The Next Generation Of Podcast Editors

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In this episode, the hosts play a game of Listen, Subscribe, Delete, test out Adobe's new Podcast Beta, and discuss a recent example of why the rss namespace is so important to the podcast industry.

View this episode's DISCUSSION THREAD on Twitter!

APPLE PODCASTS HOST & GUEST IMAGES
For more information, check out the Guest & Host Image Support Page
Features like this could be easily implemented using the podcast namespace, Buzzsprout already has the host images ready for the platforms!

ADOBE PODCAST BETA
Test out Adobe's new AI-powered software, Adobe Podcast, currently free while in beta!

HINDENBURG PRO 2
Hindenburg PRO 2 beta was announced, with updates like a transcription engine, manuscript window, and search function.

FATHOM
Fathom.fm is a podcast player that makes discovering new podcasts easier with AI-powered search, transcription, clipping, and more!

Alban (37%), Jordan (32%), Kevin (31%), Josh (<1%) 

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Episode Transcript

Alban (00:00):
John and I always love doing these, like, questions. We
have a few we go to like, whatconspiracy theory do you think
is most likely to be true? Thatalways gets good answers. You
can only drink three differentdrinks for the rest of your
life, what are they? And peoplethink that's not very hard until
they realize like no moreYoo-hoo. They're just like, No

(00:20):
more YooHoo! I was like, that'seasy! Get rid of the Yoo-hoo.

Kevin (00:24):
What if somebody was like, Yoo-hoo, Sunny D, and
McDonald's orange drink. I'mgoing with those three.

Alban (00:30):
I swear, Kevin. We had one friend, there was no water
in her answer. We're like, Oh.

Jordan (00:35):
It was me. That was me!

Alban (00:40):
I was like, this psychopath. I can't remember
exactly who it was.

Jordan (00:43):
It was me.

Kevin (00:51):
Happy Valentine's Day.

Jordan (00:52):
Happy Valentine's Day. I tried finding like Valentines
that said like, Will you be myco host? It is a special event
recording on a holiday. So Ithought we'd play a fun little
game. Listen, Subscribe, Delete.
This is a podcast version of theschoolyard game, Kiss, Marry,
Kill, which if you haven't heardof that, it's basically like a
thought experiment for childrenin which you are given like

(01:15):
three difficult decisions.

Kevin (01:18):
I don't really know this game.

Alban (01:19):
I know this game. I just love the you're like, it's a
thought experiment for childrenof which of their friends to
kill.

Kevin (01:26):
The Kill part is harsh.

Jordan (01:27):
It is harsh. I think it's basically like a metaphor
for like not having somethinglike in a very final way.

Kevin (01:34):
But I feel like it's one of the games where if my kids
were playing it, I would belike, change it. You can do
kiss, marry, and then like highfive or kick to the curb. But
you can't kill them. You can'tkill anybody.

Alban (01:43):
This is also already the watered down version of this
game.

Jordan (01:47):
It is, yeah. If you ever went to like summer camp or
anything like that, there'sdefinitely.

Kevin (01:51):
So I was not allowed to go to summer camp and I'm
figuring out why.

Alban (01:54):
All right, so you're gonna give us three of our
favorite podcasts.

Jordan (01:58):
Yeah, so I'll give you three podcasts and you have to
tell me which one you'd casuallylisten to, which you subscribe
to, and which you'd delete fromthe feed forever. You can never
listen to it again. So this isListen, Subscribe, Delete. I had
you both send me your six topfavorite podcast. This is gonna
be a podcast that has a specialplace in your heart when you

(02:20):
listen to on the reg. So Alban,you're round one. We start with
Decoder, Fresh Air, andDithering.

Alban (02:27):
Oof.

Jordan (02:28):
And Dithering, I hadn't heard of this one. Is this a new
podcast?

Alban (02:32):
It's uh, John Gruber and Ben Thompson, doing two times a
That's right, worth every penny.
week. I think they started thebeginning of COVID. But I'd read
I think the fact that I pay forone of these pretty much locks
Ben Thompson's Stratechery, Ithink since it first came out,
that in is the subscribe, right?
like maybe eight years ago, nineyears ago. And Kevin has
listened to read Gruber foryears and years. And so both of

Jordan (02:49):
That's the Dithering?

Alban (02:49):
Yeah, I think Dithering goes in subscribe. So my what
us actually, this isn't our topshows. But it's a paid podcast.
So it's premium content.
are my other two?

Jordan (03:06):
You have to listen to one and delete another one. So
you have Decoder and Fresh Air?
Which one are you going tolisten to and which one you're
going to delete?

Alban (03:14):
That is not easy. They're both interview shows. Fresh Air
is obviously Terry Gross, who'sbeen doing interviews and I feel
like I often cite her interviewstyle is one of the best. She's
interviewed everybody. So like,every time a celebrity passes
away, it's like you go and atthe top of the feed is gonna be
a rebroadcast of her talking tohim. I remember when like

(03:35):
Anthony Bourdain past, she hadlike an incredible interview
with him. So that's hard, butDecoder that is unique content.
So Nilay Patel is the editor ofThe Verge and gets like the very
best interviews of people in thetech space. I did not like this
game. This is not fun. I think Istill have to listen to Fresh

(03:58):
Air. So it's a bummer. I'm sorryto The Verge staff and Nilay in
particular. I'm gonna miss outon a lot of good tech stuff but
um, yeah, I'm not gonna give upTerry Gross.

Kevin (04:09):
I don't think he's hurting for more downloads.

Alban (04:11):
Yeah, I don't think either of these shows are. So
we've given an apology,apologizing to myself.

Kevin (04:16):
I think we should up the ante. Not only do you have to
delete but you have to likeactively try to get other people
to not listen to it.

Jordan (04:22):
A campaign against it.

Alban (04:27):
Did you see Terry Gross at Podcast Movement a few years
ago?

Kevin (04:30):
Yes. My favorite Podcast Movement talk of all time.

Alban (04:32):
Yeah, I think that was the best one that there ever
was. So I'm still subscribed toithering. And then I'll just
have to actively go and downloadFresh Air episodes. Yeah.

Kevin (04:41):
When you say listen, you have to listen like through like
a web player. Right? You can'teven

Alban (04:46):
No. You have to listen to like the worst podcast app. You
have to go download some appwe've never heard of with the
most convoluted process.

Jordan (04:53):
For Kevin you have to listen on Spotify.

Alban (04:55):
Spotify web player through IE8.

Kevin (04:58):
Yeah. And for some reason, it will not work with
Bluetooth headphones.

Jordan (05:03):
Yes, exactly. All right.
So Kevin, we have Akimbo fromSeth Godin, the Rework podcast
and Revisionist History. Whichare you going to listen to,
subscribe to, and then deleteforever?

Kevin (05:18):
Okay, I'm gonna subscribe to Revisionist History. And I'm
gonna do that because it's likelong and I get into it, and I
love it for car trips. AndMalcolm Gladwell is a genius. So
I'm subscribing to that. I'mgonna listen to Akimbo. I can do
that. I can listen on thewebplayer. They're shorter
episodes. And the reward podcastis great, but everything that

(05:39):
they've talked about is prettymuch in a bowl as well. So I'm
gonna grab all the books.

Alban (05:44):
Which you have already read.

Jordan (05:45):
That's true. Yeah.
Alright, Alban. So round two foryou. We have Conversations with
Tyler, Making Sense with SamHarris, and then
FiveThirtyEight.

