Spotify's Latest Changes: What You Need To Know with Krystal Proffitt

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In this episode, Krystal Proffitt joins Jordan and Kevin to talk about what happened at Podcast Movement Evolutions in Las Vegas and how to access all of Spotify's newest features.

View the DISCUSSION THREAD on Twitter!

Visit Krystal's website at https://krystalproffitt.com/ to find her amazing podcasting resources and follow her podcast!

PODCAST MOVEMENT EVOLUTIONS
https://evolutions.podcastmovement.com/

PODNEWS REPORT CARD
Podtrac Podcast Platform Data
Podnews Report Card

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https://podcasters.spotify.com/resources/news/announcement

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Episode Transcript

Kevin (00:00):
I took that as a personal nod to Kevin, thank you that

(00:03):
they recognize that all of thecontent they have in there is
not a podcast that they're like,technically, it's not a podcast,
but it's, you know, like the JoeRogan show is not a podcast
right now. It's a show. So Ireally appreciate it that
Spotify is trying to win meover.

Jordan (00:14):
Is it working?

Krystal (00:16):
They're trying. It's a slow burn.

Jordan (00:25):
On this episode of Buzzcast Alban is out, so we
have invited Krystal Proffitt ofthe Proffitt Podcast and the
Poddy Report back on. Hi,Krystal.

Krystal (00:36):
Yeah, I love being here. Thank you for inviting me,
Jordan, and it's good to seeyou, Kevin. Yeah, it's say that
because I literally was gonnasay I just saw Jordan. It hasn't
even been a week. We weretogether like just hanging out
just a second ago. So yeah, thisis awesome.

Kevin (00:53):
So how was it? You guys were just at Podcast Movement
Evolutions, right?

Krystal (00:56):
Yes. In Vegas.

Kevin (00:58):
Okay, so that is like a conference that I've never been
to like, which is surprisingbecause I've been to most
podcast conferences, but I'venever made it over to
evolutions. And I've heard thisfrom from people. But I want to
hear your take on like, what isthe big difference between
Podcast Movement Evolutions andthe regular Podcast Movement, I
guess, proper, or originalPodcast Movement that takes
place every summer.

Krystal (01:18):
So for me specifically, this is the first time I've ever
attended Evolutions, the lasttime I went to a Podcast
Movement was actually inNashville in 2021. So the
comparison is like night day,because that was like the height
of Delta and Mark Cuban beingthere. And like all the things
that happened in Nashville thatyear, but this one definitely

(01:39):
felt smaller. I had talked to afew people that said that they
were expecting maybe 1500 peoplethere. I'm not sure what the
exact number was, but it justfelt a lot more intimate. The
other ones that I've gone to, Ifeel like were just podcasters
everywhere. And they're like,hey, you know, there's just like
a different kind of energy,where everyone just felt like,

(02:00):
listen to my show. And this iswhat it's about. And this is
what I'm trying to do. And thatCreator energy that I just I've
really felt at Podcast Movement.
The last time I went was missingat this one. This one felt a
little bit more. I'm trying tothink of the right word to say
it because it's not a knock onlike industry podcast, but it's
it just felt more like corporatein a way that it hasn't felt

(02:22):
previously at other podcastsconferences. Like I felt like
there was a lot more suits.
That's the best way to say it.
Like there are a lot more suitsrunning around. Yeah, that I'm
like, Oh, they must be animportant person where I'm like,
Hey, I'm in my workout clothes.
And I'm just I showed up tobecause this is how I podcast.

(02:43):
This is how I live my life. Andthat was the biggest thing is I
felt like so much of it wascatered to industry
professionals, or people thatare looking to make not just a
business out of their podcast,but like, create a brand like
smart lists. And you know, JoeRogan, and like these, the
biggest podcast in the world.
And that was the biggest one.

(03:03):
But Jordan, I don't know whatother things you want to add.

Jordan (03:07):
I definitely agree with you that it felt a lot more
corporate, I think there was areally heavy focus on branded
podcasts. There were so manytalks about that. But it was
definitely more intimate thanPodcast Movement. And it was so
weird because we were in such abig space in this casino,
essentially. And I knew a lot ofpeople that were there. And for

(03:31):
like days, I was just likecircling the expo hall, like
hoping to see people. Iliterally would like sometimes
be in the expo hall for like 40minutes waiting for a session
and like, kind of looking forpeople that I know. And like
nobody stopped to talk. Like Ididn't see anyone I knew. It was
so weird.

Kevin (03:48):
So this is very different than what my perceptions had
been about Evolutions because Ithought, in my mind, Evolutions
was a place more for independentpodcasters and people who were
like looking to get intopodcasting, like a place for
beginners to go. But it soundslike that's not either my
perception was totally off, orit's like maybe evolutions is
shifting a little bit.

Krystal (04:08):
I think back again, I don't like the comparison of
like my previous experience. Andthis one, I would say that there
were so many more people justgetting started at the previous
Podcast Movement that Iattended, whereas this one,
there were still some beginners,right? They had a beginner
tract, and they had, you know,people that were they just
recently started in the last fewmonths or they were about to get

(04:31):
started. But I felt like thatwas the exception and not the
rule. Most people were therethat were some of them that
didn't even have a podcast. Theywere agents or they were podcast
networks, or they were editorsor managers that were looking
to, I guess find the next JoeRogan person like I don't know,
like I don't really know whattheir whole shtick was, but I

(04:53):
felt like there was a lot moreof that that I hadn't seen
previously.

Jordan (04:57):
I think that this Podcast Movement was a little
less attended because it wasbased in Las Vegas. Like I had
talked to so many people. And Iwas like, Are you coming? Are
you coming? And they're like,No, I don't like, I don't like
Vegas. I don't want to go toVegas. This was the third time
I've been there. I really enjoywalking around and like seeing
just all the sights and theshows and stuff like that. This

(05:18):
was a very different experiencegoing to a conference there was
not so great. I mean, it was inthe casino, right? So like, you
just walked in, I had to wash myclothes when I got home because
they just kind of smelled likecigarettes. The other thing was
how expensive it was. It wasnever that expensive before. So
Kevin, they had a Starbucks inthe hotel. I got to breakfast

(05:42):
sandwiches and two coffees. Whatdo you think that cost me?

Kevin (05:45):
It was expensive? I mean, how is Starbucks pricing not
standardized across, at leastthe US? You would think to
breakfast sandwiches and twocoffees that that should be like
no more than 20 to $23.

Jordan (05:57):
It was $50.

Kevin (05:58):
Yeah, that's crazy.
That's like more than airports.

Krystal (06:01):
Yeah. Oh, no, it was more expensive than the airport
for sure. For sure.

Jordan (06:06):
So I want to touch on the things that I did really
enjoy from Podcast MovementEvolutions. And Kevin, you and
Alban had talked about how atpod fest, like you had people
like Buzzcast listeners come up.
And I finally got to experiencethat this time at evolutions.
And it was really fun. I got tosee people from the Facebook
group and get to hug them inperson. And that was really
awesome. And then also doing thepod News Live show on the stage

(06:29):
at evolutions was really coolmoment. For me, that was really
fun. And it was great, because Ihave always kind of had a little
bit of an insecurity about howmuch I outline. I feel like I do
it too much where to the pointwhere it's like almost scripted.
And I was so relieved to seethat James and Sam actually
outline the heck out of thePodnews Weekly Review. And I was

(06:52):
just like, yes, I've never beenso comfortable on stage, as when
I had that in my hand.

Krystal (07:00):
This is like the number one thing that has helped me
because Jordan, Jordan and Iwill always say like, we're on
the opposite ends of thespectrum, when it comes to
editing, like Jordan knows howto masterfully like curate
something that's just going tobe like, you know, the most
sweetest thing that could everhit your ears and me, I'm like,

(07:20):
I'm gonna record this and I'm,unless I make a huge mistake,
there's gonna be absolutely zeroediting. And I'm gonna run that
maybe through magic masteringand we're calling it. That is my
level of editing. But it reallydoes help the more that you have
things scripted out. And even ifyou don't say it verbatim, I
always tell people like you wantto be scripted, but not sound

(07:42):
scripted. And that's where youkind of it just comes in
practice, practice, practice,practice, the more that you
record. And the more that youput stuff out there. It just
really helps you read youroutlines faster or know like
those key elements that you wantto remember or say, or you even
want to quote yourself, and youknow, not be all weird about it.

