July 18, 2025 • 54 mins
If you’ve ever felt like you were just trying to hold it all together… this episode is a soft landing.
Whether you’re navigating grief, chronic illness, trauma, or life just isn’t turning out the way you imagined, this is a conversation about what happens when you’re no longer okay, and the blueprint for “moving on” doesn’t fit your reality.
This week on the podcast, I’m joined by Dr. Amanda Guin a compassionate emotional intelligence coach, trauma-informed educator, and woman who has lived through unimaginable loss. Amanda’s story includes the death of her infant daughter, the suicide of her husband, years of endometriosis and chronic illness, and still… she continues to grow, serve, and show up with heart.
But she’s not here to tell you to “push through.”
Instead, she shares something powerful:
“I don’t want to just cope. I want to explore.”
Inside this episode, we explore what it looks like to:
- Reimagine what healing can mean after grief, illness, or loss
- Allow growth to unfold even when you feel stuck or exhausted
- Let go of the pressure to “be okay” and create space for duality
- Build a life and business that honors your pain and your potential
- And most of all remember that you’re allowed to take your time
This episode is a gentle invitation back to yourself.
To pause. To breathe. To remember: you’re not behind, and you’re not broken.
🌿 If you’re in a season where:
- Your capacity looks different than it used to
- You’ve lost someone or some version of yourself along the way
- You’re rebuilding slowly and quietly, unsure of what’s next
- Or you’re just tired of pretending you’re fine…
This conversation is here to hold you.
You don’t have to do it all.
You don’t have to rush.
And you don’t have to “cope” the way the world expects you to.
🤍 More About Amanda
Dr. Amanda Guin is a trauma-informed emotional intelligence coach with a Doctorate in Community Care & Counseling, a Master’s in Public Health, and multiple certifications in youth mental health and suicide prevention. Her work blends research, lived experience, and emotional wisdom to help people heal through grief, find purpose again, and grow through life’s hardest transitions.
Learn more at growwithpurposecoach.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey friend.
This is a really tender,powerful and deep conversation, so
I want to give you a littlebit of guidance while you're listening
to this episode.
We're going to go into deeptopics that are heavy around grief,
loss, healing and chronic illness.
(00:20):
And yet our guest today sograciously is open to sharing her
story.
If you've experienced grief,the loss of someone you love unexpectedly,
if you've been carryinganxiety and frustration and you've
been trying to cope, thisepisode is for you.
(00:42):
And I am joined by Dr. AmandaGwyn, a deeply compassionate emotional
intelligence coach who bringsboth lived experience and deep training
and in trauma, public healthand mental resilience.
She holds a doctorate incommunity care and counseling with
a focus on traumatology.
(01:05):
And her work is all abouthelping people navigate the messy,
non linear and very realprocess of rebuilding after life
shattering loss.
Amanda has lived through whatmany of us can't even imagine.
The loss of her daughter, amiscarriage, chronic illness diagnosis,
(01:26):
and then later the suicide ofher husband.
But what she shared with me inthis episode is that coping wasn't
enough for her.
So if you've ever foundyourself trying to be okay while
everything is still aching, ifyou've ever wondered whether your
grief and growth can coexist,if your business, your identity and
(01:49):
your capacity has shiftedafter a loss or illness, this episode
is a gentle, honest reflectionthat you're not alone, that you're
not broken, and that there aredifferent ways to move through this
time and still keep going.
Not because you're over it,but because you're learning how to
(02:11):
carry it.
All right y', all, stay tuned.
Welcome to Business withChronic Illness, the globally ranked
podcast for women living withchronic illness who want to start
and grow a business business online.
I'm your host, Nikita Williamsand I went from living a normal life
to all of a sudden being inconstant pain.
(02:32):
With no answers to beingdiagnosed with multiple chronic illnesses
and trying to make a livableincome, I faced the challenge of
adapting traditional businessadvice to fit my unique circumstances
with chronic illness.
Feeling frustrated and moreburned out than I already was while
managing my chronic illness tobecoming an award winning coach with
a flexible, sustainable onlinecoaching business, I found this surprisingly
(02:56):
simp simple steps to startingand growing a profitable business
without compromising my healthor my peace.
Since then, I've helped dozensof women just like you learn how
to do the same.
If you're ready to create athriving business that aligns with
your lifestyle and well being,you're in the right place.
Together, we're shifting thenarrative of what's possible for
women with chronic illness andhow we make a living.
(03:19):
This is business with chronic illness.
Alrighty.
So I am so excited to haveAmanda on the show today.
We are gonna go into a pretty.
I think I feel like when Ifirst started talking with you, Amanda,
I felt so much like,compassion and empathy and deepness.
(03:44):
Like, there's so much therefor us to go into.
And I think the topic ofgrief, trauma, healing, loss are
all things that we allexperience going through, through,
or living with chronic illnesson top of other things that life
have, you know, like, we'regoing to talk about.
And when they compound.
(04:05):
Right.
When things compound, whenyou're feeling all of the things
and all of the different waysyou can feel grief, loss, and trauma.
I'm curious, what has helped,like, what has your journey been
when it comes to coping?
And I guess I want to say,like, allowing space for it.
(04:27):
That's a good question.
So I like to say I try not touse the word so much as coping, like,
exploring avenues of healing.
Like to use that.
Because coping feels verystagnant to me, and I don't want
to sit in that place.
(04:47):
Want to learn, and I want togrow from everything that I've been
through and all that Icontinue to endure.
So some of the ways that I do,I work through all of my.
My trauma and my grief, myloss is through remembering and identifying,
(05:07):
through my emotions,emotionally and spiritually, knowing
where I came from and loving myself.
So for me, that path haslooked a lot of different ways.
But I would say that's more ofhow I try to embrace the changes
that I had to go through.
Just continuing to know thatkeeping an open heart and making
(05:32):
sure my mind shifts with allof those changes.
Like I said, understanding myemotions and being able to adapt.
I mean, just the first twosentences of, like, instead of coping,
I like exploring.
I'm like, oh, that.
That is.
I haven't quite heard thatbefore in that way.
Love that.
That place of allowing spacefor movement.
(05:56):
Why does the word coping feelstagnant to you?
It just.
It feels like it's not so much movable.
And sometimes you can hitthese difficult places in your life.
And for me, I don't want thattype of movement to create more stress.
(06:24):
And I want it to be more of aplace that I can embrace rather than
take that technique of justdealing with it and being able to
be more mindful of it, beingemotionally mindful and open to it.
I like that because I know incoaching we talk A lot about reframing.
(06:46):
We talk a lot about changing,like trading words that don't really
serve us, that hit us differently.
Like, for me, one of my wordsis like, everyone talks about consistency.
And to me, that's just not aword that feels good, but being persistent
does feel good.
(07:06):
To me, it ultimately creates.
Right.
Consistency, but to me, that'sa better word.
And I, for me.
Right.
So I love that you're.
You're sharing, like, hey,here's another way that you could
also view managing, growingthrough, which is not necessarily
coping, but it does create acoping skills by thinking and leaning
(07:26):
into that word of exploring.
So I love.
Because that's what, that'swhat we have to do.
Like, things that help us tomove forward is training, you know,
trading words, trading thingsthat mean something to us.
So I, I love that you sharedthat in your journey.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthat for a moment.
Like, let's talk about how youcame to realize that.
(07:50):
I prefer to think of exploringover coping.
What led you to coming to that place?
Yeah, so it's been a lot of struggles.
Many years ago, when I wasyounger, I. I struggled with negative
cognitive thinking andquestioning my intelligence.
(08:12):
Really, I think that's whereit began.
But then as I got older, Istarted realizing I had chronic physical
pain at a young age.
I struggled with menstruationand just consistent pain or passing
out.
And it was just.
It was terrible at such ayoung age.
And eventually I did getdiagnosed with endometriosis.
(08:35):
And because of that, I. I wasalways in excruciating pain for a
very long time.
And then I was told by severalspecialists that, you know, the likelihood
of me getting pregnant andhaving children, after all I've been
through and all the surgeriesin laparoscopies, that.
(08:57):
That was very unlikely.
Fast forward several years,and I was surprised to find I was
pregnant.
In 2005 or 2004, I found out.
And then in 2005, I had myfirst daughter.
And Jolie was born in 2005with something called truncus arteriosis.
(09:19):
And my husband and I were leftto make decisions on her heart surgery
and what to do with that.
After her second heartsurgery, we were left empty and broken
by the loss of our daughter.
And I began to wonder if theretruly was a mom because she was only
(09:40):
alive for three weeks.
And then a year later, I had a miscarriage.
I began to wonder if, youknow, if I was supposed to be mother.
Motherhood was not striking.
Well, however, I beganfertility medication soon after and
(10:01):
was blessed to have my son.
And as soon as.
As soon as I was able to startfertility medicine again in a safe
zone, then a year later, wewere blessed with another daughter.
So I was joyful and excited,you know, by the news of the past
(10:23):
that, you know, that thatwasn't actually going to happen.
And then on May 9, 2015, myhusband took his life 10 years after
losing my first daughter.
And while I had went throughexcruciating physical pain with endometriosis,
(10:46):
I never imagined all of thepain, emotional and psychological
pain, of losing my child andmy husband 10 years apart.
And so that is really.
Is really what set my journeyin this life, to really start to
(11:10):
wonder what.
What path in life I wanted totake this piece of my journey.
I mean, that's.
I think when we talked aboutthis in our, like, get to know each
other chat before this, I wasjust like, I am so sorry for all
of that, all the loss and the.
