April 23, 2024 • 50 mins
An MMORPG where player-driven economies and a thirst for adventure rule. Develop your skills as a trader, artisan, or entrepreneur as you explore the Cornucopian land masses enclosed in floating domes thousands of meters high. Challenge other players, create digital assets that you actually own, and discover the truth behind what awaits you beyond the domes…
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Intro / Outro (00:02):
Welcome to Building the Future, hosted by
Kevin Horek. With millions oflisteners a month, Building the
Future has quickly become one ofthe fastest rising programs with
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(00:22):
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visit building the future showdot com.
Kevin Horek (00:30):
Welcome back to the show. Today, we have Rob Greggs,
the cofounder and co CEO ofCornucopias. Rob, welcome to the
show.
Rob Greig (00:37):
Yeah. Hello. Thanks for having me. Yeah. I'm excited
to have
Kevin Horek (00:40):
you on the show. I I think what you guys are
building is really innovativeand cool. But maybe before we
get into all that, let's get toknow you a little bit better and
start off with where you grewup.
Rob Greig (00:51):
Oh, yeah. Sure. I I grew up in Manchester, which is
in, the north of England in theUK. Manchester is famous for
music, arts, and football or orsoccer, as the Americans would
say. Sure.
It was in in the early years, II lived quite a poor
neighborhood, but I, you know, Ididn't I didn't really know
(01:11):
exactly. I played a lot offootball with, with my brothers,
and, was my mom and dad. Theywere tough, hardworking, working
class Northerners, parents,worked a few jobs to provide
everything they could for thechildren. We had, like, a
caravan on a holiday camp inthe, near near the coast of
(01:33):
Wales. So so every weekend, wewould we would go to this
campsite.
And I suppose that's where Ikind of first discovered the
video arcade machines back inthe eighties, like Ghost and
Goblins and Out Run, BubbleBobble, Double Dragon, or some
some amaze amazing games. And Iwas absolutely obsessed with
games. And and then when homecomputers came out, you know, I
(01:54):
had every single console I Icould think of, you know, the
Atari 2,600, Amstrad, Commodore64, Miga ST. And then I had the
ZX Spectrum when I was about 12.Sure.
And that that was probably thecomputer that eventually had set
me on a path to becoming aprogrammer, although I didn't
(02:15):
know that at the time. Do youwant me to carry on?
Kevin Horek (02:19):
Yeah. Sure. No. This is awesome. Keep going.
Rob Greig (02:21):
Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, I suppose from the early
eighties, I I I started readingthe series of these role playing
adventure books
Kevin Horek (02:29):
written
Rob Greig (02:30):
by Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson. I don't know
if you've then you've seen thethe kind of choose your own
adventure. So you'd sit downwith a pen and paper, and you'd
read the story and be givenoptions. Do you wanna climb the
mountain, go to this page, or doyou wanna go to the village and
and you'd literally open? So,you know, you'd fight mo
monsters and roll dice.
And and what I I was justabsolutely fascinated with this,
(02:53):
and I would I would kind ofwrite my own little adventures
and then try and program them onthe spectrum. And I I I was I
was just, you know, just alittle geek back in those days.
I went to a grammar school,which was a bit of a nightmare
because I had to take 3 busesand a train, College and
university in Manchester. Livingat home still. I never I never
(03:16):
moved away from home till lateron, but I was always working.
Always were obsessed with withworking. And then when I left
university
Kevin Horek (03:26):
So sorry to cut you off. What did you take in
university and why?
Rob Greig (03:30):
Yeah. So at university, I took, information
systems. So I I was I justwanted to continue college, I I
I I discovered at collegeprogramming. Although I I've
been a programmer since I was12, I never actually knew it was
a thing. And then I went intocollege, and I learned about
(03:51):
databases, and it was it was anactual proper job.
It was like, this is this isincredible. So I continued that
to university. I did 4 years atuniversity. And one of those
years was like a year off. Iactually managed to to go down
south, and work for IBM for ayear.
You know, IBM back in back inthe nineties was was massive,
(04:11):
and that that was a real, realeye opener, completely different
from anything that I'd I'd beenused to before. So I left
university, again moved downsouth, and I began working for
this really large, electricityutility company. So I had a few
years of corporate experience,And that was that was
(04:35):
completely, completely differentworld from from the one that
that I knew up north. And, youknow, I enjoy being surrounded
by these these older, smartlydressed, clever people, but it
frustrated the life out of methat all they wanted to do all
day was drink coffee and havemeetings. And all I wanted to do
(04:56):
was was was just learn learnabout databases, write code.
You know? I I was obsessed. Soit it it it was bizarre. But so
Kevin Horek (05:06):
it Well, I get that. I get that. I don't think
that's bizarre at all.
Rob Greig (05:11):
It it it was it was honestly, it was surrounded by
so many contractors becausenobody actually lived in kind of
Swindon. People moved in. So soso I got a first taste of, you
know, what contractors concontractors did. I suppose, you
know, they'd earn loads ofmoney, but they didn't do any
work, which was I like the ideaof earning lots of money, but I
didn't like the idea of of notof not not doing any work. But
(05:34):
Yeah.
Through one of thesecontractors, I actually started
writing some software for abaking company in London. So I
was working during the day, andthen in the evening, you know, I
was programming on the weekend.So so that was kind of my first,
I I suppose, my aunt where myentrepreneurial kind of kind of
life began being surrounded. I'mI'm being in that world. And
(05:56):
then then after a few years ofthat corporate life, I sold my
house, moved back up north,lived off the profits for a few
years while I set up my own myvery first company and went into
partnership with my best friendfrom school who is actually also
a a founder of of Conocoapius atthe moment.
(06:17):
And, you know, we built up acompany in the real estate
industry. I developed thesoftware. He he would be testing
it. We wrote everything from 360degree tours of of houses, CRMs,
data mining applications. Andthen we sold that business
actually in 2007 just before thehousing crisis, to, one of the
(06:42):
largest real estates companiesin the UK.
So so that that was very, verylucky. I suppose from then on, I
had a number of long termcontracts, developing systems,
and eventually moving in intokind of business analysis, which
was was really natural because Ibecause I had kinda like the
corporate background of workingwith different diverse people. I
(07:05):
was also a programmer. I could Iwould I would felt really
natural talking to developers,but kind of translating their
speak in into into the corporateworld. So so that that was a
really natural transition, lateron in my career.
And, yeah, in the background ofkind of contracting, I've always
(07:26):
had some kind of a side hustleworking on bleeding edge, you
know, technology because Ialways always obsessed with
wanting to work for myself. So Iwas working with SMS, ZigBee
Bluetooth, and then thateventually led me to blockchain
back in 2017. That kind ofbrings us up till today to maybe
(07:46):
the last 5 years.
Kevin Horek (07:48):
No. That's cool, man. So what got you kind of
passionate about the blockchainand web 3? And then let's dive
into what you're building today.
Rob Greig (08:01):
Yeah. So so so yeah. So 2017 came around. Blockchain
was was all brand new. We werecoming towards, I suppose, the
the the top of of of that thatbull cycle.
So it was everywhere. And, thatkind of died off then, but I now
I discovered Web 3. I earlyblockchain was Bitcoin,
(08:22):
Ethereum, and Cardano and and afew others, XRP. So so I I
stayed kind of in the space,trying to absorb as much as we,
as I could. And then in 2020, Ithink it was summer of 2020, I
saw kind of like an advert forfor software developers,
community software developers tostart building open source
(08:45):
infrastructure on the Cardanoblockchain.
So I was still working a fulltime job at the time, but I was
one of the original 50 peoplethat was invited to to start
project catalyst, which wasreally, really exciting at the
time. And then from then so soproject catalyst is like a
(09:05):
community funding where you puta submission in and you'd go
through various and if you gotfunds, you then then build your
software. And then fund 3, I hadone of my projects funded. And
at the time, Charles Hoskinson,he was the the CEO of of
Cardano. He was reading out allall the the various winners.
(09:26):
When he got to my project, hegoes, oh, oh, yeah.
Opensource.net. We we need that.And and so so he just kind of
added something different thanhe did to other projects. And
then at the time, Josh Jones,the the other co CEO of
Cornucopias, he was running, hishis own YouTube channel, and and
he saw Charles say we need that.
(09:47):
And he and he was interested inwhy why Charles would remark on
on my project. He kind of lookedme up. We we had a bit of a
YouTube interview, And then atthe end of it, we just got
chatting and said, you know,I've been I've been planning
this kind of game, and it justthat's that's kind of that's
that's the start of ofcornucopia, really.
Kevin Horek (10:09):
Okay. So what made you, though, decide to actually
go for it? Was it, like, hisacknowledgment of it, or you
were gonna do that no matterwhat? Or or, like, walk us
through that, and then let'sdive into Konecovis.
Rob Greig (10:24):
Yeah. I was always I mean, I I was fully invested as
in time wise and passion wise inthe blockchain. At that time, I
was fully convinced. I'd neverI'd never discovered really
community on until I got intoblock chain. You know, before
I've been working for myself,and I've been working with other
people, and you'd go about yourown way.
(10:46):
But until I actually gotimmersed in block chain, the the
community element hit me really,really hard. It was so
welcoming, especially being thestart of the project. So I
really wanted to to go all in.And in fact, it's it's what we
did. I gave up my job.
Josh did as well. We self fundedcornucopias from the start, and
we just really poured everythingwe could. There was just 4
(11:09):
cofounders, 2 in America, 2 2 inthe UK. We didn't actually meet
each other face to facephysically for, a good 7 months.
And because because Josh wasalready in the community and I
was already embedded with withinthe community, we we we kind of
naturally had a following, andpeople really liked us and and
(11:31):
and they knew about us.
And and we built a number ofprototypes. We only had a team
of of about 6 people. And, bythe end of the year, we probably
had about 7 or 8 people. Webuilt prototypes for the 1st 13
months. So we we we did ourwhite paper.
We did prototypes to show whatwe could actually do before we
(11:52):
actually did our very first NFTsale, because I think it was it
was really important for us toshow that we could deliver
something rather than just comeout the blocks and just say, you
know, just just give us loads ofmoney and just just put your
trust in those. I think I Ithink, you know, working with
people in the past, people wantto see that you are legit in
(12:13):
this in the space and and thatyou can actually deliver what
what you're going to. And and,obviously, we you know,
everything from there kinda justjust took off, and it's just
been amazing ever since.
