September 17, 2025 • 37 mins
Dina, Tyler, and Kevin continue the Pardon This Interruption series with the intertwined stories of Jairus’ daughter and the woman healed after 12 years of bleeding. They unpack how Jesus uses these “interrupted” moments to teach us about faith, waiting, and God’s perfect timing—reminding us that even delays can become opportunities for His miraculous work.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings
podcast, where we dive a littlebit deeper into our message
series and see what we're takingBeyond Sunday.
My name is Dena Newsom and I amexcited to have a couple guests
here today that are current andformer worship leaders, now
campus leaders.
Like there's some history here,yeah, yeah, go ahead and
(00:26):
introduce yourselves I'm KevinMcClure.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm the campus worship director at the
Northwest Campus.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
And I'm Tyler Rolfson , the campus director at Fremont
.
Formerly that's right, formerlythe worship director.
This is the PC days of King ofKings, pre-campus days.
I was the worship director atwhat is now King of Kings
Millard and back in the day,kevin was like my go-to fill-in,
because there was a seasonwhere your full-time job was
(00:55):
doing worship fill-in at variouschurches.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, among other things.
But yes, yes, I was definitelydoing that.
About 50% of Sundays every yearwas filling in somewhere, and
this was almost every othermonth.
I think Just about there waswhen I was here, so it was
pretty frequent at King of Kings.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
They were some of my favorite Sundays.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, I didn't understand that at all.
Kevin and I came on staff atNorthwest at the same time and
everyone was like, oh yeah,kevin.
And I was like, what do youmean?
What do you mean?
Oh yeah, kevin, he's new.
No, he's not.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, some of my favorite Sundays were when I led
here, largely because you werealso preaching a lot of those,
which is why I got called intolead worship, because you didn't
want to do both on the sameSunday, right.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Which I did that a couple of times.
I'm like this is crazy, and soit was.
Yeah, just such a blessing tobe able to focus on one thing
and when, when someone's reallygood at it, just like, don't you
have to worry about it, kevin'sdoing great job, he's gonna
lead god's people and then wecan partner together so nice so
many nice things over here beingsaid well, I will say, now that
(01:59):
I'm at millard full-time, I domiss kevin led northwest worship
.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Don don't tell Johnny .
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Just just just keep on piling on the compliments,
guys.
This is wonderful.
I feel so good.
I'm going to leave this, leavethis recording just like on
cloud nine.
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah Well, I don't know if you guys know this, but
today is a very special holidayit is national Play-Doh day.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Wow, when do you get these Dina?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Google is my friend.
There's actually a websitecalled National Today that you
can look up and find differentnational or international todays
, and sometimes that's where Igo.
Sometimes I just happen to knowwhen Talk Like a Pirate Day is
or various things like that.
But anyway, in light of itbeing National Play-Doh Day, I'm
(02:49):
wondering if you have afavorite memory from your
childhood of Play-Doh or fromyour kids' childhood of Play-Doh
, or like what was your favoritething to do with Play-Doh?
Anything like what speaks toyou when I say play-doh just
anything in honor of nationalplay-doh I love play-doh.
I was a preschool teacher formany years.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Play-doh is comes in clutch, so um so I am thankful
for the preschool teachers outthere that can utilize play-doh.
Get our kids like theirplay-doh quota met so that then
we never have to have anyplay-doh.
Get our kids their play-dohquota met so that then we never
have to have any play-doh in ourhouse Because it is messy, it
(03:31):
gets everywhere.
Our kids never kept it on thekitchen table.
It always ended up on the couch.
The dogs would eat it, and thenyou get the colors mixed up and
it ends up in this kind of uglybrown anyway.
So thank you for relieving usof needing to do it at our house
so tyler has a fully negativeexperience with play-doh.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
It sounds like, uh, we use play-doh.
My wife uh, homeschools whileI'm here at work doing stuff and
recording podcasts.
She's she's basically being theteacher for every age group up
to this point right now, whichis fun, but she uses Play-Doh a
lot and that's like a cool thingthat we've said like, yeah,
(04:13):
let's use this as much as we can.
So I teach guitar lessons onthe side sometimes, and I had a
student's mom bring in a giftfor me last year for Christmas.
That was this huge thing calledhey Clay, which is basically
Play-Doh, except it comes withan app that walks you through
how to make the thing that youcan make with the Play-Doh
(04:36):
that's given to you because it'sall the different colors.
My kids love hey Clay and soit's the same concept.
So I feel like it still fitsunder Play-Doh.
It's just, you know, know, notthe branded name, uh, but it's
this really cool thing.
So my kids love that we use allthe time.
Bear pulls it out constantly,for you know, whatever he's
trying to make or do and, um,I'm sure right now he's sticking
(04:59):
.
If he's using play-doh at thismoment, he's sticking it into
water to make it run through awhirlpool, because he's really
into whirlpools right now andlike acts of nature that you
think when you're five you'regoing to experience.
Yes, he really thinks he'sgoing to run into a whirlpool
someday and has to figure outhow to get out, and so he's
really obsessed with that and Idon't have to tell him
(05:22):
whirlpools and quicksand areless common of a concern than
you think it's going to be FromTV from the 80s.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I really thought quicksand was going to be
something I encountered on aregular basis.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
To your son Bear's credit, though he would be much
more equipped in that situationthan I would be, it's true He'd
be prepared.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So anyway, the Play-Doh element of it.
I mean we use it all the time,so I have a lot of fond memories
just playing with it myself,but I love watching my kids make
things with it.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I'm really affected by smells and I love the smell
of Play-Doh Like that's just awhole experience.
You crack a can and that's justa delightful experience.
But, perspective is everything,because when I was a child I
loved the fuzzy barber pumperchair or whatever it was, where
you'd put the Play-Doh in andyou'd do the pump and it'd come
out all the little pieces of thehair.
(06:14):
Loved that when I was a kid.
As a parent, I was so excited.
I bought that for my girls whenthey were old enough and I'm so
excited to have this.
As a parent, you have to cleanout the Play-Doh from all those
little holes in the head andthat's annoying as all get out.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
A new appreciation for your mom.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yes, I did not love the barber Play-Doh set anymore.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
So then my question do the different color Play-Dohs
have different smells?
Speaker 1 (06:40):
So some people will tell you yes, they do.
I believe, and I think I readat one point that they are all
the same smell.
However, you can make homemadePlay-Doh we used to make
homemade Play-Doh in we would docooking in preschool when I
taught and you can make it withKool-Aid packs, and so then it
will smell like whateverKool-Aid you use to put into it
(07:02):
and if you use the rightingredients, it's edible and you
don't have to worry if theystart eating it.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
All right.
So if there's a listener outthere who disagrees heartily
with Dina that the colors areindeed unique smells, you can
email her at dinakingkingsorg ortext her at 40.
I'm kidding.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
You can email me, though We'll go to coffee and
discuss Play-Doh.
I'll bring the fuzzy pumperbarbershop.
So, switching from Plato to oursermon series, pardon this
interruption.
We are in week two and PastorSeth Flick is teaching this
message series.
What are you guys taking,beyond Sunday, from this week's
(07:42):
message?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, for me.
I've listened to it a couple oftimes so I've got like all of
it kind of jumbled in my headthe inner story and the woman
who'd been bleeding out for 12years reaching out.
He set it up in such a way thatwas like he always moves
towards us.
In this case she was movingtowards him, she reaches out and
he stopped.
