October 29, 2023 • 42 mins
This week Cal talks Backcountry Hunters and Anglers Armed Forces Initiative. What they do, what you can expect, and where to find them.
Connect with Cal and MeatEater
MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube
Shop Cal's Week in Review Merch
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
From Mediators World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is
Cal's weekend review, presented by Steel. Steel products are available
only at authorized dealers. For more, go to Steel Dealers
dot com. Now here's your host, Ryan cal Callahan.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Recently, an Aspen, Colorado, a black bear wandered into the
Saint Regis Aspen Resort, where rooms are currently being booked
at an average of sixty three dollars a night. The
black bear knocked down and scratched a security guard in
the kitchen of the hotel. Reports from the concierge says
people are livid. Part of the pricing is due to
(00:45):
the exclusivity of the resort. How dare they let that
bear in?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
What could be more important than a little something to
eat or perhaps a little large or something.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
This week, We've got a special interview with a new
series that I'm doing that may or may not coincide
with some personal hunting trips, but nevertheless will be good
information for you. We're doing a series on conservation groups,
What you need to know, why you want to be involved,
a little mini expose as so you can figure out
(01:19):
what group you want to be involved with or groups
you want to be involved with. I myself have a
member of a bunch of different conservation groups. So yeah,
this week talking with Backcountry Hunters and Anglers Armed Forces Initiative.
I just spent a week down the Idaho Desert with
these fellas courtesy of a special project involving the famous
(01:41):
Elk Camino ed Anderson invention that is meant to be
a vehicle no pun, intended for getting veterans in the outdoors.
Very cool project, great group of guys. Have a listen.
Let me know what you think at askcl at the
meeater dot com as well as what group you want
(02:02):
to hear from next. All right, another special edition of
Cal's Week in Review. I'm sitting down with BHA's Armed
Forces Initiative led by Trevor Hubbs and Trevor What is
b h A a FI?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, so, back Country Hunters and Anglers Armed Forces Initiative
is the BHA program focused on active duty military, veterans, Reserves,
National Guard, and Gold Star families to help get them
out into the backcountry parts of the United States and
Canada and teach them how to recreate.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And what it's a veterans organization is that how you'd
you'd characterize it.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Generally, yes, just because it's easier for folks to understand
that its veterans. But technically we are all encompassing, including
active duty, reserves, National Guards. But if everybody gets lumped
in together veterans, the easiest way to say it great.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So what there's tons of veterans organizations out there. What's
the thing that differentiates afi from all the other ones?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
I think there's a lot that differentiates us. But the
main thing that we do different is we are not
focused on once in a lifetime experiences. We're not focused
on let's go get this sixty inch bull moose in
Alaska or this two hundred inch white tail in Illinois.
It's can we teach our participants how to go and
(03:37):
find those things?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Like, if we take them out into let's say it's
a white tail hunting event, how do I teach them
how to read sign, where they're going to put their
stand up, why they're putting their stand There a little
bit of biology ecology around white tails that will help
them go secure a white tail for themselves without depending
on any other group to take them or anybody else
(03:59):
to take them, making them more independent in the outdoors awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So yeah, there's a little bit of a it's replicable. Yeah, Exactly,
Folks who show up for an event or get involved
don't need to rely on that on AFI to go
do that thing.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Exactly what we're trying to avoid is man, I never
want any of our participants to say, Man, yeah, I
went hunting a few years ago with this nonprofit and
it was a great time. I want them to say, yeah,
I went hunting last week or I went fishing last
week and it was a blast, because we've taught them
something that they can do the next weekend or the
next season, and we've given them another group of similar
(04:43):
minded individuals to go out with in the military community
local to them.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So in addition to the skills, what else is going
on at AFI? Like what is a somebody who's new
to AFI A like, how do they start out?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Like?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
What's the one, two three?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Sure? So step one would be you're on the BHA
website or you're on Instagram and you see a post
rum us where we post all of our events for
the year. In twenty twenty three, we have one hundred
and forty six events scheduled to occur. So step one
is find an event that is either local to you
or that you would like to attend and apply. It's
(05:23):
a real simple application process. Name military status, where you live,
that kind of thing, why you're interested in attending. We
roughly get about fifty applicants per event. Normally we could
take between five and fifteen, depending on the activity that
we're trying to accomplish at the event. Step two is
(05:45):
you get invited to the event, So that should occur
eight to twelve weeks prior to the events. All right,
so if this is a July fly fishing event, you
know about it in May or even late April. You're
going to have multiple zoom style calls, sometimes on teams.
Sometimes they're on zoom with the event leader, someone like
Sean McCarthy. If you're in Washington, who's going to walk
(06:05):
you through? This is the packing list? I want you
to bring. What do you have, what don't you have?
And then we know what we as a as the
program can provide them. If you show up in jeans
and a T shirt, that's fine. We can get you
the rest of the stuff. We just need to know
long enough ahead with your sizes and all that stuff,
so you'll be fine, and then step three show up
to the event, have a great time, and that's about it.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And so is that what folks can expect coming into
a FIS is a great time?
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Uh huh, I mean they're all a great time for me.
It's a lot of type too, fun Like what do
we do yesterday? Twenty eight miles on the prairie walking
through cactus and sage and at the time you're thinking
about the bottoms of your feet and how sore you are,
but afterwards you're thinking about, man, that was a cool
herd antelope. So some cool birds we saw the great
dog work. I mean, you are going to go out
(06:59):
there and work. We don't do these catered events. There's
nobody with a platter of whiskey and cigars. When you're
done hunting, there's a guy with a grill that is
cooking cheeseburgers or tacos or whatever we're having that night
for dinner. Like we'll take care of you. All the food, water,
drinks you need is all set. But there's no special
(07:19):
treatment here.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
So that's like the event side of things. What where
do folks go from there?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
It's a great question. Well, yeah, go ahead, sehn.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Yeah, yeah, I've actually got a success story in Washington
from one of our events. We've had had some guys
recycle through with different volunteer events, and next thing, you know,
they pick up on some of the lessons that we
passed out during the course of a camp or a
one oh one style of an event, and then they
(07:50):
tap in and ask a couple of questions just kind
of really less well, I would be lying not to
tell you that we do little storytelling, but a lot
of its storytelling hinged with in the field, actual hands on,
boots on ground training these attendees on what they're looking
(08:13):
for or what they're looking at, or how to access
certain pieces of land, the difference between dn r BLM
National Forest permitting required to certain areas and certain trailheads.
And then furthermore, you know, let's say, for example, this
specific individual, he was cutting his teeth on Northwest blacktail hunting,
(08:36):
and although he didn't necessarily come to a blacktail specific camp,
we gave a backcountry one on one scouting class in
which we had about fifty sixty attendees on a zoom class,
and we talked all those things that I just mentioned,
(08:57):
and then we went specific in two different species, whether
be black bear, roosevelt elk, or high buck mule deer,
and even touched a little bit on the blacktail since
it's such a hot, popular thing to do in western Washington.
And he managed to pick up enough of that, all
(09:20):
those tidbits on that, and then we vetted through on
folks that were able to make the part two of
that event a few weeks after that, which was an
actual in the field.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
We took.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
The first go around half a dozen attendees into the
back country of North Peak Wilderness near Mount Rainier National
Park and they got to see firsthand all the things
that we talked about in a controlled classroom setting some
of the storytelling camp the night before, and then they
could actually see it. It was a tangible thing in
front of them, and they were able to take some
(09:56):
notes and asked questions. We had a couple of really,
really good, solid mentors that came in to help us out,
and then that individual went off tweaked on the skills
that he had learned, the knowledge that he had gained,
and the biggest reward for us, and you know, I'm
sure I'm speaking for a lot of fellow liaisons out
(10:18):
there is about two months later, we got a text
message that here he is with his first blacktail buck,
first buck ever, you know, and he attributed a lot
of that success to some of the things that we
taught him. And here he is now an active member
within AFI, and he's actually one of our active duty
(10:38):
guys and volunteering and looking to continue to grow his
skill sets.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Very cool. Yeah, And how did you get involved with AFI? Sean?
