Buzzsprout Turns 13 + New Apple Podcasts Updates + Spotify Snuffs Out App Developers + Podcasts Now On Vinyl!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alban (00:00):
I enjoy the like tension and the risk of going caseless.
And also not having Apple Care,because it's like anything could
break any moment like be onedge.

Jordan (00:10):
Wow. Such a daredevil Alright, so Alban, yesterday you
tweeted Buzzsprout is 13 yearsold this month.

Alban (00:23):
Buzzsprout is a teenager.

Jordan (00:27):
It's a teenager!

Alban (00:29):
I don't really know why I ran across this, but I had a
feeling Buzzsprout started inSeptember. And so I went back
onto Facebook, and I was lookingthrough Tom's old Facebook
posts, there's way to searchpeople's old posts.

Jordan (00:42):
You were stalking Tom.

Alban (00:44):
As I was going through Tom's old Facebook post, as I
like to do, September 1, heposted just went public with our
latest service Buzzsprout thebest way to publish your
podcast.

Jordan (00:54):
Still true.

Alban (00:55):
And it got four likes and two comments from Tom's personal
friends.

Kevin (01:02):
Did I even like it?

Alban (01:03):
No. Notable people who didn't like it; Kevin Finn, did
Dave work on it when helaunched?

Kevin (01:10):
Yeah, he helped.

Alban (01:11):
Dave did not like it.

Kevin (01:13):
Oh, no.

Jordan (01:14):
Poor Tom. He was like, "No, guys, this is really good!"

Alban (01:18):
Well, Tom has the last laugh. He turned out to be

Kevin (01:20):
Some Buzzsprout trivia in there is that we actually like
Kevin,m describe the originalvision that you had for the
right.
people were using it back in Mayof 2009. But you couldn't sign
Buzzsprout homepage. What'shappening with this design?
up or create an account oranything like that. We set up
The vision? I don't know thatthere was a vision. Well, I knew
some personal podcast projects,and some people who we knew were
podcasting. And so there waslike five months while we were
building it while people wereusing it. I mean, the first
that we wanted to lookdifferent. There were some other
feature you need to be able todo is accept an audio file and

(01:43):
create an RSS feed. So that'sthe first thing it did didn't
really do much else. And sowhile we built everything else
out, there was 2, 3, 4, 5podcasts. And we just got
finished with our first companyoff site last week. And I showed
some of the screenshots, one ofthe ones that Alban tweeted.

(02:12):
podcasts hosts at the time, butthey looked very technical,
looked like the marketing stuffwas designed by programmers. And
so we wanted it to look nice, wewanted it to look friendly. And
so it was kind of had thiscartoonish background behind all
the words and screenshots andstuff. So it was not
intimidating at all. There weresome like little fun character
things in there. One of theearly versions of our logo had

(02:34):
like a bumblebee in it. And thebumblebee didn't make the cut
for the logo. But I liked it. SoI stuck it in the background.

Jordan (02:40):
I thought it was cute

Alban (02:41):
The Bumblebee is like landing on the Buzzsprout
microphone plant. So it's aflower sprout.

Jordan (02:47):
And there's like an airplane flying across the sky
pulling a banner that's like theactual website banner. It's kind
of like you guys took theconcept of like, so easy a child
could do it. And then like ranwith that.

Kevin (02:59):
Right. Yeah. And there's, there's more to the story. And I
mean, not a whole lot more. It'snot super deep. But at the same
time that we were building this,Tom and I got interested in
flying airplanes like littleremote control airplanes and
stuff. And so I was like thatbanner where our navigation is
that looks like one of thosebanners that planes drag behind
them, like on the beach andstuff. And so I'm like, I'm
gonna throw a plane up there,put some strings on it.

Jordan (03:22):
You know, that always works in design is throw a bunch
of like inside jokes and storiesto it.

Kevin (03:27):
Yeah, it works for us.

Alban (03:30):
So, Kev, I don't think John's ever told you this maybe,
I don't think I have either.
When John first took the jobwith you and Tom -- for
listeners, John is my friend whohe was here, like a year before
me. When John was firstapplying, he said think I'm
gonna take this job to someoneand they go, "Tom and Kevin?
Those guys just fly modelairplanes all day!" I was like,
"Oh, no, I don't think they havea real business."

Kevin (03:58):
Not all day. No, we had a client. So again, there's
there's more to the story soundsworse than it is. But we had a
client that we were doing clientwork for. And behind their
office was a huge open field. Soanytime Tom and I would go over
there for a business meeting. Wehad always bring our planes too.
So we go in and we have abusiness meeting for like an
hour. And then before we left,we go out in the backfield for

(04:18):
30 minutes and fly just becauseit was one of the best places in
Jacksonville to fly plane. Butthen they're like, did these
guys work? Or they just flyplanes? Like, it's not our
fault. You're the one who hasthe office with a massive field
in the backyard. So wasn't allthe time.

Alban (04:35):
I got access to Twitter podcasts in the last few days. I
think they rolled it out foranybody who decided to spend $3
to like have their mental healthdeteriorated by the Twitter app.
So if you spend three extrabucks a month, you do get access
to some Twitter features thatwill make you more angsty and
stressed out but one of them isTwitter podcasts.

Jordan (04:56):
You know what's interesting is I saw that they
had rolled out up to I thinkit's called Twitter blue, which
is like the premium Twitter. Doyou have that Alban?

Alban (05:04):
Yeah.

Jordan (05:04):
Oh, wow. So

Kevin (05:08):
Super impressive.

Jordan (05:10):
This says a lot about a person. But I saw that and then
I went to my Twitter and I alsohave access to it.

Alban (05:17):
Wait, do you have Twitter blue?

Jordan (05:19):
No, I went spend money on.

Kevin (05:21):
I don't have Twitter blue either. Let me see if I have

Alban (05:23):
this is BS, if they're like, "Oh, we rolled it out for
everybody with Twitter blue",and then they just rolled it up
for everyone.

Kevin (05:30):
I didn't. They didn't give it to me, I think you have
to launch the app more than onceevery two weeks.

Alban (05:35):
We talked about this quite a bit last week. But now
that I actually can use it andplay around with it. I still
like the idea. I know MarcoArment, who built overcast was
on Twitter talking about like,why it was a dumb idea and why
he didn't like it. I actuallyliked the idea of being able to
find out what podcasts thepeople I follow on Twitter are
interested in what they'resharing. Same way that Twitter

(05:57):
kind of collects all thearticles together, everyone I
follow sharing, I would likesomething similar for podcasts.
That being said, That is notwhat this is. It's a totally
different thing. Really what itis, is like they needed to get a
critical mass of audio contentinto the app. And they have all
these Twitter spaces, which arecool, and they record them,
which I've never gone back andlistened to one but I like being

(06:20):
involved when they're happening.
And then they're like, We needsome more content in here for
audio, and they added podcastsbut they didn't add like full
podcasts. They added a fewcollections of podcast episodes.
The first one I see is liketoday's news. And so if I click
it, this is really good. It'slike the daily up first, the
Wall Street Journal's dailypodcast. So like all the daily

(06:41):
podcast are all there. That'sgreat. Swipe over. And now I'm
looking at a bunch of Twitterspaces. But it doesn't
differentiate to like really letme know which was a space and
which is a podcast. Yeah. Butthen they have some that are
based on who you follow. Sobased on who I follow, it thinks
I'm interested in data science.
And so it gives me a technologygroup. And so if I click on it,

(07:04):
they've got a bunch oftechnology podcasts. But there's
only like 10 episodes in there.
There's one episode from eachpodcast, there's no show page.
So there's no way that I couldgo listen to other episodes,
there's no ability to search fora podcast, no ability to go and
find any other of the curatedlists. So this entire like
feature for me, is only 40 Totalepisodes, that they have pre

(07:30):
selected and put onto the app,and it doesn't do the thing that
I would really want, which ishelped me find cool podcasts
like you are a social mediacompany, you have brought
together hundreds and hundredsof people I think are really
interesting people, and I followthem. And I'd love to know in
one place, what are theylistening to? And Twitter can do
it. And so I hope that's wherethey end up. But right now the

(07:52):
only thing they're doing isthey're like, well, we've got
like an 18 year old at Twitterwho listens to podcasts, and
they're picking out the bestones for you. Like, well, we
need people curating but like,that's not who I'm looking for,
I'm looking for the 400 peoplethat I follow, like, what are
they listening to? That's whereI want to see, all of the
ability is there and they wentin a totally different

(08:14):
direction. And this could havejust been a newsletter.

