Top Podcasters Aren't Bothering With Video—And Neither Should You

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Everywhere we turn, someone’s saying that video is essential for podcast growth. But most of the top podcasters in the world aren’t bothering with video. So why are others being pressured to?

In this episode, we break down the reality behind the video podcasting hype, why platforms and marketers are so desperate to push it, and the reason you shouldn't feel guilty about staying audio-only.

Links mentioned in this episode:

• r/Buzzsprout unique marketing ideas thread
• Spotify music podcast takedowns
• Spotify's Push into Video is Missing Some of the Biggest Podcasts
• Joe Rogan Isn't A Podcast (Unpopular Thoughts about Video and Podcasting)

Sound-Off Question: What keeps you motivated to keep podcasting?

Support the show

Contact Buzzcast

• Send us a text message
• Tweet us at @buzzcastpodcast, @albanbrooke, @kfinn, and @JordanPods

Thanks for listening and Keep Podcasting!

Episode Transcript

Kevin (00:00):
Hey, guess what?
The White House had its firstpodcaster in the press briefing
room.

Jordan (00:06):
Was it you?

Kevin (00:06):
Wasn't us.

Jordan (00:08):
Did we get our pass though?

Kevin (00:10):
Not yet.
I think there must be somethingwrong with my email.
It hasn't shown up yet.

Jordan (00:17):
Some crossed wires, because surely we would have
gotten a press pass.

Alban (00:20):
Yeah, they're like there's the guy who always asks
about Amazon Music they'readding podcasts, now they're not
adding.
Oh, there's the guy who alwaysasks about Amazon Music they're
adding podcasts, now they're notadding podcasts.
What's the plan?
Can the White House look intothis?
They're like sir Mr Finn.
One question per briefing,please.

Kevin (00:35):
I'm sure I could come up with something that would lead
to an executive order.
It doesn't seem to be that hard.
They're cranking out like 20 aday.
Sure, I could do something.

Alban (00:46):
You need to ask about tariffs for Spotify.
Oh, that would be a good one.

Kevin (00:50):
What country are they from?
Again Sweden, sweden, I thinkyeah.

Alban (00:54):
And we've got Apple Music .
Tim Apple runs Apple Music overhere.

Kevin (00:57):
Yeah, let's just put 25% on.
Until they support openpodcasting, let's bring them to
the negotiation table.
Jordan, you found an article onthis.

Alban (01:11):
The White House has received 7,400 requests for new
media passes in the first 24hours.
Yeah, did yours make it in thefirst 24 hours?
I think so, yeah.

Jordan (01:15):
I think we made it in the first 24 hours.
We were part of that 7,400.

Kevin (01:21):
Yeah, I would have been the terrible headline if we
hadn't submitted.
Then it would have had to saylike 7 399 requests yeah, that's
lame glad you pushed over theedge, kevin.

Jordan (01:30):
Yeah welcome back to buzzcast podcast about all
things podcasting from thepeople at buzzsprout.
I'm gonna kick things off herewith a little bit of
housekeeping because we arestill getting.
This is great, this is reallygood.
But we are still gettingsubmissions for the unique

(01:53):
marketing ideas episode that wedid a while back, and so if you
feel like you missed the boat onthat, you can absolutely go to
our Buzzsprout subreddit and wehave a post in there.
I will link to it in the shownotes a thread where you can
comment about your podcast, andwe will give you unique
marketing ideas.
So it will be coming from us,it will be coming from other

(02:14):
members in the Reddit group, butgo ahead and join that and then
we can get that conversationgoing for you.

Alban (02:19):
And I'd encourage other people to jump in there and help
come up with ideas, Cause weall have feelings.
Everybody who's works inpodcasting and listens to
podcasts like you've seen goodmarketing ideas that don't apply
to your show and go through thelist and read a handful.
I went and did a bunch todayand just wrote back to people
and it's a blast, it's so muchfun.
I wrote one and the personwrote back right away and was

(02:40):
like oh, I've implemented thislike 80%, but now I'm seeing
that something you have in therewill make it so much better.
Oh, I just updated it and itwas like you know, took me 20
seconds to write it and she wentand made the change and now
they have a big update.
So I'd love for more people tocome in there and share their
ideas and we'll come up with newmarketing ideas together.

Jordan (03:05):
Have you been seeing that Spotify is doing these
super duper extensive takedownsof podcasts?

Alban (03:11):
Only because you've been posting it to us and sending us
your experience.

Jordan (03:15):
So I vented a little bit in the company chat.

Alban (03:18):
So you had a bunch of shows taken down.

Jordan (03:20):
I had 50.
I had 50 episodes taken down atlike 3 am a couple weeks ago.
A few weeks ago.

Kevin (03:26):
Well, Jordan, maybe you should stop stealing music.
Yeah, that's what.

Alban (03:30):
I was about to say.

Jordan (03:31):
No, I pay for my licensing.
I pay hundreds of dollars ayear in licensing so this stings
pretty bad and I actually had alot of other podcasters
reaching out to me saying thatsame is happening with them.
And what all these podcastshave in common is that they have
music bedding in their podcast.
So it might be like an audiodrama or an audio fiction, and

(03:53):
so just having music in yourpodcast, like integrated in your
podcast, seems to be kind oftriggering a bot to remove it.

Kevin (04:00):
And is there a place inside of your Spotify dashboard
, Jordan, that you can say thatyou have a music license?

Jordan (04:06):
I don't think so.
I haven't been able to findthat at all.

Alban (04:09):
That was going to be my question as well, because when
we upload a video to YouTube,you can upload the music license
with it, so that if YouTubegets a copyright infringement
claim against that video, theycan right then adjudicate it.
Oh no, looks like thereactually is a purchase license
for it.
And if you buy music throughsomething like Epidemic Sound,

(04:29):
you can put in this is ourYouTube channel, because this is
what we do.
We get music from them and wesay this is the YouTube channel
and they go okay, we will neverissue a claim against this
channel because you've licensedit with us and we see that
you're paying it.
This just feels like a prettybad experience.
A lot of people probably hadmusic podcasts when Spotify was

(04:50):
creating music podcasts.
They ended up putting that awayand they're not pursuing that
anymore.
But now it seems like everybodykind of got caught up in this
National Music PublishersAssociation bunch of takedowns
and Spotify just started takingall sorts of stuff down.

Jordan (05:04):
Yeah, I think that they were feeling a lot of heat from
the lawsuit, you know, and itwas something to do with.
They were like bundlingaudiobooks with music, with
podcasts, sort of thing, and sothe music industry didn't like
that because they're having toshare income or something.
I didn't fully understand it,but they have issued 2500,500
podcast takedowns, so that's thereasoning for it.

(05:27):
But I really think that Spotify, even though they were kind of
having a little bit of a bravadoabout it in the media and, you
know, just feeling it was alittle bit ridiculous, I feel
like their actions of just kindof like mass deleting episodes
that could potentially infringeupon this seems to say that they
care deeply.

Alban (05:49):
Okay, this makes a lot more sense now the way you said
that Spotify has to pay themusic holders.
They pay them for all thestreams.
So Spotify wants podcasts andaudio books and other stuff to
be more popular because thenthey don't have to pay all the
music holders rights and sothey're like their costs will go

(06:09):
down.
And it's why Spotify has goneso heavy in podcasting and why
now they've gotten into audiobooks and I bet the music rights
holders were okay with it backwhen they were still getting
paid.
With all the music in podcaststhey're like it doesn't really
affect us.
People are on Spotify, we stillmake money.
Until Spotify started saying,well, we don't pay you for any

(06:33):
podcast stuff.
And then they go well, screwthat, we're going to go find any
podcast we can that has anymusic, and we're going to say
it's a violation unless provenotherwise.
And so that probably kicked off.
Everything got way way morestrict in Spotify and I think
that is fair.

Jordan (06:49):
I mean, there are a lot of podcasts out there that just
make playlists, not through theSpotify thing, because they have
.
They have that like music DJthing that they know they killed
that.

Alban (07:01):
They killed that Well yeah, I bet that is part of
what's kicked off all thesestrikes that makes sense.

Jordan (07:06):
Yeah, but I mean other than that.
I mean there are a lot ofpodcasters that do have music
like they try to treat it like aradio station in their podcast
and Spotify is going nah, we'renot messing with that.
But in the meantime thealgorithm is also saying like.
In my email it said videos withlittle or no audible talking
can be removed by our automaticreview process.

Alban (07:28):
Oh, so you're getting caught even more because of your
soft bedtime story voice.

Jordan (07:32):
Yeah, and I just don't think the bot can like
distinguish between me talkingover ambient music and like an
actual song.