Speaker 5 (10:47):
So, I have been a member with BHA for probably
about seven years. It appealed to me just because of
public land, you know. And I moved around a lot
in the military. I lived in three of the four
corners of this country and just needed a public place
to hunt. And when I moved back out west after
living in New England and getting into these expansive places
(11:09):
that we were lucky enough to have out here, I
could see where the protections kind of needed to be
made and whatnot real quickly, and it just gravit. I
just gravitated to it. And so as time went on,
I retired from the service about five and a half
(11:30):
years ago.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And what branch were you in.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
I did twenty four years in the Navy. I was
a submarine torpedomen, which kind of saw me here, there
and everywhere. Not a lot of hunting and fishing on
a submarine, I'll tell you that, but it did finally
find me back in the Great Northwest, and having left
the military, I had a lot more time on my hands.
(11:56):
I started to get out and hunt and fish a
lot lot more because I wasn't deploying, I wasn't going
to see, not going on travel, and started to learn
a lot rEFInd the skills that I'd had over probably
two decades, you know, even though I did twenty four
or only about twenty of it. I was able to
(12:17):
get outside when I could, you know, over that span.
And I saw a turkey hunting one on one class
that the Armed Forces Initiative was putting on in Washington
with the National Wild Turkey Foundation. The president for NWTF
and Washington's also a Navy vet, and I said, huh,
that's kind of like mine. And I'm a pretty good
(12:38):
turkey hunter, but I could always you know, buff and
polish some skills, maybe get a hippin of information, who knows,
maybe meet somebody that's hunting the same area, you know,
little networking. And the presentation that NWTF was great, did
was great, and then THEFI presentation was spot on, you know,
(13:01):
it was it was marrying that public land advocacy and
importance with kind of that service above self that a
lot of us see in practice throughout the military. And
I'm seeing two things that I cared for deeply, you know,
just the military in general and then the outdoors. And
(13:22):
I said, well, this is perfect and I've got time.
I've got time. My kids were getting a little bit older,
we had a little bit more time around the home,
saw me at home a lot more, and I said,
you know, how do how do I get involved with this?
And so I started emailing and got in touch with Trevor,
I got in touch with Ryan and whatnot from BHA.
(13:44):
And next thing, you know, I said, well, how can
I help? Where do you need me? And a little
bit of Q and a figuring out who I was,
my background, and next thing, you know, yeah, I'm the
liaison for the State of Washington, you know, for AFI
and bridge that gap between our military community as well
as the State chapter of BHA and seeing how we
(14:07):
can mutually benefit from each other. And in turn, you know,
we're taking these military folks and turning them into a conservationists,
which is a pretty awesome thing when you get an
individual from a place like Oklahoma or Kansas that comes
up to the Northwest and next thing you know, now
he or she is in love with that, and that's
(14:27):
a huge thing to do.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And Dan, it sounds like from our talking earlier, that's
kind of how you're dipping your toe under the AFI
side of things.
Speaker 6 (14:36):
Absolutely right, yeah, absolutely, this event here is what kicked
me in the butt to finally get the membership done.
And I've actually known Sean for a lot of years now.
We serve together in the Navy, and I've been looking
for an organization to get involved with and I've done
some work with some other veterans groups here and there,
(15:01):
but I really wanted to find where I belong to
I guess make the most benefit in what organization was
actually doing things for veterans in the bigger picture of BHA,
what they're doing for public land access conservation, so that
like I'm looking at my family, I had two boys
and a wife that hunt, and I want to see
(15:21):
opportunity for them down the road. And so the fact
that BHA has the AFI side, I get to do
both and like I said, I'm just getting started, but
I definitely see a big future for myself getting involved.
Shawn's on the west side of Washington. I'm on the
east side, which some people might know almost like two
(15:44):
different states. But I'm looking to get involved and get
some stuff going on that side of the state.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
And I was just kind of making funny year earlier
because you're a submarine guy too, right, Yes, sir, do
you guys like sub mariner or is it submariner or
does anybody care?
Speaker 5 (16:01):
Well at this point, at this point, it's kind of
water under the bridge, but we'll go with submariner.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
You know you'll you'll hear some guys say submarriner, and
so am I not a good mariner?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
So yeah, submariner and they always affection it bubble head.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Yes, you can never go wrong with bubblehead.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Where what is bubblehead? Where does that come from?
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Well, we're kind of breathing in a big steel bubble,
you know, a few hundred feet out below the surface.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, but uh yeah, right, Like the jokes is like
it's no surprise as to why the outside means so
much to Damn because he spent twenty years in a
submarine and now he works inside a dam Yeah. Yeah,
it's like you're afraid of light kind of.
Speaker 6 (16:48):
I mean the damn I can at least go up
top and see the boats out fishing, just to you know,
hurt myself a little bit more at work.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
But but yeah, and a lot of similarities.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
That's pretty funny. That's pretty funny. So yeah, what do
we want to accomplish by working with AFI?
Speaker 6 (17:04):
So I moved to eastern Washington about three years ago.
I was I was a Western Washington guy, uh for
like about fifteen years, did my last like twelve years
up in Bangor Submarine base. And so I made a
lot of connections over on that side. A lot of people,
other active duty guys and veterans got me out into
the Northwest because I moved from Hawaii to the Northwest.
(17:27):
So that was pretty big change right there. And I'd
grown up in Nevada, so I had some experience with
like some of these big mountains and stuff. But you know,
the Northwest is a completely different animal than the Southwest.
And so those guys got me out, got me kicked
and going. And now that I moved to I made
(17:48):
all those connections over there and do you know social media,
it's really easy to keep track of people now. And
I moved to the East Side, and since moving there,
I made a lot of other connections to some veterans
organizations that are local, like to the Winatchi area, and
also to like people that have no involvement with veterans organizations,
(18:08):
were involved in the outdoors and they love to help
out vets and so you know, it's like that networking. Like,
so I got all these guys that I was talking
to Sean earlier. I'm like, I know all these people
on the East Side. I can make phone calls to
maybe get some things going, find some places we can
do stuff, and so I'm looking to bring that to
(18:29):
the table.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And then but you know, we talked a lot about
Washington politics, right the Washington Game Commission. What are you
hoping to get done by being a part of this
organization on the advocacy front, we'd call it.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
So one thing personally, like I have now I have
Trevor's phone number, and Trevor's a pretty smart guy that
can probably point you in the direction or point me
in the direction of some like better information. Better ways
to communicate better is to maybe even listen to the
political and business aspects side of what's going on, because
(19:06):
like it was kind of a thing in our camps.
I've always had the conversations like just because you scream
the loudest doesn't mean you get listened to. It's better
to have that two way conversation and learning, I guess
learning from these guys that have been kind of involved
in BHA in general on how to listen and how
to communicate to get the message to our representatives, and
(19:30):
also maybe two guys that don't want to listen to
stuff being able to talk to them more on a
one to one on like kind of our redneck level,
and because that's what it's going to take to make
effective change, I think absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
I couldn't agree more. I mean, not to hijack Dan here,
but you know, one of the big things for me
with that is getting that military community in front of
that commission and explaining to these commission members, you know,
even even if it's a letter, you know, a statement,
that this means something to me, this this loss of
(20:07):
this UH trail, this UH this species you know that's
doing well and I can't can't pursue it or this landscape.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Well, you had the spring bear hunting right. Oh yeah,
everybody was telling you you're going to drive this year.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
I was there. I was there, I had uh I
had Wanaha in my sights, and I had the magic
points to get it, and I was and I was
out of the Navy, and I had the vacation time
and uh yeah that that's no longer there. And it
was a it was a lot of miles, a lot
of scouting back and forth and helping other folks in
(20:43):
that area. And uh, I absolutely fell in love with
the Blue Mountains down in the southeast part of the state.
And they needed to hear that from me. You know this,
this is important to me. This is important. There's there's
guys out there and gals out there that they go
into these wild places and this is kind of what
they do. And if they don't have that, you know,
that's that's kind of a loss of an important thing
(21:05):
to a service member. And I think they need to
kind of.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Hear that from your guys' experience, What like, what is
the outdoors doing for veterans? We always hear of suicide
rates and and obviously all these organizations exist more than
likely for a reason. But from the folks sitting at
(21:30):
this table, like what what niche is that fulfilling? What
is getting done? Like, dude, are you aware of folks
who need help? And are these organizations helping?