The challenges that comes with that.
(11:33):
And also I am inspired, butmore like curious in this journey
of loss and grief that youseem to have found from where we've
just briefly gotten to talk toa place of moving through that grief
(11:57):
in a way that it hasn'tconsumed you.
Right.
Because I think,unfortunately, loss is a part of
our journey in life and itnever comes in a convenient space
or time.
And I also feel like those ofus living with chronic illness, especially
endometriosis, I think themajority of us have been told in
(12:18):
some way, shape or form,either you can't have children or
it's going to be difficult, orthe opposite.
Like, literally the polaropposite of, no, you need to have
children so that you can putyour endometriosis in remission.
And those strikingly different experiences.
Right.
Kind of crazy.
And I am one of those folkswho, living with endometriosis who
(12:39):
was told literally both thingsfrom multiple doctors.
It's just like, kind of baffling.
And then for me to have thechoice later on in life to decide
that I wasn't going to havechildren and come to peace with that,
but at the same time, there'sstill a grieving, there's still a
loss of being like, that's notsomething you're going to have is.
It is one of thosecontemplative places to be wrapping
(13:01):
your brain around, you know,and then just continue to move through
life.
And so I'm curious to know,you know, one of the things you mentioned
was, like, this physiologicaland mental pain, right?
And you've Already kind oftouched on it.
Like exploring what kind ofthings that you do or have you been
(13:24):
doing to explore soothing orfinding comfort or kind finding tools
to get to you.
To get to a point that nowyou, you know, you're starting a
business, you a whole.
I mean, some of your.
Your just amazing things thatyou do is.
Is amazing.
When I was like looking upeverything that you do between helping
(13:46):
those who are also goingthrough similar loss or challenges
or transitions in their lifefrom the healthcare management system
to, you know, militarysuicide, just so many things you've
done, you've taken so manythings while processing your own
grief and loss.
I'm curious to know whattools, what stories, what exploring
(14:11):
has led you to being able tolive the life that you're living
today.
I've also been told all ofthose same things, so I will identify
that.
Yeah.
And having the babies was nota cure.
I still had surgery after that.
Yeah.
Thank you for the question.
(14:32):
Yeah.
So all of the things that Ihave ventured through is ultimately
because of the losses and thepain and knowing that there has to
be something on the other side.
And so one of the places Istarted was, obviously started my
academic career and that wasin healthcare and understanding the
(14:55):
healthcare system more that weall could, but trying isn't that
interesting about.
The healthcare system, like togo to school and kind of understand
it and still be like, this isstill crazy, right?
Absolutely.
I absolutely was doing that inschool, going, oh, okay.
And that also changes sorapidly, you know, and then going
(15:17):
back to school after myhusband's suicide.
So I wanted to learn moreabout that.
I was not educated in that Iunderstood mental health.
He struggled a lot with posttraumatic stress and other difficulties,
his past and his military affiliations.
(15:37):
So he had definitely challenges.
So living in that was a struggle.
But I needed to understandmyself and why, knowing all the struggles
that we've been through for somany years, why I didn't catch that.
After a suicide loss, you havea lot of emotions and one of those
(16:01):
is shame and blame.
And those hit me really hardafter his loss and just trying to
understand how to overcomethat, so to speak, because it was
almost debilitating.
And so I went back to schoolto get my master's in public health
and I wanted to helpcommunities in the mental health
(16:23):
field.
And I also wanted to alsounderstand my own loss.
So that's why I did most of myresearch was on military suicide.
And then apparently I wantedto go on.
God was kind of pushing me inthat direction and I wanted to Learn
more about trauma.
And so I went and got adoctorate degree in education community
(16:46):
care with the emphasis ontraumatology, counseling.
And so I wanted to studytrauma in various different avenues
and just mental health andsuicide, because there's a vast majority
of different traumas.
And so absolutely really gaveme a larger perspective of what the
world goes through, really.
(17:07):
And that has actually led meinto going into emotional intelligence
coaching because I now want toreally help other people understand
their emotions because I hadsuch a vast majority of emotions
going through.
First my daughters and tryingto understand it, and then really
(17:28):
the complexity of suicide andmy husband's and, you know, and.
And instantly becoming a solo parent.
So, yeah, it was juggling, youknow, like anger, annoyance, and
then, you know, disgust ofwhat happened and how this happens
in the world to joy ofwatching my kids graduate from, you
(17:50):
know, first, second, third,you know, all of the grades.
And then I also had admirationbecause I'm admiring all these other
widows that have walked this journey.
I've also watched so.
And maybe this is why I don'tenjoy the word coping, because I've
seen so many people cope andthen get stuck.
(18:13):
And for me, that's notsomething that I really felt like
was going to be my voyage.
And so through all of thesedifferent emotions, I wanted to embrace
the growth aspect of it.
And so really, I wanted tocome along and not just support myself
(18:33):
through it, but support others.
And that's where I became apeer mentor.
And honestly, early on, it wasstrange that I would literally have
people calling me, going, oh,I know this widower, I know this.
Or the suicide loss, and whichcomplete open doors for me to allow
people to come speak to me.
(18:53):
But it also helped me realizethat I can help others through this
journey because I had toremember that my flow isn't going
to be the same with everybody else's.
Yeah.
Learning to grow andincorporate all of the pain and all
of the loss and realizing thatI can transform that into growth
(19:19):
was really the thought andbehavior that I wanted to put behind
everything that I had been through.
Yeah, I mean, I feel I. I find it.
I find it interesting.
And I'm curious too.
You know, you went into.
It sounds like you went into,like, learn it mode.
(19:39):
Like, learn it.
Like grief happened and thenthere was all these questions.
Was there a long period oftime before you moved into, like,
let me figure this out.
Was there?
Of course, grieving is not aone and done.
It's over time.
It's happening all of the time.
Right.
But was there after theInitial shock of your loss of your
(20:02):
husband and then theculminating of, like, being a single
parent.
Was there a time before you'relike, yes, I'm going to learn about
all of this?
I would, I guess I would say,was there a wallowing in it period
for you or was there was justlike, no, I don't have time to wallow.
I need to figure out what I'm doing.
Like, what is this?
(20:24):
I did not really have a wallow period.
So when I graduated mybachelor's degree, my husband and
I talked about going on to getour masters.
He on the military, had acouple other different jobs and had
graduated and became a nurse.
And so he was going to get.
We talked about him gettinghis master's in nursing, and then
(20:45):
I was going to go get my master's.
I was going for MBA to mph.
So I. I ended up sticking withmy mph.
The next weekend, my husbandtook his life and I did not want
to let him down.
And so I instantly applied to school.
(21:07):
Now, mind you, I cried a lotduring my master's degree because
I thought that he was.
We were going to be working onit together.
And I spoke to him a lot tohelp me get through that degree.
It was difficult, but I wentright into it because I knew if I
didn't, I didn't know if I would.
And.
And I really needed answers.
(21:29):
That's how I looked at it is Ineeded answers and I needed a breakdown
of why, you know, we just.
We were just talking about our future.
I know I will never get those answers.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But for me, it was a piece ofreshaping the way I think about it,
(21:51):
understand a little more abouthow I can incorporate my knowledge
into my healing.
And that's really the firststep that I took was going right
into it.
Now, mind you, there was a lotof pieces where, you know, I struggled
(22:13):
to.
I had a lot of crying days.
Yeah, of course, I can'timagine not that not being the case.
I was also actually fightingwith the VA at the same time.
So I had a lot of researchgoing on.
I had my school research.
I was becoming a solo parentand I was disputing with the va.
(22:36):
So it's a challenging time.
I can.
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot ofmoving feelings.
I think I'm curious on, like,based on what, you know, now, I think
a lot of us in general, we'redealing with the transition and everything.
I think we struggle with duality.
(22:57):
I think we struggle with theability to be grieving.
And you Mentioned thisearlier, like, be grieving, laughing,
and then, like, beingdisgusted and then being excited
for your kids.
Like, you know, I think a lotof us struggle with that.
In your, like, learnings andyour own experience, how did you
(23:19):
find peace or a level ofunderstanding when it comes to being
like, all of this can coexistand I can still keep going.
A lot of it for me as abeliever was praying.
I did a lot of that knowingthat that would be one big way to
combat all the negativeconnotation that would be thrown
(23:41):
at me or the negative thinkingthat I would be doing myself.
And so I just had to keep that.
That thought pattern of notalone and that God's with me and
there's not a specific process.
(24:01):
And so to be gentle withmyself and that my emotions are going
to help me move in thedirection that I'm supposed to go.
And between prayer andunderstanding that and also incorporating
yoga.
I used to do hot yoga a lotback then, and I did a lot of crying
(24:23):
on my mat.
There's a lot of matt.
Prayer meditation for me.
And that was a way to find relaxation.
There was a way to engage inmy own creative thinking of what's.
What's next.
How can I.
How can I help myself in this moment?
I didn't think back then thatI was going to start my own business.
(24:48):
I just wanted to comealongside other widows that had been
through this.
Just know that, hey, I'm herefor support and how can I help you
and what can I do to help you?
Yeah, I think that's where Iwas then.
Yeah, I love that you sharedthat point of.
There isn't a.
(25:10):
Like, basically, there isn't ablueprint for how you allow duality,
like, how you allow all ofthese moving parts to be.
And I think so.
I think.
I don't know about you, butI'd be curious to hear what you think
about this.
But I find as a coach andhaving a business and for you, sometimes
we do just want the blueprint.
(25:31):
Like, sometimes we do.