And it was this interruptionthat was like it didn't seem
like he was moving towards her.
But if you zoom out a littlebit and look at the situation,
(08:31):
he was there very clearly in amoment that she needed him to be
right there.
And so it's one of those like Ifeel like it's easy to get
caught in this moment of like.
I feel like God's not movingtowards me, I feel like God is
far from me.
In this moment of like, I feellike God's not moving towards me
.
I feel like God is far from me.
I feel like I am doing all thiswork you know time spent in
prayer or in study or inmeditation or whatever and I'm
not feeling the Lord and yet tobe reminded.
(08:53):
But he is right where you needhim to be in this moment and he
knows that, whether you know itright now or not, it doesn't
really matter.
I'm expounding more than whathe said, obviously, but that was
a moment for me when I waslistening back to the message of
like yeah, this is definitelylike a key thing for me to be
reminded of in the midst ofbusyness, in the midst of
(09:14):
frustration and whatever itmight be being able to remember
like he actually has a movingtowards me.
He's right where he meant to bein this exact moment.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Dina, you always go third.
Why don't you go second?
What are you taking beyondSunday?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
What I'm taking beyond Sunday is really the idea
of get up.
That was what really spoke tome, which was way at the end of
the message for Seth, and justreally I like the whole idea of
being prostrate, you know, andthat position of submission or
being just totally relying onGod or, you know, like just
(09:51):
laying yourself flat before Him.
But I really liked the idea of,okay, your injury timeout is
over, get up, like, get back towork.
I think it's really easy todayto get complacent, not that I
don't love Jesus, not that Idon't want my neighbor or the
person at the grocery store orthe friend of the parent that I
(10:15):
meet through school to go toheaven, but I'm sure they'll
hear about Jesus somewhere elseor you know why is it on me to
be the one to tell them?
And it was just the passionwith which Seth spoke at the end
of the message about no, yourtime of sitting is over, we've
(10:36):
got work to do.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So good Do you remember the Aramaic that Mark
includes?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
No, no, I don't.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Talitha kum.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I don't know what the proper pronunciation is, but
that's what it's written.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Sounds good to me.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
We were in the teaching team review meeting
this morning.
I don't think I'm givinganything away that Seth would be
embarrassed by by, but he didconfide to um zach peter and I
that he had to really thinkabout when he said the word
prostrate, yes, yes, don't sayprostate so well done seth
Speaker 2 (11:18):
those are the behind the scenes, that's.
Those are the things the worlddoesn't know.
What happens in those messageteam.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
That would not have spoken to me as a woman.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
That's a good point.
Yeah, maybe this would be agood time.
We were just talkingpre-recording of kind of how
this series came up.
And you know, kevin, kevin,kudos to you, because we
wouldn't be here if you hadn'tbrought this up.
You know, over a year ago atmessage planning.
You want to maybe just give alittle in the spirit of behind
the scenes of kind of how thiscame about.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Oh sure, yeah, I mean , this whole series was based
off of the literary device.
That, or at least the initialidea, is based off of the
literary device.
I learned about this when I wasin college and had a college
pastor preach on it and then,over the years, have just heard
a couple more times, not on thedevice, but just use it.
And so, as they've preachedthrough the gospel of Mark or
(12:10):
whatever they described thisthing and I heard it a few times
, and the nomenclature of thecommon tongue is the Markan
sandwich, which is the literarydevice, the intellectual's word
is intercalation, right, is thatthe word that's correct?
So intercalation is this use ofone story with a story inserted
(12:36):
in the middle in order to givecontext to the greater story and
also because he's teaching themore specific details to his
closer disciples, he turns tothe side and he does all this
whole thing, and I've alwaysjust loved that this is in only
the Gospel of Mark.
I love the way that he set thisup, as he wrote it and was
recounting, the way that Jesuswas talking to his followers,
(12:59):
and I just was like this wouldbe a really cool thing.
There's, I think, seven or eightepisodes like this in the
Gospel of Mark Be really cool towalk through a few of them and
if we wanted to do it a secondtime, another series down the
road, like there's more to pickfrom, that'd be kind of fun.
Threw it out, everybody seemedinterested in learning more
about it and then it got put onthe schedule and then Seth Flick
(13:21):
came on staff and was chargedwith all right, this is your
series, why don't you run afterit?
And from there?
I was not obviously part of allthat, but I love where Seth's
taking this.
This has been really cool tosee this pardon the interruption
theme, you know all kind ofbaked in with like yeah, this is
the literary tool, but we'rereally getting into the meat of
(13:42):
what the the text is actuallysaying and I love that.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, it's wild to think that that ESPN show that I
watched every day in elementaryschool at 4 pm is still
happening.
And then what was really cool iswe have that ticker on the side
, that kind of mirrors how theydo it on the show.
It's very, very creative, butkind of this more of a meta
(14:07):
thing that I'm taking beyondSunday, but just like the
concept of this series bothweeks, like just a renewed love
for God's word, because ourtendency in Sunday school and in
individual messages is to takejust a kind of you used
intercalation like a pericopewould be the official term, but
(14:29):
like a section like and so you,so you would read about the
woman who is reaches out, herhand reached out and touches the
hem of jesus garment.
He says be well.
Or you hear about gyrus and tonow see, oh, they're actually
working together.
Like I've heard theseindividual stories preached a
number of times, I've studiedthem on my own.
But now, all these ahas of howthey're working together, it's
(14:53):
just this reminder of, like man,god's word is really living and
active and we are alwayslearning and growing that we
really never graduate from justsitting at the feet of the
scripture.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, that's really good.
So, Tyler, I'm going to ask you, can you kind of highlight the
two stories you mentionedbriefly, like the main person
maybe in each, but what the twostories inner story and the
outer story are in this message,and then, for both of you guys,
what are the connections thatyou see between them?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, totally yeah.
So we're in Mark, chapter 5.
And one of the kind of heroicaccomplishments of Seth in these
is that because it's an outerstory inner story, outer story
this is like a giant chunk ofscripture and I think even this
coming week is even a bigger one.
So like props to him for likemaking it all work within a
(15:44):
message that doesn't go 55minutes, seriously, so yeah.
So Jairus the scripture sayshe's a ruler of, one of the
rulers of the synagogue.
He comes to Jesus, he falls atJesus' feet and he says come, my
little girl.
She's almost dying.
And we find out later this girlis 12 years old.
(16:06):
So Jesus starts to go with himtowards where the girl was in
their house, starts to go withhim towards where the girl was
in their house.
And while they're traveling,this woman who the scripture
says has been hemorrhaging for12 years which every time I hear
that I think about just howdisastrous of that would be
(16:34):
certainly physically and I thinkSeth laid out really well also
what that does spiritually,because that means she was
unclean so she cannot go to thetemple.
Also means socially, means shecould not physically touch
anyone.
Like I could get up right nowand give Dina a hug, but this
woman has not received a hug in12 years, and so you can just
imagine the isolation.
And so, out of that desperation, she's also on the ground and
Seth did a great job ofoutlining that and she reaches
(16:55):
out for the hem of Jesus'sgarment.
Jesus stops and he's likepower's gone out of me, which I
always thought was aninteresting kind of place to be
and the woman is healed.
And then at that point so thisis what Seth had brought up
really well is that while Jesuswas on his way to heal Jairus'
(17:19):
daughter, this woman'sdesperation interrupts, and so
Jesus takes time to stop andminister to this woman, which
then means that Jairus' daughteris waiting.
