without seeing something newthat you never thought you might
need or never thought you mightwant and not think.
Hmm, that might be really good,that might bring me life, that
might make me more of the personI hope to be.
So we're surrounded by rules oflife everywhere, uh, and, and
part of what we're trying to getafter in this podcast is is
(09:49):
that Jesus, too, invites us tobecome like him, to be with him,
become like him, live like hedid.
And it's not going to happenjust by floating along with the,
with the, the current of theculture, because the current of
the culture has its own designfor the, for what it believes we
are meant to be, who itbelieves we're meant to spend
our time with and what itbelieves we were supposed to be
(10:10):
doing with our days.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
So, instead of you're kind of saying that, even if we
don't map it out, even if we'renot thoughtful about it, we are
being swept into rules of life.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
We're following rules of life, even if we're not
trying to.
I think so.
I think so.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
about that.
Yeah Well, even as you'retalking, I'm like you know, if
we think about the normalpractices in our life, like if
you were to really think aboutit, if you looked at the last
seven days, what would it wouldyou be able to map on your
calendar?
My rule of life is watchingnetflix from 8 pm to 11 pm every
night, or you know what I mean.
Like, yeah, it's almost like ifwe were to actually map out
(10:47):
what we're currently living bythe trellises in our lives, we
might actually see some realconsistency.
And, like you're saying, withthe shopping thing, like we're
inundated, in part because ofmaybe watching stuff like ads
come through into our homes andwhatnot, but we're inundated
with things that we haven'tmaybe even considered.
Like these are structures inour lives that are impacting us.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think I think like one way,
another way to think coming atthis whole thing is that is that
God has designed us ascreatures of habit, that we're
actually wired neurologically todevelop habits that help us to
move along.
I mean, one of the exampleswe've given in the past is the
idea of, like, if you walk intoa room a hundred times and reach
(11:30):
for the light switch a hundredtimes, by the 101th time you
don't even have to look, youknow where to reach and you just
flip on the light switch.
I know, when we moved offices afew years ago, every time I'd
go into the little kitchenetteI'd reach, without even thinking
about it, reach to the right toflip on the light switch, and
it was on the left.
Why did I do that?
Well, because I had beenhabitualized to reach for the,
(11:51):
for the light switch on theright, cause that's where it
reason behind god's design.
That way is that is that ithelps us to be able to do more
stuff and to not have to spendtime thinking all the time about
how much of the light I want.
Like be a pretty laborious lifeif we'd never learned to walk,
and every time we did.
We had to think about what was,you know, left, right, like.
But no, we're creatures of habit.
(12:11):
We learn it, we can do it, wegrow in the spiritual life.
The same same principles aretrue, are true, relation to the
same principles are true.
But when we develop thosehabits and they're not healthy,
or they lead us to be withpeople that aren't healthy and
to become people aren't healthyand to do things that are
unhealthy, then the habits workagainst us and those are what,
you know, we might kind of, incommon nomenclature, call
(12:33):
unhealthy habits or bad habits.
Um and so why?
They put it in ways sorry, youknow, rule of life.
In a real way it's just kind oflike hey, I want to develop
healthy, godly habits in my life.
I want the routines that kindof come out of me naturally to
be things that that are good forme, Can I, can I nerd out on
brain science just for a secondyeah?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
yeah, yeah please, I love what you do.
So I've heard from Jim Wilder,who calls himself a
neurotheologian, a lot of greatstuff that he has.
But the left brain refreshes atlike five times a second.
So five Hertz if you know thatword, that physics word, hertz,
not five Hertz, five refreshes asecond.
The right brain's faster sixHertz, six refreshes.
So it's always going to befaster to go right to left.
(13:16):
But then once you have whitematter, that's all gray matter.
When we have white matter formthrough habits, it's so much
stronger, it's less malleable,isn't changeable as easily and
it can go at I think is it 300times a second or like it's
something unreal fast.
Um, it might be 300 timesfaster than the left brain,
(13:36):
whatever it was.
Once we actually form that graymatter into white matter
through habits, we moveincredibly fast.
That's why Elon Musk hasn't yetfigured out how to make
self-driving cars faster thanthe human brain, because it's
actually so fast.
But one of the things I want toquickly tie this to a lot of
times when I hear this stuff I'mlike, okay, that's the brain.
(13:57):
But we're also talking aboutspiritual formation, like what
do we do with that?
And I'm just thinking back toliterally the episode with
Elizabeth Wanning that will haveaired about a month ago at this
point that I just recorded withher.
She talks about how we're notas divided and I think John
Marcoma you've said says this aswell our spirits and our bodies
are not as divided as we thinkand arguably, if you take cs
(14:20):
lewis's line of thought, thatthe little decisions we make are
making us more a creature ofheaven or a creature of hell
over time, that white matter,even though I don't know how
it'll transition into the newheavens and new earth, god god
knows the details of all that.
Maybe, maybe there's people whoknow more than I do, but
there's still somethingreleasing.
I know I'm saying brain matter,but that matters.
(14:43):
That is, actually making animpact on your soul and on your
spirit yeah, I love that, yeah,I mean it.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
And those listening who wrestle with unwanted sexual
behaviors, you, you know thisexperientially.
I mean you know something comesacross your purview.
You are not thinking about x, yand z or a little bit cliche
here, but you're not thinkingabout triple x.
And then suddenly you are, andit's's not because you you made
(15:13):
a conscious decision to go thatdirection, it's because you're
that you've learned.
