Top 5 Motivations To Keep Podcasting

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In podcasting, it's not just about downloads—it's about connection, creativity, and the community you build along the way! We're diving into stories of inspiration and practical advice from our listeners that you can implement in your own podcasting journey. 

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• Small P Podcasting

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Episode Transcript

Alban (00:00):
Do either of you know what this is?

Kevin (00:02):
That is a radiation meter .

Alban (00:03):
Uh close, this one's a CO2 meter.

Kevin (00:06):
How is that close?
Co2 is not close to radiation.

Alban (00:09):
Okay, it's similar because the same company, the
exact same form factor, makesone for radiation, and so I was
thinking it's close because youmight've seen one and gone.
Oh, I think I know what that is.
Apparently, cognitiveperformance is drastically
reduced once you get to acertain level of CO2.
And so I bought one of theseand it just sits on my desk and

(00:30):
it just updates the ink displayevery once in a while and it
lets me know what the CO2 is.
When we started the pre-show,it was down in normal, healthy
ranges, but I closed the windowand then I closed the door and
I'm already in the yellow.
I'm already in the like slightcognitive decline level.

Jordan (00:49):
So what can you do to fix that?

Alban (00:51):
Open the window but you can't turn on a fan like
something with better airflow.
But it's creeping up.
I'm in this room.

Jordan (00:59):
By the end of the episode, you're going to be
incapacitated.

Kevin (01:02):
You should get one of those cans.
You know they sell them in highaltitude places Jordan.
You probably have them like arip off of the O2.
Yeah, the oxygen canisters ohyeah, yeah, they sell them in
ski resorts.
All the time People getaltitude sickness.

Alban (01:14):
Well, I think the real solution for me is just open the
window every once in a whilebut I've always said I feel like
more tired at the end ofbuzzcast and look at this.
That's when I closed the window, it's when I closed the door.

Kevin (01:25):
Well, I don't know why you're recording in like a
hermetically sealed environment.

Alban (01:29):
What do you have set up?
You have a fan.
You can't have a fan, Jordanwill make you turn it off.

Kevin (01:34):
I actually do have a fan going today.

Jordan (01:35):
I mean, my heat kicks on .

Alban (01:37):
All right For a reference .
We're at 1100 CO2 parts permillion right now.
This is the moderate.
Oh, no update.
Breaking news.
Breaking news.
We're at 1227 CO2 parts permillion.
It's in the yellow.

Jordan (01:54):
So what are the dangerous levels here?

Alban (01:56):
All right, jordan.
All CO2 is measured in partsper million.

Jordan (01:59):
Okay.

Alban (02:00):
Below 600, essentially no negative effects.
This is fresh air.
This is outdoors.
600 to 1,000, possible earlydecreases in decision-making
speed or focus.

Kevin (02:16):
Alban, can we push pause for a second?
Here's what you're missing.
You're reading some prettyboring stuff.
We're recording a podcast.
Your job is not to present theboring information in a boring
way.
Your job is to present boringinformation in an exciting way.
Kevin.

Alban (02:25):
I would know that if I was not in the 1,000 to 2,000
range right now.
Clear cognitive performancedeclines in high stakes tasks
increased fatigue, that's whatit says that's what I'm saying.
All right, Take it from the topand give me some energy.
How am I supposed to do that?
I'm the one with decline.
How am I supposed to do that?

(02:47):
I'm the one with decline.
Below 600 is where you'resupposed to be.
That's the outdoors.
600 to like 800 is whatbuildings are rated for.
That's where we're supposed tobe.
I'm at 1,227.
It says clear cognitiveperformance declines in high
stake tasks like podcasting.
Increased fatigue.

Jordan (03:02):
It says that on the website.

Alban (03:04):
It doesn't say.
The podcasting 2000 is whereyou start getting headaches,
pronounced sluggishness,potential confusion, and my
numbers have gone up 500 pointssince we've been talking.

Kevin (03:14):
Yeah, I think you got a lot of problems, Alban CO2 being
one, but there's more.
They're all coming for yourcogs, your cognitives.

Jordan (03:22):
Here we go your cogs, your cognitives.
Welcome back to Buzzcast, apodcast about all things
podcasting from the people atBuzzsprout.
So last episode we asked you tolet us know what motivates you
to keep podcasting and we had awhole bunch of responses and so
we're kind of building thisentire episode around all of the

(03:45):
responses that we got andcompiled them into different
groupings.
We found common like threadsand themes for what keeps
podcasters motivated.
So the first one that we haveis personal growth and skill
development.
Ish from the not so breakfastshow said that after 200
episodes, skill development anddiscipline of turning up every
week is what motivates him tokeep podcasting and has also

(04:05):
helped him to advance his careerand stay up to date with
technology.

Alban (04:09):
Oh, that's cool.
We got another from Alessandrafrom the Dom Sub Living podcast,
who wrote in and said she wasinspired by MKBHD's creator
story and set a personal goalthat she could upgrade her
equipment after 100 episodes.
I love this idea of holding outon upgrading gear until you hit
certain milestones.
I do this every time I go toHome Depot to do a project.

(04:31):
I'm like I'm allowed to buyonly one tool, or else I'm like
the person who'd spend all theirtime like looking at new tools
and new ratchet sets orsomething.

Jordan (04:39):
Yeah, and it's also setting a goal of how many
episodes you've completed.
It's not like how manydownloads you get.
It's not like, oh yeah, once Ireach 10,000 downloads, I'm
going to allow myself to do this.
It's saying like if I stickwith this for 100 episodes,
which I think is, like she said,inspired by MKBHD's creator
journey, where he talked abouthow he only had like 100

(04:59):
subscribers for his first 100episodes on his YouTube channel
and now he's, like, one of thebiggest YouTube creators in the
world.

Kevin (05:06):
Yeah, there's some really , really good insights here.
I love the application ofpodcasting, for sure, but as you
guys are reading these out, I'mjust thinking like how many
things in my life do I go outand I buy something because I
feel like buying that thing isgoing to make me better at X, y
or Z?

Alban (05:20):
How many pickleball paddles have you bought?
I?

Kevin (05:25):
have like a subscription to pickleball battles, but yeah,
sports equipment for sure, likeyou're always convinced you
could buy a better game, right.
But it's certainly true inpodcasting too, that in my next
level of podcast, unlock isgoing to come with a different
microphone or a different, youknow, mixer or headphones or
something like that, and so likeI, or headphones or something

(05:47):
like that, and so like I thinkthat stuff should be fun.
It's like we shouldn't denyourselves of that stuff, but I
like the idea of making it likean earn out, and it doesn't have
to be number of downloads orsomething that is, in a lot of
ways, a lot of stuff is veryhard to control.
Certainly, you can market yourpodcast, but I like the simpler
metrics of just like if I get to100 episodes, I'm going to give
myself some level of reward,because that's totally within

(06:07):
your control.

Alban (06:08):
You can 100% do that function, doing the show as a
forcing function to get me topay attention to what's
happening with technology.
I recently somebody joined theteam on the YouTube side and he
was like, oh, I'm really deepright now I'm going to do this

(06:32):
live stream and talk aboutpodcasting gear.
So I'm just catching up on allthe podcasting gear and I was
like you know, it's reallyhealthy to have these moments
where you present on somethingbecause you know things until
you have to present it and thenyou go.
I want to go even deeper andreally understand the nuance of
each of these pieces ofequipment and podcasting is that

(06:56):
for me.
I think it'd be easy to say Iknow what's going on in the
podcasting industry, but everyweek now, getting together and
doing this show and recordingand reading new stories and
stuff, I'm staying much moreabreast of what's happening in
the day-to-day updates ofpodcasting than I probably would
, even though I work here.
I'm staying much more abreastof it because we have this thing
that's pushing us every week tosay, hey, make sure you know

(07:17):
what's happened in the last weekbecause we're going to chat
about it.

Jordan (07:20):
What you said with how there's this inward value to
podcasting and the personalgrowth.
There's also some outward valuewith building connections with
other people.
So one of the other threadsthat I kind of pulled from this
is listener impact and humanconnection, and Sander, from the
Netherlands, says that when heneeds it he rereads old listener
messages saying how muchthey've benefited from the

(07:43):
podcast to stay motivated.

Kevin (07:46):
That's me for sure.
I don't know short memory guyor something, but anytime we go
back and bring up some of ourold reviews or old fan mail or
something, it reminds me that wegot it, but it's never top of
mind.
I never think about it on theregular.
And so building some sort ofregularity into your process of
going back and remindingyourself that you are having an

(08:07):
impact on people, that there arepeople who are listening to you
, who are enjoying your contentand, jordan, I know you love to
avoid reviews at all.

