September 25, 2023 • 18 mins
Aaron Ryder, Producer of Dumb Money, discusses the movie about the GameStop phenomenon that led to meme stock mania.
Hosts: Carol Massar and Jess Menton. Producer: Paul Brennan.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim
Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Yeow it up, everybody, rowing kiddy here, I'm going to
pick a stock and talk about why I think it's interesting,
and that stock is Game Stop.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Retail traders have hooked into the Game Stop. I think
they think it's a good investment.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It looks like there's one guy driving all the buying.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
Who is.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
All right?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, art imitating life once again this week, opening nationally today,
Dumb Money, the real life story brought to the big
screen of the working class redditors who became investors during
the pandemic making and I'm guess I'm losing some money
along the way as well, and perhaps even more interestingly
and shockingly, turning Wall.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Street upside down. Jess.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We were living this day to day as it played
out during the pandemic, especially when.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
You think of GME for GameStop, AMC, all these names
that come to mind, that we're just taking off in
the beginning of twenty one, right.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Out of nowhere, and like it was like we gone
here fundamentals. Who cares out the window?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
All right, So let's get to it. Because Aaron Ryder
is producer of Dumb Money. As we said, this movie
opening nationally today. He joins us on Zoom in Los Angeles,
aeron No Stranger to the Big Screen.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Among other things.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
He of course did producer Christopher Nolan's Memento, so really
good to have him here.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Welcome, Welcome erin big day, big movie.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
We all lived it, So we've all been talking about
a big time in the newsroom. Looking at your trailer,
there's a word in it that we sometimes say in
the newsroom, but it was said a lot in the
trailer because it was a crazy time. What was the
spark catalyst, media headline conversation that got your attention, made
you want to do a movie about this?
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Well, first off, thanks for having me. Good to talk
to you guys. So I was in Montreal up in
quarantine when this was all going down in January twenty
twenty one. Back then it was before the vaccines, as
you probably remember, and when you went from the United
States to Canada you had to do a fourteen day
state mandated quarantine. So I was pretty much glued to
(02:05):
the internet just hearing all these headlines and seeing everything
that was going down, and I could not escape all
of this news about the store that I kind of
knew about when you go to the mall and why
it's stock was going through the roof, and it was
you know, you guys were covering it. It was everywhere,
and so it was hard to ignore it.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So how do you take something that right? It was
in our face and all of us were trying to
make sense of it. So how do you say, Wow,
that's really interesting and it's a conversation with your buddies,
versus I want to do something more with it, so
take us there.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Well, I got this great phone call from a guy
named Kevin Lark, who happened to own the studio that
I have a deal with or how to deal with
at the time, and he basically was like, look, I
think there's a movie here. And the amazing thing about this,
you know, not just because it was in the headlines.
Not every headline will make a great movie, but there
was this great David versus Goliath theme woven throughout this.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
And you know, it.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
Wasn't just me or Kevin or anyone else that thought
there could be a movie here. Half of Hollywood was
chasing the story, thinking that it could be a great
idea for film, and so it became a real race
to try to get the rights to a book or
a podcast to serve as the basis for that story.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
You also, from what I understand, track down Ben Mezrich's
book Dumb Money Adventures of a Day Trader, which is
what the film is based on.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So I'm just get us there, like, how did that?
Did you reach out or no?
