September 11, 2023 • 46 mins
Lisa Deschamps, CEO of AviadoBio, shares her thoughts with BioBoss host John Simboli about leadership in biopharma and how AviadoBio is working to develop transformative medicines for patients living with debilitating and life-threatening neurodegenerative disorders.
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John Simboli (00:06):
Lisa, what led to your role as CEO of AviadoBio?
Lisa Deschamps (00:34):
I feel like I've been preparing for this role,
really, for my whole career. Asyou probably know, I spent over
25 years at Novartis leadingdifferent therapeutic areas,
(01:07):
started carrying the bag as asales rep. And I feel like that
foundation has really wellprepared me for taking on this
role as CEO. But probably themost relevant to taking on this
particular role in thisparticular company, my last few
roles at Novartis I was leadingour US neuro business and then
our global neuro business. Andin that last role, my team did
(01:28):
an acquisition of a gene therapycompany called AveXis. And then
I had the privilege, and it wasa sheer privilege, to launch
what is now the most widelyprescribed gene therapy in the
world, a product calledZolgensma, in SMA. And just
being a part of that opportunityand seeing the impact, honestly,
(01:48):
that it has on patients andfamilies and the community at
large, was just an amazinginflection point for me to say,
OK, I want to be more and domore, that can contribute more
widely to bringing therapieslike this to patients and truly
transforming care. And, ofcourse, it's a key strategic
area for Novartis. But, youknow, going into a company that
(02:09):
we're doing that all day, everyday, and only focused on gene
therapies is really what I had alot of passion to go out and
seek to do. So that's what ledme here.
John Simboli (02:19):
The decision to launch a new company, a new
biopharma company, is asignificant choice. Then there's
a question, of course,immediately, who should be the
CEO? Did you go through aprocess of thinking, I wonder if
I should lead this launch andidentify a CEO, or I wonder if I
should be the CEO as well?
Lisa Deschamps (02:38):
I felt like I was ready to be the CEO. You
know, again, I had prepared manyyears in different roles of
increasing responsibility. And Itake leadership and leading
teams and leading big ambitionslike this very seriously. But I
felt ready, I felt ready to goon and take on this role as CEO,
(02:58):
and really just work to kind ofinspire the team to get to the
ultimate goal, which is thevision that the company had
already set when I joined. Sowhen I joined there was already
a few managing members of theteam, management team, as well
as three scientific founders.
And the work that they weredoing just really spoke to me.
It's kind of like when you arelooking for a new home and you
(03:20):
see many homes and you'recritiquing each one. This one,
well, if it was only a littlebigger, spacious, more property,
etc. And then you walk into theperfect house, and it just
clicks, it just speaks to you.
That's kind of how I felt when Icame across AviadoBio.
John Simboli (03:38):
Having worked in a large corporation, a large
pharma company, for a number ofyears, suggests that you
actually were in many differentcompanies within that large
company, and you must havegained not only a significant
depth of experience, but abreadth of experience as well,
because the company is alwaysmutating and changing and
growing. And you're a part ofthat, right. Is that an accurate
(04:00):
statement?,
Lisa Deschamps (04:03):
Absolutely.To your point, I mean, 25 years at
Novartis felt like many, manycompanies all booked into one.
And I also had the privilege ofworking across many parts of the
globe. So you get thatopportunity in a large
pharmaceutical company with ahuge global footprint. So not
only did I work extensivelyacross the US, but got to really
experience different cultures,different regulatory
(04:26):
environments, differentreimbursement bodies all across
the world. It pretty much workedin every continent and managed
teams in every continent. So allof those things really ladder up
to it feeling like many, manycompanies, many opportunities
and the industry itself hastransformed significantly. From
the time I started and workingacross probably what we used to
(04:49):
call large general medicinestype of disease
areas—hypertension, cholesterol,really large metabolic
syndromes, etc., to much more—Ispent probably the last 15 In
years in my career in much morespecialized therapeutic areas
where you're dealing with rareand sometimes even ultra, ultra
rare disease, and that in itselfis a totally different
(05:12):
experience as well.
John Simboli (05:13):
As you saw the opportunity, what were you
anticipating that would be thesatisfying part of what could be
done at AviadoBio, that youmight might not be able to
achieve someplace else?
Lisa Deschamps (05:24):
I had to first believe in the science. It had
to be in an area that had a highunmet need, which for me, just
personally, is where my passionand purpose comes from. And it
had to be, then, the scientificpremise, if you will, had to be
compelling. I had to believe init and learn more about it. And
(05:44):
then at the end of the day, thelast part, which is not the
least part, by any means, is allabout the people. I had to
Can you recall, how was itsimilar to what you pictured?,
believe that I aligned to thevalues of the people that I
would be leading, such asscientific founders at the
beginning, as well as a numberof the founding management team.
Also the investors, were theyreally committed, or was it
(06:08):
people who were just looking tomake quick turn. And those were
just some of my key criteriawhere it had to speak to me. I
had to feel like, personally, inmy core, it was the right,
opportunity. As you say, wespend a lot of time at work. And
it's not always, Monday throughFriday, nine to five, in fact,
(06:29):
very rarely it is. And so youhave to believe in what you're
doing and have a passion aroundit. And so for me, when I
started looking for a new homeit had to it had to fit and had
Any things that were similar ordifferent?
The things that I found mostinspiring and maybe very
to be able to kind of align tomy core values and what I felt
was worthy of being a part of.
And this team has a verycompelling scientific premise.
(06:49):
And, most importantly, is comingfrom an inspiration of really
rallying around making arefreshing was, in a sense, the
courage of the people. And youdifference in patient care.
(07:17):
don't think about it maybe asmuch when you're in a big
organization. But certainly,when you get out into the
startup world and you thinkabout the courage it takes of
scientific founders ofinvestors, people who join as
employee number one and two, tocome together and do something.
And many times that has anuncharted path and is huge risk.
(07:39):
Often they lead something theywere very comfortable in whether
it was a high academic positionor a position at an industry,
and just come together becausethey align to that purpose. And
then they hold hands and theytake the risk together. To me,
that is the most inspiring partof of what I've seen so far. You
(08:00):
know it, but until youexperience it and become a part
of it, I think it's not astangible.
John Simboli (08:07):
If you're talking with someone from outside the
biopharma industry, and, perhapsyou get introduced to them
through a family connection,maybe and they say, Lisa, what
do you do for a living? How doyou like to answer that?
Lisa Deschamps (08:18):
We are transforming the lives of a
patient or we're striving, we'rechasing the opportunity to
transform the life of a patient.
And the impact that that canhave is not just on that one
patient or the in that onedisease area. But truly, if we
can solve some of these keychallenges, the utility of that
is so massive and so great. Andit's hard to make that sound
(08:41):
tangible for people.. Andsometimes it can even sound
corny—making a difference in theworld or transforming care. But
it is so true, right? We get upevery day and work so hard
because of the opportunity to dothat. Not because of titles or
money or any of that. It has todo with the opportunity to
(09:04):
really make a difference. And,pretty much, it's a common
thread. When you meet peopleacross industries, certainly
across functions and differentteam members, regardless of the
level, there's that kind ofanchor around the purpose of why
we do. The most important partof my job is about being able
and having the ability toinspire greatness out of my team
(09:26):
to achieve the extraordinarytogether. That is the first and
foremost most important thing.
If I can do that, successfully,we can achieve so much. A lot of
times, people just need tobelieve. They want to feel
inspired. I believe that my roleand the role of the entire
(09:48):
leadership team is to do that,is to inspire the teams. Anchor
people, of course around ourcommon purpose and our vision,
mission as a company, but if wecan inspire greatness out of our
teams, to achieve theextraordinary, we can have such
a massive impact on society,
John Simboli (10:06):
In a typical day, how much of your time is
thinking about how you want toimplement this strategy? I know
it's going to be different everyday, obviously, and how much of
it is meeting with the team andseeing where people are and
reaching consensus and makingdecisions? What that balance,
like?
Lisa Deschamps (10:23):
My style is to be very inclusive, and I feel
like we get the best out, ofwhether we're solving a
challenge or just discussing astrategy or etc. You know, it's
not just me sitting in my officeby myself with my two St.
Bernard's here, discussing it.
It's really about discussing itwith the people who are part of
that journey and debating. Anddebating is not something that
(10:46):
people are always comfortablewith. And I feel like every time
I've taken on, and worked in anew team, you see different
levels of comfort around that.
But my style is to get peoplearound the table. And if you're
around the table, you have acore responsibility, which is to
contribute to the conversation.