Jordan (08:18):
Would you say that the curated lists that they present
you with are accurate to yourtaste?

Alban (08:23):
The one category was right, you know, data science,
and then technology that worked.
But the other one that gave mewas it said, Well, you seem to
be interested in startups. Sohere's stuff about finance. And
it's like Dave Ramsey show, andthen similar type stuff that
doesn't connect for me. Like ifI'm starting a startup, the
finances that go into raisingmoney and starting a startup,

(08:43):
and the finances that go intothe Dave Ramsey show are the
opposite. So there's just atotally different world. So it
didn't feel like a great match.
There's probably only 20 ofthese lists. And they tried to
get a few for me, but there'sreally just not much there.

Jordan (09:01):
See with mine, I went to it and I was very disappointed
because like my options werelike sports, business, soccer.

Alban (09:10):
Interesting.

Jordan (09:11):
I guarantee you I have never in my life interacted with
anything to do with sports. AndI am very confused about the
curation.

Alban (09:19):
It's funny that you are getting sports here in New York
on YouTube, you are getting allthe WWE podcasts somebody is
like out there in the algorithmstrying to convince you to get
into sports.

Kevin (09:31):
I don't see the fit. I've read Marco's statement about it.
I sort of agree with that, thatI feel like it's a big
contextual shift to try to dotwo different things, playing a
podcast while you're, as hedescribed him scrolling through
Twitter, your mind is trying todo two things at once. I just
don't think it's a goodcombination.

Alban (09:48):
But could you see it as like the collection of what
people that you follow areinterested in like I'm never
going to listen in the app butit could recommend to listen to
it somewhere else.

Kevin (09:58):
But I don't think that aligns with the interests of
Twitter, Twitter does not wantto show you stuff so that you
can then close Twitter and golisten to it somewhere else.
Yeah, so that's the problem thatall of these apps have is that
they're in the attentionbusiness. And so they want to
show you stuff that'sinteresting to them. But then
they want you to consume thatwithin their own app, it's just
a tough problem to solve. Butthat's why you end up with
solutions that don't feel likethey're giving you exactly what

(10:20):
would be most helpful for you,because they have to align your
interests with their interests.
I'm starting to think that thisdiscoverability problem that
everybody's talking about inpodcasting, and everyone's out
there to solve, and that's goingto be the golden ticket, whoever
figures this out, I don't thinkthat's the best way to describe
it. I'm starting to think aboutit as a discoverability gift.
There's a gift that we have inpodcasting, that these are not

(10:43):
easy things for algorithms to beable to recommend to people
because we've seen what'shappened in social media, we've
seen what's happened like onYouTube, when they figure out
how to continue to hold yourattention by finding
recommendations that appeal toyou, then you start having all
these things where you have tostart to play the algorithm game
in order for your content to besuccessful. And so what you

(11:05):
don't get is a lot of superunique content, you start to get
a bunch of content that fits themold that the algorithm is
looking for. Like I said, Ihaven't completely formulated my
thoughts. But I want to startthinking about this from a
different perspective. Like, isit so much of a problem? Or
could it be a gift? And if wethink about it as a gift, then
why is it a good thing? Why isit special? And so that's what
I'm trying to think about. LikeI said, I'm gonna formulate more

(11:27):
my thoughts on that, but I wantto look at it from a different
perspective.
So you guys put this, thispodcast search engine thing on
the outline? This is that sametrain of thought about is
podcast discovery going to besolved with search engines.
Justin Jackson did a deep dive.
And Justin is an awesome guy.
Smart guy did a deep dive intopodcast search.

Jordan (11:50):
So what happened is on Twitter, Justin Jackson, he had
seen a tweet, Brian Barletta wastalking about his podcast
discovery, a listener issue orcreator issue. And then this
gentleman that goes by Clew-Lesssaid, I don't believe
discoverability is the issue.
And that's a big problem withsearch. And so Justin went,
"Hmm, I wonder if search isbroken." And so that's what led

(12:12):
him to this deep dive, right.

Kevin (12:16):
And one of the examples he gave was skateboarding in the
70s. Like, I've never gonelooking for a podcast. With that
in mind, like with a topic inmind, maybe I'm totally
different than a bunch ofpeople. So tell me, is this how
you guys do it? Do you guys lookfor podcasts like this by topic?

Jordan (12:30):
I have done that.

Alban (12:32):
Yeah, I think I'd like to make a distinction between
search and discoverability.
Discoverability is like whenyou're on YouTube, on that
sidebar. It's like, hey, whydon't you watch this video
that's a little bit more edgythan the one you just watched.
And that I feel like reallyleans into the everything needs
to be algorithm focused.

(12:52):
Everything needs to be hyperoptimized, we need to copy the
things that are already working.
But search is a different thing,which is I know what I want. I
want to replace the light bulband my headlights. So I searched
the car, and I searched theheadlight. And now I see a video
on how to do it. I think searchis so valuable. I think
discoverability definitely hasits flaws. Discoverability is

(13:12):
not fixed on podcasting. And I'mwith you, Kevin, I don't know if
that needs to be fixed. Searchis broken on podcasting. And I
think it definitely deserves tobe fixed. Whenever I get into
something new. I want to listento podcasts about it. And right
now the best thing I have, Imean, it really is listen notes
is the best. But the second bestis going on Twitter and saying I

(13:33):
want to learn about this, whichI listened to add a bunch of
people recommend their ownpodcast.

Jordan (13:39):
Yeah, I mean, that's not really like a search engine. But
Justin posed the question, ispodcast search broken? And
you're saying yes, it is. Andare you saying that because it's
not like a uniform thing acrossall platforms?

Alban (13:54):
I mean, it's broken because I mean, you watch that
video. He's like, okay, PodcastMovement. 2022 very specific.
These episodes exist, and theyshould be on podcasts. And
everything is is popping up islike an episode of you're wrong
about COVID vaccines. What?
Okay, all these popular podcastsare there to have the word
movement. Oh, is that sorry,that one was called the anti Vax

(14:16):
movement. So that movement gotin there. The only one that
really seemed to do this wellwas I mean, listen notes. I
think pod chaser did alright,good pods seem to do well. But
like listen notes actuallypulling back episodes that said
Podcast Movement. 2022.

Jordan (14:33):
Yeah, it's almost like the other podcast platforms are
prioritizing their rankingsystem as opposed to the actual
like search engine. That's whatit seems like to me,

Alban (14:42):
Jordan, you may be too young for this. But like in 1999
This is how internet search was.

Jordan (14:48):
Oh, thank you so much.
Yes, I am so too young for that.

