November 14, 2024 • 35 mins
Continuing our culture theme, I revisit past podcast conversations that explore how to foster positive research environments and cultures. We hear from people such as Elizabeth Adams, Tanita Casci, Jolanta Burke, Janet Reed, Alex Taylor, Kia Hook, and Lindsay Oades, who share their experiences and insights on creating a sense of belonging and collegiality within academic settings. Their stories emphasize recognizing individual strengths, promoting transparency, celebrating achievements, and the importance of supportive management practices for bringing out the best in people. Hopefully you will take away practical ideas and inspiration, and recognise the importance of both micro-actions and collective efforts in creating supportive, transparent, and inclusive cultures.
00:00 Intro
00:29 Episode introduction - fostering good cultures
03:48 Glasgow Uni's Research Culture Awards
07:51 Jolanta Burke on positive organisations
09:53 Janet Read on flexibility and supporting people with young families
11:47 Janet Read on know your team
12:32 Janet Read on bringing out the best in people
16:14 Alex Taylor on the power of the collective
22:25 Kia Höök on Fika
25:50 Lindsay Oades on autonomy, rationales and leeting people they are valued
29:58 Wrapping up
33:18 Outro
34:05 Repeating what Lindsay said
Related Links
Past episodes used in this curated episode:
Tanita Casci and Elizabeth Adams on supporting, rewarding and celebrating a positive collegial research culture (from May 2021)
Jolanta Burke on burnout, harmonious passion, positive workplaces & helping others (from Nov 2017)
Janet Read on charm bracelets, finish tape & the work to be a complete academic (from May 2018)
Alex Taylor on research at the boundaries, moving from industry to academia, the labour of academia & the power of the collective (from July 2019)
Kia Höök on challenges of success & value of slowing down and re-connecting (from Feb 2017)
Lindsay Oades on academic wellbeing, connecting to strengths, meaning and purpose, and not taking the system too seriously (from Sept 2018)
And others you can search for on Changing Academic Life who also talk about culture (among many others): Sarah Davies (part 2), Mark Reed, Karen Stroobants, Elizabeth Churchill.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Geri (00:05):
Welcome to Changing Academic Life.
I'm Geraldine Fitzpatrick and this isa podcast series where academics and
others share their stories, provideideas and provoke discussions about what
we can do individually and collectivelyto change academic life for the better.
(00:29):
What are the everyday sorts of activitiesand interactions that we can have in our
workplaces and in our research groups.
That contribute to creating greatresearch environments in which people
can really do great work together.
In this episode, we'll continueon this theme of research
(00:50):
environments and research culture.
And we'll do this by revisiting somesnippets of past podcast conversations
from way back in the archive where peoplehave shared what they've been doing to
foster a sense of belonging and to createcollegial, supportive research cultures.
(01:11):
Hearing these diverse voicesand different approaches might
provide some food for thought.
And of course you can always go backand listen to the full conversations
with the people that I've included here.
And I'll include links to their episodeson the webpage for this episode.
And at the end I will alsopoint to yet more conversations
(01:33):
that I haven't included.
That also talk about cultureif you were looking for more.
Across the snippets.
I think you'll recognize a lot ofthe themes that Nina from the Danish
young academy identified acrosstheir research environment proposals.
(01:53):
And so we'll hear things likethe importance of recognizing
everyone as an individual.
And that can just be their own individualpreferences and styles of working.
It can be recognizing the particularstrengths that they bring, recognizing
their particular life circumstancesand how they can be supported in that.
(02:16):
We'll also hear about being veryexplicit about rewarding and celebrating
both effort and achievements.
We'll hear about creating situations.
In which people can gather and meet andtalk and just connect in different ways.
Well, so I hear about the importanceof transparency and clarity
(02:39):
around roles and expectations.
And also being realistic aboutwhat you can offer to people.
And all of these sorts of thingsgo towards fostering a sense
of collegiality and community.
And creating environments wherepeople really do feel seen, heard.
(02:59):
Valued and respected.
All really key aspects forcreating a sense of belonging.
And that sense of belonging is also a keyunderpinning for what we talked about last
episode, in terms of psychological safety.
So the first extract I'd like toreplay is from a 2021 conversation
(03:22):
with Elizabeth Adams and TanitaCasci from Glasgow university.
At Glasgow university, they had alsoimplemented an awards program to
celebrate good research cultures.
And so they'll talk aboutthat program a little bit.
And also I've collated some where theytalked about including collegiality
(03:43):
as a criteria for promotion.
Elizabeth (03:48):
So we introduced the Research Culture Awards.
maybe two years ago.
We're on our third iteration now.
And the purpose of the awards wasreally to showcase and highlight good
practice or things that people weredoing a little bit differently to try
to bring about a positive researchculture to run mentoring programs or
early career researcher networks, orI think, supporting people to think
(04:11):
about open research or just new waysof doing research that's maybe a little
bit progressive and something that otherpeople can learn from and to celebrate.
I think the important thing for me isthat the awards aren't just sitting there
on their own, because I think if theywere just out there on their own it would
feel quite tokenistic, like that we oncea year we celebrate the four things that
(04:31):
people have done of being nice to eachother, which, and it's not about that at
all That's one strand of a bigger plan.
So the fact that we've introducedcollegiality into our professorial
promotions criteria is really, reallyimportant in sending the message
that this is important in all ways.
And the awards is just one wayof highlighting good practice,
but also it's expected.
(04:52):
that you will be collegiate in yourteaching and in your research and your
knowledge exchange and all the differentthings that you do and that you'll support
others um and that by doing so um researchis going to be better for everyone.
Tanita (05:05):
We try as much as possible to convey the idea that culture,
as Elizabeth has said, is thevehicle to better research.
It's not being nice to each other.
We, you know, I hope we are.
It's actually integral.
to the process of developing good qualityresearch that stands the test of time,
(05:28):
that actually, you know, pushes theboundaries of knowledge, improves society,
and creates a welcoming environment inwhich talented staff will be attracted
to, uh, and can develop within.
And we, we think very muchabout the academic output being
publications, societal impact.
But I would add to that, the peoplewe develop, the skills that we
(05:49):
put out into the world, the nextgeneration of academics that we
develop, that needs to be a crucialpillar of the academic endeavor.
And so we should be asking everyrelevant, important opportunity,
how an academic has supportedthe careers of those around them.
And if someone hasn't taken theopportunity to give that back and to
(06:10):
create that sense of community andcamaraderie and, you know, that peer
group that supports each other andwhat good quality research is, Then
they're missing an important part ofessentially what I think should be there,
a fundamental aspect of their role.
Geri (06:27):
And isn't that a lovely challenge to us all.
To think about what are theparticular ways that we can give
back to contribute to creating thatsense of community and comraderie.
To supporting one another.
