Never Run Out Of Episode Ideas: Tips From Podcasting Hall Of Famer, Dave Jackson

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Have you ever worried you'll run out of podcast episode ideas for your show?  It's a fear almost every podcaster has, but we have tips to keep you going for hundreds of episodes!

Jordan and Alban welcome Dave Jackson from School of Podcasting to talk about how to keep your podcast ideas flowing year after year. You’ll learn:

• How to keep an ongoing bank of content ideas so you’re never stuck on recording day
• Why passion matters more than download numbers for long-term success
• The importance of hanging out where your audience is to find episode ideas
• Strategies for mixing up formats to keep things interesting (solo, interviews, Q&A, etc.)
• The difference between running out of ideas vs. running out of passion
• How audience engagement can fuel entire episodes
• Real-life examples of Dave’s own podfades, rebrands, and creative pivots

Plus: A quick detour into Taylor Swift’s surprise podcast appearance, what music shaped the hosts’ teen years, and why some fan encounters get awkward.

Contact Buzzcast

• Send us a text message
• Tweet us at @buzzcastpodcast, @albanbrooke, @kfinn, and @JordanPods

Thanks for listening and Keep Podcasting!

Episode Transcript

Jordan (00:00):
Okay, so last night around like 10 pm, I was
scrolling social media and I getthis Instagram reel and it is
New Heights and it's TravisKelce and he's talking to
somebody and the camera switchesand it's Taylor Swift.
She has never, ever, ever beenon a podcast and they she has

(00:20):
not done a podcast recently.
No, she's never done a podcast.
I talked to Priscilla aboutthis.

Alban (00:26):
Ooh.
November 12th 2021, Late Nightwith Seth Meyers podcast.
Talked about Red Taylor'sversion.
November 3rd, she was on theRolling Stones' 500 Greatest
Albums podcast.
In 2020, she did Zane Loweinterview series.

Jordan (00:41):
Wait, were those just interviews that they like
syndicated into like podcastepisodes though?

Dave (00:45):
Yeah, we're now.
We're going to get into thatlovely talk.
Was it a YouTube podcast, orwas it?

Alban (00:51):
late night with Seth Meyers.

Jordan (00:53):
It sounds like he did an interview.

Alban (00:54):
He did an interview.
It's distributed as a podcast.
Maybe this was not podcastfirst content and it was like
repurposed from late night withSeth Meyers.
That would be my guess.
I feel like we're beingpedantic now, but yeah, I think
that to me she's been on fourpodcasts, four things
distributed via RSS where shedid an interview.

(01:16):
But I'll have to defer to ourresident Taylor Swift expert.

Jordan (01:21):
Courtney Priscilla.
She's never been on a podcastand this is like a big deal,
because she chose a podcast tobe the platform that she
announces her 12th album, sothis is like a big deal.
Also, I went and looked at theNew Heights Instagram page and
the rest of the reels only getlike only, I say only a few like

(01:42):
10,000 plays or likes, and thensome of them will get up to
like 500,000 likes, and this onelike, as of this morning, has
about 5 million likes holysmokes.
I know.
So it makes me wonder whattheir download numbers are going
to look like for this episodewhen it drops tomorrow.
Like I wonder if it's justgonna be like like record
shattering downloads.

Alban (02:04):
Well, it's a.
It's a big show.
It's a isn't it an Amazon show?

Dave (02:08):
It is.
I'm kind of thinking all thenow ex-Wondery people are going
hey, could you not have likedropped that about two weeks ago
to you know, when they get fivegazillion downloads on this
episode that are, I'm sure,chock full of ads that would
have paid for maybe somebody'syou know job to stick around.

Jordan (02:26):
Absolutely.
I didn't even think about that.
I don't know.

Alban (02:36):
If you're wondering why Kevin sounds a little different
today, it's because Kevin isactually Dave Jackson.
Yeah, we are joined by the.
You're not the pod father.
What are you, the pod brother?

Jordan (02:48):
The dean of podcasting I don't know the dean of the
school of podcasting.

Dave (02:54):
Yeah, I am the head of Podpage and I run the school of
podcasting, so I've been doingthat just a little bit, a little
while.

Jordan (03:02):
Yeah, if you are not familiar with Dave Jackson, just
a little bit, a little while.
Yeah, if you are not familiarwith Dave Jackson, Dave's been
podcasting for 20 years, startedup School of Podcasting, became
a podcasting Hall of Fameinductee and authored Profit
From your Podcast and also hassomething like 13 podcasts I'm
not exactly sure, because youhave like 6,000 credits on

(03:22):
Podchaser but you have likethousands of episodes and so
when I was like looking for aguest, I was like who is the
most available person that Iknow, who has the most free time
?

Dave (03:34):
That's it.

Jordan (03:36):
Dave also does tons of speaking engagements, so I was
fortunate enough to like catchyou in between one of the
speaking engagements.
But the reason why I wanted youto be on this episode of
Buzzcast is because we are goingto be talking about coming up
with podcast ideas for yourepisodes and content planning,
so I think that you have a lotof experience with that.

Dave (03:59):
I do For the School of Podcasting.
In four weeks I'll be episode1000.
And I've probably got over 4000, somewhere at least 3000, if
you count all my shows, becausesome of them I've done and I've
started over 30 different shows.

Jordan (04:17):
Have you.

Dave (04:18):
Yeah, and some of them, like I, did one.
I'm very creative with my names.
It was called the customerservice show.
Go ahead and guess what it wasabout, and I made it the
traditional seven episodes and Iwent oh wait, that's my job,
not my passion, and so that was.
That was a lesson from that one.
I did one called the dates fromhell show, where we thought we
would get our audience to sendin their dates from hell stories

(04:40):
.
And then it dawned on us aboutthree episodes in oh we don't,
we don't have an audience.
Yeah, so if you're going to doan audience participation show,
you're going to need an audience.
And so we had about sevenstories between myself and my
co-host and then after that itwas like, well, thanks, so much,
we're done.
So, yeah, so it's one of thosethings that for me I have a

(05:04):
friend of mine that used to be astand up comic and he said the
hardest part when he quit doingthat was turning off everything
he watched went through the lensof how can I make this funny?
Could I turn this into a bit?
So everything I read,everything I watch, is like, ooh
, can I tie this into podcasting?

Jordan (05:22):
Yeah, ooh can I tie this ?

Dave (05:23):
into podcasting?
Yeah, so I think some peopleset time aside to brainstorm.
I just brainstorm nonstop.

Jordan (05:31):
I mean, that's what I was going to ask you because,
like some people do prefer justlike winging it and they're just
going to like show up and youknow whatever comes out of their
mouth is what comes out oftheir mouth and what's on their
mind at the time.
So I was curious are you moreof a planner or are you like
somewhere in between winging itand planning it?
Or because there's some peopleare crazy and they'll have batch

(05:53):
content like months in advance?

Dave (05:55):
No, I well.
First of all, the winging itthing.
The minute I hear somebody gohey, thanks so much for coming
into the show.
I don't really know what we'regoing to talk about today, but
it's Thursday and I promised youa show.
That's when I hit stop, becausethat person's going to waste
about 20 minutes of your life.
I'm like, look, if you can'ttake time to at least come up
with an idea of what you'regoing to talk about.
And my buddy, eric K Johnson,says nobody gets on a bus

(06:25):
without knowing where it's going.
Oh, that's good.
And like, if you don't know,like, who's driving the bus,
buddy.
So what I do and I'm sure we'lldiscover as we talk here I can
be a little ADD, I'm a littleall over the place and I
remember I think my record wasfour or five times where I'm
like oh, I got it, it's up here,I just need to say it and I
would be going.
And about 12 minutes in tangent,number one comes up and you're
like wait, how did I get overhere?
I'm like okay, and so then Iwent to bullet points, which

(06:50):
were handy, and I would.
I just I look at the bulletpoints, most of my shows are
solo and I just talked to myinvisible friend across the desk
and even with that I would.
I would kind of I would stay ontopic.
But then what would happen is Iwould write my show notes based
on what I just said and as I'mtyping up the show notes, my
brain would go oh, you know whatyou should have said there.
And I'd be like now do I goback and rerecord or what?