Your brain, your body havelearned over time that when a
happens, b happens, triple Xhappens, like that's the way
your body's learned it, and sopart of recovery is teaching
your brain and body to learnsomething different.
And and we've, in all thatwe've talked about with
spiritual rule of life so farand habits so far, we've kind of
(15:36):
left out even that.
They're that actually it's notjust um, neutral forces working
upon you or you know differentoptions working apart there.
There are literally, accordingto jesus, malevolent forces that
are working upon you to try toget you to develop habits that
direct your life away from God,away from being with God, away
(15:57):
from being like God, away fromdoing the things that God would
have you do.
And, um, we're, we're talkingabout, you know, the world, the
flesh and the devil the unholyTrinity has some have called it
the world, the flesh and thedevil um, actually do not want
you to follow Jesus.
And so, um, and this is truefor every Christian, but we
certainly have can experience iteven in our, in our, in a very
(16:19):
bodily sense, as we're wrestlingwith sexual sins.
Or, if you're listening, and,hey, sexual sin is not my
problem, but it is my, myspouse's problem, um, you know
it from some of the learnedresponses you have to your
spouse as you're trying torebuild trust with him or her.
Um, there are some things thathave happened to you, around you
, experience you've had thatmake it difficult for you to
(16:40):
walk in peace with Jesus, tokeep your eyes on him, um, et
cetera, et cetera.
So this idea of rule of life isis really not to give you more
to do, it is really to try toset you up for more freedom.
And again, if you've alreadygot a rule of life, let me say
differently you already do havea rule of life, and there may be
(17:01):
malevolent forces that haveintroduced their rule of life
for you that you're living with.
That's not pointing a finger atyou, it's just saying hey,
welcome to living in a fallenworld, and so Jesus is inviting
you to a different way.
So a couple of biblicalexamples here I think about.
(17:22):
It's not hard to think aboutJesus.
The gospel writers talked abouthow he had a habit of getting up
early while it was still darkand going away to pray by
himself.
So that was a part of Jesus'srule of life.
Jesus would go to the temple.
That was a part of his rule oflife.
Jesus gathered 12 people aroundhim to live with him, to walk
with him, to be with him all thetime.
That was a part of his rule oflife and might suggest it was a
(17:49):
part of the rule of life he wasinviting them into also.
Might also think here of whatPaul writes to Timothy when he
compares discipleship to thelife of an athlete or the life
of a soldier and he reallychallenges Timothy basically
like don't intermingle with kindof the ways that just the world
flows here.
Consider yourself like anathlete or consider yourself
like a military person whorecognizes that if they do what
(18:10):
everybody else does, theyactually will not be able to
compete or they will not be ableto combat the way that they're
designed to, the way thatthey're supposed to.
They need to discipline life, alife that actually sets them up
for success in their whatevertheir given sport is or whatever
their given battle is.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So yeah, one way Dallas Willard talks about that
is if you were to try toreplicate hitting the ball out
of the park.
You know hitting a home run andyou watch your favorite
baseball player I'm out here inLA.
It might be Otani one of the,you know, generational talents.
It seems like you studyeverything about his batting
form, the way he swings the bat,and you match all that.
You're still not going to hitthe ball out of the park.
(18:49):
If there's a professionalpitcher, you know throwing the
ball toward you.
Why?
Because there's working outbehind the scenes, there's
practicing, engaging thepitchers on his team.
There's so much backgroundstuff that if you were to just
replicate the action of hittingthe ball out of the park, you
wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
That's actually a really important point because
if you think about a lot ofthings that we value in our
lives whether it's the work thatwe do, the academics that we
were involved in, the, the waythat we take care of our lawn,
um, the fact that we put that wehave three meals a day all of
those things are are quoteunquote rules.
They're structures that we putinto our life and into our
(19:29):
practices because we believethey help us to thrive and we
don't think of them asconstraints.
We don't kind of whine and golike, oh, you're giving me more
to do.
We go like, well, I mean, ormaybe we do when we're talking
about mowing the lawn, but youknow.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
But I want to have a nice lawn or to compete with my
neighbors, you know whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Well, we, we recognize, right, like I need to
take care of my lawn If I wantto get lawn, a farmer recognizes
, like the farmer's a greatexample.
Like we'll, we'll not livetheir, their year without
abiding by the rhythms they needto live by in order to
cultivate a healthy field.
So, all right, I think you guysare with us.
So we're going to, we're goingto move on to let's, let's just
talk for a minute about, um, uh,rule of life in recovery.
(20:07):
Um, but, but, before we do that, just, let's, just, we're just
going to throw out, and James I,but before we do that, we're
just going to throw out, andJames I invite you to throw out
too.
What are some of the piecesthat make up a rule of life or
that could make up a rule oflife?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, I actually wanted to ask you that because I
think examples would help me.
Could you actually share first,Josh?
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Because I want to make sure I'm thinking of it the
exact same way you are.
Yeah, I mean, you used the wordspiritual disciplines earlier.
I think that, like I grew upwith the spiritual discipline of
, like you know, daily we calledit a quiet time or devotional
time with the lord, whichincluded reading scripture,
studying scripture and prayer.
Sometimes people break it downfurther and say, during the
prayer time, we're going to dothese certain kinds of prayers,
(20:52):
like we're going to, we're goingto worship god.