Kevin (07:41):
I mean, Spotify needs to do a better job.
They need to allow you to, at aminimum, say that you have
licensed content in there sothat when stuff gets flagged,
they could reach out to you orsomething or give you a
different appeal process thatmaybe gets a closer look by a
human.
But then, like beyond that, Ithink they should do something
like YouTube, like offer APIs onboth sides where you can put in

(08:02):
your Spotify listing at theplace that you license the music
, so that they won't even file aclaim to begin with.
Youtube is kind of crazy theway that they do it.
When you Alban I'm sure you'veseen these emails If you forget
to upload your license to yourmusic, you'll get a email that
says a copyright infringementhas been filed against this
video and therefore we are nowmonetizing it.

(08:24):
But we're paying them insteadof you and so the copyright
holder for the music, like ifany revenue is generated from
that content that you uploaded,they get it, not you, and so
you're highly incented,especially if you're trying to
make any money off of thatcontent that you uploaded to
YouTube to get your licensessquared away.

Jordan (08:40):
That feels like a very positive consequence, though
it's not just like nope, it'sgone, it's erased.

Kevin (08:45):
Yeah, it's kind of smart, right, because the copyright
holder.
They're like yeah, you can takeit down, ok, but nobody's going
to get any benefit if you justtake it down.
So the deal that YouTube isstruck with these license
holders is how about we leave itup, but we pay you instead of
the person who did it?
And it seems to be working likeeveryone is motivated in the

(09:05):
right way.
Yeah, I like that idea.
You're motivated to make sureyour licenses are squared away,
and if you don't, then they'regoing to still get something,
something you mentioned.

Jordan (09:15):
There was Spotify having like a better appeal process,
and so if you do end up gettingone of these takedown emails,
you have to click the appeallink that is in the episode
specific email to fill out anappeal form.
It's not like a huge process.

Alban (09:30):
So when you get 50 of these, when you get 50, you have
to click.

Jordan (09:33):
And I tried kind of playing hardball with them and I
wrote one appeal and I said youtook 50 out, put them back.
And they were like yep, soundsgood, we'll have them back in
the next 24 hours.
And, like now, I have a coupleepisodes back, but some are
still missing.
And then I have these weirdblank episodes kind of hanging
out in my list that have apublished date of like December

(09:55):
31st 1969.
And I don't, I don't knowwhat's going on.
It's a mess.
So I actually wish that I justcopy and pasted every single
appeal instead of trying to playhardball with them and make
them do it.

Alban (10:08):
Jordan, you did a very nice episode for your podcast.
For anyone who doesn't know,jordan has a podcast where she
tells bedtime stories in a very,very calm Jordan voice with
music in the background.
And then you had one and it waslike I didn't put all these
behind a paywall.
I actually they were all takendown by Spotify and I'm working
with their appeals process andlike you're trying to say, okay,

(10:30):
someone was actually asleepwhile they listened to it, but
it was a very calming appeal toSpotify to please put my music
back up.

Jordan (10:38):
It was really funny because I was just like, okay,
how do I not stress my listenersout while letting them know
that there was like a hugetakedown?
And so I did that whole thingwhere it's just like I am going
to get this resolved and, in themeantime, just go back to
another episode and pick outanother bedtime story, have
sweet dreams, bye.
And Priscilla actually wrote meand she's like, oh my gosh,
your dreamful voice explainingthe Spotify takedown is killing

(11:00):
me.
But yeah, I think that's theother thing is just like having
communication with yourlisteners too, and it was really
cool because I got a bunch offan mail from listeners, I got
comments on my Spotify episodeexplain the takedown.
And there was a whole bunch oflove and support from listeners.
So, yeah, I definitely think ifyou have anything like that,

(11:20):
just communicate that, all right.
So in Bloomberg, in thesoundbite newsletter, ashley
Carmen posted a another articleabout Spotify's push into video
podcasting and I feel like therehas been just such a big
pressure for podcasters to moveinto video podcasting and I

(11:43):
think that Ashley Carmenactually calls out the fact that
the people who are doing thispush into video podcasting kind
of have skin in the game, like.
It's on them to make it popular.
It's on them to make it thenext big thing, so that their
companies can benefit from it.

Alban (11:58):
All right.
So the main takeaway from thisarticle is everyone's talking
about how video is so great andAshley Carmen goes through the
top 50 podcasts in the world andgoes how many of them actually
doing video.
Yeah, and she finds, of the top50 shows, these are the shows
with the biggest budgets, thebiggest teams, the most
successful ads, the bestmonetization, the best content.

(12:20):
37 of them of the top 50 aredoing video on YouTube and eight
of them are doing video onSpotify.
The only thing I can take awayfrom this is like the joke has
got to be over now.
It's got to be done.
We've done this so many times.
We've done on this show.
We've talked about it endlessly.
We talk about you've got to dovideo, You've got to do video.

(12:43):
It's over.
Like, well, not us.
We're not saying you got to dovideo, I know, but everyone's
saying it and we keep saying isthat really right?
There's so many downsides tovideo.
Is that really right?
Maybe not, and I sat here sinceI've read this and I've been
trying to put this together intowords with some kind of analogy
, and I think I have it.

Jordan (13:03):
Okay.

Alban (13:04):
Imagine you want to start a coffee house.
You have a coffee shop and yougo online and everyone on
LinkedIn, everyone in the blogposts, everyone who's supposedly
done good coffee shops in thepast, say number one thing
you've got to have is anInstagram.
The number one thing to start acoffee shop is an Instagram.

Kevin (13:20):
I thought you were going to say scones.

Alban (13:24):
Everyone's saying you've got to have an Instagram and
you've got to have cool latteart and you have to have
influencers and you need to bedoing short form video, and
you're getting overwhelmed withall these ideas about Instagram
or else your coffee shop willfail.
But then the Ashley Carmen ofcoffee shops does a report and
says actually, the top 50 coffeeshops in Jacksonville, 37 of

(13:47):
them have Instagram and onlyeight of them are really going
anywhere else besides Instagram.
You know and doing any othersocial media, and you're like
whoa, whoa, whoa I've beenhearing this whole time the only
way I'll ever make any money isif I go and do all of the
social media platforms.
And you spent all this time andthis effort and stress learning

(14:09):
how to do latte art instead offiguring out how to grind coffee
beans and serve people at acounter.
And we would say, of course,that's ridiculous.
You're a coffee shop.
Focus on the coffee shop part.
And then, once that's solvedand you've got a second employee
, then maybe we look at what newmarketing channels do we want
to open up for this coffee shop.

(14:30):
Once we see we're not gettingenough people in the door, we go
let's solve that problem.
Now we have the coffee roastingpart and we have the cups and
we have everything else sorted.
And with podcasting, we havenot even sorted out.
Do we have coffee cups for ourcoffee yet?
Do we have scones?
None of that's been solved andpeople are hearing you've got to
be doing latte art videos.

(14:52):
These are the biggest budgetedpodcasts in the world.
They have the team.
They've got 10, 15 people.
They could hire the smartestvideo editor, the smartest
script writer, the best peopleto do makeup for the podcast.
They're coming up with sets.
They've got everybody there and13 of the 50 go not even worth
it, not even worth the hassle.

(15:14):
And then 42 of the 50 say evenif it is worth it, we're not
going to go upload it tomultiple platforms, we'll just
throw it on the big one, youtube.
So if that's the case, we'redone.
I feel like we should feel nomore stress, no more pressure to
go do video, figure out thepodcast part, figure out the

(15:37):
storytelling and get somecontent and make things.
And if you in yourself go Iwill enjoy this and I want to do
it then you can consider itlater on.
But until that moment happensinside of you, you want to do it
, then you can consider it lateron.
But until that moment happensinside of you, you want to do
the video.
You never have to do it Like Ifeel, like we should all just
feel complete freedom that thisis open.

Jordan (15:53):
Well, and I think that people need to keep in mind that
we're hearing this stuff fromthose who are in the industry.
They're set to make money fromthis.
It's the platform, it's theadvertisers, it's all these
different people And're set tomake money from this.
It's the platform, it's theadvertisers, it's all these
different people, and you haveto keep that in mind, like where
you're getting this information.
So in Spotify's annual revenuereport or whatever, they said

(16:14):
that they had like 6 millionpodcasts on Spotify, 330,000
video podcasts on the platformand 140% jump in video podcast
consumption among the top USshows.
It's just like wild to me thatwe had discussed on the last
episode, second to last episode,that there's only like 400,000

(16:35):
active podcasts.

Alban (16:37):
There's like 440,000 active podcasts and yet we're
hearing from Spotify.
330,000 video podcasts exist onthe platform.

Kevin (16:46):
I think the word podcast is being loosely interpreted.

Jordan (16:49):
Exactly.

Kevin (16:50):
For a nice fluffy press release.
That's probably episodes.
They probably have had 330,000episodes uploaded, I'm guessing.

