Giving Regularly: Trading Control for Obedience

Dina, Pastor Seth and Tyler, break down three core truths drawn from Matthew 6, 19, and 25: money reveals our loves, obedience is the antidote to control, and generosity habits reshape who we become. 

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings
podcast, where we dive a littlebit deeper into our message
series and see what we're takingBeyond Sunday.
My name is Dina Newsom, and Ihave two amazing guests today.
Go ahead and introduceyourselves, gentlemen.

SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
You really oversold this.
Like people are Amazing!

SPEAKER_00 (00:22):
You're amazing!

SPEAKER_01 (00:24):
Spider-Man is amazing.
Uh I'm Seth Lit campus director.
You're at the mediocre.
Like, what are you doing?
I'm mediocre man.
I'm out of all the superheroes.

unknown (00:34):
Mediocre man.

SPEAKER_03 (00:35):
My name is Tyler Rolfson, campus director at
Fremont.

SPEAKER_00 (00:39):
And singer extraordinaire.
We were just disgusting anddisgusting.
Disgusting.
We were just disgusting.
I'll try to make my words worktoday.
So I don't know if you guys knowthis, but today is National
Candy Day.
Yes.
National Candy Day, celebratedso soon after Halloween.
I feel like it's about the pointwhere everyone's sick of candy

(01:01):
right now.
That this is an odd time to haveit.
But my question for you iswhat's your favorite candy?
What's your least favoritecandy?
Two-parter.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11):
Yeah.
So I mean, I feel like this isso trite, but like you just
can't top a Reese's peanutbutter cup.
Um, I don't know if you guysagree with that, but that's my
take.
And then I'm not a big coconutfan.
And so is it is it mounds andalmond joy that have coconuts?
Those are so good.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Sometimes you feel like a nut.

SPEAKER_02 (01:32):
Sometimes you don't.

SPEAKER_03 (01:33):
Almond Joy's got nuts.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Oh, but's got nuts.

SPEAKER_02 (01:36):
You don't feel like I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 (01:37):
I'm just gonna say Dina is the one singing right
now.
But no, I just I'm not a big fanof coconut.
And so if if I had to pick acandy to not choose, it'd be
those two.

unknown (01:47):
All right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:48):
All right.
So I do appreciate a goodReese's peanut butter cup.
And like you blend it in aculverse concrete mixer.
Amen.
Vanilla, very good.
Uh, but here's my favorite, andit's kind of like a niche or
niche, depending upon how bougieor fancy it might be.
Uh, whenever you get thoseschool fundraiser candy bars
that are caramel-filled milkchocolate bars, there is

(02:09):
something about those specifickinds of caramel-filled bars.
They're just that is my view ofthe marriage feast of the lamb
that happens here and now beforeeternity.
So that's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
Now, do you think that those go bad?
Because I think I have about adozen of those in the back of my
fridge that my son sold for someschool fundraiser over a year
ago.

SPEAKER_01 (02:30):
So I will say this let us bring those to the next
Beyond Sunday podcast.
I will eat them on air and thenwe'll see what happens.
We'll find out.
That would not be my leastfavorite candy, though, even
though it was a year old.
So here's my least favoritecandy.
There is, I believe, 100 onlypieces of this candy.
It's the peanut butter kind ofcandies that are wrapped in only

(02:52):
orange paper or black paper.
And usually only folks who areover a certain age hand those
out at trick-or-treating.
Oh, yeah.
And it's the same hundred piecesall throughout the world that
just gets recycled fromHalloween to Halloween.

SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
Because no one eats them.
They just pass them along.

SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
It's a very scarce resource in our beloved land.
Yeah.
The uh laws of supply and demanddo not affect the consumption of
this can.
It's like when you would gotrick-or-treating and someone
would give you the popcorn ballsthat no one would ever eat.
They would just go into a bucketwhere dads and moms would dad
and mom tax whatever was in thatbucket, except for that, and

(03:28):
those that other orange andblack wrapped candies.
And then the same mom and dadwould just add laffy taffy to
that for the next year.
And then just on unsuspectingtrick-or-treaters, they would
just like give a king-size barand like all 10 of them would go
in the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 (03:45):
So year after year, these candies get sprinkled
throughout the neighborhooduntil they find their way back
to the original house.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (03:52):
And then the world ends and Jesus comes back.
And that's our eschatology,folks.

SPEAKER_00 (03:59):
All right.
I'm my hands down favorite candyis haribo gummy bears.
And it's got to be haribo.
And I don't even know if that'show you say it.
I say haribo.
I don't know.
I say haribo.
Sounds like hair beau.

SPEAKER_03 (04:11):
You are the host, Nina.
You can say whatever you know,but I say goes.

SPEAKER_00 (04:15):
Those are my favorite.
My second favorite is a veryclose second.
Are we whispering?
I don't know.
I feel like I shouldn't have asecond.
Like it's cheating, but it'smilk duds.

SPEAKER_03 (04:25):
Oh, that's a good choice.

SPEAKER_00 (04:27):
I never buy milk duds.
I will buy gummy bears formyself on occasion.
I never buy milk duds becausethey only come in like the box,
like the movie theater-sizedbox.
I will not eat all of those.
But at Halloween, they come inthe little tiny box where you
only get two or three that arealways stuck together as one.
And my granddaughter remembersthey're my favorite.

(04:47):
So when she goestrick-or-treating, she comes and
brings me all the yellow boxes.

SPEAKER_03 (04:51):
That is true love, right there.

SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
I know.
It's amazing.
My least favorite, whoppers.

SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
I'm with you.
They're not great.

SPEAKER_00 (04:58):
I just, I know.
And no one should hand them outat Halloween.
Children do not like them.
The parents may like them, butthey no one needs them.
It's just a chalky mess.

