Networks & Audiences

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan Gal (00:16):
Welcome back, everybody. Another episode of
Bootstrap Web. It's Friday. It'sAugust 9. My brother's family
just left after being here for afew days.
I've had a weird work week,mostly not working. It's

Brian Casel (00:30):
very nice. Yeah. We're we're back at it. Super
hot over here. Super humid.
But but yeah. We're gonna getthrough it. And so what they
does your your brother have kidsand it was like the whole family
getting together?

Jordan Gal (00:44):
It was the whole fam. So, brother and his wife
and their three kids.

Full house.

Jordan Gal (00:49):
Full house and then we saw a great opportunity. So,
my dad came up from Florida. So,we we had a whole thing. It was
awesome. The city, pool, beach,restaurants, like fun stuff,
color factory, whole deal.

Oh, very cool. Actually, couple days ago, we we
went wine tasting with someextended family who came into
into town. So, yeah. Nothinglike hanging out with the fam
and getting drunk for doing someday drinking. Good time.
Yes. Today? What do we got?

Jordan Gal (01:23):
Well, we we gotta talk about Ripple because I've
seen you active on that frontand I wanna hear how things are
going.

Actually on that note, mean, why don't we just
kick it off off the top. Hey, ifyou are a fan of Bootstrap Web,
you can join the free communityfor Bootstrap Web listeners on
ripple.fm. So the the link is inthe show notes. Jordan's phone
is blown up.

Jordan Gal (01:48):
Just my daughter. My bad. No. No. Can't do it.

Hanging up on your daughter. Love it.

Brennan Dunn (01:55):
Damn it.

Yeah. So so I was actually I just went on to
Ripple just now and I see so farwe have 54 of our listeners on
Ripple. And Yeah. Like just thismorning I posted a message. I
was like, hey, what should wetalk about on Bootstrap web
today?
We've got a couple of responses.But it's it's really cool like I
So I As of as of now, Ripple istotally live and open. It's all

(02:22):
free. Actually yesterday I movedit to the root domain. So you
can just go to ripple.fm.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
I set up like like a small marketing site for it. But
the cool

thing is that right on the homepage is like a
podcast search box. So you justtype in the name of any podcast
that you're a fan of. Like likepublic podcast that you're a fan
of. You could put in BootstrapWeb. You can put in whatever.
Like the Acquired Podcast orMixergy or anything. Right? And
and then that leads to a sign upflow and then you can just

(02:55):
connect with people who are fansof the same podcasts that you're
a fan of. You can like followpeople. People can follow you.
Sort of like a social network inthat way. And so then so that's
like one half of it is publicpodcasts with, you know, organic
communities of listeners. Andthen there's the private

(03:15):
podcast. So I have a privatepodcast and and actually just in
the last week, we have now likenine people have launched
private podcasts on ripple.fm.And they've been posting
episodes and I've I've beenlistening to them.
It's it's been really cool. So IMine has like 10 episodes but a
couple episodes on the otherones too. It's just tuning into
people like us talking abouttalking openly. I think even

(03:38):
more openly than they would on apublic podcast. Talking about
their work.
Talking about building productsand stuff. And it's just been
really It it's it's been a funproject to put out there and see
it come to life. There you know,there's hosts and conversations
happening on the platform.People are following each other.

(04:00):
And we, you know, Bootstrap Webhas a little community going
here now.
Yeah. So Yeah. There you go. Idon't know. It's it's cool.
And I think it's at a point nowwhere I it's it's out there. I'm
continuing to hack on it. ButI'm ready to kinda cool things
down on my on my working on thisproject. I'm starting to look

(04:23):
ahead to to other projects to toshift my focus to. But Yeah.
I I like that it now exists andthat people can join it. I wanna
see more activity happen on it.I wanna I wanna do some things
to try to get some more usersand and activity going on the
platform. But yeah. I'm happywith with the progress that I
made on it over and like it'sbeen about a month of like

(04:45):
pushing hard on this thing and Ithink it's at a good point now.

Jordan Gal (04:47):
Yeah. It's pretty wild. When I when I'm searching
public podcasts, where is thatfeed coming from?

Yeah. So I Apple iTunes offers a free to use
search API. So it hits the well,I I set it up so that, you know,
so now we have about 300 publicpodcasts like cataloged just in
our own database of of peoplefavoriting podcasts. Right? So
when you when you search it, weinitially search our own

(05:18):
database.
Like if it's already on Ripple,we'll we'll show you And we'll
even show you how many otherfans are on Ripple.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
Mhmm.

So you know, if you search for like, I don't know,
like start ups for the rest ofus, you'll see a bunch of people
on the platform are fans of ofthat already. Right? Yeah. Give
you a link and then you can joinright from there. And then if
it's not if if it's not yetcataloged on our site, then then
we hit the search API, theiTunes search API and we pull in
literally any public podcast.

(05:46):
It's really cool. You could justpull in like the artwork from
podcast and

Jordan Gal (05:49):
Yeah. That's what I was I was just starting to
search for. I don't know.Something like group chat. If
you ever listen to group chat, Ilike it.
Right? These three guys thattalk a little Mostly business.
Mhmm. As I started searching,just saw, you know, effectively
access to a feed of allpodcasts. Yeah.

Yeah. Yep. That's it. And then and then I did put
like So there's like two tabs onthe homepage. You've got the
public search and then you cando the other tab which is
discover private podcasts.
So people who have privatepodcast, I give them the option
to make it discoverable or not.Right?

Jordan Gal (06:25):
Okay. I see that here.

And so so these are like the the podcast on the
platform that are that are sortof like featured because they
have the most episodes so far.Or the most downloads actually,
I should say. And so like ifyou're looking to if you're
looking for new like privatepodcast content and small

(06:48):
private communities to join andmeet some new people, like
that's a cool little tab to toget in on.

Jordan Gal (06:53):
Yeah. That's what I'm looking at now. This this is
very cool. Congrats on theprogress, getting it out there.
Yeah.
Very cool. It's what what Right?Let's say we're recording a
podcast, what happens afterthis? Does something
automatically is it like anotification sent or is it just
part of the feed? So

not for public podcast, at least not yet. So so
the only integration with publicpodcast is that you can find
them and then you can favoritethem. Mhmm. And then what that
does is it it adds it to yourpro so like Jordan, like you
just signed up, so so you have apublic profile now on Ripple.
Just like a Twitter profile andyou and people can follow you.
You could follow people. On yourprofile, it shows your list of

(07:37):
favorite podcasts. And and sowhatever you add to that will be
on your list. The A new thingthat I'm working on now is the
ability for hosts of publicpodcasts to like officially
claim their podcast. Mhmm.
Right? So you know, we've got abunch of podcasts that you know,

(07:58):
there's a lot of popularpodcasts where like their fans
are And so like the the hostsshould be able to go on and fill
out a form and claim themselvesas like, hey, I'm the official
host of this podcast. And Ididn't really build this stuff
yet but they're gonna be able tohave like a badge on their on
their name to say like, this isthe host. But also like giving
them more abilities to managelike maybe moderate the

(08:22):
discussions around theirpodcast, maybe add more content
to to their podcast listing. Youknow, more direct access to
their audience and the peoplewho like their podcast, you
know.
So that's an interesting angle.I thought about maybe we,
Ripple, could subscribe to theRSS feeds of public podcasts, so

(08:45):
that we could then like notifyand and drive engagement around
episodes as they drop. So that'ssomething that I'm I'm thinking
about doing. Yeah. So I'm sure.