And that if we're not doing that, We'remissing a really fundamental aspect of the
academic endeavor, because as Tanita saysat the end, It's the people we develop.
(06:53):
That's a crucial pillar of that endeavorfor the benefit of good science.
Tanita also made the comment about,it's not just about being nice to
one another for its own sake that itactually is what enables good science.
And this theme is also picked up on,in a conversation with Jolanta Burke.
(07:15):
Who was a positive psychologist and shewas working at university of east London
when we recorded this interview in 2017.
And in this snippet, she'sreflecting on this whole notion
of positive organizations.
And she also talksabout the importance of.
I guess what being nice enables in termsof bringing out the best in ourselves
(07:39):
and bringing out the best in oneanother and working to our strengths.
A theme that we'll also hear towardsthe end, in one of the final snippets.
Jolanta (07:51):
So I think positive organizations to me are organizations
that understand the importance of.
Working on people's strengths, oncreating an environment that has a nice
balance of, you know, creating positiveemotions, but also negative emotions.
They are really important in manysituations, but understanding this rather
(08:15):
than being, limited in your views andmaybe focus on one theory or another.
I think that's what's important andwe definitely need to come out, go out
to organizations with that message.
And unfortunately, the positive inpositive psychology sometimes is
stopping us from doing it because themanagers, leaders would straight away,
say, you know what we don't need.
(08:35):
We know that positivity is niceand happiness and well being,
but this is not what it is about.
And it is not about happiness.
Positive organization isabout high performance.
It's about getting the bestout of people and for people to
get the best out of each other.
Geri (08:52):
So getting the best out of people and for people to get the best out of each
other, that we can do that for each other.
So this leads nicely to the next snippet.
I want to share with you here.
Which provides some practicalexamples for creating those
(09:12):
positive cultures of care, I guess.
And this is from a conversationthat I recorded with Janet Reed.
Who's a professor in childcomputer interaction at the
university of central Lancashire.
We've recorded this back in2018, actually sitting in an
airport if I remember correctly.
(09:33):
So in this first part, Janet shareshow important it is to understand the
situation that people in, for example,people with young families and how to
really support them in having a goodhome life, as well as a good work life.
Janet (09:53):
and we have these conversations in our group.
Which is nice, that's why groups are good.
Most of my group have got youngfamilies, so, I appreciate they want
to go home and do sports day, theywant to pick the kids up three days
a week, or whatever, and, Whateversituation they find themselves in.
Um, I've now got younggrandchildren, sometimes I'm
called upon to look after them.
Sometimes I just want to goand have coffee with one of my
(10:15):
daughters, and I think that'snice, you can do those things.
So, when my two younger oneswere little, The older ones were
old enough to notice things.
And they once said to me, Mum,when you're working at home, the
children, the children, I mean thiswas the nine year old, you know,
talking about the four year old.
The children don't know ifyou're being a mum or not.
Geri (10:37):
Oh, goodness.
Janet (10:39):
That was very perceptive.
And I've taken this to my team and I'vesaid to my young team, who are young
families, who've got young families,I'll say to them, guys, if you're
going to work at home, don't workat home when you're being a parent.
You know, it's not fair on your youngchildren to do this, because my
children told me this and, they'llsay I'm working at home because they
(10:59):
think it's convenient to work at homewhile they're looking after the kids.
Dream on, you're looking after thekids, you're not working at home.
And so I think that's an interestingconversation I think if you've got
a An understanding manager, they willunderstand that if you are working
at home for seven hours and you've gotyoung children at home for seven hours,
you're probably doing two hours worthof work, and there's only a certain type
of work you can do in that environment.
Geri (11:22):
I love the respect and understanding that this shows in recognizing the
situations that other people are in and.
Just having that honest conversationabout what your expectations are and
that it's okay to put family first.
Janet talks later on about alsogetting to know people and the
(11:42):
ways in which they're different.
So a short snippet on that from Janet.
Janet (11:47):
Other people can never work to deadline.
You know, I have PhD students who neverworked in, you know, they, they wanna
have everything ready six days before.
And I found that bizarre, Ithink, what's wrong with you?
But you have to also understand thatthe people around you, and, and one of
the things about teamwork, you know,in our team, you have to understand
each other's team practices, and youhave to understand how your colleagues,
Geri (12:10):
how you're going to negotiate those different preferences together, and how
Janet (12:12):
they want to work
Geri (12:15):
Janet also had some lovely things to say about how to be a manager who
can help bring out the best in people.
And she starts on this topicby reflecting on watching her
daughter in a management role.
Janet (12:32):
So one of my daughters is a manager in a retail company.
She manages the team andshe is such a good manager.
And I never understoodmanagement until I watched her.
Watched her, as in not standing there, butwatched her as a human doing management.
And that's active person management, andshe gets the best out of those people.
And I think to myself, why have I nothad the luxury of that kind of management?
(12:56):
And that's a bit rubbish.
Even her recruitment processes.
Really robust.
Yeah.
Or appraisal processes arereally robust and in university
you don't get any of that.
It's just kind of all a bit ad hoc.
Yeah.
Yes.
You'd have thought the least youwould do is try and not manage as
in manage, but it's the fact thatit's, it's the encouragement, the
(13:19):
understanding individual needs.
It's those key things.
You encourage, you understand theneeds, you motivate, you say, well done.
Yes, you say well done.
You say well done.
Wouldn't it be nice to geta well done sometimes, Sam?
Oh, well done, Janet.
You know, the other day I actuallyemailed my boss and I said, Hey, I've
had a great day, by the way, today.
Two papers accepted, onefunded bid submitted on a roll.
Oh, yay.
He did actually e mail back andsay, great, that was nice, you know.
(13:42):
But, you want a little bit ofencouragement from time to time, you know.
Indeed, yeah.
What we have, we have this finish tape,you know, for Children's Sports Days.
You know, on the run, theyrun across the finish line.
So I bought this finish tape.
And anyone who finishes something thatthey've really been struggling with,
they can come to me and get a finishtape and we tape it across our doors.
. And then we had certificates.
We've got, like, certificatesof rosettes and things.
(14:03):
We have, like, rosettes for great work.
That's funny.
I just think they're so, so important.
But universities don't do this, do they?
. . Geri: And do universities don't often do this, do they?
But what, what are universities here?
I mean, universitiesreally are ultimately us.
(14:24):
They're the people.
And I think what Janet haspointed to so powerfully.
Is how important justthese little things are.
So she says, just to repeat what she said.
It's those key things.
You encourage, you understand theneeds you motivate, you say, well done.
(14:46):
Wouldn't it be nice toget a well done sometimes.
And so it's just these really little micromoments of connection and encouragement.
That can make all thedifference to people.
And I love the example of using afinish tape that they hang up when
they've overcome something thatthey've been struggling with, or
(15:09):
little moments of celebrations.