Jordan (08:14):
Yes.

Kevin (08:14):
Like you do everything you can.
You don't love them, but Idon't know for me and I think,
Alban, you've expressed asimilar sentiment Some of the
earliest reviews.
I haven't thought about them inyears, and so there is some joy
going back once in a while andreminding yourself.
Oftentimes it doesn't you know,you just forget, and those old
messages can be verymotivational to help you keep
going.

Alban (08:34):
I've talked about this before on the podcast.
I'm trying to leave morecomments on videos and reply to
more things online that I enjoyor share more articles, and
reply to more things online thatI enjoy or share more articles,
and most of it is like I'mtrying just to be a better fan
and be better at letting peopleknow like, hey, this had an
impact on me.
That was positive, becausethere have been plenty of times

(08:55):
we've gotten a message when wecame back to YouTube.
We put a lot of work into thisvideo and we're like we really
haven't been doing much onYouTube in a while.
What's the reaction going to be?
First comment was I'm so glad tosee Buzzsprout back on YouTube
more and I'm like you justvalidated so much work in
putting together a new jobdescription and going through

(09:15):
all these interviews and findingthe right person and onboarding
and everything we put into it.
Somebody left a 20 secondcomment that made me feel like,
yes, okay, yeah, we made theright call.
This feels good, yeah, and Ithink it's so valuable for
people, for us all, to becommenting and supporting each
other, and so reading thosereviews and getting fan mail
messages those are huge.

Jordan (09:36):
Yeah, and we have like a similar story from Megan of
VetLife Reimagine saying thatshe finds purpose when listeners
say they feel less alone.
And then, of course, matt fromGirl Dad Nation is inspired by
guest stories that really pushhim to be like a better father
in his own life too.
So I do think that there issomething to be said about
receiving this feedback fromyour listeners, from your guests

(09:59):
even sometimes, and just makingsure that you have a folder in
your email account where you putthose messages so you can go
back and reflect on them, fanmail, pin it to your website so
that you can just always,whenever you're feeling like a
little down and you're notfeeling motivated, go look on
your website, go read those nicemessages again, because it does
help so much to just remindyourself that at some point,

(10:20):
like you did help somebody,you're probably going to help
someone in the future too.

Alban (10:24):
Yeah, I, like you notice Matthew is also touching on that
first one, the personal growth.
He's connecting with his guests, but it's also pushing him to
be a better father.
He has a goal that is justpersonal I want to be a better
father, I want to take care ofmy girls, and the guest stories
are helping him reflect on whatareas am I doing a great job?

(10:45):
What areas could I grow andimprove?

Kevin (10:48):
I do like what Matthew said.
I like the fact that, in a lotof ways, podcasting gives you an
opportunity to what's thesaying that people say, like you
know, preaching to the choir,which is preaching to people who
already believe what youbelieve.
But there's also like putting amessage together, doing
research, learning more about atopic, for you being the first
audience, like the firstbeneficiary of that information.

(11:08):
And podcasting does a great jobof providing a forcing
mechanism, a method, like areason to do that.
So you have some expertise, youhave some interest in a
particular topic, whateveryou're podcasting about, and it
gives you the cycle that happensoh, I'm interested in something
, I want to talk about it, I'mgoing to have to do research on

(11:28):
it, which I enjoy, and it makesme have a better understanding,
more of an expert on whateverthe topic is, and then I get to
share that with other people andI get to do it again and again
and again and again and again.
And so I also think that thatis a lot of the reason, like, on
the other side of it, if youstart podcasting about a topic
that you're really not highlyinterested in or for reasons
that are like, like, a lot ofpeople get into podcasting
because they want to chase moneyor something like that, and

(11:50):
it's a very hard way to earnmoney.
It's a and it's not asfulfilling as some of these
other reasons that we get intopodcasting, and so that cycle is
not going to kick off in thesame way.
You got to, you've got to makea living, got to make a living.
You have to earn money.
Podcasting is a tough way to dothat, and so it can kind of be
destructive.
But if you just like arepodcasting about something that
you're passionate about, ormaybe something that you think
you might be passionate about,and then you start learning

(12:11):
about it and you start gainingexpertise, and then you realize,
oh, I'm actually understandingthis stuff pretty good and I
like sharing it with people, andthen your passion grows and
then the cycle keeps going,those are all really motivating
things and we'll keep youpodcasting for a long time.

Alban (12:22):
Yeah, I, I've got some thoughts on this that now look
like they're probably going tobe connected to your next one
more Jordan.

Jordan (12:28):
That's exactly what I was going to say.

Alban (12:29):
Let me read some more from the listener impact and
human connection.

Jordan (12:33):
Okay.

Alban (12:33):
Remy Roy from driven introvert podcast says that
putting something out into theworld that connects with people
is gratifying and fulfilling,knowing I'm doing something and
there are people out there whoare feeling like, oh, this is me
, this is my group, this is mycommunity.
That's important, that'svaluable, it's awesome.

Jordan (12:52):
Yeah, and then we also this morning had Richard write
in to say that success lookslike making a positive impact in
someone's life and knowing thathe's making a difference gives
him the motivation to keep going.

Kevin (13:03):
One of the things that we talk about a lot is that stats
can be like demotivating right.

Jordan (13:07):
Yeah.

Kevin (13:08):
And there is another side of that coin and we don't talk
about it all like probablynearly enough and that is that
we have to remind ourselves aspodcasters that podcasting is
like an opt-in medium right.
So anybody who's listening,whether it be three people, five
people, 10 people or 10,000people, they have all opted in
to listening to you, for someamount of time and again you can

(13:28):
go look in Apple and Spotifyand see how much they listen to
or whatever, but they chose tolisten to you.
And so while oftentimes we lookat numbers in podcasting and
we're like, oh, that's such alow number compared to, I don't
know, expectations orperceptions or hopes and dreams
or whatever, it just feels lowno expectations or perceptions
or hopes and dreams or whateverit just feels low.

(13:48):
But remember, this is opt-in.
This is not throwing up a videoon YouTube.
Where YouTube is, the algorithmis going to test it and try to
find an audience for it and thentry to keep presenting it in
front of people who it thinksthat might be interested in it a
little bit.
And every time it tries topresent one of those things,
it's going to increase yourcounter by one because they
really want to keep youmotivated to upload another
video.
And there's a whole bunch ofreasons why those numbers like

(14:10):
it benefits YouTube to have makesure that you're getting bigger
numbers.
None of that exists inpodcasting.
It's a total opt in thing, likesomebody got a recommendation
from somebody to listen to yourshow or somebody went to some
sort of podcast search engineand searched for your topic and
then chose to listen to yourshow.
Or somebody went to some sortof podcast search engine and
searched for your topic and thenchose to listen to an episode.
Like based on the little titlethat they read, or the
description, or your podcastartwork or whatever it was,

(14:32):
something caught their attentionand it wasn't forced upon them,
and so the low number, eventhough it feels small, is still
so meaningful compared to lotsof other ways that you could put
a message out to the world.

Jordan (14:46):
I think that's a really good point, because I mean, yeah
, if you're on Instagram, yeah,if you put a reel out and you
get 1000 views on it, like, arethey meaningful views?
Did someone linger on it for aliteral second before they
switched to the next one?
Your views on social mediamight not actually even be real.

Alban (15:03):
Talking about stats and your ability as a listener to
impact the show.
I mean, everyone here iswriting about someone reaches
out to the show and it means alot to me.
I think I mean for 10 plusyears I've been looking for what
are my favorite marketingpodcasts and I've listened to
hundreds and the one I think isprobably the best is the Ahrefs

(15:24):
podcast hosted by Tim Solo, andI imagined it was just massive
this whole time, but it's theone I like the most.
And Tim posted on Twitter andwas like oh, here's the five
best episodes from last yearfrom YouTube, because they do
video and podcast combined.
I think he said the top episodehad 6,000 downloads.

(15:45):
Slash views.

Jordan (15:46):
Oh, wow.

Alban (15:47):
And I was like, whoa, wait, that's pretty small for
what I consider to be top of thetop of the line, like really,
really valuable.
It's not like a goof aroundpodcast and even the shows that
are crushing it are not as bigas you think.
And if people get one to twomessages a show, you have a

(16:08):
pretty big impact on them.
And so, yeah, right in, likeRichard said, or like all these
other people have said, let themknow hey, you're having a
positive impact on my life.
Here's how it definitelyempowers me and encourages me to
go and message Tim and say, hey, I've been listening to this
for a long time and I reallyenjoy it.