Alban (05:56):
Okay, this one's much easier for me, I guess than the
previous round for sure.
Conversations with Tyler, TylerCowen and he's a economics
professor, Tyler can talk aboutanything. So there's episodes
about AI. And then there'sepisodes about technology and
episodes about business andeconomics. And then there's one

(06:16):
about Haitian art, and it's soimpressive the depth of
knowledge. So that was going tobe there. Making Sense is
probably my favorite podcast.
And so I'm locking that in as mysubscribe, and I could totally
let go of FiveThirtyEight, Ithink. I don't really care for
politics. I really like theirkind of data driven way of

(06:39):
discussing current events. Andso I find that interesting, but
I often notice that if I dolisten, I'm not like fully
engaged and so I can delete itforever and move on and probably
the less than I'm engaging withAmerican politics in general. So
conversations with Tyler's Istill listen, subscribe to

(07:01):
making sense and I've letFiveThirtyEight go.

Jordan (07:05):
All right, Kevin, round two. We have S-Town, How I Built
This, and Land of the Giants.
These are really good podcasts.

Kevin (07:13):
Okay, let me get a point of clarification. If I delete
S-Town I've already listened toit is it like wiped from my
memory?

Alban (07:20):
Anything that's associated with Serial is done.
You don't get season three ofSerial, S-Town 2, you like you
don't get those.

Jordan (07:29):
Yeah, you've broken up, like they've taken their stuff.
They packed the boxes. They'regone.

Alban (07:34):
This is such a rip off if I have to give up real shows
that continue to put out stuffand you're like, Oh, I lost the
eight part series alreadylistened to it twice.

Kevin (07:41):
So I'm going to lose Serial, S-Town, and This
If Sarah Koenig does anythingelse, you don't get to listen to
American Life.
it.
Okay, fair enough. I'll do it.
I'll part ways. S-Town's gone.

Alban (07:53):
Wow, we just raised the ante like over and over you're
like fine, don't even care.

Kevin (07:58):
I was already locked in.
I asked a clarifying questionfor no reason.

Alban (08:02):
Which of these are you subscribed to? Which are you
listening?

Kevin (08:06):
This is this is easy also. Because How I Built This
is going to, I'm going tosubscribe to that. And I'm not
subscribing the Land of theGiants. I'm just going to listen
because it's awful anyway, howtheir subscription, their follow
works. Like it always comes inwhatever podcasts that I use, it
comes in in a weird order. Yeah,I don't know what they're doing.
But I'm always having to scrollthrough that feed of episodes to

(08:26):
try to find the one I haven'tlistened to. Or the newest one.
It's not on top. It's like theyhave it listed as like a serial
podcast or something. But Ithink Overcast

Alban (08:33):
Serial, not episodic.

Kevin (08:34):
Yeah, I listen in Overcast usually to that. And it
doesn't pop into the top. Forsome reason I'm always scrolling
to the bottom of the list. It'sa difficult anyway. So it
actually probably make my lifebetter just to, like, unfollow
it, and just go to the web, plugin my headphones and listen to
it that way.

Alban (08:47):
I found some seasons of Land of the Giants to be like
really compelling. And thenothers like this dating games,
one, I think probably likehaving never used a dating app
I've dated and then married mywife since those really came
into being that it's not allthat compelling. And it's just
depressing. I like anytime Ihear about dating apps. I'm
like, Yeah, that sounds not yetat all.

Kevin (09:08):
What is interesting I'm finding about this season isn't
necessarily the tech storybehind it, which is what has
been interesting about the otherones, but this one is like the
psychology and how it's likereally kind of unhealthy for the
world over.

Jordan (09:18):
Gamification of it.

Kevin (09:20):
Yeah. And the problems that these companies are trying
to resolve not just to keeptheir apps popular, but also
like not just break society ingeneral. It's just a struggle
that they're really having.

Alban (09:30):
Wait, I don't think Jordan can get out of here. Like
you have to give us your topthree podcasts.

Jordan (09:36):
You know what? I was like, Alban's gonna call me out
because I've been mean to themand put them through the
wringer. I came prepared. Ipicked my three podcasts that I
listened to the absolute most. Iknew this was gonna come.

Alban (09:49):
Now I want honesty. These are the three so when you were
picking them you weren't goinglike, I don't know if I can get
rid of that one.

Jordan (09:57):
It was very honest. Like these are like my three most
favorite podcasts they listento. I love them so much.

Kevin (10:03):
All right, let's do it.

Jordan (10:04):
So my first one, you know this, it's Hello from the
Magic Tavern.

Alban (10:07):
Hello from the Magic Tavern.

Jordan (10:08):
Little bit of fantasy improv comedy. It's hilarious. I
love it. Next one is Potterless.
And I don't know if you've heardof that. It's a podcast about a
guy who's like in his mid 20s.
And he reads the Harry Potterbooks for the first time ever.
And it's so good because hestarts out like knowing
absolutely nothing. He makes funof the book series, because, you
know, it's a children's series.
And then by the end of hisjourney of it, like he actually

(10:31):
has like people from the movies,

Alban (10:34):
Whoa.

Jordan (10:35):
on his podcast. Yeah, he's one of like, the main Harry
Potter experts. He goes likeLeakyCon, all this stuff. Like
he's like, a huge deal now.

Alban (10:43):
LeakyCon. Leaky Cauldron?

Jordan (10:45):
Yeah, like Leaky Cauldron. LeakyCon. And so it's
a conference. Anyway. And thenmy third one is True Crime
Obsessed, which is like a comedypodcast where they watch True
Crime documentaries andbasically find the humor it.

Kevin (10:57):
My wife loves that. She keeps telling me to listen.

Jordan (10:59):
It's so funny. Your wife has good taste.

Alban (11:02):
Okay, so what's your listen?

Jordan (11:04):
This sucks because I listen to these on the daily.

Alban (11:07):
Not anymore.

Kevin (11:08):
I think we have to, whatever we do whatever we have
to commit to for the rest of2023.

Alban (11:14):
We got to I agree. I agree. We've got to do it.

Jordan (11:18):
I think my casual listen, I think it would be
Hello from the Magic Tavern.

Alban (11:24):
Ooh, is only your listen?

Jordan (11:25):
No, I changed my mind. I change my mind. It's gotta be
True Crime Obsessed.

Alban (11:28):
I think that's your I think that's your subscribe.

Jordan (11:30):
Hello from the Magic Tavern, I know is my subscribe.

Alban (11:33):
There's so many episodes

Jordan (11:35):
And then I think my listen is True Crime Obsessed.

Kevin (11:35):
Good choice.
And then I would deletePotterless.

Alban (11:41):
Potterless is gone.

Jordan (11:42):
It kind of hurts. But it's sort of for the same reason
that Kevin has were like, I'vealready listened to like all of
it. He does come out with likesome special episodes, but like
not a ton. But I mean, likeAlban said, you can't listen to-

Alban (11:55):
anything involving Harry Potter ever again.

Kevin (11:58):
Whoa, you went all Harry Potter.

Jordan (12:00):
NO! That's not what we said!

Alban (12:02):
I'm just saying, you can't- I don't like these like,
Oh, I picked one of my favoriteshows is like a limited run
series.

Jordan (12:10):
I mean, he actually makes like other really good
podcasts like Horse, thatpodcast about like basketball
that's really famous. And thenhe also does, like Meddling
Adults and Newest Olympian. Sohe has a lot of like, really,
really good podcasts. And thatwould suck because I listen to
them all.

Kevin (12:25):
Alban just, he upped the ante so high. It's like, you
don't want to make a bet withhim. Like if you did a bet where
you like, had to drink a gallonof milk like halfway if you
lost, you're drinking the milk.
And Alban would be like, And youhave to do- you could only drink
milk ever again! The rest ofyour life, and you have to drink
a gallon of it a day. Jordan,that was fun game. Thank you so
much.