I don't care which swim laneyou're in, when you're at the
table, you can swim in any lane.
(11:07):
When you leave the table, you goback to your own swim lanes, and
you execute, of course, and weall have our role, depending on
the roles we play and thefunctions we lead. But my
passion is to bring peoplearound the table, and to really
strategize and debate and reallyprovoke those discussions to get
to a better outcome.
John Simboli (11:28):
And then there are those days when you're helping
to tell a story, like what we'redoing today, whether it's in a
media environment, or perhaps aninvestor conference. It could be
lots of different places, buthow does the storytelling part
fall into the priorities for aCEO for you, as a CEO?
Lisa Deschamps (11:45):
The storytelling part is so important. And I
think it's one that peopleunderestimate, because if you
don't know what you're focusedon, as a company ond how you're
going to achieve that, and beable to tell it in a very simple
way, it's hard to bring peoplealong with you. And that's true
internally, as well asexternally. The storytelling
(12:06):
part is just as important toyour teams, internally, and to
the organization and helpingpeople, themselves, tell that
story to others. And if youthink about the impact that can
have, if we're all telling thisstory, and communicating how
we're set out on this missionand how we're going to do it
together. And then from anexternal environment
(12:28):
perspective, people are simplein nature, including myself, and
we need to know simply, what arewe set out to do? And how will
we do it? And it has to be in away that's concise and memorable
and clear.
John Simboli (12:41):
Let me look at the other side of being an
entrepreneur or being at theearly stages of building a new
company. There's also theunpredictable aspect of it. It's
the nature of biopharma thatdata change, and it's in the
nature of science that what wethink we know turns out to be
not something that we know, downthe road. But there's also those
(13:05):
moments I'm thinking about, whenwe have to deal with the
immediate thing. I'm thinkingabout a founder I spoke with who
said, well, their days, John,when I feel like I'm at the
bottom floor of a building withfaulty electrical engineering or
something like that, and thingsare falling down through. It's
my job to catch them, and sortof put them back in place so
(13:27):
that we can go back to doing ourjobs. That's not a pleasant part
of being a CEO, but I imaginethat is a part of it.
Lisa Deschamps (13:32):
Absolutely. So I always say the science is the
science and all we can do is setourselves best up to to execute
the science, but the sciencewill be the science, the rest of
it is an art. And the art ofbeing able to lead, weather any
(13:52):
storm, it's really about howyou're able to manage that. And
the role that I feel I play inthat is keeping ourselves and
the teams anchored on thepurpose and our mission at hand.
And being calm and cool andcollected, I guess, in a sense,
(14:13):
to help the teams continueforward. And not everybody takes
those twists and turns with thesame level of comfort. You do
see, depending on the experiencelevels, more anxiety or less or
things like that. My role is tomake sure we continue to be the
(14:34):
purveyor of hope, if you will,and stay true to our mission.
And again, not everything willgo right. In fact, it's quite
the opposite. And we have to bewilling to continue on because
we believe, we relentlesslybelieve in what we're doing.
When opportunities arise, youhave to take them right and
sometimes it's a totallydifferent path than than you
(14:55):
expected. Actually, I've foundin leading teams, sometimes the
worst thing that happens is wethink we know it all., We're not
even open to what we don't know.
This is why, also, I love theidea of bringing
cross-functional teams aroundthe table, even if it's
something that's very specificto one group, because the less
(15:17):
people know, the more value Ithink they bring to the
conversation, sometimes. And,and I think, the same is true in
a sense of serendipity. asyou're bringing it up, we often
have things that come along,that could be opportunistic, but
sometimes you see teams saying,well, that's not what we're
doing, which is maybe OK. Youknow, focus is knowing what
(15:39):
you're not doing. But sometimesit's so opportunistic, that you
may have to change what youthought was true yesterday to be
able to kind of springboardforward. So, absolutely, I think
it's being able to just balanceall those things, weather the
storm, know that you have aplace you're headed, a
destination, but along the wayyou may encounter—whether it's
(16:01):
turbulence or smooth, smoothsailing and be able to
capitalize on certainopportunities and weather the
storms. A nd that's just thereality of the work we need to
do.
(16:23):
You're coming across one of thethings that, actually, I find
most energizing about being aleader, and is one of my biggest
areas I feel like it's importantto lead teams— is when people
don't even think something ispossible, and rallying them
together. Inspiring thatgreatness is the most rewarding
(16:44):
role as a leader. When you seepeople go from extreme doubt, to
believing something's possible,to the light goes off in their
head, and they're fighting forit every step of the way. And
I've seen that along my career.
And it is so rewarding, not onlyfor the ultimate outcome, which
can, again, hopefully make adifference in a person's life,
but also just from the personalgrowth that you see. And the
(17:04):
excitement and inspiration thatyou see the team, themselves, go
along. And so, I think some ofthe best pivots come from those
opportunities. But again, oftenyou have to break through that
clutter of people like, No, no,no, no, that's not the plan, or
no, no, that's not possible..
(17:25):
And if you could break throughthat clutter, as a leader, is
really so rewarding.
John Simboli (17:32):
In order to do that, is there an aspect of
visualizing? Do you findsometimes that you can help
someone on a team picturesomething they haven't pictured
before? Or is that their job topicture that?
Lisa Deschamps (17:45):
Oh, no, I definitely think it's my job to
help them picture that. Not tofully picture it for them, but
to help facilitate thevisualization, as you say, of
that. I do think it depends onthe team. I've been in
situations in the past wheremaybe you have a highly
analytical group. And so, thenumbers may not add up to
(18:08):
thinking this is could be areality, so you have to tailor
your style to, sometimes, usingexamples where quantitative
answers are not going to help usget there. And other times, it
could just be a story or ananalog or something like that.
And sometimes, you may have tobe even a bit more directive:
(18:33):
this is the expectation, so goand find a way to do it, and
then send them off. And thestress that you can see on
people's face, but then you seethat transition where they come
back, maybe it's not the firsttime, the second time, but the
third time where they themselvesnow believe, like they found an
opportunity, and they get soenergized by going on that path.
(18:53):
And again, I think that's trulywhen you can achieve greatness
and extraordinary thingstogether, is in those moments.
John Simboli (19:01):
Let me ask one more question about the getting
to know Lisa part, and thenwe'll talk a little bit about
getting to know AviadoBio. Canyou recall when you were a young
person, maybe eight or nine or10, or whatever is the
appropriate age and you'retrying to picture, I know my
parents would like me to be thiswhen I grew up. Was there
anything you can recallthrilling you or making you
(19:21):
think, Ah, this is somethingthat gets a hold of me? And if
so, if you can remember that,does that have anything to do
with your professional life?
Lisa Deschamps (19:30):
I did used to want to be a journalist, kind of
an investigative reporter. I'mvery inquisitive. And I think
the foundation of who I am is toask tons of questions. My team
will, for sure tell you that.
Maybe I wouldn't have thought ofthat to here, but maybe in the
(19:50):
in the transition, thefactfinding nature and
inquisitive nature of a childwho wants to know it all or to
find the answers, in a sense,does, of course, nicely
translate to science. And thehypothesis of me trying to find
the answers and prove them.
(20:14):
Later on I had other interests,I was very interested in fashion
and other things.. So my owncareer has taken some twists and
turns, of where I thought Iwould go to pivoting to where I
ended up. And I'm forevergrateful, because I don't think
I could have found a morerewarding field to be in and
certainly career where you canactually touch so many people's
(20:36):
lives. But it didn't start outin that. But I do think the
inquisitive nature is veryrelevant.
John Simboli (20:44):
When you were at Novartis, did you find
experiences along the way therewhere you got close to seeing
what patients and families weredealing with that also directed
where you want to go with yourprofessional life?
Lisa Deschamps (20:56):
Absolutely.
Novartis, is a verypatient-centric organization.