(07:12):
And nine times out of 10, Iwould just let it go.
And I was like, well, wait aminute, what if I actually write
a blog post and let's figureout what the heck I'm really
trying to say, what's thetakeaway?
So that's the old teacher partof me is okay, you know, at the
end of this class the studentwill be able to blank right.
That's the and.
So I kind of like, at the endof this episode, I want the

(07:33):
listener to be able to do thisor to know this, or to be able
to identify.
So I started writing a blogpost and then from there I just
I go backwards, I turn that intofour bullet points because
nobody wants me to talk andlisten.
Here is what we're going.
You know, reading a podcastjust doesn't work for me, and so
I'd have the four bullet pointsand then I just talked to my

(07:54):
invisible friend across thescreen.
So that's that's the way Ialways tell people.
That's the workflow for me.
That may not work for you, butit's a way that I no longer have
an episode where I go.
Oh, I should have said you know, I've kind of really figured it
out.

Alban (08:08):
I think a lot of us listen to shows where we enjoy
learning about the hosts and wekind of enjoy the human aspect
and we enjoy some of thetangents.
And then that translates topeople going oh, the tangents
are like really, really good andso I don't need to have a plan.
But that stuff is only makessense in the context of, like

(08:30):
you actually have a show tobegin with, and then the
deviation is like you know,you're on a road trip and you're
like, oh, it was fun when wewent one hour out of our way, we
went to this special place thatwe learned about.
But that's okay On a big roadtrip or where 90% of the time
you're going in the rightdirection, not just meandering
across the country, and so Ilove like you've got this idea,

(08:52):
you've thought through.
Okay, here's what I want towrite out.
Synthesize that down to ahandful of bullets and then, if
you tell an interesting story inthe middle, everyone's happy
because they're kind of seeinghow that's related to the
overall theme.

Dave (09:11):
Yeah, I actually started making fun of myself because I
will still, with my full fourbullet points, my brain wants to
call an audible in the middleof that, I'll be talking about
something and I'll be like, allright, hold on.
And I will just say that andleave a space.
And then I actually have ajingle where I have this British
guy go, oh, brilliant, Dave'sgoing to go on another 10 second
tangent, awesome, you know.
And then when I get done withmy tangent, there's a little
bell and I all right now back tothe show, and I was just like
look, let's, this is who I amand so let's make fun of it.

Jordan (09:33):
Yeah, so do you use like a content calendar for planning
out your episodes?

Dave (09:40):
Yeah what I do.
It's kind of funny Cause I'mbecause I'm with you.
When I hear people like, ohyeah, I've got you know I'm
working on my episode.
That's three months from now,I'm like I am about five days is
like today I have an interviewalready done, so that's my
backup.
But today is where we recorded.
This is Tuesday, so by tomorrowI need to know what the heck am

(10:01):
I doing on Sunday, because myfamily knows Sunday is Dave's
podcast day.
He goes in the Dave cave andyou will not see him and unless
you're on fire, you know youshould not call him.
And I get home from church andI start recording and editing
and by you know 11 o'clock it'sdone and so.

(10:21):
But on Wednesday I figured itout and then it's usually like
right now I'm thinking aboutepisode 1000 and I'm like, okay,
what am I going to do forepisode 1000?

Jordan (10:30):
I'm like you know what?

Dave (10:32):
It's kind of a milestone.
Let's answer the question Like,how do I grow my podcast?
So what I'm doing in my headand I've been doing for a couple
of weeks is like, okay, whatmakes me share stuff?
What am I watching that I go?
That was really good.
Like I just watched stick onApple TV with Mark Maron, so
good, and it just made me feelthe way I felt when I got done

(10:52):
watching that.
And you know, yeah, I don'twant to spoil it, but it's a
very Ted Lasso kind of thing andyou just felt that when I was
like, okay, so there's a lotabout how things make you feel.
So I'm, I'm jotting that downin my brain.
But I also use.
I used to use, um, what was theapp with the green elephant
that everybody?
I used to use Evernote, untilthey tripled their price and I

(11:13):
moved to note joy, which is like$48 a year versus whatever 150.
And so I've learned this lesson.
I'm also a musician and everymusician knows the time when
they they came up with thisreally cool chord progression.
They're like I'm also amusician and every musician
knows the time when they theycame up with this really cool
chord progression.
They're like I should writethis down.
They're like, no, no, I'llremember it.
And then two days later you'relike wait, what was it again?
And so I've done the same thing,where you, you come out of the

(11:34):
shower with a great idea for anepisode and you're like I should
write this down.
No, no, I'll remember it.
And then you don't.
So I just now know, anytime Iget any kind of idea, it's going
in NoteJoy.
And what's fun is, there aretimes when Wednesday rolls
around.
I'm like, so, Dave, what areyou going to record on Sunday?
And I go um, and I'll just gointo NoteJoy and I'm like, oh,

(11:55):
totally forgot about this,totally forgot about that.
Or I'll see where a lot oftimes it's articles about a
topic that I'm like, oh, I needto go read that and then put my
spin on it or combine it withthis other idea.
So, I'm always again kind ofbrainstorming with myself, but
I've just learned that if you donot write it down and it
doesn't have to be NoteJoy, itcould be Apple Notes, it could

(12:16):
be a piece of paper, whatever itis just write it down, because
you're going to forget it?

Jordan (12:20):
Do you keep like different folders for all your
different podcasts, too, in theapp?

Dave (12:24):
Yeah.
So in the app it's like everyother app you have folders and
then you can have folders insideof folders and then folders
inside the folder that's inside,yeah.
So Folderception, yeah.
And I back when I used to teachcomputer software and the thing
that I saw everybody just blowit on was file management.
Like everybody just storedeverything in my documents and

(12:46):
I'm like that's kind of likehaving a filing cabinet with one
folder in it, like you're notgoing to be able to find
anything later.
So I have it's very well.
If you look at my note joy justgoes on forever.
But it's like here are podcasts.
Like I have one folder forschool of podcasting episodes
and then I have one for schoolof podcasting ideas.
So one is like this is what I'mharvesting.
Now that it's done, I'll takemy notes and that way, if I'm

(13:09):
like have I ever talked aboutthis?
I can go into NoteJoy and do asearch for it.
But if NoteJoy goes away, I'min a world of hurt.

Jordan (13:18):
Alban, what do you use?
Because you're often liketaking notes and stuff like that
when you're out and about.

Alban (13:23):
I use something called Obsidian.

Jordan (13:26):
Oh, I think I've heard of that.

Alban (13:27):
And Obsidian is another note-taking app and I think
there's free versions of it.
But the main benefit is it'sall plain text files stored on
your computer and you can syncthem to other devices and I
think you can pay them to backthem up.
But the idea is, even ifObsidian goes away, you still

(13:48):
have all these files and they'reon your computer and they're
readable by any computer.
That's been made since thesixties.
The whole goal is this willnever, ever go away, cause I
think, like Dave you know, afterEvernote tripled their prices
and the product got worse,everyone realized we kind of
want a way out from when a pieceof software starts treating us

(14:09):
poorly.
I mean, kind of.
The lesson I think I've takenfrom this is this is one of the
things I love about RSS andpodcasting and a lot of website
building is it's all stillnormal file types that are not
proprietary, that are easilymovable to anywhere else.
So you know, whether you're onBuzzsprout or any other podcast

(14:31):
host, we're talking about MP3files and for notes, you're
talking about TXT files or MDfiles and just everything is
yours, and I think we've gottenso far away from that.
So, anyway, that's my notetaking app and I love it.