And we get to the point wherewe find out that we get news
that the daughter has died, andone of the this is really stuck
(17:41):
with me is then someone says toJairus your daughter is dead,
why trouble the teacher anylonger?
Jesus, wants none of that and heends up going to the house.
They all said, well, oh no.
Jesus says she's not dead,she's only sleeping.
Scripture actually says theylaugh at him, they laugh at him,
(18:02):
mock him, and then he justtakes a small few of the family
members up to a room.
He says these famous wordsTalitha Koum, little girl, get
up.
We find out that she is indeed12 years old and she does that.
And so Jesus, within this wholeMarkins story, this sandwich,
this intercalation, is healingthis woman that's been bleeding
(18:25):
for 12 years.
And then he raises this girlback to life, also 12 years old.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, what connection stuck out to you, kevin.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Well, there's the.
The ones that are, I think, theeasiest to grab are clearly
like the 12 years of both thisgirl's born and this woman
starts bleeding.
Correlation does not equalcausation, so I don't think we
can jump to any conclusionsthere, but I do think it still
has a lot to say about.
You know, the numerology inscripture makes a big difference
.
I think it tells us that thisis a say about.
You know, the numerology inscripture makes a big difference
(18:54):
.
I think it tells us that thisis a big deal.
You know, 12 is a number ofcompletion.
Whether or not it was exact tothe day or whatever, I don't
think that stuff matters to thatpoint.
I think it really is justtrying to tell you something
about the situation.
That this is a big deal, then,both lying prostrate shows an
honor to Jesus and a trust and adeep faith.
(19:15):
Um, I don't think I can counton one hand the number of times
I've laid down in front ofsomebody begging them for help.
Uh and so this would besomething that would be a huge
deal for anybody, but especiallyfor someone of high status
likeairus the woman.
(19:35):
I don't know what her statuswould have been before or what,
but she's still very muchhumbling herself in this moment
to do the exact same thing, alsoputting herself into danger of
being in a crowd of people.
She could get stoned for that,she could be mocked and
ridiculed, but instead she saysbut I know this is the moment
(19:59):
and it really takes me tocorrect me if I'm wrong.
Does Jesus actually say thewords in this story in the
Markin account?
Your faith has made you well.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
No, not here.
He just says little girl, I sayto you arise.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Okay, so he doesn't say that at all to the older
widow either.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Oh, sorry, sorry To the woman before he gets back to
the outer story.
No, he said yeah, this is verse34.
He said to her that this is thewoman that had been bleeding
for 12 years.
Daughter, your faith has madeyou well.
Go in peace and be healed ofyour disease.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, I mean, just like those words give me
goosebumps thinking about it oflike the deep faith that she had
to make that movement, to takethat action.
It didn't even require Jesus toturn and look at her, it didn't
require him, she just simplymade this action and move
towards him and it, yeah, it dideverything it needed to do and
(20:51):
it wasn't.
That.
It's a formula of you havefaith and so, therefore, god
does this thing, but it is thisaction and we can't fully
explain it, we can't fullyunderstand it or comprehend it.
It's just this like reality ofher faith was so deep and true
that it created a moment forJesus to give her the healing.
(21:12):
Whether or not he intended to, Iwould still say he intended for
it to happen, but that's notexplicitly written in this
account.
So I feel like that's nottotally fair to go too far down
that rabbit trail.
But those are the things thatjump out to me as the clear
connecting points is thefaithfulness, the humility to
(21:35):
lay prostrate in front of Jesusor behind him and reaching out
towards him.
The big deal of the 12 years,those are, I think, super
important, just to catch on.
And then I think the lastconnecting point is the fact
that Jesus is in proximity withthese people, and that's just.
I said this earlier.
I think that that's fullyintentional.
(21:56):
Because of who he is, he willalways be right in the moment
that he's supposed to be, thathe intended for.
That's best for you, whetheryou see it or not, and so I
think the woman having to makethose moves herself looks almost
like he doesn't care about her,but he was in the moment that
he needed to be exactly right sothat her faith could be shown
(22:17):
and demonstrated.
Otherwise, who knows how thatfaith is demonstrated?
But it was demonstratedparticularly in this way, on
purpose, and I think that's abig deal.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, I really like just the courage that both
Jairus and the woman show.
I mean, I think think, okay, ifmy child were really sick and I
was living at this time, am Ireally gonna go ask this person
that I've just heard about, youknow?
to to heal them.
But he does and and it'simportant to him.
But let alone the woman who,like you said, it could be
(22:48):
risking, you know, her own life,literally, literally, or just
more, being shunned or whateveris okay.
No, this is my moment.
I know that this is the timeand the courage that they both
show in their stories.
Okay, so Jairus is waiting forJesus to come and hopefully heal
(23:10):
his daughter and he getssidetracked by this woman and
I'm sure Jairus in the momentwas really annoyed, you know.
And so Seth really talked abouthow someone else's answered
prayer could interrupt our owndesire for a miracle.
So what human emotions do yousee coming into play when
someone else's answered prayerinterrupts our desire for a
(23:34):
miracle?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
It's complicated, isn't it?
I made a Bluey reference anepisode or two ago that I was on
, so another Bluey reference foryou parents of young kids.
There's an episode where wherethe moms are comparing how their
children are developing, likecrawling first, walking first,
(23:58):
but it's in dog terms.
But the point is and they saythis over and over again run
your own race.
And so there's something to besaid there of just having the
humility and wherewithal to notcompare.
But I also just think it's at ahuman level, like how can we
not, when we're talking aboutthe God of the universe that we
(24:19):
say loves us unconditionally,and when he answers the prayer
of someone else while ours goesunanswered?
I think about a situation myprior church.
I was out in Connecticut, justthis amazing group of people and
this was about a year or two in.
A wife woke up.
(24:42):
She and her husband were intheir mid fifties, woke up and
her husband had died in themiddle of the night, completely
unexpectedly.
And in between that and thecelebration of life service
within the church community, wehad a very similar situation
where there was like a heartattack, that sort of thing, and
(25:04):
we called people to prayer and,for whatever reason the Lord
healed that man.
And then we have the funeralfor the one where he died, and I
think that's one reason why inthe scriptures they say,
especially in the New Testamentrejoice with those who rejoice,
weep with those who weep.
Sometimes that's the only thingwe can do is stick to that.
(25:28):
But I also just love the waythat Seth put it in kind of
ultimate terms and that Jesus isalways moving toward our wounds
, not away from them.
We don't know on this side ofheaven if our prayers for a
miracle or prayers for healingwill be answered.
(25:48):
God does it sometimes, but wecan't guarantee it.
But we do know that this lifeis not the end and, as he so
beautifully referenced inRevelation 21, there is coming a
day.
Jesus will return, he's goingto make all things new and at
that point there will be no morehemorrhaging, there will be no
(26:09):
more 12-year-olds dying,there'll be no more 50-year-olds
dying, there'll be no moresickness, death, and he's gonna
wipe away every tear and likethat's not just like a out there
hope, like that has been thehope of Christians for 2000
years, and I think a lot oftimes you don't talk about that
(26:30):
enough, because it's importantof what does it look like for us
to follow Jesus now?
That's important, but you can'ttalk about prayers going
unanswered without recognizingthat there is coming a day where
all the bad things what's thegreat Jesus storybook, bible,
all the sad things will becomeuntrue.
That day's coming.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah, and I think that is fully true and I'm
definitely not disagreeing atall.
That is fully true.