And I've had the privilege tolaunch,, prior to the gene
therapy launch, 14 otherproducts in my career, in
different capacities, as I movedthrough the organization in
different roles, of increasingresponsibility. And in every one
of those, I had the opportunityto meet patients, families,
(21:18):
advocacy groups, physicians, ofcourse, that were treating loved
ones of families. When thatcomes to life, you can never go
back, you can never do anythingelse, because it's so
contagious. And you feel like,there's such purpose in what you
do. And maybe it starts out verytransactional. But, you know,
(21:38):
shortly it transitions to reallyunderstanding the magnitude of
the work we're doing. One of thethings I tell my teams, because,
in my organization today,obviously, there's a lot of
people in the labs every dayworking on very early parts of
the discovery. So it feels farfrom them, from the patient. And
one of the things I say is,every person plays a role. So
(22:00):
whether you're looking atsomething in the very early
discovery phase, and you'reprocessing tissues, and creating
assays, or you're doing clinicaloperations and getting ready to
execute a clinical trial, ifthat person who was doing the
tissue processing and assaysdidn't do their role, we would
(22:21):
have never got to regulatoryenabling studies to then start a
clinical trial. And I constantlykind of educate people on every
role, and how every role laddersup to that end result of truly
impacting a patient. Becauseotherwise, people don't have
that connectivity. And also thatsense of purpose. And no matter
what role you play in anorganization like mine, or
(22:42):
others that I've worked in thepast, it really does ladder up
to that, and I feel veryfortunate. And certainly the
role in launching a gene therapyand meeting, in this case, kids,
and family, parents–their kidsmay not have lived past two
years old—was like nothing I hadever experienced. It was very
(23:03):
hard, emotionally, ethically,you just think about wanting to
bring so much more to so manymore families and the role that
you and your team plays in that.
You take it very seriously.
John Simboli (23:19):
Lisa, what do you say when people ask who is
AviadoBio?
Lisa Deschamps (23:23):
AviadoBio is a drug and delivery company. So
that's in its simplest form,what I say. But our mission is
to develop and delivertransformative gene therapies to
those living with neurologicalconditions. And our focus on
being able to pay that off isbeing able to deliver these
medications in a way that canmaximize therapeutic benefit for
(23:46):
a patient without any of thenegative safety baggage that can
come along with it. So we arebasically taking things that we
know a lot about, like AAV9 ormicro-RNA and changing something
big about it. So we're takingwhat we know, even things that
have regulatory paths alreadyapproved and things like that,
(24:08):
but changing the way we deliverit into the person. So in our
lead program, let's take that asan example, which is in
frontotemporal dementia, inpatients who have a specific
mutation. Basically, we aregoing directly into their brain.
So instead of delivering itsystemically like an infusion,
we're going directly into thebrain, into a part of the brain,
(24:30):
which is the thalamus that in asense is the central relay hub.
It delivers through billions ofsets and synapses to other parts
of the brain. And by doing itthis way, we can be very
targeted and efficient, givevery small doses to patients.
And hopefully, ultimately, whatwe've seen so far in three
(24:51):
different animal species isminimize any negative safety
effects. And this has been a keychallenge. In CNS disease today,
not specific to gene therapies,but in CNS overall, crossing the
blood brain barrier is verydifficult. And our body's
defense is to protect our brain.
So the the blood brain barrierdevelops when you're only a
(25:17):
couple of years old, fully, andits role is to allow nutrients
into the body, but protect fromany harmful toxicities. So any
pharmaceutical or drugtherapeutic gene therapy, etc,
will face the same challenge,which is it goes on the defense
to protect the brain. And thisis why treating CNS diseases is
so challenging. Where we feeldifferentiated from what other
(25:42):
gene therapies are doing is thatwe're going direct into the
brain through the thalamus to beable to deliver very small doses
without any of the negativesafety potential side effects.
So we're very excited. It'sbold, it's a very bold approach.
But again, we're takingsomething that we know a lot
about, which is AAV9, which hasalready an approved regulatory
(26:03):
path, etc, we know a lot of itspositives, as well as
limitations, and we're changingthe delivery approach which we
feel will get the best of both.
We'll get something that we knowa lot about therapeutically, and
we'll deliver it in a way thathas been a big challenge for
others. We are, in our leadprogram and our first program,
(26:26):
we are a gene supplementation.
So the mechanism of action isbasically taking a gene, in this
case, it's called GRN gene thatis not working or functioning
and replacing that with afunctioning copy of the gene. So
it replaces the functioning andthe the goal of the mechanism of
action, in a sense, is torestore a person's progranulin
(26:48):
levels in the body. For ahealthy individual, you have a
certain level of progranulin inyour body, which protects your
body and helps it to work,cognitively and function
normally. For someone who has afrontotemporal dementia, they
may have only about 30% of theprogranulin levels that you have
(27:09):
in your own body. The mechanismand the approach that we're
taking is to restore tthepatient's progranulin levels to
as close to normal as possible,to what a healthy individual
has. And we're doing that in away, again, with the focus on
delivery, which is a verydirect, into the brain,
approach. People who havefrontotemporal dementia have
(27:32):
their frontal and temporal areasof their brain, cortical areas
of their brain is where itstarts, it becomes a global
disease in nature as itprogresses. So we want to go
into the thalamus and not onlyhit those frontal and temporal
areas, but also have broaddistribution into the brain. So
(27:54):
as the disease progresses, itprevents it from further
progression and we can maximizethe biodistribution across the
board. So again, the mechanismis to restore progranulin levels
in a patient who hasfrontotemporal dementia to
healthy and normal levels of aperson who doesn't. And the
approach, delivery approach, todo it is to go very direct into
(28:17):
a part of the brain that we feelcan maximize the distribution
and be able to have the besttherapeutic benefit.
John Simboli (28:27):
If Aviado Bio progresses, where you hope it
will, and if the restoc rationbecomes a reality someday, how
incremental or transformational?
Where will you fall on that asyou try to picture the life life
of a particular person who's hadthe treatment?
Lisa Deschamps (28:43):
Like in all gene therapies, depending on how
early you get the patient, in aperfect world, we prove this in
patients who are symptomaticthan in patients who are not
even symptomatic, yet,pre-symptomatic. They could
still be dosed and prevent thedisease from ever starting. So
obviously, there's genetictesting and all the things that
(29:07):
would need to go along with it.
But if you think about that, youcould eradicate disease, in a
sense, if you can get it beforeit even starts. So that's the
big picture, prize at the end ofthe day. But also, it's not just
specific to this program infrontotemporal dementia, if we
could truly solve the deliverychallenges that are seen in
(29:28):
neurological conditions todayand are preventing progress in
neurological conditions today,the utility of that is so much
even broader than frontotemporaldementia.
John Simboli (29:43):
So let me talk about this from an investor
viewpoint for a moment I canpicture and have witnessed
presentations where the CEOdescribes a bit of what you're
describing and then a certainpercentage of the people say,
I'm interested, let's talk more.
A certain percentage say, Oh, Iunderstand, just not a good
match. And then there's theinteresting group, somewhere in
(30:03):
there, that says, Oh, I think Iunderstand it. And then you
realize, by the nature of theirquestions, they've heard
something different than whatyou've intended. They filtered
out something or they've,there's something else going on.
When that happens, is there anykind of pattern? I know that it
may be too early to know this?
But is there a pattern wherepeople say, Oh, I think I see
what you're doing, Lisa? Andthen you say, well, actually,
(30:25):
we're doing this, let me helpyou understand what we're really
doing.
Lisa Deschamps (30:28):
One of the most common times that that happens
is we have competitors in thespace. progranulin is a big area
of interest, not only infrontotemporal dementia, but
could be broadly inneurodegenerative disease. And
so, when people hear, okay, wehave a program, focused on
restoring progranulin levels andunderstand the role progranulin
plays, sometimes they lose thatwe're delivering it in a very
(30:52):
different way, piece of it. Andso they'll kind of lump
everything together. Okay, yeah,I get it. It's a competitive
space, there's others doing it,Why should we care about what
you're doing, versus what othersare doing, or is everyone just
the same? How will you know,even, that the way you're
delivering it has adifferentiating benefit, and
even potentially a higherprobability of success versus
(31:13):
the others. And that's when wehave to pause and almost rewind
again and say, OK, let's talkabout our delivery approach and
why we feel it's different. Andin fact, we've even looked at
other constructs and deliveringit in similar ways to others.
And we firsthand can tell you,it may not work or it may not
deliver the best benefit forpatients in the safest way
(31:34):
possible. And so, we have toreally hone in on that, because
the way we are going about ourfocus, the way we are going
about our pipeline in general,not only from the lead program,
but all the way through, iseverything has that hyper-focus
on delivery, and overcoming thatkey challenge, whether it's in
the brain for blood brainbarrier for diseases that are
(31:55):
more, cortical in nature, or inthe spinal cord and diseases
that have more spinal cordinvolvement. So that is really
the essence of whatdifferentiates us as a company.
And if an investor or astakeholder misses that we must
go back, and I don't want to saycorrect, but re-educate on on
(32:15):
the core essence.
John Simboli (32:17):
How does the pipeline of AviadoBio express
your vision for the company?