Dave (14:51):
The other thing I love about NoteJoy is they give you
an email so I can be reading.
So if somebody sends somethingin email, I can forward it.
And I just made a contact in myGmail account first name, note,
last name, joy and I forwardedthe NoteJoy and it goes into my
NoteJoy account.
And then they have much likeEvernote.
They have a clipping tool, soif I'm on a website, I can just

(15:11):
highlight an area and itbasically sends it into my
NoteJoy.
And the fact that it works on awebsite, it works on your
computer, it works on your phone, it works on a tablet, so you
are never far away from what youneed.
That's awesome.

Jordan (15:25):
That is super cool.
Okay, so, when coming up withideas, I think that a lot of
podcasters run into trouble whenthey are just like banging
their head against the walltrying to come up with ideas,
trying to like, just make ithappen.
And so you were talking abouthow you're just like constantly
aware of things.
How do you continually come upwith these ideas without you
know getting burned out orhitting a creative wall?

(15:46):
Or even if you do hit acreative wall, what are some
ways that you get over it?

Dave (15:50):
Well, the first thing is I live where my audience is, so I
hang out a lot on Reddit.
In Facebook I'm in theBuzzsprout group on Reddit and
I'm basically not there to sayanything, although I chime in a
lot.
A lot of it is just like whatare people talking about?
What are people stuck on?
Because I don't want to guess.
Do you think they'll like this?

(16:11):
I can be like well, I know gymmom 27, will you know when I can
see an exact question thatsomebody asked?
So there's that.
And then I listen to a lot ofpodcasts and.
I hear what people talk aboutand, yeah, when you get stuck,
that's the hard part.
And what has happened to me iseither my life changed, so, like

(16:33):
I used to, my very first showwas for musicians and I did that
for, I think, 12 years and Iwasn't a musician anymore.
The band I was in broke up, Iwas married.
It was just like okay.
So getting the content wasn'tas easy.
I did a show called Weekly WebTools Same thing.
I think I had reviewed everyweb tool on the internet and
that's when things get tough.

(16:53):
And right now, daniel J Lewisand I do a show called the
Future of Podcasting.
Well, originally, the idea thatwas there's a show called
Podcasting 2.0.
That is uber nerdy and I waslike, oh, I'm going to take that
content and see if I can bringit down to where, like, normal
people can understand it.
And the problem is I was reallyexcited about the kind of

(17:14):
streaming Satoshi parts and thathasn't officially gone away,
but it's definitely not where itwas before and that was going
to be my main thing.
So when the content goes away,it makes it really hard.
In fact, Daniel and I are bothkind of like what do you got?
And I think our next episode isjust going to be welcome to the
future of podcasting.
We just don't know what to talkabout.

(17:37):
So when it doesn't see if youcan find a new source of income
or not income, but content, andso this is where blogs come in
handy.
Like, I use In-Out Reader,there's Feedly, so you know.
And it sounds weird in a worldof podcasting like, oh, don't
forget about blogs.
But those a lot of times willtrigger me into like I didn't
even know that website existed.
So it's one of those where it'slike you go to the buffet and

(18:01):
you fill up your plate witheverything that you love and
then you're kind of like, oh,I'm out of food, and then
meanwhile, while you're eating,they added whole other things to
the buffet.
I didn't even know that.
What Bustle sprouts?
Oh, I love those, you know.
So, sometimes it's not a badidea to go back and pretend
you're starting over.
You know, maybe last time youuse Google to search, OK, maybe

(18:21):
this time you try perplexity oryou know something else and go
try Bing yes, it's still aroundand you might find out that, hey
, there's other sources ofmaterial.
And I think the other thingthat just for newbies, when
you're starting out, I highlyrecommend you time how much time
it takes to do your episode,Cause so many people try to

(18:44):
squeeze their life into theirpodcast.
And that is backwards.
You want to squeeze yourpodcast into your life.
And so many times people arelike, oh, I'm going to do a
daily show, and in my brain I'mgoing, no, you're not, because
that's the other thing.
The more you do it, you know,the more content you need.
And so I always recommend, I'mlike, hey, before you even hit
record, I'm not talking aboutwriting a script, just give me

(19:07):
10 topics that you're going totalk about.
And if they come back and theygo, yeah, I got seven.
And I'm like, yeah, well, whatare you going to do when episode
eight comes around, like youknow?
And then you just kind offigure it out and again, in some
cases, it's go find a newsource.
And that's where, again, itdoesn't matter if I'm trying to
think what I watched.
I watched the stick thing.
Not really anything there withpodcasting, but I could, because

(19:29):
golf is a lot like podcastingin the fact that you know if you
move your head or if you moveyour feet, all these little
things affect how the ball goes.
Well, your social media, yourmicrophone technique, you have
all these little things.
So I can turn an analogy intoanything.
So if whatever I'm watching,I'm always like, okay, is there

(19:49):
anything here?
And then I look at what arepeople talking about in you know
whatever Reddit and what's thehot topic, and then it's like,
okay, how can I squeeze thatinto podcasting?
So recently Ozzy Osbourne diedand I was really bummed.
That was like watching a bigchunk of my childhood just go up
in flames.
And I was like I don't reallywant to talk about podcasting.

(20:10):
And then I listened to hisaudio book and I'm like, wow,
there are a lot of really goodlessons here for podcasters,
like I don't know, don't dodrugs, kids, but other things on
how you know, he was superunique, like you knew Ozzy the
minute you heard him.
So it's just a matter of alwaysstaying open and then writing
it down.
And there are times when you'relike I don't want to do this

(20:32):
anymore because, oh, I mean,jordan Harbinger is a great
example.
When he did the Art of Charm,it was kind of a.
It had a slant of how to pickup people and, you know, be kind
of a player.
And he was like, yeah, I don'twant to be a 42 year old player,
you know.
So he switched to the JordanHarbinger show and there are
just times when you're like, hey, yeah, I started this show when

(20:53):
I was 22 and I'm not 22 anymore.
And I don't really care aboutthis, and if you're not
passionate about your subject,then you know it's time to go.
Hey, I'm going to stop doingthis show, but I am cause.
You know we can't stop.
I am starting this new show andif you'd like to hear more from
me, go over and visit me at youknow, and then promote your
website and send them on over.

Alban (21:14):
I'm hearing a few lessons that I want to take from this
Dave.

Jordan (21:16):
Yeah.

Alban (21:17):
One is you have started 30 shows, but you're only
running a handful of those now,because one sometimes the
creative inspiration leaves.
Two is the shows that are theones that stick around are the
ones you're immersed in thecommunities, whether that be the
Reddit, facebook communities,or you're reading the
newsletters, you're readingblogs, you're connected to

(21:41):
what's happening, and so yourmind's always kind of firing
with ideas.
Oh, here's my reaction to thispodcast, here's my reaction to
that take on Twitter.
And the combination of that isyou come up with lots of ideas,
and so when Wednesday comesaround and you go, what am I
going to talk about on Sunday?
Well, there's 40 notes sittingthere for you in note joy,

(22:03):
because you've been thinkingabout this constantly.

Dave (22:05):
Yeah.
And then it's a matter of thethings that still have that
passion, Like, hey, I wrote thatin NoteJoy a week and a half
ago.
Am I still passionate abouttalking about that?
Sometimes there are things thatI look at and go, oh yeah, I
see what I was thinking there,but now that we're never going
to talk about that.

Jordan (22:20):
Yeah.