Kevin Horek (12:24):
Very cool. So what exactly are you building, and
let's dive into that.
Rob Greig (12:31):
Yeah. I'm I'm in, Konakopias is it's an mmorpg,
web 3. So so it's blockchainbased. And and where the
blockchain comes into it is isparts of the games will be
decentralized. And with with allwith with most games, you know,
you within games, you have youhave your characters, and those
(12:54):
characters have various skins.
You you can have vehicles. Youhave all types of games that are
all kinds of things that havealways been been in games. But
the beauty of of being on theblockchain is you can actually
own these assets. So over theyears, you know, I've I've must
have bought 100 of of skinswithin Fortnite, but I don't own
(13:15):
them. Those are owned by EpicGames.
You know, if if if they turnthem off or or they wanna ban
me, all all that money is kindof just wasted. So so having,
you know, when blockchain camearound and you can realize that
you actually do own your yourown assets, I mean, that that's
I mean, that's a major majorfeature for me. Games have
(13:37):
always had some kind of virtualcurrency in them as well. So
that translates absolutely, youknow, amazing to blockchain as
well because because that couldbe your your your native coin,
your your native token. So but Ithink what one of the biggest
one one of the the most excitingpart, you know, he's he's
(13:57):
working on working on the verythe I suppose the the start
being one of the pioneers in thespace of of this up and coming
industry.
You know, when we started, therethere was very little games that
that were on blockchain.Blockchain is it was more seen
as kind of like the the futureof of DeFi. So having the
challenge of having a build youknow, building something that
(14:20):
could be disruptive in the spacewhere players own their own
assets or but also being builtdifferently. So with traditional
games, triple a games, you know,you would you wouldn't even know
they were being built after thethey'd come out. They'd they'd
have a, like, a multimilliondollar advertising campaign.
(14:41):
You'd see Spider Man 2's here onevery single poster in the land,
and that's how they would buildcommunity either on existing IP
or or they would just blast itout there. So so this you know,
one of the challenges in web 3is actually building your game
really early on and beingimmersive within the community.
(15:01):
And and that for me was was, youknow, it was so it's so exciting
to to see if we could actuallydo that. So so there's lots of
reasons why we why we wantedcommunity involved game, in a
(15:26):
new upcoming exciting space is,yeah, is just too good an
opportunity to miss.
Kevin Horek (15:34):
Okay. So walk us through, like, how does people
actually play this thing?
Rob Greig (15:43):
So so yeah. So it's, so it's an MMORPG. So what we
are doing, we're we are set inthe law is we're in a parallel
universe from from so so it'sbased on based on the Earth. The
Earth has had a calamity.Society has got an advanced
technology background, so we'veactually transcended to to the
(16:07):
sky.
So so so humans live in thesebig floating, bubbles, these
these massive domes. These arethese domes are 8 kilometers by
8 kilometers, so they'reabsolutely massive spaces. And
because we're building themusing UE 5 with all the power of
of nanites and lumens. They lookabsolutely incredible from from
(16:28):
graphics wise.
Kevin Horek (16:30):
Sure.
Rob Greig (16:30):
We we're building 12 different, themed, themed
sectors, we call them. Eachsector has 3 of these huge
worlds. So there'll be 36 ofthese absolutely massive, domes
floating in the sky, and playerswill actually own land plots on
(16:52):
each of these different sectors.So in traditional games, you
will go into a server, you'llhave a session, and you'll all
be going in the same building,and you'll all be on the same
well, that that doesn't happenwith with within our game. The
the space is is persistent.
So whatever's built on your landor your neighbor's land, that
will remain there, and evolveover time. And what we wanted to
(17:14):
do is we we wanted to keep, aconsistency of the game. So all
the artwork, we build ourselvesin house. We've got a team, but
internal team of of 33 at themoment, and there's Oh, wow.
Just over 50, includingcontractors working on the game.
We've got 2 new people startingactually next week. So so so we
(17:35):
build all all the the theassets, the cells. We we do all
our own animations. We have ourown developers, our own
planning, QA. We we we build alot.
So it's an MMORPG. So so you'rewandering around the these these
big districts. You are doingchallenges. You're doing mining,
fishing, logging. You're doingcrafting, gathering various raw
(18:00):
materials, and figuring outrecipes, putting things
together, and and making toolsand and and then going through
through through those differentgame loops.
And then in and amongst that,you are part of a district as
well. So as well as playing asyour own on your own, you're
actually part of a district, soyou're building up your
individual districts, and wehave district versus district
(18:23):
competitions. There's there'svarious tasks that you'd expect
in in kind of like a a a an RPGgame, and you have your own
character. And then dottedamongst that, we have all these,
experiences, kind of minigames.So so one of them is where you
go to a a mega dome, and thisthis mega dome, which is
(18:46):
currently, live at the moment,we call it Caleido Valley.
You wander into into theMegadome. You you work your way
over into the into the racingtrack, and that's where you fly
these really high speed vehiclesthat are actually NFTs. So so
the players own their own NFTs.They go into the game. And if
(19:08):
you if you own, like, a bubblejet, we we call one of them or a
javelin, you will actually beflying your own, your own
vehicle.
And everything you do with thatvehicle is now tracked on the
blockchain forever. So everyrace you'll ever do, every
championship you win, everythingis is tracked there. And via
(19:29):
APIs, we'll make that availableto the public, and people can
build all kinds of services offthe back of it. So it's that's
one of the experiences. In thefuture, we'll have fishing
competitions.
We'll turn these into esports.So we have the back the backdrop
of an MMORPG, community driveneconomy, and and all these other
(19:50):
experiences that come together.So it's it's an ambitious
project, but it's going really,really well.
Kevin Horek (19:55):
That's really cool, especially that you get to keep
this stuff. Right? Cause you're
Rob Greig (19:59):
to
Kevin Horek (19:59):
your point, like, especially if you quit something
or whatever, like it's, it'sgone. Right? Yeah. So walk us
through okay. So, like, how forpeople that maybe don't
understand kind of web 3, theNFT space, what does that kind
of really mean when you say,like, you know, every race is
(20:23):
tracked, they own theirvehicles, that kind of thing?
Rob Greig (20:27):
Yeah. So so in in in web 3, we we we have what what's
called NFTs. So you have youhave a wallet, a a web 3 wallet,
and that's connected to which isis connected to to your
computer. So you usingcryptocurrency, you well, when
(20:48):
various sales are on, you go tothe sales and and sales for
various vehicles or or variousskins. But when you actually
purchase them, instead of thengoing into kind of like a
central database, which whichhappens in in every game, these
now actually sit on ablockchain, which is a
decentralized network that'shosted on a a copy of of of the
(21:13):
blockchain is is is on thousandsand thousands of different PCs
throughout the world, so it cannever go down.
So so you have your your virtualwallet and your assets, your
your your coins or yourvehicles, they all sit there.
And then when you're playing thegame, as you log in to the game,
(21:33):
you connect to your wallet. Soso you you just log in with your
user details, connect yourwallet, and now the game knows
what actual assets you have. Sobecause it's on the blockchain,
and it's awesome, and you ownit, this means that you can sell
your vehicles whenever you wantaway from the game, or buy them
(21:53):
or or trade them or swap them ordo whatever. And the next time
you log in to the game, the gamewill just read your wallet
again, and and and it will justknow some have appeared or
disappeared or or the same thesame.
And then as you're as you'reracing, as the game is as the
game is saving, whether you came1st, 2nd, or 3rd, that is held,
again, in a database, but thatdatabase or or ledger is also
(22:18):
saved on on the blockchainthrough throughout the world.
So, again, that is then actuallystored forever, which is which
is which is crazy. So then whenyou go and sell your your NFT in
the future, you know, that wholehistory goes with it. So you'll
you'll know who's who's owned itin the past, what championship,
what cups, the whole history.Just just like in the real world
(22:40):
when you buy a car and you havehave your whole history of of
everything that's ever happenedto it.
It just goes straight with it,which is, you know, really new
for gaming and, yeah, one ofthe, you know, many innovations
that blockchain and web 3 givesus.
Kevin Horek (22:54):
Sure. So I wanna dive a little bit deeper into
that because tech's kind of beenall doom and gloom, especially
kind of NFTs and everything'skind of and web 3 and
everything's kind of beengetting a bad rap the last
couple years. I think companieslike what you're doing and and
there's a number of othercompanies are actually building
really innovative stuff in thespace. But I just don't think
(23:15):
it's covered enough right now.Right?
Like trying to explain NFTs toeven like non techie friends.
They're just like, it's just animage. And it's like, no, no,
no. It can be so much more thanthat. Right?
And they don't understand. Sowhere are we kind of at and and
what are your predictions andthoughts about the space right
now? Because seems like the hypedied down, but people are
(23:37):
starting to actually buildreally cool innovative stuff in
kind of this space. Do you agreewith that, or what are your
thoughts around that?
Rob Greig (23:44):
Yeah. No. I I do agree with it. I think what what
we've seen on on the previousbull market is there was a lot
of hype around about NFTs, butthose NFTs didn't have any
utility. So they were just aJPEG that that just sat in
somebody's wallet.
But what what we're seeing now,you know, though those or some
some of those projects havedisappeared, but those that have
(24:05):
kept building in the in the bearmarket, you know, they're now 2
or 3 years old. You know, we'reus ourselves, we're we're coming
up to, nearly 3 years in in inJuly. So we've had lots of time
now to to continue to build ourgame, flesh out some of the
components, and we and we stilllaunched our game in August in
(24:27):
in pre alpha. So so, you know,we're not even we're not even
alpha or beta yet. So very,very, extremely, extremely early
in terms of of of game releases.
And now what you can see is theutility of the vehicles. You
know, you're you can actually goand drive your vehicle. You can
(24:48):
put on these various skins. Youyou you you can fly around the
game as well because because ourour vehicles have dual utility.
1 of them is actually racing inin the whole esports.
But then as you're going fromdome to dome doing your
crafting, you need to transportyour goods where you can put
them in the boot or or you canyou can fly people from one dome
(25:10):
to the other, put on your radioas as you go around. So so
having utility, which I think isthe natural evolution obviously
for for NFTs, that for me is areally great, springboard to
show people the actual power ofwhat NFTs can do. They're
they're not just the JPEG. Theythey do actually have utility.