Jordan (16:26):
Speaking of enjoy, let's go to our third theme, and this
one is fun, creativity and joy.
Yes, I love this so much.
So Michelle from new creationmeditations had actually quit
podcasting for a long timebecause she was putting too much
pressure on herself, and nowshe's coming back with a mission

(16:47):
to just have fun and she hasrebranded her podcast to rise
and rain and she has this likewild cover art to match the new
vibe and she's just going intoit without all that like
pressure to be perfect and youknow whatever else she was
feeling that made her burn outon our podcast.
I actually relate to this somuch, Michelle, because I have

(17:08):
done the same to myself in thepast and I remember last year,
at the beginning of the year, Isaid this is going to be my year
of fun.
I just like put my flag down, Ideclared it this is the year of
fun, and last year was one ofthe best years I've had in my
adult life.
So I think that there issomething to be said of letting
go of putting that pressure onyourself and just saying you

(17:30):
know what, I'm gonna have funwith this, and of putting that
pressure on yourself and justsaying you know what?
I'm gonna have fun with thisand that's that, and it just can
really change your mindset.

Alban (17:35):
I listened to a clip from Magnus Carlsen.
He's probably not the numberone chess player in the world
now, but he was for a really,really long time, probably the
greatest chess player of alltime, and he was talking about
how he prepared and he's likeI'm always thinking about chess
because it's fun.
And he's like he was a chessprodigy and then he started
getting chess homework and hewent back to his professor and

(17:56):
was just like hey, I love doingthe problems, I love working
with you, I love the classes, Idon't like homework and I'm only
going to do the part of itthat's fun.
And so everything he wasmotivated by was this is fun,
I'm learning more was this isfun, I'm learning more.
I'm playing better chess.
I'm getting better and better,and he said that in the

(18:19):
beginning it wasn't a big deal,but over time, as he's with all
of his peers who are grinding itout every day and him who's
just having a blast, then that'swhat led him to be the greatest
chess player of all time.
If you're having fun, it's hardfor other people to keep up.
They might be able to do it fora week or two, but if you're
really enjoying your work,you're going to be excited to go
into the office.
You're not going to be dreading, you know, sunday night.

Kevin (18:40):
There are certainly things in life that, whether you
have fun doing them or not,they need to be done.
Oftentimes that's work andhopefully, for everybody who's
listening, there's certainaspects of your job which you
really enjoy, and then there'scertain parts that you don't
enjoy as much and there might becertain parts that you really
dread, but you've got to kind ofdo all of it.
Hobbies, on the other hand,really shouldn't fall into that

(19:02):
category too often, and ifyou're podcasting for a hobby
and you're finding that there'sa lot in this podcasting space
that you really don't enjoy,then maybe that's a signal that
something is off, and maybe whatyou're podcasting about, or
like how regularly you'repodcasting, or the amount of
time and prep time that you'reputting into your podcast, like

(19:22):
beforehand or editing after.
But those are all things thatyou can control and you can make
changes to the process to bringthe fun back.
This is a very common thing insports.
Anybody who does any sort ofsport or athletics as a hobby is
you go from amateur where it'sjust fun.
I'm just going out and I'mtaking up jogging or I'm hiking
or I'm swimming or whatever andthen all of a sudden, hey, I'm

(19:44):
starting to get pretty good, andnow I'm going to compete with
people, and now you start tofeel like this pressure and I
have to train today because Ihave a race coming up in two
weeks and I don't really feellike training today.
But back when it was fun, if youdidn't feel like training, you
didn't train, and if you didfeel like training, you did
train because it was all for fun.
I don't know if there's a wordfor something like this, but,
like, as you get better,pressures mount, and most of

(20:06):
them are internal.
Sometimes there's, you know,you start to have fans and fans
have certain expectations.
So some of it is external, butthe majority of it is usually
internal motivations of I wantto get to the next level, and in
order to do that, I have to dostuff that I don't enjoy as much
as I used to.
You know, whether it bepracticing or drilling, or
buying more equipment or settingup new equipment or learning

(20:26):
this new technical thing ordoing something, and it can
really rob you of just beingable to have fun, and so I'm
wondering how to make itpractical.
Are there certain things thatwe can do to relieve pressure If
we're starting to feel some ofthe symptoms or see some of the
signs of it's not as fun as itused to be, pay attention to
that and then figure out, like,can I do something?
Just to sort of experiment, tosee if I can bring more joy back

(20:49):
to something that I used toreally enjoy?
So if you're in a place likethat with your podcast recording
or editing or whatever, can youdo something different?
So I have this podcast episodecoming up in a couple of weeks.
I'm kind of dreading it becauseI don't feel prepared for this
topic or whatever.
Maybe change the topic or maybejust say I'm going to find a
guest I don't usually haveguests on my show, but I'm going

(21:09):
to bring.
Instead of me doing all theresearch and trying to be the
expert, I'm going to try to findan expert.
Maybe that'll be fun.
I don't know.
Whatever experiments you cancome up with, but bring
creativity, open your mind andtry something new.
But give yourself the freedomto just be like.
I want to pay attention toanything that is not as fun as
it used to be and I want to,course, correct for that early,
before it robs me of this thingthat used to bring me a lot of

(21:31):
life.
It used to bring me a lot ofjoy and now I don't like it
anymore, like that's burnout.
That's what we want to prevent,and the sooner you can catch
that and course correct for it,the better chance you have of
being able to stay engagedlong-term with something that
you really enjoy.

Alban (21:44):
Okay.
So example of that in my lifewas with running.
I just noticed I was notenjoying it as much, didn't
really notice why.
And yesterday I'm going out fora run and I'm grabbing my Apple
watch to put it on and I wasjust like I think I know what I
don't like anymore.
I don't like the constantchecking my pace, looking at the
data, after all this dumb stuff, checking what my heart rate

(22:06):
was.
So don't wear my whoop, don'twear my Apple watch, don't take
headphones.
I just ran and I ran I don'tknow about four miles based on
how long it felt, and it was soenjoyable and I was like, oh,
this is the part that I liked.
And I figured out which part Iwasn't liking right now.
Maybe I'll like it again soon,but I just wanted I went.

(22:27):
Oh, I don't like the trackingpart, so I'm just going no
tracking.
And it was probably the firsttime in 15 years that I'd run
more than a few miles withoutany music or podcasts or
anything, and I loved it.
I really enjoyed it.

Jordan (22:40):
This reminds me of that no Stats 90 challenge that we
had talked about sometime lastyear.
Right, it's like once you letgo of the metrics, then you were
just able to enjoy the act.

Alban (22:51):
Yes, yeah, we all get into stuff because we're like,
oh, this thing will be fun.

Jordan (22:56):
Yeah.

Alban (22:56):
But once you start tracking all the metrics and
there's all these like KPIs youknow the key performance
indicators how will myperformance be judged?
As soon as you have all those,pretty soon you start looking at
it, going oh that wasn't a goodrun because it wasn't fast
enough or my splits were wrongor my cadence was bad, instead
of saying that was a good run, Ifelt good, I enjoyed it and I'm

(23:21):
smiling after.
That's why I got into it.
And yet somehow cadence metricsare becoming the thing that
destroys the joy.

Kevin (23:29):
And usually people perform and end up doing better.
The more fun that they'rehaving, the more relaxed that
you are, the more joy you'regetting from doing the activity
that you're doing.
Alban, I'm assuming, if you goout and are not worried about
your metrics and you're justhaving fun and you're running
with a buddy and then all of asudden boom, like four miles
just flew by out of nowhere, youfeel great, it was, it was

(23:49):
wonderful.
You're probably ready to doanother four, as opposed to if
you're just by yourself and yougot your all your stats and
monitoring apps all over yourbody and you're running and
you're like, ah, it's going slowtoday or I don't feel good or
what's that weird feeling in mycalf Like what's happening?
I hate this.
It's just totally differentenvironment.
It is Right.
So figuring out how you canmaximize whatever benefit it is

(24:10):
that you're looking for out ofpodcasting, I think can go a
really long way in helpingpeople keep podcasting for the
long term.

Alban (24:16):
All right.
So Jacksonville has the big run, like our big river run.
This is the thing we're mostfamous for on Saturday.
I know, obviously, my exacttime last year and I had all my
tracking data and I told my wifeand I was like I think I'm
going to run it.
I might just run it only withmy like G shock watch, no phone,
nothing.
Do you think I'll run faster,kevin?