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Ben?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
It was kind of an amazing moment.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
You know, I'd heard this rumor that Ben who had
written you know, he's covered so many of these things
in his career. He has written books on so many
great topics that've been turned into great movies, including Social Network,
And so I heard that Ben had a book proposal
and everyone was after it. So I kind of found
my way into the heart of his agent and convinced
him to get me a copy of the seven page
(03:56):
book proposal that he was currently writing on the on
the Phinalen and that we were all watching. So I
heard about it, and you know, and did what us
producers do. We chased material and good ideas and and
got this book proposal, and you know, it was all
kind of there. You could feel how you could easily
turn the story into a narrative for a film that
(04:16):
would capture an audience. So that was getting that thing
and working with Ben who could not have been a
better you know, architect of a story like this.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
You know, thank you Wall Street.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Right, it just kind of continues to give and give,
whether it's the Great Financial Crisis, whether it's tech bubbles,
whether it's the creation of some incredible companies. Like there's
just unbelievable stories. Having said that, like when you look
at something like what happened during this meme stock Eras,
there's a lot of stories in it. There's, you know,
just the trading element. There's the individuals who were involved
who were not the normal people Aaron that we here
(04:50):
at Bloomberg typically write about.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
No, it was your one hundred percent right.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
It was like in this moment, as we were all
trapped in our homes, maybe with a little bit more
money from the stimulus check that you got, and we
were glued to you know, we did not have the
connectivity to our friends or a family, we began to
form communities online and I feel like this moment was
like the moment that Wall Street was gamified and some
and in some ways democratized, where people that normally hadn't
(05:18):
been investing on Wall Street and paying attention to these
sort of things, they gathered around this movement and an
army gathered, and I feel like this was the first
time that we saw that, and Wall Street felt the
impact of that, that army that gathered.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
How did you think about, like, what the stories you
wanted to tell specifically, right, because it's really fun to
look at the trailer and I was thinking about you know,
Ken Griffin and you know others that are certainly individuals
that we talk about all the time here, Steve Cohen,
Gabe Plotkin.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So there's you know, the establishment side of it.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Then there's the redditors in terms of you know, these people,
their worlds.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Were changing dramatically just.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
As you approach this project, What were the stories you
wanted to make sure you got out there?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Well, it's a great question.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
You know, we really wanted to make this movie about
it for those people that were on the Reddit boards,
the people that were involved in this and got involved,
And you.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Know, it starts with Keith Gill Roaring Kitty.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
He was in large part the face of this movement
and the person that we all kind of identified with
the game stuff phenomena, so you knew he had to
be a you know, the focal point of a lot
of the story and any very much he is. I mean,
that's where it all kind of started. So and then
it was really Ben's book and the research that he did,
(06:40):
and Lauren and Rebecca are two screenwriters who were able
to kind of do a bunch of research and find
these real people who went through this experience, and there's
so many The hard part was was kind of discerning
the people that were involved with us and finding there's
really great stories that had a satisfying ending to him
or had a little bit of tragedy to him, with
(07:00):
the things that would make a good movie. You know,
we weren't making a documentary here. What we're trying to
do is make something that's that shows this moment in
time that we all lived through. But it was actually
really a fun moment because we'd never seen anything like
this before.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I'm curious who you talked to? I remember talking to
Oliver Stone about Wall Street and then.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
The sequel of like who did You talk To?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
To get the feel in the same thing with Billions,
Like we've done a panel here at Bloomberg and the
guys like who did you because they really did talk to,
you know, folks on Wall Street really to kind of
get the feel and make sure.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
They were accurate. Who did you talk to in making this?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Well? You know, look, there's so much stuff that's out
there that true right now.
Speaker 5 (07:35):
Yeah, there's so much stuff that you can learn and
there's so many things in the headlines because everybody was
talking about this, and when you go see the movie,
it's a very easy.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Film to understand.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
You do not have to be an investor in Wall
Street to understand this movie, nor do you have to
be some sort of economics major to understand what was
going on here. It's a movie for the everyman, and
that's really important in the construction of it. We didn't
want to be, you know, weighing this down with your
arguing about you know, the economy or jargon about like
investing in that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
We're trying to make it for and every man.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
So we took that approach, and so in our research
it was really focusing on the everyday people and how
they look at the at investing and how they look
at the stock market and how they maybe even see
that the system made very well.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Be ripped, Aaron.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I was wondering when you were, you know, certainly reading
the headlines like the rest of us.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Did you did you trade in any of these?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Did you actually participate in any of this in terms
of the market trade.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
It's really funny actually, because.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I had You're going to say, yes, aren't you.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
Yeah, Yeah, I totally am. You know, I actually got
my Robinhood account. I wanted to understand how it worked
and how it operated, so I got involved with Robinhood,
and I wanted to see how people were doing it,
so I very much participated. I got involved with that,
and I started buy a couple of shares here and there,
just kind of see how the everyman was going about it.
And I needed to understand how the apparatus worked as well.