That day's coming, yeah, yeah,and I think that is fully true
and I'm definitely notdisagreeing at all.
Um, that is fully true.
And then you have this scenario, when you're in in it, that you
feel, um, maybe jealousy orquestion, questioning your, your
faith and questioning God'sgoodness, and I think those are
(27:13):
all welcome.
I remember, um, oh, I don'tremember exactly who it was that
said it, but I've heard thisquote once that, um, god's not
afraid of of our punches.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
And so it's okay to take them and and be frustrated
or upset or hurt and ask thosequestions to him.
Um, it's when we stop askingthose questions to him that
things start to get a little bitwild and, um, you know, I think
that's.
That's just one of the hardrealities is you see, something
that you've been asking for foryourself happened for somebody
(27:46):
else, and you as a person, as ahuman who's imperfect, who
doesn't have the whole vision infront of you, who doesn't know
the grand master plan, whodoesn't always feel like things
are working out for your good,you can cling to the truths that
I think it's Romans 8, that Godis working all things together
(28:10):
for the good of those who lovehim and for his own glory.
That's still true, that'sabsolutely true.
But in the middle of it, youcan't see how it's good, and so
you're asking these questionswhat am I supposed to feel, or
why do I still feel this way?
That's contrary to what I'mtrying to live out in my faith,
(28:32):
and I think that's just thereality.
Is it's okay, it's okay to feelthose things and it's okay to
ask those questions, it's okayto go to the Lord with that, and
I think that's ultimately a bigpush of why it's great to be in
community and to find yourselfwith people who will encourage
you with absolute truth of theword of God but also mourn with
(28:53):
you and also experience that,and I think that's just a
complicated feeling to have towork out.
And so it's so much easier Ishouldn't say easier it's so
much, it's less of a burden tobear when you are not bearing it
on your own.
And so, yeah, I just I findthat when Seth said that, I was
(29:16):
really grateful that he sharedthat story of his own, um, that
he about, about his, his, his,his I think it was his youngest
son or second youngest son Um,when they were in the hospital,
that was really meaningful to me.
To hear somebody share apersonal story like that, that
was like that was challengingand it worked out in the end.
I have a lot of friends thatthey've had things not work out
(29:39):
and yet I've also seen them finda lot of healing and find a lot
of hope.
And I don't have permission toname any names, obviously, at
this moment because I'm justthinking of this right now.
Text them, kevin, but I've, youknow they, they had a
miscarriage or or a baby diethat they still celebrate that
(30:02):
birthday and their, their kidsthat came after like still know
they have an older sibling andthey celebrate that and they
look to that day.
And so they found, even in thestruggle of that moment that I
watched them in when it happened, they found now, 10 years down
the road, this hope and thislooking forward to the day that
they will be reunited with theones that they love.
(30:23):
And so it's okay to feel theconflicting emotions and know
that things are true but nottotally feel right about it all
the time.
And I think that's one of thebeautiful things about community
that we can always point eachother back to is hey, people
feel it, people understand thatand they're with you and we can
live in that tension, I think.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
And also just recognize how biblical it is.
Like in the Psalms there areall these Psalms of lament,
meaning that God saw fit toplace within the Holy Scriptures
words for us to complain beforehim.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
And so I just flipped to one here, psalm 13.
You guys ready for this?
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah go.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
How long, o Lord, will you forget me forever?
How long will you hide yourface from me?
How long must I take counsel inmy soul and have sorrow in my
heart all the day?
And just if you're on the otherside of this and you're in that
spot where you are asking andyou're praying and you're
(31:28):
waiting, just that you need toknow that the Lord gives you
permission to come to him in oneof these laments.
It's like God, how long Bringyour whole self before him.
Like you said, kevin, like he'snot scared of anything.
He can handle it.
Jesus has walked the roadbefore us.
He identifies with every sorrowand pain point that we have and
(31:53):
it's actually a beautifulexercise of faith to go to God
with it.
And, like Kevin said, in thecontext of community.
That's why we have church,that's why we have each other.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
So I very recently had the experience of being the
opposite.
I was the answered prayer whensomeone else was struggling and
I had like when Seth waspreaching about this and just
looking at this whole story, Ihadn't made the correlation of
just how difficult thatsituation was too.
And it was a case of where I hadcalled a close friend of mine
(32:27):
because I was having a biopsydone of whether or not you know,
waiting to see if I had a typeof cancer.
And in that phone conversationmy friend revealed to me that
she had just received a cancerdiagnosis that I was unaware of
and we talked through that andtalked about her then at that
moment and I remember howanxious she was for my results.
(32:48):
And I remember how anxious shewas for my results and I
remember when I got my results,which were clear that I was fine
, I didn't want to tell herbecause I felt bad for the hurt
that she was in and selfishlyglad for myself and I didn't
know how to express that to her.
(33:09):
But when I did, she respondedwith such excitement and just
genuine joy for me that I wasn'tgoing to face what she was
feeling in that moment, just asa friend.
And so when you talk about thecommunity, like I think that's
on both sides of whether it isthe answered prayer or whether
(33:31):
it is the struggle, thatcommunity of just coming
together, that how we can takethose things to God is just an
amazing part of the humanexperience with a graceful
father like that.
Yeah, okay, so we're kind ofwrapping it up now.
What are you guys's finaltakeaways from this message?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
um, I referenced it earlier.
When they go to gyrus after thewound's been healed and they
say why your daughter is dead,why troubled the teacher any
longer?
I've heard it said, and I'veprobably even believed it at
times myself, just that eithermy need is either too big for
(34:22):
God or too small for God.
And so just to encourage youlistener, anything that you
bring to God is not troublesome,is not bothersome, because he
loves you so, so, so much, andhe's always moving toward our
(34:44):
wounds and not away.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, I think the end of his message like you were
talking about, dina, the get upthere's an activation and a
motivation for the believer totake their hurts, take their
pain, take their suffering andthen, whether or not they find
(35:08):
healing like true physicalhealing, they can find hope and
peace.
And when you have found that,you then can turn around and
offer that to others.
And I think you know that's oneof the beautiful things about
what you just shared, dina isyou know, you know that feeling
of the uncertainty and of thepain and we have other staff
members here at King of Kingsthat have gone through a year of
(35:32):
chemo and gone through a lossof of a of a loved one suddenly
and to be able to lean on eachother in that way.
So, whether you're on eitherside of that of someone who
needs that support, who needsthat understanding, or who has
it and is willing to give it tosomebody else, we all can be
motivated towards that action ofeither seeking it out, because
(35:55):
we are so deep in our sufferingand struggling, or seeking out
somebody to give that piece awaytoo.
And I just I think that's amajor activation for me out of
this week's message.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, that's really good.
So Seth said something at thevery end and he said His
resurrection is so much morepowerful than whatever has
caused our desperation.
And that stuck with me.
I was like, wow, I mean, weknow that it's much more
powerful than anything, but tothink about it in that context,
that in the moment, whatever itis that's making us desperate,
(36:35):
that God is still there, right?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, well, he relates to us in our sufferings
too, which is extremely biblical, but it's also kind of
following up what you saidearlier.
He doesn't just relate to us inthe victory.
He also was the one who he saidmy God, my God, why have you
forsaken me?
He relates to us on both sidesof it, and what a kind God to
(37:00):
meet us in any place that we'recurrently standing, and he meets
us there with absolute empathyand an understanding of where we
are, us there, with absoluteempathy and an understanding of
where we are.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah, Thank you guys so much for being here today and
sharing about this sometimeshard topic Like I'm excited to
hear more from this series.