SPEAKER_03 (05:10):
I bet you could make a really great trade with a
nine-year-old who is looking toget rid of some haribo gummy
bear packs.
And then you're like, exactly.
You're right.
Like was it with oh thewhoppers, yes.
So you have the whoppers, theyhave the haribos trade, win-win.

SPEAKER_00 (05:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, thank you for sharing yourcandy delights with us today.
I feel like we always end uptalking about food on here, and
I don't intend it to be thatway.
This is not the Beyond Food,Beyond Sunday food podcast.
That's a whole nother one.
All right.
So we are in week five.
Am I correct?

(05:45):
Week five of the GivingChallenge.
We've only got one more weekafter this.
And this week we are talkingabout trading control for
obedience.
And Pastor Zach Zender preacheda great message again.
If you have not, uh, were notable to be in a service on
Sunday, go ahead and check thatout in our app or online.
What are you guys taking beyondSunday from this week five of

(06:08):
the giving challenge?

SPEAKER_03 (06:12):
Um Yeah, the the scripture, Zach didn't reference
it.
Well, he he did it in kind of aveiled reference, but it really
stuck with me.
Um Seth helped me out.
Is it Matthew?
Is it Matthew 25, Parable of theTalents, where Jesus says,
whoever has been um, if you'reentrusted with little, faithful
with a little, entrusted withmuch.

(06:33):
Does that sound right to you?
The what you said, yes.
The reference, I I can'tremember specific.

SPEAKER_00 (06:41):
Go back and listen to last week's podcast, because
I referenced to that then, but Idon't remember.

SPEAKER_03 (06:46):
Yeah.
Anyway, but that the, you know,we Zach was talking about habits
and building generosity habits.
And he specifically talked abouthow um it's it's one thing to
have one-time moments ofgenerosity, and it's another
thing to develop the the habitto really strengthen that muscle
for the long term.
And and I was I was just kind ofleft with that impression of

(07:07):
like the the little or the muchthat the Lord entrusts to us is
is often just a reflection of,well, God, have I been faithful
with what you've given me now?
Um and and there we are.
What what do we have right here?
Matthew 25.
Bingo, you nailed it.

SPEAKER_01 (07:27):
I was trying to pass you that so that you could just
pass it off as you knew it.

SPEAKER_03 (07:30):
No, no, Seth, you deserve full credit for pulling
up the Bible reference.
Um But yeah, and so just likethe the idea of um wherever
you're at, building that,building that habit,
strengthening that muscle.
I had a um a pastor uh when Iwas living in Texas for college,

(07:52):
and he he talked about giving uhon a Wednesday night service.
And he said, here's the thing,guys, um it it it's it's the
right thing to do for you guysto start practicing a biblical
tithe.
It's not because the churchneeds your money.
I think Zach even said that onSunday at one point.
He's like, you know, the realityis if you guys even are working
right now, you're making$7.25 anhour working 10 hours a week the

(08:13):
library, right?
Like the church, the church'sbottom line is not going to be
moved by you giving 10%.
But it's that same principle ofif you start doing the habit
now, when the Lord entrusts youwith more, you are going to be
faithful with more.

SPEAKER_01 (08:30):
So for me, what would to be taking beyond Sunday
was like I'm a huge IndianaJones fan.
So when he started with thatillustration, I was very
thankful because I know that Iknow the first three movies,
front to back, side, you know,like that is my jam.
But it made me think ofsomething that as I read through
the scriptures, and I'm sure I'mnot the only one who's thought

(08:52):
that about this before, but uh,when he's talking about at the
beginning of the message, youknow, we're kind of rooting out
idols here.
We're trying to find the hiddenidols that are in your heart,
and money is gonna reveal whatthose hidden idols are.
And uh, so the saying that I'vethought through is you are what
you worship.
And so what you're not gonnakneel down and like put your

(09:13):
hands up and down over money,but what are you thinking about?
What is your anxiety goingtowards?
Your lack of money or yourwanting to gain more money.
Uh, but you actually see thishappening throughout the
scriptures.
So you are what you worship.
And what is it that God's peopleare called when they uh are
perpetually um worshiping falseidols, whatever those idols

(09:35):
might be?
On the one hand, you are whatyou worship and they worship a
golden calf.
So no wonder why it is that theOld Testament consistently uh
refers to God's people in thosemoments as you stiff-necked
people.
Well, what else is gonna be astiff-necked thing?
It's gonna be a bull, it's gonnabe a cow, it's gonna be oxen
that have this giant yoke ontheir shoulders uh because you

(09:58):
are what you worship.
And so you kind of take on thething that you want.
And you kind of see that onceyou start rooting around inside
of your heart, you find all ofthe idols that are there.
And now all of a sudden, likeyou realize how much of the
pursuit of that idol determinedyour identity.
And so for me, uh just having aconstant reminder that yes, that

(10:18):
is true in my sinfulness, but inChrist, I am something far more
valuable than the pursuit ofthese things that are temporary.
So that's what I'm thinkingbeyond Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
Um, I really liked where he talked a little bit
about the Israelites.
And I I find the Israelites andthe whole um their departure
from Egypt and everything thatfollowed, they're idiots and
they're whiny, whiny babies.
And so are we.
I know, but that's what I sitthere and I read it, and I'm
like, oh my gosh, you just gotout of slavery and you're

(10:51):
already complaining.
Oh my gosh, God's giving youmanna from heaven and you're
whining about this.
And then I think, oh gosh, isdoes God look at us and think of
that because, oh my gosh, I justhelped you with this and now
you're complaining about this.
And it's just very, it's such atwin perspective for me to read

(11:11):
about it and to be judgy, judgyof them.
And then to think, oh, that isexactly me.
That is exactly what I'm doing,the complaining about things.
But I just I appreciate bringingit up again.
And in this context of wherethey are turning to an idol and
forgetting about the God wholiterally is feeding them each

(11:33):
day and guiding them through thewilderness.
Um, that it's okay, am Iremembering him then when I'm
turning away or when I'm feelingthe slightest discomfort or
anything like that?
So I really just appreciatedthat reminder of I'm a stupid
person too, like the Israelites.

SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
Do you want to hear a really cool stupid person
moment in that story?
Yes.
And so I'm sure you guys havepicked up on this.
But Moses comes down, seeswhat's going on, sees that they
are like, he goes up there andGod says, I will be your God and
you'll be my people if, and thenhe gives the Ten Commandments.
And the Ten Commandments areactually the stipulation for a
covenant or a contract.

SPEAKER_04 (12:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
Right.
So, number one piece of thecontract, you shall have no
other gods before me.
And what are they doingimmediately?
So, you know, like he gets up,Moses gets upset, cracks the
commandments, and then he likegets after his brother Aaron.
He's like, What?
What are you serious?
And Aaron is like, Well, it justpopped out.

(12:34):
Like, like they gave all of thisgold and everything, and then it
just came out this way.
Like, come on, man.
That so that's to me like thequintessential, like, stupid
person moment of like he gotcalled out on it, and there's no
one to blame but himself.
And he just comes up with thisfour-year-old like understanding
of like, I didn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 (12:52):
It just fell over on its own.

SPEAKER_01 (12:54):
Exactly.
I didn't break it.

SPEAKER_03 (12:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
That's great.

SPEAKER_03 (12:58):
Dina, can I ask you a question that potentially will
embarrass me?

SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
Will it will embarrass you?
And that's well, sure, you canask me something that will
embarrass you.

SPEAKER_03 (13:07):
I think I've seen Raiders of the Lost Ark once,
but it's been a while.
That's embarrassing already.

unknown (13:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (13:12):
No, it's um I didn't even get to the part.
It's okay.
Seth only claimed the firstthree, and there's actually
five.
So I just don't know those onesas well.

unknown (13:19):
That's all.

SPEAKER_03 (13:19):
Anyway, can you can you make the connection for me
of what so is there an is thereis there an idol that Indiana
Jones is searching for?
And you were Seth was justdressed up as Indiana Jones on
Sweet Sunday.
Yeah.
So you guys are both pros atthis.
So take me and any other umpeople that are ignorant and

(13:40):
clearly in need of repentance.

SPEAKER_00 (13:42):
So I think there's like a double answer here.
So like the first answer, thescene that Zach you Zach used is
where he's literally looking forthis golden idol.
And it's not necessarily for themoney.
He is interested in the historyof things.
And so, yes, Indiana is noteveryone else that's involved.
And so it is literally an idolthat he's trying to take.

(14:05):
And then there's the bigexciting scene with the rolling
ball and the people that shootthe little things and blah,
blah, blah.
But the movie is about peoplethat are searching for the Ark
of the Covenant, which is this,you know, holy grail that they
want to find for all the wrongreasons so they can live
forever.
And it doesn't turn out so wellfor them, but yeah, which is a

(14:27):
different kind of idol thatthey're seeking.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (14:31):
Thank you.
I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
You should check them out.

SPEAKER_03 (14:34):
Clearly.
Yeah.
And I I feel like in my owndefense, it was two weeks ago
that I was pulling out Back tothe Future references from all
three movies.
And it isn't that kind of thesame thing.

SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
It is the same time frame.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (14:49):
So I'm both I want to embarrass myself, but also I
want to defend myself inself-righteousness.
Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 (14:54):
Well, you can you can keep your 80s movie sticker.
It's all right.
Your 80s movie badge.

SPEAKER_01 (15:00):
So there's one more part of that scene that I think
is really important when you'rethinking about rooting out your
own idols, right?
So, of course, Indiana Jones isnot trying to get the idol for
himself.
He loves the idea of the historythat it tells of humanity and
the archaeology of it because heteaches archaeology classes and
everything.
So he but he still risks hislife to get this uh this little
idol.
And of course, like you said,arrows are shot at him and the

(15:22):
giant rolling ball almost rollsover him.
He gets out of that temple whereit was housed, stumbles, and
then his nemesis takes it awayfrom him.
And I think that, like, for me,that's one of the most
insightful parts of it is asyou're chasing an idol, you
might grab it for a short timeor whatever it is.
But because we're so finite andso sinful, there's always going

(15:44):
to be someone else out thereworking harder for the idol that
you're trying to dedicate yourlife towards.
And so for me, that's like thatlittle piece of the story.
I was like, oh man, that thathits me hard because how often
do I just orient my life in away that's not Christ-like and
it will go away?
That fleeting happiness orwhatever it might be, your
fulfillment gone within just ashort amount of time.

SPEAKER_03 (16:07):
So here's my you mentioned the um the point.
I think this is Zach's firstpoint, right?
That that money is uh moneyexposes or reveals what you
truly treasure.
And um he mentioned all thesuscripts subscriptions, right?
Um that we uh I think they eventhen then the then the
production team like show likean Apple TV, like of all the of

(16:28):
all the all the apps that wesubscribe to.
I'm like, oh, how ironic is thisthat that same weekend, um, you
know, so we have YouTube TV, andthat was so Dis Disney.
I know you're a big T Disneyfan, um, but potentially in
Disney's greed, they are theyare withholding.
Exactly.
And so Disney is um they they'renot as of I don't know who knows

(16:52):
when this if the if this umdispute will be solved by the
time this podcast airs.
But and as as far as I lastknew, is that Disney was not
allowing any of their programson YouTube TV as of like Friday
of last week.
So no ABC, no none of the ESPNnetworks.
Like as we're getting into acollege football weekend.