(08:03):
But say something like, Oh, thisis the point I want to like,
reiterate like, say it once andthen say it again slowly,
because you're just trying toput the emphasis on it. But it
really does help that script. Ilove it.

Kevin (08:16):
Krystal, you ran a session, right?

Krystal (08:17):
Yeah, it was on the beginner track. And it was
called How to Talk to Yourself.
And it was lessons learned from1000 podcast episodes. So which
is crazy, crazy, like it isbananas 1000 podcast episodes.
So for you know, anybody thatthat doesn't know. So I didn't
mention earlier, I have a dailypodcast. And at this point, that

(08:38):
Daily Show, which I started in2020 has 790 ish episodes that
we're up to now. So that onealone has so many and then my
profit podcast has, you know,400 So we're I mean, we're at
1100 episodes at this point. Andso I thought, Well, it'd be
really fun. I mean, first ofall, what a name right? Yeah.

(08:59):
1000 episodes, people are like,cool. What in the world? What
are you talking about? But yeah,that was it was so fun, and the
beginners that showed up there.
So this is one thing becauselike Jordan, I said, it was very
intimate. And that wasn't alwayslike a bad thing. Like it was a
really awesome thing. Because Ifelt like if the sessions would

(09:21):
have been a lot bigger, itwouldn't have allowed for such a
I guess a space where peoplecould ask really good questions
and then like come up later andchat with you or ask questions
like, Hey, let's go out to thehall you know, and talk for a
little bit, which you don'treally get that if the sessions
were huge. And so that was thatwas a lot of fun. But it was it

(09:42):
was great. I loved havingJordan. Jordan was like my
cheerleader and she was like, Ohmy God! This is great. She
laughed at all my jokes which isI mean to to anybody, like that
was fantastic.

Jordan (09:53):
And I have like a really loud cackle so I'm sure that
helps. No, I loved that you hadlike an Oprah moment. To have
like you get a book, you get abook.

Krystal (10:02):
Yes, yes. So I had my husband go with me. And that was
fun too. So Jordan and I bothhad our husbands. And that was,
that was interesting too,because I had never gone with me
before. And he vaguely he's notinto podcasting. He's not in a
digital marketing onlinebusiness space. So he doesn't
really get to see what I do. Andso for him to come and help out

(10:23):
and watch me speak on stage, andhe handed out copies of my book,
to people that ask questions, itwas it was a lot of fun. It was
really cool.

Kevin (10:30):
It's great. So what were what was the size of the rooms?
Like big rooms, but smallercrowds? Or?

Krystal (10:36):
Yeah, I mean, well, I would say it was like, the way
that the beginner room was setup was kind of nice, because it
actually had tables and chairsand everything, I would say that
they probably had them set upfor anywhere, probably 50 to 75
people to sit comfortably inthose rooms. And then I think
for my talk specifically, theremight have been around 30 ish, I

(10:57):
would guess.

Kevin (10:58):
I agree with you. I like that session size, though, like
30, that's a good size. What Idon't like is when they put you
in a room that can like see 200And then you have 30 people
Yeah, and it kind of zaps theenergy. But if you're in the
right size room for that sizecrowd, then it can feel really
good, exactly what you said.

Krystal (11:13):
I felt about 50% full like it felt like it felt like
it was just enough. And it wasagain intimate enough and small
enough and and spatial wise forthe beginner tract was great
because it was more of arectangle room or a like
rectangle as in like wide.
Whereas some of the other oneswere very long and narrow. And
it made it kind of awkwardbecause you were super far away

(11:35):
from the stage. And some peopleagain, at a podcast conference
didn't know how to use theirmicrophone, which is really
funny, because you could tellwhich ones were podcasters and
which ones weren't. Because youcould hear people screaming from
the back, like put the mic toyour mouth. Come on, like put it
up there. But it was it wasgreat. The size of the rooms
were awesome. And the intimacyof having people tell you about

(11:57):
their podcast and ask youquestions was just I mean, it's
what I live for. And it was itmade it everything worthwhile to
go.

Jordan (12:07):
There was something in your session that you had talked
about that really resonated withme so much, and I wanted to talk
to you about it while I have youon here. But you chatted about
how stumbling is necessary. AndI personally struggle with like
an intense fear of failure or afear of like judgment from
others. And so stumbling is notsomething I want to do ever. I

(12:31):
think that your talk actuallyhelped me a lot. And yeah, so I
just want to talk with you alittle bit about your points on
that.

Krystal (12:37):
Yeah, to set up the story a little bit, I shared a
little bit about how it's reallycool to share the highlight
reel, right, you're all the coolthings. I've spoken on stages.
I've done this, I've done that.
And that's the Instagramhighlights that everybody sees,
you know, everything that's onyour feed. And people are like,
Oh, you're so successful, oryou're so this or that. And I

(12:58):
love sharing the messy places ofmy story. Because that's when
people really relate to you andsay, Oh, you've messed up to
like, you're not perfect,because a lot of people,
especially podcasters, andcontent creators in general,
think that so many of us justwoke up one day, turn on a
camera, put a microphone in ourhand, and we're like, oh, I'm a

(13:20):
YouTuber, I'm a podcaster. And Inever make mistakes. And I'm
like, oh, no, actually, I'vemade all the mistakes, which is
why I can stand here today andtell you what not to do. And so
I shared about, you know, beinga stay at home mom for several
years. And I was like, I don'tIs this do I need to just do
this with my life forever andever. And then I started

(13:42):
writing, I started blogging, Idid that really, really badly. I
always tell people, I was aterrible blogger. And then my
blogging mentor started apodcast and I was like, Oh, well
she can do this, then I can dothis. And so that's the
stumbling phases of me gettinginto podcasting, and then
eventually figuring out like,Oh, I really love this. Like, I

(14:04):
don't just love creating thepodcast, but I love helping
other people make it easierbecause I can explain things
that aren't technical or thataren't super complicated. And so
if I hadn't have started at thatpoint in my journey, I wouldn't
have stumbled into podcasting,which is eventually what I did.
So you know, for anybody that'slistening right now, if you're

(14:25):
in this awkward stage of I don'treally know what I'm doing. I
just launched a podcast. I'mjust getting started. I'm trying
to figure this out, like kind ofsit in that awkwardness until
you can push through it becauseJordans had it Kevin's had it
like we've all had it. And youdon't have to have all the
answers all the puzzle pieceslike out on the table fit

(14:48):
together perfectly. To get tothat next step. Maybe figuring
something out is what you know,who knows, maybe that's how they
ended up with chat. GBT. Yes Nofumbling around with stuff. And
they're like, Oh, hey, look, wegot this thing to spit some cool
stuff back out at us, you know.
So you just got to keep going.

Jordan (15:08):
Yeah, it's like a macro version of trust the process,
for sure. And when you're aperfectionist, it's really hard
to do that.

Krystal (15:16):
Yes.

Kevin (15:17):
There is this gift that we all have when we first start
out in whatever creativeendeavor, you're starting out.
You don't have an audience yet,right. And so in the podcasting
world, not only do you not havean audience at the beginning,
but you might not have anaudience for a long time, it's
really hard to grow youraudience on podcasting. But in
podcasting, but instead of likelooking at that as a negative,
like I'm doing all this work,and not a lot of people are

(15:38):
listening yet, like the otherside of the coin on that is that
you have this time to hone yourcraft to get really good. And
while you're getting good, thepeople who are following you
along while there might not bemany, they're cheering you on.
And they're they're becomingthese, like super fans of you.
So like when you get really big,like everyone wants to be the
first fan of whatever bands likethere's a huge band, they're
super popular. You're like, oh,well, I listened to them back in

(15:59):
the 80s. Right? Everyone wantsto be that person. Yeah. And so
people want to be like that forpodcasters, too. So they're
cheering you on, they want to beyour earliest fan. And they it's
so great for them to be a partof that journey to listen to you
in the beginning and listen toyou stumble, and listen, you
stutter and feel awkward andfind yourself and find your
voice and build your confidence.
And then years down the road,when you have a larger audience
or, you know, someone's lookingfor new podcasts. And they can

(16:20):
recommend you, they can say, Oh,I've been listening them for
years, and they've been on thisgreat journey. It takes a lot of
confidence. And for sure, likepodcasters talk all the time
about this imposter syndromethat we all experience to some
degree. But like I think what Ihear you saying and it's very
encouraging to me, and hopefullyanybody who's listening, this is
like, instead of looking at itas I have to perform, I have to
be perfect, like look at it asthe gift of I don't have to yet

(16:43):
like this is an opportunity forme to figure it out and to get
better. And the few people thatare listening, they understand
that I'm not great. And maybethat's what they like about me.
And so like push into that stepinto that, and you'll get better
over time, but you got to stickwith it. You got to keep
plugging away. You got to keepshowing up every week and you
got to keep doing it because theonly way you're gonna get better
is by keep doing it.