Kevin Horek (25:33):
No. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. So
how do you or plan on monetizingthe platform and the game?
Rob Greig (25:43):
So it's it's very, very symbiotic. So so we will we
obviously will will havevehicles that that we will sell.
You know, so that will raiserevenue for you for the game.
But the whole game is playerdriven economy. So so as players
come into the game and they ownthe land and they're farming,
(26:05):
they're earning, in internalvirtual currency, which they
will be able to then, craftother items, and those items,
then they'll be able to craftinto NFTs.
And then when they craft theminto NFTs, and we and we kind of
call this, build and earn, theynow have something that is
(26:28):
worth, you know, a real realworld money. So they can play
the game, grind the game, andall those hours that they're
putting in, they're actually nowgetting something that they can
extract some value out of thegame and and then go and sell it
on, or they can continue to toplay it and just just keep
grinding and and and buildingmore and more, NFTs for
(26:49):
themselves. So so the so there'slots of there's lots of
opportunities that way. There'sobviously advertising
opportunities with within thegame because our game is is kind
of like a metaverse as as well.There's metaverse elements where
we'll have the real world andand b to b and and web 2, as we
call them, the the traditionalspace.
(27:10):
They will be able to come intoour game, like, Toledo Valley is
Toledo Valley is is the spacewhere our racing esports
happens. So as you enter intoCluedo Valley and and you fly in
the hangar and and you come up,you're you're into this huge,
huge space where we havedifferent vehicle showrooms. So
(27:32):
you can go in there, look at theNFTs. You can look at at our
NFTs have differentmanufacturers, so you can go
into the Bubble Jet store, lookat those flying vehicles. You
can go into the Valley Raceworksstore, look at those.
You can go into into the there'shotels. There will be, shops
where people can go in. So web 2has an opportunity to come in
and get their brand name on onthere. We will have, we will
(27:55):
have stages where where we willhave live music that that
happens within the and and it'sthen the lights come down. All
the neon lights come out atnight, and and it's very much
kind of inspired by the VegasStrip.
So you'll go down there with thecommunity. You remember, you're
all you're all you're all inthere together going to these
various experiences. You'll popoff, go and go flying in the
(28:19):
esports, and then you'll comeback and enjoy some music. And
and hidden within that thatwhole space because we didn't
just want to release kind oflike a in the early days, just a
walking simulator. We we'vebuilt in what we call these
these little hollow caches.
It's kind of a find find andseek. So you've got this huge
space where you're wanderingaround, and we've hidden these a
(28:41):
160 at the moment, the differenthollow caches where you wander
around all the different spacestrying to, find them. There's
common ones, uncommon rarelegendaries, and mythic. So you
have a game within a game.You're you're running to to
various areas, and there'sescape puzzles in there.
You go into rooms. You have tofigure out first of all, you you
get the hollow cache, and thenyou have to figure out how to
(29:03):
get out of these these placesand these compasses and running
around. So so there's there'slots of those elements that are
already in there at the moment.But then when you pair that with
you're also running around withcommunity and you're chatting
with them with with voice andand chat together, suddenly the
game takes on a whole differentarea. You know?
Because I was brought with gameslike Lara Croft, you know, where
(29:24):
you go and solve puzzles and youwander around big open world.
But when you do that with with40 or 50 other people with you
and you get to know them and youyou're chatting to them, that it
takes on a whole different, youknow, type of type of gameplay.
And it's really, really, I Ifind it really, really
addictive. You know, new peoplecome in and then people are
(29:45):
obsessed. Come on, and we'llshow you where your last one is.
And and so in the future, whatwe're currently building at the
moment is the whole tasks systemas well. So we'll be also be
able to drive people around. So,you know, go and collect some
hollow caches. Go go and craftthis. Go and explore this area
and then build something up totogether as the as the community
(30:08):
as as more and more of of thesefeatures expand.
Kevin Horek (30:12):
Very cool. So at some point, are you gonna let
other people kind of build on tothe world and expand? Or is that
kind of just you guys are gonnacontrol all that?
Rob Greig (30:24):
Yes. So so at the moment, what we're doing is
because because these worlds arebit these these worlds are
absolutely huge, and and they'reall built, like I say, hand
built. They're they're notprocedurally generated at all.
Our our developers are planningout the land plots and placing
all the trees down on the plotsand and and building everything
up naturally. So the playerswill go in, and as they're
(30:46):
crafting and and and they'rebuilding up their land plots and
putting the buildings on, youknow, that's one element of the
game.
Another element of the game iswhat we call custom domes. And
the custom domes, again, areNFTs where where players can own
them, They now actually owntheir own dome. So these are
these are smaller domes. Thesecome in 5 different sizes. And
(31:08):
on there, we're giving thembuilding kits where they'll be
able to go in from from a blankcanvas, build whatever they want
in there, and open up their ownexperiences.
So if they want to to do aconcert in there or if they want
to have a shop or if they wantto have a PVP game or if they
want to do them all, they can dothem all in there. We'll give
them the tools and the and theframework to do that, and then
(31:31):
they'll be able to advertisetheir their space within the the
various Toledo Valley games, andwe'll we'll have ways of people
to be able to to travel to theirdifferent domes and play them,
and they'll have a leaderboard.So so so, yeah, the custom side
of it, the the custom domes, itreally expands the game then in
into a whole, you know, othertype of of of gameplay.
Kevin Horek (31:56):
Very cool. And then I'm assuming that if I build a
custom dome, at some point, Icould turn it into an NFT and
potentially sell it to somebodyelse?
Rob Greig (32:03):
Your custom dome is an NFT. Yes. So so
Kevin Horek (32:06):
Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Rob Greig (32:07):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so you bought that custom dome
and you can you can put all theNFTs within that custom domes.
You can build it up into intoyour own business.
You know, build a brand name upfrom scratch.
Kevin Horek (32:18):
That's cool.
Rob Greig (32:19):
When people come in, you can sell tickets,
experiences to come into yourdough, and then you can either
continue that as an ongoing,business, or you can then then
sell that NFT and everythingthat comes with it.
Kevin Horek (32:31):
That's that's very cool. So I'm curious. Is there,
like, like, how do like, or howbig, I guess, is the the game so
far and how many people areplaying? Because from my
understanding, it's Yep. It'squite big already.
Rob Greig (32:50):
So so currently live, we have Cluedo Valley, which is
kinda like this Vegas strip thatbacks onto, the racing the the
racing game. So in the racinggame so this Cluedo Valley
itself is 9 kilometers by 9kilometers. Slightly bigger than
a sector. But these vehicles flyat over a 1000 miles per hour,
(33:11):
so you need a lot of space to tocover them. We have we have 2
tracks.
If you own one of our flyingvehicles, you can come in now,
download the game on onto a PCas long as you've got the
qualifying graphics card, whichis about 30, 60, you can you can
come in and you can test thegame. So, again, different to to
traditional gameplay, which havekind of like closed testing. Our
(33:35):
testing is with any you just ownthe NFT, and you can come in.
You can you can start testingearly on.
Kevin Horek (33:41):
That's cool.
Rob Greig (33:42):
We have we have over 10,000 NFTs that have the
ability to to come in and test.You know, some people have more
than 1. But, yeah, anyone cancome in at any one point. We we
have, over over a 100 peoplethat that are testing the the
game daily. We we but we're veryearly in terms of
(34:03):
infrastructure.
We're we're ready to roll outthe next next phase soon. But at
the moment, we only have 2servers. So we have a European
server and an American server.We don't currently have a
character creator yet. That'scoming out in the next month or
so.
So when you load into the game,we have a choice of 29 different
(34:24):
prebuilt avatars. So you can gothrough them. They're some of
them are mining kits on somelogin. You can go in go into the
game and wander around. We havea a little mini soccer game in
there as well.
That's very, very early. But theracing game itself is is is
really quite advanced. I wouldsay if you come in, it's really,
really exhilarating, and we'vejust done a new update now. I
(34:48):
suppose we've added another,flying vehicle in which which
we'll we'll be up for sale in, aa few weeks from now. So so
that's Cluedo Valley.
That's that's the test kind ofkind of like the first world.
Sure. But but players don't ownany land in that. So we because
we're building agile, we wantedto kind of have a smaller
(35:10):
environment, because althoughthe although it's massive for
racing, the actual kind of,like, the the Vegas strip is is
relatively small. Then we'vealso built, in the first sector,
the the first sector is calledSolace.
Now Solace will be built, willwill contain 3 large worlds. So
(35:32):
Solace 1, 2, and 3. All three ofthose will be 8 kilometers by 8
kilometers. Solis 1 is nowcomplete in terms of artwork,
land plots, number of passes,and we're just going through the
the final QA soon. So prettysoon, we will we will release
Solis 1 to our testers.
(35:54):
Okay. And then thousands ofpeople will be able to really
see what we're building becausethis thing is absolutely
enormous. It takes about betweenwell, as the float, the crow
flies, probably half an hour towalk from one side of Solis to
the other. But there's massivemountains, there's hills,
there's thick forests. So thereis days and days and hours and
(36:17):
hours of exploration just tohappen in in in Solace, which is
kind of like Colorado.
It has all these these forestsand rivers, and and and,
eventually, this year, we willadd more and more features into
that. So you'll be able to tonot only go exploring, you'll be
able to do camping in there,build up your land plots. We
(36:38):
will have creatures, so there'llbe bears running in there.
There's definitely elements ofdanger within the MMO. There'll
be fishing spots in there whereyou'll be able to go in and do
fishing.
So SOLACE 1 is almost ready torelease. SOLACE 2 is, I would
say, 3 quarters of the waythrough. We we spent a lot of
time on SOLACE 1, making sureall our procedures are correct.
(37:02):
We, you know, we spent over ayear perfecting everything, how
we're gonna build it, how wewant the different elements to
work so that when we come tosort the other solaces and and
the other 2 zones that arecoming this year as well, We we
now have a pretty fast pipeline.So Solis 2 is almost ready to to
to go into test.
(37:24):
Solis 3, we've broken groundinto Solis 3. So I think Solis
1, 2, and 3 will will all 3 willbe released, in the next couple
of months. We're then working onEsperanza, which is the second
the second zone. Again, that's 3huge world. That's more like a a
a western barren kind ofartwork.