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Yes, yes, and yes. So for example, I got to
see or didn't get to see, but there was a
tech received by one of our camp leaders a while back.
One of the attendees. You know, he showed up. He participated,
very jovial, very positive attitude, positive mental focus, was really
(22:14):
active throughout the whole thing. I wasn't there. I didn't
get to see that individual, never even met this person,
But I did get to read about about that camp
in the the after action report that that camp lead
submitted and sounded like it was a great event. Well
he he reached out after the fact and said, you know,
(22:37):
this is what I needed. I was in an extremely
dark place and this was probably going to be one
of the last times that I recreate in a place
like this, and to participate in something like this a
hunt and that camp leads it, Oh no, man, we
literally just taught you how to do X. You know,
you can you know whether it's a snow goose hunt
(22:58):
or a age grouse hunt like we just did, or
a white tail hunt down in North Carolina, or duck
hunt up in New England. You know, we could we
teach you how to do this. You know, you've got
the tools and the skills. Now he says, no, I
don't think you understand, you know. And he was in
such a dark place and so so lost that that
(23:20):
was going to be his last hunt. And all of
us liaisons found out about that, and I mean it
resonates with all of us me personally. The very first
AFI camp that I went to, it was awesome. You know,
it was a South Dakota pheasant hunt. Was lucky enough
(23:42):
to get selected to go. I'd already done a couple
of smaller events in Washington, and I really wanted to
see how things were done and kind of kind of
learned how to run my own event up there and
get the flavor. And there was there was an individual
there's a very similar case. And then after the fact,
we we found out that that dude really needed that
(24:03):
you know, not as deep dark as a place, but uh,
he he needed he needed that service connection. Again, because
a lot of us leave the military and we leave
the community.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Uh, and uh that.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
We were used to. We kind of lose that identity
and a lot of folks have trouble with that, you
know when you know he's living in the middle of
the country and he was stationed on the coast his
entire time.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
You know, so well that that's an interesting thing from
like the civilian perspective, right, It's like I feel like
b h A has always been like very welcoming of anybody,
you know, It's it's it's the big tent perspective, right,
like like if you want to be outside you know
where your crew, Oh absolutely, you want to you know,
(24:52):
you want to learn how to cook or you know
how to cook, and you can teach us something that's great,
all the all the thanks the skills, and so it
was a question of mine of like, well, this group
is already so welcoming, why is it a need to
have something like military specific And wouldn't it even be
(25:19):
better if we got these veterans in here just mixing
with this, you know, civilian population that has never been
in the military. So what is the need for that
continued military connection?
Speaker 5 (25:37):
I think if I plants that seed for growth into
that veteran or active duty to get into the big
tent with the civilian side of BHA. But what I
think it is, it's a bird of a bird of
a feather. You know, I speak Navy, I don't speak
army trever and I have a hard time talking military.
(25:58):
Help be us with Yeah, I've learned a lot over
the past year and a half. Though, there's a common
thread amongst the branches, and we're able to receive messages
better from each other. You know, we tend to we
tend to do a little bit of tough love, but
we don't promote promote it in the camps.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
We tend to.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Tend to be a little a lot more direct, you know,
and it's pretty well received there by our veteran community.
And then we go, hey, by the way, you're good
with this, Well, guess what. Here's your here's your Arkansas
state chapter, here's your Colorado state chapter. And you know,
it takes off from there, and.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
That's the end goal, right, Like a perfect event is
we take you out into the wild places of the
United States or Canada and we show you an amazing
time engaging with that environment, whether it's hunting, fishing, trapping,
whatever the case for that event. And the second part
of that is, you have such a good time that
(27:04):
you can't help but get engaged with conservation, right and
ideally want everybody to go be a BHA member, Go
engage with the local chapter. Go see wow, I really
had a great time on the Saint Croix River smallmouth fishing.
How is the Wisconsin and Minnesota BHA chapters helping protect
this watershed? And what can I do with my veteran
(27:25):
voice to help in that fight? Right, That's the natural progression,
and we've seen it pre AFI in BHA. Two of
BHA's founders were military members, right, so we've seen this.
In fact, that rendezvous last year, we had a large fundraiser,
fancy dinner. It's like six hundred dollars a plate or something.
Think on the silent auction for that dinner, we raised
(27:46):
eighty three thousand dollars and sixty two thousand of that
eighty three came from members of this military community. So
once you engage, then once you can teach our participants
how they can use their voice to continue serving their country,
like sky's the limit, they can become some of BHA's
best volunteers.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
And I think we've shown that AFI doing that is
there some built in training to become an advocate or
work on those communication skills that Dan was talking about.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Absolutely there is. It's once we get you through your
first event, what we're seeing is about ninety percent of
folks come back right because we have the action after
action review, like Sean says, But there's no break in
the communication. So once you attend event, you're on a
text chain like very simply just a text group with
all of the people that attend to that event. And
(28:40):
having run so many events, I think I'm on a
hundred of these text change now on my phone. But
people are always talking, right, Like so our Great Lakes
group from from the Boundary Waters trip two years ago
are continuing like, hey, did this legislation get passed? Great,
what's the next step? How do we stop this next
mining proposal?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Right?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
And then they feed into their the Soda chapter and
really make that happen. Like that's where we see this
growth is BHA already has such well, it's developed programs
for training people and how to become a conservation of
how to become a habitat steward or a policy advocate.
Right that all AFI really needs to do is just
(29:20):
help walk them through that BHA door and all the
tools are there. Does that make sense I answer your question?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think you know. The thing
that I was getting at is, as we've talked about
a bunch in the in the past, is like the
there's a lot of places people can go for a party,
and is that what AFI is providing is is just
another another party for for the veterans, right, And it's like,
(29:49):
what is the thing that's going to carry this through
and and that is developing those skills where you can
be an effective advocate. No right, for these resources, making
sure they're around for dance kids. Sure, making sure that
they're around for these guys that are getting out of
you know, twenty year careers where they really weren't afforded
(30:10):
a whole lot of time to get out and do stuff.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Absolutely. I mean that's all of our camps are dry
camps just because we were here to do a job.
We're here to focus. I don't want people sleeping in
and missing part of the camp that so many volunteers
worked for you to put on. And I don't want
to put any pressure on people, especially with the trend
of dependency in the military community. But This isn't let's
(30:36):
go hang out in a wall tent and drink beers
and maybe somebody shoots an elk. This is let me
teach you how to go do this over and over
again for the rest of your life. And by doing that,
what w ends up happening is we create a highly passionate,
highly engaged cadre of AFI BHA members that cannot help
but go get involved like Sean was in Sean justin
(30:58):
the entire Washington crew we have has just been that
you've played them on your podcast before, Like they come
out and you teach them, Like you just give a
guy a hammer and all of a sudden he's out
trying to build a house. They're just so passionate this.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
These guys after it.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
They're killing it. You know, it was really heartwarming to
see these guys. Next thing, you know, they're they're interfacing
with other state chapter members. Heck, I think one of
them went on a fishing trip with one, you know,
and I didn't talk about fishing up and Brewster. But
my guy now can talk about fishing up and Brewster.
Why some of that access in the issues that the
(31:30):
fish that go into there are so important that's that's
pretty heartwarming.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
That's a win absolutely. I mean that's the goal. So
if you want the trip of a lifetime, if you
want somebody to take you walleye fishing or salmon fishing
or whatever, we're probably not the group for you. If
you want to learn how to go develop these skills
and then ideally be able to get to a point
where you can teach those skills to others and just
be involved in the conservation conversation, right like whether that
(31:56):
passion lies and policy like we're seeing in Washington, or
whether like Colorado where they're just they put one hundred
and twenty Army combat engineers on a fence pole project
because that's one guy came. He's like, Hey, I serve
in a company of activity combat engineers. We can get
this done a lot faster. Let's go do this right.
So they're engaged in stewardship and habitat improvement. And then
you have folks like North Carolina where our goal down there,
(32:20):
not our goal, but the participants down there, they're hole
into Wow, this deer hunting, turkey hunting made such an
impact on me. How do I share this with more
members of the military community. So they're very are three focused,
and I don't necessarily care which one you focus on.
