This week Cal talks about his new shotgun, gets into new legislation and the SHARKED Act with Virginia Rep. Wittman, and so much more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
From Mediators World News Headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is
Cal's weekend review, presented by Steel. Steel products are available
only at authorized dealers. For more, go to Steel Dealers
dot com. Now here's your host, Ryan cal callahan.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Shark Week may be mercifully over, but issues surrounding sharks
and recreational fishing aren't going anywhere. That's why we are
excited to talk to Virginia Representative Rob Whitman. Representative Whitman
represents Virginia's first district, and he just introduced a bill
in the US Congress. He calls and get ready for this,
the Supporting the Health of Aquatic Systems through Research, Knowledge
(00:45):
and Enhanced Dialogue Act, which, if you can't tell, is
a tortured acronym that shortens to the Sharked Act. The
Shark Act would create a federal task force to study
the effects of shark depredation, specif tzifically what we can
do to minimize shark depredation on recreational fishermen's catch. You
(01:06):
may remember a few weeks ago we covered a big
controversy involving a team of marlin anglers who had their
fish disqualified because it had been chewed on by a
shark breaking those tournament rules. Saltwater anglers know that's not
uncommon the tax map as sharks are referred to frequently
take their share of a fisherman's catch, and Representative Whitman
says this problem has gotten substantially worse in the last
(01:29):
five years. We had Representative Whitman on the show to
talk about sharks saltwater anglers and how these two groups
can coexist without minimizing the great work that's been done
to conserve sharks over the last few decades. The Shark
to Act Framework authorizes the Secretary of Commerce to establish
a task force composed of marine biologists and other experts
(01:50):
who will identify research opportunities, priorities, and funding for things
like shark stock assessments, how sharks become habituated to humans,
and what kinds of strategy can be used to minimize
human shark interactions. The bill mentions both harvesting more sharks
as well as non lethal deterrence amongst the possible future
management strategies. At one point, you'll hear us reference the
(02:13):
Magnuson Stevens Act. This is the primary law that governs
marine Fisheries Management in US Federal waters first past in
nineteen seventy six. The MSA fosters the long term biological
and economic sustainability of marine fisheries. Its objectives are to
prevent overfishing, rebuild overfish stocks, increase the long term economic
(02:33):
and social benefits, ensure a supply of seafood, and protect
fish habitat, among others. It's a huge law that's difficult
to change, but any alteration to shark management could involve
a change to Magnus and Stevens. As I've said, we've
got this super informational interview with Representative Whitman, and outside
of that all we got to my week and this week,
(02:57):
you know, had a great time swung through weatherby picked
up a brand Spankingoe O'Ryan side by side in twenty games.
That's right, two barrels, one sitting right there next to
the other one two triggers. Heck of a good price.
The thing fits great, it shoots great. I am so
excited to get out with at this fall with old Snorticus.
(03:19):
Then I went from there over to Buffalo, Wyoming and
sat in on a corner crossing listening session with the
Wyoming constituents who showed up. That was hosted by TRCP
and BHA. Great time over there at Bond Brewing. Super
informed constituency over there, Wyoming folks care about their access
(03:40):
and they should. Outside of that old Snortkis and I
have been hitting the trails hard, trying to get the
lungs and legs prepared for the upcoming seasons while avoiding
the heat. It's not going too bad. No measurable effect
on the beer gut, but the legs and lungs are
coming along, and of course the exercise makes the beer
taste better. Only thing you did was stop drinking beer.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah, I lost fifty pounds in one month. How much
beer were you drinking? I know right, probably too much.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
One last note before we move on to the interview. Hey, Texas,
What in the sam hill is going on down there?
I thought Texicans were big on freedom, but according to
all of your state representatives on up through your governor,
you are not. Recently, the Texas State Senate passed SB
one two three six, that state Bill twelve thirty six,
(04:32):
which makes it illegal to hunt public riverbeds and streams
using rifles, shotguns with slugs, and archery equipment unless those
bows were equipped with a real in line. During the
legislative session, this bill was opposed by various groups, including
the Texas Chapter of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. However, despite
the opposition, SB one two three six was passed unanimously.
(04:54):
That means everyone voted I and was signed into law
by the governor. This law has significant implications for hunting
access and opportunities. Remember, Texas, you have less than two
percent federally managed public lands and about the same and
state managed public lands. Hard to imagine giving up access
to what you have left. Lack of access is cited
(05:15):
by sportsmen and women in the United States is the
number one reason they stop pursuing their passions of hunting
and fishing. If you find this degradation of hunting access irksom,
please sign the petition at Backcountry Hunters dot org forward
slash save public hunting Opportunities on Texas waterways. All right, Phil,
(05:37):
let's hear about the sharkd Act. Representative Whipman, Yes, just
call me Rob please.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well, you know, our folks listening are not going to
be able to see what we're seeing on the video here.
But you look like a fishy, dude, I would say
your gun burnt or maybe a kissed is more appropriate description.
Wearing a fish and shirt and a fishing camp. Yes,
(06:09):
and I understand that perhaps some of this is coming
from your fishing background or personal experiences.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
That is correct, That is correct.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
I've worked for a number of years as I'm made
on a charter boat in the Outer Banks and also
in the Chesapeake Bay and an avid recreational fisherman, so
much of this has come from personal experience, whether it's
off the Carolinas or in Florida, or for that matter,
even on.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
The West Coast.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
This is.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
A problem that is really exploded in the past five
years as far as shark populations and what's happening to
recreational fisheries all across the spectrum. And it's not just
the charter boat fishery. It's also private recreational fishermen that
are dealing with this on a daily basis. So it's
pretty significant.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
And is this specific, Well, let's define what this is.
Is this a anti shark bill, No, it's not.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
It's really about recognizing the incredible job has been done
by resource managers, fisheries managers.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
In recovering this resource.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
You know, for years large coastal sharks we're at low
population levels.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I would argue today they're as.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
High a level both in biomass and in spawning biomass
as they have been at.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Least since we've been keeping records.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Of course, it would be nice to get a little
more scientific data on that, and that means we need
to do more recent stock assessments. But if you look
at this from an anecdotal standpoint, I would say the
body of evidence anecdotally with what fishermen are experiencing and
what we are seeing that there is a tremendous recovery
and shark population. So this is all about how do
(07:54):
we continue with healthy shark populations. And we know that
we're in the middle of shark we on Discovery, so
everybody is focused on sharks and shark populations and what
we're doing there.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
They're incredible creatures. But what we want to.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Make sure is somehow that there is a there's a
healthy coexistence, healthy as the scientific term goes, symbiotic relationship
with recreational fishermen, and I would argue that's not in
a symbiotic state right now.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It is in a state.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Where the sharks have a leg up and listen, the
sharks have become very conditioned to knowing where the easy
meals come from. And it used to be in certain
areas you know you could go. But if you moved
away from there, you can kind of get away from
the sharks. I mean, anybody's fished Marathon Lump knows you
go there to catch a black inn tuna. And you
know it used to be you could go there and
(08:45):
you might be able to get you know, fifty percent
of your tunas in. It's got to the point right
now where you get zero percent of your tunas in.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
You might get one out of fifteen.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
And right now, if you are, if you're in the sharks,
you just have to move because you know it's it's
a it's not a winning game.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
We're seeing the same thing off the banks.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Of paying the tax man. Right these you're hooking at
tuna and during that fight, those sharks key into that
fishing distress and hit that relatively easy meal versus a
free swimming tuna.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yes, yeah, in most situations, those sharks, although they're pretty
good swimmers, wouldn't be able to chase down a free
swimming tuna here. It's pretty easy for them to do that.