Dave (22:25):
So it's that second kind of round of almost like a draft.
You know, you have your firstround, your second round.
It's like, okay, it's Wednesday, who's going to make it to the
big game on Sunday?
Because that's when I record.
And I'm like, okay, so we'regoing to talk about this and
then from there.
A lot of times I've already donethe research and it's in no joy
.
Or it's like, oh, I need to dosome more, like I did one about

(22:49):
running your podcast as abusiness and that took me about
a month and a half because I wasworking with these companies
that made business accounts foryour bank and they were
ridiculously slow and that wasthe problem.
I didn't realize that Iactually announced it like, hey,
next week we're going to talkabout running your podcast as a
business.
And it was like no, we're not,I can't get all the info I need.
So sometimes you pull thetrigger a little early, but it's
again where I'm not going tofeed you a turkey on
Thanksgiving that's half cooked.
So I was like, when that youknow, he said hey, I know, I

(23:12):
said last week we're going totalk about this.
Instead, we're talking aboutthis today.
And they already knew thatbecause it's on the title of the
episode.
But I just said I'm stillworking on that and my audience
appreciates the fact that I'mnot going to, you know, feed
them half cooked turkey, becauseI don't think that's going to
go over.
Well, but another area, becausewe're talking about solo shows
if you're doing an interviewshow and somebody was a killer

(23:32):
guest, here's a novel idea Bringthem back.

Jordan (23:35):
Yeah.

Dave (23:36):
You know what I mean.
It's like Glenn Hebert from theHorse Radio Network.
He's been on, I think, fivetimes and at at this point he
knows he just has an open door.
He'll send me something onFacebook or email is like, hey,
I got something for you.
I don't even ask what it isanymore because he's just he
knows what I talk about.
He knows my audience and soGlenn's been back a few times.

(23:56):
I've had a few people backbecause if they bring good
content and they're going tohelp educate my audience, I you
know why not.
So that's another thing, thatthe idea that I'm never going to
repeat myself.
You know, when I'm in thesegroups I see the same questions
over and over and over.
So there are times when I'm like, hey, I think I've talked about

(24:17):
imposter syndrome twice, I know, for a while every year.
Like the first episode ofJanuary was kind of a how to
launch your podcast of Januarywas kind of a how to launch your
podcast.
And over the years I've noticedmy audience is less kind of how
to start and more how to growthan they used to be.
And that might just be becauseit's easier to start a podcast
now, but yeah there's.

(24:38):
there's no rule that you knowthe podcast police are not going
to knock at your door and gohey, mr Jackson, I'm sorry, but
I think you did that back in2007.
Come with me.

Alban (24:49):
One of the questions I wanted to ask was how do you
avoid pod fade?
And what actually I've heard isyou've pod faded constantly.
You've had a bunch of showsthat you went, oh this was fun
for seven episodes and then I'mtotally okay letting that show
go because you learned avaluable lesson, which was, yeah
, I enjoyed talking aboutcustomer service for exactly

(25:10):
seven episodes and I didn't havemore in me.
That got me excited to go jointhose communities and learn more
and develop opinions about it.

Dave (25:18):
It started with delusions of grandeur, because I had won
awards for my customer servicestuff and I have plaques and
stuff, and I was like I'm goingto start this, I will position
myself as an expert and peoplewill hire me to come in, I'll be
doing presentations in front ofcompanies, and at seven
episodes I was like that's goingto take a couple of years.
And that's when I just realizedI was like, yeah, this is

(25:40):
something I'm good at, but it'snot something that, like, I'm
going to talk about.
I remember once I was at aChristmas party with my ex-wife
and somebody walked up and said,hey, are you the podcast guy?
And she just rolled her eyesand said, all right, I'll see
you in 20 minutes, cause shejust knew, like, this is what
Dave loves to talk about.
And so, yeah, I've never.
When it's not fun, life is tooshort.

(26:02):
When I did the show, myoriginal one was called the
Musician's Cyber Cooler, becauseback in 2005, boys and girls,
the internet was calledcyberspace.
And then cyberspace wasconnected to cyber sex and so I
was like, all right, it's notthe Musician's Cyber Cooler,
it's the Musician's Cooler Bigpicture of a water cooler.

(26:24):
And people still kind of like,so, like Bartles and James, like
what's huh, like wine coolers,and I was like okay.
So I was starting to run out offumes with that show and I was
like you know what I need?
I need to rebrand.
People are confused.
So I branded it the marketingmusician podcast.
Well, that's obvious, even gota custom theme song.
But the gas was out of the tankand I was just like, eh, and

(26:48):
the music business hadcompletely changed and I was
just like I wasn't proud of whatI was putting out anymore.
I was just like it was like,well, yeah, that'll do you know.
And it's like after a month anda half of like, eh, I guess
this will do you know, I got it.
I want to be consistent.
And so that's when I was like,yeah, you don't like this
anymore, and I just went, hey,thanks so much.
And I said I'm going on a verylong hiatus.

(27:10):
If I go, if I see somethingthat I really want to do, like
I'll come back and do an episode, but I'm not doing a weekly.
So I have a lot of shows thatare still going, but I haven't
put out an episode in you know10 years.
So so it's like I never.
I couldn't really bring myselfto kill it.
But the other one is what isthe overall goal of your life?
We're going to go deep into thepool here.

(27:31):
All right, it dawned on me thatI did a show called the Podcast
Rodeo Show, where you wouldlisten.
First of all, horrible name.
It has nothing to do withrodeos or horses.

Jordan (27:40):
I loved it though.

Dave (27:41):
And if you have to explain your name, you've picked a bad
one.
Yeah, to explain your name,you've picked a bad one, yeah.
And so it was.
I'll grab a podcast and see howlong I can hang on.
And I would just review likethe first couple minutes, and
after a while it just soundedlike, oh, this is the guy that.
Just, he's a nice guy and herips your podcast to shreds.
And I'm like, well, I don'twant to be the rip your podcast
to shreds guy, I want to be thehelpful teacher guy.

(28:03):
And I was just so I I kind ofdid a gentler version of that.
And then people were like, no,no, I want the Simon Cowell
version of this.
And so after a while I was likethis is not serving my purpose
as a podcast consultant, ifanything.
It's people like I don't wantto work with that guy, he's a
jerk.
And so I rebranded it and it's alittle more.
I mean, the podcast rodeo showwas constructive.

(28:28):
The early episodes were not andI was just like, all right,
let's rebrand this.
And then I also said I'm onlydoing that show because it's
kind of consulting if you pay me.
And so that show is veryinconsistent because not
everybody's paying me to get anaudit of their show.
But that was just another onewhere I was like, in the end,
this isn't really helping.
What I'm trying, you know, Iguess if we talk about a brand

(28:51):
like this show doesn't fit mybrand anymore and I just was
like, yeah, all right, that'senough of that one.
The other thing I don't doanymore is it used to be like if
Jordan would stand next to mein an event for, say, 20 minutes
, I would start a new podcastsomewhere in that 20 minutes.
Dave is starting anotherpodcast and I now know that.

(29:13):
You know, any of us could starta podcast and have it in Apple
probably in about two hours.
That's not the hard part, it'sgetting people to listen, it's
making great content.
So I've learned.
Now I'm like cause I think inthe early days at one point I
had seven podcasts going andthat's just.
I would rather if I had to doanything over again, I would do
one show and it would be amazingLike, hands down, don't even
try.

(29:33):
That's the guy If you want totalk to you know something about
podcasting or whatever.
He's the guy.
And it's hard to be the guywhen you're doing that show and
this show and then I'mresearching for that.
I got to do social because I'man army of one.

Jordan (29:45):
Yeah, I mean that's one of the things that you know
we're always saying keeppodcasting.
And I think that it's nice tohave like a little asterisk
there that says, as long as it'sstill your passion, right.
And if it's not still yourpassion, find that new passion
and start podcasting about that.
We could say that you pod fadedseveral times, but you didn't

(30:05):
actually pod fade, you juststarted new ventures, and I
think that there's a good lessonhere for podcasters that if
their podcast no longer servesthem, if it's not something that
they're super passionate aboutI don't have the same hobbies
that I had 10 years ago so if itno longer is in that lane for
you, either drop it and start upsomething else or, like you

(30:29):
done in the past, if you hadpivoted just slightly and you
just want to maybe do adifferent version of it because
maybe you've grown or matured asa person, then you could
rebrand it, so long as it stillapplies to the audience that are
already in that feed.