Like, clients will ask us,like, hey, just tell me what to do.
Like, I'll get a, you know, amessage from a client that's like,
hey, this is happening.
I'm feeling all of this, this.
And they're like, give me theframework that you use.
And I'm like, I can share withyou what I've done, but it.
It might look completelydifferent for you, and it's not going
to feel exactly the same for you.
And I think in.
In reality, we are all lookingfor this, like, checkbox of, like,
(25:56):
how do we get through this?
And we miss that intuitively,our body will tell us how we need
to get through this.
Like, our.
Our awareness, our intuition,all of those different things.
We just have to allow it.
But.
But when you're working withclients who.
And I'm assuming this becauseI've just talked to enough coaches
to hear, like, they just wantthe answer, and you're just like,
(26:16):
I gave them the answer, andthey're still not experiencing what
I experienced.
And we have to explore whatthat might look like differently
for them.
How have you helped, you know,widows in those places or women in
whatever area of loss or griefto realize, like, ultimately your.
Your healing is coming within,coming from within you?
(26:37):
Right.
What does that look like whenyou're helping women in that space?
That's great, because that'sexactly what I was about to say,
is that the wisdom is within ourselves.
And I just try to help themtap into the emotions that they're
feeling and the problem or thechallenge or the struggle that they're
(26:58):
facing, because it is in us.
It's.
All the answers are within us.
It's just learning or beingguided into tapping into what those
are.
So I try not to really, Iguess, offer too many tools.
I want them to kind of figureout their own.
(27:18):
I'm sure there is definitely a blueprint.
We could all, you know, typeit up and say, this is what worked.
And my.
My voyage through all of thisis not going to look like anybody
else's, and it may not helpsomebody else that's going down this
the same journey.
And so I just like to help.
(27:39):
Come alongside people and helpsort of like, filter them through
those emotions and realizethat, you know, there's always reason
for the process.
We can't always see it.
We can't see that big picture.
Remembering that, you know, myway is not always going to be your
(28:01):
way, but I want to help peoplediscover that within themselves.
So I think each one of us hasour own individual inner purpose.
And just being able todiscover that is really what is special
and beautiful and being ableto empower other people to do that.
(28:21):
Yeah, just what I love to do.
Yeah, I. I think it's.
I.
My.
My best friend, she is a.
A coach who works with trauma,and she's an emotional intelligence
coach and cbt, Trauma informed person.
She's got all these certifications.
I always tell her, like, girl,she's like, she reminded me a little
(28:44):
bit of you.
When I.
When you came on here, I waslike, oh my goodness.
It's like my, my friend islike that.
And something we always talkabout is, you know, I think the world
wants to define what ourtrauma is going to look like.
Like I've been really anti bigtrauma, little like big trauma, small
trauma.
And I'm like, I don't thinkour body knows the difference.
(29:04):
Our body just knows that it'strauma, right?
Like whether it's grief fromlike a pet passing away, whether
it's grief from having a newdiagnosis that is completely like
unexpected.
I know for me this year I'vehad multiple diagnoses.
I've had a new one recentlythat it's the least life altering
(29:26):
in most ways, but it's themost hard.
Like it's the.
Been the most difficult for meto process.
Like what?
Like it's a completelydifferent feeling and it feels more
groovy than other things thatI've experienced.
And I'm like, this is soweird, right?
But, but I say that to saylike as you've learned working with
(29:47):
people and also experiencingit yourself, is there a difference,
is there a difference between,you know, what they call big trauma
and little trauma?
Is that even a thing or isthat just the way that the world
has tried to, I don't know,make it feel better?
I don't understand this logic.
But I'm curious on what youthink about this.
(30:08):
That's a good question.
I think there can be somedifferences in trauma in just how
the body reacts.
I think everybody has theirown set of big T and little T. I
think big T is more like lifethreatening, right?
(30:30):
And in.
And that can be devastating tothe body, to the mind.
That's where I think a lot ofpeople don't necessarily really understand
how to get past that event.
And it could be even getting shot.
You know, like somebody comingthrough, getting, getting shot and
(30:54):
realizing that I live through that.
That's, that's, that could bedebilitating, but it can also be
transformative.
And then sometimes, you know,people then change their whole life.
Little T. I think people, youknow, there's always these diagnosis
in the DSM that tell us whatis and isn't trauma.
(31:17):
What is dsm?
Sorry?
That's the diagnosis book thatthey use for clinical, clinical diagnosis
of like post traumatic stressor other mental disorders.
And so a lot of clinicalpeople will go to that book and look
at it and say, oh well, thismight be a trauma, but maybe bullying
(31:40):
really isn't a trauma.
Honestly, I don't think we're.
We.
Another reason why I Wanted tobecome a coach because I don't want
to diagnose other people's traumas.
I just tell that we face themand how to make it through them.
And so, you know, a largeanswer of big T and the little T.
(32:01):
Yes.
Some can be much more extravagant.
But do I actually know thescientific background of evidence
if it relates to the body?
The same.
I don't.
I haven't done enough researchin that area.
But I think any type of traumawill affect us mentally and physically.
(32:22):
And I've had a child that hasbeen bullied and we dealt with all
of that.
Was it traumatic for her?
Absolutely.
Did it alter a lot of thingsfor her at a very young age?
Absolutely.
So did losing her dad.
So there's a lot of factorsthat you can play into trauma that
(32:43):
you may not see.
The big picture of all oflife's events.
I don't know.
I think that might answer alittle bit of it.
But I think ultimately ourbody, you know, kind of like the
book the body keeps us for.
Our bodies, our minds, oursouls, really know when we're hurt.
And that pain and hurt canalter a lot of things.
(33:09):
Physically, psychologically,emotionally, and even spiritually.
Yeah.
I just don't want to have totell people, yes, that is a trauma.
No, that's not a trauma.
No.
So I've.
I feel you on that.
I feel you.
Like, yeah, maybe that's whywe're coaches, not doctors.
(33:30):
Like, we're like, no, we justwant to get to the root of how it
makes you feel and how youneed to move forward.
Like, that is, that's, that's,that's a beautiful point.
Like, let's help you through it.
It doesn't matter how big orsmall it is.
It's something that affectsyou and how can it help you.
So I appreciate you sharing that.
As you've moved into havingyour own business and dealing with
(33:53):
your own trauma and your ownpain, loss and grief, how has it
been helpful in the process ofbuilding a business?
Like, I know this.
I personally feel thatbusiness is quote, unquote personal
because everyone says businessis business.
And I'm like, like, I thinkthere are aspects of business that
are actually business.
(34:14):
Business, like a contract,yes, that's totally business.
Right.
But like how we interact withour clients, what we do to market,
what we do to sell, like howour values, like that's all coming
from a personal place.
Like, that's coming from avalues driven place.
And it's also coming from ourperspective, is coming from our lived
(34:36):
Experiences.
So you've shared with usthese, your story of your lived experience
of processing and goingthrough, and still going through
loss and grief, but alsorunning a business and living with
a chronic thing.
Right.
And so I'm curious on how hasthat shaped how you have decided
(34:58):
to run your business?
And is there anything youwould give as advice to someone who's
in that similar space?
So how it impacts my businessis a lot through my empathy for others.
So I know that patience, ittakes a lot to be patient and to
(35:22):
understand that there'sgrowth, but there's also people who
need a little more tender,loving care to understand they have
that inner purpose.
And so building a relationshipis really imperative to me, knowing
that I can be trusted in thisprocess and come alongside you to
(35:44):
empower you to be able to movethrough the process of growth.
Because it is a process andthere's not like a standpoint.
It's just knowing that we'reall going to get there.
It's just everybody's time is different.
So building my business, Yes.
I am not a business, which isbusiness person.
(36:07):
I'm a person.
And so it probably impacts mesome, you know, because I'm still
learning the business mindset,so to speak, because I'm more of
a people person and emotional person.
And so my love and kindnessisn't always the best thing in business
(36:34):
when you have to make thosedefinitive answers.
Right.
But I'm learning and I'mgrowing in that area.
And so your second questionwas, how could I help other people
understand that in harmonizingtheir business?
I would say, I would say maybeincorporate your own values, what's
(36:55):
most important to you and, andhow you really want to see it fit
into your business.
So if you're not, you know,that contract business, dotted line
kind of person, which I'm not,I, I would say that you'll start
to learn your flow.
You'll start to understandwhat emotions you can bring forward
(37:19):
and what emotions you mightjust need to hold on to and maybe
process later.
So self awareness is reallyimportant when you become a business
owner too.
Absolutely.
To also manage those.
Right.
Like, okay, I'm aware of them.
This is hard even when you'recoaching and then becoming able to
(37:43):
manage those and to becomepatient even with yourself and your
clients through the process sothat you can be empathetic, you know,
and know that, that you'reeach going to take something away
from the process.
So, yeah, I think that would,that would be it for me.
Yeah.
No, I love this process myself.
(38:05):
I promise yeah, yeah, I think,I think that's, I think I would say
when I'm thinking and hearingyou, because I know you've just like,
as a, like a coachingbusiness, you're just kind of starting
in that lane, but you have somuch other experience in helping
other people, like trend, I'msure, like move through transitions
(38:27):
of loss and grief while tryingto find a job or while starting a
business.
Maybe like there is givingyourself permission that things of
what you thought might look acertain way might feel a different
way and might ultimately looka different way because of your loss.
Right.
Because of your grief.
I think that's, that's a hardthing for us to, to accept.
(38:54):
You know, there's, there's ahard place of acceptance when it
comes to that.