(37:51):
Again, players will be able toto own, land in in there. We've
sold land in in in all all nineof these sectors that it was
incredible that they they allsold with within minutes, which
was just absolutely incredible.Just as we were coming into into
the bear market that they justthey just kind of flew. And then
the third one is more like anoriental style, that's called
(38:14):
Fortune. So all 9 of these willbe these massive worlds will be
released, this world, alongsideCluedo Valley, which is already
there.
So we'll have 10 huge domes. Wewill also have the, the
activities and the progressionsystem built in there. We'll
have the character creator,which is coming very, very soon.
(38:37):
We will have fishing. We we havemining.
We did a demo last year in Vegasof what mining looks like. So so
we had lots of people runningaround that on a on 2
conferences. So that's excitingwhen that comes in because
people will then be able to gointo Solace, go down into the
depths, do some mining for someof those raw materials. And and,
(38:58):
again, there will be lots ofelements of of danger in there
as as people found out when theywere in Vegas. And that's kind
of this year.
So it's so so there's lots lotsto come this year and, lots more
to come.
Kevin Horek (39:15):
Very cool. So you've obviously been in this
space a long time. What advicedo you give to people that are
looking to maybe build in theNFT, Web 3 kind of this new
version of the Internet andnatural kind of progression?
Rob Greig (39:29):
Yeah. I mean, I I think one of the one of the one
of the the the, I suppose, thethe lessons that that we learned
and and and helped us is notjust to jump straight in. You
you need to you need to to learnthe the different spaces of of
(39:51):
not just from a technology pointof view, but from a community.
You know, really understand howto build a a a community, get
involved with with otherprojects. If you are kind of on
your own, we only started withwith 4 of us, you know, don't
don't let that the this thispage.
(40:12):
You know? Work with otherpeople. Ask you know, get with
like minded people. Startprojects together, and and just
really, really jump in, kindkind of learn. If you follow the
same route that that we did of,you know, building the
prototypes first, make sure thatyou can actually deliver, Then
(40:37):
when you go to have your NFTsales, you know, you will have
confidence that that you'll do.
I've seen, you know, so manyprojects that because they're
they're kind of techies, theystart off with the techy route,
then you you get to the partwhere, yeah, we're we're gonna
build this. We have this reallyexciting and and then you sell
the NFTs. Maybe the NFTs don'tsell out or maybe they do sell
(41:00):
out. Both of those give youissues, because one one of them
now how you don't have enoughmoney to complete your project,
and the other one, you do havethe money, but how do I actually
get the project? Because nowyou've got a community that's
when, when, when, you you know,the web 3 are like.
Kevin Horek (41:15):
Oh, yeah.
Rob Greig (41:15):
But one of one of the I suppose going back to what
what what we said a while ago,you know, what made me actually
pull the trigger and want tojump in and give my job up and
and go on this is is becausewhen I met Josh and and Jeff,
you know, Ant and myself, youknow, we're developers. We're
(41:36):
testers. Jeff in America has gota security side to him. He's a
he's a developer as well. He'she's built a company and and
sold that onto.
Josh is is is an entrepreneur aswell. He's got a huge marketing
background, huge businessbuilding businesses. So all our
skills actually work together.So we weren't just tech, tech
(41:57):
people. This has been some ofthe failings in the past when
when I stopped and startedvarious companies.
I got them so far. I could buildthe stuff. We could test the
stuff. We could have a greatproject. We've got no idea how
to actually get it out and andand sell it to other people and
see them.
So you have all this. You haveyou have to remember that
(42:17):
building an NFT project with thecommunity, when you take money
off people, you are now actuallya business, and you have to
treat that like a business. Youknow, you don't wanna run out of
money. You need to pay yourtaxes. You need to, have HR,
eventually.
You know, you have to have aplan of how you're gonna build
your company up, or if thingskind of go sour, what is gonna
(42:43):
be your backup plan? So so,yeah, don't just think I'm just
gonna go out there, and we'rewe're gonna sell NFTs. We're all
gonna have Lambos, and it'sgonna be great, and the
community are gonna love us. Youyou have to actually, you know,
have a plan of of how you'regonna deliver, how you're gonna
sustain it, and then treat thatlike a like a business. And and
that's, for me, is is an anotherreason why I really enjoy this
(43:06):
space because I I really doenjoy building teams.
I'm I'm I'm watching kind ofyoung people and and more
experienced people kind of worktogether with and and literally
just, you know, just build andbuild and build, but also build
a community within ourselves.You know? So, yeah, NFTs are a
(43:27):
serious you can just dabble. Ifyou just wanna dabble and and
you don't obviously, I'm talkingabout building a game. Yeah.
If if you just wanna dabble andyou just want the utility of, a
a PFP, for example, then, yeah,you can just you can just sell
them as NFTs. But, yeah, if youif you want if you wanna build a
game, definitely treat it like abusiness.
Kevin Horek (43:50):
No. I I think that's really good advice. So
you said you have 4 cofounders.Yes. How like, it's hard enough
to find 1, never mind more than1.
So how did you find yourcofounders and what advice do
you give to people to actuallyfind them? Because that's
really, really challenging in myopinion.
Rob Greig (44:09):
Yeah. Well, I I met Anthony at school. So, you know,
so so that is with withinbusiness, and I and I found this
over the years, you know, youcan have the the best product,
you can have absolutelyeverything, But if you don't
have solid foundations, if yourfounders don't know each other
(44:30):
or don't get on or or they haveego problems, you know, when you
do hit some some success or inin the bad times, you know,
things will fall apart. So sohaving a a solid partner like
Anthony, you know, I met him at12, so I've now known him over
35 years. We've settled previousbusinesses together.
(44:52):
So so we we have always startedour businesses together. So we
knew we, you know, we had asolid foundation. When I met
Josh, you know, Josh had knownJeff similar. You know, he'd
he'd known him for for decadesas well. Definitely a risk
because because I'd never metJosh or Jeff before, and they'd
never met us before.
You You know? So so we spenttime, but I also knew of Josh's,
(45:18):
reputation with within theindustry. So so that's important
as well. You know, if people dohave a have a history in the
space, you know, you do need todo your your due diligence, and
you need to work with them. Evenlike I say, we we built our
prototype.
We didn't sell a thing for 13months. Now that's kind of like
(45:39):
a honeymoon period. Are we gonnaget on together? Are we gonna be
at work together every singleday remote? Are we gonna be able
to make do we trust each other?
You know, you can't kind of dothat from from day 1. You have
to build that up over time. Andthen only when you know it's
gonna work. I mean, we'd alreadykind of gone in financially. So
(46:02):
so so there was already kind ofrisk.
But but, yeah, in building upthat, my best advice, you know,
go with people that that you cantrust or have a reputation and
that, that reputation they don'twant to lose because it is, it
is really, really difficult.But, yeah, try not to run out of
money and and try not to fallout with your founders. It's
(46:25):
it's it's it's a lot harder, youknow, easier said than done.
Kevin Horek (46:30):
Yeah. No. That's fair. We're we're kind of coming
to the end but is there anyother advice you'd like to pass
on to people that maybe you wishyou knew earlier on in your
career or just any other kind offinal thoughts?
Rob Greig (46:42):
Earlier in my career, you know, as you go as you go
through from various jobs tojobs, you you you are working
with different people. You youare learning different skills,
and, you know, some of them workout, some of them failures. But
failures, you know, you canlearn a lot from from failing,
and that can then lead on to thenext one. When you're kind of
(47:04):
young, you you know, you've gotmore to you you you're probably
living at home. You can take alittle bit more risks.
You know? But, don't go all inon things. Like I say, as I've
been building all my businessesup, eve even, you know, when I
was working for, for these othercompanies, I always had a side
hustle. So the side hustle wasalways something really
(47:25):
interesting. You know, don'tdon't jump in.
Don't give up your day job untilyou kind of have a some finances
in place. You have that backupplan. And, you know, that that's
probably been the the good wayfor me. I've been able to
scratch the itch over the yearsof working on my own projects
while still having, you know, afull time job to help help me
(47:46):
support through that. Becausewhen you do go all in, you
literally are all in, you know,the the pressure's on yourself.
You know, at the moment, Alex,we have we have 50 people. So
we're responsible now for 50different families, and that
would be a nightmare. But youyou can't build that up from day
1. It took us it took us a good3 years to get to that position.
(48:07):
But those first that first year,you know, that's that's the
that's one of the hardest parts,starting a company from scratch.
That's where you're taking a bigrisk but but you
Kevin Horek (48:18):
Yeah.
Rob Greig (48:18):
You need you need to kind of not do too many big
risks at the same time. So soso, yeah, figure out who you
wanna work with, have a trialperiod, but at the same time,
keep your full time job at the,at the back. But but,
eventually, if it does work outand you manage to go kind of all
(48:39):
in and start your own companyand you and and you get to, you
know, 3 years, it's it's such anamazing position. And and we've
not even started now. We we, youknow, the the game is is really,
really early.
Where we're gonna be in 3, 4, 5years from now is is just it's
just so exciting. And and thespace itself, it just seems to
(49:02):
be seems to be warming up aswell. We're we're rip you know,
we are we're disrupting anentire industry.
Kevin Horek (49:10):
A 100%. That's that's very cool, man. Well, how
about we close the show withmentioning where people can get
more information about yourself,the game, and any other links
you wanna mention?
Rob Greig (49:20):
Yes. We have, there's there's a couple of of things.
Our website is cornucopius.io.So that's cornucopiowithans dot
I o. We're on Twitter,cornucopius game.
We also have, what we built fromthe start is is we built our own
what we call a copy wiki. So Soso that's over 400 pages of our
(49:41):
history, the lore, the game, theNFTs, everything you you want to
know. That's onKopiWiki.conocopius. Io. And,
obviously, we have Discord.
That this our Discord is is thefirst place to go on to our
website, find our Discord, goand say hello, and you will meet
the the friendliest people inDiscord that will that will help
(50:04):
you. They will show you aroundthe game. They'll talk about
NFTs. They'll explain everythingfrom you. And then in the
future, you know, Conocoapiuswill be free to play.
So so you don't actually need toto have an NFT to play the game.
You just need an NFT at themoment just just while we're
going through through thetesting phase.
Kevin Horek (50:23):
No. Makes a lot of sense. Well, Rob, I really
appreciate you taking the timeout of your day to be on the
show, and I look to keeping intouch with you and have a good
rest of your day.