And it's not just tuna's there in Florida. It's off
the East coast. It's widespread on the East coast now
if you talk to charter fishermen there. It's also widespread
on the in short tarpainfishery. I know, I go tarpinfishing
(09:41):
in the springtime down in Florida, and whether it's big
hammer heads or schools of bull sharks, it's pretty pretty
incredible what happens there when you're there at Boca Grant
or any of those places. So it's widespread. It's also
bottom fishermen. It used to be you didn't have to
worry about that. Now you're fighting for your red snapper catch,
even if there's only a couple of days or snapper
(10:04):
season on.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
The East coast.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Now now you have to to try to find a
weather window to go. But now you've got to fight
the sharks for getting one or two fish on board.
So it's it's widespread, and we, you know, we have
to be able to address this. This is not about
killing sharks. This is about how do we find innovative
ways to coexist with sharks? How do we find ways
to to make sure that this isn't something that becomes
(10:29):
catastrophic for the recreational fishing industry, especially in these uh
in these coastal saltwater areas well.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, you know, I have to be honest with you.
I am speaking to you from a landlocked state Montana.
Jordan is in Texas. Everything in Texas is very hot
right now, and I'm sure he feels very far from
the from the water and the cool sea breeze. But
when we were first contacted, the response was, oh, shark
(10:59):
population are in decline. And you know that healthy shark
population is often an indicator of an overall healthy fishery.
And what I am seeing in the shark to act
is this isn't a direct address to the shark. It
is a kind of a call to arms to find
(11:21):
that data that you talked about. So establish a task
force to identify and address critical needs with respect to
shark depredation, asking for each regional Fishery Management Council to
have a representative, each Marine Fisheries Commission to have a
representative the Fish and Wildlife Agency from each coastal state.
Regional fishery management councils long way of saying, you're asking,
(11:47):
and probably if this were to pass, it would be
more than an ask, but a mandate to have somebody
who represents all interests at one table and get on
the same page as to some of these misnomers what
the population is doing in each region.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
That's that's absolutely correct. You know, we had a hearing
yesterday on the bill. The National Marine Fishery Service came
in and said, oh, no, don't worry about this, we're
looking at this. Well, if they were doing something that
was properly addressing the issue, then we wouldn't see this,
this incredible rise in shark depredation and people losing their catch.
(12:28):
So I want to make sure that we are, you know,
understanding what this is about. This is this is about
the proper balance the shark population issue and where it
is today and determining what do we do going forward.
You know, another thing too, is we have to understand
that a lot of the visions and ideas about where
(12:49):
shark populations are today are based on stock assessments that
are very old, so they are not current stock assessments. So,
you know, the first thing that needs to happen, I
believe and I think this panel will probably agree to
that is that, you know, how do we get the
most recent data on shark populations? And that's that's key,
and then from there what we have to do is
(13:10):
to make sure that we are making determinations about what
is the best step forward. I think if anybody talks
to recreational fishermen pretty much anywhere along the US coast,
they will find that these interactions with fishermen and sharks,
you know, have grown exponentially. So the question then becomes twofold.
(13:31):
First of all, what is it about shark populations that
is there today?
Speaker 3 (13:35):
What is it about behavior of sharks that has changed?
Speaker 4 (13:39):
And obviously they're opportunistic, you know, if they can get
an easy meal, they are going to do that.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So it's a matter of how do we address that.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
There's other folks that have tried different technologies out there,
and we know that it's been done to try to
prevent shark attacks. But you know, we're seeing this across
the spectrum. And again I understand that this is anecdotal,
but that's why we put this bill in trying to
get to some of the signs behind this. You know,
you see headlines all the time, what do you see
in the summertime more shark interactions along the coast with swimmers?
(14:09):
You see more and more that you see unbelievable pictures
and shallow coastal areas of large schools as shark black
fans and others.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
And people are going, wow, what in the world is
going on? So while all of that is.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Anecdotal, I think it should beg the scientific question, Okay,
what's going on with sharks and what do we do
about this? This is a human shark interaction. So whether
it's on a boat and eating somebody's catch before they
can get it to the boat, I would say it's
probably not a catch at that particular point, but it's
being angling experienced, or what's happening in these in these
(14:46):
interactions in coastal areas with swimmers.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
All those things I think need to be addressed.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, and how do we determine if there's a lopsided
shark population in certain areas or if the population as
a whole is you know, in an overabundant state is
a giant place. So it seems like you are really
(15:15):
trying to address that question, in particular in the Shark Act,
which I love to see I mean information is power here.
Do you foresee the ability for recreational anglers to participate
in the in the sharkd Act by providing kind of
(15:35):
citizen science information.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Absolutely, I think that's critically important.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
In fact, I've been a leader on the Natural Resources
Committee to make sure that as we gather information which
is required under the Magnus and Stevens Act to manage
these fish populations, is that it's not just the data
generated by fisheries managers and researchers in that realm, but.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
It's also data that we gather from fishermen.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
You know, fishermen have an incredible depth and wealth of data,
and while it may be observational, it's very easy to
be able to take it and structure it in a
way where it is it is objective data that can
be used very very skillfully in determining what's happening with populations.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
So yeah, we have to do both.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
We have to make sure that we do, you know,
the survey methodology to figure out what's out there, doing
very structured surveying sampling as they call it, but then
also use the information from fishermen, because the fishermen will
give you the breadth and depth of information about where
they are, where they're seeing these shark populations, and at
(16:39):
the very least that should inform fisheries managers about where
they should look towards how these populations of sharks are
manifesting themselves. So, you know, it's kind of the same
thing with the golf red snapper fishery. For years, the
fisheries managers would go out and they do these troll
surveys and say, oh, guess what, there're no red snapper
out there, And the fishermen would go, yeah, they're all
over the place and keep them off our hooks. And
(17:01):
it turned out that the fisheries managers were going to
sample in areas that weren't habitat for golf red snapper.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
They are.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
They are bottom fish that relate to bottom structure, and
if you fish out in areas where there's no bottom structure,
you're not going to find them. So I think at
the very least, recreational fishermen can do a great job
at in informing fisheries managers about where to go look
and do their sampling, their stock assessment to determine, you know,
(17:28):
the true depth and breadth of shark populations.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Sure makes sense to me other than the fact that
we all know fishermen are pretty good at spinning a
good yarn.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Right. Oh yeah, well listen. You know I've.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Got a couple of comments back on this, and that is,
you know, how do how do we how do we know?