I just want you, as a veteran, you, as a
member of this military community, to feel empowered like you
(32:40):
have the tools, the capability and the training to go
continue to serve your country, because that's what I think
we all need internally, That's what my need is. That's
why I'm here. Is oh something bigger.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
I agree. You know, you do four years, you do
twenty four years. You have a sense of service about you.
That's just, you know, it's just part of who you are.
It's beat into you by military service. And you get out.
Some folks get lost with it, you know. And I
think this is an excellent opportunity for engagement of those
(33:12):
folks and in some ways help transition into civilian life
and be better than productive members of Sicilian civilian life.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
It's a reconnection from the disconnection. Oh that's a good
way to put it.
Speaker 6 (33:26):
Because someone like Sean was alluding to a lot of
guys the time and service the job identifies them and
or or you know, I say guys, but guys and gals,
and when they leave, some people have a really hard
time finding the new identity and this is a good
(33:46):
way to kind of mix both and find your happy
place after that four years, twenty years, thirty years, whatever
it is.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
And Nan, you said that you'd gotten in touch with
some other veterans groups, Uh, some sort when you first
got back to Washington.
Speaker 6 (34:06):
Uh, not when I first gotten It's more towards my
retirement time in Washington, when I started kind of like, hey,
I'm actually gonna have time to maybe go out and
do some stuff. And and because like for me, it
was like work and then family is really outdoorsy, and
then and then trying to get like given back time.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
So so you're kind of like trying to network with
some of these groups to uh just kind of find
some more recreational opportunities a little bit.
Speaker 6 (34:34):
Uh No, not for myself. It was well, when I
initially got to Washington, it was just learning the area.
Then there were there were no outdoor veteran groups back
in like two thousand and six that if they if
they were there, I don't even know about them. You know,
it was really before like social media and anything like that.
So it was all just like literally I was in
(34:55):
the smoke pit with a guy on Friday and he's like, Hey,
I'm gonna go deer hunting to and I'm like, man,
I'd love to go to your i'n't have done that
in like twelve years. And he's like, well, you want
to go? And that was like my first Washington hunting trip.
And that later that night we're in a minivan going
in by mountaineer in the dark, almost hidden elk and
(35:16):
freezing our butts off intent and that's when I'm like, wow,
I have no gear. That's for Washington and uh but
it was ethic because that guy took me out and
he was another active duty guy. So the Metroans organizations
now out there are are connecting us and in like
an organized manner, which what military guys we like organization, right,
(35:38):
And uh so it it's a lot easier to find
something and for I guess groups to find you too,
uh nowadays than.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
It used to be. So I hope that answer is
what you're asking there.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Oh, yeah, that that's that's good. I think you know this,
uh topics not a new one. We talk about it
pretty consistently and certainly lots of other people do too,
and I you know, I think that there's still a
lot of people out there looking for their community. And
(36:13):
so the more we can talk about how you guys
found a community, that's there's gonna be some touch points
out there for other people that go, oh yeah, yeah,
I can see reaching out because of that, even though
I don't need to for all these other reasons. Yeah yeah,
but I love a new hunting spot. You know.
Speaker 6 (36:33):
It's like a lot of things, like I guess, like
we talk and focus kind of like young guys, guys
just retiring to that. But I've like I've taken guys
fishing on my boat that were like Vietnam vets that
they just got involved with somebody and they were so
happy to like be with another serviceman, even though like
they're all going to be my grandpa.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
You know. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
So it it's it's it's a big opportunity to touch
a lot of people and the right way.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
But it's, uh, the folks, folks that do this professionally
v a professional psychiatrist. They've been trying to describe the
bond that the soldiers, sale, sailors, airman, marine get for
you know, hundreds of years since warfare has existed, because
it's always something super strange, uh, to people because it's not.
We call it brotherhood, but it's not the same. I
(37:21):
got't treat my brother the same way that I treat
you guys, and we didn't even serve together, correct, right,
But it's it's some like weird mix between like closer
than a brother, but not quite a wife like. It's
some part. I call it the trauma bond. Is the
is the new zeitgeist word or whatever the catchy phrase,
but it's uh. The best way that I can put
(37:42):
it is when I was in the Army, there was
a guy in our unit, and everybody in the unit
was this way with this exact example. He had pneumonia,
so he missed a training Rock march. Totally allowed to
miss the march. Man like medics said, you're sick. You're
sick every night in the barracks. While sick, he put
it rock on and walked around the barracks building because
he was confined to barracks until he made up all
(38:04):
twelve miles of that march. Because he didn't want anybody
else in that unit to think he was lacking, because
he didn't want to be the one the weak link
in the chain. And I know when I look at
you guys that you have that same inside piece to
you like all the AFI members do. And it's you
walk into an AFI event and you can immediately feel
like you can trust that guy. Yeah, he can trust you,
(38:26):
you can trust you whatever.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
There's a silent bond very quick after that initial conversation.
It's interesting, it is, it is, it really is.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
So yeah, best way to get involved.
Speaker 5 (38:38):
Well, for the state of Washington, we got one heck
of a social media presence going. You can find us
on Instagram, you can find us on Facebook. Feel free
to email me WAAFI at backhuntry Hunters dot org. We
look at the website, go to the BHA website and
you can find the Armforce initiative there and there's points
(39:02):
of contact right there.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
No Armed Forces Initiative, all spelled out at Backcountry Hunters
dot org. Every one of our emails gets answered in
the field about two hundred days a year, so it
doesn't get answered fast, but I promise you it will
get answered. We just brought on administrative assistant, so things
are speeding up. But please reach out. Reach out if
you're interested, reach out if you know somebody who's interested.
(39:26):
Worst case, reach out if you can help us. We're
always looking for mentors, photographers, cooks, like even if you
don't want to hunt at all, but you're like, man,
I don't mind slinging some burgers for some guys. We'd
love to help.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
And speaking of help, if there is one branch of
the military that would need help spelling initiative, if they
were to write in, what would it be, I'll let
you ever go first.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Yeah, yeah, that would be the Marine Corps. Okay, I
mean I'm not great at spelling either, but Army Infantry,
Marine Corps, Infantry where we're cut from the same cloth.
The We did have cow saw it at a BHA event.
We had these flyers printed out and Garrett, who was
one of our members of our board, Marine Corps, highly
(40:10):
educated guy, misspelled conservation in about size seventy two font
on the front page of the trifold. And the problem
it's not on him because he sent it to me.
He sent it to a couple other members of the board,
like some officers, some senior n CEOs that are like,
they'll catch it. But in our minds we're like, yeah,
Garret used to work at the Pentagon. Of course he's
gonna nail this. Like I don't need you this, so
we all messed it up. But the letters are in
(40:33):
the wrong order, but the message is the same.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
Man, he's really driving marines on that one.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Yeah, I mean I was only asking because I listened
to you guys give each other crap all.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Week, so that's how it goes.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (40:44):
If not giving each other crap, that's when you need
to be scared.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
Right, I got to disagree with whichever marines are Department
of the Navy, and we're pretty darn smart, So it's
the army they need the most help. That's where there's
only four letters in their name.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
That's fair.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
And then yeah, I guess just to wrap up the thing,
like so if even if you're not a member of
b h A or b h A A F I
if would it be appropriate for folks to just write
in ask questions or even if they had a something
going on that they wanted folks to tackle, I e.
Like you know, an issue, an access issue, at legislative issue,
(41:22):
something like that. Still cool to write in and chat
you guys up.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Oh absolutely, Well that's what we're here for.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Greed.
Speaker 5 (41:30):
Yes, that just makes all of it better.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
No, awesome, that's all I've got for you this week.
Thank you so much for listening. Remember to write in
to ask c A L. That's ask Cal at the
Meat Eater dot com. And remember, get yourself a clean,
quiet steel chainsaw. They'll save your butt at least once
a year. And then you know you can help clean
(41:54):
up the yard and do things that make you look
good around the house too, and you'll look like a pro.
Because it says steal, type into the Google machine www
dot steel Dealers dot com. Find a local, knowledgeable steel
dealer near you. They're gonna get you set up with
what you need. They won't try to send you home
with what you don't. Thanks again, I'll talk to you
next week.