So until next week, let's keepliving our faith.
Be on Sunday, Thank you.
Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings
podcast, where we dive a littlebit deeper into our message
series and see what we're takingBeyond Sunday.
My name is Dena Newsom and I amexcited to have a couple guests
here today that are current andformer worship leaders, now
campus leaders.
Like there's some history here,yeah, yeah, go ahead and
(00:26):
introduce yourselves I'm KevinMcClure.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm the campus worship director at the
Northwest Campus.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
And I'm Tyler Rolfson , the campus director at Fremont
.
Formerly that's right, formerlythe worship director.
This is the PC days of King ofKings, pre-campus days.
I was the worship director atwhat is now King of Kings
Millard and back in the day,kevin was like my go-to fill-in,
because there was a seasonwhere your full-time job was
(00:55):
doing worship fill-in at variouschurches.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, among other things.
But yes, yes, I was definitelydoing that.
About 50% of Sundays every yearwas filling in somewhere, and
this was almost every othermonth.
I think Just about there waswhen I was here, so it was
pretty frequent at King of Kings.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
They were some of my favorite Sundays.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, I didn't understand that at all.
Kevin and I came on staff atNorthwest at the same time and
everyone was like, oh yeah,kevin.
And I was like, what do youmean?
What do you mean?
Oh yeah, kevin, he's new.
No, he's not.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, some of my favorite Sundays were when I led
here, largely because you werealso preaching a lot of those,
which is why I got called intolead worship, because you didn't
want to do both on the sameSunday, right.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Which I did that a couple of times.
I'm like this is crazy, and soit was.
Yeah, just such a blessing tobe able to focus on one thing
and when, when someone's reallygood at it, just like, don't you
have to worry about it, kevin'sdoing great job, he's gonna
lead god's people and then wecan partner together so nice so
many nice things over here beingsaid well, I will say, now that
(01:59):
I'm at millard full-time, I domiss kevin led northwest worship
.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Don don't tell Johnny .
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Just just just keep on piling on the compliments,
guys.
This is wonderful.
I feel so good.
I'm going to leave this, leavethis recording just like on
cloud nine.
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah Well, I don't know if you guys know this, but
today is a very special holidayit is national Play-Doh day.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Wow, when do you get these Dina?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Google is my friend.
There's actually a websitecalled National Today that you
can look up and find differentnational or international todays
, and sometimes that's where Igo.
Sometimes I just happen to knowwhen Talk Like a Pirate Day is
or various things like that.
But anyway, in light of itbeing National Play-Doh Day, I'm
(02:49):
wondering if you have afavorite memory from your
childhood of Play-Doh or fromyour kids' childhood of Play-Doh
, or like what was your favoritething to do with Play-Doh?
Anything like what speaks toyou when I say play-doh just
anything in honor of nationalplay-doh I love play-doh.
I was a preschool teacher formany years.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Play-doh is comes in clutch, so um so I am thankful
for the preschool teachers outthere that can utilize play-doh.
Get our kids like theirplay-doh quota met so that then
we never have to have anyplay-doh.
Get our kids their play-dohquota met so that then we never
have to have any play-doh in ourhouse Because it is messy, it
(03:31):
gets everywhere.
Our kids never kept it on thekitchen table.
It always ended up on the couch.
The dogs would eat it, and thenyou get the colors mixed up and
it ends up in this kind of uglybrown anyway.
So thank you for relieving usof needing to do it at our house
so tyler has a fully negativeexperience with play-doh.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
It sounds like, uh, we use play-doh.
My wife uh, homeschools whileI'm here at work doing stuff and
recording podcasts.
She's she's basically being theteacher for every age group up
to this point right now, whichis fun, but she uses Play-Doh a
lot and that's like a cool thingthat we've said like, yeah,
(04:13):
let's use this as much as we can.
So I teach guitar lessons onthe side sometimes, and I had a
student's mom bring in a giftfor me last year for Christmas.
That was this huge thing calledhey Clay, which is basically
Play-Doh, except it comes withan app that walks you through
how to make the thing that youcan make with the Play-Doh
(04:36):
that's given to you because it'sall the different colors.
My kids love hey Clay and soit's the same concept.
So I feel like it still fitsunder Play-Doh.
It's just, you know, know, notthe branded name, uh, but it's
this really cool thing.
So my kids love that we use allthe time.
Bear pulls it out constantly,for you know, whatever he's
trying to make or do and, um,I'm sure right now he's sticking
(04:59):
.
If he's using play-doh at thismoment, he's sticking it into
water to make it run through awhirlpool, because he's really
into whirlpools right now andlike acts of nature that you
think when you're five you'regoing to experience.
Yes, he really thinks he'sgoing to run into a whirlpool
someday and has to figure outhow to get out, and so he's
really obsessed with that and Idon't have to tell him
(05:22):
whirlpools and quicksand areless common of a concern than
you think it's going to be FromTV from the 80s.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I really thought quicksand was going to be
something I encountered on aregular basis.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
To your son Bear's credit, though he would be much
more equipped in that situationthan I would be, it's true He'd
be prepared.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So anyway, the Play-Doh element of it.
I mean we use it all the time,so I have a lot of fond memories
just playing with it myself,but I love watching my kids make
things with it.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I'm really affected by smells and I love the smell
of Play-Doh Like that's just awhole experience.
You crack a can and that's justa delightful experience.
But, perspective is everything,because when I was a child I
loved the fuzzy barber pumperchair or whatever it was, where
you'd put the Play-Doh in andyou'd do the pump and it'd come
out all the little pieces of thehair.
(06:14):
Loved that when I was a kid.
As a parent, I was so excited.
I bought that for my girls whenthey were old enough and I'm so
excited to have this.
As a parent, you have to cleanout the Play-Doh from all those
little holes in the head andthat's annoying as all get out.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
A new appreciation for your mom.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yes, I did not love the barber Play-Doh set anymore.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
So then my question do the different color Play-Dohs
have different smells?
Speaker 1 (06:40):
So some people will tell you yes, they do.
I believe, and I think I readat one point that they are all
the same smell.
However, you can make homemadePlay-Doh we used to make
homemade Play-Doh in we would docooking in preschool when I
taught and you can make it withKool-Aid packs, and so then it
will smell like whateverKool-Aid you use to put into it
(07:02):
and if you use the rightingredients, it's edible and you
don't have to worry if theystart eating it.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
All right.
So if there's a listener outthere who disagrees heartily
with Dina that the colors areindeed unique smells, you can
email her at dinakingkingsorg ortext her at 40.
I'm kidding.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
You can email me, though We'll go to coffee and
discuss Play-Doh.
I'll bring the fuzzy pumperbarbershop.
So, switching from Plato to oursermon series, pardon this
interruption.
We are in week two and PastorSeth Flick is teaching this
message series.
What are you guys taking,beyond Sunday, from this week's
(07:42):
message?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, for me.
I've listened to it a couple oftimes so I've got like all of
it kind of jumbled in my headthe inner story and the woman
who'd been bleeding out for 12years reaching out.
He set it up in such a way thatwas like he always moves
towards us.
In this case she was movingtowards him, she reaches out and
he stopped.
And it was this interruptionthat was like it didn't seem
like he was moving towards her.
But if you zoom out a littlebit and look at the situation,
(08:31):
he was there very clearly in amoment that she needed him to be
right there.