I'm curious if, if someonewere listening and they currently
already have a business andthey're already doing what they thought
they were doing and thenthey're in that place where you were
at one point where it's likethis loss unexpectedly happened.
And now I view thingsdifferently, I feel about things
(39:17):
differently.
You know, some people willwonder, do I just pause everything?
Do I like tear everything downand just figure it out?
What would you share withsomeone who's in that space, who's
trying to figure out this haschanged how I view everything or
how I feel about everything,what to do or what not to do in that
(39:40):
circumstance?
Well, I guess it would bedifferent for everybody.
So for me it would lookdifferent from the next person.
And, and I don't think I couldgo down the path of just saying,
you know, go this route, youknow, back to the blueprint, go this
route.
Because this is, this is whatworked for me.
(40:01):
I think it's kind ofnavigating and embracing all of the
changes that you're going through.
And for me, embracing was, was learning.
Obviously that's where Istarted, you know, started books
and courses and justunderstanding the basics.
I then wanted to incorporateself improvement and what that looked
like for me, and that was alsochange and learning new ways of doing
(40:26):
something or understandingsomething and setting myself goals
along the way.
I then had to incorporate thatmovement because I didn't want all
of the pain stuck in my body.
And so I then incorporatedphysical movement, which was like
yoga, Pilates.
I would even YouTube, youknow, somatic breath work and get
(40:48):
my body moving in the processand motivation, which was more on
the spiritual level for me.
I think it's, I don't, I don'thave like a, a step by step process
for somebody, because like Isaid, everybody is different.
But being able to embrace thechange, being able to reflect on
(41:09):
what you've been through andwhat you're going through, including
the pain, including thestruggle, sometimes it looks or feels
like defeat.
But just reminding yourselfthat I can get myself back up and
I can do this again, even ifthat's, you know, hey, this morning
I'm.
I know something we say a lotis just getting up to brush your
(41:32):
teeth during really hard grief days.
That's accomplishment and notnegating the fact that small accomplishments
will then gain upon each otherand you'll continue to grow and you'll
continue to incorporatesomething new and strengthen yourself
every day.
(41:52):
So I would say also kind ofadapting, you know, adapting to change
because that's, I think that'sreally big for people.
Just change and learning howto embrace it.
Yeah, yeah.
And I, I like how you'resaying, like there isn't.
(42:14):
What that looks like for youisn't necessarily the same thing
it looks like for somebody else.
However, I do still hear arelatively guide on moving through
something like that, which iskind of like a resting period of
realizing, okay, whatever thislooks like and like identifying what
(42:35):
your body or your, what youneed out of this, where you want
to go with this, and then justreally embracing that however it's
going to look, it's okay.
There's not a, there's not aright or wrong to your grief.
There's not a right or wrongto the decisions you currently are
going to make in that space.
(42:55):
It's just trying to figure outwhat is good for you.
And I think sometimes thattakes permission.
That takes permission to giveyourself that space to grieve or
to get up out of the bed andbrush your teeth.
Right.
So I love that you're sharinglike it's going to look different,
but it's a beautiful thing tojust allow, really.
(43:19):
It's just allowing what is tobe and deciding what you're going
to do.
Yeah, so.
So I do have like a little process.
So my theory is I, I say applyand ends with an I.
So knowledging, acknowledgingwhere you are, who you are and what
(43:39):
you want.
And sometimes it can be reallyhard even acknowledging the beginning.
Actually an event justoccurred or a pain is coming.
It can be really hard.
Pausing to reflect and yourintercession, your breathing, just
understanding, you know, whereyou're at purpose.
(44:02):
It's, it's that inner desire,the intention and the direction that
you want to go.
And then love, loving yourselfunconsciously, consciously and Subconsciously
in that process.
And then, you know, as youmove through that, then impacting
by giving back and upliftingand empowering.
(44:23):
And that's kind of where Ifind that I am.
Continue to go around theprocess, I think, you know, and I
kind of came up with thisbecause applying yourself is important.
And then being able to giveback to those and knowing that no,
(44:45):
no way is perfect, but.
And if you have to come backand go back to the start.
I know in my dissertation, somy theory, my dissertation, it was.
It was like this circle that Idid a dissertation on.
Suicide, surviving spouses.
But there was always.
There's always a pointing backpoint where you hit here and you're
(45:06):
doing so well and you're growing.
And then an event occurs, right.
You find yourself, oh, no, I'mback at the beginning.
But always know that even whenyou find yourself back at the beginning,
there's still a way to keepmoving forward.
And so it was just reallybeautiful to hear the stories of
(45:26):
all the women I was able tointerview, their story of reflecting,
acknowledging, and then goingback and saying, I'm not.
I'm not done yet.
I want to keep growing.
So, yeah, yeah, I love that.
I. I love that.
And not just to kind of bringit into a little bit of a lighter,
(45:49):
lighter note.
That's true with Pilates too.
Like, you know, like, havebeen religious with Pilates and then
needed to take a break becauseof health or life and stuff, and
then gone back and afraid,petrified that it will feel like
I have never done this beforein my life.
Right.
And it's true, it feels like that.
(46:11):
But when you get into it, yourealize, oh, it's really.
My body still remembers whatthis is supposed to feel like.
It still remembers how to dothis thing.
There's a song recently thatI've been listening to, I think by
Helsey or something.
I can't think of who it is actually.
And it's the song.
It's like the theme song, oneof the theme songs from the Barbie
(46:31):
movie.
I know this is going way.
Nikita's going way over.
Okay, Way on another place.
But it's like there's a linein the song where it's like, I used.
I don't know what it feels tobe happy.
I used to know.
I will know, basically.
And I think we in general,with all things in life, when we
(46:54):
have to do that cycle and wehave to start back, quote unquote,
over it, that's the.
To me, for me personally, thestarting over at that Very beginning
part, again, is the mostchallenging mental thing because
it feels like a defeat.
It feels like you have messedsomething up and you've already messed
(47:15):
up already and you're going tostart over and it's going to be so
much harder.
But literally, it's just thathump of not allowing that belief
to stop you from starting back over.
That's the hardest part, in my opinion.
And so when I'm hearing yousay that about those who have some
event and something happensand they have to start this process
over again, it's just like Iwant them to also know.
(47:38):
It's like the hardest part islike the giving yourself permission
to quote, unquote, start over again.
But in reality, your body willremember what it needs to do.
Right?
And it's like Pilates.
I didn't want to go back toPilates, but I put my feet in the
straps and it's like, oh, weknow how to do this.
Like, it is.
(48:00):
Your body will not forget thethings that will serve you.
So just sharing that.
Yeah, that's actually an.
Another piece of why I want.
I'm actually going toeventually incorporate Pilates into
my practice.
So I'm working on my Pilatesright now certification and then
(48:22):
incorporate yoga and somaticbreath work because I find that all
of it is part of the process.
And.
And as you stated, the bodyknows, like, that comes from the
brain.
And I think it's the hippocampus.
It reminds us that, hey, we'vebeen here before for.
And it stores all, all of thatto remind us, hey, we can, you know,
(48:47):
we can get through this, wecan do this.
The amygdala is our emotionalpart, so they work together to help
us remind us.
Yeah, what are those emotionsthat brought you through and how
can you relate back to thoseemotions so that you can work through
the process, even if it'sPilates, it's going, your brain's
(49:09):
moving and it's going, oh,it's hard, it's hard.
And then you're going yoursecond or third time and going, oh,
yeah.
But I remember this and I didit again and I'm doing it again.
And so that's a significantrole of overcoming the fear.
Yeah.
Just not starting again.
So congratulations on thatbecause a lot of people stuck in
(49:31):
that and it's a really big challenge.
But you really do you.
That's a process of growth andthat's how your brain grows.
And that's another one of mythings, is this brain health.
So that's another thing I Ilike to coach on and in happiness.
I'm also writing a book on happiness.
So just everybody's view is different.
(49:54):
Yeah, it is a beautiful thing.
I tell people all the time.
I have a couple of clients whoI think a lot of us focus on grounding,
which I think is important.
But I also feel like we needto focus on releasing.
And I find to your point, partof this healing, like the movement,
breath work.
(50:15):
Movement is a form of release.
So a screaming and yelling and like.
So movement is a way of releasing.
Grounding is great to kind ofrecenter and like tell your nervous
system, we're safe, we're okay.
But we also store all of thatenergy energetically and that energy
has to go somewhere.
Right.
And so movement is a huge partof that.
(50:37):
So I love that you'reincorporating that part into your.
Into your practice orencouraging your clients to do that
because that has made all thedifference for me.
I'm like not doing it to likelose weight.
I'm doing it to like release.
And also it just makes me feel good.
Like I feel so much betterwhen I have that kind of release.
So it's powerful.
(50:59):
It is.
So what's coming up for you?
I hear you just said you'rehaving a book coming up.
What else is good that'shappening and tell us where we can
find you, silly.
So, yes, I am working on my book.
It's going to be Happiness isa Facade and growing my business
like I said earlier.
So I am working on mycertifications for Pilates, yoga
(51:22):
and then eventually breathwork to incorporate that.
You can find me atwww.growwithpurposecoach.com and
yeah, so I'm really excitedfor what's coming up and continuing
to grow this business.
Emotional Intelligence is anexceptional piece and I want people
to understand their emotionsthrough the pain and through.
(51:45):
Through all walks of life.
Right.
Not just for self, but for rthose around us.
But then I also want to helppeople process the pain or the trauma
or the hurts or the grief.
And that's through movement.