Lisa Deschamps (32:21):
it's very much focused on being able to
overcome some of the biggestchallenges in neurological
conditions today and forms ofdementia. So in FTD, I don't
even know if you know this, butit's the most common form of
dementia in patients under theage of 60. So it hits people so
young. So part of this is aneducational piece and getting
(32:42):
people to realize. I mean, youprobably have seen Bruce Willis,
unfortunately, his recentdiagnosis is in frontotemporal
dimension, probably most peoplehave never even heard of that.
And then our pipeline,currently, the rest of the other
four programs that we have indevelopment, a little bit
earlier in the discovery phase,are in ALS. And we all know ALS
is another huge area of unmetneed. And while there's some
(33:06):
potential new therapies coming,they're still not going to be as
transformative as a gene therapycan be, truly with a one time
administration, hopefullyprovide a lifelong benefit. Of
course, we have to prove allthose things. But we believe in
ALS, just as well as infrontotemporal dementia, the
best opportunity a patient canhave will be to deliver it in a
(33:29):
very different way. And so inour pipeline programs, we are
taking another bold deliveryapproach, which is called
sub-pial. Basically, we'velicensed exclusively in across
all CNS disease, in genetherapy, from a company called
Neurgain, in California, asub-pial delivery platform,
(33:51):
let's call it, which includesthe approach as well as the
actual delivery technology toenable that delivery. And so,
for diseases like ALS, where itgoes right into the spinal cord,
we believe we can have truly atransformative and
differentiating effect, and noone else is doing that in ALS
today.
John Simboli (34:11):
What kind of partners are a good fit to
AviadoBio?
Lisa Deschamps (34:14):
It's kind of multidisciplinary. So, of
course, we have the academicpartnerships which are critical
to not only sometimes where theconcepts are born, as as it was
here, AviadoBio is a spin out ofProfessor Chris Shaw's lab, you
know, King's College London, sothe science was born in the
academic institution, but alsoremain to be partners in
(34:36):
executing the development as wego along. We often partner to do
some of the animal work andthings like that, as well as
explore together some otherpotential areas of innovation.
And so academia is extremelyimportant. Also, big pharma, as
they call it, is very importantto be able to potentially
(35:00):
partner whether that's today orin the future to co-develop and
or co-commercialize over overtime. And so those are key
stakeholders. And then ofcourse, and this is certainly
not in this order, but you know,the community at large. So the
patient advocacy groups,caregivers themselves,
(35:22):
clinicians who treat patients. Imean, these are other important
partnerships. We need to beinformed and guided by what we
hear from the community andwhere the needs are, and how we
can best tailor our programs tomeet those needs. And in
addition to that, even otherbiotech startups or companies
(35:44):
who you could say arecompetitors, in a sense, but we
actually are all small together,but we create a large force as
one. And so we need to learn tocollaborate. And we often do
that. I talk to many other peerCEOs, where we're collaborating
or taking learnings and sharingthem. Because at the end of the
(36:04):
day, we can only really advanceour cause and our mission
together if we if we share andcollaborate and learn from one
another, and at times, work evenmore directly with each other.
John Simboli (36:16):
As you look towards the future of where
biopharma is going, and wherewhat you can contribute, and
what AviadoBio can contribute,are there any particular areas
of it that catch your attentionthat make you think this is
where I can fit in, where I canreally contribute, where I want
to contribute?
Lisa Deschamps (36:33):
I've spent my career in being part of, in a
sense commercialized drugs andbringing pipeline to
commercialization, whether itwas 10 years before, etc. And
so, I think the opportunity thatI have, or the experience that I
have that can really help thiscompany, and hopefully the
(36:53):
industry at large, is justreally thinking about what does
that end goal look like? And howdo we really make it a reality?
Because, again, each part of thejourney plays a critical role to
get there. But you have to alsohave a vision about what that
destination looks like. And youhave to think of practically,
OK, how does every decision wemake and every step practically
(37:15):
ladder up to making that areality. I'll give you an
example, bringing geneticmedicines to patients is
something that there's lots ofpeople rallied around doing
right now. And we truly all knowthat if we can, in diseases that
are monogenic, and that mutationis known, and you can truly
address the root cause of thedisease, you can have a major
(37:37):
preventative and transformativeimpact, and potentially even the
opportunity to eradicate diseaseas we were just talking about.
But what is it going to take toactually make that a reality?
Part of that is the drugs, ofcourse, and the clinical and
regulatory path they will face.
But the other part of that iseverything else that needs to be
enabled to make that a realityfor patients. And sometimes
(37:59):
those things get lost in thescience focus and the regulatory
focus. And, again, each part ofit is so important. And so as I
think about genetic medicines,and having launched a genetic
medicine, gene therapy prior,you know, all the other stuff
becomes a huge reality, once thescience part is is finished,,
(38:20):
and the regulatory part. And ifyou hadn't planned for it along
the journey, you won't besuccessful, and patients won't
get the therapy. And so thingslike implementing genetic
testing, and if you think aboutin the disease areas that we're
focused on, they're affectingpeople older in life. And so, as
part of our normal routine careas healthy individuals today,
(38:41):
we're not getting normalcognitive tests. We may get
mammograms or colonoscopies orother things that we have been
established now for decades. Butwhen you think about dementia,
or ALS, or some of these otherneurological conditions, unless
you have symptoms, or there's agenetic known defect in your
(39:01):
family, you're not gettinganything proactively by your
physician. I'm obsessed aboutthis. So if you think about
this, how do we make sure thatwith all of those companies like
ours, developing gene therapies,cell and gene therapies, how do
we make sure that at the end ofthe day, people can really
benefit from them? 1ot just thepeople who are already
(39:23):
symptomatic, where the magnitudeof benefit will be important,
but not as great as it could befor those that aren't even
symptomatic yet or don't evenknow that they may have this
potential issue. So that's whereI feel like, from my very
executional experience inlaunching therapies, I can bring
that value to think about, OK,what needs to be true for the
(39:45):
future that assuming success ofthese programs at large, what
would need to be true to ensurewe could have the greatest
potential impact as possible forpatients?
John Simboli (39:58):
What you're talking about is a pragmatic
possibility for something on ahuge scale. How do you move
forward without getting stuck,immmobilized?
Lisa Deschamps (40:08):
It's a great question. And it's one that the
answer will evolve, as you say,over time. But it goes back to
the to the comment you madeearlier around the importance of
partnerships. This will takepartnerships, there's no
question about it, it will takepartnership with the community,
it will take partnerships acrossthe industry. And we can't see
(40:31):
ourselves as competitors, here,we have to see ourselves as all
working together for the commongood. And it will take, I always
say, it takes a village to dothese things. And ther's
village, usually, surroundingjust one particular patient,
because that's what it takes.
And so it will requirepartnerships, it will require
passion and perseverance. You'rechanging, potentially, policy in
(40:54):
the future to enable thesethings to happen. Having had the
experience with Zolgensma, wedid a lot of that, but it takes
time effort, and it takes thatvision, and then it takes the
collaboration across thecommunity. As gene therapies
become more of the standard ofcare, versus the one-offs
policy, will need to change.
(41:17):
Policy as it relates to when apatient turns maybe 40 years
old, what is normal practice forassessing some of these things
that might be related to CNS orneurological conditions overall.
They're not currently part ofmedical practice, proactively.
They're more reactive, if youwill. So we'll need to shift
(41:38):
from reactive to proactive insome of these areas where now we
do have treatments for and weshould be looking. In addition,
policy will play a role incollaboration and partnerships.
So policy makers, you have tounderstand, with anywith any
stakeholder, you have tounderstand what's important for
them. So as it relates topolicymakers, and where is the
(42:01):
common thread and the mutualarea of interest, and certainly
will be on societal burden,health care utilization, cost,
effectiveness and all of thosethings. So you have to think
about, okay, if we were tochange policy or advocate to
change policy in any way, whywould that make sense? What
would need to be true for eachof the individual stakeholders,
(42:24):
the policymaker, the physician,the caregivers, all of us at
large, because finding themutual interest, and then
finding what's important to eachstakeholder and how that can pay
off is critical. To bring peopletogether to make something which
seems so far off and so big,almost intangible. But to be
able to break it up into smallbits and make it angible enough
(42:48):
to become a reality takes takesvision, takes understanding
what's important to eachstakeholder and certainly takes
bringing people around the tabletogether to align on the common
area of interest. And then Itruly believe we can get there,
but it will take effort,planning and real thought around
it. But you do it because thethe the possibility is so great.
(43:12):
We're providing possibilitieswhere there may not have been
any in the past and I couldn'tthink of a greater inspiration
than that.
