November 14, 2025 • 32 mins
With iOS 26.2, Apple Podcasts will auto-generate chapters, support more chapter standards, and introduce timed links that surface as a banner at the right moment. We break down what this means for creators, how it compares to YouTube and Spotify, and why this move echoes Apple’s transcript strategy: respect what you provide, fill the gap when you don’t, and let you opt out if needed.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan (00:00):
All right, Apple is putting out one of its biggest
updates in years.
They had an announcement.
They said with iOS 26.2, we'reexcited to introduce even more
ways for your audience tointeract with your show with the
new chapters and timed linksfeatures.
So they're going to be addingum automatically generated
(00:20):
chapters and expanded chaptersupport and time links.
So I'm really excited aboutthese.
I think that some other peopleare very excited about them, but
I think that the there's otherswho have different opinions
that might not like the idea somuch.
Kevin (00:35):
We'll see.
Alban (00:36):
I don't know who would dislike this.
Chapter markers are reallynice.
You're listening to a podcast,it's rambling.
You might be listening to thispodcast and think it's rambling
and you want to jump to the nextsection.
And you can just click nextsection.
They're great on YouTube.
They're great on podcasts.
Now they're going to be greateven on podcasts that don't want
to specify the chapter markersthemselves.
(00:58):
And it seems like Apple didthis with transcripts before,
where they said, hey, we'regoing to respect the transcript
if you have it.
But if not, we're going togenerate it for you, unless you
say you don't want it.
And I think it lowered thebarrier to entry so much.
You actually had to go out ofyour way to say no transcripts
for my episodes.
That pretty much everybody wasexcited about them and people
(01:20):
were willing to create their ownto make sure they got it 100%
accurate if they really wantedit that way.
And I think we're going to getthat the same with chapter
markers.
You know, I think it just makesApple Podcasts a better app.
Uh, Spotify does some of thesethings, YouTube does some of
these things.
It's going to be really nice tohave an ecosystem where
chapters are expected in mostmajor podcasting apps.
Kevin (01:42):
This is a little bit surprising to me because it
seemed to me that Apple wasmoving away from their affection
for podcast chapters.
In between, I think OS theyused to be called like 15, 16,
17, and then it went to 26.
Is that right?
17, the last low number, andthey jumped to the years.
Yeah.
Somewhere in there, they kindof deprioritized like access to
(02:04):
chapters.
It used to be pretty easy toget to chapters for episodes
that had them, and now it's alittle bit more difficult.
And I thought, well, the Appleteam must not like chapters very
much because they're making ita little bit harder to get to
them.
And then lo and behold, it'sthe complete opposite is true.
So what I'm hoping is thatmaybe we're going to see them
getting all the pieces in placeto really fully support chapters
(02:26):
in a great way.
And then once all that'sworking, all the kinks are
worked out in an updatedversion.
Hopefully down the road,chapters are going to be more
front and center again.
But either way, I'm not tryingto spoil this update.
This is a fantastic update.
As luck would have it, we justrolled out full like chapter
image support for Apple Podcastsin the ID3 tag a couple weeks
(02:46):
ago.
And it's not a wasted effortbecause they still do read
those, but they will also nowread these JSON chapters, which
is the podcast namespacechapters tag that we're using.
So we didn't kind of like haveto do that to get Apple Podcast
support since they're supportingboth now, but it's still a nice
update because there are someother third-party apps that are
very popular, like Overcast andPocket Cast, that are still
(03:08):
lagging behind a little bit.
And so the ID3 images nowprovide chapter artwork for
Overcast and Pocket Cast, eventhough Apple Podcasts doesn't
require that anymore.
Alban (03:20):
Do you remember there's like this XKCD comic that's like
a problem?
There's 17 standards in theworld, and someone's like, we
have to figure out a solution.
And the guy's like, here's thenew standard.
And then it's like problem.
Now there's 18 standards in theworld.
And like, whenever we come upwith a standard, the idea is
this will be the one.
But the problem is thateveryone needs to coalesce.
(03:41):
And I think with JSON chaptersare by far and away the best.
But then we've also got thesepod love chapters.
We've also got some people whodo it in 93 tags.
We've also got some people whonow are doing it through
descriptions.
And really what we've done isBusprout will support all of
them, Apple will support all ofthem.
And you're not a hundredpercent sure, even people who
(04:02):
are as in the industry as muchas us, everyone's not a hundred
percent sure off the top oftheir head which apps support
which of the three, fourversions that are out there.
Jordan (04:11):
Yeah.
Alban (04:11):
And it would just be really nice if everybody would
just get on board with JSONchapters, because there's so
many benefits there over andabove all the other options.
Jordan (04:21):
Yeah.
Kevin (04:21):
I agree.
It would it would make ourlives a lot easier for sure.
Alban (04:24):
So does this would make the second uh thing that Apple
has adopted from uh podcasting2.0, right?
Um, well, third, if you countthe uh TXT tag.
Oh, that's right.
So TXT was the like way toauthenticate the you own a
podcast.
Right.
And then transcripts.
Yep.
(04:44):
And then now here are chaptermarkers, which is funny because
I remember when podcasting 2.0happened and podcast standards,
and we were working with thepodcast index, and what we kept
hearing was, well, it doesn'tmatter until Apple supports it,
and Apple will never support itbecause they hate stuff like
this.
And Apple's not only justsupported it, they seem to have
(05:07):
improved by saying, look, evenfor people who are podcasts that
don't go out of their way toimprove their uh listeners'
experience, we're gonna figureout an automated solution on top
of it.
Right.
Jordan (05:19):
Yeah.
Kevin (05:19):
It's a very similar approach that they did with
transcripts, right?
They said transcripts aregreat, and some podcasters are
providing transcripts.
And for those that do, we'rehappy to support those and
display those in the app in abeautiful way.
But if you don't, we wanteveryone to have transcripts.
And so we will auto-generatetranscripts.
Of course, you can turn thisoff if you don't want a
(05:40):
transcript for whatever reason.
But every podcast will get atranscript.
I'm sorry, every episode willget a transcript.
You can provide your own if youwant.
And they're taking the sameapproach with chapters.
So every podcast episode willget chapters.
Now I know you can turn theseoff just like you can
transcripts.
Jordan (05:56):
Yep.
Kevin (05:56):
I think that you they're separate toggles.
Am I right, Jordan?
Like you could turn off thetranscript and you could still
get chapters.
Jordan (06:03):
Yeah, and and you can do it on the show and the episode
level.
Right.
So if you want chapters turnedoff for like a specific episode,
for so for example, if uh Applegoes bananas on our quick cast
and adds like 10 chaptermarkers, and I go, This is a
nightmare, I can turn it off forthe quick cast because we don't
normally put chapter markers inour quick cast.
(06:24):
So that would prompt ApplePodcasts to do that for us in
lieu of us having our ownchapter markers that we've
provided.
Kevin (06:32):
If you turn them off at the Apple level and then you
provide your own, do they stillshow up?
Alban (06:37):
Yes.
You're just turning off theApple auto-generated version.
Jordan (06:41):
Yeah, they still show up, but you can turn off the
automatically created ones.
So especially if we're probablygonna have to turn ours off
because we have the quick caststhat I don't do any chapter
markers for because it's a shortepisode.
It's it doesn't make sense tohave chapter markers.
But our main huge podcast, likeit's an hour long.
And so we do have chaptermarkers in those ones.
And so it would make sense forus to turn off the automatically
(07:04):
generated chapter markers forour podcast.
Um, I think that there's somepodcasts that it's not gonna
matter to them because they havechapter markers for all their
episodes, or maybe they don'thave time to do chapters and
they're like, great, someoneelse is gonna do it for me.
That's awesome.
Um, and so they might want toleave it on.
But there are some things, I'mnot sure exactly how it works,
(07:25):
and I probably won't know untilit's implemented.
But I think that you couldpotentially in the episode level
edit the chapters.
I know with the transcript, youcan't edit the transcript that
Apple provides.
But I think the chapters youwill be able to edit, but I
don't think that you can haveadd like chapter images or
(07:45):
anything like that.
So I think you need to haveBuzzsprout if you want chapter
images.
And then also if you havedynamic content inserted, I
don't think that it will beproperly reflected in Apple.