And.
And gestures and ritualslike their certificates.
Small actions that can have a big impact.
That all contribute to building thisculture of collegiality and support.
(15:29):
So I want to move on to thenext conversation snippet.
And this is with Alex Taylor.
Who's a reader in the center forhuman computer interaction design
at city, university of London.
And we recorded thisin his office in 2019.
Alex particularly talks aboutthe power of the collective.
(15:52):
And he talks about that ina variety of different ways
throughout the conversation.
And here, I just pick up on someparts in which he talks about bringing
people together, just through thingslike creating meeting groups or the
reading groups or the different typesof meetings that they might have.
Again just creating those opportunitiesfor people to gather and talk and share.
Alex (16:14):
and of course, you know, important, particularly important to me were the
early career researchers, and that, as yousay, they feel totally vulnerable because
they don't have the position to say no.
In fact, their careers depend onsaying yes, and I just want to
create the opportunities for themto come here or to work in place.
(16:36):
You know, my, my only advice in it.
Impoverished advice is to say,find the right people that will
support you, that won't subjectyou to those sorts of pressures.
And that allow you to flourish.
But of course, that's,that's a non trivial thing.
recommendation.
Geri (16:56):
But we can all be part of creating those spaces.
Yeah.
Just thinking back, um, from thebeginning of this sort of university
position to now, and you talkedabout learning, not that you don't
have to be good at everything.
And so what would be some of thesort of key other lessons that you've.
learned
(17:16):
? Alex: I've said this a few times, but I, I don't think there's any easy answers.
And I think this sense of havingpeople with you, um, and creating an
environment in which everyone can be thebest that they can be, not the worst.
(17:38):
Not the worst and I think, again,that sounds incredibly grand, but
I think it gets done in small ways.
Um, and, you know, we've really,within the centre, enlivened these
senses of meetings, not just formeetings sake, but for spaces in
which we allow thinking to flourish.
(17:59):
So how do you do that practically?
Alex (18:02):
So I think it is about getting the right people to set the groundwork
for these spaces of, of thinking.
So in our writing group, we'vejust hired a new, lecturers, Sarah
Heitlinger, who, has, has been doingsome great sort of feminist inspired
work and she's really trying to setin place, uh, a turn to the writing
(18:26):
group, much like Ali Black spoke about.
, I have a reading group and it's about,you know, I'm designing that reading group
to think both about obviously contentthat's relevant to our students, our
PhD students and postdocs, et cetera,but also that starts to introduce, um,
these layers of thinking and criticality.
(18:47):
And so, as we startedoff saying earlier on.
These modes of being critical arenot somehow in parallel to what we
do, they're part of, they furnishour intellectual capacities.
And so it's, it's lettingthose things live together.
Um, Simone Stumpf, one ofour other senior lecturers,
(19:09):
is running a research group.
And, you know, everyone has a voice.
Everyone has the capacity to bring work.
Um, and I think it's just great.
And these things, ofcourse, all take time.
Well,
Geri (19:24):
I was just going to ask, how do you get people together?
Alex (19:27):
Yeah, not everyone comes.
I think you have to kind of work fromwhere people are able to make these.
And, so in my own readinggroup, I don't enforce it.
And different weeks, wehave different people.
And that's why, in a way, I think it'sabout giving a sense of the environment
(19:54):
we're in and what we're open to.
Geri (19:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So would these groups happeneach of them every week or
is there some sort of rhythm?
Alex (20:04):
My reading group's every other week.
Yeah.
the writing group is every week.
It's a two hour block.
Mm.
Mm.
You bring something, um, and we kind oftalk about through what, what we're doing.
I think we're thinking also ofhaving writing retreats where, you
know, there's a different emphasis.
Um, the research group is once aweek, we have a once a week seminar.
(20:28):
And again, you know, each of these thingson their own could, could be trivial.
But collectively, who you ask to comeand talk in a seminar series, who you
read, what you write about together,um, all those things start to add up.
Yeah.
, And set.
these conditions for whatwe're in business about.
Geri (20:52):
I can see lots of ways that these would be really useful in creating
spaces for people just to connect.
Yeah.
For learning from each other,from being supported, helping
the intellectual endeavor.
I mean, there's just
Alex (21:08):
To make that possible for people and to, for, especially for those who
are new to an academic environment.
life to realize that thereare places like that.
Um.
Geri (21:21):
And they're all very collective.
You know, everyone's gotsomething to contribute.
Absolutely.
And conveying that message.
Yeah, I
Alex (21:27):
really am, you know, I'm thrilled to be part of a, a center
and an organization that, wants it.
that wills people to have a voice.
Geri (21:39):
So some lovely examples there of creating the spaces in
which people can come together.
And I love that emphasis onenabling people to have a voice.
The next one is a shortexample from Kia Hook.
Kia is a professor in interactiondesign at KTH in Stockholm, Sweden.
(22:03):
And we've recorded this in person in 2017.
And Kia, will talk about a particularpractice that they have in Sweden
that you may well have heard of.
Called Fika.
And she will explain this and,and their different sort of
approach in how they encouragepeople to come together for Fika.
Kia (22:25):
Oh yeah, yeah.
We had a very, very strong culture,very much like you come to the seminars
and we had, you know, the Swedish fika.
So, uh, it's coffee, coffee breaks.
So we had one enforced fika every week onWednesdays where everybody had to come.
Geri (22:44):
and
Kia (22:45):
drink coffee and sit around and socialize.
We call it the enforced socializing.
And it's so funny because Iwould walk through the center.
This is an open office landscape.
I would walk through the centerand say, okay, now it's three
o'clock and it's Wednesday.
It's enforced socializing.
You come now.
And people were, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I just need to, you know.
(23:05):
And then they would come, and then Icouldn't make them leave, because they
were all like, blub, blub, blub, blub, youknow, talking about their research, uh,
and so these things are super important.
So we did that, we did joint trips,we would hold full day meetings at
a partner location, we would hold ameeting at Ericsson or, or Nokia or
whatever, you know, so we really workedhard on, uh, making this one center
Geri (23:33):
So again, another example of very deliberately creating the spaces and
opportunities for people to get together.
And, and it also reflects quitea different approach to what we
heard Alex talk about in terms ofencouraging and making people attend.
And so I come to the final snippetthat I want to replay here.
(23:56):
And that's from a conversationwith Lindsay Oades.
Lindsey is a professor at the universityof Melbourne and director of the
center for positive psychology there.
And this is a conversation that wehad in 2018, when we were both at
the positive psychology conference.
(24:19):
What Lindsay starts offreflecting on is the importance
of autonomy for many academics.
But also the parallel importanceof helping create clarity through
providing rationale for people.
It's that finding that balancebetween letting people be totally
free to run off and do what they want.
(24:40):
Versus micromanaging.