Alban (14:55):
I mean, this is what it was like you would search for
things and would like get theworst results. And you'd have to
like, try to refine the search.
And you'll be using Booleanoperators to try to like, make
sure the phrases were connectedin certain ways. But like, why
are the podcast apps stillworking like that? And I feel
like they should be able to getto the next level the like early

(15:16):
Google. And that's wherelisteners feels like it's early
Google. It just doesn't feellike it's great Google yet. And
I would really love to see,listen, notes continue to push
forward in this area. And thenother apps try to do this as
well. Because if you want tolearn about skateboarding in the
70s, I know for a fact there'spodcasts out there about it. So
like, why can't we find them?

Kevin (15:39):
I don't know. Guys, I don't know. I agree search is
broken. I just don't know ifsearch for podcasts? is a
problem worth fixing? How wouldyou compare it to searching for
books? Like you want to you'regetting into fixing up cars,
right? And so I want to readsome books on hobby cars. Right?
How do you go about doing that?

Jordan (15:57):
I mean, there's actually like an indexing of book topics
within the book itself. And it'sactually indexed like in a
database.

Alban (16:05):
Yeah, Kevin, you're talking to two people who used
to work in a library. So we'reabout to talk to you about the
Dewey Decimal System.

Kevin (16:10):
I'm not saying that it doesn't exist. For books. What
I'm saying is that what existsfor books is not what we're
comparing the broken search forpodcasting to. And I think what
we need to build for podcastingis more like what exists for
books. So if you go to Amazon,right now, and search for a
book, what you're going to getis you're gonna see some cover

(16:30):
art, you're gonna see adescription, you're gonna see a
bunch of reviews for that book,and reviews from notable people,
that's going to help you makethe decision on whether I'm
gonna buy this book or not.
Amazon has gone a little bitfurther, and they'll let you
read, you know, the so much ofthe book, the first chapter or
something like that for freeonline before you decide if you
want to buy it or not. But it'sthe same type of thing, like,
um, search on the web is, youknow, within 15, or 20 seconds

(16:50):
of clicking on a link, whetheryou got what you wanted or not.
And if you're looking at avideo, like Google and YouTube
are getting even better andbetter, they're not just
surfacing a video, they'resurfacing the time in the video,
so you can click on it, and it'sright at that point of how you
change the carburetor out onthat, you know, Landcruiser,
it's a 30 minute video, but youreally only need that 30 seconds
in the middle of which how toget that screw out. And so let's

(17:11):
jump right to that part. Forpodcasts. It's more like a book,
it's like, you're gonna invest45 minutes to an hour of
listening to something. And soin order to be convinced that I
found what I'm looking for, Ineed a really good synopsis of
the entire episode. And then Ineed reviews from credible
people, either my circle ofinfluence, like good pods is
doing like have any anybody inmy friend network, listen to

(17:34):
this episode, what did they sayabout it, or trusted people. And
I don't know that there's a lotof trusted people yet in the
podcasting space. But like thatcould be an opportunity for
people start stepping up andsaying, I'm going to start
personally reviewing stuff, I'mgoing to be whatever the New
York Times bestselling bookreviewer, but for podcasts,
stuff like that, like that's,that's the maturity that needs
to happen a little bit in thepodcasting space, because you're
searching for this long formcontent.

Jordan (17:58):
Some of what you're describing is like a table of
contents sort of thing, which islike reminded me of like chapter
markers like if podcasters, wereable to like appropriately
utilize and label their chaptermarkers, then you can do that
kind of jumping to the topicthat you're actually looking
for. It's interesting that youbrought up the reviews, because

(18:20):
in pod news today, there wasactually a Twitter account that
was brought to my attention. Andit's like podcast critics or
something like that. And it'sactual, like good critical
reviews of podcasts. Right. Butyou're saying like, we need more
of that.

Kevin (18:33):
Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm saying. It's like the
solution is not necessarilybetter indexing the content
itself. When you look at a book,you look at the back jacket of
the book, or the inside, insidethe jacket, whatever. Like in
two paragraphs, they're tryingto summarize all the major
takeaways from the book. Andthen here are a couple respected
people in the industry who haveread the book and their thoughts

(18:53):
on it, like why it's worth yourtime reading. That's the type of
stuff that I think we need forpodcasting.

Alban (18:58):
Let me walk you through, I guess now hearing you say
this, I'm like, Oh, I just wentdown this path, reading
something and went, Okay, I'vedecided my next thing is I'm
going to start trying to learnabout artificial intelligence.
I'm going to read some books.
I'm going to listen to somepodcasts, I'm going to try to
figure it out. The podcast thatkeeps getting recommended by
people is Lex Friedman'spodcast, and I cannot suffer
through more than 20 minutesseems like the great content,

(19:20):
the best guests. I think Lux isa pretty poor interviewer, so I
wasn't able to do it, then Imight Okay, I'm going books. The
best way to really learn a newarea is to find a really good
textbook. So I'm searching besttextbooks on AI and you end up
on a Amazon page. And I'm justgoing down the list of the best

(19:40):
sellers. I'm looking at thereviews finding some that don't
seem overpriced, but also seemedgood. I'm ended up on something
called Open syllabus, which istelling like how many schools
are actually using this bookversus other books on their
syllabus. So I'm able to say Oh,this is kind of like the
introduction book to AI Forpeople in college that gives an

(20:00):
overview of the whole area, thenI can read the intro, I'm sold,
I buy the book, the podcasts,you can go search it. And
there's so many things that arestill missing. There's no one
who's saying like, Oh, this isthe most reviewed podcast, and
the most recommended byprofessors in this space like
that stuff doesn't exist forsure. But there's not even like
the podcasting version of theAmazon page. This like, here are

(20:22):
the top 10 In this space, allthe ones that I run into our
websites that are like 10 Ai,podcasts you better be listening
to. And then it's put togetherby someone who spent like an
hour searching, and they juststuck them onto a list and they
moved on. Like these are wellthought out really cared for
articles. And you're not reallyleft with anything beyond the

(20:45):
same as what I'd get if Isearched on Listen notes. And I
got, you know, a handful of goodideas. So it just feels like
we're not even to the Amazonlisting page level yet where you
search something and it's gotlike 10 items that you could buy
or 10 books you could buy.
That's what I want.

Jordan (21:05):
You know, I think that as far as the searchability
goes, and things like that, Ithink a lot of that actually
falls on the podcastersshoulders. Because we know how
the search engines work forSpotify for Apple for these
platforms, because they've beentransparent about it. They're
saying these are the things thatwe search for, these are the

(21:25):
things that we rank. And so if apodcaster is saying we need
better search ability, butthey're also not doing robust
episode descriptions, they'renot doing SEO titles, they're
not doing transcripts for thesearch engines to comb through.
It's really not on theplatforms, I just I think that
there's kind of a level of likeaccountability that needs to be

(21:47):
held to the podcasters to ensurethat they're not complaining
about the searchability withoutputting forth the work to make
sure that their podcast issearchable. Yeah, I do like the
idea of a recommendation pagesand things like that. But just
in the meantime, make sure thatyour podcast can be found.

Kevin (22:05):
You make a good point here. And I think that the
people are really like in thepodcasting world are clamoring
for this though, because theywant smaller, independent
podcasts to be able to findtheir audience. And so I'm not
sure that the solution to thisis to find the ultimate
whatever, top 10 ai podcaststhat exist. I think ultimately

(22:25):
what they're clamoring for is,hey, if we can solve that
problem, if we can find the 10best for artificial intelligence
podcasts, then you could alsoget down to mine which focuses
specifically on artificialintelligence for neural engines
in yadda, yadda yadda, likeniche all the way down. And if
you got that specific, then minewould show up and then my
podcasts would get discovered.
It's a hard problem. But I thinkwe have to think more like like

(22:46):
minded media. And right now Ithink what's happening is all
the discoverability momentum ismore like, oh, it's as simple as
figuring out how YouTube did itfor video is the same way for
podcasts. And I think it's justvery different.