From Mediators World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is
Cal's weekend review, presented by Steel. Steel products are available
only at authorized dealers. For more, go to Steel Dealers
dot com. Now here's your host, Ryan cal Callahan.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Recently, an Aspen, Colorado, a black bear wandered into the
Saint Regis Aspen Resort, where rooms are currently being booked
at an average of sixty three dollars a night. The
black bear knocked down and scratched a security guard in
the kitchen of the hotel. Reports from the concierge says
people are livid. Part of the pricing is due to
(00:45):
the exclusivity of the resort. How dare they let that
bear in?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
What could be more important than a little something to
eat or perhaps a little large or something.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
This week, We've got a special interview with a new
series that I'm doing that may or may not coincide
with some personal hunting trips, but nevertheless will be good
information for you. We're doing a series on conservation groups,
What you need to know, why you want to be involved,
a little mini expose as so you can figure out
(01:19):
what group you want to be involved with or groups
you want to be involved with. I myself have a
member of a bunch of different conservation groups. So yeah,
this week talking with Backcountry Hunters and Anglers Armed Forces Initiative.
I just spent a week down the Idaho Desert with
these fellas courtesy of a special project involving the famous
(01:41):
Elk Camino ed Anderson invention that is meant to be
a vehicle no pun, intended for getting veterans in the outdoors.
Very cool project, great group of guys. Have a listen.
Let me know what you think at askcl at the
meeater dot com as well as what group you want
(02:02):
to hear from next. All right, another special edition of
Cal's Week in Review. I'm sitting down with BHA's Armed
Forces Initiative led by Trevor Hubbs and Trevor What is
b h A a FI?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, so, back Country Hunters and Anglers Armed Forces Initiative
is the BHA program focused on active duty military, veterans, Reserves,
National Guard, and Gold Star families to help get them
out into the backcountry parts of the United States and
Canada and teach them how to recreate.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And what it's a veterans organization is that how you'd
you'd characterize it.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Generally, yes, just because it's easier for folks to understand
that its veterans. But technically we are all encompassing, including
active duty, reserves, National Guards. But if everybody gets lumped
in together veterans, the easiest way to say it great.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So what there's tons of veterans organizations out there. What's
the thing that differentiates afi from all the other ones?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
I think there's a lot that differentiates us. But the
main thing that we do different is we are not
focused on once in a lifetime experiences. We're not focused
on let's go get this sixty inch bull moose in
Alaska or this two hundred inch white tail in Illinois.
It's can we teach our participants how to go and
(03:37):
find those things?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Like, if we take them out into let's say it's
a white tail hunting event, how do I teach them
how to read sign, where they're going to put their
stand up, why they're putting their stand There a little
bit of biology ecology around white tails that will help
them go secure a white tail for themselves without depending
on any other group to take them or anybody else
(03:59):
to take them, making them more independent in the outdoors awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So yeah, there's a little bit of a it's replicable. Yeah, Exactly,
Folks who show up for an event or get involved
don't need to rely on that on AFI to go
do that thing.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Exactly what we're trying to avoid is man, I never
want any of our participants to say, Man, yeah, I
went hunting a few years ago with this nonprofit and
it was a great time. I want them to say, yeah,
I went hunting last week or I went fishing last
week and it was a blast, because we've taught them
something that they can do the next weekend or the
next season, and we've given them another group of similar
(04:43):
minded individuals to go out with in the military community
local to them.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So in addition to the skills, what else is going
on at AFI? Like what is a somebody who's new
to AFI A like, how do they start out?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Like?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
What's the one, two three?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Sure? So step one would be you're on the BHA
website or you're on Instagram and you see a post
rum us where we post all of our events for
the year. In twenty twenty three, we have one hundred
and forty six events scheduled to occur. So step one
is find an event that is either local to you
or that you would like to attend and apply. It's
(05:23):
a real simple application process. Name military status, where you live,
that kind of thing, why you're interested in attending. We
roughly get about fifty applicants per event. Normally we could
take between five and fifteen, depending on the activity that
we're trying to accomplish at the event. Step two is
(05:45):
you get invited to the event, So that should occur
eight to twelve weeks prior to the events. All right,
so if this is a July fly fishing event, you
know about it in May or even late April. You're
going to have multiple zoom style calls, sometimes on teams.
Sometimes they're on zoom with the event leader, someone like
Sean McCarthy. If you're in Washington, who's going to walk
(06:05):
you through? This is the packing list? I want you
to bring. What do you have, what don't you have?
And then we know what we as a as the
program can provide them. If you show up in jeans
and a T shirt, that's fine. We can get you
the rest of the stuff. We just need to know
long enough ahead with your sizes and all that stuff,
so you'll be fine, and then step three show up
to the event, have a great time, and that's about it.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And so is that what folks can expect coming into
a FIS is a great time?
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Uh huh, I mean they're all a great time for me.
It's a lot of type too, fun Like what do
we do yesterday? Twenty eight miles on the prairie walking
through cactus and sage and at the time you're thinking
about the bottoms of your feet and how sore you are,
but afterwards you're thinking about, man, that was a cool
herd antelope. So some cool birds we saw the great
dog work. I mean, you are going to go out
(06:59):
there and work. We don't do these catered events. There's
nobody with a platter of whiskey and cigars. When you're
done hunting, there's a guy with a grill that is
cooking cheeseburgers or tacos or whatever we're having that night
for dinner. Like we'll take care of you. All the food, water,
drinks you need is all set. But there's no special
(07:19):
treatment here.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
So that's like the event side of things. What where
do folks go from there?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
It's a great question. Well, yeah, go ahead, sehn.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Yeah, yeah, I've actually got a success story in Washington
from one of our events. We've had had some guys
recycle through with different volunteer events, and next thing, you know,
they pick up on some of the lessons that we
passed out during the course of a camp or a
one oh one style of an event, and then they
(07:50):
tap in and ask a couple of questions just kind
of really less well, I would be lying not to
tell you that we do little storytelling, but a lot
of its storytelling hinged with in the field, actual hands on,
boots on ground training these attendees on what they're looking
(08:13):
for or what they're looking at, or how to access
certain pieces of land, the difference between dn r BLM
National Forest permitting required to certain areas and certain trailheads.
And then furthermore, you know, let's say, for example, this
specific individual, he was cutting his teeth on Northwest blacktail hunting,
(08:36):
and although he didn't necessarily come to a blacktail specific camp,
we gave a backcountry one on one scouting class in
which we had about fifty sixty attendees on a zoom class,
and we talked all those things that I just mentioned,
(08:57):
and then we went specific in two different species, whether
be black bear, roosevelt elk, or high buck mule deer,
and even touched a little bit on the blacktail since
it's such a hot, popular thing to do in western Washington.
And he managed to pick up enough of that, all
(09:20):
those tidbits on that, and then we vetted through on
folks that were able to make the part two of
that event a few weeks after that, which was an
actual in the field.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
We took.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
The first go around half a dozen attendees into the
back country of North Peak Wilderness near Mount Rainier National
Park and they got to see firsthand all the things
that we talked about in a controlled classroom setting some
of the storytelling camp the night before, and then they
could actually see it. It was a tangible thing in
front of them, and they were able to take some
(09:56):
notes and asked questions. We had a couple of really,
really good, solid mentors that came in to help us out,
and then that individual went off tweaked on the skills
that he had learned, the knowledge that he had gained,
and the biggest reward for us, and you know, I'm
sure I'm speaking for a lot of fellow liaisons out
(10:18):
there is about two months later, we got a text
message that here he is with his first blacktail buck,
first buck ever, you know, and he attributed a lot
of that success to some of the things that we
taught him. And here he is now an active member
within AFI, and he's actually one of our active duty
(10:38):
guys and volunteering and looking to continue to grow his
skill sets.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Very cool. Yeah, And how did you get involved with AFI? Sean?