You know these aren't fish stories to say, well, they're
just too many for there to be fish stories. And
then and then secondly too, the other comment I get is, well,
this is just sharks being sharks.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Well, yeh, it is. I mean, sharks are predators.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Sharks, you know, are going to take advantages, They're going
to be opportunistic feeders. But the question is is, you know,
what are the things that we can do to assure
that these economies and coastal areas that are dependent upon
very robust charter.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Fisheries can continue.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
People are not going to pay good money to go
out and you know, contribute their catch to the sharks.
You know, a lot of these charter captains that I
talked to say when we go out, you know, the
first one or two fish that get eaten by a
shark is kind of amusing for the folks on board.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
They'd like, you go, oh, that's cool.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
They said, but by the time you're into the fifth, sixth,
and seventh fish and there's nothing in the fish box
except you know, mouths and guilt covers of the fish
that you've hooked, all of a sudden, the amusement goes
right out the door. So I think it's incredibly important
for us to look at, you know what, what is
this issue, and it's it's more than sharks just being sharks,
(18:52):
and it's more than the element of saying, well, there
are a few fishmen that are telling some some some fishtails.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I think there's.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
A lot to this, and our effort is to try
to make sure that we are guiding this by a
very thoughtful collection of scientific data, and then from that
using that effort to determine what's what's what are the
best management decisions to make sure that we can minimize
You'll never do away with these interactions. You're never going
to be in a situation where sharks don't take somebody's catch.
(19:21):
But the key is is how do we how do
we look at different realms to be able to reduce
the impact on that. And it used to be it
was manageable even if it was fifty to fifty, but
you know now that it's you know, ninety ten or
ninety five five, it's becoming a problem.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Are you aware of you know, what management decisions that
could potentially be made off of this data deterrence or
you know, species specific harvest increases for some of these
shark species. What could an end result be in your opinion?
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Sure, well, listen, you know were there's a shark fishery,
it's it's very very small right now. In many instances,
a lot of folks have actually gotten out of the
commercial fishery for sharks for a whole variety of reasons.
And that's kind of a steparate discussion. But I think
that what this should do is to is to look at,
you know, where these shark populations are. They are they
(20:25):
focused on where these recreational fishing opportunities are, where these
other fish like tuness and others are are abundant, and
where fishermen go to catch them. And if that's the case,
let's look at, you know, some of the technology that's
out there. There's some technology that uses sound and other
(20:45):
energy sources to try to repel the sharks. And I've
talked to fishermen, some of them in certain situations are
are somewhat successful some and other situations are not.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
So I think it begs the question to look at
all the different.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
Opportunities and techechnology that you could use to reduce this
shark depredation. As I said, you're not going to you're
not going to completely eliminate it, but you know, to
look at what's what's what's the proper combination there. And
again I want to emphasize this is about making sure
that we sustain healthy shark populations. Nobody wants to go
(21:18):
in and say, well, let's let's catch all these sharks
out and reduce populations. We understand, you know that they're
an incredibly important part of the ecosystem, and you know,
these apex predators are pretty amazing.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
We absolutely want them to be there.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
The key is is how do we how do we
make sure that we can coexist? And I think that's
the key to this legislation is asking those questions, getting
that information so we can make sound management decisions on
how we have healthy, sustainable shark populations. But also those
great recreational fishing opportunities that people spend a lot of
(21:52):
money on each year. You know, whether it's tackle or
boats or those sorts of things incredibly important parts of
economies and coast hilarias for that matter.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
You know, even inland there are a lot of.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Boat companies in the inline areas that make boats that
these recreational fishermen purchase. And these are, you know, incredibly
expensive platforms. So we want to make sure that opportunity continues.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
And do you have We've we've kind of talked largely
about your constituency here and their experiences. Do you do
you have an experience of your own where you kind
of came to the hard fact conclusion of something's different
now than it was them.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
I have I you know, like I said, I do
some tarpain fishing down in Florida, and it used to
be occasionally you'd have an interaction with a shark and
a tarp and I've had a couple of times where
hammerheads have you know, chased down the tarpa and I'll
just open the bail and let the tarpat swim away
or sometimes try to break them off, although I don't
like to do that because today with these braids, if
(22:53):
you break off a long stretch of braid behind a fish,
it's not not good for them, So try to do that. Listen.
I was in Vocal Grand Pass one day and the
most incredible scene you could ever see, and that is
at a school of bull sharks, and these were big
bull sharks come up and eat a tarp and that
was probably about one hundred and thirty pounds and they
ate that tarpin all the way down to the guilt
(23:14):
plates in about forty five seconds, So just unbelievable. They
are Mother Nature's wonder when it comes to being.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Able to.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Eat and eat with a vengeance. So I've seen that
they had the same thing too. And I've gone puna
fishing and then two going out. It used to be
you could go out and go fishing for redfish or
red drum and you really never had to worry about
it because the red drum would be right in feeding
with the sharks many times. But I've had recently where
(23:47):
we've had big red fish forty or fifty pounds red
fish get eaten by sharks, and that's a new phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
So those are some personal experiences that I've.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Had that I look at and go, something has changed,
you know, it's not just changing a little bit around
the edges it's changing exponentially.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
That's interesting. And yeah, boy, the turpins beautiful fish and
you want to keep them around. They're long lived and uh,
you know, incredible sport fish. But watching a big red
drum get smashed and not being able to eat it
yourself is a different matter, right, So.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
It is, Yeah, that's that's table fair there. This is
the same with a tuna.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
You know, you look at it and you go a
I've waited, you know, for to go on that charter
fishing tribute, waiting in anticipation, and you your your you
can taste the you can taste the tuna, and then
all of a sudden gets your tuna.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
It's a little disappointing, absolutely, So you know, we've kind
of talked about a little bit of the framework here
and we'll definitely cover it a little bit deeper outside
of your time. I personally like what I'm seeing here.
You know again, it's a call to arms to provide
management specialists from all over to get to the same
(25:02):
table and look at this holistically is the word I
would use. And I really like that. Who likes this
and who doesn't like it? Who do you have support from?
Who is giving you a hard time on this one.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Well, listen, we've got a whole wide group of.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Organizations that are very focused on sustainable fisheries. Folks like
the American Sport Fishing Association, the Guy Harvey Foundation, and
there's no stronger proponent of healthy marine ecosystems than Guy Harvey.