Kevin (24:37):
I don't know, but I think at the end of it, if you just
go out there and your goal isjust to have fun and enjoy, race
with you know, 10,000 otherpeople from the Jacksonville
area, and see the scenes, andrun over a huge bridge and push
yourself and see what you can do, bridge and push yourself and
see what you can do, I think atthe end of the day, regardless
of what your time is, I thinkyou might say I enjoyed it more
this year than last and I thinkthat should be the goal.
It's a hobby, right?

(24:58):
You're not a professionalrunner.
You're not going to go amarathon record anytime soon, so
the goal should just be how doI cross that finish line?
And my smile this year isbigger than it was last year
when I crossed.

Alban (25:11):
Yeah, I mean, we've talked about this with golf.
Golf is the one where peopleare, like they're so focused on
like how far does my seven irongo?
How accurate are my putts?
Like, dude, you're not makingthe tour, it's over.
Like the goal of top levelperformance is gone, but the
goal of having a good time withyour friends is here right now.
Like that opportunity is here.

(25:33):
Grab it.
Don't miss that, because you'rechasing a totally arbitrary
putting performance goal that isnot going to impact the only
thing you could get out of golf,which is like the joy of golf.
Yeah, so I don't want todismiss the tracking stuff
because I am a tracking person,but I feel like I'm a little bit
in the.
I think I need to take a breakfrom the stats type of period.

(25:55):
Enjoy the fun, creativity,enjoy.
So to read another one, dark ofthe sun on Reddit said it's
honestly a chance to hang outwith their best friend every
week.
Without the podcast, theywouldn't really talk at all.
That's so good.

Jordan (26:10):
And relatable.

Alban (26:11):
It's relatable for me with Kevin.
I mean, for five years therewere plenty of periods where
Kevin and I didn't talk betweenbuzzcasts.
We wouldn't talk, we would justbe busy and we'd be
headstalling a project.
And it's not just a chance totalk about podcasting, it was
also a chance to like laugh andgoof around and feel connected.
And so there are plenty ofperiods where we did not talk
between buzzcasts.

(26:32):
There's another side of thatcoin, of course, Alban.

Kevin (26:35):
There's plenty of times where I come up to Alban in the
office and I'm like, oh my gosh,I got this hilarious story.
And you're like, is it likereally hilarious?
I'm like, yeah, it's going tobe great, you're going to love
it.
And he tell them like in themoment and you don't have the
expectation of waiting multipledays going.

Alban (26:57):
I'm now second guessing how funny this story is.
Now that's going to be recorded.

Jordan (27:01):
Yeah, there's something about when you're an adult you
have to have a reason to doeverything.
I don't I don't know what it is.
We just we put this likeparameter on our lives where we
have to have a purpose for everysingle thing.
Even if it's just like hangingout with friends, like it has to
be a game night or a dinnerparty, you have to have a reason
for it, and so it makes sensethat you would just have a

(27:21):
podcast and, like, once a week,you're just going to get
together, you're gonna talkabout your favorite albums,
you're gonna talk about yourfavorite shows, and that is
going to be your time to catchup.
And speaking of friends, mybest friend, katie of Heavenly
Bedtime she responded to thisand said that she was motivated
by how her show helps peoplerelax, and just knowing she
improves their lives brings herjoy in creating the podcast.

(27:44):
That's very her knowing herthat making other people's lives
better just gives her joy andit fulfills her enough to keep
podcasting in that way.

Kevin (27:52):
That is good.
I don't know that I can relateto it Not in a terrible way but
I don't know that I've ever feltlike, oh, we just did a great
episode.
I think we help people relaxand we help improve their lives.
I don't know.

Alban (28:06):
Maybe we do.
If Kevin's bringing joy to yourlife, please write in do.

Jordan (28:14):
If Kevin's bringing joy to your life, please write in.
So, basically, I think whatwe've gleaned from this section
is you know, let go ofperfection, embrace fun
creativity, use your podcast asa space for, like,
experimentation and exploration,and then also just find ways to
get more joy in your podcasting.
All right.
So number four buildingrelationships and community.

(28:34):
One of my favorite responsesthat we got uh, scott from talk
with history, said that thepodcast brought him and his wife
closer together and had giventhem something they really enjoy
doing together.
He said we joke that it took 15years of marriage before we
finally found something we enjoydoing together.
Dude.

Kevin (28:53):
I can relate to that.
I can relate to that my wifeand I have had.
We've been lucky, I guess,because we have found many
hobbies over the years that weboth enjoy, but they you know
hobbies wane Like.
For a while we were early inour marriage, we got into
triathlons, we got into running,we got it like.
It's just been different thingsbut they're like seasonal Right
, and so I do love, uh like, ifpodcasting becomes part of a

(29:15):
important relationship in yourin your life, whether it be your
spouse or a really good friendor something else.
That can be really motivating.

Jordan (29:20):
So and you have a record of it.

Alban (29:22):
Yeah that's true.
Uh, we had another one onReddit apex Andrea uh says they
felt super connected to theirmotorports podcast when they
meet listeners at races and itfeels like meeting up with
longtime friends.
This one's really good too.
I read a book about a guy whoran a motorcycle repair shop and
he said his favorite thing waslike going on motorcycle rides

(29:45):
and seeing somebody wearing theshirt from his shop and he felt
like so much part of a communityand he like validated all the
work he was doing.
And that's like so much part ofa community and he like
validated all the work he wasdoing.
And that's what this reminds meof.
Like you're going in, you'remeeting listeners at races and
people who, like they get you,they know so much about you.
That's maybe that's how we feelat Podfest, you know, talking
to the cycling men of leisure, Iwas like, oh man, you get a lot

(30:08):
about us already because you'velistened to so many of these
episodes and you know it feelslike friends that you've known
for a long time yeah, that'salways such a cool feeling when
you meet somebody and you'retalking and then they bring up
something about you that, likeyou didn't say.

Jordan (30:23):
I'm trying to remember where we were at.
It was like a pod fest, I thinkwe were talking to some
buzzcast listeners and they werelike, I mean, like Jordan's
house is haunted.
And I was just like, oh my gosh, it's crazy.
It's just like such a funfeeling and I just had an
instant connection with themLike, yes, you are my people.

Kevin (30:42):
It's a good way, especially for introverts, to
share a lot about themselveswith a lot of people all at once
, because I can tell you there's, if you listen to the show and
then we ever meet in person, youwill know a lot about me that I
would never tell you.
It's true If we were in reallife standing together.

Alban (30:55):
Because sometimes when you talk about yourself, you're
like, oh, everything I'm sayingsounds so self-aggrandizing,
Like I'm trying to project aversion of myself and make you
think highly of me.
But something about on thepodcast I'm just kind of
chatting with Kevin and you'relike, oh, you're doing this race
, oh, yeah, I'm doing this raceand I it moves on out of my
brain.
And then we went to podfest andlike four different people were

(31:17):
like oh, tell me about likeyour 50 K you did in the woods.
Oh yeah, I'm like, oh yeah, I'vehad now more conversations
about that with buzzcastlisteners than other people in
my life, cause I don't know.
To me it's like a weird thingto go and be like, hey, let me
do a big recap of what this racewas like with random people in
my life, but I shared it just onthe podcast and made it into a

(31:40):
post show, and then you end upchatting with people in real
life and you're like, oh, thisis really nice.

Kevin (31:45):
Have you ever done anything?
Jordan or Alban either one ofyou answer this question.
Have you ever done anythinglike, specifically because you
were motivated to do it, becauseyou wanted to share about it on
the podcast?

Jordan (31:53):
No.

Kevin (31:54):
I wonder if that could be our next challenge.
It's okay.

Jordan (31:59):
So there's this.
Okay, Somebody's gettingexcited.

Alban (32:01):
There's this great show called Nathan For you.
Oh gosh, that's too much for me.
Jordan, oh, it's so good.

Jordan (32:05):
Yeah.
So there's this episode wherehe is invited to go on a talk
show and he figures out thatthere is a formula to all of the
best talk show interviews theguests have like a story and it
has to have like this majorpayoff.
But he doesn't want to be aliar and so he has to somehow

(32:25):
make this story happen.
And so he goes through all ofthe motions of like hiring
people to be in certain placesat certain times and he like
fabricates a story and gets likearrested.
And then he has like this thingand he just arranges this whole
thing to happen.
So he has photographic evidenceof it on the talk show.
And then he actually went onthese talk shows, like Jimmy

(32:47):
Kimmel and I think Fallon too,and he actually did the story.
And so you're watching andyou're like oh it's crazy.
And then the episode comes outand you find out that the whole
thing was fabricated.
So I feel like you're proposingthat we do this for the next
episode.

Alban (33:03):
Yeah, what are we supposed to do?
What kind of things would?