Jordan (16:58):
I was thinking the exact same thing.
I was like, okay, it's gotta bethis.
But the way that they worded it, they later said episodes like
specified episodes.
So I think that they mean videopodcasts.
However, I know for a fact thatmy daughter will be watching
like YouTube videos likeUnspeakable or Mr Beast on
Spotify, and I feel like thosemust be uploaded as like

(17:20):
podcasts in some way.
It's just.
It's like that article that wasin pod news this morning
talking about how Joe Rogan isin a podcast and how he's
actually just a successful videointerview series.
That also translates well topodcasts and there's, there's
gotta be some sort of likedifferentiation here.

Kevin (17:40):
I liked that article a lot.
I did.
I did read that article thatyou're referencing, jordan buzzy
.
You know clickbaity headlinewith the Joe Rogan not being a
podcast, but the subtitle ofthat article is like unpopular
thoughts about video andpodcasting, which is obviously a
much more accurate title forwhat the article is talking
about.
That article does a really goodjob of explaining the situation

(18:04):
around a video-first show, anaudio-first show, a
multi-platform what do they callit?
Multi-platform strategy is whatthey call it.
There's a lot of good stuff inthinking about the content that
you're creating as amulti-platform strategy and for
most people who probably listento this show, who probably
podcast on Buzzsprout or asimilar podcast hosting service,

(18:24):
the chances that you'recreating content that will
easily translate to a compellingvideo show are probably very,
very low.
We'll just talk about our show.
For example, we're sittingright now in Riverside, all
separate places around thecountry talking to each other.
We've got three talking headson a screen.
We could record this for sure.
I think Riverside is probablyrecording the video aspect of it

(18:45):
.
We could upload that to videosharing services like YouTube,
like Spotify, like X, whatever,and we've experimented with that
in the past.
We've tried it in the pastDidn't get any traction, didn't
help the show because it's notengaging video.
One of the quotes I like themost from this article is he
says something about like if Icould entice you with an hour or

(19:07):
so of your time to sit in onsomebody's Zoom call, would that
be interesting to you?

Alban (19:12):
No, that's exactly what this show is yeah, that's what
you're doing.
Yeah, and it's okay when Jordanedits it down to be a tighter
Zoom call that you listen towhile you're doing something
else.
The first comment we ever gotor maybe not the first, the one
that sticks out to me when weput these on YouTube was why
does Alban look so mad?
It's because I'm not trying toshow emotion for the camera the

(19:37):
full time that I'm on there.
That's just how my face lookswhen it sits there.
That's just my face.
But everyone's used to video.
Where you're doing video firstcontent, Everyone's got like
highly emotive and they'reinteracting with each other.
But we're on a Zoom call prettymuch right now and that's what
it looks like.
And our talking heads aren't atthe same.

(19:57):
They're not in the same size.
Mine's right near the top ofthe screen, Kevin's got a kind
of a downward angle.
It's just all different.
It would not translate well tovideo.
We'd have to start doing videofirst things even to make it
like a decent talking head zoomcall.
Yeah, Right.

Kevin (20:15):
Now, oftentimes, when you do a video first production and
you take into account thingsthat will make a compelling
video.
So you have multiple cameras,you've got really good lighting,
you've got sets, you have mostlikely you have people in the
same room as each other.

Jordan (20:31):
Yeah.

Kevin (20:31):
You have like a producer who's running camera switches
and stuff like that to flip backand forth between this camera
or that camera or whatever.
I could go on Like.
You have microphones that don'tobscure the people's faces, you
have a sound treated room, lotsof stuff that just makes it
right for multiple peopletogether in the same room and
you're recording a video firstproduction.
Oftentimes if you make thatlevel of investment, it

(20:54):
translates really well to anaudio only experience also.

Jordan (20:58):
Yeah.

Kevin (20:58):
Now I'm not saying it's one-to-one like.
There might be some certainthings that you have to do.
You might produce it a littlebit differently, you might cut
it a little bit differently.
There could be times whenyou're referencing something
visual that you then have toeither cut out of the audio or
something because people wouldget confused.
You might put different bumperson it, but for the most part

(21:18):
it's doable.
It's doable if you have thisvideo first production and your
content is mostly about theaudio portion of what you're
saying.
To translate that to audio.
Going the other way, going froman audio first production to
compelling video is verydifficult.
It's a huge leap and oftentimeswhat it results in is just
really bad video content,content that's not engaging.

(21:40):
And then here's, I think, thecompounding problem.
On top of that, youtube is byfar the largest distributor of
online video content.
I believe that's a factualstatement, right by like orders
of magnitude, orders ofmagnitude, right.
And their whole business modelis we want people to stay on

(22:01):
YouTube.
We don't care which videothey're watching.
So even if you get to the pointof somebody got onto YouTube
and found your video and clickedon it and started watching for
a few seconds, as soon as theyget bored, youtube is there with
something hopefully morecompelling.
They have a finely tunedalgorithm to make sure that the
person, when they get bored,doesn't leave YouTube, they just

(22:23):
click something else.
Yeah, right, to make sure thatthe person, when they get bored,
doesn't leave YouTube, theyjust click something else.
There's videos all around yourvideo and I'm pretty sure
YouTube is really good atfiguring out.
Okay, this person's getting alittle bored.
Now what else can we show them?
How do I get them to stay onYouTube?
I don't care if you keepwatching this video or not, just
don't leave.
And so you're not only fighting.
I have to produce good content.

(22:44):
It has to be highly visuallyengaging, but it also has to be
so good that all thedistractions all around this
video are not tempting enoughfor me to click onto something
that might look even moreengaging.
Right, there's all these reallycool thumbnails and stuff all
around and they're changing, andthese are the trending videos.
And doesn't this look hilarious?
And it's all going on allaround your content.
Audio podcasting doesn't haveany of that, and Spotify is just

(23:07):
going to get more like.
If they really want to competewith YouTube, they're going to
have to get more and more intothat space.
Right now, they're not doing, Idon't think, a really great job
of making sure you stay like onplatform, like YouTube is, but
they will be.
I mean their whole model.
Why are they pushing video?
But they will be, I mean theirwhole model.
Why are they pushing video?
Because it's easier for them tomonetize with ads and so if

(23:27):
they're making money through ads, they want, they're going to
want you to stay on thatplatform longer and longer and
longer, which means again, ifyou find this at all a little
boring, if you're thinking aboutturning off your phone, we
can't have that.
We've got to show you somethingelse.

Alban (23:38):
So TikTok discovered the most addictive type of content
that could be created are thosevisual, those short form videos
that you can swipe up and youget a next one, next one, next
one.
That is the most addictivecontent format we've ever
discovered.
Tiktok found it and noweverybody else is just copied it

(23:59):
and sticking it into theirplatforms because they realize
it's so sticky that it's reallygreat for us to have it over
here on Instagram, and now it'sinfiltrated Facebook.
It's infiltrated X.
It's everywhere, and assomebody who really loved
Twitter because it was primarilytext-based, or YouTube because
it was long form videos, orFacebook, I guess I liked it for

(24:22):
Facebook marketplace.
Like, they've all now justbecome infiltrated with this
like highly addictive videocontent, and it really degrades
the experience for me, becausethe things I used to like about
each one have become like hiddenso that they can all just
compete for the same exact typeof highly addictive short form
video.
I think maybe part of this is Ijust don't want us to be part

(24:46):
of encouraging more creators whoare doing something different,
even if ours is not as highlyaddicting it's not.
Let's keep doing our thing,though, because, like, we don't
want to also like everyone goand just only create the most
highly addictive short formvideo until we find actually
doing something else is evenmore addicting, and then
everyone moves to that.
Let's be excited.

(25:08):
We have something really,really good audio content where
you're not demanding someone'sfull attention.
They can still do it withfamily members and everyone's
listening to the same podcast ona road trip.
We have something good here andwe don't have to tell people.
The only way this will everreally be successful is if you
translate it into video.
If you translate it into shortform video and you have a

(25:31):
multi-platform strategy.
It's like you're tellingsomeone how to be a fortune 500
company before they've openedthe coffee shop.
Let's chill out and just saylike, let's focus on running
good little coffee shops, littlecorner stands for a bit before
we tell everybody the businessstrategy on how to become
Starbucks.

Jordan (25:52):
Yeah.

Kevin (25:52):
I brought a clip.
The sentiment that you'retouching on, Alban, was
discussed by James and Sam onthe Pod News Weekly Review.
They did at the end of 2024.
I think they dropped thisepisode at the beginning of
January, but they did likelowlights and James's lowlight
for the year of 2024, he had atake on video podcasting, so
lowlights are the bad thing fromthe year.

Alban (26:12):
The bad things yeah.