I think you would have to havethat in Buzzsprout, right?
Alban (08:00):
Yeah, I would just say if you're going to do something
that's dynamic, yeah.
Then I would use the systemthat's inserting the dynamic
content should be in control ofthe chapters.
So in our case, that'sBuzzsprout.
We're the ones sticking in apiece of dynamic content.
So we know it's 30 secondslong, thus, we need to shift all
the chapters after it 30seconds back.
Jordan (08:20):
Yeah.
Alban (08:21):
That's why, you know, YouTube style chapters works for
YouTube because they know weknow how long this ad is, so we
can shift everything around.
It doesn't work for podcasts inYouTube uh as well.
But technically, I'm a littlebit off right there, but the the
point is still the same.
Like you want the system that'sinserting the content to also
(08:41):
be the ones in control of theway the timestamps work.
Jordan (08:44):
I mean, that's the same thing with uh Spotify.
So, Spotify, you can do thosetimed chapter markers in the
episode description and theysupport that, but it doesn't
work if you have dynamic contentin Buzz sprout and it gets
updated in Spotify too, becausethen those are gonna be all
wonky.
Alban (08:58):
So I was talking to Steven Robles about this because
he was concerned with some ofhis subscriber only episodes
that are ad free.
And so he was thinking maybead-free versions because they're
shorter, wouldn't have theright chapter markers.
And I was like, Yeah, it soundslike that doesn't work.
But Jordan, you have it here inthe outline, Apple has
(09:20):
announced additional support forepisode chapters in
subscriber-only episodes aswell.
So what does what does thatmean?
Jordan (09:26):
So they are saying that they are supporting chapters in
subscriber-only episodes.
They didn't support them beforefor whatever reason, but I
think it is limited when itcomes to ad-free episodes
because ad-free episodes, whenyou do the ad-free version of
it, it's basically like you'reuploading two different versions
(09:47):
of an episode.
So you have two files for oneepisode.
And so I think that is whatbreaks it.
But the rest of them should befine.
If you have like bonus episodesor early access, those should
work with the chapters as well.
Alban (10:00):
Yeah.
So I think what we've come tois that chapters were never
supported in subscriber-onlycontent in any format.
And now they're supported, butthey may not have as much
support as we'd want because Ithink they can break if you've
got different audio files for asubscriber version or a uh free
(10:21):
version.
So, like ad-free versions won'tbe as good, or extended cuts
may be off.
So I don't know if Apple willtry to figure that automatically
and they will run it themselvesand come up with chapters, or
they'll provide a way for us todifferentiate.
Hey, the subscriber-only audioshould have this version or that
(10:41):
version.
It's a little wonky.
It's also something only peoplelike us care about because I
think we're really talking aboutthe 0.01% who have ad-free
versions of episodes anyway.
Jordan (10:53):
Yeah.
Alban (10:54):
Um, so the New York Times and NPR, they can reach out to
Apple and try to figure out thisone out.
I don't think we have too manypeople, um, probably besides
Steven on bus route that aredealing with this.
Yeah.
Kevin (11:06):
Let me talk about one thing though.
There are three different ways,correct me if I'm wrong, three
different ways to get chaptersto display an Apple Podcasts
according to this new update.
One, the new chapters tag, two,the ID3 tags.
That's the one that's beenthere forever.
The third one is puttingtimestamps in your description.
Okay.
This is mostly popularized byfirst YouTube, and I think
(11:27):
Spotify adopted it as well.
Jordan (11:28):
Yeah.
Kevin (11:29):
Now, Spotify, we do support chapters in Spotify, but
we don't use that method.
We use a standard called thethe Podlov Simple Chapters,
which is very similar, exceptinstead of displaying it in the
description, we display it in anRSS tag in your RSS feed.
So it's not junking up thatdescription.
And that's the key point thatI'm trying to make here is that
uh this third option of puttingtimestamps in your description
(11:51):
really does junk up thedescription, in my opinion.
Jordan (11:54):
Yeah.
Kevin (11:55):
But I don't like this.
I like the idea of separatingthe stuff out.
Now I can see a benefit that ifyou push your podcast into
YouTube and I think through theRSS integration, it then brings
in the description.
And if you have it in the rightformat, this you know,
timestamp, is it like timestampcolon and then whatever the name
of the title or whatever is?
(12:15):
Then when your podcast goesover to YouTube, those link up,
right?
Uh-huh.
And they work.
But in the podcasting world,there's a better experience,
which is you can keep thedescription field clean and it
can just literally be adescription of your podcast.
And then most really goodpodcast apps have a really nice
interface to be able to displaythe chapters and let you jump
around.
I don't know.
(12:36):
It just feels confusing.
Like as a podcaster who wantsto create content that is uh
displayed best in the podcastingapps, but then also I want to
push it to YouTube.
What do I do?
Like, what's the best solutionhere?
Alban (12:49):
I I think the best answer is I would put it in the JSON.
I would do it through theBuzzsprout chapters.
I'd keep my description cleanand then I would just accept
that YouTube will figure it outon their own and they'll come up
with the chapters.
I wouldn't try to control themover on the YouTube side.
(13:09):
I'm not as against the YouTubeones because of the format.
I kind of like that's all therein plain text, and it you could
just put the timestamp and thenput the chapter title and then
put all the information aboutthat chapter and that section of
the podcast all together.
Jordan (13:26):
So you can integrate it.
Alban (13:27):
Yeah, I'm I actually like that.
Jordan (13:29):
Yeah.
Alban (13:29):
But it doesn't work for podcasts where the audio file is
changing.
And the audio file might changebecause we changed it on your
behalf by putting in a buzz browad.
It could change if you're onanother host and you've got like
some vast tags, so you have noclue what's in there by based on
different listeners.
It could change because you putdynamic content or you upload a
(13:51):
new audio file.
There's way too many ways theaudio changes.
That's a huge benefit we havein podcasting that you don't
have in the YouTube world.
And so I like where we're at.
I don't really hate it becauseit looks cluttered up.
I just hate it because you'respecifying here's where the
chapters markers are, knowing50-50 chance they're not going
(14:12):
to be correct when someonestarts clicking on it.
And now it just is a badexperience because they expect
it to go to the right spot.
Kevin (14:18):
Yeah.
I love the fact that in Buzzsprout, we do shift the chapters
depending on which dynamiccontent clips are getting put in
or put out.
But at the end of the day, tome, it doesn't even, I don't
know, it doesn't, it's notterrible if I click on a chapter
and I'm off by like 30 seconds.
Like it did the bulk of thework for me.
It got me in the ballpark.
And so there are a lot ofpodcasts that use chapters that
(14:41):
I know have these programmaticads and stuff.
And when I click a chapter, I'mlike, oh, that's they're not
starting the topic right away,or I'm already 20 seconds into
the topic or something.
I get it.
But again, I'm in podcast tech,so it doesn't bother me as much
as it might bother just astandard typical listener who
doesn't understand why itdoesn't go right to the right
spot.
Alban (14:58):
Yeah, but if you're a podcaster who took the time to
specify a chapter and say,here's where it is, here's
exactly when I start thissection.
And then your tech solutionbreaks it because there was an
ad, and you're like, Well, youknew I was gonna use an ad.
Like I'm trying to make somemoney here.
Yeah, I would just I'd bepretty frustrated about it.
It's one thing if it's YouTubethat's doing its best guess and
(15:21):
it's pretty close.
I'm like, oh, good job,YouTube.
Thank you for that.
But it's a totally differentthing when I took the time to
create it and somebody elsebroke it.
Jordan (15:30):
Yeah, it it could take like an hour.
Kevin (15:32):
I mean, YouTube is spot on because they like literally
jump you out of your video intoan ad video, and then they come
right back and resume yourepisode.
Yeah.
The problem with the way thatprogrammatic ads work in
podcasting is they go to theseum sort of like auction sites
where they're dynamically on thefly trying to find an ad for
you and they're trying to findthe best ad that's the best
(15:53):
match for your audience at thehighest CPM, and they're trying
and sometimes they find one andsometimes they don't.
And so you can't even plan inadvance of, oh, this is a
30-second ad spot if you canfind one, but sometimes they
find one and sometimes theydon't.
Right.