Jordan (12:47):
When Apple Podcasts originally released the host
images, which are like theprofile pictures at the bottom
of the podcast show page, and itlinks to all of the shows you've
been guesting on the shows youhost things like that. Super
cool. So when they firstlaunched that, it was announced,
like this is only available toselect podcasts. And so everyone

(13:09):
went, Okay, that's just tocertain people, right. And then
I found out probably about, Idon't know, I want to say six
months later, it wasn't onlyavailable to select podcasts,
even though they were sayingthat. But you could sign a
waiver that they have availableon their host and guests page in
the Apple podcast support forcreators. You could sign like

(13:30):
this, like photo release formand make sure that you have your
photo that fits within theircertain specifications. And you
can email it to them. And saylike, Hey, here's the host photo
for such and such podcast, I'vesigned the waiver done all this.
And it might take a while likeit takes like a few weeks. But
your host photo would show up.
Podcasts that had just startedwere able to do this, podcasts

(13:52):
that only had like a couple 100downloads were able to do this.
I know people who did it. Butrecently, my friend Angie, who
hosts the Four Things for YourPodcast, she has some clients
that are podcasters. And shetried to send in one of her
clients photos for their hostphoto. And Apple comes back and
they said we aren't acceptingrequests to add new host and

(14:13):
guest images. So we create theseimages based on relevance
popularity in Apple confidentialalgorithms. And that's exactly
what they sent her. But this isnew, because she had done this a
whole bunch. I've done thiswhole bunch.

Alban (14:27):
I have a theory of what's happening here. I think that
something changed, but I think Ihave a theory of what happened.
Okay. This has always been therule, right? The rule was, Apple
has a proprietary thing. Theyrealized like, hey, the top like
100 shows, we'd like to havetheir images. This would be a
nice experience. If there's aninterview with Barack Obama,
there's his photo at the bottom,you click and then it's like,

(14:48):
Oh, he did like five otherinterviews and you could listen
to those. That was a coolexperience. And then here's what
I think happened. The wayinternally that Apple set this
up was they were requestingimages and when they requesting,
I bet they sent this page thatyou just shared with us. And
we're like, Hey, here's the PSD,here's the release, email, your

(15:08):
info. And when they were doingthat, I think you just were
sneaking them in. And so you'resending in images. And they were
like, oh, okay, I guess and somesupport person was uploading and
creating profiles for you. Andeventually, they got wise to how
these were being submitted. Andthey're like, none of this is
request only. That's my guess.
Is that your guests, Kevin?

(15:32):
Kevin's nodding his head.

Kevin (15:34):
Yeah, I think that is my guess. I forgot I was on the
podcast for a second. I can'tjust nod. Yeah, so I do agree
with that. But I think it was aloophole, not necessarily like a
rule change. That's my guess,though.

Jordan (15:46):
Here's my thinking. I think that it was not a
loophole, they provide all theinformation on the Apple page,
like they provide all of that.
So it's available. So it'sreally easy for any podcaster to
go look at that information onthe Apple podcasts for creators,
hosts and guests. Like you canjust Google it, they have all
the information that you need toprovide to them. They have the

(16:07):
PSD file that you use as atemplate for your profile, and
you can send it off to them.
Everyone had access to this. Andso like, I think what happened
is maybe because it was not anautomated thing. But it was
rather one of their supportstaff doing the uploading, they
probably got so overwhelmed withthe growth of people figuring

(16:30):
out that you could just submitit yourself, even though they
say like, it's only for selectshows. Maybe they had to like
start saying like, Okay, we gotto cut this off at some point. I
think that's what happened. Idon't think it's a thing where,
you know, podcasters were beinglike sneaky little snooks, and
like weaseling their photos inthere. I don't think it's

(16:50):
anything like that. I think theymade the information available.
And then podcasters were able tosend it in, and then they
realized that that was amistake.

Kevin (16:57):
But then they've always said available for select shows,
I think what you're saying isthat they seem to be pretty lax
on what they consider a selectShow. And now they seem to be
tightening up a little bitagain, on what they consider a
select Show. Right?

Jordan (17:09):
Yeah.

Alban (17:10):
It actually it feels a little bit you're like, well,
that loophole was a pretty bigloophole. And so we just kept
going through the loophole, andthen they closed the loophole.
So it wasn't bad that we weredoing I don't think you're bad
that you got only one of us hasa host image, right?

Jordan (17:23):
Yeah. Because I was trying to get your guys' on
there. And somebody, Alban,would never get me his host
image, I should just grabbed itfrom the internet.

Kevin (17:34):
Here's the thing, we all have host images. If you go to
buzzcast.buzzsprout.com, whichis the website for Buzzcast. And
you click on hosts, we all haveimages there. And they are all
available in the RSS feed.

Alban (17:44):
Ooh, what's that part of Kevin?

Kevin (17:47):
That is part of the podcast namespace.

Alban (17:49):
Oh, that's awesome. So is this readily available for
anybody?

Kevin (17:52):
It is in modern podcast apps, which, unfortunately, the
people who use that terminology,don't include Apple in that
category, Apple Podcasts app inthat category, they would call
them a legacy app, not my words,other people who were more
snarky than I am, because Iactually like Apple Podcasts
app. But I do think it would bereally great if they would start
recognizing the person tag,which is the name of the tag

(18:13):
that we use to put these hostimages in there and showing them
up, Apple Podcasts could stilldo, Hey, for select podcasts,
we're going to go the extramile, we're going to do the
photo release, we're going to,you know, not only include the
photo, but actually link thatphoto to other podcast episodes
that this person was in. Andthat's available for select
shows, which is maybe their top100 or top 200 or however far
they want to go however muchmanpower they have. For anybody

(18:33):
else, Hey, if you have it inyour feed, we'll use it and
display it. But when you clickon the person, it's actually
going to go to the whatever URLyou specified for that person,
it's not going to open upanother page within our app that
shows the other episodes becausethat takes too much manpower on
our side, I think that would begreat.

Jordan (18:47):
It would be it'd be a lot easier on Apple staff to
just adopt that. Like theywouldn't have to do all that
stuff by hand. So it makes senseto just do that.

Kevin (18:57):
Yeah. And you don't really need a photo release. I'm
again, I'm not a lawyer, Alban'sa lawyer, he could tell us, but
I don't think you need a photorelease. If I'm saying right in
my RSS feed, Here's my image andhere's the link that I want you
to link to, like the release iskind of inferred at that point.
Right? Putting it on theinternet publicly.

Alban (19:12):
I imagine. Yeah, that's an implied release. But what I
think is here is that Apple is atype of company that wants to
make sure that things are veryclean, very organized, very,
they're very particular. And thepage you sent us, Jordan, it's
like you send us an image. Andhe's be these exact
specifications. And the person'slips have to be about this place

(19:34):
on the image and their eyebrowsat this spot. Very particular
ways they want the image. Theywant to be high quality, and
they probably don't want to justpull in a random like anime
avatar that I put into mypodcast namespace URL, or, you
know, whatever wild photo peopledecide to use as their profile
photo. So I could just see like,even though I really want

(19:56):
podcast apps to adopt this, Ikind of think it'd be a little
bit less likely for Apple justsince that's the kind of company
they are, they want completecontrol over all the visuals.

Kevin (20:06):
I get it. But you're also like embracing Creator content,
like they have to approvepodcast artwork, Episode
artwork, they do that manually.
And I get it because they wantto check for offensive stuff and
all that kind of stuff. But thenonce they, you know, approve it,
for the most part, you canchange your artwork at any time,
and they really don't come backunless people file complaints
against it. I think you justkind of have to let go of that a
little bit. You're adistribution application for
Creator content, right? And soyou can have guidelines, and you

(20:30):
can say, hey, if somebodyreports that as inappropriate or
something, we're going to pullit, we're going to look at it at
that point. But they're notscanning everybody's, you know,
podcast artwork on the regularto figure out if it's continues
to meet guidelines after theinitial submission.