Jordan Gal (08:57):
Right. Endless feature ideas. But I Yeah. I
think it's interesting that itis a I don't even know if I I
was gonna call it like acontained bet. But there there
isn't that much of a bet elementin terms of like, you know, I
hope this blows up and becomessome huge thing.

As a business, you mean?

Jordan Gal (09:16):
As a business. Yeah.

I have a couple So I I really don't know where it
could go as a business. I I havesome potential ideas of where it
could go. They they all dependon this thing becoming like They
all depend on the on on thething be like having a a large
growing active user base. Right?So my first priority is really

(09:37):
just to to get users andactivity and and make it a
quality plat like that's why Ibuilt it is I want it as a as a
way to network.
Right? There I have a couplethoughts around maybe monetizing
with the hosts of publicpodcasts. Like everyone should
be able to claim their podcastfor free but maybe some

(09:59):
additional abilities Mhmm. Forfor hosts. A few people have
already asked for and one of theobvious things that I could do
is make communities paid.
Like the ability for podcasterswhether private or public to
charge for access to theirprivate community and make it
like a like a paid and VIP kindof experience and we can charge

(10:23):
for that. That'll be one avenueto monetize. But I I'm a little
bit more interested in justgrowing an active user base and
then there's more businessmodels once the thing has a has
an active user base. Whetherthat's like sponsoring like
offering sponsorship revenue oror like exposure like you wanna

(10:49):
grow your podcast, you canexpose your podcast to other
listeners of similar adjacentpodcast because we have data
showing that like people wholike the acquired podcast also
tend to like these otherpodcasts. And we can it we're
growing what I think is a prettyvaluable database frankly of of

(11:10):
people who like specificpodcasts, you know.

Jordan Gal (11:15):
I like it. Oh yeah. Cool. I mean, we're gonna see
like where it organically Yeah.Grows and what comes out of it.

I And at the end of the day, like, I I still sort of
amazes me that something likethis doesn't really exist or or
at least hasn't become bigbecause you you other than I
literally don't know of anotherway other than Ripple to go find

(11:46):
my people who are interested inthe same exact things that I'm
into. Like I don't really know agood way to just go do that. I
mean, example, like Right.

Jordan Gal (11:54):
Reddit communities, but that's its

own Maybe Reddit but that's just so It's just so
random and you know. Mhmm. LikeOkay. Like if I wanna go chat
with a bunch of people about theUS presidential election right
now. I'm not gonna go do that onTwitter, you know.

Jordan Gal (12:12):
Why you you don't want like chaos goes with it?
No. It is it is chaotic. I haveblocking anytime I mention
something on politics, somethingcomes out of the woodwork. Like,
I have no response other than toblock you.
Because what what am supposed todo with that?

Yeah. Exactly. I and a, I don't wanna annoy my
followers on Twitter becausethey don't wanna hear me talk my
opinions on

Speaker 4 (12:34):
Yes.

On politics.

Jordan Gal (12:35):
That's right.

That's And also like I'm frankly, I'm not
interested in getting back abunch of random disagreements or
whatever Mhmm. About whateverviews I might have. Right? And I
I sometimes I have chats withwith friends in private, but
like not everyone not all of myfriends are into but if I can
find the listeners of a fewpolitical podcasts and then just

(13:00):
post my messages in those feeds.

Jordan Gal (13:02):
Mhmm.

Like if you're if you're a fan of, I don't know,
like Hacks on Tap, which isabout which is a couple like
political

Jordan Gal (13:10):
Okay.

People talking. Like that's that's an area where
you know, like any of these likepolitical or like a popular
political podcast. You know, Icould do the same thing for like
Mets Talk. I can I can go findpodcasts about sports or about
the sports teams that I'm into?And then I could have those
chats in those specificcommunities because I know that

(13:32):
only those people are actuallyinterested in chatting about
that stuff.
They they added that podcast totheir favorites, you know. They
listen to it. Mhmm.

Jordan Gal (13:40):
Yeah. Very interesting. I just added a few
political podcast in Ripple.Nice. Nice.
Yeah. Nice. We'll see where thatgoes.

I I wanna actually take that idea even to a next
level where it's like, maybeleveraging like categories of
podcast. So like, if if you likethis podcast, then then you're
probably a fan of this topic ingeneral. So you know, or or even
like like I could post a messageto only fans of Bootstrap Web or

(14:09):
only the fans of, I don't know,New York Times, The Daily
something like that. Mhmm. Butit would be cool if I could post
a message and like check off abox of like five different
podcasts.
Like if if you're a fan of thesefive different podcasts, then
you'll see this message that I'mabout to post. Mhmm. If not,
then you just won't see it.

Jordan Gal (14:25):
Yeah. Yeah. It does feel I am self conscious of what
I post on Twitter when it comesto politics because I feel like
it pollutes my what I normallywanna talk about or or listen to
or or look and read

Speaker 4 (14:38):
Yeah.

Jordan Gal (14:38):
On the business side. And I'm like, it's not
that I worry about offending,but you're almost you have to
curtail your public, like,personality and be self
conscious about it becauseeverything is very public and
it's one feed and it's amazingin some ways. I thought the move

(14:59):
toward anonymizing likes, Ithought that freed people up. I
know there was some pushbackinitially, but I now like much
more freely because I don't havea history of my likes that I
need to think about in thefuture.

Yeah. That was interesting how how you brought
that up. I that that changedidn't impact me at all. I I
don't even think about that. ButI do But the nature

Jordan Gal (15:22):
of

I shouldn't be. I just like whatever just just for
to hopefully influence thealgorithm in some But it I don't
even look at the for you anyway.

Jordan Gal (15:31):
It's like a soft follow. I I I use the for you
almost exclusively now. So Yeah.Like is like a soft follow
because I'm I'm signaling to thealgorithm that I like it as much
as I'm signaling to the

I mostly use it just to tell friends like, hey,
I I like what you just tweetedthere.

Brennan Dunn (15:45):
Right. Right.

But the but the thing with Twitter is that it's
This is the nature of any bigpublic social network is that I
I think over time just the waythat it influences our behavior
and our our culture is like,that's why we see so much
garbage on Twitter. Peopleoptimizing for the Twitter
algorithms or optimizing forlikes and and all that stuff.

(16:08):
And the I think maybe one of thethings that that I've always
wanted on Twitter for years. II've been thinking about this as
a potential feature for Twitterand I think it it this is
probably an influencing factorthat led me to wanna do Ripple
is that I I always wanted a wayto have like sub interests on

(16:29):
Twitter. Like for me to say as aTwitter user like, hey, I'm I'm
interested in sports.
I'm interested in politics. I'minterested in tech. I'm
interested in startups. Igenerally tweet about those four
things. And you can tune in tomy startups tweets and my tech

(16:49):
tweets.
And you can tune out of mypolitical tweets.

Jordan Gal (16:52):
Yes.

And you know, but I but at least I can have the
ability to like tweet aboutthose things and or or when I
post a tweet to say like, hey,this is a political opinion.
Only show it to people whoactually wanna hear about my
political opinions. You know?And in a way, and that that's
why I did ripple.fm because it'slike, we can use the podcast

(17:13):
ecosystem to do that. Like Mhmm.

Jordan Gal (17:16):
If you

are in these podcast, then you are interested
in those topics.

Jordan Gal (17:19):
Yeah. That's like that.

That's the whole concept Yeah. Behind

Jordan Gal (17:23):
The course selection criteria is interests. Things
that you're willing to spend alot of time listening to.

Mhmm.