So there's no good way.
I think we just have to be okaywith it being a little bit
janky sometimes.
Jordan (16:10):
While we're on the uh topic of timestamps in the show
notes, there's another featurehere called timed links.
So if you include a timestampwith a link to content that is
in the Apple ecosystem, so it'slike Apple Music, Apple News,
Shazam, Apple Podcasts, anythinglike that, the link will appear
(16:31):
as a banner below the episodeand podcast title on the now
playing screen.
And it also will show on thetranscript as a link and then on
the episode detail page.
Alban (16:42):
Yeah, I thought you were gonna say, uh, speaking of kind
of janky.
Jordan (16:47):
What?
Alban (16:48):
Okay, this is just Apple, like pure Apple.
Jordan (16:50):
I love it.
Alban (16:51):
The links look great, it's really nice that a link
pops up.
It looks beautiful.
It only works for things thatuh help other Apple related
sites.
And, you know, I love Apple.
I've got tons, I've had allthese iPhones and all this.
I spent way too much moneythere, but I'm not referencing
Apple News URLs.
(17:11):
Um, if I'm linking to apodcast, I'm trying to link to
their website because noteverybody uses Apple Podcasts.
Jordan (17:17):
Uh-huh.
Alban (17:17):
I don't use Apple Music.
And so if we were to drop linksin, and you're just not going
to get these are only going toshow up for people who are super
Apple centric, talking topeople that are completely Apple
centric.
And it adds like, I don't know,a hundredth of a percent of
market share to Apple Books, andit's really useless for
(17:39):
everybody else.
It looks really good.
I just wish that we could do itfor everyone.
But I also get why they don'tdo it for everyone.
And so I don't think we'regonna end up using it at all.
Jordan (17:48):
I mean, Spotify did the exact same thing.
Remember, this was like a yearor two ago.
Like you can link to Spotifyartists or you can link to
Spotify audiobooks, things likethat.
They did they did the exactsame thing.
And I actually think that Iprefer Apple's way of doing it
just because it's more varied inwhat kind of, I don't know,
(18:09):
sites they offer.
Alban (18:10):
Yeah, I think that probably I'm sure if we went
back and found if we ever talkedabout it on the podcast, I
would have said the same thingand then like yeah, I understand
this is the way platformsalways work.
They want to keep everyone ontheir own sites forever and
ever.
Amen.
And like the way that the webwould be better is if we could
link out.
And so it's nice for the peoplewho are extremely Apple
(18:33):
centric.
I'm probably not gonna thinkabout it again.
I'm gonna be positive aboutthis.
You guys thought I was gonna benegative, I'm gonna be
positive.
Kevin (18:39):
No, you just saw that I did the negative.
So you can see Alban alreadytook on my negative.
Jordan (18:43):
Yeah.
Kevin (18:44):
Here's the positive side.
Like, if we were going to linkto a podcast episode in our
chapters, we are certainly goingto find the most universal way
to link to that that we can.
Jordan (18:54):
Right?
Kevin (18:54):
Alban just described that.
And it's he's right.
But here's what we can also dowe can also just talk about the
podcast.
We can talk about dreamfulbedtime stories available in
Apple Podcasts and anywhere elseyou get your podcasts.
And according to this release,Apple will see that we talked
about that in the description.
They will automatically link toit.
Jordan (19:13):
Yeah.
Kevin (19:13):
They will automatically create one of these time links.
We don't have to.
So we can in our chapters, wecan go create a link around the
same time and put a link toJordan's website, Dreamful
Bedtime Stories website.
But I think Apple Podcasts willstill display, because they
found it in our transcript, thelink.
So for people who are listeningin Apple Podcasts, you're gonna
get that benefit of the timedlink.
(19:35):
For anybody listening outside,you're gonna get our chapter
link.
And I think that's gonna bevery cool.
So any, any if we mention abook, Apple's gonna pop up a
link to that book.
If we talk about anotherpodcast, they're gonna pop up a
link to that podcast.
If we talk about a news storythat's available on Apple News
or Oh, and by the way, Shazam?
What the heck is Shazam likeApple bought Shazam?
Okay, but why haven't theyrenamed it yet?
(19:56):
That's the one weird, crazyproduct name in the whole Apple
ecosystem.
Shazam.
Alban (20:00):
They still have like beats, they still call Beats
Beats.
It's still a little bit moreApple y than Shazam.
Shazam just doesn't sound Appleto me at all.
Okay, so wait, this actuallysounds better.
I'm gonna give Apple a bit ofcredit back.
So I'm never going to go makethese links.
But if what's happening is I'mlistening on Apple Podcasts and
(20:21):
I hear a like advertisement foranother podcast, you know, kind
of one of these promo swap, andit finds the URL in links and it
puts it on the screen.
Yes.
As a banner, that's gonna benice.
Kevin (20:35):
Yeah.
Think about with Buzzsproutads.
We sell two types of ads,product ads and podcast ads.
So if you're advertising yourpodcast in Buzzsprout ads and it
gets dynamically inserted intosomebody else's podcast, and
then somebody's listening tothat, the ad comes up through
the Apple Podcast app.
Hopefully now the link to thatpodcast should pop right up when
your Buzzsproud ad plays.
Alban (20:56):
Okay, so this is something that makes sense for
it to be automatic.
And I would then recommenddon't put them in yourself, let
them be automatic.
Right.
Because it's only going to showup for somebody who's listening
in Apple Podcasts.
If they're listening to ApplePodcasts, they want the link to
the other show in ApplePodcasts.
Right.
They want it to pop up in theplayer right there.
Kevin (21:17):
Yeah, you're hoping it shows up.
I mean, it sounds like, I mean,just like with all
transcription technology,sometimes it's going to find it,
sometimes it may not.
If you want to guarantee thatit shows up, you would create
the link yourself directly tothat posting in Apple Podcast.
Then it's sure to show up.
Jordan (21:31):
Especially if there's a podcast that has a similar name,
such as BuzzCast, where thereare other Buzzcasts in the Yeah,
it's the Buzzcast Podcast byBuzz Sprout.
Kevin (21:44):
I want to go back and listen to this episode now in
Apple Podcast and see if allthese links are popping up.
Jordan (21:49):
Okay.
So, and and also to be clear,the linking to uh other podcasts
is going to be a limited betawithin just like English
speaking podcasts in like theUS.
I think they're just testing itout with only podcasts.
They're not testing it out withnews stories, they're not
testing it out with music oranything like that yet.
(22:09):
I think the podcast linking,like the automatic podcast
linking is kind of like asandbox thing that they're
doing.
The other ones, if you do wantto link to like a news story or
anything like that, you willhave to manually do that.
But my hope is that this couldbe a really good stepping stone
to linking to things that areoutside of the Apple Podcast
(22:29):
ecosystem.
I'm hoping that at some pointwhen we do a link in other
podcast players, maybe they pickup this sort of thing.
I know you guys are shakingyour head.
No, I get it.
But my optimistic little hopehere is that at some point we
will be able to link tosomething.
And even in like Overcast orPocket Cast, a nice little
banner will pop up.
It'll be gorgeous.
Alban (22:50):
Overcast will let you do this now with chapters.
That's true.
When you have a chapter with alink, it will just give you the
title and then that's a URL.
Yeah, you can just type thechannel.
I don't think Apple will do itfor two reasons.
Reason one is it's Apple, andthey are very good at saying,
hey, we provide a greatexperience, we're going to keep
you inside the ecosystem.
But the big reason that they'renever going to get over is
(23:14):
people are going to link totheir spammy websites to
something that's inappropriate,that's not on brand for Apple.
And Apple does not want to beinvolved in your casino
business.
And so if someone screenshotsit and thinks Apple is
supporting this or they'replatforming this gross speech or
something, they're just gonnaApple takes the hit and they
(23:36):
can't really explain.
No, this podcast actuallywasn't even in our directory.
It's just someone got a URL.
They can't, it's just like aSafari.
It doesn't matter.
I don't know, it doesn't lookgood for them.
Kevin (23:47):
I mean, they they let you link in the description.
So you can link to your spammyuh casino site in your
description.
And I do.
And Alban does all the time,and he drives a ton of traffic.
The difference here is thatthey're sort of highlighting
certain links, right?