Jordan (20:44):
I just don't understand why they don't add this as an
ability on the podcast creatordashboard.

Kevin (20:49):
Don't you dare. Don't you dare.
No, like anotherproprietary solution to

Jordan (20:52):
What?
something that breaks an openstandard? No, we don't want to
just do this in Apple, if wewant to put this information in.
It's because of wherever mypodcast is consumed. I want my
photo to be available and mylink to be available. I don't
want to have to go into Spotifyand do it there and apple and do
it there and Google and do that.
That breaks the whole point ofRSS distribution, really simple
syndication.

(21:14):
I completely agree withyou. I totally agree with you on
that. But if the reason why theydon't do it is because they want
to have it like linking to allthe different things? Then I say
add it.

Kevin (21:27):
The answer is get over it. It's not like, make it more
proprietary.

Jordan (21:31):
Who get over it? Like the creators that can't upload
their host photos?

Kevin (21:35):
Apple should get over.
No, there's things that they canhave full control over the Mac
that I'm looking at you guys onand my iPhone and iPads like
full control, make thembeautiful, make them fully
controlled, locked down thesoftware, I get it, it's a
different, it's a differentproposition than like a Unix box
or Linux machine. I totally getthat great. Do it all day long.
When you're distributing contentthat's published openly on the
internet, then do it in an openway. Like when I look at a

(21:58):
website in Safari, like theyshouldn't have to approve what
that website looks like. His jobis just to render the website.
Same thing with a podcast app,just render the podcast, take
all the podcasts informationthat's available the RSS feed
and just render it render ithowever you like. Make it
beautiful, make it usable, makeit a great experience, but
render the information that's inthe feed. That's the job of that
app just like a web browser.

Jordan (22:18):
Well, hopefully they will do that in the listen to
this and they'll go you know it.
That's a great idea, Kevin.

Kevin (22:24):
Yeah, sorry. I didn't mean to sound aggressive. I
really do like Apple Podcasts.

Jordan (22:27):
Yeah, no, we love Apple Podcasts and Apple Podcasts
treats thei'r creators really,really well.

Kevin (22:32):
Agreed.

Jordan (22:32):
So it's honestly surprising that there'd be
certain features that are gardenwalled against, like smaller
creators.

Kevin (22:39):
I think it's good. I think it's good. I think what
they did is they triedsomething. And now they're
saying, Yeah, we're pulling backon and, do. Do, please pull back
on proprietary features as muchas possible. But I do, I do
think it's a good idea tosupport posting guest images.
And the great news is thatthey're now available in RSS
feeds, thanks to the podcastnamespace.

Alban (22:59):
So Jordan, you actually got access to Adobe Podcast now?

Jordan (23:03):
Yeah, I actually signed up for it, it used to be called
Project Shasta.

Alban (23:06):
Yeah.

Jordan (23:06):
And I was really interested in it. I signed up to
be like, invited to the betaprogram, like back in October.
And then one of the guys we workwith, like, posted about it. And
then I realized, like, I'mpretty sure it's open to
everybody now. They just likenever invited me.

Alban (23:20):
Oh, really?

Jordan (23:21):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's open to everybody be
interested find out but Ifinally got to try it out. And
the Adobe podcast features,they're like aI powered,
software's what they say. And sothere you have a mic check. And
you can like click a button andsay, How's my microphone setup
in placement? And then it checkslike the distance to the
microphone, the gain, backgroundnoise, and if there's echo.

Alban (23:43):
Yeah, so both of these are public right now. I use the
mic check. That's actually areally popular micro tool that a
lot of websites have that arelike, hey, check your
microphone, make sure it soundsgood. This is cool that it
actually is giving yourecommendations. And I found the
recommendations to be prettygood, at least for me that I was
getting better quality audiowhen I followed their things,

(24:05):
and then enhance speech, similarto like magic mastering taking
bad audio and trying to clean itup a bit. I ran one test file
and it sounded pretty good tome. Have you run more than a few
Jordan?

Jordan (24:16):
I did try running an episode of Dreamful through it.
And what I noticed with it isthat it works really really good
on awful recordings. But if youhave a really quality recording,
it actually kind of distorts theaudio and it makes the recording
worse, which I thought wasreally interesting. And I'm not
sure why that is. I think it'skind of like when you over edit

(24:39):
something and it sounds justlike really compressed and
choppy. It definitely did thatto any audio that I recorded
using my microphone setup.

Alban (24:49):
It's tough thing to get right and you know, if you get a
really bad recording, you know,at some point there's just not
enough data in there to make agreat recording. So, Magic
Mastering does is a really goodjob of this. And I like seeing
other people are getting intothis space and trying to clean
up audio because there's a lotof great recordings out there
that they would be greatlybenefited by just a bit of

(25:11):
mastering work. And if you'renot somebody who understands
that space I'm not, then it's alittle bit painful and it's
really nice if you can run itthrough a tool and get something
out on the other side that'squite a bit cleaner.

Kevin (25:24):
Yeah, I mean, it's a hard thing to get right. And Auphonic
has been the leader in thisspace for a long time, and other
people are coming in and tryingto figure it out. And they've
just got some catching up to do.
So I'm not saying it's like theycan't Adobe won't catch up at
some point. But it is a toughproblem that they're trying to
solve. And a phonic has not onlyfigured it out, but they figured
it out as a result of a massamount of work over a long

(25:44):
period of time with a lot ofreally smart audio engineers and
computer programmers behind it,which is why we partnered with
them for magic mastering so aphonic drives the algorithm that
powers magic mastering, andthat's why we chose him. So it's
great to see other peoplepushing into this space. But I
do think it's might be a whilebefore people get like off on it
is the gold standard thatthey're all shooting for and

(26:04):
trying to achieve.

Jordan (26:06):
Yeah, something that I definitely noticed about their
enhanced speech is that I don'tthink that it levels the
loudness to the required LUFS.

Alban (26:17):
Like -16, -19 LUFS.

Jordan (26:20):
I don't think so, because it sounded a lot quieter
than when I ran my audio throughMagic Mastering because I run
every single episode throughMagic Mastering, I compared the
two and the audio was just likelouder, crisper than it was when
I put it through the Adobe. Sothat was kind of a
disappointment.

Alban (26:36):
So the big piece is that they've actually Adobe,
everybody who's using Adobe toedit audio, it sounds like it's
Audition is what most people areusing right now?

Jordan (26:47):
Yep, that's what I use.

Alban (26:48):
And it's super high end.
I think once Descript was reallythe first ones who said what if
you were editing like you'reediting a Google doc is how you
edited your podcast, you arechanging the words. And Adobe
Shasta, now Podcast, beta lookslike it's their attempt to kind
of follow the same pattern,right?

Jordan (27:08):
Yeah, in the browser window, you can record directly
into the Adobe Podcast byyourself or you can actually
like send an invite link tosomebody to join you in a
recording. And what it does iswhen you stop recording, it
transcribes the audio. And youcan edit very similar to
Descript, where you can deletewords and stuff like that. But
something that really surprisedme with that is that they're

(27:30):
transcribing the audio for youto edit, but there's no option
to export a transcription, whichseems so counterintuitive to me.
But I mean, maybe that'ssomething that they're coming
out with in the future.

Alban (27:42):
That's why it's beta.