And so it's one of those like Ifeel like it's easy to get
caught in this moment of like.
I feel like God's not movingtowards me, I feel like God is
far from me.
In this moment of like, I feellike God's not moving towards me
.
I feel like God is far from me.
I feel like I am doing all thiswork you know time spent in
prayer or in study or inmeditation or whatever and I'm
not feeling the Lord and yet tobe reminded.
(08:53):
But he is right where you needhim to be in this moment and he
knows that, whether you know itright now or not, it doesn't
really matter.
I'm expounding more than whathe said, obviously, but that was
a moment for me when I waslistening back to the message of
like yeah, this is definitelylike a key thing for me to be
reminded of in the midst ofbusyness, in the midst of
(09:14):
frustration and whatever itmight be being able to remember
like he actually has a movingtowards me.
He's right where he meant to bein this exact moment.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Dina, you always go third.
Why don't you go second?
What are you taking beyondSunday?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
What I'm taking beyond Sunday is really the idea
of get up.
That was what really spoke tome, which was way at the end of
the message for Seth, and justreally I like the whole idea of
being prostrate, you know, andthat position of submission or
being just totally relying onGod or, you know, like just
(09:51):
laying yourself flat before Him.
But I really liked the idea of,okay, your injury timeout is
over, get up, like, get back towork.
I think it's really easy todayto get complacent, not that I
don't love Jesus, not that Idon't want my neighbor or the
person at the grocery store orthe friend of the parent that I
(10:15):
meet through school to go toheaven, but I'm sure they'll
hear about Jesus somewhere elseor you know why is it on me to
be the one to tell them?
And it was just the passionwith which Seth spoke at the end
of the message about no, yourtime of sitting is over, we've
(10:36):
got work to do.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So good Do you remember the Aramaic that Mark
includes?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
No, no, I don't.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Talitha kum.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I don't know what the proper pronunciation is, but
that's what it's written.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Sounds good to me.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
We were in the teaching team review meeting
this morning.
I don't think I'm givinganything away that Seth would be
embarrassed by by, but he didconfide to um zach peter and I
that he had to really thinkabout when he said the word
prostrate, yes, yes, don't sayprostate so well done seth
Speaker 2 (11:18):
those are the behind the scenes, that's.
Those are the things the worlddoesn't know.
What happens in those messageteam.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
That would not have spoken to me as a woman.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
That's a good point.
Yeah, maybe this would be agood time.
We were just talkingpre-recording of kind of how
this series came up.
And you know, kevin, kevin,kudos to you, because we
wouldn't be here if you hadn'tbrought this up.
You know, over a year ago atmessage planning.
You want to maybe just give alittle in the spirit of behind
the scenes of kind of how thiscame about.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Oh sure, yeah, I mean , this whole series was based
off of the literary device.
That, or at least the initialidea, is based off of the
literary device.
I learned about this when I wasin college and had a college
pastor preach on it and then,over the years, have just heard
a couple more times, not on thedevice, but just use it.
And so, as they've preachedthrough the gospel of Mark or
(12:10):
whatever they described thisthing and I heard it a few times
, and the nomenclature of thecommon tongue is the Markan
sandwich, which is the literarydevice, the intellectual's word
is intercalation, right, is thatthe word that's correct?
So intercalation is this use ofone story with a story inserted
(12:36):
in the middle in order to givecontext to the greater story and
also because he's teaching themore specific details to his
closer disciples, he turns tothe side and he does all this
whole thing, and I've alwaysjust loved that this is in only
the Gospel of Mark.
I love the way that he set thisup, as he wrote it and was
recounting, the way that Jesuswas talking to his followers,
(12:59):
and I just was like this wouldbe a really cool thing.
There's, I think, seven or eightepisodes like this in the
Gospel of Mark Be really cool towalk through a few of them and
if we wanted to do it a secondtime, another series down the
road, like there's more to pickfrom, that'd be kind of fun.
Threw it out, everybody seemedinterested in learning more
about it and then it got put onthe schedule and then Seth Flick
(13:21):
came on staff and was chargedwith all right, this is your
series, why don't you run afterit?
And from there?
I was not obviously part of allthat, but I love where Seth's
taking this.
This has been really cool tosee this pardon the interruption
theme, you know all kind ofbaked in with like yeah, this is
the literary tool, but we'rereally getting into the meat of
(13:42):
what the the text is actuallysaying and I love that.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, it's wild to think that that ESPN show that I
watched every day in elementaryschool at 4 pm is still
happening.
And then what was really cool iswe have that ticker on the side
, that kind of mirrors how theydo it on the show.
It's very, very creative, butkind of this more of a meta
(14:07):
thing that I'm taking beyondSunday, but just like the
concept of this series bothweeks, like just a renewed love
for God's word, because ourtendency in Sunday school and in
individual messages is to takejust a kind of you used
intercalation like a pericopewould be the official term, but
(14:29):
like a section like and so you,so you would read about the
woman who is reaches out, herhand reached out and touches the
hem of jesus garment.
He says be well.
Or you hear about gyrus and tonow see, oh, they're actually
working together.
Like I've heard theseindividual stories preached a
number of times, I've studiedthem on my own.
But now, all these ahas of howthey're working together, it's
(14:53):
just this reminder of, like man,god's word is really living and
active and we are alwayslearning and growing that we
really never graduate from justsitting at the feet of the
scripture.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, that's really good.
So, Tyler, I'm going to ask you, can you kind of highlight the
two stories you mentionedbriefly, like the main person
maybe in each, but what the twostories inner story and the
outer story are in this message,and then, for both of you guys,
what are the connections thatyou see between them?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, totally yeah.
So we're in Mark, chapter 5.
And one of the kind of heroicaccomplishments of Seth in these
is that because it's an outerstory inner story, outer story
this is like a giant chunk ofscripture and I think even this
coming week is even a bigger one.
So like props to him for likemaking it all work within a
(15:44):
message that doesn't go 55minutes, seriously, so yeah.
So Jairus the scripture sayshe's a ruler of, one of the
rulers of the synagogue.
He comes to Jesus, he falls atJesus' feet and he says come, my
little girl.
She's almost dying.
And we find out later this girlis 12 years old.
(16:06):
So Jesus starts to go with himtowards where the girl was in
their house, starts to go withhim towards where the girl was
in their house.
And while they're traveling,this woman who the scripture
says has been hemorrhaging for12 years which every time I hear
that I think about just howdisastrous of that would be
(16:34):
certainly physically and I thinkSeth laid out really well also
what that does spiritually,because that means she was
unclean so she cannot go to thetemple.
Also means socially, means shecould not physically touch
anyone.
Like I could get up right nowand give Dina a hug, but this
woman has not received a hug in12 years, and so you can just
imagine the isolation.
And so, out of that desperation, she's also on the ground and
Seth did a great job ofoutlining that and she reaches
(16:55):
out for the hem of Jesus'sgarment.
Jesus stops and he's likepower's gone out of me, which I
always thought was aninteresting kind of place to be
and the woman is healed.
And then at that point so thisis what Seth had brought up
really well is that while Jesuswas on his way to heal Jairus'
(17:19):
daughter, this woman'sdesperation interrupts, and so
Jesus takes time to stop andminister to this woman, which
then means that Jairus' daughteris waiting.
And we get to the point wherewe find out that we get news
that the daughter has died, andone of the this is really stuck
(17:41):
with me is then someone says toJairus your daughter is dead,
why trouble the teacher anylonger?