Jordan (23:03):
iOS 16 dropped yesterday. Did you guys download
it?

Alban (23:07):
Yes. But do you know what else dropped yesterday?

Jordan (23:09):
Huh?

Alban (23:10):
My phone without a case!

Kevin (23:11):
Oh, no, you cracked your phone.

Alban (23:13):
I'm pretty sure I did the math 99.5% of the way through
this phone's life? Oh, no, I'dalready bought the new phone.
And I don't know what happened.
I upgrade to iOS 16. And likeTim Cook put in some sort of
magnet thing. And it jumped offof my book that I was holding,
it cracked, that the none of thebiggest issue in the world is

(23:33):
just funny that I made it allthe way to the final three days,
I was gonna have this phone, andI cracked it.

Kevin (23:41):
Alright, so you broke your phone. And iOS 16 is out.

Alban (23:44):
The thing that I really like is so when you update. Now
the like now playing lockscreenlooks so much better. Oh, it's
so pretty. When I first sawthis, I thought it was exclusive
to Apple podcasts. But it turnsout, it's kind of like the Now
Playing API. So if you'relistening to something on
Audible, or Apple podcasts, or adifferent podcasting app or

(24:06):
Music or Spotify, you get areally pretty lock screen. So
it's kind of this like blur withthe color of the artwork, and
then the artwork right there.
And some of the controls that onits own was like enough to get
me pumped. And then there'sanother really cool
accessibility feature calledlive captions if either of you
played with this.

Kevin (24:27):
Yes, I did.

Jordan (24:28):
I did not. I did not get a chance to play with that one.
How's that work?

Alban (24:31):
So live captions. They're an accessibility feature if it's
just listening to what audio isbeing played, and it's
transcribing it in real time. SoI guess it's closer to like a
closed caption. I listened to afew podcasts on Apple podcasts
and I turned it on. And it'skind of just hovering there and
you can move it around on thescreen. That's cool. And it's

(24:52):
not perfect, but it's good.

Kevin (24:53):
Wow. Yeah, it's good. The bummer about it is that it's
like system wide setting and soif you turn it on, you always
have have this little dot thingthat's always hanging out on
your screen, no matter which appyou're in, no matter if it's
playing audio or not, it'salways there. And so this has
existed for quite a while onAndroid phones. And I think
they've got the implementationhoned in a little bit better.
Right now. It's like a betafeature of the new iOS 16. And

(25:16):
so I imagine that they will giveapp developers the ability to
toggle it on and off from withintheir apps at some point, maybe
when it comes out of beta, butopens right, it is promising,
but it's not great today, butit's promising. What does it
look like it starts writing outlike a paragraph of text, so you
can click a little Expandbutton, it fills the whole
screen, and then it's justgiving you a longer transcript
that you can read back through.
Now. I mean, it's machinetranscription. So it's not

(25:39):
perfect, it gets some words,right, most of them right. And a
few wrong, it doesn't break outspeakers, it doesn't like break
out paragraphs or anything likethat. So again, it's very early,
it's interesting that they'repushing into it, I like it. I
hope that they don't look atthis as this is the future like
we no longer need to supporttranscripts and apps like the
podcast app, because no matterhow good it gets, you're still
not giving the Creator controlover their own transcript and

(26:02):
how they want to present it. Andso I like having that option
there. But the reality is thatall podcasters will never do
this, no matter how goodtranscription becomes like the
support for transcription getsin podcasts, there's still going
to be some percentage ofcreators that just don't do it.
And so having defaulttranscriptions available for all
podcasts is wonderful. I stillthink though the implementation

(26:22):
should support podcasters beingable to control their
transcript, if they choose to dothat.

Jordan (26:28):
Are they able to (because you said it, it writes
out into like a paragraph, whenthat's finished) are you able to
export that text file at all? Orit doesn't work like that?

Kevin (26:39):
No, it's for the listener. So like, if you're
listening to a podcast, yeah.
And like you're having, let'ssay you have a hearing
disability, or if you're in anoisy environment, you're not
catching everything. So you wantto watch the words while you're
listening? Different cases likethat. So you would probably
never want to as a listener, youprobably wouldn't want to export
it, you just want to be able tosee it as you're listening. It's
great for that I tested it atyou know, 1x 1.5x 2x, it seemed

(27:01):
to keep up pretty well. Icouldn't really tell if it was
getting less accurate, thefaster I was listening, but I
did test it. When I had theaudio muted. I had the audio
turned all the way down, itstill worked. So it's not like
the microphone is listening towhat's coming out of the
speaker. It's not doing that.
It's like doing it all preprocessing somehow.

Alban (27:19):
Yeah, I, I like it, I think it's really good. The big
reason we've been talking abouttranscripts for so long is a
important accessibility feature.
I just hope that what is verygood does not become the enemy
of perfect like the opposite ofthat standard phrase, because I
do want us to move towards likeperfect. You know, the
implementation I always go backto is on Spotify and listening

(27:40):
to music. And I clicked thelyrics. And it's the exact
lyrics. And they're broken outby paragraphs, the way that
they're Sung. And then they'rebeing highlighted as they're
being sung. I'm like, this issuch a great implementation. If
we can get there and the tech isthere for podcasts, that would
be the next level. But until theentire ecosystem updates, and

(28:00):
people start really leaning intothis, right now, this is a
pretty dang good feature. AndI'm really pumped that Apple
made this a priority. And nowfor a lot of people, this is
going to be a way to be able toexperience podcasts that just
may have been hard for them tolisten to.

Jordan (28:18):
Some other features that were introduced to Apple
podcasts or updated with the iOS16 Is that they refreshed the
Now Playing screen. And theyadded some new features with
scrubbing the audio if you pressand hold and you can do a whole
bunch of different things withit instead of just dragging was
that called like the time was Icall called the scrub bar grab

(28:42):
bar. Yeah, instead of justdragging that and trying to find
the thing, you can actuallyswitch between high speed half
speed quarter speed and findscrubbing.

Alban (28:51):
the scrub bar is a pretty good implementation. So it's
hard to explain when we're justtalking about it. I don't love
listening to podcasts reallyfast. I don't almost always
listening 1x speed. But when youscrub between segments, like
you've got a big fat finger fora long episode with a really
small scrub bar, it's hard toget precision when you're doing

(29:14):
that. And so you're moving fromleft to right. But as you move
up, it actually will make thelittle.on the scrub bar detach
from where your finger is andmove more slowly, the higher up
you move. And so it can getreally precise. Yep, it works

Kevin (29:31):
up or down. So the further away your your finger
moves from the scrub bar itself,the more precise it gets. So if
you move up a little bit, you'llsee the title of the episode
changes to half speed scrubbing,you move it up further, it says
like quarter speed scrubbing.
And then the last one I think isfine scrubbing. And so you can
really get to the exact secondyou're looking for. That's
amazing. Just to be clear, theseare updates to the Apple podcast
app. I imagine there may be newthings that are available in the

(29:53):
SDK for developers. So maybethings like this could start to
come to Pocket Cast and overcastand other third party apps but
they're not in there right now.
So I don't know if that isofficially an iOS 16 update, or
if it's an apple podcast update,but I know it works really well
in Apple podcasts. So we'll callit Apple podcast feature right
now. And maybe it'll come toother apps later.