Krystal (17:04):
Yeah. And I want to circle back around to bands are
being fans from the beginning.
Because Lance Bass from NSYNCwas there. We were fangirling.
Totally.

Jordan (17:16):
I literally got to the keynote stage 20 minutes before
that, and I got a front rowseat.

Krystal (17:24):
So awesome. I saw her up there with her phone. She was
like snapping pictures, takevideos. I was like I love it.

Jordan (17:29):
I did! I got a lot of videos and I have my phone like
in front of my face like this.
And I know at one point likeLance locked eyes with me, and I
know he saw me like with myphone up in front of my face.

Krystal (17:44):
He's great. And he hasn't aged a bit for anybody
wondering he hasn't aged a bit.

Jordan (17:48):
Yeah, he looks great.

Kevin (17:49):
What is Lance doing now?
Is he is he in podcasting.

Jordan (17:52):
He's like a cosmonaut.
And he's no, yeah, he's got apodcast.

Krystal (17:58):
I just remember Guncle and I thought that was the
funniest term ever.

Jordan (18:01):
So yeah, he's really big on TikTok, which is Yeah, Guncle
Lance. So, gay uncle.

Krystal (18:09):
Your gay uncle Lance.
That was the best term. I'dnever heard that before. Like,
oh, my gosh, this is great.

Jordan (18:16):
That was actually really great session. Yeah.

Krystal (18:18):
So he is and I don't remember the name of their
organization, but it was for theLBGTQ community and what they do
over on iHeart. So I know thatthat was the thing that they
were talking about on the mainstage was the inclusivity and
like DEI, for just that. I'mtrying to think of what their

(18:39):
organization was called. But itwas it was really interesting to
hear about just having morediverse voices and podcasting,
so it was a good session.

Kevin (18:52):
Okay, so also, at Podcast Movement evolutions, James
Cridland from Podnews, got upand did a session and he went
through his podnews report card.
Did you guys attend the session?

Jordan (19:02):
It was great. It was really interesting. And he
started the report card out withsome context of information he
had gotten from pod track. Andthis is going to sound a little
bit stat heavy, but like, bearwith me, because I know and this
slide came up, I audibly gasped,I was like, This is so cool. So

(19:23):
the first slide was about theaudience of the platforms. And
you know, their share of a fullaudience because they have done
this over 2 billion globaldownloads in January of 2023. So
in January, a third of all USpodcast listeners, were using
Spotify as a platform. Buthere's the kicker, this is where

(19:44):
things get interesting. Thetotal share of downloads, Apple
podcasts had 70% of the share ofdownloads, even though they only
were a quarter of the platformusage, which is crazy.

Krystal (19:56):
So when he put these up, like it literally took my
brain a second to be like, Wait,this makes zero sense to me.
Like, I don't understand what'shappening. Because I'm one,
you're saying that you know, athird of all podcast listeners
on Spotify. But then you go tothe next slide. And it's 70% of
all downloads are coming fromApple. And so I just I found

(20:20):
this to be so interesting. Well,first of all, I don't use either
app for my podcast. Anyway. Soyou don't know. I don't use
either. What do you use? So Iuse good pods, like I'm a tried
and true, like, I love good podsso much. It's the app that I
always use. So hopefully, it'llbe on the list one day, it's not
even on here. It's not it's inthe other category at this

(20:41):
point. But I just thought it wasso interesting, because I was
thinking, well, are people justreally listening to episodes?
Like, I mean, how is it such astark difference from the amount
of listeners to the amount ofdownloads? I don't know, what
are what are your thoughts?

Kevin (21:00):
Right? So I have a theory, but I'm wondering, did
James, did James present his owntheory on this?

Jordan (21:04):
I don't recall that he did.

Krystal (21:06):
I think that he went into it. But again, this was
like, there were like, 1000s ofcharts and this presentation. So
we want to we want to know yourtheory. Kevin, What's your
theory?

Kevin (21:18):
All right. So my theory is these apps work very
differently. Apple podcast isset up as like a download app.
So when you follow a show, evenif you don't listen to the most
recent episode, that it'sdownloaded, it has it queued up
in the background for you,right. And so it's downloading
on a regular schedule, whetheryou're listening or not. And as
long as you have some level ofinteractivity with the
particular podcasts that you'refollowing, it will continue to

(21:41):
download. And so I think, Ithink it's like, until I think
by default, until it has likethree episodes that you haven't
listened to at all yet, it willjust keep downloading. So as
long as you're listening to likeone out of every three episodes
that drop for a podcast feed,it'll keep downloading them.
Spotify is very different. Ithink, again, by default, I'm
not sure if you can get in andconfigure it to work

(22:01):
differently. But out of the box,I think it won't download
anything, like you'll followshows, and it will just have
queued up so you can tap them tolisten. But it won't actually
download anything until you tapto listen to the episode. And so
I wonder if that's where thehuge discrepancy comes in.

Jordan (22:16):
Yeah, I think you're right. And also, I'm remembering
that Apple podcasts, I think itwas last year rolled out the
autoplay feature, where it justlike, will queue up the next
podcast episode, and it willauto play at the back end of the
episode that you just finishedlistening to. And similarly,
Spotify actually just launchedthat same feature where they are

(22:40):
queuing up for auto play. So I'mwondering if next year, we're
probably going to see Spotifytaking up a bigger share of the
downloads if they startautomatically playing other
podcast episodes. Another slidethat came up that I thought was
really interesting is audienceshare for these platforms. One
that really stuck out to me isthat Amazon Music has jumped up

(23:02):
126% James said that he wasthinking it was because of them
rolling out the ad free versionsof like wondery, podcasts,
things like that. I forget whatthe brands are. But if you have
Amazon Prime, then you getaccess to ad free versions of
podcasts. And so that could havehelped their share of audience.

Krystal (23:24):
And I have to say like I don't like just existing in
the podcast sphere, if you wantto call it that. I don't hear a
lot about Amazon or wondery. ButI heard so much like there were
they were very, very present atPodcast Movement evolutions. I
don't know if it was because theproximity to La it seems to be

(23:45):
where most everybody was comingfrom, from one dri. But there
were so many people there. So Ifeel like I mean, they're
showing up like they weredefinitely there to talk about
all the different things. Ididn't see anybody from Apple,
Spotify, there were some peoplefrom I heart. And I want to say,

(24:05):
Stitcher baby. I don't know ifthere were or not. But I mean,
there was definitely if you lookat all the players that are
here, they definitely showed upto like have some skin in the
game at Podcast Movementevolutions, for sure. So I'm
curious to see what that lookslike in the future.

Kevin (24:24):
Yeah, it seems like out of all of these players. Now, I
don't want to take anything awayfrom Apple, because you guys
know I'm really coming around towhat Apple is doing in their
podcasting app. But it does seemlike Spotify is out of these
companies that we're talkingabout. So Apple, Spotify,
Google, Amazon, like Spotify isthe one that is most
aggressively trying to improvetheir listening experience like
in their app, right. And it'snot an easy task for them

(24:47):
because they also have tobalance music, but it seems like
that's kind of how they gottheir foothold in the world was
that they had really kind of thebest music listening experience
in an app. Like anybody who usesSpotify will tell you the
curation of their music, theirsuggested playlists that they do
and all that stuff. That's whatsets them apart from everyone
else. And so it seems like maybethat's just part of the DNA of

(25:08):
that company is that they reallywant to create these amazing
listening experiences. And sowhen they started off in
podcasting, it's been easy tocriticize them and say like,
it's not that great compared towhat others have been doing. But
their approach seems to be, hey,we don't have to knock it out of
the park day one, but we aregoing to continually improve and
iterate and make this better andbetter and better. And they're
doing a lot like we're going totalk about some of the new stuff

(25:29):
that are introducing, you know,in a second, but their app is
continually getting better. Now,I don't use the app very often,
but I am constantly checking itlike two or three times a year,
because they're making these bigannouncements of all these
things that are doing to improvethe listening experience.