(08:57):
So yeah, I got I got deep in it, and
and I think there's no other way to read the
understand it unless you're doing.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, I totally agree. Did you make money in the process.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I can't. I don't even tell you how much money
I lost.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Well, and that's part of it.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
What's really kind of wild, though, these individuals who started
to be honest with you, like I just remember on
a day when we'd have to like highlight a stock
and it obviously we're going to highlight these because they
were moving in such a dramatic way in a market
where you know, these were names and individuals who were
shaping the overall trade.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
It was pretty phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Aaron, don't go anywhere, because I'm curious about the actors
that were lined up and just as the movie progressed,
just what you were kind of feeling and the feedback
you were getting. And I'm also curious about the real
life Steve Cohen's or Gaye Plotkins or Ken Griffin, if
you've heard from any of them. So hang on, we're
going to come back to you in just a moment.
We're going to continue with Aaron Ryder, producer of Dumb Money,
(09:53):
on Zoom from Los Angeles. I have to say, Jess,
I haven't seen the movie yet either have I, But
but I was thinking about, like you were here right
with all of our Wall Street team and.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Reporting on things, and it was just kind of crazy.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
It really was wild, and you couldn't stop following it,
and obviously as a reporter I had to, but I
mean I couldn't take my eyes off of it, even
when I was not reporting on it.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And then there was a reckoning because the regulators got involved.
So we're going to come back to Aaron Ryder in
just a moment, the producer of Dub Money.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Delight to still have with us. Aaron Ryder, producer of.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Dub Money on Zoom and Los Angeles, the movie opening
up nationally on this Friday, Aaron. How easy was it
to make this movie in terms of financially getting the funding?
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Well, you know, no movie is ever easy to make.
It's a bit of a miracle when we actually pull
it off. This one, it was a little bit complicated.
We started out with it. I had to deal with
the studio MGM, and we started to make the movie
with them. But somewhere along the way about in pre production,
MGM had sold themselves to Amazon, and that's when things
(10:57):
got a bit more complicated. Let's say, just because you know,
you have this brand new giant entity that takes over
a movie studio and everything kind of slowed down. So
we were not able to move forward under that that
sort of deal that we had made. So we went
out and found ourselves independent financiers, and we found an
(11:18):
excellent partner with a company called Black Bear, and Teddy
Schwartzman came on as our partner and we made the
film together. So it started out as a studio movie,
ended up independent, and then we found a home with
a studio with Sony, So that's how it came together.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I have to jump in because if Schwartzman sounds familiar
to our audience, which it certainly does, Steve Schwartzman, of course,
is his father, Steve Schwartzman.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I've talked to him.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
He's the co founder, our founder, i should say, a Blackstone,
the private equity giant. So it's kind of interesting to
have that funding behind this film and a film that
also kind of makes a little fun of right the
hedge fund dudes, I mean they really, you know, kind
of really were caught off guard during this whole you
(12:03):
know process, if you will, of the meme stock craze.
A lot of them are you know, shorting some of
these names, and it really was uncomfortable for them. I'm
curious about how you thought about their portrayal in the movie.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
Well, you know, look, these are real people. Obviously, we
did a really good job at trying to tell the
truth here and Our job is first and foremost to
make a really compelling and entertaining movie, and just so
happens that the subject matter made it very easy for
us to be able to do that. So you know,
we weren't out to try to overly uilify anybody. It
(12:40):
was just to tell an honest story of what happened
in this one particular.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Moment in time.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Well exactly. Talk to us too about the actors.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
The lineup is pretty amazing, Paul, Pete Davidson, Yeah, talk
to us about this cast.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Sure, sure.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
I mean, look, it all started with Paul Dano because
we you know, the face of this movement, as we
said before, is Keith Gill, and who's going to play that.