(17:14):
And I was like, oh, that's ait's so it's so dumb.
But it's the same thing that'slike just as we can like from
the outside see the dumbness ofthe Israelites, when we're on
the inside of it, we feel soself-justified.
And like when something isremoved, that is another great
reveal of an idol.
Like if you are really feelingit, and like it sounds so dumb,

(17:34):
but like I was like feeling iton Saturday.
I'm like, man, now I only have10 college football games to
watch instead of 16.
But it reveals where your idolsare.
Yes.
And in a in a way that can maybetake a few steps to get there.
But it's like ultimately, it isa really good thing when God, in

(17:56):
his grace, reveals to us what istaking his place.

SPEAKER_00 (18:01):
Just to wrap up the Indiana discussion, number three
is the best movie.
I would agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
So if you haven't watched them, you can watch at
least to number three.

SPEAKER_01 (18:12):
But you have to watch it in the right order.
Yes, you do have to watch it.
Okay.
Anyways, let's get back toJesus.
All right.

SPEAKER_00 (18:20):
How about we talk about God?
Yeah.
So Zach asked a very poignantquestion that I want to ask you.
And he basically asked, Whatdoes your money reveal about
you?
What would you guys say is truefor you in your own life?

SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
Oh my goodness.
When he said that, I was sittingright next to Melinda and I was
like, We eat a lot of food.
There's seven people in ourfamily.
When we look at our expenses,that's what it is.
Uh, but it's not like we're justeating rice and beans either.
So I mean, a lot of it has to dowith uh, yeah, you can justify
just about any expense.

(18:52):
And it's so easy to justify foodexpenses.
But when you actually look atwhat it is, it exposes that, you
know, maybe we could be a maybewe could eat more of those black
and orange wrapped old peanutbutter things and just help with
the world of all hundreds ofthings.

SPEAKER_04 (19:05):
I'll bring some whoppers to your house to it.

SPEAKER_01 (19:08):
But it really does, you know, illustrate that even a
good thing like provision, likefood, can be something that can
be motivated or it can beexposed as an idol.

SPEAKER_03 (19:19):
Yeah, I was thinking back to a sermon that I preached
earlier this year inConnecticut, where we're in
Matthew 6, where this is Jesussaying, you know, don't be
anxious about your life.
And um the the commentary that Iread said that our our
temptation, not even ourtemptation, our reality as
Americans, is that we turn ourour um wants into our needs, and

(19:44):
we turn our luxuries into ourwants.
And so it's like we just kind ofshift everything over to where
it's like the things that areactually quite luxurious and
like they're not bad, but likethe the things that people that
lived 50 years ago or 100 yearsago or live on the other side of
the world would never think ofhaving.

(20:04):
Like, we think, well, that'slike just kind of like a want.
It's like an extension.
Whereas, like, well, of coursewe need YouTube TV, couldn't
possibly survive without that.
And I was just thinking back tothat, like, gosh, you know, if I
think I look at my budget andhow many things are true needs,
it's like the things that Ijustify is like, well, I need
that, I need that.
And like, no, no, you reallydon't.

(20:25):
And and again, it's all thisconversation of like God is not
anti-wealth and um all that sortof thing.
But it's it's just a good checkof like, well, are there some
idols here that would be goodfor me to go through a season of
deprivation to then um to thenactually know what um to

(20:48):
actually know like, man, who ismy provider and and what has he
given me?
And to where I don't I don't mixup my pr my um mix up my
priorities.

SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
That's why I think um I you know different churches
observe different things.
But I think that's why observingsome kind of season of Lent as a
reboot every single year to tryto remove as much additional or
have removed, I should say, amuch as much additional dross in
our life is incredibly healthy.
Uh because Lent often is whatcan I remove from my life that

(21:22):
I've added.
And I didn't even really realizethat this thing, whatever it is,
isn't necessary.
And it's somehow distracting mefrom Christ.
And I just find it's alwayshelpful to have a season to do
that.

SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
My money would reveal that I spoil my
granddaughters too much.

SPEAKER_01 (21:39):
Even the best of things.

SPEAKER_00 (21:41):
Yes.
I think they need it, and Nananeeds to buy it for them.

SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
Oh, you're a Nana?

SPEAKER_00 (21:47):
I'm Nana, yeah.
Grandma sounds too old.
I didn't see it as like a Mimaweither.
So yeah, I really wanted MeeMaw.
I really liked that.
Yeah.
My daughter said no.
What I really one of my bestfriends is her grandchildren
call her queenie, and I wasgoing for that, but my daughter
said no to that too.

SPEAKER_01 (22:05):
Well, kingy sounds weird.
Like I'm never gonna ask forthis one.

SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Yeah, so Nana, I'm Nana.
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah.
All right.
So one of the other points thatZach made was that real
transformation happens whengenerosity becomes a habit.
How did that hit you?
Or how do you find that that hasplayed out in your life?

SPEAKER_03 (22:27):
Yeah, uh the the kind of the daily devotionals
associated with the GivingChallenge kind of focus a lot on
habits.
Um and so I Atomic Habits byJames Clear is never is never a
book I've read, but I feel likeI've listened to enough on
podcasts and heard it referencedin sermons and articles that I
feel like I've kind of read it.

(22:47):
I don't know if you've had thosebefore, Seth.

SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
Particularly that book.

SPEAKER_03 (22:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And and just the it both really,it's just kind of like
psychology and neuroscience kindof affirming what what the Bible
has known all along.
And Zach's been doing a lot inthis series, in that um actually
our our will, our willpower isvery, is very little to be to
accomplish the kinds of thingswe want to do.