They're they're promoting thema little bit, making them a
little bit more obvious, sort oftrying to draw more traffic in
(24:08):
this direction.
And I think it makes sense forlinks that benefit them.
It doesn't make sense for everylink that you might have in a
chapter or something.
I think it's fine.
Let's like wait and see.
I don't want to steal Jordan'swish.
Uh, I know that at the end ofthe year we always do a holiday
wish episode because we don'tlike predictions.
So maybe that will be your wishfor 2026.
But I don't think Apple has anyhard, fast rules like we're not
(24:30):
gonna allow you to link to anyother website, and they
certainly let you do that inyour description.
It's just which ones are theygoing to sort of elevate?
And they're not gonna elevate.
Yeah, they're not gonna elevatea link that they're not
confident is safe.
Alban (24:41):
Right.
Okay, so what if uh I mean nowwhen people write in, I'm now
I'm really talking myself intothese links because they do look
nice.
All right, what if when peoplewrite in to fan mail and we talk
about it, we should make aneffort to clearly say the name
of the show, and it'd be cool.
So if when you know Sparkling Dwrites in, you can get her
(25:02):
podcast pop up with a link toit.
So anyone who does listen tothis and has heard the same, you
know, names a few times, thengo, oh, that's D.
Oh, okay.
I gotta go click the LateBloomer Actor podcast.
I need to go check and they canjust go flip through everybody
who writes into the show.
Jordan (25:20):
That is so cool.
I love the idea.
All right, so you've heard ourtakes on chapter markers and
timed links.
So if you decide that this isnot for you, you can actually
disable both features on theshow level on your Apple Podcast
Connect dashboard.
Um, I don't know when this isgonna be available.
I don't think it's availableyet, but you just go to your
(25:42):
show's availability tab and thendeselect the option to display
the links or the chapterscreated by Apple Podcasts.
And then you can also do it onthe individual episodes too.
And that's just going into theepisode editing and select which
you want to use.
So um, well, this is a verylong quick cast, I think.
Kevin (25:59):
So I think we're gonna need chapters.
Jordan (26:01):
I think we're gonna need chapters.
So until next time, thanks forlistening and keep podcasting.
Alban (26:12):
All right, I bought a new microphone.
Is this a little Olympus LSPfive, just a handheld recorder?
And I love this.
So I bought it initiallybecause if I go for walks and I
want to not take my phone whenI'm trying to think through a
problem, but sometimes I want totake notes or take voice memos.
(26:32):
And so I have this and I recordstuff for when I come back and
I start typing up my notes.
And a week ago, I had it and mydaughter saw it, and I went,
Oh, let's record a podcast.
And we just grabbed it and heldit between us and told like
some story that had justhappened.
And they were so cute.
It's so cute to listen back tofive minutes of a story with
(26:55):
your kid.
Jordan (26:56):
Yeah.
Alban (26:56):
And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna love these.
I should do more of them.
And so what I'm doing is I'mgonna take this to Thanksgiving
this year.
When I first started working atBuzz Sprout, I don't know,
three of my four grandparentswere still alive and all lucid.
And I remember thinking Ishould record podcasts with them
and never did, and missed outon them telling a bunch of
(27:16):
stories that I really loved.
So, what I'm doing this year isI'm just gonna try to sit down
with everyone in the family andget little five-minute stories
and go, oh, like there's thisfamily story of my grandfather
in Korea.
And so I'm gonna ask my dad totell it.
And I'm gonna ask my mom astory about her mom who I never
met.
And I was just thinking of allthese little family stories, and
(27:38):
I was like, wouldn't it be fun?
Not heavy, like get them on fortwo hours, but just like, hey,
we're having coffee, give handthem the mic and say, tell that
story for three minutes, and youjust got these little clips.
Jordan (27:50):
That is such a fun idea.
Alban (27:51):
Yeah.
And Thanksgiving is like thetime because we're all kind of
hanging around each other for afew days.
You've got halftime in themiddle of the football game or
whatever you're doing, or justhaving coffee in the morning,
and just say, Let me hand youthis.
We're not setting up mics,we're not doing a big thing.
I'm not no production valuebecause it's only for really the
(28:12):
seven people in my family.
Jordan (28:14):
Yeah.
Alban (28:15):
And I don't know, maybe I'll throw it on a podcast and
just send them the URL so theycould listen to it.
But that would just be it.
It would just be a podcast thatwasn't out there in the world
except for people in the family.
And whenever my daughter and Irecord a little story, or I get
my dad to record a short one, Icould just throw it on there for
anyone to listen to.
Jordan (28:35):
I love that.
There's those services and it'ssuper expensive, but there's
those services where you cangather stories from the family
and have it like put into abook.
And I think that this is aneven better option because it's
literally hearing the person'svoice as they tell the story.
I I much prefer this becauseI've thought about doing the
(28:57):
book thing.
I've thought about it, youknow, you all always around the
holidays, you hear these podcastads talking about I some story
service where they email a thingand at the end of the year they
get a book and it'shorrendously expensive for good
reason because I'm sure it'sgorgeously done.
But if you're on a budget, Imean, this is a much better
option.
Alban (29:17):
I think it's actually better.
So I played the podcast I didwith my daughter for my wife,
and it's so much more powerfulwith the voices.
Kevin (29:26):
Yeah.
Alban (29:26):
And I noticed this listening to videos of my
daughter years ago, where youjust where you film something
and you were like, Oh, I forgotthe baby talk that you used to
do.
Right.
Jordan (29:36):
Yeah.
Alban (29:36):
And I have old voicemails that my grandfather left me
before he passed.
And the voice is so powerful,it takes you right back to the
story.
It's what we we talk about thison every podcast.
And story worth for what theydo is cool.
Jordan (29:52):
Yeah.
Alban (29:53):
Uh, my sister bought it for my dad and mom a couple
years ago.
My mom, there's a book.
My dad, there are two reallyReally, really well told stories
in a book.
That's it.
He wrote two back and he wasputting so much effort in that
he didn't do any more.
Jordan (30:08):
Yeah.
Alban (30:09):
Um, but you know, I'm hoping to record a few of these.
I'll let you know uh what theupdates are after Thanksgiving.
Kevin (30:15):
This is this, I love the audio format.
One of my favorite things thatwe have from when our kids were
young is when my oldest child,she's a girl, was teaching my
middle child, her youngerbrother, how to pray.
The audio is wonderful.
I don't know why they recordedit, they just recorded a voice
memo of her doing it.
She did it on her own, butshe's teaching him how to pray,
which is the sweetest thingever, but he won't say what she
(30:36):
says.
She's like, please say this.
And then he says a little bit,and then she says, Say this.
And then he's saying stuffcompletely different.
And then she gets getting somad.
And so she's screaming at him.
She's trying to teach him howto do something so sweet.
But but their voices, liketheir voices change, kids'
voices change.
And and as adults, we don'tthink about this because we
interact with other adults allthe time, and whatever, it just
(30:57):
happens slowly over time.
But capturing those voices,like once they go, they're gone.
Like you won't hear that voiceagain.
And so I love the idea thatyou're capturing some of this on
audio.
And as a business benefit, I'dbe remiss not to mention
Buzzsprout has multi-podcastplans now that are so perfect
for things like this.
Yeah.
Like pop on the $39 fivepodcast plan, set up your one or
(31:21):
two podcasts that you do, likeas a real hobby, as something,
and then you still have morepodcasts that you can use to do
fun family things or experimentwith starting a podcast with one
of your children or whatever.
That is so fun.
That is one of the things thatwe wanted to do when we created
these multi-podcast plans isgive people some flexibility to
play without having to pay awhole bunch more.
Like it's already included inyour multi-podcast plan.
Jordan (31:43):
So that would actually be a really fun challenge.
I would love to hear if otherpeople have been inspired to
start podcasts with their familyor if they already have started
podcasts with their family.
Uh, we love to hear about it.
And you should tap the TexasShow link in the show notes to
tell us all about it.
Alban (31:58):
Yeah.
And I would, I would reallyjust say it doesn't have to be
good audio.
Like this is not don't cleanthe audio up.
It can just be, you know, holdyour phone up and do a voice
memo level audio because allyou're trying to capture is just
like the memory of their voice,how someone sounded on the
phone, and them telling thestory in their own words.