Podnews Weekly Review (26:14):
Now, james, let's get on to your
lowlights of 2024.
Right, Well, lowlight numberone for me is the rush to video.
I just think it's such ashort-sighted thing for the
podcast industry to be doing, torushing away from the very

(26:35):
thing that we have in our favour, which is that podcasts are
there entertainment for yourears or while your eyes are busy
.
That's the fundamental thingthat podcasting offers and that
radio offers.
By the way, if you turn it intotelevision or, in podcasting's
case, if you turn it into cheaptelevision, I fail to understand
where the benefit is over allof the other myriad of media out

(27:01):
there.
So I just think that the rushto video is possibly the biggest
low light, not just for lastyear, but the biggest low light
in the last five years of theindustry.
It's just such a short-sightedmove, if you'll pardon the pun,
and I just think it's wholly andtruly the wrong thing.

Alban (27:27):
That makes me so happy.
I was nervous, kevin, thatJames Cridland was going to have
the opposite take, and so I waslike I'm going to hate arguing
with James about this.
But yeah, why are we taking ouraudio content and saying, oh,
the only way this is valid is ifit goes toe to toe with the
Bachelor or something like allthis low quality video content

(27:49):
that's out there.
I have to make something justlike that and I have to turn it
into something else where itwill not do as well and it will
not be optimized for that format.
The world is full ofpossibilities, and why are we
not excited that we have adifferent possibility than 90
Day Fiance?
It's like we don't have to bein the same world.

Jordan (28:10):
Well, the other thing that I think was mentioned is
that podcast listening.
It happens when people are busydoing other things, they're not
watching a video.
There's that one podcast.
It's really a YouTube channel,but they made it an audio format
.
The ninjas are butterflies.
I forget they have that companySunday.
Cool right, yep, yeah, supercool podcast.

(28:31):
Super cool.
People love it.
It's very fun.
But the thing is is like Ifound them on instagram, I went
to listen to them and I was busydoing something and they have
long periods where they'rewatching like viral, weird
videos and they're just silentlywatching it and I'm like what
is going on?
Because it's not translating toaudio and so it's.

(28:52):
It's frustrating for me as alistener that I have to like
stop what I'm doing and thenlike change the thing because
it's not appropriate for washingdishes or driving the car.

Kevin (29:01):
Yeah, james, he said it so succinctly and I'm going to
adopt this phrase, but he saidentertainment for your ears
while your eyes are busy.

Jordan (29:10):
Yeah.

Kevin (29:10):
That's so good.
That is the secret sauce ofaudio podcasting, and I
shouldn't even call it audiopodcast, I just should just call
it podcasting.
I think he's also trying tomake that clear too.

Alban (29:20):
And audio radio, kevin.

Kevin (29:21):
Yeah, audio radio.
Right, Podcasting is primarilyaudio.
So, like, when we saypodcasting, that should be what
people think of, is somethingthat you listen to, not
something that you watch.
There's already plenty of wordsfor things that we watch, like
TV, and a lot of people just say, like I mean, youtube has

(29:42):
basically become like thebandaid of bandages, like
everyone knows what YouTube is.
It's something that you watch.
Now Spotify might want to startbecome you know, to become
something that you watch as well.
Fine, you can all have your ownwords for things that you watch
.
But, like, leave podcastingalone.
Podcasting is not really.
I mean, video podcasting hasbeen around for a long time and

(30:03):
we called it video podcastingand when we just said podcasting
, that kind of meant listeningand that's it's just so much
clearer.
Anyway, I really like this ideaof it's entertainment for your
ears while your eyes are busy.
That is the magic and part ofthe beauty, part of what we love
about podcasting.
I hope that resonates withpeople who listen to this show,
that you enjoy podcasts that youlisten to, because it's a

(30:24):
respectful form of mediaconsumption and entertainment
and education and all the thingsthat you go to podcasts for.
But video is different and thecomplexity around doing the
video is high.
We've talked about that plenty.
I don't want this to sound likeI'm really slamming on people,
people who are trying to givevideo a go.

Jordan (30:43):
Yeah.

Kevin (30:43):
But the idea that you would do low quality video
content and then stick it on aplatform with somewhere in the
ballpark of 50 million channels,right, and tons of distractions
all around you, and that isgoing to be the unlock for you
in your creator journey thatthat is what you know.
The algorithm is going to findmy content, it's going to
promote me, it's going to takeme to the next level.

(31:05):
I'm going to start having youknow like sponsorship
opportunities flood my inbox andI'm going to finally make it as
an online content creator.
It's false hopes, it's not fair,it's not a good message and,
beyond just the fact that it'snot reality, I really feel like
it's unfortunate in that theside effect that comes along
with that is that it will robyou of a ton of your money.

(31:26):
You're going to invest a ton ofmoney in it.
It's going to rob you of a lotof your time.
It's going to ultimatelyprobably lead to a lot burnout
for a lot of people, becauseit's not about creating content
anymore.
It's about buying a $500 lightand getting a $2,000 camera and
getting a new laptop andsoundproofing your studio and if
I have guests on, we got to bein the same room and editing
takes a lot longer and yeah,yeah, yeah, all that stuff that
goes into it is going to lead toyou being two months in this

(31:48):
journey and just being like thisis like a job and I don't have
an extra 40 hours a week to putinto my hobby.

Alban (31:54):
Yeah, it's a job, except that you pay to do the job.
You pay a lot.
I think what I'm noticing,kevin, is it's not YouTube that
I'm against, because I reallylove YouTube.
I truly love watching videos onYouTube.
What I don't like is somebodywho's doing something else

(32:15):
podcasting saying for me to besuccessful, I have to be on
YouTube.
And now YouTube is only thepath for you to make it to this
hypothetical success, whichturns out it's not likely.
It's also not necessary.
We now learned because a lot ofthese top podcasters aren't
doing it.
It's not likely or necessary.

(32:36):
And so now you're going to bedoing bad YouTube and bad
podcasting for the benefit ofprobably just burnout, where you
could just have been doing acool YouTube video.
I watched a video the other dayI thought was excellent and all
it was was this kid talkingstraight to a camera from his
iPhone with no editing at all,and it still can be good, but

(32:59):
because he wasn't trying tobuild some media empire, he's
just trying to share a specificmessage, and you can do that in
any number of formats, but it'swhen you constrain.
We do this a lot at work.
When we pick projects, we tryto tighten the scope of what the
project is to what's absolutelynecessary, and I think with
content creation, what's oftenabsolutely necessary is I share

(33:23):
this particular thing that'simportant to me.
For us today was to record anepisode about video podcasts,
and we wanted to share ouropinions.
But if we added in and it hasto reach 10,000 people and we
have to do video, we have to doall the other things it would
make it so daunting we wouldnever do it.
And so I'm saying tighten itdown.

(33:43):
What is the important piece ofyour podcast and then let's nail
that and rather than adding onall these superfluous things
that will not help you nail thething you're trying to do.
Kevin met somebody at PodFestwho did a show about the 1% in
recovery, about people who arerecovering from addiction.
That's the type of podcast Ilove, because they will tell you

(34:06):
if we're impacting a handful ofpeople, it's worth it because
we're changing their lives.
That's a powerful podcast, it'sa powerful message, and I think
that's true for a lot ofpodcasters.
We're trying to reach a handfulof people in an important,
powerful way, and that's whatwe're trying to do.
But, as soon as we say, theonly way it's valuable is if it
reaches a million plus people.

(34:27):
Well, now you've reallyconstrained the types of
messages you can share andyou're probably going to share
something like what's on allreality TV.
It's kind of a bunch of junk.
That's highly enjoyable for aperiod, but it's not deep
because it's broad appeal, and Ithink James is right.
I think like this whole idea oftaking audio content which

(34:48):
allows us to have certain typesof conversations and certain
topics, I don't know, come tothe forefront.
A lot of those disappear onceyou go.
Now it's got to also be onvideo, that's the argument.

Kevin (34:58):
I love it, but I don't want the keystone to that
argument and I don't want thedeciding factor of whether that
argument is true or not to behow many video shows are live on
Spotify at any given moment.
I say that because I do believethat Spotify is going to
continue to invest in this area.
I do believe they're going tocontinue to reach out to anybody

(35:21):
who's doing a podcast typevideo show on YouTube and do
whatever they have to do toentice them to get their video
content uploaded to Spotify aswell.
The lift is not huge.
You're already producing a highquality video show and
uploading it to YouTube.
What's the extra 30, 40 minutesto make sure that you get it on
Spotify as well?
I think that Spotify as a videoplatform is going to continue

(35:42):
to grow.
So, when we look back, ifAshley writes an update to an
article at the end of 2025 andbeginning of 2026.

Alban (35:48):
And nine of them are uploading video, or 20 or nine
or 10 or all of them, maybe it'seven all of them.