He's iconic now, and so Paul is somebody that both
Craig and I really had been trying to find something
to do with. He's just an exceptional actor and he
just embodies Keith feel to such a degree. He's got
(13:15):
this great sense of humor and energy to him. And
I think you'll see Paul in the way you've never
seen him before. And as far as the rest of
the cast goes, it's an embarrassment of riches to be
honest with you. We have such a great lineup, mostly
people that have been friends myself or Craig have worked
with in the past, you know, between Seth Rogan and
Nick Offerman, Pete Davidson, Shaling Woodley, it's kind of a
(13:41):
remarkable ensemble and one I'm really proud of in a
testament to the fact that I think everybody knew this
story in one way or another wanted to get involved.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Is it a little frustrating with the Hollywood Actors strike
that this incredible line up of actors can't be out
there talking about the movie.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
A little frustrating, might ont.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Sorry, Yeah, it's it is.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
It's it's unfortunate. But we feel like this moment is
the moment for this movie. Given what's going on in
the country, the division we have, the fact that we
all live through this, it just feels like this is
the right kind of movement and right kind of moment
for a film like this, you know, And I think
it's reflected in the strikes that we're seeing all throughout
the country, not just in in my in my line
(14:30):
of work with the actors and the writers going a.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Strike, but the you know, the auto workers and everyone else.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
There's a lot of disparity out there, and I feel
like this movie does a good job of of of
highlighting that. So we've felt like now's the time to
show this to the world. And yes, it's disappointing not
to have actors there because we went through the journey
with them, and it's always a lot of fun to
go out and promote a movie. But it's still it
seems to be generating a lot of interest. I like
(14:56):
to think that, you know, what do we need the
actors for?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Right out?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Your phone's ringing, Aaron, No, it's interesting. Well, the Times
I thought said it really well too. They said, you know,
your movie about a populist uprising, right, these you know,
kind of small retail investors. These guys just kind of
doing their thing on Reddit and elsewhere and really kind
of bringing down the establishment in terms of the trading environment.
And you think about these hedge fund titans, like it's
(15:21):
pretty remarkable. But you as you say, like, we also
are seeing workers really step out and speak up for
their own rights. In terms of Hollywood, what is it
that you know? I think about our audience, a smart
audience so needs to understand about what's really happening there
at those picket lines in a world where we're talking
a lot about, you know, the next level of artificial
(15:42):
intelligence and what kind of jobs that takes out and
what it means for the creative world.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I think it's you know, we look, we.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
Reached the moment, an inflection point, if you will, And
most industries go through. The entertainment industry certainly has its
moments as well. It happened back in the early sixties
when actors went on strikes about residuals and that sort
of thing as television became more and more prominent, And
we're in that moment right now, and it's in a
large part it was probably going to happen a couple
of years ago, but the pandemic disruptive things, and so
(16:14):
this was a moment that was bound to happen with this,
you know, the proliferation of streamers and that sort of
thing changing our business dramatically, which it has.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
And so with that sort of.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Change comes to recalibration of how people are patent and
what fair wages mean, and so, you know, not just
in this industry, but I think in multiple industries across
this country. So we're in that moment right now and
we're all feeling and I hope it things settle sooner
than later and we find that common ground affairness, so
(16:45):
everybody can get back to work.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You just have about a minute and a half left here.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Is there for a favorite moment of yours in terms
of making the movie or you know the process.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I know it's hard for you to be.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Like, yeah, it's my favorites, my baby or my latest baby.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
But is there you know, take as a little bit
behind the scenes.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
It's two things, you know, Like it's hard, as we said,
it's hard making the film and pulling all these elements together,
and it takes a lot of energy and certainly a
lot of money, and you have to hope that the
movie gods smile upon you.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
But for me, it's always two moments in any given film.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
It's the moment when you pull a whole thing together
on the first day of photography, and I think about
it all the way to the first moment made up
until now, and when you're standing behind the director and
you got the whole everybody ready to go, and the
director kind of says action to me, It's like, I
feel like a moment of triumph in that moment, thinking Okay,
well this is happening now and this story will be indelible.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Those kind of moments are never lost to me. The
second part is when you show your film for the.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
First time in front of a large audience, like we
had the opportunity to do in Toronto, and have an
audience received the film the way it did, with a
standing ovation the way we had, and just see how
people really enjoyed the film.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
There's nothing more rewarding.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Well, we're looking forward to see it. I have to
say I haven't seen it yet, but I will. I
certainly lived it reporting on it. So fascinating to see
the interpretation that you guys did, because it really was
a remarkable moment in time for anybody who's been watching
financial markets.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Another remarkable moment in time. And good to see you
guys put it to the big screen.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Aaron, good luck with it. Aaron Ryder, producer of dub Money.