Where also I have the National Marine Magnufacturers Association that
Teddy Rose about foundation. I mean, all of these are
(25:42):
organizations that are well known for their balanced and thoughtful
approach to fisheries management.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
So we've got wide spectrum across the board.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
There are a number of other groups too, and I'll
make sure that we send those to you, but those
are the I would say the four that I would
highlight as a really why in diverse group of organizations
that say, yeah, we need to look at this and listen.
They were very thoughtful and helpful in with us and
helping to craft the legislation. They said, listen, here are
the folks that you want to involve and trying to
(26:12):
get together the scientific body of knowledge to make the
best decisions on this. There's nobody in this group that says, hey,
let's go out and take out shark populations. Everyone there
understands the true value of sharks, but they want to
make sure that there's that balance.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
And where are we at in the progress of this legislation.
We heard you say that you've had one hearing or
can you just give us an idea on the timeline
and who would be the best people to call if
our listeners want to comment on the shark deck.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Absolutely well, it had a hearing in the subcommittee, which
is the first step for a bill to actually get
before the full committee and go through a process called
a markup, and that.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Is you bring the bill before the meeting.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
If anybody says, hey, I want to change this or
change that, they have an opportunity to submit amendments to
make changes to the bill. And then once the committee
reports it out, its next step is to go to
the House floor to be voted on, and then at
that particular point it would have to go over to
the Senate side in order for the Senate to pass
the bill. So we are at the very beginning stages
(27:23):
of the process. But the good news is that got
a hearing. We had a great group of witnesses and
I think all the members had some very very good
questions about what the bill does and how it's addressing
this issue of shark depredation and listening, shark depredation is
occurring everywhere, so it wasn't like members were saying, oh,
it's not occurring in my area. Every member that asked
(27:43):
the question was acknowledging the extent of the issues. So
that's where it is right now. We're hopeful here that
when we get back to Washington in September that it
is put on the full Committee's agenda, actually go through
the markup and get passed, and.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Then to be able to get to the House House floor.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Excellent, excellent, Well, be sure to keep us posted when
when we get to both the Senate and House level.
Would love to talk about this again.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
And we can also as part of your question too,
you asked who could your listeners contact.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
They can contact our office.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
You can just go to Whitman's w I T T
M AN dot house dot.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
G O V.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
And you can also contact other members of the Natural
Resource Committee, so you can go to.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
A US House of Representatives.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
You can go to that website and just go to
the Natural Resources Community and it'll give you a list
of those members. And in that list, it'll give you
their email addresses and their website, so you can Usually
there's a portal where there is a portal and all
their websites where you can go and send your comments
to them via emails. So I would go to and
you can Google if you want, you to go directly
(28:59):
to Natural Resource Committee US House of Representatives and that'll
give you the list and then they'll give you their
their email addresses and you can mail directly to the
members on the committee. And for for a lot of listeners,
these will be members that will be from from your
state or your commonwealth. So I think it's a great
opportunity to express your thoughts and ideas about this.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
That's fantastic. Thank you for that, and you know, obviously
very appreciative of your time. I got to tell you
that I just commit. The reason I'm looking a little
haggard and sweaty right now is I've committed to a
very expensive bluefin tune a trip. Oh yes, for spearfishing.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I got to shock my lungs back into shape so
I can get a decent breath hold and try to
keep up. You know, humans don't keep up very well
with bluefin, but you really don't have a chance that
your beer belly has grown to the size of mine.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
If I'm being on Mankeler, you are you going to
the Canadian waters there? You're going out to the west coast.
Where are you going to go to to try to spearfish?
Then West coast? West coast? Yeah, yeah, the bluefin fishery there.
What a phenomenal comeback the bluefin fishery there. I have
some friends of mine that fish out there, and the
recreational fishery and fishing opportunity there.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Is just off the hook.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
I mean, the number of three hundred pound plus bluefend
they're catching is just incredible.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Well, it's absolutely wild, it really is, and coming in
so close to shore, making them like very successible to
a lot of a lot of people, a lot of
different vessel sizes. So that's it is very exciting right now,
but also lots of great questions about that connectivity of
(30:40):
the ocean that you don't know a lot about.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
So right well, you know, you talk about the West
coast there.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
I used to do a lot of long range fishing
out of San Diego on the long range boats there,
and we would go to to several fishing locations there
and when we would have notoriously great whites.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Would hang out around the boat and they would take
take their.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
Pick of the yellowfin tuna that that that we were
that we were catching, So quite quite the experience there,
of course, that was that was pretty neat because it
was a single shark and there was only so much
the shark would do, and a lot of times they'd
come and eat a few tunas and they you know,
it doesn't take long after they ate, you know, three
four five eighty pound tunas before they said okay. Even
(31:21):
even the biggest sharks say okay, I'm full, I'm gone.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
You know.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
These other situations are multiple, multiple sharks. So but it
was it's still an amazing thing to see. And sometimes
two the sharks would just show up with the boat
and have no interest in eating.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
They just were curious. So but nothing nothing like a
big great white.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
And that's something that you know, listeners should know is
these are amazing animals. They are amusing. I certainly feel
fortunate when I get to see them, especially speaking from
a landlocked state. But just as a comparative example, I
went out on Lake Erie last week and fished with
(32:00):
a friend of mine and was having so much fun
catching a big drum, big white drum.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Oh yeah, oh like crazy.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
They're great, but there's not a lot of people targeting
them and taking them home specifically, so they are an
overabundant population and for all the good experiences that they provide,
eventually you get sick of catching them. And yes, more
folks were taking them home.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
So well, listen, I appreciate you all's interest in this.
We'll make sure that we keep you plugged in, keep
your listeners plugged in too. You know, this is a
this is really you know, there's two parts of this.
How there's one and that is what an incredible management
success story in the recovery of these shark populations. And
now the key is is, you know, how do we
(32:49):
take the next step? And that is strike that balance,
that symbiotic relationship between you know, fishermen and sharks. And
I think there's a tremendous amount of respect for fishermen
that they have for these sharks and how incredible they are.
And the kid is, how do we do that in
ways that we can enjoy the sharks and enjoy our
opportunity to go fishing.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
That's all I've got for you. This week. Thank you
so much for listening. Remember to write end to ask
C A L. That's ask Cal at the Meat Eater
dot com and let me know what's going on in
your neck of the woods. On top of that, be
prepared for hunting season by getting yourself a clean, quiet,
battery operated steel chainsaw. If you're confused on what you need,
(33:34):
go to www dot steel dealers dot com. Find a local,
knowledgeable steel dealer near you. They're gonna get you set
up with what you need and they won't try to
send you home with what you don't. Thanks again and
I'll talk to you next week.