(23:12):
And so I think he says it lookhere.
Yeah, 40% of our daily life isdefined by automatic habits, the
things that we just do becauseour our system is conditioned to
it.
Um and so if we're going toexperience what the quote said,
if you're gonna experiencetransformation, right?
Then it it doesn't require justa moment.

(23:33):
It does require like, well, whatdoes it look like to build a
habit?
And I think what I appreciated,Zach acknowledged this.
He's like, this is actuallyprobably the most challenging
ask I'm inviting our campusesinto.
Is, you know, for to do a to doa um a one-time blessing of gift
cards where it's or a one-timegive a gift that like will will

(23:54):
bring you blessing, bringsomeone else blessing.
It's a one-time thing.
But a habit is something that isongoing and you don't see an end
to it.
You don't say, well, I'm gonnagive for a little bit and then
see how it goes.
But no, we're actually gonna tryand make this a regular thing.
Um, Pastor Eugene Peterson uhpassed away a year or two ago,

(24:15):
and his his famous line was a along obedience in the same
direction.
And that's really wheretransformation happens.

SPEAKER_00 (24:21):
Yeah, Zach said, a generous moment does not make a
generous person.
That I that stuck with me.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (24:27):
Well, I just think about it in terms of generosity
is kind of like conditioningyour spirit or your soul to do
the things that like you couldhave to condition your body to
do if you're gonna work out orif you're gonna establish good
habits.
So uh like five months ago, ummaybe even a little bit, no,
right when we moved.

(24:47):
So it was right at the beginningof June, uh, got an
accountability partner, and wesaid that we're gonna read
through the entirety of thescriptures from Genesis through
Revelation in six months.
And motivation will make yousay, that sounds like a good
idea.
But systems and actually settingourselves up to succeed were
were, we were gonna beaccountability partners.
So there was a system to checkin to make sure that it was

(25:10):
gonna be an ongoing habit.
But then I had to look at mylife and I had to remove the
things that would get in the wayof developing that habit.
So I deleted off of my phone allsocial media.
And so, like, it doesn't mean Ideleted my accounts, it just
means I don't have it on myphone.
Is that why my friend requesthas been sitting for four
months, Seth?
No.

(25:30):
Sorry.
For real.
Like, I'm sure there I probablyhave a billion, you know, not
because I'm important, but youmove to a new place and then
people make friend requests andthen they just sit there because
I really don't do too much onit.
To all the Millard campus,Pastor Seth loves you.
He really does.
Yeah.
But anyway, you have to removecertain things so that the

(25:51):
system can work.
And then I had to setnotifications on my phone every
morning at the same time toremind me to do it.
And then on my car ride, after Idrop my son off at school,
before I get here to work,that's my time.
So, like all of those systemsget set up so that like
conditions are right, so that myflesh doesn't take over and that

(26:11):
I continue to meet this goal.
And I think it's gonna be thesame thing for something blessed
and sanctified, like generosity.
In order to do that, we've gotto go through a reboot where we
are stripping a bunch of stuffaway.
The scripture is uh seeing to itthat the spirit moves our hearts
to be exposed to all theproblems that we have, to remove

(26:32):
those things that need to beremoved, like deleting apps.
And we have to have theaccountability of a great group
of Christian people that weresupporting each other.
And we actually have to put thatin a rhythm of worship on
Sundays and connect groups onWednesdays and doing daily
studies in uh the scriptureswith the giving challenge.
So I think that is a hundredpercent accurate because it

(26:53):
addresses our flesh, but then italso sets us up to succeed in
the spirit.
So yeah, generosity is somethingwe got to work on.

SPEAKER_03 (27:00):
Dean, I have a question for you.

SPEAKER_00 (27:01):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (27:02):
Um, so at the end of Zach's message, he listed like
four or five or six kind ofthings you could do, right?
And so we talked about like ablessing fund, that sort of
thing.
You seem like the kind of personthat you heard one of those and
like you really latched on to.
Is was there one that you reallylatched on to?

SPEAKER_00 (27:18):
Giving one to two percent more.
That is a challenge.
I was like, oh, like I kind ofget set in my, I'm very routine,
especially in things like givingor bills or like those financial
things.
I like set and steady.
And I was like, oh, like I kindof hit my mark and I do look at
it each year, like if my incomeor expenses dramatically change.

(27:42):
But I was like, I don't reallypush myself to how much can I
increase this.
So that was the one that jumpedout at me.
And I was like, oh, I couldprobably do that.
And like Zach said, I probablywouldn't even really notice in
the day to day or the week toweek or the month to month.
But over time, what would thatlook like?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (28:00):
I really love that too.
Cause it's yeah, the differencebetween a 10 and 11%, right, is
very marginal.
But then over time, right?

SPEAKER_00 (28:09):
The difference between 10 and 20%.
Exactly.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
Um that's consistent obedience in the same direction.

SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (28:16):
So I love that quote from Eugene Peterson.

SPEAKER_00 (28:18):
Okay, so when Zach got into the middle of his
message, he was talking aboutfrom Matthew 19 the story of the
generous ruler, and he spokeabout three truths, three truths
that kind of come from thisstory.
And I just want to hear yourthoughts on each one of them.
The first one was that moneyexposes what we truly treasure.
How does that resonate with you?

(28:39):
You kind of mentioned italready, Tyler.

SPEAKER_03 (28:42):
Yeah.
The um, did you say the generousruler?

SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
The yes.
Is that oh, that's what I havewritten down.

SPEAKER_03 (28:49):
He was the furthest thing from it.

SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
You can tell I was a little um I was too into the
generosity thing when I wastaking my notes.