Rob Greig (50:30):
Yep. You too. Thank you.
Kevin Horek (50:32):
Thank you. K. Bye.
Intro / Outro (50:35):
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Welcome to Building the Future, hosted by
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(00:22):
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Kevin Horek (00:30):
Welcome back to the show. Today, we have Rob Greggs,
the cofounder and co CEO ofCornucopias. Rob, welcome to the
show.
Rob Greig (00:37):
Yeah. Hello. Thanks for having me. Yeah. I'm excited
to have
Kevin Horek (00:40):
you on the show. I I think what you guys are
building is really innovativeand cool. But maybe before we
get into all that, let's get toknow you a little bit better and
start off with where you grewup.
Rob Greig (00:51):
Oh, yeah. Sure. I I grew up in Manchester, which is
in, the north of England in theUK. Manchester is famous for
music, arts, and football or orsoccer, as the Americans would
say. Sure.
It was in in the early years, II lived quite a poor
neighborhood, but I, you know, Ididn't I didn't really know
(01:11):
exactly. I played a lot offootball with, with my brothers,
and, was my mom and dad. Theywere tough, hardworking, working
class Northerners, parents,worked a few jobs to provide
everything they could for thechildren. We had, like, a
caravan on a holiday camp inthe, near near the coast of
(01:33):
Wales. So so every weekend, wewould we would go to this
campsite.
And I suppose that's where Ikind of first discovered the
video arcade machines back inthe eighties, like Ghost and
Goblins and Out Run, BubbleBobble, Double Dragon, or some
some amaze amazing games. And Iwas absolutely obsessed with
games. And and then when homecomputers came out, you know, I
(01:54):
had every single console I Icould think of, you know, the
Atari 2,600, Amstrad, Commodore64, Miga ST. And then I had the
ZX Spectrum when I was about 12.Sure.
And that that was probably thecomputer that eventually had set
me on a path to becoming aprogrammer, although I didn't
(02:15):
know that at the time. Do youwant me to carry on?
Kevin Horek (02:19):
Yeah. Sure. No. This is awesome. Keep going.
Rob Greig (02:21):
Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, I suppose from the early
eighties, I I I started readingthe series of these role playing
adventure books
Kevin Horek (02:29):
written
Rob Greig (02:30):
by Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson. I don't know
if you've then you've seen thethe kind of choose your own
adventure. So you'd sit downwith a pen and paper, and you'd
read the story and be givenoptions. Do you wanna climb the
mountain, go to this page, or doyou wanna go to the village and
and you'd literally open? So,you know, you'd fight mo
monsters and roll dice.
And and what I I was justabsolutely fascinated with this,
(02:53):
and I would I would kind ofwrite my own little adventures
and then try and program them onthe spectrum. And I I I was I
was just, you know, just alittle geek back in those days.
I went to a grammar school,which was a bit of a nightmare
because I had to take 3 busesand a train, College and
university in Manchester. Livingat home still. I never I never
(03:16):
moved away from home till lateron, but I was always working.
Always were obsessed with withworking. And then when I left
university
Kevin Horek (03:26):
So sorry to cut you off. What did you take in
university and why?
Rob Greig (03:30):
Yeah. So at university, I took, information
systems. So I I was I justwanted to continue college, I I
I I discovered at collegeprogramming. Although I I've
been a programmer since I was12, I never actually knew it was
a thing. And then I went intocollege, and I learned about
(03:51):
databases, and it was it was anactual proper job.
It was like, this is this isincredible. So I continued that
to university. I did 4 years atuniversity. And one of those
years was like a year off. Iactually managed to to go down
south, and work for IBM for ayear.
You know, IBM back in back inthe nineties was was massive,
(04:11):
and that that was a real, realeye opener, completely different
from anything that I'd I'd beenused to before. So I left
university, again moved downsouth, and I began working for
this really large, electricityutility company. So I had a few
years of corporate experience,And that was that was
(04:35):
completely, completely differentworld from from the one that
that I knew up north. And, youknow, I enjoy being surrounded
by these these older, smartlydressed, clever people, but it
frustrated the life out of methat all they wanted to do all
day was drink coffee and havemeetings. And all I wanted to do
(04:56):
was was was just learn learnabout databases, write code.
You know? I I was obsessed. Soit it it it was bizarre. But so
Kevin Horek (05:06):
it Well, I get that. I get that. I don't think
that's bizarre at all.
Rob Greig (05:11):
It it it was it was honestly, it was surrounded by
so many contractors becausenobody actually lived in kind of
Swindon. People moved in. So soso I got a first taste of, you
know, what contractors concontractors did. I suppose, you
know, they'd earn loads ofmoney, but they didn't do any
work, which was I like the ideaof earning lots of money, but I
didn't like the idea of of notof not not doing any work. But
(05:34):
Yeah.
Through one of thesecontractors, I actually started
writing some software for abaking company in London. So I
was working during the day, andthen in the evening, you know, I
was programming on the weekend.So so that was kind of my first,
I I suppose, my aunt where myentrepreneurial kind of kind of
life began being surrounded. I'mI'm being in that world. And
(05:56):
then then after a few years ofthat corporate life, I sold my
house, moved back up north,lived off the profits for a few
years while I set up my own myvery first company and went into
partnership with my best friendfrom school who is actually also
a a founder of of Conocoapius atthe moment.
(06:17):
And, you know, we built up acompany in the real estate
industry. I developed thesoftware. He he would be testing
it. We wrote everything from 360degree tours of of houses, CRMs,
data mining applications. Andthen we sold that business
actually in 2007 just before thehousing crisis, to, one of the
(06:42):
largest real estates companiesin the UK.
So so that that was very, verylucky. I suppose from then on, I
had a number of long termcontracts, developing systems,
and eventually moving in intokind of business analysis, which
was was really natural because Ibecause I had kinda like the
corporate background of workingwith different diverse people. I
(07:05):
was also a programmer. I could Iwould I would felt really
natural talking to developers,but kind of translating their
speak in into into the corporateworld. So so that that was a
really natural transition, lateron in my career.
And, yeah, in the background ofkind of contracting, I've always
(07:26):
had some kind of a side hustleworking on bleeding edge, you
know, technology because Ialways always obsessed with
wanting to work for myself. So Iwas working with SMS, ZigBee
Bluetooth, and then thateventually led me to blockchain
back in 2017. That kind ofbrings us up till today to maybe
(07:46):
the last 5 years.
Kevin Horek (07:48):
No. That's cool, man. So what got you kind of
passionate about the blockchainand web 3? And then let's dive
into what you're building today.
Rob Greig (08:01):
Yeah. So so so yeah. So 2017 came around. Blockchain
was was all brand new. We werecoming towards, I suppose, the
the the top of of of that thatbull cycle.
So it was everywhere. And, thatkind of died off then, but I now
I discovered Web 3. I earlyblockchain was Bitcoin,
(08:22):
Ethereum, and Cardano and and afew others, XRP. So so I I
stayed kind of in the space,trying to absorb as much as we,
as I could. And then in 2020, Ithink it was summer of 2020, I
saw kind of like an advert forfor software developers,
community software developers tostart building open source
(08:45):
infrastructure on the Cardanoblockchain.
So I was still working a fulltime job at the time, but I was
one of the original 50 peoplethat was invited to to start
project catalyst, which wasreally, really exciting at the
time. And then from then so soproject catalyst is like a
(09:05):
community funding where you puta submission in and you'd go
through various and if you gotfunds, you then then build your
software. And then fund 3, I hadone of my projects funded. And
at the time, Charles Hoskinson,he was the the CEO of of
Cardano. He was reading out allall the the various winners.
(09:26):
When he got to my project, hegoes, oh, oh, yeah.
Opensource.net. We we need that.And and so so he just kind of
added something different thanhe did to other projects. And
then at the time, Josh Jones,the the other co CEO of
Cornucopias, he was running, hishis own YouTube channel, and and
he saw Charles say we need that.
(09:47):
And he and he was interested inwhy why Charles would remark on
on my project. He kind of lookedme up. We we had a bit of a
YouTube interview, And then atthe end of it, we just got
chatting and said, you know,I've been I've been planning
this kind of game, and it justthat's that's kind of that's
that's the start of ofcornucopia, really.
Kevin Horek (10:09):
Okay. So what made you, though, decide to actually
go for it? Was it, like, hisacknowledgment of it, or you
were gonna do that no matterwhat? Or or, like, walk us
through that, and then let'sdive into Konecovis.
Rob Greig (10:24):
Yeah. I was always I mean, I I was fully invested as
in time wise and passion wise inthe blockchain. At that time, I
was fully convinced. I'd neverI'd never discovered really
community on until I got intoblock chain. You know, before
I've been working for myself,and I've been working with other
people, and you'd go about yourown way.
(10:46):
But until I actually gotimmersed in block chain, the the
community element hit me really,really hard. It was so
welcoming, especially being thestart of the project. So I
really wanted to to go all in.And in fact, it's it's what we
did. I gave up my job.
Josh did as well. We self fundedcornucopias from the start, and
we just really poured everythingwe could. There was just 4
(11:09):
cofounders, 2 in America, 2 2 inthe UK. We didn't actually meet
each other face to facephysically for, a good 7 months.
And because because Josh wasalready in the community and I
was already embedded with withinthe community, we we we kind of
naturally had a following, andpeople really liked us and and
(11:31):
and they knew about us.
And and we built a number ofprototypes. We only had a team
of of about 6 people. And, bythe end of the year, we probably
had about 7 or 8 people. Webuilt prototypes for the 1st 13
months. So we we we did ourwhite paper.
We did prototypes to show whatwe could actually do before we
(11:52):
actually did our very first NFTsale, because I think it was it
was really important for us toshow that we could deliver
something rather than just comeout the blocks and just say, you
know, just just give us loads ofmoney and just just put your
trust in those. I think I Ithink, you know, working with
people in the past, people wantto see that you are legit in
(12:13):
this in the space and and thatyou can actually deliver what
what you're going to. And and,obviously, we you know,
everything from there kinda justjust took off, and it's just
been amazing ever since.
Kevin Horek (12:24):
Very cool. So what exactly are you building, and
let's dive into that.
Rob Greig (12:31):
Yeah. I'm I'm in, Konakopias is it's an mmorpg,
web 3. So so it's blockchainbased. And and where the
blockchain comes into it is isparts of the games will be
decentralized. And with with allwith with most games, you know,
you within games, you have youhave your characters, and those
(12:54):
characters have various skins.