Jesus, wants none of that and heends up going to the house.
They all said, well, oh no.
Jesus says she's not dead,she's only sleeping.
Scripture actually says theylaugh at him, they laugh at him,
(18:02):
mock him, and then he justtakes a small few of the family
members up to a room.
He says these famous wordsTalitha Koum, little girl, get
up.
We find out that she is indeed12 years old and she does that.
And so Jesus, within this wholeMarkins story, this sandwich,
this intercalation, is healingthis woman that's been bleeding
(18:25):
for 12 years.
And then he raises this girlback to life, also 12 years old.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, what connection stuck out to you, kevin.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Well, there's the.
The ones that are, I think, theeasiest to grab are clearly
like the 12 years of both thisgirl's born and this woman
starts bleeding.
Correlation does not equalcausation, so I don't think we
can jump to any conclusionsthere, but I do think it still
has a lot to say about.
You know, the numerology inscripture makes a big difference
.
I think it tells us that thisis a say about.
You know, the numerology inscripture makes a big difference
(18:54):
.
I think it tells us that thisis a big deal.
You know, 12 is a number ofcompletion.
Whether or not it was exact tothe day or whatever, I don't
think that stuff matters to thatpoint.
I think it really is justtrying to tell you something
about the situation.
That this is a big deal, then,both lying prostrate shows an
honor to Jesus and a trust and adeep faith.
(19:15):
Um, I don't think I can counton one hand the number of times
I've laid down in front ofsomebody begging them for help.
Uh and so this would besomething that would be a huge
deal for anybody, but especiallyfor someone of high status
likeairus the woman.
(19:35):
I don't know what her statuswould have been before or what,
but she's still very muchhumbling herself in this moment
to do the exact same thing, alsoputting herself into danger of
being in a crowd of people.
She could get stoned for that,she could be mocked and
ridiculed, but instead she saysbut I know this is the moment
(19:59):
and it really takes me tocorrect me if I'm wrong.
Does Jesus actually say thewords in this story in the
Markin account?
Your faith has made you well.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
No, not here.
He just says little girl, I sayto you arise.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Okay, so he doesn't say that at all to the older
widow either.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Oh, sorry, sorry To the woman before he gets back to
the outer story.
No, he said yeah, this is verse34.
He said to her that this is thewoman that had been bleeding
for 12 years.
Daughter, your faith has madeyou well.
Go in peace and be healed ofyour disease.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, I mean, just like those words give me
goosebumps thinking about it oflike the deep faith that she had
to make that movement, to takethat action.
It didn't even require Jesus toturn and look at her, it didn't
require him, she just simplymade this action and move
towards him and it, yeah, it dideverything it needed to do and
(20:51):
it wasn't.
That.
It's a formula of you havefaith and so, therefore, god
does this thing, but it is thisaction and we can't fully
explain it, we can't fullyunderstand it or comprehend it.
It's just this like reality ofher faith was so deep and true
that it created a moment forJesus to give her the healing.
(21:12):
Whether or not he intended to, Iwould still say he intended for
it to happen, but that's notexplicitly written in this
account.
So I feel like that's nottotally fair to go too far down
that rabbit trail.
But those are the things thatjump out to me as the clear
connecting points is thefaithfulness, the humility to
(21:35):
lay prostrate in front of Jesusor behind him and reaching out
towards him.
The big deal of the 12 years,those are, I think, super
important, just to catch on.
And then I think the lastconnecting point is the fact
that Jesus is in proximity withthese people, and that's just.
I said this earlier.
I think that that's fullyintentional.
(21:56):
Because of who he is, he willalways be right in the moment
that he's supposed to be, thathe intended for.
That's best for you, whetheryou see it or not, and so I
think the woman having to makethose moves herself looks almost
like he doesn't care about her,but he was in the moment that
he needed to be exactly right sothat her faith could be shown
(22:17):
and demonstrated.
Otherwise, who knows how thatfaith is demonstrated?
But it was demonstratedparticularly in this way, on
purpose, and I think that's abig deal.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, I really like just the courage that both
Jairus and the woman show.
I mean, I think think, okay, ifmy child were really sick and I
was living at this time, am Ireally gonna go ask this person
that I've just heard about, youknow?
to to heal them.
But he does and and it'simportant to him.
But let alone the woman who,like you said, it could be
(22:48):
risking, you know, her own life,literally, literally, or just
more, being shunned or whateveris okay.
No, this is my moment.
I know that this is the timeand the courage that they both
show in their stories.
Okay, so Jairus is waiting forJesus to come and hopefully heal
(23:10):
his daughter and he getssidetracked by this woman and
I'm sure Jairus in the momentwas really annoyed, you know.
And so Seth really talked abouthow someone else's answered
prayer could interrupt our owndesire for a miracle.
So what human emotions do yousee coming into play when
someone else's answered prayerinterrupts our desire for a
(23:34):
miracle?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
It's complicated, isn't it?
I made a Bluey reference anepisode or two ago that I was on
, so another Bluey reference foryou parents of young kids.
There's an episode where wherethe moms are comparing how their
children are developing, likecrawling first, walking first,
(23:58):
but it's in dog terms.
But the point is and they saythis over and over again run
your own race.
And so there's something to besaid there of just having the
humility and wherewithal to notcompare.
But I also just think it's at ahuman level, like how can we
not, when we're talking aboutthe God of the universe that we
(24:19):
say loves us unconditionally,and when he answers the prayer
of someone else while ours goesunanswered?
I think about a situation myprior church.
I was out in Connecticut, justthis amazing group of people and
this was about a year or two in.
A wife woke up.
(24:42):
She and her husband were intheir mid fifties, woke up and
her husband had died in themiddle of the night, completely
unexpectedly.
And in between that and thecelebration of life service
within the church community, wehad a very similar situation
where there was like a heartattack, that sort of thing, and
(25:04):
we called people to prayer and,for whatever reason the Lord
healed that man.
And then we have the funeralfor the one where he died, and I
think that's one reason why inthe scriptures they say,
especially in the New Testamentrejoice with those who rejoice,
weep with those who weep.
Sometimes that's the only thingwe can do is stick to that.
(25:28):
But I also just love the waythat Seth put it in kind of
ultimate terms and that Jesus isalways moving toward our wounds
, not away from them.
We don't know on this side ofheaven if our prayers for a
miracle or prayers for healingwill be answered.
(25:48):
God does it sometimes, but wecan't guarantee it.
But we do know that this lifeis not the end and, as he so
beautifully referenced inRevelation 21, there is coming a
day.
Jesus will return, he's goingto make all things new and at
that point there will be no morehemorrhaging, there will be no
(26:09):
more 12-year-olds dying,there'll be no more 50-year-olds
dying, there'll be no moresickness, death, and he's gonna
wipe away every tear and likethat's not just like a out there
hope, like that has been thehope of Christians for 2000
years, and I think a lot oftimes you don't talk about that
(26:30):
enough, because it's importantof what does it look like for us
to follow Jesus now?
That's important, but you can'ttalk about prayers going
unanswered without recognizingthat there is coming a day where
all the bad things what's thegreat Jesus storybook, bible,
all the sad things will becomeuntrue.
That day's coming.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah, and I think that is fully true and I'm
definitely not disagreeing atall.
That is fully true.
That day's coming, yeah, yeah,and I think that is fully true
and I'm definitely notdisagreeing at all.
Um, that is fully true.