SPEAKER_03 (28:59):
In Dina's defense, she's being charitable to the to
the rich young man.

SPEAKER_00 (29:02):
There you go.

SPEAKER_03 (29:06):
Yeah.
Um, I the the I think the thebiggest point, and I think Zach
credited Pastor Tim Keller withthis point, is that he said that
um he thought that money is whatpeople most treasure.
And then and then when Kellerchanged that, Zach's like, oh,
I'm gonna go with that.
And it's totally right, is thatit it's it's simply a a revealer

(29:26):
or an exposer of what weactually of actually what we
actually treasure.
And so if you're wondering, ifyou're out there listener,
wondering, man, what we whatwhat am I valuing?
What could be a potential idol?
Yeah, just look at your creditcard statement, look at your
bank account, kind of see whereyour money, what was the Andy
Stanley quote?
Do it, do the rhythm with therhythm.

SPEAKER_01 (29:48):
Gotta be knowing where your money's going.
Something to that effect.
With the southern drawl, eventhat was the worst Andy Stanley
accent.
Sorry, Andy.
We're we're old friends.

SPEAKER_02 (29:56):
I would say I bet Andy's I bet Andy's the listener
to the Beyonce podcast.

SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Sure.
I'm sure he is.

SPEAKER_01 (30:02):
He and Louis will text me later on today to be
like, come on.

SPEAKER_00 (30:06):
No.
And our listenership just wentup from five to seven.

SPEAKER_03 (30:15):
Um yeah.
And so if to be able to look at,okay, where actually is my money
going, I would also add to thatwhere your time is going.
Like they reveal what yourpriorities are and where your
potential idols are.
Zach put a lot of emphasis onsubscriptions.
But yeah, it might be onentertainment.
It might be on like shopping forthings that you don't actually

(30:37):
need.
Um, it it might be it might beon like just misplaced
priorities, um, but it exposeswhat what is actually under the
surface.

SPEAKER_01 (30:46):
Yeah, I totally see that.
Particularly like when I thinkof the rich family ruler, yes,
money can be a revealer of thesethings.
But I think your time coupledwith your money do that.
And I think that's where a lotof parents need to check their
hearts and their schedule withtheir kids because I think their
kids become their idol, notbecause their kid is like worthy
of worship, but more so theywant a different experience for

(31:08):
their kid than they have forthemselves.
So they've got such a wound thatbecomes their idol that they
then put their child in theplace of the the ultimate focus
of their life.
And I mean, I think who is goingto correct that person for for
loving their kid so much.
And yet, even a good thing canbe warped to be an you know,

(31:28):
like a focus of worship.

SPEAKER_00 (31:30):
Um, I really like Zach talked about you need to
recognize and then replace.
Like that was the things he saidto recognize where it is or
where you're stumbling or whereyour idols are and then replace
it with something better.
That's what really jumped out atme.
All right.
Truth number two is obedience isthe antidote to control.

(31:51):
How did that hit you?

SPEAKER_01 (31:53):
Well, for me, control is something I'm always
seeking.
And uh anxiety comes from nothaving like confirmed that thing
and not having it in my hands.
And so, and I'm not saying likehypothetically, listener, this
is no, I'm saying me personally,control and anxiety and fear all
go hand in hand.

(32:13):
And uh just giving that all upand saying, Lord Jesus, I'm
obedient to whatever your callis on this life.
And my view of it is to go tothe right, and you say to go to
the left, my heart is gonna wantto go to right every single
time.
But obedience to you means eventhough I'm afraid of what's
gonna happen in my life if Idon't go right, and even though
I'm nervous and I'm anxiousabout if I don't go right,

(32:36):
because I might be able toanticipate those things better.
If I go left, there's a bunch ofquestions that I have here.
But if I go left, the onequestion I don't have is are you
gonna be there?
Whereas if I go right, he willbe present, but he may not be
present in grace.
If I go left, I know what kindof presence I can anticipate
being in in him.

(32:56):
And so for me, that is a bigrevealer of control and
obedience.
It's not saying, and the quoteis not saying, if you are
obedient, then you have thefavor of God.
It's if you are obedient, youare coming from the point of an
obedient heart already that hasbeen changed by the gospel.
And that is far more powerfuland it's more illustrative of a

(33:18):
life in Jesus than trying toseek after the control and being
God of your own life to beginwith.
So I uh to me, that was one ofthe most impactful points that
was made.

SPEAKER_03 (33:27):
Yeah, there's such a strong gospel hook when we think
about obedience.
And Zach brought up the idea ofsurrender, which immediately
takes us to you know, Garden ofGethsemane, where you know, talk
about control, right?
Control means is that you youyou what you will gets done.
And Jesus is the one who says,you know, Father, if it's be

(33:49):
possible, take this cup from me.
Nevertheless, not what I will,but what you will, let your will
be done.
And um yeah, all the way back atthe beginning, Adam and Eve,
Genesis 3, what was thetemptation um that you would be
like God, control.

(34:10):
And they disobeyed Jesus, on theother hand, different garden,
different garden, he did obey.
And and so we find ourselvesbaptized in Christ, that Jesus'
obedience has made a way for usto be found in this place of

(34:32):
grace with God.
And like, like Seth said, now onthe other side of the cross and
resurrection, now the Lord isshaping us and molding us to be
the obedient kinds of peoplethat don't need to give in to
that kind of fleshy temptationto control, control, control,
but to live out our identity inChrist and live freely.