Jordan (30:12):
And then they updated their sleep timer, you can now
set your sleep timer to end onlike a chapter marker of your
choosing, which is very clever.
I love that the sleep

Alban (30:23):
timer ending on a chapter marker. That is such a smart
feature that I hadn't seenbefore in a different app. So
maybe other apps already havedone that. And I apologize to
people who might have tried it.
But if there's a chapter marker,some podcasts ad with
Buzzsprout, ads to will actuallylabel like, here's an ad. And if
ad some different than aperson's voice, and you are
using a true sleep timer, likeyou're going to sleep, you don't

(30:45):
want to hear an ad, the ad willis likely to wake you up if
you're an early sleep stage. Andso you can just say, you know,
play the 15 minutes or 30minutes, whatever you'd normally
do, but actually just stop at achapter marker. If you hit one,
that's really nice, because nowyou know, I'm avoiding any ads
that may jump in and wake me up.

(31:07):
And I just thought that was sucha smart kind of forward thinking
feature.

Jordan (31:10):
So one of the things that I did notice with this new
update that I think willprobably have the biggest effect
on podcasters. It's going toaffect how we create our
podcasts in the first place. AndI think a lot of podcasters are
going to need to considerupdating their podcast is in the
Browse and recommendations listson Apple podcasts, they have now

(31:33):
taken away the title and thehost of the show or the company
when you're scrolling throughthe recommendations. And
instead, it shows metadata, likethe podcast category and how
often it's updated. So thereason why I'm saying that this
will affect a lot of podcastersis I know podcasters that do not

(31:55):
have their name in their podcastcover art. And that's going to
be a problem because now thename is not displayed on Apple
podcasts when people are goingto be browsing. So you have to
have your podcast name on yourcover art. And it needs to be
legible, so that someone canread it and can see it in that
small thumbnail. I think thatit's now something that we need

(32:18):
to really push and just makesure that we really, really get
it into people's heads like,Hey, you must have it so that
you can read the podcast title,it just can't just be a big
picture of your face. That's it,you know,

Alban (32:31):
it's an interesting decision. So I'm scrolling
through and there's a sectioncalled season starters,
football, and the first podcastis the athletic football show.
But what's actually writtenbelow it just football, because
that's the category and it'supdated daily. But there's no
unless it was on the artwork,which it is saying the athletic
football show, I wouldn't knowwhat it is. And I think you're

(32:53):
right, there's enough that havedifferent words on there, or
they don't feature the show nameis prominently, that I guess I'm
a little surprised that Applewent this way and remove that
piece of metadata. They probablysaid for most good shows, it's
duplicative. But for a lot ofyou know, indie shows, I think
there's people who are makingthis mistake. So definitely a

(33:14):
good catch. And I think weshould start recommending it a
little bit more intensely.

Jordan (33:18):
If you look at this, so even on their recommendation
lists, they have a foul playlistinspo. And you can see here on
this one, I think that songexploder is that right? Yeah,
see, but like if I didn't knowthat, all it is is a block II
Yeah. And then there's someother podcasts that they have,
where they have too many words,or it's like very small font.

(33:41):
And I don't know what thosepodcasts are. So I'm definitely
not going to be clicking onthem. Because I don't know
what's called,

Alban (33:46):
I've got a thread or I think it was from when I did a
talk on podcast cover PodcastMovement that we can link in the
show notes here. But thosethings all still stand like you
do want to have the name of yourpodcast in your artwork. And you
really need to keep the numberof words down and the number of
elements there, it needs to workat a small size. So all the best
practices, they're still thesame. Apple just upped the ante

(34:09):
a little bit more and said, Hey,listen, you got to put your
names in there, at least forwhen you're browsing. You know,
if somebody was searching foryour podcast, the name is going
to be there, but it's not goingto be there on that Browse page.

Jordan (34:25):
Alvin, you put an article in here that is very
interesting, and it says Spotifyis changing their business
model. What is that about?

Alban (34:34):
So this is a piece from Ashley Carmen Bloomberg, she
wrote was included in hernewsletter. It's not a full
article, and they're notchanging their entire business
model. But I wanted to put it inhere because it really
illustrates this point we makeabout Spotify. Almost every
episode. I apologize. I've heardthis 30 times already. Spotify

(34:56):
just for music, which I use andI love Spotify has this API that
allows other apps to pull in asong. And so some other apps
will use it. Like there's onecalled Amazing slow downer,
which will slow down music. Solike, if you're trying to learn
an instrument, and you reallylike, you know, Metallica song,

(35:18):
you need to play it really slow.
So this plugs into Spotify, whohas the rights to the music, and
you have the rights because youpay for Spotify, they pull the
song in, and they slow it downfor you. And now you learn to
play the drums along withMetallica. And there's another
one called Boom bass booster andequalizer, so you can create
your own special EQ, becausethat's what you want to do.

(35:39):
There is another one thatcreated a personalized radio
station called radiant. Allthese rely on Spotify has the
music because you already payfor Spotify, they're allowed to
bring that music in. Well, allthese apps built these
businesses around this abilityin Spotify. Oh no. And this is
what we've been talking about.

(36:02):
There is a risk when you rely ona platform 100%. In July,
Spotify said, Hey, we're goingto be phasing this out. And
September 1 Buzzsprout birthday.
Spotify says it's over that APIno longer works. And instantly,
all these apps are cut off. Soif you were an amazing slow

(36:23):
downer user, the person reachedout to Bloomberg and said, they
have 25,000, Spotify users whouse this app every day, oh my
gosh. So you either have toswitch to Apple Music, or
they're going to cancel amazing,slow downer. If you're using
amazing slow downer, youdefinitely need to be part of
the group saying alright,Spotify, if you're going to do
this, you know, the answer forme is I'm moving away to an app

(36:46):
that will actually support this.

Kevin (36:50):
Yeah. And I would highly recommend you switch to Apple
Music, it's a much bettersolution. Keep using your
amazing slow downer.

Alban (36:55):
But if you build an entire business based on the
kindness of a platform, at somepoint, they say this no longer
aligns with our model, whatwe're going forward for some
reason we're moving away fromthis and you have no control,
you're screwed? Well, yeah,

Kevin (37:13):
the value is kind of clear in that people who got the
amazing slowdown or app and thenwanted to play music through it,
like they were encouraged to geta Spotify subscription. So that
made a lot of sense. At somepoint, the economics of it must
have changed, like maybe theywere paying different licensing
fees when they're it's servingmusic through the API versus
not, or I have no idea why theyneeded to make this change. But

(37:35):
they did need to make thechange. And so now these apps
are in trouble. Like it's, it'sa total bummer. I know you can
do this through Apple Music, myson uses an app for this exact
same thing, not the amazing slowdowner, but his is called
songster or something. But heconnects to his Apple music
subscription. So then he can seelike the sheet music along with
the song that's playing. And,yeah, there's this whole

(37:55):
ecosystem that exists. I don'tunderstand exactly why Spotify
changed it. I thought it wasinteresting, the word that you
used, they built it on thekindness of Spotify, I don't
necessarily know that it was thekindness of Spotify, because if
it was kindness, then theyprobably wouldn't have killed
it, they probably would havemaybe stopped selling it, but
like continue to supportexisting users or something. But
this is not about kindness. Thisis about business models. And

(38:17):
when the business model nolonger aligns, then it changes.
And if you lose your business,it just doesn't make business
sense anymore. So Too bad foryou. Yeah, I

Alban (38:25):
say kindness to be sarcastic about like, your
business model is reliant onsomebody else doing you a solid.
That is not how it works. Likeyou don't have any leverage. You
don't have a contract in place,you have nothing. And you're
just really, really hoping thatSpotify doesn't need to go in a
different direction. You'retotally left with nothing,

(38:46):
because you realize, oh, maybe Icouldn't rely on a different app
that had no obligation to medoing the thing I continued
wanting them to do.