Jordan Gal (17:28):
I I I have a mixed view on on on Twitter and people
mixing their political beliefswith their economic beliefs with
their business approach, allthat stuff. Yeah. I I have I'm
not good at remembering who I'msupposed to be mad at. I've
never I've never been able toremember. I I like it's kind of

(17:51):
a funny weird thing, but I can'tstay mad at anyone.
Mostly because I don't evenremember that I'm supposed to be
mad at them. Yeah. But that hastaken on a very strange tone
because some some people I haveadmired on the business front
before I knew anything abouttheir politics, I now admire
them a lot less. And I have toalmost like keep it in mind.

That's pretty interesting. Like

Jordan Gal (18:11):
Paul Graham, love your writing. Not into you as a
person at all. Was an odd thing.

Yeah. That's that's very much how I think about Elon
Elon Musk these days. Like I Ikinda hate everything of what he
talks about and stands for, butI I I still like his products
generally, you know.

Jordan Gal (18:28):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm I'm still an Elon fan, but

Yeah. Here we are. You know, it it is you know, it
is funny about like a little bitof a political sidetrack here.
Like, I I've gotten to know someof the I have like more private
like political chats withfriends and you and I have
talked a little bit but likeother people. And it's really
interesting how people havepretty very very far different

(18:52):
political views or votingpatterns than I do.
But I'm still a huge fan of themas people and and a lot of times
their their business, you know.

Jordan Gal (19:01):
Yeah. Well, the

it's also kind of fun to like, after being a fan
of a person and their businessfor years and then only then
discovering like, oh, really?That those are your politics?

Jordan Gal (19:11):
I Mhmm.

Never knew that about you and it's interesting
to see to to hear like how farfrom me you are, I'm still a fan
of of you, you know.

Jordan Gal (19:19):
Yes. You you Yes. You sometimes like will get
disappointed in them almost. Oh,you're not on my team in that
way. And then you have to itforces you to check yourself on,
like, okay.
So I have to be more accepting.I that's why I think generally,
the more the closer you are tosomeone, the more you know them,
the easier it is to accept thesedifferences, which is, like a

(19:40):
very key element in general ofbeing okay with people with
different politics and views andarguments and all this other
stuff. Online and the distancehas made that very difficult.

I mean, I've always thought that it's pretty awesome
that we get to be in a in anindustry and a community where
we're connected to so manypeople from so many different
locations. Right? Because if I'mhanging out with just people
from here in the Northeast OfThe United States, there's
there's still some variety ofpolitical views here of what
people I grew up with. But youknow, most part, it's it's I'm

(20:12):
in blue team country over here,you know? Yes.
Yes. But like it's Yeah. It'sit's kinda cool to mix it up.
And I I mean, maybe just mypersonal positions on things,
I'm very I'm like literally inthe center. I'm I'm a I'm a
centrist, whatever you wannathink of that.
Yep. Yep. So the extremes ofboth sides really turn me off.
And I and I think that that Ithink that just personally makes

(20:36):
me more empathetic to people whoI Probably you and me, we we
probably have very differentvoting history. Sure.
But like I totally relate to alot of what the other side
technically, you know, believes.Yeah. And I I find myself drawn
more and more there. Not quitecrossing the line but Mhmm. You

(20:56):
know.
Mhmm. That's that's where I amthese days.

Jordan Gal (20:59):
I I I hear you. Yeah. Everyone gets gets
influenced in their voice.Anyway, I I I love it. Let's see
what happens with Ripple.
Let's see what conversationshappen over the next week in in
our podcast, and I I will bevery interested to see if things
surprise you. Right? If like,you know, some sub genre just
finds it and all of a suddenstarts to use it as a place to

(21:22):
communicate that's just distantfrom where we are.

Yeah. Like I haven't done really any active
marketing of it yet other thanjust sharing it here and on my
Twitter. So and partly that'sbecause I wanna like smooth out
the bugs and stuff first. Yeah.I think it'll be interesting.
Like what I did ship this weekis what I hope can become some
sort of like growth flywheels.The fact that like so there's a

(21:51):
few ideas there. One is we havethis public podcast search. So
every time somebody adds apodcast, it gets indexed on our
site. Or it this is like aprogrammatic SEO play.
So people theoretically, ifyou're searching for a popular
podcast, maybe over time

Jordan Gal (22:06):
Oh, like creates a page?

Yeah. It it already has a like we already have like
hundreds of pages of podcast onthe site right now. Mhmm. So
hopefully that like I don'twanna try to compete with the
actual podcast themselves, butlike if people are searching for
communities, that could be aninteresting thing. And then like
one of the things I wanna shipsoon is like a leader board to

(22:28):
show like the top 10 mostpopular podcasts on the Ripple
platform.
And then promote that out onTwitter and and and social
media. And that can attractother fans of those top 10
podcast but maybe even thehosts. Mhmm. And then this is
something that I'm playing with.Like I talked about how how a a
public podcast host can claimtheir show.

(22:53):
I haven't fully tested this out.But like the idea would be like,
in order to get verified as thehost of your show, you have to
promote Ripple to your audienceon air. Like

Jordan Gal (23:05):
I see. This sounds like a like a crypto thing. Like
no, go out in public and postthis secret key.

Well like, if you First of all, for some people
that I literally don't know whothey are, like I have to
authenticate that it's reallythem. Yeah. But also this is
like a growth hack. Like if Soif you're the host of a show,
you tell me like, hey, I'm goingto promote my Ripple community
on the next episode. Then Ilisten to that episode and I

(23:32):
verify that yeah, Like youyou've promoted it.
Then we give you like the hostbadge and make you the host on
Ripple. But like that that's away for you. And and it's like a
win win because it's you'repromoting your community and
you're connecting with your fansfor free. So that's another
idea. It's like to get to try toincentivize hosts to promote

(23:52):
their communities on air totheir listeners to get them to
just come into Ripple for freeyou know.

Jordan Gal (23:58):
Yeah. That sounds like the ideal. The ideal is if
a podcast host uses Ripple asthe place to go have
conversation instead of Twitter.Yeah. Like that that that feels
like the ideal.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it's like also It's
it's like the I hopefully, byhaving the leader board, it it
also gives them more of anincentive because it's like,
hey, my people are actuallyalready on Ripple. You know, if
you're the host of a podcast andyour and your podcast has 50

(24:30):
fans already on and alreadyconnected on on Ripple around
your podcast.
Like, it really does sort ofmake sense for you as a host to
hop into those comments and andstart to participate. Like
that's that's the theory of thislittle social experiment. I
don't know. And then there'slike the public the public
sorry. The private podcast sidewhere like hopefully private

(24:50):
podcasters will will invitetheir audiences.
So for that side, I'm thinkingmaybe like creators who wanna
have you know, or founders whojust wanna have like a private
like journal feed or amastermind group or something
like that. You can promote thatto your people and have them
subscribe, you

Jordan Gal (25:08):
know. Cool.

So we'll see.

Jordan Gal (25:10):
I don't know. We'll get updates.

What do you got going on on your end?

Jordan Gal (25:14):
So this week, the biggest thing that I focused on
was advertising. So I wanna talkabout the experience I've had
with this company that we hired,And I also wanna talk about
outbound a a bit also.

Yeah. We got some questions about that. One was in
Ripple, one was on Twitter aboutoutbound. So yeah. We could both

Jordan Gal (25:38):
talk about that I think. Okay. Cool. Well, let's
talk about ads first. And andthen we'll get into that.
And I wanna shout out BrianShachman who has been helping us
Shankman, excuse me, helping uson the outbound at Supercella. I
wanna talk about that service.So these are like two services
that I recently hired. One onoutbound, one on ads. So this
week was was the the focus wasads.

(25:59):
So I I feel like I learned a lotin how this is done these days
with short form video. So I justwanna share that because I was
generally impressed by theirprocess. So I hired a company
called Newform, newform.ai, andthey create and manage the ads.