And so that sort of a clarityof roles and expectations and
transparency is really important.
And he also goes on to talk about,people not being dumb and that
people really want to feel valued.
(25:02):
And that it's important that we tellpeople what we value about them.
And to help them recognize whattheir own strengths are and to help
them be able to shape their ownwork with the term job crafting.
Now, during this conversation, this reallyinteresting part of the conversation.
Unfortunately, we did have aproblem with Lindsay's microphone.
(25:25):
It fell down a bit and neitherof us saw it early enough.
So see how you go understandingwhat he says in his own words.
And if you can't understand it,stay to the end of the podcast.
And I will repeat verbatim whathe said there so that you don't
miss out on his lovely insights.
(25:45):
So this is Lindsay.
Lindsay (25:50):
The academics also, they love autonomy and, but
they also love a rationale.
So, self determination theory, forexample, will tell us, give people
autonomy but also give them a rationalefor what, so autonomy doesn't mean
anything goes, it means, like, forexample, we got, we got some big research
income targets we got to hit, um, that'san external thing, we got to hit it,
(26:13):
it's expected, um, so it's, here's ourchallenge, we got to hit this, we got
to hit this research income target,you That's not really that negotiable.
We've got to get these we've got to getin this zone with this level of staff
This is what's expected How do we doit and then let the smart people do it
(26:35):
don't come in and tell them and thatthey've got to have micromanaged bits
and pieces And some of them the whingethey'll say but it at it But there's a
rationale for why they've got to do itand where, how they'll usually find a
way, um, because they're not dumb people.
Geri (26:54):
So this, this points to you as a leader or a director of center needing
very good people skills and beingprepared to take the time and having your
patience that you talked about earlier
And in part of responding to this,he talks about a strategy document.
They have that helps peoplesee where they fit in.
And this is also where the audioquality starts to deteriorate a little
(27:18):
bit more, as I said, see how you go.
Lindsay (27:20):
And I've really been pushing the strategy document so
that people can see where theyfit in where we're trying to go.
Um, and that takes time.
It does.
It actually takes a lot of time.
Geri (27:34):
I'm always interested in turning our research back on ourselves.
So if you think about what you would sayto workplaces, if you're doing well being
in the workplace consultancy externally,And then you turn the lens back into
your own centre or academia generally.
What are the things that we'renot doing well or you're not doing
well or whatever that we wouldbe telling other people to do?
Lindsay (28:00):
It sounds really trite, but the evidence bears it out.
Fundamentally, people atwork often feel undervalued.
In general or by their immediate boss.
Geri (28:14):
Yeah.
Lindsay (28:15):
So simple things about what do you actually value about your staff?
And have you told them and inwhat medium have you told them?
So that, that's probably number one.
Yeah.
And number two would be thestuff we've been talking about
too before about strengths.
Have you actually hadconversations with staff Oh.
(28:37):
About their role in the jobdescription and how it can be crafted
so they can use their strengthsmore than they currently are.
And that might take time as well.
It's not, because there areorganizational constraints that, you
know, you've got to deliver this orwe've got to get this class taught or
we've got to generate this income orwe've got to get that contract done.
(28:58):
So right this moment,we might not be able to.
get you exactly fully there but at leasthaving a conversation so there's a plan
of how it's going to migrate there um andthat those conversations are important
because again with academics if there's arationale and there's been a conversation
(29:19):
they'll probably accept it for a whileyes if there's a good intent yes yeah
um so there's a couple of things herethat's just that that that Enabling
them to feel valued and then enablingthem to use this strengths and mold
their work, or job craft their work.
Geri (29:41):
And so I love that, I love that valuing because that talks about that
issue that you mentioned earlier about notgetting any local validation and, but that
we can still do that as managers as withanyone that we work with, whether you're
the director of a center or project team,or even just a colleague, we could do
that colleague to colleague, couldn't we?
And now this is me back in real time.
(30:03):
I really loved those two simplethings that he talked about.
One is, what do you actually value aboutthe people that you're working with?
And have you told them.
Have you told them.
And the second one was having theconversations that are about their
(30:24):
strengths and how you can helppeople shape their work, to better
fit their strengths, where they'regoing to do a much better job.
And it's also a way of bringingout the best in people that
connects to what Janet said and,and what others have talked about.
So I hope these snippets from differentpeople over the years might give some
(30:49):
food for thought about just different waysthat you might contribute to creating the
sort of environments that you want to see.
Recognizing that we allhave a part to play.
We can all make a difference.
And they don't need to be grand gestures.
They can just be little everyday things.
(31:11):
Uh, small actions canhave a really big impact.
And go a long way towardscreating cultures that are
collegial and supportive.
And then enable us todo great work together.
And the snippets that I presentedhere from way back in the archive.
(31:32):
And so if you're interested in the sceneto more conversations, Uh, that also pick
up on notions of culture and creatinggreat work environments in different ways.
I can recommend a couple of others thatyou might put on your listening list.
So Sarah Davies in part twoof my conversation with her.
(31:52):
Sarah talked a lot about creatingcultures of care and things like setting
expectations, as well as acknowledgingthe work, especially the sort of
invisible work that people do thatgo to contributing to great cultures.
Mark Reed in the conversation withhim, he talked about building a
(32:13):
compassionate culture and thentalked about what that meant.
Karen Stroobants in my conversationwith her talked about culture.
More generally.
And in particular about howwe need change of culture.
As a key part of how we shiftthe emphasis on just having, for
example, high impact journal.
Papers as the only output that we value.
(32:37):
And that we need to change that.
And Elizabeth Churchill.
Also talked about what they weredoing at Google when she worked
there towards creating more inclusivecultures and in particular, she
focused on building a team culture.
So there are some other pointers thatyou may want to go back and listen to.
(33:01):
And gather more ideas.
And I invite you just toleave this thinking about.
What might be one or two small actionsthat you can do right now, right today.
That contributes to creatingthe culture that you want.
(33:21):
You can find the summary notes,a transcript, and related
links for this podcast on www.
changingacademiclife.
com.
You can also subscribe toChanging Academic Life on iTunes,
Spotify, and Google Podcasts.
And I'm really hoping that we canwiden the conversation about how
we can do academia differently.
(33:42):
And you can contribute to this by ratingthe podcast and also giving feedback.
And if something connected with you,please consider sharing this podcast
with your colleagues together.
We can make change happen.
(34:05):
As promised, I'm going to read out whatI could transcribe from what Lindsay
said when we had that microphone drop.
So you may remember that he'd beentalking about just letting smart people
get on and do it and you don't have totell them they have to have micromanaged
parts that'll usually find a way.
So he continues saying, You have to dothis both individually and as a group.
(34:27):
And I've been trying to push this strategydocument so people can see where they fit.
into it and where we want to go.
And that takes time.