Kevin (35:53):
Maybe Spotify goes all out and says we're going to
actually just like pay thesepeople to do it.
I mean, the majority of peoplewho are posting content to
YouTube do not have a YouTubeexclusivity license agreement in
place, so they might also startputting it like what if X jumps
on board and says, hey, we wantto get more video content on
our platform as well?
It makes sense for theplatforms.
Again, a lot of monetizationhappens around video content,

(36:14):
and so they're all incented in away to get as much of it as
they can.
But the popularity of certainshows that are video first
productions, getting ondifferent platforms, should not
be an indicator that audio firstcontent needs to go video as
well.
Yes, what?

Alban (36:30):
happened for me today was the last of the arguments for
why you need to be doing videowent away.
All the other ones I alreadyknew were kind of a joke, Like
you've got to be doing videobecause it's more important than
audio, and I went no, reallyAudio has a special place.
The other argument was well, ithelps you grow, and I'm like it

(36:50):
can help you grow, but look ateven the top shows.
Not all of them are doing video.
And oh well it's the best way tomonetize is the best way to
like.
There were all these argumentsand the last one was everybody's
doing it, yeah, and I'm like.
And even the top shows with thebiggest budgets, with the
biggest team, with the mostexperience, even they're not all
doing it.

(37:11):
It'd be like a publishing housetelling you the only way for
your book to ever be successfulis if you do a world book tour
and you're an author stressingover the world book tour and
then all of a sudden you foundout the top 50 biggest books on
the New York Times bestsellers,only 35 of them did a book tour.
You go well, forget that.
Then I've been hearing over andover and over from the guy who

(37:34):
schedules book tours.
You got to do book tours andthen you found out that it was a
lie the whole time.
Anyway, good riddance, no morebook tours unless you want to do
it.

Kevin (37:44):
I will say you know, a lot of the, a lot of the
podcasts that I listened to arevideo first productions.
I don't find it compelling towatch them in their video format
.
And maybe I'm unique, maybe I'mspecial, but I can't, I'm not.
I know everyone in my lifetells me the opposite.
They tell me I'm not unique andI'm not special.

Jordan (38:02):
You're special to us though.

Kevin (38:04):
There's some wisdom in that and I do think I'm not
crazy unique in the way that Ienjoy listening to podcasts
while I'm doing other things,and oftentimes, like Alban
mentioned earlier, I will find apodcast on YouTube that has a
clip or something like that, andthen I'll be like, oh, that
sounds like an interestingconversation.
I have no interest in beingtied to a screen and watching

(38:29):
that for an hour hour and a halftwo hours.
I am very much inclined to goflip over to my podcast app,
queue up that episode and listento it on when I'm walking the
dog tonight.
That sounds wonderful.
But what does not soundwonderful is to sit in front of
my phone for an hour and a halfand ignore my kids and ignore
the things I've got to do aroundthe house.
That just feels like awful tome, and that's nothing against

(38:51):
anybody who does enjoy takingsome of their leisure time and
doing that.
But you can see what the pointI'm trying to make here is that
they're very different.
You know the state of mind thatyou're in and I just don't
think it's going away.
Podcasting has been around formore than 20 years.
I think.
Whatever happens in the videospace, it will continue to be
around.
There might be technologiesthat disrupt and provide

(39:12):
different ways to listen tothings, like what happened with
radio.
Radio is still around Now.
A lot of people are starting toconsume radio in different ways
.
Some people are listening tolike radio podcasts.
Some people are tuning intoradio through XM satellite.
Some people are tuning intoradio by streaming a radio
station through their phone whenthey're driving in a car,

(39:34):
because they want to listen tothe same station regardless of
what state they're driving in acar, because they want to listen
to the same station regardlessof what state they're driving
through, yeah, but it's stillgoing to be around.
And I think the same is true forpodcasts.
Podcasts are going to be around.
Are there going to be as many?
Are there going to be less?
Are there going to be tenfoldmore?
I don't know.
I don't know what the futureholds, but I do know that
there'll always be people whoare walking dogs.
There are always going to bepeople who are exercising.

(39:55):
There are always going to bepeople who just want to go out
and sit on their back porch andlisten to something while
they're enjoying nature andlooking at the trees instead of
looking at a screen.
I don't think that's going tochange in 20 years, 40 years,
100 years, and so you mightactually you know, queue it up
on your Apple ring and it juststreams to the microchip in your

(40:15):
head.
That might happen, but and itjust streams to the microchip in
your head.
That might happen, but I stillthink we're going to want to
consume audio without the visualcomponent.

Alban (40:22):
Yeah, and we've got to vote for the things we want to
see in the world.
If the future you want is thefuture of everything's kind of
like long form video like youcan, just you can vote for that
and that's what you should becreating.
And if the future you want isYouTube style world, then, like,
create that stuff.
But if what you want is more ofwhat podcasting affords, we

(40:43):
should be voting for that.
Podcasting and blogs are what Ireally really love, and then I
really enjoy YouTube.
Those are the things I shouldbe voting for, and I should not
be apologizing for like oh sorry, we didn't also make this a
video, sorry, we didn't put thison TikTok as well.
I just don't think those arevaluable.

(41:04):
I don't think they're veryhealthy, especially for me, so I
should just be reallycomfortable in saying no, that's
not the thing we're voting for.

Jordan (41:11):
And we're not saying that video is just bad.
I know it sounds like we'redunking on it pretty tough here.

Alban (41:17):
I am, I'm just bad.
I know it sounds like we'redunking on it pretty tough.

Jordan (41:20):
I am, I'm over it, I'm really like you also said that
you love consuming YouTubevideos.
Yeah, give me long form video.
Yeah, I would ban Tik TOK and Iwould ban all short form video.
They tried and it didn't work.
You got to get in that whitehouse press room.

Alban (41:36):
Like if I could just encourage my daughter to never
watch a short form video in herentire life, I would do that.
Oh yeah, like I'm just gonnasay this isn't healthy, it's not
good.

Jordan (41:44):
No.

Alban (41:45):
And there's better ways to spend your life.

Kevin (41:47):
Just like I said, I think consuming audio first content
is going to be around forgenerations.
I do think short form video hasa life cycle and I don't think
it's going to be around forgenerations.
Ooh, I think we're going tostart to find out that it's
actually way worse for you and Ithink it's going to like go the
way of smoking.
I mean, kids are alreadycalling it brain rot and they do

(42:09):
like brain rock quizzes andstuff like that.
It's very concerning that.
My 15 year old is actuallyreally good at these brain rock
quizzes.
What's brain rock quiz?
Google it is actually reallygood at these brain rot quizzes.
What's brain rot quiz?
Google it.
Brain rot, it's.
It's what they call it.
When you sit there and scrollall day, you just start learning
and consuming all this justgarbage and it's it's funny
words and silly memes and allthat kind of stuff.
And then they quiz each otheron.

(42:29):
You know, do you know aboutthis one?
Do you know about this one?
And I think the youngergeneration is already starting
to see it's not cool.
Like it's not cool.
Like it's not cool to sit onyour phone and scroll all day.
That's not good for you.
Like they have.
This one of the brain rotthings is like you need to go
touch grass, like get outsideand do something, and so like if
you're already starting to seepushback in really young kids

(42:49):
around this stuff, I think asthey mature up it's going to be
not cool anymore.
Now there will be somethingelse that follows, but like
nobody calls listening to apodcast or listening to the
radio or something they don'tcall it brain rot.
Snl is about to.
Oh yeah, anyway, I think we'vemade the point and it feels good
to talk about it.

(43:10):
It feels good to push back alittle bit.
You know, I think this stuff isall sourcing from the big video
platforms.
I think they're doing a goodjob of getting their creators
and their PR teams and stuff outthere, spreading this message
of if you want to be a creatoronline, the key to success is
getting onto our platforms andthe video content.
And then a lot of you knowpro-Sumer type coaches.

(43:34):
You know podcast coaches.
They make some of their incomeby saying, hey, we're going to
help you do that, we're going toshow you the right strategy and
the right equipment that youneed and we're going to set up
our own YouTube channel showingall the cameras you need and how
to set up your home studio, andthere's a lot of people who
generate a lot of theirlivelihood around pushing
whatever the current narrativeis that usually starts at like

(43:55):
big corporations big video.
Yeah, and so it's good to comeout is?
You know?
I guess we have our owncorporate message and that is no
.
Audio podcasting is cool tooand it's good for a lot of
reasons and we don't want toforget that.
But I think overall, ourmessages for podcasters who are
interested in doing audio onlycontent like relieve yourself of
the pressure.

Jordan (44:13):
Yeah.

Kevin (44:14):
And if you do want to do video, great, go out and do
video.
But recognize that just takingyour audio first production and
sticking it on a video platformis not going to be a magic
unlock for success.