(26:23):
So manage meaning like on theplatforms, bidding, you know,
demographics, all the stuff thatgoes into the actual ad
management. And they also createthe ads themselves.

They're creating videos?

Jordan Gal (26:33):
They are. And so so these are short form videos that
are intended to feel usergenerated and are run as ads. So
this isn't working withinfluencers. One of the key
differentiators of this company,what I liked about them is that
their ad creators are employees.So in house, they have employees

(26:56):
that create these videosthemselves.

So like what's a give us an example of what
what's a video? What what doesit look like?

Jordan Gal (27:03):
Okay. So so this is probably the most interesting
part of the process that that Icame across. So we signed with
them a few weeks ago, but wesaid, hey. We need some time to
get this product out. We need toget into beta.
We need to make sure the thingworks. The sign up flow works
and only then are we okay withpushing a lot more traffic with
ads. So this week was was theonboarding week. We agreed on it

(27:28):
maybe four weeks ago, but thisweek it actually happened. Mhmm.
So first, there's a little bitof technical stuff in pixels.
Right? No no big deal. But thengetting into the process, we had
a call and the first thing isexplaining the product, the
value, the ICP, the theproblems. So effectively giving

(27:49):
them fodder on what to talkabout in the ad.
Mhmm. What's the hook? Whatshould we talk about in the
script? What do people careabout? Who are we who is this
intended to go out to?
So after all that, theybasically said, okay. Thumbs up.
Be right back. We'll send youscripts. Three hours later, I
get back scripts.

(28:11):
So what happened was they gaveme three scripts. I gave a
little bit of feedback and endedup in four different scripts. So
these are like ninety sixty andninety second, and the script is
talking about the problems. Andright. So an example would be
something like, don't you hatemissing phone calls when you're
out on the job, and every timeit goes to voicemail, no one

(28:34):
leaves a message, and you knowyou're losing money every time?
I found a solution for that.I've been using Rosie which is
an a you know, so okay. So thatwould be like a normal script.
And So but like do

they position themselves as like, oh, I'm just
like this normal person who hey,I just I just found this this
cool tool called Rosie like

Jordan Gal (28:52):
Yes. Exactly right. Yeah. And it's like, know, true
and exaggerated. It's like anadvertisement basically.
Yeah. Yeah. You know? When yousee an ad, it's not like the
person's like It's

sort of like

Jordan Gal (29:01):
use x clad out of the goodness of my heart and I
wanna I wanna make a video aboutit. No. You're getting paid.
Like this this what it Yeah.

Yeah. So it's like it's sort of like a like a
testimonial video.

Jordan Gal (29:12):
So there are different approaches. There are
different types of scripts aimedat different customers. So we
ended up with four differentscripts and then they took four
different like video styles. Onewould be like talking head,
right like right into thecamera. Mhmm.
One is walk and talk. Soliterally on the sidewalk
holding your phone and walking.Mhmm. Another one with a

(29:34):
different thing. So then theytook the four scripts and each
style and made one of each.
So then you have 16 videos. Andall of a sudden we have our
first batch of videos and thenit moves forward. So all this
was like in the span of threedays. It was like scripts
approved, videos approved, andnow the ad management and the

(29:55):
pixel gets done today and by theend of today, it'll be pushed
out.

Where were you pushing this out to? Like
Facebook or TikTok? Like whereare these going out?

Jordan Gal (30:01):
So their advice was to hold off on TikTok and focus
on meta. Right? So Facebook andand their their point of view
was that TikTok is very hit ormiss. It'll either blow up
immediately or won't work atall. And generally, that's not
the first thing to do firstweek.
Right? It's meta is easier tokind of launch and optimize and

(30:24):
figure out over time.

Find like the winning ads there and then and
then push those winners Right.

Jordan Gal (30:30):
Further. So right now, we are experimenting with
16 variations and what we'llsoon find out is which script
works best, which style worksbest, do more of those and then
come out with like another, youknow, 16 or whatever varieties
Mhmm. And keep pushing thoseout.

Interesting. So then it's all about video. It's
it it So in terms of like, okay.If if any of us are going to
invest in pay per clickadvertising. Like I I did some
experiments with Clarity Flowlast year and it was just kinda
straightforward like Google Ads.
And they they're we we got somedata, some some results, but

(31:07):
we're just paying for searchresults in in the search engine.
The the go to thing here islike, video is a more powerful
play these days, you think?

Jordan Gal (31:17):
I think the nature of it is different. So Google
AdWords are phenomenalespecially for SaaS when it
comes to bottom of

the search intent. Yeah.

Jordan Gal (31:25):
Yeah. Very high intent keywords. Yeah. Like, you
know, coach coach managementsoftware.

Like Yeah. But if you're like going for branding
and exposure.

Jordan Gal (31:34):
That's right. There you're going out and generating
demand as opposed to capturingit. Mhmm. So I think eventually
we'll have Google Ad. We don'thave it up yet, but we'll we'll
have it up there and eventuallywe'll start to bid against
competitors.
But the experiment here is canwe go out and generate demand
or, you know, generate interest.And I didn't think we would be

(31:57):
jumping into this so quickly.One of the things that convinced
me is I found a case study withone of our competitors put out
by TikTok. And if if that casestudy is to be believed, which I
don't have any reason that itwould be falsified, there is
more existing demand in themarket than I expected. And so I

(32:19):
said, you know what?
If they're getting that manysigns up sign ups on TikTok
alone through this type of acampaign, that means people are
more open to this type ofsolution than I thought. Yeah.
And so let's push it. Why Imean, yeah. Sure.
There are reasons to wait, but Idon't like those reasons as much

(32:40):
as I like the potential for

I love the idea of like a a team, like an agency
just recording these videos foryou. You know? And make it like
and not not super fancy, notlike, it doesn't sound like
they're like high productionvalues, just like it's supposed
to be just like a person walkingdown the street with a phone,
you know.

Jordan Gal (32:59):
Yes. They are They're a mixture. They're
medium production value. Uh-huh.So they feel authentic but they
still have little graphics thatcome up

Uh-huh.

Jordan Gal (33:07):
And you know, the the screen switches from the
person talking to the website.Like, go to rosie, you know, hey
rosie.com, and then you'll see,like, the site scroll by. So
there's, like, this in betweenwhere it is produced, but it's
not super super

I mean, and I I'm just thinking about it like from
a from a bootstrapper'sperspective, know. I I feel like
rougher the better with withvideo advertising. Right? Like,
we, you know, we can spend allday and spend all the dollars
and time we want on like thesefancy explainer videos. And
maybe you wanna put somethinglike that on your on your site

(33:43):
or like a demo video.
But like when it comes tocatching someone's attention in
the feed on Facebook orsomething like that, like people
just wanna connect with otherpeople on a human like real
level, you know.

Jordan Gal (33:56):
Right. You kinda don't want it to feel too much
like an ad.

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

Jordan Gal (34:02):
So this is one approach. What you just
mentioned has been the otherthing that I've been focused on
this week. I found a productcalled Screen dot Studio.

Oh, dude. I love it. I I use it all the time now.

Jordan Gal (34:14):
I wanna talk about it. What a great product.

It is such a great product. It's it's so well done.
I I That all all my recentvideos of showing my work have
been Screen Studio.

Jordan Gal (34:24):
You can go in deep as you if you wanna produce, you
want if you can you can impactevery single little variable.
Mhmm. But I looked into it. It'san it's an

indie also like not overly it's not like the script
and it's not like Adobe Auditionor anything. Like it's it's
simple enough that you can justdive in and and get a high
quality video done.