I raised some question then aboutturning the lens back onto academia.
And he says, it sounds really trite,but the evidence bears it out.
Fundamentally, people at workoften feel undervalued in general
(34:48):
or by their immediate boss.
So simple things about what doyou actually value about your
staff and have you told them?
And in what medium have you told them?
So that's number one.
And number two would be the stuff wetalked about before about strengths.
Have you actually had conversationswith staff about their role, and the
job description, and how it can becrafted, so that they can use their
(35:11):
strengths more than they currently are?
And that might take time as well,because there are organizational
constraints, that you have to deliverthis, or get this class taught, or
we've got to generate that income, orwe've got to get that contract done.
So, while at this moment we can't getyou exactly fully there, at least we
have that conversation, so there's aplan of how it's going to migrate there.
(35:34):
And those conversations are reallyimportant, because again with academics,
if there is a rationale and there has beena conversation, they'll probably accept
it for a while if there's good intent.
So there's a couple of things there,enabling them to feel valued, and
enabling them to use their strengthsand mould their work, job craft
their work from a strength space.
Welcome to Changing Academic Life.
I'm Geraldine Fitzpatrick and this isa podcast series where academics and
others share their stories, provideideas and provoke discussions about what
we can do individually and collectivelyto change academic life for the better.
(00:29):
What are the everyday sorts of activitiesand interactions that we can have in our
workplaces and in our research groups.
That contribute to creating greatresearch environments in which people
can really do great work together.
In this episode, we'll continueon this theme of research
(00:50):
environments and research culture.
And we'll do this by revisiting somesnippets of past podcast conversations
from way back in the archive where peoplehave shared what they've been doing to
foster a sense of belonging and to createcollegial, supportive research cultures.
(01:11):
Hearing these diverse voicesand different approaches might
provide some food for thought.
And of course you can always go backand listen to the full conversations
with the people that I've included here.
And I'll include links to their episodeson the webpage for this episode.
And at the end I will alsopoint to yet more conversations
(01:33):
that I haven't included.
That also talk about cultureif you were looking for more.
Across the snippets.
I think you'll recognize a lot ofthe themes that Nina from the Danish
young academy identified acrosstheir research environment proposals.
(01:53):
And so we'll hear things likethe importance of recognizing
everyone as an individual.
And that can just be their own individualpreferences and styles of working.
It can be recognizing the particularstrengths that they bring, recognizing
their particular life circumstancesand how they can be supported in that.
(02:16):
We'll also hear about being veryexplicit about rewarding and celebrating
both effort and achievements.
We'll hear about creating situations.
In which people can gather and meet andtalk and just connect in different ways.
Well, so I hear about the importanceof transparency and clarity
(02:39):
around roles and expectations.
And also being realistic aboutwhat you can offer to people.
And all of these sorts of thingsgo towards fostering a sense
of collegiality and community.
And creating environments wherepeople really do feel seen, heard.
(02:59):
Valued and respected.
All really key aspects forcreating a sense of belonging.
And that sense of belonging is also a keyunderpinning for what we talked about last
episode, in terms of psychological safety.
So the first extract I'd like toreplay is from a 2021 conversation
(03:22):
with Elizabeth Adams and TanitaCasci from Glasgow university.
At Glasgow university, they had alsoimplemented an awards program to
celebrate good research cultures.
And so they'll talk aboutthat program a little bit.
And also I've collated some where theytalked about including collegiality
(03:43):
as a criteria for promotion.
Elizabeth (03:48):
So we introduced the Research Culture Awards.
maybe two years ago.
We're on our third iteration now.
And the purpose of the awards wasreally to showcase and highlight good
practice or things that people weredoing a little bit differently to try
to bring about a positive researchculture to run mentoring programs or
early career researcher networks, orI think, supporting people to think
(04:11):
about open research or just new waysof doing research that's maybe a little
bit progressive and something that otherpeople can learn from and to celebrate.
I think the important thing for me isthat the awards aren't just sitting there
on their own, because I think if theywere just out there on their own it would
feel quite tokenistic, like that we oncea year we celebrate the four things that
(04:31):
people have done of being nice to eachother, which, and it's not about that at
all That's one strand of a bigger plan.
So the fact that we've introducedcollegiality into our professorial
promotions criteria is really, reallyimportant in sending the message
that this is important in all ways.
And the awards is just one wayof highlighting good practice,
but also it's expected.
(04:52):
that you will be collegiate in yourteaching and in your research and your
knowledge exchange and all the differentthings that you do and that you'll support
others um and that by doing so um researchis going to be better for everyone.
Tanita (05:05):
We try as much as possible to convey the idea that culture,
as Elizabeth has said, is thevehicle to better research.
It's not being nice to each other.
We, you know, I hope we are.
It's actually integral.
to the process of developing good qualityresearch that stands the test of time,
(05:28):
that actually, you know, pushes theboundaries of knowledge, improves society,
and creates a welcoming environment inwhich talented staff will be attracted
to, uh, and can develop within.
And we, we think very muchabout the academic output being
publications, societal impact.
But I would add to that, the peoplewe develop, the skills that we
(05:49):
put out into the world, the nextgeneration of academics that we
develop, that needs to be a crucialpillar of the academic endeavor.
And so we should be asking everyrelevant, important opportunity,
how an academic has supportedthe careers of those around them.
And if someone hasn't taken theopportunity to give that back and to
(06:10):
create that sense of community andcamaraderie and, you know, that peer
group that supports each other andwhat good quality research is, Then
they're missing an important part ofessentially what I think should be there,
a fundamental aspect of their role.
Geri (06:27):
And isn't that a lovely challenge to us all.
To think about what are theparticular ways that we can give
back to contribute to creating thatsense of community and comraderie.
To supporting one another.
And that if we're not doing that, We'remissing a really fundamental aspect of the
academic endeavor, because as Tanita saysat the end, It's the people we develop.
(06:53):
That's a crucial pillar of that endeavorfor the benefit of good science.
Tanita also made the comment about,it's not just about being nice to
one another for its own sake that itactually is what enables good science.
And this theme is also picked up on,in a conversation with Jolanta Burke.
(07:15):
Who was a positive psychologist and shewas working at university of east London
when we recorded this interview in 2017.
And in this snippet, she'sreflecting on this whole notion
of positive organizations.
And she also talksabout the importance of.
I guess what being nice enables in termsof bringing out the best in ourselves
(07:39):
and bringing out the best in oneanother and working to our strengths.
A theme that we'll also hear towardsthe end, in one of the final snippets.
Jolanta (07:51):
So I think positive organizations to me are organizations
that understand the importance of.
Working on people's strengths, oncreating an environment that has a nice
balance of, you know, creating positiveemotions, but also negative emotions.
They are really important in manysituations, but understanding this rather
(08:15):
than being, limited in your views andmaybe focus on one theory or another.