So that's why I really want tobuild the business so that people
can get a full understanding of.
Okay, here are my emotions.
(52:06):
This is brain health piece tohelp you understand what's the best
approach to health, where toeat for my brain and then movement.
So I want to incorporate awhole mind, body and soul practice
for people to.
To get healed.
I love that.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on and sharing your lived experience,
your story and your thoughtson how we can process and kind of
(52:31):
grow and keep growing throughthe grief and pain that we go through.
So thank you.
Thank you.
I appreciate you having me on.
That's a wrap for this episodeof Business with Chronic Illness.
If you would like to start andgrow an online coaching business
with me, head to the ShowNotes to click a link to book a sales
call and learn how to makemoney with chronic illness.
(52:53):
You can also check out ourwebsite@ww.CraftedToThrive.com for
this episode's Show Notes andjoin our email list to get exclusive
content where I coach you onhow to chronically grow a profitable
business while living withchronic illness.
Until next time, remember,yes, you are crafted to thrive.
Hey friend.
This is a really tender,powerful and deep conversation, so
I want to give you a littlebit of guidance while you're listening
to this episode.
We're going to go into deeptopics that are heavy around grief,
loss, healing and chronic illness.
(00:20):
And yet our guest today sograciously is open to sharing her
story.
If you've experienced grief,the loss of someone you love unexpectedly,
if you've been carryinganxiety and frustration and you've
been trying to cope, thisepisode is for you.
(00:42):
And I am joined by Dr. AmandaGwyn, a deeply compassionate emotional
intelligence coach who bringsboth lived experience and deep training
and in trauma, public healthand mental resilience.
She holds a doctorate incommunity care and counseling with
a focus on traumatology.
(01:05):
And her work is all abouthelping people navigate the messy,
non linear and very realprocess of rebuilding after life
shattering loss.
Amanda has lived through whatmany of us can't even imagine.
The loss of her daughter, amiscarriage, chronic illness diagnosis,
(01:26):
and then later the suicide ofher husband.
But what she shared with me inthis episode is that coping wasn't
enough for her.
So if you've ever foundyourself trying to be okay while
everything is still aching, ifyou've ever wondered whether your
grief and growth can coexist,if your business, your identity and
(01:49):
your capacity has shiftedafter a loss or illness, this episode
is a gentle, honest reflectionthat you're not alone, that you're
not broken, and that there aredifferent ways to move through this
time and still keep going.
Not because you're over it,but because you're learning how to
(02:11):
carry it.
All right y', all, stay tuned.
Welcome to Business withChronic Illness, the globally ranked
podcast for women living withchronic illness who want to start
and grow a business business online.
I'm your host, Nikita Williamsand I went from living a normal life
to all of a sudden being inconstant pain.
(02:32):
With no answers to beingdiagnosed with multiple chronic illnesses
and trying to make a livableincome, I faced the challenge of
adapting traditional businessadvice to fit my unique circumstances
with chronic illness.
Feeling frustrated and moreburned out than I already was while
managing my chronic illness tobecoming an award winning coach with
a flexible, sustainable onlinecoaching business, I found this surprisingly
(02:56):
simp simple steps to startingand growing a profitable business
without compromising my healthor my peace.
Since then, I've helped dozensof women just like you learn how
to do the same.
If you're ready to create athriving business that aligns with
your lifestyle and well being,you're in the right place.
Together, we're shifting thenarrative of what's possible for
women with chronic illness andhow we make a living.
(03:19):
This is business with chronic illness.
Alrighty.
So I am so excited to haveAmanda on the show today.
We are gonna go into a pretty.
I think I feel like when Ifirst started talking with you, Amanda,
I felt so much like,compassion and empathy and deepness.
(03:44):
Like, there's so much therefor us to go into.
And I think the topic ofgrief, trauma, healing, loss are
all things that we allexperience going through, through,
or living with chronic illnesson top of other things that life
have, you know, like, we'regoing to talk about.
And when they compound.
(04:05):
Right.
When things compound, whenyou're feeling all of the things
and all of the different waysyou can feel grief, loss, and trauma.
I'm curious, what has helped,like, what has your journey been
when it comes to coping?
And I guess I want to say,like, allowing space for it.
(04:27):
That's a good question.
So I like to say I try not touse the word so much as coping, like,
exploring avenues of healing.
Like to use that.
Because coping feels verystagnant to me, and I don't want
to sit in that place.
(04:47):
Want to learn, and I want togrow from everything that I've been
through and all that Icontinue to endure.
So some of the ways that I do,I work through all of my.
My trauma and my grief, myloss is through remembering and identifying,
(05:07):
through my emotions,emotionally and spiritually, knowing
where I came from and loving myself.
So for me, that path haslooked a lot of different ways.
But I would say that's more ofhow I try to embrace the changes
that I had to go through.
Just continuing to know thatkeeping an open heart and making
(05:32):
sure my mind shifts with allof those changes.
Like I said, understanding myemotions and being able to adapt.
I mean, just the first twosentences of, like, instead of coping,
I like exploring.
I'm like, oh, that.
That is.
I haven't quite heard thatbefore in that way.
Love that.
That place of allowing spacefor movement.
(05:56):
Why does the word coping feelstagnant to you?
It just.
It feels like it's not so much movable.
And sometimes you can hitthese difficult places in your life.
And for me, I don't want thattype of movement to create more stress.
(06:24):
And I want it to be more of aplace that I can embrace rather than
take that technique of justdealing with it and being able to
be more mindful of it, beingemotionally mindful and open to it.
I like that because I know incoaching we talk A lot about reframing.
(06:46):
We talk a lot about changing,like trading words that don't really
serve us, that hit us differently.
Like, for me, one of my wordsis like, everyone talks about consistency.
And to me, that's just not aword that feels good, but being persistent
does feel good.
(07:06):
To me, it ultimately creates.
Right.
Consistency, but to me, that'sa better word.
And I, for me.
Right.
So I love that you're.
You're sharing, like, hey,here's another way that you could
also view managing, growingthrough, which is not necessarily
coping, but it does create acoping skills by thinking and leaning
(07:26):
into that word of exploring.
So I love.
Because that's what, that'swhat we have to do.
Like, things that help us tomove forward is training, you know,
trading words, trading thingsthat mean something to us.
So I, I love that you sharedthat in your journey.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthat for a moment.
Like, let's talk about how youcame to realize that.
(07:50):
I prefer to think of exploringover coping.
What led you to coming to that place?
Yeah, so it's been a lot of struggles.
Many years ago, when I wasyounger, I. I struggled with negative
cognitive thinking andquestioning my intelligence.
(08:12):
Really, I think that's whereit began.
But then as I got older, Istarted realizing I had chronic physical
pain at a young age.
I struggled with menstruationand just consistent pain or passing
out.
And it was just.
It was terrible at such ayoung age.
And eventually I did getdiagnosed with endometriosis.
(08:35):
And because of that, I. I wasalways in excruciating pain for a
very long time.
And then I was told by severalspecialists that, you know, the likelihood
of me getting pregnant andhaving children, after all I've been
through and all the surgeriesin laparoscopies, that.
(08:57):
That was very unlikely.
Fast forward several years,and I was surprised to find I was
pregnant.
In 2005 or 2004, I found out.
And then in 2005, I had myfirst daughter.
And Jolie was born in 2005with something called truncus arteriosis.
(09:19):
And my husband and I were leftto make decisions on her heart surgery
and what to do with that.
After her second heartsurgery, we were left empty and broken
by the loss of our daughter.
And I began to wonder if theretruly was a mom because she was only
(09:40):
alive for three weeks.
And then a year later, I had a miscarriage.
I began to wonder if, youknow, if I was supposed to be mother.
Motherhood was not striking.
Well, however, I beganfertility medication soon after and
(10:01):
was blessed to have my son.
And as soon as.
As soon as I was able to startfertility medicine again in a safe
zone, then a year later, wewere blessed with another daughter.
So I was joyful and excited,you know, by the news of the past
(10:23):
that, you know, that thatwasn't actually going to happen.
And then on May 9, 2015, myhusband took his life 10 years after
losing my first daughter.
And while I had went throughexcruciating physical pain with endometriosis,
(10:46):
I never imagined all of thepain, emotional and psychological
pain, of losing my child andmy husband 10 years apart.
And so that is really.
Is really what set my journeyin this life, to really start to
(11:10):
wonder what.
What path in life I wanted totake this piece of my journey.
I mean, that's.
I think when we talked aboutthis in our, like, get to know each
other chat before this, I wasjust like, I am so sorry for all
of that, all the loss and the.
The challenges that comes with that.
(11:33):
And also I am inspired, butmore like curious in this journey
of loss and grief that youseem to have found from where we've
just briefly gotten to talk toa place of moving through that grief
(11:57):
in a way that it hasn'tconsumed you.
Right.
Because I think,unfortunately, loss is a part of
our journey in life and itnever comes in a convenient space
or time.
And I also feel like those ofus living with chronic illness, especially
endometriosis, I think themajority of us have been told in
(12:18):
some way, shape or form,either you can't have children or
it's going to be difficult, orthe opposite.
Like, literally the polaropposite of, no, you need to have
children so that you can putyour endometriosis in remission.
And those strikingly different experiences.
Right.
Kind of crazy.
And I am one of those folkswho, living with endometriosis who
(12:39):
was told literally both thingsfrom multiple doctors.
It's just like, kind of baffling.
And then for me to have thechoice later on in life to decide
that I wasn't going to havechildren and come to peace with that,
but at the same time, there'sstill a grieving, there's still a
loss of being like, that's notsomething you're going to have is.