John Simboli (43:22):
Lisa, thanks for speaking with me today. I
enjoyed our conversation.
Lisa Deschamps (43:26):
Thank you, John.
It has been such a pleasure.
Lisa, what led to your role as CEO of AviadoBio?
Lisa Deschamps (00:34):
I feel like I've been preparing for this role,
really, for my whole career. Asyou probably know, I spent over
25 years at Novartis leadingdifferent therapeutic areas,
(01:07):
started carrying the bag as asales rep. And I feel like that
foundation has really wellprepared me for taking on this
role as CEO. But probably themost relevant to taking on this
particular role in thisparticular company, my last few
roles at Novartis I was leadingour US neuro business and then
our global neuro business. Andin that last role, my team did
(01:28):
an acquisition of a gene therapycompany called AveXis. And then
I had the privilege, and it wasa sheer privilege, to launch
what is now the most widelyprescribed gene therapy in the
world, a product calledZolgensma, in SMA. And just
being a part of that opportunityand seeing the impact, honestly,
(01:48):
that it has on patients andfamilies and the community at
large, was just an amazinginflection point for me to say,
OK, I want to be more and domore, that can contribute more
widely to bringing therapieslike this to patients and truly
transforming care. And, ofcourse, it's a key strategic
area for Novartis. But, youknow, going into a company that
(02:09):
we're doing that all day, everyday, and only focused on gene
therapies is really what I had alot of passion to go out and
seek to do. So that's what ledme here.
John Simboli (02:19):
The decision to launch a new company, a new
biopharma company, is asignificant choice. Then there's
a question, of course,immediately, who should be the
CEO? Did you go through aprocess of thinking, I wonder if
I should lead this launch andidentify a CEO, or I wonder if I
should be the CEO as well?
Lisa Deschamps (02:38):
I felt like I was ready to be the CEO. You
know, again, I had prepared manyyears in different roles of
increasing responsibility. And Itake leadership and leading
teams and leading big ambitionslike this very seriously. But I
felt ready, I felt ready to goon and take on this role as CEO,
(02:58):
and really just work to kind ofinspire the team to get to the
ultimate goal, which is thevision that the company had
already set when I joined. Sowhen I joined there was already
a few managing members of theteam, management team, as well
as three scientific founders.
And the work that they weredoing just really spoke to me.
It's kind of like when you arelooking for a new home and you
(03:20):
see many homes and you'recritiquing each one. This one,
well, if it was only a littlebigger, spacious, more property,
etc. And then you walk into theperfect house, and it just
clicks, it just speaks to you.
That's kind of how I felt when Icame across AviadoBio.
John Simboli (03:38):
Having worked in a large corporation, a large
pharma company, for a number ofyears, suggests that you
actually were in many differentcompanies within that large
company, and you must havegained not only a significant
depth of experience, but abreadth of experience as well,
because the company is alwaysmutating and changing and
growing. And you're a part ofthat, right. Is that an accurate
(04:00):
statement?,
Lisa Deschamps (04:03):
Absolutely.To your point, I mean, 25 years at
Novartis felt like many, manycompanies all booked into one.
And I also had the privilege ofworking across many parts of the
globe. So you get thatopportunity in a large
pharmaceutical company with ahuge global footprint. So not
only did I work extensivelyacross the US, but got to really
experience different cultures,different regulatory
(04:26):
environments, differentreimbursement bodies all across
the world. It pretty much workedin every continent and managed
teams in every continent. So allof those things really ladder up
to it feeling like many, manycompanies, many opportunities
and the industry itself hastransformed significantly. From
the time I started and workingacross probably what we used to
(04:49):
call large general medicinestype of disease
areas—hypertension, cholesterol,really large metabolic
syndromes, etc., to much more—Ispent probably the last 15 In
years in my career in much morespecialized therapeutic areas
where you're dealing with rareand sometimes even ultra, ultra
rare disease, and that in itselfis a totally different
(05:12):
experience as well.
John Simboli (05:13):
As you saw the opportunity, what were you
anticipating that would be thesatisfying part of what could be
done at AviadoBio, that youmight might not be able to
achieve someplace else?
Lisa Deschamps (05:24):
I had to first believe in the science. It had
to be in an area that had a highunmet need, which for me, just
personally, is where my passionand purpose comes from. And it
had to be, then, the scientificpremise, if you will, had to be
compelling. I had to believe init and learn more about it. And
(05:44):
then at the end of the day, thelast part, which is not the
least part, by any means, is allabout the people. I had to
Can you recall, how was itsimilar to what you pictured?,
believe that I aligned to thevalues of the people that I
would be leading, such asscientific founders at the
beginning, as well as a numberof the founding management team.
Also the investors, were theyreally committed, or was it
(06:08):
people who were just looking tomake quick turn. And those were
just some of my key criteriawhere it had to speak to me. I
had to feel like, personally, inmy core, it was the right,
opportunity. As you say, wespend a lot of time at work. And
it's not always, Monday throughFriday, nine to five, in fact,
(06:29):
very rarely it is. And so youhave to believe in what you're
doing and have a passion aroundit. And so for me, when I
started looking for a new homeit had to it had to fit and had
Any things that were similar ordifferent?
The things that I found mostinspiring and maybe very
to be able to kind of align tomy core values and what I felt
was worthy of being a part of.
And this team has a verycompelling scientific premise.
(06:49):
And, most importantly, is comingfrom an inspiration of really
rallying around making arefreshing was, in a sense, the
courage of the people. And youdifference in patient care.
(07:17):
don't think about it maybe asmuch when you're in a big
organization. But certainly,when you get out into the
startup world and you thinkabout the courage it takes of
scientific founders ofinvestors, people who join as
employee number one and two, tocome together and do something.
And many times that has anuncharted path and is huge risk.
(07:39):
Often they lead something theywere very comfortable in whether
it was a high academic positionor a position at an industry,
and just come together becausethey align to that purpose. And
then they hold hands and theytake the risk together. To me,
that is the most inspiring partof of what I've seen so far. You
(08:00):
know it, but until youexperience it and become a part
of it, I think it's not astangible.
John Simboli (08:07):
If you're talking with someone from outside the
biopharma industry, and, perhapsyou get introduced to them
through a family connection,maybe and they say, Lisa, what
do you do for a living? How doyou like to answer that?
Lisa Deschamps (08:18):
We are transforming the lives of a
patient or we're striving, we'rechasing the opportunity to
transform the life of a patient.
And the impact that that canhave is not just on that one
patient or the in that onedisease area. But truly, if we
can solve some of these keychallenges, the utility of that
is so massive and so great. Andit's hard to make that sound
(08:41):
tangible for people.. Andsometimes it can even sound
corny—making a difference in theworld or transforming care. But
it is so true, right? We get upevery day and work so hard
because of the opportunity to dothat. Not because of titles or
money or any of that. It has todo with the opportunity to
(09:04):
really make a difference. And,pretty much, it's a common
thread. When you meet peopleacross industries, certainly
across functions and differentteam members, regardless of the
level, there's that kind ofanchor around the purpose of why
we do. The most important partof my job is about being able
and having the ability toinspire greatness out of my team
(09:26):
to achieve the extraordinarytogether. That is the first and
foremost most important thing.
If I can do that, successfully,we can achieve so much. A lot of
times, people just need tobelieve. They want to feel
inspired. I believe that my roleand the role of the entire
(09:48):
leadership team is to do that,is to inspire the teams. Anchor
people, of course around ourcommon purpose and our vision,
mission as a company, but if wecan inspire greatness out of our
teams, to achieve theextraordinary, we can have such
a massive impact on society,
John Simboli (10:06):
In a typical day, how much of your time is
thinking about how you want toimplement this strategy? I know
it's going to be different everyday, obviously, and how much of
it is meeting with the team andseeing where people are and
reaching consensus and makingdecisions? What that balance,
like?
Lisa Deschamps (10:23):
My style is to be very inclusive, and I feel
like we get the best out, ofwhether we're solving a
challenge or just discussing astrategy or etc. You know, it's
not just me sitting in my officeby myself with my two St.
Bernard's here, discussing it.
It's really about discussing itwith the people who are part of
that journey and debating. Anddebating is not something that
(10:46):
people are always comfortablewith. And I feel like every time
I've taken on, and worked in anew team, you see different
levels of comfort around that.
But my style is to get peoplearound the table. And if you're
around the table, you have acore responsibility, which is to
contribute to the conversation.
I don't care which swim laneyou're in, when you're at the
table, you can swim in any lane.