Speaker 5 (10:47):
So, I have been a member with BHA for probably
about seven years. It appealed to me just because of
public land, you know. And I moved around a lot
in the military. I lived in three of the four
corners of this country and just needed a public place
to hunt. And when I moved back out west after
living in New England and getting into these expansive places
(11:09):
that we were lucky enough to have out here, I
could see where the protections kind of needed to be
made and whatnot real quickly, and it just gravit. I
just gravitated to it. And so as time went on,
I retired from the service about five and a half
(11:30):
years ago.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And what branch were you in.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
I did twenty four years in the Navy. I was
a submarine torpedomen, which kind of saw me here, there
and everywhere. Not a lot of hunting and fishing on
a submarine, I'll tell you that, but it did finally
find me back in the Great Northwest, and having left
the military, I had a lot more time on my hands.
(11:56):
I started to get out and hunt and fish a
lot lot more because I wasn't deploying, I wasn't going
to see, not going on travel, and started to learn
a lot rEFInd the skills that I'd had over probably
two decades, you know, even though I did twenty four
or only about twenty of it. I was able to
(12:17):
get outside when I could, you know, over that span.
And I saw a turkey hunting one on one class
that the Armed Forces Initiative was putting on in Washington
with the National Wild Turkey Foundation. The president for NWTF
and Washington's also a Navy vet, and I said, huh,
that's kind of like mine. And I'm a pretty good
(12:38):
turkey hunter, but I could always you know, buff and
polish some skills, maybe get a hippin of information, who knows,
maybe meet somebody that's hunting the same area, you know,
little networking. And the presentation that NWTF was great, did
was great, and then THEFI presentation was spot on, you know,
(13:01):
it was it was marrying that public land advocacy and
importance with kind of that service above self that a
lot of us see in practice throughout the military. And
I'm seeing two things that I cared for deeply, you know,
just the military in general and then the outdoors. And
(13:22):
I said, well, this is perfect and I've got time.
I've got time. My kids were getting a little bit older,
we had a little bit more time around the home,
saw me at home a lot more, and I said,
you know, how do how do I get involved with this?
And so I started emailing and got in touch with Trevor,
I got in touch with Ryan and whatnot from BHA.
(13:44):
And next thing, you know, I said, well, how can
I help? Where do you need me? And a little
bit of Q and a figuring out who I was,
my background, and next thing, you know, yeah, I'm the
liaison for the State of Washington, you know, for AFI
and bridge that gap between our military community as well
as the State chapter of BHA and seeing how we
(14:07):
can mutually benefit from each other. And in turn, you know,
we're taking these military folks and turning them into a conservationists,
which is a pretty awesome thing when you get an
individual from a place like Oklahoma or Kansas that comes
up to the Northwest and next thing you know, now
he or she is in love with that, and that's
(14:27):
a huge thing to do.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And Dan, it sounds like from our talking earlier, that's
kind of how you're dipping your toe under the AFI
side of things.
Speaker 6 (14:36):
Absolutely right, yeah, absolutely, this event here is what kicked
me in the butt to finally get the membership done.
And I've actually known Sean for a lot of years now.
We serve together in the Navy, and I've been looking
for an organization to get involved with and I've done
some work with some other veterans groups here and there,
(15:01):
but I really wanted to find where I belong to
I guess make the most benefit in what organization was
actually doing things for veterans in the bigger picture of BHA,
what they're doing for public land access conservation, so that
like I'm looking at my family, I had two boys
and a wife that hunt, and I want to see
(15:21):
opportunity for them down the road. And so the fact
that BHA has the AFI side, I get to do
both and like I said, I'm just getting started, but
I definitely see a big future for myself getting involved.
Shawn's on the west side of Washington. I'm on the
east side, which some people might know almost like two
(15:44):
different states. But I'm looking to get involved and get
some stuff going on that side of the state.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
And I was just kind of making funny year earlier
because you're a submarine guy too, right, Yes, sir, do
you guys like sub mariner or is it submariner or
does anybody care?
Speaker 5 (16:01):
Well at this point, at this point, it's kind of
water under the bridge, but we'll go with submariner.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
You know you'll you'll hear some guys say submarriner, and
so am I not a good mariner?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
So yeah, submariner and they always affection it bubble head.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Yes, you can never go wrong with bubblehead.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Where what is bubblehead? Where does that come from?
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Well, we're kind of breathing in a big steel bubble,
you know, a few hundred feet out below the surface.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, but uh yeah, right, Like the jokes is like
it's no surprise as to why the outside means so
much to Damn because he spent twenty years in a
submarine and now he works inside a dam Yeah. Yeah,
it's like you're afraid of light kind of.
Speaker 6 (16:48):
I mean the damn I can at least go up
top and see the boats out fishing, just to you know,
hurt myself a little bit more at work.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
But but yeah, and a lot of similarities.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
That's pretty funny. That's pretty funny. So yeah, what do
we want to accomplish by working with AFI?
Speaker 6 (17:04):
So I moved to eastern Washington about three years ago.
I was I was a Western Washington guy, uh for
like about fifteen years, did my last like twelve years
up in Bangor Submarine base. And so I made a
lot of connections over on that side. A lot of people,
other active duty guys and veterans got me out into
the Northwest because I moved from Hawaii to the Northwest.
(17:27):
So that was pretty big change right there. And I'd
grown up in Nevada, so I had some experience with
like some of these big mountains and stuff. But you know,
the Northwest is a completely different animal than the Southwest.
And so those guys got me out, got me kicked
and going. And now that I moved to I made
(17:48):
all those connections over there and do you know social media,
it's really easy to keep track of people now. And
I moved to the East Side, and since moving there,
I made a lot of other connections to some veterans
organizations that are local, like to the Winatchi area, and
also to like people that have no involvement with veterans organizations,
(18:08):
were involved in the outdoors and they love to help
out vets and so you know, it's like that networking. Like,
so I got all these guys that I was talking
to Sean earlier. I'm like, I know all these people
on the East Side. I can make phone calls to
maybe get some things going, find some places we can
do stuff, and so I'm looking to bring that to
(18:29):
the table.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And then but you know, we talked a lot about
Washington politics, right the Washington Game Commission. What are you
hoping to get done by being a part of this
organization on the advocacy front, we'd call it.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
So one thing personally, like I have now I have
Trevor's phone number, and Trevor's a pretty smart guy that
can probably point you in the direction or point me
in the direction of some like better information. Better ways
to communicate better is to maybe even listen to the
political and business aspects side of what's going on, because
(19:06):
like it was kind of a thing in our camps.
I've always had the conversations like just because you scream
the loudest doesn't mean you get listened to. It's better
to have that two way conversation and learning, I guess
learning from these guys that have been kind of involved
in BHA in general on how to listen and how
to communicate to get the message to our representatives, and
(19:30):
also maybe two guys that don't want to listen to
stuff being able to talk to them more on a
one to one on like kind of our redneck level,
and because that's what it's going to take to make
effective change, I think absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
I couldn't agree more. I mean, not to hijack Dan here,
but you know, one of the big things for me
with that is getting that military community in front of
that commission and explaining to these commission members, you know,
even even if it's a letter, you know, a statement,
that this means something to me, this this loss of
(20:07):
this UH trail, this UH this species you know that's
doing well and I can't can't pursue it or this landscape.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Well, you had the spring bear hunting right. Oh yeah,
everybody was telling you you're going to drive this year.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
I was there. I was there, I had uh I
had Wanaha in my sights, and I had the magic
points to get it, and I was and I was
out of the Navy, and I had the vacation time
and uh yeah that that's no longer there. And it
was a it was a lot of miles, a lot
of scouting back and forth and helping other folks in
(20:43):
that area. And uh, I absolutely fell in love with
the Blue Mountains down in the southeast part of the state.
And they needed to hear that from me. You know this,
this is important to me. This is important. There's there's
guys out there and gals out there that they go
into these wild places and this is kind of what
they do. And if they don't have that, you know,
that's that's kind of a loss of an important thing
(21:05):
to a service member. And I think they need to
kind of.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Hear that from your guys' experience, What like, what is
the outdoors doing for veterans? We always hear of suicide
rates and and obviously all these organizations exist more than
likely for a reason. But from the folks sitting at
(21:30):
this table, like what what niche is that fulfilling? What
is getting done? Like, dude, are you aware of folks
who need help? And are these organizations helping?