As we said, opening nationally on the big screen this
Friday today, so check it out.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
He's joining us, of course on zoom in Los Angeles,
This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim
Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Yeow it up, everybody, rowing kiddy here, I'm going to
pick a stock and talk about why I think it's interesting,
and that stock is Game Stop.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Retail traders have hooked into the Game Stop. I think
they think it's a good investment.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It looks like there's one guy driving all the buying.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
Who is.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
All right?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, art imitating life once again this week, opening nationally today,
Dumb Money, the real life story brought to the big
screen of the working class redditors who became investors during
the pandemic making and I'm guess I'm losing some money
along the way as well, and perhaps even more interestingly
and shockingly, turning Wall.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Street upside down. Jess.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We were living this day to day as it played
out during the pandemic, especially when.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
You think of GME for GameStop, AMC, all these names
that come to mind, that we're just taking off in
the beginning of twenty one, right.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Out of nowhere, and like it was like we gone
here fundamentals. Who cares out the window?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
All right, So let's get to it. Because Aaron Ryder
is producer of Dumb Money. As we said, this movie
opening nationally today. He joins us on Zoom in Los Angeles,
aeron No Stranger to the Big Screen.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Among other things.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
He of course did producer Christopher Nolan's Memento, so really
good to have him here.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Welcome, Welcome erin big day, big movie.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
We all lived it, So we've all been talking about
a big time in the newsroom. Looking at your trailer,
there's a word in it that we sometimes say in
the newsroom, but it was said a lot in the
trailer because it was a crazy time. What was the
spark catalyst, media headline conversation that got your attention, made
you want to do a movie about this?
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Well, first off, thanks for having me. Good to talk
to you guys. So I was in Montreal up in
quarantine when this was all going down in January twenty
twenty one. Back then it was before the vaccines, as
you probably remember, and when you went from the United
States to Canada you had to do a fourteen day
state mandated quarantine. So I was pretty much glued to
(02:05):
the internet just hearing all these headlines and seeing everything
that was going down, and I could not escape all
of this news about the store that I kind of
knew about when you go to the mall and why
it's stock was going through the roof, and it was
you know, you guys were covering it. It was everywhere,
and so it was hard to ignore it.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So how do you take something that right? It was
in our face and all of us were trying to
make sense of it. So how do you say, Wow,
that's really interesting and it's a conversation with your buddies,
versus I want to do something more with it, so
take us there.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Well, I got this great phone call from a guy
named Kevin Lark, who happened to own the studio that
I have a deal with or how to deal with
at the time, and he basically was like, look, I
think there's a movie here. And the amazing thing about this,
you know, not just because it was in the headlines.
Not every headline will make a great movie, but there
was this great David versus Goliath theme woven throughout this.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
And you know, it.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
Wasn't just me or Kevin or anyone else that thought
there could be a movie here. Half of Hollywood was
chasing the story, thinking that it could be a great
idea for film, and so it became a real race
to try to get the rights to a book or
a podcast to serve as the basis for that story.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
You also, from what I understand, track down Ben Mezrich's
book Dumb Money Adventures of a Day Trader, which is
what the film is based on.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So I'm just get us there, like, how did that?
Did you reach out or no?