We're going to do these certainkinds of prayers Like we're
going to, we're going to worshipGod daily.
We're going to adore God daily.
We're going to make requests ofGod daily.
What are the daily needs thatwe're dealing with?
Um, for example?
Um, same with scripture, theremight be other, like specific
rules that people have abided bythere, like I'm going to.
You know, I don't just opensomewhere randomly every day and
(21:12):
read you know a little bit ofthis, a little bit of that.
Um, I know some people who are,who are adamant about reading
through all of scripture in ayear.
Uh, I personally right now amspending a year in two books of
the Bible Psalms and John.
Um, I'm sorry, that's not true.
I got that wrong.
The Psalms and the, and thefour gospels, matthew, mark,
(21:34):
luke and John, um, uh, with adevotional that I'm using, uh,
spending the whole year just inthose, that's.
That's where I'm parking forthe year.
Um, I know another brother whoreads a proverb every day.
That's part of his, his role,so, so anyway.
So prayer, scripture, um, othersmight be things like silence
and solitude.
Those don't necessarily have togo together, but they often do.
(21:55):
Silence, just being gettingquiet with Jesus, might be for
five minutes, might be for anhour, might be for a day.
I know people have taken weeklong silent retreats.
I've never done that.
It probably do me real good.
Solitude, spending time alonewith Jesus, and, interestingly,
if you're an introvert, thatmight really really appeal to
you.
If you're an extrovert it mightnot and it might be something
(22:18):
that an introvert wouldn't wantto major in, but it's certainly
something that an extrovertmight still need.
Fasting is another.
We'll talk a little more aboutthat in a minute.
Fasting meaning specificallyabstaining from food for a set
period of time, a long enoughset period of time that you
actually get hungry.
I fasted for the last fiveminutes.
(22:38):
You know, after dinner, umconfession, um fellowship, so
Sunday service is something thata lot of us do.
Um, yeah, so those are.
Those are some examples.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Uh, sabbath is another times of rest, so what
would you add what other kinds Iactually, as you're talking,
I'm like I actually think Ilisted these out over the years,
so I have one from 2020.
I have one from 2023.
And now I think it's time I doone for right now, cause I one
of the things I'm highlightingthere is it can change over time
, it can shift depending onneeds and circumstances.
Right, for good reasons.
(23:13):
Right.
So right now, what's really beengiving me life in this idea of
a rule of life are a few things.
One is daily 30 minute,sometimes an hour walk with God.
When I first wake up, I willfall back asleep.
If I try to get into the chairfor a quiet time or prayer time
or whatever.
I go on a walk.
(23:33):
I've heard of other Christiansdoing this and that is actually
a place for me to get myemotions in touch with God.
So it's like it's not just like, hey, I want to pray through
this list, it's like God, thisis what I'm going through.
These are things I haven'tprocessed yet.
I often use the Lord's prayeras a broad template, like to
kind of guide me through, butthat's been super life-giving.
(23:56):
I've also been doing a form ofLectio when I get home from that
to again, but this is from theGaultiers.
I learned it from my leadpastor, but he got it from this
ministry called Soul Shepherding, led by the Gaultiers, and it's
a short version of Lectio withjust three questions, as you
read the scripture slowly threetimes to help get in.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Lectio Divina is what you've got.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, yeah, so sacred slow and sacred yeah, slow,
sacred reading, like reading andsaying Holy Spirit, would you
minister to me and highlightstuff?
So the first reading is likehighlight a word.
The second one, though, forthis type of Lectio, is like
what feelings or situations inmy life connect with this word
in this passage?
And then the third is like Lord, what do you want to say to me
(24:40):
about it and how you know?
So it's, it's become a prettydynamic space that I've found
like okay, I'm actually learninghow to like get my emotions in
touch with God.
One other thing that's reallybeen key and I'll stop after
this I've broken mine down intodaily, weekly, monthly, yearly
in the past when I've writtenthis, but one of the things
that's become really key isfinding time for fitness,
(25:04):
physical fitness.
I was just telling Josh, beforewe got on, I've been in the
habit of weightlifting, whichcould be really helpful for the
way our muscles hold stress in,and if you're in a healing
ministry, like what we do, we'renot perfect at not taking on
stress At least I'm not and sofinding a way to work out in a
(25:24):
way that's actually life-giving,but also doing cardio, I've
found, is actually really goodfor my mental health, and those
things give me more energy forthe work I do.
They give me more energy toconnect with God.
I'm often either learningthrough a podcast or a book
while I'm working out, or justlistening to music and letting
my mind wander, maybe praying asI go.
So I don't know.
(25:44):
It's just been interesting tofind these different spaces to
really I don't know pursueflourishing right, Like things
that are actually helping me to.
They're not things that I dread.
I guess that's what I'm tryingto highlight.
Like there's been times whereI'm like okay, I got to have the
daily quiet time, I got to wakeup at six, sit in my chair and
do it, and there's nothing wrongwith that, but for me that was
not actually working well.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
James, let me ask you this question.
I want to dig into that lastthing.
You said a lot, cause I, Ithink one of the people, can go
sideways on rule of life.
Yeah, um, in in that way.
I mean even if, even if theyunderstand what you know rule as
trellis or trellis of life orwhatever, but I think it can, I
find in my life that it can.
I can get so easily confusedabout why I'm doing this.