(11:07):
When you leave the table, you goback to your own swim lanes, and
you execute, of course, and weall have our role, depending on
the roles we play and thefunctions we lead. But my
passion is to bring peoplearound the table, and to really
strategize and debate and reallyprovoke those discussions to get
to a better outcome.
John Simboli (11:28):
And then there are those days when you're helping
to tell a story, like what we'redoing today, whether it's in a
media environment, or perhaps aninvestor conference. It could be
lots of different places, buthow does the storytelling part
fall into the priorities for aCEO for you, as a CEO?
Lisa Deschamps (11:45):
The storytelling part is so important. And I
think it's one that peopleunderestimate, because if you
don't know what you're focusedon, as a company ond how you're
going to achieve that, and beable to tell it in a very simple
way, it's hard to bring peoplealong with you. And that's true
internally, as well asexternally. The storytelling
(12:06):
part is just as important toyour teams, internally, and to
the organization and helpingpeople, themselves, tell that
story to others. And if youthink about the impact that can
have, if we're all telling thisstory, and communicating how
we're set out on this missionand how we're going to do it
together. And then from anexternal environment
(12:28):
perspective, people are simplein nature, including myself, and
we need to know simply, what arewe set out to do? And how will
we do it? And it has to be in away that's concise and memorable
and clear.
John Simboli (12:41):
Let me look at the other side of being an
entrepreneur or being at theearly stages of building a new
company. There's also theunpredictable aspect of it. It's
the nature of biopharma thatdata change, and it's in the
nature of science that what wethink we know turns out to be
not something that we know, downthe road. But there's also those
(13:05):
moments I'm thinking about, whenwe have to deal with the
immediate thing. I'm thinkingabout a founder I spoke with who
said, well, their days, John,when I feel like I'm at the
bottom floor of a building withfaulty electrical engineering or
something like that, and thingsare falling down through. It's
my job to catch them, and sortof put them back in place so
(13:27):
that we can go back to doing ourjobs. That's not a pleasant part
of being a CEO, but I imaginethat is a part of it.
Lisa Deschamps (13:32):
Absolutely. So I always say the science is the
science and all we can do is setourselves best up to to execute
the science, but the sciencewill be the science, the rest of
it is an art. And the art ofbeing able to lead, weather any
(13:52):
storm, it's really about howyou're able to manage that. And
the role that I feel I play inthat is keeping ourselves and
the teams anchored on thepurpose and our mission at hand.
And being calm and cool andcollected, I guess, in a sense,
(14:13):
to help the teams continueforward. And not everybody takes
those twists and turns with thesame level of comfort. You do
see, depending on the experiencelevels, more anxiety or less or
things like that. My role is tomake sure we continue to be the
(14:34):
purveyor of hope, if you will,and stay true to our mission.
And again, not everything willgo right. In fact, it's quite
the opposite. And we have to bewilling to continue on because
we believe, we relentlesslybelieve in what we're doing.
When opportunities arise, youhave to take them right and
sometimes it's a totallydifferent path than than you
(14:55):
expected. Actually, I've foundin leading teams, sometimes the
worst thing that happens is wethink we know it all., We're not
even open to what we don't know.
This is why, also, I love theidea of bringing
cross-functional teams aroundthe table, even if it's
something that's very specificto one group, because the less
(15:17):
people know, the more value Ithink they bring to the
conversation, sometimes. And,and I think, the same is true in
a sense of serendipity. asyou're bringing it up, we often
have things that come along,that could be opportunistic, but
sometimes you see teams saying,well, that's not what we're
doing, which is maybe OK. Youknow, focus is knowing what
(15:39):
you're not doing. But sometimesit's so opportunistic, that you
may have to change what youthought was true yesterday to be
able to kind of springboardforward. So, absolutely, I think
it's being able to just balanceall those things, weather the
storm, know that you have aplace you're headed, a
destination, but along the wayyou may encounter—whether it's
(16:01):
turbulence or smooth, smoothsailing and be able to
capitalize on certainopportunities and weather the
storms. A nd that's just thereality of the work we need to
do.
(16:23):
You're coming across one of thethings that, actually, I find
most energizing about being aleader, and is one of my biggest
areas I feel like it's importantto lead teams— is when people
don't even think something ispossible, and rallying them
together. Inspiring thatgreatness is the most rewarding
(16:44):
role as a leader. When you seepeople go from extreme doubt, to
believing something's possible,to the light goes off in their
head, and they're fighting forit every step of the way. And
I've seen that along my career.
And it is so rewarding, not onlyfor the ultimate outcome, which
can, again, hopefully make adifference in a person's life,
but also just from the personalgrowth that you see. And the
(17:04):
excitement and inspiration thatyou see the team, themselves, go
along. And so, I think some ofthe best pivots come from those
opportunities. But again, oftenyou have to break through that
clutter of people like, No, no,no, no, that's not the plan, or
no, no, that's not possible..
(17:25):
And if you could break throughthat clutter, as a leader, is
really so rewarding.
John Simboli (17:32):
In order to do that, is there an aspect of
visualizing? Do you findsometimes that you can help
someone on a team picturesomething they haven't pictured
before? Or is that their job topicture that?
Lisa Deschamps (17:45):
Oh, no, I definitely think it's my job to
help them picture that. Not tofully picture it for them, but
to help facilitate thevisualization, as you say, of
that. I do think it depends onthe team. I've been in
situations in the past wheremaybe you have a highly
analytical group. And so, thenumbers may not add up to
(18:08):
thinking this is could be areality, so you have to tailor
your style to, sometimes, usingexamples where quantitative
answers are not going to help usget there. And other times, it
could just be a story or ananalog or something like that.
And sometimes, you may have tobe even a bit more directive:
(18:33):
this is the expectation, so goand find a way to do it, and
then send them off. And thestress that you can see on
people's face, but then you seethat transition where they come
back, maybe it's not the firsttime, the second time, but the
third time where they themselvesnow believe, like they found an
opportunity, and they get soenergized by going on that path.
(18:53):
And again, I think that's trulywhen you can achieve greatness
and extraordinary thingstogether, is in those moments.
John Simboli (19:01):
Let me ask one more question about the getting
to know Lisa part, and thenwe'll talk a little bit about
getting to know AviadoBio. Canyou recall when you were a young
person, maybe eight or nine or10, or whatever is the
appropriate age and you'retrying to picture, I know my
parents would like me to be thiswhen I grew up. Was there
anything you can recallthrilling you or making you
(19:21):
think, Ah, this is somethingthat gets a hold of me? And if
so, if you can remember that,does that have anything to do
with your professional life?
Lisa Deschamps (19:30):
I did used to want to be a journalist, kind of
an investigative reporter. I'mvery inquisitive. And I think
the foundation of who I am is toask tons of questions. My team
will, for sure tell you that.
Maybe I wouldn't have thought ofthat to here, but maybe in the
(19:50):
in the transition, thefactfinding nature and
inquisitive nature of a childwho wants to know it all or to
find the answers, in a sense,does, of course, nicely
translate to science. And thehypothesis of me trying to find
the answers and prove them.
(20:14):
Later on I had other interests,I was very interested in fashion
and other things.. So my owncareer has taken some twists and
turns, of where I thought Iwould go to pivoting to where I
ended up. And I'm forevergrateful, because I don't think
I could have found a morerewarding field to be in and
certainly career where you canactually touch so many people's
(20:36):
lives. But it didn't start outin that. But I do think the
inquisitive nature is veryrelevant.
John Simboli (20:44):
When you were at Novartis, did you find
experiences along the way therewhere you got close to seeing
what patients and families weredealing with that also directed
where you want to go with yourprofessional life?
Lisa Deschamps (20:56):
Absolutely.
Novartis, is a verypatient-centric organization.
And I've had the privilege tolaunch,, prior to the gene
therapy launch, 14 otherproducts in my career, in
different capacities, as I movedthrough the organization in
different roles, of increasingresponsibility. And in every one
of those, I had the opportunityto meet patients, families,
(21:18):
advocacy groups, physicians, ofcourse, that were treating loved
ones of families. When thatcomes to life, you can never go
back, you can never do anythingelse, because it's so
contagious. And you feel like,there's such purpose in what you
do. And maybe it starts out verytransactional. But, you know,
(21:38):
shortly it transitions to reallyunderstanding the magnitude of
the work we're doing. One of thethings I tell my teams, because,
in my organization today,obviously, there's a lot of
people in the labs every dayworking on very early parts of
the discovery. So it feels farfrom them, from the patient. And
one of the things I say is,every person plays a role. So
(22:00):
whether you're looking atsomething in the very early
discovery phase, and you'reprocessing tissues, and creating
assays, or you're doing clinicaloperations and getting ready to
execute a clinical trial, ifthat person who was doing the
tissue processing and assaysdidn't do their role, we would
(22:21):
have never got to regulatoryenabling studies to then start a
clinical trial. And I constantlykind of educate people on every
role, and how every role laddersup to that end result of truly
impacting a patient. Becauseotherwise, people don't have
that connectivity. And also thatsense of purpose. And no matter
what role you play in anorganization like mine, or
(22:42):
others that I've worked in thepast, it really does ladder up
to that, and I feel veryfortunate. And certainly the
role in launching a gene therapyand meeting, in this case, kids,
and family, parents–their kidsmay not have lived past two
years old—was like nothing I hadever experienced. It was very
(23:03):
hard, emotionally, ethically,you just think about wanting to
bring so much more to so manymore families and the role that
you and your team plays in that.