From Mediators World News Headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is
Cal's weekend review, presented by Steel. Steel products are available
only at authorized dealers. For more, go to Steel Dealers
dot com. Now here's your host, Ryan cal callahan.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Shark Week may be mercifully over, but issues surrounding sharks
and recreational fishing aren't going anywhere. That's why we are
excited to talk to Virginia Representative Rob Whitman. Representative Whitman
represents Virginia's first district, and he just introduced a bill
in the US Congress. He calls and get ready for this,
the Supporting the Health of Aquatic Systems through Research, Knowledge
(00:45):
and Enhanced Dialogue Act, which, if you can't tell, is
a tortured acronym that shortens to the Sharked Act. The
Shark Act would create a federal task force to study
the effects of shark depredation, specif tzifically what we can
do to minimize shark depredation on recreational fishermen's catch. You
(01:06):
may remember a few weeks ago we covered a big
controversy involving a team of marlin anglers who had their
fish disqualified because it had been chewed on by a
shark breaking those tournament rules. Saltwater anglers know that's not
uncommon the tax map as sharks are referred to frequently
take their share of a fisherman's catch, and Representative Whitman
says this problem has gotten substantially worse in the last
(01:29):
five years. We had Representative Whitman on the show to
talk about sharks saltwater anglers and how these two groups
can coexist without minimizing the great work that's been done
to conserve sharks over the last few decades. The Shark
to Act Framework authorizes the Secretary of Commerce to establish
a task force composed of marine biologists and other experts
(01:50):
who will identify research opportunities, priorities, and funding for things
like shark stock assessments, how sharks become habituated to humans,
and what kinds of strategy can be used to minimize
human shark interactions. The bill mentions both harvesting more sharks
as well as non lethal deterrence amongst the possible future
management strategies. At one point, you'll hear us reference the
(02:13):
Magnuson Stevens Act. This is the primary law that governs
marine Fisheries Management in US Federal waters first past in
nineteen seventy six. The MSA fosters the long term biological
and economic sustainability of marine fisheries. Its objectives are to
prevent overfishing, rebuild overfish stocks, increase the long term economic
(02:33):
and social benefits, ensure a supply of seafood, and protect
fish habitat, among others. It's a huge law that's difficult
to change, but any alteration to shark management could involve
a change to Magnus and Stevens. As I've said, we've
got this super informational interview with Representative Whitman, and outside
of that all we got to my week and this week,
(02:57):
you know, had a great time swung through weatherby picked
up a brand Spankingoe O'Ryan side by side in twenty games.
That's right, two barrels, one sitting right there next to
the other one two triggers. Heck of a good price.
The thing fits great, it shoots great. I am so
excited to get out with at this fall with old Snorticus.
(03:19):
Then I went from there over to Buffalo, Wyoming and
sat in on a corner crossing listening session with the
Wyoming constituents who showed up. That was hosted by TRCP
and BHA. Great time over there at Bond Brewing. Super
informed constituency over there, Wyoming folks care about their access
(03:40):
and they should. Outside of that old Snortkis and I
have been hitting the trails hard, trying to get the
lungs and legs prepared for the upcoming seasons while avoiding
the heat. It's not going too bad. No measurable effect
on the beer gut, but the legs and lungs are
coming along, and of course the exercise makes the beer
taste better. Only thing you did was stop drinking beer.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah, I lost fifty pounds in one month. How much
beer were you drinking? I know right, probably too much.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
One last note before we move on to the interview. Hey, Texas,
What in the sam hill is going on down there?
I thought Texicans were big on freedom, but according to
all of your state representatives on up through your governor,
you are not. Recently, the Texas State Senate passed SB
one two three six, that state Bill twelve thirty six,
(04:32):
which makes it illegal to hunt public riverbeds and streams
using rifles, shotguns with slugs, and archery equipment unless those
bows were equipped with a real in line. During the
legislative session, this bill was opposed by various groups, including
the Texas Chapter of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. However, despite
the opposition, SB one two three six was passed unanimously.
(04:54):
That means everyone voted I and was signed into law
by the governor. This law has significant implications for hunting
access and opportunities. Remember, Texas, you have less than two
percent federally managed public lands and about the same and
state managed public lands. Hard to imagine giving up access
to what you have left. Lack of access is cited
(05:15):
by sportsmen and women in the United States is the
number one reason they stop pursuing their passions of hunting
and fishing. If you find this degradation of hunting access irksom,
please sign the petition at Backcountry Hunters dot org forward
slash save public hunting Opportunities on Texas waterways. All right, Phil,
(05:37):
let's hear about the sharkd Act. Representative Whipman, Yes, just
call me Rob please.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well, you know, our folks listening are not going to
be able to see what we're seeing on the video here.
But you look like a fishy, dude, I would say
your gun burnt or maybe a kissed is more appropriate description.
Wearing a fish and shirt and a fishing camp. Yes,
(06:09):
and I understand that perhaps some of this is coming
from your fishing background or personal experiences.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
That is correct, That is correct.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
I've worked for a number of years as I'm made
on a charter boat in the Outer Banks and also
in the Chesapeake Bay and an avid recreational fisherman, so
much of this has come from personal experience, whether it's
off the Carolinas or in Florida, or for that matter,
even on.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
The West Coast.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
This is.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
A problem that is really exploded in the past five
years as far as shark populations and what's happening to
recreational fisheries all across the spectrum. And it's not just
the charter boat fishery. It's also private recreational fishermen that
are dealing with this on a daily basis. So it's
pretty significant.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
And is this specific, Well, let's define what this is.
Is this a anti shark bill, No, it's not.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
It's really about recognizing the incredible job has been done
by resource managers, fisheries managers.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
In recovering this resource.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
You know, for years large coastal sharks we're at low
population levels.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I would argue today they're as.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
High a level both in biomass and in spawning biomass
as they have been at.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Least since we've been keeping records.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Of course, it would be nice to get a little
more scientific data on that, and that means we need
to do more recent stock assessments. But if you look
at this from an anecdotal standpoint, I would say the
body of evidence anecdotally with what fishermen are experiencing and
what we are seeing that there is a tremendous recovery
and shark population. So this is all about how do
(07:54):
we continue with healthy shark populations. And we know that
we're in the middle of shark we on Discovery, so
everybody is focused on sharks and shark populations and what
we're doing there.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
They're incredible creatures. But what we want to.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Make sure is somehow that there is a there's a
healthy coexistence, healthy as the scientific term goes, symbiotic relationship
with recreational fishermen, and I would argue that's not in
a symbiotic state right now.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It is in a state.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Where the sharks have a leg up and listen, the
sharks have become very conditioned to knowing where the easy
meals come from. And it used to be in certain
areas you know you could go. But if you moved
away from there, you can kind of get away from
the sharks. I mean, anybody's fished Marathon Lump knows you
go there to catch a black inn tuna. And you
know it used to be you could go there and
(08:45):
you might be able to get you know, fifty percent
of your tunas in. It's got to the point right
now where you get zero percent of your tunas in.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
You might get one out of fifteen.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
And right now, if you are, if you're in the sharks,
you just have to move because you know it's it's
a it's not a winning game.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
We're seeing the same thing off the banks.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Of paying the tax man. Right these you're hooking at
tuna and during that fight, those sharks key into that
fishing distress and hit that relatively easy meal versus a
free swimming tuna.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yes, yeah, in most situations, those sharks, although they're pretty
good swimmers, wouldn't be able to chase down a free
swimming tuna here. It's pretty easy for them to do that.