Jordan Gal (34:44):
Yes. It's an indie dev and I hope he's making an a
a bucket of money. Yeah. It's socool. I I started following him
on Twitter.
You know, you like fall in lovewith these types of things. This
is clearly like I love softwareand I'm gonna make beautiful
great software. And then I'mjust

gonna sell

Jordan Gal (35:02):
it for a normal price. No subscription and and
that's it. I I just hope you

get rewarded. Forgot how much I pay. It's like
some like annual fee

Jordan Gal (35:10):
for $99 or something like that. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. I think I paid for it twice that I have it
on both my computers. The so youknow, I earlier this year, I was
talking about like doing YouTubeand I went I went deep. I went
on like production value andsoftware and all this stuff. And
now, I'm I'm recording morevideos showing my work on
software products because I'musing this is gonna be a total

(35:34):
testimonial here but

Jordan Gal (35:35):
like Yeah.

Yeah. Because I'm using Screen Studio, like, it's
it it it's like the way thatthey they can make the zooming
like really really smooth andand the mouse pointing and it's
just it's a really easy way.Like I'm I'm already thinking
through ways to like share morevideo of my product work and
yeah.

Jordan Gal (35:55):
I I felt the same way. I was like, oh, I think I
can get into this and I can justpublish stuff all the time and
then use it for document look,you know, we have users now

Mhmm.

Jordan Gal (36:04):
And and we need documentation. We need help
docs. Yep. So I look at that andI'm like, oh, I I think I'm
gonna make more videos mostlybecause of the software. It
gives you this element ofconfidence without knowing that
you're gonna commit three hoursto a short video.

Yep. Yep. It's great. Love it.

Jordan Gal (36:22):
Yeah. So that that's it. Let's see what happens. I
think we're we're gonna launchthe ads today. The next phase
and what I'm really excitedabout is, you know, the
advertising company.
They they told us this can onlywork to the degree that your
funnel is optimized. And rightnow, your funnel is not

(36:44):
optimized. Mhmm. Your funnel isoptimized for people who get to
your site, click a button andwanna create an account. That's
not the same people who saw anadvertisement on reels and click
with interest.

What's the And Call to action for them.

Jordan Gal (37:00):
So the philosophy is basically to get them as deep
into the funnel as possiblebefore you add friction. And so
a page that says usernamepassword, basically register an
account is the worst possiblething.

Uh-huh. So Like like get them using the product
before

Jordan Gal (37:19):
Using yes. Whatever you can give to get them deeper
in in closer to the value beforeyou ask for any additional
friction. Mhmm. So I think we'regonna do a lot of work over the
next few weeks on what thatlooks like and it gives me some
new appreciation for ourcompetitor that I don't think
their site is good at all. Butthen when you click to get

(37:40):
started, at first I was likethis feels you know kinda hokey.
It's weird. Like you come inthen you choose a voice then you
go this thing. So all this likestuff you do and it's like like
step one of five. In my mind I'mlike that is crazy. What do what
do you mean step five before Ican like create an account?
Mhmm. Then if you view it fromthat point of view like, oh,
people are paying to get intothis funnel. They don't even

(38:01):
know who the company is. Theyhaven't seen the website. Like
totally different mindset.

Yeah.

Jordan Gal (38:06):
And I have a new appreciation for you.

Yeah. I like that. I It'll It will be interesting
to me the the the response ofthe like, the types of users
that come through those funnels,like the video ads versus the
types of You If if you do theout outbound directly to
businesses. Like, I feel likethose are gonna be two
completely different funnels.

Jordan Gal (38:28):
Yes. But we we are gonna push on both. Yeah. Yes.
You wanna talk about outbound?

Yeah. Let's do it. I mean, I I know you've been
working with an agency. I I'veI've been setting it up myself
for the past year with ClarityFlow and we could talk about how
how it's all working, know. I Iknow we've had a few questions
here and there on on that.

Jordan Gal (38:52):
Okay. Anything specific in in Ripple that that
we wanna answer?

Where was that question? Let me find it.
Favorites.

Jordan Gal (39:01):
This is kind of awesome. I can just jump in
there and look at the replies.That's awesome. Yeah. So it
looks like looks like Adam wasasking you about how you
designed and implemented yourcold outreach for clarity flow.

Yes. Yep. Yeah. I mean, I I can't get into all the
all the weeds on it. But at ahigh level And I I I learned
some things the hard way.
You're setting up So at first, II set up like a bunch of
different sending domains likethe theory there is like you

(39:34):
don't wanna send cold outreachfrom your actual domain. You
wanna send it from like similardomain. So, you know Yes. If if
your if your main domain is likeexample.com, you might be
sending from like examples.comor or example.co or you know.
Because you don't wanna ding thethe reputation of your main

(39:55):
domain.

Jordan Gal (39:56):
It's it's almost like rule number one. Like you
are We Like there will befuckery involved here, you know,
on on the number so

nature of the beast is is people are there's gonna
be some percentage that's gonnamark you as spam no matter what.

Jordan Gal (40:09):
Yes. You

know. And then the more like, it only takes a few
people to mark your email at inas spam, and then like all of
your emails will be going intothe spam folder for like ninety
days until it recovers, youknow?

Jordan Gal (40:20):
Yes. And like all of your most important emails

just like personal emails from Yes. Domain. So you
you wanna like Yeah. Avoid that.Yes.
So that that involved At firstfor me, it was like setting up
20 different Google Workspaceaccounts and paying for 20 like
and and having like all thesedifferent domains and and and
because like you can't evenThat's the other thing is like
you you sort of wanna likeseparate the sending accounts

(40:47):
too. Mhmm. Mhmm. I've I've sinceDid

Jordan Gal (40:50):
you do that yourself?

I did. It was a complete pain in the ass. Okay.
And I've since moved to aservice called Maldozo, which
basically replaces the the needfor Google Workspace Yep. Which
is great.
I think they are startups. Theythey were knocking out some
kinks when I was gettingstarted. But And then I I use

(41:11):
What's it called? Instantly..ai,I believe.

Speaker 4 (41:14):
Okay.

It's not even really an AI tool. They just
have AI in their domain.

Jordan Gal (41:18):
Sure. Because why not?

But that's You know, it's one of of the many
cold email outreach tools thatyou could use. There's another
whole side to like buildinglists and and all that. Don't
get into all the details therebut Right. There's plenty of
tools to find your your idealprospects, know.

Jordan Gal (41:36):
Yeah. We use smart lead for a lot of things
combined with Google sheets butjust to talk about two two
services. So Brian Shankman runsa service called super Seller.
So superseller.co. And that'swho we have been working with on
the outbound side.
So he set up the system,including the domains and and

(41:59):
the copywriting and then managesit also. So it was it was great
because we'd have done that inthe past ourselves. And even
when we had on staff somesalespeople who had done it
before and and and were familiarwith it, Brian just like
elevated everything. Madeeverything so much easier and so
much better at the same time.Yep.

(42:19):
And now we're working I have togive a shout out because Michael
Mike is a a listener. But MikeBenson runs a a company called
Male Reef. Male, r e e f. Mhmm.And that feels like we're going
from like the civil war to WorldWar one.
Like things are like gettingmechanized. So right now, we did

(42:41):
what what you did on the on thedomain front with some tools
that made it make it easier. Youknow, as opposed to doing it
totally manually.

Yeah. That's essentially what like Maldozo
does. I don't know. May maybeMalreap is a similar idea.

Jordan Gal (42:55):
It's similar but it's just like you can really
scale.

Yeah.

Jordan Gal (42:59):
So you could do You know, you can get to a place
where you're sending a 100,000emails a month. Yeah.