You you can have vehicles. Youhave all types of games that are
all kinds of things that havealways been been in games. But
the beauty of of being on theblockchain is you can actually
own these assets. So over theyears, you know, I've I've must
have bought 100 of of skinswithin Fortnite, but I don't own
(13:15):
them. Those are owned by EpicGames.
You know, if if if they turnthem off or or they wanna ban
me, all all that money is kindof just wasted. So so having,
you know, when blockchain camearound and you can realize that
you actually do own your yourown assets, I mean, that that's
I mean, that's a major majorfeature for me. Games have
(13:37):
always had some kind of virtualcurrency in them as well. So
that translates absolutely, youknow, amazing to blockchain as
well because because that couldbe your your your native coin,
your your native token. So but Ithink what one of the biggest
one one of the the most excitingpart, you know, he's he's
(13:57):
working on working on the verythe I suppose the the start
being one of the pioneers in thespace of of this up and coming
industry.
You know, when we started, therethere was very little games that
that were on blockchain.Blockchain is it was more seen
as kind of like the the futureof of DeFi. So having the
challenge of having a build youknow, building something that
(14:20):
could be disruptive in the spacewhere players own their own
assets or but also being builtdifferently. So with traditional
games, triple a games, you know,you would you wouldn't even know
they were being built after thethey'd come out. They'd they'd
have a, like, a multimilliondollar advertising campaign.
(14:41):
You'd see Spider Man 2's here onevery single poster in the land,
and that's how they would buildcommunity either on existing IP
or or they would just blast itout there. So so this you know,
one of the challenges in web 3is actually building your game
really early on and beingimmersive within the community.
(15:01):
And and that for me was was, youknow, it was so it's so exciting
to to see if we could actuallydo that. So so there's lots of
reasons why we why we wantedcommunity involved game, in a
(15:26):
new upcoming exciting space is,yeah, is just too good an
opportunity to miss.
Kevin Horek (15:34):
Okay. So walk us through, like, how does people
actually play this thing?
Rob Greig (15:43):
So so yeah. So it's, so it's an MMORPG. So what we
are doing, we're we are set inthe law is we're in a parallel
universe from from so so it'sbased on based on the Earth. The
Earth has had a calamity.Society has got an advanced
technology background, so we'veactually transcended to to the
(16:07):
sky.
So so so humans live in thesebig floating, bubbles, these
these massive domes. These arethese domes are 8 kilometers by
8 kilometers, so they'reabsolutely massive spaces. And
because we're building themusing UE 5 with all the power of
of nanites and lumens. They lookabsolutely incredible from from
(16:28):
graphics wise.
Kevin Horek (16:30):
Sure.
Rob Greig (16:30):
We we're building 12 different, themed, themed
sectors, we call them. Eachsector has 3 of these huge
worlds. So there'll be 36 ofthese absolutely massive, domes
floating in the sky, and playerswill actually own land plots on
(16:52):
each of these different sectors.So in traditional games, you
will go into a server, you'llhave a session, and you'll all
be going in the same building,and you'll all be on the same
well, that that doesn't happenwith with within our game. The
the space is is persistent.
So whatever's built on your landor your neighbor's land, that
will remain there, and evolveover time. And what we wanted to
(17:14):
do is we we wanted to keep, aconsistency of the game. So all
the artwork, we build ourselvesin house. We've got a team, but
internal team of of 33 at themoment, and there's Oh, wow.
Just over 50, includingcontractors working on the game.
We've got 2 new people startingactually next week. So so so we
(17:35):
build all all the the theassets, the cells. We we do all
our own animations. We have ourown developers, our own
planning, QA. We we we build alot.
So it's an MMORPG. So so you'rewandering around the these these
big districts. You are doingchallenges. You're doing mining,
fishing, logging. You're doingcrafting, gathering various raw
(18:00):
materials, and figuring outrecipes, putting things
together, and and making toolsand and and then going through
through through those differentgame loops.
And then in and amongst that,you are part of a district as
well. So as well as playing asyour own on your own, you're
actually part of a district, soyou're building up your
individual districts, and wehave district versus district
(18:23):
competitions. There's there'svarious tasks that you'd expect
in in kind of like a a a an RPGgame, and you have your own
character. And then dottedamongst that, we have all these,
experiences, kind of minigames.So so one of them is where you
go to a a mega dome, and thisthis mega dome, which is
(18:46):
currently, live at the moment,we call it Caleido Valley.
You wander into into theMegadome. You you work your way
over into the into the racingtrack, and that's where you fly
these really high speed vehiclesthat are actually NFTs. So so
the players own their own NFTs.They go into the game. And if
(19:08):
you if you own, like, a bubblejet, we we call one of them or a
javelin, you will actually beflying your own, your own
vehicle.
And everything you do with thatvehicle is now tracked on the
blockchain forever. So everyrace you'll ever do, every
championship you win, everythingis is tracked there. And via
(19:29):
APIs, we'll make that availableto the public, and people can
build all kinds of services offthe back of it. So it's that's
one of the experiences. In thefuture, we'll have fishing
competitions.
We'll turn these into esports.So we have the back the backdrop
of an MMORPG, community driveneconomy, and and all these other
(19:50):
experiences that come together.So it's it's an ambitious
project, but it's going really,really well.
Kevin Horek (19:55):
That's really cool, especially that you get to keep
this stuff. Right? Cause you're
Rob Greig (19:59):
to
Kevin Horek (19:59):
your point, like, especially if you quit something
or whatever, like it's, it'sgone. Right? Yeah. So walk us
through okay. So, like, how forpeople that maybe don't
understand kind of web 3, theNFT space, what does that kind
of really mean when you say,like, you know, every race is
(20:23):
tracked, they own theirvehicles, that kind of thing?
Rob Greig (20:27):
Yeah. So so in in in web 3, we we we have what what's
called NFTs. So you have youhave a wallet, a a web 3 wallet,
and that's connected to which isis connected to to your
computer. So you usingcryptocurrency, you well, when
(20:48):
various sales are on, you go tothe sales and and sales for
various vehicles or or variousskins. But when you actually
purchase them, instead of thengoing into kind of like a
central database, which whichhappens in in every game, these
now actually sit on ablockchain, which is a
decentralized network that'shosted on a a copy of of of the
(21:13):
blockchain is is is on thousandsand thousands of different PCs
throughout the world, so it cannever go down.
So so you have your your virtualwallet and your assets, your
your your coins or yourvehicles, they all sit there.
And then when you're playing thegame, as you log in to the game,
(21:33):
you connect to your wallet. Soso you you just log in with your
user details, connect yourwallet, and now the game knows
what actual assets you have. Sobecause it's on the blockchain,
and it's awesome, and you ownit, this means that you can sell
your vehicles whenever you wantaway from the game, or buy them
(21:53):
or or trade them or swap them ordo whatever. And the next time
you log in to the game, the gamewill just read your wallet
again, and and and it will justknow some have appeared or
disappeared or or the same thesame.
And then as you're as you'reracing, as the game is as the
game is saving, whether you came1st, 2nd, or 3rd, that is held,
again, in a database, but thatdatabase or or ledger is also
(22:18):
saved on on the blockchainthrough throughout the world.
So, again, that is then actuallystored forever, which is which
is which is crazy. So then whenyou go and sell your your NFT in
the future, you know, that wholehistory goes with it. So you'll
you'll know who's who's owned itin the past, what championship,
what cups, the whole history.Just just like in the real world
(22:40):
when you buy a car and you havehave your whole history of of
everything that's ever happenedto it.
It just goes straight with it,which is, you know, really new
for gaming and, yeah, one ofthe, you know, many innovations
that blockchain and web 3 givesus.
Kevin Horek (22:54):
Sure. So I wanna dive a little bit deeper into
that because tech's kind of beenall doom and gloom, especially
kind of NFTs and everything'skind of and web 3 and
everything's kind of beengetting a bad rap the last
couple years. I think companieslike what you're doing and and
there's a number of othercompanies are actually building
really innovative stuff in thespace. But I just don't think
(23:15):
it's covered enough right now.Right?
Like trying to explain NFTs toeven like non techie friends.
They're just like, it's just animage. And it's like, no, no,
no. It can be so much more thanthat. Right?
And they don't understand. Sowhere are we kind of at and and
what are your predictions andthoughts about the space right
now? Because seems like the hypedied down, but people are
(23:37):
starting to actually buildreally cool innovative stuff in
kind of this space. Do you agreewith that, or what are your
thoughts around that?
Rob Greig (23:44):
Yeah. No. I I do agree with it. I think what what
we've seen on on the previousbull market is there was a lot
of hype around about NFTs, butthose NFTs didn't have any
utility. So they were just aJPEG that that just sat in
somebody's wallet.
But what what we're seeing now,you know, though those or some
some of those projects havedisappeared, but those that have
(24:05):
kept building in the in the bearmarket, you know, they're now 2
or 3 years old. You know, we'reus ourselves, we're we're coming
up to, nearly 3 years in in inJuly. So we've had lots of time
now to to continue to build ourgame, flesh out some of the
components, and we and we stilllaunched our game in August in
(24:27):
in pre alpha. So so, you know,we're not even we're not even
alpha or beta yet. So very,very, extremely, extremely early
in terms of of of game releases.
And now what you can see is theutility of the vehicles. You
know, you're you can actually goand drive your vehicle. You can
(24:48):
put on these various skins. Youyou you you can fly around the
game as well because because ourour vehicles have dual utility.
1 of them is actually racing inin the whole esports.
But then as you're going fromdome to dome doing your
crafting, you need to transportyour goods where you can put
them in the boot or or you canyou can fly people from one dome
(25:10):
to the other, put on your radioas as you go around. So so
having utility, which I think isthe natural evolution obviously
for for NFTs, that for me is areally great, springboard to
show people the actual power ofwhat NFTs can do. They're
they're not just the JPEG. Theythey do actually have utility.
Kevin Horek (25:33):
No. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. So
how do you or plan on monetizingthe platform and the game?
Rob Greig (25:43):
So it's it's very, very symbiotic. So so we will we
obviously will will havevehicles that that we will sell.
You know, so that will raiserevenue for you for the game.