Jordan (38:56):
You know, I know that we're kind of harping on Spotify
for doing this, like crappything. But couldn't Apple Music
Do the exact same thing? Yeah,yeah, they could. Yeah, there's
apps that are reliant upon AppleMusic, and maybe they have
something in place where they'recontractually obligated to not
do that. I don't actually knowwhat that would look like. But
um, yeah, it's just to me, if Iwas an app developer, like,

(39:21):
like, that's just kind of therisks they took.

Kevin (39:24):
The thing that stinks about these things is like the
Spotify built this API forprobably this exact reason. I'm
assuming they put it out therestarted promoting it to app
developers and saying, Hey, youcan do this. Now you can build a
business off of this. What do weget from it? Well, you're gonna
encourage your users to sign upfor Spotify Premium, and what
have you get from it, you get tobe able to use this to make your

(39:44):
app more attractive and moreuseful. So it's a symbiotic
relationship. Go ahead and buildyour apps. And then down the
road, they changed the rules ofthe game decide they don't want
to do it anymore. It's notprofitable enough. We're not
going to continue to support it.
That's a bummer when thathappens. I'm not saying Apple
would never do it. Maybe theywould maybe they wouldn't Apple
steam is to probably like maybebe in a healthier position where
even if it's not making them asmuch money as they hoped they
could still have the resourcesto support it while Spotify

(40:06):
still trying to work on thatprofitability issue. I think it
just reflects the type ofcompanies that like, at least
for me that I want to supportcompanies that do stuff like
this, like there are real peoplethat get hurt when companies
make these changes. I hatesupporting apps like this. I
know that Alban, you loveSpotify, smart playlists, you
happily give them their $15 amonth so that when you're
running, you get the best music,whatever, I would never give

(40:26):
Spotify money, decisions likethis, that really bothered me.
And I think it's important thatyou think about the type of
companies that you're supportingwith your wallet.

Alban (40:35):
I don't think there's anything wrong with Spotify
making this decision. But thelesson I want to take away is
the quote from the article, suchas the plight of orbiting around
a big corporation. If yourbusiness model is reliant on a
different company that's muchlarger making the decisions that
you need them to make. If you'resaying like, Oh, I'm gonna go

(40:58):
all in on YouTube, I'm going allin on Spotify, I'm going all in
on tick tock, well, the minutethat the game changes for them,
it will change for you becausethey don't need you. So I don't
think Spotify is evil in doingthis. I think it really, really
stinks. And it's just a reminderof when a platform changes its

(41:18):
mind. A lot of people can gethurt if they relied on that
platform to stay the same.

Kevin (41:23):
Right. And just to be fair, Apple has done this to app
developers in other categoriesplenty of times, the most famous
example being Sherlock which wasa really popular third party app
that ran on Macs. And I thinksome version of the Mac OS came
out the ability to hit Commandspacebar and it basically
brought up Sherlock, which isnow built into the OS, and it
rendered that app useless. Andnow that's like the saying that

(41:45):
when Apple releases new featuresin their software, they say oh,
did your app just get shocked?
Because now you're out ofbusiness because they built it
in. recent

Alban (41:52):
The most recent example being camo, who is using your
phone as a pro webcam. And Applesaid, "Great feature. We'll
build that into Apple."

Jordan (42:00):
Well, I think the moral of the story is every man for
himself. Trust no one. That'sthe takeaway I'm getting from
this.

Alban (42:10):
Podcasts on vinyl! These now exist.

Jordan (42:14):
Luminary has created a beautiful vinyl record of Dave
Chappelle's The Midnight Miraclepodcast and they have two
podcast episodes on this vinyl.
And this vinyl, we're nottalking just like a regular
black record. It's actually thislike really pretty marbled royal
blue. It's very pretty. And thisis kind of a neat thing. To take

(42:36):
content or like an art and toput it in a format that is
vintage and normal. I don'tknow. I just think it's really
cool.

Alban (42:47):
To be clear, this is not the first time that's happened.
I mean, why like three episodesago, Kevin talked about the
first cassette tape podcast.
Jerky Boys were doing this backin Kevin's middle school days.

Kevin (42:59):
That's what I think we need to do with Buzzcast I think
we need to take the best ofBuzzcast and start recording
them on the cassette tape andselling them for $50.

Jordan (43:06):
You know what, I think you actually bring up a really
good point, Kevin, like maybeno. Hear me out. Okay, this I
think this is a really good ideathat Kevin has because podcasts
when they do their merch, it'salways like mugs, stickers T
shirts, but I haven't seen anycassette tapes. I haven't seen
any vinyl records up until now.
So maybe this is going to be anew option for merchandise for

(43:29):
podcasters

Kevin (43:33):
it's a whole new merch category. Yeah, I want to see
the Teespring for vinyl for yourpodcasts. You just give them
your RSS feed and anybody whowants on demand can get vinyl
pressed up whatever episodesthey want. That'd be great.

Alban (43:45):
I think it's interesting because it's the first I don't
think this is the new businessmodel. Music is replayable I
just can't imagine me listeningto a podcast episode like 12
times in a row NBA like heyeveryone great party Y'all ready
to listen to the daily from

Kevin (44:04):
Yeah, and it's like where are you have your record players
always in a room or living roomor something not really the
place that you listen topodcasts? Yeah.

Jordan (44:13):
I think it's also like a situational type thing because I
believe that the midnightmiracle they actually have like
musical guests on and stuff likeI know that they had like
Questlove on I think that theydo actually have that kind of
like show element of there beingmusic played during the podcast.
situationally vinyl makes sensefor this but I agree with you.
Maybe the daily on vinyl is notideal. Maybe make sure that you

(44:36):
have evergreen content that canbe artsy and appreciated.

Alban (44:40):
We need to like find any other podcasts that have done
this and have a littlecollection like at the
Buzzsprout headquarters inJacksonville have a little wall
of like all the first podcastvinyls up on the wall like I'd
love to if there's only ahandful, you know the first 10
or so that do it. I feel likethat'd be an interesting
collection. versus just havinglike a blank wall,

Jordan (45:02):
we'd probably have to, like move some desks around to
so that we can fit those giant80s Sound Systems, you know,
like the huge it would take upthe entire wall and it was like
a silver with knobs.

Alban (45:13):
Yeah, so we can just blast like a Blue Apron.

Jordan (45:19):
But it sounds so much better on vinyl

Kevin (45:26):
you know what time it is.
It's time for Buzz. All right,it is time to read some buzz
boosts. Thank you. We have morebooths this episode than we've
had in I think ever Whoa,fantastic to see value for value
working. Thank you for all youwho are listening and boosting
and sending us your thoughts. Solet's get to it. Let's read
them. First one. It 450 SATsfrom George DOM Hooray for the

(45:49):
pebble speech. I think he'stalking about last episode. I
was complaining about Spotify.
And I was saying that's whywe're not going to be on Spotify
because we are not going to beanother pebble on the pile of
their success and podcasting.
And so thank you once in a whileI get on a rant and yeah, I will
not be contributing.

Jordan (46:06):
We have 2700 sites from at pocket parlay. Thanks for
everything you guys and girls doover there at Buzzsprout. I've
been podcasting for over a yearnow and your team has made it so
easy with all the tools youprovide. vfv is the way to go.
Thank you pocket parlay.