So we I are mean and that's the other thing about
having multiple emails like, youknow, because there's a limit to
how many you can send like perday. Like it's you know, it it's
a question of like how safe youwanna play it but it's like only
like, I don't know, somethinglike 50 or something like that.
Like, it is recommended like perday per email. Otherwise Mhmm.
You know, because these serviceswill notice like you're sending

(43:26):
the same email over and overagain.
And then there's you know, forfor people who aren't familiar,
there's also the warm up periodwhere there's a lot of tools
that handle that for you whichis

Jordan Gal (43:36):
like Yep.

This gets again getting into the weeds but like
before you can even really startsending from a cold email
outreach program like you haveto like show some what looks
like organic activity in youremail client to to show that
you're sending and and receivingemails back. That takes Yeah.
About like four weeks to quoteunquote like warm up. Yeah.

(43:59):
That's As sending day.
Yeah.

Jordan Gal (44:00):
I love that. I just love the the concept of that.
Yeah. Just get getting ready tohammer the market. Right.
We are currently in the warm upperiod with Male Reef. So our
outbound right now we send about450 emails a day. So it will be
interesting to see what happenswhen that is like tripled,
quadrupled

Yep.

Jordan Gal (44:21):
And and so on in in about a month.

Yeah. That's yeah. We're we're a little bit more
than that per week across allthe different email campaigns.
And then, you know, and so likeabout twice a year now, I go
through the process of what doyou call it? Just like
rebuilding our list.
Right? Like we we have a we havea lit we have a couple different

(44:45):
ways that we build lists of ofprospects and and then we build
it up to like something like 20or 30,000 contacts and that'll
last us for like the next sixmonths of cold outreach, you
know like. Yeah. So I and thenthat's like a that's like a
probably like a month project. Ihave I have an assistant who
works that little task for meand we just do that like twice a

(45:07):
year to build up a list.

Jordan Gal (45:09):
Alright. Well, we're we're gonna see where where that
leads. It yeah. It does feellike the you know, there's a
question in Ripple now fromsomeone asking me like, how will
I know if this is, like,working? If we should you know,
what's the criteria?
Mhmm. I I have really stoppedthinking about that. Originally

(45:33):
going in, if you recall a fewmonths ago, I was like, you
know, basically, you know, oneproduct every four months, get
it up in two months, push it fortwo months, let's see if we
should stick with their pivotagain or launch a new product. I
kinda stopped thinking that way

Mhmm.

Jordan Gal (45:46):
And mentally all in Yep. On Rosie and just, you
know, I think it's gonna take awhile to make it work. Yeah. But
we like it and we like thepotential and the feedback so
far is is good. And therefore,like, I've kinda shed the idea
of another product and morearound the well, we're just
gonna persevere with thisproduct and that might mean

(46:08):
pivoting in direction andstrategy and who we're focusing
on, but not not a differentproduct.

Yeah. I I like that for you because you you have the
firepower, you have the funding,you have the team, you have a
great product already right outof the gate and and you're in a
great space. And like Yeah. ItRight. There there's so There
many there are so many moremoves for you to make.

(46:35):
And so many more things to buildand figure out on go to market,
on all that stuff, you know.

Jordan Gal (46:42):
Yes. Right. We we are basically in search of a
channel Mhmm. And a market tocapture some element of product
market fit and how to reach themand Yes. And then Yeah.
It feels like if we're carefulenough on spend, then you can
kinda make it work.

Yeah. I mean, you know, actually on that on that
note, like what's what's next?Like that's where I find myself
today is I I just spent the pastmonth really hammering on this
ripple idea. And now, I Itweeted about this yesterday
like, I got it to like what Ithink of as like a checkpoint,
like a finished state. Notfinished forever, but finished

(47:21):
for now.
Right? There there are stillmore things that I'm deploying
to it and and you know, I talkedabout the growth hack ideas. But
like, I'm not I'm decidedly notall in on on this Sure. Product
or any product.

Jordan Gal (47:36):
Right. That's almost the strategy.

Yeah. Yep. My strategy that I'm embracing now
is build a bunch of ideas. Justget a just just act. Get out of
analysis paralysis.
Get out of putting all my eggsin one basket. I don't have the
kind of funding or runway of aof a funded startup. I'm a
bootstrapper. I I have aconsulting business that I'm

(48:00):
running now. And and when I'mnot working on client projects,
I am hacking on product ideas.
So I'm I'm starting to turn myfocus again to to like the
Sunrise dashboard idea. I'mplaying around with some
programmatic SEO stuff to to getthat going, but maybe building

(48:21):
that into sort of a system,maybe a product around
programmatic SEO. I'm juststarting to like hack on on
stuff. And and I and I thinklike having spent the last month
on Ripple and got and gettingsort of like getting it to a
finished product. That could besort of like the pattern for me
now.

(48:41):
Is like spending about a monthto to get the MVP of a product
of mine into the world. Mhmm.And I've been, you know, I I
talked about last time I Ilaunched my service 1month.app
that I'm I'm literally startingon on one of those for a client
next week. Oh, cool. So and thisgets back to like Screen Studio.

(49:05):
I wanna be more public about thethings that I'm building. I have
ideas for content around like aseries of videos on building an
app in five five business daysor something like that, know. Or
building an app over the courseof a month. And just really
publicizing the work that I'mdoing on on these products for
the purpose of content, for thepurpose of building, and just

(49:27):
for putting stuff into myportfolio that could who knows
where it could where it can go.Like like I need to be planting
more seeds because my portfolioof assets is has been sort of
stagnant for for longer than Iwould like.
So I need to get new stuffgoing. That's that's my mindset.
I must say like building new,the speed that I'm able to build

(49:51):
at now is incredible. With withthe use of AI, it is incredible.
What you go to

Jordan Gal (50:01):
in development.

This is really interesting.

Jordan Gal (50:04):
A lot of things about Claude, lot of things
about Cursor.

Yeah. Cursor I don't use Cursor. I tried it. I
have not really used Claude. I Iwanna check that out.
Mhmm. I'm mostly just using chatGPT.

Jordan Gal (50:16):
GPT?

Frankly, it I do use so my coding text editor is
RubyMine. It's Cursor is a issort of a fork off of Versus
Code, which is like one of themost popular ones. Now they all
like Cursor, Versus Code hasCopilot. I use RubyMine which
has AI, which I think usesChatGPT. So like, it's built

(50:40):
into into all the text editorsnow.
But I've I've and I that's whatI've been using for the last
like two, three years wherewhere like it'll help you
complete a sentence or completea line of code. Right? And so
that's good for like day to daysmall AI help in your coding
workflows. But what I found inbuilding new, building a new app

(51:04):
from the ground up with withRipple, and I have an app
template and stuff that I use, Ifind myself going directly to
ChatGPT, especially with four o,which is way faster Mhmm. To
generate content, to generatestuff.
So I just go to chat GPT and belike, alright, this is what I'm
building. We need to we need towire up the controller, the

(51:28):
view, the model for this. Here'show it's gonna work. Here's the
logic that I want. Fire it up.
And then I copy and paste andput that into my app, and then I
polish it up and get it working.And it's like so much faster
than me writing all that stufffrom scratch.

Jordan Gal (51:43):
So like the structural foundation It's just
like of the app?