Jordan (27:43):
Yeah, hopefully.

Alban (27:44):
Did you actually play with editing? My experience has
been, there's lots of thesetools that try to edit in a
browser. And I know somedaywe'll get there. The fact that
like Figma can edit really bigand complex artwork pieces means
that this is going to probablyhappen at some point for audio
and video. But my experience hasnot been great. With many of the

(28:06):
tools I've done. What did youthink of actually editing audio
in the browser?

Jordan (28:10):
It's really cool, it's a lot more robust than I thought
it was going to be like, you canupload audio files from your
computer, they have stock musicthat you can add, like they have
like bumpers that are fiveseconds, or like intro songs
that are like 15 seconds. Andyou can also put like
placeholders for like an ad readin the future or a segment that

(28:32):
you want to insert or somethinglike that, which is pretty cool
that you can do that. And itkind of just goes down and
everything's in a block. Soyou'll have like, a block of
your audio where you're talkingand that will show as a
transcription, then you can havea block of like music and it
shows up as like a waveform, andthings like that. And then they
also have like templates thatyou can use or when you are done

(28:54):
with a project, you can saveyour project as a template for
future use. So if you just havelike the same format for like an
ad read or something like that,you can actually save that as a
template to use in the future tomake the process a little bit
more streamlined. And that wasreally cool. Um, one of the
things that I found to be themost glaring issue with it is,

(29:15):
so let's say you record a 15second ad read or something like
that, and it doesn't come outquite right. You can't just
click the block and delete it.
You literally have to doubleclick every single word and hit
delete, delete, delete, untilyou deleted every single word in
the editor. And then it willdelete the block.

Alban (29:35):
So you have a block of all these words that have been
transcribed that are tied toaudio and you can't delete a
group and say this whole segmentwasn't good. Instead, you have
to go through and delete eachword.

Jordan (29:46):
Yes.

Alban (29:47):
Yeah, I'm sure it will, hopefully they update that
there's no way. I mean, thebenefit to me of the descript
Style Editor. That's what I'llcall this paradigm. The benefit
is you when you're doing audioediting it can be very tricky to
remember exactly where somethinghappened. And you're looking at
a whole segment that was likefour minutes long, and you're

(30:07):
like, is that good? Or does itfit better? Like 10 minutes
later, I'll move it around alittle bit like Frankenstein the
edit is how you say sometimesJordan Yeah. And you can't do
that if it's one word at a timemoving like the benefit is, oh,
this is a block that I want tomove somewhere else. So I feel
like that's got to be coming.
Because that needs to be inthere. Yeah,

Jordan (30:28):
it's pretty obvious. But they do have things where you
can click a block for like musicor something like that, you can
fade it in, fade it out. You canalso set one of the music blocks
as background music underneath,like as bedding underneath,
you're talking, which is prettycool. I don't know if their AI
just like automatically decideshow loud it should be. Or if you

(30:52):
can adjust that I'm based on howbasic this is. I don't think
that you have controls. So thereare some things like that they
have filters as an option. Butthe only filter so far is the
enhanced speech. So I wanted totest their audio recording and
filtering out, I made sure thatmy recording environment and
equipment were not great. I havethe heat running in the

(31:16):
background. I'm using my MacBookPro microphone, and honestly,
I'm sitting I want to say aboutthree feet away from it. Pretty
bad recording pretty bad. Andthen so what I did was I sent an
invite link to my husband, andtold him to find like the worst
place in our house to recordusing only his cell phone. Yes,

(31:37):
very accurate. We very bathroomlike. Yeah, so you pick the
worst place to record. So that'simpressive.

Alban (31:45):
Thank you. Great job, Josh.

Jordan (31:48):
Yeah, he nailed it. So then I sat down, and I use the
Adobe podcast to record it. AndI had the enhanced speech filter
on while we recorded so this iswhat it sounded like: Testing,
testing. 123 Here is the samerecording with the Adobe speech
enhance filter on sounds prettygood, right?

Josh (32:09):
Yeah. And I can see-

Alban (32:10):
Holy cow.

Josh (32:11):
Jordan started recording.

Alban (32:13):
Whoa, that's- So that was him on his cell phone in the
bathroom. And you joined the micMacBook Pro speaker three feet
away thing?

Jordan (32:22):
Yeah. Like I was sitting really far from my microphone.
He was holding his cell phoneabout he said a foot away. Like
we were purposefully trying toget the absolute worst audio we
could. And it didn't sound thatbad.

Kevin (32:34):
No, it actually sounds really good.

Alban (32:36):
Yeah, yours was significantly better than his,
in my mind. His felt a littlebit flat. But like the getting
to there is very impressive.

Jordan (32:44):
It really is. So if you're recording with somebody
who doesn't podcast like theydon't have any podcasting
equipment actually think it's areally good option.

Alban (32:52):
Yeah. How did the remote recording stuff go? So that's
pretty much like they built insomething that would be
comparable to like Riverside iswhat we use here, Squadcast,
Aoom, something like that?

Jordan (33:04):
Sort of, yeah. So you, there's just a link where you
can invite guests and you enterin their email address. So he
had to sign in, and then itlooped him into the recording.
And it showed him as like awaveform. And I could see live
like while he was talking, itwas kind of a bummer, because
it's only waveform. So it's kindof like just having like a phone

(33:24):
call. So you can't like see anyfaces or anything like that. But
it is recording live. And thenonce you stop recording, it
saves the conversation as asingle waveform, which I also
didn't like.

Alban (33:38):
Ooh, so you didn't get separate tracks for the two of
you?

Jordan (33:41):
Nope. But it was interesting, because what it did
was once it transcribed what wesaid it actually separated us
out into little blocks. So eachtime one of us was talking, it
became a separate block. So itkind of separated it but it
didn't. I think that this isactually a really, really good
option if you are not very techsavvy, or you just want to make

(34:05):
a very simple podcast. Like ifyou don't have like a very
editing heavy podcast, this isactually pretty good option.

Alban (34:11):
Yeah, I mean, Adobe is known for their software, and
they've got some of the bestengineers in the world and
Audition is what a lot of thebest sound designers and editors
in the world use. So I'm excitedto see what they do sounds like
it's still got some betaproperties there. And there's
some stuff that we look at andgo, well, we need something

(34:32):
better. That's not a goodindication of whether or not it
will get there at some point. Ithink it probably will. So it's
exciting to see that they'rekind of stepping into this space
and helping more people getstarted with podcasting.

Kevin (34:44):
Yeah, and I should mention that, you know,
Hindenburg, which is been a longstanding favorite of ours at
Buzzsprout. They have releasedand I missed the presentation
yesterday, but they havereleased a new version of the
Hindenburg editor. And I thinkthe big thing again I missed the
presentation. So sorry, I'mgetting this wrong. But I think
the big thing here is thatthey're doing something similar

(35:05):
to like what Alban was talkingabout with the Descript style of
editing, they are doingtranscription as you either real
time record or drop a previouslyrecorded audio file into the
editor. It transcribes it, andthen it lets you edit from the
transcript. And they did saysomething about it in the press
release that I read that they'vekind of like flipped it on its
head, the idea that like thescript being a edit in the text

(35:27):
format first, like being theprimary UI, or that being the
the problem they're trying tosolve. And Hindenburg saying
like, No, we're like a waveformaudio editor first. But we want
to provide a really great way ofgoing and editing the
transcript. And so I'd be reallyinterested, I can't wait to get
my hands on the latest versionof Hindenburg and see what they
do. But that sounds like areally interesting approach to