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Yes, yes, and yes. So for example, I got to
see or didn't get to see, but there was a
tech received by one of our camp leaders a while back.
One of the attendees. You know, he showed up. He participated,
very jovial, very positive attitude, positive mental focus, was really
(22:14):
active throughout the whole thing. I wasn't there. I didn't
get to see that individual, never even met this person,
But I did get to read about about that camp
in the the after action report that that camp lead
submitted and sounded like it was a great event. Well
he he reached out after the fact and said, you know,
(22:37):
this is what I needed. I was in an extremely
dark place and this was probably going to be one
of the last times that I recreate in a place
like this, and to participate in something like this a
hunt and that camp leads it, Oh no, man, we
literally just taught you how to do X. You know,
you can you know whether it's a snow goose hunt
(22:58):
or a age grouse hunt like we just did, or
a white tail hunt down in North Carolina, or duck
hunt up in New England. You know, we could we
teach you how to do this. You know, you've got
the tools and the skills. Now he says, no, I
don't think you understand, you know. And he was in
such a dark place and so so lost that that
(23:20):
was going to be his last hunt. And all of
us liaisons found out about that, and I mean it
resonates with all of us me personally. The very first
AFI camp that I went to, it was awesome. You know,
it was a South Dakota pheasant hunt. Was lucky enough
(23:42):
to get selected to go. I'd already done a couple
of smaller events in Washington, and I really wanted to
see how things were done and kind of kind of
learned how to run my own event up there and
get the flavor. And there was there was an individual
there's a very similar case. And then after the fact,
we we found out that that dude really needed that
(24:03):
you know, not as deep dark as a place, but uh,
he he needed he needed that service connection. Again, because
a lot of us leave the military and we leave
the community.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Uh, and uh that.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
We were used to. We kind of lose that identity
and a lot of folks have trouble with that, you
know when you know he's living in the middle of
the country and he was stationed on the coast his
entire time.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
You know, so well that that's an interesting thing from
like the civilian perspective, right, It's like I feel like
b h A has always been like very welcoming of anybody,
you know, It's it's it's the big tent perspective, right,
like like if you want to be outside you know
where your crew, Oh absolutely, you want to you know,
(24:52):
you want to learn how to cook or you know
how to cook, and you can teach us something that's great,
all the all the thanks the skills, and so it
was a question of mine of like, well, this group
is already so welcoming, why is it a need to
have something like military specific And wouldn't it even be
(25:19):
better if we got these veterans in here just mixing
with this, you know, civilian population that has never been
in the military. So what is the need for that
continued military connection?
Speaker 5 (25:37):
I think if I plants that seed for growth into
that veteran or active duty to get into the big
tent with the civilian side of BHA. But what I
think it is, it's a bird of a bird of
a feather. You know, I speak Navy, I don't speak
army trever and I have a hard time talking military.
(25:58):
Help be us with Yeah, I've learned a lot over
the past year and a half. Though, there's a common
thread amongst the branches, and we're able to receive messages
better from each other. You know, we tend to we
tend to do a little bit of tough love, but
we don't promote promote it in the camps.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
We tend to.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Tend to be a little a lot more direct, you know,
and it's pretty well received there by our veteran community.
And then we go, hey, by the way, you're good
with this, Well, guess what. Here's your here's your Arkansas
state chapter, here's your Colorado state chapter. And you know,
it takes off from there, and.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
That's the end goal, right, Like a perfect event is
we take you out into the wild places of the
United States or Canada and we show you an amazing
time engaging with that environment, whether it's hunting, fishing, trapping,
whatever the case for that event. And the second part
of that is, you have such a good time that
(27:04):
you can't help but get engaged with conservation, right and
ideally want everybody to go be a BHA member, Go
engage with the local chapter. Go see wow, I really
had a great time on the Saint Croix River smallmouth fishing.
How is the Wisconsin and Minnesota BHA chapters helping protect
this watershed? And what can I do with my veteran
(27:25):
voice to help in that fight? Right, That's the natural progression,
and we've seen it pre AFI in BHA. Two of
BHA's founders were military members, right, so we've seen this.
In fact, that rendezvous last year, we had a large fundraiser,
fancy dinner. It's like six hundred dollars a plate or something.
Think on the silent auction for that dinner, we raised
(27:46):
eighty three thousand dollars and sixty two thousand of that
eighty three came from members of this military community. So
once you engage, then once you can teach our participants
how they can use their voice to continue serving their country,
like sky's the limit, they can become some of BHA's
best volunteers.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
And I think we've shown that AFI doing that is
there some built in training to become an advocate or
work on those communication skills that Dan was talking about.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Absolutely there is. It's once we get you through your
first event, what we're seeing is about ninety percent of
folks come back right because we have the action after
action review, like Sean says, But there's no break in
the communication. So once you attend event, you're on a
text chain like very simply just a text group with
all of the people that attend to that event. And
(28:40):
having run so many events, I think I'm on a
hundred of these text change now on my phone. But
people are always talking, right, Like so our Great Lakes
group from from the Boundary Waters trip two years ago
are continuing like, hey, did this legislation get passed? Great,
what's the next step? How do we stop this next
mining proposal?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Right?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
And then they feed into their the Soda chapter and
really make that happen. Like that's where we see this
growth is BHA already has such well, it's developed programs
for training people and how to become a conservation of
how to become a habitat steward or a policy advocate.
Right that all AFI really needs to do is just
(29:20):
help walk them through that BHA door and all the
tools are there. Does that make sense I answer your question?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think you know. The thing
that I was getting at is, as we've talked about
a bunch in the in the past, is like the
there's a lot of places people can go for a party,
and is that what AFI is providing is is just
another another party for for the veterans, right, And it's like,
(29:49):
what is the thing that's going to carry this through
and and that is developing those skills where you can
be an effective advocate. No right, for these resources, making
sure they're around for dance kids. Sure, making sure that
they're around for these guys that are getting out of
you know, twenty year careers where they really weren't afforded
(30:10):
a whole lot of time to get out and do stuff.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Absolutely. I mean that's all of our camps are dry
camps just because we were here to do a job.
We're here to focus. I don't want people sleeping in
and missing part of the camp that so many volunteers
worked for you to put on. And I don't want
to put any pressure on people, especially with the trend
of dependency in the military community. But This isn't let's
(30:36):
go hang out in a wall tent and drink beers
and maybe somebody shoots an elk. This is let me
teach you how to go do this over and over
again for the rest of your life. And by doing that,
what w ends up happening is we create a highly passionate,
highly engaged cadre of AFI BHA members that cannot help
but go get involved like Sean was in Sean justin
(30:58):
the entire Washington crew we have has just been that
you've played them on your podcast before, Like they come
out and you teach them, Like you just give a
guy a hammer and all of a sudden he's out
trying to build a house. They're just so passionate this.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
These guys after it.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
They're killing it. You know, it was really heartwarming to
see these guys. Next thing, you know, they're they're interfacing
with other state chapter members. Heck, I think one of
them went on a fishing trip with one, you know,
and I didn't talk about fishing up and Brewster. But
my guy now can talk about fishing up and Brewster.
Why some of that access in the issues that the
(31:30):
fish that go into there are so important that's that's
pretty heartwarming.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
That's a win absolutely. I mean that's the goal. So
if you want the trip of a lifetime, if you
want somebody to take you walleye fishing or salmon fishing
or whatever, we're probably not the group for you. If
you want to learn how to go develop these skills
and then ideally be able to get to a point
where you can teach those skills to others and just
be involved in the conservation conversation, right like whether that
(31:56):
passion lies and policy like we're seeing in Washington, or
whether like Colorado where they're just they put one hundred
and twenty Army combat engineers on a fence pole project
because that's one guy came. He's like, Hey, I serve
in a company of activity combat engineers. We can get
this done a lot faster. Let's go do this right.
So they're engaged in stewardship and habitat improvement. And then
you have folks like North Carolina where our goal down there,
(32:20):
not our goal, but the participants down there, they're hole
into Wow, this deer hunting, turkey hunting made such an
impact on me. How do I share this with more
members of the military community. So they're very are three focused,
and I don't necessarily care which one you focus on.