Dave (30:43):
Yeah, One of the questions I always ask people, and
they're like it confuses them.
I go how are you going tomeasure your success?
And they'll be like what do youmean?
I go, you're going to do this,why are you doing this?
And they'll be like oh, I wantto help people, I want to reach
the world, Great, Okay, how arewe going to measure our success?
And that's where I'll find out.
It's a very polite way of mesaying is this a hobby or a

(31:04):
business?
Because they'll say well,downloads.
And I'm like okay, but like,congratulations, I'm going to
wave my magic wand.
You now have 8,000 downloads,how has your life changed?
And they're like oh well, Idon't know, I'd probably get a
sponsor.
Oh, so, really, the goal hereis monetization.
And they're like well, yeah,I'd like to.
Okay.
So we need to know that upfront.
And the reason I always ask itis in January.

(31:24):
Everybody and their brother islike hey, this is the year we're
starting a podcast and mynumbers for the school of
podcasting will go through theroof In February, much like gym
memberships in America.
My numbers come down, but mymembership goes up.
So if I was only basing mysuccess on download numbers, I'd
be in the fetal position on thefloor in February?
Yeah, but because I based mysuccess on how many new members

(31:49):
I have, I'm ecstatic in February.
So you have to know, like, whyam I doing this?
Really, that's importantbecause if you don't get your
why, you are going to pod fadeand then how are you going to
measure your success?

Alban (31:58):
Yeah, it's so easy to look at numbers and just think
this isn't as big as it shouldbe, without any reference to the
purpose of the show.
I do have times where I noticeI can write something on a blog
for work and if it doesn't getthousands of reads, I go oh yeah
, that wasn't a great, we didn'tdo a great job here.
We should have done somethingdifferently.
But recently, personally,there's blogs I've written that

(32:20):
got 10 views and I'm like, dang,that's cool.
10 people like that enough toread it.
And I'm like, dang, that's cool.
10 people liked that enough toread it.
That seems like a lot and itjust depends on, like, what was
the purpose?
Was it sharing something andjust the sharing was the
important piece, or was it?
No, this needs to turn 40 hoursof work into real monetary
value and for that conversion tomake sense, there need to be

(32:45):
thousands of reads and thosereads turn into customers and
here's how that works.
So it is good to approach itfrom the beginning with what is
the goal here, so that you havea chance of actually succeeding
it, and then, when you succeed,being able to like, be proud of
yourself and go okay, that wasgood, we hit it.

Jordan (33:00):
Yeah.

Dave (33:00):
Well, when I have somebody say, well, I only got 80
downloads on that episode, I'mlike that's a hallway.
They're like what do you mean?
I go.
And I used to be a teacher I go.
We had 20 people in a classroom.
We had one hallway.
That was four rooms.
That's a hallway.
Now those people could belistening to serious, they could
be watching Netflix, they couldbe playing video games.
I go, but they chose todownload your show and I go, so

(33:22):
don't?
I always hate to hear the wordonly in front of a number.
I'm like if it's 20, that's afull classroom.
And when I would walk in and Ihad a full 20 people, I'm like,
ooh, I got to bring my A gametoday and I hope they pay
attention and you know thatwhole nine yards.
Now we all want bigger numbers,we all have an ego and we want

(33:45):
to.
It's like 100 people.
That's a small theater in somecases.

Jordan (33:49):
Yeah Well, and it's also , honestly, a source for ideas
and content too, if you have anengaged audience.
So, like one of my podcasts,it's over 13 million downloads.
But the audience I don't knowwhere they're at.
They are so far disengaged.
I don't know where they're at.
They are so far disengaged, noengagement whatsoever, will not
talk to me, and then you know,this podcast is like, obviously

(34:13):
nowhere near that, but we areconstantly getting engagement
and we're constantly gettingcontent, ideas.
We're constantly gettingquestions from listeners, or
stories or, you know, follow upon things that we can use for
our podcast, and so I think it'sreally, really valuable.
If you do have that smallengaged audience, make sure that
you have a way for them toreach out to you.

(34:34):
If you have like a text to showlink in the show notes, for
example, or an email that theycan email you, because you can
use listener feedback, questions, stories as a constant
generation.
Dave, you always have peopleasking questions at the end of
school podcasting or you havethese kind of like roundup
episodes where you will ask aquestion of the month and then

(34:57):
everyone sends in their voicemessages and you use that and
you use it as like commentary,and it's really cool because all
this engagement will fill out afull episode for you.

Dave (35:05):
Yeah, what I do there.
Because this is the thing.
If I said, hey, let me knowwhat you think, okay, probably
not going to get any answers,and if I do, they'll be like
it's cool.
So I ask a very specificquestion.
I let my audience specificallyknow how to answer it.
I'm like, hey, let me know, Goto schoolofpodcastingcom slash
question.
I need it by this date.

(35:28):
And while you're there, don'tforget to tell us a little bit
about your show and your website.
And I used to joke, I'm notgiving any awards.
Who can say their website thefastest?
Because people would be like,hey, thanks so much.
I'm from the such and suchpodcast, my website.
I'm like, what I'm like?
And I'm literally slowing itdown.
It's at 0.2 speed.
I'm like.
I think that was a K and it'sone of those things.

(35:48):
Every time I do that, by theway I go, is this going to be
the one where nobody answers?
Like the imposter syndromecomes in and I'm like, what if
nobody answers?
Well, if nobody answers, thenI'll answer the question myself.
Or make up someone AI to therescue, rescue yeah.

Alban (36:03):
We we did in the old days .
I used to do walkthroughs forBuzzsprout and I remember the
first time that I did one, I waslike no one's going to ask a
question at the end of thiswebinar, you know, and I might
have five people on here andnobody really wants to be the
first person to ask the question.
And so I wrote a couple of fakequestions that were written by
my wife or other people and Ijust put their names on it and I

(36:27):
was like, oh yeah, we got aquestion for Marie and here's
what she asked.
And as soon as I did that, thenall the other people started
jumping in with their questionsand I was like, oh, great
question.
And I was like all of that wasjust fear that I'd imagined.
Yeah.

Dave (36:39):
And as soon as people realized, hey asking questions
and them getting answered asnormal.
Then it kicked it off enoughthat we had tons of engagement.
Yeah, when I was probably 13, Icalled a radio station.
I'm like, hey, can you playsome Judas Priest?
And they're like, no like, butyou can request Loverboy.
And in my brain I you know mymouth I threw up just a little
bit thinking about Loverboybecause I was a Judas Priest fan

(37:00):
and I was like, hey, rock andRick, can you play some Loverboy
?
And he's like on 97.5, you know.
And there was my voice on theradio and that's.
And why did I do that?
Because I heard other people gohey, rockin' Rick, can you play
some, you know, whatever.
And so I called in, and so it'sthe same thing when you kind of
prime the pump, you know.
So have your cousin call in andleave a voicemail, and then

(37:20):
people go like yeah.

Alban (37:23):
Something that I've also kind of been picking up as we've
been talking, Dave, aboutcoming up with content ideas is
there isn't just one format, andsometimes I think it can feel
like the one format I have issolo show, where I teach
something and that well runs dry.
Oh, I'm doing teardowns andtalking about what could be

(37:46):
improved, how you could changesomething.
You can do a show where you'redoing an interview, you can do a
coaching call, you can do a youknow, explaining a myth about
podcasting, how it's wrong.
You can have a debate, you cando a case study, you can do a
mailbag and something about like.
As soon as you start thinkingof all the different formats at

(38:07):
least for me, it becomes wayeasier to think okay, I actually
could do the same show fourdifferent times, very similar,
but one of them is a teardown ofanother show showing what it
does well, and another one couldbe the mailbag episode.
One could be you just workingthrough the blog post in your
bullets, and all of those willhave different takes, even if

(38:28):
they end up being on likesimilar topics.