Jordan (25:42):
That's kind of the thing is like, you know, moving on to
the actual Podnews Report Card,where James surveyed a whole
bunch of podcasters andlisteners, that's totally
reflected in the results fromthis with as far as like the
overall like experience with theapps, the insights of the apps
provided, how the creators feelthe apps are working for them,

(26:04):
too. You can see it reflected inthis year's survey results that
Apple and Spotify are scoring alot higher than they did the
previous year. It's definitelyknown throughout the community
that they're making really bigimprovements.

Kevin (26:20):
Yeah, to contrast that we're not seeing that same level
of improvement with Amazon,Google. I mean, we'll see what
YouTube is doing. But YouTubeseems like they're just kind of
like trying to figure out how tofit podcasting into their video
first solution. So I don't knowthat we're gonna see a lot of
adoption there. Now, it's notthat doesn't mean that's totally
bad. Because anytime one ofthese new platforms that has a

(26:42):
large user base already comesonto the scene, it introduces a
whole new level, or a whole newworld to podcasting. Right. So
there are people who probablyjust live in YouTube and use it
a lot, who don't venture out anddiscover podcasts today. So as
podcasts, enter the YouTubeecosystem, new people are gonna
find out about podcasts. And Ithink the same thing probably
happened with Amazon music.
There's a lot of people who useAmazon music, and they
introduced podcasts, and theygot introduced to podcasting

(27:03):
through that. But if you reallywant to get people to move from
one app to another, like if youwant somebody to stop using
Apple podcasts as your primarylistening app and jump over to
Spotify, or jump over to anAmazon music, then you really
have to provide a compellingreason for them to do that. And
Spotify strategy seems to be, wewant to create really good
experiences for people who werelistening in our app. And it

(27:25):
seems to be working for them.
And again, not to say thatApple's not improving because
they are their app is gettingreally good. But I just don't
see that same thing happening.
And Google podcasts is doingnothing. I don't really know
that Amazon podcast has changedmuch since launch. And they've
been out for a while now.

Krystal (27:40):
You brought up YouTube.
And I have to say that videopodcast is one of the things
that people kept talking about.
And it's funny because I think Iwent to almost every session
about video podcast, and thedefinition of each one was
different, every single session.
So I'm curious, Kevin, if youhad to describe a video podcast,
what would that look like?

Kevin (28:02):
Oh, boy, I would want to understand, like who's asking
the question, so I could speakto them in a way that aligns
with what they're thinking,like, I'm not really big on-

Krystal (28:10):
I'm a brand new podcaster. I've never created an
audio podcast or video content,like, I just want to know,
should I do a video podcast?
What would you say to them?

Kevin (28:21):
I would say no, I would say no, I wouldn't suggest that
you do a video podcast. So likea true video podcast would be a
video file that is has anassociated RSS feed, right. And
you can do that. You can't dothat on Buzzsprout. But there
are ways to do it. It's just notvery popular, because, well,
there's a whole lot of work thatgoes into creating video, first
and foremost, hosting thatyourself or on somebody like

(28:43):
Buzzsprout, like Libsyn orsomething, it can get expensive,
because the files are big. Andso when you're, you're doing
paid podcast hosting, you'regoing to be paying for all that
bandwidth and storage. And sothe easier solution to lower
barrier to entry solution tothat has been YouTube. And
YouTube has come along and said,Oh, you can host here for free.
And we have millions andmillions of people who are on
our platform looking for videocontent, we've got a really
great recommendation engine. Soif you do something that's

(29:05):
compelling, we'll try to serveit up to people who might like
that kind of stuff, and we'llhelp you grow. And so they've
dominated that space. Now,that's not video podcasting,
technically. But it pretty muchhas become that because YouTube,
like owns the online videospace. And so I would always say
like, if you really want to getinto video podcasting, even
though YouTube technically,isn't it, it's a fine solution
for it. Now, that being said, wewill see if Spotify has the

(29:30):
ability to change that. SoSpotify seems interested in
competing with YouTube foronline video stuff, which nobody
has challenged YouTube in thevideo space for years and years
and years. So let's see ifSpotify can actually pull
something off here and open upthe video space a little bit.
Their initial entry into thespace was just like for Joe
Rogan and a few other selectshows. Since then, they've said

(29:52):
okay, now anybody can push videointo Spotify, but you have to
use our publishing tools to dothat. And now most recently,
they said we're going to openAdd it up so that you can push
video and even if you don't useour publishing tools, so I'll be
interested to see, I don't thinkunless you're like someone who
loves to live on the cuttingbleeding edge, I don't think
it's a space that anybody shouldjump into right now, because I
think you're gonna be doing alot of work for very little

(30:14):
audience. But over the nextcouple of years, if Spotify
proves out that they canactually serve up a reasonable
sized audience for video,podcasting, and it's open,
meaning that anybody can publishfrom any other platform, then
maybe my tune will change alittle bit. I still think for a
beginning creator who's tryingto figure out what their voices
and who their audience is, andall that kind of stuff, I still

(30:36):
think video is not a great placeto start, because the
equipment's more expensive, theediting is harder, the
requirements that you need interms of computer space and
bandwidth, and the amount ofaudience that you have available
to you who have to be activelyengaged to watch a video versus
can passively consume yourcontent, like when they're
driving a car or walking a dogworking out. It's smaller. And

(30:56):
so it's complicated. And it's along discussion. But I really
liked the idea of craterstarting and audio only true
podcasting, distributing to allthe platforms, deciding if they
want to move into video overtime, and then taking a look at
the landscape like where it is,whenever you happen to step into
video. If you were doing ittoday, I would say YouTube first
strategy, but maybe in a coupleof years from now, maybe it's
Oh, no, you actually have tohave your video in both Spotify

(31:19):
and YouTube. And maybe it alsoincludes publishing with an RSS
feed to anybody.

Krystal (31:23):
I love, like everything that you just said about video
podcast from your perspective,because I think that what a lot
of people forget is that whileYouTube is great at doing all
these things, it's taking on theburden of the files and the
storage. And it's such a luxury,and they've been doing it for so

(31:45):
long that we don't take thatinto consideration when we're
thinking about putting because Ithink about this all the time
people ask me, Well, why can't Ijust upload my podcast to my
website, I'm like, well, becauseyour website will crash.
Especially if it's a 4k video,like good luck getting anything
longer than like 15 seconds toplay on your website without the
whole thing shutting downbecause it's so heavy. And so I

(32:08):
think that the way that you'rethinking about it, in terms of
video podcasting, on YouTube, onSpotify, like whatever places,
I'm in total agreement that ifyou're just getting started,
it's not worth the hassle. Like,figure out your topic, figure
out your audience, figure outwho you really want to speak to
and your content. And then downthe road, you can add in video

(32:30):
and add in those other things.
But typically, most peoplearen't as comfortable on video
as they are behind the scenes.
Like, did you do a lot ofawkward things with your face?
Like let's be honest, likepeople do a lot of awkward
things with their face. And theyhave to sit down and like I I
learned so much about what notto do by recording myself

(32:51):
watching it and being like, Whydid I do like, I'm not even
looking at the camera? What am Ieven looking at? Or what am I
doing and so, but that came wellafter I had been podcasting for
a while. So it's too much. It'stoo heavy. To get started with
video first.

Jordan (33:11):
Speaking of Spotify, trying to compete a little bit
with YouTube, Kevin, what you'rereferencing is their new
announcements that they've madeat their stream on event last
week, they announced a fewthings, the first being that
some of the features that werepreviously only available to
anchor podcasters have now beenmade available to any podcaster

(33:31):
no matter where you host. Sothese features I'm talking about
are the q&a. That is like aquestion answer, like the
podcaster can post a question.
And then in the app, there'slike a little Reply button for
the listener to answer thatquestion. And kind of give like
a little bit of feedback, ortheir two cents to maybe talk
about on a future episode. Andthen the other feature is polls

(33:53):
where you can actually run apoll on an episode and it kind
of shows up just right on yourepisode description. You'll see
like a little widget on theSpotify app that has these. And
one of the things that kind ofstruck me was they said to kick
things off, we added a q&a toyour most recent episode, if

(34:16):
your podcast is on Spotify, andI went, Oh no. I went to my
Spotify for podcasters dashboardon the dashboard next to like
the episode audience, stuff likethat. There's a new tab called
interact. And when you click onthat, you can see the q&a and
the poll for every episode. Andso I looked and they did in

(34:40):
fact, post a question on my mostrecent episode, saying what do
you think about this episode? SoI clicked on it and I had seven
responses and my responses-

Kevin (34:57):
Let me ask you, how were the quality of those responses.