I just want you, as a veteran, you, as a
member of this military community, to feel empowered like you
(32:40):
have the tools, the capability and the training to go
continue to serve your country, because that's what I think
we all need internally, That's what my need is. That's
why I'm here. Is oh something bigger.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
I agree. You know, you do four years, you do
twenty four years. You have a sense of service about you.
That's just, you know, it's just part of who you are.
It's beat into you by military service. And you get out.
Some folks get lost with it, you know. And I
think this is an excellent opportunity for engagement of those
(33:12):
folks and in some ways help transition into civilian life
and be better than productive members of Sicilian civilian life.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
It's a reconnection from the disconnection. Oh that's a good
way to put it.
Speaker 6 (33:26):
Because someone like Sean was alluding to a lot of
guys the time and service the job identifies them and
or or you know, I say guys, but guys and gals,
and when they leave, some people have a really hard
time finding the new identity and this is a good
(33:46):
way to kind of mix both and find your happy
place after that four years, twenty years, thirty years, whatever
it is.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
And Nan, you said that you'd gotten in touch with
some other veterans groups, Uh, some sort when you first
got back to Washington.
Speaker 6 (34:06):
Uh, not when I first gotten It's more towards my
retirement time in Washington, when I started kind of like, hey,
I'm actually gonna have time to maybe go out and
do some stuff. And and because like for me, it
was like work and then family is really outdoorsy, and
then and then trying to get like given back time.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
So so you're kind of like trying to network with
some of these groups to uh just kind of find
some more recreational opportunities a little bit.
Speaker 6 (34:34):
Uh No, not for myself. It was well, when I
initially got to Washington, it was just learning the area.
Then there were there were no outdoor veteran groups back
in like two thousand and six that if they if
they were there, I don't even know about them. You know,
it was really before like social media and anything like that.
So it was all just like literally I was in
(34:55):
the smoke pit with a guy on Friday and he's like, Hey,
I'm gonna go deer hunting to and I'm like, man,
I'd love to go to your i'n't have done that
in like twelve years. And he's like, well, you want
to go? And that was like my first Washington hunting trip.
And that later that night we're in a minivan going
in by mountaineer in the dark, almost hidden elk and
(35:16):
freezing our butts off intent and that's when I'm like, wow,
I have no gear. That's for Washington and uh but
it was ethic because that guy took me out and
he was another active duty guy. So the Metroans organizations
now out there are are connecting us and in like
an organized manner, which what military guys we like organization, right,
(35:38):
And uh so it it's a lot easier to find
something and for I guess groups to find you too,
uh nowadays than.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
It used to be. So I hope that answer is
what you're asking there.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Oh, yeah, that that's that's good. I think you know this,
uh topics not a new one. We talk about it
pretty consistently and certainly lots of other people do too,
and I you know, I think that there's still a
lot of people out there looking for their community. And
(36:13):
so the more we can talk about how you guys
found a community, that's there's gonna be some touch points
out there for other people that go, oh yeah, yeah,
I can see reaching out because of that, even though
I don't need to for all these other reasons. Yeah yeah,
but I love a new hunting spot. You know.
Speaker 6 (36:33):
It's like a lot of things, like I guess, like
we talk and focus kind of like young guys, guys
just retiring to that. But I've like I've taken guys
fishing on my boat that were like Vietnam vets that
they just got involved with somebody and they were so
happy to like be with another serviceman, even though like
they're all going to be my grandpa.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
You know. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
So it it's it's it's a big opportunity to touch
a lot of people and the right way.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
But it's, uh, the folks, folks that do this professionally
v a professional psychiatrist. They've been trying to describe the
bond that the soldiers, sale, sailors, airman, marine get for
you know, hundreds of years since warfare has existed, because
it's always something super strange, uh, to people because it's not.
We call it brotherhood, but it's not the same. I
(37:21):
got't treat my brother the same way that I treat
you guys, and we didn't even serve together, correct, right,
But it's it's some like weird mix between like closer
than a brother, but not quite a wife like. It's
some part. I call it the trauma bond. Is the
is the new zeitgeist word or whatever the catchy phrase,
but it's uh. The best way that I can put
(37:42):
it is when I was in the Army, there was
a guy in our unit, and everybody in the unit
was this way with this exact example. He had pneumonia,
so he missed a training Rock march. Totally allowed to
miss the march. Man like medics said, you're sick. You're
sick every night in the barracks. While sick, he put
it rock on and walked around the barracks building because
he was confined to barracks until he made up all
(38:04):
twelve miles of that march. Because he didn't want anybody
else in that unit to think he was lacking, because
he didn't want to be the one the weak link
in the chain. And I know when I look at
you guys that you have that same inside piece to
you like all the AFI members do. And it's you
walk into an AFI event and you can immediately feel
like you can trust that guy. Yeah, he can trust you,
(38:26):
you can trust you whatever.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
There's a silent bond very quick after that initial conversation.
It's interesting, it is, it is, it really is.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
So yeah, best way to get involved.
Speaker 5 (38:38):
Well, for the state of Washington, we got one heck
of a social media presence going. You can find us
on Instagram, you can find us on Facebook. Feel free
to email me WAAFI at backhuntry Hunters dot org. We
look at the website, go to the BHA website and
you can find the Armforce initiative there and there's points
(39:02):
of contact right there.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
No Armed Forces Initiative, all spelled out at Backcountry Hunters
dot org. Every one of our emails gets answered in
the field about two hundred days a year, so it
doesn't get answered fast, but I promise you it will
get answered. We just brought on administrative assistant, so things
are speeding up. But please reach out. Reach out if
you're interested, reach out if you know somebody who's interested.
(39:26):
Worst case, reach out if you can help us. We're
always looking for mentors, photographers, cooks, like even if you
don't want to hunt at all, but you're like, man,
I don't mind slinging some burgers for some guys. We'd
love to help.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
And speaking of help, if there is one branch of
the military that would need help spelling initiative, if they
were to write in, what would it be, I'll let
you ever go first.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Yeah, yeah, that would be the Marine Corps. Okay, I
mean I'm not great at spelling either, but Army Infantry,
Marine Corps, Infantry where we're cut from the same cloth.
The We did have cow saw it at a BHA event.
We had these flyers printed out and Garrett, who was
one of our members of our board, Marine Corps, highly
(40:10):
educated guy, misspelled conservation in about size seventy two font
on the front page of the trifold. And the problem
it's not on him because he sent it to me.
He sent it to a couple other members of the board,
like some officers, some senior n CEOs that are like,
they'll catch it. But in our minds we're like, yeah,
Garret used to work at the Pentagon. Of course he's
gonna nail this. Like I don't need you this, so
we all messed it up. But the letters are in
(40:33):
the wrong order, but the message is the same.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
Man, he's really driving marines on that one.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Yeah, I mean I was only asking because I listened
to you guys give each other crap all.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Week, so that's how it goes.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (40:44):
If not giving each other crap, that's when you need
to be scared.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
Right, I got to disagree with whichever marines are Department
of the Navy, and we're pretty darn smart, So it's
the army they need the most help. That's where there's
only four letters in their name.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
That's fair.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
And then yeah, I guess just to wrap up the thing,
like so if even if you're not a member of
b h A or b h A A F I
if would it be appropriate for folks to just write
in ask questions or even if they had a something
going on that they wanted folks to tackle, I e.
Like you know, an issue, an access issue, at legislative issue,
(41:22):
something like that. Still cool to write in and chat
you guys up.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Oh absolutely, Well that's what we're here for.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Greed.
Speaker 5 (41:30):
Yes, that just makes all of it better.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
No, awesome, that's all I've got for you this week.
Thank you so much for listening. Remember to write in
to ask c A L. That's ask Cal at the
Meat Eater dot com. And remember, get yourself a clean,
quiet steel chainsaw. They'll save your butt at least once
a year. And then you know you can help clean
(41:54):
up the yard and do things that make you look
good around the house too, and you'll look like a pro.
Because it says steal, type into the Google machine www
dot steel Dealers dot com. Find a local, knowledgeable steel
dealer near you. They're gonna get you set up with
what you need. They won't try to send you home
with what you don't. Thanks again, I'll talk to you
next week.
Host
Cal Callaghan
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.