Dave (38:30):
Absolutely I.
I started a segment calledbecause of my podcast and I
would just ask people I'm likehey, can you answer this
question Because of my podcastblank.
And that blank is somethingthat wouldn't have happened,
except you had a podcast.
And all that is is that's Davetired of saying you really
should had a podcast?
And all that is is that's Davetired of saying you really
should start a podcast?
Like, really, there's so manybenefits.

(38:52):
But when somebody else does, Ican go hey, lookie, what they
did.
If they did it, you can do it.
So it's a very passive,aggressive way of promoting the
school of podcasting.
And but you know, when somebodygoes, you know like I just saw
where Lou Mangiello is going toGermany because he does a Disney
podcast and he's going to getto see the new cruise ship that

(39:13):
just launched in Germany I'mlike that's because of my
podcast story.
And people like whoa, I didn'tknow that, you know.
So, yeah, but same thing for me.
I mean, if I get tired oftalking about content, well,
let's talk about gear.
Okay, well, let's talk abouthow much I hate Spotify and
YouTube.
That never gets, and it's funnybecause you would think that
would get old.
But people like oh, I love itwhen you rant about so-and-so,

(39:35):
we get that too.

Jordan (39:36):
It's so weird.

Dave (39:37):
And it's again.
I have a jingle for that.
I have one that's like and nowit's time for a power rant, you
know, and it's like people arelike oh, I love it, Dave's going
to go off and go crazy, and I'mlike all right, you know, and
it's just my opinion.
So anytime things are kind ofgetting, you know, am I going to
do this or that?
I can just go.
Oh, you know what, let's talkabout gear as much as I go.

(39:59):
It's not the gear boy.
Does my audience love to talkabout gear?

Jordan (40:02):
You know, it's actually so smart about your because of
my podcast.
Thing, too, is that you'reappealing to people's egos.
There's been so many times thatI have myself thought, oh, I
should send this in because Iwas excited that something
happened because of my podcast Ione that comes to mind was um,
I got a deal with a children'sapp and the only reason that

(40:23):
happened was because of mypodcast.
I was like so pumped about,pumped about it and, for
whatever reason, I immediatelythought, oh, this would be such
a good thing for Dave's podcast,but this was like way before.
Yeah, it was way before.
I had like met you in personand I never get the fact that
it's scary to send things toDave.

Dave (40:40):
I'm like I'm I'm pretty much a big powder puff, like
just I'm a huggable kind of guy,you know.
But I, when I go to podcasts,oh I, I was in an elevator with
you but I didn't say hi and I'mlike, why story?

(41:05):
You know?

Alban (41:06):
schoolofpodcastingcom slash contact, send it on over
All right, Dave, so you got togive us one what is, you know,
as small of a kind of story asyou can give us a really cool
moment.
That happened because of yourpodcast.

Dave (41:18):
Short is not my strong suit, but here's the fun part
Back when the New Media Expo wasthe event so this was back a
ways the head of that steppeddown, and so the head of the New
Media Expo talked to some folksat different media hosts, and
all three of them, he calledthree of them and they all said
what do you think about DaveJackson?

(41:38):
So welcome to humble bragtheater is what we should call
this.
So the guy turned around andcalled me and he's like well,
I'm not going to call anybodyelse, because everybody's saying
you Now, how did that happen?
Because of my podcast, becauseI'd interviewed all those people
or I'd met them at events.
So I'd build a relationship,and I always say podcasts build
relationships that lead toopportunities, and those

(41:58):
opportunities lead to morerelationships, which lead to
more opportunities no-transcript.

Alban (42:36):
Well, some people will tell you I really love editing
podcasts and I love putting themtogether, and you go okay.
And then you go, look, andJordan actually has a history of
doing podcasts for years.
And then we go, okay, well,this is an easy hire.
This person's obviously tellingthe truth.
We can see.
Oh, she says I love engagingwith podcasters in Facebook.
Well, we knew that was truebecause she was engaging with

(42:58):
podcasters on our Facebook.
And there's something too ifyou're creating a podcast
because you're passionate aboutit, it's a real proof point to
everyone in the world.
If you think you need someoneto run the podcasting track at
New Media Expo, the guy who'sbeen doing podcasts about
teaching you how to podcast foryears is going to be kind of the
obvious answer.
And if you're trying to hiresomeone to edit and host

(43:20):
podcasts at Buzzsprout, well,maybe the person who's in your
Facebook group constantlytalking about her podcast and
how much she loves Buzzsprout isa pretty easy hire.

Dave (43:29):
Exactly.
I spoke to an event in Chicagoand somebody said you're not a
podcaster, you're a brand.
And we all kind of went howdare you, I am a podcast.
He's like, no, you're a brand.
And he said you have to figureout what you want to be known
for and make that your show.
He goes because you're knownfor what you're known for, so

(43:49):
I'm a podcast.
It's like the guy that came upat the Christmas party hey, are
you the podcast guy?
Yeah, you know.
So when people come up and like, hey, are you the horse guy?
Hey, are you the NASCAR person?
Are you the Disney guy?
You know, and that's whatyou're known for.
And then people when they go,well, I need a Disney person,
they go oh, I got the person foryou, it's Lou Mangiello.

Alban (44:05):
Exactly.
And then Disney goes.
You know, we really need to getthe word out about this new
cruise ship.
Who are we going to call up?
And you know they've got aninternal list of all these
people who create content aboutwhat makes Disney special and
Lou's probably up near the topof that list and they go well,
we've got to get Lou out here.
So make sure we send him aticket and an invite and then he

(44:26):
gets the opportunity.
I mean, that might maybe that'sthe differentiator between a
show that might pod fade, whichyou know, you kind of would like
to be known as the person whowas the expert in a specific
area.
But it may not be a passion, itmay just be kind of a desire to
be successful.
Yeah, and being able to stickwith it is like, oh, this is
something I really love, andthen that proof point kind of

(44:49):
bears itself out over time.

Dave (44:50):
Why I hear a lot of people say, well, what you should do
is go to YouTube or go towherever and find another show
like yours and see what'spopular over there.
And I'm like, but if we all dothat, like we're all going to
end up talking about the exactsame thing, and if you're not
passionate about that, I getthis strategy.
It makes sense.
Hey, this is obviously if thisperson shares an audience with

(45:11):
me and it was popular over there, it might be popular over here.
But if it's something I don'twant to talk about, like I don't
really like.
If somebody got something aboutyou know 10 different
microphones and I'm like, oh, Ishould do an episode about 10
different microphones.
No, I should do an episodeabout 10 different microphones.
No, I don't want to do that,that's not my jam.
So that's the part I go I getthe strategy.
But if that's not really whatyou want to talk about because

(45:34):
what happens if I did an episodeabout here at 10 podcasting
microphones and it wentballistic You're like, oh great,
yeah, except now I got to talkabout stuff that I don't want to
talk about.

Jordan (45:51):
Yeah, if just based our entire content calendar off of
what's hot, what's trending,this entire podcast would be
about Spotify, YouTube and AI,that's it, and we'd be the
Spotify, YouTube and AI podcast.
And I don't think anyone wantsthat, Even though it's hot
topics right.
It's hot and it's the podcast.
And I don't think anyone wantsthat, Even though it's like hot
topics right.

Dave (46:08):
It's hot and it's the thing, and I'm sure when we go
to podcast movement, there willbe a lot of discussion about
those exact things.

Alban (46:14):
Yeah.