(35:48):
the problem. There is this landof in between something like
audition, being like, think ofit in the video world, like a
Final Cut Pro or something. Andthen Apple comes out with this
thing called iMovie. That justmakes it like really simple for
non professionals to createreally great home movies, it
looks like this is kind ofwhat's happening in the podcast
space, there are audio editingapplications, comm does digital

(36:09):
audio workstations that aresuper powerful. And that's where
Adobe edition lives andHindenburg kind of lived in that
space a little bit, not all thebells and whistles of audition.
And there's some others as well,like logic and everything else.
And now there's a simplerversion of these tools. But a
lot of people were saying theywere too simple. And then like
the script came out, and theysaid, Hey, we're gonna take a
totally new approach, you'regonna edit text, and it's gonna

(36:30):
add audio. And I what I think isthere is a sweet spot in there
somewhere. And a lot of peopleare trying to figure this out.
So Hindenburg is trying tofigure it out, Adobe's trying to
figure it out, what I get reallyexcited about is I feel like
this, as people start to figurethis out, what it brings is a
couple of things. One, it makesaudio production, like available
to the masses, right, you startto eliminate some of these

(36:52):
technical hurdles of I don'tknow how to add audio, so I
can't be a podcaster. Well,we're starting to find companies
that are trying to make itsimpler for anybody been able to
do that and produce high qualityaudio. And I think it really
opens up the possibility thatyou can do legit mobile
podcasts, like from your phone,you don't have to sit behind a
laptop or computer anymore. Andyou don't have to have very
expensive headphones, andexpensive microphones and all

(37:14):
this stuff like that might be areality in the next couple of
years, that I could just sendsomebody a link, they could
click on on their mobile deviceand hold their phone up to their
mouth and just talk and we canhave a real high quality podcast
interview, that's gonna requiresome stuff like that we're
seeing being developed now withthis like enhanced speech
feature that Adobe is putting inthis product. If I'm talking to
somebody, and they're in a veryechoey room, like the sample

(37:35):
that Jordan just played when herhusband was in the bathroom,
that's gonna sound terrible,until we can get the technology
available to clean that up, makeit sound good. And it sounds
like they're on the right track.
So I love the idea thatregardless of your preferred
method of editing a podcast,that it's going to be simpler,
and it's going to sound better,even if you're recording in the
bathroom. Even if somebody youknow a plane flies overhead
while you're recording or ifyou're outside in the park like
that we can clean all this stuffup because it's going to make

(37:57):
podcasting more accessible tomore people.

Jordan (38:03):
So Alban, you have been trying out a new podcast app. Do
you wanna tell us about that?

Alban (38:09):
Yeah, I'm testing a new podcasting app called Fathom.
It's on iOS. I don't know ifthere's an Android version yet.
But I talked to the founder alittle bit, named Tyler. What's
different is it's kind ofputting yourself out there is
like an AI powered podcastingapp. And besides just like a
buzzword, I think it's actuallygot some cool ideas. So at the
bases, they're kind of doing thesimilar things. Did you ever use

(38:31):
Clipped or Air, Kevin?

Kevin (38:33):
I remember, I remember them. They were to make what
we'd call sound bites, right?
Little clips from podcasts andshare them on social sites
there.

Alban (38:41):
Well, their first piece was everything's transcribed.
And so as soon as everything'stranscribed, they started saying
like, Okay, now we'vetranscribed everything. Now, you
can do all sorts of stuff, wecan create cool clips, we can
create share features, we can Ithink airs whole thing or clip
one of them was actually likeimporting them to a Notes app
for you so that you could likesave notes from podcasts.

(39:03):
Fathom's kind of using the sameideas, you're getting a
transcript. And so you can seethe words as you're listening to
the podcast transcripts. When Iwas testing it, we're pretty
good. They're not perfect. Youknow, they got both of your
names, right. They may not getAlban perfect, but then they
also are creating lots of clips.
So some of these clips are usergenerated. But the rest seem to
be they're doing something toidentify this looks like a good

(39:27):
little clip from this episode.
And then they're creating arecommendations of a bunch of
podcasts by giving you clips. Soyou kind of just swipe through
and listen to a clip and it's ofsome like three hour, you know,
Huberman lab podcast and youlisten to it for a bit and you
go, Oh, I'd be interested inlearning more about you know,

(39:50):
sleep schedule or something. Andnow I can tell that a four hour
episode, so you're just kind ofgetting to like dip your toe
into some of these really longpodcasts. It can be a little bit
muddy. To be given a entireepisode to try to figure out if
you like something or not. Andover time, it's supposed to get
better and better and be servingyou up lots of clips, I didn't
use it long enough yet to startgetting super focused clips.

(40:14):
Most of the clips I got were forshows that already told the app
I've already using. But it'skind of combining a few things
that we've talked about on thisshow the ability to get a
transcript, which is importantfor accessibility. And also you
can just read along, it's reallynice, you can copy pieces out of
it. Then you've got the clippedpieces where you can share clips

(40:35):
and start building a little bitof a social following and
connect with people over thepodcast. And then podcast
discoverability. You know, we'vetalked about this hundreds of
times on the show. It's hard tofind new podcasts, it's hard to
recommend podcasts. It's justdifficult to commit three hours
to seeing if a show is somethingyou enjoy. And seems like Fathom

(40:58):
is least one of the few that isreally trying to figure this
out. So I'm interested to keepplaying with it. And we'll
report back but that's what I'mtesting out and if anybody
listening to this also has usedit. You know we'd love it. If
you reach out, send us a buzzboost send us something on
Twitter and let us know what youthink.

Jordan (41:20):
We have a new Buzzboost jingle submission and this one's
from Bradley Weaver from thepodcast Bradley Weaver's Family
Fun Club. And he wrote us ajingle that he says is the
antithesis of one from theprevious episode.

(41:49):
Don't you feel so zen?

Kevin (41:53):
It's lovely.

Alban (41:54):
I feel like it's the beginning of Western that buzz
boost Western.

Kevin (41:58):
A really happy Western, no one's getting shot.

Jordan (42:00):
That was really great.
In our Facebook group, KevinLowe. He's one of our listeners
and a podcaster with Buzzsprout.
He wrote a post and he said,You've given me a whole new way
to think of being blind withtoday's episode. It's like my
entire world is a podcast. Sothis is in reference to when
Kevin talked about Podfest andpeople were saying like you

(42:21):
don't look the way that yousounded. So Kevin, you know,
being blind, he's saying, I haveto imagine what everyone looks
like anyway. So his whole worldis podcast. He said, everyone I
meet, I only know them by theirvoice. There's no in person
conference to reveal whatsomeone looks like, Well, unless
I nudge the person next to meand ask them what's that person
look like? And more times thannot my ideas way off. So thanks,

(42:44):
Buzzcast. I'm not blind. I'mjust a really big podcast
enthusiast in that I live like apodcast. That's so great.

Kevin (42:53):
That's great. Thanks for sharing that Kevin.

Alban (42:55):
Have either of you ever done who I don't remember what
it's called now, but there'sthis used to be this exhibit
there was touring, that wasabout like, what it's like to be
blind. It was called like in thedark or blind or something. And
you'd go into a room then it'scompletely black. Like they
blackout all light. So there isnothing you can't see your own

(43:15):
hand in from your face. And thensomebody who is blind comes into
the room, and then walks youthrough this whole exhibit and
his room after room after room.
Kind of saying like, here's agrocery store, like let's
explore it and see what it'slike for oh, okay, everybody
follow me here. Now we'recrossing a street. Let's try to
cross the street and ended therelike there's a curb there. And

(43:37):
it was such a interestingexperience. You know, like
you're realizing, you know, allthese things that seem totally
normal, easy when you have sightlike they're like, you know,
this is a really differentexperience. So I don't remember
what the name of it was, butI'll have to look it up my wife
and I did it and it was reallyincredible.