SPEAKER_00 (34:55):
Yeah, there's two points that he, Zach said that I
wrote down, and one is to obeyis to release control and
surrender.
And that's something honestly Istruggle with.
I want to keep one hand on thesteering wheel or but God, just
like you're talking about theleft and the right.
Well, can't we go a little bitto the left?
How about the middle?
Just go down the middle.
Want to bargain, argue.
But then the other thing he saidis obedience dethrones idols not

(35:18):
by managing them, but bysurrendering them.
And I was like, okay, that'sjust knocking your idols out.
Like when you're willing to justlet go, they're just gonna be
gone.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (35:29):
And like Zach really emphasized this.
It bears repeating obedienceleads your emotions.
If you're waiting for yourselfto feel obedient, you're never
gonna get there.
But instead, it's like, no, I Iknow this is what God is asking
me to do.
And I know it's the I don'tremember the left direction was

(35:50):
the correct direction.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (35:52):
Like the metaphor.
He couldn't have put the rightway as the right direction, but
no, that's there's sheep andthere's goats.
There you go, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (36:03):
Um I uh detracted myself.
Um but yeah, the the idea ofdethroning idols, giving up
control, um, and and choosingobedience before you feel it and
letting your feelings follow.

unknown (36:22):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (36:23):
And especially in light of giving, where he talked
about you don't have to wait tobe emotionally moved.
You know that this is what Godwants you to do.
Not because, like you kind ofmentioned, not because God needs
your money.
He doesn't need your money, hewants your heart, but because
this is what he tells us, youknow.
But you have to do it logically,not just wait for the emotions.

SPEAKER_01 (36:44):
Yep.
There is a beautiful story thatactually is what we're talking
about.
And it's towards the end ofGenesis, I think it's like
Genesis 37, 37 or 39, where uhJacob finds out that his family
has carried idols with them.
And he doesn't wait for like,um, well, we'll go through some
time and you know, we'll talkabout it.

(37:06):
He just, the moment that hefinds it out, he actually goes
and he gathers up all the idolsof his household.
And then he goes and he putsthem underneath a terebinth
tree, and then the Lord removesthat from their family, and they
go from that point on to being atotally different kind of family
as they follow him.
And I just think that that's abeautiful story because Jacob

(37:27):
and his family were followers ofthe one true God before that.
And yet they still had idolsthat needed to be rooted out.
And I think it's the same thingfor us too, is that I would
assume that the five to sevenlisteners that are here for the
VN Study podcast are followersof the Lord, uh, with Andy
Stanley and Louis Giggle.
Uh but that also means that forus, we're gonna have some
rooting out to do and we'regonna have to find some idols.

(37:48):
And there's a wonderfulterebinth tree.
I don't know what that is, butI'm sure there's one around here
somewhere that needs to be arepository for all those idols
that we start, we have startedfinding out are exposed by our
lack of generosity and ourhunting after money and
everything else that's there.

SPEAKER_00 (38:03):
All right.
So the third truth that Zachtalked about is generosity
habits reshape our hearts.
How does that speak to you?

SPEAKER_03 (38:11):
Yeah, the habit really is the key word there.
Um and even just thinking aboutwhat we just talked about in
terms of um terebinth trees?

SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
Is there a bridge to terebinthia?

SPEAKER_03 (38:23):
How did you know, Seth?
Um But you know, Seth, youmentioned the the habit that you
and your friend were holdingeach other, you're holding
yourself accountable to forreading, reading through the
scriptures and all the systemsyou built for that.
There were probably many dayswhere you weren't feeling it,

(38:44):
but the habit was builtregardless.
Um and then I'd be curious toask where where has the feeling
and where what's the emotionaljourney been?
Because didn't you say earlier,I don't know if it was on the
podcast or pre-like you justfinished the old testament?

SPEAKER_01 (38:59):
Just finished it like two days ago.
And seriously, it was 146straight days or whatever of
being in the word.
And that that's the very pointthat you're talking to is that
depend whatever it is, whetherit's you're praying with the
Lord every day or you'reprioritizing worship every week,
whatever it is, uh, you willfind that your motivation will
always break down, but it'sdiscipline and systems that will

(39:22):
always prop you up because thereare things that are outside of
you that pick you up when theinside of you has failed.

SPEAKER_03 (39:28):
Yeah.
And so the I hope what you onthe other side is hearing is
that regardless of the habityou're looking to cultivate, in
this series, we're talking abouthabits of generosity, is that it
does require these systems thatare beyond just how you're
feeling, and certainly beyond,like, wow, I was really inspired
by this message.
Um, but to dig into your budgetand your bank account and to

(39:53):
look at what is our currentpercentage and what would it
look for us to go from a go froma five to a six percent, or what
what could could we jump to a toa tithe?
Or there's probably some someonelistening here that probably
could and maybe should belooking at their their kind of
legacy beyond, you know, intowhat is what is giving look like
beyond this life.
You know, at the end of um uheach of our um services, we we

(40:17):
have a a slide that shows of allof our campuses that Pastor Greg
has has developed kind of what'scalled our giving ladder, where
kind of wherever you're at, evenif this is your first time here,
you can take a step onto anotherrung of the ladder.
Maybe you've never made afirst-time gift, or maybe you're
looking to make a regular giftor jump up to a percentage, or
starting to say no to somethings in order to say yes more,

(40:38):
yes and yes more to the thingsof God and a sacrificial gift or
legacy.
Um, all of these are habits ofgenerosity that ultimately do
the kind of transformingformative work within us that we
become more and more like Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 (40:57):
I think what's great about that is like usually a
ladder, you have this view oflike, and I'm going up and up
and up.
Like, and if you give rungnumber one, then you get closer
to heaven and then you get rungnumber two.
That is definitely not it.
It's just saying sometimes youhave to take steps when it comes
to growing in yoursanctification.
Uh, sometimes you have to taketime to build the right systems

(41:20):
that work for you.
And so it's not like a matter ofif you climb high enough on the
ladder, you're closer to Jesus.
I mean, I would hope that nobodywithin our tradition of the
faith would would ever teachsomething like that.
I mean, because with Jacob andthe ladder and his vision,
interestingly enough, nothinggoes up the ladder or the
staircase.
The only things that are seenare coming down that ladder or

(41:43):
down that staircase.
So, you know, scripturally youdon't teach that.
But sometimes you do need timeto be discipled and to grow.
And I think that's what, okay,one gift.
I could give one gift, I cangive a gift card.
That's exercising one element ofgenerosity.
But as I pursue generosity and Isee that this is something that
the Lord is encouraging, I kindof want to see where he's gonna
lead me further than that.