Jordan (44:27):
All right, so let's get into sound off.
So our first fan mail messageis from Michigan Murders and
Music.
I love your better fans idea.
Thank you, that's to you, Alban, talking about in our second
last episode how we just needbetter fans we need to be better
fans idea.
Thank you, that's to you, Alban, talking about in our second
last episode how we just needbetter fans, we need to be
better fans.

Alban (44:42):
Well, Michigan Murders and Music.
Thanks for being one of ourbest fans and writing in on the
fan mail.
Uh, somebody wrote in fromSoldotna, Alaska, and said I
thought the SNL skit was a digat guys and podcasts place in
current culture, not podcastingitself.
Yeah, You're probably right.

Kevin (44:58):
A hundred percent Right.
I'm just overly sensitive.

Alban (45:03):
Uh, number two listening to your podcast keeps me engaged
and encouraged to keep puttingone podcast foot in front of the
other.
Thank you.
Well, thank you, and a goodpoint about SNL.

Kevin (45:13):
Another fan mail came in from Alaska.
This time Anchorage says I haveto agree with Jordan.
Saturday Night Live is notfunny, never been funny.
It's been occasionally mildlyamusing.
But the best thing to ever comeout of Saturday Night Live was
the Blues Brothers.
That's their take.
I would say I would put Hansand Franz up against the Blues

(45:34):
Brothers.
That's their take.
I would say I would put Hansand Franz up against the Blues
Brothers, but only maybe becauseBlues Brothers were a little
bit before my time and so I grewup the recurring skit.
That was hilarious to me.

Jordan (45:42):
We are here to pump you up?
Yes, what about Wayne's World,too?
That's a classic as well.

Kevin (45:47):
I like the Wayne's World stuff, but I don't know, I would
still put Hans and Franz.
I just thought they werehilarious.
I feel the Wayne's World stuff,but I don't know, I would still
put Hans and Franz.
I just thought they werehilarious.

Alban (45:54):
I feel like old Will Ferrell.
Tina Fey was like prime SNLyears for me.

Kevin (45:58):
Oh yeah, that was really good.

Alban (46:00):
There's so much good stuff.

Jordan (46:00):
I also want to point out that maybe I need to go visit
Alaska because they think likeme.

Kevin (46:04):
Yeah, but if you think about the amount of content that
Saturday Night Live cranks outfor the handful of memorable
skits, it's like their battingaverage is probably really low.

Alban (46:18):
Oh, I can't believe this is an SNL show now.

Jordan (46:22):
I just can't let it go.

Alban (46:23):
Go watch some of the weekend updates and they are so
funny, like I've watched somerecently, but it's like an hour
and a half of content for likeyeah, you got to skip 45 seconds
, a minute and a half of laugh.

Kevin (46:36):
That's pretty low Like I don't think you'd make it in the
MLB.

Jordan (46:42):
All right, so we're going to move on to our sound
off question from last episodewhat does your creator journey
look like?
So, first off, we got a messagefrom Steph from Geopats, and
Steph said that she had an expatblog back in 2003, 2004, took a
decade long content break andthen started a podcast and
YouTube channel in 2017.

(47:03):
And now she's got podcast,youtube channel, newsletter and
three social media channels andshe said she dialed back from
running too many socials, whichis shocking to me.
I don't know how many shemust've been running.

Alban (47:15):
That's a lot yeah.

Jordan (47:16):
Yeah.

Alban (47:16):
Damien the DM, which is a dungeon master.
I think, like D&D, started as alistener of actual play
podcasts and then, afterenjoying other people's Dungeon
and Dragons games and stories,decided to become a dungeon
master themselves and do his ownpodcast.
So very cool story, Damien.
Yeah.

Kevin (47:36):
Sparkling D wrote in and said that she started with
in-person holistic healtheducation classes, then she
moved to Zoom webinars, then shestarted moving those webinars
into YouTube recordings anduploading to YouTube and then,
when YouTube started gettingpodcasts, she looked into audio
podcasts and then she gotstarted with Buzzsprout's how to
Start a Podcast YouTube series.

Jordan (47:56):
Solid series.

Kevin (47:57):
That's a really encouraging story.
Somebody who started on YouTubefirst and then came to audio
podcast.
Yeah, it's because.

Alban (48:03):
Dee's into holistic health and she noticed the brain
rot of all the video platforms.

Jordan (48:11):
Terry from the Int eating and body positivity
podcast says that they startedin podcasting first and they
said I'm very all or nothing,and so on a complete whim.
One day I said I'm going tostart a podcast and I did that
day.

Alban (48:23):
Yes.

Jordan (48:24):
Yeah, and now Terry generates blogs, social captions
, emails and everything from thepodcast content.
I love that.
Repurposing, recycling thecontent work smarter, not harder
.

Alban (48:34):
Barnabas from the Kids Code podcast I used to come up
with designs and ideas everymorning decided in 2021 to do a
podcast about secret messages,and the Kids Code podcast was
born.
It's amazing how many detailswere in place the moment I had
the idea and I went forward andcreated it.
Unlike many ideas, there'sstill notes in a folder
somewhere now, nearing the endof season five, almost four

(48:57):
years later, I really feel likethis is like the theme we've
come back to over and over.
There's a lot of ideas that endup in a folder and die, and
lots of the things that die,they died for a good reason,
because they weren't really agreat idea, but a lot of things
I'm noticing now die because weput a lot of expectations on
them.
It has to be a massivelysuccessful show, it has to be

(49:19):
done in a certain way with fivedifferent social media platforms
, and I just want to make a fewmore things live and get to see
the light of day, and so I lovethat.
Barnabas, you had this idea andthis was one of your ideas that
made it all the way to apodcast, and now it's five years
later, four seasons, stillgoing strong All right, jordan,
is it my turn?

Kevin (49:39):
Yeah, sound off.
Question from Kevin.
Here's what I'm interested inwhat are you using as a
podcaster to stay motivated?
One of the sayings that wealways sign off this show with
and it's like the officialtagline of Buzzsprout is keep
podcasting, and that requiresmotivation.
So what are you doing to keepyourself motivated to keep
podcasting?
Does that make sense?
Yes, Alban Jordan, like, do youhave some ideas?

(50:00):
Like, what are some strategiesyou guys have heard of or you
use to keep podcasting?

Alban (50:04):
For two months I've been running on just feeling like we
did a really good episode inDecember on all these marketing
ideas and then we heard frompeople in person.
They said man, that episodereally stood out to me and I
probably prepped two full daysfor that episode like 16 hours
of work prepping for it and thatgot me so motivated to do a lot

(50:27):
more shows and do more prep forshows.
I haven't had the opportunityto do it, but just those few
interactions has been likemultiple months of going.
Oh man, we can do really goodstuff.
I'm excited to keep growingwith this show.
So does that answer thequestion?

Kevin (50:41):
right.
Yeah, that's a great example.
What about you, Jordan?

Jordan (50:44):
I think for me, one that just kind of spring to mind
immediately when I think aboutlike what makes me most
motivated and like proud of mypodcast, is when my daughters
create like dreamful artwork andthey give it to me, or they
come downstairs and they're likemom, I'm wearing my dreamful
shirt today, biggest fan, and itjust warms my heart so much.
I'm like I'm never giving thisup.

(51:05):
So I think that's mine.
What about you, kevin?

Kevin (51:08):
Yeah, I love it.
One of the things that keeps memotivated is interactions with
our listeners, which is why Ireally love the sound off
segment that we do, becausethat's where we drive the
majority of the feedback fromour listeners, and so I'm hoping
that this doesn't come back tobite me here, but I'm hoping we
get a lot of people who answerthis question.
I find it highly motivationalto connect with people who

(51:28):
listen to our show.
Numbers are great, like I liketo see big numbers, but at the
end of the day, I would give uphalf those numbers for, you know
, more interactions with realpeople, especially the way they
come in.
Good gosh, like it's so cool.
Oftentimes I'm doing somethingcompletely unrelated to
podcasting.
I'll just be working in thegarage or something, for example

(51:48):
, and we'll get a fan mailmessage and I'll tap on it and
be like, oh, how cool is that.
Like we recorded that a weekand a half ago.
Somebody just listened to it,somebody wrote in that and keeps
me coming back to the mic.

Jordan (51:55):
I love it.
All right, so to let us knowwhat keeps you motivated to keep
podcasting, go ahead and tapthe link in the show notes to
send us a text message and keeppodcasting.
Did you guys watch the SuperBowl on Sunday?

Alban (52:13):
Heck, yeah, I did.
Apparently they had somepodcaster they allowed to go
play tight end for the Chiefs.
Yes, that's true.