You take it very seriously.
John Simboli (23:19):
Lisa, what do you say when people ask who is
AviadoBio?
Lisa Deschamps (23:23):
AviadoBio is a drug and delivery company. So
that's in its simplest form,what I say. But our mission is
to develop and delivertransformative gene therapies to
those living with neurologicalconditions. And our focus on
being able to pay that off isbeing able to deliver these
medications in a way that canmaximize therapeutic benefit for
(23:46):
a patient without any of thenegative safety baggage that can
come along with it. So we arebasically taking things that we
know a lot about, like AAV9 ormicro-RNA and changing something
big about it. So we're takingwhat we know, even things that
have regulatory paths alreadyapproved and things like that,
(24:08):
but changing the way we deliverit into the person. So in our
lead program, let's take that asan example, which is in
frontotemporal dementia, inpatients who have a specific
mutation. Basically, we aregoing directly into their brain.
So instead of delivering itsystemically like an infusion,
we're going directly into thebrain, into a part of the brain,
(24:30):
which is the thalamus that in asense is the central relay hub.
It delivers through billions ofsets and synapses to other parts
of the brain. And by doing itthis way, we can be very
targeted and efficient, givevery small doses to patients.
And hopefully, ultimately, whatwe've seen so far in three
(24:51):
different animal species isminimize any negative safety
effects. And this has been a keychallenge. In CNS disease today,
not specific to gene therapies,but in CNS overall, crossing the
blood brain barrier is verydifficult. And our body's
defense is to protect our brain.
So the the blood brain barrierdevelops when you're only a
(25:17):
couple of years old, fully, andits role is to allow nutrients
into the body, but protect fromany harmful toxicities. So any
pharmaceutical or drugtherapeutic gene therapy, etc,
will face the same challenge,which is it goes on the defense
to protect the brain. And thisis why treating CNS diseases is
so challenging. Where we feeldifferentiated from what other
(25:42):
gene therapies are doing is thatwe're going direct into the
brain through the thalamus to beable to deliver very small doses
without any of the negativesafety potential side effects.
So we're very excited. It'sbold, it's a very bold approach.
But again, we're takingsomething that we know a lot
about, which is AAV9, which hasalready an approved regulatory
(26:03):
path, etc, we know a lot of itspositives, as well as
limitations, and we're changingthe delivery approach which we
feel will get the best of both.
We'll get something that we knowa lot about therapeutically, and
we'll deliver it in a way thathas been a big challenge for
others. We are, in our leadprogram and our first program,
(26:26):
we are a gene supplementation.
So the mechanism of action isbasically taking a gene, in this
case, it's called GRN gene thatis not working or functioning
and replacing that with afunctioning copy of the gene. So
it replaces the functioning andthe the goal of the mechanism of
action, in a sense, is torestore a person's progranulin
(26:48):
levels in the body. For ahealthy individual, you have a
certain level of progranulin inyour body, which protects your
body and helps it to work,cognitively and function
normally. For someone who has afrontotemporal dementia, they
may have only about 30% of theprogranulin levels that you have
(27:09):
in your own body. The mechanismand the approach that we're
taking is to restore tthepatient's progranulin levels to
as close to normal as possible,to what a healthy individual
has. And we're doing that in away, again, with the focus on
delivery, which is a verydirect, into the brain,
approach. People who havefrontotemporal dementia have
(27:32):
their frontal and temporal areasof their brain, cortical areas
of their brain is where itstarts, it becomes a global
disease in nature as itprogresses. So we want to go
into the thalamus and not onlyhit those frontal and temporal
areas, but also have broaddistribution into the brain. So
(27:54):
as the disease progresses, itprevents it from further
progression and we can maximizethe biodistribution across the
board. So again, the mechanismis to restore progranulin levels
in a patient who hasfrontotemporal dementia to
healthy and normal levels of aperson who doesn't. And the
approach, delivery approach, todo it is to go very direct into
(28:17):
a part of the brain that we feelcan maximize the distribution
and be able to have the besttherapeutic benefit.
John Simboli (28:27):
If Aviado Bio progresses, where you hope it
will, and if the restoc rationbecomes a reality someday, how
incremental or transformational?
Where will you fall on that asyou try to picture the life life
of a particular person who's hadthe treatment?
Lisa Deschamps (28:43):
Like in all gene therapies, depending on how
early you get the patient, in aperfect world, we prove this in
patients who are symptomaticthan in patients who are not
even symptomatic, yet,pre-symptomatic. They could
still be dosed and prevent thedisease from ever starting. So
obviously, there's genetictesting and all the things that
(29:07):
would need to go along with it.
But if you think about that, youcould eradicate disease, in a
sense, if you can get it beforeit even starts. So that's the
big picture, prize at the end ofthe day. But also, it's not just
specific to this program infrontotemporal dementia, if we
could truly solve the deliverychallenges that are seen in
(29:28):
neurological conditions todayand are preventing progress in
neurological conditions today,the utility of that is so much
even broader than frontotemporaldementia.
John Simboli (29:43):
So let me talk about this from an investor
viewpoint for a moment I canpicture and have witnessed
presentations where the CEOdescribes a bit of what you're
describing and then a certainpercentage of the people say,
I'm interested, let's talk more.
A certain percentage say, Oh, Iunderstand, just not a good
match. And then there's theinteresting group, somewhere in
(30:03):
there, that says, Oh, I think Iunderstand it. And then you
realize, by the nature of theirquestions, they've heard
something different than whatyou've intended. They filtered
out something or they've,there's something else going on.
When that happens, is there anykind of pattern? I know that it
may be too early to know this?
But is there a pattern wherepeople say, Oh, I think I see
what you're doing, Lisa? Andthen you say, well, actually,
(30:25):
we're doing this, let me helpyou understand what we're really
doing.
Lisa Deschamps (30:28):
One of the most common times that that happens
is we have competitors in thespace. progranulin is a big area
of interest, not only infrontotemporal dementia, but
could be broadly inneurodegenerative disease. And
so, when people hear, okay, wehave a program, focused on
restoring progranulin levels andunderstand the role progranulin
plays, sometimes they lose thatwe're delivering it in a very
(30:52):
different way, piece of it. Andso they'll kind of lump
everything together. Okay, yeah,I get it. It's a competitive
space, there's others doing it,Why should we care about what
you're doing, versus what othersare doing, or is everyone just
the same? How will you know,even, that the way you're
delivering it has adifferentiating benefit, and
even potentially a higherprobability of success versus
(31:13):
the others. And that's when wehave to pause and almost rewind
again and say, OK, let's talkabout our delivery approach and
why we feel it's different. Andin fact, we've even looked at
other constructs and deliveringit in similar ways to others.
And we firsthand can tell you,it may not work or it may not
deliver the best benefit forpatients in the safest way
(31:34):
possible. And so, we have toreally hone in on that, because
the way we are going about ourfocus, the way we are going
about our pipeline in general,not only from the lead program,
but all the way through, iseverything has that hyper-focus
on delivery, and overcoming thatkey challenge, whether it's in
the brain for blood brainbarrier for diseases that are
(31:55):
more, cortical in nature, or inthe spinal cord and diseases
that have more spinal cordinvolvement. So that is really
the essence of whatdifferentiates us as a company.
And if an investor or astakeholder misses that we must
go back, and I don't want to saycorrect, but re-educate on on
(32:15):
the core essence.
John Simboli (32:17):
How does the pipeline of AviadoBio express
your vision for the company?
Lisa Deschamps (32:21):
it's very much focused on being able to
overcome some of the biggestchallenges in neurological
conditions today and forms ofdementia. So in FTD, I don't
even know if you know this, butit's the most common form of
dementia in patients under theage of 60. So it hits people so
young. So part of this is aneducational piece and getting
(32:42):
people to realize. I mean, youprobably have seen Bruce Willis,
unfortunately, his recentdiagnosis is in frontotemporal
dimension, probably most peoplehave never even heard of that.