But the whole game is playerdriven economy. So so as players
come into the game and they ownthe land and they're farming,
(26:05):
they're earning, in internalvirtual currency, which they
will be able to then, craftother items, and those items,
then they'll be able to craftinto NFTs.
And then when they craft theminto NFTs, and we and we kind of
call this, build and earn, theynow have something that is
(26:28):
worth, you know, a real realworld money. So they can play
the game, grind the game, andall those hours that they're
putting in, they're actually nowgetting something that they can
extract some value out of thegame and and then go and sell it
on, or they can continue to toplay it and just just keep
grinding and and and buildingmore and more, NFTs for
(26:49):
themselves. So so the so there'slots of there's lots of
opportunities that way. There'sobviously advertising
opportunities with within thegame because our game is is kind
of like a metaverse as as well.There's metaverse elements where
we'll have the real world andand b to b and and web 2, as we
call them, the the traditionalspace.
(27:10):
They will be able to come intoour game, like, Toledo Valley is
Toledo Valley is is the spacewhere our racing esports
happens. So as you enter intoCluedo Valley and and you fly in
the hangar and and you come up,you're you're into this huge,
huge space where we havedifferent vehicle showrooms. So
(27:32):
you can go in there, look at theNFTs. You can look at at our
NFTs have differentmanufacturers, so you can go
into the Bubble Jet store, lookat those flying vehicles. You
can go into the Valley Raceworksstore, look at those.
You can go into into the there'shotels. There will be, shops
where people can go in. So web 2has an opportunity to come in
and get their brand name on onthere. We will have, we will
(27:55):
have stages where where we willhave live music that that
happens within the and and it'sthen the lights come down. All
the neon lights come out atnight, and and it's very much
kind of inspired by the VegasStrip.
So you'll go down there with thecommunity. You remember, you're
all you're all you're all inthere together going to these
various experiences. You'll popoff, go and go flying in the
(28:19):
esports, and then you'll comeback and enjoy some music. And
and hidden within that thatwhole space because we didn't
just want to release kind oflike a in the early days, just a
walking simulator. We we'vebuilt in what we call these
these little hollow caches.
It's kind of a find find andseek. So you've got this huge
space where you're wanderingaround, and we've hidden these a
(28:41):
160 at the moment, the differenthollow caches where you wander
around all the different spacestrying to, find them. There's
common ones, uncommon rarelegendaries, and mythic. So you
have a game within a game.You're you're running to to
various areas, and there'sescape puzzles in there.
You go into rooms. You have tofigure out first of all, you you
get the hollow cache, and thenyou have to figure out how to
(29:03):
get out of these these placesand these compasses and running
around. So so there's there'slots of those elements that are
already in there at the moment.But then when you pair that with
you're also running around withcommunity and you're chatting
with them with with voice andand chat together, suddenly the
game takes on a whole differentarea. You know?
Because I was brought with gameslike Lara Croft, you know, where
(29:24):
you go and solve puzzles and youwander around big open world.
But when you do that with with40 or 50 other people with you
and you get to know them and youyou're chatting to them, that it
takes on a whole different, youknow, type of type of gameplay.
And it's really, really, I Ifind it really, really
addictive. You know, new peoplecome in and then people are
(29:45):
obsessed. Come on, and we'llshow you where your last one is.
And and so in the future, whatwe're currently building at the
moment is the whole tasks systemas well. So we'll be also be
able to drive people around. So,you know, go and collect some
hollow caches. Go go and craftthis. Go and explore this area
and then build something up totogether as the as the community
(30:08):
as as more and more of of thesefeatures expand.
Kevin Horek (30:12):
Very cool. So at some point, are you gonna let
other people kind of build on tothe world and expand? Or is that
kind of just you guys are gonnacontrol all that?
Rob Greig (30:24):
Yes. So so at the moment, what we're doing is
because because these worlds arebit these these worlds are
absolutely huge, and and they'reall built, like I say, hand
built. They're they're notprocedurally generated at all.
Our our developers are planningout the land plots and placing
all the trees down on the plotsand and and building everything
up naturally. So the playerswill go in, and as they're
(30:46):
crafting and and and they'rebuilding up their land plots and
putting the buildings on, youknow, that's one element of the
game.
Another element of the game iswhat we call custom domes. And
the custom domes, again, areNFTs where where players can own
them, They now actually owntheir own dome. So these are
these are smaller domes. Thesecome in 5 different sizes. And
(31:08):
on there, we're giving thembuilding kits where they'll be
able to go in from from a blankcanvas, build whatever they want
in there, and open up their ownexperiences.
So if they want to to do aconcert in there or if they want
to have a shop or if they wantto have a PVP game or if they
want to do them all, they can dothem all in there. We'll give
them the tools and the and theframework to do that, and then
(31:31):
they'll be able to advertisetheir their space within the the
various Toledo Valley games, andwe'll we'll have ways of people
to be able to to travel to theirdifferent domes and play them,
and they'll have a leaderboard.So so so, yeah, the custom side
of it, the the custom domes, itreally expands the game then in
into a whole, you know, othertype of of of gameplay.
Kevin Horek (31:56):
Very cool. And then I'm assuming that if I build a
custom dome, at some point, Icould turn it into an NFT and
potentially sell it to somebodyelse?
Rob Greig (32:03):
Your custom dome is an NFT. Yes. So so
Kevin Horek (32:06):
Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Rob Greig (32:07):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so you bought that custom dome
and you can you can put all theNFTs within that custom domes.
You can build it up into intoyour own business.
You know, build a brand name upfrom scratch.
Kevin Horek (32:18):
That's cool.
Rob Greig (32:19):
When people come in, you can sell tickets,
experiences to come into yourdough, and then you can either
continue that as an ongoing,business, or you can then then
sell that NFT and everythingthat comes with it.
Kevin Horek (32:31):
That's that's very cool. So I'm curious. Is there,
like, like, how do like, or howbig, I guess, is the the game so
far and how many people areplaying? Because from my
understanding, it's Yep. It'squite big already.
Rob Greig (32:50):
So so currently live, we have Cluedo Valley, which is
kinda like this Vegas strip thatbacks onto, the racing the the
racing game. So in the racinggame so this Cluedo Valley
itself is 9 kilometers by 9kilometers. Slightly bigger than
a sector. But these vehicles flyat over a 1000 miles per hour,
(33:11):
so you need a lot of space to tocover them. We have we have 2
tracks.
If you own one of our flyingvehicles, you can come in now,
download the game on onto a PCas long as you've got the
qualifying graphics card, whichis about 30, 60, you can you can
come in and you can test thegame. So, again, different to to
traditional gameplay, which havekind of like closed testing. Our
(33:35):
testing is with any you just ownthe NFT, and you can come in.
You can you can start testingearly on.
Kevin Horek (33:41):
That's cool.
Rob Greig (33:42):
We have we have over 10,000 NFTs that have the
ability to to come in and test.You know, some people have more
than 1. But, yeah, anyone cancome in at any one point. We we
have, over over a 100 peoplethat that are testing the the
game daily. We we but we're veryearly in terms of
(34:03):
infrastructure.
We're we're ready to roll outthe next next phase soon. But at
the moment, we only have 2servers. So we have a European
server and an American server.We don't currently have a
character creator yet. That'scoming out in the next month or
so.
So when you load into the game,we have a choice of 29 different
(34:24):
prebuilt avatars. So you can gothrough them. They're some of
them are mining kits on somelogin. You can go in go into the
game and wander around. We havea a little mini soccer game in
there as well.
That's very, very early. But theracing game itself is is is
really quite advanced. I wouldsay if you come in, it's really,
really exhilarating, and we'vejust done a new update now. I
(34:48):
suppose we've added another,flying vehicle in which which
we'll we'll be up for sale in, aa few weeks from now. So so
that's Cluedo Valley.
That's that's the test kind ofkind of like the first world.
Sure. But but players don't ownany land in that. So we because
we're building agile, we wantedto kind of have a smaller
(35:10):
environment, because althoughthe although it's massive for
racing, the actual kind of,like, the the Vegas strip is is
relatively small. Then we'vealso built, in the first sector,
the the first sector is calledSolace.
Now Solace will be built, willwill contain 3 large worlds. So
(35:32):
Solace 1, 2, and 3. All three ofthose will be 8 kilometers by 8
kilometers. Solis 1 is nowcomplete in terms of artwork,
land plots, number of passes,and we're just going through the
the final QA soon. So prettysoon, we will we will release
Solis 1 to our testers.
(35:54):
Okay. And then thousands ofpeople will be able to really
see what we're building becausethis thing is absolutely
enormous. It takes about betweenwell, as the float, the crow
flies, probably half an hour towalk from one side of Solis to
the other. But there's massivemountains, there's hills,
there's thick forests. So thereis days and days and hours and
(36:17):
hours of exploration just tohappen in in in Solace, which is
kind of like Colorado.
It has all these these forestsand rivers, and and and,
eventually, this year, we willadd more and more features into
that. So you'll be able to tonot only go exploring, you'll be
able to do camping in there,build up your land plots. We
(36:38):
will have creatures, so there'llbe bears running in there.
There's definitely elements ofdanger within the MMO. There'll
be fishing spots in there whereyou'll be able to go in and do
fishing.
So SOLACE 1 is almost ready torelease. SOLACE 2 is, I would
say, 3 quarters of the waythrough. We we spent a lot of
time on SOLACE 1, making sureall our procedures are correct.
(37:02):
We, you know, we spent over ayear perfecting everything, how
we're gonna build it, how wewant the different elements to
work so that when we come tosort the other solaces and and
the other 2 zones that arecoming this year as well, We we
now have a pretty fast pipeline.So Solis 2 is almost ready to to
to go into test.
(37:24):
Solis 3, we've broken groundinto Solis 3. So I think Solis
1, 2, and 3 will will all 3 willbe released, in the next couple
of months. We're then working onEsperanza, which is the second
the second zone. Again, that's 3huge world. That's more like a a
a western barren kind ofartwork.
(37:51):
Again, players will be able toto own, land in in there. We've
sold land in in in all all nineof these sectors that it was
incredible that they they allsold with within minutes, which
was just absolutely incredible.Just as we were coming into into
the bear market that they justthey just kind of flew. And then
the third one is more like anoriental style, that's called
(38:14):
Fortune. So all 9 of these willbe these massive worlds will be
released, this world, alongsideCluedo Valley, which is already
there.