I think that's what's important andwe definitely need to come out, go out
to organizations with that message.
And unfortunately, the positive inpositive psychology sometimes is
stopping us from doing it because themanagers, leaders would straight away,
say, you know what we don't need.
(08:35):
We know that positivity is niceand happiness and well being,
but this is not what it is about.
And it is not about happiness.
Positive organization isabout high performance.
It's about getting the bestout of people and for people to
get the best out of each other.
Geri (08:52):
So getting the best out of people and for people to get the best out of each
other, that we can do that for each other.
So this leads nicely to the next snippet.
I want to share with you here.
Which provides some practicalexamples for creating those
(09:12):
positive cultures of care, I guess.
And this is from a conversationthat I recorded with Janet Reed.
Who's a professor in childcomputer interaction at the
university of central Lancashire.
We've recorded this back in2018, actually sitting in an
airport if I remember correctly.
(09:33):
So in this first part, Janet shareshow important it is to understand the
situation that people in, for example,people with young families and how to
really support them in having a goodhome life, as well as a good work life.
Janet (09:53):
and we have these conversations in our group.
Which is nice, that's why groups are good.
Most of my group have got youngfamilies, so, I appreciate they want
to go home and do sports day, theywant to pick the kids up three days
a week, or whatever, and, Whateversituation they find themselves in.
Um, I've now got younggrandchildren, sometimes I'm
called upon to look after them.
Sometimes I just want to goand have coffee with one of my
(10:15):
daughters, and I think that'snice, you can do those things.
So, when my two younger oneswere little, The older ones were
old enough to notice things.
And they once said to me, Mum,when you're working at home, the
children, the children, I mean thiswas the nine year old, you know,
talking about the four year old.
The children don't know ifyou're being a mum or not.
Geri (10:37):
Oh, goodness.
Janet (10:39):
That was very perceptive.
And I've taken this to my team and I'vesaid to my young team, who are young
families, who've got young families,I'll say to them, guys, if you're
going to work at home, don't workat home when you're being a parent.
You know, it's not fair on your youngchildren to do this, because my
children told me this and, they'llsay I'm working at home because they
(10:59):
think it's convenient to work at homewhile they're looking after the kids.
Dream on, you're looking after thekids, you're not working at home.
And so I think that's an interestingconversation I think if you've got
a An understanding manager, they willunderstand that if you are working
at home for seven hours and you've gotyoung children at home for seven hours,
you're probably doing two hours worthof work, and there's only a certain type
of work you can do in that environment.
Geri (11:22):
I love the respect and understanding that this shows in recognizing the
situations that other people are in and.
Just having that honest conversationabout what your expectations are and
that it's okay to put family first.
Janet talks later on about alsogetting to know people and the
(11:42):
ways in which they're different.
So a short snippet on that from Janet.
Janet (11:47):
Other people can never work to deadline.
You know, I have PhD students who neverworked in, you know, they, they wanna
have everything ready six days before.
And I found that bizarre, Ithink, what's wrong with you?
But you have to also understand thatthe people around you, and, and one of
the things about teamwork, you know,in our team, you have to understand
each other's team practices, and youhave to understand how your colleagues,
Geri (12:10):
how you're going to negotiate those different preferences together, and how
Janet (12:12):
they want to work
Geri (12:15):
Janet also had some lovely things to say about how to be a manager who
can help bring out the best in people.
And she starts on this topicby reflecting on watching her
daughter in a management role.
Janet (12:32):
So one of my daughters is a manager in a retail company.
She manages the team andshe is such a good manager.
And I never understoodmanagement until I watched her.
Watched her, as in not standing there, butwatched her as a human doing management.
And that's active person management, andshe gets the best out of those people.
And I think to myself, why have I nothad the luxury of that kind of management?
(12:56):
And that's a bit rubbish.
Even her recruitment processes.
Really robust.
Yeah.
Or appraisal processes arereally robust and in university
you don't get any of that.
It's just kind of all a bit ad hoc.
Yeah.
Yes.
You'd have thought the least youwould do is try and not manage as
in manage, but it's the fact thatit's, it's the encouragement, the
(13:19):
understanding individual needs.
It's those key things.
You encourage, you understand theneeds, you motivate, you say, well done.
Yes, you say well done.
You say well done.
Wouldn't it be nice to geta well done sometimes, Sam?
Oh, well done, Janet.
You know, the other day I actuallyemailed my boss and I said, Hey, I've
had a great day, by the way, today.
Two papers accepted, onefunded bid submitted on a roll.
Oh, yay.
He did actually e mail back andsay, great, that was nice, you know.
(13:42):
But, you want a little bit ofencouragement from time to time, you know.
Indeed, yeah.
What we have, we have this finish tape,you know, for Children's Sports Days.
You know, on the run, theyrun across the finish line.
So I bought this finish tape.
And anyone who finishes something thatthey've really been struggling with,
they can come to me and get a finishtape and we tape it across our doors.
. And then we had certificates.
We've got, like, certificatesof rosettes and things.
(14:03):
We have, like, rosettes for great work.
That's funny.
I just think they're so, so important.
But universities don't do this, do they?
. . Geri: And do universities don't often do this, do they?
But what, what are universities here?
I mean, universitiesreally are ultimately us.
(14:24):
They're the people.
And I think what Janet haspointed to so powerfully.
Is how important justthese little things are.
So she says, just to repeat what she said.
It's those key things.
You encourage, you understand theneeds you motivate, you say, well done.
(14:46):
Wouldn't it be nice toget a well done sometimes.
And so it's just these really little micromoments of connection and encouragement.
That can make all thedifference to people.
And I love the example of using afinish tape that they hang up when
they've overcome something thatthey've been struggling with, or
(15:09):
little moments of celebrations.
And.
And gestures and ritualslike their certificates.
Small actions that can have a big impact.
That all contribute to building thisculture of collegiality and support.
(15:29):
So I want to move on to thenext conversation snippet.
And this is with Alex Taylor.
Who's a reader in the center forhuman computer interaction design
at city, university of London.
And we recorded thisin his office in 2019.
Alex particularly talks aboutthe power of the collective.
(15:52):
And he talks about that ina variety of different ways
throughout the conversation.
And here, I just pick up on someparts in which he talks about bringing
people together, just through thingslike creating meeting groups or the
reading groups or the different typesof meetings that they might have.
Again just creating those opportunitiesfor people to gather and talk and share.
Alex (16:14):
and of course, you know, important, particularly important to me were the
early career researchers, and that, as yousay, they feel totally vulnerable because
they don't have the position to say no.
In fact, their careers depend onsaying yes, and I just want to
create the opportunities for themto come here or to work in place.
(16:36):
You know, my, my only advice in it.
Impoverished advice is to say,find the right people that will
support you, that won't subjectyou to those sorts of pressures.