Dave (46:16):
That's where I kind of go.
So let me get this straight.
You're going to be a thoughtleader in your show by letting
AI write your script based ondata from a few years ago.
How does that work?
Again, my logical brain kind ofskips a beat on that.
I'm like I'm not sure that'sgoing to work.

Alban (46:33):
Dave, when you say, go somewhere else, see what's
successful and then replicatethat, and you're saying, yeah,
that doesn't work.
I mean, you're talking aboutdoing 10 different podcast mics
and I immediately thought ofAndrew Scott, who does
podcastage and he's at 10 yearsof reviewing mics.
He really enjoys that and doesa really good job and so anytime

(46:55):
I've ever thought what isdifferent about this mic, he's
got the review, he goes througheverything about it and you
learn a ton.
I'm not that person.
So when we start talking aboutgear, we wrote a blog post about
what podcast gear do you need?
And I went we can't make a badblog post summarizing 10 years
of what Bandrew's already doneand just like saying here's like

(47:17):
the 10 things and then likelinks to all these Amazon pages.
I'm like that's what everyoneelse has done and we're just
going to do a worse version.
And then I went well, the thingI actually want to read is
somebody just saying, hey,here's what you should start
with, just go get it.
And also, after 10 years,here's what I came up with and
here's why I like it.
But like, then you're done.
And we wrote that one and thatended up being one of the best

(47:39):
equipment blogs who wrotebecause it was like maybe
uniquely buzzsprout and therewasn't somebody else who'd
already written it, and wedidn't try to replicate someone
else.
We actually went in a oppositedirection because we knew trying
to replicate what somebody elsedid was a losing strategy,
because they already were doingit, probably a lot better than
we would do it.

Jordan (47:57):
Yeah.

Dave (47:58):
I just did a thing where I'm now teaching a live course
for six weeks every Thursdaynight and I did this big email
campaign and I followed all thisand you know, I had a business
coach coaching me on every emailand, like I sold some seats,
but not as many as I wanted to.
And he said, okay, now write aemail asking people why they

(48:18):
didn't buy.
And I was like, ooh, that'sawkward.
Like hey, hi, I'm the guy thatyou didn't, you know, believe in
enough to you know, buy hisstuff, like you know.
And plus, there's a part of meit's like why, why didn't you
buy my stuff, you know?
And I sent it out.
It's the best thing I've everdid, because I found out that I
was selling a kind of a like howto get up and running, how to

(48:40):
launch your podcast, kind ofthing.
Yeah, a large chunk of my emaillist is people that have
already launched and they'vebeen doing this for two years.
And I said, well then, what doyou want to learn?
And they're all like, how do Igrow this thing?
What's this?
And then that's always thealmighty question.
And so there may be times thatyour show isn't bad.
You've just attracted the wrongaudience.

Jordan (49:11):
You know, again, it's not bad, it's just they don't
want what you're selling.
So maybe your marketing needsto shift, because the people
you're hanging out with are notthe people that need your show.
That's exactly what happenedwith my podcast was I created it
for kids and, unknown to me,took off among adults.
So my podcast I made for kids,adults went hog wild for it and
it turned out that, like once Isent out a listener survey and I
started getting comments frompeople about what they wanted to
hear more of, I went, oh, myaudience isn't kids anymore,

(49:35):
it's adults, and I I literallytook my podcast out of the kids
and family category, put it inmental health, and it did so
much better because I hadpivoted and I was doing, you
know, more adult content.
You know Jane Austen, sherlockHolmes kind of stuff.
So it's really good to listento your audience and, like be
aware of what they do want.

Dave (49:54):
Yeah, that's my old customer service stuff.
I was always about let's, let'sgo talk to our customers and
find out what they want, causeotherwise you know you're
serving roast beef to a veganand they're like yeah, thanks,
but no thanks.

Jordan (50:08):
I am very, very excited for our listeners to hear this
episode.
I think that this is going toreally help them when they feel
fearful that they're not goingto have ideas for the podcast.
I honestly think if you justpull some of these tips and make
sure that you are passionateabout your topic, make sure that
your publishing cadence is at arate where you're not going to

(50:30):
run out of ideas very quickly,Maybe you can adjust those kinds
of things and you know where tolook for ideas.
Then you should never run outof ideas for your podcast.

Dave (50:39):
There you go, yeah, and you may run out of passion, but
you won't run out of ideas.
And if you do, you know it'stime to start the new podcast.

Jordan (50:46):
I love that.
Thank you so much, Dave.
Dave, if our listeners are justsuper excited to get a hold of
you, where can they do that?
Where can they find you?

Dave (50:54):
Yeah, my main website is schoolofpodcastingcom.
If you want to see the 8million things I'm up to, you
can go to powerofpodcastingcom.

Jordan (51:03):
Awesome and for our next deep dive episode it's a long
form episode I want to talkabout how to cut down on editing
time, so if you have found waysto make the time you spend
editing your podcast shorter,please send those in by tapping
the Texas show link in the shownotes.
And, as always, thank you forlistening and keep podcasting.
I saw that there was a study,like a recent study, and they

(51:31):
said that the music that youlisten to between the ages of 13
and 17 are like the mostfoundational, like kind of it
has like the biggest impact onyou as a person.
And I was thinking I'm like man, what music was I listening to
at 13 and 17, like between thoseages?
I'm kind of curious what musicyou guys were listening to and

(51:51):
maybe how that impacted you.

Dave (51:53):
The fun thing was I was a very young hippie because I'm
the baby of the family, so Igrew up with my brothers and
sisters Beatle Stuff and thenlater I got into hard rock and I
remember like for me it soundsweird.
Van Halen's first album is likesomething in the case, like
only break in case of emergency,like I do not listen to that

(52:16):
album because I love it so muchthat no matter how bad a mood
I'm in when we get to, I thinkit's track six is like atomic
punk.
I'm like, yeah, and it justbrings back all these great
memories and it's just a greatthing there's.
I wish I knew the name of thisdocumentary, but there's one
where it's people in not hospice, but they're in elder care and

(52:37):
they're, you know, the lightsare on but nobody's home.

Jordan (52:39):
Yeah.

Dave (52:40):
And they put headphones on them and start playing music
from, like you said, like theirtwenties, and this one guy could
barely move and gets up andstarts dancing.
What it's a?
Yeah, it's a.
I'll have to find the link toyou, but it was just amazing.

(53:00):
So, yeah, I'm totally with youthat.
So for me, I grew up on VanHalen and Ozzy and Judas Priest,
but I also had the Beatles.
I mean, I grew up with, oh goodGod, harry Belafonte was what
my mom and Benny, benny Goodman,my mom, my dad, listened to
country, and I mean country whenit was country, three chords
and the truth, that kind ofstuff.
Saturday morning he'd come inwe're trying to sleep in.
He grabbed the blinds and thesun hits you in the face.

(53:21):
Sun's up, why aren't you?
And then he'd go in the livingroom and turn on, and that's why
me and my brother have reallybad memories of country music
because we were forced to.
You know that.
And Hee Haw I had to watch HeeHaw on Saturday nights.

Jordan (53:36):
Oh, yeah, so.

Dave (53:39):
I don't know, Alban.
What did you listen to growingup?

Alban (53:41):
This is kind of a strange thing to say, but I did not
really love music until I wasprobably like 14.
Oh, wow I think I just grew uplistening to a lot of like
family music.
You know, the music we listen toas a family when we're in the
car, yeah, and so it's kind ofjust like everyone's music and
so it didn't have as much.
Now it's nostalgic, but itnever then had a deep like
impact until probably likeeighth grade, and so you're

(54:04):
probably maybe these are theright.
Uh, ages jordan, but I thinkthere's a lot of a lot of
radiohead, red hot chili peppers, oh yeah, probably uh, linkin
Park in there, some angstyteenager music, a lot of like
Christian music, I'm sureOutkast.

Jordan (54:23):
Oh yeah.