I don't know.
(32:18):
I've I've got two of these withmy daughter now.
I love both of them.
I'm gonna try to do a lot more.
All right, Apple is putting out one of its biggest
updates in years.
They had an announcement.
They said with iOS 26.2, we'reexcited to introduce even more
ways for your audience tointeract with your show with the
new chapters and timed linksfeatures.
So they're going to be addingum automatically generated
(00:20):
chapters and expanded chaptersupport and time links.
So I'm really excited aboutthese.
I think that some other peopleare very excited about them, but
I think that the there's otherswho have different opinions
that might not like the idea somuch.
Kevin (00:35):
We'll see.
Alban (00:36):
I don't know who would dislike this.
Chapter markers are reallynice.
You're listening to a podcast,it's rambling.
You might be listening to thispodcast and think it's rambling
and you want to jump to the nextsection.
And you can just click nextsection.
They're great on YouTube.
They're great on podcasts.
Now they're going to be greateven on podcasts that don't want
to specify the chapter markersthemselves.
(00:58):
And it seems like Apple didthis with transcripts before,
where they said, hey, we'regoing to respect the transcript
if you have it.
But if not, we're going togenerate it for you, unless you
say you don't want it.
And I think it lowered thebarrier to entry so much.
You actually had to go out ofyour way to say no transcripts
for my episodes.
That pretty much everybody wasexcited about them and people
(01:20):
were willing to create their ownto make sure they got it 100%
accurate if they really wantedit that way.
And I think we're going to getthat the same with chapter
markers.
You know, I think it just makesApple Podcasts a better app.
Uh, Spotify does some of thesethings, YouTube does some of
these things.
It's going to be really nice tohave an ecosystem where
chapters are expected in mostmajor podcasting apps.
Kevin (01:42):
This is a little bit surprising to me because it
seemed to me that Apple wasmoving away from their affection
for podcast chapters.
In between, I think OS theyused to be called like 15, 16,
17, and then it went to 26.
Is that right?
17, the last low number, andthey jumped to the years.
Yeah.
Somewhere in there, they kindof deprioritized like access to
(02:04):
chapters.
It used to be pretty easy toget to chapters for episodes
that had them, and now it's alittle bit more difficult.
And I thought, well, the Appleteam must not like chapters very
much because they're making ita little bit harder to get to
them.
And then lo and behold, it'sthe complete opposite is true.
So what I'm hoping is thatmaybe we're going to see them
getting all the pieces in placeto really fully support chapters
(02:26):
in a great way.
And then once all that'sworking, all the kinks are
worked out in an updatedversion.
Hopefully down the road,chapters are going to be more
front and center again.
But either way, I'm not tryingto spoil this update.
This is a fantastic update.
As luck would have it, we justrolled out full like chapter
image support for Apple Podcastsin the ID3 tag a couple weeks
(02:46):
ago.
And it's not a wasted effortbecause they still do read
those, but they will also nowread these JSON chapters, which
is the podcast namespacechapters tag that we're using.
So we didn't kind of like haveto do that to get Apple Podcast
support since they're supportingboth now, but it's still a nice
update because there are someother third-party apps that are
very popular, like Overcast andPocket Cast, that are still
(03:08):
lagging behind a little bit.
And so the ID3 images nowprovide chapter artwork for
Overcast and Pocket Cast, eventhough Apple Podcasts doesn't
require that anymore.
Alban (03:20):
Do you remember there's like this XKCD comic that's like
a problem?
There's 17 standards in theworld, and someone's like, we
have to figure out a solution.
And the guy's like, here's thenew standard.
And then it's like problem.
Now there's 18 standards in theworld.
And like, whenever we come upwith a standard, the idea is
this will be the one.
But the problem is thateveryone needs to coalesce.
(03:41):
And I think with JSON chaptersare by far and away the best.
But then we've also got thesepod love chapters.
We've also got some people whodo it in 93 tags.
We've also got some people whonow are doing it through
descriptions.
And really what we've done isBusprout will support all of
them, Apple will support all ofthem.
And you're not a hundredpercent sure, even people who
(04:02):
are as in the industry as muchas us, everyone's not a hundred
percent sure off the top oftheir head which apps support
which of the three, fourversions that are out there.
Jordan (04:11):
Yeah.
Alban (04:11):
And it would just be really nice if everybody would
just get on board with JSONchapters, because there's so
many benefits there over andabove all the other options.
Jordan (04:21):
Yeah.
Kevin (04:21):
I agree.
It would it would make ourlives a lot easier for sure.
Alban (04:24):
So does this would make the second uh thing that Apple
has adopted from uh podcasting2.0, right?
Um, well, third, if you countthe uh TXT tag.
Oh, that's right.
So TXT was the like way toauthenticate the you own a
podcast.
Right.
And then transcripts.
Yep.
(04:44):
And then now here are chaptermarkers, which is funny because
I remember when podcasting 2.0happened and podcast standards,
and we were working with thepodcast index, and what we kept
hearing was, well, it doesn'tmatter until Apple supports it,
and Apple will never support itbecause they hate stuff like
this.
And Apple's not only justsupported it, they seem to have
(05:07):
improved by saying, look, evenfor people who are podcasts that
don't go out of their way toimprove their uh listeners'
experience, we're gonna figureout an automated solution on top
of it.
Right.
Jordan (05:19):
Yeah.
Kevin (05:19):
It's a very similar approach that they did with
transcripts, right?
They said transcripts aregreat, and some podcasters are
providing transcripts.
And for those that do, we'rehappy to support those and
display those in the app in abeautiful way.
But if you don't, we wanteveryone to have transcripts.
And so we will auto-generatetranscripts.
Of course, you can turn thisoff if you don't want a
(05:40):
transcript for whatever reason.
But every podcast will get atranscript.
I'm sorry, every episode willget a transcript.
You can provide your own if youwant.
And they're taking the sameapproach with chapters.
So every podcast episode willget chapters.
Now I know you can turn theseoff just like you can
transcripts.
Jordan (05:56):
Yep.
Kevin (05:56):
I think that you they're separate toggles.
Am I right, Jordan?
Like you could turn off thetranscript and you could still
get chapters.
Jordan (06:03):
Yeah, and and you can do it on the show and the episode
level.
Right.
So if you want chapters turnedoff for like a specific episode,
for so for example, if uh Applegoes bananas on our quick cast
and adds like 10 chaptermarkers, and I go, This is a
nightmare, I can turn it off forthe quick cast because we don't
normally put chapter markers inour quick cast.
(06:24):
So that would prompt ApplePodcasts to do that for us in
lieu of us having our ownchapter markers that we've
provided.
Kevin (06:32):
If you turn them off at the Apple level and then you
provide your own, do they stillshow up?
Alban (06:37):
Yes.
You're just turning off theApple auto-generated version.
Jordan (06:41):
Yeah, they still show up, but you can turn off the
automatically created ones.
So especially if we're probablygonna have to turn ours off
because we have the quick caststhat I don't do any chapter
markers for because it's a shortepisode.
It's it doesn't make sense tohave chapter markers.
But our main huge podcast, likeit's an hour long.
And so we do have chaptermarkers in those ones.
And so it would make sense forus to turn off the automatically
(07:04):
generated chapter markers forour podcast.
Um, I think that there's somepodcasts that it's not gonna
matter to them because they havechapter markers for all their
episodes, or maybe they don'thave time to do chapters and
they're like, great, someoneelse is gonna do it for me.
That's awesome.
Um, and so they might want toleave it on.
But there are some things, I'mnot sure exactly how it works,
(07:25):
and I probably won't know untilit's implemented.
But I think that you couldpotentially in the episode level
edit the chapters.
I know with the transcript, youcan't edit the transcript that
Apple provides.
But I think the chapters youwill be able to edit, but I
don't think that you can haveadd like chapter images or
(07:45):
anything like that.
So I think you need to haveBuzzsprout if you want chapter
images.
And then also if you havedynamic content inserted, I
don't think that it will beproperly reflected in Apple.
I think you would have to havethat in Buzzsprout, right?
Alban (08:00):
Yeah, I would just say if you're going to do something
that's dynamic, yeah.