Like building a new app from the ground up is so is
like, I mean, a 100 times fasterthan I was like two years ago.
Like because it Two years ago, Iwas pretty good at building full
stack, but I was writing everysingle part of it. Mhmm. If I'm
if I'm creating a new model anda controller, I'm writing every

(52:07):
line of that model andcontroller. Like, yeah, I might
copy and paste some commonpatterns that I have, but but
it's still me doing it.
Now, for the most part, it'slike, okay, I need to I need to
do this this this logic for thisbackground job, for this thing
that I need to do. Here's whatit needs to do. Boom boom boom.
Here's the here's theprogramming logic. Pop that into
ChatGPT.

(52:27):
It gives me a it gives me likethe the 100 lines of code that I
need for that logic. I grabthat. I pop it into my app. I
test it. I tweak it.
I polish it. And I ship it likethe next day. Like, that's the
workflow.

Jordan Gal (52:43):
And pretty wild.

I mean, that's literally how I'm I'm I'm sort
of amazed at like the takingthis idea of Ripple from idea to
what it is today in the lastfour weeks. That would have not
been possible a couple yearsago. Would have been four or
five months of work right there,you know. And and then even the

(53:04):
other part is like getting intookay. So you're building new, so
you're gonna hit a roadblock allthe time.
Mhmm. Alright. This this pieceis really complex. Okay. So like
this week, I I spent a lot oftime doing like spam bot
protection so so that our searchbox on the homepage of Ripple

(53:25):
does not get abused.
Right? Okay. There's some stuffhappening like underneath the
hood that that hopefully is isinvisible to users, but I wanna
make sure that we're not gonnaget hammered with spam on that
search box. And hitting the APIand hitting our database and all
this stuff. Right?
Like that's a pretty complexproblem to figure out and and
implement in the right waywithout harming the user

(53:47):
experience. And I just it's mein collaboration with ChatGPT to
get through all the hairyproblems with that. It took like
twenty four hours to get itgoing, you know. Like it's it's
incredible, the speed.

Jordan Gal (54:03):
So you are you are accidentally a 12 startups in
twelve months person?

Maybe. I don't know. I'm not I'm not like doing
that thing where like, oh I'mgonna proclaim that every
calendar month this year, I'mgonna release a new app like
none of that.

Jordan Gal (54:17):
I'm But the pace, you you keeping up.

Yeah. I mean, and I'm not I'm not necessarily
trying to start something andthen stop working on it a month
later. But I am I I I'm justfollowing my gut on everything
where it's like, okay. I I knowwhere this current project needs
to get to. Where it gets to apoint where it's okay if I could

(54:42):
turn my attention to somethingelse and and it won't completely
like kill all the momentum thatI had over there.
Yeah. So like like just justknowing like what is the next
finished checkpoint that I needto get to. Like for for Ripple,
that was basically where we'reat today, which is like home
page is live. People can sign upand search and use it for free

(55:05):
and interact. I've got some somelike notifications that go out
to help engagement.
Okay. So it's it's at a goodpoint. Now I can start to think
about something else that can bemore of like a revenue
generating type product. That'smore what I'm focused on now.
And and what and so like Okay.
Like right now my thinking iswith Sunrise dashboard, which is

(55:26):
still just in an idea phase, myfirst task is to see if I could
fire up a programmatic SEOsystem to generate pages that
can start driving traffic tothis thing. And I'll probably
spend the next couple of weeksbuilding that and deploying
that. And then it's like, okay.Let's see if that works and get

(55:47):
some traffic and I'll probablythen turn my attention to
something else for for

Jordan Gal (55:52):
And then I can Right. As it starts to roll.

Yeah. And then like here and there, day here, a day
there, I can I can pop back intoRipple and improve some little
feature or I can or I can gobuild Sunrise dashboard if I'm
getting Mhmm? You know, enoughearly access sign ups and things
like that. And it it justoptionality, keeping it open,
doing a bunch of things. I sortof like to jump around a little

(56:15):
bit.
I had a good conversation withJosh Pigford the other day on on
my other podcast. We talked alittle bit about doing multiple
projects and products and goingdown the rabbit hole for three
weeks and benefiting from that,you know.

Jordan Gal (56:29):
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. I I like watching Josh do that.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Jordan Gal (56:35):
I I like his he just doesn't feel very self conscious
about Yeah. Switching attention.Hey, this is what I'm into. I'm
just gonna share what I'm doingright now that is what it might
be three d printing. It might betaking down, you a designer that
screwed me.
Yeah. But I'm gonna focus

on it. Yeah. Sure. But it's it's also cool because
it's like, you just get exposureto so many different problems
and so many different new skillsets and that you can take what
you learned from one thing andbring it into another thing. And
and like everything that I buildgoes into my app template.
So like whenever it's somethingthat I know I'm gonna reuse, it

(57:13):
it goes right into my apptemplates. So I did like just in
building Ripple, I 10 x'd mytemplates. So that like the next
app that I fire up is gonna bethat much faster to get going.

Jordan Gal (57:22):
Interesting. Yeah. Cool. Well, we are we're gonna
see what the next week hold forus.

Yes, sir.

Jordan Gal (57:30):
Yeah. We're we're officially self serve. Anyone
that wants to jump in and testthings out can feel free at hey,
Rosie.

Yeah. I gotta I gotta try that out.

Jordan Gal (57:40):
You should. I I'm gonna post a video of me inside
of the basically the what we'recalling public Rosie, which is
the phone number you can justcall to ask about our actual
product.

Yeah.

Jordan Gal (57:53):
And so it's an example of a SaaS company using
the phone. For us, it's moreimportant than maybe others
because people wanna hear andexperience the product and the
end result of the product isactually a phone call.

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. But it's been

Jordan Gal (58:10):
it's been fun thinking about it in that
context because I've showed itto a few founders. I showed it a
few investors also and it's atrip. It's it's a trip. So I
would have on the screen, thisis probably what I'll show also
in in in the recording that Imake. I will ask a question on
the phone, on speaker phone.
And on the screen, I willhighlight me asking something

(58:32):
similar, maybe not verbatim. Andthen the response, will
highlight in the app. And thenall of a sudden, you'll hear the
exact words that I want Rosie tosay when asked a question like
it. And then maybe I'll ask itslightly differently and she'll
give an answer that's slightlydifferent. So it's it feels like

(58:52):
a person like adjusting andsaying the same thing but with
different words.

Where do okay. So how do you feel about the
product today as it stands? Likelike in in your phone number for
Rosie, what do you feelconfident in it answering? And
like have you found any spotswhere it's like, yeah, it's not
quite there yet for the for thisor that type of conversation or
or

Jordan Gal (59:15):
at we we we find some things that are silly, some
things that are serious, and arealready you know, right now
we're we're listening to userrecordings.

Mhmm.

Jordan Gal (59:26):
We're reading transcripts, and we are
identifying things that shouldbe improved. So the way I look
at it, the way I just explainedto my team at All Hands a few
days ago, that we have a goodproduct that is 80% of the way
there. It works. You can ask youquestions. It talks back to you.
It does things like setappointments. It sends you text

(59:47):
message confirmation. You can gointo the app and add a new FAQ,
and the answer will be betterfor it because you just trained
it by adding an FAQ. We're 80%of the way there. The next 10%
is from feedback and learning.
So a piece of feedback was Rosiewas saying, is there anything
else I can assist you withtoday? Right. Totally reasonable

(01:00:10):
thing to say. But if you say thethose exact words three times in
a two minute conversation, it'sweird. Mhmm.
Is there anything else I canassist you with today? You know,
and then thirty seconds later,is there anything else I can
Yeah. So we so a lot of it is issolvable with code. You just say
Yeah. Here's this phrase, say itdifferently if you've already

(01:00:31):
said it before.
Mhmm. And and you know that as adeveloper, you you just code
that in. You say, if this comesup more than once, so now she'll
say, is there anything else Ican assist you with today? And
then if it makes sense to asksomething similar, she'll say,
anything else I can help youwith?