Krystal (35:02):
To be fair, we have to tell the audience, we got to
read these ahead of time, so weknow exactly what they are.

Jordan (35:08):
Thank you for setting me up on that, because I could
barely get to this sentencewithout laughing. So the first
response that I saw just saysPoop. And the second one says
iPad, and the third one saysIDK. And this is the kind of
thing I kind of expected fromhaving a question posted on my
podcast. So I went ahead anddisabled this because they have

(35:32):
automatically enabled thesequestions to be posted for every
single episode that publishes.
So next to the little q&a on thecolumn, there's a little
settings cog, and you click thatand you're able to on toggle
that, so it doesn'tautomatically, yeah, you can
turn it off. And it doesn'tautomatically update your
episodes anymore with thesequestions. So you can delete

(35:54):
them, you can change thequestions to be something else,
you can add the polls from here.
And so yeah, I definitely turnedmine off. Because I don't want
any more comments from mylisteners.

Kevin (36:06):
One of the things that I saw that was nice was that while
they did give everyone aquestion by default without
necessarily asking yourpermission to do so, they didn't
publish the responses bydefault.

Jordan (36:16):
Yeah, they don't publish your responses. So you can go
into the questions, and you canselect certain responses to be
published, so that it willactually show on the episode
page.

Kevin (36:26):
So I guess this is a fine way for them to introduce
something like this. I waswondering, Kevin, what's your
opinion of this? I was trying tothink through the interview
myself again, like, what do Ithink about this, and I actually
don't have a problem with it.
It's not done in an open way.
They're not using any sort ofopen specification to be able to
do this. And so that brushes mea little bit wrong, because I

(36:47):
like the idea of openpodcasting. So like, why if
we're going to do polls, if wethink polls are good things for
podcasts, why can't we do themin a way that's open for
everybody. But that's not onSpotify, that's on the open
community. So the open communityhasn't really come up with it
and propose a solution to thatyet. And so since that we they
haven't done that we haven'tdone that, then what's wrong
with Spotify saying, well, wewant to do it. And so we're

(37:07):
gonna do it our own way? And Iguess my answer to that is,
there's nothing there's nothingwrong with them. Like I like the
idea of having some sort ofstandard spec that the whole
community builds around andsupports. And then if any
company wants to innovate, aboveand beyond that, in their own
proprietary way, no problem, godo that. And so I think that's
what they've done here. I didn'tlike before how they did it in a
way that you had to publishthrough their publishing tools

(37:29):
to use it. But now that they'reopening it up, I think it's, I
think it's great. Now the opencommunity can respond and say,
Oh, everyone's loving thesepolls and questions on Spotify,
we should come up with an openway to do that so that others in
the ecosystem can use it aswell, fine. But I don't think
Spotify is necessarily has anobligation to participate in the
open community in terms of likebringing their ideas and
innovations, their first theycan bring into their app first,

(37:49):
and then open community canrespond. So if anyone was
wondering, to answer my ownquestion, I think I'm okay with
this implementation. And I thinkI'm really okay with the way
that Spotify is trying to do ittoo. Like, maybe they blundered
a little bit by saying, Oh,we're gonna give everyone a
default question. But I couldsee their their logic and
reasoning and saying, Well, wewon't publish any of the
answers, we'll just let thepodcaster see them. And then

(38:10):
they can decide if they want topublish them or not. And so I'd
say that's totally fine. Like,maybe not maybe like Jordans,
like, I'd really didn't likethat you guys did that to my
podcasts, I know, you have alarge percentage of your
audience listening there. But atthe same time, like, I think
that kind of trying to walk thatline between, like, we want to
push new features, and we wantto show everyone how they can
work and give him an opportunityto test them instead of waiting

(38:33):
around and hoping peoplediscover them. And at the same
time, we're not going to publishtheir answers. So we kind of
give you the control.

Krystal (38:39):
Well, I think to like if you think about because I
love I love this feature. Somuch. Like I know Jordan has
mixed feelings about it. And ofcourse, there's gonna be people
that put poop on every singleepisode they ever listened to.
That's just kind of whathappens. But I love marketing,
and I specifically love marketresearch. And this is a way for
people to get that immediatefeedback, because people are

(39:01):
always asking me, How can Iunderstand you know, if my
episodes any good? And I'm like,well, first and foremost, are
you getting any downloads,number one, that's that's like
the very first, you know, thingthat you need to take into
consideration. But having thisimmediate feedback, whether it's
a star rating, or actual, likepeople giving you that like,
text based message back to youthat says, This was great, or I

(39:23):
didn't love this, or like, allof it is really just data, it's
just sometimes can be hurtful,right? Let's just throw that out
there. Like, you could get stuffthat's like, Oh, this is
terrible. I hated this and maybeeven come at you with like, very
specific reasons why they don'tlike it and you're like, okay,
like, we're gonna delete this,like, no one's ever gonna see
that. But I love the idea ofhaving that feedback, but also

(39:48):
having the option on what youwant to publish what you want to
put on your show. And it kind ofhelps you build that character
around what you want yourpodcast to represent. And it
could be Hang on this. So if youall have the information or the
data, but I think that Spotifyskews younger, and people that
have grown up or have had Amazonaround their entire adult lives

(40:11):
in their consuming behaviorhabits, like everybody's just
used to reviewing things like,Hey, I listen to this thing, I
bought this thing, and Ireviewed it, or people in like,
kind of the opposite end of thespectrum, they're used to
reading reviews before theydecide, is this worth my time?
So this is just another way forpeople to decide, you know,

(40:33):
episode by episode, like, oh,this was a fantastic one, I can
see from all these comments, Ishould go ahead. Like it's worth
30 minutes of my time or an hourof my time, however long it is.
So I'm all for it. I just Ithink that there's a way that
you can do it to be inclusivewith the Creator on what they
want to have on their show.

Jordan (40:52):
You know, it's interesting, because in the last
episode, we actually had talkedabout how lonely podcasting can
feel. It can just feel likeyou're talking into a void
sometimes. And so I actuallythink that this is a really good
fix for that having this sort oflike interactivity in app, it's
really easy for people to use.
It's just like, right there. AndI think like a good use case for

(41:14):
this for a podcast like minewould not be so much like, what
did you think? Because like, Iactually don't really care
personally what people think.
But what I do care about is whatdo you want to hear in the
future? Do you have storysuggestions? Do you have tips
for something? Like what's a bigpet peeve that you have, and

(41:36):
we'll share it on the nextepisode? Like this is definitely
a tool that can be used forsomething like that, I think.

Kevin (41:42):
Yeah. And maybe the polls would work better for a podcast
like yours, where you couldselect maybe four or five
stories that you're thinkingabout doing upcoming and then
let them choose instead of like,open ended questions where they
can write things that are justcompletely random.

Jordan (41:55):
Yeah, yeah. And I definitely use polls all the
time. On my podcast, I'll runthem on Instagram, or on my
Patreon, or something like that.
And so this is another placewhere I can do that and say,
like, hey, like for our bigspring episode, what do you
want? Yeah, that's definitelyway to do it in a controlled
environment.

Krystal (42:12):
I was gonna say, I'm gonna go check my podcast out
after this and be like, Oh, do Ihave any poop comments on mine
or other other colorful thingsthat people have said?

Kevin (42:22):
Well, I will say that we think, this hasn't been
confirmed, but we think thatthis is only available for
people who have claimed theirpodcast on Spotify. So we have a
couple of different shows, someare claimed on Spotify, and some
aren't. And as far as we cantell, like the questions, the
default questions that they pushfor everyone's podcasts, we're
only showing up on podcasts thatwe know that there's like a
claimed Spotify account behindit. And so if you're looking at

(42:45):
your podcast, and Spotify andyou don't see that question,
that's maybe because you haven'tset up your Spotify account and
linked your podcast to it yet.
So you can do that. And then youcan check out polls and
questions and see a little bitmore insights into activity like
demographics and stuff thatpeople who are listening to your
podcasts on Spotify, so it'sworth doing.

Jordan (43:01):
So a couple of the other things that they announced
Spotify said to stay tuned foran update on the video
podcasting, so I don't, I don'tthink that they have rolled out
video podcasting for podcastsnot hosted on their platform,
but I think that it might be inthe works down the line. In
addition to that they have a newpodcast feed. And what this is,

(43:22):
is on the homepage of the app,if you click the little podcasts
and shows they have what theycall a machine learning selected
clip playing for podcasts thatthey think that you might be
interested in. It's

Kevin (43:36):
This is just them putting a bunch of buzzwords around
listen, you ripped off theTikTok UI, it's TikTok for
podcasts, or TikTok for music.
That's all it is. Yeah, they gotto put like It's like blockchain
machine learning AI VirtualReality scroll. TikTok.