And it's not just tuna's there in Florida. It's off
the East coast. It's widespread on the East coast now
if you talk to charter fishermen there. It's also widespread
on the in short tarpainfishery. I know, I go tarpinfishing
(09:41):
in the springtime down in Florida, and whether it's big
hammer heads or schools of bull sharks, it's pretty pretty
incredible what happens there when you're there at Boca Grant
or any of those places. So it's widespread. It's also
bottom fishermen. It used to be you didn't have to
worry about that. Now you're fighting for your red snapper catch,
even if there's only a couple of days or snapper
(10:04):
season on.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
The East coast.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Now now you have to to try to find a
weather window to go. But now you've got to fight
the sharks for getting one or two fish on board.
So it's it's widespread, and we, you know, we have
to be able to address this. This is not about
killing sharks. This is about how do we find innovative
ways to coexist with sharks? How do we find ways
to to make sure that this isn't something that becomes
(10:29):
catastrophic for the recreational fishing industry, especially in these uh
in these coastal saltwater areas well.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, you know, I have to be honest with you.
I am speaking to you from a landlocked state Montana.
Jordan is in Texas. Everything in Texas is very hot
right now, and I'm sure he feels very far from
the from the water and the cool sea breeze. But
when we were first contacted, the response was, oh, shark
(10:59):
population are in decline. And you know that healthy shark
population is often an indicator of an overall healthy fishery.
And what I am seeing in the shark to act
is this isn't a direct address to the shark. It
is a kind of a call to arms to find
(11:21):
that data that you talked about. So establish a task
force to identify and address critical needs with respect to
shark depredation, asking for each regional Fishery Management Council to
have a representative, each Marine Fisheries Commission to have a
representative the Fish and Wildlife Agency from each coastal state.
Regional fishery management councils long way of saying, you're asking,
(11:47):
and probably if this were to pass, it would be
more than an ask, but a mandate to have somebody
who represents all interests at one table and get on
the same page as to some of these misnomers what
the population is doing in each region.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
That's that's absolutely correct. You know, we had a hearing
yesterday on the bill. The National Marine Fishery Service came
in and said, oh, no, don't worry about this, we're
looking at this. Well, if they were doing something that
was properly addressing the issue, then we wouldn't see this,
this incredible rise in shark depredation and people losing their catch.
(12:28):
So I want to make sure that we are, you know,
understanding what this is about. This is this is about
the proper balance the shark population issue and where it
is today and determining what do we do going forward.
You know, another thing too, is we have to understand
that a lot of the visions and ideas about where
(12:49):
shark populations are today are based on stock assessments that
are very old, so they are not current stock assessments. So,
you know, the first thing that needs to happen, I
believe and I think this panel will probably agree to
that is that, you know, how do we get the
most recent data on shark populations? And that's that's key,
and then from there what we have to do is
(13:10):
to make sure that we are making determinations about what
is the best step forward. I think if anybody talks
to recreational fishermen pretty much anywhere along the US coast,
they will find that these interactions with fishermen and sharks,
you know, have grown exponentially. So the question then becomes twofold.
(13:31):
First of all, what is it about shark populations that
is there today?
Speaker 3 (13:35):
What is it about behavior of sharks that has changed?
Speaker 4 (13:39):
And obviously they're opportunistic, you know, if they can get
an easy meal, they are going to do that.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So it's a matter of how do we address that.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
There's other folks that have tried different technologies out there,
and we know that it's been done to try to
prevent shark attacks. But you know, we're seeing this across
the spectrum. And again I understand that this is anecdotal,
but that's why we put this bill in trying to
get to some of the signs behind this. You know,
you see headlines all the time, what do you see
in the summertime more shark interactions along the coast with swimmers?
(14:09):
You see more and more that you see unbelievable pictures
and shallow coastal areas of large schools as shark black
fans and others.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
And people are going, wow, what in the world is
going on? So while all of that is.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Anecdotal, I think it should beg the scientific question, Okay,
what's going on with sharks and what do we do
about this? This is a human shark interaction. So whether
it's on a boat and eating somebody's catch before they
can get it to the boat, I would say it's
probably not a catch at that particular point, but it's
being angling experienced, or what's happening in these in these
(14:46):
interactions in coastal areas with swimmers.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
All those things I think need to be addressed.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, and how do we determine if there's a lopsided
shark population in certain areas or if the population as
a whole is you know, in an overabundant state is
a giant place. So it seems like you are really
(15:15):
trying to address that question, in particular in the Shark Act,
which I love to see I mean information is power here.
Do you foresee the ability for recreational anglers to participate
in the in the sharkd Act by providing kind of
(15:35):
citizen science information.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Absolutely, I think that's critically important.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
In fact, I've been a leader on the Natural Resources
Committee to make sure that as we gather information which
is required under the Magnus and Stevens Act to manage
these fish populations, is that it's not just the data
generated by fisheries managers and researchers in that realm, but.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
It's also data that we gather from fishermen.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
You know, fishermen have an incredible depth and wealth of data,
and while it may be observational, it's very easy to
be able to take it and structure it in a
way where it is it is objective data that can
be used very very skillfully in determining what's happening with populations.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
So yeah, we have to do both.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
We have to make sure that we do, you know,
the survey methodology to figure out what's out there, doing
very structured surveying sampling as they call it, but then
also use the information from fishermen, because the fishermen will
give you the breadth and depth of information about where
they are, where they're seeing these shark populations, and at
(16:39):
the very least that should inform fisheries managers about where
they should look towards how these populations of sharks are
manifesting themselves. So, you know, it's kind of the same
thing with the golf red snapper fishery. For years, the
fisheries managers would go out and they do these troll
surveys and say, oh, guess what, there're no red snapper
out there, And the fishermen would go, yeah, they're all
over the place and keep them off our hooks. And
(17:01):
it turned out that the fisheries managers were going to
sample in areas that weren't habitat for golf red snapper.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
They are.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
They are bottom fish that relate to bottom structure, and
if you fish out in areas where there's no bottom structure,
you're not going to find them. So I think at
the very least, recreational fishermen can do a great job
at in informing fisheries managers about where to go look
and do their sampling, their stock assessment to determine, you know,
(17:28):
the true depth and breadth of shark populations.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Sure makes sense to me other than the fact that
we all know fishermen are pretty good at spinning a
good yarn.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Right. Oh yeah, well listen. You know I've.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Got a couple of comments back on this, and that is,
you know, how do how do we how do we know?