Kevin (33:05):
qualify, kevin?
Well, I was just thinking youwere invited by your brother or
somebody to do this 50k run inthe mountains, right, yeah, okay
.
And so that happened.
But then you shared about itand then people were interested
enough that they wanted tofollow up.
Like we got some fan mail aboutlike how did you do?
Like I didn't hear anything inthe next episode.
Did you survive?
And?
And the people at theconference showed up and like
does that ever motivate you tobe like oh, maybe I should think

(33:26):
of something else fun to bedoing because people are
interested in it.
Like you find any motivation inthat to do other things?

Alban (33:32):
This sounds like the biggest phony I could ever
become, like the person who'slike, oh, I want them.
Like, okay.
So one thing we do at work iswe say what, what did you do
over the weekend?
And sometimes people share,sometimes they don't, but if I
was like, oh, I better go dosomething.
So like I have something toshare, like that makes me feel
like all my skin's crawling, soI don't know if I could do that.

(33:52):
I feel like I'm doing somethingso I can take an Instagram
photo of me drinking my smoothieto post online or something.

Kevin (33:58):
Yeah, I think that's one lens to look at it through.
I just don't, you know.
I know you're not that type ofperson, so I just didn't know if
there was a more positive wayto look at it.
Like I had fun doing that race.
People are also interested indoing it.
Like I like looking forward tothe next challenge that comes my
way so that those same peoplethat were interested in it I
could share it with them again.

Alban (34:16):
What if it was listener directed?
What if you tried to be likeall right, one of the ways we're
going to build community.

Kevin (34:22):
You're setting yourself up for massive pain.

Alban (34:26):
What if one of the ways we built community was we're
like hey, what things would youtell us to do?
And someone writes in're likehey, what things would you tell
us to do?
And someone writes in they'relike, yeah, I really think Kevin
should go to an improv class.
No, not gonna happen.
Not gonna happen.
Someone's probably gonna writein now, Like give us some ideas
of stuff to do, oh, my gosh.
What we always do is we come upwith things that are like we're

(34:47):
like I'm getting outside of mycomfort zone, but it we're like
I'm getting outside of mycomfort zone, but it's like the
minimal amount you can getoutside of your comfort zone.
I'm like I'm getting outside ofmy comfort zone.
I'm going to go run a racewithout my iPod.
Like, give me a break.

Jordan (34:59):
Another message we got from Mike from the Quivercast,
and the Stinky Booties wrotethat the connections he makes
keeps him going and he says somedays I'm over it.
Then I do an interview and editand release it.
Then I do an interview and editand release it and my headspace
changes.
I truly love podcasting, eventhough sometimes it's not always
fun.
I relate to this a lot.
There's sometimes that I willthink you know what I didn't do
quite as well with this episodeas I thought.

(35:21):
And then once I get into theediting booth and I finish it
and I go, I'm really proud ofthis.
It kind of refuels me as well.
So I understand that.
And then we got another messagefrom cycling men of leisure
saying that when they meetpeople in public who can
specifically recite like wordfor word a segment of the show,
it definitely feels like amorale booster.

(35:42):
And I think that that's verysimilar to what we were talking
about with apex Andrea'sresponse about like meeting
people and they say somethingfrom the podcast.

Kevin (35:49):
Yeah, what an achievement .
I don't know that I've ever metanybody who's quoted us in
person.
Have you guys?
I don't think so.
What a great achievement.
You guys must drop someknowledge.

Jordan (35:59):
Seriously, people are committed to memory.
Yeah, for people to recite itto you, that'd be so cool.
I don't know what you would sayfor us.

Kevin (36:08):
That's the problem.
We have nothing worth repeating.

Jordan (36:10):
We have nothing good, All right.
So let's move on to our finaltheme purpose and mission driven
work.
This one was so cool to see andit was actually a little bit
unexpected, I don't know why.
I should have assumed that wehad a lot of podcasters doing
very important work.
So the first one that I reallywant to highlight here is
sparkling D's health podcast.

(36:32):
She said that it's rooted inher life-saving journey toward
holistic wellness after beinggiven just six months to live.
And she hopes to bring othersthe same knowledge to help them.
I did not know this about D.

Alban (36:44):
Yeah, I feel like there's a lot more to the story now.
I've known D for a long time.
So yeah, d we need to come, ormaybe we need to go listen to
some episodes and hear the fullstory.

Jordan (36:53):
Yeah, I think so.

Alban (36:55):
Sins and Survivors podcast wrote in and said
they're committed to raisingawareness about domestic
violence, missing persons andunsolved cases.
The victim's families keep themmotivated.

Jordan (37:05):
I mean that's important work.
This is an interesting one fromTom Raftery.
He says he uses his podcast tomake the world a better place.
Podcasting about climate changegives him a sense of agency
because he can concentrate onthe stories of good being done
to combat it, and I love that.
I love that you know you'retaking something that you feel
like you don't have a lot ofcontrol over and, in your own

(37:27):
way, putting a little bit ofcontrol on it.

Alban (37:29):
Yeah, it's not really healthy to just be constantly
reading like, oh, here's somereally anxiety inducing news.

Jordan (37:37):
Yeah.

Alban (37:37):
And I think there's a lot of kind of climate stuff that
is just hey, why don't you getreally scared about the future?
And both of Tom's podcasts arehere are the positive things
that people are doing, thingsyou could be getting involved in
and how you could help clean upyour company's logistics, or
here's some new tech, and it'sthe positive version of it.

(37:59):
It's the what can you do, notpositive as in good news,
positive as in it's actionable,versus just consuming bad news
statistics all the time.

Kevin (38:08):
A listener from Atlanta, georgia, wrote in and shared how
one episode prompted alistener's daughter to get
tested for sickle cell disease,potentially saving her life.
Whoa, yeah, wow.

Jordan (38:19):
How crazy would that be to get a message from somebody
saying like hey, I listened toyour episode and it made me
think I need to get my daughtertested and she actually has like
the genetic marker for this, sothank you.
I don't know, I can't evenimagine what that would feel
like.

Kevin (38:34):
I mean talk about having a real impact.
That's amazing.
Thank you for sharing that.
These are super motivationalthings and I wonder how many
people think to share theirmotivations, like back with the
audience or back with the sourceof the motivation, because
sometimes it can feel like thinkabout if you're the person who
got the email that said Ilistened to your episode and
then I had my daughter testedand it potentially saved your
life Like thank you so much, Idon't know.

(38:55):
It just might feel a little bitlike oh, that was such an
encouraging email and then I goon with my podcast and just do
the next episode.

Jordan (39:01):
Yeah.

Kevin (39:01):
As opposed to sharing that story back with your
audience.
And Albin and I talk about thislike, how do we share that back
in a way that's not like justpatting ourselves on the back?
Nobody wants to be that type ofperson that's like, oh, I'm

(39:22):
giving myself a clap, I'm, youknow, congratulating myself, but
there are ways to do it.
It just sometimes it takes alittle bit of effort to be like
how would I share that story ina way that's not all about me,
it's really celebrating them.
But it's good for people toknow that that feedback helps
keep you motivated to keep doingstuff like this.
That's having an impact onother people and could
potentially have an impact onthem.

(39:42):
And so, taking the time tofigure out how to share that in
a way that feels good to you,that doesn't feel cringy, that
doesn't feel it's like, you know, I'm giving myself an award,
whatever that is for you, I justencourage you to take the time
to figure it out and then try todo it as much as possible.

Alban (39:57):
We did this on the YouTube channel, so the first
video Kelvin made.
Somebody, left a comment andwas just like I'm so glad you're
back.
I love the new set, Good to seeyou making videos again.
And Kelvin was like I reallywant to put this comment in the
end screen.

Jordan (40:10):
Yeah.

Alban (40:11):
And so he wrote like hey, thank you so much for the
comment, this is what keeps usgoing, or something like that.
And then I noticed the nextvideo had way more comments and
I think it's because people sawlike, oh, the comment doesn't
just go out to nobody.
It landed with the guy who madethe video so much that he put
it in the end screen of thevideo, and so then they're like

(40:34):
oh well, if it means that muchto him.
Yeah, I really enjoyed thisvideo too.
I learned something.
Here's what I learned.
And then they go and type it inand there's just like that's why
I love fan mail.
People write in, you get themessage, you share it with your
audience and then everyonerealizes you're a real podcaster
, there is a real community andwe're all in this together and
probably, if you've listened tothe show for a while, there's

(40:56):
already like 10 people who writein.
You know, you know Barnabasfrom Kid Code podcast, you know
Tom Raftery and you know D andyou know the cycling men of
leisure and like you're like oh,I recognize some of these names
because they're part of thecommunity of people who write in
.