Alban (46:25):
We got 3000 Satoshis.
From at mere mortals podcast. Igive your Ozzy accent, a solid
five out of debt. You need moreswearing, and a bit of a drawl
to really sell him you've alsogot to drag out mate is like a
lot of A's. Also know ours.
Water equals I'm going to try topronounce what I'm reading here.

(46:47):
But let me spell it first. Wapostrophe a W E apostrophe T.
H. Well, I was ta I don't thinkthat helped. Mere Mortals. I
guess FYI, um, Ozzie, thank youfor the five out of 10 accent I
don't know. I think it mighthave been Kevin with the accent.

(47:08):
So yeah, solid word, Kevin.

Kevin (47:10):
Yeah, thank you. 900 SATs from Andy flattery who just says
podcasting should be embracingit's free and open protocol
brand and not positioning itselfas another soulless corporate
gatekeeper. We agree we'd loveto open podcasting ecosystem.
It's one of the last places onthe internet that you can really
do that still. And so fantastic.
Glad you're on board. And we areto

Alban (47:31):
throw your pebble in with Kevin's pebble speech. That's
right.

Jordan (47:34):
And then we have 7400 from mere mortals podcast, sing
as you mentioned an interest inboosted shows I currently run
three Wow. Mere Mortals meremortals book reviews and the
value for value podcastinteresting. In the main show I
and my co host chat philosophyin the park, we go outside and
explore everyday topics in adeeper manner. The other two are

(47:57):
shorter and solo stuff I run theV four v show is great for
anyone who wants to know how toimplement V for V for their own
show, I hope you get a chance tocheck any of them out buzz
boost.

Kevin (48:09):
Yeah, so do it. That's something that we highly
encourage we this is workinggreat for our show. I mean,
again, we're not doing it tomake money. We're doing it to be
able to get back to the podcastecosystem. But it is so much
fun. And so anybody who hoststheir podcasts on Buzzsprout,
very easy to get your podcastvalue for value enabled, start
at the podcast, index that orwebsite, go ahead and get your
code and email it to our supportteam. They'll add it to your
feed. That's really an optionalstep. But we're happy to do it

(48:32):
for you. But even withoutemailing our support team,
anybody who put any podcast appthat pulls from the podcasts
index, we'll get your value forvalue tag and you can start
accepting Satoshis it's not hardto do at all. All right, 4500

Alban (48:43):
from Dave Jackson, head of support at Lipson he's and
the School of podcasting saidgreat hanging out with Kevin in
Dallas. Notable exceptions tothat were Jordan and I who I'm
pretty sure saw him so that'smore of a

Jordan (48:59):
I actually didn't

Alban (49:00):
see Kevin, seeing Alvin.

Kevin (49:03):
It was great hanging out with Dave as well. Dave and I
had dinner together and we'resitting right next to each other
for a fabulous dinner and greatto see you too, Dave. All right.
9000 might be the big ballerboosted the day from Dave Jones
said Alvin, you better buy thattruck. Here's a few steps to
help get you started. Don'tlisten to Kevin. My wife and I
both drive old trucks andworking on them gets us away

(49:23):
from computers for a while,which has made us happier people
wrenching on an old truck is waybetter than therapy. You have my
blessings and may personnel.
Thank

Alban (49:31):
you, Dave. There may have been a slight change in the new
vehicle plans though. Maybethat'll be in a future episode.
If anyone wants to know, Alvin'spurchase decision for a car.
Maybe I'll I'll talk about thatagain. We also got 900 from Tom
Raftery. Thanks folks. You'regood tech support people helped
me change my two podcasts, thedigital supply chain and climate

(49:53):
21 To value for value. Now letthe riches roll in. So we will
link to this podcast in the shownotes, send him your riches.
Let's get him some booths.

Jordan (50:05):
And did he say that our tech support people helped him
with that?

Alban (50:09):
Yes. So shout out Buzzsprout support for getting
him set up. Yeah. All right, wehave 1800 from George Tom again.
Hi, it's George from Phil bettermedia in Germany. I love your
support for podcasting to Dottoand I would love to recommend
you to my clients. But your GDPRpolicy is outdated and doesn't
take into account currentrulings about the overturning of

(50:29):
privacy shield. George, goodpoint, we should remove that
privacy shield language. It isupdated policy. But Privacy
Shield has been overruled. So weneed to make sure we take that
out so that no one's confused.
Thank you for that update. Weare GDPR compliant. Maybe tell
some of your friends over therein Europe, give us a break. It's
podcast.

Jordan (50:49):
900 SATs from Jean bean.
Y'all are talking about thecharts from Apple. And I can't
help but wonder how skewed theyare due to I assume not
accounting for subscriptionpodcasts that use Patreon and
the like. Sidenote, I switchedyour podcast over to another
player after hearing and lastone, you have enabled the value
for value features. I loveseeing the spread. I mean, it
does make sense that the applepodcast charts would not take

(51:10):
into account the Patreon supercast member for subscriptions
because they don't have thoseanalytics. Those analytics are
pulled directly from Applepodcast subscriptions. So that
is definitely skewed just forApple podcasts.

Kevin (51:25):
Yep. And thanks for switching apps that you could
support us with your boosts.
That's what we want to see moreof that stuff. Your next comment
was a non 100 more sets fromJean beans that to be more
clear, I like overcast best. Butthe Dev has just made it clear
that they don't plan to do valuefor value I currently use cast
thematic for all of my visibleshows, but may as well switch to
pod verse once they implementCarPlay. So here's the thing,

(51:45):
this is fantastic. And we wantto see more of this type of
stuff. There is a really greatecosystem out there of third
party podcast listening appsthat developers are working on.
And they all have these uniquefeatures. And if what you're
excited about right now is valuefor value, we're super excited
about it, then you have to goout there and do a little bit of
work to find the value for valueenabled podcast listening app
that resonates with you that youlove the most. And so I have

(52:07):
heard Marco at overcast say thesame thing that he doesn't plan
to do value for value. He's nota big crypto person in general,
totally fine. But if you're intoit, then it might just mean you
find another app. And there areother good options out there. So
Good on you for going out thereand being proactive. Finding a
good one and sending us somestats. Thank you, Jane bean.

Alban (52:26):
Yeah, I think if there's something you're really
interested in, it's okay thatsomebody has an app that doesn't
agree with you, and they have adifferent opinion. But lean into
the one that follows the valuesyou have. I don't find it wrong
to use Spotify music, Kevindoesn't like it good. We should
use different apps, if youreally love value for value. And
even if you like over house, youcan just let Marco know, hey,

(52:48):
I'm going to use a differentapp. And he'll probably say
cool. So I think lean into thethings you love and find more of
those good things in the world.
We got another 900 from Jeanbeans. So this is a three
straight by Jean beam. Thank youfor what it's worth. If you know
you normally listen to 25 hoursa podcast that do value for
value and you have $10 A monthTo support podcasting, you could
set your SAT stream rate to $10divided by 25 times 60 minutes

(53:11):
equals point oh six, six, aka 32cents a minute. Wow. As of
today, realistically, I did themath once rounded off to 30 sets
minute and call it done. Butthis

Kevin (53:23):
is perfect. This is this is exactly what we're talking
about Jordan because you'resaying I don't have enough money
to support all the podcasts thatI listened to if you load them
all up in your value for valueenabled podcasting app, and then
just say, I'm gonna go ahead andstream 30 sets a minute or if
you want to spend $20 a month onpodcasting maybe 60 cents a
minute regardless of whatpodcast you're listening to as
long as they have their valuetags set up correctly then they

(53:43):
start getting your some statsand when your wallets empty.
It's empty.