You know these aren't fish stories to say, well, they're
just too many for there to be fish stories. And
then and then secondly too, the other comment I get is, well,
this is just sharks being sharks.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Well, yeh, it is. I mean, sharks are predators.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Sharks, you know, are going to take advantages, They're going
to be opportunistic feeders. But the question is is, you know,
what are the things that we can do to assure
that these economies and coastal areas that are dependent upon
very robust charter.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Fisheries can continue.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
People are not going to pay good money to go
out and you know, contribute their catch to the sharks.
You know, a lot of these charter captains that I
talked to say when we go out, you know, the
first one or two fish that get eaten by a
shark is kind of amusing for the folks on board.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
They'd like, you go, oh, that's cool.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
They said, but by the time you're into the fifth, sixth,
and seventh fish and there's nothing in the fish box
except you know, mouths and guilt covers of the fish
that you've hooked, all of a sudden, the amusement goes
right out the door. So I think it's incredibly important
for us to look at, you know what, what is
this issue, and it's it's more than sharks just being sharks,
(18:52):
and it's more than the element of saying, well, there
are a few fishmen that are telling some some some fishtails.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I think there's.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
A lot to this, and our effort is to try
to make sure that we are guiding this by a
very thoughtful collection of scientific data, and then from that
using that effort to determine what's what's what are the
best management decisions to make sure that we can minimize
You'll never do away with these interactions. You're never going
to be in a situation where sharks don't take somebody's catch.
(19:21):
But the key is is how do we how do
we look at different realms to be able to reduce
the impact on that. And it used to be it
was manageable even if it was fifty to fifty, but
you know now that it's you know, ninety ten or
ninety five five, it's becoming a problem.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Are you aware of you know, what management decisions that
could potentially be made off of this data deterrence or
you know, species specific harvest increases for some of these
shark species. What could an end result be in your opinion?
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Sure, well, listen, you know were there's a shark fishery,
it's it's very very small right now. In many instances,
a lot of folks have actually gotten out of the
commercial fishery for sharks for a whole variety of reasons.
And that's kind of a steparate discussion. But I think
that what this should do is to is to look at,
you know, where these shark populations are. They are they
(20:25):
focused on where these recreational fishing opportunities are, where these
other fish like tuness and others are are abundant, and
where fishermen go to catch them. And if that's the case,
let's look at, you know, some of the technology that's
out there. There's some technology that uses sound and other
(20:45):
energy sources to try to repel the sharks. And I've
talked to fishermen, some of them in certain situations are
are somewhat successful some and other situations are not.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
So I think it begs the question to look at
all the different.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
Opportunities and techechnology that you could use to reduce this
shark depredation. As I said, you're not going to you're
not going to completely eliminate it, but you know, to
look at what's what's what's the proper combination there. And
again I want to emphasize this is about making sure
that we sustain healthy shark populations. Nobody wants to go
(21:18):
in and say, well, let's let's catch all these sharks
out and reduce populations. We understand, you know that they're
an incredibly important part of the ecosystem, and you know,
these apex predators are pretty amazing.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
We absolutely want them to be there.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
The key is is how do we how do we
make sure that we can coexist? And I think that's
the key to this legislation is asking those questions, getting
that information so we can make sound management decisions on
how we have healthy, sustainable shark populations. But also those
great recreational fishing opportunities that people spend a lot of
(21:52):
money on each year. You know, whether it's tackle or
boats or those sorts of things incredibly important parts of
economies and coast hilarias for that matter.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
You know, even inland there are a lot of.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Boat companies in the inline areas that make boats that
these recreational fishermen purchase. And these are, you know, incredibly
expensive platforms. So we want to make sure that opportunity continues.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
And do you have We've we've kind of talked largely
about your constituency here and their experiences. Do you do
you have an experience of your own where you kind
of came to the hard fact conclusion of something's different
now than it was them.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
I have I you know, like I said, I do
some tarpain fishing down in Florida, and it used to
be occasionally you'd have an interaction with a shark and
a tarp and I've had a couple of times where
hammerheads have you know, chased down the tarpa and I'll
just open the bail and let the tarpat swim away
or sometimes try to break them off, although I don't
like to do that because today with these braids, if
(22:53):
you break off a long stretch of braid behind a fish,
it's not not good for them, So try to do that. Listen.
I was in Vocal Grand Pass one day and the
most incredible scene you could ever see, and that is
at a school of bull sharks, and these were big
bull sharks come up and eat a tarp and that
was probably about one hundred and thirty pounds and they
ate that tarpin all the way down to the guilt
(23:14):
plates in about forty five seconds, So just unbelievable. They
are Mother Nature's wonder when it comes to being.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Able to.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Eat and eat with a vengeance. So I've seen that
they had the same thing too. And I've gone puna
fishing and then two going out. It used to be
you could go out and go fishing for redfish or
red drum and you really never had to worry about
it because the red drum would be right in feeding
with the sharks many times. But I've had recently where
(23:47):
we've had big red fish forty or fifty pounds red
fish get eaten by sharks, and that's a new phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
So those are some personal experiences that I've.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Had that I look at and go, something has changed,
you know, it's not just changing a little bit around
the edges it's changing exponentially.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
That's interesting. And yeah, boy, the turpins beautiful fish and
you want to keep them around. They're long lived and uh,
you know, incredible sport fish. But watching a big red
drum get smashed and not being able to eat it
yourself is a different matter, right, So.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
It is, Yeah, that's that's table fair there. This is
the same with a tuna.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
You know, you look at it and you go a
I've waited, you know, for to go on that charter
fishing tribute, waiting in anticipation, and you your your you
can taste the you can taste the tuna, and then
all of a sudden gets your tuna.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
It's a little disappointing, absolutely, So you know, we've kind
of talked about a little bit of the framework here
and we'll definitely cover it a little bit deeper outside
of your time. I personally like what I'm seeing here.
You know again, it's a call to arms to provide
management specialists from all over to get to the same
(25:02):
table and look at this holistically is the word I
would use. And I really like that. Who likes this
and who doesn't like it? Who do you have support from?
Who is giving you a hard time on this one.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Well, listen, we've got a whole wide group of.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Organizations that are very focused on sustainable fisheries. Folks like
the American Sport Fishing Association, the Guy Harvey Foundation, and
there's no stronger proponent of healthy marine ecosystems than Guy Harvey.