It is one of thosecontemplative places to be wrapping
(13:01):
your brain around, you know,and then just continue to move through
life.
And so I'm curious to know,you know, one of the things you mentioned
was, like, this physiologicaland mental pain, right?
And you've Already kind oftouched on it.
Like exploring what kind ofthings that you do or have you been
(13:24):
doing to explore soothing orfinding comfort or kind finding tools
to get to you.
To get to a point that nowyou, you know, you're starting a
business, you a whole.
I mean, some of your.
Your just amazing things thatyou do is.
Is amazing.
When I was like looking upeverything that you do between helping
(13:46):
those who are also goingthrough similar loss or challenges
or transitions in their lifefrom the healthcare management system
to, you know, militarysuicide, just so many things you've
done, you've taken so manythings while processing your own
grief and loss.
I'm curious to know whattools, what stories, what exploring
(14:11):
has led you to being able tolive the life that you're living
today.
I've also been told all ofthose same things, so I will identify
that.
Yeah.
And having the babies was nota cure.
I still had surgery after that.
Yeah.
Thank you for the question.
(14:32):
Yeah.
So all of the things that Ihave ventured through is ultimately
because of the losses and thepain and knowing that there has to
be something on the other side.
And so one of the places Istarted was, obviously started my
academic career and that wasin healthcare and understanding the
(14:55):
healthcare system more that weall could, but trying isn't that
interesting about.
The healthcare system, like togo to school and kind of understand
it and still be like, this isstill crazy, right?
Absolutely.
I absolutely was doing that inschool, going, oh, okay.
And that also changes sorapidly, you know, and then going
(15:17):
back to school after myhusband's suicide.
So I wanted to learn moreabout that.
I was not educated in that Iunderstood mental health.
He struggled a lot with posttraumatic stress and other difficulties,
his past and his military affiliations.
(15:37):
So he had definitely challenges.
So living in that was a struggle.
But I needed to understandmyself and why, knowing all the struggles
that we've been through for somany years, why I didn't catch that.
After a suicide loss, you havea lot of emotions and one of those
(16:01):
is shame and blame.
And those hit me really hardafter his loss and just trying to
understand how to overcomethat, so to speak, because it was
almost debilitating.
And so I went back to schoolto get my master's in public health
and I wanted to helpcommunities in the mental health
(16:23):
field.
And I also wanted to alsounderstand my own loss.
So that's why I did most of myresearch was on military suicide.
And then apparently I wantedto go on.
God was kind of pushing me inthat direction and I wanted to Learn
more about trauma.
And so I went and got adoctorate degree in education community
(16:46):
care with the emphasis ontraumatology, counseling.
And so I wanted to studytrauma in various different avenues
and just mental health andsuicide, because there's a vast majority
of different traumas.
And so absolutely really gaveme a larger perspective of what the
world goes through, really.
(17:07):
And that has actually led meinto going into emotional intelligence
coaching because I now want toreally help other people understand
their emotions because I hadsuch a vast majority of emotions
going through.
First my daughters and tryingto understand it, and then really
(17:28):
the complexity of suicide andmy husband's and, you know, and.
And instantly becoming a solo parent.
So, yeah, it was juggling, youknow, like anger, annoyance, and
then, you know, disgust ofwhat happened and how this happens
in the world to joy ofwatching my kids graduate from, you
(17:50):
know, first, second, third,you know, all of the grades.
And then I also had admirationbecause I'm admiring all these other
widows that have walked this journey.
I've also watched so.
And maybe this is why I don'tenjoy the word coping, because I've
seen so many people cope andthen get stuck.
(18:13):
And for me, that's notsomething that I really felt like
was going to be my voyage.
And so through all of thesedifferent emotions, I wanted to embrace
the growth aspect of it.
And so really, I wanted tocome along and not just support myself
(18:33):
through it, but support others.
And that's where I became apeer mentor.
And honestly, early on, it wasstrange that I would literally have
people calling me, going, oh,I know this widower, I know this.
Or the suicide loss, and whichcomplete open doors for me to allow
people to come speak to me.
(18:53):
But it also helped me realizethat I can help others through this
journey because I had toremember that my flow isn't going
to be the same with everybody else's.
Yeah.
Learning to grow andincorporate all of the pain and all
of the loss and realizing thatI can transform that into growth
(19:19):
was really the thought andbehavior that I wanted to put behind
everything that I had been through.
Yeah, I mean, I feel I. I find it.
I find it interesting.
And I'm curious too.
You know, you went into.
It sounds like you went into,like, learn it mode.
(19:39):
Like, learn it.
Like grief happened and thenthere was all these questions.
Was there a long period oftime before you moved into, like,
let me figure this out.
Was there?
Of course, grieving is not aone and done.
It's over time.
It's happening all of the time.
Right.
But was there after theInitial shock of your loss of your
(20:02):
husband and then theculminating of, like, being a single
parent.
Was there a time before you'relike, yes, I'm going to learn about
all of this?
I would, I guess I would say,was there a wallowing in it period
for you or was there was justlike, no, I don't have time to wallow.
I need to figure out what I'm doing.
Like, what is this?
(20:24):
I did not really have a wallow period.
So when I graduated mybachelor's degree, my husband and
I talked about going on to getour masters.
He on the military, had acouple other different jobs and had
graduated and became a nurse.
And so he was going to get.
We talked about him gettinghis master's in nursing, and then
(20:45):
I was going to go get my master's.
I was going for MBA to mph.
So I. I ended up sticking withmy mph.
The next weekend, my husbandtook his life and I did not want
to let him down.
And so I instantly applied to school.
(21:07):
Now, mind you, I cried a lotduring my master's degree because
I thought that he was.
We were going to be working onit together.
And I spoke to him a lot tohelp me get through that degree.
It was difficult, but I wentright into it because I knew if I
didn't, I didn't know if I would.
And.
And I really needed answers.
(21:29):
That's how I looked at it is Ineeded answers and I needed a breakdown
of why, you know, we just.
We were just talking about our future.
I know I will never get those answers.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But for me, it was a piece ofreshaping the way I think about it,
(21:51):
understand a little more abouthow I can incorporate my knowledge
into my healing.
And that's really the firststep that I took was going right
into it.
Now, mind you, there was a lotof pieces where, you know, I struggled
(22:13):
to.
I had a lot of crying days.
Yeah, of course, I can'timagine not that not being the case.
I was also actually fightingwith the VA at the same time.
So I had a lot of researchgoing on.
I had my school research.
I was becoming a solo parentand I was disputing with the va.
(22:36):
So it's a challenging time.
I can.
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot ofmoving feelings.
I think I'm curious on, like,based on what, you know, now, I think
a lot of us in general, we'redealing with the transition and everything.
I think we struggle with duality.
(22:57):
I think we struggle with theability to be grieving.
And you Mentioned thisearlier, like, be grieving, laughing,
and then, like, beingdisgusted and then being excited
for your kids.
Like, you know, I think a lotof us struggle with that.
In your, like, learnings andyour own experience, how did you
(23:19):
find peace or a level ofunderstanding when it comes to being
like, all of this can coexistand I can still keep going.
A lot of it for me as abeliever was praying.
I did a lot of that knowingthat that would be one big way to
combat all the negativeconnotation that would be thrown
(23:41):
at me or the negative thinkingthat I would be doing myself.
And so I just had to keep that.
That thought pattern of notalone and that God's with me and
there's not a specific process.
(24:01):
And so to be gentle withmyself and that my emotions are going
to help me move in thedirection that I'm supposed to go.
And between prayer andunderstanding that and also incorporating
yoga.
I used to do hot yoga a lotback then, and I did a lot of crying
(24:23):
on my mat.
There's a lot of matt.
Prayer meditation for me.
And that was a way to find relaxation.
There was a way to engage inmy own creative thinking of what's.
What's next.
How can I.
How can I help myself in this moment?
I didn't think back then thatI was going to start my own business.
(24:48):
I just wanted to comealongside other widows that had been
through this.
Just know that, hey, I'm herefor support and how can I help you
and what can I do to help you?
Yeah, I think that's where Iwas then.
Yeah, I love that you sharedthat point of.
There isn't a.
(25:10):
Like, basically, there isn't ablueprint for how you allow duality,
like, how you allow all ofthese moving parts to be.
And I think so.
I think.
I don't know about you, butI'd be curious to hear what you think
about this.
But I find as a coach andhaving a business and for you, sometimes
we do just want the blueprint.
(25:31):
Like, sometimes we do.
Like, clients will ask us,like, hey, just tell me what to do.
Like, I'll get a, you know, amessage from a client that's like,
hey, this is happening.
I'm feeling all of this, this.
And they're like, give me theframework that you use.
And I'm like, I can share withyou what I've done, but it.
It might look completelydifferent for you, and it's not going
to feel exactly the same for you.
And I think in.
In reality, we are all lookingfor this, like, checkbox of, like,
(25:56):
how do we get through this?
And we miss that intuitively,our body will tell us how we need
to get through this.
Like, our.
Our awareness, our intuition,all of those different things.
We just have to allow it.
But.
But when you're working withclients who.
And I'm assuming this becauseI've just talked to enough coaches
to hear, like, they just wantthe answer, and you're just like,
(26:16):
I gave them the answer, andthey're still not experiencing what
I experienced.
And we have to explore whatthat might look like differently
for them.
How have you helped, you know,widows in those places or women in
whatever area of loss or griefto realize, like, ultimately your.