Jordan (43:52):
I think they were trying to avoid the term AI because
it's being used so heavily rightnow. So I but I think the
machine learning aspect of it isactually more geared toward what
clips they choose, because theysaid that it selects clips that
you would find the mostinteresting from the podcast. So
I don't know if it's like goingthrough it. I think they might

(44:15):
be transcribing the episodesthough, because my podcast, I do
not have it transcribed. And Inoticed that it was actually
playing the transcription whilemy audiogram was playing. But
yeah, it's very much likeTikTok. It actually reminds me a
little bit more of Instagram. Solike you scroll up and there's
just like a block of a podcastand it has the cover art and it

(44:36):
has like an audio Graham playingand you have the ability to
follow that podcast right there.
When the clips done playing, youcan click to continue listening
to it. And they also have videosshowing up. So if you have a
video podcast on Spotify, thenyou can also have a clip of the
video playing. It's really funnythough, because they said that

(44:56):
there are seven The 1000 videopodcasts on Spotify. And I
scrolled for so long yesterdayand I did not get a single video
podcast pulling up on that feed.

Kevin (45:09):
Yeah, I had a similar experience. I did see one video
podcast, but it was Joe Rogannow and we all know he's been
doing video on Spotify forever,like since he came over. So that
wasn't shocker.

Krystal (45:20):
I'm scrolling so long, and I don't see anything. I told
them. I was like, Okay, let melet me see if I get this feature
on here. I updated my app. Idon't have a premium account.
That's why I was like, well,maybe I don't have it. No, I
just maybe only like people haveor maybe I'm the only person in
the world that doesn't have it.
I don't know. But it's notworking for me, so I can't even
see it and test it.

Kevin (45:39):
I was surprised, I didn't know how to find it. Jordan
walked me through how to findit. And then once I did what she
said it did work for me. So itwas go to your home screen. And
then you have to, have at thetop, I think it's called
podcasts and shows ,which Imight be the only person in the
world. He found that interestingthat it's podcasts and shows
instead of just podcast. But itwas almost like a nod to me, I

(46:00):
took that as a personal nod toKevin, thank you that they
recognize that all of thecontent they have in there is
not a podcast that they're like,technically, it's not a podcast.
But you know, like the Joe Roganshow is not a podcast right now
it's a show. So I reallyappreciate it that Spotify is
trying to win me over.

Jordan (46:14):
Is it working?

Krystal (46:16):
They're trying. It's a slow burn.

Kevin (46:19):
Maybe I will say this, I've been a fan of anybody who
tries to introduce podcasts tomore people. And like I like
anytime an app comes out andsays hey, we're gonna try to get
more podcasters discovered,like, I think this is great. I
don't necessarily think thatthere's a huge discoverability
problem in podcasting. But if ifsomebody wants to take on

(46:39):
marketing on behalf ofpodcasters, like I'm in your
corner cheering you on. And so Ireally like that they're
exploring these ideas. What Iwould really like to do though,
is I would like for this just toauto scroll for me. So this
feels like we've been talkingabout very much like Instagram
stories or rails, they call themor tick tock experience where I
have to sit there and look at myphone and scroll these things.

(47:01):
So every minute, you know, theclip I'm watching is over. And
then I've got to swipe up to seethe next one, I want to just
turn this thing on and put it inmy pocket, or just drive my car.
And I'm just basically it's likeputting your, you know, your old
school car stereo into scanmode, you know, where it's
scanning stations for a songthat you'd like. And then as
soon as you hear a song you'dlike you'd like hit the button,
it stops and you'd listen thatsong. I want to put Spotify in

(47:22):
scan mode for podcasts whereit's just scanning through
podcasts, and then all of asudden I hear something that's
interesting, then I'll pull myphone out of my pocket, tap a
button and listen that wholeepisode. What do you guys think?
Good idea? Bad idea?

Jordan (47:33):
Yeah, I think that's a great idea.

Krystal (47:34):
I keep thinking about what you said with you know,
discoverability and havingmarketing tools for podcasters.
I think that anything that canhelp people have their shows
discovered organically withouthaving a PhD in SEO and
keywords. And you know, titlingthings sit like such a specific
way that it loses all kind ofmeat of the episode, you're

(47:57):
like, What am I I don't evenknow what I'm listening to.
Because somebody's just keywordstuffed all these things that
they learned from a video theywatched from 10 years ago,
that's not even relevantanymore, then I'm, like I'm all
about it. I'm all about thetools that help podcasters just
make it easier, because that isthe number one thing that I hear
from people is it's so awkwardto talk about my show, it feels

(48:17):
braggy or it feels like I'm justtalking about myself. And so
helping podcasters feel morecomfortable saying, Hey, you
could just go to your Spotifyapp, and you know, start liking
podcasts that are similar tothis category. And you know, I
hope that my podcast shows up.
But you'll also find other showsthat are out there that we would
also be interested in.

Kevin (48:40):
That's good. There is this tag in the podcast
namespace called soundbite. Andthere are a lot of apps that
have kind of built a real a lotof really great features around
the sound bite tag. It would belike doing backflips if Spotify
is like, hey, we develop thisnew feature, this new scrolling
thing that's similar to ticktock but totally different than
tick tock, right. And itintroduces podcasts to people.
And that's a great thing forpodcasters. I would love it if

(49:02):
they would look in your RSS feedand say, Oh, if there's a
soundbite tag associated with anepisode, then that's what we'll
use as kind of your highlightfor your podcast. Because then
it gives the podcaster somelevel of control of, hey, if
you're going to play a clip fromthis episode for somebody, and
it's only going to be 30 secondsor a minute, here's what the one
that I would suggest you usethat I would like you to use as
the creator. And then if there'snot that that tag doesn't exist

(49:25):
Spotify, use your machine AI todo whatever you want. Pick
whichever one you think is best.
But if that tag is present, likewhy not let the podcast creator
have some control over this a 45minute episode, if you're only
going to play somebody 30seconds of it, you're only going
to pay 45 seconds of it. This iswhat I would suggest you use or
I would prefer you use than whynot use that tag.

Krystal (49:44):
And I've already created so many in Buzzsprout
that you can just go in and grabthem. They're already- they live
in there already. Like please gograb them and just take them
with your API and show them towhoever you want to because I've
already taken the time to createthe thing and put it there.

Kevin (50:01):
Right you've already gone through your episode and tagged
like this episode at thistimestamp for 45 seconds or 30
seconds is the highlight reelfor the episode and like we
think about these things ascreators right like it's like I
want to tease the episode but Idon't want to like give it away
like I don't want to. Oh thisit's a comedy podcast and you
like totally botched my joke oryou just came in with my best
joke, like I want to give ateaser joke not the best one,

(50:23):
whatever. But that should be incontrol the creator, not
necessarily some machine that issmart at Spotify smart was an
air quotes there.
Jordan I was listening to thePodnews Weekly Review and they
do Boostagram Corner.

Jordan (50:41):
Uh huh.

Kevin (50:41):
I was wondering what was going through your head while
they played that booster Grahamcorner intro? Were you thinking,
You guys don't know this, butyour audience hates it?

Jordan (50:53):
No, I wasn't thinking that. It was really funny
though, because one of theBoostagrams that they got that
they asked me to read was fromGenebean and I was like, Oh, I
know this guy. So it felt very,I felt very at home, really.

Krystal (51:10):
Very comfortable.

Kevin (51:12):
Okay, first boost this week comes from Dave Jones. He
said Uga an example of theamazing creativity of the
University of Georgia fans. Andyou know what I'm I'm a gator
fan myself. And we kind of havea bit of a rivalry with Georgia.
So I will receive that commentas complete sarcasm. Personally,
Georgia fans are not creative atall. And I'll get is a silly
name for a mascot. I totallyagree. And Alban is not here to

(51:35):
defend it. So we're gonna gowith that. Thanks, Dave. Go
Gators! Gator Nation.

Jordan (51:38):
All right, we have at Mere Mortals Podcast. Been a
while since I heard an update ofwhat you're working on in terms
of P 2.0 tags. Is there any LITor value tags coming? Please and
thank you. Kevin?

Krystal (51:54):
I'll just say I don't know anything about that.