And then you have this scenario, when you're in in it, that you
feel, um, maybe jealousy orquestion, questioning your, your
faith and questioning God'sgoodness, and I think those are
(27:13):
all welcome.
I remember, um, oh, I don'tremember exactly who it was that
said it, but I've heard thisquote once that, um, god's not
afraid of of our punches.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
And so it's okay to take them and and be frustrated
or upset or hurt and ask thosequestions to him.
Um, it's when we stop askingthose questions to him that
things start to get a little bitwild and, um, you know, I think
that's.
That's just one of the hardrealities is you see, something
that you've been asking for foryourself happened for somebody
(27:46):
else, and you as a person, as ahuman who's imperfect, who
doesn't have the whole vision infront of you, who doesn't know
the grand master plan, whodoesn't always feel like things
are working out for your good,you can cling to the truths that
I think it's Romans 8, that Godis working all things together
(28:10):
for the good of those who lovehim and for his own glory.
That's still true, that'sabsolutely true.
But in the middle of it, youcan't see how it's good, and so
you're asking these questionswhat am I supposed to feel, or
why do I still feel this way?
That's contrary to what I'mtrying to live out in my faith,
(28:32):
and I think that's just thereality.
Is it's okay, it's okay to feelthose things and it's okay to
ask those questions, it's okayto go to the Lord with that, and
I think that's ultimately a bigpush of why it's great to be in
community and to find yourselfwith people who will encourage
you with absolute truth of theword of God but also mourn with
(28:53):
you and also experience that,and I think that's just a
complicated feeling to have towork out.
And so it's so much easier Ishouldn't say easier it's so
much, it's less of a burden tobear when you are not bearing it
on your own.
And so, yeah, I just I findthat when Seth said that, I was
(29:16):
really grateful that he sharedthat story of his own, um, that
he about, about his, his, his,his I think it was his youngest
son or second youngest son Um,when they were in the hospital,
that was really meaningful to me.
To hear somebody share apersonal story like that, that
was like that was challengingand it worked out in the end.
I have a lot of friends thatthey've had things not work out
(29:39):
and yet I've also seen them finda lot of healing and find a lot
of hope.
And I don't have permission toname any names, obviously, at
this moment because I'm justthinking of this right now.
Text them, kevin, but I've, youknow they, they had a
miscarriage or or a baby diethat they still celebrate that
(30:02):
birthday and their, their kidsthat came after like still know
they have an older sibling andthey celebrate that and they
look to that day.
And so they found, even in thestruggle of that moment that I
watched them in when it happened, they found now, 10 years down
the road, this hope and thislooking forward to the day that
they will be reunited with theones that they love.
(30:23):
And so it's okay to feel theconflicting emotions and know
that things are true but nottotally feel right about it all
the time.
And I think that's one of thebeautiful things about community
that we can always point eachother back to is hey, people
feel it, people understand thatand they're with you and we can
live in that tension, I think.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
And also just recognize how biblical it is.
Like in the Psalms there areall these Psalms of lament,
meaning that God saw fit toplace within the Holy Scriptures
words for us to complain beforehim.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
And so I just flipped to one here, psalm 13.
You guys ready for this?
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah go.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
How long, o Lord, will you forget me forever?
How long will you hide yourface from me?
How long must I take counsel inmy soul and have sorrow in my
heart all the day?
And just if you're on the otherside of this and you're in that
spot where you are asking andyou're praying and you're
(31:28):
waiting, just that you need toknow that the Lord gives you
permission to come to him in oneof these laments.
It's like God, how long Bringyour whole self before him.
Like you said, kevin, like he'snot scared of anything.
He can handle it.
Jesus has walked the roadbefore us.
He identifies with every sorrowand pain point that we have and
(31:53):
it's actually a beautifulexercise of faith to go to God
with it.
And, like Kevin said, in thecontext of community.
That's why we have church,that's why we have each other.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
So I very recently had the experience of being the
opposite.
I was the answered prayer whensomeone else was struggling and
I had like when Seth waspreaching about this and just
looking at this whole story, Ihadn't made the correlation of
just how difficult thatsituation was too.
And it was a case of where I hadcalled a close friend of mine
(32:27):
because I was having a biopsydone of whether or not you know,
waiting to see if I had a typeof cancer.
And in that phone conversationmy friend revealed to me that
she had just received a cancerdiagnosis that I was unaware of
and we talked through that andtalked about her then at that
moment and I remember howanxious she was for my results.
(32:48):
And I remember how anxious shewas for my results and I
remember when I got my results,which were clear that I was fine
, I didn't want to tell herbecause I felt bad for the hurt
that she was in and selfishlyglad for myself and I didn't
know how to express that to her.
(33:09):
But when I did, she respondedwith such excitement and just
genuine joy for me that I wasn'tgoing to face what she was
feeling in that moment, just asa friend.
And so when you talk about thecommunity, like I think that's
on both sides of whether it isthe answered prayer or whether
(33:31):
it is the struggle, thatcommunity of just coming
together, that how we can takethose things to God is just an
amazing part of the humanexperience with a graceful
father like that.
Yeah, okay, so we're kind ofwrapping it up now.
What are you guys's finaltakeaways from this message?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
um, I referenced it earlier.
When they go to gyrus after thewound's been healed and they
say why your daughter is dead,why troubled the teacher any
longer?
I've heard it said, and I'veprobably even believed it at
times myself, just that eithermy need is either too big for
(34:22):
God or too small for God.
And so just to encourage youlistener, anything that you
bring to God is not troublesome,is not bothersome, because he
loves you so, so, so much, andhe's always moving toward our
(34:44):
wounds and not away.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, I think the end of his message like you were
talking about, dina, the get upthere's an activation and a
motivation for the believer totake their hurts, take their
pain, take their suffering andthen, whether or not they find
(35:08):
healing like true physicalhealing, they can find hope and
peace.
And when you have found that,you then can turn around and
offer that to others.
And I think you know that's oneof the beautiful things about
what you just shared, dina isyou know, you know that feeling
of the uncertainty and of thepain and we have other staff
members here at King of Kingsthat have gone through a year of
(35:32):
chemo and gone through a lossof of a of a loved one suddenly
and to be able to lean on eachother in that way.
So, whether you're on eitherside of that of someone who
needs that support, who needsthat understanding, or who has
it and is willing to give it tosomebody else, we all can be
motivated towards that action ofeither seeking it out, because
(35:55):
we are so deep in our sufferingand struggling, or seeking out
somebody to give that piece awaytoo.
And I just I think that's amajor activation for me out of
this week's message.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, that's really good.
So Seth said something at thevery end and he said His
resurrection is so much morepowerful than whatever has
caused our desperation.
And that stuck with me.
I was like, wow, I mean, weknow that it's much more
powerful than anything, but tothink about it in that context,
that in the moment, whatever itis that's making us desperate,
(36:35):
that God is still there, right?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, well, he relates to us in our sufferings
too, which is extremely biblical, but it's also kind of
following up what you saidearlier.
He doesn't just relate to us inthe victory.
He also was the one who he saidmy God, my God, why have you
forsaken me?
He relates to us on both sidesof it, and what a kind God to
(37:00):
meet us in any place that we'recurrently standing, and he meets
us there with absolute empathyand an understanding of where we
are, us there, with absoluteempathy and an understanding of
where we are.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah, Thank you guys so much for being here today and
sharing about this sometimeshard topic Like I'm excited to
hear more from this series.
So until next week, let's keepliving our faith.
Be on Sunday, Thank you.
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