Your healing is coming within,coming from within you?
(26:37):
Right.
What does that look like whenyou're helping women in that space?
That's great, because that'sexactly what I was about to say,
is that the wisdom is within ourselves.
And I just try to help themtap into the emotions that they're
feeling and the problem or thechallenge or the struggle that they're
(26:58):
facing, because it is in us.
It's.
All the answers are within us.
It's just learning or beingguided into tapping into what those
are.
So I try not to really, Iguess, offer too many tools.
I want them to kind of figureout their own.
(27:18):
I'm sure there is definitely a blueprint.
We could all, you know, typeit up and say, this is what worked.
And my.
My voyage through all of thisis not going to look like anybody
else's, and it may not helpsomebody else that's going down this
the same journey.
And so I just like to help.
(27:39):
Come alongside people and helpsort of like, filter them through
those emotions and realizethat, you know, there's always reason
for the process.
We can't always see it.
We can't see that big picture.
Remembering that, you know, myway is not always going to be your
(28:01):
way, but I want to help peoplediscover that within themselves.
So I think each one of us hasour own individual inner purpose.
And just being able todiscover that is really what is special
and beautiful and being ableto empower other people to do that.
(28:21):
Yeah, just what I love to do.
Yeah, I. I think it's.
I.
My.
My best friend, she is a.
A coach who works with trauma,and she's an emotional intelligence
coach and cbt, Trauma informed person.
She's got all these certifications.
I always tell her, like, girl,she's like, she reminded me a little
(28:44):
bit of you.
When I.
When you came on here, I waslike, oh my goodness.
It's like my, my friend islike that.
And something we always talkabout is, you know, I think the world
wants to define what ourtrauma is going to look like.
Like I've been really anti bigtrauma, little like big trauma, small
trauma.
And I'm like, I don't thinkour body knows the difference.
(29:04):
Our body just knows that it'strauma, right?
Like whether it's grief fromlike a pet passing away, whether
it's grief from having a newdiagnosis that is completely like
unexpected.
I know for me this year I'vehad multiple diagnoses.
I've had a new one recentlythat it's the least life altering
(29:26):
in most ways, but it's themost hard.
Like it's the.
Been the most difficult for meto process.
Like what?
Like it's a completelydifferent feeling and it feels more
groovy than other things thatI've experienced.
And I'm like, this is soweird, right?
But, but I say that to saylike as you've learned working with
(29:47):
people and also experiencingit yourself, is there a difference,
is there a difference between,you know, what they call big trauma
and little trauma?
Is that even a thing or isthat just the way that the world
has tried to, I don't know,make it feel better?
I don't understand this logic.
But I'm curious on what youthink about this.
(30:08):
That's a good question.
I think there can be somedifferences in trauma in just how
the body reacts.
I think everybody has theirown set of big T and little T. I
think big T is more like lifethreatening, right?
(30:30):
And in.
And that can be devastating tothe body, to the mind.
That's where I think a lot ofpeople don't necessarily really understand
how to get past that event.
And it could be even getting shot.
You know, like somebody comingthrough, getting, getting shot and
(30:54):
realizing that I live through that.
That's, that's, that could bedebilitating, but it can also be
transformative.
And then sometimes, you know,people then change their whole life.
Little T. I think people, youknow, there's always these diagnosis
in the DSM that tell us whatis and isn't trauma.
(31:17):
What is dsm?
Sorry?
That's the diagnosis book thatthey use for clinical, clinical diagnosis
of like post traumatic stressor other mental disorders.
And so a lot of clinicalpeople will go to that book and look
at it and say, oh well, thismight be a trauma, but maybe bullying
(31:40):
really isn't a trauma.
Honestly, I don't think we're.
We.
Another reason why I Wanted tobecome a coach because I don't want
to diagnose other people's traumas.
I just tell that we face themand how to make it through them.
And so, you know, a largeanswer of big T and the little T.
(32:01):
Yes.
Some can be much more extravagant.
But do I actually know thescientific background of evidence
if it relates to the body?
The same.
I don't.
I haven't done enough researchin that area.
But I think any type of traumawill affect us mentally and physically.
(32:22):
And I've had a child that hasbeen bullied and we dealt with all
of that.
Was it traumatic for her?
Absolutely.
Did it alter a lot of thingsfor her at a very young age?
Absolutely.
So did losing her dad.
So there's a lot of factorsthat you can play into trauma that
(32:43):
you may not see.
The big picture of all oflife's events.
I don't know.
I think that might answer alittle bit of it.
But I think ultimately ourbody, you know, kind of like the
book the body keeps us for.
Our bodies, our minds, oursouls, really know when we're hurt.
And that pain and hurt canalter a lot of things.
(33:09):
Physically, psychologically,emotionally, and even spiritually.
Yeah.
I just don't want to have totell people, yes, that is a trauma.
No, that's not a trauma.
No.
So I've.
I feel you on that.
I feel you.
Like, yeah, maybe that's whywe're coaches, not doctors.
(33:30):
Like, we're like, no, we justwant to get to the root of how it
makes you feel and how youneed to move forward.
Like, that is, that's, that's,that's a beautiful point.
Like, let's help you through it.
It doesn't matter how big orsmall it is.
It's something that affectsyou and how can it help you.
So I appreciate you sharing that.
As you've moved into havingyour own business and dealing with
(33:53):
your own trauma and your ownpain, loss and grief, how has it
been helpful in the process ofbuilding a business?
Like, I know this.
I personally feel thatbusiness is quote, unquote personal
because everyone says businessis business.
And I'm like, like, I thinkthere are aspects of business that
are actually business.
(34:14):
Business, like a contract,yes, that's totally business.
Right.
But like how we interact withour clients, what we do to market,
what we do to sell, like howour values, like that's all coming
from a personal place.
Like, that's coming from avalues driven place.
And it's also coming from ourperspective, is coming from our lived
(34:36):
Experiences.
So you've shared with usthese, your story of your lived experience
of processing and goingthrough, and still going through
loss and grief, but alsorunning a business and living with
a chronic thing.
Right.
And so I'm curious on how hasthat shaped how you have decided
(34:58):
to run your business?
And is there anything youwould give as advice to someone who's
in that similar space?
So how it impacts my businessis a lot through my empathy for others.
So I know that patience, ittakes a lot to be patient and to
(35:22):
understand that there'sgrowth, but there's also people who
need a little more tender,loving care to understand they have
that inner purpose.
And so building a relationshipis really imperative to me, knowing
that I can be trusted in thisprocess and come alongside you to
(35:44):
empower you to be able to movethrough the process of growth.
Because it is a process andthere's not like a standpoint.
It's just knowing that we'reall going to get there.
It's just everybody's time is different.
So building my business, Yes.
I am not a business, which isbusiness person.
(36:07):
I'm a person.
And so it probably impacts mesome, you know, because I'm still
learning the business mindset,so to speak, because I'm more of
a people person and emotional person.
And so my love and kindnessisn't always the best thing in business
(36:34):
when you have to make thosedefinitive answers.
Right.
But I'm learning and I'mgrowing in that area.
And so your second questionwas, how could I help other people
understand that in harmonizingtheir business?
I would say, I would say maybeincorporate your own values, what's
(36:55):
most important to you and, andhow you really want to see it fit
into your business.
So if you're not, you know,that contract business, dotted line
kind of person, which I'm not,I, I would say that you'll start
to learn your flow.
You'll start to understandwhat emotions you can bring forward
(37:19):
and what emotions you mightjust need to hold on to and maybe
process later.
So self awareness is reallyimportant when you become a business
owner too.
Absolutely.
To also manage those.
Right.
Like, okay, I'm aware of them.
This is hard even when you'recoaching and then becoming able to
(37:43):
manage those and to becomepatient even with yourself and your
clients through the process sothat you can be empathetic, you know,
and know that, that you'reeach going to take something away
from the process.
So, yeah, I think that would,that would be it for me.
Yeah.
No, I love this process myself.
(38:05):
I promise yeah, yeah, I think,I think that's, I think I would say
when I'm thinking and hearingyou, because I know you've just like,
as a, like a coachingbusiness, you're just kind of starting
in that lane, but you have somuch other experience in helping
other people, like trend, I'msure, like move through transitions
(38:27):
of loss and grief while tryingto find a job or while starting a
business.
Maybe like there is givingyourself permission that things of
what you thought might look acertain way might feel a different
way and might ultimately looka different way because of your loss.
Right.
Because of your grief.
I think that's, that's a hardthing for us to, to accept.
(38:54):
You know, there's, there's ahard place of acceptance when it
comes to that.
I'm curious if, if someonewere listening and they currently
already have a business andthey're already doing what they thought
they were doing and thenthey're in that place where you were
at one point where it's likethis loss unexpectedly happened.
And now I view thingsdifferently, I feel about things
(39:17):
differently.
You know, some people willwonder, do I just pause everything?
Do I like tear everything downand just figure it out?
What would you share withsomeone who's in that space, who's
trying to figure out this haschanged how I view everything or
how I feel about everything,what to do or what not to do in that
(39:40):
circumstance?
Well, I guess it would bedifferent for everybody.
So for me it would lookdifferent from the next person.
And, and I don't think I couldgo down the path of just saying,
you know, go this route, youknow, back to the blueprint, go this
route.
Because this is, this is whatworked for me.
(40:01):
I think it's kind ofnavigating and embracing all of the
changes that you're going through.
And for me, embracing was, was learning.
Obviously that's where Istarted, you know, started books
and courses and justunderstanding the basics.