Then I would use the systemthat's inserting the dynamic
content should be in control ofthe chapters.
So in our case, that'sBuzzsprout.
We're the ones sticking in apiece of dynamic content.
So we know it's 30 secondslong, thus, we need to shift all
the chapters after it 30seconds back.
Jordan (08:20):
Yeah.
Alban (08:21):
That's why, you know, YouTube style chapters works for
YouTube because they know weknow how long this ad is, so we
can shift everything around.
It doesn't work for podcasts inYouTube uh as well.
But technically, I'm a littlebit off right there, but the the
point is still the same.
Like you want the system that'sinserting the content to also
(08:41):
be the ones in control of theway the timestamps work.
Jordan (08:44):
I mean, that's the same thing with uh Spotify.
So, Spotify, you can do thosetimed chapter markers in the
episode description and theysupport that, but it doesn't
work if you have dynamic contentin Buzz sprout and it gets
updated in Spotify too, becausethen those are gonna be all
wonky.
Alban (08:58):
So I was talking to Steven Robles about this because
he was concerned with some ofhis subscriber only episodes
that are ad free.
And so he was thinking maybead-free versions because they're
shorter, wouldn't have theright chapter markers.
And I was like, Yeah, it soundslike that doesn't work.
But Jordan, you have it here inthe outline, Apple has
(09:20):
announced additional support forepisode chapters in
subscriber-only episodes aswell.
So what does what does thatmean?
Jordan (09:26):
So they are saying that they are supporting chapters in
subscriber-only episodes.
They didn't support them beforefor whatever reason, but I
think it is limited when itcomes to ad-free episodes
because ad-free episodes, whenyou do the ad-free version of
it, it's basically like you'reuploading two different versions
(09:47):
of an episode.
So you have two files for oneepisode.
And so I think that is whatbreaks it.
But the rest of them should befine.
If you have like bonus episodesor early access, those should
work with the chapters as well.
Alban (10:00):
Yeah.
So I think what we've come tois that chapters were never
supported in subscriber-onlycontent in any format.
And now they're supported, butthey may not have as much
support as we'd want because Ithink they can break if you've
got different audio files for asubscriber version or a uh free
(10:21):
version.
So, like ad-free versions won'tbe as good, or extended cuts
may be off.
So I don't know if Apple willtry to figure that automatically
and they will run it themselvesand come up with chapters, or
they'll provide a way for us todifferentiate.
Hey, the subscriber-only audioshould have this version or that
(10:41):
version.
It's a little wonky.
It's also something only peoplelike us care about because I
think we're really talking aboutthe 0.01% who have ad-free
versions of episodes anyway.
Jordan (10:53):
Yeah.
Alban (10:54):
Um, so the New York Times and NPR, they can reach out to
Apple and try to figure out thisone out.
I don't think we have too manypeople, um, probably besides
Steven on bus route that aredealing with this.
Yeah.
Kevin (11:06):
Let me talk about one thing though.
There are three different ways,correct me if I'm wrong, three
different ways to get chaptersto display an Apple Podcasts
according to this new update.
One, the new chapters tag, two,the ID3 tags.
That's the one that's beenthere forever.
The third one is puttingtimestamps in your description.
Okay.
This is mostly popularized byfirst YouTube, and I think
(11:27):
Spotify adopted it as well.
Jordan (11:28):
Yeah.
Kevin (11:29):
Now, Spotify, we do support chapters in Spotify, but
we don't use that method.
We use a standard called thethe Podlov Simple Chapters,
which is very similar, exceptinstead of displaying it in the
description, we display it in anRSS tag in your RSS feed.
So it's not junking up thatdescription.
And that's the key point thatI'm trying to make here is that
uh this third option of puttingtimestamps in your description
(11:51):
really does junk up thedescription, in my opinion.
Jordan (11:54):
Yeah.
Kevin (11:55):
But I don't like this.
I like the idea of separatingthe stuff out.
Now I can see a benefit that ifyou push your podcast into
YouTube and I think through theRSS integration, it then brings
in the description.
And if you have it in the rightformat, this you know,
timestamp, is it like timestampcolon and then whatever the name
of the title or whatever is?
(12:15):
Then when your podcast goesover to YouTube, those link up,
right?
Uh-huh.
And they work.
But in the podcasting world,there's a better experience,
which is you can keep thedescription field clean and it
can just literally be adescription of your podcast.
And then most really goodpodcast apps have a really nice
interface to be able to displaythe chapters and let you jump
around.
I don't know.
(12:36):
It just feels confusing.
Like as a podcaster who wantsto create content that is uh
displayed best in the podcastingapps, but then also I want to
push it to YouTube.
What do I do?
Like, what's the best solutionhere?
Alban (12:49):
I I think the best answer is I would put it in the JSON.
I would do it through theBuzzsprout chapters.
I'd keep my description cleanand then I would just accept
that YouTube will figure it outon their own and they'll come up
with the chapters.
I wouldn't try to control themover on the YouTube side.
(13:09):
I'm not as against the YouTubeones because of the format.
I kind of like that's all therein plain text, and it you could
just put the timestamp and thenput the chapter title and then
put all the information aboutthat chapter and that section of
the podcast all together.
Jordan (13:26):
So you can integrate it.
Alban (13:27):
Yeah, I'm I actually like that.
Jordan (13:29):
Yeah.
Alban (13:29):
But it doesn't work for podcasts where the audio file is
changing.
And the audio file might changebecause we changed it on your
behalf by putting in a buzz browad.
It could change if you're onanother host and you've got like
some vast tags, so you have noclue what's in there by based on
different listeners.
It could change because you putdynamic content or you upload a
(13:51):
new audio file.
There's way too many ways theaudio changes.
That's a huge benefit we havein podcasting that you don't
have in the YouTube world.
And so I like where we're at.
I don't really hate it becauseit looks cluttered up.
I just hate it because you'respecifying here's where the
chapters markers are, knowing50-50 chance they're not going
(14:12):
to be correct when someonestarts clicking on it.
And now it just is a badexperience because they expect
it to go to the right spot.
Kevin (14:18):
Yeah.
I love the fact that in Buzzsprout, we do shift the chapters
depending on which dynamiccontent clips are getting put in
or put out.
But at the end of the day, tome, it doesn't even, I don't
know, it doesn't, it's notterrible if I click on a chapter
and I'm off by like 30 seconds.
Like it did the bulk of thework for me.
It got me in the ballpark.
And so there are a lot ofpodcasts that use chapters that
(14:41):
I know have these programmaticads and stuff.
And when I click a chapter, I'mlike, oh, that's they're not
starting the topic right away,or I'm already 20 seconds into
the topic or something.
I get it.
But again, I'm in podcast tech,so it doesn't bother me as much
as it might bother just astandard typical listener who
doesn't understand why itdoesn't go right to the right
spot.
Alban (14:58):
Yeah, but if you're a podcaster who took the time to
specify a chapter and say,here's where it is, here's
exactly when I start thissection.
And then your tech solutionbreaks it because there was an
ad, and you're like, Well, youknew I was gonna use an ad.
Like I'm trying to make somemoney here.
Yeah, I would just I'd bepretty frustrated about it.
It's one thing if it's YouTubethat's doing its best guess and
(15:21):
it's pretty close.
I'm like, oh, good job,YouTube.
Thank you for that.
But it's a totally differentthing when I took the time to
create it and somebody elsebroke it.
Jordan (15:30):
Yeah, it it could take like an hour.
Kevin (15:32):
I mean, YouTube is spot on because they like literally
jump you out of your video intoan ad video, and then they come
right back and resume yourepisode.
Yeah.
The problem with the way thatprogrammatic ads work in
podcasting is they go to theseum sort of like auction sites
where they're dynamically on thefly trying to find an ad for
you and they're trying to findthe best ad that's the best
(15:53):
match for your audience at thehighest CPM, and they're trying
and sometimes they find one andsometimes they don't.
And so you can't even plan inadvance of, oh, this is a
30-second ad spot if you canfind one, but sometimes they
find one and sometimes theydon't.
Right.
So there's no good way.
I think we just have to be okaywith it being a little bit
janky sometimes.
Jordan (16:10):
While we're on the uh topic of timestamps in the show
notes, there's another featurehere called timed links.