(26:29):
I mean, even just day to day,like I'm, you know, almost like
this is supposed to what in mylife, like, um, so, so when you
say it wasn't helpful for you,like in what ways have you found
doing some spiritualdisciplines for X, y and Z
reasons actually wasn't helpfulin helping you be with Jesus,
(26:51):
walk with Jesus and do thethings that Jesus did, wasn't
helpful?
in helping you be with Jesus,walk with Jesus and do the
things that Jesus did.
And yeah, okay, so, hey, sowe're going to talk more about
the rule of life, but we'regoing to cut it for this week.
So, what you take what you'veheard so far and and go with it.
Just walk with it a little bit,see if you can kind of find
some places in your life whereyou might introduce an idea or
(27:12):
two or take out something or twoor talk to your community about
it.
Just, you know, noodle on alittle bit.
We'll pick up next week becausewe've got a lot more to say
about rule of life.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
And I'll close in just a brief word of prayer,
lord.
I just pray that you would giveus wisdom as we consider these
things, as we consider thingsyou're inviting us into, and how
to even think about spiritualpractices, spiritual disciplines
.
Grow our wisdom and grow ourjoy in connecting with you
through these things.
Pray this in the name of theFather and of the Son of the
(27:43):
Holy Spirit, amen.
Amen.
Hey friends, we want to get into a topic today that
has kind of I don't know.
I don't even know how toexplain it.
I was trying to do this beforeand I tried to start before, but
let me say it this way One ofmy passions is that people who
are struggling in the area ofsexuality whether their own
unwanted sexual behaviors, thethings they're attracted to and
(00:20):
they're not sure why, somebodyelse in their family who has
gone off the rails, either aspouse or partner, who has been
unfaithful, um or uh, a kid whohas embraced the ideas of the
culture and is has becomeprodigal in that way, uh, one of
one of my passions is thatfolks in those situations
discover that what Christianityoffers them, what Jesus offers
(00:45):
them, is actually enough, thathe himself is the savior.
There's no place in their livesthat is exempted from the
reality that Jesus can save us.
And so I love, I love, I lovewhen I find resonance between
best practices, when it comes tosexual addiction recovery, for
example, and good Christianspirituality.
(01:06):
It's kind of an underlying theme, I think, in what regeneration
tries to do, because we believethat Jesus really is the savior
of the world, including peoplewho struggle with all sorts of
things.
So, with that in mind, today wewant to talk about an ancient
spiritual idea of a spiritualrule of life.
Spiritual idea of a spiritualrule of life, and we're going to
(01:29):
tie it into something that youneed in your own journey, your
own recovery journey and, uh,and I hope you see in this that
you are just one of everybodyyou you are, you're like
everybody else on the planet whoneeds something like this.
So, um, with me today, jamesCraig, one of our spiritual
coaches and our director ofprojects, james, good to see you
Everyone.
James, when you hear the wordsrule of life, what comes to mind
for you?
Well, I wonder.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
First, if people are like okay, rules, I don't know
if I want more rules coming intothis Yep, it's better than that
.
Just wait and see.
It's better than that.
What comes to my mind and Idon't have a succinct definition
, as you know, but like thingsthat we do on a regular basis,
like kind of we map out you knowI love maps and I'm very
(02:11):
spatial but kind of map out whatwe need to live this Christian
life, to flourish, Maybe that'sthe way to put it.
I said optimize earlier when wewere talking offline, like a
millennial would.
But more than self optimization, this is about living a
flourishing life.
Like it makes me think of thatidea from the church, father
(02:34):
Irenaeus, I believe, who saysthat the glory of God is a man
fully alive, of course, or awoman fully alive.
The glory of God is when we arefully alive in God.
Alive, the glory of God is whenwe are fully alive in God.
So, like, how do we get there?
Like you know, I'm also verysystematic, so I think rule of
life can be one of those ways wemove toward that.
That flourish, flourishing,that displaying of the glory of
(02:55):
God.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, Good, that's great, it's actually it's.
It's, uh, and I appreciate youbrought up the idea of the rule
and how, um, most of us, or manyof us, uh, will bristle at that
, Like you know, wait, wait,this is Christianity.
We're not introducing morerules, are we?
Uh, which whole conversationswe can have around that alone.
Um, the idea of a rule of life,the, that idea, rule, that word
(03:20):
rule actually comes from Idon't know what, is it Latin or
something, but originally it'sequated with more like the idea
of a trellis.
When you're trying to grow aplant, you use a trellis to hold
the plant up so that as itgrows, the weight of the fruit
doesn't pull the plant down tothe ground, where animals will
eat it, rot, will get it, thosekinds of things, and so the more
(03:43):
robust your plant is, the morefruitful your plant is, the
higher, stronger you need thetrellis, and spiritual fathers
and mothers have recognized thatin the spiritual life we
actually need supports so thatwe can flourish.
Some of you will bristle at thata little bit.
Go, wait, wait, that sounds alittle bit like you're saying
(04:04):
that Jesus isn't enough, thatgrace isn't enough.
Not saying that.
We're not saying that.
What we are saying is, if Icould put it this way, is this
that Jesus really cares God?
It is a fundamental reality forGod that he will not say yes
for us.
Say yes for us that if we, ifwe want him, he is available to
(04:29):
us, but he will not forcehimself on us.
And so spiritual practices,spiritual disciplines, those
kinds of things that will makeup a rule of life, they'll make
up the trellis that helps us togrow and we'll get into that
more in a minute are reallyplaces and spaces we put
ourselves where we are sayingyes to God.