Kevin (52:23):
And he actually this year , unlike last year, he actually
looked like a podcaster playingfootball.
Oh no, that's brutal yeah itwas not the best performance by
the chiefs, but everyone knowsthat already I mean, I watched
the super bowl as well.

Alban (52:39):
It was free on tubi, and so I was like the super bowl is
free.

Jordan (52:46):
I'm like everything I don't know where you get sports,
I don't know, but there waslike an ad to be apparently the
antenna, the bunny ears yeah.

Alban (52:55):
I just kind of, I get it anyway.

Jordan (52:56):
Yeah.
So I was like well, you have towatch it for commercials and
obviously for like the halftimeshow.

Kevin (53:03):
I think it's so smart.
But the NFL has done for theSuper Bowl, is that made it?
You know it's.
It's obviously it's grown intoa cultural phenomenon, but like
they've done a great job ofattracting people to watch it
who don't even care aboutfootball, not saying I know,
jordan, you are now getting intofootball, I'm trying, I'm
trying but even if you don't,like you said, you have to watch

(53:23):
it for the commercials, or youmight want to watch it for the
halftime show, or they just giveyou so many different reasons
to watch it.
Just being an American, I haveto watch it.
I will say so.
We had a fun event here at thehouse.
My wife was out of town, so itwas just me and my two high
school boys and they both wantedto have a group of friends over
each.
So I had 11 boys over here andI got to have fun making

(53:46):
Superbowl food for them andsetting them up to watch the
game.
The younger son was out on theback porch with his friends,
older son in the living roomwith his friends and I was just
doing my best to make sure thatone the dog didn't get all the
Buffalo chicken wings and dieand that for the inside group,
that they didn't spill anythingand stay in the couch because
then I would die.
But yeah, that's what I didduring the Super Bowl.

(54:07):
I didn't watch a lot of game, Ijust managed teenage boys and
food and dogs.

Alban (54:13):
Yeah, I watched mine in a bar and so when you're watching
a bar, I saw that KendrickLamar was on TV and I heard.
I kind of guessed which songswere being played at each time
but totally missed out on theexperience.
So everyone's like commentaryabout oh remember when they said
this and this happened, I waslike I definitely saw him
dancing and there's somechoreography.

(54:33):
That was really impressive, butI missed out on a lot of it.

Jordan (54:36):
I don't listen to Kendrick Lamar, but I knew that
Kendrick is a Pulitzer Prizewinning lyricist.
He's obviously incrediblyintelligent, incredibly talented
.
I mean he wouldn't be playingSuper Bowl halftime if he wasn't
.
But I feel like I'm aging somuch like Josh and I were
watching TV so intensely, bothof us just staring at the TV,

(54:56):
trying to understand like thelyrics for it, because I don't,
I can't understand like quicktalking that much, and so we're
both just like laser focused andI was like, okay, I can see
that like the dance isincredible, like everything's
beautiful and amazing, but Idon't know what's happening.
And then later I went ontosocial media and I'm seeing all
these like analyses of the wholeperformance and I was like, wow

(55:19):
, this was like really deep,which I expected.
I just didn't understand in themoment.

Alban (55:23):
That's the exact same experience I had with Severance.
Oh yeah, this Apple TV show.
I'm like, oh, it's like prettyand it's interesting, but it
feels kind of random.
And then I went on theSeverance subreddit and they are
like I've never seen peopledissect 28 minutes of TV, like
more closely, and they're like,oh, did you see this scene?

(55:45):
It lines up with this scene andthat's what this means.
And I'm like, oh, there's a lotmore here than I noticed.

Kevin (55:50):
Yeah.
Yeah, I did feel a little agedout of this year's halftime show
, but I think that's all right,like I recognize that it wasn't
for me, so I reserved anyjudgment on it.
I agree with you, it wasvisually cool.
I did not know a lot of thesongs.
Some of them sounded slightlyfamiliar, like I've heard them
before.
But yeah, not for me and that'scool.

(56:11):
But it makes me wonder this.
This is what I wondered like ifI had to rank, like what do I
think, the best super bowlhalftime performances that I can
recall, what would I, what Iput at the top, like maybe?

Alban (56:21):
top black eyed peas easily yeah, and I want to hear
you guys she knows the answer Igot my one and two jordan.

Kevin (56:30):
That's what you're going with.

Jordan (56:31):
No, no.
It's known as like one of theworst in history.

Kevin (56:34):
No, lock it in, kevin.
I feel like you.
Yeah, you already finaledanswered, so we're going to have
to put that as your number one.
What would be your number two,jordan?

Jordan (56:44):
Oh God, I don't even know.
I feel Bruno Mars did reallygood.
I haven't watched that manySuper Bowls or that many
halftime shows, but I rememberBruno Mars performing and I was
like whoa, this guy is like megatalented, and I didn't listen
to him before that.

Kevin (56:57):
So yeah, what about you?

Alban (56:58):
Alban, first one I remember was 1993.

Kevin (57:03):
Wait, that's not the question you always don't answer
the question.

Alban (57:06):
It's the first one I remember and it was the best.

Jordan (57:14):
And it was the best and it was 1993 and it was michael
jackson.

Alban (57:17):
Yeah, oh what.
My answer is so lame.
Now it's the first halftimeshow where the halftime show had
more viewers than the superbowl, so more people got on to
start watching tv to see michaeljackson perform, and I
re-watched part of it in thelast couple of days and it
really like I know MichaelJackson's one of the greatest
performers of all time, if notlike the greatest performer.

(57:39):
But then you watch it and it'slike so impressive.
Every single bit of it is likeperfect.

Kevin (57:47):
I will tell you.
I think the only negative thingin that whole performance was
that for some reason it was, itmust've been on California or
something, Cause it was daylight.
I think it would have been somuch better if it was dark.

Alban (57:57):
Yeah, I don't know where, uh, where that one was from,
where that happened.

Kevin (58:01):
But you're right, yeah, it's, it's gotta be California
Cause it's really bright, yeah,and he has like lots of
fireworks and stuff going offaround the show and I'm like, ah
, if it was dark it would lookso much cooler.

Alban (58:12):
All right, Number two for me, okay, 2001.

Kevin (58:18):
Creed.
I don't even remember this what.

Jordan (58:22):
What.

Kevin (58:23):
They played the Super Bowl.
If somebody gave me like 10,000to one odds on did Creed ever
play the Super Bowl?
I'd be like I'll take that.
No, they didn't Give me themoney.

Jordan (58:31):
No, I don't believe this .

Alban (58:33):
I'm sure in 2001,.
I thought it was really stupidbecause I think I was more in
the group of like ah, creed,it's like so urgent and like try
hard that it's bad.
But now, like everything isironic, everything's a joke.
And then I went and like Iwatched part of that is a joke.
And then I went and like Iwatched part of that and there's

(58:54):
like a guy they're singing thesong, like can you take me
higher?
There's guys like flying aroundon like ribbons and I was like
this is actually pretty sweet,this is cool, and they are
trying so hard to be cool.
But everybody else tries hardto not look like they're trying,
but Creed is they're trying ashard as they can to try to look

(59:15):
cool and there's somethingawesome about it and so I did
not.

Kevin (59:20):
I'm all in.
I totally missed that I didn't.
Maybe I must have watched it.
Surely I watched it, but itmust have just blocked it out.

Jordan (59:26):
Well, so I'm looking this up, because I of course I
had to look it up.
So they played at theThanksgiving halftime show, so
that might be why you missed it.

Alban (59:34):
No, I thought that was the Super Bowl.

Jordan (59:37):
Well, I mean, you just asked halftime show, right, or
did you specify Super Bowl?

Alban (59:41):
Oh, that was part of the 9-11, post 9-11 halftime show.

Jordan (59:47):
They were like what's?

Alban (59:48):
the most American band.
Yeah, actually that even makesit better.

Jordan (59:50):
I mean it says here remember Creed's epic NFL
halftime, thanksgiving Dayperformance All right.

Kevin (59:55):
well, we'll put that in the honorable mention, since
it's not actually official SuperBowl halftime show.
For my answers.
I would agree with you, Alban.
I put Michael Jackson at thetop or very close to it.
Again, I just want it atnighttime, but other than that
it was spectacular across theboard.
And then I've got a couple thatI think might be a little bit
less popular, and I'll start offwith Coldplay.

(01:00:17):
I thought they did a greatperformance.

Jordan (01:00:21):
I really love when, back before, they started producing
bad music or yeah, yeah.

Alban (01:00:25):
That's just in their prime Such haters in this group.

Jordan (01:00:28):
I love them.
Pre-2015.

Kevin (01:00:33):
Well, here's the thing.
I do believe that maybe thisisn't true for Michael Jackson,
but for the most part, I thinkartists say no to the Super Bowl
until they've kind of likepeaked.
They've already peaked andthey're starting their decline,
and then they hope to get theSuper Bowl gig.