So we'll have 10 huge domes. Wewill also have the, the
activities and the progressionsystem built in there. We'll
have the character creator,which is coming very, very soon.
(38:37):
We will have fishing. We we havemining.
We did a demo last year in Vegasof what mining looks like. So so
we had lots of people runningaround that on a on 2
conferences. So that's excitingwhen that comes in because
people will then be able to gointo Solace, go down into the
depths, do some mining for someof those raw materials. And and,
(38:58):
again, there will be lots ofelements of of danger in there
as as people found out when theywere in Vegas. And that's kind
of this year.
So it's so so there's lots lotsto come this year and, lots more
to come.
Kevin Horek (39:15):
Very cool. So you've obviously been in this
space a long time. What advicedo you give to people that are
looking to maybe build in theNFT, Web 3 kind of this new
version of the Internet andnatural kind of progression?
Rob Greig (39:29):
Yeah. I mean, I I think one of the one of the one
of the the the, I suppose, thethe lessons that that we learned
and and and helped us is notjust to jump straight in. You
you need to you need to to learnthe the different spaces of of
(39:51):
not just from a technology pointof view, but from a community.
You know, really understand howto build a a a community, get
involved with with otherprojects. If you are kind of on
your own, we only started withwith 4 of us, you know, don't
don't let that the this thispage.
(40:12):
You know? Work with otherpeople. Ask you know, get with
like minded people. Startprojects together, and and just
really, really jump in, kindkind of learn. If you follow the
same route that that we did of,you know, building the
prototypes first, make sure thatyou can actually deliver, Then
(40:37):
when you go to have your NFTsales, you know, you will have
confidence that that you'll do.
I've seen, you know, so manyprojects that because they're
they're kind of techies, theystart off with the techy route,
then you you get to the partwhere, yeah, we're we're gonna
build this. We have this reallyexciting and and then you sell
the NFTs. Maybe the NFTs don'tsell out or maybe they do sell
(41:00):
out. Both of those give youissues, because one one of them
now how you don't have enoughmoney to complete your project,
and the other one, you do havethe money, but how do I actually
get the project? Because nowyou've got a community that's
when, when, when, you you know,the web 3 are like.
Kevin Horek (41:15):
Oh, yeah.
Rob Greig (41:15):
But one of one of the I suppose going back to what
what what we said a while ago,you know, what made me actually
pull the trigger and want tojump in and give my job up and
and go on this is is becausewhen I met Josh and and Jeff,
you know, Ant and myself, youknow, we're developers. We're
(41:36):
testers. Jeff in America has gota security side to him. He's a
he's a developer as well. He'she's built a company and and
sold that onto.
Josh is is is an entrepreneur aswell. He's got a huge marketing
background, huge businessbuilding businesses. So all our
skills actually work together.So we weren't just tech, tech
(41:57):
people. This has been some ofthe failings in the past when
when I stopped and startedvarious companies.
I got them so far. I could buildthe stuff. We could test the
stuff. We could have a greatproject. We've got no idea how
to actually get it out and andand sell it to other people and
see them.
So you have all this. You haveyou have to remember that
(42:17):
building an NFT project with thecommunity, when you take money
off people, you are now actuallya business, and you have to
treat that like a business. Youknow, you don't wanna run out of
money. You need to pay yourtaxes. You need to, have HR,
eventually.
You know, you have to have aplan of how you're gonna build
your company up, or if thingskind of go sour, what is gonna
(42:43):
be your backup plan? So so,yeah, don't just think I'm just
gonna go out there, and we'rewe're gonna sell NFTs. We're all
gonna have Lambos, and it'sgonna be great, and the
community are gonna love us. Youyou have to actually, you know,
have a plan of of how you'regonna deliver, how you're gonna
sustain it, and then treat thatlike a like a business. And and
that's, for me, is is an anotherreason why I really enjoy this
(43:06):
space because I I really doenjoy building teams.
I'm I'm I'm watching kind ofyoung people and and more
experienced people kind of worktogether with and and literally
just, you know, just build andbuild and build, but also build
a community within ourselves.You know? So, yeah, NFTs are a
(43:27):
serious you can just dabble. Ifyou just wanna dabble and and
you don't obviously, I'm talkingabout building a game. Yeah.
If if you just wanna dabble andyou just want the utility of, a
a PFP, for example, then, yeah,you can just you can just sell
them as NFTs. But, yeah, if youif you want if you wanna build a
game, definitely treat it like abusiness.
Kevin Horek (43:50):
No. I I think that's really good advice. So
you said you have 4 cofounders.Yes. How like, it's hard enough
to find 1, never mind more than1.
So how did you find yourcofounders and what advice do
you give to people to actuallyfind them? Because that's
really, really challenging in myopinion.
Rob Greig (44:09):
Yeah. Well, I I met Anthony at school. So, you know,
so so that is with withinbusiness, and I and I found this
over the years, you know, youcan have the the best product,
you can have absolutelyeverything, But if you don't
have solid foundations, if yourfounders don't know each other
(44:30):
or don't get on or or they haveego problems, you know, when you
do hit some some success or inin the bad times, you know,
things will fall apart. So sohaving a a solid partner like
Anthony, you know, I met him at12, so I've now known him over
35 years. We've settled previousbusinesses together.
(44:52):
So so we we have always startedour businesses together. So we
knew we, you know, we had asolid foundation. When I met
Josh, you know, Josh had knownJeff similar. You know, he'd
he'd known him for for decadesas well. Definitely a risk
because because I'd never metJosh or Jeff before, and they'd
never met us before.
You You know? So so we spenttime, but I also knew of Josh's,
(45:18):
reputation with within theindustry. So so that's important
as well. You know, if people dohave a have a history in the
space, you know, you do need todo your your due diligence, and
you need to work with them. Evenlike I say, we we built our
prototype.
We didn't sell a thing for 13months. Now that's kind of like
(45:39):
a honeymoon period. Are we gonnaget on together? Are we gonna be
at work together every singleday remote? Are we gonna be able
to make do we trust each other?
You know, you can't kind of dothat from from day 1. You have
to build that up over time. Andthen only when you know it's
gonna work. I mean, we'd alreadykind of gone in financially. So
(46:02):
so so there was already kind ofrisk.
But but, yeah, in building upthat, my best advice, you know,
go with people that that you cantrust or have a reputation and
that, that reputation they don'twant to lose because it is, it
is really, really difficult.But, yeah, try not to run out of
money and and try not to fallout with your founders. It's
(46:25):
it's it's it's a lot harder, youknow, easier said than done.
Kevin Horek (46:30):
Yeah. No. That's fair. We're we're kind of coming
to the end but is there anyother advice you'd like to pass
on to people that maybe you wishyou knew earlier on in your
career or just any other kind offinal thoughts?
Rob Greig (46:42):
Earlier in my career, you know, as you go as you go
through from various jobs tojobs, you you you are working
with different people. You youare learning different skills,
and, you know, some of them workout, some of them failures. But
failures, you know, you canlearn a lot from from failing,
and that can then lead on to thenext one. When you're kind of
(47:04):
young, you you know, you've gotmore to you you you're probably
living at home. You can take alittle bit more risks.
You know? But, don't go all inon things. Like I say, as I've
been building all my businessesup, eve even, you know, when I
was working for, for these othercompanies, I always had a side
hustle. So the side hustle wasalways something really
(47:25):
interesting. You know, don'tdon't jump in.
Don't give up your day job untilyou kind of have a some finances
in place. You have that backupplan. And, you know, that that's
probably been the the good wayfor me. I've been able to
scratch the itch over the yearsof working on my own projects
while still having, you know, afull time job to help help me
(47:46):
support through that. Becausewhen you do go all in, you
literally are all in, you know,the the pressure's on yourself.
You know, at the moment, Alex,we have we have 50 people. So
we're responsible now for 50different families, and that
would be a nightmare. But youyou can't build that up from day
1. It took us it took us a good3 years to get to that position.
(48:07):
But those first that first year,you know, that's that's the
that's one of the hardest parts,starting a company from scratch.
That's where you're taking a bigrisk but but you
Kevin Horek (48:18):
Yeah.
Rob Greig (48:18):
You need you need to kind of not do too many big
risks at the same time. So soso, yeah, figure out who you
wanna work with, have a trialperiod, but at the same time,
keep your full time job at the,at the back. But but,
eventually, if it does work outand you manage to go kind of all
(48:39):
in and start your own companyand you and and you get to, you
know, 3 years, it's it's such anamazing position. And and we've
not even started now. We we, youknow, the the game is is really,
really early.
Where we're gonna be in 3, 4, 5years from now is is just it's
just so exciting. And and thespace itself, it just seems to
(49:02):
be seems to be warming up aswell. We're we're rip you know,
we are we're disrupting anentire industry.
Kevin Horek (49:10):
A 100%. That's that's very cool, man. Well, how
about we close the show withmentioning where people can get
more information about yourself,the game, and any other links
you wanna mention?
Rob Greig (49:20):
Yes. We have, there's there's a couple of of things.
Our website is cornucopius.io.So that's cornucopiowithans dot
I o. We're on Twitter,cornucopius game.
We also have, what we built fromthe start is is we built our own
what we call a copy wiki. So Soso that's over 400 pages of our
(49:41):
history, the lore, the game, theNFTs, everything you you want to
know. That's onKopiWiki.conocopius. Io. And,
obviously, we have Discord.
That this our Discord is is thefirst place to go on to our
website, find our Discord, goand say hello, and you will meet
the the friendliest people inDiscord that will that will help
(50:04):
you. They will show you aroundthe game. They'll talk about
NFTs. They'll explain everythingfrom you. And then in the
future, you know, Conocoapiuswill be free to play.
So so you don't actually need toto have an NFT to play the game.
You just need an NFT at themoment just just while we're
going through through thetesting phase.
Kevin Horek (50:23):
No. Makes a lot of sense. Well, Rob, I really
appreciate you taking the timeout of your day to be on the
show, and I look to keeping intouch with you and have a good
rest of your day.
Rob Greig (50:30):
Yep. You too. Thank you.
Kevin Horek (50:32):
Thank you. K. Bye.
Intro / Outro (50:35):
Thanks for listening. Please visit our
website at building the futureshow dot com to join the free
community. Sign up for ournewsletter or to sponsor the
show. The music is done byElectric Mantra. You can check
him out at electricmantra.comand keep building the future.
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