And then our pipeline,currently, the rest of the other
four programs that we have indevelopment, a little bit
earlier in the discovery phase,are in ALS. And we all know ALS
is another huge area of unmetneed. And while there's some
(33:06):
potential new therapies coming,they're still not going to be as
transformative as a gene therapycan be, truly with a one time
administration, hopefullyprovide a lifelong benefit. Of
course, we have to prove allthose things. But we believe in
ALS, just as well as infrontotemporal dementia, the
best opportunity a patient canhave will be to deliver it in a
(33:29):
very different way. And so inour pipeline programs, we are
taking another bold deliveryapproach, which is called
sub-pial. Basically, we'velicensed exclusively in across
all CNS disease, in genetherapy, from a company called
Neurgain, in California, asub-pial delivery platform,
(33:51):
let's call it, which includesthe approach as well as the
actual delivery technology toenable that delivery. And so,
for diseases like ALS, where itgoes right into the spinal cord,
we believe we can have truly atransformative and
differentiating effect, and noone else is doing that in ALS
today.
John Simboli (34:11):
What kind of partners are a good fit to
AviadoBio?
Lisa Deschamps (34:14):
It's kind of multidisciplinary. So, of
course, we have the academicpartnerships which are critical
to not only sometimes where theconcepts are born, as as it was
here, AviadoBio is a spin out ofProfessor Chris Shaw's lab, you
know, King's College London, sothe science was born in the
academic institution, but alsoremain to be partners in
(34:36):
executing the development as wego along. We often partner to do
some of the animal work andthings like that, as well as
explore together some otherpotential areas of innovation.
And so academia is extremelyimportant. Also, big pharma, as
they call it, is very importantto be able to potentially
(35:00):
partner whether that's today orin the future to co-develop and
or co-commercialize over overtime. And so those are key
stakeholders. And then ofcourse, and this is certainly
not in this order, but you know,the community at large. So the
patient advocacy groups,caregivers themselves,
(35:22):
clinicians who treat patients. Imean, these are other important
partnerships. We need to beinformed and guided by what we
hear from the community andwhere the needs are, and how we
can best tailor our programs tomeet those needs. And in
addition to that, even otherbiotech startups or companies
(35:44):
who you could say arecompetitors, in a sense, but we
actually are all small together,but we create a large force as
one. And so we need to learn tocollaborate. And we often do
that. I talk to many other peerCEOs, where we're collaborating
or taking learnings and sharingthem. Because at the end of the
(36:04):
day, we can only really advanceour cause and our mission
together if we if we share andcollaborate and learn from one
another, and at times, work evenmore directly with each other.
John Simboli (36:16):
As you look towards the future of where
biopharma is going, and wherewhat you can contribute, and
what AviadoBio can contribute,are there any particular areas
of it that catch your attentionthat make you think this is
where I can fit in, where I canreally contribute, where I want
to contribute?
Lisa Deschamps (36:33):
I've spent my career in being part of, in a
sense commercialized drugs andbringing pipeline to
commercialization, whether itwas 10 years before, etc. And
so, I think the opportunity thatI have, or the experience that I
have that can really help thiscompany, and hopefully the
(36:53):
industry at large, is justreally thinking about what does
that end goal look like? And howdo we really make it a reality?
Because, again, each part of thejourney plays a critical role to
get there. But you have to alsohave a vision about what that
destination looks like. And youhave to think of practically,
OK, how does every decision wemake and every step practically
(37:15):
ladder up to making that areality. I'll give you an
example, bringing geneticmedicines to patients is
something that there's lots ofpeople rallied around doing
right now. And we truly all knowthat if we can, in diseases that
are monogenic, and that mutationis known, and you can truly
address the root cause of thedisease, you can have a major
(37:37):
preventative and transformativeimpact, and potentially even the
opportunity to eradicate diseaseas we were just talking about.
But what is it going to take toactually make that a reality?
Part of that is the drugs, ofcourse, and the clinical and
regulatory path they will face.
But the other part of that iseverything else that needs to be
enabled to make that a realityfor patients. And sometimes
(37:59):
those things get lost in thescience focus and the regulatory
focus. And, again, each part ofit is so important. And so as I
think about genetic medicines,and having launched a genetic
medicine, gene therapy prior,you know, all the other stuff
becomes a huge reality, once thescience part is is finished,,
(38:20):
and the regulatory part. And ifyou hadn't planned for it along
the journey, you won't besuccessful, and patients won't
get the therapy. And so thingslike implementing genetic
testing, and if you think aboutin the disease areas that we're
focused on, they're affectingpeople older in life. And so, as
part of our normal routine careas healthy individuals today,
(38:41):
we're not getting normalcognitive tests. We may get
mammograms or colonoscopies orother things that we have been
established now for decades. Butwhen you think about dementia,
or ALS, or some of these otherneurological conditions, unless
you have symptoms, or there's agenetic known defect in your
(39:01):
family, you're not gettinganything proactively by your
physician. I'm obsessed aboutthis. So if you think about
this, how do we make sure thatwith all of those companies like
ours, developing gene therapies,cell and gene therapies, how do
we make sure that at the end ofthe day, people can really
benefit from them? 1ot just thepeople who are already
(39:23):
symptomatic, where the magnitudeof benefit will be important,
but not as great as it could befor those that aren't even
symptomatic yet or don't evenknow that they may have this
potential issue. So that's whereI feel like, from my very
executional experience inlaunching therapies, I can bring
that value to think about, OK,what needs to be true for the
(39:45):
future that assuming success ofthese programs at large, what
would need to be true to ensurewe could have the greatest
potential impact as possible forpatients?
John Simboli (39:58):
What you're talking about is a pragmatic
possibility for something on ahuge scale. How do you move
forward without getting stuck,immmobilized?
Lisa Deschamps (40:08):
It's a great question. And it's one that the
answer will evolve, as you say,over time. But it goes back to
the to the comment you madeearlier around the importance of
partnerships. This will takepartnerships, there's no
question about it, it will takepartnership with the community,
it will take partnerships acrossthe industry. And we can't see
(40:31):
ourselves as competitors, here,we have to see ourselves as all
working together for the commongood. And it will take, I always
say, it takes a village to dothese things. And ther's
village, usually, surroundingjust one particular patient,
because that's what it takes.
And so it will requirepartnerships, it will require
passion and perseverance. You'rechanging, potentially, policy in
(40:54):
the future to enable thesethings to happen. Having had the
experience with Zolgensma, wedid a lot of that, but it takes
time effort, and it takes thatvision, and then it takes the
collaboration across thecommunity. As gene therapies
become more of the standard ofcare, versus the one-offs
policy, will need to change.
(41:17):
Policy as it relates to when apatient turns maybe 40 years
old, what is normal practice forassessing some of these things
that might be related to CNS orneurological conditions overall.
They're not currently part ofmedical practice, proactively.
They're more reactive, if youwill. So we'll need to shift
(41:38):
from reactive to proactive insome of these areas where now we
do have treatments for and weshould be looking. In addition,
policy will play a role incollaboration and partnerships.
So policy makers, you have tounderstand, with anywith any
stakeholder, you have tounderstand what's important for
them. So as it relates topolicymakers, and where is the
(42:01):
common thread and the mutualarea of interest, and certainly
will be on societal burden,health care utilization, cost,
effectiveness and all of thosethings. So you have to think
about, okay, if we were tochange policy or advocate to
change policy in any way, whywould that make sense? What
would need to be true for eachof the individual stakeholders,
(42:24):
the policymaker, the physician,the caregivers, all of us at
large, because finding themutual interest, and then
finding what's important to eachstakeholder and how that can pay
off is critical. To bring peopletogether to make something which
seems so far off and so big,almost intangible. But to be
able to break it up into smallbits and make it angible enough
(42:48):
to become a reality takes takesvision, takes understanding
what's important to eachstakeholder and certainly takes
bringing people around the tabletogether to align on the common
area of interest. And then Itruly believe we can get there,
but it will take effort,planning and real thought around
it. But you do it because thethe the possibility is so great.
(43:12):
We're providing possibilitieswhere there may not have been
any in the past and I couldn'tthink of a greater inspiration
than that.
John Simboli (43:22):
Lisa, thanks for speaking with me today. I
enjoyed our conversation.
Lisa Deschamps (43:26):
Thank you, John.
It has been such a pleasure.
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