Jordan (43:55):
That's cool. So in addition to the you don't look
how you sound comment, DaveJones sent us a Buzzboost. And
he said, Kevin, I've createdyour image in my mind and you're
gorgeous!

Alban (44:10):
David Jones has actually met you in person so that's very
kind Dave. But uh, you're notgetting away with it. Mere
Mortals Podcast sent us to to toto all the ducks in a row. I got
one ad while listening to Adamon JRE. Thankfully, no more. I'm

(44:30):
hoping the app will learn I'venever bought something by
clicking an ad after hearing orseeing a random ad. Fools hope
but a man can dream, can't he?
That's interesting, though. Ifeel like they left out the most
important part, which waswhether or not they're a
subscriber to Spotify Premiumbecause that's a conspiracy
theory that Kevin wants to test.

(44:50):
So mere mortals podcast hope youreach out and let us know the
answer to that.

Kevin (44:54):
I can't imagine he pays for Spotify, but you never know.
People have done worse things.
All right. And Genebean wrote inand said, Listen to y'all talk
about Adam and rip on Spotifywas fun, but also really timely
as I'm listening to you justafter I listen to the Podcasting
2.0 Board Meeting. So I'm justmaking a little bit of a weird
face. I hope we don't rip onSpotify too much. We're just
trying to keep them honest,Spotify is doing some cool stuff
in the podcasting space, butthey're also doing some stuff

(45:16):
that we don't love. So just wantto run it all through the filter
of we're interested insupporting podcast creators, and
we'd love the podcasting spacein general. So thanks, Genebean.
Appreciate your comment. And healso sent a row of ducks popular
number, I guess.

Jordan (45:30):
Last episode, I talked about PodConf. The first podcast
conference in the PacificNorthwest and Tony, the PNW
Husker said, Hey, I'm inVancouver. I have two small
podcasts with Buzzsprout. I'd beinterested in possibly helping
out if you need it, let me knowand maybe we can chat. So
hopefully, I'll get see Tony atPodConf in Portland.

Alban (45:50):
And it looks like Pat reached out to Tony on Twitter.
And so we're helping connectpeople to podcast conferences.
So that's exciting. And thenChantel reached out on Twitter
as well. Thank you formentioning dynamic content. I
had no idea. So this is kind oflike good news. Bad news. Kevin.
The good news is we did talkabout dynamic content and more

(46:11):
people are learning about it.
But maybe the bad news wassomebody were on the marketing
team wasn't doing a good enoughjob telling people about all the
features that we have inside ofBuzzsprout. So I'm excited to
figure out new ways to educatepeople about dynamic content, so
they get to use it.

Jordan (46:27):
Alright, I guess that's it. So thanks for listening and
keep podcasting.

Kevin (46:34):
We don't talk about sports. But we did talk about
sports a couple episodes ago,and Jordan said you don't watch
sports on TV. Did you watch theSuperbowl?

Jordan (46:41):
No. I was actually trying to call my mom about the
new like Harry Potter game onXbox. And she wasn't answering.
I was calling her calling hercalling her-

Kevin (46:49):
You call your mom to talk about Xbox games?

Jordan (46:51):
I call her mom for everything. I was really
excited. She finally picked upI'm like, Hey, I'm trying to get
ahold of you like about like theHogwarts game. And she's like,
well, we're watching the SuperBowl with your grandma right
now. I was like, Oh, okay. Ididn't even know that was going
on.

Kevin (47:03):
You didn't even know that was going on.

Alban (47:05):
Jordan, are you calling because you're trying to play
the game or you're talking aboutthe like, controversy that
people are trying to boycott thegame?

Jordan (47:11):
No, I was calling her to be like, my mom and dad are like
super in Harry Potter too. And Iwas like, you have to get this
game. Like you must play it.

Kevin (47:18):
Your parents have an Xbox?

Jordan (47:19):
Yeah.

Kevin (47:19):
And they play video games?

Jordan (47:20):
Mm hmm.

Kevin (47:21):
This is blowing my mind.

Alban (47:22):
This is definitely blowing my mind.

Jordan (47:23):
I have really cool parents. But my dad just like he
gets stuck on like Red DeadRedemption, and it's hard to get
them on anything else. But he isso into this Hogwarts Legacy
game, like both of them weretexting me while they're playing
it last night. Yeah, it was veryfun.

Alban (47:36):
Jordan, you know, this game has been canceled, right?

Jordan (47:38):
No, it has not.

Alban (47:39):
Yeah, it has.

Jordan (47:40):
It has not. No.

Alban (47:41):
There's a whole this is how I found out about it.
Because there's a whole websitededicated to which streamers
have streamed the game so thatpeople can boycott them because
it's a Hogwarts game. So it'sHarry Potter, JK Rowling, and JK
Rowling's canceling? Yeah, nowyou're gonna get it for this

Jordan (47:59):
I am not gonna get it.
They're looking specifically atcomment.
Twitch streamers. Like I'm not astreamer. I really should be. I
think I'd make a killing on it.
But I'm, I'm not on their listof people to target. And I don't
know, I think it's gonna wingame of the year. It's so good.
But anyway, okay, Super Bowl.

Kevin (48:15):
Well, if you didn't watch the roll, I don't know that we
can talk about it. I was gonnahave you know, a little
discussion around some SuperBowl commercials. And something
in particular that I noticed butwas it the QR code? Well, I so I
wanted to start off by justasking you guys like what was
your favorite commercial?

Alban (48:30):
Maybe probably my favorite show was that just
static QR code? There was likescan for free like digital gift.
A hurry.

Kevin (48:37):
Yeah, they that started last year with the Yeah, calm
right. I think they're going todo it. And then somebody tried
to bring it back this year.

Alban (48:44):
Well, this one was so stupid. All my friends who know
that. I have played video gameson my phone and none of them
have. They're all like, oh mygod free digital gift scan. It's
get it like I'm blowing it guys.
I can't get my phone out!

Jordan (48:59):
What company was it even? Like.

Alban (49:01):
It wasn't like it seemed like a Clash of Clans knockoff
or Gem Rush 2000. I don'tremember what it was fun. Just
tried to make it seem like youbetter do it quick.

Kevin (49:11):
So I mean, there was some interesting stuff. I think that
happened with several ads thisyear. One of them. I don't know
if this is true or not. But Iread online that Budweiser had
exclusive like beer advertisingrights to the Superbowl for many
years. And so that's why youwould only see Budweiser and Bud
Light ads during the Superbowl.
And they were they were alwaysgood ads. They're like a big
production value, highproduction value. But for years,

(49:32):
they were the only beer and thisyear, I guess they'd let that go
or expired didn't renew it. Andso you saw lots of other beer
ads for the first time, which isinteresting. Like I never even
really thought about it. Butonce I read that, I assumed it
was true. And I thought back andI was like oh yeah, it is only
Budweiser ads. So that was kindof interesting. Like how much
money did they pay for theexclusive rights? I didn't dig
into it at all, but I can'timagine it was worth it. Like

(49:54):
they basically had to buy outall the other sponsors.

Alban (49:57):
I mean, alcohol is a really, really profitable
business, Kevin. Ambev is thebiggest in the world. And I
think a lot of that is thepopularity of Bud, Bud Light and
all these other alcohol waters.
Yeah.

Kevin (50:15):
Interesting. I mean, I've never thought about it in terms
of like how that could relate tothe podcasting world, because
we're not huge into the ad game.
But like, if I don't know Caspermattress was going to sponsor a
podcast, would they sponsor itin such a way that they put into
their terms that you can'tadvertise? You can't accept
advertisements from any otherMattress Company or something
like that?