Jordan (01:00:48):
Yeah.

Kevin (01:00:48):
But I think it's a little bit of a.
You've had this huge journeylike story career.
You've had tons of hit albumsand stuff.
Now come play all of them.
But it also kind of signifiesthat you're a little bit done.
I've heard rumors anyway, thatTaylor Swift's been off of the
Super Bowl multiple times, butshe keeps saying no and I think
it's because she's like I'm notpeaked, I got plenty ahead of me

(01:01:08):
.
It's just my theory, I don'tknow if it's true, so anyway I
would say Coldplay.
I thought their show wasawesome.
Like I love it when bands bringin younger kids high school
bands, dance groups and all thatkind of stuff.
I remember them doing that andI thought that that's super cool
to get them to all be a part ofthe show.
I can't remember who played theone of the Tampa Super Bowls,
but I remember all the locallocal high schools got, like

(01:01:29):
their bands, on the field andstuff, to be part of the
halftime show.
So it's super cool.
Now here's the one that no onereferences except me.
I like this performance a lotand I'm not a big fan of this
performer, but I think Lady Gagadid a great halftime show.

Jordan (01:01:42):
Yeah.

Kevin (01:01:43):
I think again.
I'm not a huge fan of LadyGaga's music.
I don't know much about herlike as a celebrity or a person
or whatever.

Jordan (01:01:51):
She's pretty awesome.

Kevin (01:01:53):
Okay, I'll take your word for it.
I just watched the halftimeperformance and the performance
that she put on I thought waspretty amazing.
It was pretty epic.
So yeah, I put her likeprobably number three.

Alban (01:02:05):
Okay, what about um a few years ago, when Dr Dre did it?
And then and Mary J blige andkendrick lamar and eminem and 50
cent and that was really goodthat was like everybody just
keeps coming out and you're like, whoa this would?
That was like that must havebeen in la.
Actually, there must have beenthe super bowl in la, because

(01:02:25):
they just kept like getting moreand more people to show up on
stage and the like star power ofit just kept getting better and
better yeah that was amazing.

Kevin (01:02:34):
Speaking of star power sorry for this random segue the
uh the bud light commercial.
Did you see like the number ofstars and celebrities in that?
But like that must have costthem a fortune was that the like
backyard, the subdivision?

Alban (01:02:48):
yeah the cul-de-sac that was so good.
Um that was so good.

Kevin (01:02:52):
But like Shane Gillis, post Malone, peyton Manning tons
of celebrities in thatcommercial and they were
licensing what was the song thatthey were playing?
I don't know.
I watched it from a bar.
It was a super popular songthat they use as the background
track.
Like I'm just sitting therelike dollar signs are flashing
in front of my eyes of how muchBud Light spent on this
commercial.
Now I know they had a roughyear PR-wise and so they're

(01:03:15):
trying to get through that, butgood Lord, they went big.

Jordan (01:03:19):
I feel like Dunkin' went bigger.

Kevin (01:03:21):
Dunkin'.

Jordan (01:03:21):
That Dunkin' Donuts commercial was like insane.

Kevin (01:03:24):
Yeah, and I didn't like it.

Jordan (01:03:26):
I didn't either.
Oh, oh, oh Okay, we have totalk about the longest post show
ever.

Kevin (01:03:31):
Jordan's excited.

Jordan (01:03:32):
It's fine it's totally fine, we're going for it.
Okay, we have to talk about themost awkward moment in the
entirety of the Super Bowl.

Kevin (01:03:41):
Wait, wait, wait.
Alban loves guessing.
I do love guessing Dealingpeople's thunder.

Alban (01:03:45):
Man, I've got two.
One is the second time.
There's a flying facial haircommercial.
Yeah, that's what I'm talkingabout.
Oh, my gosh, all right, sorry,jordan, I tried to steal it.

Jordan (01:03:56):
Okay.
So it was just this likeawkward moment where we watched
this like Little Caesarscommercial and Eugene Levy's
eyebrows go off flutteringaround.
We took a bite of a crazy puffand we're like, okay, that was a
little goofy, but whatever.
And then, like I don't know,half an hour later or something,
we see another commercial andit's for Pringles and this guy
blows into a Pringles can andall these mustaches go flying

(01:04:18):
off of people's faces and flythrough the air and we were just
like that's awkward.

Alban (01:04:26):
Imagine working at the Pringles like ad agency and
you're like we got gold thistime, oh yeah, and we're running
like a couple.
We're in the second quarter,but the first quarter you're all
about watching.
You're like get ready for dad'sbig commercial, and then Eugene
Levy's eyebrows fly off andyou're like, oh no, yeah, oh no,

(01:04:46):
they stole it.

Podnews Weekly Review (01:04:47):
They stole our thunder.

Jordan (01:04:56):
And now we look like the copycat even though we did our
thing totally on our own, yeah,and so they're dreading their
commercial coming up in like thethird quarter or whatever it
was so awkward.

Kevin (01:05:01):
Oh my gosh, I'm with you.
That was.
That's a bummer.
Think about the poor mediabuyer who maybe had the choice
of do you want to go early inthe Superbowl or a little bit
later?
Same price.
I'll go a little later, I'll goa little.
I think it's a good choice.

Jordan (01:05:12):
Yeah, it was really funny because I saw I looked
online and people were sayinglike didn't have flying facial
hair on my Superbowl bingo card,but here we are.
It was so weird.

Kevin (01:05:24):
All right Craziest, like most hilarious commercial.
For me is that a seal one.

Jordan (01:05:28):
Oh, that was so funny, it was stupid.

Kevin (01:05:30):
It was so stupid, but just the fact that seal agreed
to let them put his head on aseal and saying I mean, it's
fantastic he actually postedsome like behind the scenes
stuff of that on his Instagramtoo.

Jordan (01:05:44):
It was really funny.

Alban (01:05:45):
Yeah, my wife watched it and looks at me and goes why did
he do that?
And I was like because theypaid him millions of dollars.

Kevin (01:05:52):
Right, he probably hasn't had a paycheck in a while.
That sounded good.

Alban (01:05:56):
And I bet he just was like yeah, it's a bunch of money
, it's kind of dumb, who cares?
Sure, go for it and got a bigpayday.
Yeah, I liked it.

Jordan (01:06:03):
There was a lot of I cried at like three, which was
kind of weird.
I cried.
There was like three that mademe cry, even though there was
like 15 that were trying to makeme cry, and then there was like
four or five funny ones.

Alban (01:06:17):
So which ones did?

Kevin (01:06:17):
you cry in.

Alban (01:06:18):
Yeah.

Jordan (01:06:18):
Oh, I don't even remember there was one and it
was like a daughter.
I don't even remember becauseit was just too sad and I like
blocked it from my memory, butit was like a dad and a daughter
and he's like taking care ofher as she like grows up and
then she like is going off tocollege but she stops and like
leans in the car and gives him ahug, but then it's her as a
four-year-old giving him a hugand I was just like that would

(01:06:39):
have made me cry.

Alban (01:06:40):
Yeah, it was.
Yeah, I didn't see that one ohgood, because kevin too kevin
just had a daughter go off tocollege a couple years ago, yeah
it was.

Jordan (01:06:47):
Don't watch it.
It was um unbearable.
It was so sad.

Kevin (01:06:51):
I think the most emotional for me was the
Harrison Ford Jeep commercialthat was epic.

Alban (01:06:57):
I have no idea what he said but, I, saw it was Harrison
Ford and Jeep and I was like Ilike both of those things.
So I texted my sister.
I liked that one.
She goes, that was a terriblecommercial and I was like but
it's Harrison.

Podnews Weekly Review (01:07:07):
Ford and.

Alban (01:07:08):
Jeep I like, but it's Harrison Ford and Jeep I like.
Why was it terrible?
I don't know.
I didn't see, I didn't hear it.
All I saw was him.

Kevin (01:07:14):
Oh, I thought it was good .
I mean, I thought it did a goodjob of like encapsulating the
spirit of Jeep and resonatingwith people who buy Jeeps.
Now, Alban, I know your sisteris this the sister that drives
the Jeep?
Yes, oh, and she didn't like it.
So maybe I'm completely off,maybe I'm wrong, maybe it
doesn't encapsulate people whodrive Jeeps, but I thought it
was very kind of like salt ofthe earth, like these are the

(01:07:36):
things that matter and bring ustogether.
And, uh, you know, we wave toeach other when we pass each
other on the road, even like,regardless of our differences,
this is something that unites us, our spirit of adventure and
all that kind of stuff.
And then I like the zinger atthe end and he said and this is
what I drive, even though myname is ford which was, I
thought that was cool yeahsomebody wrote that line and
went man, if we get harrison, Igot into this.