(42:04):
And it's gonna take some time toget there.
The spirit can work in themoment and take me from zero to
60.
But more often than not, you'llfind that the spirit is gonna
take time.
And uh, if long-term change isgonna happen, it's usually going
to take long-term work.

SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
I like Zach said, and I think it was from one of
the books that he was uh quotingyou don't meet former givers.
You don't meet the people thatbe like, oh, well, I used to
give, but now I've decided theselfish life is for me.
That's how he phrased it.
And I really liked that.
You do find that niche for it inyour life and then continue to
cultivate it.
It never completely goes away.

(42:41):
I would even say when you guyswere talking about the ladder,
there are times where you maybehave to take a step back on the
ladder.
I know I experienced many yearsago my husband lost his job and
was out of work for four months,and we were reevaluating all of
our expenses, including what wewere giving to at that time.
And I felt such shame that wewere decreasing what we were

(43:02):
giving to the church at thattime.
But then we were able to renewthat once he did have employment
again and we were more secure,and then it was something that
we could continue to work ourway up.
Um, the other thing I reallylike is uh Zach mentioned that
money is a terrible master, butit makes a terrific servant.
Yeah, that either money cancontrol you or you can control
it.

(43:22):
A lot of people have theattitude that money controls us,
that it's powerful.
It is powerful, but it's not themost powerful.

SPEAKER_01 (43:30):
And it is powerful.
Yeah.
But that power can be channeledtowards something that's
powerfully good.

SPEAKER_00 (43:36):
Yeah, Zach at one point said it's powerful, it's
not evil.
Like yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (43:41):
And with the story of the rich young ruler, it's
powerful.
And it moved his heart away fromfollowing Jesus.
Uh but it's also powerful inthat how many neighbors uh could
have been loved as a result ofthat and could at least open the
opportunity to have aconversation of where did this
generosity come from?

(44:01):
Oh, it came from Jesus.
So yeah, it has a power, uh, butit's like anything that's
inanimate.
It in and of itself is neithergood nor bad.
How it's used is usually howit's good or bad.

SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
All right.
So as we wrap up today, what areyour final takeaways from this
week five of the GivingChallenge?

SPEAKER_01 (44:20):
Number one, uh TR over here needs to watch some
Indiana Jones.
I think that's that's thebiggest piece for me.

SPEAKER_03 (44:27):
Sorry, Leah.
I can't watch the kids tonight.

SPEAKER_02 (44:30):
Seth and Dina says I need to watch a movie, a whole
trilogy, actually.
Actually, there's five.

SPEAKER_01 (44:37):
Plus, there's a series called the Young Indiana
Jones Chronicles.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 (44:41):
Four four and five aren't as good.
If you just get to three, it'sokay.

SPEAKER_01 (44:44):
Five is better than four.

SPEAKER_00 (44:46):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:47):
Yeah, but what are we what are we taking beyond
Sunday?

SPEAKER_00 (44:52):
I really like Zach talked about, and I know this is
a little snippet of a preview ofresearch he's doing for a future
message series because we getthe behind-the-scenes looks, but
he talked about the 12 steps,and he said, he said a quote
from um the people who werecreating this whole process, and
they said, We admitted we werepowerless over our deepest
problems, that our lives hadbecome unmanageable.

(45:15):
And I thought that is getting tothe point of surrender.
And we're we we were talkingabout letting go and
surrendering and obeying, youknow, and I just thought that
really summed it up that we wantto be able to choose that, but
sometimes we got to be knockedto our knees first in order to
realize how unmanageable it isand to actually turn that over.

SPEAKER_01 (45:38):
Yeah, that is the first step, right?
Admit you have a problem.
And so I think it's easy toadmit that when it comes to our
stuff, we have a problem.
We have an idol.

SPEAKER_03 (45:48):
Yeah, yeah.
My the final takeaway, the kindof theme verse for the whole
series out of Matthew 6, uh, forwhere your treasure is, there
your heart will be also.
You guys were just talking aboutthe power, the money, money has
power.
And I'm like, man, the the powerthat would have for us to direct
our hearts towards more and moreof being like Jesus and living

(46:12):
and giving like Jesus.
Um, that again, we're not, we'renot waiting for um the feelings
to come, but actually we'regonna develop the habits um to
do that long obedience, gottastart somewhere in the same
direction.
Um, and then see where God takesus.

SPEAKER_00 (46:31):
Thank you guys so much for being here today.
Um, we are gonna wrap up withweek six this coming Sunday of
the Giving Challenge.
And then we'll be moving on to anew series coming that this is
exciting.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, we're plus, we're justgetting close to Christmas.
Christmas is right around thecorner, and I'm excited for I

(46:52):
love Christmas.
I love Christmas celebration.
I love Jesus.
I'm glad you brought that inthere.
I love baby Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 (46:59):
We were starting to go towards elf, but then you
brought us back to the star.

SPEAKER_00 (47:02):
I love smiling.
It's my favorite.
I love that too.
But until this next week, whenwe can talk about week six, the
final week of the givingchallenge as we wrap this up.
Let's keep living our faithbeyond Sunday.