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Ben?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
It was kind of an amazing moment.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
You know, I'd heard this rumor that Ben who had
written you know, he's covered so many of these things
in his career. He has written books on so many
great topics that've been turned into great movies, including Social Network,
And so I heard that Ben had a book proposal
and everyone was after it. So I kind of found
my way into the heart of his agent and convinced
him to get me a copy of the seven page
(03:56):
book proposal that he was currently writing on the on
the Phinalen and that we were all watching. So I
heard about it, and you know, and did what us
producers do. We chased material and good ideas and and
got this book proposal, and you know, it was all
kind of there. You could feel how you could easily
turn the story into a narrative for a film that
(04:16):
would capture an audience. So that was getting that thing
and working with Ben who could not have been a
better you know, architect of a story like this.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
You know, thank you Wall Street.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Right, it just kind of continues to give and give,
whether it's the Great Financial Crisis, whether it's tech bubbles,
whether it's the creation of some incredible companies. Like there's
just unbelievable stories. Having said that, like when you look
at something like what happened during this meme stock Eras,
there's a lot of stories in it. There's, you know,
just the trading element. There's the individuals who were involved
who were not the normal people Aaron that we here
(04:50):
at Bloomberg typically write about.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
No, it was your one hundred percent right.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
It was like in this moment, as we were all
trapped in our homes, maybe with a little bit more
money from the stimulus check that you got, and we
were glued to you know, we did not have the
connectivity to our friends or a family, we began to
form communities online and I feel like this moment was
like the moment that Wall Street was gamified and some
and in some ways democratized, where people that normally hadn't
(05:18):
been investing on Wall Street and paying attention to these
sort of things, they gathered around this movement and an
army gathered, and I feel like this was the first
time that we saw that, and Wall Street felt the
impact of that, that army that gathered.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
How did you think about, like, what the stories you
wanted to tell specifically, right, because it's really fun to
look at the trailer and I was thinking about you know,
Ken Griffin and you know others that are certainly individuals
that we talk about all the time here, Steve Cohen,
Gabe Plotkin.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So there's you know, the establishment side of it.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Then there's the redditors in terms of you know, these people,
their worlds.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Were changing dramatically just.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
As you approach this project, What were the stories you
wanted to make sure you got out there?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Well, it's a great question.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
You know, we really wanted to make this movie about
it for those people that were on the Reddit boards,
the people that were involved in this and got involved,
And you.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Know, it starts with Keith Gill Roaring Kitty.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
He was in large part the face of this movement
and the person that we all kind of identified with
the game stuff phenomena, so you knew he had to
be a you know, the focal point of a lot
of the story and any very much he is. I mean,
that's where it all kind of started. So and then
it was really Ben's book and the research that he did,
(06:40):
and Lauren and Rebecca are two screenwriters who were able
to kind of do a bunch of research and find
these real people who went through this experience, and there's
so many The hard part was was kind of discerning
the people that were involved with us and finding there's
really great stories that had a satisfying ending to him
or had a little bit of tragedy to him, with
(07:00):
the things that would make a good movie. You know,
we weren't making a documentary here. What we're trying to
do is make something that's that shows this moment in
time that we all lived through. But it was actually
really a fun moment because we'd never seen anything like
this before.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I'm curious who you talked to? I remember talking to
Oliver Stone about Wall Street and then.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
The sequel of like who did You talk To?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
To get the feel in the same thing with Billions,
Like we've done a panel here at Bloomberg and the
guys like who did you because they really did talk to,
you know, folks on Wall Street really to kind of
get the feel and make sure.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
They were accurate. Who did you talk to in making this?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Well? You know, look, there's so much stuff that's out
there that true right now.
Speaker 5 (07:35):
Yeah, there's so much stuff that you can learn and
there's so many things in the headlines because everybody was
talking about this, and when you go see the movie,
it's a very easy.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Film to understand.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
You do not have to be an investor in Wall
Street to understand this movie, nor do you have to
be some sort of economics major to understand what was
going on here. It's a movie for the everyman, and
that's really important in the construction of it. We didn't
want to be, you know, weighing this down with your
arguing about you know, the economy or jargon about like
investing in that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
We're trying to make it for and every man.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
So we took that approach, and so in our research
it was really focusing on the everyday people and how
they look at the at investing and how they look
at the stock market and how they maybe even see
that the system made very well.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Be ripped, Aaron.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I was wondering when you were, you know, certainly reading
the headlines like the rest of us.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Did you did you trade in any of these?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Did you actually participate in any of this in terms
of the market trade.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
It's really funny actually, because.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I had You're going to say, yes, aren't you.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
Yeah, Yeah, I totally am. You know, I actually got
my Robinhood account. I wanted to understand how it worked
and how it operated, so I got involved with Robinhood,
and I wanted to see how people were doing it,
so I very much participated. I got involved with that,
and I started buy a couple of shares here and there,
just kind of see how the everyman was going about it.
And I needed to understand how the apparatus worked as well.