And that allow you to flourish.
But of course, that's,that's a non trivial thing.
recommendation.
Geri (16:56):
But we can all be part of creating those spaces.
Yeah.
Just thinking back, um, from thebeginning of this sort of university
position to now, and you talkedabout learning, not that you don't
have to be good at everything.
And so what would be some of thesort of key other lessons that you've.
learned
(17:16):
? Alex: I've said this a few times, but I, I don't think there's any easy answers.
And I think this sense of havingpeople with you, um, and creating an
environment in which everyone can be thebest that they can be, not the worst.
(17:38):
Not the worst and I think, again,that sounds incredibly grand, but
I think it gets done in small ways.
Um, and, you know, we've really,within the centre, enlivened these
senses of meetings, not just formeetings sake, but for spaces in
which we allow thinking to flourish.
(17:59):
So how do you do that practically?
Alex (18:02):
So I think it is about getting the right people to set the groundwork
for these spaces of, of thinking.
So in our writing group, we'vejust hired a new, lecturers, Sarah
Heitlinger, who, has, has been doingsome great sort of feminist inspired
work and she's really trying to setin place, uh, a turn to the writing
(18:26):
group, much like Ali Black spoke about.
, I have a reading group and it's about,you know, I'm designing that reading group
to think both about obviously contentthat's relevant to our students, our
PhD students and postdocs, et cetera,but also that starts to introduce, um,
these layers of thinking and criticality.
(18:47):
And so, as we startedoff saying earlier on.
These modes of being critical arenot somehow in parallel to what we
do, they're part of, they furnishour intellectual capacities.
And so it's, it's lettingthose things live together.
Um, Simone Stumpf, one ofour other senior lecturers,
(19:09):
is running a research group.
And, you know, everyone has a voice.
Everyone has the capacity to bring work.
Um, and I think it's just great.
And these things, ofcourse, all take time.
Well,
Geri (19:24):
I was just going to ask, how do you get people together?
Alex (19:27):
Yeah, not everyone comes.
I think you have to kind of work fromwhere people are able to make these.
And, so in my own readinggroup, I don't enforce it.
And different weeks, wehave different people.
And that's why, in a way, I think it'sabout giving a sense of the environment
(19:54):
we're in and what we're open to.
Geri (19:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So would these groups happeneach of them every week or
is there some sort of rhythm?
Alex (20:04):
My reading group's every other week.
Yeah.
the writing group is every week.
It's a two hour block.
Mm.
Mm.
You bring something, um, and we kind oftalk about through what, what we're doing.
I think we're thinking also ofhaving writing retreats where, you
know, there's a different emphasis.
Um, the research group is once aweek, we have a once a week seminar.
(20:28):
And again, you know, each of these thingson their own could, could be trivial.
But collectively, who you ask to comeand talk in a seminar series, who you
read, what you write about together,um, all those things start to add up.
Yeah.
, And set.
these conditions for whatwe're in business about.
Geri (20:52):
I can see lots of ways that these would be really useful in creating
spaces for people just to connect.
Yeah.
For learning from each other,from being supported, helping
the intellectual endeavor.
I mean, there's just
Alex (21:08):
To make that possible for people and to, for, especially for those who
are new to an academic environment.
life to realize that thereare places like that.
Um.
Geri (21:21):
And they're all very collective.
You know, everyone's gotsomething to contribute.
Absolutely.
And conveying that message.
Yeah, I
Alex (21:27):
really am, you know, I'm thrilled to be part of a, a center
and an organization that, wants it.
that wills people to have a voice.
Geri (21:39):
So some lovely examples there of creating the spaces in
which people can come together.
And I love that emphasis onenabling people to have a voice.
The next one is a shortexample from Kia Hook.
Kia is a professor in interactiondesign at KTH in Stockholm, Sweden.
(22:03):
And we've recorded this in person in 2017.
And Kia, will talk about a particularpractice that they have in Sweden
that you may well have heard of.
Called Fika.
And she will explain this and,and their different sort of
approach in how they encouragepeople to come together for Fika.
Kia (22:25):
Oh yeah, yeah.
We had a very, very strong culture,very much like you come to the seminars
and we had, you know, the Swedish fika.
So, uh, it's coffee, coffee breaks.
So we had one enforced fika every week onWednesdays where everybody had to come.
Geri (22:44):
and
Kia (22:45):
drink coffee and sit around and socialize.
We call it the enforced socializing.
And it's so funny because Iwould walk through the center.
This is an open office landscape.
I would walk through the centerand say, okay, now it's three
o'clock and it's Wednesday.
It's enforced socializing.
You come now.
And people were, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I just need to, you know.
(23:05):
And then they would come, and then Icouldn't make them leave, because they
were all like, blub, blub, blub, blub, youknow, talking about their research, uh,
and so these things are super important.
So we did that, we did joint trips,we would hold full day meetings at
a partner location, we would hold ameeting at Ericsson or, or Nokia or
whatever, you know, so we really workedhard on, uh, making this one center
Geri (23:33):
So again, another example of very deliberately creating the spaces and
opportunities for people to get together.
And, and it also reflects quitea different approach to what we
heard Alex talk about in terms ofencouraging and making people attend.
And so I come to the final snippetthat I want to replay here.
(23:56):
And that's from a conversationwith Lindsay Oades.
Lindsey is a professor at the universityof Melbourne and director of the
center for positive psychology there.
And this is a conversation that wehad in 2018, when we were both at
the positive psychology conference.
(24:19):
What Lindsay starts offreflecting on is the importance
of autonomy for many academics.
But also the parallel importanceof helping create clarity through
providing rationale for people.
It's that finding that balancebetween letting people be totally
free to run off and do what they want.
(24:40):
Versus micromanaging.
And so that sort of a clarityof roles and expectations and
transparency is really important.
And he also goes on to talk about,people not being dumb and that
people really want to feel valued.
(25:02):
And that it's important that we tellpeople what we value about them.
And to help them recognize whattheir own strengths are and to help
them be able to shape their ownwork with the term job crafting.
Now, during this conversation, this reallyinteresting part of the conversation.
Unfortunately, we did have aproblem with Lindsay's microphone.
(25:25):
It fell down a bit and neitherof us saw it early enough.
So see how you go understandingwhat he says in his own words.
And if you can't understand it,stay to the end of the podcast.
And I will repeat verbatim whathe said there so that you don't
miss out on his lovely insights.
(25:45):
So this is Lindsay.
Lindsay (25:50):
The academics also, they love autonomy and, but
they also love a rationale.
So, self determination theory, forexample, will tell us, give people
autonomy but also give them a rationalefor what, so autonomy doesn't mean
anything goes, it means, like, forexample, we got, we got some big research
income targets we got to hit, um, that'san external thing, we got to hit it,
(26:13):
it's expected, um, so it's, here's ourchallenge, we got to hit this, we got
to hit this research income target,you That's not really that negotiable.