Jordan (41:10):
Yeah, yeah, and you have to put it out there too.
I mean, sometimes we just hopethat people are going to write
into us, like they're going tofind that link in the show notes
and send us the text message,but sometimes you really just
need to put the call to actionout there like somewhere in your
podcast.
Just let people know like, hey,you can reach out to me this
way.
Let me know if this helped you,let me know if you want more of

(41:32):
this kind of content and justput it out there that you would
like to hear from your listenerstoo.
Don't just wait for them tocome to you.

Alban (41:43):
So I was over on Substack and I found this post.
Somebody had posted this.
It was called Small PPodcasting and this is such a
short post.
Highly recommend it to people.
Go check it out.
But it's a woman talking aboutpodcasting and shares this story
.
Her husband is a Mormon and hisbest friends are all Mormon and

(42:04):
they all went and did theirmission at the same time.
And they were only allowed touse technology for an hour a
week, and so they're allthinking, if we're doing this
for a couple of years, we'regoing to be pretty separated.
You know, we can't communicateall that much, and so what they
all did was they would,throughout the week, just use a

(42:24):
little voice recorder and kindof like record some stuff about
what was going on in theirmission, and during their one
hour a week of using thecomputer they'd upload it as a
podcast for each other.
And she mentioned, like youknow, after that they all stay
really connected and thoughtthat is a cool story about how
podcasting kept people connected.
And I first really fell in lovewith podcasting when I was

(42:48):
living in Haiti and I'm teachingschool and I'm kind of in the
same boat one hour a week ofinternet and I would listen to
all these podcasts and feel likemuch more connected.
So then this paragraph or twoparagraphs I thought were just
brilliant.
So let me read this.
I often see memes about howeverybody has a podcast.
Now, the underlying messageseems to be that having a

(43:09):
podcast is overdone or perhapssomething that only people with
big egos pursue.
But I believe in small Ppodcasting.
I think podcasting, likeblogging, will become
increasingly mainstream.
It should be completely normalto have a podcast intended for a
small audience or just for youand your friends.
Having a podcast isn'timplicitly claiming superiority

(43:32):
or aspiring to fame.
Instead, it's simply a newmedium that we as a society have
yet to fully utilize.
In the same way that writingwas once restricted to highly
educated elites, speaking andcreating audio is no longer
relegated to radio jockeys, andnow we're just beginning to see
how audio will be used in thelong term.

Kevin (43:52):
Well, that's a fresh take .

Alban (43:53):
I like it.
I resonate with that.
Everyone has a podcast thing somuch.
It kind of is like that'sactually the joke from all those
SNL skits we talked about,Kevin it is.
Yeah, it's like theembarrassing thing about having

(44:14):
a podcast is, if you have apodcast, you're saying I'm on my
way to being a superstar, youknow, and it's like the friend
who gets a minor role in acommercial and then moves to LA
or something to like, become anactor, and it's a little bit
embarrassing and that's what itfeels like it was if you say
starting a podcast but it shouldbe normal, Like I'm just
sharing about my life to a smallaudience.
And it reminded me when theinternet was new.
You know, I'm thinking likeearly nineties.

(44:37):
People wrote blogs and they justwrote it and there was no
expectation people were going toread it unless you gave them
the URL and said go read what Iwrote.
And people had like hitcounters, because even a few
people landing on the page was abig deal and they'd be like oh,
I got my, I got.
Someone came to the page and itwent up a couple of points and
then something happened when wegot all these algorithms and we

(44:59):
got social media and we gotsearch engines, that as soon as
we realized like, oh, there isthe potential for millions of
people to watch and view andread and engage and click and
share and like, as soon asmillions of people could do it,
the implication was that wasactually the goal all along, and
I don't think that was the goalall along.
The goal was you can share, butthat doesn't mean the only

(45:23):
valuable level of sharing isworldwide broadcast level of
sharing.

Jordan (45:28):
There's power in the intimacy of podcasts.
Her story reminds me of thepeople that do like the family
newsletters and I love that theytook that put it in audio form,
because it's so much easier tojust record and then upload the
audio file and send it out thatway, distribute it that way,
than to like type up anewsletter and make sure you
have the photos attached and allthis different stuff.

(45:50):
And a lot of companies arestarting to do this.
They're doing these likeinternal organization podcasts.
You have schools doing this,there's teachers creating
podcasts for their students andcolleges and all these different
churches.
And that's the thing is is justthere's so much power and
purpose in these smallerpodcasts that are just meant to
be for like a private group.

Kevin (46:11):
The sentiment that really annoys me in some of the I
don't know some of the jokes orwhatever that get made around
podcasting is, if you hear likesomebody has a podcast, then
there's some people who willmake a joke about, like, well,
you must really think prettyhighly of yourself if you're
going to, you know, get aroundwith your bros and share bro
science and everybody in theworld wants to hear all this

(46:32):
garbage and you, you know likeyou're so, but that's not at all
that that that completelymisses.
I think the spirit ofpodcasting that this article
that you shared, Alban, reallytouches on, which is it's an
opportunity to create media.
That's not for everybody, right, it's not for you, like, if you
hear that and you're repulsedby it or you, it's something

(46:55):
about it doesn't hit, or I don'tlike it, or that's not the type
of personality Great, it doesthat.
That's what's wonderful aboutpodcasting.
It's opt in which I mentioned alittle earlier in the episode.
It doesn't have to be for you,and you're right when you say,
like blogging didn't carry thatsame level of stigma.
If somebody 20 years ago said,oh yeah, I have a blog, like,
yeah, if you want to check itout here, it is Like you

(47:16):
wouldn't be like oh well, theymust have a very high opinion of
themselves.
If they write a blog, you'rejust like oh, that's cool, yeah,
I might check it out.
I might not, but for somereason, podcasting as a
punchline to certain jokes haskind of become like this A lot
of people do podcasts are idiots, so if you do a podcast, you
might be an idiot too.

Alban (47:36):
I really do not like that at all In a way that doesn't
land as much for likeinfluencers, which is funny.
Like influencers, the point isto become influential and to
direct, you know, trends and tomake money off of kind of
recommending types of stuff.
And I don't hear maybe it'sbecause we're in the podcasting

(47:57):
world I hear the podcast joke alot more than the YouTuber joke
or the Instagram influencer jokeand it's weird because
podcasting the numbers are somuch smaller and we know that
they're smaller and people whoare drawn to podcasting are the
same people drawn to little Bblogging.
And then for some reason, we'relike making jokes.

(48:20):
They're like, ah, it's kind ofpointless.
Oh, you're trying to make thisshow.
You think everyone should listento this.
No, I actually think like only45 people listen to this and
that's like a good number.
It's really not intended foreverybody to love it.
There's times, like wherepeople will not be in the target
market for something andthey'll go.
Man, I don't think anyone wouldlike that.

(48:41):
No, you don't like it.
That's good.
That's like making a decision,having taste, discernment that's
good.
Step two, after you'vediscerned, this isn't for me, is
going okay and moving on.

Jordan (48:56):
Don't leave a review, just walk away.

Alban (48:59):
There's like an infinite supply of stuff online and there
are writers out there that youwill love everything they write.
Go find those people.
You'll find those podcasts thatconnect right to something
special in you.
Let the stuff go that you'relike, oh, this is a bunch of
people talking about somethingthat doesn't land for me and I
find their voices annoying andthe stuff they bring up.

(49:22):
They only half read the articleand like it doesn't make any
sense and, oh great, they'redrink, busting out the beers
again.
If you don't like it, it's over.
You owe them nothing it.

Jordan (49:38):
It's over.
You owe them nothing, all right, so let's get into sound off
First up.
We have a family message sayingjust want to let you all know
how much I look forward tolistening to a new buzzcast
every week.
Listening has become part of mySaturday routine.
I enjoy the banter and reallyconnect with your philosophy
about podcasting.
Keep up the great work and keeppodcasting.
I love that, thank you.

Alban (49:53):
That's like a save in the file folder.

Jordan (49:56):
We immediately pinned that to the website.
Like I went to pin it and youguys already pinned it, so yeah,
that was one that came out.

Kevin (50:02):
I pinned it, I read it, pinned it.
That was great.

Alban (50:07):
David from no Stroke Podcast reached out and said if
you do get a White House presspass, make sure you ask a
question about all of yourlisteners tuning in from around
the Gulf of Mexico.
See how that goes over.

Kevin (50:21):
We are Florida people.
We are Florida people, so thathits home Like.
That's like too close to homefor us to make the joke about
the name of a large body ofwater that we live right next to
, kevin.