Kevin (51:58):
So value tags you can do today on the podcast level, you
can't do them on an individualepisode level or splits. But if
you don't have now, like if youdon't know, if your podcast is
on Buzzsprout, and you don'thave value for value enabled,
and you want it, you just dropan email to our support team.
And they will walk you throughthat process. We don't have a UI
for it, but is fully supportedat the episode level and splits.
It's something that we continueto discuss and figure out if

(52:19):
that's something that enoughpeople need for us to actually
build a UI around or how we'regoing to support it. And LIT is
in that same boat. It's morelike we love the technology. But
we have to prioritize and buildthings that a lot of people are
going to use. And so like justthis week, like we're rolling
out the text tag, which isn'tsuper exciting, but it's another
Podcasting 2.0 tag that we'rerolling out or podcast namespace
tag that we're rolling out. Soit stuff's always on our

(52:42):
priority list. And it's justkind of us shuffling around what
the majority of people areasking for and looking for. So I
love it. Like it's cool, andit's fun. But there are so few
podcasters out there that canactually take advantage of it.
So if you don't know what it is,it sounds for live item tag. And
it's like if you want to do alive podcast. And so why would
you ever want to do a livepodcast? Well, it gives you an
opportunity to interact withlive audience. So if you have

(53:03):
like a chat room going, or Idon't know how well it's maybe
some you figure out some way forpeople to like hop into your
Skype call your zoom call orwhatever. And you can interact-

Krystal (53:12):
It's like Clubhouse, like that's what I keep
thinking.

Kevin (53:14):
Yeah, like a Clubhouse kind of thing. Right. So you
could do live podcast, thereason to do it would be to
interact with your audience. Andso I keep coming back to if
we're going to support the liveitem tag. How can we do in such
a way that we also give peoplethe tools to be able to interact
live with their audience. And sothat's where our thinking is on
that. But yeah, we're staying upto date and always looking at
all the new innovations that arehappening around the podcast

(53:35):
namespace.

Jordan (53:36):
And then Krystal, do you want to read Genebean's since I
got to read Genebean's onPodnews Live?

Krystal (53:41):
Yes. Okay. So Genebean says, I was really glad to hear
y'all say that you areinvestigating how to facilitate
getting our episodes intoYouTube. I don't have the time
or energy right now to make avideo version of volunteer
technologist. But I'm interestedin expanding my reach to the
audience. The hesitations I haveare pretty much what you all

(54:02):
said, stats would only be there.
It's us only and only in YouTubemusic. Oh my gosh, I have so
many thoughts on this too. Soyou know, we're talking about
video podcasts and what thatlooks like and what that really
is. And when I think back to allthe different experiences I've
had, because I create on audioonly for a podcast, and YouTube

(54:24):
video only. And mine have neverbeen the same. It's never been
having video and then strippingthe audio. And that's my
podcast. I've never done thatfrom the beginning. But I think
that having your content in someway on YouTube, even if it's
just YouTube shorts, couldactually be a great way for you

(54:44):
to get discovered by anotheraudience on YouTube and it would
be less work than having all theediting done for videos or
making sure everything looksgreat or doing something in
Canva or putting B roll on likethere's just like Kevin said
earlier, there's a lot ofcomplexities that come into
video. And because it's notsomething that is, you know,

(55:04):
supported by every singlepodcasting app, whether it's
your host site, or it's theactual app that you're playing
in, we're just we're not thereyet. But I do think that having
a presence on YouTube is a wayfor you to gain organic traffic
and have someone discover yourpodcast, and then have them move
over to a podcast player thatthey already know and love, like

(55:28):
Apple, Spotify, or whereverthey're listening.

Kevin (55:33):
Yeah, I totally agree.
And I think YouTube is great forexactly what you said. But I
would also say like other socialchannels can also work in that
same way. So if you happen to bea big fan of YouTube, and you
engage with it there and youlike, then maybe that's the
place for you. But if that placefor you is tick tock or
Instagram or Facebook or Twitteror Mastodon, or whatever, like
any of those channels, can youcan invest in them the same way

(55:53):
the pitfall might be likespreading yourself too thin and
trying to do all of them. And soif you love YouTube, and you
love Instagram, like go forthose two, or if you're only in
one, just like go for one, butdon't try to be everywhere, at
least initially. Like that's toomuch for any one person.

Jordan (56:08):
We also have a tweet from Sarah Rossett. She said, I
agree podcasting can feellonely. But I think it's
probably similar to the world ofbooks where readers of different
genres have different behaviors.
So she said that the best wayswe found to connect with our
podcast audience are throughsurveys, meetups for meals or
drinks at writing conferencesannounced on the podcast before
the event and Buzzsproutsubscriptions. I totally agree

(56:31):
with this, Sara, these areabsolutely the best ways that
I've also found to connect withthe audience, especially like I
preach surveys all the time. Ilove surveys so much. But
meetups are such a huge deal toespecially if you live in a big
city where maybe your listenersare close by you can do that.

Krystal (56:51):
Yeah, it's so powerful when you get in person with
people. I mean, like I said,Jordan and I were just in person
together. And we haven't seeneach other in person for a year
and a half. And it's just it'sthere's something so special.
And to know that you share thiscollective will in our case,
it's this collective nerdinessbond about podcasting. Like we
love it so much. And we can justgeek out and talk about it. So

(57:13):
being in the presence of, youknow, people that have that
shared experience or that sharedinterest, it just gives you this
energy that you can't replicatein a digital space. So
definitely anytime you can getin person with people, it just
it makes it a lot of fun.

Kevin (57:29):
I love this idea for like niche podcasts, like a Disney
That's a great thought. Sharingthat same sentiment we have
podcast or something. Youprobably go to Disney all the
time. And a lot of people listento your podcast probably go to
Disney all the time. So maybepeople are already doing this.
But if not like Why aren't yousaying hey, when I go to Disney,
I'm going to have lunch at thisrestaurant from 12 to one, and I
would love to meet you. And likehere's what I'll be wearing. And
this is the right time toapproach me and say hi and get a

(57:49):
picture and let me talk to youabout my podcast. So you're like
inviting your audience tointeract with you that way.
There's a lot of people who dosports podcasts, I might be
going to this game and watchingthis and here's my tickets are
in this section, or I'm gonnastand outside this hotdog stand
outside the venue for an hourafter the game. And if you want
to talk, I'd love to meet youthere. Like maybe you don't live
in a big town. But maybe you goplaces where you might bump into
podcasters I do a travelpodcast, I'm doing this trip at

(58:11):
this time with my family andit's a family trip. But I'm
gonna go to this attraction andI'll be there at this time for
an hour. If you guys want toplan a trip. That's a great
place to go. And I'd love tobump into a meet you there.
Whatever like like make it yourown, figure out how it could
work for your podcast for us.
Since we talked aboutpodcasting. We always say we're
going to these conferences andif you're there we'd love to
talk with you. But it might beable to apply to lots of
different things. So just thinkabout that. Maybe you can use

(58:33):
it.
David John Clark saying reallyconnects with your thoughts on a
lack of listener engagement withpodcasts. Funny, I was out
hiking when you talked about notbeing able to interact while on
the go. I tried to remember forlater such as now to interact.
And then he said I tried to rateand review shows and individual

(58:53):
episodes via pod chaser. I likenit to the IMDB of podcasts,
which podcasts are now on IMDbtoo, much easier than logging
into individual platforms suchas Apple or Spotify. I feel
though many podcasters don't seethe pod chaser reviews yet. I
agree. I think a lot of peoplemiss that too.
Jordan might see them but shejust hates reviews. So she won't
read them.

Jordan (59:13):
Yeah. I don't see reviews.

Krystal (59:16):
I think it's, well, I think it's great when you can
have so if you're in Jordan'scase where you you don't like to
look at that, like have someonethat you love and trust and that
loves you and is supportive ofyour journey to look over those
for you and maybe pull out theones that you know would be a
confidence boost, like on a hardday. Because I mean, we've all

(59:37):
been podcasting for a long time.
We know that sometimes it justsucks like maybe you don't have
the energy to record or you'rereally you have 1000 Other
things personally going on inyour life or professionally and
you're like I just don't feellike recording today. But having
one of those that you can pullup and it's that confidence
boost that I know I need as apodcaster when somebody says
this one episode like reallyhelped me get through a hard

(01:00:00):
time or going back to, you know,after my podcast movement, talk
somebody, you know, DM me onInstagram and said Your talk was
exactly what I needed to heartoday. And that will get me
through those times when it's alittle bit harder. So I love
reviews, find someone that canread them for you. If you're
like Jordan, who doesn't want tosee him and then these are your
top three best reviews, look atthese and remind yourself,

(01:00:23):
you're on the right track.