So if you include a timestampwith a link to content that is
in the Apple ecosystem, so it'slike Apple Music, Apple News,
Shazam, Apple Podcasts, anythinglike that, the link will appear
(16:31):
as a banner below the episodeand podcast title on the now
playing screen.
And it also will show on thetranscript as a link and then on
the episode detail page.
Alban (16:42):
Yeah, I thought you were gonna say, uh, speaking of kind
of janky.
Jordan (16:47):
What?
Alban (16:48):
Okay, this is just Apple, like pure Apple.
Jordan (16:50):
I love it.
Alban (16:51):
The links look great, it's really nice that a link
pops up.
It looks beautiful.
It only works for things thatuh help other Apple related
sites.
And, you know, I love Apple.
I've got tons, I've had allthese iPhones and all this.
I spent way too much moneythere, but I'm not referencing
Apple News URLs.
(17:11):
Um, if I'm linking to apodcast, I'm trying to link to
their website because noteverybody uses Apple Podcasts.
Jordan (17:17):
Uh-huh.
Alban (17:17):
I don't use Apple Music.
And so if we were to drop linksin, and you're just not going
to get these are only going toshow up for people who are super
Apple centric, talking topeople that are completely Apple
centric.
And it adds like, I don't know,a hundredth of a percent of
market share to Apple Books, andit's really useless for
(17:39):
everybody else.
It looks really good.
I just wish that we could do itfor everyone.
But I also get why they don'tdo it for everyone.
And so I don't think we'regonna end up using it at all.
Jordan (17:48):
I mean, Spotify did the exact same thing.
Remember, this was like a yearor two ago.
Like you can link to Spotifyartists or you can link to
Spotify audiobooks, things likethat.
They did they did the exactsame thing.
And I actually think that Iprefer Apple's way of doing it
just because it's more varied inwhat kind of, I don't know,
(18:09):
sites they offer.
Alban (18:10):
Yeah, I think that probably I'm sure if we went
back and found if we ever talkedabout it on the podcast, I
would have said the same thingand then like yeah, I understand
this is the way platformsalways work.
They want to keep everyone ontheir own sites forever and
ever.
Amen.
And like the way that the webwould be better is if we could
link out.
And so it's nice for the peoplewho are extremely Apple
(18:33):
centric.
I'm probably not gonna thinkabout it again.
I'm gonna be positive aboutthis.
You guys thought I was gonna benegative, I'm gonna be
positive.
Kevin (18:39):
No, you just saw that I did the negative.
So you can see Alban alreadytook on my negative.
Jordan (18:43):
Yeah.
Kevin (18:44):
Here's the positive side.
Like, if we were going to linkto a podcast episode in our
chapters, we are certainly goingto find the most universal way
to link to that that we can.
Jordan (18:54):
Right?
Kevin (18:54):
Alban just described that.
And it's he's right.
But here's what we can also dowe can also just talk about the
podcast.
We can talk about dreamfulbedtime stories available in
Apple Podcasts and anywhere elseyou get your podcasts.
And according to this release,Apple will see that we talked
about that in the description.
They will automatically link toit.
Jordan (19:13):
Yeah.
Kevin (19:13):
They will automatically create one of these time links.
We don't have to.
So we can in our chapters, wecan go create a link around the
same time and put a link toJordan's website, Dreamful
Bedtime Stories website.
But I think Apple Podcasts willstill display, because they
found it in our transcript, thelink.
So for people who are listeningin Apple Podcasts, you're gonna
get that benefit of the timedlink.
(19:35):
For anybody listening outside,you're gonna get our chapter
link.
And I think that's gonna bevery cool.
So any, any if we mention abook, Apple's gonna pop up a
link to that book.
If we talk about anotherpodcast, they're gonna pop up a
link to that podcast.
If we talk about a news storythat's available on Apple News
or Oh, and by the way, Shazam?
What the heck is Shazam likeApple bought Shazam?
Okay, but why haven't theyrenamed it yet?
(19:56):
That's the one weird, crazyproduct name in the whole Apple
ecosystem.
Shazam.
Alban (20:00):
They still have like beats, they still call Beats
Beats.
It's still a little bit moreApple y than Shazam.
Shazam just doesn't sound Appleto me at all.
Okay, so wait, this actuallysounds better.
I'm gonna give Apple a bit ofcredit back.
So I'm never going to go makethese links.
But if what's happening is I'mlistening on Apple Podcasts and
(20:21):
I hear a like advertisement foranother podcast, you know, kind
of one of these promo swap, andit finds the URL in links and it
puts it on the screen.
Yes.
As a banner, that's gonna benice.
Kevin (20:35):
Yeah.
Think about with Buzzsproutads.
We sell two types of ads,product ads and podcast ads.
So if you're advertising yourpodcast in Buzzsprout ads and it
gets dynamically inserted intosomebody else's podcast, and
then somebody's listening tothat, the ad comes up through
the Apple Podcast app.
Hopefully now the link to thatpodcast should pop right up when
your Buzzsproud ad plays.
Alban (20:56):
Okay, so this is something that makes sense for
it to be automatic.
And I would then recommenddon't put them in yourself, let
them be automatic.
Right.
Because it's only going to showup for somebody who's listening
in Apple Podcasts.
If they're listening to ApplePodcasts, they want the link to
the other show in ApplePodcasts.
Right.
They want it to pop up in theplayer right there.
Kevin (21:17):
Yeah, you're hoping it shows up.
I mean, it sounds like, I mean,just like with all
transcription technology,sometimes it's going to find it,
sometimes it may not.
If you want to guarantee thatit shows up, you would create
the link yourself directly tothat posting in Apple Podcast.
Then it's sure to show up.
Jordan (21:31):
Especially if there's a podcast that has a similar name,
such as BuzzCast, where thereare other Buzzcasts in the Yeah,
it's the Buzzcast Podcast byBuzz Sprout.
Kevin (21:44):
I want to go back and listen to this episode now in
Apple Podcast and see if allthese links are popping up.
Jordan (21:49):
Okay.
So, and and also to be clear,the linking to uh other podcasts
is going to be a limited betawithin just like English
speaking podcasts in like theUS.
I think they're just testing itout with only podcasts.
They're not testing it out withnews stories, they're not
testing it out with music oranything like that yet.
(22:09):
I think the podcast linking,like the automatic podcast
linking is kind of like asandbox thing that they're
doing.
The other ones, if you do wantto link to like a news story or
anything like that, you willhave to manually do that.
But my hope is that this couldbe a really good stepping stone
to linking to things that areoutside of the Apple Podcast
(22:29):
ecosystem.
I'm hoping that at some pointwhen we do a link in other
podcast players, maybe they pickup this sort of thing.
I know you guys are shakingyour head.
No, I get it.
But my optimistic little hopehere is that at some point we
will be able to link tosomething.
And even in like Overcast orPocket Cast, a nice little
banner will pop up.
It'll be gorgeous.
Alban (22:50):
Overcast will let you do this now with chapters.
That's true.
When you have a chapter with alink, it will just give you the
title and then that's a URL.
Yeah, you can just type thechannel.
I don't think Apple will do itfor two reasons.
Reason one is it's Apple, andthey are very good at saying,
hey, we provide a greatexperience, we're going to keep
you inside the ecosystem.
But the big reason that they'renever going to get over is
(23:14):
people are going to link totheir spammy websites to
something that's inappropriate,that's not on brand for Apple.
And Apple does not want to beinvolved in your casino
business.
And so if someone screenshotsit and thinks Apple is
supporting this or they'replatforming this gross speech or
something, they're just gonnaApple takes the hit and they
(23:36):
can't really explain.
No, this podcast actuallywasn't even in our directory.
It's just someone got a URL.
They can't, it's just like aSafari.
It doesn't matter.
I don't know, it doesn't lookgood for them.
Kevin (23:47):
I mean, they they let you link in the description.
So you can link to your spammyuh casino site in your
description.
And I do.
And Alban does all the time,and he drives a ton of traffic.
The difference here is thatthey're sort of highlighting
certain links, right?
They're they're promoting thema little bit, making them a
little bit more obvious, sort oftrying to draw more traffic in
(24:08):
this direction.
And I think it makes sense forlinks that benefit them.