They're they're places in ourschedule.
They are practices that we doto help open us to God.
It's a kind of a each one mightbe our own individual kind of
(04:50):
yes to the Lord, all right, sotrack with us there.
If you're still not sure, it'sokay, stick with us.
Let me give a definition here.
Actually and I'm going to stealthis directly from um, uh, a
ministry called practicing theway, led by oh, it's gone.
Where did I?
What'd I do with it?
I just I just yes.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Um, uh, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I'm going to type it in, if you can hear me typing on
the on the thing, that's.
That's the way it goes.
Um, yeah, john Mark Homer has aministry called Practicing the
Way and he helps us to frame upwhat a rule of life is and what
practices he believes should bea part of everybody's rule of
life.
But I want to read hisdefinition specifically about
rule of life what a rule of lifeis, and I think it'll help to
(05:38):
consider how does this apply toyou and your recovery journey,
the recovery of your marriage,the recovery of your own
integrity?
How do these things apply?
So just kind of go ahead of methere.
So this is what he says about arule of life is a schedule and
(06:01):
set of practices and relationalrhythms that help us create
space in our busy world for usto be with Jesus, become like
Jesus and do what Jesus did.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Okay, a rule of life is a schedule that's powerful.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
It's got a lot there.
Rule of life is a schedule anda set of practices and
relational rhythms that help uscreate space in our busy world.
That's my version of yes tocreate spaces for yes, in our
busy world for us to be withJesus, become like Jesus and do
what Jesus did.
He goes on a little bit further, but he also says this while
the word rule may strike you asa stricter, binding constraint,
(06:39):
the Latin I was right about thatthe Latin word we translate
rule was originally the word fora trellis in a vineyard.
So there you go.
All right.
So, james, take it back for asecond, um, what are you hearing
in there, and maybe even get alittle bit ahead of us, um, but
let's actually don't don't goahead of us to the recovery work
yet, but just just in the realmof um, people in general, what
(07:01):
do you, what do you think?
What do you see as the value ofa rule of life?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
this kind of trellis, these, this, this uh, schedule
and set of practices andrelational rhythms that help
create space in our busy worldfor us to be with jesus I've
heard that, uh, discipleshipwhich might be where we get the
word discipline, from which I'msure we'll unpack some of
spiritual discipline, languageor practices but discipleship is
learning to do what Jesus did,like learning to obey and love
(07:29):
Jesus, to lovingly obey Jesus Ithink I've heard it said.
So there's something about.
There's like a last stanzathere I should have in front of
me too but there's somethingabout like becoming like Jesus,
walking with Jesus, doing whathe did and we see Jesus doing
things that you could call partof your role of life, like going
off to pray and likerecognizing that we are formed
(07:52):
as we participate with him indoing the things he did.
That feels like a reallyimportant idea.
Like we're being sanctifiedstill by grace, but like we're
engaging it, we're walking in it, we're opening the gift, and
part of that is what he'smodeled and part of that is
doing it with him.
I think that's actually reallykey.
(08:13):
Like maybe we'll talk aboutthis later, but many times we
get stuck in spiritual practicesbecause we're not able to
relationally connect with himwhile reading the Bible or doing
different things.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
But becoming like him in that process, that's good,
yeah, yeah, let me give those toyou again.
So the reason for these is tobe with Jesus, become like Jesus
and do what Jesus did.
And, by the way, we'll have awe'll link to this specific part
of John Mark Homer's sitepracticing the way, um, in the
show notes.
Uh, it's in.
(08:44):
He has actually has a link hereon how to create your own rule
of life, um, that some of youmay want to take advantage of.
Um, yeah, I, I.
One of the things that comes tomind for me is is this that that
we live in a world that has, uh, lots of rules of life, lots of
their own trellises for thekind of fruit that the world
would like to produce in you, um.
(09:06):
So, for example, we live in a,in a consumeristic culture at
least here in the West, we hadvery consumeristic culture, um,
and we have lots and lots andlots of trellises around us
supporting that we would bebuyers, that we would buy things
, that we would see things, wantthem, buy them, see things,
want them, believe we need themand buy them.
It's hard to get through a day,let alone a week, let alone a
(09:29):
month, certainly, let alone ayear in the United States
without seeing something newthat you never thought you might
need or never thought you mightwant and not think.
Hmm, that might be really good,that might bring me life, that
might make me more of the personI hope to be.
So we're surrounded by rules oflife everywhere, uh, and, and
part of what we're trying to getafter in this podcast is is
(09:49):
that Jesus, too, invites us tobecome like him, to be with him,
become like him, live like hedid.
And it's not going to happenjust by floating along with the,
with the, the current of theculture, because the current of
the culture has its own designfor the, for what it believes we
are meant to be, who itbelieves we're meant to spend
our time with and what itbelieves we were supposed to be
(10:10):
doing with our days.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
So, instead of you're kind of saying that, even if we
don't map it out, even if we'renot thoughtful about it, we are
being swept into rules of life.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
We're following rules of life, even if we're not
trying to.
I think so.
I think so.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
about that.
Yeah Well, even as you'retalking, I'm like you know, if
we think about the normalpractices in our life, like if
you were to really think aboutit, if you looked at the last
seven days, what would it wouldyou be able to map on your
calendar?
My rule of life is watchingnetflix from 8 pm to 11 pm every
night, or you know what I mean.