I then wanted to incorporateself improvement and what that looked
like for me, and that was alsochange and learning new ways of doing
(40:26):
something or understandingsomething and setting myself goals
along the way.
I then had to incorporate thatmovement because I didn't want all
of the pain stuck in my body.
And so I then incorporatedphysical movement, which was like
yoga, Pilates.
I would even YouTube, youknow, somatic breath work and get
(40:48):
my body moving in the processand motivation, which was more on
the spiritual level for me.
I think it's, I don't, I don'thave like a, a step by step process
for somebody, because like Isaid, everybody is different.
But being able to embrace thechange, being able to reflect on
(41:09):
what you've been through andwhat you're going through, including
the pain, including thestruggle, sometimes it looks or feels
like defeat.
But just reminding yourselfthat I can get myself back up and
I can do this again, even ifthat's, you know, hey, this morning
I'm.
I know something we say a lotis just getting up to brush your
(41:32):
teeth during really hard grief days.
That's accomplishment and notnegating the fact that small accomplishments
will then gain upon each otherand you'll continue to grow and you'll
continue to incorporatesomething new and strengthen yourself
every day.
(41:52):
So I would say also kind ofadapting, you know, adapting to change
because that's, I think that'sreally big for people.
Just change and learning howto embrace it.
Yeah, yeah.
And I, I like how you'resaying, like there isn't.
(42:14):
What that looks like for youisn't necessarily the same thing
it looks like for somebody else.
However, I do still hear arelatively guide on moving through
something like that, which iskind of like a resting period of
realizing, okay, whatever thislooks like and like identifying what
(42:35):
your body or your, what youneed out of this, where you want
to go with this, and then justreally embracing that however it's
going to look, it's okay.
There's not a, there's not aright or wrong to your grief.
There's not a right or wrongto the decisions you currently are
going to make in that space.
(42:55):
It's just trying to figure outwhat is good for you.
And I think sometimes thattakes permission.
That takes permission to giveyourself that space to grieve or
to get up out of the bed andbrush your teeth.
Right.
So I love that you're sharinglike it's going to look different,
but it's a beautiful thing tojust allow, really.
(43:19):
It's just allowing what is tobe and deciding what you're going
to do.
Yeah, so.
So I do have like a little process.
So my theory is I, I say applyand ends with an I.
So knowledging, acknowledgingwhere you are, who you are and what
(43:39):
you want.
And sometimes it can be reallyhard even acknowledging the beginning.
Actually an event justoccurred or a pain is coming.
It can be really hard.
Pausing to reflect and yourintercession, your breathing, just
understanding, you know, whereyou're at purpose.
(44:02):
It's, it's that inner desire,the intention and the direction that
you want to go.
And then love, loving yourselfunconsciously, consciously and Subconsciously
in that process.
And then, you know, as youmove through that, then impacting
by giving back and upliftingand empowering.
(44:23):
And that's kind of where Ifind that I am.
Continue to go around theprocess, I think, you know, and I
kind of came up with thisbecause applying yourself is important.
And then being able to giveback to those and knowing that no,
(44:45):
no way is perfect, but.
And if you have to come backand go back to the start.
I know in my dissertation, somy theory, my dissertation, it was.
It was like this circle that Idid a dissertation on.
Suicide, surviving spouses.
But there was always.
There's always a pointing backpoint where you hit here and you're
(45:06):
doing so well and you're growing.
And then an event occurs, right.
You find yourself, oh, no, I'mback at the beginning.
But always know that even whenyou find yourself back at the beginning,
there's still a way to keepmoving forward.
And so it was just reallybeautiful to hear the stories of
(45:26):
all the women I was able tointerview, their story of reflecting,
acknowledging, and then goingback and saying, I'm not.
I'm not done yet.
I want to keep growing.
So, yeah, yeah, I love that.
I. I love that.
And not just to kind of bringit into a little bit of a lighter,
(45:49):
lighter note.
That's true with Pilates too.
Like, you know, like, havebeen religious with Pilates and then
needed to take a break becauseof health or life and stuff, and
then gone back and afraid,petrified that it will feel like
I have never done this beforein my life.
Right.
And it's true, it feels like that.
(46:11):
But when you get into it, yourealize, oh, it's really.
My body still remembers whatthis is supposed to feel like.
It still remembers how to dothis thing.
There's a song recently thatI've been listening to, I think by
Helsey or something.
I can't think of who it is actually.
And it's the song.
It's like the theme song, oneof the theme songs from the Barbie
(46:31):
movie.
I know this is going way.
Nikita's going way over.
Okay, Way on another place.
But it's like there's a linein the song where it's like, I used.
I don't know what it feels tobe happy.
I used to know.
I will know, basically.
And I think we in general,with all things in life, when we
(46:54):
have to do that cycle and wehave to start back, quote unquote,
over it, that's the.
To me, for me personally, thestarting over at that Very beginning
part, again, is the mostchallenging mental thing because
it feels like a defeat.
It feels like you have messedsomething up and you've already messed
(47:15):
up already and you're going tostart over and it's going to be so
much harder.
But literally, it's just thathump of not allowing that belief
to stop you from starting back over.
That's the hardest part, in my opinion.
And so when I'm hearing yousay that about those who have some
event and something happensand they have to start this process
over again, it's just like Iwant them to also know.
(47:38):
It's like the hardest part islike the giving yourself permission
to quote, unquote, start over again.
But in reality, your body willremember what it needs to do.
Right?
And it's like Pilates.
I didn't want to go back toPilates, but I put my feet in the
straps and it's like, oh, weknow how to do this.
Like, it is.
(48:00):
Your body will not forget thethings that will serve you.
So just sharing that.
Yeah, that's actually an.
Another piece of why I want.
I'm actually going toeventually incorporate Pilates into
my practice.
So I'm working on my Pilatesright now certification and then
(48:22):
incorporate yoga and somaticbreath work because I find that all
of it is part of the process.
And.
And as you stated, the bodyknows, like, that comes from the
brain.
And I think it's the hippocampus.
It reminds us that, hey, we'vebeen here before for.
And it stores all, all of thatto remind us, hey, we can, you know,
(48:47):
we can get through this, wecan do this.
The amygdala is our emotionalpart, so they work together to help
us remind us.
Yeah, what are those emotionsthat brought you through and how
can you relate back to thoseemotions so that you can work through
the process, even if it'sPilates, it's going, your brain's
(49:09):
moving and it's going, oh,it's hard, it's hard.
And then you're going yoursecond or third time and going, oh,
yeah.
But I remember this and I didit again and I'm doing it again.
And so that's a significantrole of overcoming the fear.
Yeah.
Just not starting again.
So congratulations on thatbecause a lot of people stuck in
(49:31):
that and it's a really big challenge.
But you really do you.
That's a process of growth andthat's how your brain grows.
And that's another one of mythings, is this brain health.
So that's another thing I Ilike to coach on and in happiness.
I'm also writing a book on happiness.
So just everybody's view is different.
(49:54):
Yeah, it is a beautiful thing.
I tell people all the time.
I have a couple of clients whoI think a lot of us focus on grounding,
which I think is important.
But I also feel like we needto focus on releasing.
And I find to your point, partof this healing, like the movement,
breath work.
(50:15):
Movement is a form of release.
So a screaming and yelling and like.
So movement is a way of releasing.
Grounding is great to kind ofrecenter and like tell your nervous
system, we're safe, we're okay.
But we also store all of thatenergy energetically and that energy
has to go somewhere.
Right.
And so movement is a huge partof that.
(50:37):
So I love that you'reincorporating that part into your.
Into your practice orencouraging your clients to do that
because that has made all thedifference for me.
I'm like not doing it to likelose weight.
I'm doing it to like release.
And also it just makes me feel good.
Like I feel so much betterwhen I have that kind of release.
So it's powerful.
(50:59):
It is.
So what's coming up for you?
I hear you just said you'rehaving a book coming up.
What else is good that'shappening and tell us where we can
find you, silly.
So, yes, I am working on my book.
It's going to be Happiness isa Facade and growing my business
like I said earlier.
So I am working on mycertifications for Pilates, yoga
(51:22):
and then eventually breathwork to incorporate that.
You can find me atwww.growwithpurposecoach.com and
yeah, so I'm really excitedfor what's coming up and continuing
to grow this business.
Emotional Intelligence is anexceptional piece and I want people
to understand their emotionsthrough the pain and through.
(51:45):
Through all walks of life.
Right.
Not just for self, but for rthose around us.
But then I also want to helppeople process the pain or the trauma
or the hurts or the grief.
And that's through movement.
So that's why I really want tobuild the business so that people
can get a full understanding of.
Okay, here are my emotions.
(52:06):
This is brain health piece tohelp you understand what's the best
approach to health, where toeat for my brain and then movement.
So I want to incorporate awhole mind, body and soul practice
for people to.
To get healed.
I love that.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on and sharing your lived experience,
your story and your thoughtson how we can process and kind of
(52:31):
grow and keep growing throughthe grief and pain that we go through.
So thank you.
Thank you.
I appreciate you having me on.
That's a wrap for this episodeof Business with Chronic Illness.
If you would like to start andgrow an online coaching business
with me, head to the ShowNotes to click a link to book a sales
call and learn how to makemoney with chronic illness.
(52:53):
You can also check out ourwebsite@ww.CraftedToThrive.com for
this episode's Show Notes andjoin our email list to get exclusive
content where I coach you onhow to chronically grow a profitable
business while living withchronic illness.
Until next time, remember,yes, you are crafted to thrive.
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