Alban (50:31):
Let me ask you this Like what I've grown up, I've lived
almost all of my life in twoplaces, texas and Florida.
What is the body of waterbetween those called the Gulf,
the?

Kevin (50:41):
Gulf.
That is what everyone calls it.
Nobody calls it the Gulf ofanything, it's just called the
Gulf.

Jordan (50:46):
Interesting.

Alban (50:47):
I know maps say Gulf of Mexico and now they say Gulf of
America in some maps, but it'sjust called the Gulf Yep and
mostly you would just say, likethe beach, and it's the Gulf
coast.
That's which beach we're goingto.

Kevin (51:01):
Yep.
And if you live in Orlando andyou say I'm going to the beach,
people say were you hitting theGulf or the ocean?
That's what they say.
Like nobody names the bodies ofwater, they just say Gulf or
ocean and everyone who's smartsays Gulf because the water is
much more beautiful over there.

Jordan (51:13):
It's like the Cher or Beyonce of bodies of water the
Gulf.

Kevin (51:18):
I think I'm missing this connection.
I'm missing the joke too.

Jordan (51:20):
You're missing the joke.

Kevin (51:21):
Oh, come on the Beyonce of.

Alban (51:22):
America.

Kevin (51:24):
No, yeah.

Jordan (51:25):
It's like those stars that have just like one name.

Kevin (51:28):
Oh yeah, like Prince.

Jordan (51:29):
Yeah, prince.

Alban (51:30):
Yeah, it's just funny to me that it's a controversy that
is not around the people wholive around this body of water
that are interested in it.
It's always the joke is alwaysfrom people who are live far
away and are like, oh, I justlook at the map and I read it
and I'm sure people who livearound you know Lake Superior
have different names for LakeSuperior the Supa.

Kevin (51:51):
Let's go swimming in the Supa, that's what I'm going.

Jordan (51:56):
We're going to have somebody write into us and be
like that is nice yeah we'regoing to take a dip in the Supa.

Alban (52:03):
David also said PS.
I loved your joke about apodcaster getting a chance to
play in the Super Bowl.
That was a good joke.

Jordan (52:09):
That was really funny.
Okay, and we also got feedbackfrom Parksville.
Would appreciate use of thechapters feature for your
podcast.
Yeah, what's?

Kevin (52:20):
up with that, Jordan.

Jordan (52:21):
I went and looked.
We use chapters, we havechapters.

Kevin (52:24):
Maybe not the quick cast last week didn't have a chapter.

Jordan (52:27):
Yeah, but they're so quick, you don't need chapters,
right.

Kevin (52:30):
Not according to Parksville.

Jordan (52:33):
We appreciate them.
I'm sorry.

Kevin (52:35):
All right, parksville, listen up.
If you're looking at a longerepisode and doesn't have
chapters, right back on fan mailor hit our support and let us
know what app you're using.
Let's try to figure that out,because we do use chapters, but
if it was just that quick castfrom last week, yeah, the short
episodes, one topic, 10 minutes.
Everybody knows the rules nochapters all right.

Jordan (52:53):
We got couple of responses from our episode about
video casting.
The first is from Steven Robles.
He understands that major showslike SmartList are skipping
video, but many of those showsdon't need growth strategies
because they're often celebritydriven or have hosts with
built-in audiences from otherplatforms.
That's fair.
And he also said that for newer, growing shows you can stay

(53:14):
audio only but you're missingout on half the audience.
Primary Tech launched a yearago and we've had 250,000 audio
downloads and 250,000 videoviews.
Now, to be fair, let's hitpause here.

Kevin (53:27):
It's hard to debate in a format like this, because Steven
is a very smart guy and Irespect a lot of his views and I
think he would say the samething about us.
But it's like this async debate, like, yeah, I'm going to make
a good argument, a good point,and then we're going to refute
some of that stuff, and then hemight like it's just, it's just
too disjointed.

Alban (53:45):
Well, I had some of this debate with Steven over text, so
is it?
Is it okay if I?

Kevin (54:00):
are we going to read the text thread.
Then he said let me just pointout a couple of things that I
don't really care for in the waythat he worded it, which is
these podcasts are celebritydriven and they have hosts with
built in audiences from otherplatforms and he uses that to
justify the statement of thatthese big shows don't need
growth strategies.
I would say there's a lot ofother podcasts that don't need
growth strategies.
Like we just got done talkingabout this article about like
small P podcasting.

(54:21):
There's a lot of shows thatpeople are just doing it and the
whole episode we covered allthese motivations that really
had nothing to do with growth.
Like people are finding a lotof motivation from other sources
than just their numbers goingup.

Jordan (54:32):
Yeah.

Kevin (54:32):
So that's who we're talking to, stephen, and I agree
that if you're primarilyworking with customers who are
just interested in growing thenumbers, video should probably
be a part of that strategy.
We've never said it's not agood idea for growth strategy.
I'm just saying that growthstrategy and a lot of growth
strategies often rob you of thejoys of podcasting, and that's
what we're passionate about.

Alban (54:52):
Yeah, I think I texted Stephen back when he sent this
to me and I was like you'reforgetting, though, like you're
really good at tech.
He has a show called primarytech.
He reviews every piece of Appleequipment within like four
hours of it coming out, likehe's not getting early access.
Steven is like top 0.1% higherthan that of tech savvy people

(55:14):
in the world and I think for himadding a video component is
almost no additional work andhe's doing a great job with it
because he's taken all the timeto learn everything and set it
up.
The people that I'm trying totalk to are stressed out about
getting the USBs plugged incorrectly.
They're just not tech savvy.

(55:34):
They're experts in other things, and the real hurdle we're
trying to get over is the firstone.
Can I get over how my voicesounds and can I get this tech
set up and can I just get thisfirst episode out?
If all that happens and youhave a really good run of
podcasting or a good run ofblogging or whatever it may be,

(55:54):
and then you want to add on anadditional thing, then I say go
for it.
The downside I'm trying toarticulate is so many people are
overwhelmed by video.
They're overwhelmed by thesocial media strategy, and so
when we add that on as a must doto be successful, then
everybody goes.
You know what I'm going to dois nothing.

(56:15):
And then they don't start thepodcast, but they also don't
start the video version and theynever do the social stuff.
They just do nothing and theyscroll tiktok all day and I'm
really hoping that more peoplewill engage with anything and
create anything by limiting itand saying, hey, if it's small b
blogging, if it's justpodcasting for 30 people so that

(56:38):
people are getting treated forsickle cell disease, if it's any
of the number of things wetalked about in this episode and
you do that, that's good.
You shrink what you have to doso that people feel empowered to
accomplish it.
If they later on expand it andsay what I really want is growth
and half a million downloads orviews, then I think Stevens is

(57:00):
the right way to do it.

Kevin (57:02):
But I'll double down on that, Alban, like what you just
said.
I will double down on it.
That what I really really,really love about podcasting and
I want to help facilitate andmake sure the world has access
to, for as long as I canpossibly be a part of what's
happening in podcasting is thatthe small P podcasting concept.
I get it.
There's always going to be atop hundred shows.
There's always going to be atop 500 shows.

(57:22):
There's always going to bepeople who are doing like
high-end video productions andsome of the numbers that Steven
just quoted in this thing aboutgetting 250,000 downloads on
audio and 250,000 downloads onvideo Great, not who.
I'm super excited aboutenabling and getting into
podcasting.
I am super excited about theperson who's like, hey, would a
podcast help me stay connectedwhen I'm doing missions, work

(57:44):
with my friends and family, andI say, yeah, it absolutely would
.
It's great for that and you'dmaybe could reach a few people
beyond that too.
That could have life changingor it could impact their lives
in an amazing way, and that'swhat's so exciting and I love
about podcasting.
I'm not interested at all Ifsomebody said, hey, the smart
list guys want to have a meetingwith you because they want to
talk about like how buzzword Idon't care, I know it's a stupid

(58:05):
business decision.
I would not get excited aboutthat meeting, I just wouldn't.
But I do get excited to go topodcast conferences and talk
with people who are just likeyou and me and are just like
interested in podcasting becausethey're passionate about
something, they want to sharesomething, they want to teach
something, they want to reach acertain amount of people.
That, I think, is great andonce in a while, technology
helps enable these things.
Blogging was a huge one andpodcasting is one.

(58:26):
People used to create webpages.
So much of that stuff isgetting eaten up by these large
platforms and the Facebooknewsfeed and the YouTubes and
all the other stuff, andpodcasting is still standing
strong and it's a platform forindependent creators and it's
low barrier of entry and it'sexciting and it's fun and it's
convenient and it's all thatstuff.
And why do I push back on video?