Jordan (53:47):
Yeah, I just needed somebody to like slap me with
some hard hitting math. That'sright. This makes sense. I mean,
the math doesn't make sense tome, but he summarized it as 32
cents a minute that I canunderstand.

Alban (53:59):
Hats off Jean, and thank you for the boost.

Jordan (54:02):
All right, and then we have Who is it Jean bean again
and Jamie and says I love thelove boost clip. I've heard it
on Jupiter broadcasting podcaststoo. And then he circled back
around again and says all the JBpodcasts are a value for value
enabled. By the way,

Kevin (54:21):
I'm just a fan JB so that would be Jupiter broadcasting.

Alban (54:24):
So that's five boosts in a row by Jean being the big
boost of the day was David Jonestelling me to go buy a truck so
we appreciate all of you keepboosting we love this
interactive element I mean moremuch more than the sets
themselves the ability forpeople to share their thoughts
and you know have a little bitof back and forth with us is
what we love the most.

Jordan (54:45):
Thanks for listening and keep podcasting.

Kevin (54:53):
So last week, the whole team from Buzzsprout and some
people from the larger team athigher pixels. all got together
down in the Florida Keys for ourfirst full team off site event.
We were there for two and a halfdays. I think Jordan traveled
the furthest to get there. Idid. But all of us traveled a
pretty good distance. Even thepeople coming from Jacksonville

(55:14):
still in Florida still had whatwas it like seven, eight hour
drive straight down? Well,

Alban (55:18):
seven, eight hours down the my trip back I think was a
full 15 hour return trip. But itwas great. You know, when you
start working online, andeveryone's remote, you gained so
much in like you're not wastingtime commuting, and you gain a
lot that different types ofpeople can work with you like we
could never have worked withJordan and had her join the team

(55:41):
when she was in Idaho. Shewasn't going to move to
Jacksonville for a job. So likehe opens up so many things. But
you definitely miss some of thislike in person human
interaction.

Jordan (55:53):
Yeah, it was really nice, especially being clear
across the country. It was sonice to actually get to know the
entire team, in person and inlike a fun environment. And it
was my first time in the FloridaKeys. It is hot in the Florida
Keys. And it's a different kindof heat. In Idaho we have that

(56:14):
there'll be 100 degrees, butthere's no humidity. And then in
Florida, it'll be like, youknow, 90 degrees but the
humidity is so intense that itfeels like you're being like
steamed alive. It was brutal.

Alban (56:27):
You're making everybody from Florida feel like
incredibly good right now. Weall like we go everywhere else.
We're like, you know, this ishot, but it's the humidity that
gets you and everyone's likegive me a break. And you're just
like totally validating ourweather to us.

Jordan (56:41):
I was also one of those people because it was like 104
in Idaho when I came down toFlorida and like the day I
arrived it was like 87 but itwas so much hotter. Like I
literally got physically illbecause it turns out I'm a
desert flower and I cannot be inthe humidity

Kevin (56:59):
Yeah, we I think we were thinking from Jacksonville,
everything that was actuallypretty nice down there. There
was a you know, prettyconsistent breeze. I mean, it's
definitely humid, but it waslike 80% humidity as opposed to
Jacksonville, which is alwayslike 98% humidity.

Jordan (57:12):
I was wonderful. Yeah.

Kevin (57:13):
So weather was nice, hot, like you said, but I mean,
you're on the beach, you kind ofwant it to be hot. We had a good
mix of we didn't play the wholetime. We had some work events.
But then we also had plenty offree time and some fun team
activities. We did some I don'tknow we were at a nice place.
They had a nice spa, they hadsome nice pools. Some people got
out in the saltwater and tookboats out and took jet skis out.

(57:34):
good mix of everything. Whatwould you guys say? Like? Like
for future event planning? Wouldyou do like more planned
activities, less plannedactivities? Do you think we had
the right mix?

Jordan (57:43):
To me it felt like the right mix. Like I felt really
happy with it.

Alban (57:46):
I don't want to be the Buzzkill. But I'm like I think I
would have done a little morework. Does it sound normal, but
I could have done more. I reallyloved the moments where we were
talking about the bigger visionfor the company, or where the
marketing team were all gettingtogether. And I'm talking about
the vision for the marketingteam going forward. It made me
realize like I would have lovedto have had a bit more time to

(58:08):
brainstorm in person withpeople. And it was funny, like
even when we're out on jet skis,you're jumping waves and then
I'm you're still trying to likeget a little bit of work
talking. And it's not becauseall you want to do is just talk
about work. But these are thepeople who you work with day in
and day out, and you rarely see.
And so that is your sharedexperiences like, hey, it wasn't
a fun. We worked on that video.

(58:30):
And we just finished that. Andso it's very nice to be able to
talk to people in person. Andyou know, see how tall people
really are versus zoom calls. Ithink that was Jordans
experience.

Kevin (58:42):
One of my most favorite things that we did was we went
on these jetski tours, and wehad to break into two groups.
And not everybody wanted to doit. But like for anybody who
wanted to do it, you could. Andso we had two groups. And so
there were 10 people in ourgroup, I think, and the there
was a safety briefing, of courseand a little bit of a boater
scores before you went out inthis thing. And I think within
the first like three or fourminutes on the water, we were

(59:04):
supposed to stay 30 feet apartfrom each other at all times and
single file line. And I think ittook about three minutes before
Alvin and myself and the guy whoahead of him was John. Like,
there was no line. There was no30 feet. Albin was like right
next to my Jetski. And like, sowe're gonna stay in line, and
we're just gonna go and we'rejust tearing off. I think in the

(59:25):
first nine minutes or so, I tooka really hard turn and skip
myself about 50 feet across thewater. Albin came and checked on
me, of course, saw that I wasokay. And then he took off. But
like you could clearly tell whothe real followers were and who
are the people who were like,yeah, those are just
suggestions, but we'll be fine.

Alban (59:42):
I just want to talk. This is 100% revisionist history. My
experience is the line goes allthe way back to John out of
software than to me and then toKevin, and we are in a line. And
John and I have been on Jet Skismore than some of the people in
the front so we're Maybe curvinga little back and forth, but
we're staying in a line. Kevinstarts here right by me, a

(01:00:06):
speeding up past four peopleramp as hard as he can speed
back gets behind speeds up theribs. And eventually I'm like,
alright, well, I guess thiswhole line thing is totally out.
So I guess I'll do a little bituntil I saw Kevin go full speed
turn, Blip. last finaldestination was a full 35 feet

(01:00:28):
from the Jetski. So you gottalaunch and I'm like, Alright,
I'm going to take this as alearning moment. And I'll go a
little bit slower. And I willalso avoid,

Kevin (01:00:39):
I felt like you were in it with me. When I came up
ripping Next, on the side ofyou, I felt like you gave me
that look like yeah, we're goingwe're not the line was just a
suggestion. You don't reallyhave to do that. I thought we
were in it together.

Jordan (01:00:51):
See, I heard a story about you too, on the jet skis.
That basically the group lostyou because you guys decided to
like stop and see how deep youcould dive into the ocean.

Alban (01:01:02):
That is also true. That is having stopped and so I like
stopped with him and I'm like,oh, what's going on? And John
stop Kevin's like, look how deepthe water is. You think we touch
the bottom? Like no, we gottago. Kevin's like come on. I'm
jumping in who's going with me?
And I just was like alright,fine. I'm taking off my life
vest, I'm jumping in!

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