Where also I have the National Marine Magnufacturers Association that
Teddy Rose about foundation. I mean, all of these are
(25:42):
organizations that are well known for their balanced and thoughtful
approach to fisheries management.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
So we've got wide spectrum across the board.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
There are a number of other groups too, and I'll
make sure that we send those to you, but those
are the I would say the four that I would
highlight as a really why in diverse group of organizations
that say, yeah, we need to look at this and listen.
They were very thoughtful and helpful in with us and
helping to craft the legislation. They said, listen, here are
the folks that you want to involve and trying to
(26:12):
get together the scientific body of knowledge to make the
best decisions on this. There's nobody in this group that says, hey,
let's go out and take out shark populations. Everyone there
understands the true value of sharks, but they want to
make sure that there's that balance.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
And where are we at in the progress of this legislation.
We heard you say that you've had one hearing or
can you just give us an idea on the timeline
and who would be the best people to call if
our listeners want to comment on the shark deck.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Absolutely well, it had a hearing in the subcommittee, which
is the first step for a bill to actually get
before the full committee and go through a process called
a markup, and that.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Is you bring the bill before the meeting.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
If anybody says, hey, I want to change this or
change that, they have an opportunity to submit amendments to
make changes to the bill. And then once the committee
reports it out, its next step is to go to
the House floor to be voted on, and then at
that particular point it would have to go over to
the Senate side in order for the Senate to pass
the bill. So we are at the very beginning stages
(27:23):
of the process. But the good news is that got
a hearing. We had a great group of witnesses and
I think all the members had some very very good
questions about what the bill does and how it's addressing
this issue of shark depredation and listening, shark depredation is
occurring everywhere, so it wasn't like members were saying, oh,
it's not occurring in my area. Every member that asked
(27:43):
the question was acknowledging the extent of the issues. So
that's where it is right now. We're hopeful here that
when we get back to Washington in September that it
is put on the full Committee's agenda, actually go through
the markup and get passed, and.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Then to be able to get to the House House floor.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Excellent, excellent, Well, be sure to keep us posted when
when we get to both the Senate and House level.
Would love to talk about this again.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
And we can also as part of your question too,
you asked who could your listeners contact.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
They can contact our office.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
You can just go to Whitman's w I T T
M AN dot house dot.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
G O V.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
And you can also contact other members of the Natural
Resource Committee, so you can go to.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
A US House of Representatives.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
You can go to that website and just go to
the Natural Resources Community and it'll give you a list
of those members. And in that list, it'll give you
their email addresses and their website, so you can Usually
there's a portal where there is a portal and all
their websites where you can go and send your comments
to them via emails. So I would go to and
you can Google if you want, you to go directly
(28:59):
to Natural Resource Committee US House of Representatives and that'll
give you the list and then they'll give you their
their email addresses and you can mail directly to the
members on the committee. And for for a lot of listeners,
these will be members that will be from from your
state or your commonwealth. So I think it's a great
opportunity to express your thoughts and ideas about this.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
That's fantastic. Thank you for that, and you know, obviously
very appreciative of your time. I got to tell you
that I just commit. The reason I'm looking a little
haggard and sweaty right now is I've committed to a
very expensive bluefin tune a trip. Oh yes, for spearfishing.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I got to shock my lungs back into shape so
I can get a decent breath hold and try to
keep up. You know, humans don't keep up very well
with bluefin, but you really don't have a chance that
your beer belly has grown to the size of mine.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
If I'm being on Mankeler, you are you going to
the Canadian waters there? You're going out to the west coast.
Where are you going to go to to try to spearfish?
Then West coast? West coast? Yeah, yeah, the bluefin fishery there.
What a phenomenal comeback the bluefin fishery there. I have
some friends of mine that fish out there, and the
recreational fishery and fishing opportunity there.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Is just off the hook.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
I mean, the number of three hundred pound plus bluefend
they're catching is just incredible.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Well, it's absolutely wild, it really is, and coming in
so close to shore, making them like very successible to
a lot of a lot of people, a lot of
different vessel sizes. So that's it is very exciting right now,
but also lots of great questions about that connectivity of
(30:40):
the ocean that you don't know a lot about.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
So right well, you know, you talk about the West
coast there.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
I used to do a lot of long range fishing
out of San Diego on the long range boats there,
and we would go to to several fishing locations there
and when we would have notoriously great whites.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Would hang out around the boat and they would take
take their.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
Pick of the yellowfin tuna that that that we were
that we were catching, So quite quite the experience there,
of course, that was that was pretty neat because it
was a single shark and there was only so much
the shark would do, and a lot of times they'd
come and eat a few tunas and they you know,
it doesn't take long after they ate, you know, three
four five eighty pound tunas before they said okay. Even
(31:21):
even the biggest sharks say okay, I'm full, I'm gone.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
You know.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
These other situations are multiple, multiple sharks. So but it
was it's still an amazing thing to see. And sometimes
two the sharks would just show up with the boat
and have no interest in eating.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
They just were curious. So but nothing nothing like a
big great white.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
And that's something that you know, listeners should know is
these are amazing animals. They are amusing. I certainly feel
fortunate when I get to see them, especially speaking from
a landlocked state. But just as a comparative example, I
went out on Lake Erie last week and fished with
(32:00):
a friend of mine and was having so much fun
catching a big drum, big white drum.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Oh yeah, oh like crazy.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
They're great, but there's not a lot of people targeting
them and taking them home specifically, so they are an
overabundant population and for all the good experiences that they provide,
eventually you get sick of catching them. And yes, more
folks were taking them home.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
So well, listen, I appreciate you all's interest in this.
We'll make sure that we keep you plugged in, keep
your listeners plugged in too. You know, this is a
this is really you know, there's two parts of this.
How there's one and that is what an incredible management
success story in the recovery of these shark populations. And
now the key is is, you know, how do we
(32:49):
take the next step? And that is strike that balance,
that symbiotic relationship between you know, fishermen and sharks. And
I think there's a tremendous amount of respect for fishermen
that they have for these sharks and how incredible they are.
And the kid is, how do we do that in
ways that we can enjoy the sharks and enjoy our
opportunity to go fishing.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
That's all I've got for you. This week. Thank you
so much for listening. Remember to write end to ask
C A L. That's ask Cal at the Meat Eater
dot com and let me know what's going on in
your neck of the woods. On top of that, be
prepared for hunting season by getting yourself a clean, quiet,
battery operated steel chainsaw. If you're confused on what you need,
(33:34):
go to www dot steel dealers dot com. Find a local,
knowledgeable steel dealer near you. They're gonna get you set
up with what you need and they won't try to
send you home with what you don't. Thanks again and
I'll talk to you next week.
Host
Cal Callaghan
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