(08:57):
So yeah, I got I got deep in it, and
and I think there's no other way to read the
understand it unless you're doing.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, I totally agree. Did you make money in the process.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I can't. I don't even tell you how much money
I lost.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Well, and that's part of it.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
What's really kind of wild, though, these individuals who started
to be honest with you, like I just remember on
a day when we'd have to like highlight a stock
and it obviously we're going to highlight these because they
were moving in such a dramatic way in a market
where you know, these were names and individuals who were
shaping the overall trade.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
It was pretty phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Aaron, don't go anywhere, because I'm curious about the actors
that were lined up and just as the movie progressed,
just what you were kind of feeling and the feedback
you were getting. And I'm also curious about the real
life Steve Cohen's or Gaye Plotkins or Ken Griffin, if
you've heard from any of them. So hang on, we're
going to come back to you in just a moment.
We're going to continue with Aaron Ryder, producer of Dumb Money,
(09:53):
on Zoom from Los Angeles. I have to say, Jess,
I haven't seen the movie yet either have I, But
but I was thinking about, like you were here right
with all of our Wall Street team and.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Reporting on things, and it was just kind of crazy.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
It really was wild, and you couldn't stop following it,
and obviously as a reporter I had to, but I
mean I couldn't take my eyes off of it, even
when I was not reporting on it.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And then there was a reckoning because the regulators got involved.
So we're going to come back to Aaron Ryder in
just a moment, the producer of Dub Money.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Delight to still have with us. Aaron Ryder, producer of.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Dub Money on Zoom and Los Angeles, the movie opening
up nationally on this Friday, Aaron. How easy was it
to make this movie in terms of financially getting the funding?
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Well, you know, no movie is ever easy to make.
It's a bit of a miracle when we actually pull
it off. This one, it was a little bit complicated.
We started out with it. I had to deal with
the studio MGM, and we started to make the movie
with them. But somewhere along the way about in pre production,
MGM had sold themselves to Amazon, and that's when things
(10:57):
got a bit more complicated. Let's say, just because you know,
you have this brand new giant entity that takes over
a movie studio and everything kind of slowed down. So
we were not able to move forward under that that
sort of deal that we had made. So we went
out and found ourselves independent financiers, and we found an
(11:18):
excellent partner with a company called Black Bear, and Teddy
Schwartzman came on as our partner and we made the
film together. So it started out as a studio movie,
ended up independent, and then we found a home with
a studio with Sony, So that's how it came together.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I have to jump in because if Schwartzman sounds familiar
to our audience, which it certainly does, Steve Schwartzman, of course,
is his father, Steve Schwartzman.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I've talked to him.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
He's the co founder, our founder, i should say, a Blackstone,
the private equity giant. So it's kind of interesting to
have that funding behind this film and a film that
also kind of makes a little fun of right the
hedge fund dudes, I mean they really, you know, kind
of really were caught off guard during this whole you
(12:03):
know process, if you will, of the meme stock craze.
A lot of them are you know, shorting some of
these names, and it really was uncomfortable for them. I'm
curious about how you thought about their portrayal in the movie.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
Well, you know, look, these are real people. Obviously, we
did a really good job at trying to tell the
truth here and Our job is first and foremost to
make a really compelling and entertaining movie, and just so
happens that the subject matter made it very easy for
us to be able to do that. So you know,
we weren't out to try to overly uilify anybody. It
(12:40):
was just to tell an honest story of what happened
in this one particular.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Moment in time.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Well exactly. Talk to us too about the actors.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
The lineup is pretty amazing, Paul, Pete Davidson, Yeah, talk
to us about this cast.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Sure, sure.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
I mean, look, it all started with Paul Dano because
we you know, the face of this movement, as we
said before, is Keith Gill, and who's going to play that.