(58:46):
Because you're puttingsomething in the way of that
being fun and it's potential tolike burn them out.
That frustrates me.
I don't like it because I'mpassionate about people having
access to this stuff and itbeing more life-giving than
life-sucking.
So that's all.
Not mad at you, just adifferent opinion.

Alban (59:05):
That's all.
Michelle from New CreationMeditations, aka Rise and Rain,
reached out as well.
Okay, guys, thank you for the30 plus minute rant about why
video is unnecessary inpodcasting.

Kevin (59:20):
You just got a few more minutes.

Alban (59:26):
You just took about five years worth of weight off my
shoulders and gave me thepermission to simplify and focus
on what I love most aboutpodcasting the audio.
This is probably not bestpractice, but I also ditched my
podcast socials too.

Kevin (59:36):
Good for you, it's too, much work hey podcast socials
too Good for you, it's too muchwork.
Hey, we did it too Good for you.
We run a big old podcastingcompany and Alban ditched all
the socials a couple of weeksago.

Alban (59:44):
I can attest probably not best practice, but it wasn't
helping us do what we wanted todo, which was invest in really
high quality guides and podcasts, and so we were just saying,
hey, let's simplify on what wethink is really good.

(01:00:05):
Actually, same advice for videois going to be the same advice
I'm giving myself for social.
At some point, if you thinkthis is what would be fun and we
could do a good job and itwould be enjoyable, then we
could add it on.
We didn't make some moralisticwe're leaving social media
because it's terrible.
We'll never come back.
It was a we're not loving whatwe're doing and we're really
loving the podcasting stuff andright now we don't feel like
we're doing both great, so let'sfocus on the one we want to do

(01:00:27):
a great job at.

Jordan (01:00:28):
I'd also like to point out that this is a new milestone
for us, where we have finallybeen thanked for long rants on
the podcast, where we havefinally been thanked for long
rants on the podcast.
All right, so we've kind ofestablished our next sound off
question earlier in the episode,but we want you to write in and
challenge us to do somethingsolely for the purpose of

(01:00:51):
discussing it on the podcast.

Alban (01:00:56):
Steven Robles is texting right now.
Create a video version.
Video version he got us withthis one weird hack.

Jordan (01:01:06):
And I'm not saying that we have to do it, but maybe
we'll pick something.
Could be fun.

Kevin (01:01:10):
Yeah, let's just leave it wide open too, like you could
challenge something that allthree of us have to do together,
or just call out an individual,like you want Jordan to do
something specific.

Alban (01:01:18):
Oh, I would say definitely call out an
individual.
That'll make it way worse.

Kevin (01:01:23):
That'd be fun.
Hopefully we get a bunch andthen we can choose the least
painful of the group.

Jordan (01:01:27):
Absolutely.
Oh, I cannot wait to see this.
Okay, so to send in yourresponses, tap the text of the
show link in the show notes andlet us know what you want us to
do.
Thanks for listening and keeppodcasting.

Alban (01:01:43):
So I got a text from you, kevin, this weekend.
Yeah, you know mostly you don'ttext me about work over the
weekend I don't think you everdo but you texted me.
You needed recommendations forAthens.

Kevin (01:01:53):
Yes, texts are where I put the personal stuff, and the
work stuff goes into Basecamp.
So if you get a text from meit's not work related.

Alban (01:02:02):
Well, I'd figured that out over the course of the last
11 years.

Kevin (01:02:05):
That's what I tell the HR people anyway.
Oh, is that a text?
I can't bring that back to work.
So you were in Athens thisweekend I was in Athens for a
really, really cool event.
I've never been before, um, butit was the sec Southeastern
conference swim championships.

Jordan (01:02:25):
Okay, so Athens, georgia , we're not.

Kevin (01:02:27):
Athens, Georgia, not Greece.

Jordan (01:02:29):
I don't know.

Kevin (01:02:31):
Yes, athens, georgia and very cool town.
Alban, you did law school there.
Is that right yeah.

Alban (01:02:37):
I went to law school in Georgia and really like going to
Athens and seeing it one day.
And then I went and sawUniversity of Florida, I think
right before, and I was like, oh, I want to be here, I want to
be at.

Kevin (01:02:50):
Albin's.
Yeah, my wife and I both wentto University of Florida and so
as we were driving around Athenswe were like, oh, this is very
different, like in a verypositive way.
University of Florida, greatschool, cool environment, at
least for us.
Nobody puts it on the top listof most beautiful campuses or
anything.
Athens, on the other end ofthat spectrum for sure.

(01:03:11):
Beautiful campus, beautifulcity, cool little like downtown
college bar scene area, verycompact, so like you don't need
a car anyway.
Yeah, super impressed.
But I'm glad you bring that upbecause it also reminds me that
I got to take this other journey.
I haven't talked about it in afew years, but I think I talked
a couple of years ago about that.
I got to see Katie Ledecky swima world record or they call it

(01:03:35):
a U S record, but it really is aworld record in the mile event.
And so at this swim meet that Iwas at, sec championships, huge
swim conference they're likeone of, if not the fastest
conferences in all of NCAAswimming.
And so Florida is there, texasis there, tennessee is there.
These are like huge, like theyare always in the top five and
they're all swimming together atthe sec championships.

(01:03:55):
And I got to see some NCAArecords get set.
Really Multiple NCAA recordsgot set, which is amazing, and
let me catch anybody up who'snot aware.
But I decided a couple of yearsago after seeing Katie Ledecky
do that swim, that like I'm likewhat a cool thing to see.
The greatest, possibly thegreatest of all time, but like
the greatest of at least ourtime.

(01:04:16):
People do whatever it is thatthey're doing, and so, whether
it be a musician who's like atthe height of their career
performing, or an athlete at theheight of their career like
playing their sport or whatever,I was like any opportunity I
have to seek these things out.
I want to try to do it as muchas possible.
Not to the point where I'mgoing to like sacrifice time
with my family or like throw allmy life savings into way, like

(01:04:37):
into chasing athletes around theworld.
Yeah, I'm not going to.
I'm certainly not going to passon any opportunities to do this
, and so this wasn't even like.
This was an ancillary goal,because my daughter swims at
college and so we're going tosee her primarily.
But while we were there, we gotto see these other amazing
athletes do amazing things LikeI think the university of

(01:04:58):
Florida swim team beat the NCAArecord in a 400 relay event by
almost two seconds, which islike a stupid way to beat a
record and swim.
Like usually swim records forthings like under, like 400 and
unders are usually beat byhundreds of a second.
Like the increments are so tinyand for them to beat it by
almost two seconds by the timethey're like halfway through the

(01:05:19):
race, everyone in the crowdknew like this is a new record.
Like they are so far ahead.
Like even if they stop swimmingat this point and start again,
they'll still beat it.
Like it was amazing and to seethese young people like 18, 19,
20 years old.
One of the anchor leg in thatswim event was a freshman.
Can you imagine being 18?

Jordan (01:05:37):
years old.
Are you serious yeah?

Kevin (01:05:39):
They're so young and so amazing.

Jordan (01:05:41):
It makes you wonder what the next generation is going to
be like.
It's just going to be crazy.
Do you ever think about goingback in time and setting a world
record in the 20s?
I could set a world record inthe 20s.

Kevin (01:05:52):
Jordan, I can't believe you said that we have these
conversations all the time,because it's amazing how humans
have evolved to learn how to dothings better and better and
better.

Jordan (01:06:02):
It's crazy.

Kevin (01:06:03):
If you participate especially in sporting stuff.
The times that my high schoolboys now swim would have won
Olympic golds in the 50s and 60s.
Really, isn't that crazy.

Jordan (01:06:14):
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Kevin (01:06:16):
That's nuts, it's shocking 's, it's mind-blowing.
And for them now they're likeah, there's no big deal.

Alban (01:06:22):
like dude, you were just born in the wrong century if you
were born as great grandfather,as a gold medal hanging in
their house for doing somethingless impressive than your boys
are doing now?

Kevin (01:06:32):
yes, I mean yeah that's pretty, that's that's and what's
really weird about, like sure,um, swimsuit technology and
stuff has gotten better, butmostly it's about the training,
like the way that they dotraining, the amount of time
they invest in training,nutrition and all that and the
sciences behind all that stuff.
But, like, at the end of theday, the water's still water.
You still got to move your butt, you still got to push your
invented better water that helpsyou go faster, and so it really

(01:06:56):
is amazing that, like just bychanging the techniques in which
we practice something, there'sbeen that level of advancement
in this sport.
Anyway, that was my weekend,athens, cool city, and I love
watching people do amazing humanfeats.