Like, yeah, it's almost like ifwe were to actually map out
(10:47):
what we're currently living bythe trellises in our lives, we
might actually see some realconsistency.
And, like you're saying, withthe shopping thing, like we're
inundated, in part because ofmaybe watching stuff like ads
come through into our homes andwhatnot, but we're inundated
with things that we haven'tmaybe even considered.
Like these are structures inour lives that are impacting us.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think I think like one way,
another way to think coming atthis whole thing is that is that
God has designed us ascreatures of habit, that we're
actually wired neurologically todevelop habits that help us to
move along.
I mean, one of the exampleswe've given in the past is the
idea of, like, if you walk intoa room a hundred times and reach
(11:30):
for the light switch a hundredtimes, by the 101th time you
don't even have to look, youknow where to reach and you just
flip on the light switch.
I know, when we moved offices afew years ago, every time I'd
go into the little kitchenetteI'd reach, without even thinking
about it, reach to the right toflip on the light switch, and
it was on the left.
Why did I do that?
Well, because I had beenhabitualized to reach for the,
(11:51):
for the light switch on theright, cause that's where it
reason behind god's design.
That way is that is that ithelps us to be able to do more
stuff and to not have to spendtime thinking all the time about
how much of the light I want.
Like be a pretty laborious lifeif we'd never learned to walk,
and every time we did.
We had to think about what was,you know, left, right, like.
But no, we're creatures of habit.
(12:11):
We learn it, we can do it, wegrow in the spiritual life.
The same same principles aretrue, are true, relation to the
same principles are true.
But when we develop thosehabits and they're not healthy,
or they lead us to be withpeople that aren't healthy and
to become people aren't healthyand to do things that are
unhealthy, then the habits workagainst us and those are what,
you know, we might kind of, incommon nomenclature, call
(12:33):
unhealthy habits or bad habits.
Um and so why?
They put it in ways sorry, youknow, rule of life.
In a real way it's just kind oflike hey, I want to develop
healthy, godly habits in my life.
I want the routines that kindof come out of me naturally to
be things that that are good forme, Can I, can I nerd out on
brain science just for a secondyeah?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
yeah, yeah please, I love what you do.
So I've heard from Jim Wilder,who calls himself a
neurotheologian, a lot of greatstuff that he has.
But the left brain refreshes atlike five times a second.
So five Hertz if you know thatword, that physics word, hertz,
not five Hertz, five refreshes asecond.
The right brain's faster sixHertz, six refreshes.
So it's always going to befaster to go right to left.
(13:16):
But then once you have whitematter, that's all gray matter.
When we have white matter formthrough habits, it's so much
stronger, it's less malleable,isn't changeable as easily and
it can go at I think is it 300times a second or like it's
something unreal fast.
Um, it might be 300 timesfaster than the left brain,
(13:36):
whatever it was.
Once we actually form that graymatter into white matter
through habits, we moveincredibly fast.
That's why Elon Musk hasn't yetfigured out how to make
self-driving cars faster thanthe human brain, because it's
actually so fast.
But one of the things I want toquickly tie this to a lot of
times when I hear this stuff I'mlike, okay, that's the brain.
(13:57):
But we're also talking aboutspiritual formation, like what
do we do with that?
And I'm just thinking back toliterally the episode with
Elizabeth Wanning that will haveaired about a month ago at this
point that I just recorded withher.
She talks about how we're notas divided and I think John
Marcoma you've said says this aswell our spirits and our bodies
are not as divided as we thinkand arguably, if you take cs
(14:20):
lewis's line of thought, thatthe little decisions we make are
making us more a creature ofheaven or a creature of hell
over time, that white matter,even though I don't know how
it'll transition into the newheavens and new earth, god god
knows the details of all that.
Maybe, maybe there's people whoknow more than I do, but
there's still somethingreleasing.
I know I'm saying brain matter,but that matters.
(14:43):
That is, actually making animpact on your soul and on your
spirit yeah, I love that, yeah,I mean it.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
And those listening who wrestle with unwanted sexual
behaviors, you, you know thisexperientially.
I mean you know something comesacross your purview.
You are not thinking about x, yand z or a little bit cliche
here, but you're not thinkingabout triple x.
And then suddenly you are, andit's's not because you you made
(15:13):
a conscious decision to go thatdirection, it's because you're
that you've learned.
Your brain, your body havelearned over time that when a
happens, b happens, triple Xhappens, like that's the way
your body's learned it, and sopart of recovery is teaching
your brain and body to learnsomething different.
And and we've, in all thatwe've talked about with
spiritual rule of life so farand habits so far, we've kind of
(15:36):
left out even that.
They're that actually it's notjust um, neutral forces working
upon you or you know differentoptions working apart there.
There are literally, accordingto jesus, malevolent forces that
are working upon you to try toget you to develop habits that
direct your life away from God,away from being with God, away
(15:57):
from being like God, away fromdoing the things that God would
have you do.
And, um, we're, we're talkingabout, you know, the world, the
flesh and the devil the unholyTrinity has some have called it
the world, the flesh and thedevil um, actually do not want
you to follow Jesus.
And so, um, and this is truefor every Christian, but we
certainly have can experience iteven in our, in our, in a very
(16:19):
bodily sense, as we're wrestlingwith sexual sins.
Or, if you're listening, and,hey, sexual sin is not my
problem, but it is my, myspouse's problem, um, you know
it from some of the learnedresponses you have to your
spouse as you're trying torebuild trust with him or her.