Brian Casel (01:00:45):
Right.

Jordan Gal (01:00:45):
So these little tiny tweaks that just improve things
over time, I think that's thenext 10%. The last 10% is going
to be a challenge. Yeah. Acombination of breakthrough
innovation, model improvement,time, user feedback, and that I
basically have set theexpectations to our team. That's

(01:01:06):
gonna be really hard and churnis not gonna be really good
until we get to that last 10%.
So we're in for a lot of work.

I'm guessing the is more complex like working with
customers to help them or likealmost like consulting
customers, like the AI beingable to consult customers on
stuff.

There's some of that and there's also human
conversation. Edge cases are notthat edgy. Mhmm. You know,
something that comes up thatisn't just what when are you
open? What services do youoffer?
Can I set an appointment? Like,it's actually a lot. A large
percentage of conversations haveat least one element that is

(01:01:48):
slightly different. It's just amatter of style, how people
speak to each other, the way Icall a business, and the way my
wife calls a a business arecompletely different.

Very different.

My wife likes to pick up the phone and explain
and then ask the question. Ilike to ask the question because
I mean whatever it is. Somatching that

Mhmm.

Is difficult and there's also a ton of work on
the UI and the UX itself wherewe are getting good as a team
improving an agent and making itbetter. But that does not equal
a total stranger being able tocome in and within thirty
minutes have it be workingreally well.

Yeah. I know you're really going for like the self
serve strategy on this. But I Ijust can't help but think that
like what you're building reallyThere there's still an
opportunity for for your team orsomeone to to be the consultant
for your customers to help themset up and optimize their agent,
you know.

Yeah. We're we're starting to see like maybe two
tiers and they literally mightmatch with pricing tiers. Yeah.
Where someone that values speedand being able to do it on their
own without talking to anyoneand just getting their agent
their own 80% of the way thereand that's just a huge help and
that's $50 a month and andthey're happy with that. And
then other businesses that aremore sensitive to what it says

(01:03:04):
and how it responds and gettingcloser to the 95 percent and
that is where it may might makesense for our team to jump in
and offer a service or to havethe tools that if you are
willing to spend hours in thetool making it awesome that you
do have those tools.
Yeah. And of course, we can helpwith that if it's a $250 or $500

(01:03:25):
a month tier as opposed to 50 oror a 100. Different versions
almost.

Like I wanna try to find a way to offer a phone
number for Clarity Flowcustomers. And that's that's why
I'm really interested in Rosiebecause I can't really I can't
really afford to have somebodyon available on the like I would
like to use it for presales. Ifeel like I could potentially
use it for presales questions.Right? If we give it the the our

(01:03:52):
own FAQ like these are thefeatures that you could educate
customers about.
And then my fear is that likeexisting customers will call it
and and their conversations withCat or customer success like
those are much deeper and waymore complex because they're
actually setting up their wholecoaching practice on on Clarity
Flow and like it's really compthat's why Kat does what she

(01:04:14):
does, know.

Right. Right. That might not be good or it might
need to be effectively pushedtoward leaving a detailed
message

Mhmm.

More so than getting help right there. But yeah, I
think the presales mean, you youwanna try it? I'll just call
right Yeah.

Oh, hell yeah. Let's do it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:36):
Hello. Thank you for calling Rosie. Our call may be
recorded today for qualitycontrol purposes. My name is
Rosie. How can I help you?

Oh, hi. I'm on your website and I'm just curious if
you have a free trial.

Speaker 4 (01:04:48):
Hey there. Yep. We do offer a free trial. You can try
Rosie for seven days, and itincludes fifty minutes of free
usage. If you go over thoseminutes, you'll switch to our
forty nine dollars month plan.
How's your business handlingcalls after hours right now?

Right now, just goes to voice mail, which we're not
that happy about. Alright. Solet's say I go through the free
trial, and then what did you sayis $49 a month? What's my what's
my minute limit for that plan?

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
For the $49 a month plan, you get up to two hundred
fifty minutes.

Hey. I gotta

Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
help over those two hundred fifty minutes, it's 20¢
per minute after that. How'syour business handling those
missed calls right now?

One sec. Hold on. One sec.

Hey hey, Rosie. Can can I hear Sure.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
Take your

Is it don't know if my speaker can hear you.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
Nice to meet you.

Hey, Rosie. I got a quick question for you. Rosie,
how how does the setup processwork with me and my team for my
business?

I I hung up because I don't think she was able to
hear through

the speaker. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But that's that's it. I'll give you that
phone number and you can askthat. And you know, think what
you should do is just create anaccount and put in your your URL
and it should be trained on onthat. That's the easiest thing
is website scraping, then it'strained on the information on
the URL.
And then I think the bestfeature we have right now is

(01:06:09):
this f the thing that we'recalling FAQ. Yeah. But what it
is, it is like it is your whenyou're in the admin and it's
your Rosie account, it's likehaving the ability to train an
employee with your knowledge.

I love it.

And when someone asks you this question, like,
want you to be able to say this.This is the right this is the
correct answer, and then I canadd 30 of those FAQs, and you
don't have to remember them.Rosie just knows them from then
on, and she does a really goodjob of adjusting the answers
based on how the question wasasked and very and you you saw

(01:06:44):
there, like, we started westarted doing this thing where
instead of just asking answeringthe question, she goes, how are
you how are you doing that now?

Yeah. Very like sales sales led Yeah. Tactic
there. Like it. Yes.
Yeah. I I I do wanna try it outlater. Because I wanted to ask
it like just like explain to mewhat what the setup process is
like. Like trying to get awayfrom like a yes or no answer
like a

Yes. Yes. Super cool. And so what what we should
do is we should be listening tothose. Right?
As a business

Yeah.

We should be listening to those and that is
such a great question fromsomeone who's interested in the
service that I would then say,how would I want my employee to
answer that question? Mhmm. AndI would open up a new FAQ and
I'd say, what's the setupprocess like question mark and
then I would write exactly whatI want Rosie to say in that
context. Because sometimes onyour website, it the answer

(01:07:36):
might actually be too long wherein the phone context, you may
wanna say this is what happensand then this and then this and
if you need if you need anyhelp, we're always for

you. And also I could see you using AI to
analyze the recordings. Right?Like because that's the other
thing that that you know,because over time if a business
is generating a lot of phonecalls, they're not gonna take
the time to actually listen backto them and and optimize them.
But but you can use AI to addlike, hey, these are like the
top five questions that keepcoming up again and again.

(01:08:07):
Focus on these and put you knowRight. You don't have

an FAQ for for these two. Do you wanna create them
now? A great idea.

Yeah. Like like, oh, these these are some
questions that we don't havethat These are some questions
that came up that we don't havean FAQ for yet, know. Awesome.

Cool. That's fun.

That was cool. It's We we gotta do that again. The
the live AI call on air.

Yes. Oh, yes. I I wanna get to a point where it's
really easy to Like that's mygoal with with the recording
that I make either today or nextweek to be able to just go and
show how easy it is. You put theURL in, it goes into your
account.

I mean, that could already be have this but like,
you can even have a couple ofquick videos maybe using the the
Screen Studio thing. But like onthe website like, yeah, you
could just call it and test itout. But really demonstrate
like, hey, these are like fiveor 10 different recordings of
real people calling Rosie,calling our Rosie number. Mhmm.

(01:09:03):
Yeah.
Cool. Good stuff, man.

Good to see you. Thanks everyone for listening.
Have a great weekend. Later,folks.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Networks & Audiences

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

Networks & Audiences

Dateline NBC