Jordan (50:32):
Yeah, that, yeah, there's certain sponsors that I
work with that I cannot beworking with competitors.

Kevin (50:38):
Right. And I'm imagining right now, it's, you don't have
to pay extra for that. It's justjust kind of there sneaking it
into the deal. If you were bigenough to be like Super Bowl
level, then you could be like,yeah, no, if you don't want to
stick any other beer out, you'regonna have to pay us a lot of
money for it. Hey, anyway,little inside advertising thing
that popped up. The other thingwas like, there was some
controversy around the Disneyad. So Disney had this beautiful

(51:00):
ad. Jordan, I don't know ifyou've seen it. But it was a
beautiful ad about like, 100years of Disney. And they showed
all these clips from all thesemagical Disney movies with like
war memories and stuff. And thenpeople got really upset because
Disney just announced that theywere laying off 7000 people, but
they paid $7 million for thisad.

Jordan (51:16):
But I mean, you need advertising.

Alban (51:18):
Yeah, they have to do advertising. Yeah, to make sure
that they have a business sothat they don't have to lay off
all the people.

Kevin (51:23):
The optics on it weren't- You don't want to lay off 7000
people and spend $7 million.

Alban (51:28):
I think there's this like, it's hard to sometimes
filter between the there's anactual controversy here and
there's like a, hey, what ifthere was a controversy about
this thing? And like, at whatpoint is it really a
controversy? I mean, there hasto be some percent of people
that are like, Oh, that'squestionable, but I feel like
there's somebody out there whofinds everything offensive.

(51:50):
Somebody found the SarahMcLaughlin ad offensive. Right.
Did you see that one? Kevin?

Kevin (51:56):
That was kind Yeah, you could definitely tell that was
gonna offend some people. Um,YouTube ran a Superbowl
commercial. You remember seeingit Alban? That was a good
commercial. Okay, so the YouTubecommercial featured Keyboard
Cat, which was like one of themost viral videos that has ever
lived on YouTube and became ahuge meme. But it's that fat cat

(52:18):
wearing that blue shirt, andit's playing the keyboard.
Right. And so what I thought wassuper interesting about that was
Super Bowl commercialstraditionally have massive
budgets behind them. And they'renotoriously expensive to run
these ads. And so I waswondering, I haven't been able
to find anything yet. Probablybecause it's so new. But the
original person who uploadedthat video was Charlie Schmidt.
And it's a very famous video,but I do think that they had to

(52:41):
pay him anything to use thatvideo in their Super Bowl
commercial, I would hope and thecat I hope well, the cats
unfortunately has passed on.

Alban (52:47):
Did you look this up?

Kevin (52:48):
Yes, I looked this up.

Jordan (52:49):
RIP Keyboard Cat.

Kevin (52:51):
So I think the original release date, according to
Wikipedia was 2007. Cats, youknow, the cat had some age on it
at the time already. It wasoverweight and passed away
shortly after the video wasreleased. Just letting you know
about the health condition thatthe cat suffered.

Alban (53:10):
Healthy at any weight dude?

Kevin (53:13):
Well, not for this cat.
And maybe some cats, but notthis one.

Alban (53:16):
I'm sorry. Is this in the Wikipedia that was overweight?
That was important, or did youadd that in?

Kevin (53:22):
No, no, no, the owner of the cat. I'm just, I'm just
reporting on how the ownerdescribes his cat. He actually
named him fatty. And I don'tknow if then it was like, you
know, a self fulfillingprophecy. If he named it when it
was tiny, and it became fat. Orif he changed the name after it
got I don't know. I don't knowanything about it. I just know
the cat's name was fatty. AndI'm really just asking the

(53:44):
question, like, did somebodyupload a video to YouTube, and
then YouTube turned it into aSuperbowl commercial and didn't
have to compensate the originalowner of the video?

Alban (53:52):
I think they've got to pay them?

Jordan (53:54):
Well, unless when you made an account with YouTube,
that you're going to upload thevideo that there was some sort
of like terms and conditions inthere that they then own that
content.

Kevin (54:05):
I think their terms and conditions say they can do
whatever they want to do withyour content. Once you put it on
their platform, then they don'towe you like, I mean, that was
sick and rebroadcast it, theycan use it however they want
right. Now, if they use if theyput advertising around it like
on the YouTube platform, and youremember the partner program,
they share revenue with you. ButI don't know if they take your
video and just use a Superbowlad if they owe you anything.

Alban (54:25):
I think you're just like guessing this, right?

Kevin (54:28):
I'm totally guessing.
This is how I do life, man. Ijust do conspiracy. I'm not a
reporter. I just throw outthings that I'm thinking. Yeah.
So I was thinking, what ifsomebody you know, I don't know.
Like, could it ever touchpodcasting this way? It's
touching the video world in thisway. And I don't know what the
rules are what they have to owethem. If YouTube contacted
Charlie Schmidt and said, Hey,we want to use your video for
Superbowl commercial, can wework out a deal? Or if they just

(54:49):
said, No, we can do whatever wewant with it. So we're going to
use it.

Jordan (54:53):
Would that fall on the hosting companies? Or would it
be on the platforms that it'sdistribute had to. Because
YouTube's a host.

Kevin (55:02):
I think it'd be on the platforms you distribute to. So
if you like, I think if you putyour there's there's terms and
conditions around submittingyour podcasts, like Spotify, for
example. And I think that meansa spike. Now, if you host with
anchor they can, it says thatthey can use it for however they
want to use it. Right? Itdoesn't say they don't own it.
Right. They don't own it.
They're not claiming ownership.
But I think what they'reclaiming is that they can use it

(55:24):
however they want. I don't knowif that would be applicable,
like if this podcast is onSpotify, but if it were, and I'm
sure they'd probably want to useSpotify ever runs a Superbowl
commercial, they're probably

Alban (55:34):
I don't think they're putting this content in a Super
Bowl ad. I don't think we haveto worry about that
potentiality.

Jordan (55:40):
Maybe Joe Rogan.

Alban (55:43):
It looks like this cat video has already been the
subject of two lawsuits infederal court. Schmidt has been
rigorously defending thesecopyright claims. And people
replaced remember the three wolfshirt?

Jordan (55:58):
Yeah.

Kevin (55:58):
Yes.

Alban (55:59):
So somebody made like the three fatso shirt and playing
the keyboard. And thenThreadless countered and said,
Actually, he gave up hiscopyright. When he asked people
to upload videos tributing hiscat after it passed? I'm
guessing that he wascompensated. Kevin, that would

(56:19):
be just wild to me. If you gaveup the rights to have your stuff
rebroadcast on Superbowl ads, byputting it on YouTube, that
seems so unlikely for me tothink that that that had any
chance of being a legitconspiracy theory, I would want
to go actually see someoneclaimed that that happened?

Kevin (56:39):
I would think so. But isn't it more fun? Just to think
that Charlie was just at home,watching the Super Bowl, and
then all of a sudden, his videopopped up on the screen? For
fun.

Alban (56:51):
He loses it.

Kevin (56:52):
No, he's super excited at first. He's like, I can't
believe this. This is great. Andnow he's the next day he wakes
up and he says I'm gonna suethem. I'm gonna sue their pants
off. Anyway, that's what I wantto talk about. I thought that
was really cool that somebody'sviral video made it to a
Superbowl commercial. Maybe it'snot the first time but it's the
first one that I noticed. Yeah,I'd be interested to find out if
the original upload personCharlie Schmidt, if he got

(57:15):
compensated if that was part ofa deal, or if they're just like,
Nope, you can we can do whateveryou want with your stuff.