Um, there are some things thathave happened to you, around you
, experience you've had thatmake it difficult for you to
(16:40):
walk in peace with Jesus, tokeep your eyes on him, um, et
cetera, et cetera.
So this idea of rule of life isis really not to give you more
to do, it is really to try toset you up for more freedom.
And again, if you've alreadygot a rule of life, let me say
differently you already do havea rule of life, and there may be
(17:01):
malevolent forces that haveintroduced their rule of life
for you that you're living with.
That's not pointing a finger atyou, it's just saying hey,
welcome to living in a fallenworld, and so Jesus is inviting
you to a different way.
So a couple of biblicalexamples here I think about.
(17:22):
It's not hard to think aboutJesus.
The gospel writers talked abouthow he had a habit of getting up
early while it was still darkand going away to pray by
himself.
So that was a part of Jesus'srule of life.
Jesus would go to the temple.
That was a part of his rule oflife.
Jesus gathered 12 people aroundhim to live with him, to walk
with him, to be with him all thetime.
That was a part of his rule oflife and might suggest it was a
(17:49):
part of the rule of life he wasinviting them into also.
Might also think here of whatPaul writes to Timothy when he
compares discipleship to thelife of an athlete or the life
of a soldier and he reallychallenges Timothy basically
like don't intermingle with kindof the ways that just the world
flows here.
Consider yourself like anathlete or consider yourself
like a military person whorecognizes that if they do what
(18:10):
everybody else does, theyactually will not be able to
compete or they will not be ableto combat the way that they're
designed to, the way thatthey're supposed to.
They need to discipline life, alife that actually sets them up
for success in their whatevertheir given sport is or whatever
their given battle is.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So yeah, one way Dallas Willard talks about that
is if you were to try toreplicate hitting the ball out
of the park.
You know hitting a home run andyou watch your favorite
baseball player I'm out here inLA.
It might be Otani one of the,you know, generational talents.
It seems like you studyeverything about his batting
form, the way he swings the bat,and you match all that.
You're still not going to hitthe ball out of the park.
(18:49):
If there's a professionalpitcher, you know throwing the
ball toward you.
Why?
Because there's working outbehind the scenes, there's
practicing, engaging thepitchers on his team.
There's so much backgroundstuff that if you were to just
replicate the action of hittingthe ball out of the park, you
wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
That's actually a really important point because
if you think about a lot ofthings that we value in our
lives whether it's the work thatwe do, the academics that we
were involved in, the, the waythat we take care of our lawn,
um, the fact that we put that wehave three meals a day all of
those things are are quoteunquote rules.
They're structures that we putinto our life and into our
(19:29):
practices because we believethey help us to thrive and we
don't think of them asconstraints.
We don't kind of whine and golike, oh, you're giving me more
to do.
We go like, well, I mean, ormaybe we do when we're talking
about mowing the lawn, but youknow.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
But I want to have a nice lawn or to compete with my
neighbors, you know whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Well, we, we recognize, right, like I need to
take care of my lawn If I wantto get lawn, a farmer recognizes
, like the farmer's a greatexample.
Like we'll, we'll not livetheir, their year without
abiding by the rhythms they needto live by in order to
cultivate a healthy field.
So, all right, I think you guysare with us.
So we're going to, we're goingto move on to let's, let's just
talk for a minute about, um, uh,rule of life in recovery.
(20:07):
Um, but, but, before we do that, just, let's, just, we're just
going to throw out, and James I,but before we do that, we're
just going to throw out, andJames I invite you to throw out
too.
What are some of the piecesthat make up a rule of life or
that could make up a rule oflife?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, I actually wanted to ask you that because I
think examples would help me.
Could you actually share first,Josh?
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Because I want to make sure I'm thinking of it the
exact same way you are.
Yeah, I mean, you used the wordspiritual disciplines earlier.
I think that, like I grew upwith the spiritual discipline of
, like you know, daily we calledit a quiet time or devotional
time with the lord, whichincluded reading scripture,
studying scripture and prayer.
Sometimes people break it downfurther and say, during the
prayer time, we're going to dothese certain kinds of prayers,
(20:52):
like we're going to, we're goingto worship god.
We're going to do these certainkinds of prayers Like we're
going to, we're going to worshipGod daily.
We're going to adore God daily.
We're going to make requests ofGod daily.
What are the daily needs thatwe're dealing with?
Um, for example?
Um, same with scripture, theremight be other, like specific
rules that people have abided bythere, like I'm going to.
You know, I don't just opensomewhere randomly every day and
(21:12):
read you know a little bit ofthis, a little bit of that.
Um, I know some people who are,who are adamant about reading
through all of scripture in ayear.
Uh, I personally right now amspending a year in two books of
the Bible Psalms and John.
Um, I'm sorry, that's not true.
I got that wrong.
The Psalms and the, and thefour gospels, matthew, mark,
(21:34):
luke and John, um, uh, with adevotional that I'm using, uh,
spending the whole year just inthose, that's.
That's where I'm parking forthe year.
Um, I know another brother whoreads a proverb every day.
That's part of his, his role,so, so anyway.
So prayer, scripture, um, othersmight be things like silence
and solitude.
Those don't necessarily have togo together, but they often do.
(21:55):
Silence, just being gettingquiet with Jesus, might be for
five minutes, might be for anhour, might be for a day.