We've got to get these we've got to getin this zone with this level of staff
This is what's expected How do we doit and then let the smart people do it
(26:35):
don't come in and tell them and thatthey've got to have micromanaged bits
and pieces And some of them the whingethey'll say but it at it But there's a
rationale for why they've got to do itand where, how they'll usually find a
way, um, because they're not dumb people.
Geri (26:54):
So this, this points to you as a leader or a director of center needing
very good people skills and beingprepared to take the time and having your
patience that you talked about earlier
And in part of responding to this,he talks about a strategy document.
They have that helps peoplesee where they fit in.
And this is also where the audioquality starts to deteriorate a little
(27:18):
bit more, as I said, see how you go.
Lindsay (27:20):
And I've really been pushing the strategy document so
that people can see where theyfit in where we're trying to go.
Um, and that takes time.
It does.
It actually takes a lot of time.
Geri (27:34):
I'm always interested in turning our research back on ourselves.
So if you think about what you would sayto workplaces, if you're doing well being
in the workplace consultancy externally,And then you turn the lens back into
your own centre or academia generally.
What are the things that we'renot doing well or you're not doing
well or whatever that we wouldbe telling other people to do?
Lindsay (28:00):
It sounds really trite, but the evidence bears it out.
Fundamentally, people atwork often feel undervalued.
In general or by their immediate boss.
Geri (28:14):
Yeah.
Lindsay (28:15):
So simple things about what do you actually value about your staff?
And have you told them and inwhat medium have you told them?
So that, that's probably number one.
Yeah.
And number two would be thestuff we've been talking about
too before about strengths.
Have you actually hadconversations with staff Oh.
(28:37):
About their role in the jobdescription and how it can be crafted
so they can use their strengthsmore than they currently are.
And that might take time as well.
It's not, because there areorganizational constraints that, you
know, you've got to deliver this orwe've got to get this class taught or
we've got to generate this income orwe've got to get that contract done.
(28:58):
So right this moment,we might not be able to.
get you exactly fully there but at leasthaving a conversation so there's a plan
of how it's going to migrate there um andthat those conversations are important
because again with academics if there's arationale and there's been a conversation
(29:19):
they'll probably accept it for a whileyes if there's a good intent yes yeah
um so there's a couple of things herethat's just that that that Enabling
them to feel valued and then enablingthem to use this strengths and mold
their work, or job craft their work.
Geri (29:41):
And so I love that, I love that valuing because that talks about that
issue that you mentioned earlier about notgetting any local validation and, but that
we can still do that as managers as withanyone that we work with, whether you're
the director of a center or project team,or even just a colleague, we could do
that colleague to colleague, couldn't we?
And now this is me back in real time.
(30:03):
I really loved those two simplethings that he talked about.
One is, what do you actually value aboutthe people that you're working with?
And have you told them.
Have you told them.
And the second one was having theconversations that are about their
(30:24):
strengths and how you can helppeople shape their work, to better
fit their strengths, where they'regoing to do a much better job.
And it's also a way of bringingout the best in people that
connects to what Janet said and,and what others have talked about.
So I hope these snippets from differentpeople over the years might give some
(30:49):
food for thought about just different waysthat you might contribute to creating the
sort of environments that you want to see.
Recognizing that we allhave a part to play.
We can all make a difference.
And they don't need to be grand gestures.
They can just be little everyday things.
(31:11):
Uh, small actions canhave a really big impact.
And go a long way towardscreating cultures that are
collegial and supportive.
And then enable us todo great work together.
And the snippets that I presentedhere from way back in the archive.
(31:32):
And so if you're interested in the sceneto more conversations, Uh, that also pick
up on notions of culture and creatinggreat work environments in different ways.
I can recommend a couple of others thatyou might put on your listening list.
So Sarah Davies in part twoof my conversation with her.
(31:52):
Sarah talked a lot about creatingcultures of care and things like setting
expectations, as well as acknowledgingthe work, especially the sort of
invisible work that people do thatgo to contributing to great cultures.
Mark Reed in the conversation withhim, he talked about building a
(32:13):
compassionate culture and thentalked about what that meant.
Karen Stroobants in my conversationwith her talked about culture.
More generally.
And in particular about howwe need change of culture.
As a key part of how we shiftthe emphasis on just having, for
example, high impact journal.
Papers as the only output that we value.
(32:37):
And that we need to change that.
And Elizabeth Churchill.
Also talked about what they weredoing at Google when she worked
there towards creating more inclusivecultures and in particular, she
focused on building a team culture.
So there are some other pointers thatyou may want to go back and listen to.
(33:01):
And gather more ideas.
And I invite you just toleave this thinking about.
What might be one or two small actionsthat you can do right now, right today.
That contributes to creatingthe culture that you want.
(33:21):
You can find the summary notes,a transcript, and related
links for this podcast on www.
changingacademiclife.
com.
You can also subscribe toChanging Academic Life on iTunes,
Spotify, and Google Podcasts.
And I'm really hoping that we canwiden the conversation about how
we can do academia differently.
(33:42):
And you can contribute to this by ratingthe podcast and also giving feedback.
And if something connected with you,please consider sharing this podcast
with your colleagues together.
We can make change happen.
(34:05):
As promised, I'm going to read out whatI could transcribe from what Lindsay
said when we had that microphone drop.
So you may remember that he'd beentalking about just letting smart people
get on and do it and you don't have totell them they have to have micromanaged
parts that'll usually find a way.
So he continues saying, You have to dothis both individually and as a group.
(34:27):
And I've been trying to push this strategydocument so people can see where they fit.
into it and where we want to go.
And that takes time.
I raised some question then aboutturning the lens back onto academia.
And he says, it sounds really trite,but the evidence bears it out.
Fundamentally, people at workoften feel undervalued in general
(34:48):
or by their immediate boss.
So simple things about what doyou actually value about your
staff and have you told them?
And in what medium have you told them?
So that's number one.
And number two would be the stuff wetalked about before about strengths.
Have you actually had conversationswith staff about their role, and the
job description, and how it can becrafted, so that they can use their
(35:11):
strengths more than they currently are?
And that might take time as well,because there are organizational
constraints, that you have to deliverthis, or get this class taught, or
we've got to generate that income, orwe've got to get that contract done.
So, while at this moment we can't getyou exactly fully there, at least we
have that conversation, so there's aplan of how it's going to migrate there.
(35:34):
And those conversations are reallyimportant, because again with academics,
if there is a rationale and there has beena conversation, they'll probably accept
it for a while if there's good intent.
So there's a couple of things there,enabling them to feel valued, and
enabling them to use their strengthsand mould their work, job craft
their work from a strength space.
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