It doesn't make sense for everylink that you might have in a
chapter or something.
I think it's fine.
Let's like wait and see.
I don't want to steal Jordan'swish.
Uh, I know that at the end ofthe year we always do a holiday
wish episode because we don'tlike predictions.
So maybe that will be your wishfor 2026.
But I don't think Apple has anyhard, fast rules like we're not
(24:30):
gonna allow you to link to anyother website, and they
certainly let you do that inyour description.
It's just which ones are theygoing to sort of elevate?
And they're not gonna elevate.
Yeah, they're not gonna elevatea link that they're not
confident is safe.
Alban (24:41):
Right.
Okay, so what if uh I mean nowwhen people write in, I'm now
I'm really talking myself intothese links because they do look
nice.
All right, what if when peoplewrite in to fan mail and we talk
about it, we should make aneffort to clearly say the name
of the show, and it'd be cool.
So if when you know Sparkling Dwrites in, you can get her
(25:02):
podcast pop up with a link toit.
So anyone who does listen tothis and has heard the same, you
know, names a few times, thengo, oh, that's D.
Oh, okay.
I gotta go click the LateBloomer Actor podcast.
I need to go check and they canjust go flip through everybody
who writes into the show.
Jordan (25:20):
That is so cool.
I love the idea.
All right, so you've heard ourtakes on chapter markers and
timed links.
So if you decide that this isnot for you, you can actually
disable both features on theshow level on your Apple Podcast
Connect dashboard.
Um, I don't know when this isgonna be available.
I don't think it's availableyet, but you just go to your
(25:42):
show's availability tab and thendeselect the option to display
the links or the chapterscreated by Apple Podcasts.
And then you can also do it onthe individual episodes too.
And that's just going into theepisode editing and select which
you want to use.
So um, well, this is a verylong quick cast, I think.
Kevin (25:59):
So I think we're gonna need chapters.
Jordan (26:01):
I think we're gonna need chapters.
So until next time, thanks forlistening and keep podcasting.
Alban (26:12):
All right, I bought a new microphone.
Is this a little Olympus LSPfive, just a handheld recorder?
And I love this.
So I bought it initiallybecause if I go for walks and I
want to not take my phone whenI'm trying to think through a
problem, but sometimes I want totake notes or take voice memos.
(26:32):
And so I have this and I recordstuff for when I come back and
I start typing up my notes.
And a week ago, I had it and mydaughter saw it, and I went,
Oh, let's record a podcast.
And we just grabbed it and heldit between us and told like
some story that had justhappened.
And they were so cute.
It's so cute to listen back tofive minutes of a story with
(26:55):
your kid.
Jordan (26:56):
Yeah.
Alban (26:56):
And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna love these.
I should do more of them.
And so what I'm doing is I'mgonna take this to Thanksgiving
this year.
When I first started working atBuzz Sprout, I don't know,
three of my four grandparentswere still alive and all lucid.
And I remember thinking Ishould record podcasts with them
and never did, and missed outon them telling a bunch of
(27:16):
stories that I really loved.
So, what I'm doing this year isI'm just gonna try to sit down
with everyone in the family andget little five-minute stories
and go, oh, like there's thisfamily story of my grandfather
in Korea.
And so I'm gonna ask my dad totell it.
And I'm gonna ask my mom astory about her mom who I never
met.
And I was just thinking of allthese little family stories, and
(27:38):
I was like, wouldn't it be fun?
Not heavy, like get them on fortwo hours, but just like, hey,
we're having coffee, give handthem the mic and say, tell that
story for three minutes, and youjust got these little clips.
Jordan (27:50):
That is such a fun idea.
Alban (27:51):
Yeah.
And Thanksgiving is like thetime because we're all kind of
hanging around each other for afew days.
You've got halftime in themiddle of the football game or
whatever you're doing, or justhaving coffee in the morning,
and just say, Let me hand youthis.
We're not setting up mics,we're not doing a big thing.
I'm not no production valuebecause it's only for really the
(28:12):
seven people in my family.
Jordan (28:14):
Yeah.
Alban (28:15):
And I don't know, maybe I'll throw it on a podcast and
just send them the URL so theycould listen to it.
But that would just be it.
It would just be a podcast thatwasn't out there in the world
except for people in the family.
And whenever my daughter and Irecord a little story, or I get
my dad to record a short one, Icould just throw it on there for
anyone to listen to.
Jordan (28:35):
I love that.
There's those services and it'ssuper expensive, but there's
those services where you cangather stories from the family
and have it like put into abook.
And I think that this is aneven better option because it's
literally hearing the person'svoice as they tell the story.
I I much prefer this becauseI've thought about doing the
(28:57):
book thing.
I've thought about it, youknow, you all always around the
holidays, you hear these podcastads talking about I some story
service where they email a thingand at the end of the year they
get a book and it'shorrendously expensive for good
reason because I'm sure it'sgorgeously done.
But if you're on a budget, Imean, this is a much better
option.
Alban (29:17):
I think it's actually better.
So I played the podcast I didwith my daughter for my wife,
and it's so much more powerfulwith the voices.
Kevin (29:26):
Yeah.
Alban (29:26):
And I noticed this listening to videos of my
daughter years ago, where youjust where you film something
and you were like, Oh, I forgotthe baby talk that you used to
do.
Right.
Jordan (29:36):
Yeah.
Alban (29:36):
And I have old voicemails that my grandfather left me
before he passed.
And the voice is so powerful,it takes you right back to the
story.
It's what we we talk about thison every podcast.
And story worth for what theydo is cool.
Jordan (29:52):
Yeah.
Alban (29:53):
Uh, my sister bought it for my dad and mom a couple
years ago.
My mom, there's a book.
My dad, there are two reallyReally, really well told stories
in a book.
That's it.
He wrote two back and he wasputting so much effort in that
he didn't do any more.
Jordan (30:08):
Yeah.
Alban (30:09):
Um, but you know, I'm hoping to record a few of these.
I'll let you know uh what theupdates are after Thanksgiving.
Kevin (30:15):
This is this, I love the audio format.
One of my favorite things thatwe have from when our kids were
young is when my oldest child,she's a girl, was teaching my
middle child, her youngerbrother, how to pray.
The audio is wonderful.
I don't know why they recordedit, they just recorded a voice
memo of her doing it.
She did it on her own, butshe's teaching him how to pray,
which is the sweetest thingever, but he won't say what she
(30:36):
says.
She's like, please say this.
And then he says a little bit,and then she says, Say this.
And then he's saying stuffcompletely different.
And then she gets getting somad.
And so she's screaming at him.
She's trying to teach him howto do something so sweet.
But but their voices, liketheir voices change, kids'
voices change.
And and as adults, we don'tthink about this because we
interact with other adults allthe time, and whatever, it just
(30:57):
happens slowly over time.
But capturing those voices,like once they go, they're gone.
Like you won't hear that voiceagain.
And so I love the idea thatyou're capturing some of this on
audio.
And as a business benefit, I'dbe remiss not to mention
Buzzsprout has multi-podcastplans now that are so perfect
for things like this.
Yeah.
Like pop on the $39 fivepodcast plan, set up your one or
(31:21):
two podcasts that you do, likeas a real hobby, as something,
and then you still have morepodcasts that you can use to do
fun family things or experimentwith starting a podcast with one
of your children or whatever.
That is so fun.
That is one of the things thatwe wanted to do when we created
these multi-podcast plans isgive people some flexibility to
play without having to pay awhole bunch more.
Like it's already included inyour multi-podcast plan.
Jordan (31:43):
So that would actually be a really fun challenge.
I would love to hear if otherpeople have been inspired to
start podcasts with their familyor if they already have started
podcasts with their family.
Uh, we love to hear about it.
And you should tap the TexasShow link in the show notes to
tell us all about it.
Alban (31:58):
Yeah.
And I would, I would reallyjust say it doesn't have to be
good audio.
Like this is not don't cleanthe audio up.
It can just be, you know, holdyour phone up and do a voice
memo level audio because allyou're trying to capture is just
like the memory of their voice,how someone sounded on the
phone, and them telling thestory in their own words.
I don't know.
(32:18):
I've I've got two of these withmy daughter now.
I love both of them.
I'm gonna try to do a lot more.
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