He's iconic now, and so Paul is somebody that both
Craig and I really had been trying to find something
to do with. He's just an exceptional actor and he
just embodies Keith feel to such a degree. He's got
(13:15):
this great sense of humor and energy to him. And
I think you'll see Paul in the way you've never
seen him before. And as far as the rest of
the cast goes, it's an embarrassment of riches to be
honest with you. We have such a great lineup, mostly
people that have been friends myself or Craig have worked
with in the past, you know, between Seth Rogan and
Nick Offerman, Pete Davidson, Shaling Woodley, it's kind of a
(13:41):
remarkable ensemble and one I'm really proud of in a
testament to the fact that I think everybody knew this
story in one way or another wanted to get involved.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Is it a little frustrating with the Hollywood Actors strike
that this incredible line up of actors can't be out
there talking about the movie.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
A little frustrating, might ont.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Sorry, Yeah, it's it is.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
It's it's unfortunate. But we feel like this moment is
the moment for this movie. Given what's going on in
the country, the division we have, the fact that we
all live through this, it just feels like this is
the right kind of movement and right kind of moment
for a film like this, you know, And I think
it's reflected in the strikes that we're seeing all throughout
the country, not just in in my in my line
(14:30):
of work with the actors and the writers going a.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Strike, but the you know, the auto workers and everyone else.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
There's a lot of disparity out there, and I feel
like this movie does a good job of of of
highlighting that. So we've felt like now's the time to
show this to the world. And yes, it's disappointing not
to have actors there because we went through the journey
with them, and it's always a lot of fun to
go out and promote a movie. But it's still it
seems to be generating a lot of interest. I like
(14:56):
to think that, you know, what do we need the
actors for?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Right out?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Your phone's ringing, Aaron, No, it's interesting. Well, the Times
I thought said it really well too. They said, you know,
your movie about a populist uprising, right, these you know,
kind of small retail investors. These guys just kind of
doing their thing on Reddit and elsewhere and really kind
of bringing down the establishment in terms of the trading environment.
And you think about these hedge fund titans, like it's
(15:21):
pretty remarkable. But you as you say, like, we also
are seeing workers really step out and speak up for
their own rights. In terms of Hollywood, what is it
that you know? I think about our audience, a smart
audience so needs to understand about what's really happening there
at those picket lines in a world where we're talking
a lot about, you know, the next level of artificial
(15:42):
intelligence and what kind of jobs that takes out and
what it means for the creative world.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I think it's you know, we look, we.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
Reached the moment, an inflection point, if you will, And
most industries go through. The entertainment industry certainly has its
moments as well. It happened back in the early sixties
when actors went on strikes about residuals and that sort
of thing as television became more and more prominent, And
we're in that moment right now, and it's in a
large part it was probably going to happen a couple
of years ago, but the pandemic disruptive things, and so
(16:14):
this was a moment that was bound to happen with this,
you know, the proliferation of streamers and that sort of
thing changing our business dramatically, which it has.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
And so with that sort of.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Change comes to recalibration of how people are patent and
what fair wages mean, and so, you know, not just
in this industry, but I think in multiple industries across
this country. So we're in that moment right now and
we're all feeling and I hope it things settle sooner
than later and we find that common ground affairness, so
(16:45):
everybody can get back to work.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You just have about a minute and a half left here.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Is there for a favorite moment of yours in terms
of making the movie or you know the process.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I know it's hard for you to be.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Like, yeah, it's my favorites, my baby or my latest baby.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
But is there you know, take as a little bit
behind the scenes.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
It's two things, you know, Like it's hard, as we said,
it's hard making the film and pulling all these elements together,
and it takes a lot of energy and certainly a
lot of money, and you have to hope that the
movie gods smile upon you.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
But for me, it's always two moments in any given film.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
It's the moment when you pull a whole thing together
on the first day of photography, and I think about
it all the way to the first moment made up
until now, and when you're standing behind the director and
you got the whole everybody ready to go, and the
director kind of says action to me, It's like, I
feel like a moment of triumph in that moment, thinking Okay,
well this is happening now and this story will be indelible.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Those kind of moments are never lost to me. The
second part is when you show your film for the.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
First time in front of a large audience, like we
had the opportunity to do in Toronto, and have an
audience received the film the way it did, with a
standing ovation the way we had, and just see how
people really enjoyed the film.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
There's nothing more rewarding.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Well, we're looking forward to see it. I have to
say I haven't seen it yet, but I will. I
certainly lived it reporting on it. So fascinating to see
the interpretation that you guys did, because it really was
a remarkable moment in time for anybody who's been watching
financial markets.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Another remarkable moment in time. And good to see you
guys put it to the big screen.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Aaron, good luck with it. Aaron Ryder, producer of dub Money.
As we said, opening nationally on the big screen this
Friday today, so check it out.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
He's joining us, of course on zoom in Los Angeles,
Hosts And Creators
Tim Stenovec
Carol Massar
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