I know people have taken weeklong silent retreats.
I've never done that.
It probably do me real good.
Solitude, spending time alonewith Jesus, and, interestingly,
if you're an introvert, thatmight really really appeal to
you.
If you're an extrovert it mightnot and it might be something
(22:18):
that an introvert wouldn't wantto major in, but it's certainly
something that an extrovertmight still need.
Fasting is another.
We'll talk a little more aboutthat in a minute.
Fasting meaning specificallyabstaining from food for a set
period of time, a long enoughset period of time that you
actually get hungry.
I fasted for the last fiveminutes.
(22:38):
You know, after dinner, umconfession, um fellowship, so
Sunday service is something thata lot of us do.
Um, yeah, so those are.
Those are some examples.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Uh, sabbath is another times of rest, so what
would you add what other kinds Iactually, as you're talking,
I'm like I actually think Ilisted these out over the years,
so I have one from 2020.
I have one from 2023.
And now I think it's time I doone for right now, cause I one
of the things I'm highlightingthere is it can change over time
, it can shift depending onneeds and circumstances.
Right, for good reasons.
(23:13):
Right.
So right now, what's really beengiving me life in this idea of
a rule of life are a few things.
One is daily 30 minute,sometimes an hour walk with God.
When I first wake up, I willfall back asleep.
If I try to get into the chairfor a quiet time or prayer time
or whatever.
I go on a walk.
(23:33):
I've heard of other Christiansdoing this and that is actually
a place for me to get myemotions in touch with God.
So it's like it's not just like, hey, I want to pray through
this list, it's like God, thisis what I'm going through.
These are things I haven'tprocessed yet.
I often use the Lord's prayeras a broad template, like to
kind of guide me through, butthat's been super life-giving.
(23:56):
I've also been doing a form ofLectio when I get home from that
to again, but this is from theGaultiers.
I learned it from my leadpastor, but he got it from this
ministry called Soul Shepherding, led by the Gaultiers, and it's
a short version of Lectio withjust three questions, as you
read the scripture slowly threetimes to help get in.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Lectio Divina is what you've got.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, yeah, so sacred slow and sacred yeah, slow,
sacred reading, like reading andsaying Holy Spirit, would you
minister to me and highlightstuff?
So the first reading is likehighlight a word.
The second one, though, forthis type of Lectio, is like
what feelings or situations inmy life connect with this word
in this passage?
And then the third is like Lord, what do you want to say to me
(24:40):
about it and how you know?
So it's, it's become a prettydynamic space that I've found
like okay, I'm actually learninghow to like get my emotions in
touch with God.
One other thing that's reallybeen key and I'll stop after
this I've broken mine down intodaily, weekly, monthly, yearly
in the past when I've writtenthis, but one of the things
that's become really key isfinding time for fitness,
(25:04):
physical fitness.
I was just telling Josh, beforewe got on, I've been in the
habit of weightlifting, whichcould be really helpful for the
way our muscles hold stress in,and if you're in a healing
ministry, like what we do, we'renot perfect at not taking on
stress At least I'm not and sofinding a way to work out in a
(25:24):
way that's actually life-giving,but also doing cardio, I've
found, is actually really goodfor my mental health, and those
things give me more energy forthe work I do.
They give me more energy toconnect with God.
I'm often either learningthrough a podcast or a book
while I'm working out, or justlistening to music and letting
my mind wander, maybe praying asI go.
So I don't know.
(25:44):
It's just been interesting tofind these different spaces to
really I don't know pursueflourishing right, Like things
that are actually helping me to.
They're not things that I dread.
I guess that's what I'm tryingto highlight.
Like there's been times whereI'm like okay, I got to have the
daily quiet time, I got to wakeup at six, sit in my chair and
do it, and there's nothing wrongwith that, but for me that was
not actually working well.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
James, let me ask you this question.
I want to dig into that lastthing.
You said a lot, cause I, Ithink one of the people, can go
sideways on rule of life.
Yeah, um, in in that way.
I mean even if, even if theyunderstand what you know rule as
trellis or trellis of life orwhatever, but I think it can, I
find in my life that it can.
I can get so easily confusedabout why I'm doing this.
(26:29):
I mean, even just day to day,like I'm, you know, almost like
this is supposed to what in mylife, like, um, so, so when you
say it wasn't helpful for you,like in what ways have you found
doing some spiritualdisciplines for X, y and Z
reasons actually wasn't helpfulin helping you be with Jesus,
(26:51):
walk with Jesus and do thethings that Jesus did, wasn't
helpful?
in helping you be with Jesus,walk with Jesus and do the
things that Jesus did.
And yeah, okay, so, hey, sowe're going to talk more about
the rule of life, but we'regoing to cut it for this week.
So, what you take what you'veheard so far and and go with it.
Just walk with it a little bit,see if you can kind of find
some places in your life whereyou might introduce an idea or
(27:12):
two or take out something or twoor talk to your community about
it.
Just, you know, noodle on alittle bit.
We'll pick up next week becausewe've got a lot more to say
about rule of life.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
And I'll close in just a brief word of prayer,
lord.
I just pray that you would giveus wisdom as we consider these
things, as we consider thingsyou're inviting us into, and how
to even think about spiritualpractices, spiritual disciplines
.
Grow our wisdom and grow ourjoy in connecting with you
through these things.
Pray this in the name of theFather and of the Son of the
(27:43):
Holy Spirit, amen.
Amen.
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