Alban (54:23):
That's probably the stuff that I was listening to then.
It is funny, like you are rightthe music that you listen to at
that age.
Maybe it's because yourpersonality is changing so much.
Some of it made its way intoadult album.
Some of it is clearly just likeit stayed in the 15-year-old
version and never made itthrough.

Dave (54:45):
Yeah, Well, and it's interesting because if you
listen to their new stuff, whichsounds just like their old
stuff, in many cases you're likewhy doesn't this like?
Why am I not wanting to pump myfist in the air?

Jordan (54:58):
Yeah, it doesn't hit the same.

Dave (54:59):
I'm like I'm not 17, thinking my parents are idiots.
You know what I mean.
But back then that's what thesongs were about, you know, and
it's like oh yeah, I now havemad respect for my parents.
And there's no song like that,like, yeah, my dad was awesome.
You know, you don't hear thatin too many songs.

Alban (55:14):
So, yeah it's funny I I've gone back and listened to a
little bit of Lincoln parkrecently and I'm like none of
this describes my childhood, butit's all like it's very whiny
music.
It's like so angry and I'm'mlike I didn't have this anger at
that age and I didn't have theexperiences of this music, but

(55:37):
still it resonated that I was,like you know, playing video
games like, yeah, this isawesome jordan did we get your
picks?

Jordan (55:45):
you know I was trying to think of this and, um, I think
that I actually had a very umgenre fluid upbringing I was
brought up like in my teen yearsI was very similar to you where
I listened to like a lot of theBeatles or like even the
monkeys and like that kind oflike 60s rock.

(56:06):
But then also I was reallyheavy into my dad, was super
into like blue, so it was likeMuddy Waters and Bo Diddley and
like Stevie Ray Vaughan andstuff like that.
So I have that kind offoundation.
And then my mom was also intolike Black Sabbath and the who
and Electric Light Orchestra andthen she also got really into

(56:29):
like the emo phase with me in mymid teens.

Alban (56:32):
So my mom and I would I don't think you've ever told us
you had an emo phase, but Icould have guessed it.

Jordan (56:36):
Oh, I had a big emo phase I had the haircut and
everything.
But mom and I would just rockout to like Taking Back Sunday
and my Chemical Romance andstuff like that.
In fact she always stole my CDsand I'd have to go in the car
and like get them back becauseshe was just like so into it.
So it was a lot of like emostuff.
And then, like in the lateryears, we started getting into
like this like indie revival oflike Death Cab for Cutie and

(56:57):
stuff like that.
So I have like a very widesmattering of genres.
It's all.
It's all like rock and bluesbased, I think, but it's it's
pretty wide.

Alban (57:06):
I don't know.

Jordan (57:06):
I don't know what that says about me I have.
Maybe that's why I have toomany hobbies or something.
I don't know.

Alban (57:11):
Death Cab for Cutie and Taking Back Sunday were
definitely.
Those are two that have made it.
They made it from my teens intothe adult version of me.
Taking Back Sunday came throughJacksonville like a few years
ago and my buddy and I went.
We were like this is thegreatest show we've ever been to
and it was everybody, was ourage and we're everyone's like oh
man, this is just formativemusic age and where everyone's

(57:33):
like oh man, this is justformative music, you know what?

Jordan (57:39):
So the lead singer of Taking Back Sunday they came to
Boise and we saw them it was meand my friend and I saw him at a
bar and he asked me to sit withhim and so I sat with him and
like hung out with him for awhile and I wanted to like
absolutely die because I lovedhim so much.

Dave (57:51):
I think it was the last podcast, movement Evolutions,
and I'm sitting there and I lookover and I go.
I'm pretty sure that's thedrummer of Guns N' Roses, what?
Yes?
Yeah, and I go hey like are youso-and-so?
And he's like yeah, and I'mlike oh.
And then my brain was like oh,it is him.
And I was just like, and I wasjust like love, love your stuff.
He's like thanks, man.

(58:11):
And I was like, okay, yeah.
So that was kind of crazy.

Jordan (58:15):
It's so funny how you get like so starstruck around
these kind of people.

Alban (58:19):
It is and it's.
Uh, there's gotta be a skillsetfor being able to talk.
You almost have to not knowsomebody really well to be like
a normal fan.
I think that if you've listenedto everything someone's done
you've listened to a thousandepisodes of Dave's show and then
you see him at podcast movementit's going to feel a bit weird
because you're like oh, you'vejust talked to me for a thousand
episodes, but I've never talkedto you.

(58:40):
Yeah, there's almost somethingthat makes it easier when you're
only like a casual fan.

Dave (58:45):
Yeah, yeah, I listened to Curry and the Keeper, so I know
Adam's wife through that and Igot to hang out with them at a
Christian conference that he wasspeaking at.
And as I walk up I hear hervoice coming out of her head and
it just made me smile and I waslike, oh, wow, that's weird,
tina Curry's voice is coming outof that woman, you know.
And I was like, and then it'slike, oh, that's because it's

(59:08):
Tina Curry.
And then after that you'restill like, wow, but it's, it's
her voice.
It's like, right there, I'veheard it.
So it's weird to kind of likenot fanboy out.
And and then it's weird because, like I had a friend of mine,
I've always said if you come toAkron Ohio, I will buy you some
Luigi's pizza.
There's not much here in AkronOhio, but Luigi's pizza is where
it's coming to.
And he said do you remember howyou used to close the very

(59:30):
first podcast for musicians?
And I go, dude, I don'tremember what I did for
breakfast, you know.
And he said you used to say forthose who have money there is
therapy and for the rest of usthere is music.

Alban (59:42):
And.

Dave (59:42):
I go.
I said that, and he's like,yeah, I go, that's not bad and
but it's weird, because theyknow it's not weird, it's just
like they know you through yourshow and I have no idea.
Even when I went to get pizza,I told my brother I go, hey, in
the event, I end up deadtomorrow.
It was George and I'm likebecause I don't really know this
person that I'm going to meet,but they remember everything you

(01:00:04):
said, so that's always kind of,and then you bond over the show
and then you got a new friend.

Jordan (01:00:10):
Well, that's the hard thing as a fan too is like it's
like you want to convey to thisperson how important they are to
you and how much of an impactthey've had on your life, but
you don't want to come across aslike a stalker, like it's like
what's the least creepy versionof how deeply I care for this
person.

Dave (01:00:28):
Well, and you don't realize the impact you've made.
My favorite ever was a womancame up to me I was doing a book
signing and she said you'reDave Jackson.
And I go, yeah, and she goes oh, thank you so much for you.
Know, I listened to your showand if it wasn't for you I
wouldn't have long.
And I was like, oh, thank youvery much, that's very nice to
say.
And she goes no, and I'm likeyou don't get it Like if it

(01:00:51):
wasn't for you and she'd justshower, and I'm really
uncomfortable.
I don't know about you.
I'm awful at acceptingcompliments.

Jordan (01:00:59):
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Dave (01:00:59):
And so I was like well, so fun.
And literally a third timeshe's like no, you still don't
get it.
And I was like okay, well, thatmakes me feel very good, thank
you so much.
And finally that was like anacceptable answer.
But that's when I was like itwas a great exercise in like
okay, I guess I'm going to learnhow to accept compliments now,
cause I'm doing a horrible jobat this.

Jordan (01:01:18):
Yeah.

Dave (01:01:18):
But that was a that was a fun one, and it was.
I'm much better at that nowCause I got lots of practice
with that person.

Jordan (01:01:24):
Well, you're gonna have to use that practice when you go
to podcast movement next week,cause I'm sure you're going to
get a whole lot more of that.

Dave (01:01:31):
Well with you.
As soon as you hear your laugh,you're like oh, that's Jordan.

Jordan (01:01:35):
I know I'm looking forward to that one.

Dave (01:01:39):
Yeah.