Jordan (01:00:25):
You know, what's so funny is that I actually also
implement the review buddysystem. So my husband was always
the one that would like, look atthe reviews. And then if I had a
really good one, he'd screenshotit, send it to me, right? I
think I need to fire him becausehe slacked off a little bit on
the gatekeeping of the badreviews. So now it's like he'll
walk by the office and be like,do you see that jerk that left

(01:00:48):
you one star? I'm just like, No,no, no, no, don't tell me. He's
fired. Just completely forgotwhy he was hired for that in the
first place.

Krystal (01:00:58):
Fired. He's fired.

Jordan (01:01:01):
All right. Well, I think that's the show. So thank you
for listening and keeppodcasting.

Krystal (01:01:05):
Got my kids. I threw them outside. They're playing
basketball right now on all myonly charge to them was Don't
scream outside. Like why do wehave to repeat like Don't
scream. Why is that a thing?
They're 13, 10, and 7.

Kevin (01:01:24):
Does it work?

Krystal (01:01:24):
No, they're screaming outside. Still.

Jordan (01:01:26):
I heard a couple times while you're recording. Like,
BLAAAAH!

Krystal (01:01:29):
I was like, I need a I need a mute it then I was like
Jordan, she can work her magicediting and mute my whole track.

Kevin (01:01:38):
Any of your kids have like the friend that is the low?
Yes, yes. Yes. And you know,when this kid is coming over
your house, and you're justlike, I can take it or I can't
today. And I just my prayer isthat, like, my kid isn't the
loud kid for somebody else.

Krystal (01:01:54):
Well, how many kids do you have again, Kevin?

Kevin (01:01:56):
I have three

Krystal (01:01:56):
You have three. Okay, that's what I was saying. So I
have three, too, and there'salways one. I feel like there's
one in the bunch that I'm like,when he goes over to somebody
else's house. I'm pretty surethat he's taking all the snacks
screaming very loudly andhopefully using his manners but
not 100% sure. And so it's kindof like that gentle reminder

(01:02:17):
when they're out the door. Like,just be a decent human, please.
Thank you. Like

Jordan (01:02:23):
That's my youngest, too.
She's, before we went to PodcastMovement, I told my mom I was
like, okay, she will eat all thesnacks like you have to limit
her. She will. We just stockedup the pantry. Everything
stocked is ready to go. But donot let her eat snacks all day.
And I came back and I don't haveany chips left. So I think she
went through like three bags ofchips.

Krystal (01:02:46):
No, I've heard of people that put like those
latches at the top of theirpantry because they're the kids
can't reach it. I'm like, Oh mygosh, this is genius. This is so
smart.

Kevin (01:02:57):
Kids will get through that really quick. Don't, if you
can prevent your kids fromeating snacks by just putting a
latch up high like, there'ssomething off. Like they're
getting, they're getting snacksa different way that you don't
know about.

Krystal (01:03:11):
Go look under their bed and you're like, What is this?

Kevin (01:03:14):
They have a stockpile somewhere. Kids are, they don't
give up that easily.

Jordan (01:03:17):
Oh my gosh, I found out that my daughter's stockpile is
in my room.

Kevin (01:03:23):
She hides it in your room?

Jordan (01:03:24):
It's in my room. She's so good that she hid the food in
my room. And I didn't find ituntil later I foun, oh my gosh,
I moved I have this like rollinghamper thing. And it has like
removable bags. So I never movedthe hamper itself, which she
must have known. And so I movedit out when I was vacuuming and

(01:03:46):
I found a banana. A sucker.

Kevin (01:03:51):
Kind of random.

Jordan (01:03:53):
And the banana was like black and hard and I was just
like, how long has this beenhere? No!

Krystal (01:03:59):
Petrified banana.

Jordan (01:04:00):
Oh my gosh, I was so mad when I found this like,
disgusting banana in my bedroom.
I was just like, you've got tobe kidding me. Little turd.

Krystal (01:04:10):
Oh my gosh, that's great.

Kevin (01:04:12):
All right. Well, let me tell you. I hesitate. Because
this is another sports story.
Jordan and I apologize crystalyou're in sports at all?

Krystal (01:04:17):
It depends. Yes, maybe.
Go for it.

Kevin (01:04:21):
I don't think Jordan gets this story, because I posted it
to our like, company Basecampthing and she didn't she didn't
give me a boost. Everyone elsegive me a boost. This last
weekend, our kids had their swimmeet. They go to swim meets all
the time. Well, this was apretty big meet in the state of
Florida and Katie Ledecky, who'slike the greatest women's
swimmer of all time, I shouldn'teven say women's, she's like
she's the greatest distanceswimmer of all time doesn't

(01:04:41):
matter what your gender is.
She's amazing. She was swimmingthere. And she was swimming the
mile, which that's a normalevent for her and so everyone's
like, Oh, it's great. Like we'regonna get to see her swim. But
what we did not expect was thatshe set a new American record
for the mile which was like itreally is a world record I guess
call it American record becauseonly the US swims the mile. It's
like only a US event. But I gotto see a person swim the fastest

(01:05:04):
mile swim in the women'sdivision, like, in real time,
like watching the GOAT swim.
Amazing. Absolutely amazing. Iwas crazy, like nobody expects.
And so she jumps in, they go offand like in the first 50 She has
already like a half a bodylength the head of the next
closest person. By halfwaythrough the race. She'd already

(01:05:25):
lapped everybody. And then bylike three quarters of the way
through the race, everyone elseis slowing down. And she's going
faster. And so she's like,already lapped everybody. So
she's like more than 100 yardsahead of the next closest
person. Well, and people arewatching the times, and we're
all like she's swimming thisreally fast and like she always
seems really fast. So we're notsure like what's going to happen
and she starts coming down thatlast 25 And she's like two

(01:05:47):
seconds ahead of the worldrecord time and she touches the
wall. I'm not like as intoswimming as everyone else who's
there because it's just my kids.
Like I was never a swimmer. Butshe touches the wall the place
erupts like she's you know,she's done this seven times. Now
she's beat her time seven times.
But she's excited. Everyone'sgoing crazy. Like no one
expected the small little meetin Florida just like a regional
thing. And she set a new worldrecord. I cannot believe it.

Krystal (01:06:09):
Did they have it, like because I'm thinking of like
when you watch them on theOlympics, like Did they have the
time on their of like what therecord is, that's how I was
like, Oh my gosh.

Kevin (01:06:18):
This was just like a regular, like a bunch of high
school kids. She was swimmingnext to high school kids while
she did this. They have theseopen events where like high
school kids can swim, andcollege kids, and professionals,
to anybody who wants to get atime can just go jump in these
open events. And I guess she wasfeeling like I've been training
and I'm gonna good place andmaybe I can better my time. And
so she just jumped in and swamit and I cannot but I've never

(01:06:39):
seen something that likehistoric happen real time in
real person. Like in life, itwas amazing.

Jordan (01:06:44):
And that also would just be wild to see someone you know,
who's just like Superhuman by inswimming. Like just, I mean, I
can't even imagine how like howfast she must have been going.
That's crazy. It was crazy. Socool.

Kevin (01:06:58):
She's amazing. And then she hops out, cools down for
like five minutes and they willcool down pool and then gets out
and like takes pictures with allthe kids who were there and like
super nice to everybody. Andit's just amazing. She's an
amazing person. So whetheryou're into swimming or not like
we've got this amazing athlete,that's just like crushing it the
best of all time in women'sswimming, distance swimming, and
she represents the US and I gotto see her in person. I was

(01:07:20):
totally beyond myself. It wasamazing.

Krystal (01:07:22):
Did you get a selfie with her? Kevin, be honest.

Kevin (01:07:24):
I didn't. I stood back and let the kids get all the
pictures.

Jordan (01:07:26):
You're just like pushing them out of the way.

Krystal (01:07:28):
You're in the background. You're like, you
know, like, Hey, I'm the dad ofthe back. I got my job. Here. I
got all the dad jokes. I'll behere.

Kevin (01:07:38):
It's amazing, though. I think you experience it
differently. Like I think thekids thought it was pretty neat
and stuff but like as an adult,recognizing that you're actually
in the presence of like thegreatest person to ever do this
ever. Like it's it just hits alittle differently. Like yeah,
that's awesome.